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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney. Along

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Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day

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Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts,

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Speaker 1: along with essential market moving news. Kind the Bloomberg Markets

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com. Time checking out with Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Opinion or joined by opinion columnists. But oh so much

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Speaker 1: more than that. His name is Stephen Roach and you

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Speaker 1: will know him from his time as former chairman of

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Speaker 1: Morgan Stanley Asia. Also, of course he's senior fellow at

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Speaker 1: Yale University. Stephen want to talk to you about your

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Speaker 1: call on the Dollar, but for us to have to

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Speaker 1: ask you about this explosive book from John Bolton, all

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Speaker 1: of the allegations that he didn't make when he had

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Speaker 1: the chance to give testimony, but is now making in

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Speaker 1: a book. You know the Chinese administration, possibly as well

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Speaker 1: as anybody in the administration, probably much much more so.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe the allegation that President and Tom pleaded

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Speaker 1: with Mr she to help him win reelection by buying

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Speaker 1: American agricultural products which would help President Trump in farm States.

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Speaker 1: You know, Bunny, I I do not know you know

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Speaker 1: the veracity of he said, she said, allegations, Um, in

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Speaker 1: any of this political intrigue from you know, the Ukraine

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Speaker 1: to UM Beijing. You you hear an awful lot. And

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Speaker 1: you know it's it's clear that Um, you know, we

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Speaker 1: we have a president who has pushed the envelope in

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Speaker 1: his use of political leverage to achieve um, not just

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Speaker 1: electoral results, but but economic results. And whether or not

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Speaker 1: he did as um former National Scarity advisor of Bolton indicated,

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Speaker 1: utilize that those tactics in addressing the China conflict for

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Speaker 1: political purposes in the US, it remains to be seen.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Trump will deny it, and Bolton has got

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Speaker 1: another point of view. And UM, you know, I have

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Speaker 1: no idea as to whether or not Bolton is right

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Speaker 1: or as Trump's as he's lying. Um, the president has

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Speaker 1: a inclination to stretch the truth a little bit as

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Speaker 1: well as we have gathered from his eighteen thousand plus

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Speaker 1: lies that have been fact chuffed by the Washington Post

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Speaker 1: since he's been president. But you know, I I just

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Speaker 1: I don't know. So Stephen, let's switch gears to your

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Speaker 1: column here. Every time we have an f X strategist on,

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Speaker 1: my first question is always give me the bear case

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Speaker 1: for the U. S. Dollar. And I rarely get a

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Speaker 1: good answer, or any answer at all, But I think

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Speaker 1: you've got one force. What's your call on the U. S. Dollar. Well, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: I'm not an epic strategist, Paul, so I don't have

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Speaker 1: to do this for a living, because you know, currency

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Speaker 1: calls are some of the toughest calls to do. But look,

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Speaker 1: I worry about an unsustainable dynamic that is now emerging

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Speaker 1: between domestic saving, or the lack of they are of

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Speaker 1: in the US and our chronic current account problem, which

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Speaker 1: requires US to borrow surplus foreign savings from abroad. We

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Speaker 1: entered COVID with a historically low domestic savings rate of

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Speaker 1: only one point four percent of national income in early

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Speaker 1: forty five year averages seven. So we're we we have

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Speaker 1: very inadequate saving UH and reflecting these explosive budget deficit

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Speaker 1: trajectory that we're on right now. Um, as you know

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Speaker 1: the Congress and the Administration addresses precipitous decline in economic activity,

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Speaker 1: our saving is going to go into negative territory. Did

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Speaker 1: that once before? In the global financial crisis, the average

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Speaker 1: was a negative one um uh, you know over the

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Speaker 1: uh two thousand nine to two thousand eleven period. But

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Speaker 1: it's gonna go sharply negative, I think into the minus

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Speaker 1: five area. And that's going to blow our current account

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Speaker 1: deficit to a new record in excess of six and

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Speaker 1: a half percent of GDP. The dollar serves the purpose

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Speaker 1: of setting the equilibrium between savings and and you know,

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Speaker 1: the current account, and so I'm looking for at client

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Speaker 1: in the dollar over the next five years to address that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a stunning call thirty five decline in the value

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Speaker 1: of the dollar. That would change the US economy irreptably,

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Speaker 1: I imagine. Now you do say it's couched in terms

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Speaker 1: of the comparison between the US the currencies of road

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Speaker 1: basket of America's trading partners. Would that include the yuan?

