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Speaker 1: Flaky Biscuit is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership

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Speaker 1: with iHeartRadio. Welcome to Flaky Biscuit, where each episode we

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Speaker 1: are cooking up delicious morsels of nostalgia, meals and recipes

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Speaker 1: that have comforted and guided our guests to success. As

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Speaker 1: y'all know, I've been You know what I'm saying, y'all

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Speaker 1: been listening. I've been cooking meals from scratch, creating recipes.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to say. Sometimes I'm creating a recipe. Oftentimes

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Speaker 1: I am trying to recreate something. There are times where

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Speaker 1: I have to create, But in today's this instance, I

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Speaker 1: am trying to recreate something very very special. These recipes

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Speaker 1: I hope that y'all are also making at home and

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Speaker 1: of course giving me advice on where I went right

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Speaker 1: or wrong. I'm Brian Ford, author of Neural Sourdough, author

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Speaker 1: of Neural Baking, and today I have a very very

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Speaker 1: amazing person in the flesh here. So excited to have

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Speaker 1: this fellow Southerner on the podcast today. Powerhouse in the

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Speaker 1: food industry, a cooking columnist for the Los Angeles Times,

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Speaker 1: written three cookbooks, three that just gave me palpitations. And

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Speaker 1: has worked as a food editor and a recipe developer

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Speaker 1: for several food media publications such as Lucky Peach, Food

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Speaker 1: and Wine, Said, Food Network magazine, BuzzFeed, Tasty, no big deal,

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Speaker 1: please welcome the legendary Ben Mems.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Bryan. That's very exciting. It

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Speaker 2: made me sound a lot better than I am, so

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Speaker 2: I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Whoa, whoa, whoa, what do you mean You're You're fantastic.

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Speaker 1: How are you today? Man? Thanks for coming to Flaky Biscuit.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me so much. It's wonderful and

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Speaker 2: like finally signing out here for once. So I'm doing

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Speaker 2: much better.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, it's been a little rain. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: so you've been living.

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Speaker 2: Here for four years and that to the day exactly.

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Speaker 1: And it's not normal to get day's long rain, is it.

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Speaker 2: Not at this time of year? And definitely not with

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Speaker 2: this temperature. It's like so cold. I feel like I'm

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Speaker 2: back in New York and that's that's not the vibe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's kind of like so Bridge and I

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Speaker 1: came here for the winter expecting to just like be

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Speaker 1: on the beach and like surfing in the sun, and

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Speaker 1: then we get hit with the snow.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh literal snow, yes, first in like thirty years,

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Speaker 2: so like good timing.

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Speaker 1: Of course that happened while we came to escape.

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Speaker 2: But when the weather gets cold, I do, I turn

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Speaker 2: to like braised meat, like I want like something in

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Speaker 2: the oven for four hours, as like you know, tomato

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Speaker 2: sauce or onions and just like that kind of like

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Speaker 2: braised down ultimate comfort.

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Speaker 1: Yes exactly, that's nice. Yeah, you grew up in Mississippi, man, so.

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Speaker 2: Like no, yeah, growing up in the South, and like

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Speaker 2: you know, the eating culture there too, Like I had

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Speaker 2: never really had like fresh salads and like the way

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Speaker 2: that people eat in other parts of the country, because

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Speaker 2: everything is like even the vegetables are like braised down.

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Speaker 2: They have like a spoonful of bacon grease or just

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Speaker 2: like some kind of like meat to kind of like

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Speaker 2: you know, help it along. So the way that I've

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Speaker 2: eaten growing up Misissippi versus New York versus even here

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Speaker 2: now has like changed dramatically, and I now understand why

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Speaker 2: it's like such a shock when people go to these

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Speaker 2: places and try to like adapt their diets and how

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Speaker 2: different it really is based on what's growing around you,

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Speaker 2: the weather, and just like the culture of what people

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Speaker 2: are eating in a different city or a different part

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Speaker 2: of the country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even just walking into a corner store,

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Speaker 1: like if you you know, I moved back to New

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Speaker 1: York and it's you know, bodega cultures is the vibe. Son,

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Speaker 1: It's like you walk into a bodega, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, you got to let them know quick, like

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Speaker 1: you want it on a bagel, a roll, or a

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Speaker 1: hog and then they got to chop up the meat

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Speaker 1: or like that's that's part of the culture of New York.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh you're eating that kind of like quick

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Speaker 1: street food. That's street sandwich versus the South, it's a

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Speaker 1: little slower, huh. Yes, but you could go to a

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Speaker 1: gas station and get some bu dan or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Yes, or just like you know, the meat and three

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Speaker 2: kind of places. That is what people go to for

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Speaker 2: a casual meal, you know, and just like to feed

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Speaker 2: themselves every day versus like when I last lived in

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Speaker 2: New York before I moved here, I was at like

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Speaker 2: one hundred ninety fifth Street, like way uptown, and the

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Speaker 2: bodega was the only thing on the corner that we

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Speaker 2: had and so the amount of like turkey sandwiches and

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Speaker 2: chop cheese like from the bodega light every week, that

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Speaker 2: was my diet and now here bodega culture is not

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Speaker 2: a thing at all.

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Speaker 1: Neither is walking culture.

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Speaker 2: It is walking. So you're always like driving to get

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Speaker 2: like a smoothie or like a fresh salad bowl or something.

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Speaker 2: But that's like what people eat. So it's just like

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Speaker 2: it changes so differently your your patents. For sure. My

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Speaker 2: biggest not biggest grite, the thing that I've dealt with

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Speaker 2: is like when I lived in New York and even now,

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Speaker 2: like I wake up early and I love, love, love

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Speaker 2: to get a cup of coffee and like breakfast somewhere

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Speaker 2: like that is like the happiest part of my day.

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Speaker 2: And so in La I was always like there's nowhere

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Speaker 2: to go to get breakfast, like early in the morning

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Speaker 2: because there are bakeries here they don't even open till

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Speaker 2: nine am. I'm like, I've been out for three hours,

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Speaker 2: what are you doing? But the only place to get

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Speaker 2: breakfast is like at a coffee shop and it's like

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Speaker 2: sweet stuff. So there's nowhere to get like an egg

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Speaker 2: sandwich or any kind of like thing that you would

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Speaker 2: find in New York, and so that's been the most

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Speaker 2: difficult thing. But it's because everyone lives a long drive

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Speaker 2: away from everything, so people just make that stuff at home.

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Speaker 2: It just becomes more of like a home cooking culture,

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Speaker 2: even for breakfast, which is great for like what I

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Speaker 2: do and what we do, but makes it not as

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Speaker 2: easy when you just want to like.

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Speaker 1: When you want to have that for breakfast. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: so like I'm not going to lie to you, and

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Speaker 1: I have I have a witness here, Bridget. Every morning

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Speaker 1: I have to go out to a coffee shop, have

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Speaker 1: a coffee and a little breakfast like or a biscuit

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Speaker 1: or whatelse biscuit. I heard you like buscuess. You know what,

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Speaker 1: let's just transition to that. I heard you really like biscuits, man.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's the food I was raised on. It's

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Speaker 2: what the food I have think have the most opinions on.

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Speaker 2: It's like the thing I love the most.

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Speaker 1: The opinions.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I mean yeah, I mean we can get into it,

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Speaker 2: but I feel like a lot of people do them wrong.

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Speaker 2: Outside of.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad I did not bring you a haphazard business.

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Speaker 2: I mean has.

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Speaker 1: Changed your seatings to talk about I.

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Speaker 2: Got a little hot too. I felt like I had

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Speaker 2: like myself and got a little high.

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Speaker 1: I started raising this posture up. He put his shoulders back,

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Speaker 1: had to puff the chest out a little. No, talk

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Speaker 1: to me before we so before we get into your

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Speaker 1: nostalgic meal and talk about that. I do want to

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Speaker 1: dive into this because you know this is the Flaky

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Speaker 1: Biscuit Podcast. How did you feel when I hit you

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Speaker 1: up and you you find out the name of this podcast,

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Speaker 1: Like did you have a situation happened like biscuit? Like what?

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Speaker 2: Oh? No, No, I understood it because like I've I've

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Speaker 2: read your books, I follow you, and I know that

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Speaker 2: you're like an amazing baker who's I've had your stuff too,

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Speaker 2: like here and I of it and obsessed with it.

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Speaker 2: So I'm like, oh, this makes sense. And I know

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Speaker 2: that like what your perspective on and your take on

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Speaker 2: it with all bake goods, but especially biscuits would be

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Speaker 2: amazing because I did know that you grew up in

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Speaker 2: the South as well, So I'm like, he's gonna know,

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Speaker 2: he's gonna know what is important and what's not.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate that. I appreciate it, all right. So again, so

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Speaker 1: right and wrong, and biscuits give me three rights and

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Speaker 1: three wrongs.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the three rights, which is my main thing, is

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Speaker 2: that it cannot be served cold like it has to

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Speaker 2: be hot from the oven after ten minutes. Throw it away,

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Speaker 2: use it you, or use it for something else. I

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Speaker 2: don't throw it away, but I don't serve it to somebody.

