1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, There's Chuck. 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: There's Josh, the other Josh who has now become our 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: go to guest producer, and this is short stuff. Enough 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, we fired Frank the chair and the 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: little water dipping bird that pressed record, which was Yeah, 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: the bird really started to phone things in, don't you think? 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: I think so, Chuck, Speaking of phoning things in, imagine 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: having to do public speaking. I can't imagine what that 9 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: must be like. Do you remember. I mean, we've done 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: plenty of talks, we've done live shows. That's just kind 11 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: of part of what we do. Do you remember them 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: crippling stage fright I used to get. Yeah, I mean 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: we both had varying levels early on. It's not like 14 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: I was always a cool cucumber. You seemed like it. 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: Well that you didn't go into the bathroom with me 16 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: moments before showtime. I always wanted to, But yeah, you were. 17 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: You were that through me. Um. You always were a 18 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: bit more nervous. But I think you're just wound a 19 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: little tighter in general. But we we both overcame that 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: for the most part, don't you think. Yeah? Yeah, And 21 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: you know how we overcame it. I can tell you how, 22 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: and I know that you know how, but let's tell 23 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: everybody else through through basically exposure therapy, just doing it. 24 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: And it turns out what we're talking about is is 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: just public speaking in general. But um, the fear of 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: public speaking almost goes hand in hand with public speaking. 27 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:39,639 Speaker 1: I saw a stat that said that people of people 28 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: in the world have a fear of public speaking. I'm 29 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: surprised it's not more than that. To be honest, I 30 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: am too. And then there's that old trope, the idea 31 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: that there's some poll taken somewhere of what Americans fear 32 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: the most, and number one was public speaking and number 33 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: two was death. And Jerry Seinfeld turned it into that 34 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: men that most people would rather be in the casket 35 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: than giving the eulogy because of that fear of public speaking. 36 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: And there's a word for it too, it's called glossophobia, 37 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: which is great work. Yeah, I mean, it's a it's 38 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: a real thing, and we should point out that it 39 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: is a legit um anxiety disorder, a social anxiety disorder 40 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: for for most people. Um, Like I had a bit 41 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: of the jitters. I don't think I was had a 42 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: technical I was a technical glossophob um. But for a 43 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: lot of people, it's not just like I'm nervous, my 44 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: palms are sweaty. For some people, it's debilitating to the 45 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: point where they will structure their life so that they 46 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: never have to do that, never have a job where 47 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: they have to speak in front of like a conference room, 48 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: you know, right, or small handful of people, basically anybody. 49 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: They always want to be the ones in the audience. 50 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: They don't want to be the ones giving the talk 51 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: so much so, like you said, they'll they'll structure their 52 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: their life around avoiding it. Avoidance is like the number 53 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: one go to thing that people do when they suffer 54 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: from glossophobia. They just do whatever they can to not 55 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: give that talk. That's right, And like you said that, 56 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 1: it's a it's a subset of a social anxiety disorder, 57 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: which is really at base a social anxiety disorder is 58 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: a UM. It's a performance fear. It's the fear of 59 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: being judged and or failing. Um, that's what it is 60 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: among your peers. Yeah, it's the it's the fear of 61 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: the result, not like I mean, it manifests its ways 62 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: as you like walk up on that stage but what 63 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: you're really afraid of is saying the wrong thing, uh, 64 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: feeling like you've said something dumb, being judged as not 65 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: knowing what you're talking about. And that's why it helped us, 66 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: because we have a very forgiving, loving, loyal audience whenever 67 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: we go out to do live shows. It makes it 68 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: a lot easier than And we've done talks where we 69 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: weren't full in a room full of stuff you should know, fans, 70 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: and those are always more nerve racking for me. Well, 71 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: they also always went really poorly too. You're kind of right. 72 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: But one of the problems though with this is is 73 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: like that that you're not only your fear, you know, 74 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 1: not knowing what you're talking about or being judged and failing, 75 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: but also catastrophically screwing up, like forgetting your place, maybe 76 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: bursting into tears and running off of stage, and so 77 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: you fear these things. But the insidious thing about you know, 78 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: glossophobia are really any social anxiety disorder, is that you 79 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: come to fear the fear. Right. It's not like you 80 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: experience just the fear while you're up on stage. You 81 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: you fear this, this failure, this whatever it is you're 82 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: you're having to do for a very long stretch ahead 83 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: of time. And that is the most crippling part of 84 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: any social anxiety disorder, the fear of the fear of 85 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: so aciated with it, and that's what leads to the avoidance. Right, 86 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: So let's take a quick break and we're gonna come 87 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: back and talk about how this manifests itself in what 88 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: you can do about it right after this. If you 89 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: want to know, then you're in luck. Just listen to Chuck. 90 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: All right, So you gotta give a talk at your 91 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: school or whatever, which I did, by the way, my 92 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: very first like a big in front of people speaking 93 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: and not just like classroom size, was when I ran 94 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: for a vice president of student council. I had to 95 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: speak in front of the entire school in the gym 96 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: and it was pretty nerve. Ranking new locker combos for everyone? 97 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: Was that your platform? No? What was it? Brady or no? 98 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: A Happy Days? Was angled parking? That was the big 99 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: thing that Richie was running on, Was it? Really? Yeah? Man, 100 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: that is a it's an arcane trivia question right there. 101 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: I have no idea how that's stuck with me. But um, 102 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: what you will feel in your body, which is what 103 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: I felt back then and what I don't so much 104 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: feel now is on edge. Um, if it's really bad, 105 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: sense of panic and doom, your heart's gonna be beating faster. 106 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: These are like literal physical changes. You will be sweating, 107 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: especially if you're me. You might be trembling, you might 108 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: feel weak and dizzy. Uh. You might have trouble sleeping 109 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: in the days proceeding for weeks or weeks. Um, I 110 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: have trouble sleeping after shows because of just the adrenaline, 111 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: just because you're so amped. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, 112 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: there's definitely a come down stage. But all this is 113 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: actually science and physiological things that are going on in 114 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: your body, isn't that right? Yeah, And the reason why 115 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: you're having this physiological reaction is because the whole thing 116 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: any social anxiety disorder, but also a glossophobias, since it's 117 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: a subset of that is centered around the amygdala, which 118 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: regulates our emotions. And for some reason, they think it 119 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: starts in childhood, probably where there's just some sort of 120 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: you know, innate shyness that doesn't um dealt with and 121 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: just grows and grows and grows as an adult, but 122 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: you start to associate performance with fear and the amygdala. 123 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: Then when it senses that there's some sort of performance 124 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: impending starts to freak you out. It associates performance with 125 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: that fear and not only things that have gone wrong 126 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: in the past, but all the things that could go 127 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: wrong in the future, and releases the same stress hormones 128 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: that it releases. If a bear suddenly shows itself to 129 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: you and takes a swipe at you with with its clause, 130 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: which means that the fight or flight uh response is 131 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: kicked in, So you're having a physiological fight or flight response, 132 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: which is why you feel like you want to run 133 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: from wherever. The place you have to give the talk 134 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: is just run forever, quite job, start a new life, 135 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: maybe grow a mustache as a disguise. Yeah. And as 136 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: a kid, it's like it can very easily be avoided 137 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: instead of dealt with. And then that fear just never 138 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: has overcome and you become an adult who has that 139 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: same fear uh and you walk a really fine line 140 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: as a parent. I'm already seeing this with like, now 141 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: you don't have to do that. If you don't, you know, 142 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: if it freaks you out too much, or you know, 143 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: you don't want to be the fifties parent either. That's like, no, 144 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: get on that high dive and jump right, you know, 145 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: like they back then they thought they were helping. Like 146 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: my dad, I was scared of roller coasters and he 147 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: told me, I'm not bringing you back anymore than if 148 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: you don't get on this roller coaster right now. And 149 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: I did and I loved it. However, I mean, people 150 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: don't parent that way anymore. So you really got to 151 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: walk that fine line of encouragement and maybe like it 152 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: might be good if you could overcome this fear without 153 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: traumatizing them at the same time, Right, you have to 154 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: figure out a way to trick them into doing it 155 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: kind of you. There's a lot of trickery involved, I 156 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: can imagine there has to be. That's the there's your 157 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: fine line, there's the balance struck right there. But avoidance 158 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: is not going to solve your problem. And experts say, 159 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: if you want to, if you have to overcome this 160 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: fear or want to, uh, you gotta do what we 161 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: did and you've got to just kind of start doing 162 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: it on a smaller scale ideally, right. So, um, if 163 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: you really really have it bad, and this is say 164 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: like affecting you personally or professionally or whatever. Um, it 165 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: would help probably to go seek a cognitive behavioral therapist 166 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: who's going to help you retrain your brain to see 167 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: things differently so that your brain doesn't associate public speaking 168 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: with abject fear and terror. And the way that you 169 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: do this, like you said, just kind of starting out small, 170 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: maybe giving a speech alone in a room, and then 171 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: moving up to one in front of a friend, then 172 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: a handful of friends, your dog, maybe even first I'll 173 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: bet your dog, wouldn't you. Most dogs aren't very judging usually, 174 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: and then maybe moving up to some thing like toast masters, 175 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: like a supportive group that is that that can really 176 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: help you and give you a chance to give speeches 177 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: in front of other people who are very supportive and 178 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:11,719 Speaker 1: aren't going to judge you. And then you just keep 179 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: going and pushing yourself and pushing yourself, and by doing 180 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: that over and over again in increasingly um anxiety inducing settings, 181 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: you retrain your brain so that it doesn't associate terror, 182 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: it associates good things instead, like that that being pumped 183 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: up on adrenaline afterwards because you're you're so thrilled with yourself. Yeah, 184 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: I've I've been to many weddings where I feel bad 185 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: for the toastmaster that UH was kind of that position 186 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: was shoved onto them, and they it ruins the wedding 187 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: up until that point for them a lot of times, 188 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: because you can just tell they're just like, I don't 189 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: want to do this, man, I've just been going over, 190 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: been writing, and I just always feel so bad. I 191 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: thought you're gonna say it ruins the wedding, Well, it 192 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: ruins their experience right until it's over, and then they 193 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: just get plastered. Right. But on one of the things 194 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: you can do to UM, no matter whether you're performing 195 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: for yourself in a room alone or in front of 196 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: like a room full of people, UM, one way to 197 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: really help yourself is to know the material to be 198 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: prepared and not just memorize it, because if you memorize that, 199 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: you can lose your place and then you're just toast. 200 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: To know the material so much that you can improve 201 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: and add lib whenever needed, because there's such thing as 202 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: hecklers out there and they will try to throw you off. 203 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: But if you know the stuff, you can find your 204 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: place again and be much more comfortable. That's the advice 205 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: I always give to people is if you're nervous, just 206 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: know the material inside now, and then you can start 207 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: to relax and make the jokes that people love. Good advice. 208 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: If your crutches the actual material, then you're in good shape. Right. 209 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: So that's it for public speaking. Get out there and 210 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: speak publicly and in the meantime, this is short stuff out. 211 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: Stuff you should know is production of I Heart Radio. 212 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 1: How stuff works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 213 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 214 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. H M.