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Speaker 1: Well, can I tell you I'm Ricky, I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: meet you. I can't believe I'm doing this. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what I'm going to say. We never know what

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Speaker 1: is going to come out of my mouth. But that's

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Speaker 1: the beauty of it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to off the cup, my anti anxiety antidote. I

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Speaker 2: think we talk about this a lot on this show,

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Speaker 2: maybe more than anything else. Career arcs and how to

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Speaker 2: navigate them. It's all fun on the way up. But

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Speaker 2: what happens when there's a fork in the road, or

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Speaker 2: you start wanting to do something else, or people want

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Speaker 2: you to do something else. That's when the scary voices

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Speaker 2: can come in, isn't it? And you don't have a

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Speaker 2: linear career like my dad did. My dad started as

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Speaker 2: a stockboy in the warehouse of a paper plant when

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Speaker 2: he was in his teens. He worked his way into

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Speaker 2: the sales room of that same paper company, then into management,

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Speaker 2: and then he ended up being the vice president of

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Speaker 2: a Fortune five hundred company, this same company for forty years.

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Speaker 3: That's linear.

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Speaker 2: You know where you want to get, You want to

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Speaker 2: get up, you want to go up as far as

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Speaker 2: you can. My career is not like that. A lot

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Speaker 2: of people's careers aren't like that, and there are times

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Speaker 2: when you have a ton of options and a time

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Speaker 2: when your options get very limited where you just don't

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Speaker 2: like it anymore, and that's really hard.

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Speaker 3: Those moments are hard, I know.

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Speaker 2: Henry Winkler talked about that on the pod, sort of

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Speaker 2: the end of happy days and discovering a new chapter

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Speaker 2: of his life which would end up being producing until

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Speaker 2: he found.

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Speaker 3: His way back to acting.

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Speaker 2: Mark Duplas talked about that on the pod. He became

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Speaker 2: a really big deal and then people started pulling him

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Speaker 2: in odd directions, And I've talked about it being at

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Speaker 2: a point in my career where I'm a little I'm

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Speaker 2: a little lost. My next guest has lived like one

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Speaker 2: hundred different lives, and I'm so interested in how she

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Speaker 2: navigated all of it while tending to her mental health

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Speaker 2: and her physical health and dealing with all the things

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Speaker 2: that can come at a person.

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Speaker 3: She's incredibly talented.

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Speaker 2: She was probably in your living room in the nineties

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Speaker 2: like she was mine. She's an award winning actress of

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Speaker 2: projects like Hairspray and Serial Mom and others. She was

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Speaker 2: the youngest talk show host at the time to have

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Speaker 2: her own show, a hit daytime talk show that ran

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Speaker 2: for eleven years. She's a documentary filmmaker and author, a podcaster,

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Speaker 2: and like seventeen other things.

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Speaker 3: I'm serious. Welcome to Off the Cup, Ricky Lake. Oh

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Speaker 3: my gosh, it's such an honor. I'm so happy to

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Speaker 3: be here. I'm so happy that you're here.

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Speaker 2: You're so wise and you're so honest, and this is

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Speaker 2: a great combination.

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Speaker 3: I don't feel wise all the time. That's why you're great.

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Speaker 2: That's why you are because you've lived a lot of life.

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Speaker 2: You're honest about the life you've lived, the challenges you've had,

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Speaker 2: and you talk openly and honestly about them and the

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Speaker 2: things you've found that have helped you. This is wisdom.

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Speaker 2: Wisdom is collected after experience. It's not reading a book.

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Speaker 3: You have it, thank you, and you offer it to

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Speaker 3: people on your podcast. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well I'm not doing a podcast anymore. I did it

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Speaker 1: for two years, so I did it. Yeah, So that

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Speaker 1: was one thing. But I've been just very sort of

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Speaker 1: outspoken and transparent my entire career, particularly of late to

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Speaker 1: have social media, you know, I've just like worn it

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Speaker 1: all on my sleeve, warts and all, and I've been

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Speaker 1: through a lot, and yet I always find.

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Speaker 3: The good on the other side. I do.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how I do that because it but

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Speaker 1: it just seems to happen over and over again. I'm

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Speaker 1: definitely one of resilience and an optimist, and I'm curious

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Speaker 1: and I want to know, Like I don't know what's

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Speaker 1: going to come tomorrow as far as anything in my life,

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Speaker 1: and I welcome whatever comes my way.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I need to get into your headspace, and we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about how to do that, because I'm

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Speaker 2: not in your headspace.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I'm an optimist.

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Speaker 2: I'm definitely resilient and I get myself to the to

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Speaker 2: the next place. But it's hard. It's really hard for me. Well,

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Speaker 2: we'll get into that. But the first thing I have

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Speaker 2: to ask you about, because I saw your social media recently,

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Speaker 2: You're in a Lizzo song.

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Speaker 1: I oh, yeah, yeah, someone just told me that and

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Speaker 1: I found it with my husband.

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Speaker 3: I know, and actually, well there's I've been mentioned in

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Speaker 3: a lot of songs, like I looked them up. You did.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's crazy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know when you look at the show,

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Speaker 1: clearly it's not me personally, it's the show.

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Speaker 3: It's like it's it's your name's on the show. You

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Speaker 3: have a show, I.

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Speaker 1: Know, but it's like what that show represented and who

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Speaker 1: I was at that time, So I get it. It

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Speaker 1: was definitely a phenomenon of that decade and then some

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Speaker 1: and I have reverence for it in the way that

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Speaker 1: I never did when I did the show. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's very cool to be in my fifties and to

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Speaker 1: still feel somewhat relevant with the young people.

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Speaker 2: You know, relevant like you're being reintroduced to young people

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Speaker 2: through all of these pop culture songs and references.

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Speaker 3: It's so cool.

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Speaker 1: It's really cool. No, I definitely am like stoked. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what the reference meant.

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Speaker 3: Actually, I listened to it to and I don't I

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Speaker 3: don't mean though. And then there was another song last year.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna blank on who the singer was, but like

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Speaker 1: Nicki Mi NAUJ mean like its offspring a lot of them.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's a bunch. There's some Hole in the

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Speaker 3: Head by Sugababes, and there's an Israeli singer named Neda.

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Speaker 1: She has a song called Ricky Lake What Meghanie Sallion

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Speaker 1: that's the one and what's the name of that song?

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Speaker 1: It's money, money good.

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Speaker 3: You love that song?

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Speaker 2: Actually spring pretty for a white guy.

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Speaker 3: The go on on, it's crazy. That's amazing though, I mean, no.

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Speaker 1: You know what's amazing when you get to be a

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Speaker 1: question on Jeopardy, that's amazing.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I've got a passion on Jeopardy.

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Speaker 1: I've also was on Jeopardy Puzzle you were on the right,

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Speaker 1: I saw you.

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Speaker 3: Yes, did you not win? Well? I did? Thanks for

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Speaker 3: asking them. But that is.

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Speaker 2: That feels like that feels for me that was the top,

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Speaker 2: Like I'm on Jeopardy. I'm I'm a clue in Jeopardy

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Speaker 2: Like that's.

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Speaker 1: That's yeah, No, And all of it is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: pinch me moments because I'm a kid that wanted to

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Speaker 1: be famous.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let's go there, because I like to start with

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Speaker 3: what were you like as a kid, And how'd you

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Speaker 3: get this bug? Okay?

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Speaker 1: So I've always had it. So I'm I'm fifty six

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Speaker 1: years old and I grew up watching you know. I

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Speaker 1: love Lucy's Shirley Temple. I saw Annie on Broadway side

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Speaker 1: a grandma that would take me to theater in the

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Speaker 1: ballet and the opera here in New York a lot

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Speaker 1: and that, like she died when I was nine, but

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Speaker 1: she sort of just showed me culture and arts.

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Speaker 3: And I saw Annie when I.

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Speaker 1: Was like about seven years old the original cast with

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Speaker 1: Andrew mccartell. Sarah Tisca Parker was the understudy, and I

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Speaker 1: met her backstage right, Okay, she came up to me

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Speaker 1: actually and like said, hey, I'm her understudy.

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Speaker 3: Do you want my autograph too? And I was like,

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Speaker 3: uh huh uh huh amazing.

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Speaker 2: And I don't tell you like Aleen Quinn in the

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Speaker 2: movie version was your It was, I mean life changing

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Speaker 2: for me. I thought when I turned five, my hair

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Speaker 2: was going to turn red and curly because you look

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Speaker 2: like her and curly I see it. Well, that's going

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Speaker 2: to happen to me. It was very important to me.

