1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Couric and this is next question. Today. 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: We're going to be exploring happiness because we seem to 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: be obsessed with that as a culture. 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 2: Just look to hire ed. 5 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: Some of the most elite universities tap courses on happiness, 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: the science of it, the value of it, the history 7 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: and future of it. There are podcasts about happiness, whole 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: genres of Ernest's TV shows built to temporarily evoke it. 9 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: I'm looking at you, Ted Lasso. Why are we all 10 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: so smitten with happiness? Is it because the world is burning, 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: because we're doom scrolling, because the Internet makes us want 12 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: what we can't have. Let's find out. My guest today 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: is none other than happiness expert and one of those 14 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: aforementioned happiness scholars, Arthur C. 15 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 3: Brooks. 16 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: Arthur also writes a regular column for The Atlantic on happiness, 17 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: and his most recent book is called From Strength to Strength, 18 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: Finding Success, Happiness, and Deep Purpose in the second half 19 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: of Life. Here's our conversation, with all due respect, Arthur, what. 20 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 3: Makes telling me? 21 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: What makes you qualified? And what makes you an expert 22 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: on happiness? 23 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 3: Yeah? 24 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 4: So, I am a PhD social scientist and I have 25 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 4: studied behavioral economics and social psychological principles my entire career. 26 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 4: I started off by studying beauty and why people admire things, 27 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 4: why people love and are attracted to beauty. Later, I 28 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 4: was studying philanthropy and charitable giving, why people voluntarily serve 29 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 4: other people, And I kept finding that in those two areas, 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 4: the tap root was happiness. The tap root was trying 31 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 4: to live a better life. And so I thought to 32 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 4: myself as I as I got to the middle part 33 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 4: of my career, you know, I'm going to study the 34 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 4: main thing, the main thing that everybody wants. You know, 35 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 4: I have the skills to look at these things. You know, 36 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 4: I'm trained and applied statistics and all of these things 37 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 4: that people suffer through and they're getting their PhDs. But 38 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 4: it's very easy to get kind of stuck, you know, 39 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 4: studying marginal things. And when I started talking about the 40 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 4: science of happiness, which there really is a huge science. 41 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 4: I'm really bringing in the neuroscience and the social science 42 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 4: and the philosophy of happiness and using my academic skills 43 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 4: to bring these things together. I found everybody wanted to 44 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 4: know more. And this is the magic part of it, Katie, 45 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 4: You know, we're all we all have skills, you know, 46 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 4: we've all worked hard to be good to what we're doing. 47 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 4: The real question for us in our careers is the why. 48 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 4: And I got to the point in my life when 49 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 4: I said, you know what, the why of my career 50 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 4: is to lift people up and bring them together. And 51 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 4: the way that I can do that is using my 52 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 4: knowledge and my skills to help them pursue their happiness. 53 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 4: And so I decided I was going to do that 54 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 4: for the rest of my life. 55 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: Do you think happiness is the wrong word for what 56 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: we're all searching for? Because it can be so fleeting 57 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: and so elusive, and I'm not sure if it is 58 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: even accurate in terms of what you talk about in 59 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 1: your book. 60 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, No, So that's actually that's the first issue 61 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 4: that I raise in my class. I teach a class 62 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 4: in the Science of Happiness at the Harvard Business School, 63 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 4: and I have one hundred and eighty students and about 64 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 4: four hundred on the waiting list. I mean, it's it's 65 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 4: a class that obviously, hey, kids, free candy. I mean 66 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 4: they I mean happiness is something that they think I want. 67 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 4: And one of the ways that I reasons I use 68 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 4: the word happiness is to bring people in, and then 69 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 4: when we're talking with more precision, we boil it down 70 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 4: a little bit more So on the first day of class, 71 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 4: I say, okay, you spent all your elective points to 72 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 4: get into the happiness class. You obviously must know what 73 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 4: it is. So what is it in a cold column, 74 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 4: which is you know? You go out and you say you, okay, 75 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 4: you know what's happiness? And they'll say, that's the feeling 76 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 4: I get when you know, I see my family on 77 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 4: Thanksgiving or something and they'll talk about their feelings. And 78 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 4: I say, now, that's not right. That's like saying that 79 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 4: your Thanksgiving dinner is the smell of the turkey. You 80 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 4: wouldn't say that. I mean that the smell of the 81 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 4: turkey is evidence of Thanksgiving dinner, and your feelings of 82 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 4: happiness are evident of something deeper, more profound or real 83 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 4: phenomenon that you can study and practice and share. And 84 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 4: then we start to develop the idea and the truth 85 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 4: is that happiness is really a combination of three things. 86 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 4: It's a combination of enjoyment, satisfaction, and purpose. Those are 87 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 4: the big three things that people are looking for. And 88 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 4: the truth is you need all kinds of experiences and emotions. 89 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 4: You even need unhappiness to get those things. You need 90 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 4: a full life, fully alive, And the science actually brings 91 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 4: out all those ideas. So you're right, we got to 92 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 4: get people's attention. But happiness is a much deeper phenomenon 93 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 4: than just hey, I feel happy. 94 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: I think of words like contentment, fulfillment, and inner piece. 95 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 1: Even as happneyed as that phrase is when I think 96 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: about what one's goal should be, right. 97 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 4: So the way to think about that, so contentment is 98 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 4: really important. That's part of satisfaction with life. And so 99 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 4: the key thing is that all the happiest people they 100 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 4: haven't and think about it kind of like the macronutrients. 101 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,559 Speaker 4: You know, when you say dinner is protein, carbohydrates, and fat. 102 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 4: I mean, it's kind of a clinical way to look 103 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 4: at dinner. It's not very romantic, but you know it's like, 104 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 4: join me for dinner of protein, carbohydrates and fat. It's 105 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 4: not that great, But the truth is, if you want 106 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 4: to be healthy, you need all those three things in 107 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 4: balance and abundance. Happiness basically is a way that we 108 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 4: need to understand how to enjoy our lives. You know, 109 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 4: from moment to moment, and which is not pleasure. It's 110 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 4: it's something much deeper, something much more human than than 111 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 4: than pleasure, and that there's a whole science behind that. 112 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 4: Satisfaction is is the piece that you get when you 113 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 4: you achieve something that you've really worked for. That's the 114 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 4: sense of contentment with your life because you've met your goals. 115 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 3: Now that can be a curse too. 116 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll talk about that later because I know I'm 117 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: dying to talk to you. 118 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 4: Satisfaction as a real killer, but it can be. But 119 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 4: then there's purpose and meaning and that's the that's really 120 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 4: the deepest of all. You know, what is my life 121 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 4: all about? 122 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 3: You know? How? 123 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 4: What's the coherence? What's the the general direction of my life? 124 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 4: Why am I alive? And that takes a whole lot 125 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 4: of work and a whole lot of suffering for people 126 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 4: to understand the answer to that question. And nobody wants 127 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 4: to suffer, and we don't need to look for it. 128 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 4: It will, in point of fact, find all of us. 129 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,799 Speaker 4: And so those three things altogether, they encompass so many 130 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 4: things and so many skills. And that's what's my privilege 131 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 4: to write and teach. 