Speaker 1: What's that at the bed. It's spooky, joky, I'm really
Speaker 1: sure it's dead. It's coming this way.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, help, I'm ghosted.
Speaker 1: By guys that says please, Oh hey boo, it's me Roz.
Speaker 1: I am so excited for a listener episode. It has
Speaker 1: been months I have missed doing these. I'm so happy
Speaker 1: that I got to do this, and I of course
Speaker 1: I want to do more, so, like always, please send
Speaker 1: me your ghost stories to ghosted by Roz at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. Put in the subject line listener episode or
Speaker 1: something like that, and just give me a couple of
Speaker 1: little bullet points of what your stories are and I'll
Speaker 1: look through them, and you know, maybe I might not
Speaker 1: choose you this next time, but maybe i'll look at
Speaker 1: it later, because you know, I want to have like
Speaker 1: different kinds of stories every episode when I can, and
Speaker 1: let's do it. I'd love to do it once a month,
Speaker 1: but you know, we'll see how it goes. Hopefully hopefully,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Send me stories, send them in and
Speaker 1: we'll figure it out. I was joined today by Katherine
Speaker 1: Martin and Kelly and this is one of my favorite
Speaker 1: ones we've ever had. These stories are stupendous, So we're
Speaker 1: just going to get right into it. Go to patreon
Speaker 1: dot com slash Roz dres Fales for a bonus episode
Speaker 1: and bonus little video of me this week. Check it
Speaker 1: out link in the description. All right, time for some
Speaker 1: listeners on with this show. Hello Katherine in Brooklyn, New York,
Speaker 1: New York, United State. Dates. How are you?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Roz, it is such a dream come
Speaker 3: true to be talking to you, Dah. You are an
Speaker 3: icon in our household. Me, my husband, our rabbit, our
Speaker 3: cat all sit in and listen to you every week.
Speaker 1: Everyone gathers around, all the animals. It's like snow white.
Speaker 3: A little bit.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: Well, I am so honored. And from what I read
Speaker 1: from what you've set me, there's also a ghost in
Speaker 1: your house?
Speaker 3: What is up with that? Okay, So we moved here.
Speaker 3: We've lived in this apartment for about five and a
Speaker 3: half years, and when we moved in, we were like,
Speaker 3: vibes are great, vibes, check out, it's all good. But
Speaker 3: then we started noticing, like, so they painted our walls
Speaker 3: and the finish that they used in the paint as eggshells,
Speaker 3: so you can like see any marks on there and
Speaker 3: I started noticing in weird places, like greasy handprints on
Speaker 3: our walls, and so, okay, so when you walk into
Speaker 3: our apartment, the you walk in and there's a hallway
Speaker 3: immediately to the left that goes to our bathroom, and
Speaker 3: then there's like a little entryway, and then the kitchen
Speaker 3: is off of that, and so you can stand at
Speaker 3: the kitchen sink when you're doing dishes and you can
Speaker 3: kind of like see this just blank wall to your right.
Speaker 3: And I started seeing this like woman, of course in
Speaker 3: the typical stereotypical white dress, but her hair was in
Speaker 3: a bun, and she would like have her hands like
Speaker 3: folded in front of her, and she would just kind
Speaker 3: of like emerge from the wall. Make sure I wasn't
Speaker 3: trashing her apartment, watch over things which you.
Speaker 1: Just like come out of the wa You would watch
Speaker 1: her come out of the wall.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, so I couldn't look at her. It's that
Speaker 3: thing where you can't I couldn't look at her full on.
Speaker 3: It would be out of the corner of my eye,
Speaker 3: and I would just like be doing the dishes and
Speaker 3: I could see her kind of come out and and
Speaker 3: so I'm like I'm always the one in my marriage,
Speaker 3: I'm the one with much more active imagination. So I
Speaker 3: told I didn't say very much to my husband, but
Speaker 3: then he came to me and actually said, hey, have
Speaker 3: you seen this woman coming out of the wall?
Speaker 4: And I'm like what.
Speaker 3: And our cat would always go over to this wall
Speaker 3: and like to the wall like like they do because
Speaker 3: they can see everything. So I don't know. So that
Speaker 3: happened pretty frequently the first year.
Speaker 1: But does that woman listen to my podcast? Very important?
Speaker 3: He does, so, okay, so I will tell you. I
Speaker 3: will tell you. So if I'm listening to you on
Speaker 3: my on my lap and I'm like carrying you with
Speaker 3: me from room to room, I can feel like when
Speaker 3: when you do the EVPs or ev please, I can
Speaker 3: feel like it feels like somebody comes into the room
Speaker 3: to be like I got to see if this shit
Speaker 3: is real.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I wonder if EVPs sound different to
Speaker 1: a ghost. They're like, oh my god, my voice sounds
Speaker 1: so terrible. When I'm recorded.
Speaker 3: It's like quality control. They're seeing how well it actually worked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god. Have you ever tried to do
Speaker 1: any kind of like ghost hunty stuff there? Have you
Speaker 1: ever tried to record her.
Speaker 3: I've tried, but like stuff hasn't really ever come through,
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, and I've tried some of those
Speaker 3: apps that are just I don't know, they feel kind
Speaker 3: of silly. But so we've had we've had the handprints,
Speaker 3: so we named her ghost Hand and so as we've
Speaker 3: lived here throughout the years, like it kind of feels
Speaker 3: like so our building was built in nineteen twenty six,
Speaker 3: and it infrequently feels like we have somebody new just
Speaker 3: popping by to check in on their old apartment. Like
Speaker 3: sometimes we'll wake up. Our bedroom is at like the
Speaker 3: very end, so it's you know, entryway than living room
Speaker 3: and bedroom, and so sometimes we'll wake up to like
Speaker 3: noises in our living room and our rabbit and our
Speaker 3: cat will be in our bedroom with us, so we'll
Speaker 3: have to like be like hey, quiet out there. I
Speaker 3: have really strict rules of like I don't want to
Speaker 3: be touched or woken up, like don't wake me up
Speaker 3: for ghosts. These are my rules for the ghosts, like
Speaker 3: don't touch me, don't wake me up. And so one
Speaker 3: time I did wake up and it felt like someone
Speaker 3: was like kind of exploring in my room and it
Speaker 3: wasn't sleep paralysis. I wasn't afraid. I like slightly wiggled
Speaker 3: my toes to make sure it wasn't sleep paralysis. And
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden, like our rabbit. His whole
Speaker 3: little station is in one corner of our bedroom, and
Speaker 3: I literally heard in my head, holy shit, they have
Speaker 3: a rabbit, And like walking over there, I'm like, either
Speaker 3: I'm dreaming this or somebody's in here checking things out.
Speaker 1: But our rabbit will.
Speaker 3: So this is not trying to turn into a podcast
Speaker 3: about rabbits, but our rabbit. When rabbits get scared or annoyed,
Speaker 3: they'll thump their feet really loud, and it's like to
Speaker 3: warn you of danger and stuff. So he'll like thump
Speaker 3: his feet if there's noises going on in the living room.
Speaker 3: And one time I we woke up and our iPad
Speaker 3: had been completely turned off, was like turned on at
Speaker 3: like three am, blaring music like this jazz station. And
Speaker 3: I again, because I have these rules, I get really
Speaker 3: annoyed when I wake up. So I stomped into the
Speaker 3: living room and turned off the iPad and glared around
Speaker 3: in the dark, and I was like, it is not party.
Speaker 1: Time if you just glared around in a circle. You're
Speaker 1: bound to make eye contact whether you can see her
Speaker 1: or not. Do you write just the one lady?
