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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know from house stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,

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Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and uh no one, no

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Speaker 1: one else is in here with us yet again, because

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Speaker 1: we've graduated to the point where we don't even need

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Speaker 1: a producer. We need somebody who presses record and leaves.

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Speaker 1: That's it. Because we're pros. Yep, not p R O

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Speaker 1: s E. P r O S that's right, we're not.

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Speaker 1: But we are prosaic, yes, but definitely not p r

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Speaker 1: O apostrophe es. Very few things drive me crazier than that,

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Speaker 1: And I know it's stupid and pedantic, but to see,

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Speaker 1: like somebody take out a huge billboard or something and

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Speaker 1: so a word has an apostrophe. That shouldn't pros. People say, like,

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Speaker 1: leave it to the pros and they'll put an apostrophe. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's that graphic designer should be, you know,

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Speaker 1: doctor half a day's paying maybe bucks. Something we want

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Speaker 1: to issue and you probably would get this from the

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Speaker 1: title of the episode, but we want to issue a

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Speaker 1: meal warning. Oh good thinking, because we've gotten complaints in

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Speaker 1: the past when people are eating and get sick listening

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Speaker 1: to some of these. Yeah, this would do it possibly

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Speaker 1: for some people. I was fine. I ate a running

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Speaker 1: yolk egg sandwich while I was right. It didn't bother me,

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Speaker 1: but I could totally see how it could be any people.

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Speaker 1: I also want to say, um, if it comes up,

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Speaker 1: do not go Google image search wound sloth. Well, I

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Speaker 1: just put do not Google image search maggot therapy at all. Okay, sure,

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Speaker 1: but definitely stay away from wound sloth s l o

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Speaker 1: U g h. Yeah wow, and definitely don't look at

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Speaker 1: wound slough while you're eating. Yeah. Okay, so that's all

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Speaker 1: out of the way. Yes, I predict we're going to

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Speaker 1: be kind of excited about this one. I'm feeling a

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Speaker 1: little pumped about it. Well, we did cover in uh

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Speaker 1: tin Bizarre medical Treatments uh leech therapy, which is still

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Speaker 1: being used, and I'm surprised this wasn't in that article.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, I am as well. But this gets

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Speaker 1: its own special deal, and well it should actually because

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty amazing thing. Um, we're talking about maggot therapy.

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Speaker 1: Yes it is so, or they really or is that

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Speaker 1: a name? Well, it's a band name. To end all

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Speaker 1: band names. There probably wasn a band name that. So

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Speaker 1: there's it's called maggot therapy, maggot dibridement therapy, larval therapy,

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Speaker 1: or bio. There's another one called I think like bio

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Speaker 1: biodebridements or therapeutic wound miasses. Yeah, and that's basically all

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Speaker 1: the all of them, no matter what you call it,

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Speaker 1: no matter how you church it up. It is the

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Speaker 1: application of live maggots fly larva to purposefully to an

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Speaker 1: open wound in order to help that wound heal faster. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and better and cleaner and all that good stuff everything.

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Speaker 1: Daft Punk said, Oh yeah, you know, should we talk

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Speaker 1: about some of the history of this stuff. Let's just

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Speaker 1: say that one more time. Okay. Maggot de bridemant therapy

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Speaker 1: is taking live maggots and putting them in an open

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Speaker 1: wound on a human being or an animal. It's used

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Speaker 1: in veterinary medicine as well, wrapping it up tight and

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Speaker 1: letting them just eat the dead and dying flesh of

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Speaker 1: that wound while you get your foot tickled. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: would be so skiped out by this. I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to make sure that everybody knows exactly what we're talking about, right,

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Speaker 1: and goodbye to everyone everyone who fainted. Okay, yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the history, chuck, because this is um, this

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Speaker 1: is in use today, but it's actually pretty old. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it's some say it's an even an

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Speaker 1: ancient tradition like in place is like Burma in Central

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Speaker 1: America with the Mayans. Um, they were smart enough to

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Speaker 1: know that maggots do a pretty good job of consuming

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Speaker 1: human flesh. Uh, And it can be used for good

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Speaker 1: in that regard. Yeah, at some point, I guess healer's noticed,

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Speaker 1: like y, people who had maggots in their wounds tended

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Speaker 1: to have wounds heal Uh. And actually, as far as

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Speaker 1: the Western literature goes, that's exactly how UM maggot therapy

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Speaker 1: first finds its way, first crawls into the medical literature

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Speaker 1: is from a French surgeon named Ambro Ambras Pore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but how would you say, I don't know, I don't

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Speaker 1: speak French Ambras even though it doesn't have the little

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Speaker 1: what is that an accent? Yeah, it's just the e.