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Speaker 1: MS are sustainable guys, no food waste.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you break it up, it over some buttermilk and

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Speaker 2: some peas and you make like a little little cold

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Speaker 2: but bread pudding situation. That's more delicious than it sounds.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying it right now. Definitely use all butter. I'm

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Speaker 2: a fan of like vegetable shortening and certain things like that,

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Speaker 2: and lard for like pie crust. But for biscuits, you

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Speaker 2: want to taste because you're eating, you know, more of

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Speaker 2: it than just like a thin sheet of dough. That

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Speaker 2: and then the thing to do right is to not

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Speaker 2: touch it so much. I see so many people who

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Speaker 2: are really obsessed about getting layers and just like folding

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Speaker 2: into this like laminated type thing, and I'm like, that

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Speaker 2: is I mean, that can produce that can produce great biscuits.

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Speaker 2: But I feel that I mean the way I was

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Speaker 2: raised to do it and the way I've always seen

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Speaker 2: the women in my life and the women in my

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Speaker 2: community do it. Is like once that dough comes together,

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Speaker 2: you barely just pat it out, like you don't even

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Speaker 2: do anything, and then cut it out and let it go.

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Speaker 2: And they're like, it's not supposed to have layers. It's

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Speaker 2: supposed to be like angel biscuits, like very light fluffy.

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Speaker 2: I love the layered biscuits, and I love the ones

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Speaker 2: that have like crunchy stuff on them on the outside

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Speaker 2: and cheese and everything. But for me, the best it's

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Speaker 2: just this very light, barely touched, fluffy biscuit that's hot

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Speaker 2: off the oven.

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Speaker 1: Damn, that's that's a sound bite. That's that. That was

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Speaker 1: like biscuit one on one, like straight education. And I feel,

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Speaker 1: you know, embarrassed now. I know, like a week ago

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Speaker 1: I was posting, I was laminading the shit out of

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Speaker 1: my biscuits.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, if you see, there's no wrong biscuits again,

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Speaker 2: as long as they're hot and like enough salt and

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Speaker 2: have the button, then it's gonna taste good.

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Speaker 1: It's more of like a fluffy biscuit. You like that

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Speaker 1: a flaky biscuit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, there's thing. There's very different types. There's a fluffy,

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Speaker 2: there's a drop kind, there's the flaky kind that has

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Speaker 2: all the layers. Like, there's many different styles, and I'm

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Speaker 2: an equal opportunity either of biscuits. I love them all,

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Speaker 2: So just let you know what I like.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I should Yeah, maybe I should have brought that business.

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Speaker 1: Are you baking soda? Baking powder?

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Speaker 2: Baking powder?

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm baking powder too, But have have.

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Speaker 2: You ever done Edna Lewis's like homemade baking powder. It

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Speaker 2: is like ten times better than the store bought. And

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Speaker 2: once I like convert it over to it, she just

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Speaker 2: like makes her own. So it's like a recipe where

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Speaker 2: you use baking soda, cream of tartar and maybe a

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Speaker 2: little bit of corn starts to kind of like approximate

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Speaker 2: the store bought baking powder, and it does give like

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Speaker 2: better rise to everything. So it kind of like messes

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Speaker 2: with your recipes a little bit. You have to like

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Speaker 2: account for the extra rise, but it damn it's pretty great.

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Speaker 2: Once I switched over, it's you.

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Speaker 1: Know, honestly, people think that and I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you ever run into this that because we do what

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Speaker 1: we do. We know like everything about food or whatever baking,

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Speaker 1: and I literally had no idea that that's how you

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Speaker 1: make bake impowers. Oh yeah, I'm not afraid to admit

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Speaker 1: that I'm gonna try it that I.

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Speaker 2: Didn't know to a couple of years ago. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know, I agree with you. Like the day that

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Speaker 2: you think you've learned everything about food, you should give

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Speaker 2: out because we're all constantly learning. And that's, to me

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Speaker 2: is the fun part about doing this job, you know,

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Speaker 2: is constant learning from other people because everyone has a

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Speaker 2: different perspective on what they know and what they do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So wow, man, we bought to have a whole

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Speaker 1: sidebar about biscuits, that's for sure, But we ain't really

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Speaker 1: here to talk about biscuits per se because I actually

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Speaker 1: cooked something else for you. So if you could let

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Speaker 1: our listeners know what your nostalgic meal is, what you

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Speaker 1: had me prepare for you today.

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Speaker 2: My nostalgic meal is, you know, from growing up in Mississippi,

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Speaker 2: very unglamorous part of the South, I would say Louisiana

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Speaker 2: is like the nice part of the South because you

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Speaker 2: get like the French culture and like all the food

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Speaker 2: and everything, and where I grew up was very not that.

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Speaker 2: It was a very meat and three kind of place,

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Speaker 2: and had a great uncle who owned like a catfish farm,

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Speaker 2: so we had a lot of catfish growing up in

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Speaker 2: like deep fried things, which I truly love, but it

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Speaker 2: is what it is. And so my family growing up,

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Speaker 2: my dad would always was a big deer hunter, and

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Speaker 2: so as someone who was not taken to it, I

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Speaker 2: did not ever go out hunting with him. So I

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Speaker 2: never really got that full experience because I was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm not waking up at three am to go sit

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Speaker 2: out in a tree it's really cold and just be

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Speaker 2: silent for hours, Like I can't do this. But so

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Speaker 2: most mornings when they would go hunting, I would actually

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Speaker 2: just like get in my bed at my grandmother's house,

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Speaker 2: wake up, have breakfast with her. And it was like

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Speaker 2: this whole stereotypical, amazing Southern spread. It was like biscuits.

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Speaker 2: She would make corn bread, she would do scrambled eggs

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Speaker 2: and the sausage grease. There'd be bacon as well, like cheese,

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Speaker 2: toast grits with like a giant pow of butter on top.

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Speaker 2: And she remember she would always set up a glass

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Speaker 2: of whole milk, a glass of grape juice, and then

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Speaker 2: a glass of orange juice, and that was like all

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Speaker 2: the nutrition you needed. So I had to like drink

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Speaker 2: all those of the course of the breakfast. You had

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Speaker 2: to had to. She was like, you got to get

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Speaker 2: all this in. And so in that family, like we

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Speaker 2: grew up deer hunting. Like I don't remember eating anything

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Speaker 2: that wasn't deer meat or like feat there, like game

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Speaker 2: stuff until I was probably like eight or nine. Wow,

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Speaker 2: And that was like going to like eat fast food,

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Speaker 2: So that was like completely different. But that flavor of

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Speaker 2: game meat is always kind of like in me. And

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Speaker 2: so like whenever I think about like my most nostalgic

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Speaker 2: meal growing up, it is my dad would he would

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Speaker 2: take the deer tenderloin because he didn't really know what

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Speaker 2: to do with the rest of the meat. Like a

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Speaker 2: lot of guys they thought like duck and all these

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Speaker 2: kind of meats were tough and they wouldn't like really

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Speaker 2: learn how to cook with it. But they would take

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Speaker 2: like the tender loin part because you didn't have to

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Speaker 2: do anything with and they would deep fry it. And

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Speaker 2: so he would like slice it really thin marinate it

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Speaker 2: in like buttermilk with some Wmistesure sauce and Tabasco sauce,

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Speaker 2: and then dredge it in flour with a lot of

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Speaker 2: black pepper and deep fry it like you would like

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Speaker 2: a country fried steak or fried chicken or something like that.

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Speaker 2: He would serve that hot out of the fryer with

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Speaker 2: some mashed potatoes that have like buttermilk in them. He

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Speaker 2: would leave the skins on, so kind of like new potatoes.

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Speaker 2: And then some zipper cream peas, which are like like

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Speaker 2: a cousin of black eyed peas, but they're green and

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Speaker 2: yellow and like a little bit fatter. Those we had

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Speaker 2: on my family's farm. So we would, you know, spend

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Speaker 2: like two weeks in July hot as hell, oppressive heat again,

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Speaker 2: just like bent over picking these pea pods, and I

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Speaker 2: member my dad. He would hand me like a ten

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Speaker 2: gallon bucket and say, when you feel this, then you

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Speaker 2: can You're done, you can go home.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And you would think, oh, this is gonna be easy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It would be like seven hours later, I'm still like

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Speaker 2: halfway through, and I was like cursing everything because there

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Speaker 2: was like bugs and spiders and just not my thing.

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Speaker 2: So we had to do that and then we would

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Speaker 2: come home, shell them, blanch them, put them in giant bags.