132 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 2: But I'm curious. 133 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: What about our society today has made people have this 134 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: yearning to learn more, to do more. I think if 135 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: I told my parents when I was growing up, yeah, 136 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: you know, I want to be happy and what can 137 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: we do to be happy? I mean, it does sound 138 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: marginally or moderately, I guess self indulgent to say it 139 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: to our parents' generation. I think, but what is happening 140 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: right now in the culture where people need this and 141 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: they want it and they're yearning for it. 142 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 3: Yeah. 143 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 4: A couple of different things have happened along the Waymber, 144 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 4: I was having a conversation with my dad. I changed careers. 145 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 4: I was a classical musician for a long time in 146 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 4: my late twenties. I knew I was going to have 147 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 4: to change careers and I told my dad I was 148 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 4: going to do it. He said, what, You're successful? Things 149 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 4: are going well, he said. He said, why do you 150 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 4: want to do that? And I said, Dad, I'm not happy? 151 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 4: And he said, what makes you so special? 152 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: Yeah? 153 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, totally, totally, Yeah, I get it. Well, A 154 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 3: couple of things have happened. 155 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 4: Number one is happiness as a science has really exploded. 156 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 4: And two generations ago, or even one generation ago, people 157 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 4: didn't realize that. They really thought it was a nice 158 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 4: to have, you know, good luck, live right, play by 159 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 4: the rules, try to get lucky, you know, when it 160 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 4: comes to happiness. And we actually know a lot more 161 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 4: than we did about that. In many ways, it follows 162 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 4: the advent of care for mental illness or for even 163 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 4: mood disorders, where you know, in nineteen fifty or even 164 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 4: nineteen sixty, people just had to suffer, and now we 165 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 4: know that there's a lot that you can do. The 166 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 4: happiness science is not trying to get you from behind 167 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 4: the line of scrimmage to you know, functioning adequately. It's 168 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 4: going for you know, people who are functioning pretty well 169 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 4: to to be kind of fitness, you know, junkies. It's 170 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 4: sort of people who are in good health, but they 171 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 4: really want to work by going to the gym and 172 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 4: getting better at that. Another thing that my parents' generation 173 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 4: thought was completely crazy. Here's the other problem. That's actually 174 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 4: why there's been such an explosion of interest. Happiness is declining. 175 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 4: We've seen actually happiness and decline since about nineteen ninety 176 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 4: and you know, you and I were you know, as 177 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 4: like young adults and these and you know, in those 178 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 4: days and I mean, that's pretty extraordinary that it would 179 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 4: be declining at a time when income is going up, 180 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 4: when standard of living is going up, literacy is going up, 181 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 4: child mortality is going down. Most indicators of what a 182 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 4: good life is are going in one direction, but happiness 183 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 4: is going in the other direction. 184 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 3: So you got to ask what's actually. 185 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 4: Going on and when people are I mean, you don't 186 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 4: study air unless you don't have enough of it, and 187 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 4: so that's a little of what's happening too. 188 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 3: I think, well, I thought. 189 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: That there were a lot of things that weren't going up. 190 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people younger generation don't feel 191 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: that they'll be as successful as their parents. They I think, 192 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: worry about climate change, They worry about sort of the economy, 193 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: there's so many They worry about democracy. So are these 194 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: things really as good as you say they are? 195 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 4: Well, part of the is the difference between things getting 196 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 4: better and what we're worried about, what we're worried about 197 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 4: the future. And the key thing that we all know 198 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 4: from our own lives is things can be pretty good, 199 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 4: but if you're in bad shape for your happiness, you're 200 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 4: going to be very worried about the future. And you're 201 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 4: only going to see the negative side of everything. So 202 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 4: this is a lot of what we see. Look, there 203 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 4: are concerns, there are all kinds of things that we 204 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 4: need to do differently to. We do need to work 205 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 4: on a democracy, we do need to work on all 206 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 4: sorts of social issues to make our world better. But 207 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 4: when people are very fired up, and quite frankly, there 208 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 4: are a lot of people that are our age that 209 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 4: are trying to conscript young people as kind of child 210 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 4: soldiers into a culture war and kind of a baby 211 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 4: boom more culture or on right and left, let's make 212 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 4: everybody as afraid and angry as they can possibly be. 213 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 4: But they're willing to join up forces like that when 214 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 4: the happiness is too low. When people are in a 215 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 4: good place, they're less likely to say, look, I understand 216 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 4: those problems, but life is pretty good. And when they 217 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 4: say no, everything's rotten, you know we're all going to 218 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 4: be in trouble. You know, the truth is that young 219 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 4: people today they have as much opportunity and actually more 220 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 4: prosperity than people have ever had before. 221 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 3: But it's hard to see. 222 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 4: The good things when you don't actually feel the happiness 223 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 4: in life around you. 224 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about that. Why is happiness on the decline? 225 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: If in fact things are pretty good and the world 226 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: is humming along and things are as good as you 227 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: say they are, why has happiness declined. 228 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 4: It's not as if it's great for everybody. I mean, 229 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 4: it's like, as they say, your results may vary in 230 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 4: almost anything, and so there's some people who truly are suffering, 231 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 4: and so we don't want to make minimize that. 232 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 3: Even if things are going in the right direction in 233 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:02,359 Speaker 3: terms of trends. 234 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 4: We don't you know, individuals might have been having a 235 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 4: hard time and there's still lots to do. So we 236 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 4: have to emphasize the fact that things aren't perfect and 237 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 4: we all have an opportunity to make things better. 238 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 3: So that's really good. 239 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 4: But what happens is when things are on balance, pretty 240 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 4: prosperous and pretty free, but we don't see it. You 241 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 4: have to look to other kinds of forces, and what 242 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 4: we find is basically that we have a world that's 243 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 4: been kind of torqued towards these idols that a lot 244 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 4: of young people are falling prey to. 245 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 3: Now. 246 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 4: One of the great blessings of people our age Ktie 247 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 4: is that there was no social media when we were young, 248 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 4: and that means that we didn't have the kind of 249 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 4: social comparison pressures, we didn't have the kind of materialistic pressures. 250 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 4: We didn't have a sense that everybody's life was great 251 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 4: and ours wasn't so good. 252 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 3: But that's a broader. 253 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 4: Case of people being induced toward these idols of money 254 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 4: and power and pleasure and the admiration of strangers. Whereas 255 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 4: the one of the great things that we find in 256 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 4: the science of happiness is there's really four big habits 257 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 4: that the happiest people have that are not consistent with 258 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 4: those idols, and those are faith or a life philosophy, 259 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 4: or something that gives you a sense of the why 260 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 4: of life. It doesn't have to be a traditional religious faith. 261 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 4: It has to be something that's bigger than you. Family 262 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 4: life and you decide what family life means. But these 263 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 4: are the ties that bind and don't break, and often 264 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 4: you don't choose, and God knows you wouldn't in many cases. 