WEBVTT - The Mechanical Turk

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Hoax, a production of iHeart podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>Folks, it's a hug.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I haven't seen when us to see the Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to Hoax, a podcast about the lies we wish were true.

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<v Speaker 2>And truths that sound like lies. I'm the ghost of

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<v Speaker 2>Danish Wartz, and I'm the evil twin of Lizzie Logan.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the show, Lizzie. Are you a chess player? No? I,

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<v Speaker 2>at the very beginning of this year learned the basic

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<v Speaker 2>rules of how each of the pieces moved. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>that's step one, and that is the entirety of my

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<v Speaker 2>chess career.

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<v Speaker 1>I like playing chess, and I like the aesthetics of chess.

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<v Speaker 1>I like studying chess like I love doing like tutorials

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<v Speaker 1>and puzzles online. But I'm not good at chess at

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<v Speaker 1>all because I'm too impatient. I just like moving the pieces.

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<v Speaker 2>I like the word chess. Yeah, and I am a

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<v Speaker 2>huge Abba fan, and therefore I have some affection for

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<v Speaker 2>the musical Chess.

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<v Speaker 1>Should we go to New Should we plan a hoax

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<v Speaker 1>trip to New York to see a loosely associated, very

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<v Speaker 1>tangential production of Chess.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure?

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<v Speaker 1>All of this is to say this episode involves chess, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>but it does not require any knowledge of how the

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<v Speaker 1>game works except that it is, you know, a game

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<v Speaker 1>of wits.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I mean I feel like it's like, if

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<v Speaker 2>you don't know what chess is, it's really it's a

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<v Speaker 2>board game and it's really hard, and it's really old,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's black pieces and white pieces. But I think

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<v Speaker 2>we can assume that all the listeners know what chess is. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>here's another question.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you does it mean anything if I say mechanical

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<v Speaker 1>turk to you?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So here's here's the thing, Dana, Yeah, I know

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<v Speaker 2>this one. Yeah, and I know what it actually was.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, what do you think it was? Or what do

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<v Speaker 1>you think it is?

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<v Speaker 2>The hoax? I mean, could like all of it?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't think you're going to get it right, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>because I watched, like, I watched a YouTube video about

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<v Speaker 3>cheating scandals in chess, okay, and they covered this one

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<v Speaker 3>and they said that it was and we can edit

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<v Speaker 3>this out if I'm about to ruin the episode.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a lot more convoluted, I think than you're gonna get.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay. Well, yeah, okay, obviously, because you said this was

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<v Speaker 2>a long episode, but what what the YouTuber Sarah z

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<v Speaker 2>Ed said was that it was chess masters crouched underneath

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<v Speaker 2>just playing chess against whoever was playing chess against the

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<v Speaker 2>like quote unquote automaton and moving the like above ground

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<v Speaker 2>pieces with magnets, like just playing chess by candlelight.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's like seventy percent right, Okay, because spoiler alert,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a hoax. Yes, I'm gonna We're gonna get

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<v Speaker 1>off the you know, get off the bat and say

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<v Speaker 1>this is a podcast called hoax.

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<v Speaker 4>This is a hoax.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, but we're going to get into deeper and I

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<v Speaker 1>think actually pretty philosophical questions about and if a robot

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<v Speaker 1>can play chess.

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<v Speaker 2>So at a tart.

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<v Speaker 1>This is an episode about a man named Wolfgang von Kempelin.

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<v Speaker 1>Some people falsely say that he's a baron.

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<v Speaker 2>He's not.

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<v Speaker 1>He's related to a baron, but like if you ever

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<v Speaker 1>see that, you're like, this person doesn't know what they're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about. And he created an automaton that he claimed

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<v Speaker 1>could play chess.

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<v Speaker 2>And he well, he also claimed it was an automaton. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he created like a puppet. Basically, we're going to get in.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm getting ahead of you, Okay, I'll just let you.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll let you be the co host of this podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>So let me place you now in the seventeen hundreds. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>Industrial Revolution. Everything ell is terrible. Yeah, everyone smells horrible.

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<v Speaker 1>No one's taking enough baths, breath everywhere, no deodorant, The

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<v Speaker 1>dusteral revolution is happening, and people are getting excited by automatons. Basically,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean quite literally, Like when I say automaton, what

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<v Speaker 1>you're picturing like a jerky machine that's sometimes humanoid like

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<v Speaker 1>doing things like that is correct, this kind of I

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<v Speaker 1>could get into so much more detail, but because we

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<v Speaker 1>have to focus this episode. It's sort of like a

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<v Speaker 1>an evolution from medieval clocks.

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<v Speaker 2>If you picture like.

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<v Speaker 1>A medieval clock tower, eventually like figurines came out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like a cuckoo clock.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, so like basically what happened I'm like racing

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<v Speaker 1>through this in the Western world. Eventually what happened was

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<v Speaker 1>clockmakers began making smaller and smaller automata for like clocks

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<v Speaker 1>for rich people that it's like it hits twelve and

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<v Speaker 1>like a little person comes out and does something. And

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<v Speaker 1>then eventually these clockmakers built just like autonom automata for

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<v Speaker 1>rich people to like entertain themselves, okay, and they kind

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<v Speaker 1>of became like sometimes they were like mechanical pictures with

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<v Speaker 1>moving parts, or like mechanical like things for your table,

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<v Speaker 1>like that could pour tea on their own.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like in the opening of Wallace and Gromitt where

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<v Speaker 2>he can like put his pants on.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like that, but much smaller, and for rich people

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<v Speaker 1>to like put in their cabinets of curiosities. O.

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<v Speaker 4>Cool.

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<v Speaker 1>And most of these end up in the collection of

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<v Speaker 1>kings and queens and emperors, which is which encourages engineers

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<v Speaker 1>to do this sort of thing, because if you were

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<v Speaker 1>like an engineer who wants to like win favor of

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<v Speaker 1>a king or queen, you like make them a fun

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<v Speaker 1>little gift.

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<v Speaker 2>I like sucks that we don't do this anymore, Like

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure someone is. I'm just like, why hasn't anyone

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<v Speaker 2>ever gotten in one of these?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, so, the kind of father of the biomechanical automaton

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<v Speaker 1>like automatons that were meant to like look like people

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<v Speaker 1>is a guy named Jacques de Vaczon who makes three

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<v Speaker 1>kind of very famous automaton in seventeen thirty eight, one

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<v Speaker 1>that can play a flute, yeah, like fake lungs. So okay,

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<v Speaker 1>he's blowing and it is playing the flute, so I

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<v Speaker 1>guess we.

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<v Speaker 2>Do still have them. They're just sex dolls. Okay. Sorry

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<v Speaker 2>you said blowing and I was like, yeah, yeah, blowing.

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<v Speaker 2>Point Okay. He can make one that has like do

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<v Speaker 2>you have to pump it or does it have like

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<v Speaker 2>a little battery.

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<v Speaker 1>Basically most of them work the way grandfather clocks work

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<v Speaker 1>with weight you act like, I know you have grandfather clops,

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<v Speaker 1>but like weighted okay, and you have to wind it up.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>He also makes a boy with a pipe and a

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<v Speaker 1>drum so like playing music okay. And then he makes

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<v Speaker 1>what he thinks is his ps their resistance, this duck

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<v Speaker 1>that can simulate digestion, like you feed it bread crumbs

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<v Speaker 1>and then it would excrete. I'm gonna say, like like

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<v Speaker 1>breadcrumb poop.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I mean that would be like interesting, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Like imagine if you see like a mechanical duck that

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<v Speaker 1>you can actually feed bread crumbs and then like it

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<v Speaker 1>poops out like green pell watery.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing I want to note here is it didn't

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't actually real. He was claiming that it was

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<v Speaker 1>like digesting and I'm putting that in air quote digesting

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<v Speaker 1>the pellets, but really it just happened.

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<v Speaker 2>There was two other it was it's like how baby

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<v Speaker 2>dolls work, where it's you feed it baby food and

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<v Speaker 2>some and then like you like change the diaper. But

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<v Speaker 2>really it's that like you're putting one thing in, you're

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<v Speaker 2>putting in substance A, and then substance B is coming in. Exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a pre set chamber with like green food diet,

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<v Speaker 1>not food die, but like green dyed pellets. Yeah, came

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<v Speaker 1>out as the poop. So it's interesting and it's cool,

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<v Speaker 1>but actually, you know, we'll dismember the prestige. The prestige

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<v Speaker 1>is happening. Although very interestingly, this man did kind of

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<v Speaker 1>invent the first flexible rubber tube in order to build

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<v Speaker 1>the like quote unquote intestines. So actually good scientific and

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<v Speaker 1>important things are being developed in service of these I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, like toy toys, yeah, entertainments.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, go off tube tube guy.

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<v Speaker 1>But he sort of causes this, sir of public interest

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<v Speaker 1>in automata. If you're an engineer, it's kind of like

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<v Speaker 1>a fun challenge, especially if you're trying to at this

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<v Speaker 1>point understand how humans work, like we're they're still understanding

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<v Speaker 1>like biology, and so they're kind of scientists scientists, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>using you loosely, but like these engineers are kind of

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<v Speaker 1>using automata to explore what they can figure out about

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<v Speaker 1>how humans work. Like the guy, this guy making a

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<v Speaker 1>flute playing automaton was interested in like lung pressure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, totally. I mean if you can, cause eventually

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<v Speaker 2>we're gonna get like someone's going to make a pacemaker.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, you know, it's all progress.

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<v Speaker 1>But like that actually is the thesis of the episode,

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<v Speaker 1>that like people are doing weird, little interesting things and

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<v Speaker 1>it is progress, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>What, Like some a lot of things are made by

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<v Speaker 2>people like fucking around.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but correct and keep that in mind. Okay, we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to focus on this guy named Wolfgang von Kempelein.

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<v Speaker 1>He was born in seventy thirty four and he's a

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<v Speaker 1>bureaucrat in the court of Maria Theresa of Austria. And

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<v Speaker 1>if that name kind of sounds familiar, it's because she's

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<v Speaker 1>Marie Antoinette's mom. Yes, So Wolfgang is this sort of

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<v Speaker 1>notably handsome man. He speaks several languages. He's charming. He's

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<v Speaker 1>sort of this like rising star in the bureaucracy. He

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<v Speaker 1>has this translation job translating the Hungarian civil Code from

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<v Speaker 1>Latin to German, which is now the new official language

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<v Speaker 1>of the Austro Hungarian Empire, and he does it in

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<v Speaker 1>just a few days, which astonishes people, and everyone's so

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<v Speaker 1>impressed by him. And he gets a job as a

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<v Speaker 1>counselor to the Imperial court. He loves tinkering, and now

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<v Speaker 1>that he's sort of a successful bureaucrat, he has enough

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<v Speaker 1>money to kind of afford his science hobby. He gets

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<v Speaker 1>sort of jobs with the government as a comptroller of

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<v Speaker 1>salt mines in Transylvania and comes up with a system

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<v Speaker 1>of pumps to drain the minds when they flood, which

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<v Speaker 1>seems very valuable. He designed waterworks for a castle in Presburg,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the capital of Hungary now Bratislava. He is

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<v Speaker 1>coordinating the settlement of this mountainous region in Hungary called Banat,

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<v Speaker 1>which is like designing the houses and like planning the villages,

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<v Speaker 1>like literally planning the settlement. And I do want to

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<v Speaker 1>point out in this book that I read about this

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<v Speaker 1>whole subject called the mechanical Turk by Tom Standage. There

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<v Speaker 1>is the best sentence just out of context. And I

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<v Speaker 1>want to stress this sentence has no more context on

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<v Speaker 1>either the front or back. We never find out anything more.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no footnote. I could not find anything else about this.

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<v Speaker 2>Tom, get in touch with the podcast and let us

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<v Speaker 2>know more about this sentence.

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<v Speaker 1>So while he's, you know, coordinating this settlement, we get

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<v Speaker 1>this sentence. Quote. While in Banat, he solved a local mystery,

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<v Speaker 1>freeing several wrongly imprisoned men from jail.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, great, vague, vague great. I would like to know

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<v Speaker 2>what they were in prison for.

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<v Speaker 1>I would love to know what the local mystery is. Tom,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're listening, please let me know if anyone knows

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<v Speaker 1>any information on the local mystery he solved. That sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like a mini series, a Hulu TV show.

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<v Speaker 2>I would watch.

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<v Speaker 4>This guy.

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<v Speaker 2>Sounds like like a local folk hero of just like

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<v Speaker 2>he just he just wanders through town like tinkering the

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<v Speaker 2>way and fixing up little things and Sullivan mysteries.

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<v Speaker 1>And bringing innocent men from prison.

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<v Speaker 2>Or yeah, like a like like he should be the

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<v Speaker 2>star of a CBS procedural.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, the Automaton maker.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So now fast forward It's seventeen sixty nine and Marie

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<v Speaker 1>Race of Austria invites Kemperln to her palace in Vienna

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<v Speaker 1>to see a performance by this famous French illusionist, Francois Pelletier.

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<v Speaker 1>And she invite Kemperland because in addition to just like

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<v Speaker 1>being a wandering good Samaritan, he's known as kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a good explainer of popular science. He's kind of like

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<v Speaker 1>the Carl Sagan of his day, or like he would

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<v Speaker 1>be a great podcaster.

0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.439
<v Speaker 2>Is he almost like sort of like a MythBuster?

0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:18.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she literally brings him because he's like conversational, and

0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:23.839
<v Speaker 1>she wants to know how these tricks are going.

0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:24.200
<v Speaker 4>To be done.

0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, and these quote unquote like magic tricks are going

0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.000
<v Speaker 1>to be based in science, because at this point, if

0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.160
<v Speaker 1>you're like a magician or illusionist, you're really gonna want

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.600
<v Speaker 1>to stress that you're working with quote white magic as

0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:37.800
<v Speaker 1>opposed to black magic.

0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.680
<v Speaker 2>Right, You're like, I'm doing an illusion. It's magical from science,

0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:45.199
<v Speaker 2>not from I'm into the devil. Yeah.

0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:49.319
<v Speaker 1>So we don't know exactly what magic tricks Pelletaier performs.

0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:54.600
<v Speaker 1>We know that they're quote magnetic games. Kemperland is not impressed,

0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.840
<v Speaker 1>He publicly in front of the entire court says I

0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.800
<v Speaker 1>will return within a year with an invention far better

0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:07.120
<v Speaker 1>than anything this French guy has, and Maria Teresa actually

0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.600
<v Speaker 1>excuses him from his job for six months to go

0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.240
<v Speaker 1>do it and to go build an automaton more impressive

0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:16.160
<v Speaker 1>than anything this guy's showing you, which like great way

0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:17.160
<v Speaker 1>to get a sabbatical.

0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:21.640
<v Speaker 2>That is such a good like Babe Ruth calling a shot,

0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Kennedy being like we're going to go to the moon,

0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.200
<v Speaker 2>We're going to go to the moon. I'm making you

0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.640
<v Speaker 2>an automaton, Queen Marie.

0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:29.800
<v Speaker 1>And it really is like a matter of national pride

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:31.960
<v Speaker 1>at this point, Yeah, to like show like, well Austrians

0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:33.400
<v Speaker 1>can do this better than French people.

0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:35.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, So six months.

0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Later he comes back to the Palace in seventeen seventy

0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:41.080
<v Speaker 1>with this automaton.

0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:46.720
<v Speaker 2>And it's also a classic recipe for someone's gonna lie,

0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.000
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean, because you've now set yourself

0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.040
<v Speaker 2>a high bar that it's going to be so embarrassing

0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.000
<v Speaker 2>if you don't clear it, that you've left yourself no

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.560
<v Speaker 2>wiggle room that if you can't clear it, you're gonna lie.

0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, I want to actually be a little like in

0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.040
<v Speaker 1>defense of the hoax. This was in response to a

0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:06.760
<v Speaker 1>magic act.

0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, right, So he saw this.

0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.800
<v Speaker 1>Impressive magic act and he's like, I can explain how

0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:12.679
<v Speaker 1>you're doing all of this.

0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:13.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm not impressed.

0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.640
<v Speaker 1>He comes back, he says, I'm gonna come back with

0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:21.000
<v Speaker 1>something more impressive, and I will say, inarguably he does.

0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, he comes back with a with a better hoax. Yeah,

0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.160
<v Speaker 2>so he comes back. I'm going to describe this to you.

0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:32.880
<v Speaker 2>It's a humanoid figure wearing a turban with a black beard,

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:37.880
<v Speaker 2>wearing Ottoman robes. So it's he's known as the Mechanical Turk.

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.240
<v Speaker 2>And it's not only because it was like considered exotic,

0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.080
<v Speaker 2>like Turkish people. At this point in Vienna, people were

0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.520
<v Speaker 2>drinking Turkish coffee and having servants wear Turkish costumes.

0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:52.440
<v Speaker 1>It was very stylish. But also chess was popularized in

0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.680
<v Speaker 1>Persia and had spread throughout the Muslim world, so there's

0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.240
<v Speaker 1>also this sort of like chess association. Interesting with the

0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 1>Ottoman dress that the quote unquote mechanical Turk is wearing.

0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.160
<v Speaker 1>So it's a humanoid figure sitting at this cabinet that's

0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.240
<v Speaker 1>four feet long, two and a half feet deep and

0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.080
<v Speaker 1>three feet high, and it's on brass casters so it

0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.240
<v Speaker 1>can move and swivel around. The front of the cabinet

0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:20.920
<v Speaker 1>has three doors and a large drawer underneath. So I'm

0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:22.080
<v Speaker 1>showing Lizzie a picture.

0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.280
<v Speaker 2>It kind of looks like we'll put it on Instagram,

0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:25.880
<v Speaker 2>but it's one drawer that pulls out.

0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 1>The left arm holds when it's not playing, holds a

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 1>long smoking pipe. The right arm is at the on

0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.560
<v Speaker 1>the top of the cabinet and it will use its

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:37.920
<v Speaker 1>left arm to play chess, so that the smoking pipe

0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>is just decorative.

0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.880
<v Speaker 2>So and the right arm is decorative. Is decorative.

