WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Women Pirates

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is short stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>uh ahoy, which is pretty appropriate, Chuck, even though you

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<v Speaker 1>always say it not always most of the time it's

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<v Speaker 1>not very appropriate. This time it fits very well. That's right,

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<v Speaker 1>because we're talking about pirates with a Y, Pirates with

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<v Speaker 1>the Y, and also pirates with two X chromosomes. That's right.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you ever seen the TV show Our Flag Means Death?

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<v Speaker 1>I did. I watched the first few and I just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of fell out of it. But yeah, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>very very cute show. Yeah, okay, did you watch Have

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<v Speaker 1>you watched all of them? Yeah? Yeah, I like it

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<v Speaker 1>a lot, but it kind of got me wondering because

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<v Speaker 1>a big you know, it's kind of known as the

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<v Speaker 1>most queer positive show on television and the show about pirates,

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<v Speaker 1>so you might if you haven't seen it, you might think, well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's odd. But on the show there as a female

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<v Speaker 1>character who was masquerading as a man pirate, and then

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<v Speaker 1>there I don't want to spoil anything, but there's also

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<v Speaker 1>a budding relationship of the same sex, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>very kind of fun reveal. On the show, and I

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<v Speaker 1>was just kind of wondering if that's all made up

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<v Speaker 1>for this show. And it turns out it looks like

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<v Speaker 1>piracy and pirate ships were kind of a haven sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>for gay women or now what we probably would know

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<v Speaker 1>as trans people, because you could hide out and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think as long as you did your work, there

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't a lot of uh well, I mean, who knows

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<v Speaker 1>how they were really treated, but it seemed to be

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<v Speaker 1>like a place that people could go in the queer

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<v Speaker 1>community and the whatever sixteen hundreds, And I don't I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think Chuck, um, you had to necessarily just identify

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<v Speaker 1>as a different gender, um like you could you were

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<v Speaker 1>if you were a woman in were out of the

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<v Speaker 1>high seas, you were probably dressing like a man one

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<v Speaker 1>way or another. Largely because ships, um it was considered

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<v Speaker 1>bad luck to have a woman on a ship. But

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<v Speaker 1>the two women that we're going to talk about, uh

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<v Speaker 1>and Bonnie and Mary Reid, they were such b A's

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<v Speaker 1>as pirates with a y or and I it doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>matter that they were openly women. Um who did still

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<v Speaker 1>dress his men, but everyone on their ship knew they

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<v Speaker 1>were women, and they were reputed to have been the

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<v Speaker 1>um the toughest, most ready to fight pirates on on

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<v Speaker 1>the ship, including the captain. That's right, and they were

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<v Speaker 1>doing it in the middle of We love our Golden ages,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were certainly active in the golden age of

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<v Speaker 1>piracy from the mid seventeenth century to like the first

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<v Speaker 1>quarter of the eighteen Uh. And we need to think

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<v Speaker 1>a few people Britannica. We should just always think Britannica. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the s s Britannica and Mark Mancini from how Stuff

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<v Speaker 1>Works dot com because they point out a very sort

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<v Speaker 1>of truism, which is, Uh, there were books about pirates

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<v Speaker 1>and stuff back then. One very notable one. Uh. The

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<v Speaker 1>long title is a General History of the Robberies and

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<v Speaker 1>Murders of the most Notorious Pirates with a y uh

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<v Speaker 1>and or as it's generally known, a general History of

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<v Speaker 1>the Pirates. And these books back then were hot sellers,

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<v Speaker 1>so they were fun, but you couldn't count on them

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<v Speaker 1>to be historically accurate necessarily. Uh. It seems like they

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<v Speaker 1>kind of went with lore when they didn't know if

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<v Speaker 1>it was fact or not, and they wanted to tell

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<v Speaker 1>the good story and sell books. Yeah. So it's the

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<v Speaker 1>same as true crime, as it's always been basically, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's a little better now, right, I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>it's much better. But there there is a that book,

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<v Speaker 1>in particular, the General History of the Pirates UM, It's

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<v Speaker 1>it's it. It provides a conundrum for historians piracy, especially

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<v Speaker 1>the Golden Age of piracy, because that's really what it covers. UM,

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<v Speaker 1>because there's a lot of stuff in there that probably

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<v Speaker 1>is true. There's a lot of stuff in there that's

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<v Speaker 1>probably embellishment, and if you read, you know, the actual text,

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<v Speaker 1>it's really hard to differentiate one from the other. So

