1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan in nineteen ninety four, had 2 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: the good fortune of being tasked with being part group. 3 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: It was a group that was actually established by the 4 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: National Institute of Justice through the Federal Justice Department, and 5 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: what we were tasked with was designing the national standards 6 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: for medical legal death investigators nationwide. And I got to 7 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: tell you, out of everything I did in my career, 8 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: pretty dull gone proud of that. You guys can go 9 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: look at them. They're available there. Just go to nij 10 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: dot gov and you can search it out. It's there. 11 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: But you know, part of that journey to developing those standards, 12 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: which was roughly about a I don't know, probably about 13 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 1: a three year process, was the travel that I had 14 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: to do. And out of all the cities that I 15 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: traveled to while I was developing these, my favorite soon 16 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: became Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Now Milwaukee, for those of you that 17 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: don't know, is a neat place by virtue of the 18 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: fact of there's so many cultures there, and particularly German 19 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: and Polish culture, and growing up in the South, I 20 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: was never really exposed to their food that much, and 21 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: boy was food great. I really enjoyed it. And I 22 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: enjoyed the people too, and the beauty. We were like 23 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: actually on the shore of Lake Michigan. I'd always been 24 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: to the ocean, I had never even seen the That 25 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: was my first introduction of the Great Lakes, and it's 26 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: just so gorgeous. The water was so beautiful. But you know, 27 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: around that same time, there was a real evil that 28 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: had occurred in Milwaukee in the form of a person 29 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: named Jeffrey Dahmer, and the guy that headed up the committee, 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: who was the chief medical Examiner for Milwaukee, had handled 31 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: those cases. Today, on body bags, I want to talk 32 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: about something that has just occurred in the last few 33 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: days in the city that I really love, Milwaukee, and 34 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: it is a horrific case, a horrific case involving a 35 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: young woman who was right on the cusp of entering 36 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: in to full adulthood, making her way in this world, 37 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: and unfortunately she died at the hands of an apparent 38 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: monster who wasn't just satisfied with killing her, he also 39 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: felt the need to dismember her. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan 40 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: and that this is body bats. Dave you ever been 41 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: to Milwaukee. I have not, you have not. 42 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: No, it's a. 43 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: Cool trip I felt. I've been to Chicago. Chicago felt 44 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: a bit overwhelming to me. It's so spread out, it's 45 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: really big. I don't think people really realize how close 46 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: Milwaukee and Chicago are. It's literally traveled northward on the 47 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: interstate and you will eventually hit Milwaukee. And Wisconsin itself 48 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: is a beautiful state, green, lush, rolling hills. I found 49 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: the people to be very friendly, and if you enjoy beer, 50 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: it's a great place. And if you enjoy German food, 51 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: oh my lord, it is incredible, very rich. And since 52 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: this time, since back in nineteen ninety four, I've been 53 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: back up there many times and have just fallen in 54 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: love with a place. Love going up there and checking 55 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: it out. 56 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: I have to wonder, how can a place this so 57 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: beautiful that you have such fond memories of, that has 58 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: so much How can it be home to two of 59 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 2: the sickest murderers, Jeffrey Dahmer and now Maxwell allegedly Maxwell Anderson. 60 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: Yeah? Is that possible? 61 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: Yeah? 62 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think about that as well. We know that 63 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: there's evil out there. 64 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: Until this evil took place, it was exactly as you're 65 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: explaining it was. For Shawday Robinson, she was excited about 66 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 2: a first date with the guy. Shaw Day is a wonderful, 67 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 2: smart a person. Everybody liked, the person who never called 68 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: out at work. Everybody liked work. Everybody felt like the 69 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: world was a better place with her in it. And 70 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: she was excited. She was talking to people about this 71 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: date she was going on when they were texting back 72 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: and forth. Been her and Maxwell Anderson. You know about 73 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 2: where to eat? She said, I'm feeling seafood, feeling seafood. 74 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 2: So he takes her to a place he used to work. 75 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 2: That's where they went to eat seafood. And she goes 76 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: on this date just like anyone else goes on a date. 77 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 2: They had a fun time. They eat dinner. They then 78 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: go and have a couple of drinks, just being together, 79 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: getting to know one another on a first date. It 80 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: seemed like they're having a great time. 81 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: I think. I think. Actually the bartender saw these two 82 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,679 Speaker 1: at the bar, didn't they Yeah, And they weren't fighting 83 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: or anything. 