0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Ok, it's not going to be used. So he wheels

0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:49.920
<v Speaker 1>in this automaton and announces to the court that he

0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.760
<v Speaker 1>made an automaton that can play chess. Now, up until

0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.760
<v Speaker 1>this point, automaton technology had come pretty far. Automaton could

0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:03.200
<v Speaker 1>play musical instruments and play multiple musical like play multiple

0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.880
<v Speaker 1>songs on musical instruments, like there were I'm going to

0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.920
<v Speaker 1>use the word robots, but like robots that could play

0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.600
<v Speaker 1>the flute and like play different songs based on how

0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.640
<v Speaker 1>you again like quote unquote programmed, but like basically using

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 1>music box technology, like you know, so like people don't

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:25.040
<v Speaker 1>know exactly everything automatons can do because we're still figuring

0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:29.760
<v Speaker 1>it out. So people are I think, probably, if not

0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:36.240
<v Speaker 1>immediately skeptical, then like curious because maybe they're automaton can't

0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:36.960
<v Speaker 1>play chess.

0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.120
<v Speaker 2>And also like what does play chess mean? You know

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.480
<v Speaker 2>what I mean? Like to play chess and to be

0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.920
<v Speaker 2>good at chess are two very different things. Like I

0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.800
<v Speaker 2>can imagine someone maybe not at this time, but like

0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.600
<v Speaker 2>if you told me that someone with some sort of

0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 2>rudimentary programming device made a little machine that could move

0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:01.480
<v Speaker 2>all of the pieces in the way that the different

0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.800
<v Speaker 2>pieces move, I would be like, yeah, that's not that

0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:07.040
<v Speaker 2>many different functions. There's what like ten different pieces in

0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.760
<v Speaker 2>chess that like that, that's not that many different functions.

0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.639
<v Speaker 2>That's different from knowing. That's different from being able to

0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.000
<v Speaker 2>understand and process how the other person has moved their

0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.480
<v Speaker 2>pieces and then what the rules are for you know

0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:25.360
<v Speaker 2>what I mean, likes keep them all in mind. That's

0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:29.000
<v Speaker 2>different Like I could like move upon and move a

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.879
<v Speaker 2>night and move a castle and that that counts as

0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 2>playing chess, but like understanding how many moves away from

0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.199
<v Speaker 2>checkmate I am like playing a full game of chess

0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:44.119
<v Speaker 2>is different, so like to play chess, like, you know,

0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.800
<v Speaker 2>let's get real philosophical, we will get philosophical.

0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.920
<v Speaker 1>So basically he wheels in this automaton. I think most

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.919
<v Speaker 1>people are thinking exactly what Lizzie positive at the beginning

0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:58.320
<v Speaker 1>of this episode, that like, well, there's a big old cabinet,

0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.160
<v Speaker 1>a guy's just tucked inside there, right.

0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:06.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and again I posited that based on a YouTube. Okay,

0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:12.800
<v Speaker 2>so I cited my sources and I did that's like

0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:14.840
<v Speaker 2>based on me being a scholar.

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:19.879
<v Speaker 1>Based on YouTube. So part of the presentation of the

0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Mechanical Turk is kind of a performance. So how the

0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.080
<v Speaker 1>performance begins is compelling. Comes over to the cabinet and

0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:30.840
<v Speaker 1>at first he just unlocks the left hand side and

0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:34.240
<v Speaker 1>he shows the left hand cabinet opens and there's like

0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.480
<v Speaker 1>clockwork machinery inside and sort of like the circular cylinder

0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.200
<v Speaker 1>that was used in like music playing automaton at the time,

0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.000
<v Speaker 1>So like the machinery would kind of look familiar to

0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:48.520
<v Speaker 1>some people clockwork machinery. And he would walk around the

0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:52.000
<v Speaker 1>back of the machine and hold open another little door

0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:53.880
<v Speaker 1>and hold a candle up in the back to show

0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:58.280
<v Speaker 1>like nothing behind there. Then he would close that, open

0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.760
<v Speaker 1>up the big bottom drawer and show inside there's a

0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:04.439
<v Speaker 1>you know, chess pieces that he would pull out, and

0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:09.080
<v Speaker 1>there was a pillow that then went under the automaton's elbow.

0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.600
<v Speaker 1>And then you're probably thinking like, oh, well, then the

0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:15.639
<v Speaker 1>person's probably hiding in the other big container. Well that's

0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.920
<v Speaker 1>when you know the show continues asked and answered. Then

0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.440
<v Speaker 1>he would open the big section, the last like two

0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:26.159
<v Speaker 1>thirds right section of the cabinet and show that it

0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.840
<v Speaker 1>was mostly empty if you thought a person was in there.

0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.439
<v Speaker 1>It's like mostly lined with dark cloth. There's some like

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.880
<v Speaker 1>general mechanics, there's a red cushion, and there's a wooden

0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.080
<v Speaker 1>box that then he like pulls out so and he

0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:43.320
<v Speaker 1>would also spin the whole thing around to be like

0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.760
<v Speaker 1>see nothing to see here. He lifts up the figure's

0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.320
<v Speaker 1>robe from behind to show like there's machinery behind it,

0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.320
<v Speaker 1>spin it around on its casters, and then put everything

0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.640
<v Speaker 1>back in place and say, everyone got a good look,

0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:56.159
<v Speaker 1>let's go.

0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is like literally what magicians do before

0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:00.879
<v Speaker 2>they saw a lady in half. This is the exact same,

0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.359
<v Speaker 2>the exact same thing of like there's nothing in the box,

0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:05.840
<v Speaker 2>like this is a there's an exact way you do this.

0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:06.880
<v Speaker 2>It's a magic trick.

0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:09.680
<v Speaker 1>What part of the process is now is he takes

0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.760
<v Speaker 1>out a candelabra, puts it on top, lights it. He's

0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.399
<v Speaker 1>holding this wooden box that he'll occasionally just kind of

0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:17.760
<v Speaker 1>like look in, so you're like, what's going on with

0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 1>that box? And he invites someone to play chess with it.

0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.840
<v Speaker 1>A count Count Kobunzel will be the first opponent. And

0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.000
<v Speaker 1>what kind of happened is you move your piece. He

0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.679
<v Speaker 1>will ask you to try to move your piece exactly

0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.320
<v Speaker 1>to the center of each square to make it easier

0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.760
<v Speaker 1>for the automaton, because it will move its left hand

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.320
<v Speaker 1>and like use its hand like kind of like a

0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 1>claw machine to like pick up the pieces.

0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:44.440
<v Speaker 2>And move them.

0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.119
<v Speaker 1>And it will it will play a game of chess

0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.840
<v Speaker 1>using its like mechanical arm, and if you moved the

0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.000
<v Speaker 1>incorrect piece, it would shake its head and then move

0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:56.639
<v Speaker 1>your piece back to where it was supposed to be.

0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.119
<v Speaker 1>It the machine would nod twice if it checked to

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.520
<v Speaker 1>your if it threatened your queen, and then three times

0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.520
<v Speaker 1>if it checked your king. Eventually, later in the life

0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:09.119
<v Speaker 1>of this machine, it will actually say check and then

0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:12.600
<v Speaker 1>eventually check in French. And it could also roll ittize,

0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.080
<v Speaker 1>which is very funny. That is my favorite detail. As

0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:20.960
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned before, Kemberland would like move around during this

0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.800
<v Speaker 1>performance every few moves and not at regular intervals. He

0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:27.320
<v Speaker 1>would like come and rewind it up. He would like

0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.280
<v Speaker 1>look in this box he was holding sometimes and he

0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:32.880
<v Speaker 1>would just like walk around the room. He would let

0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:37.560
<v Speaker 1>observers take big magnets nearby to show like, not you

0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:39.840
<v Speaker 1>can disturb this with magnets. That's not how I'm doing this,

0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.960
<v Speaker 1>and let it. Let it play chess. In addition to

0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.439
<v Speaker 1>actually playing full games of chess, it could do this

0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.639
<v Speaker 1>thing called the Night's Tour, which is like a chess

0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.960
<v Speaker 1>puzzle trick where you can put a knight on any

0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:56.000
<v Speaker 1>piece of the board and the goal is to try

0:21:56.000 --> 0:22:00.159
<v Speaker 1>to get it to touch every piece, every square of

0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:01.480
<v Speaker 1>the board only once.

0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh interesting, So it's like a math puzzle. Yeah, and

0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:06.919
<v Speaker 2>it could do that. That's the type of thing that

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.240
<v Speaker 2>I would have been like as a kid. You could

0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:14.040
<v Speaker 2>have kept me occupied for a couple of hours trying

0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.360
<v Speaker 2>to do that. And it's also like as a computer game,

0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:17.360
<v Speaker 2>and it's also.

0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:18.920
<v Speaker 1>The kind of thing that like you're like, I could

0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:20.520
<v Speaker 1>see an automaton being able to do this.

0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, once somebody figured it out, you could just program

0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:26.080
<v Speaker 2>an automaton to do that series of moves, like it

0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:27.840
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't have to think, it would just do the same

0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:30.600
<v Speaker 2>one every time. Yeah, but actually if you picked a

0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:34.160
<v Speaker 2>different disquence, okay, okay, okay, yeah, it's like the audience

0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:34.600
<v Speaker 2>could pick.

0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.919
<v Speaker 1>So during this first performance, he also does something. He

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.560
<v Speaker 1>lets the automaton do something that like pretty quickly he'll

0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:44.560
<v Speaker 1>remove from the performance, which is letting it like speak

0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.200
<v Speaker 1>using a letter board, like a wheezy board like cast

0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:50.080
<v Speaker 1>get questions and it would answer, but like pretty quickly,

0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.280
<v Speaker 1>he's like gilding the lily. This is just a chess

0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:55.879
<v Speaker 1>playing robot. So that gets retired pretty quick.

0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Because if it can talk, then it's just like a oh,

0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:01.480
<v Speaker 2>you've invented like a whole person. Yeah you're like you're.

0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:04.240
<v Speaker 1>Actually again like this podcast is called hoax. This is

0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:07.639
<v Speaker 1>a hoax. I think Templeon realized, Like okay, if I'm

0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:10.520
<v Speaker 1>also positive that it can answer questions like let's just.

0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Think what you know what I mean, like where is

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:15.000
<v Speaker 2>where does this end?

0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:19.479
<v Speaker 1>It's a chess robot, So the so unsurprisingly is a

0:23:19.640 --> 0:23:22.280
<v Speaker 1>massive success. People cannot figure out how he did it.

0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:24.840
<v Speaker 1>People think he actually he invented a chess playing robot.

0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:27.479
<v Speaker 2>Well, because this is so smart, because it's not just

0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:30.560
<v Speaker 2>a magic trick. It's also like can you beat this

0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:33.600
<v Speaker 2>robot in chess? And there's a competition element.

0:23:33.320 --> 0:23:36.159
<v Speaker 1>And it's not just can you solve that this isn't true.

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:38.760
<v Speaker 1>There's also we're at the exact stage of history where

0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:42.760
<v Speaker 1>you're like, maybe you can make a robot that plays chess.

0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:45.760
<v Speaker 2>And also just are you good enough to beat the robot?

0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:49.119
<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, there's two Like for smart people, there's like

0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:52.360
<v Speaker 2>three different games to play, Like one of them's chess,

0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:54.800
<v Speaker 2>the other is like how does this work? And then

0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:57.080
<v Speaker 2>the other one is like does this work? Does this?

0:23:57.240 --> 0:23:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Is this real?

0:23:57.840 --> 0:23:58.119
<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

0:23:58.280 --> 0:23:58.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:01.720
<v Speaker 1>So it becomes a massive success. The Empress loves it,

0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:05.119
<v Speaker 1>makes Kempellon do a bunch of appearances, and it becomes

0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:08.160
<v Speaker 1>the talk of basically Europe because people at court write

0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:09.480
<v Speaker 1>letters describing it.

0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:13.000
<v Speaker 2>And you don't even need to. Another reason to not

0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:14.520
<v Speaker 2>have it talk is that it doesn't need to speak

0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:14.959
<v Speaker 2>a language.

0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:19.919
<v Speaker 1>Everybody speaks speaks chess, and people are like arguing in

0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:23.040
<v Speaker 1>public letters to newspapers about whether it's even possible to

0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:25.760
<v Speaker 1>have a machine play chess. One guy writes that, like,

0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:28.680
<v Speaker 1>obviously there's a guy in the cabinet, and then another

0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:30.679
<v Speaker 1>guy writes back, that's like, no, I saw it inside

0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:32.800
<v Speaker 1>the cabinet. It is not big enough for even a

0:24:32.840 --> 0:24:36.280
<v Speaker 1>small child or a monkey. And that's important because there

0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:38.000
<v Speaker 1>was a report at this time that the Sultan of

0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Baghdad had a chess playing monkey. So you're like, maybe

0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:43.040
<v Speaker 1>I have a tiny monkey inside, but it just does

0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:46.200
<v Speaker 1>not seem physically possible to have a person in there.

0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 1>Publication of these letters goes to you know, French newspapers.

0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:54.600
<v Speaker 1>The Empress brings Kempelland back from his posting in Bana,

0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:58.439
<v Speaker 1>where presumably he was solving other local mysteries, and she

0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:01.480
<v Speaker 1>gives him an additional allow no one's basically doubling his

0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:04.920
<v Speaker 1>salary and like gives him a bunch of engineering tasks

0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:08.919
<v Speaker 1>like he mission accomplished. Okay, now he's at court, like

0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:13.600
<v Speaker 1>making hydraulic systems, like elaborate mechanical beds, Like he wants

0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:17.639
<v Speaker 1>to be someone who's like doing science, and like she's like,

0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:22.520
<v Speaker 1>you nailed this automaton entertainment. Here's double your salary dream job.

0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine being the French magician who did such

0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:33.760
<v Speaker 2>a lackluster trick that in response, this guy like changed Europe.

0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:36.439
<v Speaker 1>Truly and like publicly, like I did this because this

0:25:36.440 --> 0:25:41.479
<v Speaker 1>guy's magic fucking sucks. Yes, Kemperlan tries to distance himself

0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:43.720
<v Speaker 1>from the Turk at this point, like it did its

0:25:43.800 --> 0:25:45.679
<v Speaker 1>job and it was a stepping stone for him to

0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:48.640
<v Speaker 1>do more science work. And he now he's doing work

0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:50.840
<v Speaker 1>that he's like more excited by. He's trying to work

0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:53.640
<v Speaker 1>on a typewriter that blind people can use, and he's

0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 1>very interested in a machine that can imitate the human voice.

0:25:58.400 --> 0:26:00.800
<v Speaker 2>He's just like he's like trying to help the deaf

0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:03.440
<v Speaker 2>in the Yeah, it's kind of like he.

0:26:03.440 --> 0:26:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Used this to get his name out there and now

0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:06.600
<v Speaker 1>he's doing the things.

0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:07.399
<v Speaker 2>It's like a parent.

0:26:07.480 --> 0:26:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Imagine someone making a parody Twitter account in college that

0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:13.160
<v Speaker 1>they're like, great, I got my name out there, and now.

0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:16.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna do like more work. I'm proud of that

0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:19.800
<v Speaker 2>sort of thing that would never happen. Imagine that the

0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:21.119
<v Speaker 2>heyday of twenty fourteen.

0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:25.520
<v Speaker 1>So there's this gap of several years where the mechanical

0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:29.359
<v Speaker 1>Church just doesn't play in seventeen seventy four, there's the

0:26:29.440 --> 0:26:33.600
<v Speaker 1>Scottish nobleman named Sir Robert Murray who basically insists on

0:26:33.680 --> 0:26:37.040
<v Speaker 1>playing and he writes these letters and Kempelland's like it's broken,

0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:39.120
<v Speaker 1>it needs to be maintained, and he's like, no, no,

0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:41.880
<v Speaker 1>I insist. He writes that he and like fifteen other

0:26:41.960 --> 0:26:45.600
<v Speaker 1>scotsmen come to the scientist's house to play, and then

0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:49.480
<v Speaker 1>he comments, he writes that, like quote, the automaton had

0:26:49.520 --> 0:26:52.960
<v Speaker 1>been dismounted for some years because I suppose it took

0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:56.760
<v Speaker 1>up too much of the gentleman's time. So again Kimpellan

0:26:56.920 --> 0:27:00.399
<v Speaker 1>is like, I'm a civil servant, I'm an engineer'roud of

0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:02.200
<v Speaker 1>the fact that I made this thing and no one

0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:05.439
<v Speaker 1>has correctly guessed how it works. But this isn't like

0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:10.560
<v Speaker 1>what my what, I'm my main interest. Yeah okay yeah.

0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:14.800
<v Speaker 1>But then Maria Teresa dies and the new emperor is

0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:19.040
<v Speaker 1>her son, Joseph the Second, and it's a little tricky

0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:21.760
<v Speaker 1>when you're a civil servant who's like had been given

0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:24.639
<v Speaker 1>a big bonus by like a patron who liked you,

0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:28.359
<v Speaker 1>and now she's not in power anymore, so you know,

0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:31.600
<v Speaker 1>he wants to make Joseph the Second. Happy Joseph the

0:27:31.640 --> 0:27:35.600
<v Speaker 1>Second has this visit coming up from Grand Duke Paul

0:27:35.760 --> 0:27:38.720
<v Speaker 1>of Russia, who's the son of Catherine the Great. They

0:27:38.760 --> 0:27:41.200
<v Speaker 1>need entertainment. They want to like show off how smart

0:27:41.240 --> 0:27:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Austria is, and so they're like, hey, wasn't there that

0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:47.440
<v Speaker 1>like mechanical chess playing Turk?

0:27:47.560 --> 0:27:48.320
<v Speaker 2>Like why don't we get that?

0:27:48.440 --> 0:27:54.760
<v Speaker 1>Everybody liked it like that, So he resurrects the mechanical Turk.

0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:57.520
<v Speaker 2>You know what it is. It's like if you're really

0:27:57.600 --> 0:28:00.679
<v Speaker 2>known for like being pee wee, you're like, I'm going

0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:03.120
<v Speaker 2>to do other acting roles and it's like you can.

0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:05.840
<v Speaker 2>That's not what people want to see, but like you can.

0:28:06.040 --> 0:28:07.200
<v Speaker 2>We want you to play the hits.

0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so the new and then when the new Emperor

0:28:11.080 --> 0:28:12.520
<v Speaker 1>tells you to play the hits, you play that.

0:28:12.720 --> 0:28:13.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:16.159
<v Speaker 1>So he comes back with the Chess Player and it

0:28:16.280 --> 0:28:20.040
<v Speaker 1>is a still a huge and it's so success every

0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:21.880
<v Speaker 1>nostalgia like yeah.

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:25.800
<v Speaker 5>The Turk, yeah, I remember, and I still can't figure

0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:26.440
<v Speaker 5>out how it works.