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Speaker 1: But he was a sixteenth century surgeon and he noticed that, um,

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Speaker 1: that people didn't necessarily fall over dead if there was

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Speaker 1: a maggot in the wound. Yeah. He was a first

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Speaker 1: doctor to actually come out and say, you know, I

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Speaker 1: had this patient got a big skull wound, and unbeknownst

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Speaker 1: to me, there were maggots in there. I saw them

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Speaker 1: crawling out one day and even though they had a

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Speaker 1: lot of bone. Um, the guy was great. He healed

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Speaker 1: like he lost a hand sized slab of skull and

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Speaker 1: he lived. And I think it might have something to

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Speaker 1: do with the maggots. Yeah, and he presumably wore a

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Speaker 1: helmet for the rest of his life. Probably he had

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Speaker 1: a probably big soft skull there. Uh. That was followed

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Speaker 1: in uh with the mid seventeen hundreds by another Frenchy baron,

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Speaker 1: Dominique Jean Laoie Uh, and he said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: on this Egyptian expedition, Uh, these blue fly maggots are

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Speaker 1: actually doing the right thing and helping us out. So

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Speaker 1: it's almost like these doctors just noticed this exactly and

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Speaker 1: it meant enough to him that they were like, I

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Speaker 1: should probably write this down. This is gonna be my

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Speaker 1: contribution to medical history of the history of science right there. Um.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't until the uh, I guess the Civil

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Speaker 1: War that a doctor actually said I'm going to purposefully

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Speaker 1: put maggots in a wound and see what happens. And

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Speaker 1: that doctor was John Forney Zacharias. He probably didn't tell

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Speaker 1: his patient that. I think probably that he was just like,

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Speaker 1: just bite down on this brooms and look the other way.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to lose your foot or do you

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Speaker 1: want to try something really weird? Well, supposedly in studies

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Speaker 1: of people, modern patients who are offered this therapy say

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Speaker 1: yes to it. Well, yeah, because I think that's what

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Speaker 1: it comes down to you. It's a last resort. Basically,

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Speaker 1: it's not the first thing they offer, not necessarily. Um So, anyway,

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Speaker 1: doctor Zacharias um Hey had a great quote. He said,

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Speaker 1: during my service in the hospital at Danville, Virginia, I

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Speaker 1: first used maggots to remove the decayed tissue in Hospital

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Speaker 1: Gang Green, and with my eminent satisfaction, in a single day,

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Speaker 1: they would clean a wound much better than any agents

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Speaker 1: we had at our command. I used them afterwards at

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Speaker 1: various places. I am sure I saved many lives by

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Speaker 1: their use escape septicemia and had rapid recoveries period. End quote.

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Speaker 1: Pretty great. Yeah, So he was a huge believer and

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Speaker 1: not just a passive observer like people who came before him.

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Speaker 1: He said, yeah, I put maggots on wounds and it helps,

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Speaker 1: that's right. And uh, people experimented with it for a

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Speaker 1: little while until um, a guy named Louis Pasteur and

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Speaker 1: Robert Coke came along, Uh, microbiologists and germ theorists that

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Speaker 1: basically said, you know this, this is disgusting. We might

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Speaker 1: want to not do this. Yeah, because they're dirty. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's true maggots naturally in the wild carry lots

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Speaker 1: of pathogens with them that um can infect us in

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Speaker 1: other ways, can make a wound worse, can actually kill you.

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Speaker 1: So this the idea behind germ theory as far as

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Speaker 1: maggots goes right. But um, it seems like there's this

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Speaker 1: long history of necessity and discussed with maggot therapy that

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Speaker 1: kind of wayne ebbs and flows right, and necessity rears

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Speaker 1: its head on the battlefield. It did in the Civil War,

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Speaker 1: and it also did in World War One. There was

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Speaker 1: a surgeon um named William S. Baer, and he was

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Speaker 1: working on the front lines in France, and he used

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Speaker 1: maggots on stomach wounds and open fractures and he found,

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Speaker 1: to his great satisfaction, just like Dr Zacharias and the

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Speaker 1: other before him, that this stuff actually worked. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: he actually said, you know what, I have some further advancements. UM,

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Speaker 1: maybe we should put a bandage over this thing so

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Speaker 1: it doesn't completely discussed the patient. Uh, and let me

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Speaker 1: UM put bandages around the wound so they don't start

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Speaker 1: creeping onto the healthy flesh and doing damage or just

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Speaker 1: itching you or creeping you out further right exactly, UM,

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Speaker 1: which are still in use today. These techniques. He also

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Speaker 1: pioneered another huge technique, and this is after the war

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Speaker 1: was over. Ten years later, when he was back at

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Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins UM. He he pioneered another really important technique,

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Speaker 1: and that was using sterilized UM maggots. Like germ free maggots,

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Speaker 1: they were raised as eggs in a sterile environment, and

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Speaker 1: so when they were introduced to the wounds, they weren't

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Speaker 1: carrying these pathogens anymore. And he found this is the jackpot.

