WEBVTT - 9 Execution Dates, 3 Last Meals, And Now… A Third Trial

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<v Speaker 1>Heys. It is Wednesday, June twenty fourth, and he spent

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<v Speaker 1>thirty years on death row. Kim Kardashian paid to get

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<v Speaker 1>him out of prison, and now the state of Oklahoma

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<v Speaker 1>is trying to put him right back in. And with that,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. In what

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<v Speaker 1>has been a thirty year saga, an ordeal and robes.

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<v Speaker 1>They keep writing new chapters on this story for this

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<v Speaker 1>death row former death row in.

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<v Speaker 2>Me, that's right, and yes, saga is a really good

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<v Speaker 2>way to put it. We're talking about sixty three year

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<v Speaker 2>old Richard Glossip. And yes, he spent nearly three decades

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<v Speaker 2>on death row. And it wasn't until last year twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five February, the Supreme Court of the United States

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<v Speaker 2>overturned his conviction. This is significant. And then yes, just

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<v Speaker 2>last month, he is released on bond. He walks out

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<v Speaker 2>of prison for the first time in nearly thirty years,

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<v Speaker 2>thanks to the Supreme Court. And yes, thanks to Kim

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<v Speaker 2>Kardashian who paid.

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<v Speaker 1>She footed the bill for him to get five hundred

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<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars. She footed that bill. She is not the

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<v Speaker 1>only celebrity who has been a part of this. I

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<v Speaker 1>think Richard Branson is the other big name that I've seen.

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<v Speaker 1>But a lot of groups or this isn't just an

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<v Speaker 1>anti death penalty case. This is okay. So a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people think this is a guy who is innocent,

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<v Speaker 1>who Robes was on death row for thirty years. But

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<v Speaker 1>when you think about how close he got to dying

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<v Speaker 1>several times in that thirty years, that's the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>stuff that'll give you chills about the death penalty in

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<v Speaker 1>this country.

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<v Speaker 2>Babe. He had nine execution dates. Think about that. The

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<v Speaker 2>governor of Oklahoma throughout the years, it wasn't always the

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<v Speaker 2>same governor actually scheduled his execution nine different times, and

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<v Speaker 2>three of those times he nearly died. One of them

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<v Speaker 2>he was moments away. We'll get into that in just

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<v Speaker 2>a moment. But he has been through. If he is innocent,

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<v Speaker 2>can you imagine what this man has gone through over

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<v Speaker 2>the past three decades.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And the so we talk about there Robes how

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<v Speaker 1>close he's gotten to death. He got close and he

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't saved because there was an issue necessarily with his

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<v Speaker 1>case where people talked about his innocence. No, these were

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<v Speaker 1>technicalities and having to do with drugs and whatnot. But

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<v Speaker 1>we will get more into that and how close he came,

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<v Speaker 1>including several last meals that he ate for Robes. He

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<v Speaker 1>was in court, and the reason we're talking about this

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<v Speaker 1>now is because he was just in court waiting for

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<v Speaker 1>his fate to find out robes whether or not they're

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<v Speaker 1>trying to put his butt right back on death row.

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<v Speaker 1>The answer there is no, however, correct.

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<v Speaker 2>So he was trying through his attorneys to have this

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<v Speaker 2>judge go back to the beginning of his case and

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<v Speaker 2>actually have a preliminary hearing where they even they had

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<v Speaker 2>to actually go over whether or not there was enough

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<v Speaker 2>evidence to proceed with a trial. That's what his attorneys wanted.

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<v Speaker 2>The State of Oklahoma said, nah, the Supreme Court, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>may have vacated his conviction, but they actually said he

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<v Speaker 2>needs a new trial. And so the judge agreed with

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<v Speaker 2>the State of Oklahoma and set a trial date now,

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<v Speaker 2>and this will be his gloss of third trial. He

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<v Speaker 2>actually gave him the date of September twenty eighth, So

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<v Speaker 2>just in a few months he will go back to

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<v Speaker 2>court to face murder charges once again. But there is

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<v Speaker 2>a difference. This time. The state of Oklahoma will not

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<v Speaker 2>be seeking the death penalty. They will be seeking life

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<v Speaker 2>in prison.

