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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and

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Speaker 1: there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is short stuff,

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Speaker 1: uh ahoy, which is pretty appropriate, Chuck, even though you

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Speaker 1: always say it not always most of the time it's

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Speaker 1: not very appropriate. This time it fits very well. That's right,

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Speaker 1: because we're talking about pirates with a Y, Pirates with

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Speaker 1: the Y, and also pirates with two X chromosomes. That's right.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever seen the TV show Our Flag Means Death?

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Speaker 1: I did. I watched the first few and I just

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Speaker 1: kind of fell out of it. But yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: very very cute show. Yeah, okay, did you watch Have

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Speaker 1: you watched all of them? Yeah? Yeah, I like it

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Speaker 1: a lot, but it kind of got me wondering because

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Speaker 1: a big you know, it's kind of known as the

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Speaker 1: most queer positive show on television and the show about pirates,

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Speaker 1: so you might if you haven't seen it, you might think, well,

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Speaker 1: that's odd. But on the show there as a female

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Speaker 1: character who was masquerading as a man pirate, and then

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Speaker 1: there I don't want to spoil anything, but there's also

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Speaker 1: a budding relationship of the same sex, which is a

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Speaker 1: very kind of fun reveal. On the show, and I

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Speaker 1: was just kind of wondering if that's all made up

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Speaker 1: for this show. And it turns out it looks like

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Speaker 1: piracy and pirate ships were kind of a haven sometimes

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Speaker 1: for gay women or now what we probably would know

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Speaker 1: as trans people, because you could hide out and you know,

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Speaker 1: I think as long as you did your work, there

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Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of uh well, I mean, who knows

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Speaker 1: how they were really treated, but it seemed to be

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Speaker 1: like a place that people could go in the queer

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Speaker 1: community and the whatever sixteen hundreds, And I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't think Chuck, um, you had to necessarily just identify

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Speaker 1: as a different gender, um like you could you were

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Speaker 1: if you were a woman in were out of the

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Speaker 1: high seas, you were probably dressing like a man one

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Speaker 1: way or another. Largely because ships, um it was considered

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Speaker 1: bad luck to have a woman on a ship. But

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Speaker 1: the two women that we're going to talk about, uh

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Speaker 1: and Bonnie and Mary Reid, they were such b A's

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Speaker 1: as pirates with a y or and I it doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter that they were openly women. Um who did still

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Speaker 1: dress his men, but everyone on their ship knew they

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Speaker 1: were women, and they were reputed to have been the

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Speaker 1: um the toughest, most ready to fight pirates on on

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Speaker 1: the ship, including the captain. That's right, and they were

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Speaker 1: doing it in the middle of We love our Golden ages,

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Speaker 1: and they were certainly active in the golden age of

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Speaker 1: piracy from the mid seventeenth century to like the first

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Speaker 1: quarter of the eighteen Uh. And we need to think

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Speaker 1: a few people Britannica. We should just always think Britannica. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the s s Britannica and Mark Mancini from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com because they point out a very sort

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Speaker 1: of truism, which is, Uh, there were books about pirates

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Speaker 1: and stuff back then. One very notable one. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: long title is a General History of the Robberies and

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Speaker 1: Murders of the most Notorious Pirates with a y uh

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Speaker 1: and or as it's generally known, a general History of

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Speaker 1: the Pirates. And these books back then were hot sellers,

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Speaker 1: so they were fun, but you couldn't count on them

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Speaker 1: to be historically accurate necessarily. Uh. It seems like they

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Speaker 1: kind of went with lore when they didn't know if

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Speaker 1: it was fact or not, and they wanted to tell

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Speaker 1: the good story and sell books. Yeah. So it's the

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Speaker 1: same as true crime, as it's always been basically, well,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a little better now, right, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: it's much better. But there there is a that book,

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Speaker 1: in particular, the General History of the Pirates UM, It's

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Speaker 1: it's it. It provides a conundrum for historians piracy, especially

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Speaker 1: the Golden Age of piracy, because that's really what it covers. UM,

