WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - January 10th, 2025 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:13.680 Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts, Radio News. Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts, 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.000 Radio News. 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:20.799 This is Bloomberg Business Week Insight from the reporters and 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:24.960 editors that bring you America's most trusted business magazine plus 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.920 global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:33.879 Podcast with Carol Masser and Tim Stenovek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.560 Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Wee Weekend Podcast. 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.599 Well it was a busy busy week as we got 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.920 the FED minutes from the last meeting of twenty twenty 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.920 four and the final jobs report of the year twenty 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.120 twenty four. Again. Also is showing of the latest gadgets 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.120 and tech and trends at CES in Las Vegas, of 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:55.360 which Nvidia's CEO Jensen Wong was a highlight but did 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.640 not impress investors. Plus a huge story the wildfires in 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:00.920 southern California. We spent a lot of time this past 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.200 week talking about it. A lot going on for the 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.280 latest onm THEI fires, and all of the top business 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.080 and economic stories. Of course, you can always head to 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.160 the Bloomberg End to Bloomberg dot com. 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:13.360 Carol, you mentioned in Nvidia and yet another megacap tech 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:15.840 name was on our mind this past week, and that 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.759 was Apple, the world's largest company my market value. It's 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.600 kind of like sometimes the world's largest company. Sometimes not 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.119 one too to say it's like among the world's largest companies. 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.280 It got a rare cell call from one prominent tech 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:33.240 and media stock analyst, and yet set analyst still likes 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:35.320 the company. More on that a little. 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:36.039 Bit later, all right. 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.520 Plus Carnival CEO Josh Weinstein on what the cruise line 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.000 Giant can do for an encore on the heels of 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.000 strong quarterly earnings to cap off twenty twenty four. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.640 And details on how to discover flavor and savor life. 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.520 It's all in a new book by professional taste tester. Yes, 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.040 it's a thing, Mandy Naglige. 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.360 All right, all of this to come. We begin with 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:01.120 that rare Apple downgrade. The call came from Mofatt Nathanson's 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:04.120 Craig Moffat, a long time and known analyst in the 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.400 media and content distribution space. 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.679 This is largely a evaluation call, so I want to 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.799 be clear Apple, we wouldn't argue with anyone who says 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:17.600 Apple is a great company. We think that their AI 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:22.120 strategy is a very sound strategy. I love the appeal 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:27.359 of the fact that Apple has a low capital intensity 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:31.239 approach to AI, that they have the trust of customers. 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:31.320 And on and on. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:34.200 They have a lot of advantages. No one would dispute that. 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.359 But it's trading at thirty three and a half time's earnings. 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.000 And one way to think about it is just think 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:44.320 about the peg ratio, if you will, the ratio of 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:48.280 growth rate of the multiple to growth rate. 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.079 It's trading at a PEG ratio north of three. 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.519 The rest of the MAG seven trades at a PEG 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.640 ratio of around two. So you're talking about a fifty 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:02.040 percent premium even to the peers of within the MAG seven. 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:04.040 That just doesn't make sense. 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.360 Given what are some very material risks, and you mentioned 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:07.880 some of them. 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:10.840 China is a very real risk. 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:15.200 Not just because the Chinese government, for obvious reasons, is 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:20.320 going to be disinclined to allow Western language models in China, 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.800 so you're going to have to have a domestic partner 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.320 and share economics with them, but also because the Chinese 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:30.600 handset competitors have gotten much stronger. Another risk that is 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.360 not discounted in the stock price at all is the 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.840 anti trust risk. And here I'm not talking about the 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:40.080 anti trust risk in the cases against Apple, although there 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.440 are plenty of them. The real anti trust risk that's 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:47.640 very proximate is the risk in the Google case, where. 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.080 Explain explain that risk to Apple? How is that? How 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:50.760 is Apple at risk? 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:55.240 Because twenty five percent of Apple's operating income comes from 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:59.080 payments from Google, and the judge in the Google case 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.040 has specific said those payments are illegal. Now, you can 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:07.760 imagine that there are outcomes where where they still pay 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.520 some or all of that, but you can't pretend that 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.760 there's no risk at all when the judge has already 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.600 said that Google is guilty and the payments they make 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.479 to Apple are illegal. I mean, that's twenty five percent 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.880 of apples operating income. It's it's twenty five billion dollars 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.480 a year. And again, I love Apple just as much 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.919 as everybody else, but there are very real risks that 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:34.520 are simply not appropriately discounted in the multiple that Apple 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:36.559 is being awarded right now in the market. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:38.680 I want to zero in on the China risk and 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.760 what exactly is because this is a story we've been 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.000 talking about for years. At this point, Craig like concern 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.400 that you know, Chinese consumers are not going to buy 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:49.640 as many Apple devices as they have previously. Switching costs 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.440 are pretty switching barriers are pretty low in China because 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:54.400 of these you know, over the top third party apps. 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:56.800 People don't get locked into the iOS ecosystem like they 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.359 do in other countries because if we chat, et cetera. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:01.480 So what's going on in China in your view? 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:05.000 Well, I think the biggest thing that's going on in 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:10.360 China is that the other handset manufacturers, Huawei and Honor 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.920 and so on, have gotten much better. If you went 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.880 back to the last big iPhone cycle, which was the 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:24.800 five G cycle in circa twenty twenty one, the Apple 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:29.800 competitors at the time were significantly weaker than they are today. 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:34.800 And interestingly, Huawei in particular, because the government of the 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.840 US put sanctions. 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.960 On Huawei and limited Huawei's. 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:44.880 Access to chipsets and that sort of thing, Huawei has 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.839 had to sort of reinvent itself with domestic technology, and 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.920 they've done a really good job. The handsets that they 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:56.640 make are now fully competitive. They are not a replacement 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.040 for Apple. I'm not suggesting that they are, but they 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.720 have a really co petitive offering, and so the market 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:05.800 share opportunity for Apple is simply not what it was 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.440 in the last big cycle. But you also have this 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:13.480 time the government's thumb on the scales. And there's a 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:15.560 couple of ways for that. One is, as I said, 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:18.719 you're simply not going to have the Chinese Communist Party 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:24.360 saying it is acceptable to have Western lms answering questions 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:28.800 like what happened at Tanneman Square. So you're going to 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:33.520 have to have domestic partners in order to be able 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:38.880 to offer AI, and that means a different margin structure. 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:39.640 And what have you. 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:44.840 You also have a very real risk from tariffs. And 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:49.760 it's not just in fact, not even primarily that Apple 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.360 itself imports almost all of its components, and in fact 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:57.720 today imports all of its handsets, mostly from China because 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.320 they're assembled there. Even if you even if they are 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.640 exempted as they were during the last Trump administration, you 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:10.600 have the risk of retaliatory tariffs in response to American 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.960 tariffs that could be related to the auto market or 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:21.080 completely unrelated categories, but where foreign governments respond by putting 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:25.840 tariffs on a company that is obviously quite highly identified. 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:25.960 With the US. 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.800 So again I don't want to suggest that any of 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.480 these risks are base case risks. 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.360 It's not like there's a. 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:36.920 Sixty or seventy percent chance that any one of them 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.280 will happen. But if you have all of these potential risks, 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.600 all of which are not shouldn't be described as sort 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.160 of a tail risks. 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:46.360 These are really. 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.680 Real possibilities in all of these cases that there are 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:54.400 negative outcomes, and they ought to be reflected in the 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.840 multiple of the stock with a more sober multiple, and 0:07:57.880 --> 0:07:58.800 they simply are. 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.240 Not craig A device is not seen as having the 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:06.120 same allure to the Chinese consumer as they once did. 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.320 You know, I don't know that that's the case. 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.560 There is still Apple is still a brand with real 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:13.480 cachet in. 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.280 China. But you know, remember you now have. 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:25.280 Huawei introduced a trifold phone, for example, where you have 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.880 Samsung devices that have had foldable screens for a long 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:35.760 time coming in from from Korea. So the gap between 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.640 Apple and its competitors is not what it once was. 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.440 There's just there's simply no way to argue that's that's. 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:42.839 Not the case. 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:46.360 You know your report, You know, pundents, you have watched 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:48.720 Apple stockgrind higher of the last several months, have shrugged 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.040 off the appreciation as a melt up on known news. 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.240 But that's not quite right. And you know, there has 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:54.480 been a lot of news, right, it's just. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:56.560 All been bad. Why them melt up? Then? 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.760 Why does everybody I don't know, maybe it's a stupid question, 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:04.840 but why does everybody continue to chase it and send 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.240 it higher when there are some real threats in terms of, 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:12.440 as you said, the DOJ case against Google that would 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.320 really take out a big chunk of kind of the 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:18.120 financial or the balance sheet right of that company of 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:21.360 Apple specifically. So why does everybody kind of continue to 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.719 support it? Why do they chase it? Why is there 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:24.400 the melt up? 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.400 You know, it's a great question. Now, first I should 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:28.439 be clear, you know. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.920 Although the stock has climbed higher and higher over the 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.160 last few months, it's only traded in line. 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:34.640 With the market. 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:38.679 So to some degree, this is an indictment of the 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:42.480 way the market overall is pricing equities right now, particularly 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:46.440 in the face of rising interest rates in therefore appropriately 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:47.520 higher discount rates. 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.199 It's but I suspect Carol. 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:55.120 That the real issue here is is that there is 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:58.840 this narrative that Apple is the quote unquote safe choice 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:02.280 among the magsat and that it is such a strong 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:06.320 consumer brand, has such an unassailable franchise that it's the 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:12.199 safe place to be. And while that's absolutely true operationally, 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:14.760 it's not a safe place to be if it's trading 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.080 at thirty three times earnings. It's a safe place to 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:21.080 be if it's appropriately valued, but it's if it's already 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:26.320 being awarded an extraordinarily high multiple. Nothing safe about that, 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.080 even if it is a very strong business model. 