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<v Speaker 1>But again, this is a guy who didn't kill anybody,

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<v Speaker 1>but he is the one who is who was credited

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<v Speaker 1>and convicted for putting the whole motion murder for higher

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<v Speaker 1>in motion, and he got the death penalty. This case

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<v Speaker 1>is a mess. It's a legal mess in a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of ways that have to do with prosecutorial misconducts conduct

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<v Speaker 1>EVI being withheld roles. You don't have to be a lawyer.

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<v Speaker 1>You can watch just a half a season of Law

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<v Speaker 1>and Order and you know one of the biggest no

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<v Speaker 1>nos is withholding evidence from the defense.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, he should get a new trial, correct and

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of go through how he's now on his

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<v Speaker 2>third trial in two thousand and one. His first trial

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<v Speaker 2>was overturned because the conviction was overturned because they ruled

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<v Speaker 2>the glossip didn't have adequate counsel. So he was retried

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<v Speaker 2>in two thousand and four where he was once again

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<v Speaker 2>sentenced to death. And then yes, now in twenty twenty five,

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<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court overturned that two thousand and four conviction,

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<v Speaker 2>saying that there were trial errors and that this state

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<v Speaker 2>used testimony that it knew was false and that is

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<v Speaker 2>the reason why he is now getting his third trial.

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<v Speaker 1>And again Roll there was a was a napew violation

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<v Speaker 1>that they call it. This is essentially, if a prosecutor

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<v Speaker 1>is up there and you hear your your witness give

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<v Speaker 1>a false statement, you are under obligation to correct it.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't. They called this a knapw violation. It is

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<v Speaker 1>a clear and plain as day, you know your witness

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<v Speaker 1>is lying, you're supposed to correct it. They did not.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and it's significant because the witness was truly the

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<v Speaker 2>only evidence that the state has against Glossops. So this

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<v Speaker 2>all goes back to a nineteen ninety seven killing in

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<v Speaker 2>Oklahoma city of Best budget In owner Barry Van Trees.

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<v Speaker 2>Now Barry Van Trees was Glossop's boss, and so prosecutors

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<v Speaker 2>say that glossip had a murder for higher scheme where

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<v Speaker 2>he asked someone else, a worker there his name is

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<v Speaker 2>Justin Snead, to kill Van Trees so that he could

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<v Speaker 2>take over the motel. That is the prosecution's theory and

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<v Speaker 2>that is what two different juries actually convicted him for.

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<v Speaker 2>That he was the mastermind. So Justin Snead, the man

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<v Speaker 2>who actually admitted to beating this motel manager with a

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<v Speaker 2>baseball bat. He is the one. He got a deal

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<v Speaker 2>with prosecutors to get life in prison, took the death

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<v Speaker 2>penalty off the table if he pleaded guilty and then

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<v Speaker 2>testified against.

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<v Speaker 1>Glossip, which he did. He took that deal, and he

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<v Speaker 1>is the only direct evidence of the direct link. Now

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<v Speaker 1>they have other type of evidence, circumstantial stuff, but the

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<v Speaker 1>only direct evidence that they do have happens to be

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<v Speaker 1>this guy. So it's not a stretch Robes to call

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<v Speaker 1>this guy the star witness. He gave false testimony. That testimony,

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<v Speaker 1>though Robes, wasn't directly related to the crime itself and

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<v Speaker 1>what happened. This is fascinating. The Supreme Court made this

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<v Speaker 1>ruling that he is due process was violated for glossips

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<v Speaker 1>because this guy gave up, got up there, and the

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<v Speaker 1>testimony in question had to do with his medical background.

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<v Speaker 1>It had to do with whether or not he was

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<v Speaker 1>bipolar and was on lithium rose. I didn't think much

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<v Speaker 1>of that, but the Supreme Court ruled if the jury

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<v Speaker 1>had known about this background, known that he had a

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<v Speaker 1>violent background, known that he was on lithium, known that

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<v Speaker 1>he was severely had the severe mental illness, it might

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<v Speaker 1>have changed how they viewed him as a witness.

