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Speaker 4: But I'm acting like it. So what's up.

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Speaker 3: This is softw REP Radio and welcome to your first

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Speaker 3: episode or video. If this is the first time you're

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Speaker 3: tuning in, if you've listened and you're a veteran.

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Speaker 4: Of SOFTWAREP Radio, welcome back.

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Speaker 3: You know who I am, and you know how this

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Speaker 3: is about to go, and you probably know who my

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Speaker 3: guest is already. But first, before I introduce you to

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Speaker 3: my guest, say it with me. The merch store soft

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Speaker 3: You might want to get a little something for yourself.

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Speaker 3: Spoil yourself, go ahead and spoil me, spoil someone else

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Speaker 3: is our book club and that soft rep dot Com

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Speaker 3: Forward slash Book hyphen Club. So it's the gem for

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Speaker 3: your brain reading a book. Knowledge is power. You hear

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Speaker 3: it all the time. We can't stress it enough around here.

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Speaker 3: We have so many folks that come on the show

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Speaker 3: that write books, that read books. It's just so powerful

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Speaker 3: to hear their message. So please go read a book

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Speaker 3: and check out the softwarep dot Com Forward slash Book

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Speaker 3: hyphen Club where it's curated for viewers like you, from

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Speaker 3: people like Brandon Webb and in the special operations community. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So the book that I would like to probably hopefully

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Speaker 3: try to get into the book club if my guest

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Speaker 3: will work with us Anthony Vincey, who is written his book,

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Speaker 3: let me just read this to you correctly. He is

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Speaker 3: the author of the book The Fourth Intelligence Revolution, The

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Speaker 3: Future of Espionage and the Battle to Save America. He

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Speaker 3: served as the first Chief Technology Officer and Associate Director

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Speaker 3: for Capabilities at the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency.

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Speaker 4: Also known as an MGA. Earlier in his career.

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Speaker 3: He served as an intelligence officer in Iraq, Africa, and Asia.

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Speaker 3: After leaving the world of intelligence, Anthony became an executive

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Speaker 3: at a private equity firm. Is now the CEO of Vico,

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Speaker 3: an AI company, which is what is AI staff wor

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Speaker 3: again automated interface, but it's actually artficial intelligence.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I forget that, dude, I forget I'm living in

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Speaker 3: AI days.

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Speaker 4: He has a company.

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Speaker 3: It's a democratized democratizing intelligence analysis and super empowering analysts.

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Speaker 3: Anthony is also an Adjective Senior Fellow at the Center

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Speaker 3: for a New American Security. He received his PhD in

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Speaker 3: International relations from the London School of Economics. I want

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Speaker 3: to welcome you to the show, not butcher your bio,

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Speaker 3: but it's nice to have you here.

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Speaker 5: Thanks for having me man, super excited.

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Speaker 3: So intelligence you were Is that army or was that

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Speaker 3: a military branch that you were in with this intelligence?

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Speaker 5: Well, I was a civilian intelligence officer. I was with

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Speaker 5: DA and I was I was a case officer. So

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Speaker 5: that's somebody who.

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Speaker 1: Goes out in the field and recruit spies and them

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Speaker 1: to provide information.

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Speaker 3: So did you like go from I want to be

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Speaker 3: on the baseball team to a spy, to the civilian

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Speaker 3: spy sector. I, you know, I.

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Speaker 1: Like a lot of a lot of other guys, was

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Speaker 1: of a generation where nine eleven happened when I was young,

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Speaker 1: and as soon as that happened, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: want to get in a game. My dad was a marine,

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Speaker 1: my brother is a marine. I just sort of assumed

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Speaker 1: that I would be serving. And I realize that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the intelligence world was the right one for me. I'd

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Speaker 1: already lived abroad, you know, I knew what it was like.

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Speaker 1: You know, like, this is this is how to get

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Speaker 1: in that game, and this was important for the country

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Speaker 1: at that time.

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Speaker 4: That's amazing.

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Speaker 3: So did you just like google how to apply to

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Speaker 3: this DA?

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Speaker 4: Is that what you said? Or CIA? What was the

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Speaker 4: acronym you threw out.

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Speaker 5: There, DA Defense Intelligence?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, okay, yeah.

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Speaker 5: That's literally the way you do. I mean, that's what

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Speaker 5: most people do. You just sort of google and you're like,

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Speaker 5: how do I go do this job.

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Speaker 1: I talked to some friends as well who were kind

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Speaker 1: of knew a little bit about that world, and they

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Speaker 1: sort of pointed in different directions and were like, here's

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Speaker 1: here's the place, and you literally put your application in online.

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Speaker 1: How old, oh man, I was in my mid twenties. Wow, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it was probably twenty seven when I applied.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's crazy, that's that's incredible. It's like, you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean, hey, I believe it. You speak other languages

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 1: At the time, I spoke a little bit of Arabic.

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Speaker 1: It's it's completely gone.

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Speaker 4: It's oh I see, I see, I see. That's what

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Speaker 4: they all say.

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Speaker 3: That's what they all say now in Hillah, yeah yeah,

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Speaker 3: in Sila, yeah, awesome, Mama lakam you see it's okay. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 3: I love that. And so you know, Chukrin see here,

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Speaker 3: it's good, it's good. I just have questions, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean for you dude and my listeners like

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Speaker 3: Rad ask him questions, bro.

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Speaker 4: Crack the egg? You know? How do we crack the

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Speaker 4: egg and scramble this? So? As a DA.

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Speaker 5: Operative, Yeah, intelligence officer.

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Speaker 4: Are you looking for? I mean, are you literally like?

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm thinking of like the Saint with Val Kilmer,

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Speaker 3: where he was like I am Saint so and so

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Speaker 3: and he's like, you know, different load outs, different faces,

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Speaker 3: mission impossible, you know, you know, is that.

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Speaker 4: Something that worth I'm thinking about you like I would.

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Speaker 5: I like to think about it like this.

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Speaker 1: You want to know what's going on in you know,

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Speaker 1: southern Afghanistan or Iraq or China. And you know we're Americans,

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Speaker 1: we we grew up here. We probably don't know that

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Speaker 1: many people there. How are you going to get that information?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 1: And you to get that is you want to get

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Speaker 1: a local guy. Yeah, you want to get somebody who's

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Speaker 1: got that placement and access.

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Speaker 5: He lives there, he knows people.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you know, back during the kind of global war

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Speaker 1: on terrorism day, maybe this guy you know had friends

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Speaker 1: who were involved with with with terrorist groups someone like that,

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Speaker 1: or maybe he works at a government agency that you

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Speaker 1: want to get information from.

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Speaker 5: You got to go get one of those guys.

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Speaker 1: You're not going to walk in yourself, right, And so

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Speaker 1: what you do is you learn how to find those

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Speaker 1: people and recruit them to come work for you.

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Speaker 5: You know, you're essentially convincing them to commit treason you know,

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Speaker 5: on their own, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like you got to get human intelligence. So

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Speaker 3: humid is what you're going after there by somebody human

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Speaker 3: intelligence and there's like oh sit, there's like you know,

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Speaker 3: open sourced intelligence where you can find all the information

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Speaker 3: about somebody online and they're like, how did you know

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Speaker 3: all this about me?