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Speaker 3: Annie. Yeah, me too. I did Were you a singer?

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Speaker 3: Did you? I thought I was okay and a dancer?

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, Well yeah, so I you know, I got

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Speaker 1: the bug and wanting to be I wanted all eyes on,

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Speaker 1: I wanted applause. I wanted to win over a crowd

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. I didn't know what it meant to

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Speaker 1: actually be famous. And lucky for me, you know. John

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Speaker 1: Waters discovered me when I was eighteen years old. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't a freshman at Ithaca College and I was finishing

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Speaker 1: up my first year, a miserable year as a musical

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Speaker 1: theater major, where.

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Speaker 3: I didn't get cast in anything.

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Speaker 1: I was told by my advisor that I wasn't talented,

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Speaker 1: that I wouldn't make it, that I should come up

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Speaker 1: with another like a turn, a U turn or whatever, right,

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Speaker 1: a pivot, and then John I just, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's like divine literally pun intended, divine,

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Speaker 1: divine intervention, like the fact that I was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be there on that day, not far from.

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Speaker 3: This this this way. Where did he discover you?

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Speaker 1: It was in midtown at a casting director's office, and

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Speaker 1: it was at an open open call. I had heard

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Speaker 1: about it and I went and met him on the

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Speaker 1: first audition.

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Speaker 3: Didn't know who John Waters was. I didn't know anything.

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Speaker 1: I was super green, never been around openly gay people.

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Speaker 1: I was just very sheltered at that age. And it's

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Speaker 1: either saying it's a John Waters movie and it was

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Speaker 1: a factirl who could dance, and I just was like

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Speaker 1: definitely fat, definitely I fit the mold, and I can

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Speaker 1: kind of I can at least at least fake dancing.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I was that I was I still

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Speaker 1: am that character, right I you know, and I think

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Speaker 1: that has been such in now a gift is like

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Speaker 1: there's there's no words, honestly, because it opened every door

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Speaker 1: for me. He managed to sort of mentor me in

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Speaker 1: a way that I've stayed really pretty grounded though through

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Speaker 1: the years and normal, very normal, and and hair's by

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Speaker 1: the character. You know that that that character that just

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Speaker 1: lives on and on and on is such like just

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Speaker 1: such a a touchstone for so many people. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's it's it's been such an amazing thing to

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Speaker 1: start my career there and only build on it. Like

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Speaker 1: I love that I didn't peek at eighteen, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, and I still feel like I, well, that's not true.

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Speaker 3: I do feel like I've peaked.

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Speaker 1: I do feel at peaked I have and everything else

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Speaker 1: is gravy like like I I love.

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Speaker 3: Like the reinventions that I've had.

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Speaker 1: I've I thrived myself on just trying new things, proving

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Speaker 1: myself to myself and to others that I can like

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Speaker 1: make a documentary that's going to actually kind of change

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 3: You know, Yes I did that, Yes, you know.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, so I'm just I've loved every aspect of

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Speaker 1: my career. I'm lucky that I've made made a lot

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Speaker 1: of money doing the talk show back in the day

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Speaker 1: that I don't have to do anything at this point

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Speaker 1: to put food on the table.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I love my life.

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Speaker 1: I love every all the good and all the trauma

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Speaker 1: and and you know, the hardship, because it's really I've

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Speaker 1: evolved into a better version of myself through that.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I don't we don't know each other, but I

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Speaker 2: can see that. I can see this. I can see

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Speaker 2: you're happy and healthy. I can see it in your face.

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Speaker 3: You look like a happy, healthy person. Thank you. I

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Speaker 3: mean it's obvious. And my aura ring says, so, well,

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Speaker 3: then it's science back. My sleep is great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, and it's it's like I literally I lost

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Speaker 1: my house and everything in it six months ago, like

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Speaker 1: only six months ago in the Palisades five in Malibu,

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Speaker 1: and that trauma, Like I cannot believe that I'm in

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Speaker 1: such a happy place.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just six months later.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that that's because you had already done

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Speaker 2: some work on yourself to get yourself to a place

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Speaker 2: where you could survive this and it wouldn't upend your

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Speaker 2: entire life or do you think you kind of figured

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Speaker 2: it out on the fly.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, it's actually not my first

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Speaker 1: fire that I know. So I had another house fire

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Speaker 1: in twenty ten. Yeah, this one was like that was

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Speaker 1: a rental. Yeah, that was a rental that I actually

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Speaker 1: actually accidentally set the fire.

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Speaker 3: I mean it wasn't it wasn't negligent. I didn't do

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Speaker 3: anything wrong.

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Speaker 1: It was just a device I was using blew up

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Speaker 1: and exploded anyway.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so this was not my first fire.

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Speaker 1: But I think having true partnership, having like my circumstances

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Speaker 1: of losing your house is like the worst thing ever.

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Speaker 3: But I didn't have small children.

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Speaker 1: If I had small children and I was you know,

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Speaker 1: like that would be a whole different thing.

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Speaker 3: If you know, I didn't have a partner.

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Speaker 1: I have like this amazing husband who we did this

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Speaker 1: together and got through it, you know, so, and I had,

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Speaker 1: like I like the things that that I made it

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Speaker 1: easier for made it made it much easier. But it's

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Speaker 1: still it's still it's still I can't believe my house

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Speaker 1: that was twelve miles from the initial start of the

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Speaker 1: Palisades Fire.

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Speaker 3: It came twelve miles through the densely populated village of Palisa,

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Speaker 3: the Palisades. I mean, I just still can't believe that

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Speaker 3: is a reality. Yeah, it's so crazy.

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine it either. And it's I was gonna

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Speaker 2: say it's funny. It's not funny, but when you it's

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Speaker 2: interesting when you look back at the shit you survive

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Speaker 2: and you're like, how am I still standing? And I'm

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Speaker 2: not just still standing, I'm doing great, and like I'm

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Speaker 2: stronger than I may have thought. And I know when

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Speaker 2: I was at my worst with my mental health struggles

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Speaker 2: and my anxiety, I was always trying to predict the

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Speaker 2: awful thing because if I could predict it, maybe it

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Speaker 2: wouldn't happen.

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Speaker 3: That's irrational.

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Speaker 2: But also if I could predict it, at least I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised, and I wouldn't get that physical, you know,

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Speaker 2: physiological surprise reaction that is so traumatizing. Yeah, but then

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Speaker 2: the thing happens. Yeah, nothing prepares you, no, all the

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Speaker 2: wheels you spin in your head, nothing prepares you no.

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Speaker 1: With the fire, I mean, I was in my closet,

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Speaker 1: like when it was we stayed so our whole story

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people have been following that we

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Speaker 1: stayed to fight the fire because we had equipment that

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Speaker 1: we had been trained to use. We had least so

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Speaker 1: that we could use our pool water to ride fire

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Speaker 1: hoses and spread it out around and that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the fire we were told would come over and if

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Speaker 1: it came over her house, it would be half an

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Speaker 1: hour and then you put the embers out when you know,

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Speaker 1: when the classes right. This was a different kind of fire,

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Speaker 1: and so we ended up leaving late. We left eight hour,

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Speaker 1: eight o'clock at night, so it started ten thirty in

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Speaker 1: the morning. We were out of there by eight o'clock

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Speaker 1: at night, and we didn't pack because we were planning

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Speaker 1: to stay right and I could have anyway. I just

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Speaker 1: kicked myself with the things I didn't get out of

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Speaker 1: that house. And well, my hairspray script that was signed

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Speaker 1: by every actor in the cast, my dress, you know,

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Speaker 1: like all the mementos and my career and stuff.

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Speaker 3: That's one thing.

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Speaker 1: But then my photo albums, my grandparents photo albums, my

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Speaker 1: kids photo albums, my you know, just my juice, like

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Speaker 1: my not now my fine Julia I did grab my

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Speaker 1: fine jewelry. But my my, my, all my other things,

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Speaker 1: all this stuff, my my husband who passed away. The

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Speaker 1: list goes on and on. If I go down there,

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Speaker 1: I go kind of dark, you know. But we're lucky,

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Speaker 1: we are, you know, well everything in the milder, Yes, exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got my dog and my husband and your dog

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Speaker 1: is Dolly.

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Speaker 3: That's wild. So it's mine crazy. But yeah, we discussed this.

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Speaker 3: But but my mine is Dolly Parton.

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Speaker 1: Yes, mine, the Dolly Mama. But but Dolly Parton. I mean,

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Speaker 1: come on, it's a great name regards.

