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Speaker 1: Welcome to Games of Names.

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Speaker 2: I'm Julian Edelman and we got a brand new compilation

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Speaker 2: highlight reel starting now now.

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Speaker 1: Jim Craig on the Real Miracle on Ice story.

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Speaker 2: How was her pregame like? Was he a speech guy

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Speaker 2: or did he just give you keys? Did he raw

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Speaker 2: you guys up?

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Speaker 3: Never swore?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 5: Extremely prepared, right, I mean in every detail is incredible.

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Speaker 5: But the speech that you hear in the movie Miracle

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Speaker 5: is basically what he did. And he was our confidence,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean. They're you know, they're ripe,

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Speaker 5: they're ready to be beaten. You guys have earned this,

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Speaker 5: you know all the things. But he never said you're

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Speaker 5: gonna win. So it's really interesting in words when you

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Speaker 5: pay attention to what actually is being said. There is

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Speaker 5: a way to beat this team. You guys have the ability,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean, But you're not. This is

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Speaker 5: you're not going to just do this and beat him.

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Speaker 5: You got to execute, you got to do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Wait, so the movie speech is actually fairly.

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Speaker 3: Close, very close? Yes, y wow?

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Speaker 2: Is that is that story where he made you guys

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Speaker 2: run after the skate skate or sorry football guy skate

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Speaker 2: when he had you guys skate after the match.

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Speaker 3: Or Norway game.

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Speaker 1: The Norway game, how many did you do?

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Speaker 3: So the bark is really interesting.

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Speaker 5: This basically talks about trends before they come habit. So

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Speaker 5: herb Brooks has challenged and to just kind of put

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Speaker 5: this in perspectives. Right, they didn't want him to be

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Speaker 5: a coach. They wanted to park Or or Billy Cleary.

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Speaker 5: Uh So he had it convince him to be coach.

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Speaker 5: Then the US Hockey was okay with preparing to compete,

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Speaker 5: not win. And there's a huge difference. So when we

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Speaker 5: talk about underdog vers a winning underdog is either your

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Speaker 5: you know your your. I'll go to companies. When I

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Speaker 5: speak to him, I say, okay, where are we Are

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Speaker 5: you guys preparing to win or compete?

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Speaker 3: Are you looking to be bought? Are you acquiring?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: Because this is one or the other, Right, Jules, we

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Speaker 3: played sixty.

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Speaker 5: One games before the Olympics. No other Olympic team had

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Speaker 5: ever played more than eight. We played forty seven of

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Speaker 5: those sixty one on the road. We did it in

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Speaker 5: four months. The NHL played eighty games in nine right,

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Speaker 5: and so we practiced the day of a game. If

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Speaker 5: he didn't like how we played during the game, we

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Speaker 5: practiced after the game. And it always comes down to

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Speaker 5: the same thing. I always ask people what's the most

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Speaker 5: important thing in time management?

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Speaker 3: What would your answer be?

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Speaker 1: Productivity?

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Speaker 3: It's knowing how much time you have, knowing how much time.

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Speaker 5: You can't be productive unless you know how much time

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Speaker 5: you have. Herb Brooks had six months to get this

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Speaker 5: hockey team ready to beat the greatest team in the world,

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Speaker 5: and so the tactics and the way he did things

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Speaker 5: were based on how much time he had.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 5: So here we are, we're playing the Norwegians. We're playing

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Speaker 5: we're getting killed. As far as the schedule goes, going

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Speaker 5: back and forth. The accommodations we had is you had

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Speaker 5: three guys to a room, two guys go to bed,

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Speaker 5: and one guy didn't. And how that was decided was

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Speaker 5: if you were the smallest guy, you got the cop.

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Speaker 5: Yeah right, you're hanging stuff inside the locker room, you're

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Speaker 5: lugging all your own gear, you're trying to get it clean,

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Speaker 5: you know. So now we're playing a team that we

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Speaker 5: think we're better than that, and so we play.

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Speaker 3: Don't take it really that serious. We tie it.

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Speaker 5: The trend is Brooks knows we're going to play in

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Speaker 5: the Olympics. It's going to be the same thing. The

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Speaker 5: Olympics back then wasn't set up so for television.

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Speaker 3: It was the real Olympics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, so.

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Speaker 5: It was how many goals for, how many goals against?

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Speaker 5: You know, and everything was metric.

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Speaker 2: You guys beat the Russian, right, and you could have

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Speaker 2: not placed the next week exactly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Crazy.

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Speaker 5: So Herb says, you know, this is a bad trend.