0:28:26.920 --> 0:28:28.840
<v Speaker 1>And it's such a big hit that Joseph the Second

0:28:29.000 --> 0:28:32.520
<v Speaker 1>insists on a two year European tour. He's like, you

0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:38.160
<v Speaker 1>are no more bureaucratic due it's a mandatory sabbatical. And

0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:40.560
<v Speaker 1>again it's like he has to do it because it's

0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:41.160
<v Speaker 1>the emperor.

0:28:41.320 --> 0:28:43.440
<v Speaker 2>It's like a Dina Menzel. You're singing let it Go.

0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:45.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't care if you can hit the notes. You

0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:48.880
<v Speaker 2>are we were trying. You are singing let it go.

0:28:49.000 --> 0:28:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's almost as if the automaton has a life

0:28:52.880 --> 0:29:03.800
<v Speaker 1>of its own, so he wants it to tour around Europe.

0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:06.440
<v Speaker 1>Paris is the logical first step because it's sort of

0:29:06.440 --> 0:29:10.040
<v Speaker 1>the chess capital of Europe. The trip begins in April

0:29:10.080 --> 0:29:10.560
<v Speaker 1>of seventeen.

0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:14.800
<v Speaker 2>They ever go to Turkey. No, No, that's so rude.

0:29:14.920 --> 0:29:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it stops at Versailles and it's so popular there

0:29:20.320 --> 0:29:22.840
<v Speaker 1>they stay longer than expected, and they go to Paris,

0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:26.040
<v Speaker 1>where it's on display. Spectators are charged like a small

0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:30.479
<v Speaker 1>admission fee. It will lose a game occasionally. It loses

0:29:30.520 --> 0:29:33.200
<v Speaker 1>to this man named mister Bernard, and he is a

0:29:33.320 --> 0:29:38.480
<v Speaker 1>second rank player, which sounds bad. Your second rank, Well.

0:29:38.480 --> 0:29:41.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean, but out of how many ranks, well.

0:29:41.520 --> 0:29:44.480
<v Speaker 1>I was, there were only five second rank players and

0:29:44.520 --> 0:29:46.320
<v Speaker 1>only two first rank players.

0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like like tennis, where like to even get

0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:51.560
<v Speaker 2>a rank you have to be like real gu yeah exactly.

0:29:51.880 --> 0:29:56.080
<v Speaker 1>So throughout the Mechanical Tricks life, it will lose a

0:29:56.120 --> 0:30:00.360
<v Speaker 1>handful of games, but it will win so many more. Okay,

0:30:01.080 --> 0:30:04.600
<v Speaker 1>so it's like, you know, keeps when it loses, it's notable.

0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So that's like bragging rights. It's like I beat

0:30:07.960 --> 0:30:11.920
<v Speaker 2>that robot. Yeah exactly. Like I know, we know the

0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:14.440
<v Speaker 2>name of this guy, like a lawyer. We know who

0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:15.280
<v Speaker 2>he is. Oh, good job.

0:30:15.640 --> 0:30:18.320
<v Speaker 1>It keeps going throughout the summer. People are writing letters

0:30:18.320 --> 0:30:21.240
<v Speaker 1>about it. It stays at the Cafe de la Regions,

0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:24.600
<v Speaker 1>which is like the chess cafe where people played.

0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh I thought you meant that, like it stayed there

0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:30.800
<v Speaker 2>as a hotel And I was like, you mean the

0:30:30.840 --> 0:30:33.280
<v Speaker 2>guy who made it stayed there. I was like, did

0:30:33.440 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 2>get its own room?

0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:38.760
<v Speaker 1>Like no, it got its own box? Yeah, but no,

0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:41.360
<v Speaker 1>it's like this is like the cafe stood up there.

0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:42.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:45.920
<v Speaker 1>And so there's a legendary player named Leagal who's one

0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:48.720
<v Speaker 1>of the first ranked players, and it loses to him.

0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:54.200
<v Speaker 1>But everyone really wanted to play this legendary player named Philidor.

0:30:54.760 --> 0:30:58.000
<v Speaker 1>That's like the the match of the century. Everyone wants to.

0:30:57.920 --> 0:31:00.680
<v Speaker 2>See yon Yeah okay, yeah.

0:31:00.560 --> 0:31:02.920
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say ten Jennings versus Watson.

0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:06.200
<v Speaker 2>Whatever. Didn't Watson play chess? Yeah?

0:31:06.280 --> 0:31:08.040
<v Speaker 1>I think, okay, no, no, Well we'll get to that

0:31:08.080 --> 0:31:08.400
<v Speaker 1>a little.

0:31:08.600 --> 0:31:10.959
<v Speaker 2>I want to see the automaton play Watson.

0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:13.960
<v Speaker 1>It's the deep thought playing casparovn chess.

0:31:14.560 --> 0:31:16.680
<v Speaker 2>We'll get there, okay.

0:31:17.240 --> 0:31:21.320
<v Speaker 1>So Philidor is this amazing French player. He took on

0:31:21.400 --> 0:31:25.240
<v Speaker 1>three opponents at once while blindfolded, which seems insane.

0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:28.680
<v Speaker 2>I think, once you're that good at chess, like being

0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:30.880
<v Speaker 2>able to see the board kind of doesn't matter, so

0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:32.960
<v Speaker 2>I think they like to do it blindfolded just to

0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:33.240
<v Speaker 2>be like.

0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Tee he Well, he won. It was two wins in

0:31:35.960 --> 0:31:39.200
<v Speaker 1>one draw in case you're curious, and Philadora for him,

0:31:39.200 --> 0:31:42.480
<v Speaker 1>plays the Turk. Philidor does win, Yeah, but he later

0:31:42.560 --> 0:31:46.120
<v Speaker 1>says it was a really hard time. And he says

0:31:46.160 --> 0:31:48.400
<v Speaker 1>that it was pretty terrifying.

0:31:48.680 --> 0:31:49.560
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not sure if it.

0:31:49.480 --> 0:31:51.120
<v Speaker 1>Was because it was hard playing chess or it's just

0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:53.120
<v Speaker 1>kind of like weird and scary to look at. Like

0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:54.959
<v Speaker 1>maybe he thought it was terrifying just because it was

0:31:55.040 --> 0:31:56.000
<v Speaker 1>like scary.

0:31:56.200 --> 0:32:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, I feel like both, like if you were I mean,

0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:03.520
<v Speaker 2>at this point, these people, chess is their full time job, right,

0:32:04.120 --> 0:32:07.960
<v Speaker 2>So like, if you are just used to going human

0:32:08.080 --> 0:32:11.080
<v Speaker 2>a human like kind of playing anything except a human

0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:13.880
<v Speaker 2>would probably be really scary, and then playing something that

0:32:13.920 --> 0:32:16.880
<v Speaker 2>looks like a human but isn't, it's probably like so

0:32:17.960 --> 0:32:23.320
<v Speaker 2>freaking yeah, where you're just like hey, man, like, hey,

0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:29.720
<v Speaker 2>freaky robo wooden, dude, keep moving your pieces around.

0:32:30.240 --> 0:32:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, Philidor isn't the only celebrity in Paris around this time.

0:32:34.360 --> 0:32:36.640
<v Speaker 2>Who else is famous in Paris at this time?

0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:42.000
<v Speaker 1>Dana A little man named Benjamin Franklin. Oh, I've heard

0:32:42.040 --> 0:32:44.959
<v Speaker 1>of him, heard of him. He was the signatory at

0:32:44.960 --> 0:32:46.880
<v Speaker 1>the Treaty of Paris at the end of the American

0:32:46.880 --> 0:32:49.960
<v Speaker 1>Revolutionary War, so he's still representing the US in France

0:32:49.960 --> 0:32:53.800
<v Speaker 1>at this time. Templand is a huge Ben Franklin fan.

0:32:54.120 --> 0:32:56.680
<v Speaker 2>That makes sense because they both like to make so

0:32:56.760 --> 0:32:58.760
<v Speaker 2>he's like a fanboy science.

0:32:59.000 --> 0:33:02.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And he right to Benjamin Franklin to be like, hey,

0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:05.680
<v Speaker 1>fandom fan, like, can I meet with you? And so

0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Ben Franklin happens to also be a chess fanatic. Kemberland

0:33:10.040 --> 0:33:13.160
<v Speaker 1>invites Franklin to his rooms to demonstrate the chess player,

0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:15.160
<v Speaker 1>to like show him the progress he's making on his

0:33:15.280 --> 0:33:19.400
<v Speaker 1>like speaking machine because like he's fan boying out he

0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:22.400
<v Speaker 1>gets to use his chess player, like he's like, okay,

0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:23.920
<v Speaker 1>I have to be on this tour of Europe. I

0:33:23.960 --> 0:33:25.840
<v Speaker 1>wish I wasn't, but at least I can like meet

0:33:25.840 --> 0:33:31.000
<v Speaker 1>my idols. And Benjamin Franklin plays the automaton and he loses.

0:33:31.640 --> 0:33:34.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, Benjamin Franklin was good at so many things.

0:33:34.880 --> 0:33:36.360
<v Speaker 2>It's okay if he's bad at one thing, and that

0:33:36.400 --> 0:33:37.200
<v Speaker 2>thing is chess.

0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:39.440
<v Speaker 1>And he probably wasn't even bad this the chess player

0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:40.320
<v Speaker 1>is just like really good.

0:33:40.400 --> 0:33:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:33:41.400 --> 0:33:43.440
<v Speaker 1>So then it goes to London in the autumn of

0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:47.240
<v Speaker 1>seventeen eighty three, goes on display five shillings. At the

0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:50.280
<v Speaker 1>same time, there's this sort of promotional book that's published

0:33:50.320 --> 0:33:53.280
<v Speaker 1>by a man named Carl Gottlieb von Windisch, who's a

0:33:53.320 --> 0:33:55.520
<v Speaker 1>friend of Kemberland. So we know it's like it's like

0:33:55.560 --> 0:33:59.680
<v Speaker 1>an authorized biography. It's basically a book and leaves out

0:33:59.680 --> 0:34:04.680
<v Speaker 1>all of cancellable things that Turks sometimes he said slurs

0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:07.800
<v Speaker 1>when he was drunk and yeah, you know, grabbed women's

0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:11.799
<v Speaker 1>books with his hand with his robotic well, with the

0:34:11.520 --> 0:34:14.560
<v Speaker 1>they say that hand is decorative but that's his that's

0:34:14.560 --> 0:34:17.759
<v Speaker 1>his butt grabbing hand. Well, so this book is like

0:34:17.920 --> 0:34:21.240
<v Speaker 1>written in the form of letters to an anonymous friend,

0:34:21.400 --> 0:34:24.600
<v Speaker 1>like telling the backstory of the automaton and Campellen and

0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:27.040
<v Speaker 1>like what it does. So again, these letters aren't real.

0:34:27.120 --> 0:34:31.000
<v Speaker 1>It's like an ad camp, an epistolary ad campaign. British

0:34:31.040 --> 0:34:35.000
<v Speaker 1>newspapers are writing articles about people being gullible. This is

0:34:35.040 --> 0:34:38.160
<v Speaker 1>also one of those things where I think, with historical

0:34:38.200 --> 0:34:41.040
<v Speaker 1>hopeses were tempted to be like, oh, people were so dumb.

0:34:41.040 --> 0:34:43.560
<v Speaker 1>At the time, people thought that like robots could play chess.

0:34:44.000 --> 0:34:48.600
<v Speaker 1>A yes, some people did, because this.

0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Isn't one of the ones where I think people were dumb.

0:34:51.440 --> 0:34:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, first I want to say people did not know

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:59.120
<v Speaker 1>what automatons were capable of, and actually robots can play chess.

0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:01.960
<v Speaker 1>Now people figured out robots can't play chess, so I'm

0:35:02.000 --> 0:35:04.160
<v Speaker 1>just going to say that. But even at the time,

0:35:04.200 --> 0:35:06.799
<v Speaker 1>people were like, I know it's a magic trick, but

0:35:06.880 --> 0:35:10.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how it works. Yes, so most pretty

0:35:10.640 --> 0:35:13.000
<v Speaker 1>much everyone kind of was just like, I don't know.

0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:13.560
<v Speaker 2>How it works.

0:35:14.080 --> 0:35:16.839
<v Speaker 1>The newspapers also at this point are referencing the fact

0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:20.000
<v Speaker 1>that the machine had beaten mister Philidor in Paris, which

0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:24.000
<v Speaker 1>is how rumors get started because he didn't oh see.

0:35:24.360 --> 0:35:27.960
<v Speaker 2>And sometimes newspaper writers get things right. Sometimes the newspaper

0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:30.560
<v Speaker 2>writers get things wrong. It's also so interesting that it's

0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:34.160
<v Speaker 2>like the fact that they're making it play chess. It's like,

0:35:35.040 --> 0:35:38.480
<v Speaker 2>somehow somewhere someone smart is involved in this. Yeah you

0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:41.399
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean. It's like, okay, even if you're

0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:45.480
<v Speaker 2>a snotty snot and you're looking at this and you're going, Okay,

0:35:45.560 --> 0:35:47.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how this works, but I know that

0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:51.200
<v Speaker 2>everyone falling for it is freaking stupid because there's I

0:35:51.200 --> 0:35:54.239
<v Speaker 2>haven't figured it out yet, but like there's got to

0:35:54.320 --> 0:35:58.800
<v Speaker 2>be really easy explanation because automatons can't play chess. And

0:35:58.840 --> 0:36:04.520
<v Speaker 2>it's like, well, somewhere someone involved in this mechanical turk

0:36:04.600 --> 0:36:08.400
<v Speaker 2>project is freaking smart because they're good at chess. And

0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:11.520
<v Speaker 2>if I know one thing, it's the chess is the

0:36:11.520 --> 0:36:13.399
<v Speaker 2>smart people game. Yeah, you're good at.

0:36:13.360 --> 0:36:15.600
<v Speaker 1>Chess, shorthand for being smart.

0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Which I actually don't think is necessarily true, but that's

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:20.160
<v Speaker 2>like the cultural understanding.

0:36:20.520 --> 0:36:23.439
<v Speaker 1>So in England, there's this guy named Philip Thickness who

0:36:23.440 --> 0:36:25.880
<v Speaker 1>writes an entire book called The Speaking Figure and the

0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Automaton Chess Player basically with his explanation for the hoax

0:36:30.560 --> 0:36:33.240
<v Speaker 1>and his explanation, well, first, he starts off by saying,

0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:35.759
<v Speaker 1>it's impossible for machine to play chess. Okay, so we

0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:37.560
<v Speaker 1>know it's impossible for machine to play chess.

0:36:37.960 --> 0:36:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Ergo is a hoax. I'm gonna figure out how it works.

0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:43.720
<v Speaker 1>And his theory is that there is a child quote

0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:48.320
<v Speaker 1>of ten, twelve or fourteen in the machine concealed inside

0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:51.200
<v Speaker 1>the wooden base, using a mirror to look back at

0:36:51.239 --> 0:36:53.719
<v Speaker 1>the reflected image of the game and move the arm.

0:36:54.360 --> 0:36:57.080
<v Speaker 1>He is pointing out that like usually you can only

0:36:57.120 --> 0:37:00.040
<v Speaker 1>see the turk between one and two pm, like the

0:37:00.160 --> 0:37:03.799
<v Speaker 1>display hours, because a kid inside wouldn't want a longer confinement,

0:37:04.120 --> 0:37:05.960
<v Speaker 1>and if it's just a robot, like why wouldn't you

0:37:06.040 --> 0:37:06.480
<v Speaker 1>want it to.

0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:07.640
<v Speaker 2>Work more hours?

0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:10.239
<v Speaker 1>And he also says like there could be room for

0:37:10.280 --> 0:37:13.640
<v Speaker 1>the child to like go up into the turk automaton,

0:37:13.719 --> 0:37:16.279
<v Speaker 1>Like there's not really room in the cabinet, but it

0:37:16.320 --> 0:37:18.799
<v Speaker 1>could like kind of go into the figure and then

0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:22.000
<v Speaker 1>see through. Also, you know other theories see through sort

0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:26.120
<v Speaker 1>of its robes, like its closer like semi transparent so

0:37:26.160 --> 0:37:29.400
<v Speaker 1>there are theories. I will say there are some people

0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:32.279
<v Speaker 1>who see it who are like, I don't know if

0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:34.759
<v Speaker 1>this is real or not, but like I feel very

0:37:34.800 --> 0:37:38.960
<v Speaker 1>inspired by like what the technology could be capable of.

0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:42.880
<v Speaker 1>This man Edmund Kurtwright sees the Turk is so inspired

0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:47.479
<v Speaker 1>that he's like, we could make an automated loom. Yeah,

0:37:47.520 --> 0:37:49.680
<v Speaker 1>He's like, if a machine can play chess, a machine

0:37:49.680 --> 0:37:54.280
<v Speaker 1>can weave, and he makes an automatic loom. He patents

0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:57.000
<v Speaker 1>the power loom three years later, I mean, which like

0:37:57.560 --> 0:38:00.880
<v Speaker 1>really does a lot for the industrial over Let's go.

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:04.239
<v Speaker 1>So it's like this fake technology, even the people who

0:38:04.360 --> 0:38:08.040
<v Speaker 1>believe it feel like machines are capable of more things

0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:09.719
<v Speaker 1>that then they actually are capable of.

0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:10.680
<v Speaker 2>That's cool.

0:38:10.800 --> 0:38:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So Kemberlin spend's a year in London then carries

0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:17.520
<v Speaker 1>on around this time. While he's doing these sort of

0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:20.920
<v Speaker 1>public displays, he kind of starts another technique, which is

0:38:21.000 --> 0:38:24.840
<v Speaker 1>like a second chess board, which is the so like,

0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:27.560
<v Speaker 1>if I'm the figure playing chess, he'll set up like

0:38:27.600 --> 0:38:31.399
<v Speaker 1>a chessboard next to the machine that the player will

0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:34.240
<v Speaker 1>be at, so like the audience can see both people

0:38:34.280 --> 0:38:36.760
<v Speaker 1>facing out and they'll just be like a little string

0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:39.920
<v Speaker 1>in between, and he'll be the go between. So like

0:38:40.040 --> 0:38:42.400
<v Speaker 1>you'll move your piece and then he'll move the piece

0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:45.279
<v Speaker 1>on the turk chess board, and then the Turk will

0:38:45.280 --> 0:38:47.680
<v Speaker 1>move his piece, and then Campellen will move the piece

0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:48.759
<v Speaker 1>on your chess board.

0:38:48.840 --> 0:38:49.600
<v Speaker 2>Does that make sense?

0:38:49.760 --> 0:38:49.840
<v Speaker 4>No?