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:30.839 So if it gets down to one eighty eight that's 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:32.800 your price target, do you change your rating and do 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.280 you say, okay, now you can come in and buy, 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:36.400 or do you kind of still wait and see. 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:38.920 Well, we would certainly say that what you want to 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:40.400 get to is you want to get to a price 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.880 where it's fairly valued, and if it gets below that, 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.120 then there's actually an opportunity to buy it. And I 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.679 certainly wouldn't argue that Apple doesn't deserve an attractive valuation. 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:50.800 It's a great company. 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.240 It's just that when you start to get to thirty 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.240 three times earnings, and again a peg ratio of north 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:02.520 of three, that implies is that the market has already 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:07.320 priced in an enormous amount of potential good news, and 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:10.440 so you'd have to see something quite extraordinary to be 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:15.440 able to say that over the next call it, one, two, 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:19.040 three years, that the stock can actually deliver attractive returns 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:20.600 given this starting point. 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.400 Okay, Craig, while we have you, you don't just cover Apple, 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.480 you also cover Comcast, Echo, Star, Charter, Altie, S, Verizon, 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:31.120 and more. Charter Communications. It's your top pick for twenty 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:35.400 twenty five, despite cord cutting accelerating, despite what's happening to PATV, 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:36.720 Why is it your top pick? 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.160 You know, it's funny in some ways. 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:42.240 It is the exact antithesis of what we were just 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.680 talking about with Apple. Charter and the cable stocks have 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.319 been given up for dead, and so they are extraordinarily 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:55.559 attractive valuations. And a company like Charter, remember Charter was 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:57.360 one of the best performing stocks in the S and 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.680 P for a decade. It was out twenty refold. I 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.760 think over a decade when. 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:05.880 It was buying back a ton of stock and. 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:12.760 Had a really attractive levered equity return strategy. They suspended 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.400 that strategy for a while in order to invest really 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:21.240 aggressively in rural buildouts, and the market has seen the 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.320 free cash flow yield go down during. 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:24.480 That capital investment cycle. 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.920 You could argue that those are actually pretty good investments, 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:32.000 but the market hasn't found them as exciting as the 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.280 old strategy of buying back stock. Well, they've already said 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.520 they're largely getting to the end of that strategy, and 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:42.120 so they will as CAPEC starts to come down, they're 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:44.840 going to resume their stock buybacks in a very big way. 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.400 And it's a company that we see growing in the 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:52.320 load of mid single digits. Not sexy, but by the way, 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.640 that's what Apple is growing as well, but growing in 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.679 the load of call it low single digits. But it's 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:04.240 priced for negative perpetual growth. And by our twenty twenty 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:09.080 eight free cash flow estimate, we have this thing trading 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:13.360 at a something like thirty three percent free cash flow 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:18.200 yield on twenty twenty eight. That's an absurd, absurd valuation, 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.400 and so I just think it's way too cheap and 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.480 a really exciting opportunity at this price. 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:27.480 Hey Craig, just one last question. You know, it's funny 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.400 coming off the Golden Globes, I was kind of like, 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.720 oh my God, it's just content coming from just all 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.280 these different places and streaming and regular teeth. 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:35.400 It's just kind of nuts. 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.920 But I am curious as we look at where content's 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:42.480 coming in particular streaming other than Netflix. Do you think 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:47.600 the legacy media companies can navigate the change towards streaming. 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:48.040 In a clear way? 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.560 And unfortunately just got about forty five seconds. 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.880 Well, it depends what you mean by can they navigate it? 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.760 Will they survive? Of course? Will it ever be as 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.120 good a business as the old legacy cable network business 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.480 was and it's heyday. No, it's just not going to 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.880 be as attractive a business because it's so much easier 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:12.080 for customers to churn. That creates a less attractive revenue profile, 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.440 a less attractive cost profile. 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:16.520 But you will still have. 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.400 Winners, and they may not be winners on the scale 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.440 of Netflix. But Disney is still going to be all 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.320 right in the streaming business. Again, it's just not going 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.560 to be as good as the business that they are 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:28.280 leaving behind. 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.080 Thank you, thank you so much. Really really enjoyed this, 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.400 and happy New Year to you. I really appreciate it. 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:38.080 Craig Moffatt, founding partner and senior Alist Debret Moffatt Nathanson 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:39.760 joining us right here in New York City. If you 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:41.200 missed any of it, be sure to check out our 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:42.920 podcast feed a little bit later on. You can find 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:43.720 it at Blomberg dot com. 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:44.920 I'm on the Bloomberg. 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.920 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.440 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.880 on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the bloom Business at 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.000 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.280 So we got a big read on the US economy 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.080 this past week. We had that monthly jobs report on Friday. 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.360 We also got fed Minutes on Wednesday. You can read 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.360 all about it. Check out our full coverage on the 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:17.800 Bloomberg terminals. Simply type ECoG or head over to Bloomberg 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:18.360 dot com. 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.720 Another way that we gauge US economic activity is through 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:25.520 what consumers are doing, including spending on leisure and hospitality. 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.720 We recently got a reading on that when Carnival released earnings. 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.880 The company expects record levels of cruise demand this year, 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:33.560 with no signs of a slowdown in sight. 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.280 For more on the business of leisure and cruises in particular, 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:40.080 we recently cut up with Josh Weinstein. He's the president, CEO, 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.560 and chief Climate officer of Carnival. We talked to him 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.600 just after the company reported earnings in late December. He 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.400 kicked things off by sharing context on the business. 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:51.960 If you look at where we are today versus same 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:56.240 time last year, we are higher in occupancy, higher in prices. 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:57.360 As a matter of fact, it's. 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.240 Historical levels for both for each of the four quarters 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.920 for twenty twenty five. So, as I heard you saying 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:09.520 before I came on, the demand for our cruises is pretty. 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:13.200 Phenomenal typically this time of year, Josh, how much of 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.920 the following year is booked? How different is this than 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:18.040 historical averages. 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:22.720 We don't give that out for various competitive reasons, but 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.680 I'd say it's nicely it's nicely higher. To give you 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:27.800 a sense of the momentum, you know, if you think 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.160 about what was our booking activity, how much activity did 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.800 we generate in the last quarter, So from the period 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:38.520 of September through the end of November, that beat last 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.240 year even though we had less to sell. So we 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.080 sold more for twenty twenty five, and we sold it 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:47.960 at higher prices versus same time last year. And at 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.920 the same time we set a record for booking activity 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:52.840 for the following year out so in this case twenty 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:58.000 twenty six. So things are moving really positively across the board. 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.360 And the great thing is this is broad based. So 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:03.720 when we look back at twenty twenty four and we 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.719 look at our portfolio of world class brands, we were 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:11.480 actually higher mid single digit to mid teens percentage wise 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.679 in our yields, in the revenue we generate for person 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.720 per day across all of our major brands, all of 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:18.640 our major trades. 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:20.360 So it's really gratifying the. 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.520 Team, our global team has done a phenomenal job and 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:25.680 really a shout out to each and every one of 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:26.679 them from doing what they do. 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.200 Okay, this maybe sounds a little bit stupid, but why 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:30.360 do you think this is happening? 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.480 I mean, and I'm just curious what is it? 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:34.560 Tell us attle bit about it and remind us, because 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.560 you do have a portfolio of brands and it reaches 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.960 across different consumers if you will, of your brand. So 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.760 give us an idea of why you think you are 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:46.879 still seeing kind of record bookings. 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.240 Will need an hour, right, I mean, there's so many reasons. 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.720 You know the principle and I remember I remember being 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.520 on with you a year ago and talking about what 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.880 we'll call the price to experience ratio, and the price 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.679 to experience ratio of a cruise versus the price and 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:06.960 what you pay for a land. 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.040 Based alternative is nuts, right. 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.320 I mean, the value that you get from a cruise 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.199 for what we provide is night and day to what 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.000 you can get on land. And people are recognizing that, 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.400 and so we are catching a net much wider into 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.280 the general population for people who will now consider cruising 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.359 as a vacation alternative, people who have never cruised before. 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:31.520 As a matter of fact, in twenty twenty four, we 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.720 had over ten percent more new to cruise than we 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:39.320 did the prior year, So becoming more mainstream, breaking down myths, 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.399 and that value gap is real. So we can still 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.680 increase our pricing as we've been doing the last few 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:48.800 years and be an incredible value. And I tell you 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.399 there's so many things that our teams are doing better 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.399 and better every single day, from how we manage the 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.639 revenue curve right, the yield curve between the time we 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.400 launched two and a half years in advance the time 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.640 we sail. Our marketing is amazing, Our brand is doing 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.359 a better, better job of creative marketing, getting in the 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:10.720 consideration set and then performance marketing and make sure we 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.080 close the deal and get the booking, you name it. 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.159 We could talk about it all day, but everything is 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:17.880 moving in a positive direction. 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:18.439 You know. 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.560 I got to say, Josh, there's so much coming at us, 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:23.640 and so many individuals and leaders CEOs that we talked 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:25.359 to say, you know what, We're kind of holding off 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.560 until we get an idea clear picture of what happens 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.119 in twenty twenty five. You are obviously optimistic. You see 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:33.720 numbers and data in real time in terms of bookings, 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:36.600 But I am curious about the upcoming White House. 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.000 Is it good, bad, or neutral for your business? 