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Speaker 1: Will China be a trading partner in the future, Stephen, Yeah, Vonnie,

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Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I mean it's a big number,

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Speaker 1: but you know, if you look at the dollar, you

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Speaker 1: know it's moved over the you know, the last um

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Speaker 1: forty five years, we we had to we had two

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Speaker 1: drops of in the seventies and again in the mid eighties,

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Speaker 1: we had a drop of UM in the early two thousands. UM.

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Speaker 1: These are against you know, broad trade weighted baskets of

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Speaker 1: all of our trading partners. So this is not outside

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Speaker 1: the realm of the dollar declines we've seen in the past.

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Speaker 1: And it would you know, the dollar would fall against

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Speaker 1: UM I think the Chinese room and b. Yes, surprisingly

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Speaker 1: against the euro, which is the most unloved major currency

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Speaker 1: in the world, but also against you know, the the

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Speaker 1: Canadian dollar in the Mexican pay so, and probably even

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Speaker 1: against gold and cryptocurrencies like the bitcoin. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is a broad based decline reflecting some serious macroeconomic

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Speaker 1: and balances that we're have long been evident in the

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Speaker 1: US that are going from bad to worse as we speak, Stephen,

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Speaker 1: very briefly, we only have just a couple of seconds.

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Speaker 1: But good China really give the US dollar a run

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Speaker 1: for reserve currency, not on an air term basis. I

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Speaker 1: think UM. China's got a long way to go to

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Speaker 1: liberalize its financial system, to make its currency fully convertible,

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Speaker 1: open up its capital account, and China's got issues of

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Speaker 1: its own. But our reserve position has come down over

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Speaker 1: the last twenty years, and it's likely to go further

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Speaker 1: down with the dollar coming under the pressure that I envisioned. Stephen,

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Speaker 1: it is always a pleasure to speak with you, never

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Speaker 1: enough time, but we thank you for joining us. Steven

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Speaker 1: Roach is Senior Fellow at Yale Universe City, former chairman

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Speaker 1: of Morganstown, the Asia and Bloomberg opinion columnists. Did you

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Speaker 1: check out his latest column, how the coming crash and

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Speaker 1: the Dollar will Unfold for more details on our conversation.

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Speaker 1: Just then, looking at the market here again, let's think

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Speaker 1: to step back a little bit. You think back to

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Speaker 1: mid March when this all began, the market sank about

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Speaker 1: thirty four thirty five pc. It since retraced a lot

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Speaker 1: of that move coming off the bottom, driven in large

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Speaker 1: part by a federal reserve that has really been aggressive

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Speaker 1: and in putting liquidity into the market. The question now

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Speaker 1: for a lot of investors is what's the next step

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Speaker 1: to help us answer that question. Lisa Schalett, chief investment

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Speaker 1: Officer Wealth Management at Morgan Stanley. They have about almost

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Speaker 1: two and a half a trillion dollars of client assets.

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Speaker 1: She joins us on the phone. Lisa, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us once again, What are you hearing from

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Speaker 1: great to have you? What are you hearing from your

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Speaker 1: clients right now? Are they do they feel like, oh

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Speaker 1: g I missed out on this rally, or I don't

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Speaker 1: believe it is rally. What are you hearing most office,

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Speaker 1: most often from the Morgan Stanley clients. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: from our clients, and I think it's quite typical of

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Speaker 1: many private wealth clients. Is a continued level of skepticism, uh,

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Speaker 1: skepticism that that the country is quote unquote in the

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Speaker 1: clear with regard to the virus, skepticism that uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: the market is reflecting the economic reality that they see

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Speaker 1: on the ground. Uh. And and really skeptical about the

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Speaker 1: longer uh term. I mean, don't forget our typical client

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Speaker 1: is uh you know someone uh that that's probably over

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Speaker 1: fifty five over sixty uh And they have, you know,

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Speaker 1: some historic perspective, and so they're asking us a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions about what are the implications longer term of

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Speaker 1: this rapid money growth by the FED, of the exploding

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Speaker 1: deficits and debt. Uh. And so I think that there

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Speaker 1: is a large amount of cash on the sidelines, which

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Speaker 1: is certainly a constructive element for this market. But our clients,

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Speaker 1: for the most part, are are holding back, and I

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Speaker 1: think that they're waiting for a little bit more evidence

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Speaker 1: that things are truly improving, uh, and that you know,

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Speaker 1: profits are catching up to the to this market which