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Speaker 1: Now you can use maggots from now on. That's right.

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Speaker 1: And there was a big boom uh in the thirties

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Speaker 1: up until the mid nineteen forties. Uh, three hundred more

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Speaker 1: than three hundred American hospitals. Uh, we're using maggot treatment,

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Speaker 1: maggot therapy. And then in uh, antiseptics came along, or

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Speaker 1: you know, new antiseptics, and they said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: maybe there was another lull in the use of maggot.

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Speaker 1: They right, necessity didn't didn't spur this stuff, and it

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Speaker 1: was they went back to just being gross again. There

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Speaker 1: was a guy UM who by the eighties wrote what

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Speaker 1: what this one article calls the majority opinion. Fortunately, maggot

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Speaker 1: therapy is now relegated to a historical backwater of interest,

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Speaker 1: more for its bizarre nature than its effect on the

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Speaker 1: course of medical science. A therapy the demise of which

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Speaker 1: no one is likely to mourn. That's just that kind

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Speaker 1: of Western medicine hubris, where like we can do anything

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Speaker 1: except everything, you know, that's right. And in the nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: UM a dude named Ronald Sherman and Edward Pector basically

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Speaker 1: champion the technique again and kind of brought it into

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Speaker 1: the modern age. Yeah, and still very much is UM.

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Speaker 1: Ronald Sherman is one of the first, i think, to

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Speaker 1: receive a license to produce sterile maggots for use as

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Speaker 1: medical devices. Um. And there's another guy over in uh

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Speaker 1: the UK named John Church um who uh who brought

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Speaker 1: the maggot their maggot therapy into the four So it

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Speaker 1: was an ancient thing, it was. It's found to be disgusting,

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Speaker 1: it's found to be useful, it's found to be disgusting.

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Speaker 1: It's it's found ways you can make it better. It's

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Speaker 1: found to be disgusting. And then now that this idea

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Speaker 1: of complimentary medicine is is kind of regaining some traction again. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think it's here to stay, though I think so too,

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Speaker 1: unless someone comes along in ten years is you know

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Speaker 1: what it's disgusting, well, you know the chuck. I mean

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Speaker 1: probably what we're seeing is the next thing that will

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Speaker 1: happen is there will be some huge leap, some huge

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Speaker 1: development in science, and science will get its tackles up

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Speaker 1: again and great about itself and we don't need any

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Speaker 1: of that stupid nastiness. And then we'll find that Nope,

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Speaker 1: you still can't beat good old fashioned maggots. And that's

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Speaker 1: that should be the title of this thing. You can't

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Speaker 1: beat good old fashioned maggots for healing a wound that

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Speaker 1: won't heal otherwise it's a great title. So you want

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Speaker 1: to take a break. Uh, yeah, let's do it, and

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Speaker 1: we'll go um treat our own wounds and we'll be

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Speaker 1: back shortly. All right, Let's talk about diabetes for a second. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: more than twenty three million Americans are affected with diabetes.

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Speaker 1: And one thing that can happen, uh is nerve damage,

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Speaker 1: especially in the extremities the hands and feet and the

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Speaker 1: toes and the and the fingers. Your blood vessels become

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Speaker 1: hard and they don't circulate the blood like you need.

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Speaker 1: That can lead to open sores called ulcers, which can

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Speaker 1: become infections, which can spread to nearby bone, which can

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Speaker 1: lead to amputation. Yeah. It all this is just from

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Speaker 1: a long exposure to high levels of blood sugar and

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Speaker 1: they're not sure how it can do it. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: the blood, the blood vessels not helping pump blood very well,

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Speaker 1: get nutrients, or your tissue can die. But also that neuropathy,

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Speaker 1: that dead and nerve cell um that actually makes it

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Speaker 1: hard for you to notice. If you have like a

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Speaker 1: really bad ulcer on the bottom of your foot, you

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Speaker 1: can't feel it and so you don't get treatment early enough,

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Speaker 1: so it can get an infection can get out of

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Speaker 1: hand and when it spreads to bone that's called osteomyelitis.

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Speaker 1: That's problematic because that very quickly will lead to an amputation.