84 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 2: No, No, they were again, it was a great first date. 85 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: It was. 86 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: It was a great first date on every angle except 87 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: for how it ended. And how it ended was they 88 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 2: go back to his apartment. Now I point this out, 89 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: it was a great first date. They hadn't they didn't meet. 90 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: It wasn't a blind date. I mean, it wasn't like 91 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: they had no communication beforehand. They had you know, they 92 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 2: had built up a time together communicating with one another 93 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: to leading up to this first date. And then the 94 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 2: first date goes well and they end up going back 95 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: to Maxwell Anderson's place. That's how so you know, the 96 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: date wasn't crazy. They weren't violently fighting with or arguing 97 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 2: or anything else. 98 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: They well, they don't have any history. They don't have 99 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: any history. I mean, you have to have history most 100 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: of the time in a relationship to fight about something. 101 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: I mean, where are you going to find common ground 102 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: to fight on? You know? I mean this is a 103 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: first state. You wouldn't expect that. That's I think that 104 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: that's what makes this really a bit darker. 105 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 2: Which is why it fits into what you were saying 106 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 2: about Milwaukee, about the area about it has all these 107 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 2: great things that you can put together with it, yet 108 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: it can it can also have this type of behavior 109 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 2: that goes well beyond anything you and I would ever imagine. 110 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 2: But now, Joe, ever since we went to crime Con 111 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,559 Speaker 2: last fall and did the show about people being dismembered, right, 112 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 2: and you talked about this is really becoming common. And 113 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: here we are again with another episode where a person 114 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: is accused of luring somebody and that O don't the house. 115 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: You can prove because of what happened. It's like he 116 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 2: had to have been putting a different face forward to 117 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: her to lure her through the whole night, very engaging, 118 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 2: very nice, And they go back to his apartment where 119 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 2: he then kills her and cuts her up allegedly allegedly. Yeah, 120 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 2: and then wait a minute, but that's not where the 121 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 2: shock ends, Joe. No, he doesn't just leave her there. 122 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 2: He doesn't just go and dig a hole in the 123 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: backyard and put No. He then allegedly starts spreading her 124 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: body parts around to just be found by people for 125 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: a shock value. Is the guy writing a script for 126 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: a horror movie? What makes somebody Joseph Scott Morgan get 127 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: to the point where it's no longer just enough to 128 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: cut a body up of somebody you've just had a 129 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 2: great date with, to cut them up and then make 130 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: sure that regular people walk in the street, earl walking 131 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: certain areas could find these body parts. And hey, let 132 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 2: me draw a little of attention to myself and set 133 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 2: the car on fire so that that can draw attention 134 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: back to her. 135 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: That's a fascinating point. It makes me. You know, first off, 136 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: I've covered dismemberment cases and many times dismembered parts will 137 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: be packaged somehow and then they'll be deposited into some 138 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: kind of wastebind, and you know where you can have 139 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: a passerby that are a homeless person that's digging in 140 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: the wastebind they find this part. You know, it's a 141 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: big shock. And many times you think, well, the perpetrators 142 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: trying obviously trying to obscure what they've done, and they 143 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: want to put as much distance between themselves and those 144 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: dismembered remains. But what you're talking about, it actually makes 145 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: me reflect back to a series of serial killings back 146 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: in New Orleans many years ago that I worked. I 147 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: think I caught too. This guy killed a whole series 148 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: of people, but I caught too, and Dave, this was 149 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: really interesting, interesting finding when he would kill he would 150 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: kill prostitutes. And when he would kill them, first off, 151 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: he would redress them and only in their underwear, and 152 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: the underwear was always turned inside out and forgive me. 153 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: I can't remember the diagram, the name of the diagram, 154 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: but do you know the drawing that Leonardo da Vinci 155 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: did that shows anatomical man with the arms spread upward 156 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: like this and the body makes kind of an X. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, 157 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: each one of these bodies Dave was in that position, 158 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: legs spread, arms extended diagonally upward, and he would surround 159 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: the body with tires. And here's the one thing about 160 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: that case. And I came to the same conclusion that 161 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: you just came to about these deposition of remains. He 162 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: did not want individuals to smell the bodies, because you 163 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: can't smell anything if you've got a huge collection of tires. 164 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: All these bodies were found in like industrial areas where 165 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: there'd be like a big deposition of old tires, so 166 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 1: someone would have to visually find these bodies. And to 167 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: a person that discovered these bodies, they were shocked because 168 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: the body is decomposing and you can't smell it past 169 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: the tire. I actually remember conducting an experiment. We were 170 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: along in industrial canal in New Orleans and there was 171 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: a rotten dead catfish. This is on the second case, 172 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: and I picked up the catfish, and I put it 173 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: into the center of a tire just to test this hypothesis. 