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Speaker 1: Drew Harwell is an actual recognized authority on various things technologically,

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Speaker 1: covers technology and artificial intelligence for The Washington Post and

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Speaker 1: joins US Now to talk about the coming facial recognition

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Speaker 1: wave across America. Hey, Drew, how are you? Hey? Guy's good?

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Speaker 1: How are you good? That was an extremely worthy introduction,

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Speaker 1: but I had pulled it off. So listen. I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of us have followed some of the documentaries

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Speaker 1: about facial recognition in China and it's it's pretty cool

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Speaker 1: in a weird way, but pretty scary. What's the newest

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Speaker 1: on facial recognition in the US? Yeah, I mean you're

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Speaker 1: seeing it everywhere. You're seeing it in um schools and companies,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's still sort of rare, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's increasing pretty quickly. And the big sort of new

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Speaker 1: front is for police departments in sheriff's office, where they

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Speaker 1: are allowing sort of deputies and investigators to use it

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Speaker 1: to identify people that they meet out on on the

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Speaker 1: streets and in the field and in their way maybe

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Speaker 1: lead to new arrests and new investigations. How would that

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Speaker 1: work exactly in practicality, So you know, if somebody shoplifts

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Speaker 1: out of the store. They're often caught on security or

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Speaker 1: surveillance cameras. The people who called the police, they sort

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Speaker 1: of have the footage, but they don't have any quick

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Speaker 1: way to identify the people. So now these deputies can

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Speaker 1: just sort of take that image, run it through their

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Speaker 1: facial recognition which scans all of their sort of jail

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Speaker 1: mug shots, and you know, okay, instead of saying that

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Speaker 1: he was a guy, he's I don't know, he's about

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Speaker 1: six ft tall, probably way too und nay bonds. Well,

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Speaker 1: they just they just do the facial facial recognition thing

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Speaker 1: and say it's Jimmy Smith, he lives over here, and

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Speaker 1: you go get him. Well, does it have to be

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Speaker 1: somebody who's been in the system. Yeah, that's right. So

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Speaker 1: it's photos right now, and it's everybody who's been sort

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Speaker 1: of arrested. Will all be in the system before you know,

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Speaker 1: it will all be in the system before you know,

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Speaker 1: if we aren't already. Yeah, that's right. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: know we have to think that there are you know,

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Speaker 1: the d m V has photos on all of us

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Speaker 1: or passport photos of the databases are out there. They're

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Speaker 1: just not yet connected to those systems. But you know,

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Speaker 1: the question is could they ever be and could we

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Speaker 1: ever be identified like that? Yes? And yes, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a fine line between uh aware and paranoid, but

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Speaker 1: you know there and we reference this on the show.

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Speaker 1: Semi regularly drew that there are so many federal crimes

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Speaker 1: nobody even knows how to count them, including the regulations

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Speaker 1: you can violate which end you up in jail, and

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Speaker 1: the rest of it. And I could see a push

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Speaker 1: made that if you get a parking ticket, if you

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Speaker 1: have an overdue library book, if you do anything, you

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Speaker 1: step out a line, we just we're gonna take your picture.

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Speaker 1: That's it, and you get entered into the system, and

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Speaker 1: then everybody's in the system. Yeah, and that's not really

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Speaker 1: science fiction anymore. I mean that a way. A part

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Speaker 1: of that happens in China right now, where they have

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Speaker 1: sort of facial recognition camera set up at intersections. If

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Speaker 1: people jaywalk, it sort of takes a picture of on

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Speaker 1: it has their identity, and then they're they're named and shamed. Effectively,

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Speaker 1: their their pictures and identities are put up in these

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Speaker 1: like public squares. Is sort of like you know, moments

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Speaker 1: of embarrassment. So that's not happening here obviously, But that's

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Speaker 1: just a sign of you know, how this technology could

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Speaker 1: be used. I mean, it's it's it's a way that

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Speaker 1: deputies and police could identify any of us, um without

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Speaker 1: us really knowing or consenting. And so there's all sorts

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Speaker 1: of questions of privacy and whether we really want that

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Speaker 1: that future ahead of us. How good is it right now?

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Speaker 1: The technology on facial recognition? Is it pretty accurate most

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Speaker 1: of the time. It all depends on the quality of

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Speaker 1: the image and the images they're looking at, like their

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Speaker 1: database of facial images. Right, So if all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden does it not work, yeah, I mean that's a

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Speaker 1: good quay it really, I mean, yes, it can still

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Speaker 1: work in that and a lot of the deputies will

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Speaker 1: say like, oh, you know if even if somebody puts

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Speaker 1: on glasses or they grow out a beard, you know,

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Speaker 1: this can still tell. I mean, it really depends on

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Speaker 1: how good the images. And you know a lot of

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Speaker 1: these survey and lets photos are taken from in the

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Speaker 1: ceilings at weird angles, so those tend to be less accurate, um,

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Speaker 1: and you know they're they're taken in the darker by

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Speaker 1: you know, crappy smartphones so it all depends. But you know,

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Speaker 1: in this scenario, anything less than perfect accuracy is going

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Speaker 1: to lead to deputies potentially arresting the wrong right. Horrified

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Speaker 1: by all this, but the upsides, you know, for the

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Speaker 1: things for good. If we could do away with keys

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Speaker 1: more or less, I'd be happy that you could walk

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Speaker 1: into your building where you work with your face, or

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Speaker 1: your house, or start your car with your face. You

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Speaker 1: just don't need keys. That that'd be awesome. Drew Harwell

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Speaker 1: covers technology for the Washington Post and is on the line, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that would be kind of cool. And I think

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Speaker 1: we're moving in that direction. Hey, one thing you mentioned

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Speaker 1: in your piece, which is quite be you. You were

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Speaker 1: too fat, You didn't used to be somebody differently, let

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Speaker 1: myself go. One thing in your piece that will have

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Speaker 1: a link to so folks can find it easily is

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Speaker 1: that they've actually um run artists sketches through a software.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah. And that's not a way to see

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Speaker 1: if that looks like anybody. Yeah, And I mean you

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Speaker 1: have to wonder is that really going to give you

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Speaker 1: good results? Like you know, the system is designed to

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Speaker 1: compare one photo to the other. When you start getting

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Speaker 1: into artist sketches it. It all depends on how is

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Speaker 1: the how is the artist feeling that day, and how

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Speaker 1: good was the drawing right, and and so you know

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Speaker 1: that's gonna up the the danger of it being a

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Speaker 1: misidentification to all these people are saying we really shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be using them that in that way. But you know, Amazon,

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Speaker 1: for their point says whatever, I mean, this is a

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Speaker 1: tool for the deputies. They get to decide. It's it's

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Speaker 1: it's all human judgment at the end of the day

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Speaker 1: because they get to look at the photos and the matches,

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Speaker 1: at the system shows up and get to choose. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I think there's a question of whether, hey,

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Speaker 1: is this system being used for for too much? Is

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Speaker 1: there is their mission creep here where we're now just

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Speaker 1: sort of throwing photos into the certain because it's easy.

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Speaker 1: Are well cover tech for the Washington Post? True? Really

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Speaker 1: interesting stuff. Again, we'll have a link to your piece.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much for the conversation. Thank you. There's no

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Speaker 1: stopping any of this, all our information unless we fight

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Speaker 1: for ZENA or faces. Everything is going to be everywhere,

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Speaker 1: all the time. The government will track everything we do

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Speaker 1: all the time. That is absolutely gonna happen in my lifetime? Chilling?

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Speaker 1: What's coming up in your news? Marshall Philips, President Trump's

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Speaker 1: former lawyer Michael Cohen one last verbal blast before checking

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Speaker 1: into jail, got a startling admission from Boeing about its

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Speaker 1: Max Jets, And yet another organ gets drowned. Another Oregon oregan,

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Speaker 1: What is what the fascination with drones? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you can work a drone into

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Speaker 1: what it makes the new wake me when the novelty

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Speaker 1: is worn off