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Speaker 1: And there's some pretty shocking stats here from this article

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Speaker 1: that Tom wrote. Um about this sheave jam Yeah nice,

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Speaker 1: it's yeah for sure, Um. But about amputations from diabetes. Yes,

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Speaker 1: seventy thousand to foot and leg amputations each year in

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Speaker 1: the United States alone, and uh they say around the world,

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Speaker 1: they estimate every thirty seconds someone gets a limb cut

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Speaker 1: off because of diabetes. Yeah, that's sad, Yeah, it really is,

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Speaker 1: and we should We will do one on diabetes for sure.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm surprised we haven't already. Um. But the

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Speaker 1: so amputation is used to halt the progress of an infection,

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Speaker 1: and that's usually the last resort. But what's what Tom

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Speaker 1: points out is that there are plenty of doctors around

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Speaker 1: the world I imagine that aren't aware that you can

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Speaker 1: use maggots or have never done it before. And if

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Speaker 1: you are facing an amputation from say like a wound,

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Speaker 1: a persistent wound, a chronic wound that won't heal, um,

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Speaker 1: you may want to suggest maggots to your doctor. You

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Speaker 1: may have to actually take this the the initiative on

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Speaker 1: this one, and say, let's make sure the amputation is

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Speaker 1: the absolute last resort. Let's see if we can put

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Speaker 1: one more resort in there before then. I'm willing to

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Speaker 1: let maggots crawl inside my body in this wound is

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Speaker 1: open wound if you're willing to apply them. And they like.

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Speaker 1: Doctors love hearing when patients suggest treatments. Oh, they do.

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Speaker 1: They love feedback. They love to be guided in their

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Speaker 1: diagnoses and prognoses. Yeah, I love it. That's a tough jam.

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Speaker 1: I get it. Doctors are frustrated a lot of these

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Speaker 1: days with self diagnosis and online doctoring. Sure, but you

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Speaker 1: should also be your own advocate. We can't be in

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Speaker 1: that before. Yeah, it's your leg. Yeah, if you want

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Speaker 1: to keep your leg, you tell that doctor to go

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Speaker 1: get some maggots. You're going to replace them with the

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Speaker 1: doctor who will. How can I can find a guy? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can get a guy by noon that'll put maggots

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Speaker 1: on that wound. And actually there's a there's a group.

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Speaker 1: I think Ronald Sherman, the guy we mentioned earlier, who's

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Speaker 1: like the the US champion of maggot therapy. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: there's this group called the b Turf Foundation b t

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Speaker 1: e Er Foundation, UM, and they have all sorts of

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Speaker 1: resources for people in that very situation, like how to

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Speaker 1: talk to your doctor, UM that if your insurance won't

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Speaker 1: cover it, let them know, because they say insurance actually

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Speaker 1: most insurance covers maggot therapy, but most insurance claims people

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Speaker 1: are not aware of that, so you may get denied

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Speaker 1: at first. And here's how to talk to your insurance

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Speaker 1: company that it really is. That beats going to your

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Speaker 1: doctor and saying, well, you know what Josh and Chuck said.

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Speaker 1: He you're not gonna like hearing this, right because you think, doctor,

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Speaker 1: please take a sleep and be put maggots on my feet, right.

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Speaker 1: And and that's the other thing too. I mean, like

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't be suggesting this and the betur Foundation probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be such advocates for it if it didn't work

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Speaker 1: so amazingly well. It study after study, and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about the details of it, but there's so many studies

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Speaker 1: out there. UM. Again. Sherman, who agreed, is an advocate,

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Speaker 1: but in a pure reviewed journal published a survey of

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Speaker 1: studies that he could find on maggot therapy and it's

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Speaker 1: very clear that it works really, really well, and not

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Speaker 1: only necessarily um as a means of last resort, but

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Speaker 1: even just compare to the standard of care using like

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Speaker 1: hydrogell or other things that you might use to treat

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Speaker 1: a chronic wound. Maggots destroy it. They leave it in

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Speaker 1: the dust. Yeah. And if it doesn't work, it's not

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Speaker 1: gonna hurt anything, I can tell. Yeah, it just puts

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Speaker 1: off how much longer before they amputate your foot? Pretty much?

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Speaker 1: Uh So what will happen is they will Well, let's

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Speaker 1: get into this a little bit. Um. There are four

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Speaker 1: different and you where did you find this? Was this

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Speaker 1: a a research paper? Yeah? This is by Ronald Sherman

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Speaker 1: Mechanisms of Maggot Induced Wound Healing colin What do we

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Speaker 1: know and where do we go from here? It was

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Speaker 1: in the journal Evidence Based, Complimentary and Alternative Medicine in

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Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen, that's right. And he describes for different

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Speaker 1: phases of basically healing a wound um homeostasis, inflammation, ploriferate. Man,

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Speaker 1: I'm so bad at that one. Oh yeah, keep it coming,

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Speaker 1: proliferation and uh, remodeling and maturing, and what happens is

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Speaker 1: the cells get to work, they recruit other cells, they

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Speaker 1: alter their activities and basically say, let's get to work

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Speaker 1: cleaning and uh, well on all four of these stages

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Speaker 1: to help heal the wound. Yeah, and at any any

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Speaker 1: one of those stages, um, the the next process can

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Speaker 1: stall out. Um. Normally it stalls out at inflammation because

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Speaker 1: the infection gets out of hand in the body can't

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Speaker 1: fight off the infection faster than it's laying the extra

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Speaker 1: cellular matrix for the new cells to be rebuilt, the

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Speaker 1: new tissue to recro um. And that's that's it's a

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Speaker 1: common thing that leads to chronic wounds that just won't heal.

