1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: one thirty two. Tampa police on the hunt for a 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: killer after the shooting debts of three people in ten days. 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: We will hunt this son of a down until we 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: find the three victims gunned down less than half a 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: mile apart. Tampa's mayor doing what he can to reassure 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: the public so that they've added a thousand streetlights to 8 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: the Seminal Heights neighborhood and that they won't stop until 9 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: that killer is caught. Nobody comes into our house and 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: does this not now, not ever. Authorities pouring over, bringing 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: surveillance video for clues, looking at this person of interest 12 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: walking alone, wearing a hood on the night of the 13 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: first killing. I need that Seminole Heights community to stand 14 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 1: up and I need them to point out who that 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: man is. An entire city on high alert, on edge 16 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: after three killings prove in my mind anyway, there is 17 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: a serial killer stalking the city of Tampa, thousands of 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: people at risk. I Meanancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 19 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 1: What do we know? Steve Heilling with People Magazine joining us. Steve, 20 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: what do we know now other than there are three victims, 21 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: two men and a woman, all shot down within a 22 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: thousand feet of each other, seemingly connected to the bus route. Yes, 23 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. That's the only connection that we can 24 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: figure out between the three of them. They didn't know 25 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: each other, they didn't leave the same lifestyles at all, 26 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: but they all had something to do with the bus. 27 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,279 Speaker 1: They were near a bus stops, So that's what police 28 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: are focusing on right now to see if that might 29 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: be the connection. Joining you right now on the same 30 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: from w f L A t V Tampa is Meredith Sinsulo. Meredith, 31 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 1: I understand that one of the guys actually that wasn't 32 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: even his correct stop. He was an autistic male in 33 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: his twenties, and he got off the bus and was 34 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: actually walking to another route or somewhere to get on 35 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: the right bus. He was gunned down. One of the 36 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: women a young lady in her early thirties. Her fall 37 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: mother is heart broken and angry because he said that 38 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: was the light of his life, and the mom in 39 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: that scenario is death and her daughter was her interpreter, 40 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: as she was just the light of their lives that 41 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: he says he wants to look the killer in the 42 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: eye and ask why did you take my daughter? Meredeth Ceceula? 43 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: What about this? Uh? Aren't there videos on the bus 44 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: because I'm just wondering does he get on the bus 45 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: and follow the person off? And police are you saying 46 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: they don't know if it's a man or a woman. 47 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: It's a man, Meredith, Well, I don't know that. The 48 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: surveillance video that we just have one video and it 49 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: was the night of the first murder, so just about 50 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: fifteen days ago. It's one video. It's really hard to tell. Now. 51 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: Some people have said it's a man. Some people have 52 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: said it's a woman. Uh. The Tampa Police Department is 53 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: saying they're looking for this guy to question him. Um, 54 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: we don't know at this point if this person is 55 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: related to these crimes, but we do have this person 56 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: of interest on video walking in the area. Appears to 57 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: be looking down. To me, it looks like the person 58 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: is is maybe looking at a phone. Some people have 59 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: said that it's the person. Maybe it's totally a fun 60 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: because you can kind of see it light up when 61 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: he touches. Well, that's true. He appears to be looking down. 62 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: Some people have said he appears to be wearing gloves, 63 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: so it may be difficult to tell a race. I mean, 64 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: at this point, this person is a phantom. Um. The 65 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: third murder happened when Tampa police were patrols were literally 66 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: a block or two away. They heard the shots fired 67 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: and immediately ran to the direction of the shots. When 68 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: they arrived, the third person, that young autistic man, was 69 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: lying dead on the streets and there was no one 70 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: around this person. Uh, you know, I tend to think 71 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: it's a serial killer as well. Tampa police are not 72 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: calling it that, but if this person just seems to 73 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: vanish into thin air with no clues, no leaves, and 74 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: it's it's a total mystery to all of us here 75 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: in Tampa. And I really don't get the impression that 76 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: uh Tampa police from keeping anything from us. This is 77 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: very serious, and I know they're trying to get as 78 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: much information out as possible. Um, there's just so little 79 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: to go on that it's a really scary situation. Let's 80 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: take a listen to what Tampa police have to say. 81 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: Listen carefully. The shooting occurred last night at about eight o'clock. 82 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: Our officers were in the neighborhood or gunfire as they 83 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: came us through the neighborhood. Unfortunately, one of our officers 84 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: was able to find it, but it was too late. 85 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: It was already dead. One of these officers content, this is, 86 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: you know, very frustrating. I go from the frustration to 87 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: anger on these unsolved homicides and now we have someone 88 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: who was terrorizing the neighborhood. Um, it's it's just difficult 89 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 1: to see. Just happened. This morning, on my way to work, 90 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: I stopped by the crime scene ten thousand blocks of 91 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: New Orleans where Monta Haffa was murdered last night. I 92 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: was at Benjamin Mitchell's crime scene and visited there. Last 93 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 1: night's murder was about two to three hundred yards south 94 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: of where Benjamin Mitchell was murdered, and it was nearly 95 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: in front of Benjamin Mitchell's house. So this morning, as 96 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: I visited Monica haff was crime scene. I then went 97 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: over to last night where Anthony de bo was and 98 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: I ran into his parents. I met his parents theres. 99 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: Anthony last night was at work. He took the wrong 100 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: bus to this neighborhood. He should not have been in 101 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: this neighborhood. Appears that he was walking northbound from what 102 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: we think going to another bus stop and he did 103 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: not make it. While we were out there last night, 104 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: his father called a Dampa police department. I was worried 105 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: that his son was missing. After a further investigation, we 106 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: had to regretfully inform him that his son had been murdered. 