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Speaker 4: It's like, well, you wrote a daily journal every day.

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Speaker 3: I knew you were going to be on vacation for

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Speaker 3: eight days because you post it every single day.

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Speaker 1: Some people say about human it's the it's the int

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Speaker 1: or the intelligence of last resort. So you know, first

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Speaker 1: maybe yeah, you try to look it up online, some

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Speaker 1: open source intelligence. Maybe you use signals intelligence, you know,

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Speaker 1: and or geo intelligence like you you use imagery.

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Speaker 5: Maybe from satellite.

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Speaker 1: But if you really can't find it any other way,

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Speaker 1: the only way to get in that room or to

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Speaker 1: get that piece of information is to get another human

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Speaker 1: being to do it.

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Speaker 5: Then that that's where somebody like me came in.

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Speaker 3: Okay, now let's flash backwards to World War Two.

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Speaker 4: Okay, you have people inside of our.

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Speaker 3: Own you know, allies that are like not they sympathize

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Speaker 3: with what Hitler is doing in World War Two, and

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Speaker 3: they're like, oh, it's no big deal.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's not affecting us.

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Speaker 3: And you got people inside try to like you know,

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Speaker 3: thwart any type of like you know, problem against him. Now,

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Speaker 3: you probably haven't understanding of World War two stuff. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, there's spy versus spy. You know,

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Speaker 3: they're like trying to get in and you know four things.

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Speaker 3: Do you have any conversation about that?

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Speaker 5: I mean, look, this is the nature of intelligence, right.

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Speaker 1: We have guys on our side who want to collect

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Speaker 1: information on the other guys. They don't want us to

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Speaker 1: collect that information, so they have counterintelligence. They're trying to

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Speaker 1: find you know, like I was saying, I recruit a

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Speaker 1: spy to go spy on your government agency.

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Speaker 5: They're trying to find that guy. So it's just back

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Speaker 5: and forth. It's that spy verse.

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Speaker 1: Spy, like you said. And that's been going on. That

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Speaker 1: goes back way further than World War Two. That's been

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Speaker 1: going on since the dawn of humanity. Some people, you know,

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Speaker 1: some people called intelligence the second oldest profession, and.

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Speaker 5: So in World War two.

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Speaker 1: Special about that for America though, is that I think

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Speaker 1: of it as the big Bang for American intelligence because

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Speaker 1: we did really have centralized intelligence before that. We kind

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Speaker 1: of had military intelligence. During the war, we would spin up,

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Speaker 1: you know, reconnaissance and intelligence function, we would turn it,

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Speaker 1: we would turn it off during peacetime.

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Speaker 5: We didn't like to have intelligence.

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Speaker 1: And in World War Two we created something called the OSS,

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Speaker 1: which was really our first spy agency.

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Speaker 3: Right, and again that was in conjunction with like kind

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Speaker 3: of the British right where you know, the whole thing and.

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Speaker 4: The guy out of Australia.

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Speaker 3: I think who created the OSS, who was like a

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Speaker 3: dual spy, and it was like, what side is he

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Speaker 3: really on? Well he was buried with like American honors,

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Speaker 3: So there's kind of that, you know, I can't remember

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Speaker 3: how the spy. Forgive me for forgetting. I've actually done

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Speaker 3: a book interview about him. But yeah, you're right, the OSS, Okay,

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Speaker 3: And now that led to what we know is like

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Speaker 3: the CIA.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean we look, we were so.

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Speaker 1: We had such a distaste for intelligence in America. There

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Speaker 1: was this guy, Henry Stimpson. He was the Secretary of

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Speaker 1: State in the Secretary of War. He sort of said,

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Speaker 1: sort of notoriously said, gentlemen, don't read each other's mail.

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Speaker 5: Like that was how we felt.

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Speaker 1: We felt like it was distasteful, it was ungentlemanly to

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Speaker 1: spy in a way. And actually after World War Two,

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Speaker 1: Truman shut down the OSS and he said he didn't

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Speaker 1: want there to be an American Gestapo.

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Speaker 5: So for a couple of years there in the beginning of.

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Speaker 1: Cold War, we didn't have any spy agency. You know,

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Speaker 1: we kind of had some stuff going on in the

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Speaker 1: army and the State Department.

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Speaker 5: That was it.

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Speaker 1: And then nineteen forty seven they set up the CIA

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Speaker 1: because we realized, you know, look we're going up against

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Speaker 1: a big boy now. We were in a Cold War

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Speaker 1: with the Soviet Union and they had the KGB, and

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Speaker 1: those guys don't mess around, and we need our own,

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Speaker 1: we need our own permanent, peacetime professional agency.

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Speaker 3: And that was a CIA, right, just take a lot

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Speaker 3: everything under their umbrella that was just not military per

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Speaker 3: se related.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: I've also we've all seen like clear and present danger

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Speaker 3: from Tom Clancy where you know, Willem Dafoe and his

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Speaker 3: men are just like cut off. It's like, just let

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Speaker 3: them get out of it by leave them there. Like

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Speaker 3: they send these guys in to do a mission and

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Speaker 3: then they just canceled the mission. Rambo's the same thing,

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Speaker 3: Rambo First Blood Part two. He goes in to get

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Speaker 3: the POWs out. It's all like under the CIA guys

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Speaker 3: and all this discrete, you know, clandestine, and then all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden the very end, it's like, yeah, just

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Speaker 3: don't pick him up. He gets there and gets the

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Speaker 3: mission done. He finds the POWs. They didn't want to

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Speaker 3: find that. They didn't want to find the intelligence.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: We the OSS did both intelligence collection. They also did

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Speaker 1: special operations right and the and the OSS was in

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Speaker 1: many ways kind of the precursor to the Green Berets,

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Speaker 1: and Aaron Bank was a member, and then and the Seals.

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Speaker 1: They had the first maritime unit well before the Navy.

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Speaker 1: They were willing to, you know, use scuba gear before

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Speaker 1: anybody else. And the CIA kind of continued that because

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Speaker 1: they had both intelligence collection this is by law, and

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Speaker 1: covert action. And in covert action, you're doing those things

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Speaker 1: that other agencies can't do. You're you're doing things that

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Speaker 1: are deniable by the government. And some of them can

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Speaker 1: be direct action. Some of them could be you know,

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Speaker 1: influencing other people, say politically, you're influencing.

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Speaker 5: Some of them could be supporting, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, opposition groups in other countries. There's lots of types

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Speaker 1: of covert action. They had that piece as well as

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Speaker 1: information collection, and really intelligence is about information collection and analysis.

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Speaker 1: That's the vast majority of what's done you know, president

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Speaker 1: needs to make a decision. Somebody's got to give them

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Speaker 1: information to make that.

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Speaker 3: Decision, right, You would think that they would want to

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Speaker 3: have this, you know, briefing, daily briefing given to them

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Speaker 3: or what Hey, here's what's going on on the the net.