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Speaker 1: has anticipated a lot of recovery already, Lisa, are they

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Speaker 1: not then embracing the V shaped recovery narrative? And in

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Speaker 1: that situation, did the FED chair and give them all

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Speaker 1: the more ammunition to not embrace that? Yeah? So you know,

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Speaker 1: we definitely, you know, we're writing about this. So look, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, my my team and the folks on the

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Speaker 1: Global Investment Committee at Morgan Stanley have been trying to

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Speaker 1: to lay out that narrative and explain to folks and

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Speaker 1: our clients that, you know, the way markets work is, uh,

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Speaker 1: it's not about the level. It's all about rates of change,

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Speaker 1: and it's all about upside surprises. And if you get

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Speaker 1: positive rates of change and upside surprises, market tend to

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Speaker 1: go up and climb the wall of worry. Um. That

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Speaker 1: having been said, you know, when you have a FED

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Speaker 1: that comes out and says, hey, you know, we don't

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Speaker 1: think that, uh, that the economy is going to be

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Speaker 1: back to where it was in January until the end

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Speaker 1: of two I mean, my goodness, that's two and a

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Speaker 1: half years from now. Uh. That's a pretty sobering statement,

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Speaker 1: uh from the Fed. And I think, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: for folks who are more conservative who've sat in the

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Speaker 1: bond market, uh, you know, trying to take shelter, probably

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Speaker 1: heard those messages and said, you know, holy gosh, you know,

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Speaker 1: he the FED doesn't think we're going to get out

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Speaker 1: of this anytime soon. So where what are you suggesting

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Speaker 1: to your clients that they as as they think about

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Speaker 1: perhaps even allocating some new capital. Is it a typical

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Speaker 1: sixty forty allocation or you perhaps be a little bit

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Speaker 1: more cautious now. So we're on the other side of that.

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Speaker 1: So again, you know, we're trying to encourage folks and

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Speaker 1: race through the what we have learned through uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: our history of of investing in markets, and that is

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Speaker 1: uh that you know, uh bull markets, bear markets sent

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Speaker 1: to end when recessions begin. The recession began uh in February. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and we believe we're in the process of, you know,

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Speaker 1: forming a bottom in this recession, and the market is

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Speaker 1: setting up uh for a new bowl market. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: that ball market UH is probably going to behave the

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Speaker 1: way others have coming out of a recession, which is

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Speaker 1: a preference for early cyclicals things like financial industrials, materials,

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Speaker 1: transport to energy UH. And those are the types of

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Speaker 1: areas that are not excessively overvalued today, but where we

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Speaker 1: do think that there's upside surprise that could come. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, we are encouraging folks UH to take

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Speaker 1: some risk here and balance those conservative portfolios, many of

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Speaker 1: which on the stock side have been loaded up with

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Speaker 1: the usual names and you all know what they are,

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Speaker 1: the right tech stocks. Very basicly though, Lisa, if it's

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Speaker 1: not your typical recession, then will the market perform in

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Speaker 1: the typical pollst recession away after this? Uh? So, I

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Speaker 1: guess my response to that is there's never a typical recession.

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Speaker 1: And so while the economic composition of every every single

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Speaker 1: recession is different, and where the excess is and where

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Speaker 1: the stress points are and where the victims are UH

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Speaker 1: is always different, the market playbook UH tends to be

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Speaker 1: very very very similar. UH. And that's what we're trying

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Speaker 1: to tell clients is, yes, you know, maybe in the

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Speaker 1: last recession we were worried about financials and housing. In

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Speaker 1: the one before that, we were worried about the tech wreck. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, perhaps this one we're worried about, you know,

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Speaker 1: parts of consumer discretionary in retail that are structurally impaired.

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Speaker 1: But never the last. We are going to have an

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Speaker 1: economic recovery and the markets probably very similar way. Lisa,

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Speaker 1: thanks for joining us this morning. That's Lisa's Challotte see

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Speaker 1: io of Wealth Management at Morgan Stanley. Of course, client assets,

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Speaker 1: they're totally nearly two and a half trillion dollars, so

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Speaker 1: a lot of money to put to work. Now. I

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Speaker 1: want to bring in our next guest for a fascinating

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Speaker 1: discussion on a certain book that has come to the

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Speaker 1: attention of publishers all over the world. It's it's coming out.

