1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, welcome back to the Bob West That's podcast. 2 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: My guest today is truly a llegend. This Blackwellholm Island 3 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: Records has a new autobiography, The Islander. Chris. Great to 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: have you on the podcast. So, first and foremost, where 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: exactly are you right now? I'm in Jamaica, Yes, but 6 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: you own multiple properties in Jamaica, correct, No, just a couple, 7 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: two or three different properties. The main one is Golden Eye, 8 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: which Ian Fleming owned originally. And what is the status 9 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: of Golden Eyed today and how is it different from 10 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: when Ian owned it? Well, when Ian owned it too 11 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: was just one house. And when he uh pass my 12 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: mother looked after the house for a bit, waiting for 13 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: his son to come of age and take the ownership. 14 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: But sadly his father his son committed suicide and so 15 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: the the house just came on the market and my 16 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: mother asked me if I would go out and try 17 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: and buy it. And I was a little short of 18 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: the cash at the moment at the time, but the 19 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: person I knew had some cash it was about early 20 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: because I just paid him some fat royalties. So I 21 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: told him that he should go and see it because 22 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: it's a great property and he should have a look 23 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: and see if he liked it. And he went, but 24 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: he said it wasn't his kind of thing. He was 25 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: more street as it were, so he passed on it, 26 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: and so I eventually voted. Now you also got involved 27 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: in real estate in Miami South? How did that come 28 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,279 Speaker 1: to pass? That came to pass because I flew down 29 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: to Miami to watch a new singer that had come 30 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: from Detroit and she was going to do a I 31 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: have I have a sort of video done of her, 32 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: and so I went down and I flew into Miami 33 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: and then I went and stayed at the Fronto Lu Hotel. 34 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: But I don't really like big hotel that. I didn't 35 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: like it at all. So I said, I want to 36 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: get out of here, and I rented a car and 37 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: drove south. And when I drove south, but by bit 38 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: it became more and more funky and more and more 39 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: broken up and everything, and I couldn't believe it. Here's 40 00:02:53,840 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: this incredible beach, incredible location, and everything was derelict, and 41 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: I just couldn't believe it. So I wandered around and 42 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: and saw a couple of different places that I thought 43 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: i'd love to buy that, and so that's basically what 44 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: I did. I bought a place called the Marlin. And 45 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: then in um in Miami at that time was somebody 46 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: called Barbara Julniki who was very super talented designer, creative lady, 47 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: and she was in Miami and I asked her if 48 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: if she could help me and design a little um 49 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, a little sort of hotel, and and she did, 50 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: and it was adorable. It really looked just fantastic, and 51 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: very quickly it started to get people coming to it 52 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: a lot. And then I put a studio in it, 53 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: and and off we were really great. So what drove 54 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: people to the hotel? Did you saved all your friends? 55 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: Did you put the word out or just people drove 56 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: by into how great it was. I think I think 57 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: it's sort of a bit of both. You know, I 58 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: spoke about a lot about it, tell people about it, 59 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: because it was so extraordinary that, you know, you couldn't 60 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: get a cab to take take take you out there. 61 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: It's very very difficult. It was at a time. It 62 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: was a time soon after remember when Castro sent a 63 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: whole lot of um cumans to to Florida or something, 64 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: and there was a country. Remember what happened, but I 65 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: know it was a kind of chaos and so no, 66 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: but nobody really wanted to go to South Beach, Absolutely 67 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: not at that time. So you know, this has become 68 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: a thing of having studios in a hotel. Is that 69 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 1: actually marketing? Or does that really work? Having a studio 70 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: in a hotel? Do you know? It works? It works 71 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: because you know you've got you can you know in 72 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: the studio, you can get stressed out in the studio 73 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: and you really want to sort of take a break 74 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: and just go and have a nap for a bit, 75 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: and so in that regard it really works. Now you 76 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: ultimately own multiple properties in South Beach. I ended up 77 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: earning about eight, eight or nine of them, eight or nine, 78 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: but ultimately you sold them all. That was a motivation 79 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: to sell them because they had a law in Miami 80 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: at that time that if there was if there was 81 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: any stores coming off the eastern coast of Africa, that 82 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: one should already start and canceled bookings and cancel all 83 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: kinds of things because that could turn into a huge 84 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: which hurricane and cause chaos. So uh, that just didn't 85 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: make any sense to me. I mean, you know, hurricanes 86 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: don't come every week, they don't even come every month. 87 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: They come now and again. But what would happen is 88 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: that we would still have to do that. We'd have 89 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: to let all the staff go, we'd have to cancel 90 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: the bookings, we have to close the hotel. And I 91 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: thought that just makes no sense at us. So I left. 92 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: And did you get out at the right time financially? Um? 93 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: I say, okay, okay. It wasn't that I was trying 94 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: to make a bag of money on it. I was 95 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: just wanting to get out of it at that time. 96 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: And it was somebody else who was very interested in 97 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: the latest hotel I did. They were called the Tides, 98 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: and that was the one which really attracted a buyer. 99 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: And and that's what that's what happened. So he bought 100 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: the Tides and or they on the hotels. And when 101 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: you own those hotels and presently your own golden eye, 102 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: how hands on or you were you mostly in the 103 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: design construction phase or when it comes to actually running 104 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: the hotel, where you just pass that off to someone else. 105 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:27,119 Speaker 1: The design, design construction phase really is where I spent 106 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: a lot of time because it was great in Jamaica. 107 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: It was great land that was sort of had not 108 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: been used, and it was a great It was a 109 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: great opportunity to build something on that land because it 110 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: was right on the water and it had a kind 111 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: of lagoon in the middle of it, and everything was 112 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: really beautiful. So at this point in time, is most 113 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: of your money tied up in Golden Eye or you 114 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: pretty diversified, because certainly in your book you talk about financially, uh, 115 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: periods of great success and then other periods were scratching part. Yes, definitely. 116 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: Throughout my life has been up and down all the time. 117 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: Just similarly, you know, it has been nothing slow and 118 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: steady and solid. It's been up and downe And so 119 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: at this late date, how are you doing financially? Um, 120 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: not too bad considering you know what's going on in 121 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: the world right now. Not too bad. People really like 122 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: five really like a girl and I and I didn't 123 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: mention Fireflyer. Is that place really close to a Golden 124 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: I called five Flyer where nol Coward lived. And that's 125 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: a beautiful property, which is um, you know, adjacent to 126 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: where we are, and it's about a thousand on feet 127 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: up and it's that's really beautiful. But most of the 128 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: time right now, I'm spending it tonight. So I grew 129 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: up on the East Coast, and I remember in the 130 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: sixties Jamaica was a place that people went on a 131 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: holiday and they bought property there, and it was all 132 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: beach and vacation orient And then of course in the seventies, 133 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: uh to a great degree, as a result of your work, 134 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:28,599 Speaker 1: a completely different picture of Jamaica comes across. What is 135 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: Jamaica like today? There's Kingston, but there's a beach. Give 136 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: us a feel for the country. Well, I think Jamaica 137 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: is grace at the moment. I think Jamaica has good 138 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: management now. Really in general, I think it's doing really, 139 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: really quite well. And it's it doesn't sort of markets 140 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 1: a huge amount, but it's a it's definitely markets. The 141 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: the hotels are available, and there are a lot of 142 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: hotels in Jamaica in different locations. There's so many different 143 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: parts of Jamaica which are uniquely different. You feel like 144 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: you're in a another island. Um because you know, some 145 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: some of the some of the land in Jamaica goes 146 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: up to seven thousand feet and some m hm. So 147 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: it's it's very very you know. And then you go 148 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: into the mountains, you can stop by where the people 149 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: are growing coffee, you know, and get buy some coffee 150 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: from them, and you know, it's it's a it's a 151 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: great great countries. It's full of life. Okay, to what 152 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: degree do the city and the locals interact with the 153 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: beaches and the tourist areas, um, well, some I mean 154 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: some people, some people love to go to the beach, 155 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: go to swim, and some of them, some of them 156 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: really don't really care too much about it. They prefer 157 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: to go in the hills, or in the or in 158 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: the pastures or you know the country part in internal. 159 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: So Jamaica just has so much variety literally that you know, 160 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: you can you can spend a day driving across Jamaica 161 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: and you see so many different different things different firstly, 162 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: you know, different people, different different sort of towns and cities. Everything. 163 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: It's it's it's very different, and it's very it's very 164 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: I didn't know. It's kind of fun. You know, the 165 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: people have fun. The people. The people have a strong 166 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: kind of character, but strong personality, and there's you feel 167 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: that energy from the people. I certainly do, and I 168 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: think I think most people do who come and visit. Okay, 169 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: certainly a couple of decades ago, Jamaica had a reputation 170 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 1: as being dangerous. Is it dangerous today or only dangerous 171 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: in certain areas? Well that in that period, which was 172 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 1: the seventies the late seventies, there was a lot of 173 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: political problems, you know, and so anti American or pro 174 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: American or pro Castrow, you know, there was a lot 175 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: of that going on at that time, and that's split 176 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: the country a little bit, and so that was not 177 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: a good time. And there was there was a lot 178 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: of problems then. But it's not like that now. It's 179 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: not like that now. It's much more settled. Okay, So 180 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: you're growing up in Jamaica. Are you living the life 181 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: of a coddled rich kid? Are you integrating with the locals? 182 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: What was your life like? Well, I grew up, I 183 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: was you know, I was born in London and I 184 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: arrived in Jamaica when I was about six months old 185 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: and then came by sea, and I grew up in 186 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: great luxury. Really the house that I grew up in 187 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: was you know, a big house and lots of stuff 188 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: and it was, you know, very luxurious in a way. 189 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: But the problem was that I was sick all the time. 190 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: I had very bad asthma, and so really I didn't 191 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: spend any time with other children, or didn't go to 192 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: any parties, or didn't go to anything much. Pretty much 193 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: was just stayed in in in one place. So at 194 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: what age did you end up going to school in 195 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: the UK and what's that experience like. Well, I was 196 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: sent to education in England mainly because my father's mother, 197 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: I was a Catholic, and she insisted that my father 198 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: have me educated as a Catholic. So I went to 199 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: a Catholic school which was miserable. It was in London, 200 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: just outside London, between London and with Windsor near a river, 201 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: so the weather was just about the worst weather for 202 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: somebody who had asked me the last thing you need 203 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: to have is a damn wet ah, you know environment. 204 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: And I was very sick there. And also I didn't 205 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: get on with them there and they didn't get on 206 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: with me. Didn't work at all. Well, I was only 207 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: there really for one one and a half terms. I 208 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: got fired because I asked if my dog go to 209 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: heaven and they said, of course, do come here to 210 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: have and they took me just to leave school and 211 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: you went back to Jamaica. Did you go back to school? 212 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: We're done with school. I went back to Jamaica and 213 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: I was at school for one term at the school 214 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: in Jamaica. Then I was sent back to England and 215 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: on this occasion it was two Broadstairs in Kent, which 216 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: is a much more healthy environment right on the sea, 217 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: and that was much better. I enjoyed that. I enjoyed 218 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: that that period very much, of course, at Peter's Court 219 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: and in broad Stairs, Kent. And then from that I 220 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: was able to get into posh school called Harrow, and 221 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: again got into that school only because my family, um 222 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: Blackwell family started acrossing Blackwell, which was a big sort 223 00:15:54,480 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: of food firm back in my day, and and there 224 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: are offices were very close to Harrow, so the you 225 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: know that that family were embedded in in Harrow school 226 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: as it were. So I went to Harrow and I 227 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: didn't really do too well there. Um, I didn't really 228 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: and I didn't really do too there at all. In fact, 229 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: I was sort of not exactly fired, but it was 230 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: suggested that I might be happier elsewhere. Okay, so you're 231 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: going to school, what kind of kid you are? Are you? 232 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: Are you a ring leader, you're a loner? Your sports person? 233 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: What we like? Uh? Probably none of those that are 234 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: not not? Not Really, I wasn't. I wasn't a big troublemaker. 235 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: I didn't think I was. I got into trouble there 236 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: because I used to go down and by liquor and 237 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: cigarettes and self to the other kids, which I never 238 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: touched liquor was cigarettes personally, but I used to do that, 239 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: and I I got caught on that, and it was 240 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: suggested that I might be happier elsewhere if I moved 241 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 1: from there. So, unless they were, I was sixteen, I think. 242 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: And did you have any more schooling after that? Y? 243 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: M hm. And you come from a prestigious, wealthy family. 244 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: What do they think about their son who is not 245 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: really achieving in school and doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Well, 246 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: my mother was always hoping. She was very good. She 247 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: was always hoping that then you know, improve of it, 248 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: and she was really helpful. My father wasn't so on 249 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: top of it, as it were. He was somewhat of 250 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: a wild man, and he was he was great, but 251 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,479 Speaker 1: he was and term he wasn't sort of chasing me 252 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: up or giving me a hard time or anything. So 253 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: my mom was the one who was sort of in charge. 254 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: So you come back to Jamaica, you're not going to school, 255 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: what do you do? Trying to find something to do 256 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: different things. One of the things was I was trying 257 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: to bring in some scooters. I bought some scooters in 258 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: England to sell in Jamaica. And I did that for 259 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: a little bit, and then I did some I got 260 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: a job working in real estate, so I worked in 261 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: real estate for a little bit. M hm. And what 262 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: else did I do? Just just the kind of things 263 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: you'd expect. It's like an opportunity to do for something 264 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: and you kind of like it. You just kind of 265 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: join it and get involved in it, I guess. And 266 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: m h. That's that's really what what I was, what 267 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: I was doing, and the thing which really pulled me in, 268 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: of course, it was music because at Harrow. When I 269 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: was at Harrow, I made friends with somebody who really 270 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: had a great music collection. He had the music right 271 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: from the sort of earliest period, New Orleans and music. 272 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: And for a long time I was addicted to two 273 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: music from New Orleans and and and jazz for sure. 274 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: I just love I just love that. And so when 275 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 1: I was in Jamaica this time, later on, I started 276 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:50,199 Speaker 1: to go to see shows and things. And then, you know, 277 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: one day, as said to I think I'd probably had 278 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: a couple of drinks, it said to the band after 279 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: they had finished playing. I said, oh, well, I think 280 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: you guys were great. I'd love to record you guys, 281 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: you know, And I didn't know how to record anybody. 282 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about it. I just liked their 283 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: music at all. So a couple of days later, you know, 284 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: a couple of them passed by and said, well, anything 285 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,399 Speaker 1: happening about this recording? And I said, oh, I'm sorry, yeah, 286 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: well not definitely, definitely going to do it. Do it tomorrow. 287 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 1: So that's what I did, and I rented the car 288 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: the next day, van Volkswagen Van. And at that time 289 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: I was teaching water skiing. That was my job that 290 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: I'd made god for myself as a water ski instructor 291 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: at the Halfmoon Hotel, and which is where the band 292 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: was playing. So when I drove into town, I went 293 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: to the studio. I knew the person who owned the studio, 294 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,959 Speaker 1: and we went in and then the band played the 295 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: first tune and then they all looked up at me, 296 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to look. I didn't know 297 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: what to do. I was and I just had no 298 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: idea what to do. I couldn't believe that I was 299 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: actually just sitting there and hearing this music they made. 300 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: And so the leader of the band was blind, and 301 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: he asked me, he said that would you like us 302 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: to do it again? And then said yeah, okay, and 303 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: he started playing again. And then when he started playing again, 304 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: I knew that that's what I wanted to do the 305 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: rest of man, Okay, this entrepreneurial spirit, where did it 306 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: come from? I don't know. I really didn't know. I 307 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: don't know. Particularly I my mother's family. They were in 308 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: the you know, bananas and coconuts, the steets and and 309 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: and the wrong business too. In fact, I was supposed 310 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: to inherit the wrong business. Um, but my two uncles 311 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: quarreled and tell apart, and and so the rom got 312 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: sold to someone else, and um, I found myself with 313 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, that was not going to be in the 314 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: roun business. So that I remember when it happened, I 315 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: was kind of I wasn't hugely upset because I was 316 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: already embedded in music. You know, and hanging around with 317 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: musicians and and you know, and working with people and 318 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: coming trying to come up with ideas and putting together 319 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: bands and things like that. Did you ever inherit any 320 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: money from either side of your family? But by time 321 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: it came, by time they died, was it all gone? 322 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: H By the time they died, it was, yes, it 323 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: was pretty much gone. Pretty much gone. Um, pretty much gone. 324 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: My my my mother was was was fine, you know, 325 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: she had a nice home Jamaica, and and it was 326 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: but but the Linda family which was the name of 327 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: the family, which were the run people, it sort of 328 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: collapsed and in that and that at that time. And 329 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 1: so did I say, I was just from from from 330 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: then on? I mean I was just in vote in music, 331 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 1: you know, I was an addict. So how much did 332 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: it cost to make that record? And how successful was it? 333 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: And how did you sell it? The first record? Yeah, 334 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: the one with the blind pianists? Well, uh, how much 335 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: does it costs? Oh, less than a thousand dollars lessen yeah, 336 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: lessen five? Everything. It wasn't It wasn't most The main 337 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: expense was flying up to New York too to get 338 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: the album made and get it mastered, made, and then 339 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: broke back to Jamaica. And then I get got the 340 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: manufactured in Jamaica and the pressing plant and so the 341 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: records at the hotel and did you make your money back? 342 00:24:51,520 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: Was it profitable or no? Not not profitable. That's I 343 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: knew that's what I wanted to do. You know, there 344 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: was no doubt that that's what I wanted to do 345 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: in my life. It was for sure. What was the 346 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: next step? Then, Well, the next step was that I'd 347 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: go and go too shows. When there were shows that 348 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: would have happen in cinemas. Cinemas would would you know, 349 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: run a kind of a show where somebody would come 350 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: out and lead the show, and and they would have 351 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: booked three or four different bands or different individual singers 352 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: or whatever for the show. And so I went to 353 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: one of those and there was this guy saying and 354 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: I thought, my god, this guy has got a really 355 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: good voice. His voice is very much like Brook Benton. 356 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: At that time, Brook Benton was one of my very 357 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: favorite artists. And I listened to it and I really 358 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: liked it. And and when the show was over, I 359 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: went backstage and I went to see him and they said, oh, 360 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: I'd like, I'd like to record you know, I think 361 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: you sound really good. You sound like And there was 362 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: another singer around just who came up and said, well 363 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: what about me? And then another person came around and 364 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: said what about and and so I ended up recording 365 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: those three guys. And the first guy was a guy 366 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: called Laura Ankin, and I put I put his art 367 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: was called Boogie in My Bones, and it went to 368 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: number one in Jamaica. And then I put out the 369 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: other guy's record and it went to number one a 370 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: couple of weeks after that, and then released the other 371 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: record and that went to number one. And the reason 372 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: these records all went to number one is not because 373 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: they were masterpieces or anything. It was more because Jamaicans 374 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:18,239 Speaker 1: were hearing Jamaican's singing um rather than singing Calypso's or um. 375 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: You know, cultural music. They were they were they were 376 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: they were sort of hearing music as if it might 377 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: have been coming from America a bit something like that. 378 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: So that's really how it started and continued to grow. 379 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: I mean, all the records I put out really did well. 380 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: I mean it was amazing. Uh And as I say, 381 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: but it's just because of the reason I just gave 382 00:27:54,520 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: you because it was, um, Jamaican's listen to Jamaican's there. 383 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: And then when things started to expand was that when 384 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: England started to want the records from Jamaican. So I 385 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: used to shipp them to a guy who had the 386 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: jazz label in England who he released them for me 387 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: and they sold in England. So then as we were 388 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: now in nineteen sixty one, um in nineteen six two 389 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: is when Jamaica became independent, and in view of my complexion, 390 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: I thought, well, maybe that was the time to go 391 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: to so so UM, I went to England and I 392 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: spoke to all the other DJs and sound system guys 393 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: and producers and everybody and said, you know, I'm going 394 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: to England. I'm going to you know, make these This 395 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: music happened in England, and um, all the people kind 396 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: of supported me in Jamaica, which was which was great. 397 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: Unless they supported me, I mean, they'd send their recordings 398 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: for me and I put them out and I had 399 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: the right. The best time in England was just driving 400 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: around the periphery of London in the areas where that 401 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: Jamaicans lived and visiting different little record shops here and 402 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: there and I was loving every minute of it. I 403 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: had just a little Mini Cooper and I was whipping around, 404 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: you know, and it was just that it was just 405 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: fantastic because it was something that I loved doing, and 406 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: here it was. It was coming alive and people were, 407 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: you know, buying them. The worst damn thing happened was 408 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,239 Speaker 1: when one large stock called Broadmeats it was called at 409 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: that time. They had a berry and somebody some few 410 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: guys that come in and robbed the the there's the 411 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: store and it'd taken all the records out of the 412 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: store except Island. I mean, that was that was That 413 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: was a low. I learned the level I thought making accompany. 414 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: They would buy all the other records, but don't buy 415 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: one of mine. They stayed in there, but that that 416 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: I'll never forget that one. I couldn't believe it. And 417 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: it is this company Island self supporting, or you're living 418 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: on money from your parents, or you just scratching by, 419 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: you've got enough money in your pocket to go spend 420 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: a little. Now, I was just on my own, on 421 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: my own. I didn't take I wask anny money from 422 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: my parents. But but my mom did, did you know, 423 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: pay for me too to have an apartment. So I had, 424 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: I had a base in England, but other than that, 425 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,959 Speaker 1: I didn't. Okay, So how did you find really small? 426 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: As I was saying, lots of different people were producing records. 427 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: There was Cox, you know, there was Duke re Reed. 428 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: They were about ten different people who were making records 429 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: in Jamaica. About about five of them were Chinese and 430 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: five of them were Jamaica and another couple. One was 431 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: an Australian guy and the other was me, And that 432 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: was pretty much who released the records in the market 433 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: in Jamaica. So when I had gone to England, they 434 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: would send me records in England to release. Yeah, And 435 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: one of the records that was sent to me was 436 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: called wheel Meat and it was a song by Roy 437 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: and Milly. It was done by Coxon and it started 438 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: out with the guy singing the first verse and then 439 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: the guy saying the second verse, and then the girl 440 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: saying the third verse, and that was Milly. And it 441 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: was a very high pitch voice, but it was it 442 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: was it was great. I mean, you you either loved 443 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: it or you hated it because it was a sort 444 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: of high pitch voice. But you know, there was something 445 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: about it, which was really fun. And so I thought, well, 446 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: I've got to try and find it, got to try 447 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: and find a record form, you know, another record, and 448 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: h I found what I used to do when I 449 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: was flashing a bit back to Jamaica now, But when 450 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: I was in Jamaica and would go to New York. 451 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: I go to New York and I'd go to this 452 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: there are a lot of record stores on the sixth 453 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: Avenue in New York, and I'd go and buy forty 454 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: five and I'd bring them back and I would sell 455 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: them to the sound system because the sound system guys, 456 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: that was the music business in Jamaica. That was the 457 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: whole life of it. You know. It was really exciting 458 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: because these guys created these huge speakers, massive speakers, and 459 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: you could hear the music from to three miles away, 460 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: you know, blasting it was and it was incredible. It 461 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: was really a trip and that I'd go to all 462 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: those events, you know, and I was pretty much the 463 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: only person with my complexion there, but everybody by then 464 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: it's kind of got used to me and forgured that, 465 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 1: you know, you know, I was okay as well. And 466 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: so coxin Um the record that he sent me will meet, 467 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: and I decided to bring it to England because she 468 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 1: had such a unique voice. I wrote to her mother 469 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: and asked if she would send her to England and 470 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:43,280 Speaker 1: and and she did and what when she came to England, 471 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: I had already brought also a guitarist Jamaican guitarists called 472 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: Ernest Wrangling to England try and get Ronnie Scott's club. 473 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: Um and he was, you know, really excellent musician, still 474 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: is he still around? And with Milly, I was really 475 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: looking for a song. So I met with with the 476 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: Ernest Rangelan and with Milly and a couple of other 477 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: people and played through some of the songs that I 478 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: used to buy, records that I used to buy to 479 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: sell to the sound system guys when I was in Jamaica. 480 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: So some of those records I kept, you know, I 481 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: just had on on tape just because I liked them. 482 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: I wasn't manufacturing any of them, but I just liked them. 483 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: So when I was having this meeting with Ernest Rangeland 484 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: and Milly in the room and somebody else, we were 485 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: going through these tapes and one of them came up 486 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: and it was called My Boy Lollipop. And I thought, wow, 487 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: the sounds great. The sounds just right for Milly, and 488 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: Ernest rang and said, he ever, does that sounds good? 489 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: So we decided that we were recorded. UM. My plan 490 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: was initially to produce the record um, and I didn't 491 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: produce it in the studio because in those days you 492 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: couldn't go in the studio unless all the musicians could 493 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: read music. So back in the day, you know, I 494 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: couldn't read music. Ernest wrangling. Fortunately the guitarists could read music, 495 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: so he he sort of gave the the directions to 496 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: the English musicians who are playing. So when I recorded 497 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: it that the first sort of rough recording, I thought, what, 498 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: this sounds great, and so the only thing is that 499 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: I think it's a bit long. They said, well, what 500 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: do you mean a bit long? It's only you know, 501 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: two minutes and fifty seconds or something. I said, now 502 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 1: that's too long. So people said, well, um, why it's 503 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: too nice. I just I just think it's too long. 504 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: I really like it to be much shorter. So we 505 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: recorded it much shorter and it was one minutes and 506 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: fifty eight seconds. And it's definitely the smartest thing that 507 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: I've done so far, because you know, Milly's voice is 508 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: a high pitched voice, and high pitched voices tremendous if 509 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: it's not going on for too long. But if it's 510 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: going on for too long, you don't really want to 511 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: hear it again. If it's if it's very short, you 512 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: want to hear it every now and again all the time. 513 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,799 Speaker 1: And really that's what happened the record. I knew the 514 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: record when it was finished. I knew that it was 515 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: going to be a huge hit, and they also knew 516 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: that it couldn't go on Island Records because Island Records 517 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: was a tiny little company. And I had learned a 518 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: lot when I used to go up to New York 519 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: to all the independent labels, and you know, one one 520 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: year you come and they had had a huge year. 521 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: In the next year you come and then the record 522 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 1: would come out and they were out of business. Because 523 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,400 Speaker 1: you know, the people who would buy the records and 524 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: the record stores would only really buy the they'd buy 525 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,359 Speaker 1: if it was a hit, you know. So if if 526 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 1: something came out and it didn't really it didn't really 527 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,879 Speaker 1: it wasn't really an immediate hits as far as they 528 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: were concerned, they wouldn't really do anything much for it, 529 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: and and then the company would find themselves out of business. 530 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: So I licensed I licensed it Phillips. Phillips at that 531 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: time owned what is now PolyGram, what is now Universal whatever. 532 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: So you first and foremost, let's talk about the record. 533 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: The record had an incredible zinc. Yes. Was it something 534 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: that just was magic in the studio or was it 535 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: cup multiple times? How did you get that? I mean 536 00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: the record just jumped out of the radio. It was 537 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,000 Speaker 1: done two times. We did one take and then we 538 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: did another take and that and that was it. It 539 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: just it just I guess some luck. We all need 540 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: some luck. It just clicked, you know, the band clicked, 541 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: which was like a miracle because you know, uh, the 542 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: you know, they didn't know they never played anything like 543 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: that before music before, so but it just happened and 544 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:59,439 Speaker 1: and uh m hm, it was it. Well, it's something 545 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 1: I can't they ever forget because you know, when I 546 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: just took it out and played it, it was it 547 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: was something that if you played it, people would say, 548 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: I've got to take that with me. I mean they 549 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 1: had to take that with me. It was that which 550 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: was that kind of level. But it's sold seven thousand records. 551 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: It was number two to the Beatles. Can you imagine? Well, 552 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: I just remember the record. My mother had to buy it. 553 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: We had it in the house just because it was 554 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: so amazing. But you said you knew it as soon 555 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: as you heard it. There are certain transcending songs I 556 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: have to ask in your career generally speaking, did you 557 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: know that level of hit or was that rare and 558 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: you didn't really know? Well, I know that level of 559 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: what I think is great, which made me right and 560 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,800 Speaker 1: maybe wrong, you know, so I don't. I don't. I 561 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't say that if it's if it's something that I feel, Wow, 562 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: this is just you know, well, that's what happens. And 563 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: if when you're recording, if you if you were recording 564 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: and it is something that just has worked. You know, 565 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,720 Speaker 1: the rhythm sections working, the vocal is working, the balance 566 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: is working, everything is working. It's fantastic when that happens. 