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Speaker 3: You know, you might want to think about it. They're

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Speaker 3: doing this over in this country or they're trying to

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Speaker 3: do this to our country. Do you have any concern

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Speaker 3: about that or just gentlemen's game, sir. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 3: let's not look at their mail. It's like what we

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Speaker 3: got their mail? Hmm, hold the light.

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Speaker 5: I mean now we're now we're seemed to be perfectly.

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Speaker 3: Comfortable completely Yeah, I mean, you know, I guess covert

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Speaker 3: operations would be like you know, in Afghanistan when Masuri

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Speaker 3: Sharif was being under you know, uh suppression by like

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Speaker 3: see what thirties. I think the first casualty was Mike

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Speaker 3: Span who was a.

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Speaker 4: CIA you know, uh KIA.

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Speaker 3: Killed in action during that Masri Sharif, that would be

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Speaker 3: the same. That's that's he's he's on the ground, you know,

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Speaker 3: under that guy's and we all know about him because

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Speaker 3: he was k iaight unfortunately, and you know I mean,

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Speaker 3: you guys are are putting yourselves in the line of fire.

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Speaker 3: You know, you're doing things to make sure that guys

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Speaker 3: like myself can have this podcast, you know, under the

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Speaker 3: guise of the American flag freedom right, so we can

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Speaker 3: do the things that we want to continue to do

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Speaker 3: and our neighbors.

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Speaker 4: And I don't think anybody's really ready.

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Speaker 3: I asked this question around my circle here in Salt Lake,

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Speaker 3: you know, to people around me. I'm like that, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: are you ready for a hypersonic missile to come blow

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Speaker 3: up the car wash while you're standing there?

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Speaker 4: Are we ready? Do you even have? Are you ready

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Speaker 4: for that?

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Speaker 3: Because like what's going on in like Ukraine and how

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Speaker 3: of a sudden super missile comes in and just blows

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Speaker 3: up the park. You know, people are just having a

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Speaker 3: normal day and then the sounds and the tonightis and

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Speaker 3: the ears and then the ringing and then like all

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Speaker 3: of them when the smoke settles and the calamity, It

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Speaker 3: is like, are we ready for that?

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Speaker 4: Here?

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Speaker 3: I don't think so, you know, we're just walking around

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Speaker 3: kind of like, oh, we believe in guys like yourself

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Speaker 3: or the Navy seals that run the sites, or the

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Speaker 3: green berets do their jobs in the closeness of night.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, there are guys down range in the military

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Speaker 1: and intelligence who kind of take the ultimate risks, right,

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Speaker 1: And a lot of intelligence guys it might just be you,

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Speaker 1: it might be one guy.

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Speaker 5: Right, You're just out.

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Speaker 1: There and there's there's maybe there's no backup, right, and

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Speaker 1: and if something goes wrong, you only have you know

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Speaker 1: your wits and your planning to kind of get out

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Speaker 1: of that. And that can be really scary, and it

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Speaker 1: takes a lot of courage, It's true. It takes a

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Speaker 1: lot of bravery. Military obviously has the same and there's

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of guys in the intelligence community

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Speaker 1: served in the military before they came and.

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Speaker 4: You know, you see you say these guys are down range.

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Speaker 4: Don't you think we're all kind of downrange today? With

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Speaker 4: the internet and you know, I mean a little bit

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Speaker 4: of this.

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Speaker 3: I think that there's a there's there's a war going

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Speaker 3: on also right versus like the missiles and the guns

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Speaker 3: and the trenches. There's these keyboard wars that are going

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Speaker 3: on right now that maybe people aren't paying attention to

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Speaker 3: where they're collecting data or there's bad actors in the

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Speaker 3: world that are trying to gather information based off of

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Speaker 3: your post.

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Speaker 1: You hit the nail on the head. There used to

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Speaker 1: be they called it in the Cold War the fold

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Speaker 1: of Gap. You know this that the Soviet Union would

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Speaker 1: invade Europe through the folder Gap is kind of a

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Speaker 1: region in Central Europe.

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Speaker 5: Now that fold of GAP's on our cell phone.

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Speaker 1: Right, We're all the edge, we are all the perimeter,

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Speaker 1: and they are.

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Speaker 5: Trying to collect information.

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Speaker 1: And when I say they, I mean China, Russia, Iran,

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Speaker 1: North Korea, places like that there, and they are trying

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Speaker 1: to collect information from people, but they're also trying to

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Speaker 1: change their minds. You know, they've realized that the American

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Speaker 1: citizen is the soft underbelly of this nation.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: We are the ones who vote, We're the ones who.

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Speaker 5: Run for Congress. We're the ones who work in the military.

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Speaker 5: We are the ones who work at a company.

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Speaker 1: That maybe builds technology like AI for the military.

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Speaker 5: We are the soft underbelly.

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Speaker 1: And so for decades we kind of got used to

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Speaker 1: this idea that it's like presidents and generals and kernels

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Speaker 1: and people like that were the targets, and now we're

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Speaker 1: all the targets, and that.

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Speaker 5: Is a massive change and really the core of.

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Speaker 1: What my book's about and what I wanted to write about,

380
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Speaker 1: because I don't think people realize what's really going on.

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Speaker 5: You see stuff in the news.

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Speaker 1: You hear oh tiktoks of danger or oh there is

383
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Speaker 1: another hack of a healthcare system, and it's just these blips,

384
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Speaker 1: but they all add up to something, which is we're

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Speaker 1: all being targeted, and now we need to all protect

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Speaker 1: ourselves because we're all being targeted.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what about these companies that you know, I've

388
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Speaker 3: been I've done it where I've spit in the tube

389
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Speaker 3: and I've sent it off to see how the family

390
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Speaker 3: all reacts to each other's DNAs, you know, and then

391
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Speaker 3: you hear that, you know, all that information.

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Speaker 4: Could be just sold to somebody else as a business.

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Speaker 4: It's much at all, you know what, Yeah.

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Speaker 5: It's much worse than that.

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Speaker 1: So you spit that to and first it can be stolen,

396
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Speaker 1: maybe somebody can hack in and take it from the company.

397
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Speaker 1: But what's even worse is that most likely that company,

398
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Speaker 1: even if they were American, probably sent your spit to

399
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Speaker 1: China to have it tested there because they can operate

400
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Speaker 1: like everything else. Right, They're just it's just cheaper to

401
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 1: do things in China on purpose for some of these

402
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,880
Speaker 1: things they're they're subsidizing businesses like this, and so they

403
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Speaker 1: most likely do actually have a lot of people's DNA

404
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 1: sitting over there, and there are companies like BGI Genomics

405
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Speaker 1: is a big Chinese pharmaceutical and biotechnology company. And not

406
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Speaker 1: only are they collecting DNA from people all over the

407
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Speaker 1: world there there there is evidence that they're they they

408
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Speaker 1: are are in contracts with the People's Liberation Army with

409
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Speaker 1: the PLA, so.

410
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Speaker 5: That information.

411
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 1: That DNA your genetics is possibly going directly to the

412
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Speaker 1: People's Liberation Army and who knows who else, most likely

413
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 1: their intelligence community as well, because in China, their intelligence

414
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Speaker 1: community can ask for any information they want from any

415
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Speaker 1: Chinese citizen or any Chinese company, any to them they want,

416
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Speaker 1: and there's no recourse. They can just go in and

417
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Speaker 1: take it and say, yep, that's mine.