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.560 You know, we had a great relationship with the Trump 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.919 administration the first time around. We had great relationship with 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.960 the Biden team, and I expected that great relationship. We'll 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.920 pick up with President Trump again. So you know, our 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.480 job is to deliver amazing vacation experiences to millions of 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:55.920 guests a. 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:56.840 Year around the world. 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.000 That is what we do, and we do it very well, 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.119 and every single year there is something right because we 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:07.480 are global and the macroeconomy and the geopolitics are what 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.399 they are. When I was with you a year ago today, 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.480 we didn't have Red Sea on the radar screen. The 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:18.840 Baltimore Bridge hadn't collapsed, you know, hurricanes hadn't hadn't done 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:22.720 the damage that they did in the United States, government 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.640 elections getting thrown for a loop in Europe like the 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.000 UK and now Germany. None of that was on the 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.399 radar screen and we outperformed our December guidance by seven 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:35.040 hundred million dollars. Our job is to deliver no matter 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.600 what the world might bring, and we'll continue to do that. 0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:40.560 So I do wonder when you look at twenty twenty five, 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:45.920 what macroeconomic factors, what geopolitical factors concern you the most? Josh, 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.720 you know when you think about the company's twenty twenty 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:51.119 five performance potential? 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:54.840 Oh man, you know, sorry'm asking you. 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.000 Yeah, that's all right. I'm not going to single anything out. 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.679 I mean, like I said, at our job is to deliver. 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:06.600 We deal with whatever the world might bring. We are nimble. 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:10.119 Our team is amazing at reacting as they need to. 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:11.600 But more importantly, we are. 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:13.879 Proactively doing what we need to do to position our 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.080 ships with our guests the right way and delivering on board, 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:20.360 so the world of turn crises will come and go 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:21.600 and people will keep cruising. 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.399 You've been President's CEO Chief Climate Officer since August of 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:28.160 twenty twenty two, so you've been in this position for a. 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:29.000 Couple of years. 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.359 Relative to the last couple of years, how would you 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:37.359 describe the health of the American consumer right now? Same, better, worse. 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:41.960 We're just seeing continued positive momentum. 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.320 So I think it's hard to say anything, but it's 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:46.200 just as good now as it has been for the 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.720 last few years for us, in particular, given the record 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:51.960 yields that we're just coming off of and we're building 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:52.720 on top of that. 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:55.160 And you've got to remember we're a global company. 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:57.920 So yes, the United States is the biggest cruise market 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.480 by far, and we're doing incredibly well in the United States, 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.199 but we are also the biggest in the United Kingdom, 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:06.879 the biggest in Germany, second biggest thing in Italy, second 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:08.760 biggest in Spain, Brazil. 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.160 So we have an incredible global presence. 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:14.520 And the fact is economic cycles come and go, prises 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.440 come and go, macroeconomics will flow different times in different 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:21.400 places around the world. So our portfolio approach of being 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:24.400 in these phenomenal markets really serves as a great hedge 0:22:24.480 --> 0:22:27.639 for us because things will come in their cycles and 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:29.000 leave their cycles at different times. 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:31.360 So, of those geographic markets that you mentioned, even those 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:33.600 that you didn't mention, where you do operate, where you 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:37.320 do play, where are you most bullish? 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:37.840 Where am I not? 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:38.760 You? 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:42.080 You know, if you think about cruising right and you 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:44.800 think about our brands, we're about a third of the market. 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:46.679 Let's just say, in broad terms, if you take the 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:49.440 whole cruise market and you put it into a bucket 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:51.880 with all of the vacation alternatives at the same time, 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:55.280 we're about two to three percent of the overall vacation market. 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:58.679 And so how can you not be bullish when we 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:02.600 are so underpinnished traded as a global industry. I mean, 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:05.239 it is remarkable what inroads we can make by just 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:08.639 getting people who have never cruised before to consider cruising. 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:09.440 I'll tell you what. 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:14.040 I don't know a Disney strategy anymore than anybody else 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:15.760 does from the outside. But I do know that they 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:19.919 talked awful lot lately about reducing the investment in their 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:24.400 land because they want to build more investment into cruise 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:26.560 and double the size of their fleet. I think that 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:29.359 is very, very telling, and I think it's a brilliant idea. 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:32.440 Okay, and you guys have invested in your fleet. 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:34.240 And I'm also curious about you know, when I did 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:35.960 a deep dive on the company and I got off 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:39.159 at Grand Turk, you guys have a port there, and 0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:43.080 I am curious about these offshore destinations for Carnival travelers. 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:46.679 How significant is the July twenty twenty five opening of 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:51.040 your Celebration Key private island destination to the companies full 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:53.920 your revenue outlook, I am curious about how this moves 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:57.400 the financial needle, these offshore ports that are yours. 0:23:57.640 --> 0:23:59.280 You know that you guys highlight. 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:03.320 Yeah, absolutely, They're a critical piece of our strategy. So 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:08.679 even today without Celebration Key, we've got six jewels in 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:11.720 and around the Caribbean and we carry We took about 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:15.080 six and a half million guests to one of our 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:18.520 destinations in that geography. That's about equal to the rest 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:21.720 of the industry combined with theirs. On top of this, 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.160 we've got Celebration Key, which is going to be a 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:27.720 phenomenal guest experience built from the ground up for Carnival 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:31.320 Cruise Line and their idea of fun and just a 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:34.399 wonderful guest experience on board, and there's a lot that 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:36.720 we can go into, but it's going to be phenomenal. 0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:37.040 Now. 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:40.000 With respect to twenty twenty five, there's really not that 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:43.720 much of an impact because we don't open until July 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:46.280 with a handful of cruises and then we build up. 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:49.600 So for the corporation overall, it's only about five percent 0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:52.840 of our itineraries in twenty five we'll touch Celebration Key. 0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:56.000 That ratchets up to about fifteen percent when we get 0:24:56.040 --> 0:25:01.040 to twenty twenty six. On top of this, we've announced 0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:03.479 that we're doing some major investment in one of our 0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:07.240 other existing destinations, traditionally known as Half Moon Key and 0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:11.199 rebranded relax Away at half Moon Key, because it's a 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:16.119 different vibe than Celebration Key. It is a beautiful tropical paradise, 0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:18.800 white sand beaches, and what we want you to do 0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:22.080 there is lean into the beauty and the pristiness of 0:25:22.119 --> 0:25:25.760 that location and the crystal blue waters and relax and 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:28.560 enjoy yourself and unwind. And we're going to be able 0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:32.119 to marry these two types of experiences on the same itinerary, 0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:37.199 so you get the Idyllic and the Ultimate Beach Days 0:25:37.240 --> 0:25:38.520 across those portfolios. 0:25:38.600 --> 0:25:41.520 Our thanks to Josh Weinstein, president and CEO and chief 0:25:41.560 --> 0:25:43.800 Climate officer over at Carnival and. 0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:46.960 Tim, we had another development in the leisure and hospitality space, 0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:50.680 and this had to do with the largest US ski resort. 0:25:51.119 --> 0:25:54.080 What's been their time of year when everybody's out there skiing. 0:25:54.080 --> 0:25:56.840 We're talking about Veil Resorts. Shares did bounce around this 0:25:56.880 --> 0:25:59.680 past week because you did see a bunch of workers 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:04.199 ski patrollers who were out on not working because they 0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:05.720 wanted a new contract, they wanted more money. 0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:07.159 I've been trying to get you to talk about this 0:26:07.200 --> 0:26:09.919 story for close to two weeks. We're finally talking about it, 0:26:09.920 --> 0:26:11.520 which is great, and it's great that the I think 0:26:11.520 --> 0:26:13.960 for a lot of people that this strike has been 0:26:14.240 --> 0:26:16.159 put to an end because I don't know if you 0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:19.359 saw on social media, but back in late December, December 0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:22.159 twenty seventh is when this strike began. You saw this 0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:24.520 playing out. You saw videos of long lift lines, You 0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:26.840 saw big parts of Park City Resort closed as a 0:26:26.840 --> 0:26:30.879 result of them not having the ski patrollers to actually 0:26:30.880 --> 0:26:34.399 patrol and do avalanche control in these areas. And it 0:26:34.440 --> 0:26:37.320 comes at a time when it's one of the most 0:26:37.320 --> 0:26:40.040 crowded times because people are out for the new year, 0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:42.320 they're out for the holidays, they're traveling with their families. 0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:45.679 They're spending, in some cases, Carol, tens of thousands of 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:49.439 dollars to take their families to this mountain resort, and 0:26:49.480 --> 0:26:50.640 they're not having a good experience. 0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:52.680 Well, speaking of money, I mean the Park City Ski 0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:56.560 Professional Ski Patrol Association. They did claim victory in this battle, 0:26:56.600 --> 0:27:00.000 saying in a statement that Veil Resorts, which owns Parks 0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:03.040 Mountain Resort, acceded to its key demands, including a two 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:05.280 dollars an hour base pay increase and raise for some 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:09.000 ski patrollers. So when all right, you're listening to Bloomberg 0:27:09.000 --> 0:27:11.399 Business Week coming up, what the next generation of people 0:27:11.440 --> 0:27:14.240 can expect during their lifetimes, you might want to sit 0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:16.360 down when we hear this conversation. 0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:19.280 Okay, you know gen z. Yeah, there's such thing. There's 0:27:19.560 --> 0:27:22.639 Gen Alpha, which I've learned about. Yeah, thanks to this interview. 0:27:22.640 --> 0:27:24.600 And what about Generation beta? 0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:28.399 Their next? That's next. This is Bloomberg. 0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:34.120 This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live each 0:27:34.119 --> 0:27:37.560 weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecarflay and Android 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:40.600 Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen 0:27:40.680 --> 0:27:43.960 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. 0:27:44.520 --> 0:27:47.160 Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:51.920 Okay, we know about the Greatest Generation. Check the Silent Generation. 0:27:52.119 --> 0:27:52.359 Check. 0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:54.280 Do you know there's someone there's a generation before the 0:27:54.320 --> 0:27:57.199 Greatest Generation? What is it they are called? 0:27:57.520 --> 0:27:58.160 Are you serious? 0:27:58.280 --> 0:27:59.359 Yeah? The Lost Generation? 0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:00.199 Oh, I do know that. 0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:01.080 I do know that. 0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:03.840 And then I guess we forget about everyone before that, right, And. 0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:06.239 Then there's right that's neither here, sorry everybody. And then 0:28:06.240 --> 0:28:07.160 there's the massive. 0:28:06.840 --> 0:28:09.760 Boomers boomers, Gen X, Gen X. 0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:12.720 Millennials yep, Gen Z yep. Thenwhere else? 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:14.159 Then it gets a little complicated. 0:28:14.240 --> 0:28:14.440 Yeah. 0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:17.719 Gen Alpha that's twenty thirteen to mid twenty twenties. Okay, 0:28:18.160 --> 0:28:20.840 those are my kids, I guess, Okay. And then now 0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:22.640 that we're in the mid twenty twenties, it's time for 0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:28.760 the next generation. We're talking Generation Beta, okay. And they're 0:28:28.760 --> 0:28:31.040 born from twenty twenty five to twenty thirty nine, so 0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:32.520 most of them aren't even alive yet. 0:28:32.600 --> 0:28:35.199 All right, So we're waiting, but we're wait objecting a. 0:28:35.240 --> 0:28:36.760 Few of them. What they're going to be like opy 0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:37.440 birthday to them. 0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:40.520 Despite that, PGIM set out to figure out what this 0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:43.760 generation would look like. They interviewed doctors, scientists, parents, and 0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:47.160 more two thousand Americans to get predictions for the future 0:28:47.400 --> 0:28:48.360 of Generation Beta. 0:28:48.480 --> 0:28:51.400 David Blanchett is managing Director, portfolio manager, and head of 0:28:51.440 --> 0:28:54.840 Retirement Research at PGIM. He joins us from Lexington, Kentucky. David, 0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:56.760 Happy New Year. Great to have you here with Tim 0:28:57.280 --> 0:29:00.600 and myself. So tell us about this project, because we 0:29:00.680 --> 0:29:04.560 really haven't talked about this next generation, Generation Beta. So 0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:05.880 tell us what you set out to do. 0:29:06.920 --> 0:29:09.120 Well, you know, first you all kind of introduce this 0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:13.400 idea of generations, and you mentioned baby Boomers. They're actually 0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:15.680 the first generation to kind of have a name. It 0:29:15.800 --> 0:29:17.960 was essentially a group of individuals at a certain age 0:29:18.000 --> 0:29:19.600 and right, so we've kind of moved forward to the 0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:22.960 time you mentioned the Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, you know, 0:29:23.160 --> 0:29:26.080 the Alphas. Now we have the Beta. So everyone born 0:29:26.280 --> 0:29:29.640 on January first, twenty twenty five for the next fifteen 0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:32.040 years is going to be part of Generation Alpha. And 0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:35.840 obviously there's still a lot of those babies to come. 0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:39.120 But you know, we were curious, like, what what might 0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:41.000 the future hole, like what are we looking at in 0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:44.600 terms of this newest generation? So, as you all mentioned, 0:29:44.840 --> 0:29:49.600 a pretty exhaustive survey, you know, reviewing kind of expert opinions, 0:29:49.640 --> 0:29:53.000 surveying two thousand Americans, and lots of interesting perspectives people 0:29:53.120 --> 0:29:58.360 have about you know, things like life in general, retirement, longevity, 0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:00.920 just lots of interesting projections about the future. 