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Speaker 5: You can't not take anybody nothing. So even though we

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Speaker 5: tied into Rwegians, he knew we were going to play

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Speaker 5: him in the Olympics, and so he stop the trend

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Speaker 5: from becoming a habit. And we skated and skated. But

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Speaker 5: what he was doing that the Miracle Movie didn't really

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Speaker 5: do is one of our best players with a guy

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Speaker 5: named Mark Johnson.

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Speaker 1: Mark Johnson.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and Mark Johnson's dad was an incredible coach.

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Speaker 4: It's a great day for hockey.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, great day for hockey. Right, you know, totally two

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Speaker 5: different personalities. You know, Mark's dad was positivity. Brooks was

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Speaker 5: you know, more toughness, right, And I think Herb wanted

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Speaker 5: to break Mark that day and let him know that

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Speaker 5: his dad wasn't coaching him, so we skated and skated

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Speaker 5: until Mark Johnson slammed his tick against the boards.

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Speaker 3: That's how it really happened.

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Speaker 4: Ye.

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Speaker 5: So you see this o callahan fight versus McClanahan in

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Speaker 5: the movie, right, And if you really watch that clip,

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Speaker 5: you'll see how four or five times that was going

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Speaker 5: to be stopped. But as it plays through, now Brooks

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Speaker 5: knows what he has to do where the problems are right,

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Speaker 5: because if not, people are going to split up and

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Speaker 5: team up and this conflict will continue to go on.

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Speaker 5: So I really think conflict is a really important thing

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Speaker 5: with every team. You know, to let it happen so

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Speaker 5: that you can figure out what goes on.

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Speaker 1: Now, why did herb choose you?

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Speaker 5: I think it's a winning underdog that I don't think

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Speaker 5: he knew how I were.

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Speaker 3: I don't think he knew if I would win in

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Speaker 3: the biggest situations, but he knew I wouldn't be nervous.

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Speaker 1: You didn't take the test.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's a much more complicated thing. So here here's

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Speaker 5: a deal. He has this take home test. It's pretty simple.

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Speaker 5: I'm living with a team doctor doctor Knagabots, and my

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Speaker 5: mother had just passed and so I used to call

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Speaker 5: home every night, checking in with my father, and this

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Speaker 5: one that I called home, he was crying. He still

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Speaker 5: had my mother's clothes in the closet. He had just

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Speaker 5: lost his job, and I felt really guilty about chasing

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Speaker 5: my career and not helping out the family. So, you know,

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Speaker 5: so that night I decided if I don't take the test.

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Speaker 5: I had made a promise to my mother. She said, listen,

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Speaker 5: no matter what happens to me, if you have a

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Speaker 5: chance to represent our country, you have to promise me

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Speaker 5: you will and you won't turn pro So I made

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Speaker 5: that promise, and so all of a sudden, now I say, well,

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Speaker 5: if I don't take this test, her Brooks will send

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Speaker 5: me home and then I'll just.

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Speaker 3: Do whatever that does. Right.

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Speaker 5: But the brilliance of her was I live with a

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Speaker 5: team doctor. The team doctor told her of everything that

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Speaker 5: was going on, and all he cared about is could

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Speaker 5: I do my job? And so, in his own way,

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Speaker 5: he wanted people that would be more interested in the

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Speaker 5: team than themselves. And by showing that, you know, my

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Speaker 5: team was my family, right, and so I think it

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Speaker 5: really showed him a lot.

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Speaker 3: So he asked me a question.

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Speaker 5: It was really interest two questions. He said, Jimmy, what

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Speaker 5: can I do to help? And I said said, well,

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Speaker 5: my father needs a lull. So her worked to the

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Speaker 5: people in Minneapolis to figured out how to get a loan.

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Speaker 5: So that kind of made me feel better. And the

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Speaker 5: second question for your hee says, can you do your job?

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Speaker 5: I said, I can do my job real yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: So taking that test is a little different, but Disney

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Speaker 5: did ask if they could do it the way it

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Speaker 5: did because it kind of fit my character, you know.

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Speaker 1: So next Paul Dissonette breaks down what really starts a

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Speaker 1: hockey fight.

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Speaker 4: At that time, Like there was no social media, so

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Speaker 4: you were getting there was really no way to escape it.

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Speaker 4: You'd get beat up, you'd get on the bus, you'd

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Speaker 4: travel four hours that night to the next city, and

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Speaker 4: you kind of just be sitting there in your seat

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Speaker 4: like half concussed, you know, wondering like, oh my god,

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Speaker 4: I got to do this again tomorrow night.