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<v Speaker 1>you have to read the book basically as a historian

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<v Speaker 1>and go through and find documentary evidence to back up

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<v Speaker 1>this claim or or the other. And UM, in particular

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<v Speaker 1>with Mary Reid and a Bonnie, they've had a really

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<v Speaker 1>hard time to do that. So I have my hat

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<v Speaker 1>off to Mark Mancini from How Stuff Works, because he

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<v Speaker 1>didn't fall for any of it. And there stuff in

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<v Speaker 1>the Britannica Encyclopedia entries that has been proven to have

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<v Speaker 1>been made up by novelists as late as the nineteen sixties,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's being touted as fact. And it's not just

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<v Speaker 1>Britannica Wikipedia. There's a ton of like reputable sources that

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<v Speaker 1>that have just kind of fallen for these um, these

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<v Speaker 1>inaccuracies that have been did as flourishes over the years.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder if Mark Mancini read the book and said, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>wait a minute, I think everywhere it's italicized, it's still

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<v Speaker 1>will be its. There's a lot of italics in there too, giveaway. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So the book itself is written by a guy named

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<v Speaker 1>Captain Charles Johnson, who did not exist. That's a pen name,

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<v Speaker 1>And I've seen it attributed typically to Daniel Defoe, the

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<v Speaker 1>author of Robinson Crusoe, and then alternatively there was a

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<v Speaker 1>publisher named Nathaniel Missed, and they think that it was

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<v Speaker 1>probably one of those two guys who wrote it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>apparently Defoe worked for Missed. So I think it's just

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<v Speaker 1>one of those things where their professors and people in

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<v Speaker 1>the literature community that like to pull up their sleeves

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<v Speaker 1>and battle it out on that when the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>us don't really care. But the point is the general

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<v Speaker 1>history or a general history of pirates with a Y

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<v Speaker 1>has some stuff that we should go over either way.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree, And Bonnie, should we take a break first? Uh? Yeah, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll take a break, and we'll come back and introduce

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<v Speaker 1>the world to Anne, Bonnie and Mary. Read alright, what

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<v Speaker 1>a great cliffhanger, as I was saying. And Bonnie Uh

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<v Speaker 1>born in Ireland near Cork, Ireland and apparently had a

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<v Speaker 1>pretty rough childhood, as I bet a lot of kids

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<v Speaker 1>back then had, and was the illegitimate daughter of an

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<v Speaker 1>attorney who was married. But this was the baby he

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<v Speaker 1>had with his maid servant lady, and supposedly he would

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<v Speaker 1>dress her as a boy as a kid to sort

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<v Speaker 1>of deflect from the fact that she was illegitimate and

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<v Speaker 1>just say no, this is my my boy servant who's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be my assistant training at this point. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>And eventually the the scandal got out, the whole thing

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<v Speaker 1>was was known to the county, and um the guy

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<v Speaker 1>lost his practice. Her father, who's sometimes identified as William Cormack,

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<v Speaker 1>James Cormack, and a bunch of other names. But the

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<v Speaker 1>upshot is her her lawyer father basically lost his practice

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<v Speaker 1>because of the scandal, and so he moved his daughter

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<v Speaker 1>Uh and and um the servant made her and mother

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<v Speaker 1>to Carolina and probably to Charlestown, which is now known

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<v Speaker 1>as Charlestown is if they moved to Carolina at any

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<v Speaker 1>point from Europe, that's probably where they settled. Yeah, like

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<v Speaker 1>Bill Murray exactly, anybody who's anybody ends up in Charlestown. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>so they end up And this was he said Carolina.

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<v Speaker 1>This is before there was a North and South Carolina,

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<v Speaker 1>and A think they just said that we shall be

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<v Speaker 1>Carolina in one day there would be an NFL team

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<v Speaker 1>that represents us both. That's right, although I think they're

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<v Speaker 1>more The Panthers are definitely North Carolina, so that's where

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<v Speaker 1>they're base. But I think they did that in a

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<v Speaker 1>bid to get South Carolina people to root for them too, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and to cough up some money, like the New England

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<v Speaker 1>Patriots are like just all of New England should root

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<v Speaker 1>for us exactly or well green Bay Packers is like

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<v Speaker 1>the opposite of that. Why because it's specifically in Green Bay. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>they said no one else in Wisconsin root for us exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>It's specifically in a very small town and it's I

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<v Speaker 1>think the team is owned by the town too. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I gotta go to a game there. I bought my