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Speaker 1: because there's a lot of stuff in there that probably

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Speaker 1: is true. There's a lot of stuff in there that's

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Speaker 1: probably embellishment, and if you read, you know, the actual text,

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to differentiate one from the other. So

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Speaker 1: you have to read the book basically as a historian

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Speaker 1: and go through and find documentary evidence to back up

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Speaker 1: this claim or or the other. And UM, in particular

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Speaker 1: with Mary Reid and a Bonnie, they've had a really

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Speaker 1: hard time to do that. So I have my hat

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Speaker 1: off to Mark Mancini from How Stuff Works, because he

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Speaker 1: didn't fall for any of it. And there stuff in

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Speaker 1: the Britannica Encyclopedia entries that has been proven to have

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Speaker 1: been made up by novelists as late as the nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: and it's being touted as fact. And it's not just

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Speaker 1: Britannica Wikipedia. There's a ton of like reputable sources that

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Speaker 1: that have just kind of fallen for these um, these

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Speaker 1: inaccuracies that have been did as flourishes over the years.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if Mark Mancini read the book and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, I think everywhere it's italicized, it's still

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Speaker 1: will be its. There's a lot of italics in there too, giveaway. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the book itself is written by a guy named

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Speaker 1: Captain Charles Johnson, who did not exist. That's a pen name,

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Speaker 1: And I've seen it attributed typically to Daniel Defoe, the

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Speaker 1: author of Robinson Crusoe, and then alternatively there was a

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Speaker 1: publisher named Nathaniel Missed, and they think that it was

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Speaker 1: probably one of those two guys who wrote it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: apparently Defoe worked for Missed. So I think it's just

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Speaker 1: one of those things where their professors and people in

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Speaker 1: the literature community that like to pull up their sleeves

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Speaker 1: and battle it out on that when the rest of

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Speaker 1: us don't really care. But the point is the general

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Speaker 1: history or a general history of pirates with a Y

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Speaker 1: has some stuff that we should go over either way.

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Speaker 1: I agree, And Bonnie, should we take a break first? Uh? Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: we'll take a break, and we'll come back and introduce

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Speaker 1: the world to Anne, Bonnie and Mary. Read alright, what

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Speaker 1: a great cliffhanger, as I was saying. And Bonnie Uh

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Speaker 1: born in Ireland near Cork, Ireland and apparently had a

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Speaker 1: pretty rough childhood, as I bet a lot of kids

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Speaker 1: back then had, and was the illegitimate daughter of an

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Speaker 1: attorney who was married. But this was the baby he

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Speaker 1: had with his maid servant lady, and supposedly he would

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Speaker 1: dress her as a boy as a kid to sort

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Speaker 1: of deflect from the fact that she was illegitimate and

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Speaker 1: just say no, this is my my boy servant who's

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Speaker 1: going to be my assistant training at this point. Um.

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Speaker 1: And eventually the the scandal got out, the whole thing

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Speaker 1: was was known to the county, and um the guy

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Speaker 1: lost his practice. Her father, who's sometimes identified as William Cormack,

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Speaker 1: James Cormack, and a bunch of other names. But the

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Speaker 1: upshot is her her lawyer father basically lost his practice

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Speaker 1: because of the scandal, and so he moved his daughter

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Speaker 1: Uh and and um the servant made her and mother

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Speaker 1: to Carolina and probably to Charlestown, which is now known

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Speaker 1: as Charlestown is if they moved to Carolina at any

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Speaker 1: point from Europe, that's probably where they settled. Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: Bill Murray exactly, anybody who's anybody ends up in Charlestown. Uh,

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Speaker 1: so they end up And this was he said Carolina.