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<v Speaker 2>Rose, that makes sense to me absolutely. And look, Judge

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<v Speaker 2>Sonya Sotomayor, she was She wrote for the Supreme Court

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<v Speaker 2>in their decision, and I thought it was interesting how

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<v Speaker 2>she put it. She said, had the prosecutors corrected Sneed's

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<v Speaker 2>false testimony, his credibility absolutely would have suffered. And this

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<v Speaker 2>is what she wrote. That correction would have revealed to

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<v Speaker 2>the jury not just that Sneid was untrustworthy, but also

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<v Speaker 2>that Snead was willing to lie to them under Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>That makes sense. You know who dissented, Clarence Thomas. Clarence

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<v Speaker 1>Thomas dissented in this and his argument was it didn't

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<v Speaker 1>It wasn't material to the case itself. He said, even

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<v Speaker 1>if they had known all this stuff, it wouldn't have

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily changed the outcome of change how they viewed this guy. Okay, fine,

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<v Speaker 1>but Robes, the guy got up there. It didn't sound like,

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<v Speaker 1>why is it that he was bipolar have anything to

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<v Speaker 1>do with him, whether or not he's recounting the story

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<v Speaker 1>accurately about the murder. Well, Robes, if you're willing to

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<v Speaker 1>lie to me on oath about the most basically to.

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<v Speaker 2>Make yourself look better.

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<v Speaker 1>And they said they were billing him as a choir boy.

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<v Speaker 1>Almost the prosecution was saying, oh, he was just a

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<v Speaker 1>sweet kid, didn't have violent tendencies, and he would never

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<v Speaker 1>have done this had it not been for mister Glossop.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow. It's also of note. I think just given all

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<v Speaker 2>of that, that the whole reason why Glossop's case ended

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<v Speaker 2>up the Supreme Court was because of the Oklahoma Attorney General.

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<v Speaker 2>He said in twenty twenty three that he was going

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<v Speaker 2>through boxes if new evidence and it basically persuaded him

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<v Speaker 2>the Gossip was not given a fair trial. Now, he

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't necessarily believe Gossip is innocent, He's not saying that,

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<v Speaker 2>but he did believe that he deserved a new trial.

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<v Speaker 2>So for the Oklahoma Attorney General to make that statement,

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<v Speaker 2>that is significant. And so he asked Scotis to stop

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<v Speaker 2>glossips execution.

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<v Speaker 1>They stopped the execution. And we do a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>these cases and executions in the country. You gotta have

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<v Speaker 1>a fair trial, I mean, this is no matter what.

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<v Speaker 1>You got to have a fair trial. So he's still

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<v Speaker 1>in he's out of prison, stick.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct, He's living with his wife, He's got a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of stipulations, He has an electronic monitor, he has a curfew,

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<v Speaker 2>we can't go out at night, a lot of monitoring

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<v Speaker 2>going on. But yes, he is free until trial, which

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<v Speaker 2>is huge.

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<v Speaker 1>But yesterday was huge in that it was possible this

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<v Speaker 1>could have been over.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the judge goes in, no, not enough evidence here,

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<v Speaker 1>have the prelarminary hearing. He said, naw, we're just going

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<v Speaker 1>to go forward. So that's significant. But Rome September, this

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be huge. Now this has been thirty years.

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<v Speaker 1>Will we finally get an answer and he will finally

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<v Speaker 1>learn his fate ultimately.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, because Justin's need is going to go back up

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<v Speaker 2>on that witness stand and testify once again. This is

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<v Speaker 2>certainly going to be significant, and so yes, he will

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<v Speaker 2>have a third time in court fighting for his life.

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<v Speaker 2>But when we come back, we're going to tell you

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<v Speaker 2>about the three times Gossip was nearly executed, including the

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<v Speaker 2>time that it led to a seven year moratorium on

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<v Speaker 2>executions in this state of Oklahoma. Welcome back everyone to

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<v Speaker 2>this episode of Amy and TJ. We are talking about

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<v Speaker 2>a former Oklahoma death row inmate. His name is Richard Glossip.

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<v Speaker 2>He is now heading to a third trial the death

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<v Speaker 2>penalty has been taken off the table, but he still

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<v Speaker 2>will be fighting for his life. He has maintained his

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<v Speaker 2>innocence from the very beginning in the baseball bat beating

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<v Speaker 2>death of his motel boss. He wasn't the one. He'd

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<v Speaker 2>never been accused of actually physically committing the killing, but

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<v Speaker 2>he is and had been convicted of being the mastermind

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<v Speaker 2>of inciting another employee to do it at his bidding,

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<v Speaker 2>but he has maintained that never was the case. And

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<v Speaker 2>while he may be now out on bond thanks to

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<v Speaker 2>Kim Kardashian, he spent nearly thirty years on death row,

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<v Speaker 2>and he had nine different execution dates. He had three

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<v Speaker 2>separate last meals.

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<v Speaker 1>Just imagine that you're eating that food thing and you're

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<v Speaker 1>not You're going to die. I mean this, that's intense.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know we talk about cruel and unusual. That is, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you shouldn't put a I don't care what you got

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<v Speaker 1>to be better than that. That's that is inhumane.

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<v Speaker 2>That is awful, not once, not twice awful, but three times.

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<v Speaker 2>And this one gives me chills to imagine this. The

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<v Speaker 2>third time he came so close to dying, he was

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<v Speaker 2>actually being held in this cell next to the death chamber.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's how close this was. In twenty fifteen. He's

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<v Speaker 2>literally moments away from being strapped to the gurney for

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<v Speaker 2>lethal injection. He's sitting there waiting, But meantime, behind the

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<v Speaker 2>other wall, prison officials are literally scrambling because they found

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<v Speaker 2>out that one of the drugs in this lethal cocktail

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<v Speaker 2>that they put together in the state of Oklahoma didn't

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<v Speaker 2>match the protocols that were in place for the states,

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<v Speaker 2>so they were trying to figure out how they could

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<v Speaker 2>remedy it. There was basically a mix up in the

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<v Speaker 2>drugs in the cocktail.

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<v Speaker 1>He was saved by incompetence.

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<v Speaker 2>He was actually saved by incompetence. But that drug mix

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<v Speaker 2>up that caused so much confusion and, as you pointed out,

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<v Speaker 2>pain and suffering that led to a seven year moratorium

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<v Speaker 2>on executions in Oklahoma. You hear about this happening in

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<v Speaker 2>many different states. They had so many different botch lethal

0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 2>injection situations that a lot of states, a lot of

0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.440
<v Speaker 2>governors said Hey, we're going to put a stop to this,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're going to try to figure out a better

0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.560
<v Speaker 2>way to execute people, a more humane way, a way

0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.040
<v Speaker 2>where we're not going to constantly run into problems. So, yeah,

0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:32.319
<v Speaker 2>for seven years, they did not execute anyone in Oklahoma

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:37.400
<v Speaker 2>because of his nearly botched execution in twenty fifteen, ropes.

0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.760
<v Speaker 1>His life is being saved. He got a seven year, right,

0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.480
<v Speaker 1>he got a seven year many years for him extra

0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:47.079
<v Speaker 1>seven years. This is one of those stories rogues. If

0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.320
<v Speaker 1>this guy ends up off death row, if he goes

0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.079
<v Speaker 1>to this trial and he is found not guilty, man,

0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.000
<v Speaker 1>I might be on board with anybody who wants to

0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:58.440
<v Speaker 1>say we should get rid of the death penalty in

0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:01.400
<v Speaker 1>this country. The rope that close to killing out. We've

0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.080
<v Speaker 1>covered other stories of guys whose executions have been stopped

0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.840
<v Speaker 1>and gotten close and they end up being in We

0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:12.079
<v Speaker 1>can't accidentally kill an innocent guy like that guy, however

0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.720
<v Speaker 1>we need to do that. We can not do that.

0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And you know, just to see him yesterday, I

0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.520
<v Speaker 2>saw the pictures. There were no cameras in the courtroom,

0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 2>but of course this is a massively high profile case

0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 2>in the state of Oklahoma, so lots of reporters there

0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.400
<v Speaker 2>on the scene. But just to see him in plain

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.040
<v Speaker 2>clothes with his wife holding her hand, walking out of

0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:35.640
<v Speaker 2>court back to their home. It's just a remarkable scene

0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 2>to witness. And I am I wonder. Yes, the Attorney

0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.520
<v Speaker 2>General stepped in, Yes, Kim Kardashian stepped up, Richard Branson

0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:44.160
<v Speaker 2>stepped up. There are a lot of groups that have

0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.280
<v Speaker 2>stepped up on his behalf because they do believe in

0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.560
<v Speaker 2>his innocence. But if it weren't for all of those

0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:56.320
<v Speaker 2>people and some just happenstance situations where they weren't able

0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.200
<v Speaker 2>to carry out the execution that was set to happen,

0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:03.960
<v Speaker 2>it's a miracle. This man is alive and free technically

0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:05.400
<v Speaker 2>right now today.