0:30:01.520 --> 0:30:02.920 I mean, don't you think if you went back in 0:30:02.960 --> 0:30:04.800 time I'm just trying to figure out a corollary here 0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:07.000 that makes sense. But if you went back in time, 0:30:07.360 --> 0:30:10.040 you know, to the to the nineteen seventies and said 0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:12.840 to folks, what do you think people born you know, 0:30:12.880 --> 0:30:15.960 in the nineteen eighties to the two thousands would experience 0:30:16.000 --> 0:30:17.760 in life Like they're not going to be talking about 0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:22.080 smartphones and you know, AI, they're going to be talking 0:30:22.080 --> 0:30:25.360 about flying cars because that's what we thought would happen. Right, 0:30:25.560 --> 0:30:29.600 There's this disconnect between predictions and what actually happens, right well. 0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:31.640 And so I think that that's why like this is. 0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:34.880 I think this is informative, it's useful, but it's really 0:30:34.880 --> 0:30:36.920 difficult to think about what's going to happen in the future. 0:30:36.960 --> 0:30:37.080 Right. 0:30:37.080 --> 0:30:39.200 So you know, for example, you know, one of the 0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:41.360 questions in the survey was like, what would you call 0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:44.080 this generation? And you just said it a second ago, 0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:46.920 but like the most common nickname was Generation AI, Like 0:30:47.000 --> 0:30:49.600 even even three or four years ago, that probably isn't 0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:52.440 the name that we'd used to describe this later, this 0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:54.959 latest cohort. So I do think there is a lot 0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:56.920 of things that are changing, But to me, like this 0:30:57.080 --> 0:31:01.640 idea of change was probably the biggest theme in the survey, 0:31:01.880 --> 0:31:04.560 where there is lots of expectations where you know, kind 0:31:04.560 --> 0:31:08.720 of every facet of raising children, of saving for retirement, 0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:12.480 of planning for healthcare people, partial change in the future, 0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:15.040 especially for this Generation Beta. 0:31:15.160 --> 0:31:17.280 What about in terms of I'm really curious about how 0:31:17.280 --> 0:31:20.240 we work right here? We are four years off the pandemic. 0:31:20.360 --> 0:31:22.480 We thought it was going to be transformational, and I 0:31:22.480 --> 0:31:25.000 guess for some who are still working from home it is, 0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:27.600 but there's a lot more people who are being pressured 0:31:27.640 --> 0:31:30.440 to come back to the office. How do you think 0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:32.600 about this generation or what did you hear about how 0:31:32.640 --> 0:31:34.480 they think they will be working? 0:31:35.680 --> 0:31:39.160 Sure, so eighty three percent of respondents thought that retirement 0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:42.840 willok completely different for Generation Beta, And well why is that? 0:31:42.920 --> 0:31:46.600 It's because there's idea of many retirements and this idea 0:31:46.640 --> 0:31:49.880 that as we kind of evolve through the workforce, we're 0:31:49.920 --> 0:31:54.240 going to be changing changing jobs. So, you know, other 0:31:54.320 --> 0:31:57.160 stats would be that seventy four percent of people thought 0:31:57.200 --> 0:31:59.640 that Generation BETA would work less than five days a week. 0:32:00.000 --> 0:32:02.840 Eighty percent of respondents thought that people would have three 0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:05.800 distinct career paths over time. So I think that there 0:32:05.880 --> 0:32:09.320 is this kind of emerging perspective that this idea of 0:32:09.400 --> 0:32:12.640 having kind of one job and one profession for you know, 0:32:12.720 --> 0:32:15.920 thirty or forty years, isn't the future of work based 0:32:16.000 --> 0:32:17.320 upon how things are changing, David? 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:18.560 Is that because we're going to be living to one 0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:20.280 hundred and fifty, So yeah, we're going to have these 0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:22.240 many retirements, We're going to have these many you know, 0:32:22.400 --> 0:32:23.920 transformations in our careers. 0:32:24.520 --> 0:32:26.920 So I think that people will be living longer, you know, 0:32:27.200 --> 0:32:29.640 So I focus on retirement research, and I don't think 0:32:29.680 --> 0:32:31.600 we're going to have most people living to one hundred 0:32:31.600 --> 0:32:34.600 and fifty, but we are going to see improvements in longevity, right, 0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:39.160 And those improvements kind of radically create complexity around me 0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:41.720 on how we plan for retirement. And so to me, 0:32:42.080 --> 0:32:44.720 it isn't all that surprising that there's this perspective that 0:32:44.760 --> 0:32:46.960 you know, generation of Beta isn't going to retire right 0:32:47.000 --> 0:32:49.320 to the extent that we can. We can, you know, 0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:52.960 create jobs and create abilities to work longer. Lots of 0:32:52.960 --> 0:32:55.440 folks that want to retire. Actually, personally, I don't love 0:32:55.480 --> 0:32:58.120 the word retirement out the word financial independence. What we 0:32:58.160 --> 0:32:59.360 want to be able to do is is to save 0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:03.000 money and eventually stopped working. And I think that's where 0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:06.040 we're seeing this perspective around Generation Beta, where they're going 0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:08.720 to be this in theory, this group of individuals that 0:33:09.360 --> 0:33:11.600 that doesn't have the same retirement to everyone else. That 0:33:11.720 --> 0:33:13.880 being said, you know, it's thought that blows my mind 0:33:13.960 --> 0:33:15.480 is that they're not going to be you know, age 0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:19.959 seventy until you're twenty ninety five. So retirement in seventy 0:33:20.040 --> 0:33:21.880 years is going to be very different than it is today. 0:33:22.240 --> 0:33:25.160 To be young born in twenty thirty nine, sure would 0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:28.680 be nice already, right already, I'm thinking about it. One 0:33:28.680 --> 0:33:30.920 thing that I was surprised and you're reminding me about 0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:34.200 this is in a history class in college I remember studying. 0:33:34.200 --> 0:33:36.360 I believe it was in like the nineteen twenties, maybe 0:33:36.360 --> 0:33:39.440 the rise of leisure and the fact that people had, 0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:43.120 they weren't stuck in the fields, you know, twelve hours 0:33:43.120 --> 0:33:45.320 a day, seven days a week, three hundred and sixty 0:33:45.360 --> 0:33:49.479 five days a year for the first time ever. So 0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:51.600 there are certain things started happening, and I could be 0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:53.800 getting the dates wrong, and I know I'm over generalizing here, 0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:55.880 but I think if they were to look at our 0:33:55.920 --> 0:33:58.840 lives now, they'd say that, oh wow, those people never work. 0:33:58.960 --> 0:34:00.320 But when are we going to have like a four 0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:02.200 day work week or a three day work week, because 0:34:02.240 --> 0:34:04.920 automation is going to be doing such. 0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:05.280 A good job. 0:34:05.320 --> 0:34:06.560 Are you asking for them or for you? 0:34:06.600 --> 0:34:07.280 I'm asking for me. 0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:09.040 One of the markets going to only be open four 0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:10.399 days a week, and then we only have to work 0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:11.120 four days a week. 0:34:11.160 --> 0:34:11.960 That's what I want to know. 0:34:12.920 --> 0:34:15.319 So, you know, seventy four percent of respondence in the 0:34:15.360 --> 0:34:18.480 survey thought that Generation BETA would work less than five 0:34:18.520 --> 0:34:20.320 days a week. And so I think, again, there is 0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:24.600 this idea of work becoming more fluid versus this kind 0:34:24.600 --> 0:34:27.520 of structured nine to five thing. Obviously, we saw, you know, 0:34:27.600 --> 0:34:29.560 during COVID, a rise of remote work people and not 0:34:29.600 --> 0:34:31.080 going to be in the office through their jobs, and 0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:33.000 a lot of companies going to pull people back into 0:34:33.040 --> 0:34:34.719 the office. I think that I think that there is 0:34:34.760 --> 0:34:38.400 this emerging perspective that this requirement to be you know, 0:34:38.719 --> 0:34:41.160 in a at a desk in an office five days 0:34:41.200 --> 0:34:44.040 a week. It's not gone, but it's kind of slowly 0:34:44.239 --> 0:34:46.600 evolving into something else that is a lot more flexible. 0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:48.840 One thing I want to talk about is healthcare. 0:34:48.880 --> 0:34:51.440 We talked about longevity, and I feel like there's a 0:34:51.480 --> 0:34:54.120 bunch of things here in terms of your findings. Half 0:34:54.160 --> 0:34:57.040 of adults believing that cancer will be cured by gen 0:34:57.120 --> 0:35:01.800 beta percent predicting that gen beas don't have individualized healthcare 0:35:01.840 --> 0:35:04.399 based on their DNA, And I feel like we continually 0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:08.879 are increasingly tim are having conversations about individualized medicine. Talk 0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:11.520 to us a little bit about more about that, because 0:35:11.960 --> 0:35:15.680 it's an incredible cost to society, it's an incredible cost 0:35:15.680 --> 0:35:18.040 to individuals that we still haven't figured out some of 0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:20.960 these major ailments. So pull that together for us. 0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:23.279 Yeah, I mean, I think that that's kind of an 0:35:23.280 --> 0:35:26.279 optimistic perspective. You know, I too saw the fifty one 0:35:26.280 --> 0:35:28.640 percent stat of thinking that generation made would cure cancer. 0:35:29.040 --> 0:35:32.640 That I think that that to me what resonates looking 0:35:32.680 --> 0:35:35.080 across the response is just this idea again of kind 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:38.480 of like the evolving state of healthcare. I think the 0:35:38.560 --> 0:35:42.320 idea of personalized medicine. You know, there's there's some questions 0:35:42.320 --> 0:35:43.880 about like AI things like that. I think that I 0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:46.960 think the way that the individuals can receive you know, 0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:50.080 treatment is going to change, and I think that that 0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:53.600 was a key theme among the responders in the survey. 0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:55.279 So healthcare, I think that people think it's going to 0:35:55.280 --> 0:35:58.239 evolve in the future and radically affect generation made in 0:35:58.280 --> 0:36:00.480 terms of how they enjoy your life and also when 0:36:00.520 --> 0:36:01.239 they eventually. 0:36:01.000 --> 0:36:05.600 Retire, okay, get better, get to work. I was kind 0:36:05.600 --> 0:36:07.360 of hoping cancer would be cured before then. 0:36:07.640 --> 0:36:09.839 Fingers crossed. I would love to see that. The other 0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:11.360 thing is just one more stat on all of this. 0:36:11.440 --> 0:36:14.719 Fifty nine percent think AI artificial intelligence will be able 0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:18.920 to predict and prevent health issues before symptoms appear. And 0:36:19.200 --> 0:36:21.759 you know, it's just as you know, we have spent 0:36:21.880 --> 0:36:23.759 yere in the investment world the last two years talking 0:36:23.760 --> 0:36:28.080 about nothing but AI, generative AI, large language models, and 0:36:28.120 --> 0:36:28.520 so on. 0:36:28.560 --> 0:36:29.240 In the impact. 0:36:29.360 --> 0:36:31.799 Although I think people are thinking it's going to take 0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:34.360 a while for all of this to pay off and 0:36:34.400 --> 0:36:35.120 be put to work. 0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:38.520 Yeah, I mean, I think one of the questions was, 0:36:38.560 --> 0:36:40.360 like syncior centers wonted to think that AI. 0:36:40.160 --> 0:36:41.160 Is going to raise their kids. 0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:43.839 And so I think that that there's a lot of 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:47.080 a lot of a lot of positive expectations in here 0:36:47.200 --> 0:36:52.440 around artificial intelligence and how its role in terms of education, 0:36:52.560 --> 0:36:54.759 in terms of the role of kind of helping individuals 0:36:55.320 --> 0:36:59.480 have better personalized experiences based upon their unique preferences. 0:37:01.120 --> 0:37:04.920 I'm wondering about technology because and the folks you interviewed, uh, 0:37:05.160 --> 0:37:07.040 how did their how did their answers very based on 0:37:07.080 --> 0:37:08.680 who you talk to you because you talk to doctors, 0:37:08.680 --> 0:37:11.520 you talk to parents, you talk to technologists, you talk 0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:14.799 to scientists. How did they think differently about different generations? 0:37:16.239 --> 0:37:18.799 Well, you know, it's funny, you know, one of the 0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:22.040 differences that I noticed with the responses was like the 0:37:22.360 --> 0:37:27.960 like the older generations, like boomers, we're just optimistic about 0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:33.600 like the the the possibilities the future of the generation beta. 0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:37.399 You know, beyond that, you know, if you look at 0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:39.040 just like maybe at a higher level, if you look 0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:43.600 at things like like like regrets and and the things 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:47.680 that that that people would change based upon their lifestyles, 0:37:47.960 --> 0:37:50.520 you know, you have things like like saving for retirement 0:37:50.560 --> 0:37:52.360 and spending time with kids like that, like, you know, 0:37:52.400 --> 0:37:56.480 those those were very different for older Americans versus younger Americans. 0:37:56.480 --> 0:37:58.120 So a lot of the questions I didn't see big 0:37:58.120 --> 0:38:02.480 differences in in terms of you know, looking at like boomers, millennials, 0:38:02.480 --> 0:38:04.239 gen X, but you do see it in terms of 0:38:04.400 --> 0:38:06.239 things people say, well, like what do I wish I 0:38:06.280 --> 0:38:08.480 had done differently looking back on my life? 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:10.840 Hey, Having said that, I was kind of drawn to 0:38:11.080 --> 0:38:13.560 a statistics that you shared with our producer and our team. 0:38:13.880 --> 0:38:17.600 The people surveyed estimate that Generation BETA will need approximately 0:38:17.640 --> 0:38:21.160 one point eighty eight million dollars to sustain in retirement. 0:38:21.440 --> 0:38:23.160 That seems like a low number. 0:38:23.640 --> 0:38:27.040 It's well, I think it's all it's all relative. It's 0:38:27.080 --> 0:38:29.200 it's a big number. But like I said, I mean, 0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:33.120 we're talking about people retiring, you know, seventy sixty five 0:38:33.160 --> 0:38:34.719 years from now. I think that I think there are 0:38:34.960 --> 0:38:37.360 some really important things here, Like there was one I 0:38:37.400 --> 0:38:40.920 think useful stat that like eighty percent, you know, think 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:44.280 that Generation BETA should, like in a perfect world, start 0:38:44.320 --> 0:38:47.440 saving for retirement as soon as the child's worn And 0:38:47.480 --> 0:38:49.320 that's probably not realistic. I think most you know, I 0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:53.880 have four alphas myself, no betas, and that's that's like 0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:57.000 retirement's tough, right, And so I think that that one 0:38:57.080 --> 0:38:59.759 thing that will make retirement tough is we talked about 0:38:59.760 --> 0:39:02.799 early or is this increasing longevity. But I also don't 0:39:02.800 --> 0:39:04.640 love that word, Like I said, retirement. I think that 0:39:04.960 --> 0:39:06.759 I think that it's going to be more possible for 0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:12.600 us to do things that are economically additive at later ages, right, 0:39:12.680 --> 0:39:14.680 and and I mean along those lines, like you know, 0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:17.840 one of the important stats in the report was the 0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:22.319 number one regret of all respondents was they didn't save 0:39:22.400 --> 0:39:26.440 enough for retirement. Okay, what's really interesting is is that 0:39:26.600 --> 0:39:30.400 is never the highest regret of any of the generations. 