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Speaker 1: This is before there was a North and South Carolina,

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Speaker 1: and A think they just said that we shall be

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Speaker 1: Carolina in one day there would be an NFL team

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Speaker 1: that represents us both. That's right, although I think they're

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Speaker 1: more The Panthers are definitely North Carolina, so that's where

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Speaker 1: they're base. But I think they did that in a

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Speaker 1: bid to get South Carolina people to root for them too, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and to cough up some money, like the New England

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Speaker 1: Patriots are like just all of New England should root

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Speaker 1: for us exactly or well green Bay Packers is like

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Speaker 1: the opposite of that. Why because it's specifically in Green Bay. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they said no one else in Wisconsin root for us exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's specifically in a very small town and it's I

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Speaker 1: think the team is owned by the town too. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I gotta go to a game there. I bought my

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Speaker 1: friend Adam one share of Green Bay Packers stock last year.

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Speaker 1: That's a great Christmas present. It is, but it's meaningless apparently.

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Speaker 1: Uh so where are we here? Um, they moved to Charlestown.

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Speaker 1: That's right, they moved to Charlestown. Historical records are very fuzzy,

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Speaker 1: but it may have been born and full Ford with

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Speaker 1: the alias of Bonnie and supposedly got that name from

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Speaker 1: being married to another pirate, uh named James Bonnie, but

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Speaker 1: then went and married and I don't know about Mary,

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Speaker 1: but at least went off with a pirate named John

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Speaker 1: Rackham who she definitely worked with. Like, we have records

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Speaker 1: that prove that she worked for John, and I think

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this is a speculation or not

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Speaker 1: that they were kissing and stuff. Yes that I think

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Speaker 1: that's pretty much proven. But yes, documentary evidence shows that

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Speaker 1: she was a pirate with John Calico Jack Rackham. It

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Speaker 1: is a great name. So um again, it was weird

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Speaker 1: that Rackham would have a woman on board with him

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Speaker 1: is considered extremely bad luck. But Rackham had not just one,

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Speaker 1: but two women on board with him because in addition

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Speaker 1: to an Bonnie, he had another woman pirate named Mary Reid,

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Speaker 1: who also had a kind of a strange um early

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Speaker 1: life as well. That that landed her on the high seas. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if it was like one is bad luck

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Speaker 1: and two a party. Yeah, well that was one thing.

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Speaker 1: So Mary Read in particular, Um she was, so I

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Speaker 1: read the Ambonnie was not Um as chased as Mary

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Speaker 1: Read was. But Mary Reid would fall in love really

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Speaker 1: easily and be like, let's get married, and so she

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Speaker 1: did that a few times. But there was one man

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Speaker 1: who tried to have his way with Mary Read, and

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Speaker 1: according to the history of the Pirates Um, she beat

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Speaker 1: him nearly to death. So she she she could definitely

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Speaker 1: handle herself for sure from an early age. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: there was also this story that they both were aboard

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Speaker 1: UM dressed as men, and this almost certainly seems like

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Speaker 1: it's probably made up, but both dressed as men, and

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Speaker 1: Bonnie crushed on Reid as a woman masquerading as a man,

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Speaker 1: thinking it was another man. And then it sounds like

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Speaker 1: straight out of a TV show. They go into a

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Speaker 1: side room and both I guess, like pull off their

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Speaker 1: fake mustache at the same time. Yeah, and the ace

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Speaker 1: bandages exactly uh and went ah, we're both women. But

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Speaker 1: that that definitely sounds like it's in italics, right, for sure.

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Speaker 1: I also saw though, that there was a book as

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Speaker 1: recently or as early as like the seventeen fifties that

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Speaker 1: that supposed that they were actually lovers. Okay, well, that

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Speaker 1: sounds like overactive imagination of a male writer to me, right.

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Speaker 1: So the upshot is, though, that we do know from

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Speaker 1: the scant documentary evidence that Mary reid And and Bonnie

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Speaker 1: were both pirates with Calico Jack Rackham on the ships

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Speaker 1: that Rackham stole, and they engaged in piracy. Witnesses at

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Speaker 1: their trial spoiler alert, they were, and they ended up

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Speaker 1: caught and tried said like these women would curse and

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Speaker 1: spit at the men. There was one person who said

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Speaker 1: that the men were hiding below decks, and Mary reid

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Speaker 1: And and Bonnie were above deck fighting and the men

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Speaker 1: wouldn't come out, so and Bonnie shot into the into