0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.400
<v Speaker 1>And you know it should be okay, this we've got

0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:12.320
<v Speaker 1>and this should be noted that, yes, the guy who testified,

0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.400
<v Speaker 1>that's the only direct evidence. Sure, and that's a questionable witness. Sure,

0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 1>there were other circumstantial things that went on. It wasn't

0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.200
<v Speaker 1>just that guy, Don't get me wrong. That's the strongest evidence.

0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.640
<v Speaker 1>But glossip. They have evident he lied to police initially

0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.440
<v Speaker 1>in the conversations about what he knew about the murder.

0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.440
<v Speaker 1>He lied when he didn't tell the until later that

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.200
<v Speaker 1>Snead had confessed to him. Even he helped Sneak clean

0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:39.280
<v Speaker 1>up after the murder as well, so stuff pieced together.

0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.240
<v Speaker 1>He wasn't necessary. It just didn't come out of nowhere,

0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.080
<v Speaker 1>and we're just depending on one bipolar guy.

0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.920
<v Speaker 2>That's true. He wasn't just some random innocent bystander. He's certainly,

0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.200
<v Speaker 2>and he was initially charged with accessory after the fact,

0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.840
<v Speaker 2>and that that seems that that was absolutely inappropriate charge

0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.400
<v Speaker 2>given what we know about the situation. But it is

0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.600
<v Speaker 2>very likely that he might have just been afraid of

0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:00.960
<v Speaker 2>getting swept up into it or part of it, or

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.320
<v Speaker 2>who knows, or he could have actually been the mastermind.

0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:08.320
<v Speaker 2>We don't know. Two juries thought he was the masterman,

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.520
<v Speaker 2>mined and convicted him, but it was almost solely based

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.000
<v Speaker 2>on the testimony of Snead.

0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm fascinated to see because in the evidence they found

0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:20.880
<v Speaker 1>these new boxes, there were some notes that said it

0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:24.040
<v Speaker 1>Sneed might have wanted to recant his testimony at some point. Propes,

0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.800
<v Speaker 1>this is crazy. You got eight nine boxes that you

0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:28.920
<v Speaker 1>failed to hand over decades ago.

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.240
<v Speaker 2>And I do appreciate that the Attorney General had a

0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.240
<v Speaker 2>moral compass look and they're supposed to, but forgive me

0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 2>if sometimes we get a little jaded in how we

0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:41.480
<v Speaker 2>view some folks who are supposed to be there to

0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:43.800
<v Speaker 2>uphold the law. But it is nice to hear and

0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.160
<v Speaker 2>see a moment where an Attorney General who knew that

0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.560
<v Speaker 2>this would not look good, so to speak for the

0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Oklahoma justice system to admit that this took place. But

0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.720
<v Speaker 2>that actually is what makes the Oklahoma justice system look

0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.400
<v Speaker 2>good now that he was willing to be transparent about

0:16:57.400 --> 0:16:59.680
<v Speaker 2>it and actually get us to this day where now

0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.120
<v Speaker 2>we can maybe perhaps figure out where the truth lies.

0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 1>I think they all still look bad. This is crazy. Well,

0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.280
<v Speaker 1>if you're withholding evidence, you got a witness, you know

0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.840
<v Speaker 1>in Lyne, you don't correct. That's now that is criminal.

0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 2>That is criminal. That is and we'll see what happens

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.400
<v Speaker 2>with this, but we will certainly be following this story

0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.800
<v Speaker 2>of Richard Glossip in the meantime, though, we always appreciate

0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.040
<v Speaker 2>you listening to us. I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ. Holmes.

0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:24.840
<v Speaker 2>We'll talk to you soon.