Speaker 1: If someone was to like compartmentalize every part of my
Speaker 1: identity onto a map of the United States, maybeing transgender
Speaker 1: would be Rhode Island. It's in that little corner of
Speaker 1: like important things, but it's also really small.
Speaker 2: So what's your taxes?
Speaker 3: Very ahead, Welcome to when You're Invisible. My name is
Speaker 3: Maria Fernanda Dies, but I know not everyone can roll
Speaker 3: there are, so it's also fine to call me Maria.
Speaker 3: When You're Invisible is my love letter to the working
Speaker 3: class and others who are seemingly invisible in our society.
Speaker 3: I hope to build a community here that will inspire
Speaker 3: you to have generous conversations with others that are different
Speaker 3: from you, conversations that might help you see life in
Speaker 3: an entirely different way.
Speaker 4: My name is Daniel Shuhil. I'm a sixteen year old
Speaker 4: transgender boy in Arizona.
Speaker 3: I was excited to talk to Daniel for so many reasons.
Speaker 2: One is his enthusiasm.
Speaker 4: We're ready, We're ready to get cooking.
Speaker 3: Second, he's a teenager. As a kid, I was fortunate
Speaker 3: to be around adults who took me seriously. Today, I
Speaker 3: try to listen to what young people have to say.
Speaker 3: I find their observations fascinating. I love how much they
Speaker 3: surprise me and make me rethink why and how I
Speaker 3: see the world, whether it's through their observations, their questions,
Speaker 3: or their own stories and resilience. I've gotten to know
Speaker 3: a lot of young people through work. I've taught theater,
Speaker 3: classes and activities, and I also tutor students of all
Speaker 3: ages in math, history, Spanish, English, test prep.
Speaker 4: You knew it.
Speaker 2: Do you like school or do you find it boring?
Speaker 4: I like school because I get to see my friends
Speaker 4: and I get to do like jazz band.
Speaker 2: Wait, what do you play?
Speaker 4: I'm learning the upright bass, but I'm not too good yet,
Speaker 4: And in jazz combo, I'm playing the guitar.
Speaker 2: What does like an everyday or an average day look like?
Speaker 4: I wake up, make some breakfast, some cereal, I go
Speaker 4: to school. I have math. I like math. That's a
Speaker 4: good class. Then History, then biotech. It's just like chemistry okay,
Speaker 4: and jazz ben jazz combo of Spanish. Then I come
Speaker 4: home and I eat, and then I'll play my guitar
Speaker 4: for a little bit, and then I play my craft
Speaker 4: and then I go to sleep.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 3: Even though Daniel's just a kid. He's had to grow
Speaker 3: up fast.
Speaker 2: He's had to.
Speaker 3: Think about things that other kids don't have to. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: some people don't just see him as a kid who
Speaker 3: likes video games and music because he's trans. In full transparency,
Speaker 3: this is my first time that I've met a Latin
Speaker 3: trans kid. So some of us are learning together and
Speaker 3: Daniel does a beautiful job of holding space for me.
Speaker 3: And while his trans identity is not his Texas, it's
Speaker 3: not the most important part of who he is, it
Speaker 3: does impact his life and his family's decisions. Like when
Speaker 3: it comes to figuring out where Daniel goes to school,
Speaker 3: they have to think more actively about things like policy, safety,
Speaker 3: and respect.
Speaker 2: I also know you travel far for school. Oh my gosh, yeah,
Speaker 2: what is that journey?
Speaker 4: My parents drive me to a separate district because unlike
Speaker 4: a lot of the other districts, in our school, they
Speaker 4: have gender and sexuality in their non discrimination policy. And
Speaker 4: not only do they have it written down, because some
Speaker 4: districts haven't written down, but some districts don't use them
Speaker 4: or don't know that they have them. And so then
Speaker 4: we've had a lot of other families face like discrimination
Speaker 4: or like pushback with the school even though it's in
Speaker 4: their policy, and so this school has been on our
Speaker 4: site since day one. That's awesome, But as far, it's
Speaker 4: a far drive, and it's annoying because all my friends
Speaker 4: love up there, right, and they're like, Daniel, you want
Speaker 4: to hang out, And I'm like, someone's gonna have to
Speaker 4: drive me the forty minutes.
Speaker 2: What do you do on those car rides?
Speaker 4: We listen to music, We go on musical journeys.
Speaker 2: What kind of music do you like to listen to?
Speaker 4: I like Kimsic Lamar, I've been listening.
Speaker 2: To him more, Hey as you should.
Speaker 4: Then I like the Smiths, It's so great. I also
Speaker 4: like Mariaccia music. Sometimes I really like Radiohead and that's
Speaker 4: my top one.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, radio had a place in my house
Speaker 3: a lot, and like especially when my brothers. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: tell my brother that I'm going to be like, I
Speaker 3: met someone who's.
Speaker 4: Your soul, a kindred soul. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Daniel could choose to just enjoy his life, you know,
Speaker 3: the things he cares about, going to school, trying to
Speaker 3: fit in, focusing on his personal world and well being
Speaker 3: the bubble he lives in. But another big reason I
Speaker 3: wanted to talk to Daniel Is because he's an activist
Speaker 3: and he cares a lot about the world around him
Speaker 3: and making it a better place for everyone, and he's
Speaker 3: been doing that for years already.
Speaker 2: What was it like to speak for the first time
Speaker 2: to like your legislator? And how old are you? And
Speaker 2: how many times have you done it?
Speaker 4: Oh? I can't count that, But I was nine the
Speaker 4: first time I testified. I had written a small testimony
Speaker 4: that was read by one of our representatives on the
Speaker 4: house floor. I remember being really afraid, like really nervous
Speaker 4: because I was like a nine year old, and I
Speaker 4: was like, I really don't want to read this on
Speaker 4: the mic, and I am was like, we can pull
Speaker 4: those strings. So I made this like little scratchy screwbally
Speaker 4: thing on like an hotel notepad, you know, and I
Speaker 4: gave it to our representative and she like read it.
Speaker 4: And I had my little stuffed animal, stuffed otter, and
Speaker 4: so me and Senor Otter stood like watching over as
Speaker 4: my testimony get read, and I remember being like really nervous.
Speaker 4: I was like, whoa, everyone's listening to something I wrote.
Speaker 4: My mom found my first little testimony.
Speaker 2: Can you read it out?
Speaker 4: Loud. Yeah, I'll read it out loud. I haven't read this.
Speaker 4: I actually have no recollection of what it said.
Speaker 2: Great, Okay, we're going to find out together.
Speaker 4: Okay, so I said, I'm knowing different, but it's not
Speaker 4: right for people to not be treated equally. For me,
Speaker 4: I'm safe at school and home, but for others it's different.
Speaker 4: So it's important for truated equal like human beings. Ah,
Speaker 4: nine year old little Daniel preaching out here.
Speaker 3: Daniel may only be sixteen, but he's been on the
Speaker 3: front lines of this issue for nearly half his life.
Speaker 3: Arizona is known as a conservative red state. It's notorious
Speaker 3: for banning Chicano books, for racial profiling against immigrant workers,
Speaker 3: and for a wave of backlash against LGBTQ and women's rights.
Speaker 3: But it is also a region that is incredibly rich
Speaker 3: in Latin culture. I wanted to hear firsthand how Daniel
Speaker 3: pictured his community, to see what spurred him to fight
Speaker 3: for such a complicated place.
Speaker 2: Tell us about where you live.
Speaker 4: I live in southern Arizona. We live in the city
Speaker 4: of South Tucson. What I really like is I we're
Speaker 4: like thirty forty minutes from the border, and so there's
Speaker 4: just like a lot of like Mexican food and like
Speaker 4: culture is very important. We can go like down the
Speaker 4: street and there's like four of Rospilo places, and then
Speaker 4: down the street over here past the church there's my
Speaker 4: favorite little hot dog sand But they always knock on
Speaker 4: me because whenever I go I get I just get
Speaker 4: fun cheese and beans and the like. That's not a
Speaker 4: hot dog. You need to get a hot dog. I'm like,
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna get a hot dog.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's hilarious. Do you have like rapport
Speaker 2: with your go to places?
Speaker 3: This warmth and delight makes me smile and definitely picture
Speaker 3: a different place than what I would imagine just from
Speaker 3: his testimony or the news headlines. Honestly, it reminded me
Speaker 3: a little bit of one of my own homes.
Speaker 2: It reminded me of Mexico. Do love Arizona?
Speaker 4: I feel like I love my little pocket of Arizona.
Speaker 4: Tuissan Metro was like one of the first cities in
Speaker 4: America to have a non discrimination policy, and so then
Speaker 4: it was like a safe haven for a bunch of
Speaker 4: queer people. And so it's become this like very like
Speaker 4: diverse place and it's like super awesome. Ye, Like if
Speaker 4: you go like Phoenix or Scottsdale, then we get a
Speaker 4: little iffy. Are really grateful that right now Arizona has
Speaker 4: a demo kindic governor that's thankfully like blocking out all
Speaker 4: of these anti trans bills that are trying to get past.
Speaker 4: I love Arizona for that.
Speaker 2: Who do you consider your community?
Speaker 4: That was a big one. I had to think about
Speaker 4: that for a second. I was like wow, because I
Speaker 4: feel like I just always say my community, but now
Speaker 4: what is my community? Whoa crazy?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 4: I feel like I have like little pocketed community, like
Speaker 4: I have like my neighborhood community, Like in my where
Speaker 4: we're right here, we're like surrounded by queer poc artists,
Speaker 4: and I think that's cool and I'm like, y'all just
Speaker 4: gotta let me come over so we can do art.
Speaker 4: That'd be so cool. And but then I have like
Speaker 4: my school community, which I feel really grateful for because
Speaker 4: I'm like really happy that my small circle of like
Speaker 4: my grade plus like the little bit o where our
Speaker 4: grades blend, yeah, has been really supportive since I've like
Speaker 4: transitioned those also, like my family, that's my community too.
Speaker 3: Daniel is showing us pieces of a world we may
Speaker 3: not have heard about. Knowing our community and feeling connected
Speaker 3: personally to our neighbors can be vital for creating safe
Speaker 3: and caring spaces on the local level. As happy as
Speaker 3: Daniel and his family are in this artistic, diverse pocket
Speaker 3: of Arizona, they've had to consider what it would mean
Speaker 3: to move out of state, especially during the last election
Speaker 3: cycle when a Democratic candidate for governor was running against
Speaker 3: a very conservative opponent, Katie Hobbs. The Democrat did win,
Speaker 3: by the way, but still in the past few years,
Speaker 3: Arizona's legislature has proposed ignoring pronouns, banning trans kids from bathrooms,
Speaker 3: taking away funding for any any sort of quote unquote
Speaker 3: drag performance, and leaving schools open to lawsuits for having
Speaker 3: LGBTQ spaces.
Speaker 2: For Like, the people who would say, why don't you
Speaker 2: just move, what would you say back, We're.
Speaker 4: Really grateful that our whole family like lives in Tucson
Speaker 4: or at least Phoenix, and so we get a visit.
Speaker 4: Often I feel like some people really forget that people
Speaker 4: are really cemented in culture m hm, Because at least
Speaker 4: in my experience, people who have said that to me
Speaker 4: are like white Americans who have lived here and culture
Speaker 4: can be found everywhere. For them, it's America, you know, Right.
Speaker 4: But I feel like for our meeting, our family lifting
Speaker 4: up everything and taking somewhere else, can we lift it
Speaker 4: up and ticket somewhere else? Like where can my mom
Speaker 4: and my dad rebuild their like art business? We have
Speaker 4: to restart from like scratch, like things like that. You know,
Speaker 4: I feel like there's so many things people forget, Like
Speaker 4: there's a lot of families that just don't have the
Speaker 4: funds to go buy another house or rent out an
Speaker 4: apartment somewhere else.
Speaker 3: Amen on top of real financial considerations, even if they
Speaker 3: were to move, they have to consider what states red
Speaker 3: or blue really have robust protections in place?
Speaker 2: And there's less options than you'd hope.
Speaker 4: You can't just pick up and go somewhere. You have
Speaker 4: to think about where it is safer transgender people. You know,
Speaker 4: where can I go to school safely? Where has safe
Speaker 4: policies for me? Things like that?
Speaker 2: How does that make you feel to have to think
Speaker 2: about that as a kid?
Speaker 4: Oh, something that I get really upset about it because
Speaker 4: some of the kids I go to school with, or
Speaker 4: like some people that I know do not have to
Speaker 4: think about things like that, and sometimes I wish I
Speaker 4: could totally be one of those with us And no,
Speaker 4: I don't really care about politics. I don't get too political.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, that's like ignorance is bliss. But I'm
Speaker 4: also like, no, we all pay attention here to like
Speaker 4: make sure our world's not just like crumble our democracy.
Speaker 3: Daniel is constantly paying attention. By the time I was
Speaker 3: his age, I also felt a lot of responsibility to
Speaker 3: protect the climate, and I was really invested in human rights.
Speaker 3: Talking to Daniel and other young people, it seems like
Speaker 3: that pressure has only grown and intensified, just like the
Speaker 3: channels of information that they are exposed to. I also
Speaker 3: relate to Daniel being frustrated with his classmates because I
Speaker 3: was like that with mine. I didn't think it was
Speaker 3: an option not to care. When you're an in betweener
Speaker 3: and you love people of different and intersecting identities, you
Speaker 3: see the impact of these issues up close. We'll dive
Speaker 3: deeper into the layers of Daniel's identity and how he
Speaker 3: navigates that and how he's being perceived.
Speaker 4: After the break, I find myself having to like step
Speaker 4: around our eggshells when I'm with just like my white
Speaker 4: queer friends who don't always get it, and also the
Speaker 4: same thing with my sister het Mexi.
Speaker 3: Friends stick with us, Welcome back. Sixteen year old Daniel
Speaker 3: sounds so confident and sure of himself, which is something
Speaker 3: I absolutely admire. Universally, teenagers are known for having massive
Speaker 3: insecurities and constantly asking questions about who they are and
Speaker 3: where they're going.
Speaker 2: Accepting yourself is always.
Speaker 3: A journey, and I know for trans folks that story
Speaker 3: can take many forms. I was curious how Daniel came
Speaker 3: to understand himself so fully.
Speaker 2: He's known he was a boy since he.
Speaker 3: Was five or six, and fortunately he had the foundation
Speaker 3: of family and friends who supported him, and that allowed
Speaker 3: him to flourish. Once the earliest memory in your life
Speaker 3: where you felt affirmed, here's.
Speaker 4: A funny story. So when I was like seven, I
Speaker 4: was in like second grade and being like really confused
Speaker 4: about why everyone is being so contradictory to my gender.
Speaker 4: That feels like really known to me, you know, and
Speaker 4: so me and my friends, like I would tell my
Speaker 4: friends at school, right and then coming like a sheet
Speaker 4: and be like, actually, can you guys call me a
Speaker 4: he and they'd be like sure, why not yeah, and
Speaker 4: so it was really funny. It would like try out names.
Speaker 4: There was a class period a math class where I
Speaker 4: was Tony, I love it and I was like by
Speaker 4: the end, I was like, no, I don't think that's
Speaker 4: the one.
Speaker 2: Wait, that's awesome. So when did you settle on Daniel?
Speaker 4: My parents are like what if we pick? And I
Speaker 4: was like, no, no, you guys are not going to pick.
Speaker 4: I'll figure it out. When I picked my name, I
Speaker 4: had to be like ten or eleven. I want to sorry,
Speaker 4: be a little younger. Between nine to eleven. It was
Speaker 4: a big Minecraft YouTube fan. I was watching YouTube and
Speaker 4: it was when dantydm. Do you know who that is? No,
Speaker 4: he's like a Minecraft YouTuber. He's very famous, and so
Speaker 4: I used to watch his videos all the time. And
Speaker 4: one day I think it was like he made like
Speaker 4: a bunch of money and he was on like the
Speaker 4: British news and it was like Daniel Middleton has made
Speaker 4: X amount of dollars on YouTube. So cool, and I
Speaker 4: heard that I was like, whoa, that's the one someone
Speaker 4: As I went to mom, can I be Daniel? And
Speaker 4: she was like.
Speaker 2: Okay, So yeah, I got it. Okay, okay, so that
Speaker 2: is how you got your name.
Speaker 4: From alinecraft YouTuber. Great. But my middle name, which is Alonso,
Speaker 4: is from my grandfather because that's his middle name.
Speaker 2: Oh that's sweet.
Speaker 4: We have one meaningful one.
Speaker 2: Also, what is it like to have supportive parents?
Speaker 3: Look, I know it's crazy that I even have to
Speaker 3: ask what it's like to be affirmed, because unconditional love,
Speaker 3: especially love for your child, should be the norm and
Speaker 3: not the exception.
Speaker 4: I'm very grateful because my parents have given me the
Speaker 4: resources I've needed. They see me as like a boy,
Speaker 4: only they use my correct pronouns, they use my name.
Speaker 4: They create space, they create community for me, and they
Speaker 4: also did it behind a lot of like closed doors.
Speaker 4: That way I wouldn't have to see things like that.
Speaker 4: You know. They came out to my family basically because
Speaker 4: I was like eight nine, Like how am I going
Speaker 4: to face a room full of people like that? You know,
Speaker 4: I'm like a's shy little a Chriel. So they made
Speaker 4: they made the community. They built the space for me,
Speaker 4: and they said that they found a space unsafe and supportive.
Speaker 4: Then they were not in our space, and so I'm
Speaker 4: really grateful for that.
Speaker 3: How's your extended family. Do you feel like you had
Speaker 3: to face anything with them?
Speaker 4: I was told when I was younger, I came out
Speaker 4: to my cousin before anyone else and because she used
Speaker 4: to babysit me, and I was like, I'm actually a boy.
Speaker 4: He should call me a heat and so she was like,
Speaker 4: let's do it. That's awesome, and so at her house
Speaker 4: and with her husband, but they would just call me
Speaker 4: he and I got to play on the like PS four.
Speaker 4: It was awesome. Little did I know that they were like,
Speaker 4: guess what I found out.
Speaker 3: Here's the thing is, like, this is the problem with
Speaker 3: like Latin culture.
Speaker 2: It's the cheese may we love the gossip.
Speaker 3: Daniels and my Latinia. They're different shades, but there's a
Speaker 3: lot of overlap. Latin culture is incredibly loving and at
Speaker 3: the same time is still grappling with some quote unquote
Speaker 3: old ways of thinking. On the one hand, and making
Speaker 3: sure your people are good and happy is paramount. We
Speaker 3: exist for our families. Yet at the same time, there's
Speaker 3: this idea of ge vadis. It's the concept that there's
Speaker 3: a right way.
Speaker 2: Of doing things.
Speaker 3: It's wanting to follow society's rules and caring about your appearance.
Speaker 3: Gender equality is something that's still being figured out in
Speaker 3: Latin culture. The expectations of men and women is still
Speaker 3: pretty rigid in many ways. Often queer sexualities and people
Speaker 3: who are gender nonconforming are still not understood. Their identities
Speaker 3: are seen as a choice. Within the Catholic tradition, some
Speaker 3: people ask how could God be wrong in how.
Speaker 2: They physically made someone?
Speaker 3: But how I see it is the Catholic tradition taught
Speaker 3: me that the body is just the vessel.
Speaker 2: What makes me in the image.
Speaker 3: Of God is my soul, my mind, my spirit, and
Speaker 3: God did not get that wrong, and to me, that's
Speaker 3: why it's crucial to trust others journeys. These ideas are
Speaker 3: really ingrained, So even if someone wants to be more
Speaker 3: open minded and accepting of their friends and family members,
Speaker 3: someone like Daniel might be coming up against how these
Speaker 3: ideas are deeply cemented and take time to unlearn. But
Speaker 3: as a kid up against this, it can feel scary, infuriating,
Speaker 3: and unfair to have to wait for adults to respect
Speaker 3: you and treat you how you deserve to be.
Speaker 4: At my Lightning and Fleen party, which was just about cars,
Speaker 4: not but gender, they thought that was our way of
Speaker 4: coming out, and so they were not happy. It was
Speaker 4: definitely harder me and my mom and my dad. We
Speaker 4: stepped away from both sides of the family for like
Speaker 4: two ish years. A lot of them didn't understand, they
Speaker 4: didn't want to understand for a lot of other good
Speaker 4: chunks of time. And only so many of them have
Speaker 4: come around. And sometimes they like slip up and they
Speaker 4: say the wrong things, and sometimes they say really wrong things.
Speaker 4: You know, in the beginning they are not all for it.
Speaker 4: But I'm grateful that at least a good majority of
Speaker 4: them are.
Speaker 3: Shout out to all the caregivers and parents who have
Speaker 3: been put in in the work. Daniel told me that
Speaker 3: this isn't the case for some of his friends' families.
Speaker 3: Their parents will quote unquote forget that their kid came out,
Speaker 3: refuse to let go of the child they thought they
Speaker 3: were raising, or they think using pronouns is enough and
Speaker 3: don't provide other forms of support. According to the Trevor Project,
Speaker 3: the sad reality is that nearly forty percent of homeless
Speaker 3: youth are LGBTQ kids who have been rejected by their families.
Speaker 3: So what are the ways in which you feel like
Speaker 3: you think people should be supportive. What are the resources
Speaker 3: that you think every queer kid needs or trans kids need.
Speaker 4: I feel like step one is having parents that are
Speaker 4: willing to do the work. Because once you have a
Speaker 4: family or like a space that is going to be
Speaker 4: safe and supportive for you, then everything comes a little
Speaker 4: easier because, for example, my parents they were like, okay,
Speaker 4: we got it. And so that's when we went to school,
Speaker 4: like archs just for a school and had a meeting
Speaker 4: and was like, hey, our kids trans you have to
Speaker 4: accommodate a B and C. And some schools are going
Speaker 4: to be crazy and be like now we're not going
Speaker 4: to do a B and C for you. As that's
Speaker 4: when I'm like, okay, cool, our kid's not going to
Speaker 4: go here no more.
Speaker 3: Daniel feels that the biggest thing to remember is that
Speaker 3: we have to be willing to learn and grow. That
Speaker 3: is often the best form of support.
Speaker 4: Well, let's like talk about it. A lot of like disrespect,
Speaker 4: like from like family, like friends, doesn't come from like hate,
Speaker 4: it comes from ignorance.
Speaker 3: This open attitude of ask me questions, let's talk can
Speaker 3: be so productive and also really draining, especially if there's
Speaker 3: a lot of misinformation or fear mongering surrounding the topic.
Speaker 3: Some of those biases might come out in the questions
Speaker 3: that are being asked.
Speaker 4: I'll have someone like ask me the craziest questions out
Speaker 4: of pure ignorance.
Speaker 3: I'll be like, hey, whoa, can you give an example
Speaker 3: of what you mean by that? Or like a crazy
Speaker 3: question that you've had, like a friend or a family
Speaker 3: member ask you like.
Speaker 4: In third grade, which was when I just started my
Speaker 4: social transition, and there was like it was like twenty fifteen,
Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, and so now we're in like this uprise
Speaker 4: of anti trans missinformation.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And so if I was sick for three days and
Speaker 4: I would come back, kids would genuinely come up to
Speaker 4: me like did you get the surgery yet?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 4: And I was like, I'm eight, and I feel like
Speaker 4: if I was older, I would have been like, that's
Speaker 4: not appropriate to ask people. And I also know, because
Speaker 4: I'm eight.
Speaker 3: Little kids are sponges who absorb all kinds of ideas
Speaker 3: from the world and adults around them. But questions like
Speaker 3: this will be familiar to anyone who's been other And look,
Speaker 3: the reality is, sometimes our biases run so deep we
Speaker 3: are gonna mess up.
Speaker 2: That's part of life. I've been on both sides of this.
Speaker 3: I've been asked overly invasive questions and I've also said
Speaker 3: the wrong thing. And when you mess up, it doesn't
Speaker 3: mean that you should pull away from hard conversations altogether.
Speaker 2: It just means we need.
Speaker 3: To have the wherewithal to realize that maybe a question
Speaker 3: was too private or personal, and to be more receptive
Speaker 3: and kinder next time, because even if it's unintentional, a
Speaker 3: lack of awareness can come off as invasive or callous.
Speaker 3: It can feel like you're turning someone's experience into entertainment.
Speaker 3: The person answering your question might feel vulnerable or hurt.
Speaker 3: I think of one of the tenets of the famous book,
Speaker 3: the Four Agreements, and it's something my mother likes to
Speaker 3: remind me of, which is don't make assumptions. It's hard
Speaker 3: to weed out and notice our assumptions. Get is vital
Speaker 3: in order to have better communication and care.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so weird.
Speaker 3: Like it's funny because I find this even with like
Speaker 3: Latino identity, right, like whenever you're a minority in any way,
Speaker 3: sometimes people ask really inappropriate questions as like the first
Speaker 3: round of things, versus being like, hey, how are you
Speaker 3: Are you okay?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, as simple as that.
Speaker 4: I recently was talking to one of my friends, right,
Speaker 4: and I was like, I me and my other friend
Speaker 4: were on the car. We were talking because both were
Speaker 4: my dad's immigrated here from Mexico, right, okay, And so
Speaker 4: we were talking about that and I was like, no, yeah,
Speaker 4: my dad immigrated here. And then our friend jargon was like, oh,
Speaker 4: did he come here legally or illegally? And I was
Speaker 4: like that's your first thought? Leave me alone?
Speaker 2: Excuse me? Wow, that's so interesting.
Speaker 3: But then also like people don't talk about that, So
Speaker 3: sometimes when people don't ask, sometimes you don't get the opportunity,
Speaker 3: which is like a weird catch twenty two too. If
Speaker 3: they don't ask, you don't get the opportunity to be like, hey,
Speaker 3: that's not a great question, and it's like also a
Speaker 3: little bit of a dangerous question depending on how while
Speaker 3: we know each other.
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: That's what I always mean between ignorance and hate, because
Speaker 4: I feel like a lot of growth happens when I
Speaker 4: talk to like when I have a dialogue with people
Speaker 4: and be like, actually, you shouldn't ask questions like that
Speaker 4: or actually this question sounds comfortable for me to answer,
Speaker 4: but for a lot of other showing people it might
Speaker 4: not be. A part of me feels grateful that at
Speaker 4: least they're asking me. Like some points, I can get
Speaker 4: upset about it, but alsotimes I just think it's funny sometimes.
Speaker 4: And maybe that's my brain compartmentalizing crazy things happening or something.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but like I sometimes find it funny
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh, dude, you're so silly.
Speaker 3: I love that Daniel has the ability to bring lightheartedness
Speaker 3: to a serious conversation while he's used to having to
Speaker 3: represent so many groups of people. I'm sure it can
Speaker 3: be lonely and finding spaces to call home is important.
Speaker 3: Do you get to hang out with a lot of
Speaker 3: other queer and trans kids or is it like a
Speaker 3: specific case did you have to like create and build
Speaker 3: the community. Oh?
Speaker 4: Actually, my parents totally did that for me. They totally
Speaker 4: built queer youth around me at school. We build it ourselves.
Speaker 4: But my parents went and found a family support group
Speaker 4: and there was like three o their families and there
Speaker 4: were like thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and I was like eight.
Speaker 3: That's kind of great, though, It's like then you have
Speaker 3: like older siblings too, like in certain ways, So when
Speaker 3: have you felt seen Tell me the.
Speaker 4: First day we went to this support group, it's me
Speaker 4: and all the older kids, but they're really cool and
Speaker 4: we got to hang out and play like goldfish and
Speaker 4: Food's Bone. And then by the end of it, my
Speaker 4: mom was like, oh, Daniel, it's time to go, and
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, buy my new friends peace out.
Speaker 4: And so we left and on our drive back was like, so,
Speaker 4: what was it like being with a bunch of other
Speaker 4: trans kids? And I was like they were trans, ay,
Speaker 4: And I feel like that moment was like very significant
Speaker 4: because I mean, and my family are in the middle
Speaker 4: of this like really hard time with like family and school.
Speaker 4: So in a lot of spaces, I was like the
Speaker 4: trans kid. Yeah, but in this space I didn't have
Speaker 4: to be. I feel like when I look back on it,
Speaker 4: I was like, there was like a sense of like
Speaker 4: knowing and understanding each other. Yeah, I didn't get to
Speaker 4: have yet, And so then experiencing it was really awesome.
Speaker 3: It's such a great feeling when you feel at ease
Speaker 3: and at home. But being an in between her means
Speaker 3: fitting in will always be multi layered. For Daniel, even
Speaker 3: being with trans and queer friends, he may not feel
Speaker 3: fully understood because he's Latino, and likewise, with his cisgender
Speaker 3: and heterosexual Latin friends, he may feel like his queerness
Speaker 3: isn't fully seen. What is it like I like to
Speaker 3: be queer and Latino in Arizona?
Speaker 4: I would say it's pretty tough on the low, actually
Speaker 4: not even on the low, on the up high. Trying
Speaker 4: to find the crossroads is one of the most difficult
Speaker 4: parts of it because sometimes if I hang out with
Speaker 4: some of my white and queer friends, being like white
Speaker 4: and queer versus being like bipocking queer is a very
Speaker 4: different experience, and I find myself having to like step
Speaker 4: around eggshells when I'm with just like my white queer
Speaker 4: friends who don't always get it, and also the same
Speaker 4: thing with my sister hed Mexi friends.
Speaker 3: I also remember you told me a story where your
Speaker 3: white queer friends were like, why are you being so ghetto?
Speaker 2: Or like, why do you look ghetto?
Speaker 4: I were like a value shirt with the chain and
Speaker 4: some pants and they were like, hen you you look
Speaker 4: like a gangster, and I was like, you don't say
Speaker 4: that to me.
Speaker 3: I can relate when you're white passing. The days you
Speaker 3: don't pass as white are days that you especially pay
Speaker 3: the consequences for With hurtful jokes and assumptions. The stereotypes
Speaker 3: come out, and people feel like they get a free
Speaker 3: pass to say something since you're so obviously not simulating.
Speaker 3: When you're alone, the only one that becomes even more
Speaker 3: the case. Having to vocalize boundaries is something Daniel and
Speaker 3: everyone who has some sort of multi layered background has
Speaker 3: had to do, even with loved ones, no matter how
Speaker 3: hard or seemingly insignificant. Something Daniel and I have in
Speaker 3: common is that we're proud of our Latino roots, and
Speaker 3: neither of us have backed away or hidden them, which
Speaker 3: can make you feel both connected and isolated. This sense
Speaker 3: of standing up for your full self is what Daniel
Speaker 3: brings to his activism more when we come back from
Speaker 3: this break and we're back having been in the political
Speaker 3: arena testifying since he was nine, Daniel has dealt with
Speaker 3: all the ups and downs of talking to adults in power.
Speaker 3: When he first started, I do.
Speaker 4: Remember I feeling like really excited and like empowered. Afterwards, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: like all these people actually listened.
Speaker 3: Now Daniel's already a seasoned activist at the age of sixteen,
Speaker 3: and a lot has changed over time.
Speaker 2: What's it like doing it now? How do you feel now?
Speaker 4: Like now? When I feel invisible is mostly like when
Speaker 4: I have to go testify or when I have to
Speaker 4: go meet with people the government official represent officials that
Speaker 4: surprisingly you would have thought would have been it would
Speaker 4: have been an opposite. But that's really when I face
Speaker 4: a lot of transphobia. And that's really when I face
Speaker 4: a lot of discrimination and things like that, when people,
Speaker 4: when our own representatives who are there to protect me
Speaker 4: and represent me right, end up flipping that on its head,
Speaker 4: and in all actuality, they're putting me in more danger
Speaker 4: than I was before. It's really the meaning. It's really
Speaker 4: disheartening because they just ignore a lot of what you say.
Speaker 3: So much effort and energy goes into these meetings, and
Speaker 3: then while Daniel is testifying, suddenly the subject will be changed,
Speaker 3: and unfortunately he ends up feeling unheard.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh. A lot of the times the representatives
Speaker 4: try to be like, oh cutesye I love kids, blah
Speaker 4: blah blah blah, and they ask really the meaning questions.
Speaker 4: One time, I was like the only reason I've been
Speaker 4: successful in school and been able to keep these good
Speaker 4: grades and I live that happy teenage life is because
Speaker 4: I was supported my school and I mentioned that I
Speaker 4: was in jazz combo. One of the representatives like, oh,
Speaker 4: what do you play? I was like, that's not what
Speaker 4: we're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: They'll ask things like that and then they'll say yes
Speaker 4: and they'll pass these harmful, discriminatory bills. I feel like
Speaker 4: that's a lot of times when I feel unseen. All
Speaker 4: they see is some little kid. What is he gonna know?
Speaker 3: Despite these continuous letdowns, he does this work because he
Speaker 3: knows he's part of something bigger and it has to
Speaker 3: be done.
Speaker 4: They're going to vote and why they're going to vote,
Speaker 4: and a lot of time testimony doesn't like matter to them,
Speaker 4: which is like really annoying and like infuriating. But I
Speaker 4: feel like it's also really important at the same time,
Speaker 4: because if you're on the record, you see how many people,
Speaker 4: like people that like historians go through this stuff, and
Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't know, y'all are going to see that.
Speaker 4: There was a lot of trans people who did not
Speaker 4: like these bills, men who strongly like were like, please
Speaker 4: do not past these bills and they did it anyways,
Speaker 4: you know, right, they know what they're doing, and it's
Speaker 4: import that we see that they're know what they're doing
Speaker 4: instead of treating them like children that don't know what
Speaker 4: they're doing.
Speaker 3: Daniel doesn't feel like he's only being failed on the
Speaker 3: state level or only by Republicans. Our conversation happened well
Speaker 3: before the year's presidential election, but Daniel still had concerns
Speaker 3: regardless of what party was in power. He's not only
Speaker 3: being let down when it comes to trans rights. He
Speaker 3: believes all youth need to have a bigger say when
Speaker 3: it comes to the policies that affects their future.
Speaker 4: I feel like a lot of times we get stuck
Speaker 4: having to settle for people like politicians, people that say
Speaker 4: they care, but also like don't. I'm grateful Joe Biden
Speaker 4: supports trans kids, but he also won't ensure a safe
Speaker 4: world for us in the future like climate change, yeah,
Speaker 4: or a police reform, And so it feels contradictory when
Speaker 4: you want to love and protect like the youth in
Speaker 4: your country, especially trans youth, but you also won't ensure
Speaker 4: that they'll have a safe world in the future.
Speaker 2: What do you wish you had more control.
Speaker 4: Over that's a big question. What the heck?
Speaker 2: I know, sorry, I.
Speaker 4: Mean if I could, like, if I could play out
Speaker 4: them and be like, are you gonna go over here?
Speaker 4: You're going to do all that? I wish I could
Speaker 4: just like make it a lot easier for like younger trans.
Speaker 3: Kids, because trans kids are up against a lot. There's
Speaker 3: a whole political machine trying to prevent them from living
Speaker 3: their lives freely and fully. The bathroom bill is a
Speaker 3: perfect example. It's at the core of the anti trans movement,
Speaker 3: and in some way, fighting over bathrooms can seem frivolous
Speaker 3: and unnecessary, but it's a tactic of oppression that has
Speaker 3: been used for generations. It's used to control a person's
Speaker 3: ability to be part of public life. It's a tactic
Speaker 3: we've seen before in the civil rights movements and the
Speaker 3: Chicano rights movement. Now trans kids are the latest targets
Speaker 3: in the mission to marginalize people. Daniel wants trans people
Speaker 3: to be seen as more than just body parts in
Speaker 3: their full humanity, and his activism centers that so beautifully.
Speaker 3: Just look at trans prom.
Speaker 4: Trance prom was like a rally me and all my
Speaker 4: other friends put together and it was a big protest
Speaker 4: dance on the National Mall in Washington, d C.
Speaker 3: Over two hundred people attended from across seventeen states. The
Speaker 3: event made national headlines.
Speaker 4: We marshally Supreme Court, and the party did not end there.
Speaker 4: We kept dancing to our representatives all in there that
Speaker 4: are colicking up some hateful legislation and they're stuck in
Speaker 4: their office chair and they look out the window and
Speaker 4: riving a party. But guess what, they're not invited. Boohoo.
Speaker 3: In the face of fear tactics that often paint trans
Speaker 3: people as scary, trans prom.
Speaker 2: Is a beautiful display of a joyful.
Speaker 3: Resistance and existence. How do you stay inspired and how
Speaker 3: do you stay positive? How do you not get discouraged
Speaker 3: by like what's happening?
Speaker 4: I feel like it's like a case by case thing again,
Speaker 4: because for me sometimes if I'm posted somewhere and I
Speaker 4: get hay comments, like, I start kind of giggling, Like
Speaker 4: I was posted on like a government Instagram page and
Speaker 4: they were like interviews with trans kids and their parents.
Speaker 4: It was a really great piece. I really liked it.
Speaker 4: But someone commented for my gas prices now this, and
Speaker 4: I was like I don't know how I'm tied together
Speaker 4: with your gas prices. I'm really sorry that's happening. It's
Speaker 4: not my fault, right, I want the lower too, Dude.
Speaker 2: It's funny that you talk about like how much you laugh.
Speaker 2: It's like you cultivate a sense of like play and joy,
Speaker 2: Like you look at things with a lot of joy.
Speaker 2: Is that true?
Speaker 4: I'd say so. My friends are like Daniel, you walk
Speaker 4: around the world with so much joy, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 4: I do. I feel like when I say sometimes I
Speaker 4: feel kind of snabby about it because I know a
Speaker 4: lot of other trans people don't see it with this
Speaker 4: much joy. And I feel like it's because I've had
Speaker 4: really supportive parents, and I've been supported at school, and
Speaker 4: I'm in a state right now that thankfully rest assured
Speaker 4: for the next two years, there's not going to be
Speaker 4: like any anti trans bills being passed unless they bypass
Speaker 4: the governor's veto. But like, we're in this safe bubble
Speaker 4: and I've been able to cultivate my own confidence.
Speaker 3: Hearing Daniel say that he feels guilty over his joy
Speaker 3: breaks my heart because joy is something that should be
Speaker 3: present in every child.
Speaker 2: It's life.
Speaker 3: But Daniel knows that these circumstances that helped him feel
Speaker 3: safe and happy are not afforded to everyone. What's something
Speaker 3: that you think would make the world a better place
Speaker 3: if everyone did it.
Speaker 4: This is gonna sound so corny that if people actually
Speaker 4: abided by the Golden rule, treat others the way they
Speaker 4: want you want to be treated. I still feel like
Speaker 4: I wish people listened more, being a good listener and
Speaker 4: being willing to grow, and being willing to accept and
Speaker 4: set boundaries, being like a cantering person, and not just
Speaker 4: like caring about like people around you, but like Karen
Speaker 4: about like the world around them. That just been good
Speaker 4: but dumb south Park quote of when Carvin was like,
Speaker 4: what's the difference between gods and emos? And he was like,
Speaker 4: emos cry about themselves and goths cry about the world.
Speaker 4: And I think that's so funny, So.
Speaker 2: You want to cry about the world.
Speaker 3: Hearing this South Park reference after a deep moment is
Speaker 3: a perfect reminder that Daniel is still just a sixteen
Speaker 3: year old and also very human. We oscillate from serious
Speaker 3: topics to silly random references, but ultimately his message is
Speaker 3: so genuine. Have love for the world around you. Our
Speaker 3: youth understands the world they are inheriting, and they wish
Speaker 3: to root it in good, accepting, loving, peaceful policies. I
Speaker 3: hope through this conversation we listen closely and start helping
Speaker 3: them create better spaces for their future and their present.
Speaker 2: Next week, we'll.
Speaker 3: Be traveling to another red state, one that often gets
Speaker 3: ignored and I feel like we weren't taught much about
Speaker 3: West Virginia. West Virginia is home to some very quintessential
Speaker 3: American workers, coal miners. Coal miners are proudly all we've
Speaker 3: got asked for is to be traded brout and give
Speaker 3: knowledge day's work for knowledge day's pay. We'll be talking
Speaker 3: with three wonderful unionized coal miners about their experiences and
Speaker 3: thoughts on what their community needs to survive. Thank you
Speaker 3: so much for listening to When You're Invisible. Please leave
Speaker 3: us a rating and a review to let us know
Speaker 3: what you think. You can find this episode and future
Speaker 3: ones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 3: get your podcasts. When You're Invisible is a production of
Speaker 3: iHeart Podcasts and myke Gudura podcast Network. I'm your creator
Speaker 3: and host, Maria Fernanda Vies. Our story editor is Dylan Hoyer.
Speaker 3: This season was produced by ME with additional production from
Speaker 3: Dylan Hoyer. Sound designed by Dylan Hoyer with additional support
Speaker 3: from ME, Mixing and mastering by Laurence Stump.
Speaker 2: Original theme music by Tony Bruno.
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Anna Stump and Gisel Frances and
Speaker 3: special thanks to our Lean Santana