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Speaker 1: the lower decks and actual one guy because she considered

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Speaker 1: them being cowards like they were. They were definitely known

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Speaker 1: to have fought as pirates. They weren't captured, they weren't

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Speaker 1: there against their will. They were swash buckling with the

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Speaker 1: best of them. They were there for the booty. They

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Speaker 1: were uh so they were collecting booty all over the place,

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Speaker 1: and eventually a um, I guess you would call it

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Speaker 1: sort of a most wanted sort of declaration was put

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Speaker 1: out naming them as pirates and enemies to the Crown

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Speaker 1: of Great Britain. And this was in September of seventeen

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Speaker 1: and this is because well they were pirating everywhere, but

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Speaker 1: a few weeks before, in August of that year, they

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Speaker 1: stole a ship named the William and really sort of

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Speaker 1: went to town, uh, basically through October, so they had

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Speaker 1: a nice run through the fall. And then in late

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Speaker 1: October seventeen twenty, Uh, they were entertaining some gentlemen, not

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Speaker 1: just the ladies, like the whole crew. I think they

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Speaker 1: were what like five or six of them total. I

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Speaker 1: saw a dozen, Okay, let's say a dozen. Then uh,

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Speaker 1: and they were entertaining some guys, uh, mariners from the

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Speaker 1: Port Royal and apparently he got a little out of hand,

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Speaker 1: turned into a big fight and drew some attention, and

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Speaker 1: a pirate hunter named Jonathan Barnett snagged them into custody

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Speaker 1: and that was it. They had actually slipped if you

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Speaker 1: read the pirate history, Uh, they'd slipped through the hands

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Speaker 1: of other pirate hunters. A few times and some really

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Speaker 1: amazing daring dues. If they're true, even if they're not true,

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Speaker 1: it's still worth reading. Yes, exactly, Chuck, thank you, Williams Sapphire. Um,

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Speaker 1: they they this time though, they were caught and they

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Speaker 1: were tried in Spanish Town, Jamaica, and apparently every single

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Speaker 1: person ended up being found guilty. They had a couple

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Speaker 1: of different trials. A couple of guys really were abducted. Um.

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Speaker 1: They were French like hunters on an island and they

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Speaker 1: were abducted and full worst into this and they were

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Speaker 1: still tried and um convicted and every single male crewman

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Speaker 1: was hanged. Right. But there's a good final twist another

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Speaker 1: TV scene moment. Uh. In court as they were being

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Speaker 1: I guess uh read their verdict, Marian Anne looked at

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Speaker 1: each other and winked and at the same time said

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Speaker 1: threw their arms up and said we're pregnant. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: apparently that was the deal they were not. It was

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Speaker 1: called pleading the belly, which will get you out of

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Speaker 1: being put to death at least and being hanged. But

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Speaker 1: they were not making it up. They were uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: inspected I guess I hope by a doctor and found

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Speaker 1: to be really pregnant, and so they avoided the gallows. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: they were probably in their second trimester. Later historians said

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Speaker 1: um Mary Reid died fairly shortly after the following April,

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Speaker 1: and some historians have said that probably coincide with childbirth,

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Speaker 1: so she might have died in childbirth. Her grave is

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Speaker 1: in St. Catherine, Jamaica. You can go visit it. And

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Speaker 1: um and Bonnie though she became more obscure according to

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Speaker 1: the history Captain Johnson's history. Um, she was let go

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Speaker 1: at some point. Uh, and we don't know where she went.

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Speaker 1: But all only this we know that she was not executed.

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Speaker 1: What a great ending. Yeah, I also saw that after that.

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Speaker 1: Some people suppose that she went back to Charleston, married

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Speaker 1: another man, had eight kids. And it would be possible

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Speaker 1: then that there are descendants of Ambonnie out there running

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Speaker 1: around on the Isle of Palms. Perhaps probably maybe they'll

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Speaker 1: find my tooth. It's that's some booty right there. That

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Speaker 1: some boy. I'll give you some other booty. Short stuff

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Speaker 1: is out. Stuff you should know is a production of

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