174 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: And the more tires are stacked that I stacked with 175 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: the catfish down at the bottom. You couldn't smell the catfish, 176 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: and rotten catfish stinks. And so I think that a 177 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: lot of this goes the deposition of remains here. There's 178 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: no rhyme to it necessarily. I'm really interesting if they're 179 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: going to do like a geographic profile in this case. 180 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: I think that this is ripe for this that try 181 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: to understand where these remains are deposited and what knowledge 182 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: would the perpetrator have about the location? Are you selecting 183 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: these because people walk their dogs, take their kids to 184 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: play in the park. You know there's a nice bench 185 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: where you're going to sit down. Is that the case? 186 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: Because if it is, this is how bleak this becomes 187 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: really really quick. Dave, the idea here is that not 188 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: only do you want to murder Shahda, but you want 189 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: to take her body and use it to terrify an 190 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: entire city. With my brother, Dave, educate me, man, what's 191 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: the Leonardo da Vinci diagram? Called again that I could 192 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: not remember. 193 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 2: The trouvian man and b I t are you v 194 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 2: I A n. 195 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: Listen everybody, Well, you can't say everybody. The lion's share 196 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: of the population has seen this. I knew what you 197 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: were talking about. I had to do. 198 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 2: I had to hit it. And all I could think 199 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 2: of when I was looking at it is Joe. I'm 200 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 2: glad you walked away from doing what you were doing, 201 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 2: and I'm glad you're teaching now because people like me 202 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: that are have reported and investigated things have no idea 203 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 2: about the things that you talk about on a daily 204 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 2: basis and explain. And I know that I appreciate being 205 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 2: a part of this because it gives me a different 206 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 2: look at things. And I'm not saying it's bad. It's 207 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: just I had no idea how people really I'm not 208 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: as shocked at things anymore. I'm more shocked. Does that 209 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: make sense? 210 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it does. And I think a lot of 211 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: it is in with Chade's case. You think that it's 212 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: kind of this progression into hell if you will, and 213 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 1: you and it's in degrees, okay, and you begin to 214 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: think about you sit around, it's like you think about 215 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: how much more evil can this get? And that's a 216 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: terrible thing to throw out there because the world will say, Okay, 217 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: I'll show you how much more evil this can every time, 218 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: every single time. And I really think from an academic standpoint, 219 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: I really need to start doing a study about these 220 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: dismemberment cases. We've talked about it several times. There seems 221 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: to be an uptick and this is happening, and I 222 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: think that it goes to a level of callousness that 223 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: perhaps that we haven't experienced in modern times certainly, and 224 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: ancient times perhaps, But it is the most evil thing 225 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: that you can do. And you know, just the other day, 226 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: I had the privilege of appearing on Nancy's program on 227 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: Merritt Street Media with her, and you know, Dave, my 228 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: heart was breaking because Chade's mom was on there with us. 229 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: And I can't and I don't know that any of 230 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: us can actually begin to fathom the depths of grief 231 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: and pain. It's hard enough, and this is real. I 232 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: know this is wrote to say that it's hard enough 233 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: to lose a child, But when you lose a child 234 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: in this manner and you don't have your child whole, 235 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: think about that just for a second, and you're getting 236 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 1: notified by the police. Her body is being discovered piecemeal, 237 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: and every single time it's almost like Shaddy's mother is 238 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: having to relive this notification over and over and over 239 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: and over again. It is absolutely heartbreaking. Please please take 240 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: me back to that period where they made the first 241 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: discovery because one of the things I was hearing was 242 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: they had discovered a foot with pink tonail polish on it. 243 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 2: You know, when you were talking about them continuing to 244 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 2: find and her her mother doing the show with Nancy. 245 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: You know, she has refused all other invitations for interviews. 246 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: She only did the show with Nancy because she thought 247 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: one she loves Nancy, She'll do one national show and 248 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 2: if y'all want to know what I'm thinking, use that 249 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 2: interview with her. And that's what they're doing in coverage. 