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Speaker 3: Interesting, you know what I mean, because like I guess

419
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Speaker 3: you could start thinking about like if they can just

420
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Speaker 3: I mean, what like we all sign up to Instagram

421
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 3: or we all sign up to the local website and

422
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 3: upload our credit card information, and you know, it's just like, oh, hey,

423
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 3: buy now with three taps of your thumb on you know,

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Speaker 3: on a I don't even want to say their website,

425
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Speaker 3: you know, because I don't want to give them any

426
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Speaker 3: like respect about that. But you know they're not doing

427
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 3: proper humans a arryan, you know, workforce. They're using underage

428
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Speaker 3: kids to make your clothing, and it's fast clothing. But

429
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Speaker 3: yet you side right up and you just say, oh,

430
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Speaker 3: it's only six bucks versus thirteen dollars locally, let me

431
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Speaker 3: just buy it for six bucks and have it sent

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Speaker 3: to me.

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Speaker 4: But they have all that information from you.

434
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Speaker 3: You could have shopped locally and supported the local neighbor

435
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: that sells the same thing. But you know, they do

436
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 3: sell it so much cheaper because they just want to

437
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Speaker 3: gather the info which we just give thinking it's just

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Speaker 3: a normal thing.

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Speaker 1: We just give it away and we don't think about

440
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: it as a security concern, whereas we don't. Most of

441
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: us don't think like intelligence officers, and for decades or

442
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 1: centuries of the American life, we didn't have to, and

443
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,959
Speaker 1: now we kind of do. Weirdly, we have all learned

444
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 1: to protect our computers, right we have.

445
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 5: You know, we teach five year.

446
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: Old CyberSecure, and we say, you know, you have to

447
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 1: use a password, and you have to you know, and

448
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: if you see a weird email, don't open it.

449
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 5: It might be it's a different sing.

450
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 1: So we've learned to protect our computers, but we've never

451
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: learned to protect ourselves, to protect our own minds. We

452
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: don't even think about that as a security issue, but

453
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 1: it is right there. We need to start thinking about

454
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: it that way and training people, even training kids, to

455
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: think about, Hey, when somebody's collecting your information, when you're

456
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: giving away information, it might not just be you know,

457
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: to sign up for an email list you want to

458
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: be on. It might it might be going somewhere bad

459
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: and those people might not have your best intentions at heart.

460
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: And it's even worse than them just trying to maybe

461
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: steal some money from you. They might be doing this

462
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: to harm your your community or harm your country.

463
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 3: I mean, they might try to figure out what makes

464
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: us tick in a bio way to use you know,

465
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 3: bio on us that we could not you know, vaccine,

466
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 3: vaccine against or you know, thwart or use any type

467
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 3: of like over the counter medication to stop It's just like,

468
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 3: what do you do you know, it's like, here comes

469
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 3: a super a superflu And I say that because there's

470
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,959
Speaker 3: a movie and it's called The Sword of the Stone

471
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 3: and it's a Disney cartoon and it has Merlin and

472
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 3: Arthur and he pulls the sword. But during that he

473
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 3: battles mim Okay, Merlin battles another wizard mime and they

474
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 3: try to battle. He turned into fiery dragons, and then

475
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 3: they turn into a mouse and an elephant, and then

476
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 3: at the end, he turns into a biological cold and

477
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 3: she's in bed with a thermometer and.

478
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 4: She's He's like, I've turned into the cold, bro. You

479
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 4: can't get rid of that, you know what I mean.

480
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 4: And so.

481
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 3: To kind of bring it full circle, you know, biological

482
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 3: warfare obviously it's wizards, Okay, it could be out there,

483
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: you know, it has to be something on the intelligence circuit, right.

484
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 5: Well, if you want to get dark for a.

485
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 4: Second, yeah, I do.

486
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: During apartheid in South Africa, the South African government had

487
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: a program a biological warfare targeted specifically at black people that.

488
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 5: Would affect black people and not white people. So they

489
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 5: went there. Now this was decades ago.

490
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: They didn't have the capability to genetically engineer a disease,

491
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 1: but they they kind of showed that it's possible for

492
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: a country to do this, and it is extremely scary

493
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: to think of today where people have seen how bad

494
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: and a pandemic can get economically, how many people can die,

495
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: And we do have the engineering capability to engineer diseases,

496
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: and we are talking about a country like China that

497
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: is sitting on the genetic information of millions of people,

498
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 1: and it is conceivable that that would happen. That isn't

499
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: science fiction anymore. That's within the world of possible.

500
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 4: Now.

501
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 5: I don't know if that's happening, and hopefully it's not.

502
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: But this is where you know, the intelligence community and

503
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: the military and people like this come in is to

504
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: try to protect us from those threats. But we also

505
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: need to protect ourselves and be careful about where we

506
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: send information, like our own genetics.

507
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 3: We all need to be our own little internal intelligence

508
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 3: officer inside.

509
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 4: We all need to be a little bit.

510
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 3: More cautious with our personal details, finances and things that

511
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 3: we post up online or what seems so innocent. You know,

512
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 3: you open up a cruise ship app and you're entering

513
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 3: your information and is their site secure?

514
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, and it's the small guys that can

515
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 4: get hit.

516
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: Think like a spy, you know, be kind of a

517
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: citizen intelligence officer. That may be necessary. And look, I

518
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: don't think.

519
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 5: That it's like we all need to be sitting around

520
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 5: paranoid all the time. Sure, but you know we're all raised.

521
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: You grow up and you're taught Okay, this is a

522
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: bad neighborhood. Be a little more careful. Don't leave your

523
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: valuables in the car. Put your wallet into your front pocket, right, Like,

524
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: we're all raised in a way to protect ourselves.

525
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 5: And by the way, in the Cold War we're raised.

526
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: You know, people were raised to hide under their desks

527
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: and say of a NUCA missile coming in, and today

528
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: kids are taught to hide in case of an active shooter.

529
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 5: So KRULDN realize there are bad things. We know there

530
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 5: are bad things.

531
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 1: In the world, and it's just prudent to say there

532
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: are other bad things. And maybe that's collecting information, and

533
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 1: maybe that's trying to convince me of something. Maybe when

534
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: I'm on you know, something like TikTok, which is Chinese

535
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: owned and they not only can, but but it's been

536
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: proven do use it for censorship and other information control.

537
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: Then you should be prudent and we should be aware

538
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: of these kinds of threats and act accordingly.

539
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 4: I mean even video games. I can think of a

540
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 4: very popular.

541
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 3: Game out there, and I usually like to like invest

542
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 3: in a company that has video games, and if you

543
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 3: have to like buy in on the video game for

544
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 3: points or bucks or you know, any of that kind

545
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 3: of thing, I'm like, well, if they're going to collect

546
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 3: money from everybody, I'm what's their stock value?

547
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 4: That's my first thing. So this one company I looked up.

548
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 3: You know, my daughter was into this game and it

549
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 3: was very popular, and I was like, what are you

550
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 3: spending money on there? She's like, oh, this game. And

551
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, what's that game called? Right, That's

552
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: all I wanted to know. And I walked away and

553
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 3: I'm like, why she spending you know, twelve bucks to

554
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 3: get points on this game to build her load out?

555
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 3: So I google it and I'm like, oh, it's only

556
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: owned by three people, not in America, out of China

557
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: and or you know, in that area of Asia. And

558
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 3: I was just like, well, how do I buy stock?

559
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 3: I'm like, is this an open traded It's like no,

560
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: it's privately owned. I'm like, wow, you know they're getting

561
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 3: three people have access to this huge video game platform

562
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,719
Speaker 3: and they're just collecting everybody's data, your strokes, your keystrokes,

563
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 3: everything that you're doing through that game. Nobody really reads

564
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 3: I think the user agreements, the privacy agreements, and if

565
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 3: they are I mean, are they honestly the real thing?

566
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 4: But still, I mean you're doing it.

567
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 5: You just did it right there, right, You did some

568
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 5: due diligence I did.

569
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you thought like an intelligence officer, you kind of

570
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: learned something and you dug into it and that that's

571
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: what people will need to do. And we can do

572
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: that for anything, right, and we can go and say, hey,

573
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: there's a new we're so used to this technology as

574
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: American owned, right, and like it's safe in some way

575
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: and it's regulated and it's not me.

576
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 5: But all of a sudden, yeah, all of a sudden,

577
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 5: like some of it's not right. And so it just

578
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 5: take can you know that one minute to say.

579
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: Let me, let me dive a little deeper into this

580
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: and see and see what's really going on and are

581
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: people talking about.

582
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 5: This being a problem. Is it a thread? Is my

583
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 5: information going somewhere? I don't want it? Are they are?

584
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: Is it known that this is maybe a state owned

585
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: enterprise by the Chinese government, and so it's and just

586
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: literally it might take a minute, may take five minutes.

587
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: You put it into chat GPT and then you can

588
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: make a decision. And that doesn't mean not doing anything.

589
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: We're all going to buy Chinese stuff, right, like it's

590
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: impossible to live.

591
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 4: I'm not against that, right exactly.

592
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, but now you're making an informed decision

593
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: like a president would, right, And you're saying.

594
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 5: Okay, I know this.

595
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: Now I can assess the risk and I'm willing to

596
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: live with it, or maybe I'm not.

597
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 5: And we need to do it for our kids too, because.

598
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 4: They make intelligence exactly.

599
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: So I gathered the intelligence and then made a decision

600
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 3: and just was like, well, I told my daughter. I

601
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 3: was like, hey, do you ever think about this because

602
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 3: the other things I've invested in there seem to be

603
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 3: openly traded or on the stock market, you know, and

604
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 3: I find that to be a little bit you know,

605
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 3: they've probably follow some type of ethical code.

606
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's some transparency, like you could be kind

607
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: of sure they're going to follow some rules. They probably

608
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: have some level of cybersecurity and you know, government regulation, right.

609
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 5: And so you you made that assessment, right, and you.

610
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 3: Because because there's going to pick that open sourced intelligence

611
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: or the intelligence were given somebody through these apps or these.

612
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 4: You know, social media platforms.

613
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 3: And it's even the current big dogs social media platforms,

614
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 3: all the main four whoever you go to, you know,

615
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: all of them out there. It's like they're all gathering

616
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 3: our information. And it's not just China, it's America. It's

617
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 3: like these guys are in America and they're gathering information,

618
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: you know, for their new glasses that you are going

619
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 3: to wear now and that's going to zoom right into

620
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 3: your career cerebral cortex.

621
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 4: All this information just flooding in. You know.

622
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, we're just getting pegged for all

623
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 3: of our info.

624
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, the same thing does happen. American

625
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: companies take information and that's how that whole economy works.

626
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 5: In social media.

627
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: But there is a big difference between an American company

628
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: and a Chinese one when it comes to this.

629
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 5: You know one, Look, they're also American citizens.

630
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: Primarily running these companies, and they have to abide by

631
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: laws and if they do something wrong, they can be

632
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: brought to court.

633
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 5: That's not the case in China.

634
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: CEO of that company does something that is very illegal

635
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: in America, there's nothing we can do about it. That

636
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: guy lives in Beijing or Shanghai or something, and there's nothing.

637
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 4: Coming all China.

638
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 3: In China, it's like what's yours is theirs, and what's

639
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 3: theirs is theirs in China. So the Chinese are like, hey,

640
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 3: I don't see many people in the provinces running you know, cryptomind.

641
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying.

642
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 3: All the people that live out in the different areas

643
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: that are enfranchised from the rest of the big dogs

644
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 3: in China, there's not a lot of folks don't realize

645
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,719
Speaker 3: that the people are struggling to just maintain a life.

646
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 3: And then there's the people at the very top that

647
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: just are running the whole show and just gathering all

648
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 3: the information. Like you said, they can just go to

649
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 3: Company A and say give us all your information. So

650
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 3: everything over there really just works for you know, the

651
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 3: government of China.

652
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. I mean you bring up a good point. Look,

653
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 5: this isn't about Chinese people. No, Chinese people are like

654
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 5: American people.

655
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: They're just living their life, working at a job, doing

656
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: their thing. It's the government, it's the regime, it's the

657
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: Communist Party, and that that party is I believe bad

658
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: for the Chinese people. I mean they commit you know,

659
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: atrocities on people, and this is well documented. These are

660
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 1: not good people and they do you know, they want

661
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: to do worse to us.

662
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 5: You know, think of what they're doing to their own

663
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 5: people and.

664
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: What they would do to us if they consider us

665
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: the the you know, they consider us in some way

666
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: as an enemy.

667
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 5: And so but that.

668
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: Also gets at how how it is different there. Everything

669
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: is controlled from the top down, right. I mean that

670
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: there there are other sources of power. I mean, province

671
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: is not power, and you know they're big companies.

672
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 5: But like really, at the end of the day, Jijingping.

673
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: Can do whatever he wants and he can dig down

674
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: deep and tell anybody to do what he wants. And

675
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: we don't have that here. And that's a big difference.

676
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: And the and there is a separation. Sure, maybe you're

677
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 1: on this, maybe you're on Instagram or you're on you know,

678
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: you're on x or you're on you know, social media

679
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: company here, but the government, our government can't just go

680
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: and walk in that door and say give me all

681
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: your data, and I want you to do I want

682
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: you to take this person and kick them off, and

683
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: I want you to silence this.

684
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 5: They don't have control. We don't do that. We have

685
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 5: a separation. They don't have that separation.

686
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 4: Then what do you think about our current president Trump.

687
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 3: Only a social media platform like that with his truth platform,

688
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 3: where he does capture everybody's information on there.

689
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I think there's a slippery slope where I

690
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: think everybody believes in freedom and speech in this country,

691
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: and the last thing any of us want to happen

692
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: is for our government to control what we're saying. I

693
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: know I feel this way. I think everybody does. It's

694
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: fundamental to who we are. And so we want to

695
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: look at our government and know that it's not trying

696
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: to control what we say, what we do at a

697
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: really deep, fundamental level as citizens. And so we've just

698
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: got to hope that the system, the laws in place,

699
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: the checks and balances in place, ensure.

700
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 5: That any actions by.

701
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: Anybody in the government, president, or anybody else don't range

702
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 1: on those basic rights.

703
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 5: And if they do, that we stop that from happening.

704
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: You know, by making it illegal, forcing a divestia, sure,

705
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, forcing some separation. And to me, that's just

706
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: like core to who we are as a nation.

707
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 4: That's very good to hear, very good to hear.

708
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 3: Now, you know with all of these different things like

709
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 3: medical records, financial records, the data breaches that happen here

710
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 3: and there that.

711
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 4: People just seem to blow off. You know, oh, hey, don't.

712
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 3: Forget that so and so's credit checking company, you know

713
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 3: that tells you your credit score has had a breach.

714
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 3: Do you want to join the class action and get

715
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 3: twelve cents back? It's like, well, wait that twelve cents back?

716
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 3: What got breached?

717
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 4: Right? And so what's that being used for?

718
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 3: And you know who took that and what are the

719
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 3: actors like? And you know, I guess we are just

720
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 3: so trusting with our devices that are in our hand.

721
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: Living in the US or wherever you may live, you

722
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: may feel just confident in your hometown of wherever that's at.

723
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 4: Even if you're in England.

724
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 3: You may feel like you have some freedom, right, freedom

725
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 3: of looking on your phone and now there's now there's

726
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 3: this thing on your phone and you're in your country,

727
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: but that thing's not in your country. It's on your phone,

728
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 3: but it's coming from a third party like uh, North

729
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 3: Korea or you know, Russia or China or like you said,

730
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 3: you know, any of the different acts of evils whoever

731
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 3: they decide to call them today, you know, but it's

732
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 3: it's right here, so you feel kind of safe, you're

733
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 3: in your own home. You're like, what's the worst that

734
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 3: can happen?

735
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 5: That's that's the trick, right, that's the mind trick.

736
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: It's almost like we can't even comprehend what that means

737
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: that there can be this threat coming through this little

738
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: black box in my hand, but it does, and it

739
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: can change how you think about the world or how

740
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,879
Speaker 1: your kids think about the world. And I think there's

741
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: something else going on as well, which is like for

742
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: a long time we looked at those breaches, like you're saying,

743
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: you know, somebody took you know, this financial data that

744
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: we saw his crime, right, so we just think about

745
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 1: it as like some hackers, you know, like visualize, you know,

746
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: like some guy in a hoodie, you know, hacking away

747
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: just trying to make it, you know, make some money

748
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: by stealing some credit cards.

749
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 5: Like that's where we at in our mind.

750
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: And that's how we treated it, and and so we

751
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: we monetized it. We're like, okay, you get hacked, you

752
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: get twelve cents back, Like you're saying.

753
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 5: That's not how it is now.

754
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: Always it's not just a financial crime, right, it's not

755
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: just hackers. These are nation states doing it, and they're

756
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: doing it for national security reasons. They're trying to harm

757
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: the country. They're trying to you know, disrupt an election.

758
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 1: They're trying to have fellows citizens be angry with each

759
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: other because that they know that we'll make us weaker.

760
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: They're trying to steal, you know, information to create technologies

761
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,800
Speaker 1: that would be used in a war against us. Right,

762
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: So these are not financial crimes anymore. These are national

763
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: security crimes that affect all.

764
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 5: Of us, and we need to start thinking.

765
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: Differently about it as individuals, but also as companies and

766
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 1: also as a government.

767
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 5: You know, we can't let the stuff slide anymore. We

768
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 5: have to look at it.

769
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: And say, no, these our citizens are being targeted. We

770
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: need to go after this and we need to stop

771
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: it from happening. And a fine, you know, just finding

772
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: a company for gradual it's not going to cut it. Like,

773
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: it's not just like oh, they lost some money for people,

774
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: but we can ensure it.

775
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 5: It's fine.

776
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: It's like, no, they harmed us, and we need to

777
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: stop them. We need to deter them from doing this again.

778
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 3: I love it. No great conversation. I hope that you know,

779
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 3: if you come away from this, you know, podcast episode,

780
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 3: that you know.

781
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 4: We our listener, our viewer.

782
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 3: It's just to be a little more cognizant or aware

783
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 3: of your hey, your situational awareness around you.

784
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 4: Okay, always looking around, making sure you're good, be.

785
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 3: What you're uploading, situational awareness and and and then see

786
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 3: what you're joining and the information you're giving. And I

787
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 3: know that like places are legit. And I'm not saying

788
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 3: stop you know, doing business with your local bank and stuff.

789
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 3: But you just got to be aware that if you're

790
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 3: just opting into some crazy chat, gpt app or some

791
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 3: type of filter that says I'm gonna make you look

792
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 3: like a lion's face, okay, just kind of just grow

793
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 3: your beard out and be a lion. Okay, you just

794
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,479
Speaker 3: got to grow it. Let it go, grow your own maid.

795
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 3: But you get what I'm saying.

796
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I think I think that's exactly the takeaway.

797
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: And look The takeaway is also that it's everybody, and

798
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: it includes soldiers, includes retired military right there. Especially they

799
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 1: especially want to target people like that. And I know

800
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: people are seeing into this right now, Like they look

801
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: at you as somebody they probably cannot defeat in the battlefield.

802
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 5: They want to try to defeat you in before the

803
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 5: battle even happens by changing your mind.

804
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: A win for them is China doesn't even fight for Taiwan,

805
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: We just give it up.

806
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 4: Right.

807
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: That's called cognitive warfare, when you try to win a

808
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: fight without even fighting by changing people's minds. And this

809
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: is ultimately where it's going for them, is how do

810
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: I win that battle over Taiwan or whatever it is

811
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: before it even happens, so I.

812
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 5: Don't have to fight you on the battlefield, or.

813
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: Maybe I win it against your kids, right and I

814
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: change their minds. So when they grow up and they

815
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 1: turn eighteen and they enlist, they don't want to fight

816
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: in Taiwan either, or when they become a colonel or

817
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: general one day and have to decide a war plan,

818
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: they say, you know what, I don't want to fight

819
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: this war, right, Like that's the win for them, And

820
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: that's just a really different way to think about the

821
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: world in a way none of us are used to

822
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: thinking about the world.

823
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 5: But that's the new world we live in.

824
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 3: And you know, President Biden said this when he was

825
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 3: in office, was you know, the next war is not

826
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 3: going to be a bullet shot. It's going to be

827
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 3: a keystroke. You know, it's just going to be that

828
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: kind of warfare. Somebody's going to just trigger somebody with

829
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 3: a keystroke and then it's just going to be set

830
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 3: and then off it goes, you know, online per se,

831
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: whatever that keystroke is.

832
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 4: But I kind of believe in that.

833
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 3: You know, I can see that, and I know that

834
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 3: like in Ukraine right now, it is very bullets on target,

835
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 3: but it's also very propaganda coming into.

836
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 4: My feed and your feed, and like, this.

837
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 3: Is what's going on, and it's showing us what it

838
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 3: thinks we need to see because this is a supercomputer

839
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 3: right here, and I am not a supercomputer.

840
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 5: Yeah.

841
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 1: There's this author William Gibson, he wrote this book called Neuromancer,

842
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 1: is kind of a science fiction author, and he has

843
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: this great quote he said, he said, the future is here,

844
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:14,919
Speaker 1: it's just not evenly distributed.

845
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 5: And so when we look at Ukraine, you're.

846
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: Seeing that future. Yeah, look they're in trenches in the bud.

847
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: That's a real war over there. There's a lot of

848
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: guys dying. But they're also showing the future of that war.

849
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 1: These guys are flying drones against each other. They're updating

850
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: those drones all the time. They're most likely doing cyber

851
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,800
Speaker 1: attacks and information.

852
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 5: Attacks and all these kinds of things.

853
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: So we're seeing both right, and we're seeing that you know,

854
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: unevenly distributed future, and that is going to be our

855
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: future probably next war we fight, it is going to

856
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: be that keystroke. It's going to be robot. We're still

857
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,479
Speaker 1: gonna have guys on the ground, you know, they're gonna

858
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: be guys like you know what I did, you know

859
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: when I was in Iraq, out.

860
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 5: There collecting information, recruiting sources.

861
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: They're gonna be soft guys out there, you know, doing

862
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: doing their thing on an island somewhere in the South Pacific.

863
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 5: But a lot of it is going.

864
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: To be these drones, and those drones or those AI

865
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: systems were made by somebody here who went to an

866
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: American college maybe and works at a company in the

867
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: Bay Area or in Austin or something, and that person is.

868
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 5: Being targeted, right because.

869
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: They they want that whoever that that guy or gal is,

870
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: they want that person to not make that software right

871
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 1: where if they do make it, they want them to

872
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 1: they want to take that software and use it themselves

873
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: as well.

874
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 3: Like the family that was escorted out of the US

875
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 3: and they had to take their kids who didn't know

876
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 3: they were Russian spies and the parents. There was that

877
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 3: trade between Russia and the US for like a prisoner

878
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 3: swap and they gave up this family that had been

879
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 3: captured and like send them back to Russia.

880
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 4: And the kids were like what Yeah, yeah, the.

881
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 3: Whole time, you know, living a fan, living a in

882
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 3: the US, you know this is current, that's like, this

883
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 3: is happening.

884
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 5: You know, there's this there's this kind of story where.

885
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: It talks about if the US and the Russians and

886
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: the Chinese each wanted to get some sand from a

887
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: beach somewhere right the US, we'd we'd get you know,

888
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: we'd get this satellite and it'd be a billion dollar

889
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: satellite and we'd send it up into space and it

890
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: would use a special sensor that you know, Nobel Prize

891
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: winning physicists made that would scan the beach and understand

892
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: the chemistry of the sand. The Russians they would send

893
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: in a submarine and they would have their spetsnas like

894
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: special operations guy in the middle of the night swim

895
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: up to the beach and grab, you know, a little

896
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: sample of the sand. The Chinese, they would invite a

897
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: thousand Chinese tourists to go to that beach and they

898
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,919
Speaker 1: would suntan all day, hang out, go swimming, get back

899
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: on the plane. And when they landed in Shanghai, the

900
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: Chinese MSS their CIA would come in, take their towels,

901
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 1: shake out the sand from the towels, and they would

902
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 1: have more sand than the rest of us could to

903
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: collect it, and it would cost almost nothing. Right, And

904
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 1: it's just a different mentality of how you collect information

905
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: and how you do things, and like to your point,

906
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: you know, people don't They're going to come in and

907
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: just think about it in non traditional ways that we're

908
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 1: not used to.

909
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 4: Right.

910
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 3: There's always someone out there trying to think of another

911
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 3: way to be devious, and so we have to keep

912
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 3: training guys like yourself and others to be also as devious.

913
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 3: Because as I've talked to undercover FBI agents who helped

914
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 3: thwart Russian spies inside the FBI. The dude had to

915
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: become the same thing. Yeah, he had to like learn

916
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 3: and live the same path for five years. You know,

917
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 3: he's like talk about spy.

918
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the fun thing about being an intelligence officer.

919
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 5: Right, you are, You're a paid criminal. You're paid to

920
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 5: You're a criminal on behalf of your country.

921
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 1: You're not taking more laws, right, You're thinking about devious

922
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: ways to get things, to steal things information usually from

923
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: other countries, and think are clever ways to do it,

924
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: and you're doing it to give your own country an

925
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,280
Speaker 1: unfair advantage.

926
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 5: Right, This isn't a fair game. If we're in a

927
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 5: fair fight, we've already lost.

928
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: The idea is to get information unfairly, give us an

929
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: unfair advantage by having people who go there and are

930
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: our devious people.

931
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 5: You have to be like that a little.

932
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: The balance, though, is you also have to have a

933
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 1: huge amount of integrity because you can never turn that back.

934
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,879
Speaker 5: To your own country. And that's a lot of people

935
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 5: don't realize. This is when.

936
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: You're recruited as an intelligence officer. The number one thing

937
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: for being recruited is do you have integrity? If you

938
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 1: don't have that, then you're not allowed to play in

939
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: this handbox.

940
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:00,799
Speaker 5: That's it.

941
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 3: You're going home, right, because again, like the gentleman that

942
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 3: cred oss Or was a.

943
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 4: Big part of that in the very beginning. You know,

944
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 4: they all.

945
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 3: Thought that he fought for multiple sides. And they're like, well,

946
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 3: I is he fighting for the Russians? Is he fighting

947
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 3: for England? Is he fighting for America?

948
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 4: You know? And again when I mentioned that he was buried.

949
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 3: With American honors, et cetera, you know, for his service,

950
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 3: that's what he should be recognized as, not the other things.

951
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 3: But through history it's like, well, was his loyalty to

952
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 3: the US the whole time? Well, he had to do

953
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: things that seemed like it wasn't in order for it

954
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 3: to be.

955
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, they these these there is a long

956
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: history of people you for whom you may not even

957
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: know the real story. But some people do know the

958
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,479
Speaker 1: real story. And they were out there protecting the nation.

959
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 5: And and and.

960
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 1: I think, I think you're you're, you're you're talking about

961
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 1: some of them. I six guys and the and the

962
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: Potish who helped us olled this. We didn't know how

963
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: to do it.

964
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 5: We didn't have.

965
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: We didn't have a history of this, and we you know,

966
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: President Roosevelt at the time appointed this guy, Bill Donovan.

967
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: They called him wild of Donovan and and he he

968
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: was he was a lawyer. He is an amazing guy.

969
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: He was a Republican who worked for Roosevelt. They disagreed

970
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: with each other politically, but but Roosevelt knew Donovan was

971
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: the right guy, and he said, I needed to make

972
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: our intelligence agency was called the COI at first, and

973
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: Donovan was was was also a bit of a devious guy,

974
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: and he put it together. He learned from the British.

975
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: They helped us set it up, and he went out

976
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: there and he didn't think like he didn't.

977
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 5: Think like a normal person at that time. He was like, well,

978
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 5: who do I need?

979
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need some guys who went to Yale and

980
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: were lawyers and whatever. But you know, also need I

981
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: need this guy who's in prison because he's the best

982
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: guy at cracking safes in the world, and I'm going

983
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: to go get him out of prison and I'm going

984
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 1: to have him come teach me how to do it.

985
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 5: He would recruit magicians who.

986
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: Could do slight a hand and teach this guy, like

987
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: he would recruit people who knew how to do this stuff.

988
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 5: And and give them a chance, and they made us

989
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 5: better at it.

990
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: And he created that whole culture that we still have

991
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: today in special forces and in the CIA and another

992
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 1: intelligence agency, which is like, get the job done, now,

993
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: get it done with integrity for your own country. But

994
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: do you got to do get do the mission when

995
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:34,240
Speaker 1: you're out in the field.

996
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

997
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 3: It's like that show Catch Me if you Can with

998
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 3: Leonardo DiCaprio and Tom Hanks. You know, no spoilers here,

999
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 3: but if you haven't seen it. Towards the end, they're like, well,

1000
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 3: we want to work, We want to hire you. You know,

1001
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 3: you know how to do all these checks.

1002
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 4: We need you, or.

1003
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 3: Like, you know the people that worked at the Pentagon

1004
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 3: that made a fake parking pass because they got tired

1005
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 3: of walking so far away to the Pentagon, so they

1006
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: made a pass and they were just getting away with

1007
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 3: like parking in the animals parking or something like that.

1008
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 3: And then one day someone's like, how come this guy

1009
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 3: keep parking here?

1010
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 4: And they said where'd you get this pass?

1011
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 3: And he's like, ah, I guess I made it, And

1012
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 3: they're like can you make more?

1013
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1014
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 4: Can you make more. You see.

1015
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 3: He's like, oh, yeah, no problem, no problem, you know, okay, cool, Yeah,

1016
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 3: The Dirty Dozen was you know, a good movie, right,

1017
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 3: I need these guys do this job.

1018
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think that's exactly right.

1019
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: And there's a place for those people still, you know,

1020
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: in the intelligence world for doing that, for creating cover

1021
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: documents and things like that still has to get done.

1022
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 5: We still need devious people.

1023
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: Who are good at something and obsessed oftentimes obsessed with it,

1024
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 1: like this is what they love doing, and you get

1025
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: to do it. I mean it's just the coolest job ever.

1026
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 1: Like you get to do these things and you're somebody like.

1027
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 4: Me, cool job.

1028
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 5: I love to live abroad, I love to travel.

1029
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: I love the idea of doing operations, figuring out heart problems,

1030
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 1: and you get to go do that every day.

1031
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:04,440
Speaker 4: You know.

1032
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: The dirty secret is you spend still half your time

1033
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 1: doing paperwork like every other job, but like for that

1034
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: other half when you're out in the field.

1035
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:12,280
Speaker 5: It's it's amazing.

1036
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: And there are people who do that in technology and

1037
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,439
Speaker 1: all sorts of things, and it's like, you know, look,

1038
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: you could go make software at any company in this

1039
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: country if you're a great software developer or you have

1040
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: a degree in math or something.

1041
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 5: You know, you could be making.

1042
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: Ad tech that sells more, you know, widgets to people,

1043
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 1: or you could go work at the NSA or the

1044
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: CIA Ordia or any of these agencies and you could

1045
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: be making software. But you're doing it for a higher cause.

1046
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 1: And trust me, it's going to be way more interesting

1047
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,879
Speaker 1: than making software that sells more widgets, just.

1048
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 4: An analyst, quote unquote.

1049
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 3: Now, listen, you've been a great guest on the show,

1050
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 3: going back and forth just all about the spy game

1051
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 3: and talking about just your book, you know, and I

1052
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 3: want to just read iterate that. You know, Anthony Vincey,

1053
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 3: who is here with us today, is the author of

1054
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 3: the book The Fourth Intelligence Revolution, The Future of Espionage

1055
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 3: and the Battle to Save America. So I want to

1056
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 3: plug that again and make sure that that gets said.

1057
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:14,240
Speaker 4: Clearly out here.

1058
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 3: You know, you've put time and thought into writing this

1059
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 3: and having it out there, you know, so make sure

1060
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 3: that if you do pick up Anthony's book, that if

1061
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 3: you buy it online, then you leave a review where

1062
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 3: you buy it when you've picked it up, put down

1063
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 3: a great book or you know what I could have

1064
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 3: done this better or whatever, just put it in the comments,

1065
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 3: so that way, you know, I'm sure he'll check it

1066
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 3: out or you know, everybody that's involved with the book,

1067
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: and it's a good thing.

1068
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 4: To do for the author. That way they get some feedback.

1069
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 3: So my big push is just to leave comments where

1070
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 3: they buy their book, and if they can't buy it local,

1071
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 3: then buy it wherever they can. That's my first that's

1072
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 3: my other thing. And with that said, we've had you

1073
00:53:56,320 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 3: for just about an hour. You have served our You've

1074
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 3: gone into different places that I probably don't want to

1075
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 3: think about, and so thanks for doing that, Thanks for

1076
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 3: figuring things out, Thanks for being OCD about whatever it

1077
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 3: is that you're passionate about that. You know, the agency

1078
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,560
Speaker 3: loves you to have your gig and to write your book.

1079
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 3: So you know, I know you're a PhD and I

1080
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: didn't want to call you a doctor, so I'm not

1081
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 3: going to call you a doctor. But a PhD is

1082
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 3: pretty badass, bro, And I just want to let you

1083
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 3: know that, you know, congratulations on that, And if you

1084
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 3: ever want to be back on SOFTWAREP Radio with me,

1085
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 3: you know you have an open platform to talk about

1086
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 3: your book further or any stories else that we may

1087
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 3: not have even touched. Base on that you want to

1088
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 3: talk about, you can bring it to light here. I

1089
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 3: just want to let you know you have an open

1090
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 3: door here at Software Radio.

1091
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: Thank thanks so much, thanks for having me on, and

1092
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: thanks for what you do. You know, it's important to

1093
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: get these stories out there, and it means a lot

1094
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: to people, especially you know, young people are trying to

1095
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: figure out what to do with their lives, and so

1096
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: I appreciate what you do.

1097
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 4: So thank you well, thank you so much, Thank you

1098
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:00,959
Speaker 4: so much.

1099
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 3: And with that said, and behalf on, behalf of Anthony

1100
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 3: and my team here at soft REAP and Brandon Webb

1101
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:08,800
Speaker 3: and everybody.

1102
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 4: Who has helped support me, be on this and be

1103
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 4: the host.

1104
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 3: I want to say thank you and to everyone out

1105
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:17,240
Speaker 3: there that listens and comments and reaches out to emails,

1106
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 3: continue to do so. I love to get that information

1107
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 3: and I digest it and then who knows what I

1108
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 3: do with it next I might call you out. So

1109
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 3: with that said, be kind to somebody. Watch what you're downloading,

1110
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 3: watch what you're uploading, be aware at all times, and

1111
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 3: from all of us here at softwarep this is RAT

1112
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 3: say in peace.

1113
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 2: You've been listening to self. Rep Ladi