107 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: Anthony is the oldest of five children. He graduated from 108 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: Middletown High School last year. He was in the prime 109 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: of his life and has been taken instantly. We're not 110 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: gonna be held hostage by whoever is doing this. We 111 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: needed everyone to come out of their homes at night, 112 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: turn on their porchlights, and just not tolerate this type 113 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: of terrorism in the neighborhood. We have to get people outside. 114 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: This neighborhood is cooperating with us, and we have a 115 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: heavy presidence in there. We still have no leads, we 116 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: have no motive. You know, Uh, Cheryl McCullum, director of 117 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: the Cold Case Institute and crime scene expert. That reminds 118 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: me of the case, and I believe you remember it 119 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: that I tried as my first bank robbery. Normally the 120 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: Feds take those, but they didn't want this one because 121 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: it was so weak. The guy broke in to a bank, 122 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: I didn't break in. He walked him with a gun. 123 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: Don't touch the al ram, this is a roby. He 124 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: was also dyslexic. Don't touch the alarm. This is a robbery. 125 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: I'm translating. But what he did was all that aside, 126 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, a fake beard, fake mustache, fake wig, hat, sunglasses. 127 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: He had on a suit and when he left, he 128 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: ripped off the suit, was based it up the bat. 129 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: He had on athletic shorts, socks, a short sleeve shirt, 130 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: ripped off the wig, all that, got on a bike 131 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: and pedaled away as the police were approaching, and he 132 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: just peddled off with all the money stuff down his shirt. 133 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: This guy, Cheryl is either riding the bus, he frequents 134 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: that neighborhood, or he lives in that neighborhood or the 135 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: perimeter of that neighborhood. It is a man, Cheryl. Everything 136 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: we know about method and assessment of homicide tells me 137 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: a serial killer is a man. Plus he's using a gun. 138 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: Women very rarely use a gun. Now, you had the 139 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: monster played by Shirley's there on and she used a 140 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: gun sometimes, but typically, you know, women don't use guns 141 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: when they're a serial killer. If they're a serial killer, 142 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: which is rare. It is a man. My only question 143 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: is the race another thing, Cheryl. Typically a serial killer 144 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: kills within his own race. I mean, look at Gaycy, 145 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: look at Bundy, look at all serial killers. They typically 146 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: kill with B T K same thing. Uh. And this 147 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: are just off the top of my head. I mean, 148 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: if you really look at them, you'll see that's true. 149 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: But here we've got a mixture of races of the victims. 150 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: We've got African, American and white. So you know, what 151 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: do you think, Cherylan, We also have male and female. 152 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: So what you're looking at here is more of a 153 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: son of Sam type of thing, more of a d 154 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: C sniper. They are not picking the victim based on 155 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 1: any characteristic, They are picking opportunity. So it's almost got 156 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: a feel of a free killer as well. So again 157 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: it is going to be imperative that people stay vigilant 158 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: because this person is high. Oh Man, talk about hold 159 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: on talking about the d C killer. I was working 160 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: in DC at the time, and when I would get 161 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: off a plane and try to get to where I 162 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: was going, Steve Hailing People magazine, You remember that, well, Steve, 163 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: You've covered so many serial killer cases let's talk about 164 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: what you think about this one. Come on, you've been 165 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 1: investigating it. I have, And you know what I think 166 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: about this one is that, um, eventually, there's going to 167 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: have to be some sort of mistake made. And unfortunately, 168 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: I think that this isn't going to stop. These things 169 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: just don't stop. I mean, there might be a break 170 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: for a while. But you know, there's a reason why 171 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 1: Tampa police are. They're installing more street lights, they're stepping 172 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: up the patrols because they think this is going to 173 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: happen again. And I'm unfortunately inclined to believe them unless 174 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: this person is caught. But what we have to go 175 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: on right now? We have nothing, and so that's why 176 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: I feel like this may be the beginning of of 177 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: something really bad. It's bad, Steve Helen. And when you 178 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: say we have nothing to go on, I hear what 179 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: you're saying, but I I agree and disagree. While we 180 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: don't have a description, I'm telling you it's a man. 181 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, but we can't round up every man 182 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: in Tampa now. And if they would do like they 183 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,199 Speaker 1: did in the Missy Beaver case, just for an example, 184 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: or they did in the Delphi Girls on a bridge case. Sadly, 185 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: both of them are not solved. But you can take 186 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: the video and you can compare it to you take 187 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: the picture of the guy in the video, and you 188 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: compare it to what he's standing next to, and you 189 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: can get his height and looking at him, you can 190 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: extrapolate his weight. You can figure out what kind of 191 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: shoes he's wearing, what kind of sweatshirt he's wearing. He's 192 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: got a hood over his face, you can figure out 193 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: what kind of clothes he's wearing. I mean, I mean, 194 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying, anty. But the other thing 195 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: is this is just a person of interest. We don't 196 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: even know that this is the shooter. So you know, okay, 197 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: Steve Helling, it's just somebody else alone, guy walking along 198 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: right after a gunshot and there's a dead body near him. Okay, 199 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: what's the likelihood of that? Zero? I think walks sometimes. 200 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: I haven't shot anybody. When did you take a walk 201 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: by a dead body? Well? No, not hearing, I have not. No. 202 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you for breaking down. It's hard to 203 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: break Steve Heling down. Now, Okay, you said it's gonna 204 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: be something bad, Steve, it is something bad that is 205 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: something bad. Of course, this is horrible, horrible, This is horrific. 206 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is and unless there's something to 207 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: go on that we can figure out who this is 208 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: and take him off the streets. I don't think it's 209 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: going to stop. I agree. I agree with that. Meredison's 210 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: Hilo w f L A TV Tampa joining us there. 