567 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:27,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's just it's just if you're Flori. You 568 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,319 Speaker 1: know what are a couple other records you got that 569 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: same feeling from, Oh Gosh, Keep on Running. Keep on 570 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 1: Running was the first record that I did with the 571 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: Spencer Davis Group, which was Steve Winwood and and that 572 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: that record. The song was written by a Jamaican guy, 573 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: The same Jamaican I was telling you about a little earlier. 574 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: Was the first guy I heard singing like Bendon. I 575 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: brought him over to England to help me deliver the 576 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: records to the record store. And and he wrote that song. 577 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,759 Speaker 1: And see Win would sing that song and that southing 578 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: and any others you can remember that had that magical feeling. 579 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: Definitely definitely them been song. But I can't remember right now. 580 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: Let's go reverse. Are there a couple you got that 581 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:38,000 Speaker 1: feeling and they stiffed? Uh? I don't remember that. Maybe 582 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 1: that may well be possible because I don't want to 583 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:53,439 Speaker 1: remember it. Okay, So let's set the stage. Needless to say, 584 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,359 Speaker 1: the Beatles break in UK and uh sixty two. They 585 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,319 Speaker 1: don't break in America until sixty four. You're a guy 586 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: who's tied into the Jamaican sound. Uh, Millie Small's record 587 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: is sort of a SKA record. What was it like 588 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 1: in England? Right there? Well, when the Beatles exploded, that 589 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,840 Speaker 1: was it? I mean, I mean the Beatles weren't really 590 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: pretty incredible? What what what they produced? What they did 591 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 1: really incredible and and that that was what that drove 592 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 1: the whole British music industry, whereas before, you know, it 593 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: was all about America. Really, um, England didn't really have 594 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: too much happening that I can remember, which sort of 595 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: reached people, you know, playing music, listening to music, not 596 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,799 Speaker 1: not like America because that you know, all that that 597 00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,440 Speaker 1: blues music came from American, out from America, and you know, 598 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: whether it's Chicago, New Orleans or in Atlanta whatever, m 599 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: hm um. The the music was coming out of America 600 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:19,759 Speaker 1: until the Beatles, the blast and then you know, and 601 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:24,280 Speaker 1: then sort of ruled ruled everything for a good few years. 602 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 1: And so do you remember when you first heard the 603 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: Beatles were exposed to the Beatles? Yes, and I remember 604 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: liking it, definitely like it. Absolutely. There wasn't anything I 605 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,720 Speaker 1: didn't like about them. But I wasn't a Beatles fan. 606 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: I was more Rolling Stones fan. Okay, so you were 607 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: more of a blues based fair. So you tour the 608 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 1: world with Millie Small. You have this ultimate success, but 609 00:44:57,600 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: you also have an insight that this is really not 610 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,799 Speaker 1: you want to proceed you mean with Millie Oh, I 611 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,279 Speaker 1: mean in business you were basically sort of like the 612 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: movie The Idol maker a little bit more. You created 613 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: this thing. It was incredible. There's a lot of effort. 614 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: It was singles based on what it's all said and done. 615 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 1: According to your book this year, this is not a 616 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: direction I want to go in a different direction. Well, yes, 617 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:26,480 Speaker 1: because because uh, you know, the Beatles had driven something 618 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 1: and there were a lot of There are a lot 619 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 1: of bands which evolved, a lot of them whether they 620 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:36,360 Speaker 1: come from Liverpool or London or over and and a 621 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 1: lot of them. Um also went to Um. I'm trying 622 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,960 Speaker 1: to remember that the city in Germany where did they comberg? Yeah, 623 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,359 Speaker 1: so I went. I went to Hamburg and I saw 624 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 1: a band there and I love that band. Um. I 625 00:45:54,719 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: brought them back there. They evolved into to the form 626 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 1: names and trying to remember them now that that that 627 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,759 Speaker 1: their name got changed, and then every time the name 628 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,759 Speaker 1: got changed, the name was worth Remember we were trying. 629 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 1: I remember being really frustrated with it. We couldn't get 630 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,960 Speaker 1: get get it, get it right. Okay, So you make 631 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 1: the record and nothing happened. It's a little bit, it's 632 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:29,360 Speaker 1: a little bit what what was what was really happening? 633 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:35,480 Speaker 1: After Milly was initially the Spencer Davis Group, which evolved 634 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,400 Speaker 1: into Traffic, Okay, a little bit slower. All of a sudden, 635 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,480 Speaker 1: the Beatles are gigantic in America. It's the British invasion, 636 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: all these bands from Liverpool, etcetera. Are you trying to 637 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,719 Speaker 1: find some of those bands? Are you saying I'm going 638 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,799 Speaker 1: in the other direction? How do you view that you're 639 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:59,440 Speaker 1: going to compete? Well, in that early stage, I was 640 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,759 Speaker 1: still they pretty much focused on the Jamaican music coming 641 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:07,440 Speaker 1: from Jamaica, so that was my main main thing. So 642 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,239 Speaker 1: I was doing some other recordings, but the Jamaican one 643 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 1: was the one which was sort of steady, which you know, 644 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: everybody in the company pretty much knew what they were 645 00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: doing and what we were after and how we were 646 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:32,239 Speaker 1: trying to reach different markets, etcetera. But the I'm trying 647 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think, I mean the Spencer Davis group, 648 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:41,720 Speaker 1: which which evolved into Traffic. That that was a major 649 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:48,239 Speaker 1: thing for me because when would you know, as you know, 650 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:54,920 Speaker 1: it's a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant musician, and you know, when 651 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 1: when I had first seen him play, I couldn't I 652 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:04,560 Speaker 1: couldn't believe that he was, you know, playing keyboards and 653 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,359 Speaker 1: singing at the same time and then you know he's 654 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: playing guitar and then you know it was It was incredible. 655 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:18,560 Speaker 1: So Traffic Traffic was sort of absolutely the main strong 656 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:23,640 Speaker 1: band in that period in time. And then once that 657 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:28,560 Speaker 1: was happening, then people start to come come towards you 658 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,279 Speaker 1: a bit, you know, and they would maybe try to 659 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:35,279 Speaker 1: get on that label because Steve when was on that 660 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,840 Speaker 1: Lebel you know what I mean. So I think that 661 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:44,200 Speaker 1: that that helped attract different talents to come and want 662 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,319 Speaker 1: to work and work with that. So how did you 663 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:51,759 Speaker 1: discover the Spencer David's group and was no one else interested? 664 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,080 Speaker 1: How did you prevent someone else signing them out from 665 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,920 Speaker 1: underneath you? Somebody rang me and tell me, you know, 666 00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,200 Speaker 1: you should come up to birming and the band's in Birmium. 667 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,120 Speaker 1: I said, well, well, as it happens, I have to 668 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,400 Speaker 1: come up next Sunday because I have to go with 669 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,640 Speaker 1: Milly because she's doing a TV show. So I said, 670 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: I'll come up and then after the TV show meet 671 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,240 Speaker 1: you downstairs and then we'll go and drive around and listen. 672 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,919 Speaker 1: So that's that's what happened. I went there, I met 673 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,640 Speaker 1: the guy, the guys whose name I should absolutely be 674 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,759 Speaker 1: able to tell you, but I can't remember his name. 675 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:37,880 Speaker 1: And he he took me to see one band. I 676 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,520 Speaker 1: didn't really like the band too much because they had 677 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 1: a kind of uniform one and I hated kind of 678 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,920 Speaker 1: uniform kind of things. So I would I'd like. I 679 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: like the funkyness, you know. That's why I like the 680 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:52,319 Speaker 1: zones of Little More, you know, funking and everything. So 681 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:59,720 Speaker 1: anyhow I went. I went to that first and really 682 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,000 Speaker 1: like and then the guy said, well, I'll take you 683 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,680 Speaker 1: to another place. I don't know if you like it 684 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,719 Speaker 1: or not, but there's that. It's a band. It's just 685 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:11,319 Speaker 1: like three three four band, but you can come and 686 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,120 Speaker 1: see them, so is it okay? So I drove around 687 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,040 Speaker 1: with him, and Milly was with me and the car 688 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:22,440 Speaker 1: too because we just come from the TV show. And 689 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:27,360 Speaker 1: we went there, started walking up some stairs and you 690 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,560 Speaker 1: could hear somebody's singing with a great voice. I was 691 00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,959 Speaker 1: walking up the next row of stairs, and I could 692 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:38,359 Speaker 1: hear the singing more more clearly in the music. More 693 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,480 Speaker 1: clearly in the music was something really great, and the 694 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:48,080 Speaker 1: singing was sounding really great. It sounded like I've always 695 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,759 Speaker 1: used the example like Ray Charles on Helium, because you 696 00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 1: know it was like Gray Charles sort of way of singing, 697 00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:01,520 Speaker 1: but the picture of his voice was different. And then 698 00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,440 Speaker 1: finally when I got upstairs into the room, there was 699 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,640 Speaker 1: this kid who was sixteen I think he was. He 700 00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:12,800 Speaker 1: might have been seventeen. I think he was sixteen singing 701 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:20,560 Speaker 1: by I mean whaling, really singing, playing the keyboards, playing organ, 702 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:26,360 Speaker 1: playing piano, playing guitar, everything, And I couldn't I just 703 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:31,600 Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. Now, in those days, those days, now 704 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:36,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about ninety three or maybe sixty four. Those days, 705 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:43,320 Speaker 1: the the record companies in England were E. M. I, Decker, Phillips, 706 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,000 Speaker 1: and a pie Em. I was the biggest, Decker was 707 00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:51,480 Speaker 1: the second biggest, Phillips the third, pie the fourth, and 708 00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:56,360 Speaker 1: that was pretty much it. And but none of the 709 00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,480 Speaker 1: heads of the companies would go out go out to 710 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:05,359 Speaker 1: listen to bands. I mean they wouldn't. People wouldn't leave 711 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,719 Speaker 1: their office to go and see a band. None of 712 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,640 Speaker 1: those people, I mean, any of those people could have 713 00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:18,160 Speaker 1: signs to Swinsondavor School Win one if they had gone 714 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:23,040 Speaker 1: out and no, nobody, nobody could have denied signing him 715 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:32,120 Speaker 1: if they hadn't, you know, had they not seen him so, um, 716 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 1: what happened was that I said to the guys, I'd 717 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,719 Speaker 1: love to record you guys. They say, I'd love to 718 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,640 Speaker 1: record you guys, dinog and they said, well when I 719 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:47,440 Speaker 1: couldn't record, I said, I don't know, four or five days. 720 00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:52,640 Speaker 1: That's incredible because again, and those days you couldn't get 721 00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:56,960 Speaker 1: studio organized. You know, it wasn't you know, there was 722 00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:01,360 Speaker 1: nobody out there finding or follow growing up or catching 723 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:06,719 Speaker 1: or promoting or pushing you know, somebody like like the 724 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:10,680 Speaker 1: Spencer Davis group that by Steve Winwood that time. It 725 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:16,280 Speaker 1: was just incredible. So that's what happened. So a few 726 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:21,520 Speaker 1: weeks later I went to the studio and um, I 727 00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: did this one song with that written by that same thing. 728 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,040 Speaker 1: I told you the first guy when I was in 729 00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,600 Speaker 1: the and the shows in Jamaica back in the day, 730 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:37,080 Speaker 1: his name was Wilfrid Edwards called him Jackie Edwards. Wilfrid 731 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:44,520 Speaker 1: was just and so their first set was keep on 732 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,800 Speaker 1: Running and it was written by Will for whatever the 733 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,960 Speaker 1: Jackie Wilfrid. Now, when you would make a deal with 734 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:55,200 Speaker 1: the band, you know, certainly evolved people would make these deals. 735 00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:58,480 Speaker 1: In California, we have the seven year rule. But not 736 00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,640 Speaker 1: in other countries. Would you sign them for a single? 737 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,399 Speaker 1: Would you tie them up at a low royalty rate? 738 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,360 Speaker 1: What was the business side like you signed them for? 739 00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 1: I didn't know, like two or three albums something like that. 740 00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:17,520 Speaker 1: I can't remember now because that all changed as as 741 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,839 Speaker 1: everything got big up and got got wider and got more, 742 00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:28,600 Speaker 1: you know, more most powerful. In general, it's it changed 743 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:33,680 Speaker 1: a bit, It all changed, keep on running, certainly legendary track, 744 00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,720 Speaker 1: but when it comes to traffic. The two iconic songs 745 00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,160 Speaker 1: are I'm a Man and give Me Some Loving? I mean, 746 00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,759 Speaker 1: give Me Some Loving. Sounds as fresh today as it 747 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,160 Speaker 1: did yesterday. Can you tell us a story on that? 748 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,279 Speaker 1: I can't remember who wrote the song, but I do 749 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:55,120 Speaker 1: remember recording it, and I do remember thinking it's huge. 750 00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:59,279 Speaker 1: And which one was that? Give Me something? Give Me 751 00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,879 Speaker 1: some Loving? And I'm a Man. Yeah, I'm a man. 752 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,799 Speaker 1: Who wrote I'm a Man? I have to look it up. 753 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:11,400 Speaker 1: I can't remember. I'm a Man was written by uh 754 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,479 Speaker 1: Winwood and Jimmy Miller. Okay, which which wind with Steve 755 00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:20,080 Speaker 1: Winwood or muf WinWin Yeah, Steve Winwood, Steve Winwood. Oh 756 00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,360 Speaker 1: that's right, Well, Jimmy Miller was somebody I found in 757 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:28,080 Speaker 1: in New York and he was he was a producer 758 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,840 Speaker 1: in New York, and I brought him over to England 759 00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:37,240 Speaker 1: and and he he did great work in England, firstly 760 00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:41,799 Speaker 1: with Traffic and then with the Running Stones. Okay, so 761 00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,440 Speaker 1: what was his magic? You know? Also he died way 762 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,600 Speaker 1: before his time, but the records, forget the ones with Traffic, 763 00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,720 Speaker 1: the ones he cut in that middle period with Stones 764 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,280 Speaker 1: were just iconic. What did he bring to the studio? 765 00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:01,280 Speaker 1: He was very talented. It was very talented. He had 766 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,440 Speaker 1: one problem, you know, which is one of those problems 767 00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:10,440 Speaker 1: which damaged so many people in music and things. But 768 00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,400 Speaker 1: he had a great taste in music and a great 769 00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:20,360 Speaker 1: energy and an ability to sort of just be a 770 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,640 Speaker 1: leader as it were. You know, he'd be really like 771 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:28,520 Speaker 1: sort of leading the leading the song as if he's 772 00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,359 Speaker 1: as if as if he was a conductor kind of thing. 773 00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:36,880 Speaker 1: And okay, you know that Steve is bigger than the 774 00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:41,000 Speaker 1: rest of the group. How does it evolve in the Traffic? 775 00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:48,440 Speaker 1: Because he Steve wanted to I didn't want to really 776 00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:56,720 Speaker 1: continue working exactly with the uh Spencer David's group. Um, 777 00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,160 Speaker 1: and I think he was more into well, I don't 778 00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,160 Speaker 1: think I know he was more interested in working with 779 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:07,440 Speaker 1: Dave Mason, Jim Capoldi and Chris Wood, who are pals 780 00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,799 Speaker 1: of his, who you know, he just really got on 781 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:15,759 Speaker 1: well with, whereas before, remember he was much younger than 782 00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,800 Speaker 1: and the others. He was very young, so he was 783 00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:23,240 Speaker 1: sort of he was wanting to sort of make a jump. 784 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:28,600 Speaker 1: I think it was sort of jumping up to a 785 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:33,520 Speaker 1: another level. I would say, Okay, So ultimately Traffic makes 786 00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,960 Speaker 1: two albums, there's turmoil, Dave Mason is in the group, 787 00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,880 Speaker 1: not in the group. First record as iconic songs, generally 788 00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,600 Speaker 1: they're covered, they're not really hits for Traffic at that time. 789 00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,720 Speaker 1: Second album unbelievable. Then the band says it's going to 790 00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:52,200 Speaker 1: break up. So do you remember whin Would ultimately going 791 00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:56,320 Speaker 1: to play with Blind Faith and your part in that, Yes, yes, 792 00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,400 Speaker 1: I remember that. I'll tell you what I tell you. 793 00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:05,600 Speaker 1: My reading of what happened is Chris Would, who everybody 794 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:11,760 Speaker 1: loved he was at sax Player, but he really was 795 00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:17,120 Speaker 1: kind of I could get very out of it, and 796 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:23,360 Speaker 1: I think probably what really happened one day it was 797 00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,240 Speaker 1: just too much and he didn't never turned out for 798 00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:32,080 Speaker 1: the show in New York Bill Graham put it on. 799 00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,800 Speaker 1: I can't remember the place I should remember when would 800 00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:39,680 Speaker 1: barely even played himself on it. He was so angry 801 00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:45,920 Speaker 1: and it seemed that, you know, there their relationship or 802 00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:53,640 Speaker 1: music relationship I think, drifted away a lot. And also 803 00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,360 Speaker 1: I didn't know what else it might have been. That's 804 00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,600 Speaker 1: the only thing I can think of, because Jim Capoli 805 00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,600 Speaker 1: was very important in Traffic because he wrote, he wrote ms, 806 00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 1: the lyrics and and it was just Woody, you know, Chris, 807 00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,440 Speaker 1: Chris wood was it was was a bit was a 808 00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:18,480 Speaker 1: bit faking, you know. So you had windward side, you know, 809 00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:20,840 Speaker 1: you have to give permission for him to be in 810 00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,240 Speaker 1: Blind Faith? What did you think then? And did you 811 00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,800 Speaker 1: get a piece? How did you get compensated? Well? Blind 812 00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:32,080 Speaker 1: Faith was a joint venture with Stigwood. That's that's that's 813 00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:37,840 Speaker 1: that's how that happened. Um, because the it was Eric 814 00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:45,560 Speaker 1: and Ginger. Yeah, not to be difficult, Okay. So you 815 00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,600 Speaker 1: have this huge success with Traffic islands on the map. 816 00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:53,800 Speaker 1: What comes over the transom next? Well, Free, I would say, 817 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,560 Speaker 1: is one of them. You know the band folk called Free? 818 00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,439 Speaker 1: Of course I do. And I know Paul Rodgers who 819 00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:03,360 Speaker 1: can still saying like he used to. So you hear Paul. 820 01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:08,040 Speaker 1: You know, how did you find Paul Rogers? Somebody told 821 01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,680 Speaker 1: me one day he said, you know there's a band. 822 01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:15,520 Speaker 1: There's a band playing at the at the Wardo and so, 823 01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:21,000 Speaker 1: and he said that they're really young band. He said, 824 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,080 Speaker 1: but you should go see them. They're really good. So 825 01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,480 Speaker 1: I went to see them, and I couldn't believe it. 826 01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,560 Speaker 1: They were. They were very young. Was one of them 827 01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,000 Speaker 1: was tour and the rest of them were about, you know, 828 01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:36,040 Speaker 1: we're tiny, and they were very strong. The band was 829 01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:41,080 Speaker 1: very strong. And I went backstage after they finished and 830 01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:42,880 Speaker 1: I said, listen to you. Guys are really great. I 831 01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:46,280 Speaker 1: really think you're great. I'd love you to come and 832 01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:51,040 Speaker 1: come to my office tomorrow and let's meet and see 833 01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:54,760 Speaker 1: if we can work out something. So they said okay. 834 01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:58,560 Speaker 1: So the next morning I went there early and there 835 01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,320 Speaker 1: was a guy who was working with me, a brilliant, 836 01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:06,480 Speaker 1: brilliant guy called Guy Stevens. Was a real music fanatic, 837 01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:13,120 Speaker 1: American black music particular, but really talented really in many 838 01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:17,680 Speaker 1: ways as a writer, as a designer, everything, and he 839 01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,720 Speaker 1: was like a sort of my number number two guys 840 01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:25,280 Speaker 1: who you know, would help me. And I saw him 841 01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:28,800 Speaker 1: in the morning. And what I forgot, I told you 842 01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,560 Speaker 1: was that when I saw them the night before, I said, 843 01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:33,440 Speaker 1: I said, I said to them, and I said, the 844 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,520 Speaker 1: only thing that I don't really like is that I 845 01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:39,600 Speaker 1: don't really not too keen on the name free. So 846 01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,800 Speaker 1: and then I left that night. But the next next 847 01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:46,600 Speaker 1: morning I met guys Stevens and I said, listen, I'm 848 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:50,680 Speaker 1: meeting these kids. They're incredible. I heard them played last night. 849 01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:53,840 Speaker 1: They were really incredible. I said, but I don't really 850 01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,160 Speaker 1: like the name free. Because you put free, people are 851 01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:58,600 Speaker 1: going to think it's a free freaking show, and so 852 01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:02,720 Speaker 1: they're coming and I don't really like that name. So 853 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:05,200 Speaker 1: he said, well, I've got a name. I got a 854 01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,680 Speaker 1: going the name for you. So it's okay. Well that's great. 855 01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:10,800 Speaker 1: So then the band come in a little later, four 856 01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:17,160 Speaker 1: of them, led by Andy Fraser, who's just fifteen. He's 857 01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,680 Speaker 1: the leader of the band. And they come in. We 858 01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:27,840 Speaker 1: sit down and chatting a bit, and and then we 859 01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:32,840 Speaker 1: we guy Guy Stevens comes in the office to say hello, 860 01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:34,680 Speaker 1: and I say, this is a guy Sevens says hello, 861 01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:41,400 Speaker 1: said and I just wanted him to come up with 862 01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:46,440 Speaker 1: to to recommend another name because I don't. I'm not 863 01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,360 Speaker 1: really keen on the name free because people will think 864 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,520 Speaker 1: it's a free show or something and want to come in. 865 01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:57,600 Speaker 1: And so they laughed at such a guy, stevemens So 866 01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:02,120 Speaker 1: then so the guys Semens was there and and Andy 867 01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:08,080 Speaker 1: Phrases looks at guys sevens and says, so, what name 868 01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:13,560 Speaker 1: is that you have planned for us? And guys Stephen 869 01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:19,640 Speaker 1: said the heavy metal kids. So Andy Fraser looks back 870 01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:24,640 Speaker 1: at me and he says, if you want to sign us, 871 01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:30,880 Speaker 1: our name is free. Little fucker. You know, he was 872 01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,880 Speaker 1: in control from that moment, and he was just brilliant. 873 01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:39,000 Speaker 1: He was the leader of the band, and they were fantastic, 874 01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:46,680 Speaker 1: really fantastic. Really sadly, you know, there's a couple of 875 01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:59,080 Speaker 1: them gone, really sadly. Paul Rockers teams to this day 876 01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:03,440 Speaker 1: that Paul Kossoff is the best guitars he ever worked with. 877 01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:07,600 Speaker 1: And he certainly we worked with Brian May and Jimmy 878 01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:12,760 Speaker 1: Page and of course uh Kasoff ultimately died on a 879 01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,320 Speaker 1: plane ride to do gigs in the UK from the US. 880 01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:18,320 Speaker 1: How good was Paul kas Off? What do you think 881 01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:26,120 Speaker 1: of fantastic? He was absolutely fantastic, But he had an addiction, 882 01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, and I mean, and he was in shocking shape. 883 01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:38,600 Speaker 1: I had. I had a situation with him once. Once 884 01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,680 Speaker 1: I was doing a record with Jim Capaldi and muscle 885 01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:45,600 Speaker 1: shows and somehow I had asked Kossof to come down 886 01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:52,720 Speaker 1: and and so Kossoff was in the studio, Jim Coppolis 887 01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:56,040 Speaker 1: in the studio, and then you know, we were wrapping up. 888 01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:58,400 Speaker 1: It was the end of the time, and I was 889 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:04,120 Speaker 1: I was going back to Los Angeles and Paul Kassof 890 01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:05,840 Speaker 1: was going to come back with me to the Los 891 01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:07,960 Speaker 1: Angeles and Jim copor Who's going to go to England? 892 01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:13,560 Speaker 1: So muscle shows, you know, as I don't know if 893 01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:15,680 Speaker 1: it's still is I'm sure it is. You know, you 894 01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:18,480 Speaker 1: couldn't get a drink, you couldn't get anything. Then there's nothing. 895 01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:21,400 Speaker 1: I mean. I I asked the guy who ran and 896 01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:25,560 Speaker 1: Jimmy Johnson who ran muscle shows, and said, what do 897 01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,920 Speaker 1: you what do you do here? And he said, and 898 01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,800 Speaker 1: what do you do in this time? And he said wow. 899 01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,160 Speaker 1: Now and again we go to the airport and watch 900 01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:42,320 Speaker 1: him rent the corp and and he was great. But 901 01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:47,080 Speaker 1: when when we when we left to go to drive 902 01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:52,360 Speaker 1: to the airport to fly to l A. We stopped 903 01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:58,760 Speaker 1: in this little cafe and coss off and ordered this 904 01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:02,920 Speaker 1: food food at the food mashed potatoes and beef and 905 01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:06,680 Speaker 1: stuff like that. And then he kind of collapsed in 906 01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:10,240 Speaker 1: the middle of it and his face fell down and 907 01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:17,960 Speaker 1: splashed of the food. And there was a huge it 908 01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:22,800 Speaker 1: was a huge guy just walked up, finished his dinner 909 01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,200 Speaker 1: and walked up. He was walking by a huge guy. 910 01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:32,240 Speaker 1: I mean, it's scared than a guy. And and and 911 01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:36,840 Speaker 1: he looked at Paul Kass often he said. He didn't 912 01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,960 Speaker 1: even say anything. He was just laughed and course off 913 01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:45,280 Speaker 1: terms of why don't you just fuck off? I could 914 01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,040 Speaker 1: believe it. I could believe it. I thought I thought 915 01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:49,960 Speaker 1: we were gonna be dead and buried right then and 916 01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:56,440 Speaker 1: there m h. And then we went on too and 917 01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,480 Speaker 1: stayed in the light for a bit. Okay, you know 918 01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:02,360 Speaker 1: there's any the anthology on A and M called More 919 01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:07,200 Speaker 1: Gold just unreal, I mean, an unheralded band. There's so 920 01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:10,560 Speaker 1: much stuff on there that was not successful commercially. But 921 01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:15,040 Speaker 1: the third album, Fire and Water has all right now, 922 01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, I kind of kit from the fall of 923 01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:21,240 Speaker 1: Summer in fall of nineteen seventy with an incredible riff 924 01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:25,880 Speaker 1: that becomes their one big successful track in American worldwide? 925 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:29,040 Speaker 1: Did you know that was going to be that big? 926 01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:34,040 Speaker 1: But I'll tell you that youruth. I projuced it record, 927 01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:38,720 Speaker 1: but I honestly didn't feel it was anything like as 928 01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:41,360 Speaker 1: good as it could have been. I don't know why, 929 01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:47,640 Speaker 1: because because it's been very successful, very very successful. Mhm. 930 01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:53,560 Speaker 1: But I I thought I thought it could have been better. 931 01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:58,640 Speaker 1: What what? What what I'd done? Because I I recorded 932 01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:02,520 Speaker 1: it and the thing which I don't know, I just 933 01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,600 Speaker 1: I just I just thought it could have been better. 934 01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:11,280 Speaker 1: I didn't know why. Okay, sometimes you're producing, sometimes you're not. 935 01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,840 Speaker 1: How do you decide to produce an act? Well, if 936 01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:20,479 Speaker 1: I feel I can contribute, if not, And okay, let's 937 01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:22,880 Speaker 1: use a couple of your production examples like We've all 938 01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:27,080 Speaker 1: right now and the first B fifty two albums for album, 939 01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:34,200 Speaker 1: what do you think you could contribute? There? Nothing? Nothing, 940 01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:37,720 Speaker 1: because they had it all down. They were fantastic. They 941 01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:42,960 Speaker 1: all arrived in Nassa, Bahamas, and the Nasso, Bahamas they 942 01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:46,360 Speaker 1: would charge the government would charge fortune for bringing in 943 01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:50,479 Speaker 1: equipment and you know, usually you had to sort of 944 01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:56,720 Speaker 1: pay to the government fifty six dollars to you, you know, 945 01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:00,519 Speaker 1: which they'd hold onto until all the instruments was shipped 946 01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:06,280 Speaker 1: back out of massal. In their case, it was it 947 01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:11,320 Speaker 1: was like four hundred dollars that they came. It was 948 01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:14,439 Speaker 1: all it was all toy to toy instruments. It was 949 01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,960 Speaker 1: unbelievable and it really was. And they went in the 950 01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:21,040 Speaker 1: studio and it was all toy instruments. And I don't know, 951 01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:25,680 Speaker 1: I loved I enjoyed so much that I wish I 952 01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,200 Speaker 1: could tell you that, you know, I didn't had contributed 953 01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:33,760 Speaker 1: the tool to any production. I didn't. They did themselves completely. 954 01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,000 Speaker 1: But I enjoyed so much. I liked them so much. 955 01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:41,120 Speaker 1: But they were they were they were they were just 956 01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:45,320 Speaker 1: they were special, they really were. So you end up 957 01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:50,200 Speaker 1: making deals with companies and ended up turning into Crystalis 958 01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,559 Speaker 1: and e g. You know, when Jeff wrote, how does 959 01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,599 Speaker 1: Jeff Rode told? How do roxy music? How do they 960 01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:01,759 Speaker 1: come to you? Gestel came to me with the band 961 01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:04,719 Speaker 1: I had, which was I think it was called Spooky 962 01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:09,519 Speaker 1: Tooth at that time. And when whenever a band would 963 01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,519 Speaker 1: go touring and come back to the office, you know, asson, 964 01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:18,800 Speaker 1: did you see anything here, anything, etcetera. Etcetera. And one 965 01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:22,040 Speaker 1: of the guys you should remember his name because he 966 01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:25,200 Speaker 1: was the needs of the band. Um you probably have 967 01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:30,040 Speaker 1: it right there. Um. Uh he was, he was the leader. 968 01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:34,480 Speaker 1: Then well you know in the band, but I wouldn't Gary, 969 01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,800 Speaker 1: he he was the one. Uh. And I said, or 970 01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:42,559 Speaker 1: did you see anybody? And Gary said, and he sort 971 01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,400 Speaker 1: of kind of giggled and laughed shyly. He said, well, 972 01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:48,720 Speaker 1: there was this act I saw who I thought was 973 01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:53,160 Speaker 1: really kind of funny, stood on one leg playing the flute, 974 01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:55,400 Speaker 1: and I said, I love it, I love it. I 975 01:10:55,479 --> 01:11:01,120 Speaker 1: must find so I went off to it and I rang, 976 01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:07,800 Speaker 1: and I found out who who was sort of identified 977 01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:11,719 Speaker 1: with him, and that was Terry Ellis and Chris Wright, 978 01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:16,960 Speaker 1: both of whom were still in college. And so it 979 01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:21,280 Speaker 1: was Terry Ellis I spoke to and I said, I 980 01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:26,479 Speaker 1: love to sign these guys, and so he did. And 981 01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:30,040 Speaker 1: then the deal I made with him was because it 982 01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:33,519 Speaker 1: wasn't really my kind of music. I just love the 983 01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:37,559 Speaker 1: idea of it. The record did very well, the first record, 984 01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:42,439 Speaker 1: and then thereafter I passed him on Christmas? And what 985 01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:46,720 Speaker 1: about the guys with the e G. Roxy Music? Were 986 01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:54,080 Speaker 1: Roxy music? Roxy music? Rocky music? Really great did very 987 01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:57,680 Speaker 1: well in England, very well in England. I think at 988 01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:03,080 Speaker 1: that at the time that rocky music was all important, 989 01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:07,400 Speaker 1: was the time that I was starting getting involved with 990 01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:13,840 Speaker 1: Bob Money. Okay, so Catch Stephens, how did you get 991 01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:20,040 Speaker 1: involved with Catch Stephens? Because somebody was chasing me up 992 01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:25,720 Speaker 1: all the time that I should see him and meet 993 01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:33,240 Speaker 1: with him, and I was not really that interested because 994 01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:37,160 Speaker 1: I had seen him on to do a show on television, 995 01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:40,280 Speaker 1: which I thought was weird because his first I don't 996 01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:42,479 Speaker 1: know if you know, his first record was I Love 997 01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,040 Speaker 1: my Dog More Than I Love You or my Cat 998 01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:48,599 Speaker 1: bother nine one or the other kind of which I 999 01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:54,760 Speaker 1: had seen him on television, or a dressed in clothes 1000 01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:59,080 Speaker 1: which would be like from from you know, the him 1001 01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:05,200 Speaker 1: alayask and of things kind of clothes and he was 1002 01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:09,280 Speaker 1: singing something which that that's right. The song he was 1003 01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:12,080 Speaker 1: singing was I'm going to get me a gun, That's right, 1004 01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:14,640 Speaker 1: I remember, that was it. I thought, it makes no 1005 01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:16,720 Speaker 1: sense that he's singing a song calling and he get 1006 01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:19,400 Speaker 1: me a gun and he's dressed and his clothes. That 1007 01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:22,760 Speaker 1: didn't make any sense. So it wasn't that I was 1008 01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:28,320 Speaker 1: also chasing after him. It's just that the TV said 1009 01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,400 Speaker 1: it come on, and I saw that, and I didn't, 1010 01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:35,120 Speaker 1: you know, I just I didn't think. I didn't think 1011 01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:39,840 Speaker 1: much about it. But later somebody rang me and continued 1012 01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:42,599 Speaker 1: to ring me and continued to ring me, and eventually 1013 01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:45,439 Speaker 1: I said, okay, well, then send him to come come by. 1014 01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:53,000 Speaker 1: And eventually he came by, and he came with his guitar, 1015 01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:57,840 Speaker 1: took off his guitar and started to play a song 1016 01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:01,559 Speaker 1: and it was good. He played it on the song 1017 01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:07,160 Speaker 1: and it was good, and then he played father and Son. 1018 01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:12,200 Speaker 1: And when he played that song, I stopped him then 1019 01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:19,000 Speaker 1: and then said, that's fantastic, and definitely I wanted to 1020 01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:22,360 Speaker 1: talk to you about things, doing something when you come 1021 01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:24,759 Speaker 1: come on island instead. Well, I can't come on island 1022 01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:29,559 Speaker 1: because I'm on Ami. I'm on Decca. I said, yeah, 1023 01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:32,759 Speaker 1: but Decca, your last records have been sold on Becca 1024 01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:41,080 Speaker 1: and you know, and you should try Ireland. So he said, well, 1025 01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:44,559 Speaker 1: how can I get off Decca? And I said, well, 1026 01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:49,320 Speaker 1: what did your last record do? The last record had 1027 01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:55,040 Speaker 1: been sold, So I said to him, who is your 1028 01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:59,760 Speaker 1: a m R. Man? He said that they grow I said, oh, 1029 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:03,599 Speaker 1: the crow, the clothes I know the crow he's he's 1030 01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:08,320 Speaker 1: actually the person who passed on the Beatles and he said, yeah, 1031 01:15:08,479 --> 01:15:12,120 Speaker 1: that's And I said, well, why don't you call him 1032 01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:14,800 Speaker 1: and say, you've got this record that you want to do, 1033 01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:20,320 Speaker 1: which you're passionate about. You're going to need that, You're 1034 01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:23,640 Speaker 1: gonna need it's going to be need to be a 1035 01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:25,640 Speaker 1: good budget because I want to do it with the 1036 01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:32,479 Speaker 1: London London Philharmonic Orchestra and Chorus. And I said, I 1037 01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,080 Speaker 1: think it might give you a release. So he loved. 1038 01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:42,479 Speaker 1: So that was that, and in fact that's what he did. 1039 01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:45,959 Speaker 1: He went off and said, I want to do this recording. 1040 01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:47,720 Speaker 1: This is this is it. This is the only thing 1041 01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:49,120 Speaker 1: I want to do. I really want to do this, 1042 01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:57,000 Speaker 1: and h Philharmonic Orchestra and Chorus and he passed. And 1043 01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,760 Speaker 1: then I started, so what did you think when he 1044 01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:02,120 Speaker 1: said he was going to stop making records having had 1045 01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:10,400 Speaker 1: his religious conversion. That was the day that that um 1046 01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:15,640 Speaker 1: Money died. Can you imagine, Well it was coming to 1047 01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:21,559 Speaker 1: that because he was knock up. He wasn't a happy 1048 01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:28,120 Speaker 1: guy um during that latter part and then he was. 1049 01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:33,000 Speaker 1: He wasn't he just wasn't happy. He's he's an incredible person. 1050 01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:37,519 Speaker 1: Wonderful person, but he was not. He was not a 1051 01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:43,479 Speaker 1: happy guy in that period. And I think from what 1052 01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:47,640 Speaker 1: I had what Anderson he he went out swimming in 1053 01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:53,400 Speaker 1: in the in the sea and them in Los Angeles, 1054 01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:58,280 Speaker 1: and then and she became very rough and he got 1055 01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:08,200 Speaker 1: very scared and promise, ah, promises, God, you would you know, 1056 01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:14,920 Speaker 1: changed to his religion. If you say that's that's pretty 1057 01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:18,280 Speaker 1: much I might not have got it exactly right. Pretty 1058 01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:25,400 Speaker 1: much what always told me. Let's talk about distribution in America. 1059 01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,160 Speaker 1: Some of these albums came out on Warner, some came 1060 01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:31,360 Speaker 1: out on A and M. How did you decide and 1061 01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:33,800 Speaker 1: why didn't you? Or was it a matter of making 1062 01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:37,240 Speaker 1: an exclusive and shifting labels? What was going on there? 1063 01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:42,800 Speaker 1: I didn't really sort of have a label in in 1064 01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:48,599 Speaker 1: America at a time. At the time I did have one, 1065 01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,880 Speaker 1: but before that I didn't have one, and so I 1066 01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:56,080 Speaker 1: wanted to put the record with whoever I thought would 1067 01:17:56,120 --> 01:18:01,800 Speaker 1: do a good job. So, for example, Cat Seamans went 1068 01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:08,760 Speaker 1: to them and warners, do you decide Bob Marley is 1069 01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:11,280 Speaker 1: going to be the next big thing? Or you say, well, 1070 01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:13,960 Speaker 1: this is another guy I can work with. It happened 1071 01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:21,360 Speaker 1: by chance again where somebody rang me and said could 1072 01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:24,320 Speaker 1: you do me a favor? I said, what is it? Said? 1073 01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:29,240 Speaker 1: Could you could you meet with Bob Marley and the 1074 01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:33,880 Speaker 1: Whalers because they're sound stranded in England and they don't 1075 01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:37,679 Speaker 1: have their airfare back to Jamaica because the manager they 1076 01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:42,559 Speaker 1: had had given them there yeah budget to get back 1077 01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:48,679 Speaker 1: to Jamaica. So I said, okay. I said okay because 1078 01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:53,439 Speaker 1: three days before Jimmy Cliff, who I've been working with 1079 01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:57,120 Speaker 1: for ages, and it was all important because you know, 1080 01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:01,559 Speaker 1: I got into to go and do the film harder 1081 01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:05,559 Speaker 1: they come, because I felt that could bring the you know, 1082 01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:11,559 Speaker 1: the Jamaican music scene, m hope open to the world 1083 01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:17,000 Speaker 1: more so. And he did that and he acted in that, 1084 01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:19,400 Speaker 1: and he did really really good in that, but he 1085 01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:23,720 Speaker 1: didn't make any money on it because the film, you know, 1086 01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:29,559 Speaker 1: the film came out some time later. So when he 1087 01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:34,200 Speaker 1: had been sort of I had told him previously that 1088 01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:41,000 Speaker 1: you know that that I've got to re read tell 1089 01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:44,639 Speaker 1: you this because what what had happened with Jimmy Cliff 1090 01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:48,960 Speaker 1: was that E M I wanted to sign him and 1091 01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:52,280 Speaker 1: then at the same time as when Perry Hinson wanted 1092 01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:55,800 Speaker 1: to make the film and I suggested that he should 1093 01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:59,680 Speaker 1: really do the film. Don't sign am I, because do 1094 01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:03,559 Speaker 1: the film and you'll still make money with with me. 1095 01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:07,160 Speaker 1: So he did the film. But the film came on 1096 01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:09,000 Speaker 1: and off and on and off and on and off, 1097 01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:11,679 Speaker 1: and it took a very long time and he didn't 1098 01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:14,679 Speaker 1: make any money. When when the year old came by, 1099 01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:17,800 Speaker 1: and he hadn't made any money, and he was absolutely 1100 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:21,200 Speaker 1: within his right to say, well, now I'm going to 1101 01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:23,679 Speaker 1: go to e m I because you told me I wouldn't. 1102 01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:29,600 Speaker 1: I didn't. And so when he did say that, I 1103 01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:33,080 Speaker 1: was I was upset. But he was within his rights 1104 01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:37,080 Speaker 1: completely and that was that, and I was very upset. 1105 01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:40,080 Speaker 1: And then the next day is when I get this 1106 01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:43,920 Speaker 1: call from the person asking if I would meet with 1107 01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:49,280 Speaker 1: Bob Marley and and funny way that and he's a 1108 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:53,559 Speaker 1: toash because they all stranded in London, and I said yes, 1109 01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:58,680 Speaker 1: and so they came by. He came to see me, 1110 01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:03,840 Speaker 1: and they walked in like kings. You know, they didn't 1111 01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:07,240 Speaker 1: look like they were busted or anything. They were strong, 1112 01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:13,120 Speaker 1: definitely strong. And I chatted to them for a bit 1113 01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:18,360 Speaker 1: and I asked them what their plans are and one 1114 01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:20,880 Speaker 1: of them said that I think. Bunny said that way 1115 01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:25,639 Speaker 1: wanted to get on American black radio, and I said, 1116 01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:27,120 Speaker 1: I didn't think you have a hope of getting on 1117 01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:31,040 Speaker 1: American black radio. So and it just came out of 1118 01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:34,479 Speaker 1: my mouth way too fast, and it should have done. 1119 01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:39,960 Speaker 1: I guess they were very upset that said that, you know, 1120 01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:45,479 Speaker 1: Pizza and Bunny, and then Bob piped up and said, Bob, what, 1121 01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:50,200 Speaker 1: but what do you think? And then said, I think 1122 01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:54,719 Speaker 1: I think I think you should we'll have a black 1123 01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:57,760 Speaker 1: rock act, position yourself as a kind of black rock 1124 01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:06,040 Speaker 1: act rather than keep doing just to making music. So 1125 01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:13,040 Speaker 1: there was a mix there. Bob saw it and agreed it, 1126 01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:18,040 Speaker 1: and the other two didn't agree, and the other two 1127 01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:23,160 Speaker 1: sort of then split and Bob stayed on, but they 1128 01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,960 Speaker 1: all they all stayed on as friends and everything. But 1129 01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:30,920 Speaker 1: that's that's really how that happens. Okay, catch a Fire 1130 01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:34,720 Speaker 1: is the first album. What do you do to make 1131 01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:40,640 Speaker 1: it sound more rock rock radio friendly? I got a 1132 01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:46,599 Speaker 1: guitarists from from Corwayne Perkins from muscle shows. I've been 1133 01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:52,320 Speaker 1: working with him in muscle shows, brilliant and I just 1134 01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:56,080 Speaker 1: wanted they wanted that. I wanted that kind of feel. 1135 01:22:57,120 --> 01:23:01,960 Speaker 1: And there was another keyboard player. Uh who also was 1136 01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:07,080 Speaker 1: you know a musician not not not not just reggae 1137 01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:11,920 Speaker 1: musician and he he was on it. So Bob Marley 1138 01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:16,720 Speaker 1: makes multiple albums, all too great reviews. But it's a 1139 01:23:16,960 --> 01:23:24,240 Speaker 1: very very slow build. What was it like from the inside? Uh, 1140 01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:28,559 Speaker 1: solid is all I can say. You know. I wasn't. 1141 01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:32,360 Speaker 1: I wasn't. It wasn't in a rush. I just felt 1142 01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:37,559 Speaker 1: it was something that could could really grow because it 1143 01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:41,000 Speaker 1: was growing, you know, it was just it didn't it 1144 01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:47,840 Speaker 1: didn't explode, It just grew. It's still growing. And to 1145 01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:52,640 Speaker 1: what degreed you believe the live album from the Lyceum 1146 01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:55,080 Speaker 1: put him over the top, which is my perspective, but 1147 01:23:55,400 --> 01:24:01,439 Speaker 1: you're inside the building, so to speak. Yes, well that 1148 01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:04,760 Speaker 1: was a key thing again one of those things that 1149 01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:08,880 Speaker 1: happened by chance, because he was doing a gig about 1150 01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:15,680 Speaker 1: a month before that show in l A at the Roxy. 1151 01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:21,599 Speaker 1: And when I was watching it and it was it 1152 01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:24,559 Speaker 1: was it was quite something because I was it was 1153 01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:26,720 Speaker 1: so important, you know, I called it for what I 1154 01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:29,760 Speaker 1: knew to be there and everything, how important it was. 1155 01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,240 Speaker 1: And then and then when Bob and then came out 1156 01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:37,400 Speaker 1: to play, they didn't play, you know, he didn't he 1157 01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:41,120 Speaker 1: had his back to the audience was like rehearsing, and 1158 01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:44,559 Speaker 1: that fo sake, it started when he's going to get 1159 01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:48,000 Speaker 1: started and everything. And eventually when he did turn around 1160 01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:52,920 Speaker 1: and start, the audience sort of stood up and things 1161 01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:58,640 Speaker 1: like that. It's it's that it was very scary to 1162 01:24:58,720 --> 01:25:01,760 Speaker 1: me because it was such an important thing, and I 1163 01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:04,880 Speaker 1: was really worried that it wasn't going to work. But 1164 01:25:06,040 --> 01:25:09,000 Speaker 1: they'd say when it when it turned around and started, 1165 01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:15,480 Speaker 1: it worked. And we're talking about the Lyceum now, the Lyceum. 1166 01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:22,920 Speaker 1: I called London that that same evening because that same evening, 1167 01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:30,880 Speaker 1: in the in the back of the theater, theater, back 1168 01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:35,519 Speaker 1: back of the club, in one corner, a lot of 1169 01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:39,920 Speaker 1: girls were all singing, no woman, no crying, and I thought, wow, 1170 01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:44,320 Speaker 1: we must record that, must record them when they play 1171 01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:48,240 Speaker 1: in London. So I contacted the Stones and booked the 1172 01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:55,599 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones, and Rolling Stones said the mobile studio, and 1173 01:25:55,880 --> 01:26:00,360 Speaker 1: that's what happened. We wrote. Okay, you know, hard to 1174 01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:04,360 Speaker 1: discern the truth, but I remember when Bob got cancer, 1175 01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:09,479 Speaker 1: the word was that he amputated his foot. He would 1176 01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:12,679 Speaker 1: have survived, but he wouldn't let them. What's the true story. 1177 01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:17,880 Speaker 1: That's the true story. There's no way he would he 1178 01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:23,719 Speaker 1: would have his toe amputated. Why because he loved sucking 1179 01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:29,639 Speaker 1: as much as he loved music. And how did he 1180 01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:42,839 Speaker 1: handle the inevitable end. He he handled it very obviously. 1181 01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:46,000 Speaker 1: It was all it was all very sad because he was, 1182 01:26:46,439 --> 01:26:48,320 Speaker 1: you know, there was nothing good shape. I went to 1183 01:26:48,360 --> 01:26:50,519 Speaker 1: see him a couple of times when he was in Germany. 1184 01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:56,519 Speaker 1: H he was, it was something good shape, you know. 1185 01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:02,040 Speaker 1: Did he he ever expressed regret that he didn't have 1186 01:27:02,160 --> 01:27:18,240 Speaker 1: his toe ampudated? No? No, m okay. So, uh, how 1187 01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:20,599 Speaker 1: did you decide to build a studio a campus point? 1188 01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:24,200 Speaker 1: I knew I didn't want to be recording in Jamaica, 1189 01:27:26,080 --> 01:27:27,960 Speaker 1: there was I don't know, I don't know. I don't 1190 01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:33,120 Speaker 1: know why I started the studio then in Nassa. I 1191 01:27:33,200 --> 01:27:37,280 Speaker 1: mean I know a reason why, and that was because 1192 01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:41,000 Speaker 1: you know, when you when you there's studios in a 1193 01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:44,280 Speaker 1: city that tend to be a lot of people come 1194 01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:46,559 Speaker 1: and hang around, and you get too many people hanging 1195 01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:51,880 Speaker 1: around and that can be really a nightmare. In Nassa, 1196 01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:56,840 Speaker 1: there was nobody, so there was nobody to kind of 1197 01:27:56,840 --> 01:27:58,960 Speaker 1: interfere and come in and come out. And I got 1198 01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:00,640 Speaker 1: this tune and I got that, and I like this 1199 01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:03,439 Speaker 1: more and that and stuff like that. I wanted. I 1200 01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:11,040 Speaker 1: wanted somewhere which was just away from anywhere, and and 1201 01:28:11,160 --> 01:28:15,479 Speaker 1: it worked. It worked. We had some great recordings there. 1202 01:28:16,040 --> 01:28:19,920 Speaker 1: How did Fly and Robbie get involved. I brought them in. 1203 01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:25,160 Speaker 1: I brought them in, absolutely. I brought them in to 1204 01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:29,360 Speaker 1: work with Grace because I wanted to you know, Grace 1205 01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:36,519 Speaker 1: Jones's first record so quite well, second record, so half 1206 01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:39,400 Speaker 1: of that, third record, so half of that. So I 1207 01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:46,040 Speaker 1: thought we should should I should change producers and and 1208 01:28:46,160 --> 01:28:51,639 Speaker 1: decided to make myself a producer. So that's that's that's 1209 01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:55,519 Speaker 1: what I did. Really, I I wanted to bring the 1210 01:28:55,600 --> 01:29:03,639 Speaker 1: Jamaican Jamaican rhythm section and Jamaican that musicians and bring 1211 01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:11,880 Speaker 1: in from Europe a musician who played an instrument called 1212 01:29:11,960 --> 01:29:15,559 Speaker 1: profits At the time, it was a new instrument and 1213 01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:20,519 Speaker 1: he had relieved made one record which had been a 1214 01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:24,680 Speaker 1: huge hit throughout Europe. So I got hold of him, 1215 01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:27,400 Speaker 1: got him to come and they also I got the 1216 01:29:27,439 --> 01:29:32,840 Speaker 1: guitarists who played on Merry and Faithful record, which is 1217 01:29:33,280 --> 01:29:36,360 Speaker 1: a beautiful record if you don't know it, about the 1218 01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:42,080 Speaker 1: Broken English record. Yes, the phenomenal record. So I brought 1219 01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:46,759 Speaker 1: him down and it was it was a risk because 1220 01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:52,000 Speaker 1: you know Jamaican musicians that they can be tough, you know. 1221 01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:54,639 Speaker 1: And so they arrived at the studio and he has 1222 01:29:55,760 --> 01:30:00,880 Speaker 1: Wally Badaroux who is from West Africa, very effeat um 1223 01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:06,519 Speaker 1: pitch black guy, very very classy, and then there was 1224 01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:12,679 Speaker 1: Barry Reynolds and you know, looked at first it could 1225 01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:15,040 Speaker 1: be a little bit of a problem because they weren't 1226 01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:21,160 Speaker 1: kind of getting on at first. And then and then 1227 01:30:22,120 --> 01:30:25,760 Speaker 1: I I turned up and I think I managed to 1228 01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:31,559 Speaker 1: pull them together. And what I did was take this 1229 01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:41,599 Speaker 1: large picture which Jean Paul Good, Grace's boyfriend, baby father, 1230 01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:46,360 Speaker 1: et cetera, had made this record, I'm sorry, made this 1231 01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:51,639 Speaker 1: art and it was it was a group of great 1232 01:30:51,680 --> 01:30:55,600 Speaker 1: photograph of Grace dressed like a sort of g I 1233 01:30:57,080 --> 01:31:00,240 Speaker 1: sitting down like a sort of gr really tough thing, 1234 01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:04,200 Speaker 1: and I had didn't blow it up very big and 1235 01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:07,840 Speaker 1: in the studio and I told I told the band, 1236 01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:10,760 Speaker 1: I said, the record we're going to be doing, it's 1237 01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:16,400 Speaker 1: got to look like this picture. So um so everybody thought, 1238 01:31:16,439 --> 01:31:20,040 Speaker 1: I guess it was a bit bit nuts, but that's 1239 01:31:20,080 --> 01:31:25,080 Speaker 1: what we did. And in the first day it looked 1240 01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:27,320 Speaker 1: as if it wasn't gonna work, because, you know, they 1241 01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:32,679 Speaker 1: Wally Bad and the Jamaicans were really hitting it off. 1242 01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:37,439 Speaker 1: And then the second day, after Wally Barou had played 1243 01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:43,400 Speaker 1: something they couldn't believe, you know, how talented he was. 1244 01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:50,720 Speaker 1: They hadn't experienced profit equipment before, so they were they 1245 01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:56,320 Speaker 1: were certainly behind it. And and from then on it 1246 01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:59,680 Speaker 1: was just it was it could not have been, that 1247 01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:03,320 Speaker 1: could not have been better. We recorded, We just kept recording, 1248 01:32:03,439 --> 01:32:08,360 Speaker 1: recording three albums pretty much. Okay, what about Robert Palmer? 1249 01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:13,880 Speaker 1: Ultimately did his cocaine use kill him? I think it 1250 01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:22,559 Speaker 1: damaged him, Yes, yes, yes, and it's really sad he Honestly, 1251 01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:28,000 Speaker 1: he's one of the best of all. I learned a 1252 01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:32,519 Speaker 1: huge amount from him. I learned anything that I had 1253 01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:38,720 Speaker 1: known and learned was from him about African music. So 1254 01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:43,439 Speaker 1: it was really through him that I signed Kizzania day first, 1255 01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:48,559 Speaker 1: and then Sealef Guitar and angel Ki Show and all 1256 01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:54,680 Speaker 1: the different I got totally into the African world. But 1257 01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:58,680 Speaker 1: he he knew the music real he was so he 1258 01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:02,639 Speaker 1: was so smart, so smart that he had a rotten 1259 01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:10,320 Speaker 1: manager guy who was a rotten guy. H it goes, 1260 01:33:10,479 --> 01:33:14,599 Speaker 1: this goes on there, probably because the person still around, 1261 01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:18,760 Speaker 1: but it was a terrible terrible guy. Terrible terrible guy, 1262 01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:24,000 Speaker 1: and you know, encouraged Robert to do what he should 1263 01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:29,120 Speaker 1: not be doing and didn't do anything about really keep 1264 01:33:29,200 --> 01:33:33,439 Speaker 1: him under control or getting him under control any any 1265 01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:38,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure it could have been done if the person 1266 01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:43,320 Speaker 1: that really cared enough for they didn't care. And it 1267 01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:45,920 Speaker 1: was very sad. I mean, I love Robert prom he 1268 01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:48,080 Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, he felt like a brother 1269 01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:52,360 Speaker 1: to me. I learned. I learned a lot from him, 1270 01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:54,840 Speaker 1: I really did. And how do you feel when he 1271 01:33:54,880 --> 01:33:58,679 Speaker 1: had left the label? I was upset, he was upset. 1272 01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:03,160 Speaker 1: He didn't he didn't he didn't want to his manage 1273 01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:07,880 Speaker 1: and moved in there. Okay, so you have this great 1274 01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:11,040 Speaker 1: success with you two, which is on distributed on Warner, 1275 01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:14,720 Speaker 1: and then you don't have enough money to pay them 1276 01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:18,640 Speaker 1: the royalties ultimately given percentage of the company. Go a 1277 01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:25,000 Speaker 1: little deeper into what happened there. Well, one evening I 1278 01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:32,200 Speaker 1: went back to my apartment in New York and I've 1279 01:34:32,320 --> 01:34:36,520 Speaker 1: stitch on the radio and I heard the most incredible 1280 01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:45,280 Speaker 1: drumming by by a drama musician. It was. It was 1281 01:34:45,320 --> 01:34:51,600 Speaker 1: a song, but the drum pattern was just incredible and 1282 01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:54,200 Speaker 1: I just couldn't leave it. I've never heard anything so good. 1283 01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:59,760 Speaker 1: So I tracked down where it came from, and I've 1284 01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:04,639 Speaker 1: on that it came from Washington, d C. So I thought, well, 1285 01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:07,120 Speaker 1: I'd go down and check it out. So I went 1286 01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:11,040 Speaker 1: down and I checked checked it out. And there was 1287 01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:13,400 Speaker 1: a whole scene coming out of Washington, d C. At 1288 01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:20,559 Speaker 1: that time. But it was very tough. I mean it was, 1289 01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:29,640 Speaker 1: you know, it was very dangerous at that time. And 1290 01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:32,920 Speaker 1: I I heard this one band, I thought they were great, 1291 01:35:32,960 --> 01:35:35,519 Speaker 1: and then I saw another band. I thought they were great, 1292 01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:41,040 Speaker 1: and I thought, you know something, maybe what what we 1293 01:35:41,080 --> 01:35:43,519 Speaker 1: should do is what we did when the hard did 1294 01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:48,760 Speaker 1: they come to do a film which can project what 1295 01:35:49,200 --> 01:35:54,000 Speaker 1: story is all about. And so that's what I did. 1296 01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:58,000 Speaker 1: I decided to do and I decided to do it 1297 01:35:58,040 --> 01:36:01,840 Speaker 1: with a with a partner, a man, a good friend 1298 01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:06,520 Speaker 1: of mine called Jeremy Thomas, was a really excellent filmmaker, 1299 01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:10,880 Speaker 1: and he said he'd helped on it, but he was 1300 01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:17,280 Speaker 1: waiting for a film that he had been prepared for, 1301 01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:21,439 Speaker 1: which was called The Last Emperor, and he was waiting 1302 01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:25,320 Speaker 1: until they could start shooting on that. So he said, 1303 01:36:25,320 --> 01:36:28,599 Speaker 1: I might have to leave sometimes. So anyhow we got 1304 01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:34,559 Speaker 1: started and then boom, the last temper suddenly got the 1305 01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:38,439 Speaker 1: girl ahead to get financed and get done, and he left. 1306 01:36:39,240 --> 01:36:45,960 Speaker 1: And I know nothing about making movies, and so you know, 1307 01:36:46,200 --> 01:36:50,759 Speaker 1: I put some more money in when things weren't doing 1308 01:36:50,760 --> 01:36:56,920 Speaker 1: too good they are et cetera. And ultimately it's you know, 1309 01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:02,320 Speaker 1: the film wasn't really much good and so the music 1310 01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:06,519 Speaker 1: didn't get any attention, didn't happen, and that was that, 1311 01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:15,160 Speaker 1: and that's what that's what ultimately caused me to so 1312 01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:19,599 Speaker 1: so iland and do that to the arrangement I did 1313 01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:24,439 Speaker 1: with them, you too, first, you know, So I mean 1314 01:37:24,479 --> 01:37:29,559 Speaker 1: nobody got hurt. Okay, in retrospect, nobody got hurt. What 1315 01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:31,880 Speaker 1: happens when you tell Paul McGinnis, I don't have the 1316 01:37:31,880 --> 01:37:35,880 Speaker 1: money to pay you. All I knowed there was no 1317 01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:41,400 Speaker 1: there was no bad vibes. It was you know, it 1318 01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:45,160 Speaker 1: was something which was wrong and could be fixed. And 1319 01:37:45,200 --> 01:37:48,200 Speaker 1: so it got fixed. You know. I gave them a 1320 01:37:48,200 --> 01:37:52,760 Speaker 1: piece of the company and everything. Okay, So that was 1321 01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:54,840 Speaker 1: part of the deal. You said, listen, I can't afford 1322 01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:57,400 Speaker 1: to pay you, and I'll give you part of the company. 1323 01:37:57,720 --> 01:38:00,439 Speaker 1: It wasn't like you were negotiating back and forth. He said, 1324 01:38:00,479 --> 01:38:06,240 Speaker 1: I'd I'd like a piece of the company. No, So 1325 01:38:06,280 --> 01:38:09,680 Speaker 1: how did you ultimately decide to sell? I think I 1326 01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:13,920 Speaker 1: think because I really screwed that whole thing up. You know, 1327 01:38:14,080 --> 01:38:17,320 Speaker 1: the It was a bit of bad luck. But I've 1328 01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:19,080 Speaker 1: had a lot of good luck, but it was a 1329 01:38:19,080 --> 01:38:24,400 Speaker 1: bit of bad luck. Thing of the the last temper 1330 01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:31,120 Speaker 1: suddenly being available where it was some time before it was, 1331 01:38:32,400 --> 01:38:34,879 Speaker 1: they needs to raise all the finance to get it started. 1332 01:38:35,720 --> 01:38:41,120 Speaker 1: And because if Jeremy had been around, um, I'm sure 1333 01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:44,040 Speaker 1: one could have done something from that film and the 1334 01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:48,920 Speaker 1: music from the d C at the period in that 1335 01:38:49,040 --> 01:38:52,080 Speaker 1: period that had some wicked music, really really great music, 1336 01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:57,080 Speaker 1: could have done something. So ultimately you go to work 1337 01:38:57,160 --> 01:39:00,400 Speaker 1: for PolyGram the purchaser for ten years, then you go 1338 01:39:00,439 --> 01:39:05,160 Speaker 1: in depending and then you're done. Do you feel that 1339 01:39:05,200 --> 01:39:07,719 Speaker 1: the whole time you were involved in the music business 1340 01:39:07,800 --> 01:39:11,639 Speaker 1: was a moment in time or you could replicate it today? 1341 01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:16,320 Speaker 1: Do you miss it? I think I miss it because 1342 01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:24,719 Speaker 1: of other things that I've really gotten into. Um, because 1343 01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:30,920 Speaker 1: if it was going to stay active in the music business, 1344 01:39:31,200 --> 01:39:33,960 Speaker 1: you've got to stay active in the music business. I mean, 1345 01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:38,240 Speaker 1: you can't how fast it and you've got to stay 1346 01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:41,680 Speaker 1: with it and follow up with it and everything. Otherwise 1347 01:39:42,479 --> 01:39:46,040 Speaker 1: you let people down and I don't want to do that. 1348 01:39:46,960 --> 01:39:52,719 Speaker 1: So no, that was that was That was pretty much. 1349 01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:58,160 Speaker 1: You know, I mean, I'm doing what I'm doing now, 1350 01:39:58,200 --> 01:40:04,240 Speaker 1: which I love doing. You know, they and the property 1351 01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:08,519 Speaker 1: we have in Jamaica. You know, it's it's it's great. 1352 01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:14,880 Speaker 1: It's really great. Means a lot of people, Yeah, learned 1353 01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:19,200 Speaker 1: a lot. It's great. I love it. And to what 1354 01:40:19,320 --> 01:40:21,760 Speaker 1: degreed do you still keep up on music and listen 1355 01:40:21,760 --> 01:40:26,120 Speaker 1: to music. I don't sort of chase it all the time, 1356 01:40:27,360 --> 01:40:30,400 Speaker 1: but if somebody, if someone is says sends something to 1357 01:40:30,439 --> 01:40:33,080 Speaker 1: me or something, I'm immediately going to listen to it. 1358 01:40:34,040 --> 01:40:37,240 Speaker 1: Um whether I'll feel it or not feel it, you 1359 01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:41,960 Speaker 1: know what I mean. There wasn't an incredible record made 1360 01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:46,000 Speaker 1: in Jamaica last year, which is really one of the 1361 01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:49,880 Speaker 1: best records I've ever heard come out of Jamaica. I 1362 01:40:49,920 --> 01:40:52,320 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it, but it was really 1363 01:40:52,360 --> 01:40:57,240 Speaker 1: really great. This course sets it up and if you 1364 01:40:57,400 --> 01:40:59,640 Speaker 1: had been involved, would it have been much more commercially 1365 01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:04,200 Speaker 1: success us all, Well, yes, I think so. But but 1366 01:41:04,479 --> 01:41:06,240 Speaker 1: I would have had to have been involved in it 1367 01:41:06,280 --> 01:41:08,840 Speaker 1: from the beginning of it rather than by the end 1368 01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:10,960 Speaker 1: of it, because by the end of it, when it's 1369 01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:13,720 Speaker 1: ready to be released and come out, it has all 1370 01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:16,600 Speaker 1: the people around it and everybody's in place, and the 1371 01:41:16,720 --> 01:41:21,920 Speaker 1: managers here and and the publishers there and they do 1372 01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:24,960 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, Okay, So if you 1373 01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:28,720 Speaker 1: look back on your career and it's astounding, one of 1374 01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:32,360 Speaker 1: the most legendary, if not the most legendary independent record 1375 01:41:32,439 --> 01:41:35,400 Speaker 1: label at the time when music drove the culture. Is 1376 01:41:35,439 --> 01:41:38,840 Speaker 1: it swy generous you were just one guy doing it? 1377 01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:42,040 Speaker 1: Or can we take lessons from that? Can you give 1378 01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:45,519 Speaker 1: any lessons to the younger generation? Well, I think that's it. 1379 01:41:45,640 --> 01:41:48,559 Speaker 1: You know, if you find something that you really love doing, 1380 01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:54,360 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the luckiest thing in the world, and 1381 01:41:54,360 --> 01:41:57,200 Speaker 1: and one works on it and you have your ups 1382 01:41:57,200 --> 01:42:01,320 Speaker 1: and downs and things like that, but um, you know, 1383 01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:06,640 Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's so special you know when you 1384 01:42:06,800 --> 01:42:14,360 Speaker 1: when when you're you see somebody performing and you know 1385 01:42:14,439 --> 01:42:17,000 Speaker 1: where they've started and how they've come from and how 1386 01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:21,760 Speaker 1: they've evolved. I Mean, the person I'm so proud of 1387 01:42:21,880 --> 01:42:24,840 Speaker 1: is Angelie Kisa I don't know if you know, No, 1388 01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:31,200 Speaker 1: sure you do, right. Well, she's fantastic. You know, I 1389 01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:37,600 Speaker 1: signed on with her very early. I I didn't I 1390 01:42:37,720 --> 01:42:39,840 Speaker 1: didn't tell her what to do directly what to do, 1391 01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:43,040 Speaker 1: but you know, I was very supported to all the 1392 01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:47,479 Speaker 1: way through and just slowly, in short ashes, just developed herself. 1393 01:42:48,040 --> 01:42:51,040 Speaker 1: And I feel proud of that. And I love that, 1394 01:42:51,520 --> 01:42:57,840 Speaker 1: you know, and and and I love music. I just do. Okay, Chris, 1395 01:42:57,880 --> 01:42:59,720 Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for taking the 1396 01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:03,599 Speaker 1: time I'm telling your story, giving us this insight from 1397 01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:07,960 Speaker 1: Golden Eyed. Thanks so much. Thank you. Until next time. 1398 01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:31,720 Speaker 1: This is Bob left sets H