WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Fear of Public Speaking 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.400 Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, There's Chuck. 0:00:07.520 --> 0:00:10.360 There's Josh, the other Josh who has now become our 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.840 go to guest producer, and this is short stuff. Enough 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:17.720 about that. Yeah, we fired Frank the chair and the 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:22.600 little water dipping bird that pressed record, which was Yeah, 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:25.279 the bird really started to phone things in, don't you think? 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:30.240 I think so, Chuck, Speaking of phoning things in, imagine 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.760 having to do public speaking. I can't imagine what that 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:36.360 must be like. Do you remember. I mean, we've done 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.440 plenty of talks, we've done live shows. That's just kind 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.159 of part of what we do. Do you remember them 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.360 crippling stage fright I used to get. Yeah, I mean 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.080 we both had varying levels early on. It's not like 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.040 I was always a cool cucumber. You seemed like it. 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.440 Well that you didn't go into the bathroom with me 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:59.360 moments before showtime. I always wanted to, But yeah, you were. 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:05.080 You were that through me. Um. You always were a 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.080 bit more nervous. But I think you're just wound a 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:11.479 little tighter in general. But we we both overcame that 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:13.920 for the most part, don't you think. Yeah? Yeah, And 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.240 you know how we overcame it. I can tell you how, 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:17.920 and I know that you know how, but let's tell 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:24.160 everybody else through through basically exposure therapy, just doing it. 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:27.000 And it turns out what we're talking about is is 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.640 just public speaking in general. But um, the fear of 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.959 public speaking almost goes hand in hand with public speaking. 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:39.639 I saw a stat that said that people of people 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.880 in the world have a fear of public speaking. I'm 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:45.480 surprised it's not more than that. To be honest, I 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.200 am too. And then there's that old trope, the idea 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.840 that there's some poll taken somewhere of what Americans fear 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.440 the most, and number one was public speaking and number 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.720 two was death. And Jerry Seinfeld turned it into that 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.320 men that most people would rather be in the casket 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:06.200 than giving the eulogy because of that fear of public speaking. 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:09.080 And there's a word for it too, it's called glossophobia, 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.200 which is great work. Yeah, I mean, it's a it's 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.800 a real thing, and we should point out that it 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:21.280 is a legit um anxiety disorder, a social anxiety disorder 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:24.440 for for most people. Um, Like I had a bit 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:26.760 of the jitters. I don't think I was had a 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:31.160 technical I was a technical glossophob um. But for a 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.040 lot of people, it's not just like I'm nervous, my 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:37.280 palms are sweaty. For some people, it's debilitating to the 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.359 point where they will structure their life so that they 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.440 never have to do that, never have a job where 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:47.000 they have to speak in front of like a conference room, 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:51.360 you know, right, or small handful of people, basically anybody. 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.160 They always want to be the ones in the audience. 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:54.919 They don't want to be the ones giving the talk 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:57.880 so much so, like you said, they'll they'll structure their 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:02.400 their life around avoiding it. Avoidance is like the number 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.079 one go to thing that people do when they suffer 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.600 from glossophobia. They just do whatever they can to not 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.560 give that talk. That's right, And like you said that, 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:15.679 it's a it's a subset of a social anxiety disorder, 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:19.880 which is really at base a social anxiety disorder is 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:24.120 a UM. It's a performance fear. It's the fear of 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:28.280 being judged and or failing. Um, that's what it is 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.120 among your peers. Yeah, it's the it's the fear of 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:35.680 the result, not like I mean, it manifests its ways 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:37.720 as you like walk up on that stage but what 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:41.240 you're really afraid of is saying the wrong thing, uh, 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.880 feeling like you've said something dumb, being judged as not 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.840 knowing what you're talking about. And that's why it helped us, 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:53.760 because we have a very forgiving, loving, loyal audience whenever 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:57.160 we go out to do live shows. It makes it 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:01.600 a lot easier than And we've done talks where we 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:03.960 weren't full in a room full of stuff you should know, fans, 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.440 and those are always more nerve racking for me. Well, 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:12.600 they also always went really poorly too. You're kind of right. 