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Speaker 2: Take us through your journey, your hockey journey. You played

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Speaker 2: twelve years. You battled back and forth from you know,

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Speaker 2: the triple a's to the big I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: If I fucked up the terminology HL.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And so take us through your journey. Yeah, so

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Speaker 4: I was a pretty decent junior player. I was a defenceman.

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Speaker 4: I actually was able to represent my country playing under

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Speaker 4: seventeen for Team Ontario and then under eighteen was Team Canada.

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Speaker 4: I played both of them World Championship, was able to

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Speaker 4: win gold both times. Was drafted by the Pittsburgh Penguins

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Speaker 4: and got in a little bit of trouble early on

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Speaker 4: in my career. Like you go from living with a

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Speaker 4: billet family and junior to all of a sudden, you

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Speaker 4: sign a contract, you have money, you're living on your own,

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Speaker 4: and you know, probably was drinking and partying a little

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Speaker 4: bit too much. So I started off my career and

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Speaker 4: professional in the ECHL, basically the lowest league, and slowly

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Speaker 4: worked my way up and after getting in a little

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Speaker 4: bit more trouble, basically was in the coast and thought

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Speaker 4: my career was over. And then from at that point

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Speaker 4: I was a defenseman and they called me up to

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Speaker 4: the AHL and they said, we're going to make you

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Speaker 4: a fourth line fighter. And I had a decision to

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Speaker 4: make at that point in time whether I wanted to

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Speaker 4: do that or stay st Uburn and stay as a defenseman.

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Speaker 4: And I said you know, fuck it. If this is

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Speaker 4: my only path to maybe get into the NHL, I'll

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Speaker 4: do it. So I started scrapping. I got beat up

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Speaker 4: a lot. I had back to back seasons where I

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Speaker 4: fought thirty times, and guys at that time in the

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Speaker 4: A were taking steroids. I was getting the shit kicked

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Speaker 4: out of myself, and eventually, just from playing that position

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Speaker 4: and sticking at it, I ended up finally making the

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Speaker 4: BIGS with Pittsburgh and I got to play make it unreal.

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Speaker 4: I got to play with Sidney Cross. You have Genny

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Speaker 4: malk and Marc Andre Fleury. You know, just those memories

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Speaker 4: alone were unbelievable, even though I was only there for

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Speaker 4: about twenty twenty six games, played fifteen, and then the

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Speaker 4: following season, I was old enough where I got sent down,

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Speaker 4: but I could get picked up by Waivers, So I

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Speaker 4: got to go over to Phoenix, who put in acclaim

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Speaker 4: for me and played five years there, lived out my dream,

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Speaker 4: ended up starting Twitter when I was there, and that's

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Speaker 4: where the whole social media career started and then ended

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Speaker 4: up finishing off my career in the American League. So

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Speaker 4: I was one of those guys where I was a

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Speaker 4: borderline NHLer, and I was just grateful to be there

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Speaker 4: and was able to play with so many amazing teammates

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Speaker 4: and made so many friends in Arizona, one of which

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Speaker 4: is another Boston guy, keith Yandle who's now on our

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Speaker 4: Spit and Chicklets podcast. But yeah, it was a whirldwin.

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Speaker 4: Grateful to be there and just grateful to transition it

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Speaker 4: into media and stick around the game and also have

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Speaker 4: a purpose after my playing career.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you clearly did that. I mean you

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Speaker 2: still played twelve years at a professional sport. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: then you did something amazing where you didn't just become

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Speaker 2: a Canadian kid that went back to the house and

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Speaker 2: did nothing with no with his life. You did something

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Speaker 2: else and now you're known for something else other than

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Speaker 2: being an athlete.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I'm really cool. Yeah, I'm always interested in more

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Speaker 4: and what life has to offer. So as much as

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Speaker 4: I love my hometown of well In Ontario, I always

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Speaker 4: knew there was more out there and more I wanted

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Speaker 4: to do the same. Reason why at sixteen years old,

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Speaker 4: when I was drafted to junior like, I moved away

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Speaker 4: from home and I lived with the Billet family. I

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Speaker 4: never even called home for the first three weeks while

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Speaker 4: we had training camp and stuff, like I dove right in.

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Speaker 4: I didn't get home stick because I knew that, you know,

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Speaker 4: if you wanted to achieve anything in life, you were

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Speaker 4: going to have to, you know, go outside your comfort

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Speaker 4: zone and do it. And I was also like things

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Speaker 4: happened for a reason too, Like I was in Pittsburgh,

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Speaker 4: which is a you know, a very respected organization, and

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Speaker 4: not to say Arizona wasn't, but Arizona was a team

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Speaker 4: where they didn't mind getting any type of publicity. So

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Speaker 4: I was able to start out a Twitter account and

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Speaker 4: be an absolute donkey online, like with the shit that

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Speaker 4: I was doing and saying and tweeting. I was going

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Speaker 4: on Lake local radio stations and like they hooked me

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Speaker 4: up with this girl, Bibby Jones, So I guess I'm

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Speaker 4: actually Eskimo Brothers with Gronk. I hate to throw them

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Speaker 4: under the bus, but she actually posted a she actually

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Speaker 4: posted a photo of them, and then she asked me

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Speaker 4: for a photo to post and I was like, I

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Speaker 4: don't think I want that smoke, right, And then she

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Speaker 4: went on the local radio the next morning and put

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Speaker 4: me on blast.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, just all what year is this, Oh.

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Speaker 4: This is probably like two thousand and eleven, so the

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Speaker 4: surely early Twitter. So the shit that I was able

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Speaker 4: to get away with and grow my own personal social

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Speaker 4: channels based on playing in Arizona and the fact that

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Speaker 4: they wanted publicity. It just worked out perfectly. And that's

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Speaker 4: kind of what got me my start into the media,

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Speaker 4: where I started getting more opportunities and offers to do

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Speaker 4: these one off videos. And then by the time I retired,

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Speaker 4: I got my buddy here, Pasha, I dove right into it.

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Speaker 4: I did this film project called biz DOSBC. So yeah,

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Speaker 4: is it awkward? And it was, you know, it was

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Speaker 4: very silly at the time, but it taught me a

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Speaker 4: lot about what I needed to know in the backside

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Speaker 4: after retiring. So just a world win of a career

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Speaker 4: in a transition, but wouldn't change it for the world.

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Speaker 1: Fucking it's been fun.

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Speaker 4: Like I didn't have the playing career that you had.

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Speaker 4: I was in the press box, Morgan. I had more

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Speaker 4: healthy scratches in my career than games played.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but still you still may do with what you had.

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Speaker 2: That's it, and that's what you continue to preach when

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Speaker 2: you talk.

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Speaker 4: And it's also a lesson for like a lot of

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Speaker 4: kids out there, like everybody drafted when they're playing junior,

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Speaker 4: were probably the stars of their team, right, But you

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Speaker 4: know at a certain point you're not going to be

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Speaker 4: the star, and you have to make a sacrifice. Are

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Speaker 4: you okay being the fourth line peasant who's getting healthy scratched?

286
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Speaker 4: If you're not willing to put your ego aside, there's

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Speaker 4: other guys who will, and there's positions for those guys.

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Speaker 4: So I'm glad at the time I was able to

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Speaker 4: make that decision. It just kind of happened naturally, like

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Speaker 4: I you know, who knows, maybe going back, if it

291
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Speaker 4: would have happened again it was the wrong day, maybe

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Speaker 4: I would have been stubborn about it, but just grateful

293
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Speaker 4: that that's the path I chose, and I was accepting

294
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Speaker 4: of that and it led to all this.

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Speaker 2: That's what people don't realize is the different ego slots

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Speaker 2: in the locker room for a professional athlete. Being a

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Speaker 2: role player, you have to swallow your pride, do everything,

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Speaker 2: have mental toughness, do what's best for the team, win

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Speaker 2: it may not be best for you, and and and

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Speaker 2: be that role guy and love doing that. The fullback

301
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Speaker 2: going out and blowing out his head every day in practice,

302
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Speaker 2: like knowing that he'll never touch the ball.

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Speaker 1: But that's just like that's a big thing.

304
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Speaker 2: How like talk us through that transition mentally when you

305
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Speaker 2: go from defenseman to fourth line fighter, Like, and how

306
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Speaker 2: does that transition go?

307
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Speaker 1: Did you go to boxing camp or like? How the fuck?

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Speaker 4: So when I even when I was playing junior, I

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Speaker 4: liked handling my own business. Yeah, but that would be

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Speaker 4: about five six times a year, and normally against other

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Speaker 4: guys who were playing more so they weren't like just

312
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Speaker 4: specifically heavyweight scrappers. So it was hard just because I

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Speaker 4: was getting used to fighting these guys who, like some

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Speaker 4: guys were on steroids and they were just a lot

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Speaker 4: more experience, have been doing it since they were kids.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I took boxing lessons in the summertime and

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Speaker 4: prepared as much as possible, but it was hard, and

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Speaker 4: at that time, like there was no social media, so

319
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Speaker 4: you were getting there was really no way to escape it.

320
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Speaker 4: You'd get beat up, you'd get on the bus, you'd

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Speaker 4: travel four hours that night to the next city, and

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Speaker 4: you kind of just be sitting there in your seat

323
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Speaker 4: like half concussed, you know, wondering like, oh my god,

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Speaker 4: I got to do this again tomorrow night. And so

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Speaker 4: it was definitely a transition and a hard process to

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Speaker 4: start to understand. But it just taught me a lot

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Speaker 4: about like adversity and how to deal with that type

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Speaker 4: of stuff and really prepared me for what was to

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Speaker 4: come for after my career. So great life lessons to learn,

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Speaker 4: like getting the shit kicked out of yourself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, can you got to walk us beat for beat

332
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Speaker 2: on how a fight goes down in hockey as casual?

333
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Speaker 1: As casual? Like is it a fucking look?

334
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Speaker 3: Is it?

335
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Speaker 2: Are you guys talking to each other on the ice?

336
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Speaker 2: Is it like just is it just drop them in

337
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,120
Speaker 2: fucking go? So what is this? Walk us through this.

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Speaker 4: So the reason I love to do it the most

339
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Speaker 4: was to protect my teammates, especially when they were taken

340
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Speaker 4: advantage of. And that was the one thing that made

341
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,320
Speaker 4: it a lot easier when I was going through all that.

342
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,600
Speaker 4: And you know, fighting three thirty times a year for

343
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Speaker 4: the first time, is how appreciative your teammates are. And

344
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,160
Speaker 4: so you know, let's say one of our skill players

345
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,840
Speaker 4: gets ran by one of these types of players. It's

346
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,680
Speaker 4: what ran Like, let's say he goes back for a

347
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,040
Speaker 4: puck and that guy takes a run and I'm like

348
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,520
Speaker 4: lays out a big hit on him, Like there's nothing

349
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,480
Speaker 4: more than I want to get on the ice and

350
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Speaker 4: go challenge that guy to get retribution for that hit

351
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,640
Speaker 4: he just throw it through, or if he's like slashing

352
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,000
Speaker 4: him and trying to take advantage of him, So that

353
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Speaker 4: to me is where I would go on the ice,

354
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Speaker 4: tap him on the shin pads and say, hey, let's go, motherfucker.

355
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,440
Speaker 4: Or maybe you know, we were down three to one

356
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,000
Speaker 4: at home and you know, the energy and the building

357
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,520
Speaker 4: is flat and our guys aren't really going. I'm trying

358
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,680
Speaker 4: to provide a spark to our team, like let's get

359
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,880
Speaker 4: this fucking crowd into it and let's get going. That

360
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,600
Speaker 4: would be another time where I would line up at

361
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Speaker 4: a face off and ask a guy to go. So

362
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,160
Speaker 4: most of the time it was just tapping a guy

363
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Speaker 4: in the shin pads and saying, hey, let's let's throw down.

364
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,760
Speaker 1: And what do they ever say? Now?

365
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, typically if your team's ahead, you don't want

366
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Speaker 4: to lose momentum, So.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to get the power play, you don't want.

368
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,520
Speaker 4: To get paled yeah, because especially if I'm chasing around

369
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,159
Speaker 4: the ice and I'm tapping them on the shin pads,

370
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,639
Speaker 4: then I would have gotten an instigator penalty. So you

371
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,480
Speaker 4: have to be a little bit more subtle about it,

372
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,960
Speaker 4: where like you're like off. A face off is when

373
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,280
Speaker 4: you just verbally say hey, you want one, And half

374
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 4: the time a guy whose team has a lead will

375
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Speaker 4: be like no, coach said no. Coach said no, And

376
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,880
Speaker 4: my coach would say the same thing to me, you go, biz,

377
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,359
Speaker 4: we got all the momentum, leave it alone. And it

378
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,200
Speaker 4: sucked because sometimes the guy would be tapping on the

379
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,200
Speaker 4: shin pad and kind of calling you out in front

380
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Speaker 4: of your crowd. And some people they don't give a

381
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,639
Speaker 4: fuck about the momentum. They paid for their ticket and

382
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Speaker 4: they want to see people get their face punched in,

383
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,399
Speaker 4: So that sucked. But oftentimes, and that guy, if he

384
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,520
Speaker 4: really wanted one, then he would take a run at

385
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Speaker 4: one of my teammates and then it was like, okay,

386
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,640
Speaker 4: now it's no more questions asked. We're fucking going.

387
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Speaker 2: Yeah, now, what's the difference between a fight and an agitator?

388
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,000
Speaker 2: Because we just had Sean Avery on yes, and I

389
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 2: just want to clarify talk.

390
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,560
Speaker 4: About another guy who had a great transition out of playing.

391
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:10,840
Speaker 1: He's fucking doing another Nolan movie.

392
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,440
Speaker 4: He is. He is an unreal He's killing it. He's

393
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 4: very disciplined.

394
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Speaker 2: He's part of my neighborhood watch for my daughter's house.

395
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 2: He lives in the same neighborhood. And so remember that

396
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,919
Speaker 2: TMZ TMZ video that came out of him yelling at

397
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 2: the kid. Yes, and that was right by my house.

398
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 4: No ship. Yeah, he's gotten a few Donnie Brooks off

399
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,879
Speaker 4: the Yeah, yeah, yeah, he I love having him up there.

400
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 4: But it makes my kid feel safe. And he's doing

401
00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,400
Speaker 4: all the jiu jitsu stuff. Yeah, he's like God, he's

402
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 4: pretty to be an agitator, though he was, he was

403
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 4: probably one of the best ever to agitate. I mean,

404
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 4: I know you had him on recently. He talked about

405
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,200
Speaker 4: the bro Duura stuff. Sean would say some insane ship

406
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,199
Speaker 4: to people on pace, like places that I would not

407
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,760
Speaker 4: go if like if if, yeah, just some of the

408
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 4: shit he said. Your jaw would drop and you'd be like,

409
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,119
Speaker 4: oh my god, I wouldn't want to be in a

410
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 4: relationship if I was playing against Sean Avery like, I

411
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,920
Speaker 4: might even divorce my wife before I played against him,

412
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 4: just to avoid the type of insults that he would throw.

413
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 4: But he was very good at like picking his spots

414
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 4: and then knowing when to rile the other team up

415
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,399
Speaker 4: and then not fighting. So he was a master of

416
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 4: his craft. I don't think he left the league with

417
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 4: a ton of friends, but I don't also think he

418
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 4: gives a shit. He runs a tight ship. He's got

419
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,120
Speaker 4: a tight group and that's all he cares about.

420
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the fighter and the agitator is different.

421
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like he he was also a very good player

422
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,160
Speaker 4: when he focused on playing. I think he could. He

423
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,439
Speaker 4: was a very reliable third line player, and even in

424
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,840
Speaker 4: some cases he could go up and down the lineup,

425
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,440
Speaker 4: Like if you needed Sean to play on the first

426
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,119
Speaker 4: line for a night, he could fit in. Maybe not

427
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 4: sustainably for a twenty game stretch, but for me, I

428
00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 4: was just more of a knuckle dragger. Where I mean,

429
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,920
Speaker 4: the most minutes I ever played in the game, I'll

430
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,479
Speaker 4: never forget it. It was eleven minutes in Edmonton. I

431
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,199
Speaker 4: had to assist that game, and I felt like I

432
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,159
Speaker 4: needed to be in a body cast the next the

433
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 4: next day because even playing eleven minutes and keeping up

434
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 4: to these world class athletes like that was just not

435
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,119
Speaker 4: my not my jam. So I was comfortable with my

436
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 4: five to six minutes knuckle dragon, fourth line, dump it in,

437
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,920
Speaker 4: dump it out, a boys, change it up, let's go.

438
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,760
Speaker 2: Are you watching film of fighting guys like guys that

439
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 2: you potentially fight, like I know this guy, he's gonna

440
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,159
Speaker 2: pull my jersey, probably give me a right hook or something.

441
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 4: So fortunately enough for me at the time where I

442
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 4: started doing it, like YouTube was a thing, and then

443
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 4: there lowly social media started coming in, so I could

444
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,919
Speaker 4: study that way where the olden days they had to

445
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 4: find like the VHS tapes and cutups. And also I

446
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 4: started fighting in a time where like the American League

447
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 4: actually probably had more of the tough guys in the

448
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 4: NHL because they were slowly weeding out that style in

449
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 4: the NHL, where now it's a lot more organic and

450
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,640
Speaker 4: there's not as many heavyweights, like guys like Tom Wilson

451
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 4: are still very efficient because they can play and their heavyweights.

452
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 4: So fortunately for me when I was in the NHL,

453
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 4: I wasn't having to scrap the old fighters of the

454
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,959
Speaker 4: past where they would grab on and they would just

455
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,199
Speaker 4: go punch in the face match where there was no

456
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 4: defense none.

457
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 2: It was I watch it every time, like these guys

458
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,760
Speaker 2: take fucking two or three off the face and just

459
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 2: keep going.

460
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,959
Speaker 4: And I was more of a defensive fighter where you

461
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 4: look back and I'm just so grateful. If I was

462
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 4: playing in the seventies, like my nose would be on

463
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 4: the on the side of my head and I probably

464
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 4: would be like eating through a two at this point.

465
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 4: So just a different era. And I guess to answer

466
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 4: your going back to your question, the difference between an

467
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,919
Speaker 4: agitator is somebody who doesn't necessarily have to fight all

468
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 4: the time, but can get under people's skin, play the

469
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 4: game and also handle his business.

470
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: Sure, next, Ray work on his shocking trade from the

471
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 1: Bruins to the avalanage. When you got Trey, how was

472
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 1: that experience?

473
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:02,640
Speaker 4: Now?

474
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,439
Speaker 1: Was that a mutual? I asked how?

475
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 6: You asked, Yeah, so, like I was talking earlier, how

476
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 6: the struggles had been you know, for quite a while.

477
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 6: And it was the hardest, hardest thing I ever had

478
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 6: to do in terms of my hockey career. Is asked

479
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 6: to leave Boston. Call Harry Sindon. He was at the

480
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 6: general manager's meetings in Florida, and I called him, and

481
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 6: I said, Harry, I said, you know, I've I've decided

482
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 6: that I've got to go somewhere to compete, to put

483
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 6: myself in a different environment, to see if I, you know,

484
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 6: first of all, if I still got it, and to

485
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 6: try to win again, or to compete to win, to

486
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 6: get somewhere, to have hope that a team, you know,

487
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 6: we could get somewhere. So I told him I wanted

488
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 6: to go to Philadelphia. I didn't want to go in

489
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 6: a Western Conference. I was at the time, We're building

490
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 6: our big house here in Boston, and I wanted to

491
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 6: be able to come back when the scheduled allowed me

492
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 6: to and and I thought Philadelphia, looking at the Eastern Conference,

493
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 6: had the best opportunity. And I made that very clear

494
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 6: to Harry, and he was like, okay, I hear you.

495
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 6: And I knew Reggie Lemland was a goalie for the Bruins,

496
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 6: that is one of my best friends, that he was

497
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 6: goalie coach for the Flyers, so I knew everything that

498
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 6: was going on on their side, and I too, I

499
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 6: thought I knew what was going on on my side.

500
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 6: And it just happened that there was more teams involved

501
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 6: at the end, and I knew this because I'm having

502
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 6: dinner one night with my agent and my wife and

503
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 6: Steve Casper and his wife and Renee Angelil calls me

504
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 6: Celine Dion's husband back in the day. Don't know if

505
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 6: you remember how we spoke. Do you remember me? We

506
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 6: played golf together in Montreal And I'm like, yeah, yeah, right,

507
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 6: a is Yeah, I remember because him and Pierre Lacuad,

508
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 6: a general manager for the Avs, were best friends. They

509
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 6: grew up together. They talked every day. And he says,

510
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 6: Pierre does not know I'm calling you. He says, I

511
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 6: hear you might get traded. Corolado would be an amazing place.

512
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 6: And so I'm like, yeah, right, Pierre doesn't know you're

513
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 6: calling me, right, you talk every day. So anyways, I

514
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 6: knew Colorado was involved. Dave Alett played for Saint Louis

515
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 6: back then that had played with the Bruins. He called me,

516
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 6: he says, Saint Louis, who'd like to know if you

517
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 6: come to Saint Louis. I'm like, that's not where I

518
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 6: want to go. I knew new Jersey was involved, Detroit

519
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 6: was involved, so I knew there was other teams involved.

520
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 6: So we're playing the Flyers some after Saturday afternoon game.

521
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 6: The last game I played with the Bruins, and I

522
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 6: read you Lemlin in the morning says, right, it's a

523
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 6: done deal. You're gonna you'll becoming a Philly. So I'm

524
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 6: like great. So the puck ends. I'm on the ice

525
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 6: the end the end of the game, and the puck's

526
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 6: just rolling right for me, and the buzzard goes off.

527
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,959
Speaker 6: So I pick up the puck and I'm like, okay.