Speaker 3: So okay, so we have also seen we named this
Speaker 3: we name this other guy Tom as in like a
Speaker 3: peeping Tom, because we'll be like Tom, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: that would be amazing if it were my space Tom.
Speaker 1: Just the man that looks over his shoulder and smile.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in a white T shirt, a white crew neck
Speaker 3: T shirt. Yes, yes, No. So like we'll be in
Speaker 3: the bathroom, like getting and dressed to take a shower,
Speaker 3: and you can like see somebody like poke their head
Speaker 3: around and then like, oh shit, they saw me, and
Speaker 3: then like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 1: So east hands are definitely his. I'm sorry, Oh you're right.
Speaker 1: It has to sorry not to be lude or anything,
Speaker 1: but the greasy hands are his. I know that for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that wouldn't beat You're right, because that doesn't track
Speaker 3: with ghost hands. She's like making sure we're not messing
Speaker 3: up her apartment.
Speaker 1: Yeah she's oh no, she's not ghost hands. Well I
Speaker 1: don't know who knows, but yeah, maybe she just really
Speaker 1: loved curly fries or something and her hands were greasy
Speaker 1: all the time, and you know, she lets she leaves
Speaker 1: a trail behind.
Speaker 3: Could be very well, could be she. I was a
Speaker 3: couple of mornings ago. Actually, I was playing the you know,
Speaker 3: the the like soul version of the Golden Girls theme song.
Speaker 3: Oh what's his name? Oh yeah, it's so it's like,
Speaker 3: I don't know it's it's kind of old, but it's
Speaker 3: this guy. His name is Aaron. I don't remember it,
Speaker 3: but you should look it up. It's amazing. In his video,
Speaker 3: he like ends it snatching his wig off.
Speaker 4: It's amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah I know that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was playing that and singing
Speaker 3: along with it, and all of a sudden we heard
Speaker 3: this loud crashing in our bathroom and I went in
Speaker 3: there and all of my shampoo bottles had been knocked
Speaker 3: off the shelves into the bathtub.
Speaker 2: Weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not the bunny, not the bunny. No, it was
Speaker 1: the greasy hand peeping tom.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I had to. I did have to tell
Speaker 3: them we're fans of the Golden Girls in this house,
Speaker 3: and if they weren't, then they could leave.
Speaker 1: WHOA, So how often would you say? Things happen?
Speaker 3: It kind of comes and goes. So as I feel like,
Speaker 3: as we're getting into spooky season, Like there's been more
Speaker 3: like oh, I think I saw somebody out of the
Speaker 3: corner of my eye, or like also, I've recently had
Speaker 3: where I've walked out of the bathroom down that hallway
Speaker 3: and I've seen and my husband was talking to me
Speaker 3: and he was watching me walk out of the hallway
Speaker 3: and we both saw this orb go past me and
Speaker 3: it was kind of like someone was like, oh, sorry,
Speaker 3: I gotta get right past you. Sorry, like like down
Speaker 3: the hallway. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't see what you guys are like, I mean,
Speaker 1: you've been there for what do you say, five years?
Speaker 1: It's not like yeah, too bad.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, so I don't allow I don't allow
Speaker 3: scary stuff. I've had some vibes where it feels scary
Speaker 3: and it's felt like somebody's there because they think I'm
Speaker 3: like energetic buffet. They're going to feast on.
Speaker 4: That.
Speaker 3: They want to, you know, try to make me scared,
Speaker 3: and so I don't allow that crap, and I kick
Speaker 3: people out if I think they're being scared, they're trying
Speaker 3: to be scary, or they're trying to be like Poulter icy,
Speaker 3: or if I feel like this is ros I'm a
Speaker 3: huge nerd. But the author Neil Gaman, he wrote this
Speaker 3: book called The Graveyard. The Graveyard, Well, shit, what's it called? Uh?
Speaker 3: The Graveyard Book? And it's like the Jungle Book, but
Speaker 3: it's a kid raised in a graveyard by ghosts. And
Speaker 3: in the story, like the kid learns some of the
Speaker 3: ghost tricks and one of them is raising the fear
Speaker 3: level in a room. And I was like, you know,
Speaker 3: that feels real because because you can be like in
Speaker 3: a room when you feel like there's a ghost in there,
Speaker 3: and you can feel like the fear level raising up.
Speaker 3: So I'm just I just sit up and I'm like,
Speaker 3: stop it. I need to sleep.
Speaker 1: Oh oh interesting.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's for them or if it's
Speaker 3: just for me, you know, of me telling my brain
Speaker 3: to like stop it and calm down, and you know,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe I'm the one doing all these mind
Speaker 3: tricks on myself.
Speaker 1: But yeah, wow, Okay, So it's like you figured it out,
Speaker 1: You figured out how to coexist, and it does it
Speaker 1: sounds like not that bad of a ghost like it
Speaker 1: sounds it sounds kind of amazing where you have all
Speaker 1: this activity, but you guys, you know, get along. You
Speaker 1: know your boundaries for the most part, they respect them.
Speaker 1: It's it truly is like a roommate situation.
Speaker 3: A little bit. And you know, it's funny because, like
Speaker 3: you've mentioned on your show about like people in New
Speaker 3: York not really talking like they're they're no ghost in
Speaker 3: New York. But I think it's partially like a lot
Speaker 3: of these buildings are old, the walls are thin. You
Speaker 3: can like hear your neighbors walking around sometimes, so if
Speaker 3: you hear other noises, you might just be like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's my neighbor. And also, like everyone is so you're
Speaker 3: so like surrounded by people all the time that like
Speaker 3: the last thing you want to do is think that
Speaker 3: there's some embodied like disembodied person also living in your
Speaker 3: apartment with you.
Speaker 1: Sure, well, yeah, I'm sure that. Like, for example, if
Speaker 1: you lived out in the middle of nowhere all by
Speaker 1: yourself and you felt what feels like a human is
Speaker 1: in your room, that would be crazy. But if you're
Speaker 1: around people all the time and then you're like in
Speaker 1: your apartment and it feels like there's someone in the room,
Speaker 1: it might just be like I've already done that, like that,
Speaker 1: I've run around so many people today. I don't like
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe you wouldn't process it the same.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I have talked to friends about like what
Speaker 3: we've experienced, and a lot of them have said they
Speaker 3: felt the same things, especially once that live in older buildings,
Speaker 3: of feeling like people are just popping in to check
Speaker 3: it on their old apartment.
Speaker 1: So creepy. But yeah, okay, well, but this is not
Speaker 1: the first time you've lived in a haunted home.
Speaker 3: No, no, So, So I did grow up in so
Speaker 3: like most New Yorkers, I'm a transplant, and I did
Speaker 3: grow up in Indiana in a very small town, and
Speaker 3: I lived in a Victorian home from let's see, we
Speaker 3: moved there when I was ten, and then I moved
Speaker 3: out shortly before I got married. But yeah, so we
Speaker 3: moved there from like a like a more like a
Speaker 3: mid century home that was like built out of stone,
Speaker 3: and then we moved into this Victorian home that has
Speaker 3: like original sighting and original windows and the upstairs has
Speaker 3: the original floors. And so I was sharing a bedroom
Speaker 3: with my brother at the time, and then our baby
Speaker 3: brother was like in there's this like little sitting room
Speaker 3: out outside of our bedroom, and then my parents' bedroom
Speaker 3: and my baby brother was like kind of there in
Speaker 3: a crib. And when we first moved in, it was
Speaker 3: kind of all the normal haunting things of like you
Speaker 3: could hear somebody walking up the stairs or walking up
Speaker 3: the basement stairs, and then of course nobody would be there,
Speaker 3: and then like you could hear somebody walking around that
Speaker 3: like sitting room area upstairs, and you know, like there
Speaker 3: were lots of weird creeks and noises. And my mom
Speaker 3: was always just like it's just an old house. You
Speaker 3: just have to get used to it, Like it's just
Speaker 3: an old house. But like weird things would happen where
Speaker 3: Like so I was ten, my brother, my next youngest
Speaker 3: brother was nine, and then my baby brother he was
Speaker 3: like a toddler, and so me and my brother and
Speaker 3: then my mom all the time would fall down the stairs,
Speaker 3: just like like like fall down the stairs. And so
Speaker 3: I remember like one time I was going down the
Speaker 3: stairs and I was like, I'm going to walk very carefully.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm not used to living in a house with stairs,
Speaker 3: And next thing I knew, I was just like falling
Speaker 3: down the stairs.