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Speaker 1: And that's where maggots are really really useful to basically

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Speaker 1: interrupt that stall and get the car moving again in

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Speaker 1: the right direction. It's exactly right, they kick started. Uh

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Speaker 1: So de Bradmant is removing dead tissue. And that is

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Speaker 1: really where maggots excel um. They said, Uh, in here,

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Speaker 1: each maggot can chew, well, they don't exactly chew, which

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Speaker 1: we'll get to. Uh. They remove twenty five milligrams of

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Speaker 1: necrotic material dead flesh, uh in just twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty good. Yeah, and uh, there's there's actually three

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Speaker 1: ways that maggots clean a wound. But the bridemant, which

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Speaker 1: is getting in there and like just cleaning out, removing

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Speaker 1: physically removing um that dead material. That's like the key

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Speaker 1: that seems to be the key. And then there's also

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Speaker 1: um anti microbial activity like actually killing the bacteria that's

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Speaker 1: killing the flesh, leaving it cleaner than when they came in, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is amazing. And then even more astounding, stimulating new growth,

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Speaker 1: like the act the presence of maggots in your wound

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Speaker 1: stimulates new tissue growth around your skin. It's the most

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Speaker 1: they're just like wonder creatures who knew. One of the

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Speaker 1: ways that they remove this dead tissue is just by

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Speaker 1: the nature of what their body is like. And they

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Speaker 1: have these little prickly spines all over their body that

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Speaker 1: act as a surgeon's rasp rasper or file what It

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Speaker 1: basically just the fact that they're moving around on the

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Speaker 1: wound is going to like file the stuff down and

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Speaker 1: scrape the wound, which helps loosens it up. It's like

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Speaker 1: a plow. It burrows through this dying and dead tissue

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Speaker 1: and it just yeah, it loosens up. That's part one

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Speaker 1: of deprived Part one. There's another part of it, which

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Speaker 1: is the digestive enzymes that they excrete and secrete. It's

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Speaker 1: called alimentary secretions and excretions a s. It's basically they're

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Speaker 1: digestive juices, right, and they puke these up as they're

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Speaker 1: moving around, and they just they just puke them everywhere

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Speaker 1: and it dissolves this flesh. Yeah, I remember in the

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Speaker 1: Body Farms episode we we talked about this one one

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Speaker 1: of the old classics. And that's why I said earlier.

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Speaker 1: They don't bite or choose something, they just lickquify it.

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Speaker 1: And then and this this A s. C. Stuff is

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Speaker 1: so greedy that it liquefies more dead flesh than the

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Speaker 1: maggots can even consume, and they consume quite a bit,

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Speaker 1: like you said, twenty five milligrams. That's a lot for

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Speaker 1: a little tiny maggot in one day. But even more

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Speaker 1: than that, they're liquefying even more of this dead tissue.

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Speaker 1: So that part of the process of maggot debridemant therapy

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Speaker 1: is draining out this liquefied necrotic tissue that's become liquefied

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Speaker 1: from the alimentary or the the A S C stuff,

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00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 1: the digest events ons, right, So you've got them burrowing around,

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00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: you've got them puking into your wound, liquefying the dead tissue,

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Speaker 1: leaving pretty much entirely the living tissue alone, and then

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Speaker 1: you just kind of drain out the stuff that's that's

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Speaker 1: in there. And the reason um that maggots are considered

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Speaker 1: by the FDA a medical device rather than a drug

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Speaker 1: is because the whole process of debridement isn't just a

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Speaker 1: reaction to the chemicals. It is part of that mechanical

359
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 1: movement of the maggots through the wound. So it's a drug,

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00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: it's a device. I mean it's a device. Look at them, yea.

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Speaker 1: And those that the secretions are so potent. They have

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Speaker 1: basically DNA destroying qualities, Like they not only just break

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Speaker 1: down tissue, they destroy the DNA. It's pretty amazing stuff

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Speaker 1: it is. Should we take another break? Yeah, I'm a

365
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: little excited. We probably should. I'm gonna go to the vomitorium.

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Speaker 1: Are you grossed out slightly? I am not in the least.