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Speaker 2: And we had like a deep freeze in the garage

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Speaker 2: that we would just it was nothing but frozen deer

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Speaker 2: and peas. I would say we had that meal probably

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Speaker 2: once every two weeks. I would say, could we had

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Speaker 2: so much of it? And that to me is like

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Speaker 2: the one kind of consistent meal we always had at home.

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Speaker 2: That makes me feel like nostalgic for being back in

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Speaker 2: the South and being back in that environment and all

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Speaker 2: that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, wow, you kind of let me speeches the

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Speaker 1: way you just described all that. I mean that was

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Speaker 1: because you're really describing some very intricate moments. Like it's

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Speaker 1: not just oh like I used to eat this, I

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Speaker 1: used to eat that. It's you remember holding a bucket

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Speaker 1: and picking the pe You remember the deep freezer with

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Speaker 1: all the deer meat. You remember all these little details,

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Speaker 1: and look, you know I did my best. Obviously, I

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Speaker 1: ain't got your daddy's peas. You know I got you.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't find your daddy's peas. You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of part of your DNA in a bit.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: You lived in New York and you live now in

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Speaker 1: LA Do you often eat venison?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's not easy to find. There's some restaurants here,

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Speaker 2: one that I really love. It's called Dunsmore and they

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Speaker 2: he does kind of like American heritage cooking, he calls it,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of from the South as well. So

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Speaker 2: there's lots of like game meat on that but he

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Speaker 2: hasn't had deer meat on there yet, but a lot

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Speaker 2: of like bison and goose and peasant and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: But it's not easy to find.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 2: I remember in New York. I tried to find some too,

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Speaker 2: and they're like I think, like Cinderella had venison for

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Speaker 2: a while and I say, oh, this is crazy, and

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Speaker 2: then I went back to get it and it was

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Speaker 2: just like never again. So I haven't really tried to

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Speaker 2: recreate it outside of the South because also like something

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Speaker 2: special to me about enjoying it when I'm in the South,

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Speaker 2: because that's like, what is a special part of being there?

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Speaker 2: So I kind of don't want to or not don't want.

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Speaker 1: To today biscuits except today there's a special exemption clause

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Speaker 1: in nostalgic memories.

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Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, I don't want to

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Speaker 2: make it so that it's so every day in my

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Speaker 2: life now that whenever I go home it's not special.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. That's true. Well you shoot, I mean

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Speaker 1: talk about shoes to fill. Hey, I'm just here to

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Speaker 1: have a conversation. So, like, here's where I went. By

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Speaker 1: the way. It's I think it's called Harmony Harmony Farms, right.

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Speaker 1: It was about a twenty minute drive. Basically I drove

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Speaker 1: around a mountain range because like when I looked at

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Speaker 1: the map, I was like, oh, it's not that far,

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Speaker 1: but I shit, I gotta drive. So it's I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to explain exactly directionally lacery.

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Speaker 2: I thinks I think their nickname is the Balcony of

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Speaker 2: of Southern California or something, because they're right at the

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Speaker 2: like where the mountains kind of stopped when they had

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Speaker 2: that look off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, very is. It was very beautiful and there's

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Speaker 1: so this place had Elk Venison, buffalo everything, and okay,

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Speaker 1: it was nice. I walked in frog legs. Yeah, don't

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Speaker 1: get me started on frog. Okay, I'll play with them.

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Speaker 2: I have to tell you a story about frog legs,

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Speaker 2: so tell it to me right now. There's a place

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Speaker 2: in the restaurant here called Scaffs. It's like a Lebanese

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Speaker 2: spots in Glendale that they do these kind of like

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Speaker 2: spicy frog legs, the things what they call it. It's

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Speaker 2: kind of like Cajun style the barbecue shrimp, where it's

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Speaker 2: like it's really spicy, butter saucy, and the frog legs

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Speaker 2: are fantastic. I had them probably a month ago, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh wow, this is I don't know

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Speaker 2: why they make them, but they do, and they're really good.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go try them because my dad

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Speaker 1: he used to make Oh man, he used to make

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Speaker 1: frog legs, saying because you know, I'm Hondurans, so Hondurans

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Speaker 1: and New Orleans. Sometimes we double dip in things that

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Speaker 1: we enjoy. So like people in New Orleans like frog legs,

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Speaker 1: and so do Hon Durance. So there's different just like

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Speaker 1: pig feet stuff like that, like big feet wet and

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Speaker 1: we eat in New Orleans. So anyway, so my dad

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Speaker 1: used to play with frog legs. Man likes it. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna break down what I did for the listeners

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Speaker 1: at home. I ain't about to bring this man some

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Speaker 1: country fried deer that's been sitting in a container for

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Speaker 1: an hour, nas, and I'm frying it fresh. So I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna have to get up and fry it. But what

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Speaker 1: I did with the other things, So let's start with

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Speaker 1: the peas. Obviously, I ain't got your daddy's peas black

396
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,360
Speaker 1: eyed peas man, that's you know you when you described

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Speaker 1: this dish, you said, it's kind of like the cousin.

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Speaker 1: So I brought the cousin. So I was not able

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Speaker 1: to find the heritage on the family tree. I had

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Speaker 1: to bring the cousin in. Actually, so I have no

401
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Speaker 1: clue how they were prepared. But my guess is so

402
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 1: I did a lot of butter. I did a little

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Speaker 1: bit of time fresh time. I did some garlic and onion,

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00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of onion, minced salt, pepper. But the

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Speaker 1: salt I used. So when we were driving here from

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Speaker 1: New York, we stopped in New Mexico and I got

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Speaker 1: this hatch chili salt that it's just like. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I guess I'll have it for the rest of my life,

409
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Speaker 1: because no matter how much I use, the pacts still full.

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Speaker 1: So I thought it'd be cool to add a little

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Speaker 1: bit of heat to them with the salt. Actually know,

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Speaker 1: I'll just pause there. How were the peas prepared in

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Speaker 1: your I.

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Speaker 2: Was about to say the ones you made are going

415
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Speaker 2: to be much nicer because mine would literally she would

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Speaker 2: pour My mom would pour a little bit of water

417
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Speaker 2: over them and like a spoonful of bacon grease and

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Speaker 2: just warm them up.

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Speaker 1: And that was a freshly picked so they had to

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Speaker 1: have that beautifairy stargy my yeah, yeah, all right. So

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Speaker 1: then with the potatoes, the buttermilk, I mean I got

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Speaker 1: look red skin on potato. I mean I didn't look again,

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Speaker 1: I'm not reinventing the wheel here for me to say,

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Speaker 1: I'm I created you know, am I going to post

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Speaker 1: a recipe of shondaland dot com?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

427
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,440
Speaker 1: But did I did I create this recipe? No? I

428
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Speaker 1: mean it's this mashed potatoes, so you know, skin on,

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Speaker 1: boiled them tender, some butter, some buttermilk, actually a little

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Speaker 1: bit of regular milk as well. Cream them with salt

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Speaker 1: and pepper and a little bit of tony satura. You know,

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Speaker 1: you boys had to put some tony yes.

433
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:50,800
Speaker 2: Pantry as we speak.

434
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,040
Speaker 1: And then now to the to the million dollar questions.

435
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,800
Speaker 1: So I went to Harmony Farm I got this, so

436
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:02,120
Speaker 1: in the spirit of transparency, they had the deer tenderloin frozen.

437
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,480
Speaker 1: Everything was frozen, so they didn't have you know, locally hunted,

438
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 1: I guess in the mountains.

439
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 2: Hunt.

440
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So the pack of just tenderloin they only

441
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 1: sold in twos. The mug with like one hundred bucks,

442
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,639
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh shit. But he was like,

443
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,399
Speaker 1: I got a t bone, the tea bone deer. So

444
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,119
Speaker 1: part of it's it's like the file at obviously, I guess.

445
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,639
Speaker 1: And then the tenderloin part like the beginning of the tendriline,

446
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,159
Speaker 1: and that was like fifteen bucks. I was like, you

447
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,479
Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna take this, So I took that.

448
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,880
Speaker 1: It was frozen, so I left in the fridge overnight

449
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 1: and then I marinated it in buttermilk with that Louisiana

450
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,480
Speaker 1: red Dot hot sauce. You already know whatever it is.

451
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,240
Speaker 1: Let that kind of sit for a bit and I'm

452
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,000
Speaker 1: about to go and actually fry it right now, fresh one.

453
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,120
Speaker 1: And so for the breading, I usually when I fried

454
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,080
Speaker 1: chicken or something, I'll do like a three I'll do

455
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,560
Speaker 1: a white flower, a dredge, and then a seasoned flour.

456
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 1: Since these are soaked in so much buttermilk, I'm actually

457
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 1: gonna go straight into my seasoned flour. I'm gonna skip

458
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,119
Speaker 1: the first white flower stage. So I'm gonna go do

459
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 1: that for you right now. And I don't know bridge

460
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 1: it might entertain you and ask you how much your

461
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 1: mouth is salivate.