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<v Speaker 1>friend Adam one share of Green Bay Packers stock last year.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a great Christmas present. It is, but it's meaningless apparently.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh so where are we here? Um, they moved to Charlestown.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right, they moved to Charlestown. Historical records are very fuzzy,

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<v Speaker 1>but it may have been born and full Ford with

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<v Speaker 1>the alias of Bonnie and supposedly got that name from

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<v Speaker 1>being married to another pirate, uh named James Bonnie, but

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<v Speaker 1>then went and married and I don't know about Mary,

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<v Speaker 1>but at least went off with a pirate named John

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<v Speaker 1>Rackham who she definitely worked with. Like, we have records

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<v Speaker 1>that prove that she worked for John, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if this is a speculation or not

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<v Speaker 1>that they were kissing and stuff. Yes that I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's pretty much proven. But yes, documentary evidence shows that

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<v Speaker 1>she was a pirate with John Calico Jack Rackham. It

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<v Speaker 1>is a great name. So um again, it was weird

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<v Speaker 1>that Rackham would have a woman on board with him

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<v Speaker 1>is considered extremely bad luck. But Rackham had not just one,

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<v Speaker 1>but two women on board with him because in addition

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<v Speaker 1>to an Bonnie, he had another woman pirate named Mary Reid,

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<v Speaker 1>who also had a kind of a strange um early

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<v Speaker 1>life as well. That that landed her on the high seas. Eventually,

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder if it was like one is bad luck

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<v Speaker 1>and two a party. Yeah, well that was one thing.

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<v Speaker 1>So Mary Read in particular, Um she was, so I

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<v Speaker 1>read the Ambonnie was not Um as chased as Mary

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<v Speaker 1>Read was. But Mary Reid would fall in love really

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<v Speaker 1>easily and be like, let's get married, and so she

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<v Speaker 1>did that a few times. But there was one man

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<v Speaker 1>who tried to have his way with Mary Read, and

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<v Speaker 1>according to the history of the Pirates Um, she beat

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<v Speaker 1>him nearly to death. So she she she could definitely

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<v Speaker 1>handle herself for sure from an early age. Yeah. And

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<v Speaker 1>there was also this story that they both were aboard

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<v Speaker 1>UM dressed as men, and this almost certainly seems like

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<v Speaker 1>it's probably made up, but both dressed as men, and

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<v Speaker 1>Bonnie crushed on Reid as a woman masquerading as a man,

0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.000
<v Speaker 1>thinking it was another man. And then it sounds like

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<v Speaker 1>straight out of a TV show. They go into a

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<v Speaker 1>side room and both I guess, like pull off their

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<v Speaker 1>fake mustache at the same time. Yeah, and the ace

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<v Speaker 1>bandages exactly uh and went ah, we're both women. But

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<v Speaker 1>that that definitely sounds like it's in italics, right, for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>I also saw though, that there was a book as

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<v Speaker 1>recently or as early as like the seventeen fifties that

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<v Speaker 1>that supposed that they were actually lovers. Okay, well, that

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<v Speaker 1>sounds like overactive imagination of a male writer to me, right.

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<v Speaker 1>So the upshot is, though, that we do know from

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<v Speaker 1>the scant documentary evidence that Mary reid And and Bonnie

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<v Speaker 1>were both pirates with Calico Jack Rackham on the ships

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<v Speaker 1>that Rackham stole, and they engaged in piracy. Witnesses at

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<v Speaker 1>their trial spoiler alert, they were, and they ended up

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<v Speaker 1>caught and tried said like these women would curse and

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<v Speaker 1>spit at the men. There was one person who said

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<v Speaker 1>that the men were hiding below decks, and Mary reid

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<v Speaker 1>And and Bonnie were above deck fighting and the men

0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.040
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't come out, so and Bonnie shot into the into

0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.480
<v Speaker 1>the lower decks and actual one guy because she considered

0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.600
<v Speaker 1>them being cowards like they were. They were definitely known

0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:09.160
<v Speaker 1>to have fought as pirates. They weren't captured, they weren't

0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.040
<v Speaker 1>there against their will. They were swash buckling with the

0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.720
<v Speaker 1>best of them. They were there for the booty. They

0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.720
<v Speaker 1>were uh so they were collecting booty all over the place,

0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.320
<v Speaker 1>and eventually a um, I guess you would call it

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<v Speaker 1>sort of a most wanted sort of declaration was put