0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:32.640 So like not saving for retirement is this kind of 0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:36.399 regret that kind of echoes across generations, but it's never 0:39:36.440 --> 0:39:37.000 the biggest thing. 0:39:37.040 --> 0:39:37.960 Like if you look at like like. 0:39:37.920 --> 0:39:40.719 Boomers for example, they wanted to you know, spend more 0:39:40.719 --> 0:39:42.480 time with their loved ones and take care of their 0:39:42.520 --> 0:39:44.440 health things like that. So that I think that, you know, 0:39:44.480 --> 0:39:46.319 we like, there is that big number, that one point 0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:48.400 eight eight million, But I think what's important is is 0:39:48.440 --> 0:39:51.440 that is you know, things like not saving for retirement, 0:39:51.520 --> 0:39:56.000 you know was actually a bigger focus among among younger respondents. 0:39:56.080 --> 0:39:57.320 But they're worried about. 0:39:57.080 --> 0:39:59.440 Like everything, like like they have just have like regret 0:39:59.520 --> 0:40:02.880 schalol or or as individuals get older, those regrets spade away. 0:40:02.880 --> 0:40:06.520 But to your question and point, retirement is very expensive. 0:40:06.880 --> 0:40:08.759 If we start living to age one hundred and ten 0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:11.040 hundred and twenty, it's even more expensive than today. 0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:12.919 But is it also something that's more top of mind 0:40:12.920 --> 0:40:15.000 maybe for younger generation because it's not like when my 0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:18.160 dad retired and there was pension and VA benefits and 0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:20.919 social security and investments. I mean, there was all these 0:40:20.920 --> 0:40:23.120 different pools and it's a very different environment for a 0:40:23.160 --> 0:40:24.320 lot of workers nowadays. 0:40:25.160 --> 0:40:25.480 What it is. 0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:27.960 I mean, so we've got I think, you know, like personally, 0:40:28.239 --> 0:40:30.400 I don't love the fact that the trust fund for 0:40:30.440 --> 0:40:33.439 Social Security is projected to go bankrupt in about about 0:40:33.480 --> 0:40:36.320 ten years. It creates a lot of uncertainty around around 0:40:36.360 --> 0:40:39.360 like the bedrock of our retirement being there. But also 0:40:39.520 --> 0:40:43.440 like like we've we've entered a world of personal responsibility 0:40:43.440 --> 0:40:45.799 for retirement savings. You've got to save in your in 0:40:45.840 --> 0:40:47.600 your four oh and K and your I ory things 0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:49.600 like that, and I think that that's a really good 0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:53.480 way to help individuals accumulate money for retirement, but you 0:40:53.520 --> 0:40:55.240 need to make sure they have access to a plan. 0:40:55.560 --> 0:40:58.520 But you know, kind of a bigger problem to some 0:40:58.600 --> 0:41:01.040 extent is Okay, you get to retirement and you have 0:41:01.440 --> 0:41:04.319 I don't know, half a million dollars as it's like 0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:07.440 now what like you train these people to say for 0:41:07.480 --> 0:41:09.640 thirty or forty years, and all of a sudden you've 0:41:09.640 --> 0:41:11.439 got to figure out how you're going to spend down 0:41:11.440 --> 0:41:13.160 that money, and you don't know how long you're gonna live, 0:41:13.200 --> 0:41:15.360 what the markets are going to do, and associreatd bankrupt 0:41:15.360 --> 0:41:17.319 and so I think that we have we have a 0:41:17.360 --> 0:41:20.880 pretty good system, but it places a lot of responsibility 0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:24.360 on the shoulders of the average American. And that's where 0:41:24.480 --> 0:41:27.440 you know, having help, having an advisor, using certain tools resources. 0:41:27.440 --> 0:41:30.839 I think that's really becoming more valuable because you only 0:41:30.880 --> 0:41:33.040 have one shot at retirement. You can't screw it up, 0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:36.000 and so getting help to figure out what the best 0:41:36.000 --> 0:41:38.120 thing to do is is just becoming I think more 0:41:38.160 --> 0:41:39.480 important for all Americas. 0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:42.080 Hey, are you concerned at all about a lack of 0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:47.120 Generation beta actually appearing? Because childcare has gotten so expensive 0:41:47.160 --> 0:41:48.640 and it's so expensive to have kids. I know, I 0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:50.520 don't need to tell you how much you have to 0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:53.960 say for college, considering you have four of them. But 0:41:55.160 --> 0:41:57.480 it's just gotten so expensive. And I know my generation 0:41:57.600 --> 0:41:59.680 fewer and fear people are having kids. Is that a concern? 0:42:00.560 --> 0:42:00.880 It is? 0:42:00.920 --> 0:42:02.120 And so it was really interesting. 0:42:02.239 --> 0:42:04.640 Is one of the questions they asked was, you know, 0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:08.200 among those who aren't going to be having children, like, 0:42:08.360 --> 0:42:11.520 why is that? And so my wife is a veterinarian 0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:14.600 and and you know, one of the top reasons was 0:42:14.640 --> 0:42:18.239 people are viewing their pets as a child. And you know, 0:42:18.400 --> 0:42:20.680 if you follow this trend in other countries, you see 0:42:20.719 --> 0:42:23.120 this in other places where individuals are kind of substituting 0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:27.440 having kids or having pets. And the number one sided 0:42:27.480 --> 0:42:30.799 reason often is just the costs and the time it 0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:32.280 takes to actually raise children. 0:42:33.320 --> 0:42:36.040 All right, So we've just got a couple of minutes 0:42:36.080 --> 0:42:38.880 left here, and I am curious with all that is 0:42:38.880 --> 0:42:41.120 said and done, all that we've talked about. You know 0:42:41.480 --> 0:42:43.359 what is kind of top of mind for you guys, 0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:46.920 pigim you guys invest like, I don't know, what are 0:42:46.960 --> 0:42:49.920 you thinking about this next generation, this beta generation? 0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:53.040 So you know, to be perfectly honest, Like, I'm not 0:42:53.080 --> 0:42:55.840 incredibly worried about about one year one year old saving 0:42:55.920 --> 0:42:58.120 for retirement, right, I think that it's gonna be it's 0:42:58.120 --> 0:43:00.080 gonna be an issue. I think, I think what i 0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:03.600 I'm what I'm I'm more focused on as individuals who 0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:06.000 are investing for today. So I spent a ton of 0:43:06.000 --> 0:43:09.360 time thinking about, like, how do we create solutions for 0:43:09.440 --> 0:43:12.359 individuals who around retirement, and and to me, it does 0:43:12.400 --> 0:43:14.799 get to this earlier point just about where you know, 0:43:14.880 --> 0:43:18.200 everyone's retirement is their own right, and for better or 0:43:18.200 --> 0:43:20.760 for worse, we all have to worry about the markets 0:43:20.800 --> 0:43:23.359 misbehaving about living a long time, and it's just it's 0:43:23.400 --> 0:43:26.520 just really really complicated. So I think, you know, at 0:43:26.520 --> 0:43:29.600 a high level, the job of all of us needs 0:43:29.600 --> 0:43:32.560 to be when we're young to make good financial choices, 0:43:32.600 --> 0:43:34.680 to save in our four one K and invest well. 0:43:34.960 --> 0:43:36.759 But but but the decisions you've got to make when 0:43:36.760 --> 0:43:39.719 you get closer to retirement just are really really complex. 0:43:39.800 --> 0:43:42.359 And you know, I'd like to think that things are 0:43:42.360 --> 0:43:44.480 gonna get easier for Generation BETA. 0:43:44.280 --> 0:43:45.640 But it's probably the opposite. 0:43:45.760 --> 0:43:48.560 And so hopefully, you know, we can learn from a 0:43:48.560 --> 0:43:50.200 lot of the mistakes for better or for worse that 0:43:50.200 --> 0:43:53.440 individuals make today so that future generations as they retire 0:43:53.719 --> 0:43:54.680 have things a bit easy. 0:43:57.239 --> 0:44:00.200 I did a college calculator while I was away. 0:44:00.040 --> 0:44:02.879 On break and oh, for what it's going to cost 0:44:02.920 --> 0:44:03.640 you for your kids? 0:44:03.680 --> 0:44:04.240 Not pretty? 0:44:04.920 --> 0:44:06.040 What's the number you came up with? 0:44:07.120 --> 0:44:09.759 More than six hundred thousand dollars for a private if 0:44:09.760 --> 0:44:11.160 you want to go to private, sco one or for 0:44:11.200 --> 0:44:12.520 both for one for one? 0:44:13.239 --> 0:44:13.680 Good luck? 0:44:13.719 --> 0:44:17.439 Honey, all right, David, we got to leave it there. Hey, listen, 0:44:17.440 --> 0:44:21.160 thanks so much. This was fun, interesting and enlightening. David Blanchett, 0:44:21.360 --> 0:44:24.480 Managing director, portfolio manager and head of Retirement Research at PGIM, 0:44:24.560 --> 0:44:27.279 joining us from Lexington, Kentucky. No, like, that's one of 0:44:27.320 --> 0:44:28.640 the things we talk about all the time, right, the 0:44:28.640 --> 0:44:29.360 cost of college. 0:44:29.640 --> 0:44:31.640 Yeah, it's uh, it just keeps up. 0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:32.760 And up and up. Intimidate. 0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:34.040 Well, see if you can keep going up and up 0:44:34.040 --> 0:44:35.960 and up. I know twenty years ago you were probably saying. 0:44:35.800 --> 0:44:37.040 That, yeah exactly. 0:44:37.239 --> 0:44:37.640 I don't know. 0:44:37.680 --> 0:44:39.239 I don't know that I ever thought it, but we've 0:44:39.239 --> 0:44:41.400 talked so many times, like over the years about how 0:44:41.440 --> 0:44:43.719 it's been outpacing inflation and just continues to do. 0:44:43.840 --> 0:44:52.040 So you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch 0:44:52.120 --> 0:44:55.360 us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. 0:44:55.520 --> 0:44:58.000 Listen on Apple CarPlay and the Android Auto with the 0:44:58.000 --> 0:45:03.239 Bloomberg Business app, or watch just Live on YouTube plenty. 0:45:03.480 --> 0:45:05.440 In our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg 0:45:05.480 --> 0:45:08.680 Business Week, including the Perfect Guest for Foodies, we speak 0:45:08.760 --> 0:45:12.040 to an award winning taste tester on fine tooting one's 0:45:12.080 --> 0:45:15.440 palate so we can really really learn how to savor 0:45:15.520 --> 0:45:16.120 that flavor. 0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:20.439 Plus Mark Zuckerberg rocking a nine hundred one thousand dollars watch. Yeah, 0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:22.160 that's like not that much money for him. Two hundred 0:45:22.160 --> 0:45:23.040 and fifteen billion dollars. 0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:24.960 Yeah, it's worth just a hundred million dollars. 0:45:25.280 --> 0:45:25.600 Yeah. 0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:30.280 Coffee machines that'll change your morning rituals and non alcoholic apparentiefs. 0:45:30.640 --> 0:45:33.319 This spruce up dry January all courtesy of our team 0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:34.760 over at Bloomberg Pursuits. 0:45:34.800 --> 0:45:37.040 First up this hour, It's a big luxury item that 0:45:37.120 --> 0:45:40.160 many of us probably won't get to experience in our lifetimes, 0:45:40.160 --> 0:45:42.319 and that is owning a private jet. 0:45:42.800 --> 0:45:46.640 Owning a private jet, it's costly, it requires regular maintenance, 0:45:46.760 --> 0:45:48.600 You got to hire, you got to pay that flight crew. 0:45:48.600 --> 0:45:51.720 You've got hangar fees. There's of course insurance and other costs. 0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:53.160 Those cost Carol. 0:45:53.200 --> 0:45:55.239 They can exceed a million dollars per jet. 0:45:55.360 --> 0:45:56.960 Yeah, that's a lot. So what if you don't have 0:45:57.000 --> 0:45:59.640 to buy the whole plane to fly private. That's where 0:45:59.640 --> 0:46:01.400 fraction jet ownership comes in. 0:46:01.640 --> 0:46:04.719 Michael Silvestro is CEO of the fractional private jet firm 0:46:04.760 --> 0:46:07.920 flex Jet. It's a division of the privately held Directional 0:46:07.960 --> 0:46:11.920 Aviation Capital. It provides fractional aircraft shares and leases as 0:46:11.920 --> 0:46:15.359 well as jet cards. Flexjet owns, operates and maintains over 0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:16.560 three hundred aircraft. 0:46:16.920 --> 0:46:20.920 So, just like everyone else, that pandemic brought travel to 0:46:21.000 --> 0:46:24.080 a halt. But coming out of the pandemic, we've seen 0:46:24.120 --> 0:46:28.160 a couple macro trends. First of all, people who had 0:46:28.360 --> 0:46:32.560 the ability financial wherewithal to fly privately before the pandemic 0:46:32.600 --> 0:46:36.160 who chose not to are all in now convenience. 0:46:36.360 --> 0:46:38.040 They started and they've stayed with it. 0:46:38.120 --> 0:46:40.880 Absolutely. Our retention rates of those that have come in 0:46:41.080 --> 0:46:44.680 after COVID are running ninety seven ninety eight percent. So 0:46:45.280 --> 0:46:47.000 if you have a sensus, just to give your sets 0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:49.520 of metrics, we were on a very very strong run 0:46:50.239 --> 0:46:53.560 pre COVID coming out of the pandemic. If you look 0:46:53.600 --> 0:46:56.120 at our book of business today from where we were 0:46:56.280 --> 0:46:58.240 five years ago, it's up sixty percent. 0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:02.440 Wow, what do we talk? Who is flying? I know, democrats. 0:47:02.600 --> 0:47:05.400 Demographics have shifted quite a bit for you guys in 0:47:05.400 --> 0:47:08.240 recent years. You're seeing more and more young people. Yeah, 0:47:08.320 --> 0:47:10.680 now become part of the program. People in their forties. 0:47:10.719 --> 0:47:12.000 What's the demographic looking. 0:47:11.880 --> 0:47:14.920 Like, Yeah, timm so coming the last The macro trend 0:47:15.000 --> 0:47:22.319 is younger, bigger, and longer. So a generation ago, a 0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:24.840 man or a woman would wait till maybe late fifties 0:47:24.920 --> 0:47:29.439 sixties to start flying privately. Today young men and women 0:47:29.480 --> 0:47:33.320 in their forties are all in. Secondly, they're not starting 0:47:33.320 --> 0:47:36.040 with small airplanes, you know, they're not starting small and 0:47:36.080 --> 0:47:38.520 moving their way up the food chain. They're in on 0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:41.520 nd supermit and heavy jets, and they're going all over 0:47:41.560 --> 0:47:44.719 the world. So the number of transatlantic crossings we did 0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:48.600 this summer to Europe were unbelievable. So people are just 0:47:48.640 --> 0:47:49.400 going everywhere. 0:47:49.560 --> 0:47:51.960 Remind us and our pursuits team off and taps into this, 0:47:52.040 --> 0:47:54.000 but remind us of kind of the financials in order 0:47:54.040 --> 0:47:56.440 to do to be a customer on one of your jets. 0:47:56.440 --> 0:48:00.640 Sure, well, depends upon it really all depends upon your missions, 0:48:00.680 --> 0:48:03.560 which can be easily defined as where do you go 0:48:03.840 --> 0:48:06.480 off and with how many people, and that kind of 0:48:06.520 --> 0:48:11.400 helps us create a profile of you and what airplane 0:48:11.440 --> 0:48:14.960 and services would best serve your missions. So you know, 0:48:15.040 --> 0:48:18.319 if you take a mid sized airplane a preet five 0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:20.799 hundred for member air for instance, for US, the buy 0:48:20.880 --> 0:48:24.000 in on a whole aircraft basis is about twenty million dollars, 0:48:24.440 --> 0:48:26.359 So you end up saying, hey, I want to fly 0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:28.080 one hundred hours a year, So that's about a two 0:48:28.120 --> 0:48:31.520 and a half million dollar check, and then your management 0:48:31.600 --> 0:48:34.279 fee and then your hourly rates roll up to for 0:48:34.320 --> 0:48:37.200 one hundred hours, you're talking about not quite a million 0:48:37.239 --> 0:48:38.560 dollars a year an operating costs. 0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:41.920 So when you say fractional jet, you're actually owning a 0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:44.240 piece of the jet. Yeah, you know, Timothy, that's different 0:48:44.280 --> 0:48:45.040 than other fronts. 0:48:45.160 --> 0:48:48.759 It is. And the model for us is is that 0:48:48.800 --> 0:48:51.719 we own and operate over three hundred airplanes. But when 0:48:51.760 --> 0:48:55.320 you buy a share, you're actually purchasing an undivided interest 0:48:55.360 --> 0:48:58.560 of a serial numbered aircraft that is part of our fleet. 0:48:58.880 --> 0:49:02.000 So as an individual owner, you can depreciate it, you 0:49:02.040 --> 0:49:06.400 can finance it, but then you allow other flexjet owners 0:49:06.400 --> 0:49:08.719 to fly on your plane and vice versa. So the 0:49:08.760 --> 0:49:12.160 master interchange agreement allows the operating metrics to work. 0:49:12.239 --> 0:49:13.120 So let's go with that. 0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:16.160 With that embryer two and a half million dollars buy in, 0:49:16.640 --> 0:49:18.800 and then operating costs that are associated with it, what 0:49:18.880 --> 0:49:19.680 are those typically? 0:49:19.800 --> 0:49:22.360 Usually well, for one hundred hours a year, it's you know, 0:49:22.400 --> 0:49:24.120 by the time you do a management fee in an 0:49:24.160 --> 0:49:26.239 hourly rate, it ends up to be about eight to 0:49:26.320 --> 0:49:27.600 nine thousand dollars an hour. 0:49:27.920 --> 0:49:30.799 So to make this it's you know, it's some people 0:49:30.800 --> 0:49:32.719 would say it's it's hard to make it worth it. 0:49:32.960 --> 0:49:36.120 You know, no matter how much you fly, it's about convenience, 0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:40.200 it's about comfort, it's about time not spent at you know, 0:49:40.320 --> 0:49:45.040 Newark Airport or whatever. Who's the typical profile in terms 0:49:45.080 --> 0:49:48.840 of like net worth that that make this choice. 0:49:48.920 --> 0:49:53.200 Yeah, so there's really two i'd say major constituents that 0:49:53.320 --> 0:49:58.120 fly ultra high net worth individuals that are using it 0:49:58.160 --> 0:50:00.000 for a combination of business and pleasures. 0:50:00.280 --> 0:50:03.440 These are people thirty million dollars and above. Typically networks. 0:50:03.719 --> 0:50:05.560 We think about network that's a. 0:50:05.480 --> 0:50:08.759 Good benchmark and then what we've seen recently is a 0:50:08.800 --> 0:50:13.600 lot of corporate flight departments are using fractional flexjet to 0:50:13.719 --> 0:50:17.680 supplement their own airplanes. So they're not going away. People 0:50:17.719 --> 0:50:20.480 are still going to have aircraft in their flight department, 0:50:20.880 --> 0:50:24.040 but rather than buying the fifth or sixth or seventh one, 0:50:24.480 --> 0:50:27.000 it's a smarter way to deploy capital where you just 0:50:27.160 --> 0:50:29.840 engage in a fractional share in addition to the airplanes 0:50:29.840 --> 0:50:30.720 that you fly yourselves. 0:50:30.719 --> 0:50:32.479 All right, so who's using your jet card? 0:50:33.320 --> 0:50:36.520 The jet card? So we have a very robust business 0:50:36.520 --> 0:50:39.120 that we own in the family of companies called Sentient Jet. 0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:41.560 So you buy a block of twenty five hours, it's 0:50:41.600 --> 0:50:43.839 like a big gift card in the sky, right and so, 0:50:44.600 --> 0:50:46.880 and you buy them in a category of an airplane, 0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:50.759 not necessarily a specific aircraft type. So that would just 0:50:50.840 --> 0:50:54.560 be for someone who's an occasional user. That would average 0:50:54.600 --> 0:50:57.080 only about twenty to twenty five hours a year. 0:50:57.200 --> 0:50:58.080 Okay, so not too much. 0:50:58.360 --> 0:50:59.839 And would you see but would you see a person 0:51:00.040 --> 0:51:03.160 person the profile of that person is not an ultra 0:51:03.239 --> 0:51:07.680 high net worth individual. Maybe they have many millions of dollars, 0:51:08.600 --> 0:51:11.200 but they're not actually buying a two and a half 0:51:11.200 --> 0:51:14.120 million dollars share right in an aircraft. 0:51:13.680 --> 0:51:16.880 They would be I would give you two examples. The 0:51:16.960 --> 0:51:21.920 difference would be perhaps they don't have the financial wherewithal 0:51:22.120 --> 0:51:25.160 or the net worth that a fractional customer would, But 0:51:25.320 --> 0:51:27.839 they might and they would just only buy a jet 0:51:27.920 --> 0:51:30.799 card because of their frequency of use. So you could 0:51:30.840 --> 0:51:33.640 be very, very wealthy. But you just hey, I have 0:51:33.719 --> 0:51:36.160 two or three trips a year, so it's not worth 0:51:36.200 --> 0:51:38.960 me investing in a fractional share and make that commitment. 0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:40.279 You just do a jet guard. 0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:42.160 What's the biggest business for you, guys? Where do you 0:51:42.200 --> 0:51:42.920 make the most money? 0:51:42.960 --> 0:51:46.759 Oh, fractional so flexjets model, which is very you know, 0:51:46.800 --> 0:51:49.799 there's all these ways to get on board. But the 0:51:49.800 --> 0:51:53.200 beauty of the fractional model is our recurring revenue. So 0:51:53.680 --> 0:51:56.479 once you're in the family, once you've bought or leased 0:51:56.480 --> 0:51:59.720 your share, you're paying a management feed. Just like belonging 0:51:59.760 --> 0:52:02.040 to a country club. Whether you go for dinner or 0:52:02.080 --> 0:52:06.799 play golf, you still expect a level of service when 0:52:06.800 --> 0:52:09.279 you show up. You want the greens mode. You want 0:52:09.280 --> 0:52:13.080 a wonderful menu. Same thing for us to deploy and 0:52:13.120 --> 0:52:15.799 to have on the ready three hundred airplanes around the 0:52:15.840 --> 0:52:18.879 world that takes a significant infrastructure. 0:52:18.880 --> 0:52:20.000 It also takes pilots. 0:52:20.000 --> 0:52:21.520 And one of the things that we've talked about a lot, 0:52:21.560 --> 0:52:23.760 I feel like tim with people in the aviation industry 0:52:23.800 --> 0:52:26.360 is the shortage of pilots. How are you dealing with that? 0:52:26.480 --> 0:52:27.920 And tell us what color you can give us? 0:52:27.920 --> 0:52:30.239 All, Well, that's a wonderful question. I would tell you that. 0:52:30.400 --> 0:52:32.919 One of the things I'm the most proud of is 0:52:32.960 --> 0:52:38.000 that the Flexjet pilots on their own voted they when 0:52:38.000 --> 0:52:41.760 we bought the business, they were unionized, and they voted 0:52:42.400 --> 0:52:45.920 to have an atwill relationship with senior management as opposed 0:52:45.960 --> 0:52:49.120 to being represented by a union. So we have from 0:52:49.200 --> 0:52:51.480 the get go. Well that was about six or seven 0:52:51.560 --> 0:52:55.120 years ago. Okay, so we have a wonderful relationship with 0:52:55.200 --> 0:52:58.480 our pilots. A couple things. Number one, we are committed 0:52:58.520 --> 0:53:02.000 to having the highest paidlots in the sky. We also 0:53:02.440 --> 0:53:05.279 have we're very we really try to operate on a 0:53:05.360 --> 0:53:09.560 familial culture and so we end up treating people with 0:53:09.920 --> 0:53:14.480 great respect and care and we just we just we 0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:16.600 just we just know how to treat people. 0:53:16.680 --> 0:53:18.319 Where do your pilots come from? All over? 0:53:18.640 --> 0:53:20.920 They a lot out of the military. 0:53:20.880 --> 0:53:23.080 So those are on the younger side. Do you have 0:53:23.080 --> 0:53:24.840 folks who retired from the big airlines? 0:53:24.880 --> 0:53:27.400 We do, not a lot, but you know, because. 0:53:27.160 --> 0:53:29.120 There's mandatary sixty five. 0:53:29.280 --> 0:53:31.319 So I just flew with a guy that had been 0:53:31.360 --> 0:53:33.439 with us less than a year. He was sixty six 0:53:33.520 --> 0:53:37.240 years old, incredibly fit and competent, and so we're happy 0:53:37.239 --> 0:53:37.640 to have him. 0:53:38.200 --> 0:53:40.400 Is it hard to find them though? That's what I 0:53:40.560 --> 0:53:41.160 just kind of go. 0:53:41.239 --> 0:53:44.080 Next to the defance apply, Well, here's something else we did. 0:53:44.520 --> 0:53:47.000 You know, we were noticing what our attrition rates were, 0:53:47.200 --> 0:53:50.040 and we noticed a couple of years ago. Because one 0:53:50.040 --> 0:53:51.920 of the things that speaks to our culture is we 0:53:51.960 --> 0:53:54.879 don't have a training contract, so we take you at 0:53:54.920 --> 0:53:57.520 your word. So if you apply and get accepted as 0:53:57.520 --> 0:54:00.400 a job as a pilot for Flexhut, we don't we 0:54:00.440 --> 0:54:02.640 train you. We invest the money in you, and you 0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:06.080 are not obligated at all. There's no there's no payback 0:54:06.120 --> 0:54:08.800 in case you leave us. So a lot of people 0:54:08.880 --> 0:54:13.279 were negatively profiling in us, coming, getting trained and then 0:54:13.360 --> 0:54:16.440 leaving after about two years or so. So one of 0:54:16.480 --> 0:54:21.200 the counter intuitive things we did was we raised our minimums. 0:54:21.560 --> 0:54:24.640 So while everybody was in the face of a pilot shortage, 0:54:24.640 --> 0:54:27.399 you would think, well, you'd lower your minimums more people. 0:54:27.440 --> 0:54:31.160 We were raised ours to three thousand hours as a minimum. 0:54:30.760 --> 0:54:32.359 So that's what you need to have under your belt 0:54:32.360 --> 0:54:34.400 in order to become a flexjet pilot. 0:54:34.520 --> 0:54:37.160 Only fifteen hundred hours, so twice as much as what 0:54:37.239 --> 0:54:40.000 the industry calls for. And what we have attracted in 0:54:40.040 --> 0:54:42.160 the last two or three years since we've done this 0:54:42.360 --> 0:54:45.120 is someone who's more career minded that they want to 0:54:45.160 --> 0:54:48.520 come to flexjet because they appreciate the culture, the compensation, 0:54:49.000 --> 0:54:52.160 the work rules, the environment, and our retention rates had 0:54:52.200 --> 0:54:53.120 plummeted since. 0:54:52.960 --> 0:54:55.279 Where were they going when they were leaving to the airlines. 0:54:55.800 --> 0:55:02.719 What do you find when when somebody who owns a 0:55:02.760 --> 0:55:05.799 fraction of a jet wants to use that jet, but 0:55:05.840 --> 0:55:07.080 then somebody else is using it. 0:55:07.680 --> 0:55:08.879 Well, that's the beauty. 0:55:08.600 --> 0:55:11.040 Of the model. That's not their problem, that's my problem. 0:55:11.719 --> 0:55:12.600 Does it happen a lot? 0:55:12.880 --> 0:55:16.920 No, No, we end up having this the model. So 0:55:16.960 --> 0:55:20.040 we as a company, we own about twenty percent of 0:55:20.520 --> 0:55:24.080 our fleet ourselves. It's called core fleet, so we don't 0:55:24.160 --> 0:55:27.200 commit out about one out of every five planes, and 0:55:27.239 --> 0:55:28.960 that's what we need to avoid. 0:55:29.040 --> 0:55:31.160 What you just asked me, can you use data AI 0:55:31.280 --> 0:55:32.759 or something to help you figure out kind of what. 0:55:33.000 --> 0:55:33.920 We're just curious. 0:55:34.120 --> 0:55:37.640 Yeah, you know, we're still We have a very sophisticated 0:55:37.680 --> 0:55:41.040 scheduling program that we created ourselves, but then we also 0:55:41.239 --> 0:55:45.680 add very experienced schedulers that look at the board and 0:55:45.719 --> 0:55:48.560 say how we move things around to make sure that 0:55:48.600 --> 0:55:49.800 we take care of our customers. 0:55:49.880 --> 0:55:52.160 I can only imagine there must be like a room 0:55:52.440 --> 0:55:52.920 or I don't know. 0:55:52.840 --> 0:55:55.759 How it is so Actually, no, it is a room. 0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:59.880 It's a beautiful, brand new, just year old Global Commands 0:56:00.239 --> 0:56:02.960 that we built in Cleveland, Ohio, which is our headquarters 0:56:03.360 --> 0:56:06.720 where we have visibility into our entire fleet around the world. 0:56:06.840 --> 0:56:09.040 Pretty cool stuff. Mike, thank you so much. 0:56:09.080 --> 0:56:11.480 Thank you for having me very much, very Christmas. 0:56:11.120 --> 0:56:11.480 To both here. 0:56:11.560 --> 0:56:13.480 Yeah, look forward to talking again in the new year. 0:56:13.560 --> 0:56:13.960 Thank you. 0:56:14.160 --> 0:56:18.279 Mike Selvestro, Chief executive Officer, a Flexjet joining us right 0:56:18.280 --> 0:56:20.480 here at our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio. 0:56:20.719 --> 0:56:21.319 We love talking. 0:56:21.360 --> 0:56:21.560 Play. 0:56:23.600 --> 0:56:27.279 This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Listen live each 0:56:27.280 --> 0:56:30.319 weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple Corflay, and 0:56:30.320 --> 0:56:33.360 Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also 0:56:33.480 --> 0:56:37.120 listen live on Amazon Alexa from our Flagship New York station. 0:56:37.680 --> 0:56:41.560 Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty, Carol. 0:56:41.600 --> 0:56:43.520 I don't know about you, but when I'm giving gifts 0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:45.760 these days, I kind of like to give people things they. 0:56:45.600 --> 0:56:46.600 Can eat or drink. 0:56:46.680 --> 0:56:49.200 I love doing that too, our Bloomber appreciate you want 0:56:49.239 --> 0:56:51.279 to get something that you can drink or eat. 0:56:51.440 --> 0:56:53.279 I do especially eat eat. 0:56:53.400 --> 0:56:55.880 Like when you brought cookies last week. That's right to 0:56:55.960 --> 0:56:58.040 everybody in the office who was here. 0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:01.400 That was kind of fun. She brought seven seven different types. 0:57:01.200 --> 0:57:03.399 Of at least seven different kinds. Yeah, and I didn't even 0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:03.839 make them. 0:57:03.719 --> 0:57:05.879 All like they were so good and you're still thinking 0:57:05.880 --> 0:57:06.319 about those. 0:57:06.560 --> 0:57:09.319 Well, things you can taste. That is something that Mandy 0:57:09.400 --> 0:57:12.759 Naeglich is her specialty. She's a writer and consultant working 0:57:12.760 --> 0:57:14.839 in the beverage and travel space. She's also the author 0:57:14.880 --> 0:57:17.440 of How to Taste, a Guide to Discovering flavor and 0:57:17.480 --> 0:57:21.760 Savoring Life. Welcome to Grace, So great to have you here. 0:57:22.000 --> 0:57:26.240 Tell us about Wait, your certification that makes you kind 0:57:26.240 --> 0:57:28.640 of an expert when it comes to taste. 0:57:28.760 --> 0:57:30.760 You've got a book, Yes, got a book, and I 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:33.520 do have several certifications. I actually I am a certified taster, 0:57:33.640 --> 0:57:36.520 which means I can taste all different specialty compounds. But 0:57:36.560 --> 0:57:39.600 I'm also a ciserone, which is a certified beer taster 0:57:39.800 --> 0:57:40.320 and server. 0:57:40.640 --> 0:57:42.760 First of all, how do you even get to do that? Like, 0:57:42.800 --> 0:57:44.440 what's the training involved to do that? 0:57:44.640 --> 0:57:48.120 Lots of sniffing, lots of slurping, lots of memorizing things. 0:57:48.120 --> 0:57:50.760 I can literally smell different sulfur compounds and they put 0:57:50.760 --> 0:57:53.440 them in front of me in coffee and chocolate and 0:57:53.480 --> 0:57:56.000 beer wine. They'll spike something and I'll be like, cis 0:57:56.000 --> 0:57:57.439 three hex and all that really fresh. 0:57:57.600 --> 0:57:59.440 You walk into a room like our studio and you're like, 0:57:59.440 --> 0:58:00.840 oh my gosh, like I'm smelling. 0:58:01.560 --> 0:58:03.439 You know, I can smell everything, but you guys smell great, 0:58:03.640 --> 0:58:05.040 so you don't have to worry too much. 0:58:05.080 --> 0:58:07.040 But do you I mean, is this something that anyone 0:58:07.080 --> 0:58:12.280 can do? Or do you have more sensitivity than other people. 0:58:12.120 --> 0:58:14.440 So everyone can train it. There's actually really cool studies 0:58:14.440 --> 0:58:16.240 that you can grow your old factory bulel, which is 0:58:16.240 --> 0:58:19.640 how we understand smells within two weeks of training, just sniffing, 0:58:19.680 --> 0:58:22.160 really concentrating, like we're going to focus on these wines. 0:58:22.440 --> 0:58:24.600 What are you smelling? Trying to remember it and you'll 0:58:24.920 --> 0:58:27.000 change the way that you taste in two or three weeks. 0:58:27.080 --> 0:58:27.479 Very cool. 0:58:27.520 --> 0:58:28.440 Why should we do that? 0:58:28.920 --> 0:58:30.640 What do you get out of learning how to kind 0:58:30.640 --> 0:58:33.560 of like think about smell when you're eating or drinking 0:58:33.640 --> 0:58:34.280 and so and so forth. 0:58:34.320 --> 0:58:35.080 Why is that so important? 0:58:35.080 --> 0:58:37.080 So think of watching a black and white movie, like 0:58:37.120 --> 0:58:38.920 that's what you're eating like right now, and then think 0:58:38.960 --> 0:58:40.720 of it in color. Think of all the depth the 0:58:40.720 --> 0:58:42.720 way that you can relate all of your memories as 0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:45.280 you're enjoying everything that you taste. It basically makes every 0:58:45.280 --> 0:58:48.200 sensory experience more deep and more memorable, which is what 0:58:48.240 --> 0:58:49.000 we want to live life for. 0:58:49.200 --> 0:58:49.960 Is it hard work for you? 0:58:50.000 --> 0:58:50.160 Though? 0:58:50.160 --> 0:58:51.840 In the sense of, like when you go out to 0:58:52.120 --> 0:58:56.480 a dinner with a friend, you're not necessarily enjoying it 0:58:56.520 --> 0:58:58.640 as much as somebody typically would because you kind of 0:58:58.640 --> 0:58:59.400 feel like you're working. 0:58:59.760 --> 0:59:02.200 So I've been doing it for so long that I 0:59:02.200 --> 0:59:04.480 believe there's a place for every taste. So even if 0:59:04.480 --> 0:59:06.560 something is a little, you know, not my favorite, I 0:59:06.600 --> 0:59:09.160 totally understand why it's there and I can appreciate what's 0:59:09.200 --> 0:59:12.000 going on. I think everything that we experience is just 0:59:12.000 --> 0:59:14.240 a memory we're making, and there's a place for everything. 0:59:14.040 --> 0:59:16.520 Like somebody's like, this tastes so good. You're like, actually, 0:59:16.720 --> 0:59:17.720 here's why. 0:59:17.720 --> 0:59:21.600 It's so subjective though, even our genes, our genes, certain genes. 0:59:21.720 --> 0:59:23.400 But come on, Mandy, there's times like no, no, it 0:59:23.400 --> 0:59:23.919 could be less. 0:59:24.080 --> 0:59:24.720 So that's legit. 0:59:25.840 --> 0:59:27.520 There's some times when we get to this red wine, 0:59:27.520 --> 0:59:29.280 if you don't have the right gene, you might literally 0:59:29.320 --> 0:59:33.520 just not taste the floral notes. I love wine, and. 0:59:33.440 --> 0:59:35.480 So tell me about like, all right, let's start with 0:59:35.480 --> 0:59:37.160 this first wine and kind of what we should do 0:59:37.200 --> 0:59:41.360 in terms of understanding the smell and why it's so important. 0:59:40.960 --> 0:59:42.680 And what we do, what you do smell when you 0:59:43.080 --> 0:59:43.560 So this is. 0:59:43.560 --> 0:59:46.240 The garzan Albarina from Uruguay, which is a pretty cool 0:59:46.280 --> 0:59:48.080 wine region. And what we're going to do is, first 0:59:48.080 --> 0:59:50.160 you just want to smell it a little bit further away, Okay, 0:59:50.320 --> 0:59:51.640 just see what you notice. First. This is going to 0:59:51.680 --> 0:59:53.959 be your top notes, the most powerful notes in the wine. 0:59:54.000 --> 0:59:55.479 And then we'll get closer and get a little swirl 0:59:55.480 --> 0:59:58.680 and smell again. Are you guys getting some fresh fruits 0:59:58.720 --> 1:00:00.840 on this? This is actually the new vintage that twenty 1:00:00.880 --> 1:00:04.040 twenty four gars on. I feel like it's so melon forward. 1:00:04.160 --> 1:00:05.720 It used to be a little bit more pair and all. 1:00:05.600 --> 1:00:06.360 You're getting melon. 1:00:06.360 --> 1:00:07.400 Oh I got melon? 1:00:07.600 --> 1:00:09.640 Yeah, you get that candle up instead of the pear. 1:00:09.680 --> 1:00:11.800 I don't know, nice all right, so we can get 1:00:11.840 --> 1:00:12.520 a little taste. 1:00:12.640 --> 1:00:12.920 Okay. 1:00:13.760 --> 1:00:15.560 I love this wine because it's not too intense. It 1:00:15.560 --> 1:00:17.680 can pair with pretty much any food. So I feel 1:00:17.680 --> 1:00:18.800 like you can show up at a party and no 1:00:18.840 --> 1:00:20.960 matter what your host is serving, you're not gonna overpower 1:00:21.000 --> 1:00:23.800 their dinner. It pairs with everything. And it's you know, 1:00:23.880 --> 1:00:25.920 under twenty dollars, So you could bring two bottles, one 1:00:25.920 --> 1:00:27.800 to serve, one for them to keep later and still 1:00:28.440 --> 1:00:29.160 be a really good guys. 1:00:29.200 --> 1:00:32.120 Are you finding as you do this that because we 1:00:32.160 --> 1:00:34.320 talk a lot about this that there are, yeah, some 1:00:34.360 --> 1:00:37.800 really expensive wines that are incredible, but more and more, 1:00:37.840 --> 1:00:40.400 there's some great offerings that don't cost that much money 1:00:40.440 --> 1:00:44.520 but have the smell like like all of that is there. 1:00:44.320 --> 1:00:46.080 Right, We're getting all this lush fruit on this right, 1:00:46.080 --> 1:00:48.160 which is what people look for in like a savion blanc. 1:00:48.560 --> 1:00:51.000 The savvy b girlies out there. But for the price 1:00:51.040 --> 1:00:53.600 of a good Savion blanc, you're you're gonna be paying 1:00:53.600 --> 1:00:55.880 way more than this, you know, under twenty dollars price limit, 1:00:55.920 --> 1:00:57.720 and this has got all the complexity of the right 1:00:57.760 --> 1:00:59.640 intensity that you want to be paying for that white. 1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:01.960 So you're getting the flavor without the price tag, just 1:01:01.960 --> 1:01:04.640 because it's from a little bit of a different region. 1:01:04.680 --> 1:01:06.240 It's from your wine in South Americas. 