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Speaker 3: It's amazing. Whenever you got there. What kind of dog

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Speaker 3: is it? She's a black lab? Black lab? Okay, mine's

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Speaker 3: a little white rescue monster.

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Speaker 1: My favorite thing to do in New York City, besides

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Speaker 1: seeing my son's is to go to Central Park before

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Speaker 1: nine o'clock for the off leash hours.

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Speaker 3: It is. It is heaven. If I can't be in Malibu,

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Speaker 3: I'm happy to be there. I'm a little mad at

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Speaker 3: my dog today. Uh oh uh oh, I told earlier,

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Speaker 3: but you're not over it. I'm not over it. My

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Speaker 3: dog brought me a mouse today in my bedroom. I

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Speaker 3: believe you said rat It was a mouse.

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Speaker 2: It was tiny, and this was bad because I didn't

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Speaker 2: know she had brought it to me.

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Speaker 3: I was in my bedroom. She put it at the

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Speaker 3: foot of the bed. I didn't know it was there.

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Speaker 2: I'm writing on the bed, like I'm on my computer

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Speaker 2: on the bed. I step off the bed and my foot,

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Speaker 2: my barefoot, Ricky steps on this little mouse.

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Speaker 3: It's between my toes. It's squishy.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, I don't know why you didn't cancel. I would

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Speaker 1: have been totally fine if you had to cancel on

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Speaker 1: me because of that.

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Speaker 3: I know, I know.

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Speaker 2: I thought I'll have to burn my foot off, Like

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Speaker 2: how do I how do I go on with this knowledge?

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Speaker 2: Like this is in my brain now that this happened, Doc,

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Speaker 2: and he'll go.

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Speaker 3: Dolly needs Dolly.

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Speaker 2: Dolly needs to learn a lesson about what's inside behavior

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Speaker 2: and outside.

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Speaker 3: I want to go back to Hairspray and then the

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Speaker 3: talk show.

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Speaker 2: Where do you get And maybe you don't, but the

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Speaker 2: confidence at such a young age to take on this

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Speaker 2: role in Hairspray and then take on this role on

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Speaker 2: your eponymous talk show. You're so young, and sometimes that

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Speaker 2: inoculates you from it.

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Speaker 3: The things that we know now that we would worry about.

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Speaker 3: You didn't know to worry.

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Speaker 1: I was younger than both my children are now are now. Yes,

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Speaker 1: my youngest is twenty four. He just turned twenty four.

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Speaker 1: I got the job when I was twenty.

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Speaker 3: Three, and I get wild. How did that happen?

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Speaker 1: So I was a very frequent guest on David Letterman

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Speaker 1: back in the day, so as me and sort of

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Speaker 1: Sandra Bernhard, you know at the time. And so when

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Speaker 1: guests would fall out, they would bring me in because

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Speaker 1: for some reason he liked me.

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Speaker 3: I was really a good talker.

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Speaker 1: I was, I don't know what it was about me,

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Speaker 1: but a producer that was looking to cast for a

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Speaker 1: younger talk show. Garthan Seer is the brilliant is the

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Speaker 1: brilliant mind behind my show. He came up with the concept.

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Speaker 1: He was working with Barry Diller and you know, at

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Speaker 1: NBC whatever. He came up with the concept of you know,

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Speaker 1: after looking at the demos of talk shows of that time,

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Speaker 1: Phil Donahue, Oprah Sally, they all skewed over the age

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Speaker 1: of fifty. So he wanted to tap into the eighty nine,

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Speaker 1: eighteen to thirty four, eighteen to forty nine. Of course,

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking like my NAPPI ling lingo, and so I

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Speaker 1: was one of one hundred women that they auditioned or

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Speaker 1: came in to meet and it was like literally I

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Speaker 1: went in.

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Speaker 3: It was on the Fox lot. So I thought I

378
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Speaker 3: was not working at that time. I was.

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Speaker 1: My phone was not ringing, and I went on. Someone

380
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Speaker 1: called me again. It's like on a whim. Just called

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Speaker 1: me and told me to come in. I was like,

382
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Speaker 1: all right, it's on the Fox lot. It has to

383
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 1: be maybe legit. And I flirted with three handsome gay men.

384
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Speaker 3: And I wore a hat. I wore a.

385
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Speaker 1: Hat, and I was, you know, just like whatever, whatever.

386
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Speaker 1: I had that quality that they were looking for, and

387
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Speaker 1: they picked me to do the pilot and I was

388
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Speaker 1: like at the time, I needed the money so badly.

389
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Speaker 1: I was like, I'll do it for five thousand dollars,

390
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,240
Speaker 1: you know. And then and then my agent stepped in and.

391
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Speaker 3: Kind of made a deal.

392
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Speaker 1: But it was it was unbelievable because like, who am

393
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Speaker 1: I How presumptuous to think I could be in that

394
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Speaker 1: role of having this platform with all you know, and

395
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Speaker 1: I mean I had no sense of who I was

396
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:07,399
Speaker 1: back then.

397
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Speaker 2: But you stepped into it. It'll be different from your

398
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Speaker 2: point of view. From my point of view an audience member,

399
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Speaker 2: a young girl, We're only ten years apart. I think

400
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 2: for a lot of us, you were like an older sister.

401
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,280
Speaker 2: We were watching you stepped into it very naturally. On

402
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Speaker 2: our side of it.

403
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Speaker 3: It was oh, totally, totally. And to answer your question

404
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,720
Speaker 3: about how I got up the courage.

405
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Speaker 1: It's like, it's like this, it's naivete.

406
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:33,320
Speaker 3: You know, you don't know no.

407
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,119
Speaker 1: And it's like if they think they can that I

408
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:36,119
Speaker 1: can do this, you believe them.

409
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Speaker 3: I can do it.

410
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,439
Speaker 1: If John Waters picked me to be the girl that

411
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,680
Speaker 1: gets the guy, I can do it. I had never

412
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Speaker 1: had sex when I did hairspray, or had been the

413
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,480
Speaker 1: object really of any boys at that point, and so

414
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:47,320
Speaker 1: I'm like having.

415
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:48,760
Speaker 3: To be the girl that gets the guy from the

416
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:50,920
Speaker 3: hot little number. I'm like, okay.

417
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Speaker 1: And it's like a mind trick almost that I would

418
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Speaker 1: talk to me kind of like you with your mental

419
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Speaker 1: health and like like foreseeing the worst so.

420
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Speaker 3: That it doesn't put you in a panic attack.

421
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Speaker 1: I think I do kind of the same thing where

422
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Speaker 1: it's like I all right, he thinks I'm this girl

423
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 1: Tracy Turnlet Okay. I am like I can just will it.

424
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:08,960
Speaker 1: And I did that with the talk show. In the beginning,

425
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Speaker 1: I would channel Oprah like I honestly didn't know.

426
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Speaker 3: I was a big fan of her friend R. Yeah.

427
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 3: I was just like, what would Oprah say? What would

428
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Speaker 3: Oprah do?

429
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Speaker 1: And and then I sort of found my sea legs

430
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Speaker 1: and I just was really a good listener and I

431
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,959
Speaker 1: really am curious about people, and I love you know,

432
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 1: relationship stuff, and I and then I you know, I

433
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 1: was really good at like the timing and being able

434
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,080
Speaker 1: to pull out the macarry yeah, and and keep the conflict,

435
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,400
Speaker 1: like keep the conflict, stop it, take commercial break because

436
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:35,160
Speaker 1: I didn't wear an EFV.

437
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,480
Speaker 3: That's one of the things I am most proud of.

438
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,120
Speaker 3: So you're out there on your own, on my own,

439
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 3: I entirely. And they wanted me to.

440
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:42,680
Speaker 1: They wanted control of me, and I didn't want to

441
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,640
Speaker 1: be distracted by them feeding me stuff in the control room.

442
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to be I know the story I'm telling,

443
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,399
Speaker 1: I know you know, and I know, yeah, so I refuse.

444
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 1: And it was a little bit of a thing with

445
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,440
Speaker 1: Garth and me for a few years and I.

446
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,919
Speaker 3: Was like, no, it's working like like this. Yeah. So

447
00:18:58,800 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 3: it was all me.

448
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,679
Speaker 1: But yet, like I said, I became a better and

449
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,840
Speaker 1: better in meet the older I got, the more life

450
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:05,720
Speaker 1: experience I had.

451
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 3: When you were in the height of the Ricky Lake Show,

452
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 3: did you think I want to do this forever? No?

453
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,879
Speaker 2: Okay, no, When did it start creeping in that you

454
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 2: wanted to try something else?