0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Hold on?

0:38:51.480 --> 0:38:55.640
<v Speaker 1>What would like imagine just a stage? I guess not stage,

0:38:55.640 --> 0:38:57.880
<v Speaker 1>more like a little room. But now there's two people

0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:00.440
<v Speaker 1>sitting next to each other side.

0:39:00.600 --> 0:39:01.920
<v Speaker 2>So we're playing one game.

0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:04.760
<v Speaker 1>We're playing one game. He's just being the go between

0:39:04.960 --> 0:39:07.040
<v Speaker 1>to like move the pieces on each store.

0:39:07.600 --> 0:39:10.239
<v Speaker 2>The audience can see better. Yeah, so the audience can

0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:10.719
<v Speaker 2>see better.

0:39:10.760 --> 0:39:14.359
<v Speaker 1>And also because the machine works better if this if

0:39:14.400 --> 0:39:17.400
<v Speaker 1>the pieces are exactly in the middle. Okay, so he

0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:20.279
<v Speaker 1>can like make sure the pieces go exactly in the middle.

0:39:20.000 --> 0:39:20.680
<v Speaker 2>Of the squares.

0:39:21.880 --> 0:39:25.319
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So like that kind of happens. There's this guy

0:39:25.440 --> 0:39:29.400
<v Speaker 1>around this time. It's like traveling through European cities. It

0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:33.359
<v Speaker 1>goes to Leipzig, goes to Dresden. Around Dresden, this man,

0:39:33.480 --> 0:39:36.799
<v Speaker 1>Josef von Recknitz, sees the Turk and becomes like a little.

0:39:36.520 --> 0:39:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Obsessed with how it works.

0:39:38.719 --> 0:39:41.080
<v Speaker 1>He's like, I'm going to figure it out, and he

0:39:42.280 --> 0:39:45.120
<v Speaker 1>builds like models, trying to figure it out, and in

0:39:45.160 --> 0:39:48.760
<v Speaker 1>seventeen eighty nine comes up with this like full book

0:39:48.840 --> 0:39:51.879
<v Speaker 1>with illustrations about how he thinks it works. So I'm

0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:55.960
<v Speaker 1>going to show you his little illustration. This is his

0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:58.200
<v Speaker 1>little illustration of how he thinks it works.

0:39:59.440 --> 0:40:01.480
<v Speaker 2>There's a little man in a little box.

0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:05.399
<v Speaker 1>It's like a little man in the box sitting sitting up,

0:40:06.040 --> 0:40:10.280
<v Speaker 1>and he basically says, the drawer that like bottom drawer

0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:14.239
<v Speaker 1>that pulls out doesn't go all the way to the back.

0:40:14.280 --> 0:40:16.640
<v Speaker 2>Right, so you could like sit with basically your feet

0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:19.120
<v Speaker 2>in the drawer or like your bottom, like you could

0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:20.200
<v Speaker 2>like your butt behind.

0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:22.600
<v Speaker 1>No, it would be even like behind the drawer, Like

0:40:22.680 --> 0:40:26.240
<v Speaker 1>the drawer is like a filtball drawer. So you're sitting

0:40:26.280 --> 0:40:29.000
<v Speaker 1>like kind of in the narrow space behind a where

0:40:29.080 --> 0:40:30.040
<v Speaker 1>drawer ends.

0:40:30.520 --> 0:40:36.000
<v Speaker 2>And then you just sit there and you play the chess.

0:40:36.120 --> 0:40:39.520
<v Speaker 1>And like move the arm. The problem with this, it's

0:40:39.560 --> 0:40:42.360
<v Speaker 1>like a good theory. The problem with it is his

0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:44.480
<v Speaker 1>model is not proportional.

0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:47.000
<v Speaker 2>The man is just so small.

0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:50.600
<v Speaker 1>The man is small. It does not actually work like

0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:52.200
<v Speaker 1>the way he drew it.

0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Like the man would be like four feet tall.

0:40:54.000 --> 0:40:57.879
<v Speaker 1>And it's it's not He is literally asking a man

0:40:57.920 --> 0:41:01.880
<v Speaker 1>to fit into a space five feet long, seven inches

0:41:02.000 --> 0:41:05.680
<v Speaker 1>high and eighteen inches wide, So like a person could

0:41:05.760 --> 0:41:08.640
<v Speaker 1>not fit in that small a space. Nope, So like

0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:10.560
<v Speaker 1>people are trying to figure it out, but no one

0:41:11.040 --> 0:41:14.680
<v Speaker 1>is getting the right answer yet. Compellen returns to Vienna

0:41:14.760 --> 0:41:17.560
<v Speaker 1>and like probably keeps the machine dormant. We don't know

0:41:17.719 --> 0:41:20.040
<v Speaker 1>for sure, but it's probably just like hanging out for

0:41:20.120 --> 0:41:22.919
<v Speaker 1>twenty years and he finally gets to put the Turk

0:41:22.960 --> 0:41:26.200
<v Speaker 1>behind him, working as a civil servant, an inventor. He

0:41:26.239 --> 0:41:30.640
<v Speaker 1>writes some plays, makes engravings, works on his speaking machine,

0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:33.640
<v Speaker 1>which is his big passion, and like friends kind of

0:41:33.680 --> 0:41:34.719
<v Speaker 1>know not to ask him.

0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:35.200
<v Speaker 2>About the Turk.

0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:39.560
<v Speaker 1>There are like a lot of rumors at this point

0:41:39.680 --> 0:41:43.320
<v Speaker 1>that like Compellen had this interaction with Frederick the Second

0:41:43.400 --> 0:41:46.000
<v Speaker 1>of Prussia who like insisted on knowing the secret and

0:41:46.040 --> 0:41:48.560
<v Speaker 1>then bought it to like know the secret, were like

0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:51.640
<v Speaker 1>that he played Catherine the Great, but like it didn't.

0:41:52.640 --> 0:41:54.600
<v Speaker 1>So if you ever see like an account of the

0:41:54.640 --> 0:41:57.279
<v Speaker 1>mechanical Turk playing Catherine the Great, you know someone.

0:41:57.080 --> 0:42:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Is full of shit. Interesting. So Campellen dies age seventy

0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:06.320
<v Speaker 2>March twenty sixth, eighteen oh four, and his son sells

0:42:06.320 --> 0:42:10.480
<v Speaker 2>the mechanical turk to this man named Johann Matel, and

0:42:10.520 --> 0:42:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Matel is a Bavarian musician that is interested in music machines.

0:42:15.800 --> 0:42:17.120
<v Speaker 2>He's also very.

0:42:18.600 --> 0:42:22.120
<v Speaker 1>Like a good builder and engineer. He made this instrument

0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:25.080
<v Speaker 1>I don't I guess you call it an instrument half

0:42:25.080 --> 0:42:29.239
<v Speaker 1>an instrument half an automaton called the pan Harmonicon that

0:42:29.320 --> 0:42:31.840
<v Speaker 1>makes the sound of an entire orchestra. And it's basically

0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:34.080
<v Speaker 1>just like a big box like six feet wide, six

0:42:34.120 --> 0:42:37.439
<v Speaker 1>feet deep that plays music the way a whole orchestra does.

0:42:37.800 --> 0:42:40.680
<v Speaker 1>And he's actually friends with Beethoven who composed this like

0:42:41.160 --> 0:42:44.880
<v Speaker 1>song Wellington's victory for it like great. He makes a

0:42:44.960 --> 0:42:48.319
<v Speaker 1>mechanical trumpet player that can be programmed to play many

0:42:48.400 --> 0:42:49.240
<v Speaker 1>different songs.

0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:52.359
<v Speaker 2>Cool. He also made this like his sort of.

0:42:52.320 --> 0:42:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Piece to player piano works. I don't know how player

0:42:54.880 --> 0:42:59.880
<v Speaker 1>piano works. He also makes this mechanical recreation of the

0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:04.000
<v Speaker 1>burning down of Moscow when Napoleon got there. So if

0:43:04.000 --> 0:43:07.279
<v Speaker 1>you're familiar with why would you want that? Well, if

0:43:07.280 --> 0:43:11.240
<v Speaker 1>you're familiar with the Woking Phoenix film Napoleon, I haven't

0:43:11.239 --> 0:43:14.840
<v Speaker 1>seen it well, or history When Napoleon got to Moscow

0:43:14.920 --> 0:43:17.120
<v Speaker 1>Russian people burned it down rather than let him take

0:43:17.160 --> 0:43:17.560
<v Speaker 1>the city.

0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:21.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh so it's like it's like an anti Okay, I

0:43:21.320 --> 0:43:23.560
<v Speaker 2>a little bit get why you would want a mechanical recreation.

0:43:23.640 --> 0:43:26.200
<v Speaker 1>It's like a fun if you're anti Napoleon, which like

0:43:26.520 --> 0:43:30.600
<v Speaker 1>the rest of Europe is, it's a fun anti Napoleon

0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:31.400
<v Speaker 1>little art piece.

0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:43:32.719 --> 0:43:37.040
<v Speaker 1>But this metal guy's also like a bit of a plagiarist.

0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Like I mentioned, he was friends with Beethoven. He got

0:43:40.239 --> 0:43:42.320
<v Speaker 1>him to write this piece for his mechanical orchestra, but

0:43:42.400 --> 0:43:44.920
<v Speaker 1>then they got in beef because he didn't put Beethoven's

0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:47.799
<v Speaker 1>name on the poster, because he's like, I bought the.

0:43:47.560 --> 0:43:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Song from you. You can't do that, bro.

0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:52.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Beethoven was mad. And then also this one's like

0:43:52.600 --> 0:43:57.719
<v Speaker 1>a pretty egregious example. He invented a rudimentary metronome, and

0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:00.480
<v Speaker 1>then he was traveling around and goes to Amster and

0:44:00.520 --> 0:44:03.000
<v Speaker 1>like meets this inventor. He's like, hey, you're working on

0:44:03.040 --> 0:44:05.279
<v Speaker 1>a metronome. I came up with my own metronome and

0:44:05.280 --> 0:44:07.960
<v Speaker 1>it was like kind of the way you imagine a metronome.

0:44:08.239 --> 0:44:11.239
<v Speaker 1>And Mitchell's like, oh shit, that's better. Yeah, and he

0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:13.920
<v Speaker 1>immediately just bounced. He was like, well, first, can I

0:44:13.920 --> 0:44:15.719
<v Speaker 1>buy it? And the guy was like no, and he's

0:44:15.760 --> 0:44:18.640
<v Speaker 1>like okay, fine, and he leaves and goes to Paris

0:44:18.760 --> 0:44:21.160
<v Speaker 1>and just applies for a patent and pass it off

0:44:21.160 --> 0:44:24.359
<v Speaker 1>as his own and calls it Matel's metronome. And he will,

0:44:24.400 --> 0:44:26.880
<v Speaker 1>at various points in this story claim to have built

0:44:26.920 --> 0:44:34.440
<v Speaker 1>the chess player himself in slightly slightly in his defense,

0:44:34.560 --> 0:44:36.760
<v Speaker 1>it had been out of commission for twenty five years

0:44:37.120 --> 0:44:38.799
<v Speaker 1>so and he like made some modifulations.

0:44:38.840 --> 0:44:40.319
<v Speaker 2>Finders keepers is not a thing.

0:44:40.400 --> 0:44:42.840
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm saying, like he did like put it back together.

0:44:42.960 --> 0:44:45.000
<v Speaker 1>But also you know, since it hadn't really been played

0:44:45.040 --> 0:44:46.799
<v Speaker 1>in like a quarter of a century, like not a

0:44:46.800 --> 0:44:50.359
<v Speaker 1>lot of people like remember or no made it. So

0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:54.800
<v Speaker 1>he yeah, he's let's just he's like a he's a showman. Yeah,

0:44:55.120 --> 0:44:56.440
<v Speaker 1>dare I say the greatest showman.

0:44:56.760 --> 0:44:59.960
<v Speaker 2>He's a Burnamish, a Burnamish figure. Take a shot if

0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:02.920
<v Speaker 2>we uh mentioned Pete Barnum on this pod. Yeah, true.

0:45:03.160 --> 0:45:06.440
<v Speaker 1>This is it's while the mechanical Turk is under the

0:45:06.480 --> 0:45:11.040
<v Speaker 1>custodianship of Matel, that it will meet its most famous opponent.

0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:13.640
<v Speaker 1>It's gonna meet a little man by the name of

0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:15.160
<v Speaker 1>Napoleon Bonaparte.

0:45:15.880 --> 0:45:18.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so yeah, so it turns out, you know, right,

0:45:18.640 --> 0:45:21.479
<v Speaker 2>we were pretty anti Napoleon, but then she's gonna march

0:45:21.480 --> 0:45:23.839
<v Speaker 2>on Europe and you're gonna want to make good with him. Uh.

0:45:24.080 --> 0:45:26.239
<v Speaker 1>Mazel sets up the Turk in the apartments of one

0:45:26.280 --> 0:45:29.560
<v Speaker 1>of Napoleon's generals in eighteen oh nine, and so a

0:45:29.600 --> 0:45:32.440
<v Speaker 1>lot of this account, this is a very like famous account.

0:45:32.800 --> 0:45:35.240
<v Speaker 1>It comes from Napoleon's valet.

0:45:35.400 --> 0:45:39.399
<v Speaker 2>Sorry jumping ahead. Does mates almost know how it works? Yeah?

0:45:39.480 --> 0:45:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Mason figures out how it works. He So the son

0:45:42.160 --> 0:45:44.680
<v Speaker 2>didn't tell him he figured it out either.

0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:46.640
<v Speaker 1>The son told him. But if you have it in

0:45:46.680 --> 0:45:48.080
<v Speaker 1>front of you.

0:45:47.560 --> 0:45:49.440
<v Speaker 2>You'll the secret is in the box. Yeah, you can

0:45:49.440 --> 0:45:52.080
<v Speaker 2>figure out it. Okay, Okay. So he's using the same

0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:55.560
<v Speaker 2>method that the original inventor used, Yes, exactly, know how.

0:45:56.040 --> 0:45:59.080
<v Speaker 2>So he's working it the way that it works, plus

0:45:59.080 --> 0:46:04.399
<v Speaker 2>some modification and going around Europe, going around Europe, going

0:46:04.440 --> 0:46:07.000
<v Speaker 2>to do its most famous game. And now he's going

0:46:07.040 --> 0:46:11.200
<v Speaker 2>to Napoleon. Most of this account we're taking the history

0:46:11.239 --> 0:46:14.319
<v Speaker 2>of this from Napoleon's valet, who went by Constant, who

0:46:14.320 --> 0:46:18.040
<v Speaker 2>published his memoirs in eighteen thirty. There are a lot

0:46:18.200 --> 0:46:21.799
<v Speaker 2>of other accounts of Napoleon with the Turk, because you know,

0:46:21.840 --> 0:46:24.840
<v Speaker 2>it's like kind of the most famous and romantic episode

0:46:24.840 --> 0:46:26.840
<v Speaker 2>in the Turk's history, So just like bear that in

0:46:26.920 --> 0:46:29.920
<v Speaker 2>mind that but a lot of them come from this

0:46:30.120 --> 0:46:32.520
<v Speaker 2>main account that I am going to take as the

0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:34.840
<v Speaker 2>most historically accurate because it's someone who is actually the

0:46:34.880 --> 0:46:38.800
<v Speaker 2>most primary source. Basically, Napoleon sits across from the Turk,

0:46:39.080 --> 0:46:42.759
<v Speaker 2>the Turk salutes, Napoleon makes a few moves, and then

0:46:42.840 --> 0:46:45.319
<v Speaker 2>like kind of trying to trick it, makes an intentionally

0:46:45.480 --> 0:46:48.719
<v Speaker 2>false move to test the automaton to be like, what

0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:50.239
<v Speaker 2>are you going to do if I me? And for

0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:53.480
<v Speaker 2>Napoleon like tries to cheat, and the automaton shakes his

0:46:53.560 --> 0:46:55.719
<v Speaker 2>head and puts the piece back where it's supposed to be,

0:46:56.120 --> 0:46:58.759
<v Speaker 2>and then Napoleon cheats again, and then a third time,

0:46:59.080 --> 0:47:01.279
<v Speaker 2>and then the Turk shakes his head and sweeps all

0:47:01.280 --> 0:47:03.799
<v Speaker 2>the pieces off the board, and he's like, that's it.

0:47:04.680 --> 0:47:06.839
<v Speaker 2>I love that, because why wouldn't a tom and Tom

0:47:06.880 --> 0:47:08.839
<v Speaker 2>be scared of Napoleon. He's not, He's already to give

0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:09.080
<v Speaker 2>a shit.

0:47:09.200 --> 0:47:12.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So another version of this story will say like

0:47:12.400 --> 0:47:15.680
<v Speaker 1>Matel had Napoleon sitting at the second chess board, and

0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:18.120
<v Speaker 1>then like we'll be like a Napoleon tried to cross

0:47:18.160 --> 0:47:22.279
<v Speaker 1>the roped off area and Matel stopped him. Another it's

0:47:22.320 --> 0:47:24.720
<v Speaker 1>better if they're facing each other, yeah, And like another

0:47:24.880 --> 0:47:27.760
<v Speaker 1>account will say that, like you know, when they were

0:47:28.120 --> 0:47:30.200
<v Speaker 1>at when he tried to put him at the second chessboard,

0:47:30.280 --> 0:47:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Napoleon said, ah, I will only fight him face to face.

0:47:33.600 --> 0:47:35.520
<v Speaker 1>And then like they played at the same chess board.

0:47:35.520 --> 0:47:38.040
<v Speaker 1>But it's like that's a good story, but like probably not,

0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:39.160
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't.

0:47:39.320 --> 0:47:41.560
<v Speaker 2>It's really hard for me to picture Napoleon being like

0:47:41.960 --> 0:47:45.400
<v Speaker 2>at a different chess board, Like it's like so emasculating

0:47:45.480 --> 0:47:48.440
<v Speaker 2>to be at, like this is your chess board, and

0:47:48.480 --> 0:47:49.800
<v Speaker 2>this is your chess board.