265 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 4: But there are the people who take the two am 266 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 4: phone call friendship as in real friends, not deal friends. 267 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,719 Speaker 4: And last but not least, it's work where you can 268 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 4: serve others. And our society is pushing people away from faith, family, friends, 269 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 4: and work, and toward a kind of self worship around money, power, pleasure, 270 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 4: and fame. And those are just unhealthy things. And that's 271 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 4: really what explains a good deal of why it's so 272 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 4: hard to just find happiness on your own. 273 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 1: You say, happy people love people and use things. Unhappy 274 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: people use people and love things. That's right, which is 275 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: basically their values and priorities are clearly not in the 276 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: right place. 277 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 4: Yes, that's a more concise way of saying. You know, 278 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 4: use people, love things, money, power, pleasure, and fame. Use things, 279 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 4: love people, faith, family, friends, and work. 280 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 3: The service. 281 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, other than social media, what do you think has 282 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: caused a decline in happiness? Is it loneliness and isolation? 283 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: I know that you started writing during the pandemic, your 284 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: column for The Atlantic. You know what other factors are 285 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: contributing to a decline of happiness. 286 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 4: One is a big cultural phenomenon that's very interesting that 287 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 4: philosophers have been writing about for many centuries, which is 288 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 4: that you can get a culture of fear. Now, fear 289 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 4: and love are the opposite emotions. We often think that 290 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 4: hatred and love are opposites, but hatred is a function 291 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 4: of fear, and we find when we look at the 292 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 4: neuroscience of fear, it occupies it. It's the most prominent negative, 293 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 4: basic emotion produced by the limbic system of the brain. 294 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 4: Everybody's heard of the amygdala. It's the part of the 295 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 4: brain that actually the almond shape little things on either 296 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 4: side of your brain in the limbic system that they 297 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 4: stimulate a lot of stress hormones, fight or flight or freeze. 298 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 4: And what they do is they dominate all of the emotions. Well, 299 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 4: the opposite most basic positive emotion is love. Fear and 300 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 4: love are opposites. And you can have either polarity in 301 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 4: a company, or a family, or a whole country. And 302 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 4: we've been for quite a long time in a fear 303 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 4: polarity in our policy, in our culture, and that's hugely problematic. 304 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 4: Look you and I, I mean, we're established, you know, 305 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 4: we have our families. There's a lot that we can 306 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 4: rely upon. But even people our age have been falling 307 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 4: prey to this. Young people, on the other hand, they're 308 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 4: quite vulnerable to the culture of fear and. 309 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 3: What foments it. 310 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 4: It's politicians that are you know, it's interesting, I'll tell 311 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 4: young people, you know, but you are an unwilling soldier. 312 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 4: If you hate because somebody's trying to tell you that 313 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 4: you must hate and you must be afraid. You know 314 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 4: that person does not have your best interest at heart. 315 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 4: They're profiting You're not, as you know, I tell this 316 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 4: in every university campus that I go to. Don't be 317 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 4: a willing participant in the baby Boomer culture war with 318 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 4: canceling people you disagree with, you know, with actually weakening 319 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 4: the fundamentals of our democracy. What you're doing is you're 320 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 4: standing up for somebody else's values and you're falling prey 321 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 4: to this fear. So fear in our culture is one 322 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 4: of the biggest problems that we have, and it especially 323 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 4: affects young people. 324 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: Well, I would say that that cancel culture movement was 325 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: born on college campuses, not necessarily in the baby Boomer 326 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: generation where people who didn't agree with you basically were 327 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: I mean, where there's not a free and fair debate 328 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: on all these issues that you're marginalized, canceled, or whatever 329 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: you want to call it, you know, really ostracized if 330 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: you have a different point of view. So I'm not 331 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: sure I agree with this baby Boomer culture war that 332 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: you ascribe to. 333 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 4: Well, what I find is is, you know, sitting on 334 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 4: a college campus that it is largely it's a lot 335 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 4: of people my age that have been promoting these ideas 336 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 4: for a very long time. And you know, and in 337 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 4: creating the environment where the people who are canceling are 338 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 4: not the people who actually have been promoting these theories 339 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 4: for a long time. I mean, these ideas took a 340 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 4: long time to take root. True, we go across generations 341 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 4: in this, and you know, cancel culture, which by the way, 342 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 4: it transcends campuses. You know, it's interesting if you're if 343 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 4: you're somebody with very progressive politics and you're sitting in 344 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 4: an evangelical church, for example, cancel culture is going to 345 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 4: come for you too. If you're you know, if you're 346 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 4: trying to get ahead in very populous Republican circles and 347 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 4: you have more moderate conservative viewpoints, you're going to find 348 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 4: cancel culture as well. 349 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 3: It's just really acute on college. 350 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 4: Campuses, and most ironic because this is supposed to be 351 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 4: the marketplace of ideas. You know, we're all ide You're 352 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 4: not supposed to feel safe on a college campus intellectually. 353 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 4: You're supposed to be like, ah, I have heard something 354 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 4: I really disagree with and now I'm. 355 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 3: Going to engage. And that's it's especially. 356 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 4: Troublesome when on a college campus we will have this 357 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 4: particular campus culture. But it's the young people that can 358 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 4: actually solve this problem. 359 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: How do you fight against the forces of fear and hate? 360 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: Because I know that you write that happiness takes work, 361 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 1: right and discipline and focus. You can't expect it to 362 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: just happen. And so for us on a day to 363 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: day basis, how do we try to get out of 364 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: that kind of angry, enraged state that seems to be 365 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: part and parcel of our daily existence. 366 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such a great question. And here's the good news. 367 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 4: There's actually a way to do this that all of 368 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 4: us can practice in our own lives, and we can 369 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 4: do it to you know, make manifest in our country 370 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 4: and or make our world a little bit better. You know, 371 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 4: there's a famous, you know, Bible verse that says perfect 372 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 4: love drives out fear. But that's an ancient idea. Five 373 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 4: hundred years before that was in you know, the New 374 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 4: Testament of the Bible. Lausu, you know, the founder of 375 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 4: Taoist philosophy, said exactly the same thing. And what they 376 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,880 Speaker 4: were talking about is what we have learned as social 377 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 4: scientists and people in the world of neuroscience have found 378 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 4: that these are neutralizing factors on each other. That fear 379 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 4: will neutralize love, but love will neutralize fear as well. 380 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 4: We don't have to fight against fear. We simply need 381 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 4: to have more love. 382 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: All right, Give me an example, because this does sound 383 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: sort of woo woo to me, Arthur like, so, so 384 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: play this out in real time, in real life. 385 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, So this is what I do when I go 386 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 3: on college campuses. 387 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 4: I say, look, do you want to do you want 388 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 4: to weaken the forces of fear in your life and 389 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 4: on your campus. You need to make friends with somebody 390 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 4: with whom you disagree. 391 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 3: You need to go on social media and. 392 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 4: Say five loving things where other people are expressing hate. 393 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 4: To go out of your way like a missionary, bringing 394 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 4: love on purpose, even when it's uncomfortable. And then I 395 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 4: take it up a notch, right, because one of the 396 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 4: things that you see in a fear based culture. Very interestingly, 397 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 4: people in their twenties today are a third less likely 398 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 4: to say they're in love than you and I did 399 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 4: when we were that when we were that age in 400 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 4: the nineteen eighties, So what's up with that? And the 401 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 4: answer is fear is driving out love. So what I 402 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 4: do is I say, Okay, do you want to treat 403 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 4: your life like an entrepreneur, like a real startup, then 404 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 4: the currency of the explosion of wealth in your life 405 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 4: is actually love, and that means you need to take 406 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 4: a risk, just like an entrepreneur does. 407 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 3: So I'll assign him. 408 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 4: I was doing a graduation speech not long ago, and 409 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 4: I said, here's your homework. Friends, you got two weeks. 410 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 4: You need to go tell somebody that you I have 411 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 4: to say I love you. And again, maybe it's a 412 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 4: family member with whom you've become a strange maybe somebody 413 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,399 Speaker 4: you're secretly in love with. Maybe it's a friend and 414 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 4: you just don't talk to each other that way. If 415 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,239 Speaker 4: it's not uncomfortable and scary, it's not entrepreneurial enough. And 416 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 4: the crazy thing is I get tons of feedback saying 417 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 4: game changer, game changer in my relationships, in my life, 418 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 4: and in the lives of the people that I'm touching. 419 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,360 Speaker 4: We need more people that are willing to say, get 420 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 4: you know what, I love you. 421 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: Well, that's one thing to say to someone in your 422 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: family or your spouse or your friends who you don't see. 423 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: But what about someone who is angry and mean and 424 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: throwing arrows and daggers into your heart? 425 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 2: How do you? 426 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: I do agree with you that that comes from fear, 427 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: This anger comes from fear or hate. 428 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 2: But how do you neutralize that? 429 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 4: So that's a very good question that Martin Luther King answered, 430 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 4: And you gave a very famous sermon in nineteen fifty seven, 431 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 4: So I want to turn your attention to this subject 432 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 4: loving your inemy November seventeenth, nineteen fifty seven, of the 433 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 4: Dexter Street Baptist Church, Montgomery, Alabama. 434 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: What's that purse you good to them? 435 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 4: That very famous sermon on the Gospel of Matthew, chapter five, 436 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 4: verse forty four, famous one. 437 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: Love your enemy. 438 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 2: Something that we talk about and has not man an 439 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 2: emotional something, loves, creative, understanding, good wills at all. 440 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 3: It is a refusal to any individual. 441 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 4: Because that's the question you're asking me, Katie, how do 442 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 4: you love your enemies? 443 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 3: And here's what he said. Here's what doctor King said. 444 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 4: Weird, right, Jesus didn't say like your enemies because to 445 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 4: like is a sentimental something, and there's lots of people 446 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 4: we all don't like. Those are the people insulting you 447 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 4: on social media. Those are the people who are wishing 448 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 4: you ill. Those are people who are unfair and uncivilized. 449 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 3: I got it. 450 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 4: I got it in my life. You got them in 451 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 4: your life. Everybody watching us or listening to us has 452 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 4: them in their lives. But to love is a decision, 453 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,120 Speaker 4: it's a commitment. It's the only way that we can 454 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 4: actually create some redemption. So the famous philosopher Thomas Aquinas 455 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 4: he said that to love is to will the good 456 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 4: of the other. 457 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 3: He didn't say it feel anything. 458 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 4: You cannot make the decision to like somebody, but you 459 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 4: can make the decision to love somebody, because that's an 460 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 4: action and you have to act in a particular way. 461 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 3: It's hard. This is the hard teaching. 462 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 4: But we're really up for it because what you find 463 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 4: on all of the research on this is when people 464 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 4: start to act out of love, even when they don't 465 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 4: feel it, they actually start to do it on their own. 466 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 4: The Dalai Lama one time told me, you know, I 467 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 4: asked him, how do I love when I don't feel love? 468 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 3: He basically told me to fake it. 469 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 2: Fake it till you make it. 470 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 3: The Dali Lama. 471 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 4: Look, he's the world's most respected religious figure, and he's 472 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 4: completely full of love. If the Dalai Lama says that 473 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 4: we can fake it till we make it when it 474 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 4: comes to love, I gotta believe it. 475 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: After the Break, it's Striver's Anonymous Arthur shares how to 476 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: break a striver's cycle and find a new kind of fulfillment. 477 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: That's right after this. I want to talk to you 478 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: about your book because as a sixty five year old 479 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: who has enjoyed some success in my life, I'm fascinated 480 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,959 Speaker 1: about sort of how to continue to find fulfillment. And 481 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: I'm the confession Arthur, what's that. I'm Katie and I'm 482 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: a striver. I know you are, and I am sort 483 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: of the quintessential person that you talk about in your book, 484 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,919 Speaker 1: someone who always is looking for the next thing. And 485 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: when I saw you give that talk at the Aspen 486 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 1: Ideas Festival. 487 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 2: I realize this is not all me. 488 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: A lot of it is sort of my brain and 489 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: dopamine and adrenaline that causes me to want more and 490 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: more and more, to keep succeeding, to keep striving, but 491 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: to keep accomplishing right, And it's striving me crazy. 492 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I know, you and me both. 493 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 4: I mean, it's like like you've had this legendary career 494 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 4: which you continue to have and and everybody says, look, 495 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 4: if I could be if I could be half as 496 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 4: successful as Katie Kurk, i'd automatically be happy. 497 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 3: But here's the thing. Here's the crazy thing. 498 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 4: Everybody thinks they want to be happy and successful, but 499 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 4: if they can only be one, they should be successful 500 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 4: because then the automatically be happy, and that is incorrect. 501 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 4: On the contrary, if you're happy, you'll feel successful and 502 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 4: you get both. Here's the problem with that. Our world 503 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 4: doesn't do that. Remember, money power pleasure fame. Money power 504 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 4: pleasure fame is that it's and if you start to 505 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 4: get to some success, your brain changes. A little bit 506 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,959 Speaker 4: of brain science and you've heard me talk about this 507 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 4: and it's not very complicated, but it's worth pointing out 508 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 4: that when people are really addicted to success, their brain 509 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 4: does more or less the same is when they're getting 510 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 4: addicted to gambling or methamphetamine. You become very good at 511 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 4: producing dopamine, which is it's called a neuromodulator. And what 512 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 4: dopamine does is it doesn't give you pleasure, it gives 513 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 4: you anticipation of a reward. That's why when people get 514 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 4: addicted to drugs or alcohol, or gambling or pornography or 515 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 4: any of these bad things that takeover people's lives and 516 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 4: hurt them, it's because they have all this anticipation and 517 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 4: they get craving. Now, when people are really successful, money power, pleasure, fame, 518 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 4: their brain gives them dopamine in anticipation of those rewards. 519 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 4: And when you get really good at it, because I 520 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 4: don't know, just hypothetically, let's say you're Katie Curic. 521 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 3: Well, then guess what happens. A little is not enough. 522 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: Your threshold keeps getting more and more and more and more. 523 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 4: Right, the treadmill starts going at terrifying speed. 524 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: You call it the hedonic treadmill. 525 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 3: Exactly right now. 526 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 4: There's a process in the brain called homeostasis. It's a 527 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 4: complicated word with a simple idea. That is to say, 528 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 4: your brain resets, I'm going to be so happy when 529 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 4: I get that car. I'm going to be You're so 530 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 4: happy when I get that watch or that shirt, of 531 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 4: that relationship or that achievement. And then you reset almost immediately. 532 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 4: You think your brain tells you because mother nature lies 533 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 4: that you're going to actually be satisfied forever. You're actually 534 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 4: satisfied for a minute or maybe a week or I 535 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 4: don't know, ten days on the outside, and then it's 536 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 4: off to the races again. 537 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 3: Run, run, run, run run. That's what we all have 538 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 3: to dominate. 539 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 4: And people who've had a lot of success, that's great 540 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 4: because these are the people. I mean, look, think of 541 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 4: all the good things you've done for me, because I've 542 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 4: been watching you for a year, you've informed me you've 543 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 4: made my life better. But that doesn't mean that along 544 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 4: the way that has made you happy. So what we 545 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 4: all need to do with our own kind of success 546 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 4: addiction And nobody's watching you right now, nobody's going to 547 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 4: be watching your show. Who's not a little bit of 548 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 4: a striver. I know your audience that we all can 549 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 4: actually dominate the system by not going with the flow. 550 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 4: Your brain says, go more, do more, hit the lever, 551 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 4: hit the lever, get the cookie. 552 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 3: You need to stand up to that and behave in 553 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 3: a different way. You need to do the opposite thing. 554 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 4: That's what the research says, and so that's probably what 555 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 4: we need to talk. 556 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: About, right What is the opposite thing. 557 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 4: The opposite thing is not to have more. The opposite 558 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 4: thing is to want less. Now, I know it sounds weird, 559 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 4: but here's the way to think about it. Satisfaction finally 560 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 4: scratching that itch, finally being satisfied is not doesn't just 561 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 4: come from having more, doing more, seeing more, getting more. 562 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 4: It's what you have divided by what you want. Now, 563 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 4: everybody remembers a little tiny bit in the recesses of 564 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 4: their mind about their high school fractions, and you remember 565 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 4: that if you've got halves divided by wants, there's two 566 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 4: ways to increase that number. Increase the halves or decrease 567 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 4: the wants. Here's the deal. We actually have the power 568 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 4: to want less. We don't have to become a Buddhist monk. 569 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 4: I mean, if you want to, that's great. You know, 570 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 4: go study in the cave. That's fantastic, or go to 571 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 4: you know, a hill land retreat. I've done it. I 572 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 4: recommend it. It's fantastic, But you don't have to do it. 573 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 4: The key thing is to think about your wants to 574 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 4: not be managed by your wants. 575 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 3: I have a. 576 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 4: Reverse bucket list. The bucket list is all about halves. 577 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 4: The reverse bucket list is all about wants, and when 578 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 4: I do on my birthday, Katie, and I recommend everybody's 579 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 4: I make a list of all my cravings. All I'll 580 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 4: finally be happy if I have this. I'll finally be 581 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 4: happy if my book sells this number and I have 582 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 4: or I do this thing on TV, whatever it happens 583 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 4: to be. Everybody's got their thing. I get the car, 584 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 4: I get whoever. You make a list of all those cravings, 585 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,479 Speaker 4: and you say I might get it and I might not. 586 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 4: Easy companies you go. That's moved the appetite, the craving, 587 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 4: the desire from your automatic brain to your human brain 588 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 4: to call the prefrontal cortex, and there you can manage 589 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 4: your cravings. If you're conscious of them, you can manage them. 590 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 4: It's not perfect, but you'll be amazed at how much 591 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 4: more satisfying you will find ordinary life when you looking 592 00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 4: at the small things. 593 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 3: And look. I follow you on social media, and you know. 594 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 4: You're putting on social media pictures from your garden. 595 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 3: I love that, like your flowers and your garden, Katie. 596 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 4: I love that it's so beautiful on Instagram that you 597 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 4: do that. That's you enjoying the small. Now to do 598 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 4: that more, you actually have to be conscious of your 599 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 4: worldly wants and manage them in that particular way. It's unnatural, 600 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 4: but we all can do it. 601 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: It's interesting because you talk about preparing for the second 602 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 1: half of your life, finding success, happiness, and deep purpose 603 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: in the second half of your life is the subtitle 604 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: from Strength to Strength. And I think you posit that 605 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: you really are your most successful really by the time 606 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: you're forty or say fifty, that you have fluid intelligence 607 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: then and then you move to something called crystallized intelligence. 608 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: Explain that Earth, because I know what you mean, but 609 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: I think for people who haven't read the book, explain 610 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: what you mean. 611 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, so there are two kinds of basic intelligen So 612 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 4: the world tells you you get one big act. That's 613 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 4: the world tells you get really really good at what 614 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 4: you do, be really successful at what you do, and 615 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 4: if you're lucky, you can keep it going forever. 616 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 3: You can't keep it going forever. 617 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 4: Now, if you're an athlete, you know that, right, If 618 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 4: you're you know, you're Tom Brady, maybe you can keep 619 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 4: going forever. But the rest of us mortals can't keep 620 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 4: you know going. And you know, I actually have interviewed 621 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 4: Olympic athletes and talk to people, and they're they're very 622 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 4: much in touch with the fact that they can't keep 623 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 4: going on forever. 624 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 3: But it's still really painful. 625 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 4: Now. The interesting thing that the research finds is that 626 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 4: that thinking professions, knowledge professions, whether a doctor or a lawyer, 627 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 4: or a financial professional or an electrician or lots of 628 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 4: things that you tend to get better and better and 629 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 4: better through your twenties and thirties and then max out 630 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 4: and then you're not quite as good as you used 631 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 4: to be. And that's what burnout actually comes from. You know, 632 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 4: your dentist, who suddenly, weirdly at age forty five, says, 633 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 4: I think I'm going to take Fridays off to golf, 634 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 4: Like what the heck? 635 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 3: You loved being a dentist. It's like, I don't know, 636 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 3: I'm just less interested. 637 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 4: That's because your dentist isn't progressing and can't put her 638 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 4: finger on why she's not as good a dentist. 639 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 2: Thank you for making my dentist a woman. 640 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's like, my dentist is a woman 641 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 4: and she's phenomenal. Right, I don't know if she's actually 642 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 4: I don't think she's forty five yet. But the point is, 643 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 4: I hope she reads my book. I'm gonna take her copy. 644 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 4: And so this is this is an important thing to 645 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 4: keep our to keep our eye on, because a lot 646 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 4: of people start panicking at this point and think, oh, 647 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 4: oh no, Well, the truth is this is the time 648 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 4: to celebrate because there's another intelligence that comes in behind 649 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 4: it that's not about hard work and focus and and 650 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 4: you know, living on the edge of the curve, innovative capacity, 651 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 4: working memory, all the. 652 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 3: Stuff that made you good at what you did. It's 653 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 3: about wisdom. 654 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 4: It's about knowledge about how to explain ideas, is how 655 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 4: to teach. It's to go from innovator to instructor. And 656 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 4: everybody can do that in their own way. I've seen 657 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 4: you do this in your career. This is the most 658 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 4: interesting thing. What are you now, your teacher? This is 659 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 4: what we're doing. You're introducing your audience to big ideas 660 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 4: that can act actually enrich them. 661 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 3: What are you? 662 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 4: You're your professor curic Now this is you've naturally moved 663 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 4: on to this crystallized intelligence curve, and everybody can. There's 664 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 4: a transformation if you're willing to take it. The people 665 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 4: who are unhappy or living in the past. The people 666 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 4: who are happy, they jump onto this wisdom curve. I'm 667 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 4: going to teach, I'm going to mentor I'm going to 668 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 4: lead teams. So if you're a startup entrepreneur and that's 669 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 4: fluid intelligence. If you're a venture capitalist, crystallized intelligence. If 670 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 4: you're a star litigator, fluid, if you're a managing partner, 671 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 4: crystallized You know, I used to do highly mathematical research 672 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 4: papers on my flud intelligence curve. Now I write for 673 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 4: The Atlantic and I talk to you crystallized intelligence, and 674 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 4: I'm happy. I'm happier than I've ever been because I'm 675 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 4: on the right curve. 676 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,719 Speaker 1: I think about professional athletes, I think about CEOs, I 677 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: think about honestly, President Obama, like how do they shift 678 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: from sort of being in the epicenter, the white hot 679 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: center of everything, where they have huge responsibility and all 680 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: eyes are on them and then shift into a different 681 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: mode without feeling that their best years are behind them? 682 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: Because I do think about, you know, like, how do 683 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 1: people manage that? 684 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's very hard. The more success you have, 685 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 4: the harder it is. And for a couple of different reasons, 686 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 4: you're not quite sure that second curve is there. I mean, 687 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 4: you're taking it on faith from a Harvard professor. That's 688 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 4: one thing, actually jumping, that's something else. The second is 689 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 4: you know a lot of people just love that first curve. 690 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 4: And the reason they like it is because they get 691 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 4: all these honors, They get all this they get all 692 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 4: this admiration, they get all this prestige from it. 693 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 3: And the more successful and famous. 694 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 4: You are, the harder it is actually to say goodbye 695 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 4: to those particular things. But the happy people are actually 696 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 4: able to make that shift. They have the presence of mind. 697 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 3: Now. 698 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 4: One of the things that makes it much easier is 699 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 4: they tend to be accompanied by somebody who loves them. 700 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 3: This is one of the things that you actually find. 701 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 4: And so whether it's a best friend, whether it's a spouse, 702 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 4: whether it's your adult children, you need somebody who takes 703 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 4: you by the hand and says, you know what, and 704 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 4: this is you know, my wife did this for me. 705 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 3: My wife esther. 706 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 4: We've been already thirty one years now, and and you 707 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 4: know she said I was retiring. It was a CEO, 708 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 4: you know, But I did this research and I had 709 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,760 Speaker 4: to stop because I saw the writing was on the wall. 710 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 4: I was not getting better at what I was doing, 711 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 4: and so I said, I got to get on the 712 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 4: second curve. I know it's out there. And she took 713 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 4: me by the hand and said, it's okay. I love you. 714 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 4: You're the father of my children and the love of 715 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 4: my life, and whether you're successful in worldly terms or not, 716 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 4: I love you all the same. And that is so 717 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 4: critically important because a lot of people were stuck on 718 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 4: that fluid intelligence curve. On that first curve, They're like, 719 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 4: I'm nothing, I am dead. If I'm not number one, 720 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 4: if I'm not the striver, if I'm not the homo economicus, 721 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 4: you know, if I'm not the. 722 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 3: Hardest marker in the room. Right, you need people who 723 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 3: love you. That's really really critical. 724 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:07,720 Speaker 1: I'm wondering, though, if you're inadvertently contributing to the last 725 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: acceptable ism in society, and that's agism. You know, I 726 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: know that the CEO of Target just said, I'm sixty five. 727 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: I'm not retiring. And I wonder if with this second 728 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 1: phase of life, if you're sort of saying to the world, Arthur, 729 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: you know, if you're not under fifty, you don't have 730 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: fluid intelligence, you're not at the top of your game. 731 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 1: You need to go into this second stage of life 732 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: and you need to leave leave the stage. 733 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 2: I mean, do you think about that? 734 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:44,439 Speaker 3: I do? 735 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 4: But you know what, I actually I'm feathering my own 736 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 4: nest as I get older. I'm fifty eight years old, 737 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 4: and I want to be working for a long time, 738 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,479 Speaker 4: but where I'm best suited to work. 739 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 3: So this is the key thing. Here's what I have 740 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 3: this view, Katie. 741 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 4: You know what, I look at these Silicon Valley firms, 742 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 4: these tech firms and social media firms and all that, 743 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 4: and they're making all these errors that older executives just 744 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,800 Speaker 4: shake their heads, like how do they make that error? 745 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 4: The reason is because all fluid intelligence, no crystallized intelligence. 746 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 3: In other words, it's all brains, no wisdom. 747 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 4: And that's a big problem because they're making all the 748 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 4: mistakes that all the older guys and women they made 749 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 4: a thousand years ago in their careers. My view is 750 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,760 Speaker 4: that we need way more people in positions of leadership 751 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 4: or over seventy that's my view, using their crystallized intelligence, 752 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 4: not relying on their fluid intelligence. 753 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 3: You know, that's what we need. 754 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 4: I think every executive team, every C suite needs somebody 755 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 4: over seventy. 756 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,960 Speaker 3: Every marketing team, every product team, these. 757 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 4: Social media companies, they need old people who actually can 758 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 4: say so. My view is that no, on the contrary, 759 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 4: this is the permanent employment plan for us, as long 760 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 4: as we're actually doing it right and not trying to 761 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 4: live in the past. 762 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 3: Is the way that it works. 763 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: The infetus, I guess for this book was when you 764 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: were sitting in an airplane and you were listening to 765 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: a really sad and upsetting conversation an older gentleman talking 766 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: to his wife saying, my life is over. I kind 767 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: of wish I were dead, and you take it from there. 768 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 4: Yeah, So, you know, I was kind of in a 769 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 4: tender point in my life. You know, I had been 770 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 4: running this think tank in Washington, d C. It had 771 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 4: been going really, really well, but I was wondering, you know, 772 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:22,439 Speaker 4: what is the cadence of my own life? 773 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 3: Where am I going? Where does this? I just do 774 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 3: it again and do it again, and do it again and. 775 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 4: Then stop and they just hope for the best, and 776 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 4: you know, hanging around the house, I don't know, you know, 777 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 4: ten years, fifteen years from hour is going to go. 778 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 4: And I was kind of contemplating it existentially, and when 779 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 4: I heard this conversation. I overheard it. Now, as a 780 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 4: behavioral social scientist, my laboratory is the overheard conversation. So 781 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 4: for everybody watching and listening to us right now, if 782 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 4: you're behind me in a Starbucks confessing that somebody broke 783 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,879 Speaker 4: your heart, keep your voice down because I might write 784 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 4: a book about it anyway. So I hear this conversation 785 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 4: with this couple behind me on the plane, in this 786 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 4: key moment in my own life. And you know, he's 787 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 4: kind of mumbling by here, his wife saying, oh, don't 788 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 4: say it would be better if you were dead, And 789 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 4: I'm like, holy moly, I wasn't I'm not eavesdropping. But 790 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 4: this is big and and and she's trying to console him, 791 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,839 Speaker 4: and he's really unconsolable the fact that nobody cares about him, 792 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 4: nobody's listening to him. Okay, so we land at the airport. 793 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 4: This is a night flight. We land at the airport 794 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 4: at our destination. Everybody stands up and the lights go 795 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 4: on and and we turn around. I wanted to see him. 796 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 4: I just wanted to see his face. And it was 797 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 4: one of the most famous successful men. 798 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 3: In the world. 799 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 4: This is somebody that everybody knows now what. He's a 800 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 4: hero from decades past. Is not some controversial actor you know, 801 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 4: or you know, a politician, No, no, no, this is 802 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,760 Speaker 4: this is somebody who did big things that we all admire. 803 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 4: And and you know it's in his late eighties, and 804 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 4: and and. 805 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:46,879 Speaker 3: And he's he's confessing this thing. 806 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 4: So we're walking out of the airplane, and the pilot, 807 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:50,879 Speaker 4: you know how, they all stand by the cockpit door thing, 808 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 4: thanks for flying United folks. And he stops the guy 809 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,439 Speaker 4: who's right behind me blowing my mind at this point 810 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 4: because you know, the whole model of success is wrong. 811 00:38:59,320 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 3: Okay. 812 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 4: If I could half as successful as that guy, I'd 813 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 4: be automatically happy over the moon. Right, No, wrong, okay. 814 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 4: So he sees the guy, the hero on the plane 815 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 4: and he says, sir, you've been my hero since I 816 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,839 Speaker 4: was a little boy. And I turn around and he's 817 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 4: beaming with pride. And I asked myself, so which is it? 818 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 4: Is it this one or the one half an hour ago? 819 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 4: And I thought to myself, our model of success and 820 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 4: happiness is wrong. In truth, the data are very clear. 821 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 4: The people who tend to be most disappointed with their 822 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 4: lives after seventy and eighty are the ones who are 823 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 4: most successful early on, and the reason is because they 824 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 4: can't live up to their own standards. They're addicted to 825 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 4: success and now the party's over and they if you look, 826 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 4: if you don't do anything with your life, you won't 827 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 4: know when the party's over. But boy, oh boy, if 828 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 4: you do a lot, you're really gonna know. And I said, 829 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 4: I'm going in search of the secret to be both 830 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 4: successful and happy. 831 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 3: And that's what this book is. It's the book that 832 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 3: I needed in my life. I wrote it for you too. 833 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,479 Speaker 4: I'm actually writing a book right now about the things 834 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 4: I wish I I knew when I was twenty five, 835 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 4: which is the Science of Happiness for the Young Driver 836 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 4: that's coming next. But I didn't get that book because 837 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,319 Speaker 4: that book hadn't been written yet. And I've really lived 838 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 4: according to it. And you can be successful and happy, 839 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 4: but you can't leave it up to chance. I mean, 840 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 4: mother nature is not going to take you in that direction. 841 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: And so what do you think the guy sitting behind 842 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: you in the airplane did wrong. 843 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 4: What he was doing was he was reliving past glory 844 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 4: and wishing that he could keep that alive forever. And 845 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 4: it turns out that's very common. In the book, I 846 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 4: talk about the case of Charles Darwin, you know, the 847 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 4: great naturalist, and everybody knows what a hero, what a 848 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,520 Speaker 4: great figure he was. He'd bury at Westminster Abbey because 849 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,399 Speaker 4: he's such a national hero. He died an unhappy man, 850 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 4: and the reason is because he kind of got to 851 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 4: the end of his fluid intelligence. 852 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 3: He wanted to stay on that curve. 853 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,839 Speaker 4: He never moved curves, and he spent the last twenty 854 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 4: five years of his life kind of regretting the fact 855 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 4: that he couldn't make any more progress, and he didn't 856 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,839 Speaker 4: enjoy his research, and he felt kind of washed up 857 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 4: and kind of like a loser. Charles Darwin, one of 858 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 4: the greatest naturalists scientists who's ever lived, died unhappy for 859 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 4: the same reason that so many people do. If I 860 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 4: could talk to any of these people, I would talk 861 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 4: about the structure of the brain, that how the fluid 862 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,319 Speaker 4: intelligence goes to the crystallized intelligence, and happiness is right 863 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 4: in front of them if they're willing to grab it 864 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 4: and change their own lives. 865 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: How do they recognize, or how does anyone recognize when 866 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: it's time to jump to the second curve? That your 867 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: fluid intelligent is drying up right, and you need to 868 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: go for the crystallized intelligence, and you need to make 869 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: that shift not only in your head, but in your 870 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: heart and in your habits. 871 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 3: To begin with. 872 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 4: It's a really good idea to understand this before you 873 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:48,839 Speaker 4: need it, right, And. 874 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 3: Not all of us do, I mean not all of 875 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 3: us have. 876 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 4: Been able to have that, but you know everybody's listening 877 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 4: to us who's thirty and as a striver and you 878 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 4: know who you are right to start thinking, I'm doing 879 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 4: this right now and I'm in this a great party. 880 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 4: But while with the crystallized version of what I'm good at, 881 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 4: what might it look like? Just to kind of visualize 882 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,320 Speaker 4: it a little bit, because twenty years from now you 883 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 4: might want to be thinking about that. 884 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 3: You don't have to change careers. 885 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 4: Necessarily, although that's not out of the question either, but 886 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 4: what might it look like? 887 00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 3: What's your flight of fancy? What would give you joy 888 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 3: to think about? This? 889 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 4: Really a crystallized kind of kind of skill, that's number one. 890 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 4: But the key thing is that that that that people 891 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:31,280 Speaker 4: need to they'll see that the fluid intelligence hasn't declined 892 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,280 Speaker 4: way before anybody else does, and the tell is burnout. 893 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 4: That's the tell. You know, when people start saying, I 894 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 4: used to like this more than than I do. Now 895 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,439 Speaker 4: this used to excite me more than it does now, 896 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 4: that means you're not making progress. People are wired for progress. 897 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 4: Human beings get no pleasure from the status quo. We're 898 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 4: not wired for It's very interesting, you know. One of 899 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 4: the things that I've studied is is you know diets. 900 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 4: Diets have a ninety five percent failure rate, right, I mean, 901 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 4: what industry can continue to exist? It exists on hope, 902 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 4: not results. Now here's the thing. Dieting is pretty easy, 903 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 4: but keeping weight off is near impossible. The reason is 904 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 4: because you're perfectly willing to forego the food that you 905 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 4: love as long as the scale is going down, because 906 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,759 Speaker 4: you know that the happiness from the scale going down 907 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 4: is higher than the unhappiness from not eating scones or 908 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 4: donuts or something like that. 909 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 2: But then when you reach your goal weight. 910 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 4: The reward is you never get to eat ever again 911 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 4: what you like. That's not a very nice reward, and 912 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 4: so people abandon the diet. That's all about progress. People 913 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 4: love progress, but the state is quo is terrible. So 914 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 4: you're going to notice, you know, maybe forty forty five, fifty, 915 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 4: whatever happens to be, I like it less. That's when 916 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 4: it's time to start thinking about that second curve. That's 917 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 4: when it's time to start thinking about the reverse bucket list. 918 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 4: So you're not adding adding adding, that's when it start. 919 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,880 Speaker 4: It's time to actually think about who's going to hold 920 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 4: me by the hand, who is in part of my 921 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,160 Speaker 4: root system. That's when it's time to start thinking, what 922 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,960 Speaker 4: are the friendships that I actually need? What are the 923 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 4: spiritual relationships that I can actually cultivate? And if you 924 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 4: do these things, that's why I wrote the book, this 925 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,240 Speaker 4: could be the greatest, most joyful adventure in life. 926 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:13,840 Speaker 3: This is the best time of life. 927 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,080 Speaker 4: But if you don't do it, it's like walking through 928 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 4: a forest at night with no guide and no flashlight. 929 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 1: What are things every person can do to kind of 930 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:30,200 Speaker 1: have a more fulfilling, purposeful life that has more love 931 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:36,239 Speaker 1: than fear, right, and that that can just sort of 932 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: feed you in a way with all the right things 933 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,120 Speaker 1: and not all the wrong things. 934 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:42,439 Speaker 3: Yeah. 935 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,600 Speaker 4: No, The couple of things to keep in mind. The 936 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 4: first is that all these things that I write, all 937 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,840 Speaker 4: these things that I teach, that I'm privileged to be 938 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 4: able to talk to you about all these things are 939 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,120 Speaker 4: accessible to everybody. You don't need to be a nerd 940 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 4: with a phdu teaches at Harvard to actually learn about 941 00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,279 Speaker 4: these ideas. I write about this in the Atlantic because 942 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,279 Speaker 4: I want to bring the these ideas to millions of 943 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 4: people in relatively non technical terms. You don't have to 944 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,439 Speaker 4: be a technical specialist to understand that. But you got 945 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 4: to do the work. Wishing is not enough. Just wishing 946 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:12,919 Speaker 4: you were happier will make you unhappier because you'll focus 947 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 4: on your unhappiness. But if you do the work that's habits, 948 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,359 Speaker 4: not hacks, committing yourself to living in a better way, 949 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 4: in a newer way, this is magic. That's part one. 950 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,840 Speaker 4: Part two is this. You got to practice these things. 951 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,760 Speaker 4: You can't just learn about these You got to practice 952 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,239 Speaker 4: these things in your life. I can teach you that 953 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 4: gratitude is one of the greatest tricks, but it's not enough. 954 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 3: For to be a trick. It's got to be a 955 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:37,120 Speaker 3: way of life. 956 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 4: And so practice these things and committing yourself to doing 957 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 4: it is like going to the gym, not once, it's 958 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:44,919 Speaker 4: going to the gym five days a week or four 959 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,560 Speaker 4: days a week or whatever happens to be, and then 960 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,400 Speaker 4: you start to see a transformation, you enjoy it. In 961 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,399 Speaker 4: a last but not least, you got to share these ideas. Look, 962 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 4: we've talked about a whole bunch of science and very 963 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 4: accessible terms. Here's what I would wish that will really 964 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,399 Speaker 4: help a lot of people who are watching us to 965 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 4: make these ideas come to life. Find three people that 966 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,239 Speaker 4: you love and if you need to watch our conversation 967 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 4: again and take notes and go teach these things. You 968 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,440 Speaker 4: know what that'll do is it'll move them from an 969 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,440 Speaker 4: impression to the executive center of your brain. You know, 970 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 4: becoming a teacher is the best possible way to absorb ideas. 971 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,960 Speaker 4: My father was a mathematician. He said, I only understood 972 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,799 Speaker 4: math when I had taught calculus fifty times, you know. 973 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 4: And the truth is, we can all be happiness teachers. 974 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,880 Speaker 4: And the more that we are bringing these secrets in 975 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,760 Speaker 4: a spirit of love and sisterhood and brotherhood to everybody 976 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,120 Speaker 4: we possibly can, the happier we're going to get. In 977 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 4: other words, understand practice and share a. 978 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,399 Speaker 1: Lot of this is in the book. You talk about 979 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,799 Speaker 1: living in the present, but that takes discipline. You know, 980 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 1: and I think you say. Someone said we shouldn't be 981 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,359 Speaker 1: called homo sapiens, we should be called homo prospectives. 982 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,880 Speaker 4: That means we're always in the future and we're not 983 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 4: really presient right now. Yeah, exactly. And that takes, you know, 984 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:00,600 Speaker 4: take it takes a little bit of effort. There's a 985 00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 4: whole mindfulness meditation movement going on out there, but it 986 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,400 Speaker 4: really isn't that complicated. 987 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:07,920 Speaker 3: You got to you have. 988 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,880 Speaker 4: To be alive now, you know, when you're washing the dishes, 989 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 4: say I'm washing the dishes. Now, don't distract yourself from everything. 990 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 4: When you're on the train, look out the window and 991 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,919 Speaker 4: actually be on the train at that particular moment. That's 992 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,839 Speaker 4: the real magic of mindfulness that I've found. And it's 993 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,759 Speaker 4: really quite transformed my life. Katie's when I found because 994 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 4: I saw theoretically in the literature is going to make 995 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:28,880 Speaker 4: me happier, and now. 996 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 3: I do it. 997 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,880 Speaker 4: I go on these walks for an hour with no devices, 998 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,400 Speaker 4: and I smell the morning air and I stop when 999 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,520 Speaker 4: I look at flowers. I'm telling you, I mean, it's 1000 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,239 Speaker 4: just it sounds so dumb. I'm a fifty eight year 1001 00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 4: old man. I should know this at this point, it's 1002 00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:43,400 Speaker 4: just the best. 1003 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,520 Speaker 1: When I read about that, I also thought, Yes, I 1004 00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,439 Speaker 1: want to live in the moment, but I also want 1005 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 1: to care about the future. Yeah, I want to be 1006 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:57,400 Speaker 1: a concerned citizen who is focused on helping people preserve 1007 00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,480 Speaker 1: the planet. Right, So, how do those things work in tandem? 1008 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,359 Speaker 4: You're much better at actually thinking clearly about a better 1009 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 4: future when you're fully. 1010 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 3: Present right now. 1011 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 4: The reason is because your love relationships blossom you appreciate 1012 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:13,759 Speaker 4: the things that you're actually seeing. You don't have a 1013 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,839 Speaker 4: full appreciation for the people and the things around you 1014 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,600 Speaker 4: unless you're fully mindful right now, and as such, you 1015 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,480 Speaker 4: won't be able to create a future. You won't be 1016 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,920 Speaker 4: able to envision a future that actually is better than 1017 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,080 Speaker 4: the status quo. Here are the best news about being 1018 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:33,480 Speaker 4: here now. It makes you better in the future as well. 1019 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: A big thank you to my guest Arthur C. 1020 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:36,040 Speaker 3: Brooks. 1021 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,960 Speaker 1: You can find many of his happiness insights at The 1022 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,440 Speaker 1: Atlantic and go check out his book From Strength to 1023 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:51,280 Speaker 1: Strength to start living your best life now. Next Question 1024 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,280 Speaker 1: with Katie Kirk is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie 1025 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,120 Speaker 1: Kirk Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kirk, and 1026 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,200 Speaker 1: Courtney Ltz. The super producer as Lauren Hanson, Associate producers 1027 00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:07,239 Speaker 1: Derek Clements and Adriana Fazio. The show is edited and 1028 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,440 Speaker 1: mixed by Derek Clements. For more information about today's episode, 1029 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 1: or to sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Upcall, 1030 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,200 Speaker 1: go to Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me 1031 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,960 Speaker 1: at Katiekuric on Instagram and all my social media channels. 1032 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:26,800 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 1033 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,120 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.