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.480 But one of the problems though with this is is 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.560 like that that you're not only your fear, you know, 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.280 not knowing what you're talking about or being judged and failing, 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:26.719 but also catastrophically screwing up, like forgetting your place, maybe 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.040 bursting into tears and running off of stage, and so 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.520 you fear these things. But the insidious thing about you know, 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:37.360 glossophobia are really any social anxiety disorder, is that you 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.719 come to fear the fear. Right. It's not like you 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.719 experience just the fear while you're up on stage. You 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:48.920 you fear this, this failure, this whatever it is you're 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.520 you're having to do for a very long stretch ahead 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:56.120 of time. And that is the most crippling part of 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.680 any social anxiety disorder, the fear of the fear of 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:03.520 so aciated with it, and that's what leads to the avoidance. Right, 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.560 So let's take a quick break and we're gonna come 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.400 back and talk about how this manifests itself in what 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:22.560 you can do about it right after this. If you 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:29.720 want to know, then you're in luck. Just listen to Chuck. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:36.880 All right, So you gotta give a talk at your 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:38.800 school or whatever, which I did, by the way, my 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.440 very first like a big in front of people speaking 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.240 and not just like classroom size, was when I ran 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.160 for a vice president of student council. I had to 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.640 speak in front of the entire school in the gym 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:55.719 and it was pretty nerve. Ranking new locker combos for everyone? 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.680 Was that your platform? No? What was it? Brady or no? 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:00.960 A Happy Days? Was angled parking? That was the big 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.320 thing that Richie was running on, Was it? Really? Yeah? Man, 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.400 that is a it's an arcane trivia question right there. 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.160 I have no idea how that's stuck with me. But um, 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.200 what you will feel in your body, which is what 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.200 I felt back then and what I don't so much 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.840 feel now is on edge. Um, if it's really bad, 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.640 sense of panic and doom, your heart's gonna be beating faster. 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.839 These are like literal physical changes. You will be sweating, 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.840 especially if you're me. You might be trembling, you might 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.000 feel weak and dizzy. Uh. You might have trouble sleeping 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.479 in the days proceeding for weeks or weeks. Um, I 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.440 have trouble sleeping after shows because of just the adrenaline, 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:43.120 just because you're so amped. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.200 there's definitely a come down stage. But all this is 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:49.120 actually science and physiological things that are going on in 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.520 your body, isn't that right? Yeah, And the reason why 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.320 you're having this physiological reaction is because the whole thing 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.680 any social anxiety disorder, but also a glossophobias, since it's 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.640 a subset of that is centered around the amygdala, which 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.360 regulates our emotions. And for some reason, they think it 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.440 starts in childhood, probably where there's just some sort of 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:12.680 you know, innate shyness that doesn't um dealt with and 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.280 just grows and grows and grows as an adult, but 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:21.160 you start to associate performance with fear and the amygdala. 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.000 Then when it senses that there's some sort of performance 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:29.120 impending starts to freak you out. It associates performance with 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.400 that fear and not only things that have gone wrong 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.640 in the past, but all the things that could go 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.920 wrong in the future, and releases the same stress hormones 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.960 that it releases. If a bear suddenly shows itself to 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.160 you and takes a swipe at you with with its clause, 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:49.600 which means that the fight or flight uh response is 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:52.960 kicked in, So you're having a physiological fight or flight response, 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:55.680 which is why you feel like you want to run 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.640 from wherever. The place you have to give the talk 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.480 is just run forever, quite job, start a new life, 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.880 maybe grow a mustache as a disguise. Yeah. And as 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.440 a kid, it's like it can very easily be avoided 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.280 instead of dealt with. And then that fear just never 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.320 has overcome and you become an adult who has that 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.280 same fear uh and you walk a really fine line 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:19.160 as a parent. I'm already seeing this with like, now 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:20.800 you don't have to do that. If you don't, you know, 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.680 if it freaks you out too much, or you know, 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.280 you don't want to be the fifties parent either. That's like, no, 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.840 get on that high dive and jump right, you know, 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:32.800 like they back then they thought they were helping. Like 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.760 my dad, I was scared of roller coasters and he 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.120 told me, I'm not bringing you back anymore than if 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.880 you don't get on this roller coaster right now. And 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.880 I did and I loved it. However, I mean, people 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:47.760 don't parent that way anymore. So you really got to 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.360 walk that fine line of encouragement and maybe like it 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.080 might be good if you could overcome this fear without 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.680 traumatizing them at the same time, Right, you have to 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.720 figure out a way to trick them into doing it 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.960 kind of you. There's a lot of trickery involved, I 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.160 can imagine there has to be. That's the there's your 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.040 fine line, there's the balance struck right there. But avoidance 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.480 is not going to solve your problem. And experts say, 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:12.640 if you want to, if you have to overcome this 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.600 fear or want to, uh, you gotta do what we 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:17.679 did and you've got to just kind of start doing 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.600 it on a smaller scale ideally, right. So, um, if 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.760 you really really have it bad, and this is say 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.680 like affecting you personally or professionally or whatever. Um, it 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.720 would help probably to go seek a cognitive behavioral therapist 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.440 who's going to help you retrain your brain to see 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.520 things differently so that your brain doesn't associate public speaking 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.040 with abject fear and terror. And the way that you 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.720 do this, like you said, just kind of starting out small, 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.560 maybe giving a speech alone in a room, and then 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.040 moving up to one in front of a friend, then 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.000 a handful of friends, your dog, maybe even first I'll 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.320 bet your dog, wouldn't you. Most dogs aren't very judging usually, 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.439 and then maybe moving up to some thing like toast masters, 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.600 like a supportive group that is that that can really 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:08.120 help you and give you a chance to give speeches 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.240 in front of other people who are very supportive and 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:11.719 aren't going to judge you. And then you just keep 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.480 going and pushing yourself and pushing yourself, and by doing 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:19.480 that over and over again in increasingly um anxiety inducing settings, 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:24.080 you retrain your brain so that it doesn't associate terror, 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.360 it associates good things instead, like that that being pumped 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:31.280 up on adrenaline afterwards because you're you're so thrilled with yourself. Yeah, 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.920 I've I've been to many weddings where I feel bad 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:38.199 for the toastmaster that UH was kind of that position 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.080 was shoved onto them, and they it ruins the wedding 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:43.839 up until that point for them a lot of times, 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.080 because you can just tell they're just like, I don't 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:47.600 want to do this, man, I've just been going over, 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.520 been writing, and I just always feel so bad. I 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.360 thought you're gonna say it ruins the wedding, Well, it 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:57.000 ruins their experience right until it's over, and then they 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:00.680 just get plastered. Right. But on one of the things 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.439 you can do to UM, no matter whether you're performing 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.440 for yourself in a room alone or in front of 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.680 like a room full of people, UM, one way to 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.400 really help yourself is to know the material to be 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.800 prepared and not just memorize it, because if you memorize that, 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.160 you can lose your place and then you're just toast. 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:22.720 To know the material so much that you can improve 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.000 and add lib whenever needed, because there's such thing as 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.880 hecklers out there and they will try to throw you off. 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.480 But if you know the stuff, you can find your 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.720 place again and be much more comfortable. That's the advice 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.600 I always give to people is if you're nervous, just 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.520 know the material inside now, and then you can start 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.520 to relax and make the jokes that people love. Good advice. 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:46.600 If your crutches the actual material, then you're in good shape. Right. 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.040 So that's it for public speaking. Get out there and 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:54.880 speak publicly and in the meantime, this is short stuff out. 0:11:57.840 --> 0:11:59.960 Stuff you should know is production of I Heart Radio. 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.839 How stuff works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.800 visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:13.400 listen to your favorite shows. H M.