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Speaker 1: What does that say about me? I don't know. You

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Speaker 1: have a stronger stomach, but I don't necessarily. I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: just excited. All right, we'll go watch me vomited. At

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Speaker 1: least that will gross me out, all right, Well that

371
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Speaker 1: was disgusting, it was. It made me throw up in turn. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So here's a couple of questions. Um, does it hurt

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Speaker 1: Maybe a little bit at first. Yeah, I don't get

374
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Speaker 1: the feeling that it's extremely painful. It probably depends on

375
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Speaker 1: the wound. Um, But it can the first few treatments

376
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Speaker 1: can apparently be a little bit painful. Right, And there's

377
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Speaker 1: there's actually two mechanisms for the pain. One is that

378
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Speaker 1: of an open wound, right, and you have maggots crawling

379
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Speaker 1: over the exposed nerves in your open wound. That's not

380
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Speaker 1: gonna feel good, No, it won't. Uh. And then number two,

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Speaker 1: pressure in the wound can increase as the maggots get

382
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Speaker 1: bigger from eating so much dead flesh. So, yes, the

383
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: the the cura to that is pain killers, which, frankly,

384
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Speaker 1: if you have an open wound with exposed is nerves,

385
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: you should probably be on those anyway. Sure you will be,

386
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: so it probably won't hurt because there'll be some sort

387
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: of pain management going on, but you will still feel

388
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Speaker 1: most likely unless the doctor completely numbs the area. Maggots

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Speaker 1: crawling around inside you see, That's what That's the part

390
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Speaker 1: that gets me is actually thinking about undergoing this therapy

391
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: myself is what gets me, not like seeing it or

392
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 1: reading about it, but thinking about having an open wound

393
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Speaker 1: on the bottom of my foot and having maggots creeping

394
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: around in there. See. The thing is is I think

395
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: anybody would feel that way. There's very few, included myself.

396
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: I'm not grossed up by this, but I wouldn't want

397
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 1: maggots talking wound. But I think if your backs against

398
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 1: the wall, uh that, or you lose your foot, I try.

399
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: I would definitely try. I think people would apparently man

400
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,239
Speaker 1: and I would demand some high quality drugs. And they

401
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: also have um, what is it called amnesiotics to make

402
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: you forget about it so you can't form memor while

403
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: it's happening. So maybe that would be a nice thing

404
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: to do too. So the other question is can you

405
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: just use any kind of maggot And the answer is no.

406
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: What they found is the most useful is the larva

407
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: of the green blowfly. And like we said earlier, these

408
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: things are now grown just sort of like the medical

409
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 1: leeches there shipped and sterile containers. Uh, as if it

410
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: were medicine, even though it's a device and the B

411
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: T E R. Foundation. They go into a lot about this,

412
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Speaker 1: like could anybody do this? And they say, well, no,

413
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: because you need a prescription. It's an FDA control yourself.

414
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: But they say, anybody who can read can basically follow

415
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: the instructions on the package. Yeah, I wouldn't. I mean,

416
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: I wouldn't advise that as your nondoctor. Sure, I'm not

417
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: saying that either, but I mean this may be your

418
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: doctor's first time too. There. Their point was, it's not

419
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: it's not difficult, just follow the instructions on the packet.

420
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: What if you went into your doctor though he got

421
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: the maggots out and he put on his bifocals, was like,

422
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 1: all right, let's see how to do this right, or

423
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: like he tears the package open. They go everywhere you

424
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 1: have like Jerry Lewis as a doctor. Uh oh. But

425
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: although they do say, um, you can't just load it

426
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: up with maggots. There should be no more than eight

427
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: maggots per square centimeter. Yeah, I saw five to eight.

428
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: And so when you have the maggots applied to your

429
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: UM wound. They're going to make sure that the healthy

430
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 1: area around the wound is covered up so the maggots

431
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: can't get to it, which goes back to World War Two.

432
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: They're going to cover it, cover up the wound after

433
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: they apply the maggots five to eight per square centimeter,

434
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 1: like you say, they're gonna cover it up so they

435
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: can't wander off because maggots like to leave before their

436
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: work is done. Um TV. They're full pretty much, UM,

437
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: but they can still eat more if you'll keep them

438
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: in there, so they will cover up. They will put

439
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: the maggots in five to eight, cover it up with

440
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: this bandage and basically they will just sit there and

441
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: eat for between forty eight and seventy two hours, and

442
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: then the bandage will be removed. The maggots will then

443
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: sadly be incinerated or put into an autoclave or put

444
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: into a plasma gas of fire, or bronzed and hung

445
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: on your wall for real, like an ant farm. Yeah,

446
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: because it's like, thank you for this great contribution to

447
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: saving my foot, Now go be autoclave today. I would

448
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: name them and save them and preserve them. Um, you'd

449
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: be violating, I'm sure all sorts of medical waste laws,

450
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: but who cares and so and then that's that's what's

451
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: called the treatment cycle, and most patients UH supposedly go

452
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 1: between two and four treatment cycles. And again, while this

453
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: is happening, what's going on is the maggots are debriding

454
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: the dead flesh, they're liquefying it, they're eating it, and

455
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 1: they're also disinfecting it and stimulating growth. Right, pretty amazing.