250 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 2: But the fact that it's gone on for almost three 251 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 2: weeks now is we're taping this and they're still finding 252 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 2: body parts in the last eighteen hours. The shot goes 253 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 2: beyond anything I can imagine in looking at when this 254 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 2: took place. Shaw Day would have graduated from college in 255 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: May with her associates degree, and she was a month 256 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 2: away from being twenty nineteen years old. Getting it. I 257 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: mean not not even a totally legal adult yet right now, 258 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 2: and goes out on this date with Maxwell Anderson. Now, 259 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 2: we got two ways of going through this. Let's start 260 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: with her car found burning. Okay, let me start right there, 261 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: because that's when the attention started to get drawn into 262 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: Somebody's gone Shawdey Robinson's car is found burning seven thirty 263 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 2: in the morning. It's a blue Honda Civic. A witness 264 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: sees a man with a tan backpack get out of 265 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 2: the car. Man throws a lit lighter inside the driver's side. 266 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: Car ignites. Man walks away towards a bus stop. The 267 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 2: witness lags down passing cars. Hey call nine one one. Meanwhile, 268 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 2: maxwellam is seen carrying this tan backpack on a bus camera, 269 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: because there are cameras everywhere. The next day, April second, 270 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 2: her right leg was found at Warnamont Park. The leg 271 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 2: was found by a civilian on the beach north of 272 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: the pumphouse. There is a cliff leading down to the 273 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 2: beach and the leg appeared to have been sawed off 274 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 2: at the hip. Now, according to what we were told 275 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: from the very beginning, the leg appeared to be long 276 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 2: to a black female about five feet tall. Still had 277 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 2: pink nail polish on the toes. Joe. The femur was 278 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 2: snapped off. Yeah, the bone was sawed halfway through and 279 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: all I could think of And I hate to even 280 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 2: say this, but for anybody who has ever had to 281 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 2: cut a tree, yep, you're cutting a tree limb, you 282 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 2: get halfway through it, and you're tired and you just 283 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 2: snap yep. Is that what they're saying happened with her femur? 284 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that would approximate it. And it's look, it's 285 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: the same principle here and is you know, it sets 286 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: your teeth on edge, you know when you hear this. 287 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: Here's the thing when an individual would attempt. First off, 288 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 1: most people, and we've talked about this, Lord help us, 289 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: when most people, I think, endeavor to do a dismemberment, 290 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: they don't think about having to get through the soft tissue, 291 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: and it gets very frustrating, particularly if you're using and 292 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: at this point we don't know what type of tool 293 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: was used. I've had cases involving I think of this 294 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: young lady out in Seattle I covered a couple of 295 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: years ago. He had used a bosaw like you trim 296 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: your bushes with, and done that in the bathtub, and 297 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: it's very rough going. If you know, in the morgue 298 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: we have scalpels, you know, in these sorts of instruments, 299 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: very sharp scissors, and we can go through soft tissue 300 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: to get to the bone. But if the only instrument 301 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: that you have is in fact a saw, and it 302 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: can even be a power saw that is not created 303 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: in order to go through soft tissue. And so when 304 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: you get down to the actual shaft of a long bone. 305 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: You had mentioned the femur, which you have many times, 306 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: is that it's just like sawing wood. Forensic anthropologists study 307 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: these things where and there are some forensic anthropologists, believe 308 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 1: it or not, that specialize indismemberment. That's all they study. 309 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,959 Speaker 1: They study tool marks on bones. It's a fascinating field. 310 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: It's gruesome, but it's a fascinating feel from that perspective. 311 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: They'll have these stop starts, and you can identify with 312 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: this with sawing a piece of wood. Have you ever 313 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: saw it and then gotten out of the groove. Well, 314 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: every time you do that, you put an additional mark 315 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: on the piece of wood. Same thing applies to bone. 316 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: It's hard work. It makes no mistake about it. If 317 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: you're so frustrated and you've gotten down and this is 318 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,479 Speaker 1: just one limb we're talking about, Dave, one limb. It 319 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: has to be then if you get frustrated, you got 320 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: to snap it off and then detach the rest of 321 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: the soft tissue. You're frustrated, You've burned up all over 322 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: your energy. Now what are you going to do? Well? 323 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: Maybe the perpetrators thinking about you know, I'm going to 324 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 1: take these items out, these elements of the body and 325 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: deposit them in various places as I build back up 326 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: my energy. Then you go back and you do it again. 327 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: You do it again, you do it again, and then 328 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: every time you're moving out of the house or whatever, 329 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: you're redepositing. Maybe at some point in time he saw 330 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: it off, two appendages, and in one run he deposited 331 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: them in various locations. Who knows, we're going to find out, 332 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: but there will be a tremendous amount of evidence. I 333 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: think in the basement of this home. What really kind 334 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 1: of peaks my curiosity about this is not so much 335 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: to dismemberment, as ghastly as that is. Are they going 336 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: to be capable of determining her cause of death? We 337 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: know the Manner's homicide. But how degraded were the remains 338 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: of how traumatized posts more? I'm trump, I'm talking about 339 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: where the remains is there's a bullet hole, if there's 340 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 1: an injury to the neck, this sort of thing. Is 341 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: it going to be compromised so that you're not going 342 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,479 Speaker 1: to be able to make out truly what happened? I 343 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: think that that that's going to be difficult. And you know, 344 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: the folks at the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner's office, they 345 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: could do this one of two ways. They can say, Okay, 346 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: we're going to take this recently arrived remain and set 347 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: it aside and before we do the totality of the examination. 348 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: Because they know that they've got this young woman missing, 349 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: they're finding parts, so they wait until everything comes in. 350 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: Or a question to ask is are they examining each 351 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: remain as it comes in. My suspicion is they're waiting 352 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: until they get the body in totality, you know, until 353 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: they've recovered as much as they possibly can. 354 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 2: I think day with the leg being found, we didn't 355 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: think of the first leg being found being the first 356 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 2: body part deposited. And that's not always the case. It 357 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 2: just happened to be the first one that was fast 358 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 2: one found. Yeah, but there are things that they were 359 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 2: talking about where it was found. Are we talking about 360 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 2: the alleged perpetrator throwing it in the water and it 361 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 2: floating up on the shore. Can you imagine what is 362 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 2: he doing? Is he trying to hide it? What's he 363 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 2: trying to do? Is he trying to set it so 364 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 2: people will find it? Trying to throw it up? 365 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: I mean yeah to me, I mean, look allegedly again allegedly, 366 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: here we go. One of the things that's been put forward, 367 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: and I find this quite fascinating, that is that there 368 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: was a hole dug in his backyard of that home. 369 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: And this home, by the way, when you see the 370 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 1: images of it, is neat as a pin. The grass 371 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: is very well groomed, the house is very well kept, 372 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: it would appear. And you look at this and you think, okay, 373 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: you've dug a hole in the backyard, and you're thinking, 374 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: does this go to premeditation? You know, what's the purpose 375 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: of having this hole? Are you gonna you know, it's springtime, 376 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: or you think about putting in a flower bed or 377 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 1: putting in tomatoes? Because I don't know, maybe that's what 378 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: a defense attorney would say. And you know you're it's 379 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: a free country. You're welcome digs me holes in your yard. 380 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: I guess as you want to. But from an investigative standpoint, 381 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: if I'm seeing this, I'm thinking, well, maybe thought it 382 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: wasn't such a good idea to have this deceased young 383 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: lady on his premises in the wake of the fact 384 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: that he has been spotted in a bar and a 385 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: restaurant with her. He's the last person that was seen 386 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: with her alive. They're going to come asking questions, and 387 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: he doesn't want to have to explain why she is 388 00:22:45,920 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: buried in his backyard. Years ago, I actually had a case, 389 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: actually it was a colleague of mine that had a 390 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: case where a plastic grocery store bag was found and 391 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: contained within the bag was a head. And I remember 392 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 1: the feeling that I had in the wake of that discovery, 393 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: and all of us did. I think many of us 394 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: at the Emmy's office had that feeling, the same idea, Well, 395 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: when's the rest of the body going to show up? 396 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: And in that case, all we were left with was ahead. 397 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: Nothing else ever showed up. And that does happen. It 398 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: does happen. So you take that idea, and I'm thinking 399 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,679 Speaker 1: about the investigative staff at the Emmy's office, and of 400 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: course the police that are working this case. And I'm thinking, Dave, 401 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: well are they Are they sitting on pins and needles? 402 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 1: Can you imagine being a homicide detective assigned to this? 403 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: And You're thinking, Okay, let's take an inventory of what 404 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: we have at this point? Where else can we look? 405 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: Is the body ever going to be reconstituted to some level? 406 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: Because I got to tell you, just listening to Shade's 407 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: mother the other day, she ain't gonna have burial until 408 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: she has her baby back. And that's just that's the 409 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: reality of it. What do we have up to this point? 410 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: And when were these items discovered? 411 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: Two things that got me, Joe. One was the fire man. 412 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 2: We'll come to that. But my first thought when I 413 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 2: heard the car was on fire, I thought he did 414 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 2: it to get rid of evidence. The alleged perpetrator did 415 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 2: it to get rid of evidence. But if you've listened 416 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 2: to Joseph Scott Morgan long and if you know that 417 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 2: the perpetrator, by lighting it on fire, didn't destroy evidence. 418 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: He actually probably locked some evidence in we'll get into that. 419 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 2: April first, Shade Robinson has disappeared. Had a date that 420 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 2: evening April second, seven thirty am. Her car is on fire. 421 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: It's found burning in an alley five point thirty That afternoon, 422 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 2: her car is at seven thirty am on fire. She's 423 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: missing five point thirty to the afternoon. The human leg 424 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 2: with the pink toenails is found in Warnamont Park. Two 425 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 2: days later, Maxwell Anderson is brought in for questioning because 426 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: they know that he was last on with her. The 427 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 2: next day, April fifth, three days after the first body 428 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 2: part was found, another body part found, this time near 429 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 2: thirtieth in Lisbon. The next day, human remains located near 430 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 2: thirty first Angalina. April seventh, more human remains located near 431 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 2: thirty first in Walnut. The next day, April eighth. Officers 432 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 2: are still combing the park for evidence and collected more items. 433 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 2: But when police find it, we don't know exactly what 434 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 2: they found. The only time we know what is actually 435 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,360 Speaker 2: found is when a civilian finds it and they tell 436 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 2: us before the police do. 437 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: I'm sitting back and I'm thinking, my lord, I mean, 438 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: what else what else could their Torso? 439 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, arm how about that that was found Joe just 440 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: the other day. Yeah, we are three weeks now away 441 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 2: from this almost and her or so an arm of 442 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 2: shade Robinson washed up on Milwaukee Beach. 443 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: So that begs the question, doesn't it is he? Why 444 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: would an individual who is randomly doing these these deposits, 445 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: why would he choose some of them to be Because 446 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: you know, if we go back to the leg that's 447 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: on the beach, was this something that he had walked 448 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: out into the water or did he And if you've 449 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: never seen the Great League Lakes, they they do have. 450 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: Look it's not like going to Hawaii, but there is 451 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: kind of a surf that's there. You know, the current 452 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: will push things into the beach. You can see breakers, 453 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: you know, on the shore, particularly if the weather stormy, 454 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: it looks like you're at the ocean. Did he not 455 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: walk the remains out there? Or did he take the 456 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: remains and put them into a tributary and have them 457 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: washed down the tributary and they wind up flowing back 458 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: into the shore. I think that that's certainly something you know, 459 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: to be considered. Here are these placements random? One of 460 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: the things that keeps going through my head. Dave about 461 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: this case, is that is this the first time this 462 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 1: individual has done this? Because you're talking about brother, You're 463 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: talking about going from zero to a thousand, All right, 464 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: this is not this is not like you know, you 465 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: kind of slipped into these waters and you're doing things 466 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: that you shouldn't be doing. Is you begin to think 467 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: has he attacked other people? Has he been this? Is 468 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: there this level of violence? Has he used sharp instruments 469 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: on anybody even in a fight? Has he threatened to 470 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: carve somebody up? Here's another big one. Are there any 471 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: other women in Milwaukee that fit the description of shah Day? 472 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: They are missing? And I think that that that's certainly 473 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: something to consider where this would have to have been done. 474 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: You know, when you talk about dismemberment, you have to 475 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: have privacy. There's no way you're going to roll out 476 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: into the backyard and start doing this. You have to 477 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: have privacy. And from what I'm what I am hearing, 478 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: there's been a considerable amount of blood deposition in his 479 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: basement apartment essentially, or basement living. 480 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 2: Space actually in the hallway leading down on the stairway. 481 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so was he dragging body parts up there? 482 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: And you know, and what else is in there. Here's 483 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 1: the other thing. When they sweep this area, when law 484 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: enforcement and I can assume that they have done this, 485 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: when they bring in that team of forensic scientists, the 486 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: random sampling in that environment, you expect to find his DNA. 487 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: You're going to find probably I think his parents actually 488 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: own the home and they've relocated to Florida. They're going 489 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,959 Speaker 1: to find their DNA. Any of his buddies, you might 490 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: find theirs. But is there any unidentified DNA that's down there? 491 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: Is there any DNA that they could perhaps profile where 492 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: they could do phenotyping or get an idea as to 493 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: who this individual may have been, who it belongs to, 494 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: Because look, that question has to be asked, and I 495 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: think that the people in Milwaukee would want an answer 496 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: to that, because if they've got young women that are missing, 497 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: your boy right here, he moves up to the top 498 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: of the list for me. I want to look through 499 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: that home, any kind of vehicle he has, anything that 500 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: I want to search it. 501 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 2: Joe, Okay, Just to give you an idea. His dad's 502 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 2: very wealthy, a rich businessman. Maxwell Anderson was a high 503 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: school football star. After he didn't really amount to a 504 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 2: whole lot. He's worked for his daut a couple of 505 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 2: times didn't really work out. He's ended up as a 506 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 2: bartender pretty much working as a bartender and what have you. 507 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 2: In and around Milwaukee. He did run a foul of 508 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: the law with the family members. It apparently has some 509 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 2: He's acted out a couple of times where police had 510 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 2: to be called. I'll give it that, but nothing like 511 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 2: this right now. Don't know if we have any other 512 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 2: women who have come forward to talk to police. We 513 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 2: don't know that yet, mainly because they have Maxwell Anderson 514 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 2: in jail. They've charged him with shaw Dave Robinson's murder 515 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 2: and now they're putting the case together and they'll reach 516 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 2: out and if any women have come forward with other stories, 517 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 2: they're probably looking, you know, that's what yeah, buddy. 