0:47:50.120 --> 0:47:53.320
<v Speaker 1>And then they also say like a you know, Napoleon

0:47:53.360 --> 0:47:56.800
<v Speaker 1>thought that the person inside the operator would be looking

0:47:56.840 --> 0:47:59.400
<v Speaker 1>out through the Turk's clothing, so he like tied a

0:47:59.480 --> 0:48:02.680
<v Speaker 1>shawl round his body. And again I think that like

0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:06.040
<v Speaker 1>because spoiler alert, it wasn't it's not a guy sitting

0:48:06.040 --> 0:48:07.600
<v Speaker 1>in there, so like if you did tie a shawl

0:48:07.600 --> 0:48:11.160
<v Speaker 1>around the body, it wouldn't wouldn't make a difference. So

0:48:11.200 --> 0:48:14.960
<v Speaker 1>I think sometimes these like later stories are like meant

0:48:14.960 --> 0:48:18.919
<v Speaker 1>to show like the trickery involved, but like that's there's

0:48:18.960 --> 0:48:20.360
<v Speaker 1>no actual historical record of that.

0:48:20.600 --> 0:48:20.880
<v Speaker 4>Okay.

0:48:21.840 --> 0:48:25.600
<v Speaker 1>There's also later in like eighteen forty four, so again

0:48:25.640 --> 0:48:28.600
<v Speaker 1>this is like years later there'll be a London news

0:48:28.719 --> 0:48:32.319
<v Speaker 1>chess column that claims that they actually did play the

0:48:32.320 --> 0:48:35.759
<v Speaker 1>full game, which lasted nineteen moves, and they reproduce all

0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:40.080
<v Speaker 1>of the moves, but like they don't have any evidence

0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:40.600
<v Speaker 1>that those.

0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:41.040
<v Speaker 2>Are the moves.

0:48:41.160 --> 0:48:43.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it also doesn't really make sense because it

0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:45.920
<v Speaker 1>like has both of them playing very badly.

0:48:46.880 --> 0:48:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Okay, I feel like if somebody were there recording

0:48:49.960 --> 0:48:53.360
<v Speaker 2>the moves, like we would like that would be in

0:48:53.400 --> 0:48:53.960
<v Speaker 2>a museum.

0:48:54.120 --> 0:48:57.200
<v Speaker 1>If someone had recorded the moves. It feels unlikely that

0:48:57.280 --> 0:49:00.160
<v Speaker 1>the first account of that would be a lunch did

0:49:00.160 --> 0:49:04.040
<v Speaker 1>in news column in eighteen forty four. But at a

0:49:04.080 --> 0:49:09.000
<v Speaker 1>certain point, napoleon stepson enters the chat. Okay, he is

0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:11.000
<v Speaker 1>mayor famously married to a woman named Josephine.

0:49:11.000 --> 0:49:12.239
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know he had a step son.

0:49:12.360 --> 0:49:15.640
<v Speaker 1>Josephine had kids from a first marriage, who's her husband

0:49:15.760 --> 0:49:20.840
<v Speaker 1>incidentally guillotine by Napoleon No, okay, by the French Revolution,

0:49:22.800 --> 0:49:24.239
<v Speaker 1>but not her, not.

0:49:24.280 --> 0:49:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Her, because she was just a lady. In theory.

0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:29.319
<v Speaker 1>She was like almost she was like in line to

0:49:29.320 --> 0:49:31.719
<v Speaker 1>be guillotine. The luckily the French Revolution like ran out

0:49:31.719 --> 0:49:37.200
<v Speaker 1>of Steene before that. History history is weird. The steps

0:49:37.280 --> 0:49:40.840
<v Speaker 1>On purchases the Turk sometime between eighteen oh nine and

0:49:41.040 --> 0:49:44.720
<v Speaker 1>eighteen twelve. He loved chess. He wants to know the secret.

0:49:44.320 --> 0:49:47.080
<v Speaker 2>And he's like, this is that machine that annoyed my stepdad.

0:49:47.960 --> 0:49:50.080
<v Speaker 2>Did Napoleon get along with his steps On?

0:49:50.200 --> 0:49:50.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no they were.

0:49:50.880 --> 0:49:51.640
<v Speaker 2>They were good friends.

0:49:52.040 --> 0:49:55.880
<v Speaker 1>No, they not good friends. They heavily a lot of

0:49:55.960 --> 0:49:58.080
<v Speaker 1>mutrable respect. They were allies.

0:49:58.640 --> 0:50:01.360
<v Speaker 2>This is such an interest question to asking an episode

0:50:01.360 --> 0:50:04.120
<v Speaker 2>about chess. Did Napoleon get along with the steps He did?

0:50:04.440 --> 0:50:07.839
<v Speaker 2>All right, fantastic? Okay, So he loves chess. He wants

0:50:07.880 --> 0:50:08.640
<v Speaker 2>to know the secret.

0:50:08.719 --> 0:50:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Ye, matel says that he'll only tell you this, tell

0:50:11.160 --> 0:50:12.640
<v Speaker 1>you the secret if you buy it.

0:50:12.840 --> 0:50:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Ye. Eugene offers to buy it.

0:50:15.520 --> 0:50:19.520
<v Speaker 1>His name is Eugene, Eugen. I don't know how to

0:50:19.560 --> 0:50:20.520
<v Speaker 1>ta it in a French way.

0:50:20.600 --> 0:50:22.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay. He offers to buy it.

0:50:22.600 --> 0:50:25.120
<v Speaker 1>He pays thirty thousand francs for it, which is three

0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:28.160
<v Speaker 1>times what Mattel had paid, and so at this time,

0:50:28.440 --> 0:50:31.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, Eugene is off with Now he owns the

0:50:31.239 --> 0:50:34.800
<v Speaker 1>chess robot. Matel is busy working on a new panharmonicon

0:50:35.239 --> 0:50:39.160
<v Speaker 1>and the mechanical new you know, his fancy mechanical display

0:50:39.200 --> 0:50:43.120
<v Speaker 1>of the Conflagration of Moscow. Around this time, Napoleon is

0:50:43.160 --> 0:50:46.719
<v Speaker 1>defeated by Wellington. We're going to fast forward again to

0:50:46.880 --> 0:50:48.879
<v Speaker 1>eighteen fifteen, four years later.

0:50:49.000 --> 0:50:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm just saying it all ties back, because where was

0:50:52.600 --> 0:50:56.719
<v Speaker 2>Napoleon defeated Waterlin Abbas breakout.

0:50:56.440 --> 0:50:59.440
<v Speaker 1>Hit Abbas bright chess chess.

0:51:00.160 --> 0:51:01.280
<v Speaker 2>It all comes back.

0:51:02.239 --> 0:51:04.560
<v Speaker 1>So again I'm like fast forwarding through a lot of history.

0:51:04.560 --> 0:51:07.520
<v Speaker 1>But basically Eugene has this robot for four years. MATEL

0:51:07.600 --> 0:51:10.000
<v Speaker 1>comes back now that He's like, I have my pan Harmonicon,

0:51:10.040 --> 0:51:12.520
<v Speaker 1>I have my Conflagration of Moscow. I want my chess

0:51:12.520 --> 0:51:16.120
<v Speaker 1>player back for my little museum. He tries to buy

0:51:16.160 --> 0:51:18.440
<v Speaker 1>it back. Eugene is like, well, I'm not going to

0:51:18.480 --> 0:51:20.719
<v Speaker 1>sell it for less than thirty thousand francs, which is

0:51:20.719 --> 0:51:23.680
<v Speaker 1>what that makes sense. MATEL cannot afford that. There's a

0:51:23.719 --> 0:51:26.880
<v Speaker 1>few different accounts. Maytel is like bad with money, but

0:51:26.960 --> 0:51:30.960
<v Speaker 1>the likeliest sort of outcome here is that he like

0:51:31.040 --> 0:51:33.280
<v Speaker 1>kind of agrees to like a buy now, pay later,

0:51:33.560 --> 0:51:36.520
<v Speaker 1>like in tries to Klarna. Yeah, he Klarina is the

0:51:36.560 --> 0:51:38.040
<v Speaker 1>mechanical chest robot.

0:51:38.080 --> 0:51:41.200
<v Speaker 2>I do understand the principle of don't sell something for

0:51:41.320 --> 0:51:43.640
<v Speaker 2>less than you paid for it. That makes sense to me.

0:51:44.280 --> 0:51:48.560
<v Speaker 1>So Meltel goes back on tour. He goes to London.

0:51:48.880 --> 0:51:51.880
<v Speaker 1>He puts this mechanical turk on display with his trumpeter

0:51:51.960 --> 0:51:56.040
<v Speaker 1>and some other attractions. Crowds are really great by this point.

0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:59.959
<v Speaker 1>It's like a speaking robot. It'll say check and later

0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:02.040
<v Speaker 1>when it tours in France, they'll say, like a check

0:52:02.080 --> 0:52:05.520
<v Speaker 1>in French, and then they say that. From that point on,

0:52:06.600 --> 0:52:09.120
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't do He does mostly the same like little

0:52:09.160 --> 0:52:13.759
<v Speaker 1>show of like opening cabinets in the same order that Kempellendad,

0:52:14.280 --> 0:52:17.320
<v Speaker 1>except he won't like use the wooden.

0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Cask that he was holding walk around with.

0:52:18.840 --> 0:52:20.520
<v Speaker 1>He doesn't walk around the box because he's like, people

0:52:20.560 --> 0:52:22.240
<v Speaker 1>aren't that superstitious anymore.

0:52:22.280 --> 0:52:25.800
<v Speaker 2>The box is like spoiler alert misdirection, Oh okay, and

0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:27.720
<v Speaker 2>so he's like, oh, I'm not going to do that, okay,

0:52:28.160 --> 0:52:32.279
<v Speaker 2>but you know, it's it's a big hit. People love it.

0:52:32.600 --> 0:52:34.200
<v Speaker 1>Crowds are so great he has to like keep it

0:52:34.239 --> 0:52:38.439
<v Speaker 1>open every single day. So up until this point, the

0:52:38.560 --> 0:52:41.920
<v Speaker 1>chess player the mechanical turk always went first because his

0:52:42.000 --> 0:52:44.319
<v Speaker 1>side of the board is white. At this point, to

0:52:44.440 --> 0:52:48.240
<v Speaker 1>like make it jazzier and more impressive, mental will let

0:52:48.280 --> 0:52:51.840
<v Speaker 1>the opponent go first using black, which is like not traditional,

0:52:52.120 --> 0:52:54.680
<v Speaker 1>and he will also have the mechanical turk be down

0:52:54.960 --> 0:52:57.040
<v Speaker 1>upon as like a little handicap.

0:52:57.480 --> 0:53:00.520
<v Speaker 2>He'll like upon I thought you said like a pawn,

0:53:00.600 --> 0:53:03.440
<v Speaker 2>like once upon a time, Like he is down upon.

0:53:04.560 --> 0:53:08.759
<v Speaker 1>What down a pawn chess piece does he is he

0:53:08.880 --> 0:53:12.960
<v Speaker 1>losing more? Not really so he's like quote giving odds

0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:17.359
<v Speaker 1>of pawn and move, and over three hundred games of

0:53:17.400 --> 0:53:19.000
<v Speaker 1>this he loses about six.

0:53:19.920 --> 0:53:21.439
<v Speaker 2>Thought's really good, Oh, really good.

0:53:21.800 --> 0:53:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Although I will say, like for me, like you have

0:53:25.040 --> 0:53:27.520
<v Speaker 1>a chess playing robot in theory, that's what you're saying

0:53:27.600 --> 0:53:30.000
<v Speaker 1>you have. Why do you need to like make it

0:53:30.280 --> 0:53:33.360
<v Speaker 1>harder for you to like, I guess to me, I'm like,

0:53:33.400 --> 0:53:36.120
<v Speaker 1>what's impressive. Isn't that it's good at chess. It's impressive

0:53:36.160 --> 0:53:40.080
<v Speaker 1>that it's like playing at all, Like you're purporting to

0:53:40.120 --> 0:53:42.319
<v Speaker 1>have made a chess playing robot. Why do you need

0:53:42.360 --> 0:53:44.200
<v Speaker 1>to like be like and I can win with less

0:53:44.239 --> 0:53:47.279
<v Speaker 1>one less pawn. Does that make it more impressive to you?

0:53:48.120 --> 0:53:50.800
<v Speaker 2>I think it makes it like fresh?

0:53:50.560 --> 0:53:50.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:53:50.840 --> 0:53:53.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, like if you're like, if you've lived in a

0:53:53.160 --> 0:53:56.279
<v Speaker 2>world where we already accept that there's a chess playing robot.

0:53:56.520 --> 0:53:58.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah that's fair. And I mean again, people at this

0:53:58.880 --> 0:54:02.600
<v Speaker 1>point are writing. This man Robert Willis writes this.

0:54:02.600 --> 0:54:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Pain like if you taught a dog to sing like

0:54:04.520 --> 0:54:07.920
<v Speaker 2>you want it to sing. Well, yeah, that's true.

0:54:09.200 --> 0:54:12.280
<v Speaker 1>So this man, Robert Willis writes this pamphlet in eighteen

0:54:12.320 --> 0:54:14.879
<v Speaker 1>twenty one, trying to come up with how it's done.

0:54:15.000 --> 0:54:18.239
<v Speaker 1>And his determination is like he's like, okay, first, it's

0:54:18.239 --> 0:54:22.200
<v Speaker 1>impossible for a robot to think. Quote, it cannot usurp

0:54:22.239 --> 0:54:25.479
<v Speaker 1>and exercise the faculties of mind. It cannot be made

0:54:25.600 --> 0:54:28.080
<v Speaker 1>to vary its operations so as to meet the ever

0:54:28.200 --> 0:54:30.960
<v Speaker 1>varying circumstances of a game of chess. So he's like,

0:54:31.440 --> 0:54:34.919
<v Speaker 1>I know, it's a cabinet. It's a you know, parlor trick.

0:54:36.000 --> 0:54:39.680
<v Speaker 1>His explanation is that like a player moves up into

0:54:39.680 --> 0:54:41.960
<v Speaker 1>the turk's torso and guides.

0:54:41.680 --> 0:54:43.520
<v Speaker 2>The hand like a puppet. I guess like kind of

0:54:43.520 --> 0:54:46.000
<v Speaker 2>a big bird situation. Yeah, Okay.

0:54:46.560 --> 0:54:48.520
<v Speaker 1>This guy goes on to become a professor of mathematics

0:54:48.560 --> 0:54:51.480
<v Speaker 1>at Cambridge. Smart dude, and his grandpa, incidentally, was the

0:54:51.480 --> 0:54:54.320
<v Speaker 1>one who cured George the Third's first out of madness.

0:54:54.360 --> 0:54:56.920
<v Speaker 2>I just find that interesting. Okay. So these people have

0:54:56.920 --> 0:54:58.719
<v Speaker 2>thought a lot about what the mind can and cannot do.

0:54:58.840 --> 0:55:01.799
<v Speaker 1>But you know what, someone is in London at this

0:55:01.880 --> 0:55:05.280
<v Speaker 1>time who actually thinks computers might be capable of reasoning.

0:55:05.560 --> 0:55:08.520
<v Speaker 2>Okay, and it's a man named Charles Babbage. Does that

0:55:08.880 --> 0:55:10.000
<v Speaker 2>sounds really familiar?

0:55:10.160 --> 0:55:10.440
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:55:10.520 --> 0:55:13.920
<v Speaker 1>So he sees the Turk play in March eighteen nineteen

0:55:14.000 --> 0:55:16.920
<v Speaker 1>and again the next year, and he's like very impressed

0:55:16.920 --> 0:55:20.799
<v Speaker 1>with the mechanisms of the movement. He's positive that it's

0:55:21.239 --> 0:55:24.640
<v Speaker 1>under human control. He's like, this is not actually an automaton,

0:55:25.200 --> 0:55:27.120
<v Speaker 1>but you know, and he doesn't know how. He's like,

0:55:27.160 --> 0:55:28.879
<v Speaker 1>I can't figure it out, I know, but I can.

0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:30.200
<v Speaker 1>This is a person doing it.

0:55:30.280 --> 0:55:30.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:55:30.960 --> 0:55:34.080
<v Speaker 1>But he's still like very inspired by this question of

0:55:34.160 --> 0:55:37.920
<v Speaker 1>whether a chess playing machine is possible. And Charles Babbage

0:55:37.960 --> 0:55:39.640
<v Speaker 1>is going to work on this thing called the difference

0:55:39.640 --> 0:55:43.319
<v Speaker 1>engine and then later the analytical Engine, which are precursors

0:55:43.440 --> 0:55:47.839
<v Speaker 1>to the modern computer. Yes, Like he basically figures out like, oh,

0:55:47.920 --> 0:55:55.759
<v Speaker 1>actually a computer would be capable of playing jazz. So

0:55:56.120 --> 0:55:59.399
<v Speaker 1>Mittel continues on his tour. He goes to Amsterdam, where

0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:01.680
<v Speaker 1>if you remember, there was a guy who's still mad

0:56:01.719 --> 0:56:04.439
<v Speaker 1>that he stole his metronome.

0:56:04.480 --> 0:56:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, anyone would be. He tries to get Metzal investigated

0:56:09.480 --> 0:56:12.520
<v Speaker 2>for piracy and he is basically forced to admit that

0:56:12.560 --> 0:56:15.000
<v Speaker 2>he stole the design, but then it bound is immediately

0:56:15.080 --> 0:56:19.920
<v Speaker 2>before he faces any consequences. Does another season in London,

0:56:20.280 --> 0:56:23.520
<v Speaker 2>goes to Paris, hit by another lawsuit, this time from

0:56:23.560 --> 0:56:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Eugene for failure to make payments. Yeah, no kidding, So

0:56:28.040 --> 0:56:31.120
<v Speaker 2>he tries to sell the churk Off to pay his debts.

0:56:31.480 --> 0:56:33.880
<v Speaker 2>At this point, there's no bite posses give it back

0:56:33.920 --> 0:56:34.560
<v Speaker 2>to Eugene.

0:56:34.600 --> 0:56:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Well he doesn't want to, because it's like what he's

0:56:36.560 --> 0:56:39.480
<v Speaker 1>gonna use to make money, But at this point no

0:56:39.520 --> 0:56:41.680
<v Speaker 1>one buys it, presumably because they're like, well it's not

0:56:41.719 --> 0:56:45.759
<v Speaker 1>really yours to sell. Yeah okay, yeah, but he does

0:56:47.120 --> 0:56:50.680
<v Speaker 1>what any I guess showman would do in this situation,

0:56:50.840 --> 0:56:52.400
<v Speaker 1>which is just say off to America.

0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:55.640
<v Speaker 2>Uh huh, the land of running away from your debt.

0:56:55.719 --> 0:56:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Land of running away from your debt. He lands in

0:56:57.640 --> 0:57:00.719
<v Speaker 1>New York in eighteen twenty six. Big Crowds in New

0:57:00.800 --> 0:57:05.400
<v Speaker 1>York sells out a lot of newspaper coverage. Something slightly

0:57:05.440 --> 0:57:09.680
<v Speaker 1>different is happening here. He's the chess mechanical Turk is

0:57:09.719 --> 0:57:12.839
<v Speaker 1>playing only end games, which means you sort of like

0:57:12.920 --> 0:57:16.720
<v Speaker 1>set up a puzzle, and he would let opponents pick

0:57:16.760 --> 0:57:18.439
<v Speaker 1>out of a book like which end game they would

0:57:18.480 --> 0:57:20.640
<v Speaker 1>want to play, And he would also let the opponents

0:57:20.720 --> 0:57:23.920
<v Speaker 1>pick which whether they want to be black or white,

0:57:24.280 --> 0:57:28.120
<v Speaker 1>which side they want to be and uh, but the

0:57:28.160 --> 0:57:30.880
<v Speaker 1>Turk would always start, which kind of meant that like

0:57:30.960 --> 0:57:33.320
<v Speaker 1>it would always win, right, Like if you know the

0:57:33.360 --> 0:57:35.280
<v Speaker 1>tricks of this book, Like if you know all the

0:57:35.560 --> 0:57:37.479
<v Speaker 1>end games, you kind of can like know all.

0:57:37.360 --> 0:57:41.760
<v Speaker 2>The puzzles, right, and you could program them into a computer. Yeah,

0:57:41.800 --> 0:57:42.720
<v Speaker 2>in theatery potentially.

0:57:42.960 --> 0:57:45.840
<v Speaker 1>Uh, Eugene at this point had died, but his family

0:57:45.880 --> 0:57:48.080
<v Speaker 1>representatives do follow.

0:57:48.360 --> 0:57:48.480
<v Speaker 5>Uh.

0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, these are the descendants of the step kids of Napoleon.

0:57:54.440 --> 0:57:56.040
<v Speaker 2>They've got that dog in him.

0:57:56.320 --> 0:57:58.480
<v Speaker 1>In case you're wondering, he does look settle up, so

0:57:58.560 --> 0:58:02.080
<v Speaker 1>like we don't worry about that anymore. The Turk is

0:58:02.120 --> 0:58:04.240
<v Speaker 1>not playing full games, but there is a lot of

0:58:04.280 --> 0:58:07.080
<v Speaker 1>public pressure from a man named Greco who's kind of

0:58:07.080 --> 0:58:10.280
<v Speaker 1>like New York's leading chess player, and he wants to

0:58:10.360 --> 0:58:12.640
<v Speaker 1>play a full game against the Turk, but the Turk

0:58:12.760 --> 0:58:14.880
<v Speaker 1>is like no, no. It comes up with all these excuses,

0:58:15.400 --> 0:58:19.560
<v Speaker 1>comes up up with the excuses, and then goes to Boston.

0:58:19.640 --> 0:58:21.960
<v Speaker 1>And there's like a big rivalry between New York and

0:58:22.000 --> 0:58:25.400
<v Speaker 1>Boston over like who are better chess players. It will

0:58:25.640 --> 0:58:28.720
<v Speaker 1>some other stuff, but like at this point with the Turk,

0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:32.000
<v Speaker 1>they're like hmm. And the Turk does start playing full

0:58:32.080 --> 0:58:36.640
<v Speaker 1>games in Boston and loses a match, which causes people

0:58:36.640 --> 0:58:40.160
<v Speaker 1>in Boston to start bragging about how they're the best.

0:58:40.360 --> 0:58:45.560
<v Speaker 1>Greco writes into a newspaper issuing a challenge. Metal doesn't

0:58:45.560 --> 0:58:48.640
<v Speaker 1>respond yet. It beats a bunch of players. It beats

0:58:48.680 --> 0:58:50.520
<v Speaker 1>most of the players, but does lose to a guy

0:58:50.600 --> 0:58:52.960
<v Speaker 1>named doctor Benjamin Green, who, as you know, it's like

0:58:53.160 --> 0:58:56.880
<v Speaker 1>big bragging rights I beat the right, goes to Philadelphia.

0:58:57.280 --> 0:58:59.760
<v Speaker 1>It does briefly stop in New York City again and

0:58:59.760 --> 0:59:02.240
<v Speaker 1>says it will rise to Greco's challenge.

0:59:03.000 --> 0:59:08.640
<v Speaker 2>The okay, but first I want to get a slice

0:59:08.680 --> 0:59:11.920
<v Speaker 2>of pizza.

0:59:12.680 --> 0:59:15.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's like, should we put money on it?

0:59:15.960 --> 0:59:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Let's meet privately.

0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:20.680
<v Speaker 1>Metzel says, look, my turk is still packed up because

0:59:20.680 --> 0:59:23.720
<v Speaker 1>we're on our way to Philadelphia. But like you're bragging

0:59:23.720 --> 0:59:25.760
<v Speaker 1>about how players in New York City are the best,

0:59:26.360 --> 0:59:30.600
<v Speaker 1>better than European players, would you be willing to play

0:59:30.840 --> 0:59:33.880
<v Speaker 1>my associate, my sort of right hand man and secretary,

0:59:34.280 --> 0:59:37.840
<v Speaker 1>a man named Schlumberger, Because if you're better, then you know,

0:59:37.960 --> 0:59:39.720
<v Speaker 1>if you if you're saying you can beat the turk,

0:59:39.880 --> 0:59:42.960
<v Speaker 1>like you're saying you can bet European players, play my secretary.

0:59:44.080 --> 0:59:48.960
<v Speaker 1>Greco loses to Schlumberger and then issues of public apology

0:59:49.080 --> 0:59:51.640
<v Speaker 1>saying that, like, you know what, American chess players were

0:59:51.680 --> 0:59:54.640
<v Speaker 1>beaten by a foreigner. So I love to see a

0:59:54.680 --> 0:59:59.600
<v Speaker 1>man humbled goes to Philadelphia, goes to Baltimore where the

0:59:59.760 --> 1:00:03.080
<v Speaker 1>MCA turk. I find this very charming. He plays a

1:00:03.120 --> 1:00:06.120
<v Speaker 1>man named Charles Carroll, who is eighty nine years old

1:00:06.200 --> 1:00:08.680
<v Speaker 1>and at this point the last living signer of the

1:00:08.680 --> 1:00:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Declaration of Independence, and like, the Turk loses, but it

1:00:13.960 --> 1:00:16.240
<v Speaker 1>plays like really badly, like it was like one move

1:00:16.280 --> 1:00:19.880
<v Speaker 1>away from winning and then like made a silly move

1:00:20.080 --> 1:00:21.840
<v Speaker 1>so it's like it lost.

1:00:22.240 --> 1:00:24.520
<v Speaker 2>I like that. I like that, I like giving a

1:00:24.520 --> 1:00:26.360
<v Speaker 2>win to an old guy. Yeah, so it's like it

1:00:26.440 --> 1:00:28.520
<v Speaker 2>lost to the old guy, which is cute. And at

1:00:28.520 --> 1:00:31.800
<v Speaker 2>this point, while it's in Baltimore, two young boys climb

1:00:31.840 --> 1:00:35.720
<v Speaker 2>onto a roof nearby and they look down and they

1:00:35.840 --> 1:00:38.480
<v Speaker 2>they write into a newspaper and say, hey, we were

1:00:38.560 --> 1:00:40.600
<v Speaker 2>hanging out on a roof and we saw a guy

1:00:40.760 --> 1:00:45.400
<v Speaker 2>climb out of that machine. The newspaper publish, first publishes

1:00:45.440 --> 1:00:47.720
<v Speaker 2>its account, and then later is like, well, it was

1:00:47.760 --> 1:00:49.760
<v Speaker 2>like two boys were not corroborated, you know, it was

1:00:49.800 --> 1:00:53.520
<v Speaker 2>like uncorroborated. And then also other newspapers are like, you

1:00:53.640 --> 1:00:57.439
<v Speaker 2>stupid idiots, Like that was MATEL trying to drum up publicity,

1:00:58.080 --> 1:01:01.360
<v Speaker 2>like he was trying to be like can you like yeah,

1:01:01.400 --> 1:01:05.000
<v Speaker 2>So people then accuse that newspaper of like falling for

1:01:05.160 --> 1:01:08.000
<v Speaker 2>a hoax, of like there were never two boys you saw.

1:01:08.080 --> 1:01:10.000
<v Speaker 2>He was just trying to be like all press is

1:01:10.040 --> 1:01:12.200
<v Speaker 2>good press, sure, but it doesn't sound like he really

1:01:12.280 --> 1:01:16.600
<v Speaker 2>needs press. No, But that's so okay. Well, putting a

1:01:16.640 --> 1:01:18.040
<v Speaker 2>pin in that bit.

1:01:18.400 --> 1:01:21.160
<v Speaker 1>A little bit, because another like very American thing that

1:01:21.240 --> 1:01:24.600
<v Speaker 1>I think that happens is like there's a lot of imitators.

1:01:24.640 --> 1:01:27.080
<v Speaker 2>At this point, I was about to say, because the

1:01:27.120 --> 1:01:31.680
<v Speaker 2>guy who invented this originally, yeah, someone else could invent

1:01:31.800 --> 1:01:34.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he wasn't like the most genius person in

1:01:34.200 --> 1:01:36.040
<v Speaker 2>the whole wide world. He was like very smart, but

1:01:36.120 --> 1:01:37.560
<v Speaker 2>it did all that stuff in Austria.

1:01:37.640 --> 1:01:41.600
<v Speaker 1>But like there is like a quote unquote American chess player,

1:01:41.640 --> 1:01:46.400
<v Speaker 1>but he's like less impressive robotically, which is again you're like, whoa,

1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:49.240
<v Speaker 1>The mechanical turck was invented decades ago, but still it

1:01:49.320 --> 1:01:53.120
<v Speaker 1>is less impressive mechanically, and it's also worse at chess.

1:01:53.480 --> 1:01:56.440
<v Speaker 2>See Okay, so you're right. You just said why does

1:01:56.480 --> 1:01:58.240
<v Speaker 2>it have to be good at chess? Because if it's

1:01:58.280 --> 1:02:00.680
<v Speaker 2>not good at chess, it's not as impressive. You're right.

1:02:00.800 --> 1:02:02.040
<v Speaker 2>I eat my words.

1:02:02.560 --> 1:02:05.320
<v Speaker 1>He Metchel like tries to buy it to like get

1:02:05.360 --> 1:02:08.320
<v Speaker 1>it off the market. The players refuse, but like that's

1:02:08.320 --> 1:02:10.960
<v Speaker 1>actually not a big deal. It like is eventually sold.

1:02:11.000 --> 1:02:13.040
<v Speaker 1>It's like less good at just no one really cares

1:02:13.040 --> 1:02:17.760
<v Speaker 1>about it. There's an automaton whist player that is whist

1:02:18.080 --> 1:02:20.080
<v Speaker 1>like a game, I guess a card game.

1:02:20.120 --> 1:02:22.200
<v Speaker 2>I think I never heard of this.

1:02:23.000 --> 1:02:26.000
<v Speaker 1>He buys it and then take a shot Lizzie Logan

1:02:26.000 --> 1:02:28.080
<v Speaker 1>because we're about to get a camp P. T.

1:02:28.240 --> 1:02:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Barnum. P. T. Barnum writes in his memoir that he

1:02:32.400 --> 1:02:34.760
<v Speaker 2>meets this is like this is out of a movie.

1:02:34.800 --> 1:02:37.720
<v Speaker 2>This really is my favorite scene. Dana is like wriggling

1:02:37.760 --> 1:02:42.640
<v Speaker 2>around in her chair. She's like having a cane. He P. T.

1:02:42.800 --> 1:02:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Barnum in his My according Memoirs, meets Metzel at this

1:02:46.800 --> 1:02:52.080
<v Speaker 1>point is the greatest showman and right quote that he P. T.

1:02:52.200 --> 1:02:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Barnum was pleased with Metal's assurance that I would certainly

1:02:56.720 --> 1:03:02.880
<v Speaker 1>make a successful showman, like.

1:03:01.200 --> 1:03:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Like at the beginning of the movie, Ye guess the

1:03:03.560 --> 1:03:05.920
<v Speaker 2>goods kid, exactly, you got the goods to trick people.

1:03:05.960 --> 1:03:09.760
<v Speaker 1>One day you'll be the greatest showman. Also, the mechanical

1:03:09.800 --> 1:03:12.080
<v Speaker 1>check is kind of like Forrest Gump, Like it just

1:03:12.080 --> 1:03:14.160
<v Speaker 1>like keeps appearing throughout history.

1:03:14.480 --> 1:03:18.720
<v Speaker 2>Like meeting. It's like and that little kid with Steve Jobs,

1:03:18.800 --> 1:03:22.360
<v Speaker 2>Well you know who it's about to meet. Okay, it's

1:03:22.360 --> 1:03:25.600
<v Speaker 2>already met Ben Franklin. Yeah, it's already met Napoleon. Yep,

1:03:25.680 --> 1:03:28.240
<v Speaker 2>it's already met P. T. Barnum, It's already met a

1:03:28.280 --> 1:03:31.040
<v Speaker 2>signer of the Declaration of Well, did Ben Franklin sign

1:03:31.080 --> 1:03:32.000
<v Speaker 2>the Decoration of Inpendence?

1:03:32.000 --> 1:03:32.200
<v Speaker 4>I think?

1:03:32.320 --> 1:03:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So it's now met two signers of the Decoration

1:03:34.280 --> 1:03:36.800
<v Speaker 2>of Independance. Who else could it possibly meet?

1:03:36.880 --> 1:03:40.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, it goes down to Richmond, Virginia in eighteen thirty

1:03:40.240 --> 1:03:43.520
<v Speaker 1>five and meets a young reporter writing for the Southern

1:03:43.600 --> 1:03:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Literary Messenger named Edgar Allan Poe and Edgar A. And

1:03:48.400 --> 1:03:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Poe writes this famous essay explaining how he thinks it works.

1:03:53.840 --> 1:03:56.840
<v Speaker 1>Is he right, no, okay, And he's close though, he's like,

1:03:57.000 --> 1:04:00.840
<v Speaker 1>it's like pretty good. His conclusion is basically the same

1:04:00.880 --> 1:04:04.520
<v Speaker 1>as that young guy Willis's, which is like the cabinet

1:04:04.640 --> 1:04:07.200
<v Speaker 1>is like there's movable partitions, it's like a trick cabinet.

1:04:07.200 --> 1:04:09.640
<v Speaker 1>There's someone in there. And he does think that someone

1:04:09.800 --> 1:04:13.280
<v Speaker 1>moves up into the turk's body, and he points out,

1:04:13.360 --> 1:04:15.800
<v Speaker 1>he does make the very intelligent observation that you never

1:04:15.880 --> 1:04:18.560
<v Speaker 1>see that Schlumberger guy in the same place as the turk,

1:04:20.200 --> 1:04:22.960
<v Speaker 1>and you know there was a moment when Schlumberger was

1:04:23.000 --> 1:04:25.200
<v Speaker 1>ill and the Turk's performances stops.

1:04:27.360 --> 1:04:30.560
<v Speaker 2>So it's like just like happened to be quite short.

1:04:31.520 --> 1:04:35.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't know actually but again Edgar ound Poe. People

1:04:35.720 --> 1:04:39.040
<v Speaker 1>say that he's like famous for inventing the detective story.

1:04:39.880 --> 1:04:42.800
<v Speaker 1>That's like a thing that like and like this article

1:04:42.880 --> 1:04:45.000
<v Speaker 1>that he wrote which is very interesting that I will

1:04:45.760 --> 1:04:49.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, link to. In the episode description is kind

1:04:49.600 --> 1:04:53.360
<v Speaker 1>of structured and written like a detective story. It is like,

1:04:53.600 --> 1:04:57.080
<v Speaker 1>here's the situation, here's my investigation, here are my observations,

1:04:57.080 --> 1:05:00.680
<v Speaker 1>here's my conclusion. So he's kind of mass bring the form,

1:05:01.480 --> 1:05:06.120
<v Speaker 1>just like another interesting cameo. Meanwhile, the tour continues around

1:05:06.120 --> 1:05:12.200
<v Speaker 1>the US New Orleans eventually Havana. I think Mettel realizes

1:05:12.280 --> 1:05:14.200
<v Speaker 1>this time, like with the Imitator, like, look, I'm not

1:05:14.240 --> 1:05:16.400
<v Speaker 1>going to just get by on my mechanical turk. I

1:05:16.440 --> 1:05:19.520
<v Speaker 1>need like my whole little museum collection. So while he's

1:05:19.560 --> 1:05:22.240
<v Speaker 1>like working on a bigger, better version of the conflagration

1:05:22.320 --> 1:05:25.320
<v Speaker 1>of Moscow, he builds like a diorama of the Pyrrhic

1:05:25.440 --> 1:05:29.640
<v Speaker 1>fires and like has a few other little like cabinet tricks,

1:05:29.720 --> 1:05:33.320
<v Speaker 1>oh kbinet of curiosity tricks. But then you know, things

1:05:33.400 --> 1:05:36.920
<v Speaker 1>take a turn for the worst. In November of eighteen

1:05:37.040 --> 1:05:40.200
<v Speaker 1>thirty seven, he's going on a second tour of Havana,

1:05:41.240 --> 1:05:44.280
<v Speaker 1>but in the spring of that year, Schlumberger, his right

1:05:44.280 --> 1:05:49.880
<v Speaker 1>hand man and secretary, dies of yellow fever. Oh yeah,

1:05:50.120 --> 1:05:53.480
<v Speaker 1>it never says anywhere, and there's no evidence that they're lovers,

1:05:53.600 --> 1:05:56.480
<v Speaker 1>but I like to imagine the lack okay, because he's

1:05:56.480 --> 1:05:59.600
<v Speaker 1>really sad when he dies. The rest of Mental's company

1:05:59.800 --> 1:06:02.760
<v Speaker 1>does hurt him. He's in debt from building his new

1:06:03.040 --> 1:06:06.160
<v Speaker 1>better Conflagration of Moscow, and he's like alone on a

1:06:06.200 --> 1:06:09.320
<v Speaker 1>ship and like this is like the saddest detail to me.

1:06:09.640 --> 1:06:12.480
<v Speaker 1>He's on this ship coming back from Havana. The captain

1:06:12.520 --> 1:06:15.600
<v Speaker 1>sees him sitting alone with a travel chess set and

1:06:15.720 --> 1:06:17.280
<v Speaker 1>challenges him to a game of chess.

1:06:18.240 --> 1:06:19.880
<v Speaker 2>It's like chess, I know.

1:06:20.000 --> 1:06:23.200
<v Speaker 1>And Metzl wins one game and then plays a second

1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:25.840
<v Speaker 1>game and loses, and he's like a bad sport about it,

1:06:25.920 --> 1:06:28.880
<v Speaker 1>and like goes to his cabin, stays there for six

1:06:28.960 --> 1:06:32.680
<v Speaker 1>days straight drinking, and then the like people in the

1:06:32.680 --> 1:06:34.440
<v Speaker 1>cabin in the ship find him.

1:06:34.520 --> 1:06:37.840
<v Speaker 2>He died and he's buried at sea. July. Oh, he

1:06:38.000 --> 1:06:42.040
<v Speaker 2>dies dies too on the ship. That is that's not

1:06:42.200 --> 1:06:45.640
<v Speaker 2>just sad, that's like yeah, man.

1:06:45.400 --> 1:06:47.520
<v Speaker 1>And I will say, like for a guy who was

1:06:47.560 --> 1:06:51.240
<v Speaker 1>like a con man and plagiarist. Like people are sad

1:06:51.400 --> 1:06:53.840
<v Speaker 1>when he dies, like it's nice obituaries because he was

1:06:53.880 --> 1:06:56.200
<v Speaker 1>like a good entertainer. Yeah, and this is kind of

1:06:56.240 --> 1:06:59.640
<v Speaker 1>the era where it's like it was entertainment. He wasn't,

1:06:59.680 --> 1:07:01.520
<v Speaker 1>like I mean, it sounds like he was.

1:07:03.360 --> 1:07:09.080
<v Speaker 2>Like bad with money con Man, not like promising you

1:07:09.440 --> 1:07:12.840
<v Speaker 2>riches and taking your money and absconding in the night

1:07:12.880 --> 1:07:15.880
<v Speaker 2>and leaving you pregnant with the bad debts con Man.

1:07:15.960 --> 1:07:17.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, like, again, there's a difference.

1:07:17.600 --> 1:07:20.840
<v Speaker 1>The goal was entertainment always, which like as far as

1:07:20.840 --> 1:07:23.640
<v Speaker 1>hoaxes go, I kind of always am on the side

1:07:23.680 --> 1:07:26.040
<v Speaker 1>of like, well that's like you know, and noble hoax.

1:07:26.080 --> 1:07:29.160
<v Speaker 1>If it's like consensual entertainment, sure, like a magic show.

1:07:29.280 --> 1:07:31.439
<v Speaker 2>And also I can't imagine the tickets to this work

1:07:31.520 --> 1:07:32.439
<v Speaker 2>costs very much.

1:07:32.680 --> 1:07:36.720
<v Speaker 1>No, And I don't think people were going like they

1:07:36.720 --> 1:07:39.360
<v Speaker 1>weren't being like I'm going to install a chess playing

1:07:39.480 --> 1:07:41.680
<v Speaker 1>robot technology in my home. You just get to like

1:07:41.760 --> 1:07:45.040
<v Speaker 1>go and be like that's cool and go about your day.

1:07:45.120 --> 1:07:46.560
<v Speaker 2>And if you found out that it wasn't real, you

1:07:46.560 --> 1:07:47.400
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't be like, my.

1:07:47.400 --> 1:07:48.200
<v Speaker 4>Life is alive.

1:07:48.560 --> 1:07:50.720
<v Speaker 1>I do kind of think of it as like a magician,

1:07:50.760 --> 1:07:52.760
<v Speaker 1>where like if you see a magician like a good

1:07:52.760 --> 1:07:55.080
<v Speaker 1>magic trick, you're I have no idea how that worked.

1:07:55.080 --> 1:07:57.320
<v Speaker 1>That was great, but like you kind of know it's

1:07:57.360 --> 1:07:59.360
<v Speaker 1>not real, but you can still be impressed.

1:07:59.480 --> 1:08:02.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, yeah, they don't sew a lady in half.

1:08:02.360 --> 1:08:03.800
<v Speaker 2>I hope everybody everyone knows that.

1:08:03.880 --> 1:08:06.960
<v Speaker 1>So with that, as I mentioned, like Mitchel was in

1:08:07.040 --> 1:08:10.440
<v Speaker 1>debt from like building his new conflagration of Moscow, and

1:08:10.480 --> 1:08:13.520
<v Speaker 1>like the businessman who had loaned him money, takes possession

1:08:13.640 --> 1:08:16.200
<v Speaker 1>of his things, tries to auction off the turk.

1:08:16.960 --> 1:08:17.759
<v Speaker 2>No one really.

1:08:17.520 --> 1:08:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Buys it, so he basically just buys it to himself

1:08:20.240 --> 1:08:23.040
<v Speaker 1>for four hundred dollars the equivalent of about like twelve

1:08:23.040 --> 1:08:24.080
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars today.

1:08:24.200 --> 1:08:24.800
<v Speaker 2>Who buys it?

1:08:25.120 --> 1:08:28.000
<v Speaker 1>This businessman, oh John, He just sort of like took

1:08:28.080 --> 1:08:33.280
<v Speaker 1>possession of Mantel's things. But then there's this man John

1:08:33.520 --> 1:08:36.759
<v Speaker 1>kerz Lee Mitchell, who actually is Edgar around Poe's personal

1:08:36.760 --> 1:08:40.679
<v Speaker 1>physician at this point, and he is very curious about

1:08:40.880 --> 1:08:43.559
<v Speaker 1>how the mechanical turk works, Like he likes the history,

1:08:43.600 --> 1:08:48.200
<v Speaker 1>he thinks it's cool, and he basically crowdsources buy it

1:08:48.240 --> 1:08:50.479
<v Speaker 1>so that everyone can pay to like see how it works.

1:08:50.720 --> 1:08:52.799
<v Speaker 1>He's like, buy a ticket to like join my club,

1:08:53.040 --> 1:08:56.280
<v Speaker 1>will buy the robot and like figure out how it works. Yeah,

1:08:56.320 --> 1:09:00.080
<v Speaker 1>and he does, and in eighteen forty like people he

1:09:00.240 --> 1:09:02.920
<v Speaker 1>either five or ten dollars, he has seventy five like

1:09:02.960 --> 1:09:04.360
<v Speaker 1>quote unquote subscribers.

1:09:04.920 --> 1:09:06.000
<v Speaker 2>They buy the machine.

1:09:07.360 --> 1:09:10.120
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately for him, it was like separated in a bunch

1:09:10.200 --> 1:09:14.200
<v Speaker 1>of crates, like pieces seem to be missing, and there's

1:09:14.200 --> 1:09:16.800
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of like red herring pieces, like presumably

1:09:16.840 --> 1:09:19.280
<v Speaker 1>because like when it was traveling place to place, they

1:09:19.360 --> 1:09:22.360
<v Speaker 1>like didn't want everyone who unloaded the boxes to know

1:09:22.400 --> 1:09:25.479
<v Speaker 1>how it works. So like it's kind of hard to

1:09:25.520 --> 1:09:28.960
<v Speaker 1>put back together. It's a tricky puzzle. But eventually he

1:09:29.000 --> 1:09:33.000
<v Speaker 1>does public performances for his like little club of people

1:09:33.040 --> 1:09:35.080
<v Speaker 1>where they would like do the performance and then like

1:09:35.200 --> 1:09:38.120
<v Speaker 1>show ever and how it works. He kind of loses

1:09:38.120 --> 1:09:40.800
<v Speaker 1>interests at a certain point because he's like, I don't

1:09:40.800 --> 1:09:42.640
<v Speaker 1>want everyone coming over to my office to see how

1:09:42.680 --> 1:09:45.720
<v Speaker 1>this works. Like we figured this out. He donated to

1:09:45.800 --> 1:09:48.840
<v Speaker 1>the Philadelphia Museum aka known at this point as the

1:09:48.960 --> 1:09:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Chinese Museum, because like, once you know the secret, it's

1:09:52.080 --> 1:09:54.800
<v Speaker 1>less interesting. It's like a cool historical object, but like,

1:09:54.840 --> 1:09:55.720
<v Speaker 1>what are you gonna.

1:09:55.479 --> 1:09:57.640
<v Speaker 2>Do with it, but I want to know the secret.

1:09:58.000 --> 1:10:02.439
<v Speaker 1>Well, it does a few acasional shows at the museum,

1:10:02.479 --> 1:10:05.720
<v Speaker 1>but like now that there's no showman, yeah, it's not

1:10:05.800 --> 1:10:08.640
<v Speaker 1>really no one really cares. Okay, it's relegated to the

1:10:08.680 --> 1:10:12.479
<v Speaker 1>back of the museum. And then July fifth, eighteen fifty four,

1:10:12.560 --> 1:10:13.880
<v Speaker 1>I have some really bad news.

1:10:13.960 --> 1:10:14.719
<v Speaker 2>Is it burned down?

1:10:15.200 --> 1:10:18.240
<v Speaker 1>A fire starts at a National theater in nearby reaches

1:10:18.280 --> 1:10:22.880
<v Speaker 1>the museum. John Mitchell's son Silas, recounts that like he

1:10:23.000 --> 1:10:25.559
<v Speaker 1>ran to the museum to try to save it, and he,

1:10:25.720 --> 1:10:28.760
<v Speaker 1>like very romantically recounts like I don't like to see it.

1:10:29.160 --> 1:10:29.559
<v Speaker 2>He does.

1:10:29.600 --> 1:10:31.799
<v Speaker 1>He says that he heard it say it's final words

1:10:31.840 --> 1:10:36.920
<v Speaker 1>like chick and burned down. At this point, though, I'm

1:10:36.920 --> 1:10:39.120
<v Speaker 1>going to put you out of your misery because.

1:10:38.960 --> 1:10:43.280
<v Speaker 2>This is my curiosity, like horniness for this information.

1:10:43.880 --> 1:10:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, so Silas where Mitchell, the son of the guy

1:10:47.200 --> 1:10:50.640
<v Speaker 1>who like purchased it for the club, is like, you

1:10:50.680 --> 1:10:53.479
<v Speaker 1>know what, now that it's burned down, now that doesn't exist,

1:10:53.560 --> 1:10:55.000
<v Speaker 1>I will publish the answer.

1:10:55.080 --> 1:10:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay. Side note Silas.

1:10:57.360 --> 1:10:59.599
<v Speaker 1>Where Mitchell the guy, the son of the guy who

1:10:59.600 --> 1:11:02.920
<v Speaker 1>published the answer, is also the guy who invented the

1:11:03.080 --> 1:11:05.639
<v Speaker 1>rest cure for women, which is like, if you're sick,

1:11:05.800 --> 1:11:07.280
<v Speaker 1>just sit in bed and do nothing.

1:11:07.800 --> 1:11:10.679
<v Speaker 2>Someone had to invent that. Well, like it's a bad ideas,

1:11:10.760 --> 1:11:12.080
<v Speaker 2>like ancient wisdom.

1:11:12.680 --> 1:11:14.840
<v Speaker 1>Charlotte Perkins Gilman, did you have to read the Yellow

1:11:14.880 --> 1:11:17.479
<v Speaker 1>wallpaper in college about that woman who it goes crazy? Well,

1:11:17.520 --> 1:11:20.160
<v Speaker 1>he treated her and she read the short story about

1:11:20.360 --> 1:11:22.559
<v Speaker 1>going nuts, because that's not a way to treat women.

1:11:23.960 --> 1:11:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's that's him.

1:11:25.320 --> 1:11:28.840
<v Speaker 1>He's published in Answers and also coming up with sort

1:11:28.840 --> 1:11:32.240
<v Speaker 1>of a Victorian cures for curing women.

1:11:32.800 --> 1:11:35.680
<v Speaker 2>I do think, like go hang out by the seaside.

1:11:35.720 --> 1:11:38.320
<v Speaker 2>That's a good cure. Away from everyone who's bothering you,

1:11:38.520 --> 1:11:39.320
<v Speaker 2>is like a good cure.

1:11:39.520 --> 1:11:41.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but like sit in a bed and you can't

1:11:41.600 --> 1:11:44.880
<v Speaker 1>read or like interact with anyone or do anything would

1:11:44.920 --> 1:11:49.000
<v Speaker 1>be torture. But okay, here is the answer. As he

1:11:49.040 --> 1:11:54.400
<v Speaker 1>publishes it, people were right about like details about their theories,

1:11:54.400 --> 1:11:56.599
<v Speaker 1>but no one had put it all together.

1:11:56.680 --> 1:11:58.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like everybody got five percent, got everyone got

1:11:59.000 --> 1:12:01.720
<v Speaker 2>kind of like fifty percent. Okay, but here's the kind

1:12:01.760 --> 1:12:04.760
<v Speaker 2>of the amazing thing, Like this is decades later, like

1:12:04.800 --> 1:12:07.439
<v Speaker 2>it is almost one hundred years later that this guy

1:12:07.520 --> 1:12:10.120
<v Speaker 2>invented this like magic trick really and like no one

1:12:10.240 --> 1:12:13.240
<v Speaker 2>figured it out, which is like, great, good job, this

1:12:13.400 --> 1:12:17.960
<v Speaker 2>successful piece of entertainment. It's like a chess move.

1:12:18.320 --> 1:12:22.840
<v Speaker 1>The way it worked is that bottom drawer did not

1:12:23.080 --> 1:12:26.720
<v Speaker 1>extend all the way back correct on that inside. I'm

1:12:26.720 --> 1:12:28.559
<v Speaker 1>going to try to find a picture that I think

1:12:28.600 --> 1:12:31.760
<v Speaker 1>will sum this up really well. Here we go inside.

1:12:32.000 --> 1:12:35.840
<v Speaker 1>There is a sliding seat, so if you're on a seat,

1:12:36.280 --> 1:12:40.639
<v Speaker 1>it slides back and forth, so there is surprise surprise

1:12:40.960 --> 1:12:44.040
<v Speaker 1>a person inside. Someone is like crouched at the back,

1:12:44.439 --> 1:12:48.280
<v Speaker 1>and when he's showing the front right, he's like back,

1:12:48.439 --> 1:12:49.800
<v Speaker 1>he like sells a chair back.

1:12:49.920 --> 1:12:54.120
<v Speaker 2>Basically, you're in whatever part of the box is not

1:12:54.280 --> 1:12:55.360
<v Speaker 2>on display.

1:12:55.160 --> 1:12:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, And then when he's like displaying the bigger compartment,

1:12:58.080 --> 1:13:01.200
<v Speaker 1>you pull slide the sliding chair FOURD and he can

1:13:01.240 --> 1:13:05.479
<v Speaker 1>open that one and then when it closes you can

1:13:05.520 --> 1:13:07.760
<v Speaker 1>sort of sit up right. And the way it worked

1:13:07.800 --> 1:13:11.439
<v Speaker 1>it's actually kind of amazing technology because like, Okay, what

1:13:11.640 --> 1:13:15.439
<v Speaker 1>is your theory of how he would know what was

1:13:15.479 --> 1:13:19.840
<v Speaker 1>happening on the chess game. There's a guy sitting in

1:13:19.880 --> 1:13:21.120
<v Speaker 1>the cabinet that much we know.

1:13:21.439 --> 1:13:27.120
<v Speaker 2>This is not my theory. This is my half remembered

1:13:27.960 --> 1:13:32.600
<v Speaker 2>explanation from this YouTube video. Okay, is that like basically

1:13:32.720 --> 1:13:36.720
<v Speaker 2>there was like a magnet version. I'm picturing it like

1:13:36.920 --> 1:13:43.559
<v Speaker 2>upside down of the chessboard, so that they could just

1:13:43.600 --> 1:13:47.719
<v Speaker 2>sort of know what was going on up there.

1:13:48.320 --> 1:13:51.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's that's the basic idea. So what it

1:13:51.520 --> 1:13:54.760
<v Speaker 1>is what you should picture is on the roof of

1:13:54.800 --> 1:14:01.920
<v Speaker 1>the the box cabinet. Imagine little strings hold like magnetized

1:14:02.000 --> 1:14:05.559
<v Speaker 1>little discs. Yeah, And all of the chess pieces have

1:14:05.640 --> 1:14:09.679
<v Speaker 1>magnets in them, so when a piece is on a square,

1:14:10.240 --> 1:14:13.679
<v Speaker 1>the little disc is magnetized up. And if you pick

1:14:13.720 --> 1:14:16.080
<v Speaker 1>a piece up, it drops on the string right, So

1:14:16.120 --> 1:14:18.120
<v Speaker 1>then it would like bounce on the string and you could.

1:14:18.000 --> 1:14:19.679
<v Speaker 2>Be like, ah, that guy picked up that piece.

1:14:19.760 --> 1:14:21.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and then when you put it on a new square,

1:14:22.160 --> 1:14:26.080
<v Speaker 1>that little magnetized disc jumps up to magnetize, right, so

1:14:26.120 --> 1:14:29.559
<v Speaker 1>he could follow the game upside down, yes, and then

1:14:29.600 --> 1:14:32.920
<v Speaker 1>he would have his own board, like he would be

1:14:32.960 --> 1:14:35.800
<v Speaker 1>able to move this thing that then would move the

1:14:36.720 --> 1:14:39.600
<v Speaker 1>arm of the turk in a corresponding.

1:14:38.760 --> 1:14:42.639
<v Speaker 2>Way like an autograph machine. An autograph machine exactly.

1:14:42.680 --> 1:14:45.080
<v Speaker 5>So you see it's like he was so basically it's

1:14:45.120 --> 1:14:50.400
<v Speaker 5>like we're talking like a series of interconnected sticks going

1:14:50.439 --> 1:14:55.600
<v Speaker 5>from my hand up to the Turk's hand, so that

1:14:55.720 --> 1:14:58.240
<v Speaker 5>if I move my hand.

1:14:58.360 --> 1:15:04.280
<v Speaker 2>Two inches north, its hand moves two inches north. So

1:15:04.720 --> 1:15:09.320
<v Speaker 2>I can operate it from below and you open your hand,

1:15:09.360 --> 1:15:12.679
<v Speaker 2>I close the hand, open claw, pick up piece, clothes

1:15:12.720 --> 1:15:18.200
<v Speaker 2>claw exactly, yes, And he could make make the turk nod.

1:15:18.720 --> 1:15:22.440
<v Speaker 1>He could make him roll his eyes with little mechanisms inside.