455
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 1: It wasn't that. It was actually nine to eleven that

456
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 1: that ended. I mean, my contract was coming to an end.

457
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,119
Speaker 1: I had, like I renegotiated a couple of times, and

458
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 1: overall I did an eleven year run. And at the

459
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 1: year nine, it looked like it was just going to

460
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 1: go one more year. And nine to eleven happened. And

461
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 1: I watched it like I was downtown in my West

462
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,480
Speaker 1: Village apartment. I've just had my home birth water birth

463
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,400
Speaker 1: two months before, so in this like sacred space where

464
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,440
Speaker 1: I felt my most powerful, my most like I am

465
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 1: a goddess warrior, I can do anything. And two months later,

466
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: you know, with my four year old and my two

467
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,960
Speaker 1: month old, I watched the plane fly down the Hudson

468
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,159
Speaker 1: and so that tripped me into like I didn't think

469
00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:59,439
Speaker 1: I was going to I didn't think we were going

470
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 1: to live. I thought it was end of the world,

471
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 1: which we've all probably thought of, and I made some

472
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 1: quick decisions in that moment. I had an epiphany that

473
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,159
Speaker 1: I'm changing things like I am literally like and so

474
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to get out of my show. I wanted

475
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:12,879
Speaker 1: to get out of my marriage, and I wanted to

476
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 1: move out of New York.

477
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 3: That's a lot at once. It was a lot, and

478
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 3: it took a while.

479
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 1: It took like things had to happen, and I had

480
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,440
Speaker 1: to finish my contract with the show.

481
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 3: But that's why.

482
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,719
Speaker 1: So it was after nine to eleven and thinking I

483
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 1: was going to that was the end. I really wanted

484
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,679
Speaker 1: to soul search about where I could be even more

485
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 1: impactful because the show was very impactful in a lot

486
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 1: of ways for a lot of people, but it wasn't

487
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: really my voice. I was I was, I mean, it

488
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 1: was it was me on that show, but I wasn't producing,

489
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,359
Speaker 1: I wasn't picking the topics, I wasn't booking the show.

490
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,360
Speaker 1: So I wanted to do something that was more personal

491
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 1: that something I was super passionate about. And I was

492
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 1: really passionate about my birth experiences and midwif free care

493
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 1: and you know, C section rates and why you know,

494
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 1: so I said, that's so, that's the avenue I went.

495
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: I made the Business of being Born after that.

496
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,160
Speaker 3: How scary was that it wasn't because I didn't know

497
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 3: what I was getting myself into. Lookay from walking away from.

498
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 1: The show, like okay, so I am not someone that

499
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: needs to have Oprah money or a plane or I

500
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 1: mean that would be nice, right, I am not.

501
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 3: Driven by your face sometimes where no, I.

502
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: Don't care about being relevant like I I just yeah,

503
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 1: I was. I was done, and I felt really bad

504
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 1: because there was a lot of crew and staff like

505
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 1: their jobs were affected by it. But I finished my

506
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 1: contract and I kind of it wasn't just me like

507
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 1: saying I quit, it was it kind of it didn't

508
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 1: happen again because I was moving to LA and it

509
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: just kind of went away. And I feel very complete,

510
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't have been able to reinvent and do

511
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 1: the next thing I did, which the Business of being

512
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 1: Born is by far the thing I'm.

513
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 3: Most proud of of my entire personally, by far, by far.

514
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 1: And it was my own money, and it was you know,

515
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: and I didn't expect it to have the impact that

516
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I was hoping it was going to be

517
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:54,680
Speaker 1: impactful because it was something I.

518
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 3: Really cared it was. I mean it was it still is.

519
00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: Like I get stopped at least a couple times a

520
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 1: week of women just like are in tears of how

521
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 1: that movie held wound and yeah, just led them to

522
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 1: a new career, led them to have their baby on

523
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: their own turn, whatever, whatever it is. It's like, Wow,

524
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 1: this is where I wanted to leave my mark, you know,

525
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: more than anything.

526
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,239
Speaker 2: Did you have agents or managers saying, listen, once you

527
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 2: step out of the limelight, once you step out of

528
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 2: daytime talk or.

529
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 3: It's going to be really hard to get back in. No,

530
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 3: because it wasn't hard to go back in.

531
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 1: I went back and did another show because so after

532
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,679
Speaker 1: I did the Business of Being More and I saw

533
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: the ripple effect of that and the respect I got

534
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: from that and the critical acclaim of that film, and

535
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: it was just so personal and it was like I said,

536
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: it was all my own money.

537
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 3: It took four years to make, No one would help

538
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 3: us make it.

539
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 1: My brilliant director Abby Epstein and I exposed ourselves.

540
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 3: I mean, she she has her baby in the you know,

541
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 3: it was so personal to see like the positives come

542
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 3: out of.

543
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: It at first, they attacked us. The AMA came after us,

544
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: a COG came after me. They targeted me in a

545
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 1: resolution that I that like home birth is the latest

546
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: cause to leb you know whatever, Ricky Lake has blood

547
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: on her hand. I mean, they were saying really crazy,

548
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: crazy thing got but I was.

549
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 3: I lost my train of thought. I lost my train

550
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 3: of thought, which but it was easy.

551
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: Because I'm in perimenopause. I still get my period. But

552
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: I am and I'm fifty six. But I I the brain.

553
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 3: Fog, the brain fog and the cannabis and the cannabis.

554
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: I have to say, cannabis may be contributing a little

555
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: bit to my you know, flighty.

556
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 3: Train of thought. I got it. I got it.

557
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: So you were you could because of the impact of

558
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 2: that film, you were able to step back into TV.

559
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I went back to do a second talk show,

560
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: and that, you know, I wanted to do more of

561
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: a Phil Donna Who, even though I can't claim to

562
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 1: be anywhere near as smart as Phil Donna Who, but

563
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: that was the kind of show the vibe I wanted

564
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: to do. It's more like elevated content, not dumbing down

565
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: the audience. I want to have real conversations about things

566
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: like that people feel good, like like we'll learn something

567
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: from or be you know. So it's just we were

568
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 1: not on the same The company wasn't with me on that.

569
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: And I did win the Emmy. Yes, I was canceled.

570
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 3: That was so crazy because it was it was.

571
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: It was ridiculous because I didn't even submit myself, like

572
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: I didn't even because the show was canceled, like Steve

573
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 1: Harvey was the darling of that year, right, and all

574
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 1: these other people had hit shows, and so I was nominated.

575
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, and I had a trip to

576
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:16,959
Speaker 3: a za.

577
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: I was going with my my then husband, my second husband, Christian,

578
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: to a Visa, which is where we like to go

579
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: all summer. And my friend is like, you're you're gonna win,

580
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I am not gonna wait, I'm.

581
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 3: Not canceling my trip. I'm going on vacation.

582
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: Sure enough, in the morning, my phone was blowing up

583
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 1: in a Visa and.

584
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 3: I was like, I won, I won? What? Oh? I

585
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 3: forgot all about it. That's amazing. But it was. Yeah,

586
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 3: it was awesome.

587
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: So the talk the daytime talk space was very crowded

588
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 2: in the nineties.

589
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 3: You know, Jenny Jones and Montel. They were literally like

590
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 3: over one hundred, two hundreds.

591
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: It seemed like everyone had one. Yeah, And since then,

592
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,479
Speaker 2: I mean, it feels like America kind of turned on

593
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 2: on tabloid talk a little bit. But I mean it

594
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 2: still wants that that interaction. But a lot of people

595
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 2: since then have tried it and failed. A lot of

596
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: like very talented you know, my colleague Anderson Cooper, Katie Couric,

597
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: Chris Jenner, Bethany. You know, you can name a lot

598
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 2: of people who have a lot of fans and a

599
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 2: lot of promise and potential tried it and failed.

600
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 3: What did you have that they don't.

601
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: We were the first to do something that hadn't been

602
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: done before, So I was the youngest, and our it

603
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: was it was it was not a stick shick is

604
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: not the right word.

605
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 3: It was gimmick, our thing, our wheels and angle.

606
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: Yes, my words, I got you awful, I honestly, I

607
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: really really. That's the only side effect of perimanopopause that

608
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: bothers me is like my my words sometimes don't come together.

609
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 3: But but for for our show.

610
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: Like we took our show, every topic was taken from

611
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: the younger person's perspective.

612
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 3: Right right, So, Oprah, would you have a clear mission?

613
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 3: That was it.

614
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: We wanted to give the marginalized, the young, the unrepresented.

