WEBVTT - S4E6: Mike Schur and Tammany Hall 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:04.560 It's great to know that even back then, when the 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:07.720 criminal needs to flee somewhere, where do you go? 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:12.159 Florida? Florida, you're so incorrigible, has this kind of like 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:17.040 mischievous pirate thing going that I kind of like, oh, Florida, 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:36.839 you've gone and done it again. Welcome to Snaffu, the 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.040 podcast about history's greatest screw ups. I am your host 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.600 ed helms, and each episode I drag a brilliant guest 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:47.559 through one of these disasters and we ask ourselves, what 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:49.880 the hell does this tell us about us as human 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.000 beings today? My guest is one of my oldest and 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:58.400 dearest comedy pals. He's a writing legend snl The Office, 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.040 co created Parks and rec Brooklyn ninety nine, The Good 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:07.000 Place Rutherford Falls, And by the way, he directed tons 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.600 of all those episodes as well, and oh don't let 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.160 me forget out of all of us who worked on 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:17.120 the Office, he was also the best actor. Yeah, he's 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:20.360 the one who brought the legendary Mose Shrewd into all 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:24.880 of our hearts and nightmares. Of course, he just got 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.040 a very well deserved star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.000 and at this point, I'm pretty sure NASA might be 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:36.560 trying to name a planet after him. Please welcome Mike. Sure, Hello, Mike. 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:38.160 What a wonderful introduction. 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:40.679 Thank you, I mean thank you first of all for 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.600 highlighting my acting, because I think you know that's the 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.680 legacy that I hope to leave this earth with more 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:48.480 than anything else. 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:50.200 I don't think you get enough credit for your acting, 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:52.080 and I don't agree you act enough. I think you 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:53.760 need to be in more stuff. 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.200 I will take any acting job that requires me to 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:01.840 a remain mute and be run along the side of 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:02.720 a car like a dog. 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:08.240 Let's talk about most for a second, because what went 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:12.000 into your choices, the choices that you made as an actor. 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.120 Was that something that like the writer's room really kind 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:16.959 of broke down and was like, it'd be really funny 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.360 if he was just sort of spooky and almost like 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.079 a horror movie character just sort of popping up. Or 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:28.400 was that just your own brain sort of chewing on 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.160 it and then showing up to set and being like, 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.799 I'm gonna get weird. 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:37.680 Certainly, the way that Greg Daniels and the writers wrote, 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.800 and I'm putting that in quotes wrote the character of 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:46.160 Mo's was spooky and weird and just kind of off. 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:50.200 My choice is as an actor, I would describe as 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:55.600 coming from a white hot panic, just pure panic. Just 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:58.120 no one had told me what to do. I didn't 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.680 know what to do. I'm not an actor, and I 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.480 just did anything. I just did anything that I could 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:08.239 think of in the moment, and people kept finding it amusing, 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:11.680 and so I just kept panicking and doing whatever came 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:12.120 to mind. 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:14.400 I love it. I'm glad you enjoyed it. It was 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.520 a gift to all of America. So thank you the world, 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.680 really truly. Sure. Yeah, I'm really eager to dig into 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.800 this snafoo with you today. But before I do, I 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.320 just wanted to tell you something because I was thinking 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:31.240 about you know, we've known each other for twenty ish years, 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:36.360 and we've collaborated very closely in many different ways over 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:41.360 the years, and I've talked about you in publicly in 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.280 interviews a lot over the years, and I realized there's 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.040 something that I kind of say when your name comes 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.119 up in interviews frequently, but I don't know that I've 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.960 ever said it directly to you. And I was like, 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:56.480 I got to tell Mike this. I got to get 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:58.880 on the record with Mike Sure, and let you know 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:07.360 that the character Andy Bernard on the Office never would 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:12.120 have clicked for me without you. You were such an 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:18.080 instrumental part of like helping me find his voice and 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:23.080 shaping who he became, and that whole process, all of 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:27.680 our fun little huddle ups and just hard laughs and 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:31.599 brainstorming sessions about who Andy Bernard could be and why 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.440 Andy was funny or what made him funny, And it's 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:37.760 just like one of my favorite memories of show business. 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:39.839 That's so kind of you to say. I mean, I 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:40.600 will say that. 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.440 You know, you joined the show in season three and 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:48.080 the plot was that, you know, Jim had moved to 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:50.360 a different office, and the office that would happened to 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.279 be chosen was in Stanford, Connecticut. And I grew up 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.479 in West Hartford, Connecticut, which is maybe an hour and 0:04:55.600 --> 0:05:00.200 changed north of Stamford, and I just instantly knew and 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.120 I grew up with Andy a lot of Andy's and 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:05.960 it was a very familiar character to me at the 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:10.240 sort of preppy, like good time Charlie guy who went 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.599 to an Ivy League school and just wanted to be 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:18.960 liked and was just desperate for like you know, was 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:20.840 maybe a little clumsy in the way that he went 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.359 about it, but had a good soul and a good heart. 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.799 And I just remember thinking the combination of that character 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.000 description and you as an actor. I was like, oh, 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.039 I know, I get this, I get this. I know 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.320 exactly who this guy is. And I do have a 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:38.400 lot of as I'm sure you do, specific memories of 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:43.000 like little moments of like figuring out the exact right 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:48.760 little mannerism or sort of prepster little turn of phrase 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.280 or something that he would give. There was the episode 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:55.960 where you all get drunk in the office having to. 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:56.600 Work late at night. 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.839 Oh yeah, and start you start singing an Indigo girls 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.320 Closer to Find, Closer to Fine song, and then Jim 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:07.640 chimes in and you pop up a go tuna, like 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.080 so excited that he also knows all the lyrics to 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.719 Closer to Find. I mean, that's that was my childhood. 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.000 That was exactly my child That was like sitting around 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.360 with my friends and listening to that album in particular. 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:21.960 That's really where I think our friendship forged. Like that's 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.599 when I met you, was coming onto the office set 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.880 and just immediately like you were one of one of 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.760 that handful of people that put me at ease immediately, 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.520 and I'm so glad. Yeah, I mean, it's just yeah, 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.040 it's awesome. It was a good time. 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.480 It was a very fun, fun time, and I think 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.080 all of our lives it felt like we were just 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:44.640 in a very creative world with a bunch of creative 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.520 fun people, and our only job was to figure out 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:49.400 what was the funniest thing that could have happened at 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:50.200 any given moment. 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.240 That's exactly our only job was to make each other 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.240 laugh as hard as possible. Yeah, And I mean, there's 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.920 no better job, no better job. Well, Mike, I am 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:05.560 thrilled your because today's story is basically a political sitcom excellent, 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:10.440 only with a lot more graft, more fistfights, and way 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:15.200 more dark money changing hands under the table. Today we're 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:20.679 talking about Tammany Hall and the legendary Boss Tweed. Fantastic. Yes, 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:24.760 how familiar are you with this story? A fairly familiar, 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:25.520 I would say. 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:29.320 In the broad strokes, The Powerbroker by Robert Moses is 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.800 one of my favorite books ever written, and Tammany Hall 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:39.640 is a human part of Robert Morris's origin story. And 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.520 you know, Robert Moses's story is legendary and have covers 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:48.080 many chunks. But he his like understanding of politics was 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:49.440 forged in Tammany Hall. 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.360 All right, well, let's start with some baseline info here, 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.320 because I think a lot of people have heard of 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.960 Tammany Hall, but might be one like, what is it exactly? 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.560 Was it a building? Was it some sort of club 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.920 or was it a symbol of something opaque and powerful, 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.440 maybe even a little bit sinister. Well the answer is 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.720 actually yes, all of the above. Tammany Hall was indeed 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.800 a series of buildings in New York City, the most 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.880 famous of which stood at fourteenth Street in Park Avenue South. 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:25.160 But it is in fact so much more than that. 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:28.000 When historians say Tammany Hall, they're actually referring to the 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:32.800 democratic political machine that controlled New York City politics for 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:36.360 well over a century from the early nineteenth century to 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:41.480 the mid twentieth century. Tammany Hall was part fraternity, part mafia, 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:46.120 part city council. Think the Sopranos only the front business. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.120 Instead of being a strip club, it was city. 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:54.040 Hall, right, Yeah, it was the machine that ran New York. 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.440 And a political machine, by the way, was actually the 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.800 term for this type of It was not just a 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.319 kind of random metaphor that I'm using, it was actually 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:09.400 what these operations were called for over one hundred years. 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:13.880 Tammany Hall decided who got jobs, who got contracts, and 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:20.760 often who won elections in the biggest city in America. So, Mike, sure, 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.360 how did it all begin? Well, let's rewind a little bit, 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:29.880 shall we back all the way to seventeen eighty nine, 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:34.440 the same year George Washington became president. Coincidentally, back then, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.040 there were a number of prominent fraternal organizations like the 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:43.280 Freemasons or the Society of the Cincinnati, and these groups 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.199 tended to be a bit crusty and aristocratic, little snooty 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.920 like country clubs. The Cincinnatians were even accused of trying 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.720 to set up a kind of American hereditary nobility, which 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.880 is pretty rich considering we had just fought a massive 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.480 war with England to get rid of all that crap. 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.640 The most the most American thing, right is you you're like, 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.280 no more sovereigns, And then as soon as the king 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:08.880 has gone, you're like, what if we had a king? 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:15.960 Nobility's nice good points. So the modern version of these clubs, 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:20.119 I think is like we see around as like Masonic temples, 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:25.120 or or the Shriners. The Odd Fellows, which actually started 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:30.880 in England around this time or even earlier, was also 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.160 happening at this time, and I think that largely, or 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.280 the Rotary club Lions. 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:39.959 Well, it's not just those, it's also you know, when 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:44.240 you're talking about like societies that aim to pull levers 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.160 of power, you're also talking about like in the modern day, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:51.160 there's Bohemian Grove and there's the Davos Conference, and there's 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.240 as long as there have been societies, there have been 0:10:54.360 --> 0:11:00.160 people seeking to form organizations that secretly control things. And 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:02.760 so you know that some of those clubs are more 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:07.480 civic minded, some of them are more you know, charity minded. 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:09.760 But you're social. 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.560 Yeah, but there's it is always the case that there 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.200 have been people in every society, even ones that purport 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.040 to be purely democratic or republic or whatever you want 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.760 to call them, that are like, wait, we're rich, and 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.360 maybe if we quietly meet in a room somewhere, we 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.480 can divvy up the society and capital in a way 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.559 that will benefit us and not other people. So it's 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:33.040 a it's as tale as old as time. 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.679 Yah. Indeed, what's funny is that is that they're just 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:41.359 as dumb as everybody else, but all kinds of conspiracy 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.720 theories get ascribed to them. And I just think if 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:46.600 you could probably get into those rooms, you'd be like, 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:50.520 what the oh, these idiots, this is the group of people. 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:53.199 It's like, yeah. 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.760 My favorite thing in the world is when a billionaire 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.320 does something stupid and the reaction is like, well that 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.080 he's probably not doing that. He's a billionaire, and no, 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.920 I promise he's just as dumb as everybody else. 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.200 Of course, all right, so enter into this landscape of 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:13.400 sort of crusty aristocratic societies. The Society of Saint Tammany 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:17.520 founded in New York basically as a deliberate fuck you 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.520 to all of these aristocratic clubs. So this was to 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:25.960 be a patriotic club for the common man. It was 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:31.600 named after taminind A Lenna Lenape chief, mythologized as a 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:38.920 patron saint of America and liberty. Of course, the Society 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:44.360 of Saint Tammany also massively appropriated Native American attire, rituals 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:51.160 and nannings and you're kidding, yes, yeah. They not not 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.240 a real progressive, woke crew at this time, but they 0:12:55.240 --> 0:13:00.000 threw large events, parties and parades. They were rowdy, populous, 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.959 and kind of a bit campy or silly. They had 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:07.920 a big sense of humor and uh and also probably 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:13.640 quite a bit cringe as well. Yeah, I would imagine. Yeah, yeah, so, uh, 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:18.240 guess who shows up real early in this in this zone. 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:23.040 Who's Aaron Burr? Yeah? Yeah, that guy revolutionary war Vet, 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.600 the third vice president and yes, the guy who murdered 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:32.960 lin Manuel Miranda. He's a national treasure in Miranda. 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:36.120 Does someone fact check these podcasts or should we do 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:36.760 it in real time? 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.640 Because I I I asked the Internet and they said 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:43.320 that there's a video of it. 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:47.120 I swear to you you got the AI overviewed it. 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:54.000 Yeah, that Aaron. This is all AI generated, including me. 0:13:54.320 --> 0:14:00.520 I am fast asleep in my house right now. Okay, 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:05.280 so no, he didn't murder Miranda. He murdered Alexander Hamilton. 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:10.600 And Burr is the one who really saw early on 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:16.240 the political potential of Tammany Hall. He saw it not 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.640 as just a bunch of rowdy fund dudes, but as 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.280 a ready made voter base. And he's the one who 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:27.400 really steered Tammany Hall straight into politics. Okay, So now 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.920 jump ahead to the early eighteen hundreds, New York is 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:36.720 being flooded with immigrants, especially from Ireland. Between eighteen twenty 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:40.080 and eighteen sixty, more than one point six million Irish 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.960 arrived in America, and most of them funneled right through 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.640 New York City, of course, the famous Ellis Island, right 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.040 by the Statue of Liberty there in New York Harbor. 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:56.760 Tammany as an organization not happy about this. They were 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:01.680 deeply xenophobic, as were all lot of Americans at that time, 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:06.920 and they really resisted this massive influx of immigrants and 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:14.680 sometimes violently, not a real welcoming, not rolling out the 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:18.080 red carpet, not exactly. But this will change, Mike, sure, 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:22.800 this will This will completely flip because somebody at Tammany 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:30.760 Hall did the math, all right. Irish immigrants meant Irish votes, 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:35.320 and votes meant power, and so Tammany did a one 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.920 to eighty and they did, in fact roll out the 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.600 welcome matt and by welcome Matt, I mean jobs, food, 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:48.040 social services, and even protection from the angry Nativists movement. 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.960 In return, the Irish delivered loyalty at the ballot box. 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.240 By the mid eighteen hundreds, they weren't just part of 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:59.200 Tammany's political machine, they were basically the engine inside of it. 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.600 Real talk, Mike, sure, do you see this as smart 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:08.400 politics or just ugly exploitation or just maybe exactly the 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:12.120 kind of two faced move that defines American politics in 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:12.800 every era. 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.680 It's a familiar story. They were smart enough to understand 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.440 the way the wind was blowing. It's also a classic 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.280 American thing to have a bunch of immigrants to come 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:27.040 over to this country and then within a generation be 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:28.640 like I don't like immigrants. 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.280 It's like what what what? Yeah, you're doing? 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.200 But they were, and this was the source of all 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.600 of their power was they were smart enough to understand 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:40.920 that there were waves crashing on the shores of America 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:45.000 and they could either try to fight them or surf them, 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:48.040 and they decided to serf them. And so that is 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.360 the method, by the way, thank you very much. That's 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:55.840 the key to all of these movements is I understand them, 0:16:56.080 --> 0:17:00.400 and whether they survive or disappear is do you get 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.360 on board with what is inevitable or do you try 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.080 to fight it? And getting on board is a much 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.680 smarter move politically. You mentioned the Sopranos there's the scenes 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.399 in the Sopranos where it's Thanksgiving and the guys in 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.879 the in Tony's carewer like handing out turkeys on Thanksgiving. 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.440 Yeah, by the way, Tammany Hall, same thing invented it 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.000 only handing out turkeys. 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.800 Yeah, like that one, like having a giant free turkey 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.120 Thanksgiving meal is like, that's a year's worth of votes 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.480 that they just bought for for you know at the time, 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:35.560 what like seventy five cents worth of foul Yeah, fabulous insight. 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.680 Mike, Sure, I love the way your brain works. We're 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:40.719 going to cut all that out though, yeah, yeah, Oh, 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:42.800 I assume you're cutting all of this out right. This 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:52.960 isn't going to air. So we have now set the 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:57.440 stage and here comes our headliner. Are you ready, ladies 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:01.120 and gentlemen, please welcome the man who, well, not well, 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.560 he's not going to join us, he's dead. But welcome 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:08.399 to our narrative, the man who would come to embody 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:15.360 Tammany Hall's power, greed and epic corruption, William Boss Tweed. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.040 Have you heard of Boss? You know you're familiar with 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.080 Boss Tweed? What is his name? What is his name? 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:22.159 Conjure for you. 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:27.920 It conjures an enormous, barrel chested gentleman who strolls through 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.560 the streets of New York and everyone knows his name 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.280 and he is legendary, and people whisper and point and 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:36.320 wave and he waves back. 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.600 And gosh, you're just it sounds like an episode of Cheers. 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:40.080 It basically is. 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.000 He's basically norm but on the streets of nineteenth century 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:43.640 New York. 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:47.760 And also not afraid to just hit you with an axe. Yeah. Yeah, 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:52.600 he's a very complicated guy because he was enormous both 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:58.119 in stature and in girth, and by all accounts are 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:02.560 very gregarious and jovial guy. Yeah, really like the kind 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:07.119 of like you know, backslap in good time, Charlie, but 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.520 also like capable of like horrific violence. 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:16.199 Yeah, combination of people like breaking into huge smiles and 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.960 waving and him waving back, and also moms grabbing their 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:22.600 kids and hustling them inside when he walked down the street. 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:26.480 That's what I picture, all right, So let's get into 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:31.120 old old Boss tweet here. Born in eighteen twenty three 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.639 on Manhattan's Lower East Side, son of a chair maker, 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:39.320 he actually apprenticed at the family trade, but he had 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:43.120 much more lofty ambitions. His first step in chasing those 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.840 ambitions was the rough and tumble, politically connected world of 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:51.920 New York's volunteer fire companies. Isn't that kind of interesting? 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.920 Kind of interesting? Yeah, because back then, fire companies weren't 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:59.240 the noble, Dalmatian loving institutions that we think of today. 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:04.359 They were basically street gangs with hoses they or buckets like. 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.680 Crews would literally fistfight over who got to put out 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:11.119 a blaze because whoever controlled the fire fires were so common, 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:15.280 and whoever could control the fires had significant control over 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:17.840 the neighborhood and then of course all of the political 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:22.320 clout that came with that. So think think of politics 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.680 by way of pro wrestling, but with a lot more 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.800 water damage. Yeah. Sure, thank god we don't have to 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:34.240 rely on for profit emergency services anymore for now. Yeah. 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:40.800 I'm not sure where this airing exactly. So as we were, 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:44.800 as we mentioned before, Tweed was a very gregarious guy. 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:49.399 He first joined Engine Company Number twelve before helping found 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:53.439 Americas Fire Company Number six in eighteen forty eight. This 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.800 company was nicknamed the Big Six and their symbol a 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:03.080 flashy tiger. Tweed rose to foreman of this fire company, 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:06.719 a position he parlayed into membership in the Society of 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:12.280 Saint Tammany. Again if there these fire companies were very 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.200 politically connected because they had it was just all power 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:19.159 broker between these sort of rough and tumble figures and 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:23.159 politicians and the leaders of the various wards throughout New 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:27.600 York City. So from there he bounced around a few 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:32.040 different roles. He was an Alderman congressman for a spell, 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.200 found that very boring. Came right back to New York 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:38.600 City from Albany. He was even a lawyer for a minute, 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:43.040 but he finally found real power on the New York 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:49.280 County Board of Supervisors as deputy street Commissioner. What a 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:53.920 street commissioner? That just sounds mobbed up? It really does 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:55.640 the street commission. 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:00.120 Well, Dodger's an image of like, this is the guy 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.840 who knows all the other people in the neighborhood, right, 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:06.840 Like it's a guy who's like, we need sixty people 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.320 to do some task, and he's like, I got it, 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.359 and he just goes out and knocks on all the 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.000 doors and gets rounds up the crew and yeah, yeah, 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.280 it's a very mob very mobbed up sounding job. 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:24.920 Well as Deputy Street commission. Old Tweed controlled city contracts, 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:29.240 jobs and construction. And this is where tweeds genius for 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:34.320 corruption truly flourished. If you wanted your cousin on the 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.000 city payroll, you slipped Tweed some cash. If you wanted 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:39.840 your construction company to build a new school, you cut 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:43.280 Tweet a slice, or maybe you would just get the 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:45.600 contract and never even have to build the fucking school. 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:52.679 It's like they were just cranking out all the cash. 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.320 So you've been in New York for twenty years and 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:59.880 three of your cousins come over from from Dundalk, Ireland, 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:02.840 and they don't know what to do. And you go 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:05.919 to see Boss Tweed or one of his minions, and 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:10.080 you say, we need construction jobs, and they go, here's 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:13.480 three construction jobs. You give us twenty percent of your 0:23:13.520 --> 0:23:16.920 salary or whatever, and you take that deal because the. 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:19.399 Alternative is And by the way, you vote for us, 0:23:19.480 --> 0:23:21.080 and you vote for you show up and you vote 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:22.679 for us, and if we tell you to, you go 0:23:22.720 --> 0:23:25.720 to the ballot box five, six, seven, eight, ten times. Yeah, 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:27.800 you change your name ten times. It was common like 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:31.680 they like they were just stack in ballots. I want 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:36.360 to be clear. So this wasn't something that Tweed brought 0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:39.679 to New York City government. This was the culture of 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:42.600 New York City government at the time. It was just 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:48.199 a profoundly corrupt apparatus across the board. The group of 0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:51.679 twenty aldermen and then there were twenty assistant aldermen who 0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:54.600 were who were a sort of like governing body in 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:58.000 the city, and they were known as the forty thieves 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:00.919 like that. That's how people were barnd to them. And 0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:03.679 this was well before Tweed even entered the picture. So 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:07.159 he just kind of came in and was like, oh, 0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:11.760 I get how this works, and just kicked it up 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:16.720 a huge notch. He basically industrialized political corruption in New 0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:20.479 York City. And oh, don't forget New York City. You know, 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:24.439 it's nothing like it was today in scale, but it 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:29.879 was massive for the time, and the economy of New 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:34.800 York City was on par with entire other countries nations. Yeah. Yeah. 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:39.760 When we were researching parks and rec we learned about 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:43.320 a group of people in a city in California that 0:24:43.359 --> 0:24:48.680 shall remain nameless, that they incorporated the town and then 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:50.480 this group of people who'd been living there for a 0:24:50.520 --> 0:24:54.480 long time. Basically were like, we want to control this forever. 0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:57.000 And so the way they formed the government was it 0:24:57.040 --> 0:24:59.119 was like, you know, there was a planning committee and 0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:03.240 a sewer committee and a construction committee and everything, and 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:05.119