211 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: Do you agree or disagree with Steve Helling from People Magazine? Well, 212 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: I think that that this person on the videotape is 213 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: definitely substanct um, you know, needs to be looked at. 214 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: This This neighborhood maybe five minutes from downtown Tampa. It's 215 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: a residential neighborhood. Sort of the main rag there has 216 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: a lot of indie crafty beer type places, but beyond 217 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: that it's purely residential. It's a mix of races, um 218 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: of income levels, and it's just not a place aside 219 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: from maybe being at the bus stop that people are 220 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: going to be out and about walking late at night. 221 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: All of these crimes have happened at night. Um, you know, 222 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: some later than others. That the gentleman that was killed 223 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: the other night, that happened, you know, pretty early in 224 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 1: the evening eight or nine o'clock. Um, But other than 225 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,839 Speaker 1: those folks that are maybe coming and going from the 226 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: bus stop, there's just not a lot of activity on 227 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: the road. Wait a minute, Wait a minute. Was it 228 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: on a weekday or a week or a weekend? They 229 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 1: have occurred on week nights. Um. I believe the Steve 230 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 1: Helling hold on just a moment. This is what I 231 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: used to love to do with Bethany Marshall. I'm gonna 232 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: come to you very quickly, Bethanie Marshall's psychoanalysts joining us, 233 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: very well known in her field. Out of l a 234 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: Steve Helling in court. My favorite, well, one of my 235 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: favorite things to do when I was putting a killer 236 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: behind bus. Are so many favorites, but one was to 237 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: look up similar transactions and work them like a dog. 238 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: And to do that you'd have to get similarities. Let's 239 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: look at what we know. All of these are on 240 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: a week night. That means this guy is probably busy 241 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: during the day. They're all in the same area. He 242 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: either lives there or he frequents that area. They're all 243 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: related to a bus stop. Is he riding the buses 244 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: that his mode of transportation? Is he hanging out around 245 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: a bus stop. What is around the bus stop? What 246 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: is around other bus stops in the area. Is he 247 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: frequenting a restaurant? Does he work in one of those restaurants? 248 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: We know that, I know that he's a male and 249 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: he is wearing a hood over his face. Who would 250 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: do that? What else do we know? These three people 251 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: are not connected, but they all rode the bus. Are 252 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 1: you getting a picture of this guy who works at night? 253 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: What can you tell me about ballistic Steve helling from people? 254 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: That's a good question, And maybe that's a good question 255 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: for Meredith because I don't have the ballistics in front 256 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: of me right well, I haven't heard it either. That's 257 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: why I was asking you, guys, Meredith, do you know 258 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: Meredith Cecelia, do we know ballistics? You know? It's interesting, 259 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: um they have not come out and declared this a 260 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: serial killer, which indicates they did not linked the weapon. Now. 261 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: I did speak with the former chief of police, Jane Caster. 262 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: She's still very involved in the community here. I talked 263 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: to her the other day before they actually declared the 264 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: third killing was part of this series, and she actually 265 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: lives in that neighborhood herself, and she mentioned to me 266 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: that it was likely that they were going to be 267 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: doing ballistic fingerprinting to link these three um crime scenes together. Um. 268 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: Now we know they have been linked, but outside of that, 269 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: they haven't come out and said, you know, other than 270 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: these were all shootings. Um that the reason why they're 271 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: linked is because of the weapon. Man, We've got to 272 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: get We got to get that weapons information. We have 273 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: to It's very simple matter. I've actually been air and 274 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: worked on it myself. All you do is get the 275 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: known bullet. I eat the bullet from the body, or 276 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: the bullet you find on the scene. You put it 277 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: under a microscope. On every bullet. It's like a fingerprint. 278 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: Every gun is created in a let's just say a factory, 279 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: and it's made of molten steel or metal, and when 280 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: it cools at least certain striations or marks on the inside. 281 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: It's not it's not um polished and smoothed on the inside. 282 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: So when a bullet hurls down the inside of a barrel, 283 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: it hits those little markings, those little irregularities on the 284 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: inside of the barrel, and it forever imprints the bullet 285 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: with a striation or a marking that only that gun 286 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: can leave. So we will know if these are the 287 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: same caliber weapons, if it's from the same exact gun, 288 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: won't we share on the absolutely that there's no question 289 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: about it. I think they're withholding that information to have 290 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: something in case they investigate and you know, get somebody 291 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: the ROO. But I want to make a prediction, Nacy 292 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: this again, this so very much like some for Zodiac, 293 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: and in all three of those cases, the killer contacted 294 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: law enforcement through the media. I think that will happen here. 295 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: Now let's go after hearing all of these facts to 296 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: our psychoanalysts, a true expert in her field, Dr Bethany Marshall. Okay, Bethany, 297 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: you've heard the facts. Well. One of the things we 298 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: know about serial killers is that searching for victims is 299 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: as important as killing. In other words, serial killers have 300 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: a very rich fantasy life. They often have literature on 301 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: their computers or in their homes about killing, about um 302 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: uh satal, massochistic types of um situations. So so whoever 303 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: is doing this is spending a great deal of time 304 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood, walking through the neighborhood, writing the bos, 305 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: whatever it takes to look for victims. We also know 306 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: about these serial killers that they're often family man, Nancy, 307 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: remember the b T K Killer. There's so many that 308 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: you've covered over the years. Surprisingly, we're family men. And 309 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: even in the literature on suceerial killers, you know, one 310 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: of the things we read again and again, white male, 311 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: married children drives the family sedan. So I think in 312 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: these cases it's often important for