Speaker 5: And so like that was.
Speaker 3: Happening, and there was always kind of this feeling of
Speaker 3: like you were being watched. My brother and I would
Speaker 3: walk home from school because I'm old enough that it
Speaker 3: was still considered safe to do that, and we would
Speaker 3: hear so the front door to the house was right
Speaker 3: beneath our bedroom, and he could hear somebody knocking on
Speaker 3: the front door, which was really weird because we had
Speaker 3: a doorbell, and so nobody would ever be there, And
Speaker 3: it was always at the same time after we got
Speaker 3: home from school at like I don't know, like three
Speaker 3: fifteen or something. So we got to the point where
Speaker 3: like one of us would stay up in our bedroom
Speaker 3: window and the other one would go downstairs to check
Speaker 3: just to make sure that, like in running downstairs, the
Speaker 3: person hadn't already walked away, but nobody was ever there.
Speaker 1: What happened on those stairs, I don't know.
Speaker 3: So this is truly just the beginning. So my toddler
Speaker 3: that was in that sitting room would like suddenly start
Speaker 3: having a lot of nightmares and like waking up and
Speaker 3: pointing out through his crib saying that and like talking
Speaker 3: about seeing red eyes.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: So then my brother and I that were sharing bedroom,
Speaker 3: we got we got older, and my toddler brother was
Speaker 3: getting older, so he took our room, and then we
Speaker 3: took there's this other room off of the dining room
Speaker 3: that I guess was some other version of a sitting room.
Speaker 3: It like it one of the walls that was to
Speaker 3: the dining room was open, and so they were like
Speaker 3: in the process of like putting in the wall and
Speaker 3: a door, and that was gonna be our bedroom, and
Speaker 3: raws that room is just horrible. Like so when we
Speaker 3: first moved down there, we would hear like the dining
Speaker 3: room table was like the mail spots. We could hear
Speaker 3: the mail being sifted through in the middle of the night,
Speaker 3: and like hear people walking around and the dining room
Speaker 3: chairs kind of creaking and being moved. And then we
Speaker 3: also would have like simultaneous exploding head syndrome and we'd
Speaker 3: be woken up by it and it would sound like
Speaker 3: someone had jumped from the second story down to like
Speaker 3: our level, and you could hear like all the like
Speaker 3: stuff on the first level like shaking, like a big crash,
Speaker 3: like love like this big crash, waking us both up
Speaker 3: from our sleep.
Speaker 1: Oh that's not exploding head syndrome. That is something I know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's kind of like the whole time this
Speaker 3: was happening. So so when this stuff started happening, my parents,
Speaker 3: who weren't religious, that weren't religious, like went and had
Speaker 3: the house blessed, and stuff kind of calmed down. You
Speaker 3: could still kind of feel like you were being watched,
Speaker 3: but like we stopped falling down the stairs, we stopped
Speaker 3: hearing footsteps coming up the stairs, we stopped hearing the
Speaker 3: knocking on the front door. But then it's like it
Speaker 3: just took a break. It's like it just like clocked
Speaker 3: out and like then clocked back in, like after it
Speaker 3: had rested, it came back stronger. What kind of Yeah,
Speaker 3: this Lutheran priest where my mom and my stepdad got married,
Speaker 3: they weren't really a part of that church, but because
Speaker 3: he had married them, he agreed to come and bless
Speaker 3: the house.
Speaker 1: Yeah that goes so okay. That wore me out, but
Speaker 1: just way, I'm just gonna take a little nap and
Speaker 1: I will be rested and ready.
Speaker 3: To go one thousand percent. Like truly, it was just
Speaker 3: like a little just like a little break, and it
Speaker 3: came back stronger. By that time, Like you know, the
Speaker 3: wall for our bedroom had been finished and stuff, and
Speaker 3: so and we were getting older and so things were happening,
Speaker 3: like in our room while we were trying to sleep.
Speaker 3: There's this like one part that is supposed to be
Speaker 3: a corner, but it's actually diagonal because it's the backside
Speaker 3: of a fireplace in a different room, and you can
Speaker 3: just like feel like I've never ever felt so much
Speaker 3: hatred in my life being like projected towards me from
Speaker 3: that corner, and we would have like both we would
Speaker 3: both have like horrible nightmares. I would hear like like
Speaker 3: someone like drumming their fingers like on the wall next
Speaker 3: to my head, and then I would I would be
Speaker 3: so I've always been a side sleeper, and I would
Speaker 3: be like woken up by like feeling a hand yank
Speaker 3: me over onto my back and I could feel like
Speaker 3: the fingers in my shoulders.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, do you know what the history was?
Speaker 5: So I am a research queen, and.
Speaker 3: So I okay, okay, So first of all, before I
Speaker 3: tell you about the history of this house, let me
Speaker 3: tell you the weird synchronicities. So when we moved there,
Speaker 3: we inherited a bunch of like family antiques. Basically, my
Speaker 3: mom got several photo albums and we were looking through them,
Speaker 3: and my great great grandmother. My family didn't grow up
Speaker 3: in this town. And at the time that my great
Speaker 3: great grandmother was alive, it was a it was like
Speaker 3: a day trip, like you take the train to this
Speaker 3: cute little country town, you know, and spend the day there.
Speaker 3: And then it's like a whole ass thing that people
Speaker 3: would do. And she is dressed up. She and her
Speaker 3: friends were dressing in drag actually as boys and in
Speaker 3: front of the next door neighbor's house.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And that how our house that we lived in
Speaker 3: during that time was like in the town known as
Speaker 3: like the party house. So that and then my husband,
Speaker 3: he and I we actually met in high school and
Speaker 3: because it's Indiana and everybody he gets married to twelve
Speaker 3: we so so we're high school sweethearts. Yeah. Yeah, But
Speaker 3: I found out that his aunt was a hospice nurse
Speaker 3: for these two sisters of the family that owned that
Speaker 3: house and took care of them in that house in
Speaker 3: the eighties as they were as they were dying. And
Speaker 3: then my husband's mom would even go in and like
Speaker 3: visit them.
Speaker 1: Weird.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then this is just like a fun, little, fun,
Speaker 3: little side fack for me. But I don't know if
Speaker 3: you heard about that that vocal coach, that was the
Speaker 3: vocal coach for Debbie Harry here in the city, and
Speaker 3: she recently passed away.
Speaker 1: Yeah okay, yeah, go ahead, he.