528
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 6: So I got the park for the last game I

529
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 6: played with the Bruins and all that stuff. So then, uh,

530
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 6: after the game, I'm looking for Harry Sindon. I think

531
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 6: it's a done deal. I can't reach. Harry ended up

532
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,360
Speaker 6: calling me later that night says, sit tight, there's other

533
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 6: teams in ball. I said, you know where I want

534
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 6: to go. He says yeah, but we'll see. He says,

535
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 6: don't come to the rank Sunday. If it's not done

536
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 6: by tomorrow. If it's not done by the next day,

537
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 6: don't come. We're playing Ottawa on the Monday. He says,

538
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 6: stay away from the rink till it's done. So he

539
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 6: calls me. I get a call later that night at

540
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 6: the end of the the Senators game, telling me that

541
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 6: I'm going to Colorado, but and warm up that that

542
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 6: night Dave, Dave Anderchuk was pulled off the ice and

543
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 6: warm up and he calls me. He says, Ray, they

544
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 6: just pulled me off the ice. I'm probably going with you.

545
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,719
Speaker 6: Where are we going? I said, I have no clue, Dave,

546
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 6: if I haven't heard nothing yet. We both end up

547
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 6: going to Colorado together. So it was but it was

548
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 6: an amazing I never played with so many French guys

549
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 6: in my life. And a hole because you know, Quebec

550
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 6: Nordiaks are those that's a team in ninety six that

551
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 6: moved to Denver to become the Avalanche and they won

552
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 6: the Cup in ninety six the first year they were there.

553
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 6: They were ready to pop. When they moved from Quebec,

554
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 6: they were frigging ready to roll, and so they won

555
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 6: the Cup there. Then they competed. They got to the

556
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 6: Semis pretty much every year, but could never really get

557
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 6: over the hump till two thousand and one. So so

558
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 6: that's how the deal went down.

559
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 1: So you get traded.

560
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 2: Earlier in the interview, you go, you know, this is

561
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: the best team I ever played for. How is that

562
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: dynamic going when you're a fucking legend. Everyone knows you

563
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 2: as mister Bruin. You're the Boston Bruins. Okay, you're the

564
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: captain of the Boston Bruins. How was it going in

565
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: and re calibrating yourself to a new locker room?

566
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: Because that's tough. I don't know if I could do that.

567
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 2: I didn't leave like after like ten years because I

568
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: didn't want to go and learn new people.

569
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: I didn't want to learn new system.

570
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 2: That's like, that's a very big thing, especially when you've

571
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 2: been in somewhere for twenty plus years.

572
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: You know what you're doing, you know what I mean.

573
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: It's like being a rookie again in a little bit

574
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: of a facet, which is completely different because you're a

575
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 2: borg and you know, but you're learning guys for the

576
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 2: first time in an uncomfortable environment that you've never been in.

577
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: How was that dynamic.

578
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 6: Walking into that room?

579
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 4: First of all? Was really weird?

580
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 2: I are you like Banks when you had joined Mighty

581
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 2: Ducks from she was Banks.

582
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 6: I was asked to play in that movie just to

583
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 6: come you know. They had a cameo of Yeah, I

584
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 6: think Luke, Robbie Tie and I don't know who the

585
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 6: other guy was, but there's two guys, and I was asking.

586
00:27:53,520 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 6: I'm like, I'm not flying a lack so but I

587
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 6: I got to Calgary. So Dave and I took the

588
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 6: plane at seven am on the Tuesday morning. We're playing

589
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 6: in Calgary that night, so they sent a plane for us.

590
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 6: It couldn't have been the smallest jet that you've ever had.

591
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 6: We had to stop in Kansas City to refuel, and

592
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 6: we're both in like he's six' four And i'm Like i'm.

593
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 6: Six but we're like this in a, plane all frigging

594
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 6: bubble up with our, equipment our, sticks our, clothes and

595
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 6: it's like it was so. Uncomfortable we get To calgary

596
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 6: round two pm their, time and then we have a

597
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 6: little press, conference a quick bite to. EAT i try

598
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 6: to sleep for maybe an hour or. WHATEVER i can't.

599
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 6: Sleep SO i met at the rink at four. O'clock you.

600
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 6: KNOW i first got the, RINK i walk in and

601
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 6: right there it's seventy seven in An, Avalanche. Jersey it

602
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 6: was so frigging, weird, man it was. Weird and then

603
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 6: as the guys come, IN i greeted everybody at the

604
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 6: door and introduced, myself but they you, know they got

605
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 6: me for my, play but they also got, ME i

606
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 6: think more for leadership and WHAT i brought in other

607
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 6: areas as. Well because talent they, had they needed maybe

608
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 6: another voice in there as. Well thanks for.

609
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: Listening remember to tune in Every tuesday for a brand

610
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 2: new episode and Every sunday for Another games Of Names

611
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 2: high that year