615
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: We wanted to give them, you know, a voice and

616
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: a platform for them to be heard. And I, you know,

617
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 1: I treated everyone with respect. We had a lot of fun.

618
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: It was a feel good show. It was not like

619
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: a gotcha show. It wasn't you know. And I really

620
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: I really liked Jerry Springer as a part, Like he

621
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: was a really nice man. They're you know, they're all

622
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: so everyone had their own sort of lane.

623
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 3: Right.

624
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: We were doing something that hadn't been done before. And

625
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: I think because of my background with John Waters, because

626
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: I was the fat girl who, you know, the darling,

627
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: I think people related to me.

628
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 3: They trusted me, they were rooting for me.

629
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: They know I'm like an ally and so people would

630
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: opened up to me and and it was it was

631
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: great And I'm honored that I was like well received

632
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: in that role and that that led That was like

633
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: the foundation for me to put out the provocative, you

634
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: know content that I've created since.

635
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 2: And in twenty ten, you Phil Donahue, Sally Jesse, Geraldo

636
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 2: and Montel All go on, Oprah, Yes, I mean, it's

637
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 2: a Mount Rushmore plus what was that like?

638
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 3: It was? It was? It was complet completely surreal. I

639
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 3: can't even imagine.

640
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: And I had just fallen in love with my new partner, Christian,

641
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: so I had just like we had just got I

642
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: just had this house fire, his first house fire in

643
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: twenty ten. And I did Oprah like in October, and

644
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: they did the b roll at my house. I was

645
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: living in bretwe at the time, and they did this

646
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: be roll and they're talking about my new relationship and

647
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I don't.

648
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 3: Know, it's very new.

649
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: I'll I will find out if I'm still if I'm

650
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: still with him when I come on the show. And

651
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: then I went to the show a couple weeks later

652
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: or whatever, and I said, yes, I'm in love with

653
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: him on the show, like he heard me say I'm

654
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: in love with him on Oprah.

655
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 3: But anyway, it was like it was amazing.

656
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: It was to hang out like like off off camera

657
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: with Phil Donahue and Oprah. And and she had a

658
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: bunch of like barbecue I remember in the back and

659
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: I have a picture of her me behind her smiling

660
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: and she's like eating a rib.

661
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, but to be canonized, it was I

662
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: know that way.

663
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 3: I know, I know, it's like my life is like

664
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 3: a movie.

665
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: It is literally like Tracy Turnblad, like she becomes famous.

666
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: I still feel like I'm that girl, and I can't

667
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 1: believe like I'm.

668
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 3: In the room, you know, amazing. When something ends that's

669
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 3: important to you, maybe.

670
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: The birthing film or the talk show or a movie project,

671
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 2: do you feel like, Okay, I'm gonna relax, I'm going

672
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: to take a break, or are you thinking about what's next?

673
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 3: What's the next thing and how do I get there?

674
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 1: I am never really thinking about talk to me about

675
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: this because this is not my personality at all.

676
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 3: Really. Now I am well, maybe I'm lazy. I don't know.

677
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: I like I said before, I feel very much complete

678
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: with what I've done in the world, Like I've made

679
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: enough money, i have won different awards.

680
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 3: I've been had an impasse, I've been they had a

681
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 3: very obvious impact in a number of arenas.

682
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: Yes, and you know, I mean, I think so much

683
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: of my life is like spent having to recover from

684
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: some kind of trauma, whether it was like Christian, my

685
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: partner who passed in twenty seventeen, of mental illness and suicide. Yes,

686
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: I feel like so much of that time. I have

687
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: to take this time to kind of find myself again

688
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: and heal. And that was the whole thing of itself.

689
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 3: Now with this.

690
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: Fire, it's like finding a new place to live and

691
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: making that a home and so and I'm really content

692
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: with just really hanging out with my beautiful partner getting high,

693
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, I like, I mean, it's like the simple life.

694
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: I've raised my kids like I've i and there's still

695
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: my kids, but I like they're not a day to

696
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: day driving them to school and whatever. It's really like

697
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: me time and I love it, like I love I

698
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: love it. I love that I'm not on the air anymore.

699
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: Like I love that I don't have to deal with

700
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: what's going on the climate that we're living in.

701
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: It is, it is really, it really affects me.

702
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm but I'm not like, I'm just very

703
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: like I'm quiet about my opinions. I don't want to

704
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: alienate anybody. Yeah, I mean, I'm also open and I'm

705
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: right like going to hide, but I'm just grateful that

706
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: like my heyday on TV was going to it's not

707
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: to Yeah, it was it was twenty years ago.

708
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: It's awful.

709
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I know, I know, I feel for you.

710
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: I was like, I I'm so grateful, grateful.

711
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm not retired.

712
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: I am not retired, but I'm also not like I'm

713
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: not thinking about where's the next project?

714
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: When am I going to be back? Yeah? Well that's

715
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 3: a great place to be in.

716
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 4: You know.

717
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: I'm I'm writing a book now on my mental health,

718
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: as my listeners know, and it's it's really hard not

719
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: not being vulnerable because I've never promised I'm perfect. That

720
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: part's easy for me. The part that's hard is telling

721
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: a story. I don't tell stories about myself. I tell

722
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: stories about other people. It's what I have done for

723
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: twenty years, you know, talking exposing myself and writing about myself.

724
00:30:55,320 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 2: It's a very personal, obviously, but very I don't know,

725
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: it's a really intense propories.

726
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 3: It's really scary. And I imagine, you know, when you're

727
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 3: on your.

728
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: Talk show talking to other people about their stories and

729
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: you're pulling those stories out right, That's what we're good at.

730
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 3: That's what we do. When you go to do the.

731
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: Birthing film and it's all, I mean, all of you right,

732
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: you're out.

733
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 3: There, yeah, naked giving birth? Right?

734
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: How hard was that to be? Like, Okay, I'm putting

735
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: this out there now, it's going to be out there forever.

736
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: If this is more of me than I was ever

737
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: comfortable sharing and people now have access to me in

738
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: a way that they maybe didn't before. Like, how did

739
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: you wrap your mind around that?

740
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I was again, I was compartmentalized because part

741
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: of me is like, ugh, you know, I had a

742
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: breast reduction, so I have scars on my breasts and

743
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: oh I'm two hundred pounds and oh I'm in my

744
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: bathteb and I don't have the good lighting.

745
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 3: But like that's beautiful. That's really powerful.

746
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: That is like I am so proud of that moment,

747
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: you know when I my midwife said it's on film

748
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: and then movie you know, reach out and pulled out Ricky,

749
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: reach out and pull pull down your pull out your baby.

750
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, I I mean yeah, and quite frankly, that's

751
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: the footage I have because basically stuff was lost in

752
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: the fire, like a lot of footage of that. So

753
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: anyway to answer your question, I mean it's a mix thing.

754
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: Like part of me is like a little you know,

755
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,719
Speaker 1: embarrassed that I don't look, you know, a certain way,

756
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: and then part of me is like, I own it.

757
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: And you know, I just came out about that I

758
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: had a necklift.

759
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 3: I just told the world I have nothing to hide,

760
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 3: I really know.

761
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: And you also talked about hair loss, and I feel

762
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 2: like to a lot of people that sounds trivial.

763
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 3: It is not. It was deeply, deeply I had health

764
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 3: issues with that you.

765
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 2: Talked about that, you were open about getting depressed and

766
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: almost feeling suicidal. Absolutely well, explain that a little bit

767
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 2: for people who'd think, but hair loss, who cares?

768
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: It's you know, it's so hard to tap into the

769
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: pain that I was in now that I'm sort of

770
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: on the other side because it's been many years. It

771
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: was six years ago, and at that time it had

772
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: been an issue throughout my life, like since I was

773
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: twenty six. Twenty six, I made a movie called Missus

774
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: Winterbourne and I went on a crash diet. The producers

775
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: put me on a diet and I lost a lot

776
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: of weight very short period of time by you know,

777
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: starving myself for the most part, and my hair shed

778
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: Three months after I changed my diet and I was

779
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: on TV doing my show and I was having to

780
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: do It's the year I cut my hair super super short, right,

781
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: So I think it was like season four, maybe season three.

782
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: I went forward to me more in Ghost, but I

783
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: didn't achieve that it was it was so far from

784
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: her haircut and that, but I was I was really

785
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: freaked out because I was having to be on TV,

786
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: having to have my hair messed with your a young

787
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: woman and I was a young woman, and being able

788
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: to see your scalp in the you know, in the

789
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: reflect in the light, in the mirror.

790
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 3: It was so upsetting and shameful, and I didn't know

791
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 3: what to do.