Speaker 3: Got like pushed yes purposefully by a pedestrian.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 3: So she's actually from my tiny ass town in Indiana
Speaker 3: and her grandparents were the family that owned my house. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so all of that, and so I looked. I started
Speaker 3: like trying to do as much research as possible, and
Speaker 3: you know, found out that like you know, they the
Speaker 3: land was you know, stolen from the indigenous people around
Speaker 3: eighteen oh three. The township was made sometime in the
Speaker 3: eighteen thirties, and I found a map, so I thought
Speaker 3: that the original owners were this German family and that
Speaker 3: the house was built in eighteen eighty five. But then
Speaker 3: I found a map from eighteen eighty that was the
Speaker 3: same plot of land and the same like it had
Speaker 3: the same structures for the house, and the house was
Speaker 3: still there and it was owned by a mister W. C. Smith.
Speaker 3: And I couldn't find any other information until I found
Speaker 3: this newspaper article from eighteen eighty five, and all it
Speaker 3: said it was one of those little like gossip things
Speaker 3: that they used to do in the newspapers, like back
Speaker 3: in the Victorian era. And all it said was missus W. C.
Speaker 3: Smith will be attending her daughter's funeral in Minnesota with
Speaker 3: her grandson.
Speaker 1: Mister W. C.
Speaker 3: Smith will not be accompanying her due to his absence
Speaker 3: in the forests of Minnesota. And that was all it said.
Speaker 3: And then this German family moved in and they were
Speaker 3: the owners until the eighties.
Speaker 1: I guess what does that mean?
Speaker 3: So basically, mister Smith went hunting, well I'm assuming went
Speaker 3: hunting in the forests of Minnesota, got his got himself lost,
Speaker 3: and never came back. And then when their daughter died,
Speaker 3: the wife just moved up to Minnesota and left the house.
Speaker 1: Ah. Yeah, his goes to somehow in the house.
Speaker 3: Well, that's what I've wondered if like, because it's always
Speaker 3: this presence is also always felt male. Like I've talked
Speaker 3: to my brother about it, and then my baby brother
Speaker 3: is he's you know, gotten older, and we've all agreed like, okay,
Speaker 3: this this has always felt male. It's always felt like
Speaker 3: it's always felt like a bully, is what it's felt like.
Speaker 3: Like Like at the same time that that like stuff
Speaker 3: that was happening to us when we were asleep during
Speaker 3: the day, like we'd be watching family, we'd be watching
Speaker 3: TV as a family, and the channel this was back
Speaker 3: in the days of cable, so the channel would change
Speaker 3: to like one of the non input channels, and it
Speaker 3: would be all staticky, and then the volume would turn
Speaker 3: all the way up, all on its own.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's mister W. C. Smith, right and so.
Speaker 3: And then like the ceiling fans, So the ceilings are
Speaker 3: you know, those high ass ceilings, and the ceiling fans
Speaker 3: were on those extension poles, and the ceiling fans would start.
Speaker 1: Swinging terrifying, just a full on helicopter propeller on the loose.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, so I so one time during one
Speaker 3: of the TV episodes, I got really pissed because it
Speaker 3: felt like a bully, and so I got really pissed
Speaker 3: and I was like stop it really loud, and it
Speaker 3: stopped after that. But like, I don't know, things always
Speaker 3: just like have come and gone like that.
Speaker 1: That's why you can deal with the ghosts in your
Speaker 1: Brooklyn apartment because.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, because I was traumatized as a child totally.
Speaker 1: Because I would be able to put up with the
Speaker 1: greasy hands and the lady out of the corner in
Speaker 1: my eye. Well, you know, I have to hop on
Speaker 1: another call, but I thank you so much, and I
Speaker 1: believe don't you have even other stories to tell?
Speaker 3: I mean, I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to do this again sometime.
Speaker 3: That would be so lovely. You were literally a huge
Speaker 3: light in our lives and we just love you.
Speaker 1: Love it.
Speaker 2: There's a ghost in my house.
Speaker 1: I am now joined by Martin in Los Angeles, California.
Speaker 1: How are you, Martin?
Speaker 4: I'm wonderful. Ross how are you?
Speaker 1: I'm so good. Well, we just worked together.
Speaker 2: I know you.
Speaker 1: We work together.
Speaker 2: You.
Speaker 1: I actually talked about it on the show. You are
Speaker 1: the reason that I got to talk to Chris Pine
Speaker 1: about ghosts, because because you happened to be talking to
Speaker 1: Chris Pine about ghosts, which was very strange that that
Speaker 1: that came up, because I wanted to talk to them
Speaker 1: about it, but I didn't want to bring it up.
Speaker 1: And then you spit on his lap like Harry Styles did.
Speaker 1: No just kidding, did you see that? He went viral?
Speaker 1: He was great. But then it turns out you've got
Speaker 1: some ghost stories.
Speaker 4: So I have one specific ghost story, and I think
Speaker 4: I think the way, the way I talked to you
Speaker 4: about it was that I was never a huge believer
Speaker 4: in ghosts. I've always been a believer that there are
Speaker 4: forces that somehow communicate with you. I don't want to
Speaker 4: sound even more crystally, but anyway, I'm not afraid of that.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 4: Well, the reason we got into the conversation with Chris
Speaker 4: Pine was that that I was talking about a time
Speaker 4: when I was like seven years old and I was
Speaker 4: having a dream where I was choking on marshmallows and
Speaker 4: I woke up and my pillow was in my mouth
Speaker 4: and I couldn't breathe, and I was panicking, and I
Speaker 4: kept sucking the pillow into my mouth more and I
Speaker 4: was and I was I was basically dying and uh
Speaker 4: and I was just like trump fighting and trying to
Speaker 4: get this pillow out of my mouth and I couldn't
Speaker 4: do it. And a voice, I heard a voice, and
Speaker 4: it said, let go. It'll be okay.
Speaker 3: Let go.
Speaker 4: And I thought in my head, at seven years old,
Speaker 4: I think, well, I guess I'm going to die now.
Speaker 4: And so I stopped breathing. I went, I breathed out,
Speaker 4: and the pillow came out of my mouth and so
Speaker 4: this voice kind of saved my life. So that's where
Speaker 4: that's where the things started from. So I've always had
Speaker 4: like this sort of idea that there's you know, forces
Speaker 4: or something out there, you know that talks to you.
Speaker 1: A ghost was like a guardian angel or what do
Speaker 1: you think that is?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I kinda, yeah, I guess I would look at
Speaker 4: it that way, or you know, I don't know that
Speaker 4: I'm quite that religious or anything. I don't know that
Speaker 4: I associated with a religious thing, but yeah, a guardian
Speaker 4: of some sort. So that's how we got into the conversation.
Speaker 4: And then we got into the conversation about ghosts, and
Speaker 4: I said, I never really I never really believed because
Speaker 4: I never had an experience with that kind of phenomena
Speaker 4: until I'm in Chicago in nineteen ninety four with three
Speaker 4: of my friends and we had this swanky apartment in
Speaker 4: Boystown in Chicago, and it was a four bedroom, three
Speaker 4: baths apartment. It was awesome, and one of the rooms
Speaker 4: we had as a music room. And so one night,
Speaker 4: you know, as we are artists, we do stupid things
Speaker 4: like sit around and sing songs on a piano and
Speaker 4: stuff like that. And so my friend Kirkland was playing
Speaker 4: a song that and I said, oh, that's a pretty song,
Speaker 4: and he's like, oh, I wrote this for my friend Stephen,
Speaker 4: who died some years before nineteen ninety four. So cut
Speaker 4: to I think the first incident was Deborah, Daryl, and
Speaker 4: myself the other roommates were out on Halstead and we
Speaker 4: were going to get some pizza. So we called Kirkland.
Speaker 4: And this was before cell phone, so I think I'm
Speaker 4: still used. I don't know how I got a hold
Speaker 4: of him anyway, So we called him and and I said,
Speaker 4: you know, you don't want to know your pizza, blah
Speaker 4: blah blah. And then he goes, oh, who's with you?
Speaker 4: And I said, oh, it's me, Deborah and Darryl, and
Speaker 4: he goes all of you. I said yeah, and he
Speaker 4: goes okay and I and then we hung up. And
Speaker 4: then when we got home, I asked him why did
Speaker 4: you say that? And he goes, well, because there was
Speaker 4: noise in here, and I just assumed it was one.
Speaker 1: Of y'all, or does somebody break in.
Speaker 4: No, he just thought he thought he heard somebody rustling
Speaker 4: around in the house and it was like the thirteenth
Speaker 4: floor of an apartment there's no way anybody could get
Speaker 4: in there unless I guess spider Man. But so, uh
Speaker 4: so that happened, and then then Kirkland. Kirkland was like,
Speaker 4: I can't find my check book and uh and we're
Speaker 4: all like, well, we don't touch your check I don't
Speaker 4: even know where your check book is. Why would I know,
Speaker 4: you know? So he said, well I don't know. He said, well,
Speaker 4: I don't know what you know. I don't understand. So
Speaker 4: and then like a week later he found it and
Speaker 4: it was in his medicine cabinet there and then yeah
Speaker 4: and uh then uh then all this stuff started with Kirkland.
Speaker 4: And then Kirkland went into the He came to my
Speaker 4: room one night and he's like, what you know what
Speaker 4: you guys? Can you stop moving my coffee tree? My
Speaker 4: coffee coffee mug tree?
Speaker 1: Oh, like, are those things that you like hang coffee
Speaker 1: mugs on?
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you. I didn't know what it was either
Speaker 4: at the time. I was like, coffee mug tree an'tone
Speaker 4: with a fuck a coffee tree? Why would I Why
Speaker 4: would I move it? So anyway, so he usually had
Speaker 4: it on the side of the sink and it would
Speaker 4: move to the other side and none of us was
Speaker 4: moving it.
Speaker 1: So at what point did you guys go, Okay, this
Speaker 1: might be a ghost.
Speaker 4: The when it became obvious to us as something with
Speaker 4: going on was when stuff started happening to all of us.
Speaker 4: Like everything was centered around Kirkland, and Kirklin was like,
Speaker 4: he's Kirklan's like the businessman type, he's you know, so
Speaker 4: him you know my checkbook And I was like, okay, whatever.
Speaker 4: But then the rest of us started having stuff happen.
Speaker 4: Like I was home one night and I kept hearing
Speaker 4: someone's like like someone like, this is a big apartment.
Speaker 4: So like if my roommate, Debo, was on the other
Speaker 4: side of the apartment, so if she yelled my name,
Speaker 4: I would hear it kind of off in the distance.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't. It wouldn't be loud, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: So I kept hearing someone calling my name, and so
Speaker 4: I went to her room and I'm like what. She goes,
Speaker 4: She's like, why, why, what's going on? I'm like, why
Speaker 4: do you keep calling me? She goes, I haven't called you?
Speaker 4: So that happened?
Speaker 1: Would you say me? Could you tell if it was
Speaker 1: like a female voice or whatever.
Speaker 4: It sounded to me? Like it sounded to me like her.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, like it sounded to like it sounded
Speaker 4: like Deborah. That's why I went to her room. I mean,
Speaker 4: we were the only two people at the time, but
Speaker 4: you know, it sounded like her. So that's why I
Speaker 4: went to her room. And she said, that was not
Speaker 4: yelling you. Great. Then one time I was home by myself.
Speaker 4: This was the weirdest thing that happened to me personally.
Speaker 4: I was in so our living room where the TV was,
Speaker 4: and is on the opposite side of the apartment as well,
Speaker 4: so that's on my side of the apartment. And then
Speaker 4: there's a long galley walkway like a gallery like you
Speaker 4: would have art there, Like I don't know how long
Speaker 4: it was, maybe twenty five feet. It was a huge
Speaker 4: apartment anyway, So, and then at the other end was
Speaker 4: the kitchen and Deborah's room, and the kitchen was a
Speaker 4: galley kitchen. So I was sitting there watching the TV,
Speaker 4: which would make the kitchen in my right peripheral vision.
Speaker 4: And I was sitting there and I saw I saw
Speaker 4: something something walk from the kitchen to the back door
Speaker 4: where all the garbage stuff was for people to pick up.
Speaker 4: And I looked over and then there was nothing there.
Speaker 4: So I'm like, okay, that's fine. I just a little something.
Speaker 4: And then I started watching TV again. It happened again.
Speaker 4: What and I was like, okay, I'm getting a little
Speaker 4: weirded out.
Speaker 3: Then.
Speaker 4: But I was like I walked down there, nothing was there.
Speaker 4: You know, you know how you do? Uh, nothing was there.
Speaker 4: Everything was fine. So then I got back to the
Speaker 4: living room and I start watching television and then I
Speaker 4: noticed something. Something's different over in my riper. It wasn't
Speaker 4: someone walking, but there was something different. So I turned
Speaker 4: and there's a light on and I go to the
Speaker 4: kitchen and the refrigerator door is open. Stop it, I know, right,
Speaker 4: So I told I told, I told her, I told everybody.
Speaker 4: It was like, this is kind of weird, as anybody
Speaker 4: else had weird shit happening into them. And my friend
Speaker 4: Daryl said, yeah, I was watching TV and the refrigerator
Speaker 4: door was open, and I was like, that happened to me.
Speaker 1: That's when I don't pay the electric bill. Like a
Speaker 1: ghost can do that because there's no consequences. They're not
Speaker 1: going to be eating that food. Like that's exactly I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: Well wait till I tell wait till I get to
Speaker 4: the end of the story, because you're going to know
Speaker 4: why the refrigerator door was open. Okay, So then I
Speaker 4: talked to Debora and well, we were all talking together,
Speaker 4: and Debra said, Okay, I wasn't gonna tell anybody because
Speaker 4: I thought this was too bizarre and I didn't want
Speaker 4: to anything. I was stupid. But she was home one
Speaker 4: night by herself in her room and writing or reading
Speaker 4: or something like that, and she had this music box
Speaker 4: that was real old and was broken and it started playing.
Speaker 1: Those are so creepy when those air play.
Speaker 4: And she just blew it off, I guess, I mean,
Speaker 4: she didn't blow it off, but she didn't tell us
Speaker 4: about it. So we're all like thinking, like, what the
Speaker 4: fuck is happening, Like why is this happening? And we
Speaker 4: were thinking and thinking and thinking, and we were just like, well,
Speaker 4: you know, this all kind of started around that night
Speaker 4: that we were, you know, singing music and stuff like that,
Speaker 4: and Kirkland played this song for his friend Steven and
Speaker 4: and he's like, We were all like, you know, maybe
Speaker 4: it's Steven, you know, maybe somehow we got him out
Speaker 4: here again. And we started talking about yeah, and then
Speaker 4: we started talking about, like, you know, the things that
Speaker 4: were happening, and he was like, you know, he's like
Speaker 4: Steven would always move my shit, and like I'd have
Speaker 4: someplace that I kept my shit and he would move
Speaker 4: it somewhere else and I wouldn't be able to find it.
Speaker 4: And then and he would always leave the refrigerator door,
Speaker 4: like he'd sit there with refrigerator door open, trying to
Speaker 4: think of what he wanted to eat. Oh my god,
Speaker 4: instead of thinking about what he wanted before we opened
Speaker 4: the door. And we were all like, yeah, it's him.
Speaker 4: So we all decided that we were going to have
Speaker 4: that We were going to uh not stage, but we
Speaker 4: were going to go through all the whole house and
Speaker 4: all of us were going to say, Stephen, you're dead.
Speaker 4: You need to move on to the next phase of
Speaker 4: your life. We love you, and we we're glad you
Speaker 4: visited us, but you need to move on to the
Speaker 4: other side. And I kid you, not everything stopped.
Speaker 1: Did you know him? You personally?
Speaker 4: I did not know him. The only person that knew
Speaker 4: him was.
Speaker 1: Kirkland and interesting, I want to know how the checkbook
Speaker 1: got in the medicine cabinet.
Speaker 4: That's what he said. He said, that well, I mean,
Speaker 4: Stephen would move shit around, just like move stuff.
Speaker 1: And how long did you guys live there before this
Speaker 1: night that you guys were singing the song?
Speaker 4: This was the first year that we lived there, but
Speaker 4: it was well into that we moved there. We moved
Speaker 4: into that place in April of nineteen ninety four, and
Speaker 4: we moved out like April of nineteen ninety six, so
Speaker 4: it had to be like late ninety four, early ninety five.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is a good story with a beginning,
Speaker 1: a middle, and an end.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. I mean, it was really kind of
Speaker 4: this like that's what I mean, Like I I was
Speaker 4: not a believer, but that whole thing and the fact
Speaker 4: that it affected all four of us, yeah, really, I
Speaker 4: mean it could have been I guess it could. Maybe
Speaker 4: it was another spirit that was just being mischievous and
Speaker 4: acting like they were Stephen because we were talking about
Speaker 4: I don't know, it's possible too, but just the specificity
Speaker 4: of the things that Kirkland said he would do when
Speaker 4: he was alive, and the things that happened to us
Speaker 4: during this incident, you know, I don't I don't know
Speaker 4: how because we never talked about it until afterward.
Speaker 1: You know, Oh he was like, you know, still be
Speaker 1: in a roommate and like hanging out with his peers.
Speaker 4: That's kind of yeah, yeah, you know, we were. It
Speaker 4: was we had a very like that apartment was very
Speaker 4: full of like we just moved to Chicago because we
Speaker 4: were all going to try and get in the Second
Speaker 4: City and all stuff. So it was filled with a
Speaker 4: lot of excitement and a lot of joy, creativity, hope,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And I think that I
Speaker 4: think that in this happening, while we were all having
Speaker 4: this good time singing and all that stuff, I think
Speaker 4: it kind of just maybe brought him in. Maybe he
Speaker 4: was needing that. I don't know, but yeah, it was.
Speaker 4: It was these were things that I could, like, I
Speaker 4: just could not explain. Wow, you know, I can't. I
Speaker 4: can't explain them away. And that's why I believe in ghosts. Now,
Speaker 4: I don't know that I I don't know that I
Speaker 4: believe the ghostsert everywhere all the time. But I do
Speaker 4: think that there are spirits. And I almost have gone
Speaker 4: back to that incident when I was that I told
Speaker 4: you about when I was seven. I've almost gone back
Speaker 4: to that and thought, hmmm, maybe a guardian spirit. You know,
Speaker 4: maybe maybe there are people around me that have passed
Speaker 4: that are keeping me from you know, from harm.
Speaker 1: Oh I totally believe that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But also it's interesting, like, you know, the traditional belief
Speaker 1: of ghosts is someone dies in an area and then
Speaker 1: they're stuck around in that area. But then when you
Speaker 1: hear stories like this, it's like, yeah, they could I
Speaker 1: don't know, they could get conjured up and then just
Speaker 1: kind of hang out until you tell them.
Speaker 4: To leave, or be attached to a person. You know,
Speaker 4: maybe he was very attached to Kirk.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wonder if you ever played that song ever.
Speaker 4: Again that I don't know. We never played it again
Speaker 4: in our house. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, it was. It
Speaker 4: was very interesting. It was like this happened. This occurred
Speaker 4: like over a few months, like all these things, damn.
Speaker 4: And it took us a while to be like, oh
Speaker 4: wait a minute, is anybody else having these you know,
Speaker 4: m you know, because when you're happening to you, you're
Speaker 4: kind of like, come on. But then when everybody else
Speaker 4: was verifying it.
Speaker 1: But when you say that you saw something in the kitchen,
Speaker 1: do you was it? It was just out of the
Speaker 1: corner of your eye. Right, Like you didn't see actual
Speaker 1: details of a person.
Speaker 4: No, it was like because it was dark in the kitchen,
Speaker 4: it was dark in that area. Yeah, but the thing
Speaker 4: I saw was even darker than that, just like move.
Speaker 4: But I could tell it was a person. It had
Speaker 4: a humanoid form, but it wasn't. It wasn't. There wasn't.
Speaker 4: There weren't any details.
Speaker 1: WHOA Well, Martin, thank you so much for telling the story.
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you for having me. I'm glad to tell you.
Speaker 4: I love telling the story. It's my favorite.
Speaker 1: I've been ghosted too, Kelly in New York City. How
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 3: Hello, I'm doing well.
Speaker 5: How are you. I'm happy with you.
Speaker 1: I'm doing so great. I am really excited to hear
Speaker 1: about this. Quite the tale you sent me, and yeah,
Speaker 1: let's hear about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm going to try to be as concise and
Speaker 2: clear as I can. But it's a story that has
Speaker 2: some twists and turns. Yeah, so just for clarity and
Speaker 2: the sake of storytelling. It does have sort of two
Speaker 2: parts to the story, one which takes place.
Speaker 5: In two thousand and nine, and then.
Speaker 2: A series of events in twenty nineteen which just sort
Speaker 2: of changed everything I understood about what I'd seen in
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. But yeah, so I was on
Speaker 2: a Natural and Cultural ecology field study program based in Australia,
Speaker 2: which was an incredible study abroad experience.
Speaker 4: And.
Speaker 2: We you know, so as part of this, we would
Speaker 2: go on camping trips and just explore all the amazing
Speaker 2: different environments.
Speaker 5: That Australia has to offer.
Speaker 3: And a.
Speaker 5: Handful of very generous Aboriginal elders.
Speaker 2: Accompanied us on a camping trip in which we you know,
Speaker 2: we were really just trying to disconnect and to be
Speaker 2: present with the world and to learn a little bit
Speaker 2: from them about, you know, their worldview and way of
Speaker 2: seeing things. And so I think I was already sort
Speaker 2: of set up to be more in tune with things.
Speaker 2: We weren't allowed to take, you know, cameras or cell
Speaker 2: phones or even watches. So it was just really about
Speaker 2: being present in the environment where we were.
Speaker 1: Sis I could do that.
Speaker 5: It was incredible, It was incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, we had stopped on our way
Speaker 2: at a coastline. And it's far enough in the past
Speaker 2: now that I can't remember exactly the names of everywhere
Speaker 2: we went, but we had stopped at a coast and
Speaker 2: you know, I it was irresponsible of me, and I
Speaker 2: knew that I wasn't supposed to like take anything like
Speaker 2: shells or corals from the from the beach, but I couldn't.
Speaker 2: I was naughty little twenty year old, and I took
Speaker 2: a coral and I had it in my bag.
Speaker 5: I'd kind of forgotten about it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, at night, we would just sort of, you know,
Speaker 2: sit around, we would have a fire and they, you know,
Speaker 2: the elders would share with us of you know, not
Speaker 2: the Eastern Treek stories that are that we weren't allowed
Speaker 2: to hear, but you know, some of their dream time
Speaker 2: stories that you know, we were allowed to share with us.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think one of the main things,
Speaker 2: and I can't speak for their cosmology, but one of
Speaker 2: the main things that stood out to me and learning
Speaker 2: from them was just this real sense that the lines
Speaker 2: between man, nature and dividity are much more fluid than
Speaker 2: you know, the cultural background that I come from.
Speaker 5: And so I was very enchanted by all of that.
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, they would tell us stories from the
Speaker 2: dream time and you know, just about various how why
Speaker 2: the why the crow is black or you know, why the.
Speaker 5: You know, just various stories to explain things about the
Speaker 5: ecology of the world.
Speaker 1: And so when they say, like don't take any shells
Speaker 1: or coral or whatever, was that for a reason like
Speaker 1: that or that was There were a lot.
Speaker 2: Of stories that they would share about you know, there
Speaker 2: are certain spirits and like I said, I can't speak
Speaker 2: or for the worldview because I am I'm naive and
Speaker 2: I'm not a.
Speaker 5: Part of it.
Speaker 2: But from what I gathered, it's you know, there's certain
Speaker 2: rules about how you just relate to the natural world.
Speaker 2: Amongst them being you know, there were I remember one.
Speaker 5: Story that stood out to me.
Speaker 2: It was about water water holes were only women were
Speaker 2: allowed to swim that you know, we're sort of protected
Speaker 2: and if if a man or were to go into
Speaker 2: that watering hole, there might be some type of spirit
Speaker 2: entity that came and sort of protected the water. There's
Speaker 2: there's just there are a lot of rules but that
Speaker 2: have been developed over you know, so many years of
Speaker 2: of the evolution of culture and nature together which have
Speaker 2: worked to support healthy relationships between.
Speaker 5: Man and the environment.
Speaker 2: So I think among them, I don't know what maybe
Speaker 2: the if there was a deeper ecological purpose, but yeah,
Speaker 2: they're also there are different like territories that would be
Speaker 2: aligned with, you know, different groups of people, and you
Speaker 2: weren't necessarily supposed to take shells or corals from one
Speaker 2: area and relocate them to another.
Speaker 4: Got it? Okay?
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, I'm sort of chripping over my words just
Speaker 2: because I don't want to act like an authority on
Speaker 2: things that I'm not.
Speaker 5: But from what I what I've learned, these are the bits.
Speaker 1: I gleaned right right right now, I get it.
Speaker 2: But anyway, so I went to bed that night and
Speaker 2: I just had the most vivid dream I've ever had
Speaker 2: in my life with from it was just this water
Speaker 2: that was like swirling and pooling in everybody that I
Speaker 2: was studying with, and just this very dramatic dream and
Speaker 2: the water started taking the form of all of these
Speaker 2: different creatures. And you know, I wouldn't be surprising to
Speaker 2: have a dream like that after being exposed to these
Speaker 2: amazing stories and myths, so that in itself wasn't you know, surprising.
Speaker 2: But I woke up from this dream and there was
Speaker 2: this figure standing outside of my tent, and at first
Speaker 2: I thought that it was just one of the other
Speaker 2: kids that I studied with. You know, there were only
Speaker 2: a few, uh, you know, there are only it was
Speaker 2: mostly girls.
Speaker 5: On the trip. So I saw this man standing outside
Speaker 5: my tent and I was like, oh, is that like Steve?
Speaker 4: Is that you know?
Speaker 2: I was trying to figure out who it was and
Speaker 2: also just checking to make sure that I was awake,
Speaker 2: you know, pinching myself and saying, my name is Kelly.
Speaker 5: I'm in Australia.
Speaker 3: This is what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: Like, I was awake and I saw this thing, and
Speaker 2: the more I looked at it, you know, I wasn't
Speaker 2: I wasn't scared at all.
Speaker 5: I was more just curious.
Speaker 2: And as I looked at it, I realized that it
Speaker 2: wasn't actually a solid form, but it it almost had
Speaker 2: the appearance, if you know, a full moon were coming
Speaker 2: through the leaves and creating a really convincing form that
Speaker 2: your mind might be playing a.
Speaker 5: Trick on you.
Speaker 2: So I thought, Okay, well, maybe this is just the
Speaker 2: moon coming through some leaves. But then I continued to
Speaker 2: look at it and it was well, one, there was
Speaker 2: no moon. There was no bright moon in the sky
Speaker 2: that night, you know, might have been a little sliver.
Speaker 2: But also we were the area where we were camping,
Speaker 2: you know, there were some eucalyptus trees, but they were
Speaker 2: very sparse and there was no there was no tree
Speaker 2: above my tent that might be casting these shadows.
Speaker 3: And so as I continued to.
Speaker 2: Look at it, I just noticed that also it wasn't
Speaker 2: it wasn't shadow, but it was like emitting light, like
Speaker 2: the light was coming from it. And so I, yeah,
Speaker 2: spent some time laying there just trying to get to
Speaker 2: the bottom of what this thing is I might be
Speaker 2: looking at, and eventually just let myself fall back asleep,
Speaker 2: and in.
Speaker 3: The morning.
Speaker 5: I asked some I asked one of our elders.
Speaker 2: And gods, you know, like this crazy thing happened to
Speaker 2: me last night, and they did ask me, you know, well,
Speaker 2: have you taken anything from any of the places that
Speaker 2: we've stopped, Like, have you have you moved any any piece.
Speaker 3: Of these of nature.
Speaker 5: I forget exactly how I asked.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I was like, you know, I did take
Speaker 2: this coral and he was like, oh, you know, like
Speaker 2: of course that explains the dream about the water. You know,
Speaker 2: when you do that sort of thing, this, you know,
Speaker 2: some representative of the territory. The people that I had
Speaker 2: taken that from came back to retrieve the coral.
Speaker 5: And I was like, oh my gosh. I mean, in
Speaker 5: some ways, I will say it like did slightly encourage
Speaker 5: me to want to do more irresponsible things because I
Speaker 5: was like, I want to see what else I can see?
Speaker 5: But no, definitely I was called out.
Speaker 1: For sure, and damn it was like tapping its foot
Speaker 1: like I believe you have something that belongs to us.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what it sounds like. And you know,
Speaker 2: it makes sense. It all made sense, and he totally.
Speaker 2: It was like the first thing that they that he
Speaker 2: asked of me. But I will say, and to me,
Speaker 2: you know what, what just I had forgotten about this
Speaker 2: sort of for you. And then in twenty nineteen, my
Speaker 2: little brother passed.
Speaker 1: Away, So what happened to the coral?
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, then we drove again.
Speaker 5: And when we got back to that area, I threw
Speaker 5: it out the bus window. But this is the thing
Speaker 5: that to me is crazy.
Speaker 2: You know, I might be I might you know, be
Speaker 2: reading into things and making connections where they don't exist.
Speaker 2: But I then ten years later, in twenty nineteen, I'd
Speaker 2: totally forgotten about this, and my younger brother passes away tragically,
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm at home with my parents and
Speaker 2: I'm mourning and as many people have, you know, signs
Speaker 2: or symbols from loved ones who passed away, this incredible
Speaker 2: rainbow appeared in the sky blah blah blah.
Speaker 5: So I took a picture of this rainbow. It was
Speaker 5: very significant to me.
Speaker 2: And when I posted it on my Instagram, a friend
Speaker 2: of mine who had been in Australia with me, commented, oh,
Speaker 2: like the rainbow serpent, which was one of the.
Speaker 5: Things that we learned about from our elders over there.
Speaker 5: And when she said that, it just brought back this
Speaker 5: memory of that time.
