Speaker 1: We as human beings have the capability to be sacred
Speaker 1: individuals who can elevate ourselves to to do angelic things,
Speaker 1: to do kindness beyond you know what is we can imagine.
Speaker 1: But we're also capable of brutality that we can we
Speaker 1: can't even imagine. Welcome to more than a movie American Me,
Speaker 1: a podcast that digs into the history and mystery of
Speaker 1: American Me, a film directed by and starring Edward James
Speaker 1: almost that had a huge impact on Latino cinema and culture.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Alex Fumeto, and I'll be diving into
Speaker 1: the behind the scenes controversy every episode. I'm gonna try
Speaker 1: to peel back a layer of the story by trying
Speaker 1: to go deeper into the intentions and motives behind the
Speaker 1: film and the backlash thirty years later. On today's episode,
Speaker 1: we're talking about actor Sal Lopez, who plays Montoya's father
Speaker 1: Pedro in the film. Sal Lopez always fantasized about becoming
Speaker 1: an actor, even before he knew what it meant. He'd
Speaker 1: eventually go on to star in movies like Full Metal
Speaker 1: Jacket and Selena and TV shows like Barry, Queen of
Speaker 1: the South, The Shield, An NYPD Blue and for the gamers,
Speaker 1: you've heard his voice in Grand Theft, Auto and Red Dead, Redemption.
Speaker 1: But amongst Latinos in Hollywood, he's also well known as
Speaker 1: a founding member of Latino Theater Company, which developed the
Speaker 1: careers of many big screen talents like actress Lupe and
Speaker 1: Divedo's of Selena and playwrights Rivera Who This of Motorcycle
Speaker 1: Diaries and In The Heights, respectively. It's where our episode
Speaker 1: two guests, Raphael Augustine got his first professional experience that
Speaker 1: led him to meet and eventually work with Edward James Almost.
Speaker 1: It's definitely a big reason Sal Lopez ended up playing
Speaker 1: Montoya Santana's father in American Me. That crew of regulars
Speaker 1: that the Puppets mentioned in their episode that surrounded Edward
Speaker 1: James almost, Sal was one of them. I was raised
Speaker 1: here in Los Angeles SS centrally, uh, you know, in
Speaker 1: the Florence area, and I never really uh, I mean,
Speaker 1: I fantasized about acting. I loved going to the movies,
Speaker 1: I mean, I just loved it. He loved going to
Speaker 1: the movies, spending like fifty cents on a ticket, a
Speaker 1: quarter for five candy bars and basically just dream. He
Speaker 1: saw all kinds of movies with his family, especially Spanish
Speaker 1: language ones, but he was most inspired by the epics.
Speaker 1: And I must have been like eight years old and
Speaker 1: we went to go see Jason and the Argonauts. They
Speaker 1: had me at the Jason and the Argonauts. Like we've
Speaker 1: heard from Jacob Vargas and pretty much everybody else on
Speaker 1: this podcast, a career in Hollywood wasn't an obvious choice
Speaker 1: for Salopez either, even for a kid who grew up
Speaker 1: in l A. His mom was a homemaker and his
Speaker 1: father was a shipping clerk at a furniture store, both
Speaker 1: immigrants from Mexico and also like Jacob Vargas, Sal's way
Speaker 1: into entertainment started with dance, in his case by Lefloudico
Speaker 1: or Mexican folk dance. Eventually, some of his dance friends,
Speaker 1: including a girl he liked, encouraged him to come audition
Speaker 1: for this play that was about Chicano's. Like him, sal
Speaker 1: had no idea about acting. I had no idea. You know.
Speaker 1: I saw people you're going over their lines in the
Speaker 1: in the parking lot, and uh, and I said to
Speaker 1: my wife and girlfriend, then a friend friend, I said,
Speaker 1: look at that. Look at those guys talking to themselves
Speaker 1: in the parking lot, and she says, that's nothing. There's
Speaker 1: girls in the bathroom and they're crying. But they were
Speaker 1: going over their scenes, you know. But what did I know?