462
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm very very excited about this right now.

463
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 1: Give me five minutes, and if you cry, cry with you. Okay,

464
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 1: don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this. Welcome

465
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,360
Speaker 1: back to Waky Biscuits.

466
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:48,200
Speaker 2: You are fantastic. Oh my god, this looks exactly right.

467
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 2: And except for the piece, of course.

468
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 1: Of course, of course I've got something for you actually

469
00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 1: because the ketchup. Oh yes, packets of ketch up here.

470
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,760
Speaker 1: I'm back. I'm back. I'm back, and yeah, we're gonna

471
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,640
Speaker 1: dig in because I'm actually starving.

472
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 2: Same I didn't. I've not eaten anything, so I'm like

473
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 2: dying for this in anticipation.

474
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,119
Speaker 1: All you gotta do is eat, okay, and the rest

475
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:16,880
Speaker 1: will expose itself, you know.

476
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean the smell is taking me back now.

477
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 2: I feel like I feel crazy a little bit because

478
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,200
Speaker 2: it's like, wow, this is I've not smelled the smell

479
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 2: in such a long time. Oh man, this is amazing.

480
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 2: Now did you try this before you?

481
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: So I had a tiny bite when I fried some

482
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 1: before you came in. It was quite good. But I

483
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: don't know how I fried it, you know, I don't know.

484
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 1: I've never really cooked deer before today.

485
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 2: Oh wow, So we're gonna take a bite together.

486
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:43,919
Speaker 1: Let's take a bite together.

487
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 2: Cheers, cheers, m m. The batter crust is perfect, tastes

488
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 2: just like his. So whatever you did it was right.

489
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 2: My god, what do you think?

490
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,680
Speaker 1: Oh, ma'am, I'm just gonna eat real quick.

491
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,159
Speaker 2: Hold on, this is much more tender, dear. Other what

492
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 2: he had, yeah, wild stuff he got was just like

493
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 2: it was pretty chelly sometimes. So this is this is

494
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 2: really nice?

495
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 1: What about the flavor? What about the gaminess?

496
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 2: This is definitely milder. I think the reason probably why

497
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 2: he always prepared it this way with so much black

498
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 2: pepper and so much hot salts and a stuff was

499
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 2: to kind of like cut the gaminess of it because

500
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 2: it was definitely like darker than this as well. It's

501
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 2: like veal venison. This is like much tender like mild

502
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 2: and like really nice.

503
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: So wow, it's quite good man. How about them peas, man,

504
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 1: get in, get into them. Black eyes pea does tastes

505
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 1: great because I had to rinse them after I had

506
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 1: I cooked him do a juice salt. You had to

507
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: rinse them and recook them.

508
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 2: And I kind of like the I like the little

509
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 2: bit of hatch chili, Like the spice is really nice

510
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 2: because otherwise you just have you know, creamy playing, creamy playing,

511
00:21:58,560 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 2: so it's kind of nice to have something to break

512
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: it up.

513
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: Mmm. Man, it's good.

514
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 2: I'm gonna try the potatoes.

515
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is why.

516
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 2: And people always talk about potatoes or like a ton

517
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 2: of butter and cream. They went like super like almost

518
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,360
Speaker 2: like ice cream. I'm just like no, because I kind

519
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 2: of like the way this is, Like it's lean with

520
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 2: the buttermilk. It's not too rich. You feel like you're

521
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: actually eating potatoes.

522
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: It's like a potato. Yeah yeah, yeah. I've never got

523
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: into the like super whisked, silky smooth, like liquid style

524
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 1: mashed potato. Like I get it and like it's good,

525
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: but I like to be it's potatoes still.

526
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,360
Speaker 2: All the crust bits and you kind of like I.

527
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: Mean, like, you know, when you've had this prepared, does

528
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 1: the crust kind of crisp off like that? I mean,

529
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't even know what I'm doing.

530
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 2: It literally would create that kind of gap when you

531
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 2: fry and kind of fall off sometimes.

532
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, and what about the inside. Is it supposed

533
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: to be more medium rare? I mean because I I

534
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: fried it, because you said it was thinly sliced. Yeah,

535
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: so I tried to thinly slice what I had almost

536
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 1: like got in ma Asana. This kind of reminds me

537
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: because like got me Asida, like a lot of people like, oh,

538
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 1: like I don't want my meat well done. I'm like, hey, listen,

539
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: if I'm going to eat a good guy in asala,

540
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 1: it might be cooked a little bit.

541
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 2: And yeah, exactly, Well it's so thin it's going to

542
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 2: break apart, and you have all those seasonings, so it's yeah,

543
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 2: this was when he made it, it was definitely well done.

544
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: Like my parents did not cook, did not eat meat

545
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 2: that was had any red or pink at all. So

546
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 2: like this again is an improvement because it's not so

547
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: like hard done.

548
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: All right, Ben, I want to know did this meal

549
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: bring you back? Was I able to make this deer,

550
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: these potatoes, and these peas. Was I able to make

551
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: it to the point where you are back in your parents' house.

552
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm definitely sitting at my parents' table, and you know,

553
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 2: I can see the I think it was called a grandpappy,

554
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 2: the countertop fryer that you like plug in, that's what

555
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 2: he would use to fry it in. And just like

556
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 2: thinking about that, how like once it cooled down, filtering

557
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 2: the oil, sticking it under the sink and just like

558
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: in that like tub of grease under the sink, that

559
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: whole image as well. Yeah, I'm sitting with my family.

560
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 2: We're having a good time, having a great dinner because

561
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 2: that was this was always my favorite dinner to have,

562
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: so whenever that happened, it was like holiday in the

563
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 2: middle of the week. So this is taking me back.

564
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 2: It feels great.

565
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: I'm glad, man, I'm glad. I'm glad we could reconnect

566
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: like this. Yes, absolutely, I guess I met you what

567
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty it was I think I did a

568
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: pop up out here and I kind of gusto. Yeah, yeah,

569
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: this was a pretty cool way to reconnect with you, man,

570
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 1: And I'm glad to have brought you, I guess nostalgia.

571
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 1: They call it the proost effect, you know, so that's

572
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: what we're kind of going for. Are you familiar with

573
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: the Pruf effect? Oh?

574
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely, the metal ends.

575
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, talk to me about that. What is that

576
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: part of like, because if our listeners don't know, Ben's

577
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: got a pretty extensive food knowledge and history of working

578
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: in food. I mean, is knowing about the proof phenomenon

579
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,640
Speaker 1: like part of your everyday work? Do you strive for it?

580
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: Is that how you make recipes?

581
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I mean absolutely, And I think that the

582
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 2: proosed effect is you know, I haven't read the pros

583
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 2: and a long time, but it's that idea of you know,

584
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: you're you're much older and you taste something from your

585
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,239
Speaker 2: childhood and immediately takes you back to when you were

586
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 2: a kid and like that kind of wonderful feeling that

587
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: you had back when you first had it. Kind of

588
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 2: like the food critic and ratitude as well, that everyone

589
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 2: always it's the biggest example.

590
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: I hope soon one day people will be like, yeah,

591
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: kind of like Brian Ford on Flaky Business like kind of.

592
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 2: That will happen the next generation for sure. But yeah,

593
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 2: that is like you know what, I'm always trying to

594
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: appeal to in people, and you know, whenever I even

595
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 2: develop a new recipe made nothing's new. So it's always

596
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 2: like taking what people already know, the best parts of

597
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: what they know, kind of changing it a little bit,

598
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 2: but like always being able to kind of bring it

599
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: back to what people know and love and like something

600
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 2: that will bring them back to a little bit of

601
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 2: nostalgia without yeah, you know, going too far back.

602
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting what you just said, nothing's new. There

603
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: was something I saw online about someone saying about time

604
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 1: I got credit for my recipe. It's about time I

605
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: got the credit I deserved for XYZ and I you know,

606
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: I wish I could go into more detail, but I'm

607
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: not going to. And in my head, I was like,

608
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 1: credit for what you how old are you? Forty five?

609
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: Where you from?

610
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 2: What did you create exactly?

611
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 3: You know?

612
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: And I would love to hear more about that though,

613
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: I mean, nothing's.

614
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: New, nothing's new. We like, I mean, there's only so

615
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 2: many ways to prepare food, and we've all been kind

616
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 2: of doing it the same way, and everyone, especially now

617
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 2: at this generation, we're all taking what we've known in

618
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 2: the past and what we've been taught and just kind

619
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 2: of putting our new spin on it. And I think

620
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 2: to think that you know, you're creating something brand new,

621
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 2: or that you have the power and the influence to

622
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: kind of like change what has been going on for

623
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: centuries is kind of like is wild to me because

624
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: I think what everyone offers as recipe developers, cookbook authors

625
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: is just a new way of looking at it. I

626
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: remember there was I can't remember who said it, and

627
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 2: by even like Nile Rogers like about songs about love

628
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 2: songs and he was like, every love song is the same.