Speaker 2: And I went into my little brother's room and he
Speaker 2: didn't have many things on the wall of his room,
Speaker 2: but he still had a note that I had written
Speaker 2: him during that trip I had taken to Australia, and
Speaker 2: with it he had a boomerang that I had painted
Speaker 2: of the rainbow serpent.
Speaker 5: And I was like, wow, Like ten years later he
Speaker 5: had this.
Speaker 2: On the wall. And when I read that note and
Speaker 2: looked at the date he had written that note to me,
Speaker 2: ten years to the day before the day that he
Speaker 2: I had written that note to him, I'm sorry, ten
Speaker 2: years to the day before the day that he passed away,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, well, this is it's sort of like
Speaker 2: an I was just feeling this sense of coincidence and
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about that spirit that I had seen, and
Speaker 2: so I went back to my journal. We kept meticulous
Speaker 2: journals on our trip, like field journals. And when I
Speaker 2: went back to look for the entry the night that
Speaker 2: I wrote in my journal about seeing the spirit, that
Speaker 2: I had seen that spirit to the day ten years
Speaker 2: before of when my brother passed. And so the more
Speaker 2: that I like looked into this journal and the connections
Speaker 2: to the experiences that I was having, then like I
Speaker 2: turned so that you know, I was just doing this
Speaker 2: research work and going through it and you know, really
Speaker 2: digging into my brain about like is this real?
Speaker 5: Is am I just creating connections that aren't there?
Speaker 2: And you know, for the most part, this journal was
Speaker 2: very We were also taking notes on ecology, so we
Speaker 2: were doing a lot of you know, more scientific note
Speaker 2: taking about various plants and animals and all that sort
Speaker 2: of thing. And so I this by now it was
Speaker 2: probably like, let's say, my brother passed away on the
Speaker 2: eighth of March, so I had written about seeing the
Speaker 2: spirit March eighth, two thousand.
Speaker 5: And nine I turned.
Speaker 2: Then by the time I was reading all this, it
Speaker 2: was probably March fifteenth, So I decided to turn to
Speaker 2: March fifteenth in my journal. And it was so strange
Speaker 2: because every other day in that journal it was like,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, an entry about the spirit, but also
Speaker 2: this meticulous note taking, and on that page I had just,
Speaker 2: for some reason I don't remember doing, colored the entire
Speaker 2: thing and like pastel rainbow and written everything is real.
Speaker 5: And this was like right as I was digging into
Speaker 5: this being and feeling like is any of this real?
Speaker 5: And somehow, on the day I was looking at it
Speaker 5: ten years before, I had just written this little note
Speaker 5: to myself.
Speaker 2: And so I mean, while the initial explanation of somebody
Speaker 2: coming back to retrieve a quarrel makes sense somehow, also
Speaker 2: to me I had this whole new, strange vision of like,
Speaker 2: is there somehow like is it possible that that was.
Speaker 5: Him somehow coming to see me? And then this note
Speaker 5: that I had left on his on his wall, or
Speaker 5: that he had left on.
Speaker 2: The wall that I had written him for all those years,
Speaker 2: was also some way of him like communicating or winking
Speaker 2: at me that that was.
Speaker 5: That that was him. I really don't know, but at
Speaker 5: the time, it all just it felt beyond coincidence. It
Speaker 5: all just felt beyond coincidence. And you know, I don't
Speaker 5: know how time works, and I I don't know if
Speaker 5: that would be possible, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I never would have thought when I first
Speaker 2: saw that thing standing outside that that.
Speaker 5: Was you know, my little brother. But to think back
Speaker 5: on it, could that have been you know, him when
Speaker 5: he was twenty four instead of fourteen. Like maybe it's
Speaker 5: hard for me to say now because I.
Speaker 2: Can't I can't look at it again, but yeah, so
Speaker 2: it takes it sort of gave me a sense of
Speaker 2: peace and that grief too, and I I did sort
Speaker 2: of allow myself to believe that.
Speaker 3: That that might have been him.
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, that is like so my mind is like
Speaker 1: so blown.
Speaker 3: But I know it's a lot.
Speaker 2: It's like complex, and I think if if you weren't
Speaker 2: there with me, as I got like go through this journal,
Speaker 2: it all seems very like disconnected.
Speaker 5: But it really was just the this this note on
Speaker 5: his bedroom wall.
Speaker 2: Felt like his final, my final connection to him. And
Speaker 2: then as I just unraveled the timing, it just all
Speaker 2: seemed so crazy that it was like ten years to
Speaker 2: the day and and yeah, nothing like that has ever happened. Again,
Speaker 2: I couldn't explain it, but yeah, and then just it
Speaker 2: also felt like it just felt like notes to myself
Speaker 2: in the past in the future that then I'm I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: this this all feels convincing.
Speaker 3: To me, but is it real?
Speaker 2: And then I flipped to that day and it's just
Speaker 2: this this deliberate message that says everything is real.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what, God, Yeah, that is so wild.
Speaker 1: I mean, I absolutely believe that that could be an
Speaker 1: explanation for that. I mean, I've heard so many stories
Speaker 1: that are really bring into question the idea of time
Speaker 1: and space and how it can all get twisted around
Speaker 1: or be signs from the future or yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful story. Either way, it's like, that's like
Speaker 1: such a gorgeous story.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I had never thought of things that way, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I don't know if it's.
Speaker 2: If it's comforting or disturbing, like to think about messages
Speaker 2: from the future, but in some ways it is comforting
Speaker 2: to know that, like if that were him, that you
Speaker 2: know his spirit lives on and that there is something
Speaker 2: something waiting for us on the other side, whatever it
Speaker 2: might be.
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember there was a story early on
Speaker 1: in Ghostead that was told to me by this comedian
Speaker 1: actress Jilly, and she was saying that she had an
Speaker 1: experience where she's saw a little toddler and then like
Speaker 1: later her sister had a little boy and it like
Speaker 1: looked she realized that that was him a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago, that like the ghosts that she had seen
Speaker 1: of this little toddler was like actually him from the future,
Speaker 1: like going back in the past like it. Stuff like that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it happens. Yeah, so I think that's what it was.
Speaker 2: But you know, both of them are are nice things
Speaker 2: to believe, So yeah, get it to the mystery of
Speaker 2: the universe what it really was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Kelly, I so appreciate you telling me this story.
Speaker 1: I love to thank you so much.
Speaker 5: I hope I didn't ramble on too much. It's it's
Speaker 5: a lot of twists and turns, but no, oh.
Speaker 1: My god, it's perfect. Thank you so much to Catherine
Speaker 1: Martin and Kelly Hey. That could be email me at
Speaker 1: ghosted by roz at gmail dot com with the subject line, listener, episode,
Speaker 1: and some bullet points of what your ghost stories are
Speaker 1: about or an alien story, or a bigfoot or a
Speaker 1: near death experience, or any of that kind of shit.
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about it. Hey, you
Speaker 1: subscribe to the show, Please subscribe, Follow it, Rate it
Speaker 1: five stars on Spotify Apple podcasts. Leave me a nice
Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts. Leave it. You can leave a
Speaker 1: ghost story for me to read on the show in
Speaker 1: a five star review on Apple Podcasts. My Patreon link
Speaker 1: is in the description of this episode. Okay, I will
Speaker 1: talk to you next week. I hope you're enjoying your
Speaker 1: Halloween season. I love you all, both living and dead.
Speaker 1: But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't
Speaker 1: haunt me. Came back.
Speaker 5: Star bands are
Speaker 1: A podcast a podcast network MHM