1:01:06.240 --> 1:01:07.840 Are you ever working with a customer and you're like, 1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:10.480 you do this for a winery or so and so forth, 1:01:10.520 --> 1:01:11.480 and you're like, this is terrible. 1:01:12.160 --> 1:01:14.520 Never say it's terrible. I will say there's seven different 1:01:14.520 --> 1:01:17.080 ways to smell something, So you know, sometimes we have 1:01:17.080 --> 1:01:19.680 to get into six and seven before we're really enjoying 1:01:19.680 --> 1:01:21.760 it and praising the wine. Okay, this one, I feel 1:01:21.760 --> 1:01:23.760 like right on the front, it's lovely. It's so lush. 1:01:23.800 --> 1:01:25.680 I'm not a white wine drinker, but this is lovely. 1:01:25.920 --> 1:01:29.200 Yeah, and great for a party, you know, if you're 1:01:29.200 --> 1:01:29.960 a red wine drinker. 1:01:30.000 --> 1:01:31.760 Though I am a red wine So tell me what 1:01:31.800 --> 1:01:32.440 you've got here. 1:01:32.760 --> 1:01:35.439 So this is the rio Haa from Faustino and they 1:01:35.520 --> 1:01:38.840 are kind of the rio hog producers there. This is 1:01:38.840 --> 1:01:40.560 the twenty fourteen. It just hits shelves. 1:01:40.640 --> 1:01:43.280 So we're just talking about it, but are we smelling? 1:01:43.360 --> 1:01:44.959 Do you get that big plumb note? 1:01:45.040 --> 1:01:45.280 Yeah? 1:01:45.280 --> 1:01:47.480 The last vintage did not have all these like black 1:01:47.600 --> 1:01:50.520 dark fruits like that hurrd. And the nice thing is 1:01:50.520 --> 1:01:52.280 if you want to pick this up and taste all 1:01:52.280 --> 1:01:55.400 those dark notes, they come with these little like wine 1:01:55.480 --> 1:01:58.600 markers right now, so you can pop it on your glass. 1:01:59.040 --> 1:02:00.560 It's on the top of the bottle. It's like a 1:02:00.560 --> 1:02:02.280 little gift, so you know you're not gonna sip my 1:02:02.640 --> 1:02:06.320 brown Fastino marker. So you know, as you're going through 1:02:06.320 --> 1:02:08.480 the night enjoying your glass, you don't one thing you 1:02:08.480 --> 1:02:10.280 can worry about with tasting. You know, if someone else's 1:02:10.280 --> 1:02:11.840 bad breath was in your glass, you're not gonna have 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:12.400 to worry about that. 1:02:12.440 --> 1:02:12.560 One. 1:02:12.960 --> 1:02:14.720 I have to say with my family large family, like 1:02:14.720 --> 1:02:16.320 we all have our little like charms that we put 1:02:16.360 --> 1:02:18.120 out our glasses to make sure like we don't mess up, 1:02:18.160 --> 1:02:19.080 Like that's my wine. 1:02:19.600 --> 1:02:20.919 We have that too, right Yeah. 1:02:20.960 --> 1:02:22.840 If we're somewhere where we don't have that, we use 1:02:22.880 --> 1:02:24.160 different colored rubber bands to you. 1:02:24.240 --> 1:02:26.880 Really okay perfect, And it's such a small little gift. 1:02:26.920 --> 1:02:28.560 Like I think when you give people wine glasses, you 1:02:28.560 --> 1:02:30.200 don't know what's in their cabinet, and you can just 1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:32.320 be like forcing them to store something else, like a 1:02:32.360 --> 1:02:34.800 little extra wine charm isn't gonna take up your door space. 1:02:34.920 --> 1:02:37.080 So tell us again, like what we're getting here. 1:02:37.040 --> 1:02:39.840 Yeah, so we should be getting some like really dark 1:02:39.880 --> 1:02:41.560 fruits on the nose and then yeah, you guys just 1:02:41.600 --> 1:02:42.160 took your sip. 1:02:43.400 --> 1:02:44.400 Sorry, gents a goin with this. 1:02:44.480 --> 1:02:46.560 You get like a little a little spice at the end, right, 1:02:46.600 --> 1:02:48.240 like it kind of ends up almost a bit of 1:02:48.240 --> 1:02:50.520 black pepper. And what we'll sit on your tongue after 1:02:50.600 --> 1:02:52.880 is kind of that powerful spice note and that really 1:02:52.920 --> 1:02:53.720 stewed plum. 1:02:54.480 --> 1:02:55.280 What is this good with? 1:02:56.280 --> 1:02:57.640 So this, you'll need a little bit more of an 1:02:57.680 --> 1:03:00.200 intense food, so kind of like some red meat eat 1:03:00.320 --> 1:03:02.400 things like that. A really rich cheese would be so 1:03:02.520 --> 1:03:04.240 nice with that, because you get that nice tannin at 1:03:04.280 --> 1:03:07.040 the end, So something like exactly something like a gouda 1:03:07.080 --> 1:03:08.600 and then a sip of this after it's gonna kind 1:03:08.640 --> 1:03:10.840 of balance it out perfectly. You're not gonna have too 1:03:10.880 --> 1:03:12.200 much richness on your palate. 1:03:12.240 --> 1:03:13.640 So it's a thirty seven dollars bottle of. 1:03:13.640 --> 1:03:14.880 Wine, yeah, under forty bucks. 1:03:15.160 --> 1:03:18.000 Yeah, that's great. Yeah, and I don't know if we 1:03:18.040 --> 1:03:20.880 said that the garzan was seventeen dollars. 1:03:20.960 --> 1:03:22.240 Yeah, under twenty dollars. 1:03:22.800 --> 1:03:24.960 We got some white wine, we got some red wine. 1:03:25.440 --> 1:03:27.160 We got a little bit of bubbly, Carol. 1:03:26.960 --> 1:03:29.640 We have a little bit of bubbly. And listen, let's 1:03:30.000 --> 1:03:32.840 go there and tell us what we're so. 1:03:32.880 --> 1:03:34.360 First I want to say, just look what the shape of 1:03:34.400 --> 1:03:36.800 your glass too? You say how it's a little different. Yeah, 1:03:36.920 --> 1:03:40.000 with bubbly, we're gonna have rims that tip in a 1:03:40.000 --> 1:03:42.960 little bit because the bubbles are actually forcing aroma out 1:03:43.000 --> 1:03:45.600 of the glass or out of the solution, and it's 1:03:45.600 --> 1:03:47.600 gonna all collect right there. So this is our special 1:03:47.720 --> 1:03:50.360 champagne glass. Don't let anyone serve you in a flute, okay, 1:03:50.480 --> 1:03:53.480 and really why because it doesn't collect that glass, right 1:03:53.520 --> 1:03:55.840 So all of your aroma's just shooting out and there's 1:03:55.840 --> 1:03:58.000 no way to get your in there. 1:03:57.680 --> 1:03:59.600 So I was just going through glassware. 1:03:59.200 --> 1:04:01.600 At home, and yeah, so get rid of the flutes 1:04:02.000 --> 1:04:03.840 unless you're doing a big toast where no one wants 1:04:03.880 --> 1:04:05.960 to taste the champagne, like youve one hundred people, that's 1:04:05.960 --> 1:04:07.640 what a flut is good for. But if you're trying 1:04:07.640 --> 1:04:09.040 to taste this pole rogair. 1:04:08.880 --> 1:04:09.720 Well, this is what you want. 1:04:09.840 --> 1:04:11.560 You want to get your notes okay, so all right, 1:04:11.920 --> 1:04:13.919 I know, all right, we're gonna continue that it tells 1:04:13.960 --> 1:04:14.600 what we're smelling. 1:04:14.680 --> 1:04:16.600 So this is pol rogair, And unlike a lot of 1:04:16.640 --> 1:04:19.120 champagnes that have those really bright apple notes, this is 1:04:19.120 --> 1:04:22.000 like a little buttered brioche. It's a little bit sweeter, 1:04:22.160 --> 1:04:23.720 and if you taste it, it has a lot more 1:04:23.760 --> 1:04:25.760 body than a lot of champagnes. It actually is three 1:04:25.840 --> 1:04:27.320 equal parts of three different grapes. 1:04:27.400 --> 1:04:29.600 Oh my gosh, that's good. 1:04:29.640 --> 1:04:31.520 So you get that structure that kind of weighs on 1:04:31.520 --> 1:04:33.480 your palette a little bit, and I think sometimes when 1:04:33.480 --> 1:04:35.479 we're sipping champagne at New Year's it kind of zips 1:04:35.520 --> 1:04:37.520 right off your pallette. It's apply and it's gone. I 1:04:37.560 --> 1:04:39.360 love that this kind of hangs around and stays on 1:04:39.360 --> 1:04:40.240 your palette for a little bit. 1:04:40.360 --> 1:04:40.760 That's nice. 1:04:40.800 --> 1:04:42.840 And as a gifting champagne, it comes in a beautiful 1:04:42.840 --> 1:04:45.440 gift box and it's under fifty five dollars, so a 1:04:45.440 --> 1:04:47.560 lot of those gifting champagnes will be over one hundred. 1:04:47.680 --> 1:04:49.960 This one, I think, has the flavor, has the complexity, 1:04:50.000 --> 1:04:51.640 and hits you at a really nice price point. 1:04:51.680 --> 1:04:55.400 The first bottle of this or this brand sold in 1:04:55.440 --> 1:04:56.320 eighteen forty nine. 1:04:56.360 --> 1:05:00.400 Yeah, one hundred and seventy five years ago. Sticks there, Yeah, exactly. 1:05:00.600 --> 1:05:04.120 You do coffee, you do wine, you do beer, chocolate, 1:05:04.360 --> 1:05:05.640 chocolate tea. 1:05:05.680 --> 1:05:06.520 What's your favorite? 1:05:06.760 --> 1:05:07.360 Oh my favorite? 1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:08.000 Oh good question. 1:05:08.080 --> 1:05:10.880 I mean I do love bubbles, but probably my favorite 1:05:10.920 --> 1:05:13.800 is getting into like the dark spirit space, love at love, 1:05:13.800 --> 1:05:15.640 a little whiskey, tasting a little dark rum. 1:05:16.120 --> 1:05:18.160 He explain how your business works, like who brings you 1:05:18.200 --> 1:05:19.840 in and who you do consulting for. 1:05:20.240 --> 1:05:23.800 Yeah, I work across restaurants, bars, I do things like 1:05:23.840 --> 1:05:26.160 private jets. We were just had a private jest, So 1:05:26.160 --> 1:05:29.120 I'm working with those companies, And basically what I'm doing 1:05:29.200 --> 1:05:31.160 is making sure every palette that walks into the door 1:05:31.240 --> 1:05:33.760 is going to have something pleasing to them. So whether 1:05:33.800 --> 1:05:36.600 you like sweet sour, really intense, less intense, We're going 1:05:36.680 --> 1:05:38.640 to make sure the drink's menu or the dessert menu 1:05:38.800 --> 1:05:41.280 offer something for everyone. And what we don't notice is 1:05:41.560 --> 1:05:43.720 the way that we all taste is a little bit different, right, 1:05:43.800 --> 1:05:46.680 So just genetically, there's certain flavors you can't taste. There's 1:05:46.880 --> 1:05:49.560 people who think everything is super bitter. So I kind 1:05:49.560 --> 1:05:51.400 of know the lay of the land, what percentage of 1:05:51.400 --> 1:05:53.040 people are going to think things are really bitter, and 1:05:53.040 --> 1:05:55.080 I make sure the restaurants know what I know as well. 1:05:55.320 --> 1:05:57.440 I was just having this conversation this week with my 1:05:57.520 --> 1:06:00.400 wife and her parents about cilantro because it's like this 1:06:00.640 --> 1:06:06.320 very polarizing thing to put on tacos, for example. Some 1:06:06.360 --> 1:06:09.520 people think it tastes like soap. There's a whole portion 1:06:09.520 --> 1:06:12.400 of the population. There's all portion of population. Things taste fine. 1:06:12.520 --> 1:06:13.680 Why does stuff happen like that? 1:06:13.880 --> 1:06:16.240 So this is totally genetics, and the more scientists dig 1:06:16.280 --> 1:06:18.640 into our genes, same thing. A third of people can't 1:06:18.640 --> 1:06:20.560 taste violets at all. They don't know what they can't smell. 1:06:20.560 --> 1:06:22.280 It smells like nothing to them. Wow, you can live 1:06:22.280 --> 1:06:24.680 happily your whole life without smelling violets. But when we 1:06:24.760 --> 1:06:26.360 know that, you're not gonna put a violet cocktail on 1:06:26.360 --> 1:06:28.800 the menu, right, Same thing with these jeans in cilantro. 1:06:29.200 --> 1:06:31.960 There's also bitterness. Like I said, there's five types of bitterness, 1:06:32.000 --> 1:06:34.720 and there's twenty five percent of the population can't taste 1:06:34.720 --> 1:06:36.720 three of those types. So that is just not going 1:06:36.760 --> 1:06:37.200 to be bitter. 1:06:37.280 --> 1:06:37.520 You know. 1:06:37.680 --> 1:06:39.280 In the break, we were talking a little bit about 1:06:39.280 --> 1:06:41.600 and we're talking so much about smell and how it 1:06:41.640 --> 1:06:46.360 impacts us, but the color of a store, restaurant or something. 1:06:46.520 --> 1:06:48.320 And even in your book you talk about, you know, 1:06:48.440 --> 1:06:50.520 throwing your next dinner party where the. 1:06:50.400 --> 1:06:51.440 Thermostat should be. 1:06:51.440 --> 1:06:54.240 And I just like, what are the things that we 1:06:54.280 --> 1:06:56.240 need to think about, like when we're serving food or 1:06:56.240 --> 1:06:58.520 wine or just kind of that setting, especially something like 1:06:58.520 --> 1:07:00.400 a dining room or something where we're. 1:07:00.240 --> 1:07:01.480 Going to be eating and drinking a lot. 1:07:01.720 --> 1:07:04.200 Yeah, going back to the Fastino Rioja is actually a 1:07:04.200 --> 1:07:06.520 perfect example. See how it's like so opaque and you 1:07:06.640 --> 1:07:08.480 kind of can't see through it. Yeah, our brain just 1:07:08.480 --> 1:07:12.000 sees this rich color, and we immediately already think ooh expensive, 1:07:12.160 --> 1:07:14.880 ooh fancy. There's a lot of wines that are great 1:07:14.880 --> 1:07:16.840 that have a lighter color, but our brain just sees 1:07:16.880 --> 1:07:19.360 this rich red and things sweet. I want to taste 1:07:19.440 --> 1:07:21.680 that red is one of those colors that we reliably 1:07:21.680 --> 1:07:25.360 can trace to being that we crave it and that 1:07:25.400 --> 1:07:28.479 it's a little bit sweeter. So knowing all different things, 1:07:28.520 --> 1:07:30.160 you know about how you want to serve a wine, 1:07:30.240 --> 1:07:32.360 how you want to serve a cocktail. Certain cocktails if 1:07:32.360 --> 1:07:34.160 they're not so attractive, if they have that kind of 1:07:34.160 --> 1:07:36.840 pale color. We'll put it in an opaque glass so 1:07:36.880 --> 1:07:38.440 people can't see what it looks like and they're only 1:07:38.480 --> 1:07:41.080 getting the flavor. You don't want to let your eyes 1:07:41.080 --> 1:07:43.560 play tricks on you that like kind of play. 1:07:44.000 --> 1:07:49.280 Yeah, I play the science around smell. You mentioned that 1:07:49.600 --> 1:07:52.920 scientists doctors are starting to associate loss. 1:07:52.640 --> 1:07:54.960 Of smell with certain ailments. 1:07:55.120 --> 1:07:57.680 What's the research there, Yeah, so the size of your 1:07:57.720 --> 1:08:00.200 old factory bowl was actually a really great indicator of 1:08:00.240 --> 1:08:03.840 overall brain health. And scientists at the Monell Center have 1:08:03.920 --> 1:08:06.920 been researching smell loss and they think it's the earliest 1:08:06.960 --> 1:08:10.480 sign of dementia and Parkinson's. But there's no good consistent 1:08:10.600 --> 1:08:12.800 test for smelling. You know, you don't go into your 1:08:12.920 --> 1:08:15.640 physical and smell of lemon every single time, so a 1:08:15.680 --> 1:08:17.920 lot of people don't self report, oh, things don't smell 1:08:17.960 --> 1:08:20.439 as strong to me. And really, what scientists are starting 1:08:20.479 --> 1:08:23.280 to push for is a physical at your physical when 1:08:23.320 --> 1:08:25.080 you're little, you start doing a smell test and they 1:08:25.120 --> 1:08:27.559 can trace your smell your whole life. So when that 1:08:27.600 --> 1:08:30.919 starts to drop off, you can start kind of combating 1:08:31.000 --> 1:08:33.840 or testing for any kind of brain deterioration. Also, people 1:08:33.840 --> 1:08:36.560 with large olfactory bulbs weren't as affected by COVID and 1:08:36.600 --> 1:08:38.800 they didn't tend to get long COVID. Those studies are 1:08:38.800 --> 1:08:41.760 still coming out, but really, just focusing on taste and 1:08:41.840 --> 1:08:44.040 keeping that little part of your brain healthy seems to 1:08:44.160 --> 1:08:45.320 affect your brain as a whole. 1:08:45.479 --> 1:08:45.719 Yeah. 1:08:45.840 --> 1:08:47.640 No, I feel like the more we learn kind of 1:08:47.680 --> 1:08:50.000 how it all works here is certainly our body. Mandy, 1:08:50.240 --> 1:08:52.599 what a treat. Thank you so much for Tim and I. 1:08:52.680 --> 1:08:54.439 We're getting ready to head out for the holidays. We 1:08:54.439 --> 1:08:56.720 won't be around next week, although there'll be a lot 1:08:56.800 --> 1:08:59.080 going on at Bloomberg here. But what a great way 1:08:59.120 --> 1:09:01.200 to wrap up our week Friday, So thank you so much. 1:09:01.240 --> 1:09:02.920 The little toast, A little toast of the holidays. 1:09:02.920 --> 1:09:05.040 A little I'm trying to think, which should I like, 1:09:05.080 --> 1:09:06.480 pull out hands. 1:09:06.360 --> 1:09:07.080 And yeah. 1:09:09.160 --> 1:09:09.800 You can have one. 1:09:10.320 --> 1:09:12.320 Yeah, exactly. You can toast while you're drinking. 1:09:12.400 --> 1:09:13.000 This is something. 1:09:13.160 --> 1:09:15.040 Yeah, I'm gonna do a little bit of both. 1:09:14.920 --> 1:09:16.240 But first we got to wrap up our show. 1:09:16.680 --> 1:09:19.240 Mandy Naeglich, as we said, check out our book. She 1:09:19.400 --> 1:09:22.120 is a consultant works in the beverage and travel space. 1:09:22.160 --> 1:09:23.919 Her book has How to Taste, a guide to discovering 1:09:24.160 --> 1:09:29.840 flavor and savoring Life. 1:09:33.800 --> 1:09:37.559 This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live each 1:09:37.600 --> 1:09:40.599 weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple car Play 1:09:40.680 --> 1:09:43.320 and the Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You 1:09:43.360 --> 1:09:46.560 can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 1:09:46.600 --> 1:09:50.760 New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 1:09:52.560 --> 1:09:54.120 Meta out with News this past week. 1:09:54.160 --> 1:09:57.200 But what we noticed was Zuck's fancy and pricey. 1:09:57.280 --> 1:09:58.439 Watched him more. 1:09:58.320 --> 1:10:01.719 On that and in and what feels like a few 1:10:01.760 --> 1:10:04.519 pursuit stories that are like tailor made totally for you 1:10:04.720 --> 1:10:08.240 for me, the best coffee machines for the perfect pour 1:10:08.320 --> 1:10:09.080 over yep. 1:10:09.120 --> 1:10:12.720 And it's five o'clock somewhere and in dry January, Well, 1:10:12.760 --> 1:10:14.519 you could have some coffee. But it also means it's 1:10:14.520 --> 1:10:16.360 time for a mockdal You know. 1:10:16.320 --> 1:10:16.760 What that means. 1:10:16.800 --> 1:10:19.120 It's time for Bloomberg Pursuits. Here with more the editor 1:10:19.160 --> 1:10:22.639 of Bloomberg Pursuits, Chris Rouser. Chris, I want to start 1:10:22.680 --> 1:10:25.479 with the watch scene around the world. Of course, as 1:10:25.520 --> 1:10:27.840 Carol mentioned Meta in the News for a host of 1:10:27.880 --> 1:10:30.880 reasons over the past week, but you and the team 1:10:30.960 --> 1:10:34.639 over at Pursuits around the World couldn't keep your eyes 1:10:35.400 --> 1:10:38.360 off that time piece that Mark Zuckerberg had. 1:10:38.560 --> 1:10:43.840 Well, well, well, some international news happens and you need 1:10:43.880 --> 1:10:45.680 to call me to come talk about it. 1:10:45.760 --> 1:10:46.759 That's how we roll. 1:10:46.560 --> 1:10:49.560 Here and everything going on around the world. When we 1:10:49.640 --> 1:10:53.960 got to go to you, what's up with that? 1:10:54.040 --> 1:10:56.400 So yeah, so Mark Zuckerberg made the announcement about the 1:10:56.479 --> 1:10:59.760 end of fact checking across Meta and Andy Hoffman are 1:11:00.160 --> 1:11:02.599 or in Geneva. You know he was in the video. 1:11:02.680 --> 1:11:04.200 He's just sitting in a small room. You can't see 1:11:04.200 --> 1:11:06.439 where he is. He has a little necklace on, you know, 1:11:06.520 --> 1:11:09.760 nondescript clothes and a big watch. And Andy Hoffman and 1:11:09.800 --> 1:11:13.120 Geneva emailed me and the news editors and said, I 1:11:13.200 --> 1:11:16.160 know that watch. That's a very expensive. 1:11:15.680 --> 1:11:18.200 Watch, like right away, right, yes. 1:11:18.320 --> 1:11:20.240 Early in the morning. And I was like, let's do it, 1:11:20.320 --> 1:11:21.120 Let's do the story. 1:11:21.280 --> 1:11:23.320 Can I just tell you we talk about expensive watches 1:11:23.320 --> 1:11:25.280 all the time, but this is something special. 