629
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 2: It's about love, but it's the job of the artist

630
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 2: of the day to figure out a new way to

631
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 2: interpret that, to like bring a new way that no

632
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 2: one's ever thought about about how to say I love

633
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 2: you to someone in a song. It's the same way

634
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 2: with recipes, where it's like everyone's doing the same meat

635
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: low for the same like chocolate cream pie or whatever.

636
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 2: But it's like, what can you bring to it, even

637
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: if it's just your story and where it came from

638
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: for you, or just like an influence from a family member.

639
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be in a brand new recipe,

640
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: and it's just a way to get someone to think

641
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 2: about something that already exists that's like new to them

642
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 2: and is fun and brings back memories that maybe they

643
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 2: didn't realize they had in the past.

644
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, that was actually really beautifully put, honestly,

645
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,159
Speaker 1: because I think that's how I kind of view the

646
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: work that I do. It's like, hey, it's bread, right

647
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: at the end of the day. If someone tries to

648
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: take ownership of bread, or if someone is given ownership.

649
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 2: To bread, that's ridiculous. Yeah, exactly.

650
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: Anyway, so that was a nice little side path. But

651
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: I'm curious, how did you how did you get into food? Like,

652
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 1: how did you how did you formulate this path? Really?

653
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,239
Speaker 1: I mean you know how you started off maybe you know,

654
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: eating this dish right, picking those peas and eating that,

655
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: opening the freezer full of venison to actually now, I mean,

656
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: you're a columnist for the La Times. Man, that's phenomenal.

657
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: How did you kind of figure that out? You know?

658
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 2: I think the love of writing about food came from

659
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 2: when I was in college. Knew I wanted to work

660
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: in journalism, and I was in journalism school in Mississippi.

661
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: I interned for a summer at a newspaper in Vicksburg, Mississippi.

662
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: I remember I worked kind of like every beat that

663
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 2: they had throughout the whole summer. So I had to

664
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 2: go to like the courthouse for a couple of weeks.

665
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 2: I had to like walk through jail sales for a

666
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 2: couple of weeks. I had to like go go to

667
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 2: car crash scenes for a couple of weeks, and like

668
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: work all these different beats, and I saw a lot

669
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: of bad things, like a lot of things I sat

670
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,959
Speaker 2: on in, like courtrooms that I didn't love, and like

671
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 2: walking through prisons and having people yell at you, and

672
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: like showing up and seeing my dead bodies on the

673
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 2: side of the street, like a lot of stuff. And

674
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: I was like, you know what, I want to be

675
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 2: a journalist. I want to write, but this is not

676
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: the kind of stuff that I want to cover. Like

677
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 2: I'm just not built for it. And I know that

678
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 2: if I want to write about something, it has to

679
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 2: be something I love, and that's either music or food.

680
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: There's gotta be something else like that. And so I

681
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: think because of growing up with meals like this, my

682
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: grandmother was that kind of like I said, southern grandmother

683
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 2: who just like she made the fried chicken and collar greens,

684
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: and she made everything from scratch, lived out on a

685
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: farm where we had the peas and everything. So it

686
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: was just I had the kind of food in my

687
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: blood and my mother was a great baker as well,

688
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: so we food was always just like a big thing

689
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: that had a lot of memories tied to it, and

690
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: I was like, this is what I'm interested in most.

691
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: I love cooking. So then I went to culinary school,

692
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: interned at Cever way back in the day, and got

693
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: a job there, and kind of, I hate to say that,

694
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: I didn't really have like a full fledge like this

695
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 2: is what I'm going to be path. It was just

696
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: I know that I love food, I love writing about it,

697
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: and I'm going to take any job that anyone gives

698
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: me that allows me to do that. And I also

699
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: think growing up and having parents who did jobs that

700
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: they didn't want to do and made them miserable just

701
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: to make money made me be like, Okay, I will

702
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: do whatever it takes to never be miserable in the

703
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: work that I do, even if that means I'm not

704
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: paid well. And journalism does not pay well. Working food

705
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: does not pay well. So I was kind of like

706
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: I've made peace with that. From early on, I was like,

707
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: I'm never going to make a lot of money, but

708
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: at least I'm going to be happy doing what I do.

709
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 2: I've always kind of occupied a space where you either

710
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: worked in a test kitchen or you got to write

711
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 2: about food, and I didn't realize that most people don't

712
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: do both, and so I somehow kind of managed to

713
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: always making an important thing to communicate that I wanted

714
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: to do both. And then you know, the industry has

715
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: changed over the last fifteen years since I started to

716
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: where now lies. That's what most people do, and that's

717
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: what cookbooks are now as well. So this job I

718
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: have now is a dream job. It's great because I

719
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: get to go to the farmer's markets, I get to

720
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: think about food. I get to create something at home

721
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: and then write a story to kind of hopefully get

722
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: people to want to make it or kind of inspire

723
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: them to cook as well. And so I'm kind of

724
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: where I thought I would always get to, which is

725
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 2: really nice. But then you know, you always want to

726
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 2: continue learning and growing and doing something else. So it's

727
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: like just always taking jobs and enjoying the process and

728
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: just letting it kind of happen, which I know is

729
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: easier said than done.

730
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: But you're right about one thing. You know, when you

731
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: have passion to do it, that's really all. I mean.

732
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: I had parents that hustle bro me, you know, my

733
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: parents immigrants and immigrants that came into the South, and

734
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: I think I think the South is something that we

735
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: both obviously have in common and that we both we

736
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: might have a contentious relationship with, right because you know,

737
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: I've gone through stuff that's damn that's hard. Tok about

738
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,959
Speaker 1: you go home and you're excited and you know, oh

739
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 1: my mom made this or whatever, like oh, you know,

740
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go eat at this restaurant, but then like

741
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: when you stop to get gas, you might get killed.

742
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: Yeah oh yeah, yeah yeah, like shit. Yeah. I mean,

743
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: I'm a white guy going in the South, and even

744
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 2: I'm uncomfortable because I'm gay. So it's like when I

745
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: go down there, I don't even have the fear of

746
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 2: the pressure that you're going through, but even I still

747
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 2: feel it too. And so it's always in certain ways

748
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 2: where I can't really be myself at a gas stations

749
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: and you never know what's going to happen.

750
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean, you could someone could look at me

751
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: in the South and immediately know their prejudice against me

752
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: and maybe not you. But I think what you're saying

753
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: is that you can't be your self. Yeah, and that

754
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: must be very very difficult to kind of process, right,

755
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: like trying to enjoy all this food culture that we love, right,

756
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: like biscuits and this is that or whatever. Yeah, but

757
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: you feel like you can't be yourself there.

758
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: Well, and that and that is what makes you They

759
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: have that relationship with the South so so hard because

760
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: it's a place I grew up and I do love,

761
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 2: and it's not a place that I necessarily want to

762
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 2: go back to all the time. And like even like,

763
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: if I'm being truthly honest, when you we had this meal,

764
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: it took me back to being around my family's table

765
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 2: and like the warm feelings that that brings about. But

766
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: it also reminded me of like when I came out

767
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 2: to them at that same dinner table, you know, fifteen

768
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 2: years ago, and things did not go well and it

769
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: was like really rough, and so like, am it's was it?

770
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: This meal?

771
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 2: It was not this meal? Thank god? The meal that

772
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: it was, I don't ever eat I'd ever cook myself

773
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 2: because it's it's traumatic. So it's like there's good and

774
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 2: bad memories tied to food. But I think for me

775
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: and maybe for you as well, when you grew up

776
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 2: in a place that you know, you don't feel like

777
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: you can be yourself or that is not what you

778
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 2: wanted it to be, the food is kind of can

779
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: be the way to still love it and enjoy it

780
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: and be like, Okay, these are the good memories, right,

781
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: and it tastes good and it's gonna be great. It's

782
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 2: gonna mind you of like maybe that your grandmother or

783
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: someone who was not a problem, you know, from where

784
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 2: you grew up and stuff like that. And so that's

785
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: at least why I I'm always kind of like reaching

786
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: towards the South and the food that I grew up

787
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: with to kind of like using my work because definitely,

788
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: like I would it would love to have better memories

789
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: tied to it than than I do.

790
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, no, one hundred percent. And I think

791
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: like I've always been curious and that you know, for me,

792
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: it's I can show up somewhere and I'm just this

793
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: is who I am. You can see, you can see

794
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: I'm brown, black, whatever you think, and that's what it is,

795
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna be like, yeah, what's up? Do you ever,

796
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: how does it feel to have to like do you shift?

797
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: I mean, do you like, like, if you want in

798
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: a gas station to get gas, do you do anything differently?

799
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: Do you change anything about yourself?

800
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: I mean that must be insane, yeah, but I mean

801
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: I feel like it's it's like what I hear a

802
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 2: lot of my POC friends talk about code shifting, where

803
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 2: it's like you learn how to talk around different groups

804
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 2: of people, like, oh, yeah, if I go I mean

805
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 2: even when I drive up to like the Bay Area

806
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: to visit my partner sometimes and I stop at a

807
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: gas station in you know, the middle of California, you

808
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: walk a little different. You I make sure to like

809
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: it's weird. You're almost like a straight man drag in

810
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 2: a weird way where it's like I'm a not that

811
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 2: I walk any like I walk in whatever.

812
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: You make sure just about your every your mannerism is right, and.

813
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: I make sure not to maybe to wear like looser

814
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 2: fitting clothing than I would wear like otherwise, because you

815
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: just want to make sure that no one's going to

816
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 2: see you and be like now's the day that they

817
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 2: want to call trouble or something like that, you know.

818
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 2: So it's I feel like it's not even probably what

819
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 2: you deal with or like what other people deal with,

820
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 2: but it's it's a similar thing. I just like it is.

821
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 2: So you do what you got to do to protect yourself,

822
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 2: you know.

823
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: You know what I've learned. It's not a competition, Like

824
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: we're not we're not out here to compete. We we're

825
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: just going through some real ship. Man. We're we're just

826
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: trying to get gas. We're just trying.

827
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 2: We're just trying to drive exactly.

828
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: So it's like it's not necessarily like oh, but what

829
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: you go through is harder. It's more just like hey, man,

830
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: like I feel you that need to have to be like,

831
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,479
Speaker 1: oh shit, like I got to be around these people.

832
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: I'm in awe that you had the courage to go

833
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: through this, like talk to your parents and to have

834
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: a meal like this and to really think about the good.

835
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: You like to focus on the good. I don't know

836
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: if that's how you always are, but like my brain

837
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: sometimes goes like too negative, you know, and it can

838
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,439
Speaker 1: be hard to balance like the love hate. Sometimes you'll

839
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: be at home and I ask you more towards the

840
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: hate and the negative and like and hate. I think

841
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: my takeaway right now talking to you is, you know,

842
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: you're having a meal that reminds me of your parents.

843
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: I read that you don't talk much with them, don't,

844
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: but but you're still able to have this meal and

845
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: focus on the good. And I think you should be

846
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: proud of that. Ben. Honestly, that's incredible. I think it's

847
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: really really special that you're able to think about those

848
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: good times.

849
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think you got to do it

850
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: to survive sometimes and just like not let it kind

851
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: of drag you down all the time. And I think

852
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 2: also you make it sound much nicer than it is,

853
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: Like maybe I have avoidance of emotions, so it's like

854
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 2: makes it easier to be kind of like faced about it.

855
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 2: But it's definitely, you know, focusing on the good. It's

856
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 2: also a privileges I get to have as well. I

857
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 2: am able to do it because I don't talk to

858
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 2: them and like I don't go home ever. So it's

859
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 2: like once you create that kind of physical and emotional

860
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: distance too, it's a little bit easier. But learning to

861
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 2: try to focus on the good parts about it, like

862
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 2: the food and just like the good memories. I think

863
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: helps to kind of maybe make peace with things that

864
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 2: aren't great.

865
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: So I get it. Yeah, No, that's you know, and

866
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: also it's not all doom and gloom, right, it's beautiful.

867
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, talk to me about how

868
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: gay people have influenced Southern food. I mean, I know

869
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 1: that you know a lot about this, and I would

870
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: love to learn some more. Oh.

871
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: I mean, probably the most influential figures in food were

872
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 2: gay men, Like you talk about Craig Claiborne, who's also

873
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: from Mississippi. You know, who started the Star system restaurant

874
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 2: ratings at the New York Times. James Beard. Hello, I

875
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 2: think everyone knows him and like what his influence on

876
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 2: the landscape was. You know, there's several cookbook authors who

877
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 2: back in the seventies and eighties who were gay men

878
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: who have a lot of influence over me, like Richard's

879
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 2: as he was one who had like a dessert book

880
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: that's still like the Bible that I go to and

881
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: look to for any kind of like baking and desserts

882
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. So, you know, cooking and food

883
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 2: has always been primarily the domain of women throughout history,

884
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: and I think that you know, if you're a gay

885
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 2: man and you are close to those women, which we

886
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: mostly are, that that just becomes like, oh, I'm into

887
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: this as well, and like that kind of becomes your

888
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: way to maybe relate to people, or to like relate

889
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: to those women in your life, or just like find

890
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 2: a purpose because there's a lot more gay people, like

891
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 2: even in restaurant kitchens I used to work with, and

892
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: I would think just because that feels like such a

893
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 2: macho culture that doesn't have room for it. But you

894
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,439
Speaker 2: know a lot of gay men or gay men would

895
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 2: turn to like pastry and stuff like the easier or

896
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 2: the more like whatever. Not easier, but the types the

897
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: restaurant work where they could be kind of more protected

898
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: or kind of siloed away from the rest of it.

899
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: So there's definitely, yeah, something to that and like the

900
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: influence over it, but also I think it's just people

901
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 2: wanting to try to find their place in the landscape,

902
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: in the world and what we do. And however that means.

903
00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: Man bam them's out here spitting crazy knowledge. He became

904
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: a community.

905
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

906
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: We'll be back after these messages from our sponsors. You

907
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: don't like what comes next? So let's get right back

908
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: into You went from Mississippi to New.

909
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 2: York, straight to New York, less southern bog to New

910
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:35,919
Speaker 2: York City.

911
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: It's tough, actually, you know, no matter trauma or not,

912
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: it's just such a comforting it's such a comforting place

913
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: and it can be hard to go into that electric energy.

914
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right, So how was that?

915
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you went straight to New York City.

916
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 2: Straight to New York. And I remember the first like

917
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 2: a couple months I was there, people thought I was

918
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 2: Australian because the way I talked. I was like, what,

919
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: that doesn't make sense. But I remember having to like

920
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: physically try to like change the way I talked because

921
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 2: people could not understand me. That's such a thick Southern

922
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 2: accent or you know, people also think you're stupid if

923
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: you have like a Southern accent. And so it was

924
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:13,439
Speaker 2: something I never had thought about.

925
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: So you came, you didn't even need the accent. You

926
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: tell them you're from Louisiana and they'll be like, okay,

927
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,919
Speaker 1: what is it. I'm just like hold up, though, like chill,

928
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 1: like what's up? Let's go cook? Like yeah that sucks,

929
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:24,760
Speaker 1: huh yeah exactly.

930
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 2: And so I mean, and I never like took it

931
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: too personally, but I was like, this is something that

932
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 2: now I have to kind of change about myself. But

933
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 2: also like growing up in the South, I kind of

934
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 2: knew I didn't belong because I would like walk faster

935
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: than everybody. The people that I kind of grew up

936
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 2: with were not my kind of people. I kind of

937
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 2: knew I thought differently, you know, the things I would

938
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 2: hear growing up, like family members or friends say the

939
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 2: N word and just like casually, and I even from

940
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: a young age, I was like, this feels weird, what's

941
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 2: going on here? And like my mother, who one of

942
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 2: her best friends was a black woman who she taught

943
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 2: school with. I remember she like raised money to buy

944
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: her a car, and like we were very deeply involved

945
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 2: in their family, would go visited them all the time.

946
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 2: But then like on the weekend, my mom would say

947
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 2: the N word. So I was just like, damn, it's

948
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 2: such a complicated place. And I just remember being like

949
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 2: something about this is doesn't feel right. And not that

950
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 2: racism obviously doesn't exist in the North or anywhere else,

951
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 2: and it's not exactly a part of the culture in

952
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 2: the rest of the country, but it was just something.

953
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't think I belong here. Something

954
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 2: is weird here. I definite knew I was gay, so

955
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't stay here. I got to

956
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 2: go somewhere. So New York was kind of like the

957
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 2: way to get out be able to figure out who

958
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: I was outside of the South, which is, you know,

959
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 2: you either you either adopt that culture or you don't.

960
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 2: It's a place where everyone's kind of living the same

961
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, not in good or bad ways,

962
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 2: just it is what it is. So trying to get

963
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: out and find your own lane in place to be.

964
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 2: That was New York for me.

965
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Wow, But yeah, but New York City.

966
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, even me, I'm like, damn like that. When

967
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: I walk around New York, I'm like, oh, I feel

968
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: like I'm like, oh, man, like I know, you know

969
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I know about Hispanic culture, I know

970
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: about this and that. But I'd be learning every day.

971
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: I'd be learning something I'd been walking around. Oh this

972
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,479
Speaker 1: is a Bangladeshi neighborhood snip, and they like Argentina because

973
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: of a soccer game or something. This and that. Afghanist

974
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: foods off the chain, you know. So the New York

975
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: City's the kind of place that overwhelms your stimulus.

976
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 2: Yep. Absolutely, which, back to.

977
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: The point, can be difficult when you come from the

978
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 1: South and go there. Not everyone can quite make that transition.

979
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: But I feel like the people that do, like Ben Memes,

980
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, like like, oh, this is

981
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: what life should be. Yeah, is that you kind of

982
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 1: had that kind of like, oh, like look at all

983
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 1: these people, these cultures.

984
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 2: I think if you're searching for a different life or

985
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: searching for just a different way of living than what

986
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: you're in right now, then you'll adopt to a new

987
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 2: environment like that, because it's just it is so new

988
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: and so different from what I was growing up in

989
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 2: the South. And when I got there, I never really

990
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 2: felt like, oh this is bad or this is hard.

991
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: It was just like it was fast and it was

992
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 2: loud all the time. But it almost was like at

993
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 2: least it's not the South like for me.

994
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 1: As long as you stay in the five well four

995
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: of the boroughs.

996
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I went to Dowtn Island all the time time.

997
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 2: I liked it. Oh you're good, are you good?

998
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: Okay? I Actually I think I've only I actually have

999
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: never stepped foot. You know what, Well, I'm not even

1000
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 1: gonna say shit about stat N Island. I love y'all.

1001
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 2: You know what you gotta go get. I think it's

1002
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: called John's. I might be making that name because every

1003
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 2: pizza place named John's. But there's a specific style of

1004
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 2: Staten Island pizza where it's like it's thin as a

1005
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 2: cracker and it's like thirty inches, like large pie. I

1006
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: can't remember where it was, but it was pretty good.

1007
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: Damn yeah, I gotta get me some of that stat

1008
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: Now pie. What was your favorite meal in New York

1009
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: when you got there? Like, what's your New York nostalgic meal?

1010
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 2: Well, I think mostly because of where I lived the

1011
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 2: last five years, up at one hundred and ninety fIF Street,

1012
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: which is a largely Dominican neighborhood.

1013
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: It was not.

1014
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 2: It was a little food desert and like the nearest

1015
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 2: thing to walk to was like a Starbucks ten minutes away.

1016
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 2: But we had a bodega on the corner that did

1017
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: cheat your own and like the sweet plantains and the

1018
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 2: rice and beans stop it. And my favorite memory was

1019
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: the guy who uh who owned it, who was the

1020
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 2: behind the cashier cash register. He always had a box

1021
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 2: of avocados behind him and when you asked for one,

1022
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: he would literally go through and feel like dozens of them,

1023
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 2: find you the perfect one. So I never had a

1024
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 2: bad avocado in New York in those years because he

1025
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 2: would always pick you the best one can sell it

1026
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 2: to you. And that so that meal a lot of

1027
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 2: top of teo on it. We would have probably have

1028
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 2: like once a week, and it was my favorite thing.

1029
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 1: Man, let me tell you something right now. You just

1030
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: that's my love language is when you start saying yeah,

1031
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: got there, like yes, oh man, all right, so you

1032
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: made it out here to La, Like, what's next? What's next?

1033
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: For Ben Mimes? Man, I mean, how how's life? You

1034
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: just kind of chill in La Times is good?

1035
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: La Times is good? Uh, who knows? But I mean,

1036
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 2: definitely I'm working on a cookbook right now. Actually that

1037
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 2: is about cookies from all over the world, so I'll

1038
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 2: be baking a lot of cookies recently and doing that

1039
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. So definitely more cookbooks. It's always fund

1040
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: out a project like that to work on.

1041
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 1: It's amazing, man, it sounds good, Ben, as the British

1042
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: call them, biscuits.

1043
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly you're making.

1044
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: So you're basically making a biscuit book now, yes British terms, yes, yes, Yes,

1045
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: that's awesome man. Well I'll look out for that here

1046
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: at Flaky Biscuit. You already I don't know if we've

1047
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 1: prepped you for. But we got to play a little

1048
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: game before we get on to the ending. We don't

1049
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: play a little we call it the Flaky game. Don't trip.

1050
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: It's gonna be nice and simple. And we got benms.

1051
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. We had to I was

1052
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 1: about to say we had a reindeer. I don't know

1053
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 1: why I keep thinking we had reindeer. It's just deer. Yeah,

1054
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 1: I work for I do content for Oonie, and one

1055
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: of the owners is from Finland, and they be talking

1056
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: about eating reindeer with lingen berries or something like that, which.

1057
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 2: Is mostly just a that.

1058
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, rein deer with lingoenberry sounds like a Michelin star dish,

1059
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: whereas like deer with on the trap Louisiana trap. All right,

1060
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: so we're gonna play our game. I'm asking some questions.

1061
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: It's multiple choice, man, ain't going you know what I'm saying,

1062
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: Multiple choice man, talk about nostalgia. Man, that brings me

1063
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: back to like fourth grade. I'm like, oh shoot, I

1064
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: got that test exactly. I got to fill in the

1065
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: little b the above. Should we start printing it out

1066
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: and putting the little and make them feel in a

1067
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: little bit scan trunk trying to have number two pencil? Yeah,

1068
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,280
Speaker 1: Scandra and the sharpener.

1069
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 2: You got to be like that.

1070
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: All right, here we go Number one. I'm soft, I'm simple,

1071
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: and I'm dropped from a spoon. What kind of biscuit?

1072
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 1: Am I? Am I hobnob? Am I a tea biscuit?

1073
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 1: Am I a drop biscuit? Or am I an oreo cookie?

1074
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 2: You're a drop biscuit?

1075
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: Yeah? Sometimes I love opening this document like Bridge prepare

1076
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: and I'm just like a hob nob.

1077
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 2: It's a biscuit. It's a British biscuit. Really, Oh shoot,

1078
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 2: I think it's like an oat biscuit that maybe has

1079
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 2: like one side dipped in chocolate. I know they make

1080
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: a chocolate version.

1081
00:45:54,719 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 1: Food whole about biscuits and cookies, all right, one of

1082
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: the key components to making flaky biscuits. Oh but you

1083
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: don't whatever he didn't like. He doesn't play with one

1084
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: of the key components of making flaky business using blank

1085
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: warm butter, cold butter, sour dough starter, or cold hands.

1086
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: M M looks the trick question cold butter.

1087
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: See. I like what you did there. You know that

1088
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: you could actually use any tempt butter to make a

1089
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: good see. See this is a good learning point for

1090
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: the listeners. And I want you to actually talk about this.

1091
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: So the whole thing of like you got to use

1092
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: super cold butter. You think that's bullshit? You know what

1093
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: it is.

1094
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: I think it is a way to prevent a novice

1095
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: or someone who's starting out from making a mistake. So like,

1096
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 2: if you overdo it and make the butter too cold,

1097
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 2: fine because by the time they kind of over the

1098
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 2: butter will be the right tperatures.

1099
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: Most people are laminating thereby warming up that cold butter.

1100
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 1: So you're basically saying you could use butter that's not

1101
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: that cold, don't touch the dough, and you have a

1102
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 1: perfect biscuits.

1103
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 2: One have cold hands, which some people I have cold heads,

1104
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 2: so I feel like it works for me. But I've

1105
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 2: seen people who just genetically or whatever about their body

1106
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: have hot hands. It just like melts everything. So I

1107
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 2: mean that is a so That's why I'm like, I

1108
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: don't freeze my bowl or freeze my flower, do all

1109
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 2: that stuff. But I'm like, you know what if that's

1110
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: going to help someone else who maybe either has hot

1111
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 2: hands or doesn't have the experience to know when it's ready,

1112
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 2: give them extra insurance. Great, you run in for office

1113
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: on I would never is he heard the.

1114
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: Question, knew the answer I needed, answered it, and then

1115
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: double back and said that shit is bush.

1116
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:33,720
Speaker 2: Trying to you know, be fully rounded.

1117
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 1: Here you had the flaky game, savage. So we switching

1118
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: from the biscus. Now we go into something else in

1119
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: South Africa. That's right, everybody got quiet. In South Africa.

1120
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: Venison comes from which of the following animals? Is it

1121
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: a lion, is it a mer cat? Is it kudu?

1122
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: Or is it a zebra?

1123
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 2: So what they call venison, I don't know what a

1124
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 2: kudoo is. Someone have to say z because that's the

1125
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 2: most like deer like animals.

1126
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: So I should have described a kudu is is basically

1127
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 1: a South African deer.

1128
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 3: I say a spring bok, which I feel like is

1129
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 3: like a deer for them as well as well. An Yeah, exactly,

1130
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 3: because like I was, I was reading about venison. I

1131
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 3: don't know too much about it, but you know, so

1132
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 3: deer and elk right, but in South Africa antelope kudu.

1133
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 3: I think even wild bores considered venice. Oh weird, Yeah,

1134
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 3: something like that.

1135
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: All right, we got one more question for you. Which

1136
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: dish is thought to have influenced the introduction of chicken

1137
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: fried steak into Southern cooking. The reason I bring that

1138
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: up is because this deer was prepared similar to kind

1139
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: of a chicken fried steak, So which dish is thought

1140
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,399
Speaker 1: to have influenced that introduction? And again, you know, when

1141
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 1: it comes to food history, as you know, as I

1142
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: you know, it's easy to like do a bunch of

1143
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: research and then all your research says we think it

1144
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: came from that. You know, you want to be at

1145
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: the tato. Yeah, was it a hamburger? Was it hush puppies?

1146
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: Was it wiener schnitzel or was ito?

1147
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: It seems like it would be schnitzel because the same

1148
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,720
Speaker 2: type of like flat meat bread and fried.

1149
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely right, that's absolutely right. I believe it was German

1150
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: and Austrians in Texas in the nineteenth century.

1151
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 2: I was telling you earlier, like it's very much for me,

1152
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 2: a Texas, Oklahoma thing more than it is the rest

1153
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:26,439
Speaker 2: of the South.

1154
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's one hundred percent right. So I

1155
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: think you I think you get a pass on the

1156
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: floor if you because came kind of came at you

1157
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: a little like what I was.

1158
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:37,959
Speaker 2: Like, what is that zebra?

1159
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 1: I mean, do people eat zebra?

1160
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 2: I'm sure someone has eaten zebra.

1161
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 1: Someone's eating Yes, I'm not eating horse.

1162
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 2: Or I've had horse horse. I've had like raw horse

1163
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 2: in Italy. What you like a tar like tartar situation?

1164
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: Oh, horse tartar?

1165
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 2: How it was? It tasted like beefer this venicon. It

1166
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 2: was like kind of creamy and mile. I feel like

1167
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: it's probably farmed and it was weird, so.

1168
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 1: It's probably just beef. And then they call it horse

1169
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: to make you perk up.

1170
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 2: Probably maybe, but they said it was horse, so I

1171
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 2: was like, all right, I'll try.

1172
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 1: It, oh, ben Man. So you know, again, as we

1173
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: end our episode, we like to talk about ways that

1174
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 1: you you know, help out in the community, organizations or causes,

1175
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: and we're here now to talk about the Transgenderal Law Center,

1176
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: and I would love for you to let our listeners

1177
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: know what exactly that is, and why that's something that's

1178
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: important to you at this stage in your career. Why

1179
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: is this special to you?

1180
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 2: Well, for me, I mean, as you can see, like

1181
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 2: being someone who my only kind of like not privilege

1182
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 2: that I have is that I'm not straight, but like

1183
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 2: I'm a cisgendered white man, I have a lot of

1184
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 2: privilege that comes along with that. And from seeing friends

1185
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: over my life for other people in my life who

1186
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 2: don't have the same privileges as me, see how they

1187
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 2: have suffered or been treated in public like you said before,

1188
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 2: or not gotten jobs, and like knowing and seeing the

1189
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 2: reasons why behind the scenes and everything it's like has

1190
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 2: made me be like, Okay, every success that I have,

1191
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 2: I want to try to help as much people as

1192
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 2: possible and not to be like a savior complex thing,

1193
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 2: but just like what can I do with the resources

1194
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 2: that I have and the privileges that I have. And

1195
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 2: so the Transgender Law Center for me, it's as a

1196
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 2: gay man who again, who has all these privileges. I

1197
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:14,959
Speaker 2: can't remember who said it, but it's the thing where

1198
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 2: until the least of us is strong and on the

1199
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 2: like in a wonderful level where they can be themselves

1200
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 2: as they are, then none of us have those that

1201
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 2: freedom yet. I kind of butcher that saying. But it's

1202
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 2: more like I want to help the people who don't

1203
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 2: have what I have and like who still need help.

1204
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 2: And I mean right now, my god, like the trans

1205
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 2: bands that are going on all across the country, and

1206
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 2: it's really a scary time. I cannot imagine being a

1207
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 2: transwoman or a transman and going through this, and just

1208
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: like the way that you feel from hearing all this

1209
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 2: news and the way people may treat you. So it's

1210
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 2: Southern states too, yeah, because they're the most afraid of it.

1211
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: They're they're in lives. The love hate relationship is as

1212
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 1: clear as day. Yes, when you open up the news,

1213
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: it's not a coincidence that these are the states there's

1214
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: Rick de Santists and all these kind of people that

1215
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: are doing all this kind of stuff. Yeah, it's insane.

1216
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like in seeing the hate first Clo, it's

1217
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 2: like growing up with it and seeing it around me

1218
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 2: and like you've experienced as well. I just want to

1219
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 2: do what I can to kind of help support people

1220
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 2: who who need that help. So for me, the Transgender

1221
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 2: Law Center they fund they help support people in lawsuits

1222
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 2: or to kind of try to fight these bands and

1223
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 2: these bills that have no basis in reality, and they're

1224
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 2: really awful and damaging to people. Because I don't know

1225
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 2: the right path of what to do, but they do.

1226
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:29,800
Speaker 2: So I just want to give them the money and

1227
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 2: bring awareness to them so that they can be able

1228
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 2: to do their work that they need to do with

1229
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 2: all the resources that they need.

1230
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: And is there like a volunteer situation or is it

1231
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: more kind of donation supporting base.

1232
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 2: I've always donated and supported that way, but I'm sure

1233
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:44,719
Speaker 2: there probably is.

1234
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, yeah, so there's Transgender Law Center dot org.

1235
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure, you know, we can find all the information

1236
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:54,399
Speaker 1: that we need. But it is something that is alarmingly intensifying.

1237
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's intensifying at an alarming rate. The attack

1238
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: on women's rights, an attack on as rights. Black trans

1239
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 1: people have a very hard time as well. So I

1240
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: think it's very important, you know, we come out of this.

1241
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: You know, we eating the deer and it's nice, but

1242
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: it is nice to also sit back, you know, wherever

1243
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 1: you are as a listener, if you're driving a work

1244
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: or if you're sitting at home, you eating dinner. Keep

1245
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 1: in your mind the reality of what's happening to a

1246
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: large population of people right now. There's active hate against them.

1247
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: It's terrifying, and they don't have many resources sometimes. So

1248
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: this is a really important one. How are we going

1249
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: to really make this right and help people that are

1250
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: in need? So, you know, Shanna Land dot com, make

1251
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 1: the recipe, but more importantly, let's look into the transgender

1252
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: last Center and really make let's be on the right side.

1253
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 1: Don't mess this up exactly, of course, absolutely, my god, yeah,

1254
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: Ben memes Man, what a treat, What a treat, What

1255
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: a pleasure? Honestly, just you know, human and human. This

1256
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: has been really, really fun.

1257
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 2: It's been a pleasure for me as well. And I

1258
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 2: respect you immensely and I love your cookbooks and all

1259
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 2: the work that you do. So this has been a

1260
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 2: privilege for me.

1261
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Ben, Thank y'all so much for

1262
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 1: listening today. Fam. If y'all want to make the deer

1263
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 1: meat for yourself, find the recipe on Shondaland dot com.

1264
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: And Fam, I want to know how this goes. This

1265
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 1: is a very very delicious recipe. You gotta go find

1266
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 1: you some deer meat, you know, maybe you're using the

1267
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: bow and arrow. Go in to your local game butcher shop, whatever,

1268
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: but go get that deer meat. Tag me Artis and

1269
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: Brian tag Ben mimes as at Benbmemes and post a

1270
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: photo and some videos letting us know how y'all did.

1271
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,720
Speaker 1: One quick piece of advice, make sure you don't skimp

1272
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 1: on that buttermilk soak with the Louisiana hot sauce. It's

1273
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: really gonna bring out that tenderness, cut through the gaminess

1274
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: a little bit if you're not used to that, and yeah,

1275
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 1: it's gonna be absolutely phenomenal. So please please tag us

1276
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: let us know how you did, and don't forget to

1277
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: check out the trend Law Center at transgenderlowcenter dot org.

1278
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: You can find my handle and all the links I

1279
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: mentioned in the show notes for this episode. If you

1280
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: like Flaky Biscuit, rate it, review it five stars, ten stars.

1281
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,280
Speaker 1: All right, this is the best food podcast ever exist.

1282
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: Make sure that you let everyone know that. Flaky Biscuit

1283
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 1: is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alja, Lauren Homan,

1284
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our creative producer is Bridget

1285
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: Kenna and our editor and producer is Nicholas Harder, with

1286
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: music by Crucial. Recipes from Flaky Biscuit can be found

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00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,680
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