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<v Speaker 1>out naming them as pirates and enemies to the Crown

0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.680
<v Speaker 1>of Great Britain. And this was in September of seventeen

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<v Speaker 1>and this is because well they were pirating everywhere, but

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<v Speaker 1>a few weeks before, in August of that year, they

0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.280
<v Speaker 1>stole a ship named the William and really sort of

0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:48.960
<v Speaker 1>went to town, uh, basically through October, so they had

0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.839
<v Speaker 1>a nice run through the fall. And then in late

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<v Speaker 1>October seventeen twenty, Uh, they were entertaining some gentlemen, not

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<v Speaker 1>just the ladies, like the whole crew. I think they

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<v Speaker 1>were what like five or six of them total. I

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<v Speaker 1>saw a dozen, Okay, let's say a dozen. Then uh,

0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:09.720
<v Speaker 1>and they were entertaining some guys, uh, mariners from the

0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.840
<v Speaker 1>Port Royal and apparently he got a little out of hand,

0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.880
<v Speaker 1>turned into a big fight and drew some attention, and

0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.800
<v Speaker 1>a pirate hunter named Jonathan Barnett snagged them into custody

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<v Speaker 1>and that was it. They had actually slipped if you

0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.160
<v Speaker 1>read the pirate history, Uh, they'd slipped through the hands

0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.320
<v Speaker 1>of other pirate hunters. A few times and some really

0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:34.840
<v Speaker 1>amazing daring dues. If they're true, even if they're not true,

0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:41.559
<v Speaker 1>it's still worth reading. Yes, exactly, Chuck, thank you, Williams Sapphire. Um,

0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 1>they they this time though, they were caught and they

0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:48.920
<v Speaker 1>were tried in Spanish Town, Jamaica, and apparently every single

0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.320
<v Speaker 1>person ended up being found guilty. They had a couple

0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:56.120
<v Speaker 1>of different trials. A couple of guys really were abducted. Um.

0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:58.600
<v Speaker 1>They were French like hunters on an island and they

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.079
<v Speaker 1>were abducted and full worst into this and they were

0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.559
<v Speaker 1>still tried and um convicted and every single male crewman

0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:10.360
<v Speaker 1>was hanged. Right. But there's a good final twist another

0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:16.319
<v Speaker 1>TV scene moment. Uh. In court as they were being

0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 1>I guess uh read their verdict, Marian Anne looked at

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.080
<v Speaker 1>each other and winked and at the same time said

0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:28.200
<v Speaker 1>threw their arms up and said we're pregnant. Uh. And

0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.840
<v Speaker 1>apparently that was the deal they were not. It was

0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:33.440
<v Speaker 1>called pleading the belly, which will get you out of

0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 1>being put to death at least and being hanged. But

0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.520
<v Speaker 1>they were not making it up. They were uh, you know,

0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:43.280
<v Speaker 1>inspected I guess I hope by a doctor and found

0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:47.880
<v Speaker 1>to be really pregnant, and so they avoided the gallows. Yeah. Um,

0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:51.560
<v Speaker 1>they were probably in their second trimester. Later historians said

0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:56.600
<v Speaker 1>um Mary Reid died fairly shortly after the following April,

0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.720
<v Speaker 1>and some historians have said that probably coincide with childbirth,

0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.160
<v Speaker 1>so she might have died in childbirth. Her grave is

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.720
<v Speaker 1>in St. Catherine, Jamaica. You can go visit it. And

0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:12.200
<v Speaker 1>um and Bonnie though she became more obscure according to

0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:16.960
<v Speaker 1>the history Captain Johnson's history. Um, she was let go

0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.480
<v Speaker 1>at some point. Uh, and we don't know where she went.

0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.240
<v Speaker 1>But all only this we know that she was not executed.

0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.720
<v Speaker 1>What a great ending. Yeah, I also saw that after that.

0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Some people suppose that she went back to Charleston, married

0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.880
<v Speaker 1>another man, had eight kids. And it would be possible

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.520
<v Speaker 1>then that there are descendants of Ambonnie out there running

0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:43.280
<v Speaker 1>around on the Isle of Palms. Perhaps probably maybe they'll

0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:48.080
<v Speaker 1>find my tooth. It's that's some booty right there. That

0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.040
<v Speaker 1>some boy. I'll give you some other booty. Short stuff

0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:56.880
<v Speaker 1>is out. Stuff you should know is a production of

0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.120
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0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.960
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0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:10.760
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