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Speaker 1: Apparently pre orders are through the roof, and there's also

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Speaker 1: a movement asking people not to buy the book. Of course,

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Speaker 1: talking about the book that John Bolton has written about

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Speaker 1: his time in the administration seventeen months as a National

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Speaker 1: security adviser. Let's bring in somebody who can talk to

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Speaker 1: this for us. Bloomberg New Economy Editorial Director Andy Brown. Andy,

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Speaker 1: thanks for joining. Good be with you. How much heft

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Speaker 1: does John Bolton have as a critic of President Trump.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's always been a man of a little

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Speaker 1: bit of bluster from time to time, partial to some

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Speaker 1: dramatic moments, you could say, will it have an impact

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Speaker 1: on concrete things like pulling like voters? Um. I think

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Speaker 1: this is why the book is so sensational, UM, and

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Speaker 1: why people are taking these allegations so seriously that you know,

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Speaker 1: Bolton um has enormous credibility as a hawk. Um. He

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Speaker 1: is an uber hook on China, on North Korea, on Iran, UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, when he has a record of administer of

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Speaker 1: being in successive Republican administrations. I mean this, this is

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Speaker 1: not some liberal tossing accusations that at Trump. This is

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Speaker 1: somebody who was by his side as his National Security

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Speaker 1: director for seventeen months, and he was privy to all

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Speaker 1: of the conversations or many of the conversations that he

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Speaker 1: had with heads of state all over the world, including

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Speaker 1: China's Ji Jimping. Let's go there, Andy. You know, they're

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Speaker 1: interesting excerpts I've read about President Trump, you know, effectively

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Speaker 1: begging for China to buy farm products US farm products

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Speaker 1: to improve Presidents Trump's chances with those farm states in

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Speaker 1: the election. What are some of your takeaways on the

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Speaker 1: aspects of the book that have been reported as it

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Speaker 1: relates to China. It's it's it's absolutely devastating. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if if what Bolton is saying is true, it is

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Speaker 1: absolutely devastating for Donald Trump. I mean, a major plank

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Speaker 1: in his re election campaign was supposed to be tough

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Speaker 1: on China in contrast to Joe Biden, who is supposed

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Speaker 1: to be feckless and weak. And in fact, the account

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Speaker 1: of John Balton shows a US president who is a

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Speaker 1: pushover in almost every on almost every issue, uh, in

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Speaker 1: the U S. China relationship that matters, whether that national security,

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Speaker 1: whether that's trade, whether that's human rights, whether that's Hong

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Speaker 1: Kong Um. He comes across as as you say, is

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Speaker 1: an absolute supplicant begging Jim paying to buy you as

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Speaker 1: agricultural products so that he could win the next election.

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Speaker 1: If John Bolden felt so strongly about this though, and

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Speaker 1: felt that these revelations were so explosive as to really

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Speaker 1: dent the president's credibility, why didn't he testify in the

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Speaker 1: impeachment proceedings? Yeah, exactly, I mean that's a good point,

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Speaker 1: and and and clearly that that that's that's where he's weak,

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Speaker 1: and that's why the Democrats are hopping mad so, I mean,

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Speaker 1: his his his accusation against the Democrats is that they

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Speaker 1: focused their impeachment to narrowly on Ukraine. And if only

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Speaker 1: they had known about the that the breadth of this, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, effort to basically sell American interest in in

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Speaker 1: return for private political favor that you know, this might

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Speaker 1: have got the president impeached. Um so, I mean if

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Speaker 1: he had all this, why didn't he dish earlier during

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Speaker 1: the impeachment process and instead of waiting for his lucrative

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Speaker 1: book contract two million bucks with Simon and Schusters. So

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Speaker 1: it does, it does to an extent undermine the the

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Speaker 1: his central accusations. So Andy, as it relates to China, here,

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Speaker 1: what do you think the Chinese are rooting for in

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Speaker 1: the November presidential election? Did they want former years of

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Speaker 1: President Donald Trump? I think they'd be very happy to

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Speaker 1: have another four years of Donald Trump. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: know this is this is they had pegged him right

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Speaker 1: from the start as as as a leader who would

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Speaker 1: be susceptible to inducements, uh, to flattery. Um he was

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Speaker 1: a businessman. He was transactional, and according to Bolton's account,

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Speaker 1: that is precisely the way things have have turned out.

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Speaker 1: And look, it's not just my opinion. We have some

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Speaker 1: very good reporting out of out of our Beijing bureau

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Speaker 1: um uh, you know. Um Pete Martin wrote a story

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Speaker 1: he had interviewed a whole bunch of senior, current and

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Speaker 1: retired Chinese government officials. They said, we want Trump uh.