456
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: So with the with this, with the disinfecting, figured that

457
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: there was some sort of gut flora that the maggots

458
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: have that prevents them from being infected by microbial That

459
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: would make sense because they're in that rotting flesh as well,

460
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: and they're right, So what gives Well, it turns out

461
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: that there are a couple of um types of I'm

462
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: not quite sure what what kind of um bacteria they are,

463
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: but they are. That's not true. The proteus mirabilious is

464
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: a type of symbiotic microbe that you find in the

465
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: gut of a maggot, right, And this thing just destroys

466
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: microbial life. So it's killing the bacteria that's causing this

467
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: infection in your wound. But there's something that that maggots.

468
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: This is yet another thing. So think about it, Chuck,

469
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: Like you said, maggots, the very structure of a maggot

470
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: body dibrides the wound. That's pretty amazing. This maggot anti

471
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: microbial stuff not only does it kill microbes, it destroys

472
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: the thing that naturally protects microbes, which called biofilm. Yeah,

473
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: we've talked about biofilm a lot on this show, and um,

474
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: it's basically it's basically a film, like a literal film,

475
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: like a They call it a polymeric matrix. But the

476
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: easiest way to say in Leyman's Terman is it's a film, right,

477
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: It's like a protective coding. Yeah, and the little spiny bodies,

478
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: like one way they get rid of the thing is

479
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: by roughing it up, And that's exactly what the little

480
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: bodies do, right, And that's part of surgical derived mint

481
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: with like um, like going in there and scrubbing a wound,

482
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: um with I don't know, steel wool or something like

483
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 1: that that will break up the biofilm. It's also must

484
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: be awfully painful, right. Maggots naturally can destroy not just

485
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: the bacteria, but also the biofilm that protects it too.

486
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: Which makes them extremely handy with things like MERSA and

487
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: other antibiotic resistant um bacteria and all kinds of ulcers, right,

488
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: not like internal ulcers, but the open wound kind right

489
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: exactly from diabetes, from bed sore um. And there's been

490
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: a lot of studies of people with bedstors that have

491
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: found that maggots helped those kind of ulcers tremendously. So, uh,

492
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: let's talk about this one study or a couple of studies. Actually, UM,

493
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: there was one study of spinal cord injury patients that

494
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: had non healing ulcers, which is the problem. They monitored

495
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: them over three to four weeks UM, and they were

496
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: getting regular wound care at the same time, like sometimes

497
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: it's used in conjunction, I think usually is used in

498
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: conjunction with like standard care. Uh. And they found that, uh,

499
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: after three or four weeks of maggot therapy, tissue quality

500
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: and wound size were ressessed weekly, and they found that

501
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: debridement was achieved in less than fourteen days an average

502
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: of ten days, and none of the control group wounds

503
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: were more than fifty dibrided after a month. A month

504
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: not even half dibrided. None of the wounds not half

505
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: the wounds were divided. None of the wounds were even

506
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: half dibrided after a month, chuck of the control group, Yes,

507
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: amazing where they didn't use the mag gets that. Yes,

508
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: that's that's objectively amazing it is. And then they did

509
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: a larger clinical trial and found UH. This time they

510
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: got two hundred and sixty three subjects, which is pretty

511
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: good for this kind of rare treatment for UH. And

512
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: they found that um using the hydrogel which you mentioned earlier,

513
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: compression dressings, just the standard care. That was the control. Yeah,

514
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: that's obviously the control they um. It differed significantly between

515
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: the three groups. Um, what was the third group? The

516
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: third group used bio bags, which are like it's like

517
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: a little pouch. You said, it was like a rav

518
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: healthy Yeah, and it's filled with live maggots, but it

519
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 1: prevents them from burrowing. All it is is using their

520
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: chemical secretions. Yeah, I don't That to me is just

521
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: like why go halfway? Right? Exactly? Well, people, I don't

522
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: want a maggot crawling in my wound, but a bag

523
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: of them is fine doing the shake shake near my wound. Right. So, um,

524
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: it actually has been shown to be not nearly as

525
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: effective as just letting what's called free range maggots burrow

526
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: through the wound. So they found the media time for

527
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: debryment was fourteen days with free range, twenty eight days

528
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: with the bag ravioli, and seventy two days for the control. Yeah,

529
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: that's pretty amazing. Yeah, Like I I don't know, I

530
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: don't think it should be a last resort. You know,

531
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: I agree, and I think that increasingly it's becoming less

532
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: and less of the last resort, because I mean, you

533
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: can compare it to the control, Like the standard of

534
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: care took seventy two days for the wound to be divided,

535
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 1: free range maggots fourteen days. That to me says that

536
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: free range maggots top the standard of care as it

537
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: stands right now. But like you say, there's a lot

538
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: of people who are saying, this is just a last resort.