police to put something 313 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: out via the media for family members to look for 314 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: strange or unusual activity amongst their own family members. In 315 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,959 Speaker 1: other words, whoever is doing this is really doing it 316 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: in the early evening hours during the week. Is this 317 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: somebody whose wife works in the early evening hours. Is 318 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: this somebody who is having strange coming and goings out 319 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: of a household? Um often, you know, after these crimes 320 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: are solved, you learned that the perpetrator had a great 321 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: deal of unusual activity with within the household, but other 322 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: family members were overlooking it. Also joining in right now. 323 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: Death Investigator Joseph Scott Morgan. He is a crime scene 324 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: investigator extraordinaire and Professor Forensics at Jacksonville State University. Joe Scott, 325 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: you've heard us sift through the facts analysis. I'm not 326 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: so inclined to throw around the term serial killer. Here. Uh, 327 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: going back to what's so, Yes, it's just a coin 328 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: kie dank right that three people are gunned down within 329 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: a thousand feet of each other. I'm a little disappointed, 330 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: Jo Scott. I usually agree with you, but your dead. 331 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: What Cheryl had said earlier was that was that, uh, 332 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: you know we had this could very well be a 333 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: spree event, all right, what we need to look at that. 334 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: Let me give you a date, Let me give you 335 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: a day. No no no, no, no, no no, no no no. 336 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: Tell us tell everybody listening what you made by a 337 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: spree event versus a serial killer spree event. Spree event 338 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: means that you kill multiple people in a very short 339 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: period of time. We don't have enough evidence at this 340 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: point in time to say that this is a serialized event. 341 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: We have two individuals that were killed on the ninth, 342 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: then there was another individual killed on the nineteenth, singular. 343 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,719 Speaker 1: Now nothing else has happened at this time. I think 344 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: it's too early to call it a serial event. What 345 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: I can't say is that serial perpetrators many times work 346 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: on cycles. I've worked I don't know in my in 347 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: my career, probably five separate sets of serial homicide deaths, 348 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: like a series of these things both in New Orleans 349 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: and Atlanta. Okay, hold on, hold on, let me break 350 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: it down to regular people. Talkay, just got Morgan, you've 351 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: been living in that ivory tower there in the classroom 352 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: in Alabama that you're absolutely right? Yeah, yeah, okay, teaching 353 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: here we get. The definition of a spree killer is 354 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: somebody or it can be more than one person, but 355 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: typically somebody who commenced two or more murders without a 356 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: cooling off period. That means you you go postal and 357 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: you go in there and you shoot a whole bunch 358 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: of people at once. A serial killer has a cooling 359 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: off period. There is a period of time. It can 360 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: be a day, it can be a week, it can 361 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: be a month, it can be months. I think could 362 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: be t K. He committed by torture kill. He was 363 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: actually a dog catcher. That's the clue right there. Who 364 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: wants to catch dogs and euthanize them? Okay, think about it. 365 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: So this guy kills over a period of years. Like 366 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: Ted Bundy spree killer, it's like a shopping spree that's 367 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: done in out bam Over. Serial killer is more methodical 368 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: in that there's a cooling off period between each murder. 369 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: But in this case, you know you had to and 370 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: then you had another. To me, that constitute serial But 371 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: to me, that's all semantics. You're splitting hairs. Okay, let's 372 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: get down and dirty. Go Joe Scott. Well, what I'm 373 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: saying is that they need to be very purposeful in 374 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: what they're doing, and I think that Tampa is doing 375 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: exactly that. They're not releasing a lot of information. The 376 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: connectivity that we look for in forensic cases, Nancy, as 377 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: you well know, is what can tie these things together. 378 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 1: We're talking about ballistics. It will be very interesting to 379 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: see if all three of these cases are tied ballistically, 380 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: behavior patterns, this sort of thing. One other thing. The 381 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: first of these killings took place on the ninth, the 382 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: next one took place in the nineteen I'd be very 383 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: curious as to what happens on the twenty ninth of October. 384 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: Moving forward, many many times these people work on site 385 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: Taber nine October October nine that the second victim was. 386 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: She was killed on the eleventh um. They found her 387 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: body in a deserted um parking area field area on 388 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: the third team. So we know killings on that Yes, Okay, 389 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: you're right, So it's ninth eleven the body found one 390 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: and then the nineteenth is that right? Okay, just got 391 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: more against you on that, buddy. But what I'm saying 392 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: is we have to be very very careful moving forward. 393 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: Is this guy going to patterns just like the doctor 394 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: mentioned a moment ago. Is there some kind of stock 395 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: hold on, hold on? That's what significant Cheryl McCollum about 396 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: what Joe Scott's saying, And he's right, uh in that 397 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: if it's just I accused, I accused him of splitting hairs, 398 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: parsing words. It's all semantics like is it spray? Is 399 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: it cereal? It's like it doesn't matter people are dying. 400 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 1: But to me, it is important because if it is 401 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,959 Speaker 1: serial if it's serialized, there will be more victims. If 402 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: it's spray, this may be the end of it. Well, Nathan, 403 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: let me jump in. You said you want to get 404 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: down in dirty. Let's do it. Keeps spending no time 405 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: with these victims. Nothing is sexual. So a lot of 406 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: times when you have a serial killer, whether it's Bundy, 407 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: b T K Gamer, sex is primary. That's what's part 408 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: of the murder. We don't have that here. This guy 409 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: is finding somebody again. I'm gonna go back to Sun 410 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: of Sam. He's finding somebody's hut him and he's done. 411 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: So not only are they going to connect that bullet, 412 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: they're also going to connect where were they shocked. It's 413 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: gonna be paramount right now. The tip line eight eight 414 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: seven three tips T I P S. There's a twenty 415 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: five thousand dollar reward for this moment. We can pray 416 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: for Benjamin Mitchell's family, Monica Hoffa's family, and anthony Neboa's family, 417 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: the first three victims of the Tampa Cereal killer. You 418 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: know what a learning the public informing you about crimes 419 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: and the search for justice is so important, and that 420 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,719 Speaker 1: would not happen without our partners, and we thank them 421 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: deeply for making our serious x M one two program possible. 422 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: Right now, I want to thank our partner, and it 423 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: is Legal Zoom. Guys, as business owners all across our country, 424 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: from mom and pops to giants, you know how important 425 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: it is to keep moving forward. But so many times 426 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: things pop up that take your time and focus away 427 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: from growing your business, developing it. 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Legal Zoom thank you for what you 451 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: do for business owners every single day, and thank you 452 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: for being our partner on Sirius x M one thirty two. 453 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: I want to back it up just a moment on 454 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: this Tampa serial killer. We have more information, but first 455 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: I want you to hear the father of Monica haff Of. 456 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: This really really broke my heart. I'm angrier than I've 457 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: ever been in my life. I need that Seminole Heights 458 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: community to stand up and I need them to point 459 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: out you know who that man is. She was a 460 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: good person because my daughter made a difference in this world. 461 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: I just hated to someone took that from the world 462 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: and me. She was a god send to her mother. 463 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: You know, she would her mother being deaf, she would 464 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: she would interpret for her mom. Nothing's gonna help me 465 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: get through this. I just want to go look in 466 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: his eyes. Most of all, we need to identify him 467 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: and get him off the street so that nobody else 468 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: has to have their daughter killed needlessly by some random 469 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: guy on the street. You know. Cheryl McCollum, crime scene expert, 470 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Institute and um former, you 471 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: know when I say former, you're really still doing it 472 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: as crime scene expert. Cheryl. I'm very surprised they have 473 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: not released the caliber of weapon, and you know it's 474 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: going to be the same. So what do you make 475 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: of that, Cheryl, because that's a big piece of this puzzle. Sure, 476 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: again with some of these cases, nay, if you can, 477 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: you know, have a if you've got a three seven, 478 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: whatever the weapon is, the caliber of weapon is going 479 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: to be paramian out here. There's no questions she selected 480 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: that weapon for a reason. But again, what's going to 481 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: be real critical for me is were these victims shot 482 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: in the chest? Where they shot in the face, where 483 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: they shot in the back. That's also going to give 484 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: you a lot of insight to this killer. They're playing 485 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 1: that really close right now. They're not going to give 486 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: those cards away yet, They're just not so Meredith, is 487 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: Hulo w f L A TV Tampa. We should at 488 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: least know where they were shot in the face, in 489 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: the chest, in the back. I understood it was the back. 490 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: Is that not right, Meredith? Aside from saying that the 491 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: victims have been shot, we know the kinds of day 492 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: that they were shot in the locations, but honestly, it 493 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: details about how and when they were shot that's just 494 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: so hard to come by. PPD is keeping a lot 495 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: of this very close to the vest um. There's just 496 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: not a lot of information out there um other than again, 497 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 1: these folks, we know that they were alone. They were 498 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: in an area near the bus shop bus stop which 499 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: by the way, bus service has been suspended to that area. 500 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: This is how how scare this community is. But you know, 501 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 1: in terms of we you know they were shot from 502 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: a distance, but that's about it. A shot from a distance. 503 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst joining us from l A. That's significant, Bethanie, 504 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: what does it tell you about the criminal? Well, I 505 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: think it's significant because these serial killings are so highly ritualized. 506 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: You know, when you when you have multiple victims, you 507 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: see the same offending pattern with with each act of 508 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: the perpetrator. And so the fact that they're all shot 509 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: it's early in the evening means that for this perpetrator, 510 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: the element of surprise is extremely important to him, the 511 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: idea that he's he's hiding, that the victims don't know 512 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: that he's around. And Cheryl McCollum said that these crimes 513 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: were not sexually motivated, and perhaps that true. That's true, 514 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: but you know he doesn't have there. It doesn't have 515 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: to be semen on the victim or a direct sexual 516 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: assault or a crime to be sexually motivated. I remember 517 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: with the BTK killer um reading quite a bit of 518 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: literature about the crime, and the seaman wasn't always on 519 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: the body. Sometimes it was outside the house, sometimes it 520 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: was in a different rooms. So for this perpetrator it 521 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: might be associated with a masturbatory ritual. And then the 522 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: idea of the cooling off period. I think it's important 523 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: for the public to know that cooling off is a misnomer. 524 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that that person is losing interest in killing. 525 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: It just means that the ritualized aspect of searching for victims, 526 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: thinking about it, reading stories about killing, looking at literature 527 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: about killing, means engaging in a rich fantasy life about 528 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: killing that that is more containing to them for a 529 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: period of time than actually acting on it. So you 530 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: have sort of a going back and forth the cycle 531 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: between thinking, fantasizing and then doing. And that's why I 532 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: was saying earlier that it's so important to let the 533 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: public know that if if anybody has a family member 534 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: that's engaging in very strange activity, it had a huge 535 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: online habit, a lot of pornography, a lot of violent 536 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: material on the computers. To really begin to think about, 537 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: you know, could it be that quiet person hiding in 538 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: the midst of the neighborhood. Everybody has to be on 539 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,239 Speaker 1: high alert. Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics professor. What about the 540 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: a t F. How can they help us? Is there 541 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: any type of a database for guns or ammunition where 542 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: the bullet itself can be traced. I know, when a 543 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: bullet goes to a human body, it becomes deformed and 544 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: it can be ruined, but you can still very often 545 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: get UH striation mark off of it to make a comparison. 546 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: Is there any data bank, so to speak, you know, 547 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: like a FS or codis for fingerprints and DNA for 548 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: for guns. Yeah, Nancy, there is. A t F has 549 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: got one of the most extensive ballistic databases that exist, UH, 550 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: and they've been working on this for years and years. 551 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: Many times people think that it's the FBI. A t 552 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: F is really the tip of the sphere when it 553 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: comes to farms examination. UH. And not only let's let's 554 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,239 Speaker 1: not forget, not only can they match these things up 555 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: ballistically where you were mentioned, uh, the striations on the bullets. Uh, 556 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: they also have the ability to match these things chemically, 557 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: because every projectile has a specific chemical signature that goes 558 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: back to the latter to the manufacturer where it was composed, 559 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: and so the type of ammunition that's being used, the 560 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: type of weapon that's being fired. In my experience, most 561 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: serialized events, the individual stays with the weapon that they 562 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: feel most comfortable with, whether it's a knife or a 563 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: firearm or their bare hands. They don't deviate from that 564 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: a lot. And that's gonna be really important moving forward 565 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: relative to the connectivity between all of this. What's the modality? 566 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: How are these things connected? And I found it very 567 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: interesting where you mentioned that it was at a distance, 568 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: at a distance from an evidentiary standpoint, what that means 569 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: is that we're not going to have um evidence that's 570 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: related to say, like gunpowder on the boy, UH, that 571 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: can give you a specific range of fire. Most of 572 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: the time, they're going to refer to this as an 573 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: indeterminate distance. But again, a lot of that remains to 574 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: be seen. For me, personally, I'm going to be very 575 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: interested to see what the autopsy has revealed as far 576 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: as angle of fire deflection, Uh, the relationship between the 577 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: shooter and the victim. This is gonna be very very 578 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: you know, another significant fact to Sheryl McCollum. I want 579 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: you to think about this. Percolate for a minute, Cheryl. 580 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: If they were shot at a distance, does that mean 581 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: a rifle along gun was used? Or are they that 582 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: good of a shot that they can shoot say a 583 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: thirty eight or twenty two at a distance and hit 584 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: their mark. Think about a Sheryl, what do you think? Well, 585 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: it also could mean he's new to it and he 586 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: doesn't have the guts to walk the white up two 587 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: of them yet and have any kind of interaction. It 588 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: could also mean that he's still a little fearful, or 589 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: if he's even seven feet away, he's already away from 590 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: the victim. He can leave faster. But I want to 591 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: revisit the sexual thing really quickly, name because this is 592 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: really important. Most people know whether they want to have 593 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: figs with Morgan Freeman or Britney Fears. If this was sexual, 594 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: the victims would be his type. So clearly, again, when 595 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: you have black males and white females that ain't the type, 596 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: so you're looking more. I have a feeling of a 597 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: free killer. This is somebody that will kill again, but 598 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: he will also be very patient. So the police are 599 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: making it harder for him right now. But that's his area, 600 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: that's his neighborhood, that's where he's comfortable. Well, he could 601 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: just skip to the next bus stop, you know, half 602 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: a mile down the street or a mile away, that 603 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: still is his neighborhood. What about it, Bethany Marshall, Well, 604 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: I think Cheryl brings up an interesting point that no 605 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: two victims are alike, so it does make you think 606 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: about the sexual component. But remember the bt K killer 607 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: assaulted entire families sexually adults, men, women, children, so sometimes 608 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: it's a heterogeneous group. I think it's fascinating that he's 609 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: staying near the same bus stock. In my fantasy about this, 610 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: I could be wrong, is if this guy is very 611 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: entrenched in this one area, he's very comfortable there, and 612 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: I agree with Cheryl that maybe he's frightened. You know 613 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: that he can only use a gun at a distance, 614 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: because at this point he's working up his courage to 615 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: get closer to the victims, so that you know, even 616 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,280 Speaker 1: though in these serialized events usually there's the same ritual 617 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: again and again, maybe this ritual will be elaborated upon 618 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: and he'll get closer to his victims in the future. Hey, Nancy, 619 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 1: one thing I'm thinking about here is we keep talking 620 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: about the sexual component and this sort of thing. Let's 621 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: think about the DC sniper real quick. Uh, this guy 622 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: crossed the ratio? Are these guys crossed racial boundaries relative 623 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: to this? And the motivation was not sexual in that case. 624 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 1: The motivation in that in those particular cases had something 625 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: to do with anger rage and it wasn't directed uh 626 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: in a sexual context. And this guy was killing multiple people, 627 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: but they were shooting them in open locations where they 628 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: could seek cover. Uh, they were disguise. Remember the white 629 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: panel then that that had everybody in a frenzy in 630 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: a Greater DC area and it turned out to be 631 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: a Chevy Caprice. They they completely put the police off scent. 632 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: A lot of it had to do with the way 633 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: the case was initially worked. That's why they need to 634 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: be very very careful moving forward with this, and every 635 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: bit of information needs to be sifted and sifted through 636 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: very carefully. I get an indication in the this particular 637 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: case that Tampa has learned some lessons from mistakes that 638 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: have been made in the past, and I applaud them 639 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: for playing this close to the best. I think they 640 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: should continue to play the thing close to the best. 641 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: I agree completely flying and I brought up earlier. I 642 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: brought up DC Ciber earlier because it has the same 643 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: feel to me. And again, the rage and the revenge 644 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: is clearer than any other component in this thing. And 645 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: that's again why I think if they play it perfectly, 646 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: she'll reach out. I think he's a black male. I 647 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: think he's young, and so I think they need to 648 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: start watching social media because if he contact them, it 649 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: won't be through a letter. He didn't know anything about 650 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: writing a letter. He will take it or eat it. 651 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: There will be indications on social media. Okay, yes, just 652 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: yesterday I was talking on Daily Mail TV about who 653 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: this guy is and I said it is a male. 654 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: Got a little argument with Jesse the host, and um 655 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: then I went on to say that most serial killers 656 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: are white males. So I got into the white male aspect. 657 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: But in this case, it could very easily be an 658 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: African American male. It is a man though, you know, 659 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: I'm just telling you that. Joe Scott morgana keeps trying 660 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 1: to tell me, or is that Steve Helling trying to 661 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: tell me it might be a woman. It's not a woman. Okay, Cheryl, 662 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: please explain why it's not a woman. Don't don't get 663 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: your feelers hurt. Steve Helling, People Magazine. Cheryl, tell him 664 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: why it's not a woman. Well, first of all, is 665 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: a handgun and we are so rarely going to see 666 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: a woman used a handgun, especially walking down the street 667 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: and just arbitrarily picking victims of opportunity or random That 668 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 1: just doesn't happen with women. But here's again, you're missing 669 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:04,280 Speaker 1: the other big component. Jeffrey Dahmer assault sitting murdered people 670 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: of different races, but not different genders. D C. Sniper 671 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: I said on your show years ago, Nancy, that would 672 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: be a person of color. I was the only person 673 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: that said that, And I was also the only person 674 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: who said he wasn't a serial killer. VC Sniper was 675 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: a spree killer. There's a different field here. So if 676 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,880 Speaker 1: you pay attention and just reduced it to its most 677 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: elementary state, you have men. You have women. You have white, 678 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: you have black, you have random, you have opportunity, you 679 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: have I'm just gonna walk away, so again, son of 680 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: Sam Zodiac, this is what they did. It's more spree, 681 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: you know. Dr Bethany Marshall psycho alis joining me out 682 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: of l A. I'll tell you why it's not a woman, 683 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: because we're too darn busy. We're too darn busy getting 684 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: up at five o'clock and making the children breakfast and 685 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: getting them dressed for school and getting them there, and 686 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: then working full time and then coming home and trying 687 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: to put a nice dinner on the table and have 688 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: that hallmark moment which ps never happens. Okay, So I 689 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: don't have time unless I'm going to run them down 690 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: on my with my minivan. I don't have time to 691 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: kill anybody. Okay. Now I have thought of that occasionally, 692 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: but I have an acting on it, just so you 693 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: all know. That's why it's not a woman. Okay, there, 694 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: and women don't kill with guns. I mean, it's just 695 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,720 Speaker 1: so rare that they do. When women kill, it's usually 696 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: a soft kill, as you know, Nancy, it's and often 697 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: it's somebody within their own family unfortunately, like their own 698 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: children or a husband. But it's it's poisoning, it's drowning, 699 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: it's putting a pillow over a child's head. It's something 700 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: like that. It's not that violence from a distant um 701 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: shooting type situation. What about to Joseph Scott Morgan, Wait 702 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: hold on, let me throw this to Meredith because she 703 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: might know this fact. Meredith Inceulo joining me from w 704 00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: f L A TV Tampa. Is there any financial spect 705 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: to these shootings? I haven't really thought of that. You know, 706 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 1: people ever typically kill over sex or money. Excuse me, yeah, 707 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: ever money or sex. Unless it's a woman, then it's 708 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: a love type, a love killing, if you could call 709 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,439 Speaker 1: it that. That really doesn't fit together. What do you know, Meredith, Well, 710 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: I can tell you this. So we had the third victim, uh, 711 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: twenty year old autistic man. Um. That's that's not going 712 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 1: to be something where you know, this would be killing 713 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: for money. There. The second victim, thirty two year old female. 714 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: She didn't own a car. Um, she used the bus 715 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: to get some location to location. UM. So again I'm 716 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: not going to say, you know, there's a lot of 717 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: wealth to be had there. And our first victim was 718 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: a student. UM. A twenty year old student. So you know, 719 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: I know, but if you're shooting from a distance, Meredith, 720 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 1: you don't know that do they take their wallet or 721 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,919 Speaker 1: the pocketbook? Well, that's true, No, we if they if 722 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: that happened. There has been no indication that there was 723 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: you know, affect involved in any of these cases. And 724 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 1: I will see from living and knowing this community. UM 725 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,439 Speaker 1: the bus system. You know, while we do a great job, 726 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 1: it is going to be catering to more at a 727 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: lower income UM residence here in Tampa UM South Seminal Heights. Again, 728 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of gentrified at this point. It's a mix, 729 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: but for the most part, it's going to be a 730 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: lower income community. You know. On the tip line eight 731 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 1: eight seven three tips t I p as in Pennsylvania 732 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,879 Speaker 1: S twenty five thousand dollar reward. I want to thank 733 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: our partner making our serious one thirty two program possible today. Guys, 734 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: you know how much I love Fat Boy, a k A. Nitro, 735 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: my pound puppy, and not to leave out my pound kittie, 736 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: Cinnamon Girl. I'm always on the lookout for fun new 737 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: things we can do with Fat Boy and Cinnamon Girl. 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So he's got this collar, I 748 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: don't have to worry. Did he get out of the yard, 749 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: did he runaways in the middle of the road. You 750 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,439 Speaker 1: can see exactly where your dog is right on the app. 751 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: It's total peace of mind. Best part activity tracker. It 752 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: doesn't matter how old or chubby your dog is, whether 753 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,719 Speaker 1: it's a pure breed, a mixed or a like mine. 754 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: Link a k C shows the exact amount of activity 755 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: every single dog needs and it's easy to set up. 756 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,840 Speaker 1: There's a size for every dog, and this is important. 757 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: It is super comfy. Lenk a k C looks great 758 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: on fat Boy. You can see fat Boy on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, 759 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 1: at crime online dot com. We posted his picture keep 760 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,800 Speaker 1: your dog safe, happy and healthy. It got even easier 761 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: with a special offer from link a k C. Go 762 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: to link a k C dot com use code Nancy 763 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: save thirty percent off your order and free shipping code 764 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: Nancy save thirty on your order with free shipping at 765 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: link a k C dot com. Leak a k C 766 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: dot com code Nancy link a k C. I thank you, 767 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: and so does fat Boy street name NAU. Guys were 768 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,480 Speaker 1: sticking with this Tampa serial killing case because people are 769 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: at risk right now. Now. Police are telling everybody just 770 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,000 Speaker 1: be careful to go about your business. I don't necessarily 771 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 1: agree with that. To Cheryl McCollum, crime scene expert and 772 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Institute, I'm not really sure 773 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,839 Speaker 1: why they're saying, have your cookouts and go about your 774 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 1: regular business, because I sure seen when I was in 775 00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,680 Speaker 1: d C during the DC sniper I was a nervous wreck. 776 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: But kind of agree with the mayor that we're not 777 00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,320 Speaker 1: gonna let this so big, you know, change our lives. However, 778 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: that's easy for you to say. Tell Anthony Neboe and 779 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: Monica Hof and Benjamin Mitchell's parents just go about your business. 780 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: But you gotta get out. That's the way to flush 781 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: this guy out. That's the way to see it. That's 782 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: the way to get that rewards. You can't hide in 783 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: your house and catch him. So I agree, get out, 784 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: walk about. Pay attention because he's out there, Nancy. He is. 785 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,600 Speaker 1: He's in plain sight. He's going to grocery stores. He's 786 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: taken whatever bus he can near there, he's walking often time. No, 787 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: I think he's lost your mind, Cheryl mccollumn, because you 788 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: say get out of flash him out. I'm not sending 789 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: my children out of the street to flush out of killer. 790 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,279 Speaker 1: He doesn't kill anybody in a group. He doesn't. I'll 791 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: tell you what. You go down there and flash him 792 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: out on the street, Cheryl, how about that? No, don't 793 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: do that, because then I wouldn't have you here on 794 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: our programs. Okay, Bethany Marshall, I completely different. Disagree with 795 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,240 Speaker 1: telling everybody to just go ahead and get out. Go ahead. 796 00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:01,360 Speaker 1: Why why are they saying that, Bethany? I disagree because 797 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 1: whoever goes out is at risk. Why would you want 798 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: to put your life at risk to catch the serial killer? 799 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: You know. One of the things I can say, though, 800 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 1: is that we're talking about the differences between all these victims, 801 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: different rays, different gender, but there's some startling similarities too. 802 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,440 Speaker 1: They're all vulnerable, they're all young people, and one of 803 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,160 Speaker 1: the things we know about serial killers is that they 804 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 1: always pray on a very vulnerable population. Whether it's sex workers, 805 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: that's a very frequent population because of their availability, but 806 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 1: in this case, young people who ride the bus. So 807 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,400 Speaker 1: I think it's not the whole city that needs to 808 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 1: be on high alert, it's the most vulnerable population that 809 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: doesn't have their own cars, that has to rely on 810 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,279 Speaker 1: the bus system. These are the people who are at 811 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: risk joining these j Scott Morgan also just Scott, are 812 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: we're going to catch this guy by very careful examination 813 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 1: of all the evidence, pay attention to patterns. UH. Police 814 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 1: really need to continue to take their time with this 815 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 1: and the public. It is absolute must that the public 816 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 1: pay attention to to their entire environment and also those 817 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: individuals that inhabit that environment, family members, close friends, anybody 818 00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 1: that's acting oddly, or anybody that has said anything in 819 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 1: the past that would give them an indication that someone 820 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,839 Speaker 1: has anger issues that they just want to go out 821 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 1: and randomly hurt somebody. That's how we're gonna catch this guy, 822 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,240 Speaker 1: and vigilance, remaining vigilant at all times. I don't agree 823 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,759 Speaker 1: with hiding in your house, However, I also agree with 824 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 1: staying in groups out there. I think that it's very, 825 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,880 Speaker 1: very careful. When I was a kid, we endured the 826 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: Atlanta child murder cases, and I was in high school, 827 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: and every night at eleven ten fifty nine, the guy 828 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 1: would come on TV say it's eleven o'clock. Do you 829 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,480 Speaker 1: know where your children are? And I remember being terrified 830 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,960 Speaker 1: of that when I was in high school. Now, um, 831 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 1: and of course that was all happening in the inner 832 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,479 Speaker 1: city of Atlanta, but it was still a scary time. 833 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: People need to remain vigilant. Right now, police escorting children 834 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,719 Speaker 1: to school, and the Seminole Heights area warning residents not 835 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 1: to walk alone at night. A city bus changed its 836 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 1: route to detour the sides of the two incidents. But 837 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,600 Speaker 1: as of right now, police still do not have a 838 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: motive or a suspect in the killings that started October nine, 839 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 1: and are linked so far only by time and location. 840 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 1: People are afraid these shootings only three hundred yards apart. 841 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,720 Speaker 1: I don't know the answer Seminole Heights is a working 842 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 1: class neighborhood just a little north of downtown Tampa. There 843 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:37,799 Speaker 1: are all sorts of people that live in this melting pot. 844 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 1: There are rundown homes sitting next to brand new, big, 845 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 1: beautiful McMansions and Bungalow's, their new restaurants springing up there. 846 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:51,920 Speaker 1: It's a really diverse area, so you can't peg it 847 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 1: as one thing or another. But I know this one 848 00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:01,399 Speaker 1: person is reaking havoc and I want it to end. 849 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,040 Speaker 1: Help us one eight hundred eight seven three tips t 850 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:11,280 Speaker 1: I p s for twenty five thousand dollar reward. Nancy 851 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,319 Speaker 1: Grace Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,