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Speaker 1: And the reason they cited is that Trump under minds

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Speaker 1: US alliances and that is the one thing that the

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Speaker 1: Chinese fear that is their biggest to them, their biggest threat.

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Speaker 1: It is the US alliance instruction. And of course, I

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Speaker 1: mean it is true what Bolton says, this sort of

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Speaker 1: transactional nature. Putting everything on the table, including Huawei, including Zte,

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Speaker 1: including the wig, is just tossing it all into the

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Speaker 1: into the into into the part subsuming everything to getting

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Speaker 1: a trade deal, in trading relations with um you know,

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Speaker 1: with with with China. This is deeply corrosive of the

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Speaker 1: trust that underpins US alliances all around the world, including

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Speaker 1: in Asia. Maybe I'll be a little cynical, but it

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Speaker 1: doesn't make it more likely that we will actually get

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Speaker 1: a trade deal with China now, because both sides will

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Speaker 1: be sort of falling over themselves to prove that there

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Speaker 1: was there was no back room dealings and therefore you

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Speaker 1: know that the two countries can get on well in public. Again,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's really hard to read. I mean, just

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Speaker 1: had this meeting in Hawaii between um, you know, Segre

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Speaker 1: State Pompeo and Young Jetro, China's top diplomat. UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: trade would have trade, trade would have been on the table.

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Speaker 1: We don't really know what the outcome of those talks was,

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Speaker 1: although it doesn't appear to have to have it achieved

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Speaker 1: anything that looks like a breakthrough, at least nothing that

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Speaker 1: that that either side have announced. UM. It's also notable

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Speaker 1: by the way that Robert Lightheiser, the chief US trade negotiator,

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Speaker 1: has denied UM some of the more explosive claims that

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Speaker 1: John Bolton made in his book. Yeah, and those China

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Speaker 1: claims were just the beginning of it. And our thanks

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Speaker 1: to you Andy Brown, editorial director for Bloomberg New Economy,

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Speaker 1: for joining us there. Bolton saying Trump not fit for

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Speaker 1: office and and lacks the competence to service president in

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Speaker 1: part because he's solely focused on his political fortunes. I

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Speaker 1: don't know many presidents for him, that's not a priority

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Speaker 1: either though. Also, we've been reporting this morning a historic

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Speaker 1: day from the Supreme Court on the immigration issue. A

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Speaker 1: divided US Supreme Court stopped President Donald Trump from ending

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Speaker 1: the Obama era program that shields young undocumented immigrants from

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Speaker 1: deportation and lets them seek jobs. To take down deep

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Speaker 1: into this, we're very fortunate to have our good friend

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Speaker 1: June Grasso joined us June as a legal analyst and

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Speaker 1: host of Bloomberg Law. You can hear that weekdays at

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Speaker 1: ten pm Wall Street Time. June, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us here. Give us your quick thoughts on this

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Speaker 1: five four decision out of the Supreme Court. Well, this

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Speaker 1: is the second time this week that the Court has

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Speaker 1: ruled against the Trump administration. And this is a case

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Speaker 1: where Justice Chief Justice John Roberts sided with the four

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Speaker 1: liberals in the court. So it's a five to four decision,

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Speaker 1: and he basically said that no one's arguing that the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration could terminate the DOCTA program. Everyone agrees it can,

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Speaker 1: but they went about it in the wrong way. They

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Speaker 1: didn't provide a reasoned explanation for why they were doing this.

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Speaker 1: The way they acted was arbitrary and capricious. This is

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Speaker 1: a decision that we have been waiting for. It's the

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Speaker 1: it's the decision that we've been waiting for the longest.

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Speaker 1: It was argued early in the term, so you see,

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Speaker 1: it took a long time because there are so many

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Speaker 1: different opinions. There's not only the decent and the majority opinion.

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Speaker 1: There are concurrences, concurrencies in part, the scents in part.

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Speaker 1: It's really complicated. So the line that I took from

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Speaker 1: a tune was the appropriate recourse is therefore to remand

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Speaker 1: to DHS so that it may consider the problem and

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Speaker 1: new Does this mean that the Department of Holman Security

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Speaker 1: will actually consider it, make better arguments and the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Warrant won't have any objection at that point. Well, they

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Speaker 1: could do that. This is what the chief said. You

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Speaker 1: can take it back again and you can redo it.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is that would take a long time

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Speaker 1: because they'd have to come up with some reasoned explanation.