539
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: The next thing we're gonna do is amputate your foot.

540
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: But let's try this one last time. Or in the

541
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: case of persistent infections from like MERSA, where just antibiotics

542
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,239
Speaker 1: just don't work, let's let's try maggots and see if

543
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: we can fix it. And maggots do work. There was

544
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: a study that found that of thirteen people treated who

545
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: had Merca treated with maggots alone. Twelve of the thirteen

546
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: had complete recovery and wound healing um from a mercer infection.

547
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: Mercy's nasty stuff too. Yeah, I think did we do

548
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: what I'm merca? I feel like we did. I know

549
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: we've talked about it. I don't know if it got

550
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: its own show, though it may have been in the

551
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: should we outlaw anti bacterial Soap episode? Well there's been

552
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: a lot of them, almost eight hundred. Uh you got

553
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: anything else? Surely I do, but I guess not. Um.

554
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Well, there's one other thing we kept kind

555
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: of teasing it. It actually stimulates growth. A couple of

556
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: studies have found that the presence of maggots um produce

557
00:33:54,760 --> 00:34:00,479
Speaker 1: more blood vessel redevelopment and tissue redevelopment than it's not

558
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: being present. So something about them actually stimulates tissue growth

559
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: and blood vessel growth, which promotes wound healing even more.

560
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: Up with maggots. Up with maggots indeed, Man, I love them.

561
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: I'm so psyched about maggots right now. Well, it definitely

562
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: changes the way you think about them, Like next time

563
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: you see a the dead squirrel that you've killed. They're

564
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: clearly trying to bring it back to life. Yeah, and

565
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: you see the maggots you can. You don't think that's disgusting.

566
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 1: You just think those are little things doing their thing,

567
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: doing their thing. Little things doing their thing. Now I'm

568
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: going to auto clay them. That's right. If you want

569
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: to know more about maggot therapy, you can type those

570
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: words in the search bar at how stuff forks dot com.

571
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 1: And since i said search parts, time forward listener, I'm

572
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: gonna call this taking the task somewhat over a term. Guys,

573
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: I want to say you are my favorite podcast by far.

574
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: I've been listening since you were just a little five

575
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: minute blurbs. Oh man, you sure have grown up. I've

576
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: never written in before, but felt I had to comment

577
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: on Josh's statement that climate change was for global warming

578
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: was settled science. No, I'm not disputing the data that

579
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: shows an increase in global temperatures. While you can certainly

580
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: argue it's accuracy, especially for older data, it's still just data.

581
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: It's not science. The part that gets me upset about

582
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: the term settled science that by definition, science is never settled,

583
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: and that's in all caps. I think we talked a

584
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: lot about this as a scientific method up this stuff.

585
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: You guys actually did a podcast on the scientific method,

586
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: So you should know that at best you can show

587
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 1: a particular theory is supported by existing data and not

588
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: contradicted by anything we know of at the time. But

589
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: there's a reason that ultra successful theories like Muton's theory

590
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: of gravity hind science theory of relativity are still theories.

591
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: They could be completely discredited by a single piece of

592
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: data contradicting them. So the whole idea of taking a

593
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 1: body of fact saying it's settled is far more political

594
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: concept than scientific. When while people with various viewpoints in

595
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: the subject would like to have uh someplace to plant

596
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: their ideological flag, saying something is indisputedly true as opposed

597
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: to probably false is simply not something science and the

598
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: scientific method is equipped to do. In short, science is

599
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: never settled. You cannot simply say this is true. Move on,

600
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 1: it's not how it works. And that is from Spencer

601
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: Carpenter right here in our own Smyrna, Georgia. We're not

602
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: in well, I mean it's it's nearby. What I just

603
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 1: did is what Spencer just did. Spencer, I was using

604
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 1: a literary device. I was actually using the same type

605
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: of argument that science that non science climate deniers use

606
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: against scientists. I was basically saying, like, it's done, drop it.

607
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: There's enough science there to say you're you're you're wrong.

608
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: Let's move on and just all except that climate science

609
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: is going. It's a layoff. So that was a clever ruse.

610
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: It wasn't a ruse at all. It was it was

611
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: just I was not be literal like apparently, which is

612
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,919
Speaker 1: what Spencer deals in literal terms. Uh, if you want

613
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: to take us to test because you are overly literal,

614
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. You can tweet to

615
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: us at s y s K podcast. You can join

616
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: us on Facebook, dot com, slash stuff you Should Know.

617
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at

618
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com and has always joined us

619
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: at our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know

620
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 1: dot com For more on this and thousands of other topics,

621
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: is it how Stuff Works dot com