1:15:22.520 --> 1:15:25.720
<v Speaker 1>He could also just make like generic whirring sounds, like

1:15:25.800 --> 1:15:28.080
<v Speaker 1>generically if he had like coffer sneeze, it would make

1:15:28.120 --> 1:15:31.479
<v Speaker 1>like machine sounds to cover the coffer sneeze. There was

1:15:31.520 --> 1:15:34.559
<v Speaker 1>sort of a it's not like that important, but like

1:15:34.600 --> 1:15:38.080
<v Speaker 1>a little number code system that they could twist inside

1:15:38.120 --> 1:15:41.559
<v Speaker 1>outside like imagine just like a little simple thing where

1:15:41.680 --> 1:15:44.080
<v Speaker 1>like numbers would appear on the outside to communicate little

1:15:44.080 --> 1:15:46.559
<v Speaker 1>messages back and forth to be like my candle went out,

1:15:46.920 --> 1:15:50.080
<v Speaker 1>and then he could like come down and like readjust

1:15:50.160 --> 1:15:53.960
<v Speaker 1>the you know, mechanics relight the candle. The reason that

1:15:54.000 --> 1:15:58.639
<v Speaker 1>the Turk always had a candelabra on the table wasn't

1:15:58.680 --> 1:16:00.960
<v Speaker 1>just to light the game, but also to know how

1:16:01.280 --> 1:16:05.400
<v Speaker 1>no to disguise the smoke of the other, which is

1:16:05.400 --> 1:16:07.880
<v Speaker 1>pretty clever, and it leads to my next point that

1:16:07.920 --> 1:16:10.559
<v Speaker 1>there's like a lot of like literature and stories about

1:16:10.560 --> 1:16:13.559
<v Speaker 1>this because it's like very romantic. There's also this story

1:16:13.560 --> 1:16:17.160
<v Speaker 1>that is unfortunately not true, that says, like, Okay, before

1:16:17.240 --> 1:16:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Compellan built his mechanical turk, he was in Russia working

1:16:20.880 --> 1:16:25.200
<v Speaker 1>on his speaking machine, and he ran into this Polish

1:16:25.360 --> 1:16:28.559
<v Speaker 1>revolutionary who had led an uprising against the Russian army

1:16:28.960 --> 1:16:31.439
<v Speaker 1>and which there was that was real, and he had

1:16:31.479 --> 1:16:33.760
<v Speaker 1>lost his legs in battle, but he can't get out

1:16:33.800 --> 1:16:36.960
<v Speaker 1>of Russia because he's a wanted man. And so while

1:16:36.960 --> 1:16:39.960
<v Speaker 1>they're holed up in a cabin, Compellan realizes that he

1:16:40.240 --> 1:16:43.240
<v Speaker 1>is amazing at chess, and he builds this mechanical turk

1:16:43.320 --> 1:16:47.680
<v Speaker 1>to like sneak him out of Russia. Funny, and like

1:16:47.760 --> 1:16:49.200
<v Speaker 1>then there's another like.

1:16:49.400 --> 1:16:51.240
<v Speaker 2>But then he actually did solve a mystery and gets

1:16:51.280 --> 1:16:52.920
<v Speaker 2>several wrongfully imprisonment out of jail.

1:16:53.000 --> 1:16:57.320
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, apparently, so like there's a lot of romantic stories,

1:16:57.360 --> 1:17:00.559
<v Speaker 1>and I, you know, I think it's very like it

1:17:00.680 --> 1:17:03.920
<v Speaker 1>raises very interesting questions about thinking and what a machine

1:17:03.960 --> 1:17:07.280
<v Speaker 1>can do, because, as you mentioned, like now robots can

1:17:07.320 --> 1:17:15.000
<v Speaker 1>play chess. There's a very famous period where a i'll

1:17:15.040 --> 1:17:18.880
<v Speaker 1>say robot, machine, computer, computer is the word named deep

1:17:18.880 --> 1:17:21.760
<v Speaker 1>Blue will play against the chess grand master Kasparov and

1:17:21.840 --> 1:17:24.720
<v Speaker 1>it'll beat him. And it's like a computer can now

1:17:24.760 --> 1:17:29.160
<v Speaker 1>beat a grand master, and like nowadays machines can play

1:17:29.240 --> 1:17:32.960
<v Speaker 1>chess like they're nothing. But like I will ask you

1:17:33.000 --> 1:17:35.640
<v Speaker 1>the philosophical question if you don't mind me taking a

1:17:35.640 --> 1:17:40.800
<v Speaker 1>few moments, like a lot of times those machines. I'm

1:17:40.840 --> 1:17:43.760
<v Speaker 1>not an expert in computers, but at least the way

1:17:43.880 --> 1:17:47.480
<v Speaker 1>deep Blue was playing and deep thought, which is like precursor,

1:17:47.760 --> 1:17:53.680
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of like rote information. It knows all the

1:17:53.760 --> 1:17:56.679
<v Speaker 1>possible moves and then it sort of reads okay, based

1:17:56.720 --> 1:17:58.840
<v Speaker 1>on this position, like here are all the possible moves

1:17:58.880 --> 1:18:02.160
<v Speaker 1>I could make like information trees, and just there's a

1:18:02.160 --> 1:18:06.960
<v Speaker 1>lot of computational power that it can store all that

1:18:07.040 --> 1:18:10.599
<v Speaker 1>information and then apply it. But like, is a computer

1:18:10.760 --> 1:18:13.720
<v Speaker 1>thinking if it is plain chess? Is my question to you,

1:18:14.600 --> 1:18:18.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean, what is thinking? So there's a famous thought experiment.

1:18:18.920 --> 1:18:22.759
<v Speaker 1>I think therefore it am there's a famous thought experiment

1:18:22.840 --> 1:18:26.320
<v Speaker 1>I barely called the Chinese room thought experiment that like

1:18:26.560 --> 1:18:29.439
<v Speaker 1>this whole thing kind of reminds me of which is

1:18:29.479 --> 1:18:32.840
<v Speaker 1>this idea that like it was written in the I

1:18:32.840 --> 1:18:35.960
<v Speaker 1>say nineteen nineteen eighty by a man named John Searle,

1:18:36.200 --> 1:18:39.000
<v Speaker 1>who said, like, imagine you are in a room. To

1:18:39.040 --> 1:18:41.320
<v Speaker 1>the best of my anlogy, you do not speak Chinese. No,

1:18:41.680 --> 1:18:44.519
<v Speaker 1>but imagine you had a I can say, anyhow well done.

1:18:44.680 --> 1:18:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Imagine you had a book that basically like, you're in

1:18:47.640 --> 1:18:49.680
<v Speaker 1>a room, someone slides a piece of paper under the

1:18:49.680 --> 1:18:52.160
<v Speaker 1>door with a Chinese symbol, and you have a big

1:18:52.160 --> 1:18:54.600
<v Speaker 1>old book that is like if someone gives you this

1:18:54.640 --> 1:18:58.160
<v Speaker 1>symbol right back this symbol, and so someone writes you

1:18:58.360 --> 1:19:01.840
<v Speaker 1>a Chinese symbol, you and like, you write the Chinese

1:19:01.880 --> 1:19:05.120
<v Speaker 1>symbol back, and then they write you a different Chinese symbol,

1:19:05.240 --> 1:19:07.479
<v Speaker 1>and then you figure out reading the book and send

1:19:07.520 --> 1:19:10.280
<v Speaker 1>a Chinese symbol back. That person on the other side

1:19:10.320 --> 1:19:12.400
<v Speaker 1>would be like, Wow, this person is writing to me

1:19:12.520 --> 1:19:15.599
<v Speaker 1>back and forth in Chinese, but you do not understand Chinese.

1:19:16.120 --> 1:19:18.240
<v Speaker 2>So they think we're having a conversation, yeah, and you

1:19:18.280 --> 1:19:20.160
<v Speaker 2>want I'm just being a little computer. Yeah.

1:19:20.200 --> 1:19:23.640
<v Speaker 1>And so the question is like, I guess the philosophical

1:19:23.800 --> 1:19:26.800
<v Speaker 1>argument is like you are playing that game, but you

1:19:26.840 --> 1:19:30.400
<v Speaker 1>do not understand Chinese. A computer can say like, okay,

1:19:30.439 --> 1:19:33.320
<v Speaker 1>if a piece moves here, then like statistically I should

1:19:33.320 --> 1:19:35.600
<v Speaker 1>move my piece here. But does that mean it like

1:19:36.720 --> 1:19:38.840
<v Speaker 1>understands Yeah, And.

1:19:38.840 --> 1:19:39.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

1:19:40.800 --> 1:19:43.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't like this is now with questions of like

1:19:43.240 --> 1:19:45.600
<v Speaker 1>ai is it just like a lot of these like

1:19:45.720 --> 1:19:50.240
<v Speaker 1>language models are just like filling in like predictive text.

1:19:50.800 --> 1:19:52.640
<v Speaker 2>But are they thinking? I don't. These are like.

1:19:52.680 --> 1:19:55.439
<v Speaker 1>Questions that I think philosophers are going to be reckoning

1:19:55.439 --> 1:19:57.200
<v Speaker 1>with for for a long time.

1:19:57.960 --> 1:20:01.479
<v Speaker 2>I know, because it's also like I won't speak for

1:20:01.800 --> 1:20:04.880
<v Speaker 2>why chess players play chess. I think that depends player

1:20:04.920 --> 1:20:07.120
<v Speaker 2>to player, but a lot of them are like they

1:20:07.200 --> 1:20:08.840
<v Speaker 2>might they might be doing it for like the love

1:20:08.840 --> 1:20:10.280
<v Speaker 2>of the game. Yeah you know what I mean. Like

1:20:11.200 --> 1:20:14.240
<v Speaker 2>I didn't understand running for a really long time where

1:20:14.280 --> 1:20:16.599
<v Speaker 2>I was like where are you going? I still don't,

1:20:16.840 --> 1:20:19.719
<v Speaker 2>but it's like, oh, they they just like to run,

1:20:20.400 --> 1:20:22.200
<v Speaker 2>like they just like to Is that.

1:20:22.200 --> 1:20:24.760
<v Speaker 1>In favor of playing chess against humans or playing against run?

1:20:25.040 --> 1:20:27.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm just like, do you have to know? Do you

1:20:27.840 --> 1:20:30.000
<v Speaker 2>have to understand what a game of chess is? Like?

1:20:30.160 --> 1:20:34.120
<v Speaker 2>Isn't the act of computing what the best chess move

1:20:34.280 --> 1:20:39.720
<v Speaker 2>is like that is what chess is. Yeah, regardless of

1:20:39.720 --> 1:20:42.600
<v Speaker 2>the outcome. That's that's a good argument, say, you know

1:20:42.640 --> 1:20:44.439
<v Speaker 2>what I mean, that's what they like about it, the

1:20:44.479 --> 1:20:47.000
<v Speaker 2>fact they like sitting there thinking about it. Yeah, not

1:20:47.080 --> 1:20:48.840
<v Speaker 2>that it doesn't have a deeper meaning to those people,

1:20:48.880 --> 1:20:51.639
<v Speaker 2>but it's like that's like what they enjoy about it

1:20:51.680 --> 1:20:54.360
<v Speaker 2>is the you know what I mean, Like swimming laps

1:20:54.360 --> 1:20:56.280
<v Speaker 2>seems like so freaking boring to me, but it's like

1:20:56.320 --> 1:21:00.160
<v Speaker 2>that's what swimmers like about it is the meditative, you

1:21:00.160 --> 1:21:01.519
<v Speaker 2>know what I mean. I mean, this is the.

1:21:01.479 --> 1:21:04.960
<v Speaker 1>Bigger philosophical question. Someone like John Seerl would argue that,

1:21:05.000 --> 1:21:09.720
<v Speaker 1>like there is something more to playing chess or like

1:21:09.880 --> 1:21:13.400
<v Speaker 1>understanding Chinese than just like writing the correct characters. But

1:21:13.439 --> 1:21:15.920
<v Speaker 1>I think plenty of people like you would argue, like, no,

1:21:16.040 --> 1:21:20.400
<v Speaker 1>it is the action that defines the thought process.

1:21:20.640 --> 1:21:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, like that there is something more like within that

1:21:24.080 --> 1:21:28.559
<v Speaker 2>action that, like the action thinking through it is the

1:21:28.680 --> 1:21:30.720
<v Speaker 2>ultimate form of it. So are you saying, like just

1:21:30.840 --> 1:21:34.760
<v Speaker 2>my computers are thinking or no, I don't know. I

1:21:34.800 --> 1:21:37.320
<v Speaker 2>think they're playing chess. They are playing chess. I think

1:21:37.360 --> 1:21:39.759
<v Speaker 2>they are playing chess. I don't know if they're thinking.

1:21:40.560 --> 1:21:43.600
<v Speaker 1>I think just like a fun thing about about the

1:21:43.640 --> 1:21:48.320
<v Speaker 1>mechanical turk is do you remember a Tesla we robot

1:21:48.360 --> 1:21:51.439
<v Speaker 1>event in twenty twenty four when they had like Tesla

1:21:51.520 --> 1:21:54.439
<v Speaker 1>bots they call it, I guess they're called Optimists, but they.

1:21:54.400 --> 1:21:55.439
<v Speaker 2>Were electronic drinks.

1:21:55.520 --> 1:21:58.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but they're actually tele operated by humans.

1:21:59.160 --> 1:22:01.519
<v Speaker 2>Yes. Do you remember when Amazon tried to do a

1:22:01.520 --> 1:22:04.720
<v Speaker 2>whole grocery store where you didn't have to like do

1:22:04.880 --> 1:22:07.439
<v Speaker 2>check out Amazon, just walk away? Wait, but I want

1:22:07.439 --> 1:22:09.200
<v Speaker 2>to finish this point, yes, because I was just about

1:22:09.200 --> 1:22:10.439
<v Speaker 2>to say it was the exact same.

1:22:10.280 --> 1:22:13.720
<v Speaker 1>Thing where like it actually is people keeping track of it. Yes, yeah,

1:22:13.720 --> 1:22:16.120
<v Speaker 1>it's not robots. Yeah, it's just people.

1:22:16.000 --> 1:22:17.840
<v Speaker 2>And it is the same as the Tesla the things,

1:22:17.840 --> 1:22:20.080
<v Speaker 2>and it was just it's like the same way that

1:22:20.760 --> 1:22:22.559
<v Speaker 2>RC cars work. Yeah.

1:22:22.880 --> 1:22:25.679
<v Speaker 1>I just think it's very funny that, like it's been

1:22:26.720 --> 1:22:29.120
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and fifty years since more than it's been

1:22:29.120 --> 1:22:31.680
<v Speaker 1>two hundred and fifty years since the mechanical turk, and

1:22:32.040 --> 1:22:34.479
<v Speaker 1>Tesla was still doing a mechanical turk just as like

1:22:34.479 --> 1:22:37.600
<v Speaker 1>a better looking robot.

1:22:37.160 --> 1:22:41.120
<v Speaker 2>I would say, equally looking. I don't think those Tesla

1:22:41.400 --> 1:22:43.599
<v Speaker 2>bots are particularly cool looking.

1:22:43.880 --> 1:22:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, Lizzie, that that's our show that's the story. That's

1:22:47.400 --> 1:22:50.839
<v Speaker 1>the decade spanning story of them mechanicals.

1:22:50.840 --> 1:22:56.200
<v Speaker 2>That is an epic odyssey of chessness. Who would you

1:22:56.240 --> 1:22:57.439
<v Speaker 2>cast in the movie of this?

1:22:57.560 --> 1:23:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, I mean it's the obvious one. I'm

1:23:01.200 --> 1:23:04.000
<v Speaker 1>just think British period piece, but no need for it

1:23:04.000 --> 1:23:06.960
<v Speaker 1>to be British. It could be anyway. Timothy Shallamy always

1:23:06.960 --> 1:23:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Timothy Austin Butler, he has the juice.

1:23:09.280 --> 1:23:11.479
<v Speaker 2>I think Austin Butler would be good as the Turk.

1:23:11.680 --> 1:23:13.560
<v Speaker 2>As the Turk, he can do anything. He's kind of

1:23:13.600 --> 1:23:16.360
<v Speaker 2>weak up the Lord. He can do anything. Yes, he's

1:23:16.400 --> 1:23:20.640
<v Speaker 2>such a good creature that is built now. And maybe

1:23:20.840 --> 1:23:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Anthony Hopkins as an inventor of some kind. Damn, I

1:23:24.320 --> 1:23:27.040
<v Speaker 2>don't want that. It's pretty good, Lizzie. Where can the

1:23:27.040 --> 1:23:29.479
<v Speaker 2>good people find you? The good people can find us

1:23:29.520 --> 1:23:32.839
<v Speaker 2>as at Hoax the Podcast on Instagram and you can.

1:23:32.680 --> 1:23:36.639
<v Speaker 1>Email us at Hoax Thepodcast at gmail dot com.

1:23:36.920 --> 1:23:40.799
<v Speaker 2>If you know how to play chess, good for you.

1:23:40.880 --> 1:23:43.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's play online. I'll make a chess dot com

1:23:43.240 --> 1:23:46.400
<v Speaker 1>account and we can play. Email me or you know,

1:23:46.640 --> 1:23:49.479
<v Speaker 1>go on the Instagram, follow us and dm us here

1:23:49.560 --> 1:23:51.479
<v Speaker 1>chest log in and I'll play you online.

1:23:51.680 --> 1:23:52.759
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and I will watch.

1:23:54.640 --> 1:23:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for listening. Please, if you like

1:23:57.040 --> 1:24:00.000
<v Speaker 1>this podcast enjoy listening to it, please rate, review and subscribe,

1:24:00.040 --> 1:24:00.639
<v Speaker 1>vibe and.

1:24:00.680 --> 1:24:01.800
<v Speaker 2>Please hoax responsibly.

1:24:02.040 --> 1:24:12.080
<v Speaker 4>Bye.

1:24:12.760 --> 1:24:16.240
<v Speaker 2>Hoax is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our hosts are

1:24:16.320 --> 1:24:19.679
<v Speaker 2>Danas Schortz and Lizzie Logan. Our executive producers are Matt

1:24:19.680 --> 1:24:23.599
<v Speaker 2>Frederick and Trevor Young, with supervising producer Rima L. Kali

1:24:24.080 --> 1:24:27.519
<v Speaker 2>and producers Nomes Griffin and Jesse Funk. Our theme music

1:24:27.600 --> 1:24:31.520
<v Speaker 2>was composed by Laine Montgomery. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

1:24:31.640 --> 1:24:34.720
<v Speaker 2>visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1:24:34.720 --> 1:24:36.679
<v Speaker 2>your podcasts. Thanks for listening.