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Speaker 1: They have to follow the rules, so it's unlocked. They

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Speaker 1: could do that within the end of the Trump term,

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Speaker 1: if he's elected to a second term. They can try

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Speaker 1: to do that and come up with better explanations that

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Speaker 1: will satisfy the Court that they've really thought this through.

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Speaker 1: But this sort of reminds you of the Census case

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Speaker 1: where the Supreme Court's kicking it down the road, saying, okay,

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Speaker 1: you guys, take it back. Now, we're done with this

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Speaker 1: and we'll see what you do next. So cho and

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Speaker 1: for legal analysts like yourself, a Supreme Court watchers, how surprising,

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Speaker 1: if at all, is it that how Justice Robert's voted here? Well,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was surprising. This was a case that

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Speaker 1: we didn't really have an inkling of how it was

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Speaker 1: going to go. In other words, the case earlier this

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Speaker 1: week on LGBT rights, that was a case where during

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Speaker 1: the oral arguments you could sort of tell that justice

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Speaker 1: course which might be leaning in the direction of um

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Speaker 1: gay rights. However, with this case, it was very hard

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Speaker 1: to tell what was going on. So I was very surprised.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people we're very surprised. And

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Speaker 1: also it's always surprising when you see the Chief Justice

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Speaker 1: John Roberts is now the swing vote that Anthony Kennedy was,

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Speaker 1: and in the two cases this week he sided with

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Speaker 1: the three liberals. Yeah, I mean, there's a whole range

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Speaker 1: of things to be surprised at, not least that this

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Speaker 1: was a five four decision as well. June remind us

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Speaker 1: exactly how many people and who were talking about these

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Speaker 1: are the Dreamers, almost seven thousand kids that were born

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Speaker 1: here that would have had to leave if this wasn't upheld. Right,

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Speaker 1: and President Barack Obama started this program that allows them

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Speaker 1: to continue to work and find a way towards citizenship.

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Speaker 1: President Trump said that it was not within his legal authority,

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Speaker 1: president Obama's legal authority to have this program, so he

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Speaker 1: ended it. So right now, the Dreamers have been in

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Speaker 1: this sort of no man's land for so many months,

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Speaker 1: and right now they can go on with the program,

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Speaker 1: they can re up for more of the program. They

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Speaker 1: can feel comfortable that they're not going to be deported,

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Speaker 1: and that's the big thing. There was this question of

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Speaker 1: whether if the Supreme Court had said that this DOCTA

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Speaker 1: decision was absolutely right and the Trump could go ahead,

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Speaker 1: then the question was would these six hundred and seventies

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Speaker 1: seven hundred thousand young immigrants be deported And some of them, remember,

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Speaker 1: don't even speak another language. They've been here so long

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Speaker 1: they are American citizens, most of them are well employed,

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Speaker 1: so it's it would be really it would be a

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Speaker 1: torturous debate and it would really be controversial thing that

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Speaker 1: would again cause you know, disruptions in the country. And

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Speaker 1: I guess if if if it had gone the other way,

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Speaker 1: then the potential was there for literally seven hundred thousand,

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Speaker 1: you know, all but American and name kids to be deported,

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Speaker 1: Uh you know a S A P. Just as Karence Thomas,

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Speaker 1: Samuel Alito, Neil Gorza, gen Bred Kavanaugh all dissented. Yes,

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Speaker 1: now Clarence Thomas. Justice Thomas said that this was an

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Speaker 1: effort to avoid a politically controversial but legally correct decision.

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Speaker 1: So he said, this would find future administrations to what

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Speaker 1: prior presidents doing executive order. So think about all the

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Speaker 1: executive orders that President Trump has written and issued. Should

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Speaker 1: the next president be bound by those? But of course,

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Speaker 1: you know that's that's the legal issue. But Chief Justice

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Speaker 1: Roberts said that that's not really the case because it's

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Speaker 1: just a question of how they did it. And this

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Speaker 1: happens all the time to the Trump administration in the

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Speaker 1: courts on environmental issues. They don't follow the rules when

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Speaker 1: they do these things. June, we have to give you go,

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Speaker 1: but thank you do so. Legal analyst and host of

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Local. Thanks for listening to Boomberg Markets podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or

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Speaker 1: whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Bonnie Quinn. I'm on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at Bonny Quinn. And Paul Sweeney I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast. You can always catch

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Speaker 1: us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio m