Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, There's Chuck.
Speaker 1: There's Josh, the other Josh who has now become our
Speaker 1: go to guest producer, and this is short stuff. Enough
Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, we fired Frank the chair and the
Speaker 1: little water dipping bird that pressed record, which was Yeah,
Speaker 1: the bird really started to phone things in, don't you think?
Speaker 1: I think so, Chuck, Speaking of phoning things in, imagine
Speaker 1: having to do public speaking. I can't imagine what that
Speaker 1: must be like. Do you remember. I mean, we've done
Speaker 1: plenty of talks, we've done live shows. That's just kind
Speaker 1: of part of what we do. Do you remember them
Speaker 1: crippling stage fright I used to get. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: we both had varying levels early on. It's not like
Speaker 1: I was always a cool cucumber. You seemed like it.
Speaker 1: Well that you didn't go into the bathroom with me
Speaker 1: moments before showtime. I always wanted to, But yeah, you were.
Speaker 1: You were that through me. Um. You always were a
Speaker 1: bit more nervous. But I think you're just wound a
Speaker 1: little tighter in general. But we we both overcame that
Speaker 1: for the most part, don't you think. Yeah? Yeah, And
Speaker 1: you know how we overcame it. I can tell you how,
Speaker 1: and I know that you know how, but let's tell
Speaker 1: everybody else through through basically exposure therapy, just doing it.
Speaker 1: And it turns out what we're talking about is is
Speaker 1: just public speaking in general. But um, the fear of
Speaker 1: public speaking almost goes hand in hand with public speaking.
Speaker 1: I saw a stat that said that people of people
Speaker 1: in the world have a fear of public speaking. I'm
Speaker 1: surprised it's not more than that. To be honest, I
Speaker 1: am too. And then there's that old trope, the idea
Speaker 1: that there's some poll taken somewhere of what Americans fear
Speaker 1: the most, and number one was public speaking and number
Speaker 1: two was death. And Jerry Seinfeld turned it into that
Speaker 1: men that most people would rather be in the casket
Speaker 1: than giving the eulogy because of that fear of public speaking.
Speaker 1: And there's a word for it too, it's called glossophobia,
Speaker 1: which is great work. Yeah, I mean, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a real thing, and we should point out that it
Speaker 1: is a legit um anxiety disorder, a social anxiety disorder
Speaker 1: for for most people. Um, Like I had a bit
Speaker 1: of the jitters. I don't think I was had a
Speaker 1: technical I was a technical glossophob um. But for a
Speaker 1: lot of people, it's not just like I'm nervous, my
Speaker 1: palms are sweaty. For some people, it's debilitating to the
Speaker 1: point where they will structure their life so that they
Speaker 1: never have to do that, never have a job where
Speaker 1: they have to speak in front of like a conference room,
Speaker 1: you know, right, or small handful of people, basically anybody.
Speaker 1: They always want to be the ones in the audience.
Speaker 1: They don't want to be the ones giving the talk
Speaker 1: so much so, like you said, they'll they'll structure their
Speaker 1: their life around avoiding it. Avoidance is like the number
Speaker 1: one go to thing that people do when they suffer
Speaker 1: from glossophobia. They just do whatever they can to not
Speaker 1: give that talk. That's right, And like you said that,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a subset of a social anxiety disorder,
Speaker 1: which is really at base a social anxiety disorder is
Speaker 1: a UM. It's a performance fear. It's the fear of
Speaker 1: being judged and or failing. Um, that's what it is
Speaker 1: among your peers. Yeah, it's the it's the fear of
Speaker 1: the result, not like I mean, it manifests its ways
Speaker 1: as you like walk up on that stage but what
Speaker 1: you're really afraid of is saying the wrong thing, uh,
Speaker 1: feeling like you've said something dumb, being judged as not
Speaker 1: knowing what you're talking about. And that's why it helped us,
Speaker 1: because we have a very forgiving, loving, loyal audience whenever
Speaker 1: we go out to do live shows. It makes it
Speaker 1: a lot easier than And we've done talks where we
Speaker 1: weren't full in a room full of stuff you should know, fans,
Speaker 1: and those are always more nerve racking for me. Well,
Speaker 1: they also always went really poorly too. You're kind of right.
Speaker 1: But one of the problems though with this is is
Speaker 1: like that that you're not only your fear, you know,
Speaker 1: not knowing what you're talking about or being judged and failing,
Speaker 1: but also catastrophically screwing up, like forgetting your place, maybe
Speaker 1: bursting into tears and running off of stage, and so
Speaker 1: you fear these things. But the insidious thing about you know,
Speaker 1: glossophobia are really any social anxiety disorder, is that you
Speaker 1: come to fear the fear. Right. It's not like you
Speaker 1: experience just the fear while you're up on stage. You
Speaker 1: you fear this, this failure, this whatever it is you're
Speaker 1: you're having to do for a very long stretch ahead
Speaker 1: of time. And that is the most crippling part of
Speaker 1: any social anxiety disorder, the fear of the fear of
Speaker 1: so aciated with it, and that's what leads to the avoidance. Right,
Speaker 1: So let's take a quick break and we're gonna come
Speaker 1: back and talk about how this manifests itself in what
Speaker 1: you can do about it right after this. If you
Speaker 1: want to know, then you're in luck. Just listen to Chuck.
Speaker 1: All right, So you gotta give a talk at your
Speaker 1: school or whatever, which I did, by the way, my
Speaker 1: very first like a big in front of people speaking
Speaker 1: and not just like classroom size, was when I ran
Speaker 1: for a vice president of student council. I had to
Speaker 1: speak in front of the entire school in the gym
Speaker 1: and it was pretty nerve. Ranking new locker combos for everyone?
Speaker 1: Was that your platform? No? What was it? Brady or no?
Speaker 1: A Happy Days? Was angled parking? That was the big
Speaker 1: thing that Richie was running on, Was it? Really? Yeah? Man,
Speaker 1: that is a it's an arcane trivia question right there.
Speaker 1: I have no idea how that's stuck with me. But um,
Speaker 1: what you will feel in your body, which is what
Speaker 1: I felt back then and what I don't so much
Speaker 1: feel now is on edge. Um, if it's really bad,
Speaker 1: sense of panic and doom, your heart's gonna be beating faster.
Speaker 1: These are like literal physical changes. You will be sweating,
Speaker 1: especially if you're me. You might be trembling, you might
Speaker 1: feel weak and dizzy. Uh. You might have trouble sleeping
Speaker 1: in the days proceeding for weeks or weeks. Um, I
Speaker 1: have trouble sleeping after shows because of just the adrenaline,
Speaker 1: just because you're so amped. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's definitely a come down stage. But all this is
Speaker 1: actually science and physiological things that are going on in
Speaker 1: your body, isn't that right? Yeah, And the reason why
Speaker 1: you're having this physiological reaction is because the whole thing
Speaker 1: any social anxiety disorder, but also a glossophobias, since it's
Speaker 1: a subset of that is centered around the amygdala, which
Speaker 1: regulates our emotions. And for some reason, they think it
Speaker 1: starts in childhood, probably where there's just some sort of
Speaker 1: you know, innate shyness that doesn't um dealt with and
Speaker 1: just grows and grows and grows as an adult, but
Speaker 1: you start to associate performance with fear and the amygdala.
Speaker 1: Then when it senses that there's some sort of performance
Speaker 1: impending starts to freak you out. It associates performance with
Speaker 1: that fear and not only things that have gone wrong
Speaker 1: in the past, but all the things that could go
Speaker 1: wrong in the future, and releases the same stress hormones
Speaker 1: that it releases. If a bear suddenly shows itself to
Speaker 1: you and takes a swipe at you with with its clause,
Speaker 1: which means that the fight or flight uh response is
Speaker 1: kicked in, So you're having a physiological fight or flight response,
Speaker 1: which is why you feel like you want to run
Speaker 1: from wherever. The place you have to give the talk
Speaker 1: is just run forever, quite job, start a new life,
Speaker 1: maybe grow a mustache as a disguise. Yeah. And as
Speaker 1: a kid, it's like it can very easily be avoided
Speaker 1: instead of dealt with. And then that fear just never
Speaker 1: has overcome and you become an adult who has that
Speaker 1: same fear uh and you walk a really fine line
Speaker 1: as a parent. I'm already seeing this with like, now
Speaker 1: you don't have to do that. If you don't, you know,
Speaker 1: if it freaks you out too much, or you know,
Speaker 1: you don't want to be the fifties parent either. That's like, no,
Speaker 1: get on that high dive and jump right, you know,
Speaker 1: like they back then they thought they were helping. Like
Speaker 1: my dad, I was scared of roller coasters and he
Speaker 1: told me, I'm not bringing you back anymore than if
Speaker 1: you don't get on this roller coaster right now. And
Speaker 1: I did and I loved it. However, I mean, people
Speaker 1: don't parent that way anymore. So you really got to
Speaker 1: walk that fine line of encouragement and maybe like it
Speaker 1: might be good if you could overcome this fear without
Speaker 1: traumatizing them at the same time, Right, you have to
Speaker 1: figure out a way to trick them into doing it
Speaker 1: kind of you. There's a lot of trickery involved, I
Speaker 1: can imagine there has to be. That's the there's your
Speaker 1: fine line, there's the balance struck right there. But avoidance
Speaker 1: is not going to solve your problem. And experts say,
Speaker 1: if you want to, if you have to overcome this
Speaker 1: fear or want to, uh, you gotta do what we
Speaker 1: did and you've got to just kind of start doing
Speaker 1: it on a smaller scale ideally, right. So, um, if
Speaker 1: you really really have it bad, and this is say
Speaker 1: like affecting you personally or professionally or whatever. Um, it
Speaker 1: would help probably to go seek a cognitive behavioral therapist
Speaker 1: who's going to help you retrain your brain to see
Speaker 1: things differently so that your brain doesn't associate public speaking
Speaker 1: with abject fear and terror. And the way that you
Speaker 1: do this, like you said, just kind of starting out small,
Speaker 1: maybe giving a speech alone in a room, and then
Speaker 1: moving up to one in front of a friend, then
Speaker 1: a handful of friends, your dog, maybe even first I'll
Speaker 1: bet your dog, wouldn't you. Most dogs aren't very judging usually,
Speaker 1: and then maybe moving up to some thing like toast masters,
Speaker 1: like a supportive group that is that that can really
Speaker 1: help you and give you a chance to give speeches
Speaker 1: in front of other people who are very supportive and
Speaker 1: aren't going to judge you. And then you just keep
Speaker 1: going and pushing yourself and pushing yourself, and by doing
Speaker 1: that over and over again in increasingly um anxiety inducing settings,
Speaker 1: you retrain your brain so that it doesn't associate terror,
Speaker 1: it associates good things instead, like that that being pumped
Speaker 1: up on adrenaline afterwards because you're you're so thrilled with yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've I've been to many weddings where I feel bad
Speaker 1: for the toastmaster that UH was kind of that position
Speaker 1: was shoved onto them, and they it ruins the wedding
Speaker 1: up until that point for them a lot of times,
Speaker 1: because you can just tell they're just like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to do this, man, I've just been going over,
Speaker 1: been writing, and I just always feel so bad. I
Speaker 1: thought you're gonna say it ruins the wedding, Well, it
Speaker 1: ruins their experience right until it's over, and then they
Speaker 1: just get plastered. Right. But on one of the things
Speaker 1: you can do to UM, no matter whether you're performing
Speaker 1: for yourself in a room alone or in front of
Speaker 1: like a room full of people, UM, one way to
Speaker 1: really help yourself is to know the material to be
Speaker 1: prepared and not just memorize it, because if you memorize that,
Speaker 1: you can lose your place and then you're just toast.
Speaker 1: To know the material so much that you can improve
Speaker 1: and add lib whenever needed, because there's such thing as
Speaker 1: hecklers out there and they will try to throw you off.
Speaker 1: But if you know the stuff, you can find your
Speaker 1: place again and be much more comfortable. That's the advice
Speaker 1: I always give to people is if you're nervous, just
Speaker 1: know the material inside now, and then you can start
Speaker 1: to relax and make the jokes that people love. Good advice.
Speaker 1: If your crutches the actual material, then you're in good shape. Right.
Speaker 1: So that's it for public speaking. Get out there and
Speaker 1: speak publicly and in the meantime, this is short stuff out.
Speaker 1: Stuff you should know is production of I Heart Radio.
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