518 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: Let me tell you. They're going through his phone. They're 519 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: going through social media, any kind of dating apps that 520 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: he has there. They're going to be looking and say, look, 521 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: have you had contact with him? How did he behave 522 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: And they'll be bringing each and every one of these 523 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: points of contact along, not to mention all of his coworkers, 524 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: you know, the people that were in the bar. Did 525 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: he ever get spicy with any of the patrons that 526 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: came in there, you know, because fascinating. Yeah, go ahead, 527 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. 528 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,959 Speaker 2: The night they were out, the night that he was out, 529 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 2: it was like they went he went overboard to make 530 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 2: it not just a routine first date, but a good state. 531 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 2: Because halfway through the night they took a picture and 532 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 2: sent it out. They're sending out Instagram photos on their date. 533 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 2: I mean this guy was he planned this out because 534 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 2: look at what happens next. Follow this timeline, Joe, It's 535 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 2: very tight. Robinson and Anderson they go out to eat 536 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 2: at a bar heead, a restaurant he used to work at. 537 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 2: Then they sit at the bar and eat their food. 538 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 2: Everybody sees them being pleasant. They leave that restaurant. They 539 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 2: go to Duke's on Water. A pole camera actually picks 540 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 2: them up and Robinson's Honda Civic is parked at six 541 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: thirty three. Six thirty four, Robinson and Anderson get out 542 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 2: of the car. Nine oh four, Robinson and Anderson return 543 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 2: to the car. Robinson and Anderson are seen at Anderson's 544 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: home by a neighbor's camera at nine twenty four pm. 545 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 2: There are two figures seen entering Anderson's backyard. This is 546 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 2: one made you think about the hole that you said 547 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 2: he dug. At nine to twenty six, a living room 548 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 2: light is turned on inside the home. At eleven twenty 549 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 2: five eleven twenty five, a figure coming in and out 550 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 2: of the home into the backyard on and off until 551 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: twelve forty five am. At twelve forty seven am, Robinson's 552 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 2: car departs Anderson's house. That would mean Shaw Deve Robinson's 553 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 2: Honda Civic leaves Maxwell Anderson's home at twelve forty seven am. 554 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 2: We know they arrived and she was fine, alive, walk well, 555 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 2: assuming it's her. Two figures entering the backyard at nine 556 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 2: twenty four pm at eleven twenty five, one person is 557 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: seen going in and out of the house for the 558 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 2: next hour, and so you know Delly leaves, So she's 559 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 2: dead by eleven twenty five, two hours dead. 560 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: You got up. Yeah, And if he had the tools 561 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: at his disposal at that point, Tom and he had 562 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: a location where he could do this effectively and efficiently 563 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: as mechanical as that sounds. Did he use the car 564 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: in order to transport these remains and deposit them? Was 565 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: this a one time deposition thing where he's he's just 566 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: making the rounds to all these various locations, and that 567 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: does in fact bring us to the car because my 568 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: understanding is that they have also found gasoline containers that 569 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 1: he had at home. And here's the thing, if you 570 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: what people don't understand about using accelerants. I think that 571 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: it's fascinating. First off, that he strikes a lighter and 572 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: this is witnessed. He strikes a lighter outside of her 573 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: car and walks away, and then the next thing you know, 574 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: the car is engulfed. And you know, I'm always picking 575 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: on Hollywood, I know, on the show, but cars just 576 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: don't explode, all right, like that. Now you can have problem, 577 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: you can have that it does happen. But that's the 578 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: exception as opposed to the norm, all right, particularly from 579 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: within the cockpit of the car itself, within where the 580 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: driver's seat is sits and all of this sort of thing. 581 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: So there has to be an accelerant at work. What's 582 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: going to happen with all of the material in that 583 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: car that they can save? And this is kind of fascinating. 584 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: When the arson investigators work that car, they're going to 585 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: take samples from within that car and they're going to 586 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: put them into this they're going to put it into 587 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: a paint can, okay, and what will happen is those 588 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: items settle, Like if it's a cloth off of the seat, 589 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: for instance. 590 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 2: Well, the paint can have it. They're gonna put it 591 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 2: in a paint can. What's in the pain can, Well, 592 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 2: I say paint can. It's a can that looks like 593 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 2: a paint can. They're all silver and they're used for 594 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 2: collecting arson evidence. And so what happens is as gravity 595 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 2: takes hold and that that item settles to the bottom 596 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 2: of the can, any fumes that are contained on that 597 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 2: item rise within that can, and they're going to take 598 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 2: a big plunger and they're going to stick it in 599 00:34:58,920 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 2: there and. 600 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: They're going to draw off that gas. And then they're 601 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: going to walk over to a GC mass spec which 602 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: is a gas chromatograph that's attached to a mass spect machine, 603 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: and they're going to begin to take that sample and 604 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: run it through the machine and it gives you a 605 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: chemical signature. All right. I'm not going to go into 606 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: all the details, but with the GC you begin to 607 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: kind of formulate what is present, okay, within the sample. 608 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: You can kind of get a generalized idea when it's 609 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: drawn over to the mass spec We're talking about spectrometry, 610 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: and so every element that you have out there bends 611 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: light in a certain way, and so when you're talking 612 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: about something like gas or ethanol, it's going to refract 613 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: I guess is the best way to put it. It'll 614 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: bend the light and it gives you a specific readout 615 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: on this thing. All gas, like you draw up at 616 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: the gas station, is pretty much the same. What separates 617 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: it though, is the detergents that the individual companies put 618 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: in there. So if we look at something like VP 619 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: or Texaco or Gulf or Shell Chevron, it doesn't matter 620 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: they all, you know, we see these things, you know 621 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: with I don't know, and they're not sponsoring the show. 622 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: But whoever it is, it says, you know, our gas 623 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: has techron in it. Well, techron is some kind of 624 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: substance they have in there that is supposed to reduce gunk. Okay, Well, 625 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: it has a very specific signature that's different than the gasoline. 626 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: And so if this suspect has taken those gas cans 627 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: and gone to a local filling station, well that's an 628 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: old term people don't use any more, gone to a 629 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: local filling station and filled up these cans with it. 630 00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 1: There's going to be a very specific chemical signature goes 631 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,919 Speaker 1: back to that gas if that's what he used as 632 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: the accelerant. And so that's what I mean, Dave. You 633 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: know when I talk about things like, yeah, you're trying 634 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: to destroy evidence, and maybe there was blood evidence in 635 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: that car, because you know, maybe if he's using it 636 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 1: to convey this precious girl's remains all over the place, 637 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: maybe he got rid of the blood evidence, but he's 638 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: not going to get rid of that accelerant that was 639 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,359 Speaker 1: in there, and that's going to be his undoing. I 640 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 1: think whoever I thought it says I heard fire. 641 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 2: That was my first thought was jo Just Scott said 642 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 2: that he just burned himself by setting that fire. That's 643 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 2: what I heard you say, you know, because I've heard 644 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 2: you talk about what a fire does look. 645 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: You and I have both been around We grew up 646 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,240 Speaker 1: in sixties, right, We've both been around cigarettes our entire lives. 647 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: One way or another, we smoked or we didn't smoke. 648 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: Certainly our parents smoked. I can't remember. I can't count 649 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: how many times I've been burned by a cigarette, not 650 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 1: on purpose, but you know, parents used to smoke around 651 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: us all the time, and you know they'd burn you, 652 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 1: you know, when they're lighting up or whatever. But have 653 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: you ever seen somebody drop a cigarette onto like the 654 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: surface of a seat and a car well that it 655 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: smolders it catch it if it's fabric or I guess 656 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,479 Speaker 1: it could be pleather or whatever it is in your car, 657 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: it's going to burn a hole in it. But guess 658 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: what it's not going to do. It's not going to 659 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: explode and envelop the car. Okay, that just doesn't happen. 660 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: And you have to have an initiate with him striking 661 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: that lighter. What's really fascinating about this, Dave, is that 662 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: we've actually got a witness that saw this person strike 663 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,399 Speaker 1: this lighter. And I've got visions of zippos coming into 664 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: my mind right now, and you know, a lighter that 665 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: would stay burning and take it and toss it like 666 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,360 Speaker 1: some movie into the cockpit of the car and suddenly 667 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: the thing's enveloped in flame. Now you might think that 668 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: you're going to get rid of everything, but I can 669 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: tell you science in the end is gonna get you. 670 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: And you can say that not only about the fire. 671 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 1: You can say that about the blood that was left 672 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: behind at his scene. You can say that about the 673 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,879 Speaker 1: ct TV, but you know what else you can say 674 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: it about out there. Her remains are pointing a finger 675 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: back at this perpetrator, and her remains, in the end 676 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: will tell the tale of Shade's death. I'm Joseph Scott 677 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is body Bags.