792
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: So as the years went on, and I would use

793
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: extensions and I had to color my hair every three weeks,

794
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: and because I had gray hair from the time, I

795
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: was in my early thirties, and so I was in

796
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: this routine and I was doing more and more damage

797
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: to my scalp, to my hair. And it was in

798
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: twenty we were coming up on twenty twenty, so it

799
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: was right before the pandemic, right, And I went away

800
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: with a boyfriend to Phoenix, Arizona, and I went in

801
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: a hudder balloon. I remember it was a few days

802
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: I just made the decision I'm going to shave my

803
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: head on the New Year's Day, like New Year's Eve,

804
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: day before the New decade, this whole thing of like

805
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: New Year, New decade.

806
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah.

807
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to be done with these extensions

808
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 1: and hair piece that I was wearing. I was wearing

809
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: this very unfortunate but very helpful apparatus on my head

810
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: for many years. So it's hard to describe. But it's

811
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: like they call it something and I can't think of

812
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: the name. Of course, I can't think of that.

813
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: What's the point of it?

814
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: The point of this is it basically so extensions would

815
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: pull your hair out from underneath and so my weak

816
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: hair would fall more from it. It would sit on

817
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,479
Speaker 1: the top of my head, so it had a fake

818
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: sort of hairline apart and fake bangs, and it was

819
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,439
Speaker 1: attached to my head from the top so it didn't pull,

820
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: but yet I didn't see the top.

821
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 3: It was like a wig, but not but less than

822
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 3: a wig. Anyway, I had been I was done with it.

823
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: I had been living in London doing a show, and

824
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: I brought had to bring my hairdresser with me because

825
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: I didn't want anyone touching my hair. I was super

826
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: neurotic about it and insecure cut too.

827
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm going to just is this too

828
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 3: long a story? I feel like it was. It brings

829
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 3: me back.

830
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: And I said, I made the decision I am going

831
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: to do this and I'm going to be public about

832
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 1: it because if I just shaved my head, people would

833
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: either think A. I had cancer. B I was mentally ill.

834
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: Like like moment, I just was like, look, I've been

835
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: honest and transparent about everything in my life. I'm going

836
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: to tell this story for myself to be set free.

837
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: It really wasn't to help other people. I wish I

838
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: could say I was like altruistic and that I really

839
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: was coming from.

840
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 3: A place of need.

841
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 1: Wanted to let it go, set free, and so I

842
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: documented it because I'm like a film you know.

843
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 3: I wanted to capture.

844
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: This moment for me, and so I had my friend

845
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: photograph and videotape, and then I had my dearest friends

846
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: with me, and.

847
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 3: It was it was like a ritual.

848
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: It was like a yeah, it was like a ceremony,

849
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: and it was one of the most badass things I've

850
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: ever done in my life. It was super amazing and

851
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: I was set free and I turned out I look

852
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: really good with a shaved head and you don't know

853
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: it until you do it, until you do it.

854
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 3: And yeah, and then I grew back.

855
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 1: I partnered with a hair company that helped me with

856
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: my hair that that helped my scalp and my hair

857
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 1: be is healthy. I still use it to this day. Yeah,

858
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: or clinic and I still use it. I'm not paid

859
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: by them now, and I but it works. If it doesn't,

860
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: you know, if it's not broken, don't fix it.

861
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 3: And so I'm just I do my protocol.

862
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,479
Speaker 1: But I'm really I'm really proud of like being able

863
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: to sort of overcome that dark my secret, you know,

864
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: and to be able to tell and the fact that

865
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: it helps so many people.

866
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 3: In the process has been icing on the cake.

867
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: Well, secrets are Secrets are a poison. Yeah, Secrets make

868
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: you sick, is what people say. And that's always why

869
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 2: why I when I had like a nervous breakdown around

870
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: forty forty one or something, maybe forty two, I don't know,

871
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 2: so pre pandemic, pre pandemic but no, no, it was

872
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 2: in the midst of the pandemic. But it wasn't COVID

873
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 2: related I'm sure COVID didn't help, but I just did

874
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: a nervous breakdown and it was like twenty years of

875
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 2: being anxious. I just ohdeed on it and my body

876
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: was like, you cannot keep doing what you're doing. And

877
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 2: I had to be honest about it right away because

878
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: I was debilitated.

879
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 3: Wait, so did you like go to a hospital and

880
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 3: get help or like what was your Yeah? I got

881
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 3: immediate help.

882
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 2: I got medication, I got several therapists. It was so

883
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 2: bad I needed help right away. That was the blessing

884
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: in it, that it was so bad. There was no

885
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: maybe I can sleep it off, maybe I can get

886
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: myself out of it. I knew I couldn't, and so

887
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 2: I started embarking on this mental health journey.

888
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 3: But I had to be I wanted to be honest.

889
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 2: I had been covering women like Naomi Osaka and Simone

890
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 2: Biles and Megan Markle who had been coming out and

891
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 2: talking honestly about their mental health. I'd been covering them

892
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: and applauding their bravery. And here in this moment was

893
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 2: I going to hide mine?

894
00:37:59,239 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 3: Yeah?

895
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 2: So I felt I had to because I have to

896
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 2: keep doing my job, and this is really the only

897
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: thing I can make sense of right now is the

898
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 2: way my head is feeling. And so I did it,

899
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 2: and it was I put the baggage down immediately. I

900
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 2: didn't want to carry around secrets while I tried to

901
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 2: be myself in my job. I just that was going

902
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 2: to add to the weight of what I was already

903
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: going through. And so I always encourage people when they're

904
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: going through tell as many people as you can.

905
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it really it's for you.

906
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and if it ends up helping people, terrific,

907
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 2: but like initially, get it off you and get this

908
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 2: remove the secret part as secretcy because it really can

909
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 2: weigh you down.

910
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: I can add to that I was molested as a

911
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: little girl and which caused me to be fat, which

912
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: caused me to get hairspray, so the end, you know.

913
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: But my point is that I didn't tell a soul.

914
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: Really it happened a bunch of times, I don't know

915
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: how often, But then I told my parents and it

916
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: was never discussed again. I never got therapy, nothing, and

917
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: I didn't talk about it until I was twenty one

918
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: years of age and I told a new boyfriend and

919
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: I just told him and shared and it was like this, like,

920
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: oh my god, like I've been set again like that.

921
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 3: Yes, and then and then once you open that gate,

922
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 3: you hear all the other people that have gone through

923
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 3: the same experience and you don't feel so weird. I

924
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 3: felt like I was the only person that that happened to.

925
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: And so anyway, I'm all for being open and honest,

926
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: you know, and yeah.

927
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 3: For so many reasons. Yes, but my god, you've been.

928
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 2: Through so much, as you just mentioned, molestation, the hins

929
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: and loads of your.

930
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 3: I'm beginning of the hits. I mean, these are this is.

931
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: A lot, the buyers, divorces, and I'm still like the

932
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: luckiest person.

933
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 3: I'm the luckiest. How are you an optimist? I because

934
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 3: look at my life. My life is extraordinary.

935
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: I mean I've gotten to do it all. And I

936
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: really like, like who I am.

937
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 3: I like like the people that I haven't, I like

938
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 3: the children I created, I like. I mean, I just

939
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 3: I feel very strongly that when I die, whenever that is,

940
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,959
Speaker 3: people are gonna say she lived, man, because I've.

941
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: Done so much and there's not I mean, there's a lot,

942
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: Like I have a bucket list, I have you know, Like,

943
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I have things I want to do that

944
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: I haven't done yet.

945
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: But I also desperately no, none of it. None of it.

946
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 1: I mean, and you know this, this new adventure moving

947
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: back to New York is definitely one that wasn't on

948
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: my Bingo card for this year. I did not expect

949
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: to be to lose my house.

950
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: And to have to pivot.

951
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: But we both My husband who has never spent more

952
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: he had never spent more than a week in New

953
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: York City before, and he is thriving. He's an ex Mormon,

954
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: a San Diego beach guy, a lawyer, and he's just

955
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: embraced like this new lifestyle. This like like I mean,

956
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 1: it's it's Our lifestyle is so different because in Maliburn,

957
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: we never left our house. You know, we would stay

958
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: at the beach, we'd go hiking every day. We were

959
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: very and people come to.

960
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 3: Us to our house.

961
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: But we had a very like home bound situation that

962
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: we love. We had two rocking chairs at the end

963
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: of our deck that looked out at the beach, surfer

964
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: Wighter's Beach, and we're like, this.

965
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 3: Is where we get to grow old.