1:11:25.880 --> 1:11:28.439 Yes, So this is a Grouble four Sea hand made 1:11:28.479 --> 1:11:31.599 one watch. I wrote about this watch in twenty nineteen 1:11:31.640 --> 1:11:33.000 when it first came out, and we put it in 1:11:33.080 --> 1:11:35.880 Business Week because it was so unusual. Ninety five percent 1:11:35.880 --> 1:11:39.280 of it has made my hand, including tiny, tiny, tiny 1:11:39.320 --> 1:11:42.240 wires that are the springs that make watches work. I don't. 1:11:42.360 --> 1:11:45.200 I mean, it's incomprehensibly to me how they do it. 1:11:45.240 --> 1:11:47.679 My hand, And so we shot it for Business Week 1:11:47.760 --> 1:11:49.479 and there was only one because they only make like 1:11:49.520 --> 1:11:51.559 two a year and it was very hard to get it. 1:11:51.680 --> 1:11:53.960 But this is like a total grail watch for people, 1:11:54.120 --> 1:11:56.360 and it has been since they started making it. There's 1:11:56.400 --> 1:11:58.479 only handful in the world and they cost almost nine 1:11:58.520 --> 1:11:59.519 hundred thousand dollars. 1:11:59.680 --> 1:12:03.960 Okay, a pretty pen two or three. If you're worth 1:12:03.960 --> 1:12:06.760 more than two hundred billion dollars, like Mark Zuckerberg, you 1:12:06.800 --> 1:12:07.640 can totally do this. 1:12:08.120 --> 1:12:08.320 You know. 1:12:08.479 --> 1:12:10.280 One thing that we've noticed about Mark Zuckerberg over the 1:12:10.360 --> 1:12:13.559 last couple of years is his change in style. He's 1:12:13.600 --> 1:12:15.680 sort of embraced a different look than that. 1:12:15.720 --> 1:12:16.960 Can we say he's getting fancy. 1:12:18.400 --> 1:12:19.719 The vibe is not fancy. 1:12:20.040 --> 1:12:22.679 Yeah, I don't know if that gold chain is fancy, 1:12:22.720 --> 1:12:24.919 but but he's kind of trying. 1:12:24.680 --> 1:12:25.599 To do a watch guy. 1:12:25.800 --> 1:12:28.680 Yes, he has so it's it's not just this that's 1:12:28.720 --> 1:12:29.519 part of his collection. 1:12:29.640 --> 1:12:31.360 He is. He has this growing collection. 1:12:31.640 --> 1:12:35.320 Yes, he has protect Phi Leaps, he has f P Jorns, 1:12:35.360 --> 1:12:38.400 which is another like sort of cult watch collector. Brand, 1:12:38.439 --> 1:12:40.920 although they make a lot more of those, but these 1:12:40.960 --> 1:12:43.559 Grooble four seas are really only available to a very 1:12:43.600 --> 1:12:46.160 small number of people. They make about the company as 1:12:46.160 --> 1:12:48.040 a whole only makes about two hundred and fifty watches 1:12:48.080 --> 1:12:51.719 a year. Robert Downey Junior one has one. Sam Altman 1:12:51.800 --> 1:12:54.639 from open Ai has won a different one, and these. 1:12:54.680 --> 1:12:56.760 We did a story about this company earlier in the 1:12:56.840 --> 1:12:59.600 year and the headline was these watches used to be 1:12:59.720 --> 1:13:02.960 the of the ultra rich, not anymore. And it's because 1:13:03.000 --> 1:13:05.200 these tech people are wearing them and you see them 1:13:05.200 --> 1:13:07.519 around and they're so big, like you can't miss them. 1:13:07.640 --> 1:13:11.320 Does it assume that Mark Zuckerberg has a deeper appreciation 1:13:11.600 --> 1:13:13.760 for really finely made watches. I mean, there are lots 1:13:13.800 --> 1:13:15.400 of watches out there that you can spend money on, 1:13:15.760 --> 1:13:17.479 but this is something else. Or is it just that 1:13:17.520 --> 1:13:20.240 he can, you know, help me understand The response on it. 1:13:20.280 --> 1:13:22.519 I don't know Mark personally, but. 1:13:24.080 --> 1:13:25.519 Come on, next three of us. 1:13:25.800 --> 1:13:27.320 The response on the internet. 1:13:27.080 --> 1:13:29.600 Has read it and say. 1:13:28.080 --> 1:13:32.320 From watch people is that like, oh, okay, he really 1:13:32.400 --> 1:13:36.519 gets it, like he understands what, you know, what like 1:13:36.560 --> 1:13:40.120 a really cool, like a very interesting important watches rather 1:13:40.200 --> 1:13:41.760 than just some other watches that are just sort of 1:13:41.840 --> 1:13:48.320 expensive for being expensive, the watch nerds applaud this, this, this, 1:13:48.320 --> 1:13:49.120 this ownership. 1:13:49.520 --> 1:13:51.760 Well done, well done, it's so funny. First of all, 1:13:51.760 --> 1:13:53.680 can I just tell you love my co host. I 1:13:53.720 --> 1:13:54.919 never think he drinks coffee. 1:13:55.000 --> 1:13:55.439 I do. 1:13:55.600 --> 1:13:57.519 Well, It's because I only have one cup a day. 1:13:57.479 --> 1:13:59.760 At home, and I'm finding out that it is not 1:13:59.840 --> 1:14:02.240 just your ordinary cup of coffee. You are kind of 1:14:02.280 --> 1:14:05.680 a coffee guru. You care about like your devices in it, 1:14:05.760 --> 1:14:07.120 and like not only that. 1:14:07.120 --> 1:14:09.160 I mean I spent about an hour cleaning the espresso 1:14:09.240 --> 1:14:10.120 machine last night. 1:14:10.280 --> 1:14:11.400 I'm not joking at all. 1:14:12.000 --> 1:14:13.400 Wow, exactly. 1:14:13.439 --> 1:14:15.040 The machine that I have doesn't look like any of 1:14:15.080 --> 1:14:19.040 the machines inside the Pursuit section. Mine's very old school. 1:14:19.880 --> 1:14:23.280 There's like this tech enabled approach to coffee that has 1:14:23.320 --> 1:14:26.040 taken off over the last couple of years, in part 1:14:26.080 --> 1:14:28.640 thanks to some folks who've quit Apple and been like, 1:14:28.680 --> 1:14:30.519 I can make a better mouse. 1:14:30.320 --> 1:14:34.080 Trap, Yes, make a better coffee filter. So we did 1:14:34.080 --> 1:14:37.559 a story for this coming New Year about pour over 1:14:37.680 --> 1:14:41.240 coffee machines. So you have an espresso machine, right, So, 1:14:41.640 --> 1:14:43.760 but pourover is for a lot of people. They like 1:14:43.800 --> 1:14:46.320 waking up in the morning. They like the ritual of 1:14:46.360 --> 1:14:49.479 making a single cup of coffee from a single filter, 1:14:49.680 --> 1:14:52.600 pouring it over slowly, and they also believe that, like 1:14:52.640 --> 1:14:54.720 for a normal drip coffee, this is the only way 1:14:54.760 --> 1:14:58.439 to get all of the apricots and essences of toast 1:14:58.520 --> 1:14:59.360 and whatever. 1:14:59.160 --> 1:15:01.320 People say on the I remember what it was like 1:15:01.360 --> 1:15:04.479 before I had kids too, Okay, because that's how people who. 1:15:04.360 --> 1:15:08.040 Don't have little kids enjoy. 1:15:07.400 --> 1:15:09.360 Wait, it wasn't quiet where they are in the morning. 1:15:09.479 --> 1:15:11.719 Yeah, am I just a peasant with my French press? 1:15:11.800 --> 1:15:14.360 Yeah right, I am, you're kind of I mean, French 1:15:14.400 --> 1:15:16.600 press makes good coffee, and it's good. That's good for 1:15:16.680 --> 1:15:19.880 making multiple cups of coffee, So like when people come over, 1:15:19.960 --> 1:15:21.559 we'll do that anyway, sorry, Chris. 1:15:21.479 --> 1:15:23.920 Ahead, Oh yeah, well no, I mean this is tim 1:15:23.960 --> 1:15:25.439 you know, I think you actually know more about this 1:15:25.439 --> 1:15:27.920 stuff than I do. But these pour over machines are 1:15:27.960 --> 1:15:29.599 basically doing what you would do if you did pour 1:15:29.640 --> 1:15:31.080 over on your own, which is like in a lot 1:15:31.120 --> 1:15:34.400 of cases, it's a single a single serving worth of 1:15:34.439 --> 1:15:37.080 beans that are ground like right there. You grind them 1:15:37.160 --> 1:15:40.920 and then you the hot water is poured over, and 1:15:41.520 --> 1:15:43.439 you know, you can choose the size of the beans, 1:15:43.520 --> 1:15:45.599 the size of the grind, the heat of the water. 1:15:46.160 --> 1:15:48.400 But basically it does kind of what you watch a 1:15:48.439 --> 1:15:51.080 lot of like Barista's constantly doing, which is taking the 1:15:51.120 --> 1:15:53.000 port of filter, filling it with beans, moving it over, 1:15:53.040 --> 1:15:55.200 putting it on the Esprecial machine. It's like that, but 1:15:55.240 --> 1:15:56.160 for a pour over coffee. 1:15:56.200 --> 1:16:00.120 I mean, you need coffee to make a cup of coffee. 1:15:59.120 --> 1:16:01.599 But just the movement of the filter from the ground 1:16:01.600 --> 1:16:04.080 beans to the where the hot water comes from is 1:16:04.520 --> 1:16:06.040 a big part of what these machines do for you. 1:16:06.200 --> 1:16:08.479 It does take a long time for an individual to 1:16:08.520 --> 1:16:10.360 do this themselves. And Carol, you and I were traveling 1:16:10.400 --> 1:16:12.280 a couple of years ago somewhere I don't remember where 1:16:12.320 --> 1:16:14.160 it was, and on the way to the venue, I 1:16:14.200 --> 1:16:16.519 stopped to get my first cup of coffee for the morning, 1:16:16.520 --> 1:16:18.479 my only cup, and I ordered a pour over and 1:16:18.479 --> 1:16:20.759 they told me we don't do pourovers in the morning 1:16:20.880 --> 1:16:23.040 because they take so long. Yeah, we're only doing drip 1:16:23.080 --> 1:16:25.280 coffee right now. And I was really disappointed because did 1:16:25.320 --> 1:16:26.120 you walk away. 1:16:25.880 --> 1:16:26.280 In a huff? 1:16:26.320 --> 1:16:26.960 I can't remember. 1:16:27.240 --> 1:16:29.120 No, no, no, I still ordered it. 1:16:29.880 --> 1:16:31.920 He's pretty friendly, but it just it goes to show 1:16:31.960 --> 1:16:35.360 that Yes, it's a very manual and laborious thing to do. 1:16:35.640 --> 1:16:37.840 And machine they've been for years. They've been trying to 1:16:37.840 --> 1:16:39.920 get machines to make us good of a cup of coffee. 1:16:39.920 --> 1:16:40.720 Have they pulled it off? 1:16:40.960 --> 1:16:41.160 Yeah? 1:16:41.320 --> 1:16:41.760 Me so. 1:16:41.880 --> 1:16:44.160 Matt Cronsberg, our writer, who is a total coffee grew 1:16:44.280 --> 1:16:46.240 as well, much more than I am, says that these 1:16:46.280 --> 1:16:49.120 are legit very good. Two of them. One of them 1:16:49.160 --> 1:16:51.360 makes just like a single serving, and then some of 1:16:51.400 --> 1:16:53.400 them make batches. One of them you can actually set 1:16:53.400 --> 1:16:55.880 a timer. Like when I used to drinkffee in the morning, 1:16:56.160 --> 1:16:58.040 I just wanted it to be ready when I was awake, 1:16:58.080 --> 1:17:01.120 and one of these will do it. So the x 1:17:01.120 --> 1:17:03.719 Bloom Studio, which is a new device from this company, 1:17:03.840 --> 1:17:05.600 x Bloom. It's four hundred and ninety nine dollars, and 1:17:05.640 --> 1:17:09.240 this is from the Apple Alum that you mentioned a lot. 1:17:09.320 --> 1:17:11.160 There's actually a lot of Apple Alums that have gotten 1:17:11.200 --> 1:17:13.840 into this space. And then if you want more of 1:17:13.880 --> 1:17:15.840 a batch, you can use the Fellow aid in which 1:17:15.880 --> 1:17:18.800 is three hundred and sixty five dollars, and that comes 1:17:18.840 --> 1:17:20.880 with like small and larger brewing baskets, so you can 1:17:20.920 --> 1:17:23.320 do and you can do the preset timing for that one. 1:17:23.600 --> 1:17:25.639 But they do a lot of stuff, these machines. 1:17:25.720 --> 1:17:29.280 Well, they also do blooming, which is something that I 1:17:29.320 --> 1:17:30.200 hate that I know about. 1:17:30.200 --> 1:17:34.479 But because you've got a coffee guy, No, I am a. 1:17:34.400 --> 1:17:36.679 Coffee person, but I stop drinking coffee in the morning. 1:17:37.439 --> 1:17:38.080 So what is blue? 1:17:38.280 --> 1:17:41.240 But blooming is when you pour hot water on beans, 1:17:41.680 --> 1:17:44.479 on ground beans to release the carbon dioxide before you 1:17:44.520 --> 1:17:46.960 actually brew, before you actually pour it through to filter 1:17:47.040 --> 1:17:49.640 through to brew your cup of coffee. And so if 1:17:49.680 --> 1:17:52.760 you some machines do it, these do, but if you 1:17:52.760 --> 1:17:54.559 do it yourself, you'll watch you pour hot water on 1:17:54.600 --> 1:17:56.760 the ground beans and it sort of bubbles, and that's 1:17:56.800 --> 1:17:59.400 the carbon dioxide releasing before you can get like an 1:17:59.439 --> 1:18:00.920 even more pure expression. 1:18:01.760 --> 1:18:05.519 Let's talk about dry January because we actually recently live 1:18:05.560 --> 1:18:07.679 on air, had someone bring in a couple of bottles 1:18:07.720 --> 1:18:08.080 of wine. 1:18:08.160 --> 1:18:10.400 Yeah, Libby Wines came in a new company out of 1:18:10.600 --> 1:18:14.559 northern California. They have like a heritage and wine making and. 1:18:14.560 --> 1:18:16.600 Okay, this is really terrible because Tim and I have 1:18:16.640 --> 1:18:19.040 tried some non alcoholic stuff and it wasn't so good. 1:18:19.120 --> 1:18:19.920 No, it's mostly bad. 1:18:20.080 --> 1:18:24.599 Yeah, this was good. We enjoyed this. Yeah, but it's happening, right. 1:18:24.760 --> 1:18:26.640 It has been happening for a while. People have not 1:18:26.880 --> 1:18:29.360 figured it out until I would say the last year 1:18:29.439 --> 1:18:31.360 or two in terms of like they've been figuring it 1:18:31.400 --> 1:18:32.559 out for a while, but in terms of what you're 1:18:32.560 --> 1:18:34.200 going to get at a restaurant or a store, I've 1:18:34.240 --> 1:18:36.720 only tasted stuff that's decent in the like last year 1:18:36.800 --> 1:18:41.559 or two. But now their wine, particularly has gotten pretty good. 1:18:42.520 --> 1:18:45.360 And we kat Odell, who's like a very very cool 1:18:45.400 --> 1:18:47.599 food and drinks writer, wrote this story for us about 1:18:47.600 --> 1:18:49.960 how these companies are figuring it out. And in the 1:18:50.040 --> 1:18:52.599 year that ended in June twenty twenty four, zero proof 1:18:52.720 --> 1:18:55.160 drink sales rose twenty four percent to one hundred and 1:18:55.200 --> 1:18:58.800 ninety nine million in the US. So you know, this 1:18:58.880 --> 1:19:02.519 is a big growing thing, and people not drinking is 1:19:02.560 --> 1:19:06.600 affecting the like LVMH, like Mohett Hennessy like that. A 1:19:06.640 --> 1:19:09.639 lot of the big wine and spirits and champagne companies 1:19:09.640 --> 1:19:11.240 are softening because. 1:19:11.000 --> 1:19:12.800 Of this, and are they starting to then like say, 1:19:12.840 --> 1:19:15.360 we need to embrace this, right, which is kind of cool. 1:19:15.479 --> 1:19:18.280 Totally, you guys highlight a handful of cool stuff. I 1:19:18.280 --> 1:19:20.240 got to tell you, I haven't tried one thing that's 1:19:20.280 --> 1:19:20.920 on this list. 1:19:20.920 --> 1:19:21.720 A lot of this is new. 1:19:21.840 --> 1:19:23.840 Okay, yeah, so that makes sense. But what it? 1:19:24.080 --> 1:19:24.320 What it? 1:19:24.439 --> 1:19:29.360 What I've noticed is that you're actually getting uh, non 1:19:29.400 --> 1:19:33.479 alcohol versions of full cocktails. Like when I go in 1:19:33.600 --> 1:19:36.880 order a mocktail at a restaurant, it's like, it doesn't it. 1:19:37.000 --> 1:19:40.800 It's not trying to be a nonloo non alcoholic version 1:19:40.840 --> 1:19:43.559 of a real drink. It's something completely different, basically on 1:19:43.600 --> 1:19:47.559 a different part of the menu. That's true, Yes you can. 1:19:47.720 --> 1:19:49.680 I do like those those are good ones that are 1:19:49.680 --> 1:19:50.320 made in Brooklyn. 1:19:50.400 --> 1:19:51.040 It's pure sugar. 1:19:51.120 --> 1:19:53.200 Yeah, it's something. 1:19:53.240 --> 1:19:55.000 We looked at the one like that's the thing that 1:19:55.000 --> 1:19:55.760 we know, and. 1:19:55.720 --> 1:19:56.200 It was it. 1:19:56.240 --> 1:19:57.719 The Libby wines had no added sugar. 1:19:58.000 --> 1:19:59.599 You know what I thought was really interesting. I have 1:19:59.640 --> 1:20:01.479 no idea of all the stuff that's going on. A 1:20:01.520 --> 1:20:04.040 couple of things that caught my attention. Elderflower, which I 1:20:04.080 --> 1:20:06.679 have done, kind of the alcoholic version. Yeah, it feels 1:20:06.680 --> 1:20:08.559 like it's having a moment. There's that, and then there's 1:20:08.560 --> 1:20:10.120 like Alice Cooper getting involved. 1:20:10.120 --> 1:20:12.000 Who would have thought, Yeah, this is a great example 1:20:12.040 --> 1:20:13.479 of the kind of pre mixed thing that you were 1:20:13.479 --> 1:20:15.240 talking about. Tim, and I have to read this from 1:20:15.280 --> 1:20:17.200 the paper because there's so many words in this name. 1:20:17.479 --> 1:20:21.200 But it's the whistle Pig, whiskey, sex, drug, rock and roll, dry, 1:20:21.240 --> 1:20:24.920 old fashioned, And it's a collaboration between whistle whistle Pig, 1:20:24.920 --> 1:20:27.439 which is a whiskey maker, and Alice Cooper. And apparently 1:20:27.479 --> 1:20:30.280 it's great. It's a sort of a blend of alcohol 1:20:30.360 --> 1:20:34.320 free rye whiskey, Cordy steps, mushrooms, shassandra berry. 1:20:34.479 --> 1:20:36.720 Interesting stuff. But it's Alice Cooper, so you'd expect like 1:20:36.720 --> 1:20:37.479 baby some interesting. 1:20:37.560 --> 1:20:39.360 So the fact that whistle Pig is putting its name 1:20:39.400 --> 1:20:41.479 behind this, I think is a big deal because whistle 1:20:41.520 --> 1:20:43.479 Pig makes a whiskey that a lot. 1:20:43.400 --> 1:20:44.240 Of people really like. 1:20:44.360 --> 1:20:46.640 Yeah, correct, So they're not going to want their name 1:20:46.640 --> 1:20:50.640 associated with something that is, yeah, probably not up to 1:20:50.720 --> 1:20:51.880 par with what they're known for. 1:20:52.120 --> 1:20:53.920 Yeah, there's a risk to it. Like you sure they 1:20:53.960 --> 1:20:55.439 want to get into this market. Sure they want to 1:20:55.439 --> 1:20:58.120 put their name on something that so that an na 1:20:58.200 --> 1:21:00.439 drinker can have it on their bar, but like they 1:21:00.479 --> 1:21:03.280 can't have it be bad. So you know, they took time. 1:21:03.400 --> 1:21:06.160 The brands like that have taken time and care with 1:21:06.280 --> 1:21:08.840 figuring this out. The other thing I really like from 1:21:08.840 --> 1:21:12.720 this list is French French Bloom, which is the champagne. 1:21:13.880 --> 1:21:16.519 Champagne was a little easy, faster to get to tasting 1:21:16.560 --> 1:21:18.240 decent in the non alcoholic space. I think because you 1:21:18.280 --> 1:21:20.599 got the bubbles. It's sort of Chris, But this French bloom, 1:21:20.640 --> 1:21:23.000 if you have it, it's really great. It tastes like champagne. 1:21:23.000 --> 1:21:27.400 It is champagne, and it does it has you feel 1:21:27.479 --> 1:21:28.599 just as celebratory when. 1:21:28.439 --> 1:21:28.840 You're having it. 1:21:28.840 --> 1:21:31.080 It's not cheap either, one hundred and nineteen dollars right, 1:21:31.240 --> 1:21:35.040 yeah for a bottle hundred and fifty militers. Okay, I'm 1:21:35.040 --> 1:21:35.960 just saying that's enough. 1:21:36.000 --> 1:21:36.479 It seems good. 1:21:36.640 --> 1:21:38.120 Got to say it's a great list, So Tim, it's 1:21:38.120 --> 1:21:39.680 a list you need to work on it. We have 1:21:39.720 --> 1:21:41.880 to get more of those guys in studio and gals 1:21:41.920 --> 1:21:42.920 and then also have christraps. 1:21:42.920 --> 1:21:45.040 Okay, I'll buy the shoots Patagonia. 1:21:44.920 --> 1:21:45.559 Yea collab. 1:21:45.760 --> 1:21:47.599 You can get that, you know, one hundred dollars. 1:21:47.479 --> 1:21:48.639 Chris and I are doing that Champagne. 1:21:48.720 --> 1:21:50.320 I'll bring the nine hundred thousand dollars. 1:21:50.360 --> 1:21:54.840 Watch all right, all right, Chris, thank you. 1:21:55.040 --> 1:21:57.559 That's Chris Hrauser, editor of Bloomberg Pursuits. 1:21:57.600 --> 1:21:59.839 And that wraps up our weekend edition of Bloomberg BusinessWeek 1:21:59.840 --> 1:22:01.920 Fromloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us. 1:22:01.960 --> 1:22:03.719 I'm Tim Steneberg and I'm Carol Mass. 1:22:03.840 --> 1:22:06.000 Have a good and safe weekend. Bottom up, so everybody. 1:22:07.040 --> 1:22:11.880 This is the Bloomberg Business Week podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, 1:22:12.000 --> 1:22:15.719 and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday 1:22:15.760 --> 1:22:19.759 afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 1:22:19.800 --> 1:22:23.719 the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. 1:22:23.920 --> 1:22:26.840 You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube 1:22:26.920 --> 1:22:29.080 and always on the Bloomberg terminal