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Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy.

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Speaker 2: This is like a truth about social media that if

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Speaker 2: I'm like going to it asking, especially for my business identity,

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Speaker 2: like asking and looking for the validation of like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I just feel like I really want to see some

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Speaker 2: likes come in or just like you know, feel validated

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Speaker 2: by that. And it's like, that is not my thing

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Speaker 2: to seek out from, especially if like there are clients

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Speaker 2: following me.

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Speaker 3: I should not be looking for that.

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Speaker 2: And so anytime I feel that come up, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: who throw my phone across the room. I do not

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Speaker 2: need to be going to this looking for that validation.

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Speaker 4: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't

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Speaker 4: a liability, it's a real gift.

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Speaker 2: If we don't know something about ourselves at this point

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Speaker 2: in our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know.

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Speaker 1: If you can die before you die, then you can

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Speaker 1: really live. There's a wisdom at death's door.

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Speaker 3: I thought I was insane, Yeah, and I didn't know

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Speaker 3: what to do because there was no Internet.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel like everything

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Speaker 4: is hard.

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Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, my name is Kat.

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Speaker 4: I'm a human first and a licensed therapist second, and

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Speaker 4: right now I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope

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Speaker 4: encourage you to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,

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Speaker 4: and the world around you.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to You Need Therapy.

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Speaker 4: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You

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Speaker 4: Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat I am your host,

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Speaker 4: and I'm here with another returning member of three Quarters Therapy, Julia. Welcome,

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Speaker 4: Thank you, good to be here, and we are going

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Speaker 4: to do another episode of the This is for the

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Speaker 4: therapist series that I have started recently, and today we

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Speaker 4: are going to focus on social media, and we're going

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Speaker 4: to stick to less about personal social media and how

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Speaker 4: to manage that because most of those rules and thoughts.

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Speaker 1: Are pretty straightforward. Don't follow your clients anyway, we won't

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Speaker 1: have to get into all that.

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Speaker 4: But we're going to talk more about how to manage

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Speaker 4: the pressures of social media being a therapist in twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty four, specifically in this new age of social media

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Speaker 4: marketing and influencing and gaining followings.

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Speaker 1: All that stuff.

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Speaker 4: So Julia has a social media presence as a therapist online,

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Speaker 4: so she is a good person to have this conversation with,

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Speaker 4: and she also was a big helper in the you

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Speaker 4: Need Therapy instagram, which if you've noticed, she's been a

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Speaker 4: little dormant because I really struggle in this department and

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Speaker 4: Julie was just so good at it.

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Speaker 1: Part of it might have been it was your part

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Speaker 1: of your job, so you had to do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so, yeah, you were paying me so.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 1: I've kind of taken a pause on that.

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Speaker 4: I think part of it is even figuring out how

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Speaker 4: I want that to continue online, and that will come

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Speaker 4: up a little bit probably in this conversation. But you

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Speaker 4: have had practice in managing the ethics and also noticing

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Speaker 4: the energy that it takes from you and what it

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Speaker 4: feels like. So we're going to start off with a

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Speaker 4: symbol question. When you think about being a therapist and

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Speaker 4: having a social media presence, what just comes up for you?

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Speaker 1: What feelings come up? Thoughts? Maybe you have loud thoughts,

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Speaker 1: maybe you just have feelings in your body. What comes up?

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Speaker 2: I think there's both stress and excitement, Okay, because I

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Speaker 2: felt like when I graduated and was joining three chords,

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Speaker 2: I knew I had a choice. No one told me

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Speaker 2: I had to get a social media You didn't say

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Speaker 2: that and marketing was my first degree, so obviously I

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Speaker 2: had somewhat of like an interest in playing with social

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Speaker 2: media having a presence on there. Knew it could be

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Speaker 2: valuable for my own business and reputation as an individual therapist.

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Speaker 3: And at the same.

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Speaker 2: Time, there's a lot of questions and self awareness and

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Speaker 2: self reflection that come up anytime you post something, or

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Speaker 2: just kind of being aware of how you're showing up

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Speaker 2: on that space, especially trying to promote your professional identity.

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Speaker 4: Also, what I wonder is was it an outlet for

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Speaker 4: some creativity too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I had taken a long break from Instagram

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Speaker 2: in general.

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Speaker 1: You didn't even have an Instagram when I met you.

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Speaker 2: No, I deleted my personal Instagram in twenty twenty because,

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Speaker 2: I mean, we just know why.

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Speaker 1: It was a lot I deleted it.

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Speaker 3: There was also a lot of photos of like.

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Speaker 2: Past relationships on there that I was like, why do

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Speaker 2: I don't need this anymore?

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Speaker 3: So I deleted it.

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Speaker 2: I was off the app for like several years, and

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Speaker 2: then created one for my dog and then created one

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Speaker 2: for therapy. But I had like a lot of like

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Speaker 2: learning to do. There was a lot of changes and

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Speaker 2: that was fun. But yeah, there's like a creative outlet

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Speaker 2: to it, which is nice, and there's so many new

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Speaker 2: ways you can create content now, But there's also such

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Speaker 2: a line where, like I felt like, at times this

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Speaker 2: is fun and enjoyable and lighthearted, and then other times

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Speaker 2: there's just a lot of like internal pressure and that

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Speaker 2: like rat race of like putting out content and am

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Speaker 2: I trying to be an influencer?

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Speaker 3: Am I trying to just say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what it's my goal?

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Speaker 3: What is my goal?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm glad you said that, Like, am I trying

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Speaker 4: to be an influencer? What is my goal here? And

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Speaker 4: I think that is a big part of this conversation.

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Speaker 4: We could be talking to two separate people. One is

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Speaker 4: the person on social media who is a therapist who

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Speaker 4: wants to be a professional and have a practice that

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Speaker 4: also wants to be an influencer, and also just the

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Speaker 4: person who wants to have a presence for their business online.

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Speaker 4: That's very confusing. I don't feel like a lot of

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Speaker 4: times we separate the two because we think and I

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Speaker 4: guess maybe I should use myself.

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Speaker 1: I think and.

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Speaker 4: I have thought to have good marketing as a business,

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Speaker 4: you're gonna want to be of influence and gain a following,

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Speaker 4: and so it seems like it's one and the same.

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Speaker 4: Where I'm learning now and I have learned it doesn't

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Speaker 4: have to be that. And I've talked on here before.

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Speaker 4: I've gone back and forth where I made my personal

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Speaker 4: instagram private and or I just like stopped using it,

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Speaker 4: or I was using it years ago to gain a

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Speaker 4: bigger following and doing the infographics and all of that stuff,

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Speaker 4: and then realizing that this is going against what I

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Speaker 4: believe my role should be. I also want to put

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Speaker 4: out there as I'm saying this, I'm not like the

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Speaker 4: god of social media, so you don't have to agree

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Speaker 4: with anything that I say. But for me, it was

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Speaker 4: if I want to be the type of professional therapist,

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Speaker 4: my personal instagram has to be separate from my professionalism.

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Speaker 4: And I'll like put reels and make funny things on

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Speaker 4: my personal Instagram. But it's not like there's no strategy

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Speaker 4: behind it. I post when I want to post. It's

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Speaker 4: very random. If I wanted to gain a following, I'm

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Speaker 4: doing a bad drop of it, and I've had I

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Speaker 4: had to accept that, and there were some like I

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Speaker 4: think there was I don't know if I would say

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Speaker 4: it was grief, but there was some feelings around like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I can't do this and feel good about it, and

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Speaker 4: if I do, I'm sacrificing something. And so I can't

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Speaker 4: really do this and feel good about it. And so

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Speaker 4: I had to just lay that down. That's not the

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Speaker 4: life for me with the type of professional I want

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Speaker 4: to be. And so the Three Quarts therapy and like

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Speaker 4: the Unique therapy is more around creating a presence for

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Speaker 4: these things versus gaining a following to have influence.

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Speaker 2: I think it's such a difference in like time and

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Speaker 2: commitment put into it too, because I think influencers work

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Speaker 2: so hard and that's like a full time job itself totally.

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Speaker 2: And there's a reason I ditched my business degree, Like

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Speaker 2: that's exhaust for you. And I felt like when I

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Speaker 2: was starting at Three Courts, obviously building a caseload, I

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Speaker 2: had a lot more time on my hands to like

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Speaker 2: just play around and make content and like start creating

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Speaker 2: that presence so that if people found me, they could

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Speaker 2: look at my page and be like, Oh, that's the

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Speaker 2: kind of therapist she is. Like she's attachment focused, she

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Speaker 2: likes talking about trauma, like got it. Maybe I would

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Speaker 2: want to work with her and That was fine because

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Speaker 2: I had a lot of time on my hands, but

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Speaker 2: the more my caseload built up, I kind of slowly

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Speaker 2: disappeared because it's more important to me to manage my

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Speaker 2: energy in the room doing the job I chosen love

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Speaker 2: versus being like, all right now I need to commit

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Speaker 2: two hours after seeing six clients in a day to

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Speaker 2: like make content because that sounded exhausting and not like

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Speaker 2: fit into my personal values and goals. But I'm glad

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Speaker 2: it's there and available for people to find. It's just

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Speaker 2: not you know, I'm not trying to influence, and it's.

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Speaker 1: Not your priority. That's not your priority exactly.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And that leaves space for you when you have

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Speaker 4: the energy to put something out there or where you

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Speaker 4: see something interesting, or like you posted yesterday when you

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Speaker 4: walked in, I had hung a new piece of art

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Speaker 4: up and you put that video up. But that was

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Speaker 4: like organic, It wasn't this planned strategy, which is difficult,

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Speaker 4: I think to have this conversation because as a therapist,

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Speaker 4: you often have to wear two hats of I'm a

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Speaker 4: business owner, I'm an entrepreneur. I have to find ways

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Speaker 4: to promote my business, and I'm a therapist and I

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Speaker 4: have to find things to do that align with my

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Speaker 4: ethics and what feels right to me and what feels

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Speaker 4: authentic to me.

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Speaker 1: I feel like business person and therapist clash totally. Those

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Speaker 1: identities are so hard.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: I mean I used to.

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Speaker 4: Fight so much with I had a business consultant, and

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Speaker 4: it would be so frustrating because he would probably have

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Speaker 4: these great ideas and I'm like, I can't do that.

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Speaker 4: I know it would make a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: I can't do that or that is not my goal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that is hard.

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Speaker 4: I think that's an ever evolving thing to continue to

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Speaker 4: reevaluate what my what my goals are, what feels right,

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Speaker 4: what I'm trying to work towards how to balance.

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Speaker 1: But I like the idea that you.

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Speaker 4: Don't have to delete your social media yeah, because it

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Speaker 4: still shows who you are, right, you just use it

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Speaker 4: in a way that feels manageable.

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Speaker 3: Totally. I know.

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Speaker 2: I had, like some people ask me how I choose

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Speaker 2: to post what I post or like when I post.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I had the worst answer.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I just kind of think of something

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Speaker 2: and then I'm like, okay, I'll post that, you know,

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Speaker 2: Like I wasn't like making like an editorial calendar like anything.

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Speaker 3: Like that, because that felt exhausting.

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Speaker 2: It was more like you said that example, like I

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Speaker 2: have stumble upon something that it feels like inspiring and oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'll post that and like checking in with myself, do

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Speaker 2: I have the mental energy? Do I have what this

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Speaker 2: is asking of me to do right now? To post

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Speaker 2: in a way that feels like authentic to me and

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Speaker 2: to like think through it clearly. Okay, yes, let me

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Speaker 2: post this again. Like it goes back to being a

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Speaker 2: whole other job to like create a calendar with a strategy,

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Speaker 2: and some people do that and I'm like amazed by it,

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Speaker 2: and I think some people do it really well. I

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Speaker 2: didn't ever want it to start feeling like more work.

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Speaker 4: There was a conversation that I was in that Ali

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Speaker 4: Fallon was a part of that I was telling you about,

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Speaker 4: and I think it speaks to what you're just saying.

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Speaker 1: She said two things that I really liked.

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Speaker 4: One she said that creativity isn't something you can plan,

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Speaker 4: and it's spontaneous and it comes in spurts, like you'll

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Speaker 4: have like a couple of weeks of all like this

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Speaker 4: creative flow or a couple of days or a couple

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Speaker 4: of hours versus consistent creativity all of the time. And

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Speaker 4: she was like, social media, the algorithm and all of

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Speaker 4: that does not account for that, like it wants you

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Speaker 4: to do it all of the time. And so there's

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Speaker 4: that pressure that then might take the fun away, or

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Speaker 4: the authenticity away, or the I'm proud of this or

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Speaker 4: this aligns with me away because it feels like it's

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Speaker 4: just a box. You have to check the other thing,

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Speaker 4: she said, because I think she's still on it. She

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Speaker 4: was taking a social media break. And Alie Fallon is

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Speaker 4: a writer. She's been on here a couple of times

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Speaker 4: since she's brilliant. I love everything she has to say

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Speaker 4: that I've heard, But she said, I refuse to live

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Speaker 4: in this world that sends the message that we cannot

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Speaker 4: maintain a business without social media and that our businesses

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Speaker 4: or our work will crumble without having a presence on

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Speaker 4: social media.

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Speaker 1: And it's a lie that a lot of.

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Speaker 4: Us feed into because of the fear that I think

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Speaker 4: has been created around how successful.

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Speaker 1: Social media can make you.

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Speaker 4: So what are your thoughts about people who are like

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Speaker 4: I don't have social media and I feel like I

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Speaker 4: have to get it and that's the only way to

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Speaker 4: grow my practice, or I have it and I don't

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Speaker 4: want it.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like I can't get rid of it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would say, protect your mental energy because that

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Speaker 2: is like the source from which we work from in

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Speaker 2: our jobs as therapists, and that's like our duty to

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Speaker 2: show up well and healthy for our clients. And if

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Speaker 2: like social media is taking and pulling away from that

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Speaker 2: mental energy, which I think it just does for all

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Speaker 2: of us, even in our personal lives, then we need

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Speaker 2: to honor that and protect that somehow. And I know

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Speaker 2: so many awesome therapists, like my husband's therapist isn't on

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Speaker 2: social media at all and she's amazing, and like there's

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Speaker 2: a number of them that are successful, never got online

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Speaker 2: and are fantastic. Like it's not like a rule, I

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Speaker 2: don't think, right, it's just a choice.

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Speaker 1: I Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I would ask, like, where have you heard that explicitly?

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Speaker 4: And what's the evidence that backs up that you cannot

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Speaker 4: have a successful practice without social media? If you can't

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Speaker 4: find anything, I would be curious, like, well, then where

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Speaker 4: is that messaging coming from? Because I would say, before

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Speaker 4: I decided this is not the life for me, I

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Speaker 4: cannot be attempting to be this social influencer mental health person.

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Speaker 4: I think a lot of it was more ego driven

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Speaker 4: and this idea of what it would be like to

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Speaker 4: have this following and how that would afford me different opportunities,

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Speaker 4: whether that's around my self worth or financial I think

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Speaker 4: if I really got down to it, the thought wasn't

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Speaker 4: I have to have this to have a business. I

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Speaker 4: might have told myself that, but if I really dug

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Speaker 4: into it, I'd bet it was something else that had

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Speaker 4: more to do with like my value on my worth.

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Speaker 4: And I think that that probably goes across your personal

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Speaker 4: social media, not just with business. That's how social media

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Speaker 4: in general attacks us and says that you'll feel better

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Speaker 4: and you'll be better and you'll have more and life

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Speaker 4: will be greater if you have this. No, if you

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Speaker 4: have this thing, when in reality, I think for me,

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Speaker 4: the way that I'm built, it would make my life

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Speaker 4: a lot harder to be present and to be in

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Speaker 4: and to enjoy.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, totally, I know.

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Speaker 2: I feel like it just goes to like how we

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Speaker 2: weren't actually really meant to exist on mine like in

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Speaker 2: that way, but we're all caught in it, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not gonna be like delesional and say it's just gonna

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Speaker 2: go away.

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Speaker 3: It's not gonna go away, but how do we use it?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I stopped looking at like how many people listen

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Speaker 4: to these episodes and stuff, because it's almost stressed me

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Speaker 4: out where I want to believe that there's like fifteen

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Speaker 4: people that really listen to this these episodes and we're

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Speaker 4: in this community and I don't know what the numbers

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Speaker 4: are anymore, but I do know it's more than fifteen.

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Speaker 4: And that is how I allow myself to continue to

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Speaker 4: do this, because if I really sit and think about

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Speaker 4: how many people sit in these conversations with us, I

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Speaker 4: don't know that I would be as honest.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes, Yeah, I would monitor myself differently.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And that leads me to this other question that

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Speaker 4: I feel like comes up a lot on these episodes

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Speaker 4: is if you are going to have a presence, Because

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Speaker 4: that's the other I want you guys to hear, like

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Speaker 4: it's okay to have a presence. We're also saying you

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Speaker 4: don't have to have one. But the other part of that,

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Speaker 4: if I am going to have a presence and I

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Speaker 4: am going to have fun with it, I am gonna

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Speaker 4: choose to post toe I don't have to have a strategy,

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Speaker 4: but when I do show up on there, how do

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Speaker 4: I maintain the ethical guidelines that I believe in as

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Speaker 4: a therapist when I am posting? Like, how do I

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Speaker 4: know what should be posted, what shouldn't be posted?

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Speaker 1: How to phrase things?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: How do you manage that?

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Speaker 3: It's hard?

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Speaker 2: That goes back to like that's the lot of the

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Speaker 2: mental energy I feel like, because the number one guideline

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Speaker 2: for me is do no harm? Yeah, right, And it's

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Speaker 2: like when you put something out online, this like takes

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Speaker 2: me back to like being like thirteen learning about the internet,

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Speaker 2: Like it's there forever, you know, And I can't control

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Speaker 2: how oh you say this all the time on this podcast,

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Speaker 2: Like I can't control how somebody reads something and takes

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Speaker 2: it in, even if I self edit it over and

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Speaker 2: over again to try and say the thing I want

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Speaker 2: to say, I can't control all it lands. So I

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Speaker 2: just know, like my intention is to do no harm.

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Speaker 2: And like I think there's been times where I have

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Speaker 2: posted something and then I was like have like the

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Speaker 2: posting hangover, you know, like and I've either gone back

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Speaker 2: and deleted it or like I don't know try to

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Speaker 2: create some reflection around it if it felt like it

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Speaker 2: stepped out a line of my values.

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Speaker 4: This might be different for you, though, because you're not

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Speaker 4: posting in a way where your goal is to become

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Speaker 4: this viral sensation or you're not right. You're now showing

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Speaker 4: up as I want to have a presence online so

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Speaker 4: somebody can see what type of.

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Speaker 1: Therapist I am.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a way for people to find you organically, yes,

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Speaker 4: but it's also a way for people to just see, like, oh,

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Speaker 4: somebody referred me to Julia.

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Speaker 1: This is her page. I feel like I would drive

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Speaker 1: with her, Yeah, which is great.

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Speaker 4: So that is going to impact probably how you are

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Speaker 4: showing up on there, and I think that is maybe

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Speaker 4: the best barometer of asking yourself, well why am I

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Speaker 4: posting this? That has been very helpful because so often

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Speaker 4: I'll get on I do this with Three Chords Therapy

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Speaker 4: on their Instagram. I don't post that much because I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I haven't.

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Speaker 1: Posted in a while. I should get on there and

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Speaker 1: post something.

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Speaker 4: And I get on there and I'll like pick out

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Speaker 4: a picture or something like that, and then I sit

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Speaker 4: there and I'm like I don't have anything to say,

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Speaker 4: Like I have nothing to say. And it's not because

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Speaker 4: I have no thoughts in my head. It's because any

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Speaker 4: thoughts that I have in my head really wouldn't make

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Speaker 4: any sense for me to post this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like I just want our face to pop up,

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Speaker 1: and but again, we're still heres. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: It's like, am I just posting this because it's been

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Speaker 4: two weeks and we're dormant and like we're still open,

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Speaker 4: we're still accepting clients, and so often that happens, and

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Speaker 4: I just don't put anything on there because I have

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Speaker 4: to do those checks and balances where I'm like, well,

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Speaker 4: if I write this, I don't know if that is

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Speaker 4: going to be a safe thing for me to put

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Speaker 4: on the Internet. And because the intention is not to

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Speaker 4: go viral, it takes away a lot of the information

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Speaker 4: I would write on there, because the things that go

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Speaker 4: viral are mostly like these novel ideas or these very

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Speaker 4: shocking facts, and I don't know that a lot of

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Speaker 4: that is always the reality, Like what we're writing isn't

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Speaker 4: always the reality. When there's a lot of like always

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Speaker 4: never surely yes, that's the stuff that gets people's attention.

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Speaker 4: So if I'm trying to get people's attention, but then

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Speaker 4: I don't feel like I want to put out misinformation

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Speaker 4: or confuse people. Then I'm just like, well, then I

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Speaker 4: guess I'll just write hey, guys, happy Friday. So that

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Speaker 4: might be well, you see a lot of there now.

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Speaker 4: But I think the other thing we were talking about too,

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Speaker 4: is because social media can be fun, sometimes we see

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Speaker 4: something more like, oh, that's funny, or this would be creative,

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Speaker 4: or this would be a fun way for me to

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Speaker 4: you know, express something or add a little art into

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Speaker 4: my life.

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Speaker 1: That's another way you can show up on there.

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Speaker 4: And the way we're doing that, I assume is more

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Speaker 4: for our enjoyment versus I hope this shows up on

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Speaker 4: everybody's feed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like this is like so honest, which

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Speaker 2: makes me at uncomfortable, But I feel like this is

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Speaker 2: like a truth about social media that if I'm like

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Speaker 2: going to it asking, especially for my business identity, like

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Speaker 2: asking and looking for the validation of like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: just feel like I really want to see some likes

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Speaker 2: come in or just like you know, feel validated by that,

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Speaker 2: and it's like that is not my thing to seek

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Speaker 2: out from, especially if like there are clients following me,

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Speaker 2: I should not be looking for that, and so anytime

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Speaker 2: I feel that come up, I'm like, who throw all

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Speaker 2: my phone across the room.

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Speaker 3: I do not need to be going to this looking

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Speaker 3: for that validation.

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Speaker 1: That's really good, you.

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Speaker 4: Know what I've done, because you know how social media works.

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Speaker 4: If you don't post a lot, your stuff isn't shown

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Speaker 4: and so people aren't gonna like it. So you're not

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Speaker 4: a lot of times like you don't get that validation

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Speaker 4: like three quarts there it gets like ten likes a post,

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Speaker 4: and so I've taken the likes off. Oh yeah, because

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Speaker 4: then it's it helps me stay in that mind of

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Speaker 4: I'm not posting this to get five hundred likes. I'm

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Speaker 4: posting this for another reason, not posting this for the validation,

436
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Speaker 4: because I actually now know that I'm not going to

437
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Speaker 4: get it right because to get that validation, I have

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Speaker 4: to be more consistent and that is not authentic to me.

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Speaker 4: But I love you saying like, if I'm going to

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Speaker 4: my professional social media page to get validation from the

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Speaker 4: people that I'm actually trying to show up and be

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Speaker 4: the helper of I have to check myself for a second,

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Speaker 4: and maybe right now is not the best time for me.

444
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:57,160
Speaker 1: To put this out.

445
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 4: Yes, I think the hard part of that is, like

446
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 4: you have to be really honest with yourself, and sometimes weren't.

447
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 4: There's moments we don't want to admit that.

448
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. I can always get the validation from my

449
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 3: mom too.

450
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 2: Anytime I play something, she shout out to mom, she

451
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 2: like does the clappy thing.

452
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 1: Or maybe you have a separate account as you and

453
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: your mom and dad that's on there too.

454
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh, I love that you said that. I think

455
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 4: that this isn't something that we could sit here and

456
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 4: say the same thing over and over. But what I'm

457
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 4: really hearing is a couple of things. One, as a therapist,

458
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 4: you don't have to be a social media therapist.

459
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: You can be.

460
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 4: It kind of feels similar to I'm gonna make a

461
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,360
Speaker 4: comparison and you can tell me if this is way off.

462
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 4: But I've watched those Hillsong documentaries, oh, you know, the

463
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 4: like megachurch documentaries, and one thing that I saw in

464
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 4: it is that the bigger the church got, the more

465
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 4: it turned into a business, and the harder it was

466
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 4: for them to maintain their actual value system. Yeah, like,

467
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 4: when it becomes that big of a business, it just

468
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 4: the questions and the things you have to do to

469
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 4: keep that going. They start to rub up against probably

470
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 4: what a lot of people that were there in the

471
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 4: beginning believe in. And I almost feel like that is

472
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 4: very similar in our space, where the bigger you want

473
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 4: this thing to be, the more you have to sacrifice

474
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 4: these more really intentional, authentic values and desires. And I'm

475
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 4: sure there is a way people can manage it, because

476
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 4: I think about people like Brene Brown. Yeah, now she's

477
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 4: not therapist, but what I probably would assume is that

478
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 4: she could be a lot bigger and make a lot

479
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 4: more money than she does. Like I remember when she

480
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 4: started her podcast and she was talking about ads and

481
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 4: she was like, I don't know what I'm going to

482
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 4: do about those yet because I'm not going to endorse

483
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 4: something that I don't believe in and that goes against

484
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 4: my values. And then I don't know exactly what happm

485
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 4: a Spotify, but she did leave and she took a break,

486
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 4: and I think that a lot of that was like, oh,

487
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 4: this doesn't feel right.

488
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 3: It was out of her value.

489
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so I think there are there's going to

490
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 4: be a sacrifice, and we have to continue to check

491
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 4: that and so that feels kind of similar of there

492
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 4: is a way to do it, but you have to

493
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 4: know that that stuff is going to come up and

494
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 4: it's going to be tough.

495
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 1: It's hard to do the right thing.

496
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 3: It's so hard to do the right thing, and.

497
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 4: I don't always do it by any means, Like when

498
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 4: you said, like sometimes I have that hangover for sure,

499
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 4: I've deleted stuff and I'm like, well, come on, Catherine,

500
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 4: that moment of weakness. I I think that nothing you

501
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 4: do here is going to be perfect. So one you

502
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 4: don't have to have social media to survive. You might

503
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 4: have to do other things that are hard, right, there's

504
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 4: other ways to build a business. I wouldn't say that

505
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 4: it's easier or harder, but they also will be hard.

506
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: It's work.

507
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 4: And then also when it comes to having social media,

508
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 4: it's a process and you are going to continue to

509
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 4: learn what feels right what doesn't feel right, and you

510
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 4: might have to do things that don't feel right to

511
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 4: learn that, and maybe you need like an accountability partner. Right,

512
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 4: Like if I saw you post something and I was like,

513
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 4: that feels dangerous what you said on I don't know

514
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 4: if I would say it like that, but like that

515
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 4: felt like a little bit extreme and doesn't feel like

516
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 4: it aligns with the rest of the stuff on there

517
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 4: that would be helpful, and vice versa.

518
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 2: I had a friend do that to me once. What

519
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 2: was it like, shout out to Alyssa. It was so helpful,

520
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: it was good. I like I missed something, Like I

521
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 2: posted something and I was like, I totally missed the

522
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 2: way that could have been interpreted. And she really gently

523
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 2: nudged me, and I was like, oh, my gosh, thank you.

524
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 4: Well, you know the other thing that I don't know

525
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 4: if you feel this on social media when you do

526
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 4: have a presence of any kind, whether it's like you

527
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 4: have five hundred followers or two hundred thousand, if people

528
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 4: have an expectation of you, there also is a pressure

529
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 4: to respond to stuff really fast. Oh yeah, especially stuff

530
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 4: that's happening in the world. And I do know that's

531
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 4: probably gonna come up with the election stuff, yep. And

532
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 4: I reserve the right to not make a comment because

533
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 4: we are not built to respond that fast as human beings.

534
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 1: As therapists, it's.

535
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 4: Not our job to tell you what our personal beliefs

536
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 4: and values are around anything unless it feels appropriate in

537
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 4: our clinical view, and so when we feel pressure to

538
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 4: make a stand around certain things, that can oftentimes turn

539
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 4: into us saying something that could cause harm because we

540
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 4: feel that pressure and we don't think about all of

541
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 4: the stuff that we have to think about totally. And

542
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 4: so I do reserve the right at this point to

543
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 4: be silent on whatever I need to be silent on.

544
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 4: There was a Instagram influencer TikTok or therapist person that

545
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 4: will remain unnamed, that a listener of this podcast actually

546
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,640
Speaker 4: sent to me and asked my opinion, and he basically

547
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 4: was saying you should be able to ask your therapist.

548
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 4: He was talking about political beliefs, and I think somebody

549
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 4: could interpret that with any type of belief system, who

550
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 4: they voted for, what they believe, and if they give

551
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 4: you some therapist y responses, I wonder why that's important

552
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 4: to you. You should tell them that because I have

553
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 4: the right to know what you believe so I can

554
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 4: feel safe in here. And if they don't tell you,

555
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 4: then you should walk out of the door and find

556
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 4: a therapist that will. And I just hated that because

557
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 4: I don't think it's always wrong for a therapist to

558
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 4: share that, and it's not always right, and it actually

559
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 4: can get in the way more than it can be helpful.

560
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 4: And so when we put pressure on people that are

561
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 4: oftentimes more helpful when there is that mystery, so you

562
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 4: can show up and say whatever you want to say

563
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 4: that I think robs us more than it gives us.

564
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 4: And it also sends this message that to feel safe,

565
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 4: I have to be around people that believe everything that

566
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 4: I believe. And I don't think that is always.

567
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 3: True, yeah, or like always realistic.

568
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

569
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 3: Otherwise re just isolate.

570
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 4: We're othering people and we make up stories about what

571
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 4: they are and who they are and what really safety

572
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 4: is is.

573
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: And we could get into that forever.

574
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 4: But that is just me saying we should be able

575
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 4: to reserve the right to remain quiet on some of

576
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 4: that stuff, and it's okay to not share those things.

577
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 4: And that's something that I would say to anybody who

578
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 4: has a presence that it's okay to say this is

579
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 4: not what I'm going to do right now with whatever

580
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,719
Speaker 4: platform I have. Oh yeah, So in closing, is there

581
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 4: anything you would offer to somebody who is struggling with

582
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 4: some of this stuff of how do I show up?

583
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 4: I want to I don't want to I've messed up,

584
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 4: like what piece of encouragement would you share with somebody?

585
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to borrow from a question my husband asks

586
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: me a lot. Who are what is telling you to

587
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 2: do that? Who or what is telling you that you

588
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: have to have a social media presence to be a

589
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: successful therapist, or that you have to post a certain

590
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: way or use it this way or that way. I

591
00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 2: think it's about aligning with your values as a therapist

592
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: and also as a human and protecting that mental energy

593
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: and deciding whether that fits with your goals, both in

594
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: terms of like your work life balance and how much

595
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: how much do you want to give to that, and

596
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 2: what is that going to take away from.

597
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 4: I'm going to add to that because I love that,

598
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 4: and I just love that your husband is not a therapist,

599
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 4: and he's so good, he's learned so well. It could

600
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 4: be really helpful to just write out what your goals are,

601
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 4: and then when you ask those questions, you can refer

602
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 4: back to those, so then we don't do that like

603
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 4: mental gymnastics, where we convince ourselves that it aligns, but

604
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 4: we're aliging to ourselves, right.

605
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: It could be really helpful to be.

606
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 4: Clear about our goals before we even start, or if

607
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 4: we're already in the middle of it, do it now. Yeah,

608
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 4: what purpose do we want this to serve? And if

609
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 4: it's not serving that or it's getting in the way,

610
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 4: then we might just.

611
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: Take a break.

612
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 3: Yes, we can take breaks.

613
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love a nice break. Okay, Well that's going

614
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 4: to do it. I hope this was helpful. If you

615
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 4: have any questions or if you are in this space

616
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 4: and you're like, oh, I have an idea or this

617
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 4: was helpful for me, I would love to hear that.

618
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 4: If you have any more thoughts on things as therapists

619
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 4: you want us to talk about on here, send them

620
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 4: to me. You guys have sent me some really good ideas.

621
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 4: That is gonna, I mean, give us conversations on this

622
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 4: series for I feel like years, and you have made

623
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 4: me think too, and some of them are hard where

624
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I need to sit on this for

625
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 4: a while before I can actually talk publicly on it

626
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 4: to my fifteen people that listen to this podcast, like

627
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 4: I like to tell myself, So send this to me,

628
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 4: Katherinet you need therapy podcast dot com. I'm not going

629
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 4: to give where you can follow us because I feel

630
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 4: like it goes again. So what we just talked about

631
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 4: so you can find that if you want to. If

632
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 4: you don't want to, you don't have to find us.

633
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 4: But I hope you guys are having the day you

634
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 4: need to have and I be back on Wednesday for

635
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 4: a new episode of Cash dot Com.

636
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 3: Bye bye,