966
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: Like we're going to build a guest house, so we

967
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: have a nurse, the elder care that gets to live

968
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: here and take care of us, so we get to

969
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: die on this land like that.

970
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 3: Had it all planned.

971
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 1: We talked about it a lot, and then when it's

972
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: all ripped away and it's like, okay, where do we

973
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: want it?

974
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 3: We can go anywhere. We really can go anywhere.

975
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: And I said, let's go back to New York, which

976
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: is so ironic because I left New York after nine eleven,

977
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: like again, right, fight or flight.

978
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 3: Like I just fleet.

979
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: So here I am twenty one years later coming back

980
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: and moving not far from where I left, you know,

981
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 1: very close, and it's so different.

982
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: Now the city has changed. Right, Oh my gosh, the

983
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 3: Highland didn't exist, right, you know, little island in the

984
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 3: West Side high that's my area, the West Side Highway.

985
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 3: It is.

986
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 1: It is really special to be back, and I'm so anyway,

987
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 1: so we are this is this is actually an amazing

988
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: time for us, even though the world feels like it's

989
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: collapsing and imploading everywhere you turn.

990
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 3: Our little our family, our children are all healthy, and

991
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 3: we're really we're the happiest people in our mid fifties

992
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 3: you've ever met. I love that. So this is the

993
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 3: final question before a lightning round.

994
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: What's harder starting over or letting go of the past?

995
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness, letting go, i'd say, because I mean,

996
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: I'm someone that I've done plant medicine and ayahuasca many

997
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: many times. And my always, my my intention is always

998
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 1: letting go. And it can be whatever, letting go of resentment,

999
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: letting go of you know, whatever is or yeah, and

1000
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: I am constantly that is a lesson. I'm constantly having

1001
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,240
Speaker 1: to revisit and learn. Yeah, letting go is hard. Yeah,

1002
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's And I had to let go

1003
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: of my my my husband who passed away. And actually Ayahuasca,

1004
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: my mother Ayahuasca told me in a journey I was

1005
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: in go ahead that and this is before he passed away,

1006
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: that I had to let him go, like it was

1007
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: the one before he passed away. Now again, I don't

1008
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: know if you I don't know if you're with that medicine,

1009
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 1: you are. I had done it probably eight times before

1010
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: I had this one time that I did it Innabiza

1011
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: and under a white dome with about eighty people, eighty

1012
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: strangers basically all dressed in white, and we had this

1013
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: Brazilian shaman and it was this beautiful ceremony, and at

1014
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: one point I left the dome and I went outside

1015
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: and I was looking up.

1016
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: It's I can get really, I can go deep.

1017
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 1: I don't know anyway, it reminded me so when Okay, So,

1018
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: when I eventually told my parents about the male station,

1019
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: I was in this position looking up, like out at

1020
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: my driveway, looking at them confront that gut the man,

1021
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,959
Speaker 1: and so I was like like hiding and peeking under

1022
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: this chair.

1023
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 3: With just my eyes.

1024
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:39,760
Speaker 1: And so it was sort of in the same position

1025
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: that night with Mother Ayahuasca talking to me and telling me,

1026
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: you have to let him go. And I it sounds

1027
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: so crazy to you people that are listening, but I'm

1028
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: telling you, yes, I had this experience and I was

1029
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: having this shot this match back and forth.

1030
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 3: I said, I'm not letting him go. I'm not letting go.

1031
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 1: You have to let him go. You have and that's

1032
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: I was horrified. When I came out of that journey.

1033
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: I didn't tell him right away what happened, and ultimately

1034
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: I had to let him go like he took his life.

1035
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,720
Speaker 1: I guess that would would have been three years later.

1036
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: Three years later.

1037
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 3: How did you interpret that at the time you have

1038
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 3: to let him go. Well, okay, so he was.

1039
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: That was in twenty fourteen, and that was the start

1040
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: of his first psych manic episode that I was witnessing,

1041
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: and so I knew, like I was, I knew something

1042
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: was off with him, but I didn't want to admit it.

1043
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 4: You know.

1044
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: It's like with bipolar, and my experience with bipolar is

1045
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: that he was presenting so healthy and well, like he

1046
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: was getting up in the morning and he had all

1047
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: these ideas and he's you know, like he was just

1048
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: on fire, whereas before he would be in bed and

1049
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: had chronic pain and was depressed and he was more

1050
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: of the depressive.

1051
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 3: But this he was in this mania anyway.

1052
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: So it was years later, like that was the first

1053
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: stint of like noticing that the behavior was changing, and

1054
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: his sister had kind of tipped me off, like watch

1055
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: for this, watch for this. I think my brother's having

1056
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: this bipole anyway, So I didn't want to see it.

1057
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 3: And then I it's like.

1058
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: Oh like that because my mother, why, I ask, is

1059
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: your own soul? So that yeah, I may put the

1060
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: dots together, but I did not want to see it.

1061
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: I did not want to experience it. And you know, Yeah,

1062
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: the holder, the tighter you hold on to a loved one.

1063
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's that's that's not going to work. You know,

1064
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: you need to be in a place of letting them

1065
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 1: be free so that you have them in the first

1066
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: you know.

1067
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 3: Okay, well, thank you for sharing so much. I know

1068
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 3: too much.

1069
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 2: There's no such thing here that was so great and

1070
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 2: there's so much I'm going to think about when I

1071
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 2: leave this.

1072
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 3: But let's end on a lighter lightning round. Okay, that

1073
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 3: felt light.

1074
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: Actually, I feel like it's like when I when I

1075
00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: share whatever, whether it's about it's cathartic, it's actually feels

1076
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 1: it helps me in my journey and healing.

1077
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, let's do a lightning round. Okay, what's your

1078
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 3: favorite musical? Well, I wouldn't say Anne because we were

1079
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 3: talking about Anny. Does it have to be really fast

1080
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 3: because I have a lot? No, no, no, no, Okay.

1081
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: My favorite musical of last year, because I've seen a

1082
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: bunch of shows, is maybe Happy Ending, but is a

1083
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: close that.

1084
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 3: It's so special? It's so special. I've heard that. Yeah,

1085
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 3: I want to go there.

1086
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: I have listed like other ones that are right behind it.

1087
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: Right behind sends a boulevard that production Death Becomes Her.

1088
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 3: I absolutely I want to see that next week.

1089
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: Oh, it's incredible. You have to see it with Meghan.

1090
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: I have yet to see Megan and Jennifer Samar.

1091
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 3: Obsessed with her. I'm so excited.

1092
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: She's amazing. Okay, that's incredible bringing Chess back. I'm going

1093
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: to see Chess Chong side.

1094
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 3: Him so well, oh my god, I know, I know.

1095
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 3: So you're like you like Broadway, a huge Broadway. What's

1096
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 3: your favorite musical? I think like of all time is

1097
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 3: probably Lay Miss Miss like one. I love. Okay, you

1098
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 3: like Bil Schoenberg Macintosh. I love the drama. Are you

1099
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 3: a sonhi fan? I'm not as much. Yeah, neither, I

1100
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 3: want to hear yeah, no, no no, but Sunce at Boulevard.

1101
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:18,399
Speaker 3: I love that score. Okay. I love Avita. The score

1102
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:19,919
Speaker 3: of a Vita is good. I do too.

1103
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 2: I don't love the production of you know, yeah, Phantom

1104
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:23,760
Speaker 2: and Wicked.

1105
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 3: Yeah you're nay not a huge Wicked fan. Okay. Color

1106
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 3: Purple is one of my favorite musicals. Well that's fantastic. Yeah,

1107
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 3: my friend wrote the music to that.

1108
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: Ali Willis the Late Rally Willis and the Color Purple.

1109
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 3: I got to see it.

1110
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: With the Shawn's But I to see with Cynthia Rivo amazing, incredible. Yeah,

1111
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: am I've seen it with that? Yeah, Yeah, I love Chicago.

1112
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 3: I love Chicago. What a great book? Yeah, I mean Cabaret.

1113
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 3: Cabaret is great. A chorus line, of course, chorus line.

1114
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: I need a chorus line to come back with like

1115
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 2: a ton of famous people.

1116
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I want to see. I would love that.

1117
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: That would be amazing. Oh, Rent, I'm a rental Rent

1118
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: is fantastic. Okay, I like a music. Let's let's let

1119
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: this be your lightning round.

1120
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 3: Come on, love. I could talk musicals all day long,

1121
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 3: all day long. Charris plays a good musical too, Chris

1122
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 3: pretty fantastic.