Speaker 1: But this play was written in a kind of Chicano
Speaker 1: slang that Sal had grown up with. I didn't have
Speaker 1: to pretend, you know, I knew what it was, and
Speaker 1: so I did it. And the director said, oh, you'll
Speaker 1: learn the play was called zoot Suit. I'm guessing you
Speaker 1: guys are seeing a pattern here. Edward James almost first
Speaker 1: leading role zoot Suit. Danny de la Pass and Daniel
Speaker 1: Vierrel both decided to pursue acting because they saw zoot Suit,
Speaker 1: probably this very production actually, and now Sal's career as
Speaker 1: an actor is starting with zoot Suit. Why does that matter?
Speaker 1: Because that play is about the same things as American
Speaker 1: means about. Essentially, an American mean doesn't exist without it.
Speaker 1: Sal's even in a scene at the beginning of the
Speaker 1: movie that takes place during the zoot Suit rights, you
Speaker 1: got a problem being on the streets. Where are your colors?
Speaker 1: Where are you? Who knows of Edward James almost even
Speaker 1: becomes as obsessed with doing Latino themed work if he
Speaker 1: hadn't started his career with such an overtly political and
Speaker 1: rassa oriented piece like zoot Suit. So anyway, sal continues
Speaker 1: doing plays and movies and hanging out in the Chicano
Speaker 1: theater scene, becoming something of a fixture. He does this
Speaker 1: movie version of zoot Suit, which leads to a bunch
Speaker 1: of guest spots on legendary TV shows like Different Strokes, Chips,
Speaker 1: Hill Street Blues five. He co founds the Latino Theater Company.
Speaker 1: In eight seven, he's casting Full Metal Jacket. So by
Speaker 1: the time casting began for American Me sells on everybody's list.
Speaker 1: But career wise, things have begun slowing down for him.
Speaker 1: I actually auditioned for Taylor Hackford's film First Blood and
Speaker 1: Blood out right right, and uh, I audition for for
Speaker 1: one of the main roles, and I didn't get it,
Speaker 1: and then they offered me a smaller role. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, at the time, actually I really needed the job.
Speaker 1: Actually I was, I was, you know, and it had
Speaker 1: been a dry spell and I really needed the job,
Speaker 1: and but I just didn't. I didn't, you know, I
Speaker 1: felt like, wow, you know, they're gonna offered me this
Speaker 1: instead of, you know, one of these more substant I
Speaker 1: really felt like anyway you're saying, Hollywood at the time
Speaker 1: was not just there wasn't an abundance of roles for
Speaker 1: Latino actors at the time. That's shocking. Times they're changing.
Speaker 1: I think they are, I really do. But uh so, anyway,
Speaker 1: you know, as Destiny would have and I did turn
Speaker 1: that down, and and then Eddies his screenplay, they had
Speaker 1: a table read and they invited me to be part
Speaker 1: of that, and uh that was that was how I
Speaker 1: got got involved with that. It was it was a
Speaker 1: great experience on that the whole casting thing for me
Speaker 1: because I was going to play his father, and you know,
Speaker 1: I was a young man back then, a very young
Speaker 1: and I thought, well, how how are we going to
Speaker 1: do this? So they because I feel like Edward James
Speaker 1: almost has looked forty five since he was fifteen years
Speaker 1: that you're right, You're right in the movie where it's
Speaker 1: like him and his little brother, and I'm like, that's
Speaker 1: your son, right, like that's you And he's not that
Speaker 1: old in the movie. You know, he just has that gravitas.
Speaker 1: That's true, true, true, But they brought in an older
Speaker 1: actors to play you know, his dad as an older
Speaker 1: as an older and they we had the screen tests
Speaker 1: and it was really Uh, it was interesting because we
Speaker 1: all screen tested at the same time, the older actors
Speaker 1: and me as a young man. Then they put some
Speaker 1: you know, superficial makeup and uh and after the auditions, Uh,
Speaker 1: they said, now we're just gonna have Sell do it
Speaker 1: and we're gonna put makeup on him. And that's how
Speaker 1: how it ended up happening to me and makes sense
Speaker 1: in the movie. Like I never once stopped in the
Speaker 1: movie and said, this is weird. The guys too young
Speaker 1: to because the point is he's not born yet, right,
Speaker 1: and that's a critical kind of like twist. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: in the beginning of the beginning of the movie. Right. Um,
Speaker 1: so there's like, uh, you're you know, you fit that.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's easier to age you up than
Speaker 1: have someone Look, it wasn't that easy, No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1: What did you have to do? Well? First, so how
Speaker 1: old were you? Oh gosh, I must have been in
Speaker 1: my early early thirties, I think when I did it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh, they well, Kindias who's an you know, Oscar
Speaker 1: nominated makeup artist. He was he was the head makeup guy,
Speaker 1: and uh, we did the first time we put on
Speaker 1: the makeup, it took fifteen hours in the chair. In
Speaker 1: the chair, yeah, fifteen hours. They did a whole cast
Speaker 1: of my head and my face and the whole thing.
Speaker 1: So any way, the first time they applied it, because
Speaker 1: you know, all the press prosthetics, it it took a
Speaker 1: long long time. I mean, it always takes time, you know,
Speaker 1: but this was I can't believe they used the prosthetics.
Speaker 1: That's like so involved. Well they had to because you know,
Speaker 1: I really needed to age. And what happened was because
Speaker 1: they put on so much makeup the first time, we
Speaker 1: couldn't do close ups on me. It was just the
Speaker 1: prosthetics just looked too artificial. And then we had to
Speaker 1: um taper it down and make it look more natural,
Speaker 1: and we finally got it right after a few times
Speaker 1: and it was less time, you know. But the table
Speaker 1: read was really great because most of the actors that
Speaker 1: were in the film were in the table read, and
Speaker 1: Eddie was was really passionate about the project, and it
Speaker 1: was I just, you know, I just admire him so
Speaker 1: much because he had a vision and he was able
Speaker 1: to just create that vision that he wanted and really
Speaker 1: take the reins and be a leader and take this on.
Speaker 1: You know, it was it was pretty major. He never
Speaker 1: directed before, not that I know of, no, no, but yeah,
Speaker 1: and he was great. He was great as as because
Speaker 1: you know, he was an actor, so so it was
Speaker 1: I remember his favorite phrase was just throw it away,
Speaker 1: Just throw it away. I mean it was very it
Speaker 1: isn't an exceptionally naturally acted film. There's just I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, like some of the I was almost like
Speaker 1: our art did he just find real people? You know
Speaker 1: at certain times, but then when you look at the credits,
Speaker 1: you're like, no, these are actors who are just they're
Speaker 1: just killing it. You know. There were a few young
Speaker 1: who were not, but you know they were right. They
Speaker 1: were right for the parts. So it worked. Do you
Speaker 1: remember your first day on on set? I do remember, No, No,
Speaker 1: I do remember the first day on set. That was
Speaker 1: the first day on set. Was the fifteen hour thing,
Speaker 1: right right right, that was and it took all day
Speaker 1: and then we shot that night and it's the first
Speaker 1: time that Eddie sees his dad once he's out of
Speaker 1: the joint, you know, And that was the first thing
Speaker 1: we shot. The scene Cells talking about is one where
Speaker 1: Santana SE's is a strange father pedro outside of a
Speaker 1: wedding party on the street. There's a lot of weighted silences.
Speaker 1: Then Santana asks mL sant got home a couple of
Speaker 1: hours ago. I don't know if it bothers you. Almost
Speaker 1: day coming up, we'll hear more about sales experiences on
Speaker 1: set with Edward James almost and his reaction when he
Speaker 1: heard about the murders. Welcome back to More Than a Movie.
Speaker 1: I'm Alex Fumeto and we're talking to actor Sal Lopez.
Speaker 1: Sal's about to tell us what it was like to
Speaker 1: just be a regular kid from l A who's suddenly
Speaker 1: acting in movies. But they tell you. One of the
Speaker 1: things that was really cool that happened to me was
Speaker 1: that was on the you know, Universal Lot, and I'm
Speaker 1: walking on you know, the Universal Lot, and of course
Speaker 1: I had been there, you know, for the Universal Studios tour,
Speaker 1: and suddenly this one of the tour busses come by,
Speaker 1: you know, to or whatever, and it's full of tourists
Speaker 1: and I'm like, wow, I'm in the lot and look
Speaker 1: at these people. And then somebody in the tour bus
Speaker 1: goes hey, sal like hey, and it was someone I
Speaker 1: knew they were on the tour. You know, I love it.
Speaker 1: I was so cool. It was like, what are you
Speaker 1: doing here? I said, I'm doing a movie here, So yeah,
Speaker 1: that was amazing. It's something that doesn't really happen to
Speaker 1: a lot of actors in Hollywood, being recognized not because
Speaker 1: you're famous or somebody saw you on TV, but because
Speaker 1: you're just a dude for the neighborhood. We forget sometimes
Speaker 1: that l A is an industry town. What Pittsburgh was
Speaker 1: for steel, or Miami was for well cocaine, Los Angeles
Speaker 1: is for entertainment. The only difference is that regular working
Speaker 1: class people from those cities get jobs working for the
Speaker 1: town mill or at a bank laundering money for Pablo Escobar,
Speaker 1: as the case may be. But in l A, if
Speaker 1: you're a regular working class Latino kid, you're not just
Speaker 1: knocking on the doors of Universal Studio asking for a gig.
Speaker 1: That creates this really unique situation where the actors involved
Speaker 1: in American Men have a lived experience of life on
Speaker 1: the streets of l A, including gangs that you wouldn't
Speaker 1: get with many other kinds of movies. Here's sal again. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean I grew up in south central l A.
Speaker 1: So I was. I mean, it's that was nothing foreign
Speaker 1: to me. It was it was something that I that
Speaker 1: I saw that I can't say I was in a
Speaker 1: gang personally, but people very close to me were. And uh,
Speaker 1: so I knew that life. And you know it's complicated,
Speaker 1: right because these things go back many, many years, and
Speaker 1: it's a culture. So I mean it's also something that's
Speaker 1: you know, it's a cancer in our community. It's something
Speaker 1: that you know, it's an issue, right that we have
Speaker 1: to deal with and that we that is in our
Speaker 1: community like it is in many other communities. Is that
Speaker 1: something that you knew I've heard, We've heard from several
Speaker 1: people we interviewed, Uh, the Danny's, the Puppets, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: uh and you know they were talking to us, as
Speaker 1: was Antonette Levine and some other folks about you know,
Speaker 1: it's just like from day one, Edward James almost was
Speaker 1: like on a mission. And it wasn't just to make
Speaker 1: a great movie. It was absolutely it was to spread
Speaker 1: a message, absolutely, And was that evident to you? It
Speaker 1: was certainly evident when I walked out of that screening.
Speaker 1: When I first saw it, I think I was just
Speaker 1: in shock. I was just so moved, and so I
Speaker 1: thought it was such a powerful film. I think it's
Speaker 1: he did what he wanted to do. I mean, we're
Speaker 1: seducted by the glamour. But at the same time, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the consequences are evident, and and I think
Speaker 1: it spoke to to our community strongly and directly, because
Speaker 1: in some ways, you know, people people might say, well,
Speaker 1: here we go again. You're just exploiting you know, our
Speaker 1: our people, and here we are again portraying gang bangers
Speaker 1: on the screen, even though the intention was precisely, seemingly
Speaker 1: the opposite, not to glorify, correct. I think, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: I mean look at The Godfather. I mean The Godfather.
Speaker 1: It's a movie that you could say, yeah, it paints
Speaker 1: Italians in a bad light, but but it's really about
Speaker 1: a family, right. It's about immigrants, about a family and
Speaker 1: who who uh, And it also does not shy away
Speaker 1: from the consequences of of living that life. The Godfather
Speaker 1: is a good comp for American me in more ways
Speaker 1: than one. Some Italian Americans were upset being portrayed as gangsters,
Speaker 1: As sal points out, American me in fact, has a
Speaker 1: few Godfather references in it. There's a scene where an
Speaker 1: Italian guy in a hat his gardening, just like Veto
Speaker 1: and his tomatoes. There's a scene where Santana learns to
Speaker 1: drive that's basically the opposite of the scene where Michael
Speaker 1: shows Apollonia how to drive. Shure, you never didn't be okay,
Speaker 1: why did it do that? It does that because you
Speaker 1: got it, like let the clutch out and and push
Speaker 1: the gas in at the same time. And by all accounts,
Speaker 1: members of the Italian Mafia were also not happy with
Speaker 1: the way they were portrayed in the film. Crime Boss
Speaker 1: Joe Colombo, through his political front, the Italian American League,
Speaker 1: very publicly opposed the film until they reached a compromise
Speaker 1: with producers to have the word mafia removed from the
Speaker 1: movie altogether. The League succeeded in eliminating the words mafia
Speaker 1: and cosin Nostra from the film, being made from the
Speaker 1: best selling novel The Godfather. Joe Colombo was a famous
Speaker 1: fellow who walked into Charlie Bluedoins office and says, we
Speaker 1: don't wanna shadow mafia mentioned all, and Charlie good Art
Speaker 1: as well, Boy, whatever do you want, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: glad to prove it up. But unlike The Godfather, Edward
Speaker 1: James Almost decided to base his film on a real
Speaker 1: gang and recognizable figures, even with their names changed, something
Speaker 1: several people warned Almost was a bad idea. The cor
Speaker 1: Ley Owed family was fictional. M it was not. In fact,
Speaker 1: they were so real that Almost had to give his
Speaker 1: casting crew and out before asking them to shooting fulsome
Speaker 1: prison or gang territory and boil Heights. So I asked
Speaker 1: Sal whether he ever felt in danger while making the movie. Well,
Speaker 1: I was not in the scenes, and folsome my sure,
Speaker 1: I had nothing. I didn't really had to deal with
Speaker 1: that aspect of it. But you were in you were
Speaker 1: in like Ramona Gardens. Yeah, and the places that I
Speaker 1: that that I was involved with, I really didn't uh
Speaker 1: interact with the real life you know, cons and all
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um and uh you know it's
Speaker 1: it's I didn't. It was not on my radar. Let
Speaker 1: me just put it that way, um. I I I
Speaker 1: read the script. In the script for me was what
Speaker 1: he wanted to present and that my job was to
Speaker 1: do my part. And I didn't feel ah, you know,
Speaker 1: intimidated or or anything like that. I mean, I was
Speaker 1: focused on doing the work and and uh and and
Speaker 1: making a good film. I um, and I think that
Speaker 1: you know, uh everything else. I mean, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't want to speak about Yeah, yeah, I understand, I understand.
Speaker 1: I mean, I get it sounds a professional. He's also
Speaker 1: friends with almost and like pretty much everybody else on
Speaker 1: this movie. You didn't want to get into the ugly parts.
Speaker 1: But I mean you can hear the trepidation and tension
Speaker 1: in his answer and probably my response, because sitting in
Speaker 1: a room with him, I could tell this was very
Speaker 1: uncomfortable territory. It also was part of his experience on
Speaker 1: that set, he claims, and I take him at his word.
Speaker 1: After the break, I try to shift gears a little bit.
Speaker 1: I asked Sal about a bunch of Chicanos from East
Speaker 1: l A taking over Leazu, the French riviera, Cerdany's Shoes
Speaker 1: Canoe Devonvon Welcome back to More Than a Movie. I'm
Speaker 1: Alex Fumeto and we're talking to actor Sal Lopez. Con Yeah,
Speaker 1: what was it like? Like what was it like to
Speaker 1: be there? To be there with your fellow It was
Speaker 1: pretty magic. Snakes Yeah, it was pretty magical. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, here we are on the other side of
Speaker 1: the world, and uh, I remember walking the the you know,
Speaker 1: the gauntlet of reporters, of of you know, of paparazzi
Speaker 1: going up to the to the day of the screen
Speaker 1: and uh it's Danny Evelina, myself and Eddie and Bobby
Speaker 1: who was the producer and who had been there before.
Speaker 1: I mean he was he was an awardee of the
Speaker 1: Palm Dior for for a film several years earlier, a Lambrista.
Speaker 1: And so anyway, so we're there and and we start
Speaker 1: to I'm assuming, you know, Eddie's Eddie's gonna walk ahead
Speaker 1: and you know, and we're gonna walk behind him. But
Speaker 1: he didn't do that. He didn't do that. He honored
Speaker 1: us all to be arm in arm and walked together.
Speaker 1: It was pretty remarkable, you know that he wanted to
Speaker 1: share that with us. He I'm still aghast of it,
Speaker 1: but it was and it was the most unbelievable feeling.
Speaker 1: We were walking through this on this red carpet and
Speaker 1: as I said, I mean there's hundreds, literally hundreds of
Speaker 1: paparazzi on both sides, and security and everything and it
Speaker 1: was an amazing, amazing feeling, and you know, for a
Speaker 1: kid from South exactly, and all these people are screaming Eddie, Eddie, Eddie,
Speaker 1: you know, Eddie, and the and the sound of the
Speaker 1: flashing cameras because there was cameras back then, right, it's
Speaker 1: just like an amazing sound when you're hearing so many
Speaker 1: going off at this you know, it's just like you know,
Speaker 1: and the flashes, and it's just pretty amazing. So we
Speaker 1: walked this gauntlet, right, and it felt like a hundred yards,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure it wasn't that long. But finally we
Speaker 1: get to the stairs right before we go in the theater.
Speaker 1: And as we're going up the stairs, they're playing the
Speaker 1: music and it's it's a O Yeko mobile from Santana,
Speaker 1: and it's just like something out of a movie itself.
Speaker 1: You know, that moment was something out of a movie.
Speaker 1: And then we turn around, right, we all turn around.
Speaker 1: It's almost like slow motion and the music plain you know,
Speaker 1: bump bump, bump, bump, bump, bump bump, and it was
Speaker 1: just it was magical. It was magical. And do you
Speaker 1: remember the reception the film got there? Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think you know, uh, I think Eddie should have
Speaker 1: won hands down for whatever you know, political political reasons.
Speaker 1: I'm sure whatever you know that exists everywhere, but there's
Speaker 1: there's no doubt. I mean, look look at the film.
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's a it's still holds up, it's
Speaker 1: still seen, it's still respected. It's a should have one,
Speaker 1: I would say more so, right, Like that's one of
Speaker 1: the things about American means that it's become like a cult,
Speaker 1: classic staple for Yeah. When I talked to you, like
Speaker 1: friends my age and younger here who grew up in
Speaker 1: l A, They're like, oh, yeah, they know every character,
Speaker 1: they have every scene. Yeah, one one or what I
Speaker 1: mean to say is he should have won. He should
Speaker 1: have won for first time director of course, Yeah, which
Speaker 1: was that's what he was nominated for. Anecdote that we
Speaker 1: uh heard um from Danny when we were talking to
Speaker 1: him about Cohn was it. He recalls that as being
Speaker 1: the place where he found out about an Oh that's right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we did get that those the news then, Yeah, how
Speaker 1: did that? How did you take that? Well? It was sad,
Speaker 1: you know what can it was? It was sad? What
Speaker 1: can I tell you? It was alarming. Yeah. Do you
Speaker 1: remember how how it came how you came to find
Speaker 1: out there? Yeah, we were sitting in the cinema and
Speaker 1: they came in and notified us in the movie. Yeah wow. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Did you know Anna well from them? No, just just
Speaker 1: just from the film. I didn't really know her, no,
Speaker 1: h but you know it was Yeah, it was unfortunate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we we touched on it a little bit.
Speaker 1: But any part of that reaction going, is it gonna
Speaker 1: get Is it gonna get weird for me when I
Speaker 1: go back? Um? I mean not really. I didn't. I
Speaker 1: was not involved in that world, so I didn't think
Speaker 1: my head it would affect me, you know, right, So
Speaker 1: you don't, I take it you don't give much credence
Speaker 1: the idea that the film had anything to do with her.
Speaker 1: I don't know. You don't know, right, I mean, to
Speaker 1: be honest, neither do I, which is why you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know the other the other the other thing
Speaker 1: with this podcast is trying to you know, there was
Speaker 1: this whole Danny. There's a lot of Danny's involved in this.
Speaker 1: By the way, there was a Danny trejo Um autobiography
Speaker 1: and g Q story and It's got on a few
Speaker 1: podcasts and sort of told this version of his experience
Speaker 1: with American me um and and his kind of claim
Speaker 1: that due to his knowledge and association of some of
Speaker 1: the people that this was based off of, that up
Speaker 1: to people may have been killed in connection with the
Speaker 1: making of the film. It's retribution for some sort of participation,
Speaker 1: and that Lisaga certainly was like as a consultant on
Speaker 1: the film, was that that was part of the result.
Speaker 1: So part of what we're trying to do here is
Speaker 1: also piece together how much of that is true and
Speaker 1: how much of it isn't and whether you can and
Speaker 1: I think more importantly the why if it is right? Like,
Speaker 1: what is it about this movie that's so powerful for
Speaker 1: lack of a better word, that could elicit potentially a
Speaker 1: response like that from the people that it was based on. Um,
Speaker 1: I just worked with Danny. We just did a moving Oklahoma. Actually,
Speaker 1: Oh nice? Um, you know, I don't know. Uh, you
Speaker 1: probably would have to ask him. I have no idea
Speaker 1: who asked Annie. Yeah. I'm less interested in the who
Speaker 1: done it aspect of it, and I'm more interested in
Speaker 1: the I had done it. I'll give you an example.
Speaker 1: I look at the scenes that depict sexual violence, and
Speaker 1: there's obviously You're in a very prominent scene at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the movie in the US, right, But then
Speaker 1: we have this scene shortly after where Santana's character is
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted in juvenile hall. According to Trejo, that was
Speaker 1: part of the impetus for why Lama was so upset
Speaker 1: that this idea that someone who would become the boss
Speaker 1: of a gang can never have become a leader in
Speaker 1: one of these gangs. Had that happened to you, Um?
Speaker 1: And certainly I've even heard that part of like kind
Speaker 1: of the code of the rules of of the maximum mafia,
Speaker 1: like homosexuality is like is looked down upon. But even
Speaker 1: outside of gang life, I feel like machismo and homophobia
Speaker 1: have played a pretty big role in Latino culture as
Speaker 1: a whole. How do you feel those elements of sexual
Speaker 1: assault should have been taken by the audience as a whole? Um,
Speaker 1: knowing that some of the target audience are folks within
Speaker 1: this community that have these kind of machis done homophobic
Speaker 1: Uh points of view, how is that intended to come across?
Speaker 1: Do you think? I think it's the brutality of prison
Speaker 1: and the brutality of being in that world. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: not based on fact, I don't know, but certainly you
Speaker 1: know in film it's not real. You you say it's
Speaker 1: based on a true story because you're able to take
Speaker 1: uh licenses and create because you want to make a point.
Speaker 1: You want to create drama, you want to have an impact,
Speaker 1: you want to shock the audience, you want to make
Speaker 1: them think. You want, you know, to create a film
Speaker 1: that's going to be memorable, scenes that are going to
Speaker 1: be shocking and and and memorable, etcetera. So it's done
Speaker 1: all the time where you know, you see things, well
Speaker 1: you say, well this this did not happen. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: may or may not have happened, but it it leaves
Speaker 1: you with It serves the purpose, which is too uh
Speaker 1: to show you the brutality of the life and how
Speaker 1: we as human beings have the capability to uh be sacred,
Speaker 1: be sacred individuals who can elevate ourselves to you know, angelic,
Speaker 1: to do angelic things, to do kindness beyond you know
Speaker 1: what is we can imagine, but we're also capable of
Speaker 1: brutality that we can we can't even imagine. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: truly love sal Lopez for this answer, the dude is
Speaker 1: not only profound, he got to the heart of my question,
Speaker 1: which was less about the sensationalized aspect of the story
Speaker 1: and more about the human side. And that dichotomy and
Speaker 1: contradiction of angelic things and brutality speaks to me of
Speaker 1: the humanity of not only the characters involved in the movie.
Speaker 1: Have they done harmful things? I don't think they'd even
Speaker 1: deny that. But are they monsters? I don't think so.
Speaker 1: It's the problem of a movie like American Me that
Speaker 1: wants to demonize a lifestyle but also does such a
Speaker 1: good job in humanizing the characters it ultimately draws viewers
Speaker 1: to them as much or more than it puts them
Speaker 1: off the life path. What were the responses that you
Speaker 1: personally got from, like the people that you grew up
Speaker 1: with about this movie. Well, uh, one of my brothers was,
Speaker 1: you know, was a little bit involved in the life
Speaker 1: for a little bit of time, and uh, heat to
Speaker 1: this stage is loves that movie. Okay, he loves the movie.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't think that was the intention the film,
Speaker 1: but I mean I mean that I think what he
Speaker 1: likes about it is that, uh, it portrays the life
Speaker 1: in the aspects of that life that are that are
Speaker 1: true and so I think and the takeaways from that
Speaker 1: life as well, And I think that says a lot.
Speaker 1: It's the stamp of approval for me, and the fact
Speaker 1: that you know, there are still so many, as you say,
Speaker 1: people who follow the film who are the next generation
Speaker 1: is rediscovering this film. It stands the you know, the
Speaker 1: test of time. In a way, it's good, but in
Speaker 1: a way it's it's unfortunate because it's still relevant and
Speaker 1: so uh, I think there's a you know, ambivalence there
Speaker 1: for me. On the next episode, I'm speaking to Milton Grimes,
Speaker 1: attorney for Mexican Mafia member Joe Morgan, who is the
Speaker 1: basis for the character j D in American May. He
Speaker 1: had to go into seclusion because there was alleged threat
Speaker 1: on his life. A couple of people were killed because
Speaker 1: of the production of that movie, depicting Joe Borgan in
Speaker 1: a non complementary fashion or saying that certain things happened
Speaker 1: to him that they didn't appreciate it appreciate because it
Speaker 1: challenged his manhood and his sexual preference. So sexuality or
Speaker 1: maybe he was a victim portrayed. That's on the next
Speaker 1: episode of More Than a Movie American Mean. More Than
Speaker 1: a Movie American Mean is a production of Exile Content
Speaker 1: Studios in partnership with I Hearts, Michael da Podcast Network,
Speaker 1: and Trojan Horse Media. The show is produced by me
Speaker 1: Alex Fometto at Angry Yuka on the internets, and our
Speaker 1: senior producer is Nigel dra Our executive producers are Rose Red,
Speaker 1: Nando Vila and Kareem Taps. Production assistance from Sabine Jansen
Speaker 1: and Altabio and Stella Emmett. Mixing and sound designed by
Speaker 1: Water Albornos. Our executive producers at I Heart are Gisel
Speaker 1: Bances and Arlene Santana. For more podcasts, listen to the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. H