1123
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that there's a there's a sort of a

1124
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 2: a kind of musical like the Bye Bye Birdie is

1125
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 2: the How to Succeed Like those are just really nostalgic

1126
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 2: and fun.

1127
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, to live in a time?

1128
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:25,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely for Second Street, my grease back.

1129
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 3: In the day.

1130
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe next to normal, wasn't it? That was about

1131
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:30,720
Speaker 1: mental illness?

1132
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 3: Okay, I don't know that one.

1133
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: Oh next to normal and next to normal? Yeah it

1134
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: was a Adam Tavett. He's it was his breakout. I

1135
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: think he won the Tony. It's a brilliant score. I

1136
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: like also, Dear Evan Hanson.

1137
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's great, that's great. I love Book of Mormon. Okay,

1138
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: all right, I mean we could just do this forever.

1139
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,280
Speaker 2: Let's get to the next thing. Who is the goat

1140
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 2: daytime talk show host?

1141
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,399
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Oh my god. Well, Oprah, I mean,

1142
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 3: but doctor Phil. I don't know. For me, I come

1143
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 3: from a different like like vantage point. I'd say I

1144
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 3: revered the two of them. Okay, they were brilliant in

1145
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 3: their own right. Doctor Phil is really compelling television, is he?

1146
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 3: He's really compelling? Yeah?

1147
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 1: Okay, what no, Doctor Phil or Phil Donahue. I'm talking

1148
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: about Phil Donahue.

1149
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 3: Oh I thought you said, Doctor Phil. Wait, we have

1150
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 3: to like go back, go back, fix that?

1151
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 1: Why do you fix it? But like you can leave

1152
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: it in? Yeah, I meant Phil Donague. I'm so sorry.

1153
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,919
Speaker 3: Those are very different people. Yes, and you were going

1154
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 3: along with me, you were going a lot. I'm not.

1155
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 2: There's a part of doctor Phil that really bothers me.

1156
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 2: But it's very compelling TV. It's an arguable I mean, ye,

1157
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 2: and he's very he's very good as a conductor.

1158
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,320
Speaker 1: He was better for me when he was on Oprah

1159
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: when he didn't have his own show, and he exploded.

1160
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: I was definitely stressing. And I'm not gonna be trashing

1161
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: doctor Phil.

1162
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 3: But Phil Donahue is appeared for me.

1163
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: Yes, and he and he was so charming, and he

1164
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: was so smart, and he was so curious, and he

1165
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: was so fair and he did groundbreaking stuff back then.

1166
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 3: So him and Oprah. I'm sorry that I said the

1167
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 3: wrong name. I'm completely with you. What's the job you've

1168
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 3: never tried but you'd like to?

1169
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,399
Speaker 1: Oh, I wouldn't be good at it, but I really

1170
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,760
Speaker 1: would love to be a sports a basketball NBA sports

1171
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: commentator or like see a pink on the sideline, like I'm.

1172
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,920
Speaker 3: A big girl. Yes, love that.

1173
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: I would not be good at it, but I always

1174
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: look at those women on there and like how they

1175
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: get that job?

1176
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 3: I want to do that. I bet you could do it.

1177
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 3: I bet you'd be good.

1178
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 1: No, I would, fan girl, I bet I would. Just

1179
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 1: I yeah, I love we love the NBA. And he

1180
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: used to really the Clippers, like the Yeah, it's going

1181
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: to be their year.

1182
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 3: Next year is their year. I say that every year.

1183
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 2: Let's manifest it let's go Ricky Lake a stint. Yes,

1184
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 2: being a color commentator the Clippers.

1185
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 3: I mean they know I love, they know where I am. Okay, okay,

1186
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 3: they know how to reach you. Yes. If you could

1187
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 3: start a school to teach people something, what would you

1188
00:50:58,280 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 3: teach them? Oh?

1189
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: I mean I don't claim to. I think maybe authenticity

1190
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: or finding a way to celebrate who you are and

1191
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: own that and do with that what you will.

1192
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know. It's great. I love that. Yeah, yeah, okay,

1193
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 3: I love that. Thanks.

1194
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 2: What do you think of this age of influencers where

1195
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 2: TikTokers and reality stars are guiding the kinds of conversations

1196
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 2: you used to.

1197
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 3: That's a really good question. I don't know how I feel.

1198
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's so spread out, it's so

1199
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, I am addicted to my phone

1200
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: and I am a recent addictee to TikTok. Okay, Like

1201
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 1: I didn't really discover tiktoking about it until about a

1202
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: year ago.

1203
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 3: And now I'm in. I'm in.

1204
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: They've got my algorithms. I mean, I've got the Broadway stuff.

1205
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: Now with Broadway musicals, they want the TikTok disposure because

1206
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: it sells tickets, and it's a younger.

1207
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 3: Demo, yes, younger people.

1208
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and so it's it's fascinating. But so

1209
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: I I have a love hate thing with it, like

1210
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 1: I really wish. I mean, and I'm so grateful that

1211
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 1: my children are sort of they were brought up outside

1212
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: of the peak top of having a A ten year old.

1213
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 3: Right now, does he have a phone?

1214
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no no, he's not on social

1215
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,240
Speaker 2: media and won't be fun't how I would navigate.

1216
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 3: Terifica both my children. One doesn't do social media media

1217
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 3: at all, he.

1218
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: Doesn't have an account, and the other one barely has one.

1219
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 3: That's where you want to be.

1220
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's but but I think because

1221
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: they were just they just aged out of it. I

1222
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: think when it was like yeah, but they've had phones

1223
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: since they were little. Yeah, but but they're not. They're

1224
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: also very unique in their own way. But I love

1225
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 1: that that that they're not addicted like I am.

1226
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, but I don't think I answered your question.

1227
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 3: But I I just think it's you have a love hate.

1228
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 3: I get that, because so do I I have a

1229
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 3: love hate too.

1230
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I am what's real? What is and

1231
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 1: now with AI, I mean it's like it's scary.

1232
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:55,280
Speaker 3: It is scary.

1233
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: It is like it's fascinating. It's like what they keep saying,

1234
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: how our world is going to change. We are not

1235
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: going to recognize in like ten years what.

1236
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 3: It's going to be super fast. Yes, yeah, so.

1237
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: And I'm seeing it now. Actually I had an experience

1238
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: with chat GPT. This is like so basically there's prompt

1239
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: that I saw on Facebook that said, hey, chat GPT.

1240
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 3: You know of all you know, of all the data

1241
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 3: you have.

1242
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 1: On me Ricky Lake, please tell me who I am

1243
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 1: at my core, and don't do don't sugarcoat it.

1244
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1245
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: It literally, first of all, I want chatch GPT to

1246
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: write my obituary. It is the most beautiful reflection of me,

1247
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: and then my career and I'm telling I'll show you

1248
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: after that it is. It was like the most it

1249
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: was so beautiful, honestly, Wow. Actually gave me some ideas

1250
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: and and I didn't go very deep. It keeps asking

1251
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: you do you want to go deeper? Do you want

1252
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: to go deeper? And it's like in two seconds and

1253
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: so so that thing, the fact that we can actually

1254
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 1: do that.

1255
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 3: Is terrifying and like exhilarating.

1256
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, okay, this is the last question and it's

1257
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 2: very important to me personally.

1258
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 3: Okay, when is it iced coffee season? Oh? All day,

1259
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 3: every day.

1260
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 2: Yes, that's the correct answer for I knew. I knew

1261
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: we were connected somehow.

1262
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 3: I do that. I need to come to the show,

1263
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 3: even though I'm not promoting anything. I wanted to meet you.

1264
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 3: So it's been a meet too. I'm so glad we

1265
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,919
Speaker 3: did this. Thank you so much. What a gift, thank

1266
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 3: that you've given us. I appreciate it. Yay yay. Coming

1267
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 3: up next week on.

1268
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 2: Off the Cup, I sit down and talk to celebrity

1269
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 2: chef rock O de Spirito.

1270
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 4: We cooked till the day we die. We never stop cooking.

1271
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 4: I wake up and I cook eggs. And that's my

1272
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:41,879
Speaker 4: career and my work and my job and my love

1273
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 4: and my joy. So yeah, so wrapped up in one

1274
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 4: wonderful thing.

1275
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 2: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as

1276
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 2: part of the Reason Choice Network.

1277
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 3: If you want more, check out the other.

1278
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 2: Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill and Native Land pod.

1279
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 3: For Off the Cup, I'm your host s c Cup.

1280
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 3: Editing and sound design by Derek clements. Our executive producers

1281
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 3: are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman.

1282
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 2: Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts, Follow or

1283
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 2: subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday,