1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly, 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success. 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: this started. Hello and welcome to another episode of the 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: Market Disruptors Podcast. Today I am sitting down with Ryan 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: Sean Adams. He's the founder of Methos Capital. He's one 10 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: of the outspoken proponents of Ethereum on Twitter. He likes 11 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: to really put ethereum content right out to the bitcoiners 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 1: and really kind of stir the pop. I get into 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: why he likes to do that, what he really thinks 14 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: about bitcoin versus ethereum, if he really think there's only 15 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: gonna be one. We talk about the differences of ethereum, 16 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: what he sees being the future, and then we get 17 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: into some defise stuff. What's happening there um with a 18 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: different protocol is some really good conversation. Um learned a 19 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: lot and let's just go ahead and just jump right 20 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: into it. Hello and welcome to another episode of the 21 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: Market Disruptors podcast. Today I am with Ryan Shawn Adams. 22 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: He's the founder of Mythos Capital, and he is one 23 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: of the outspoken proponents of ethereum on Twitter and out 24 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: in the industry, and he has a lot of good 25 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: things to say, so I want to I'm excited to 26 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 1: talk to him today. Welcome Ryan, Yeah, hey Mark, great 27 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: to be here. Thanks alright, great, So, UM, let's go 28 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: ahead and just set the stage. And so for those 29 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: that don't know who you are, why don't you just 30 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about kind of what you 31 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: were doing before and and kind of what you're doing 32 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: right now in the space. Yeah. So, UM, you know, 33 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: tech entrepreneur by background and trading within the medical um 34 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: software field for a while. UM sold the company back 35 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: in party acquisition there and UM when we started getting 36 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: into krypton, and that was really when I, you know, 37 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: did the first leg down the rabbit hole, if you 38 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: if you will, and discovered bitcoin. UM. A little bit later, 39 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: I sort of realized that, you know, there are more 40 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: applications that were possible use blockchain systems, public blockchain systems, 41 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, general programmable value transfer and kind of fell 42 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: in love with ethereum and decided to start with US 43 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: in seventeen, so with US as a as a capital 44 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: pool UM, and we also provide staking services to crypto networks. 45 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,839 Speaker 1: And I guess I'm just a general commentator and writer 46 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: around this space a little bit. UM. Recently, my passion 47 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: has been around the topic of of ethereum uh and 48 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: specifically how eth is a monetary asset that um, you know, 49 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: deserves a monetary premium and UM topics around that, you know, 50 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: short form like eat his money and UM. You know 51 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 1: I love you know, mixing it up on Twitter and 52 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: controlling bitcoiners. Yes, you do. You do seem to like 53 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: to uh stir the pot a little bit, which is good. 54 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: Kind of makes it interesting for sure. UM. So, yeah, 55 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: you recently wrote a piece titled Ethereum is Money and 56 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: why it matters and uh really going straight at the 57 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: bitcoin maximalist on that because obviously you know, the bitcoin 58 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: is money, um and and so I don't know if 59 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: that's what you meant with with with the piece titling 60 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: at that, but you really went into why ethereum is 61 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: money and UM kind of broke down the triple assets, 62 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: you know, different ways it's looked at UM s O 63 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: V versus medium exchanges, et cetera. So why don't we 64 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: just jump into that a little bit. I guess first 65 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: of all, why did you choose that title? Was that 66 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: just to kind of go after bitcoin? You know, it's 67 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: not so much going after bitcoin, right, So first of all, 68 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: I'm actually people want people that do this. I'm actually 69 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: like a bitcoin bull. Um. Yeah, you know I am. 70 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about Bitcoin originally got me into the 71 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: crypto space. UM. I do think that bitcoin falls short 72 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: in some areas and if your name kind of picks 73 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: off in some areas where Bitcoin left off. But the 74 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: reason I say like eth is money as uh, you 75 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: know the title is that it's it's it's provocative, um, 76 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: and it really it really shouldn't be. I mean, um, 77 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: people in in and before that who said things like 78 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: bitcoin is money. I mean that was provocative at the time. 79 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: The reality about money, whether it's fiat money or crypto 80 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: based money, is that, uh, money is is a meme. UM. 81 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: In some ways, it's it's kind of like a religion. Um. 82 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: There's an underlying belief system that it has value and 83 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: can store value into the future, and that begets more 84 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: belief in it and the network affects, spreads and essentially 85 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: like you can mean money into existence. So when I 86 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: say things like if money, it's just sort of to 87 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: you know, poke at that idea a little bit. Um, 88 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: anything can be a money if people believe it's the 89 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: money and use it as a money. And it certainly 90 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: fits that criteria right now. Um, And I really I 91 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: think of it as kind of a triple point asset. 92 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: We can get into that. One of the likes in 93 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: the you know, the three point stool um is being 94 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: used as a money, being used as a story value asset, 95 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: as collateral backing in the open finance world, as collateral 96 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:41,679 Speaker 1: backing for currencies like die for instance, which are also 97 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: used as a as a medium of exchange and unit 98 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: of accounts. So um eth is certainly money. We can 99 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: get into that a little bit more from that perspective. 100 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: First is the story value, but then through currencies like 101 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: die when it serves as a as a synthetic backing 102 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: as a medium of exchange, unit of account um in 103 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: the future. I think that with that, I mean it's like, um, 104 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: it certainly is being used as that today. Um. Right, 105 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: it is certainly being used as a store of value 106 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: today where we can see what's locked up, and we 107 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: can certainly see that it is being used as a 108 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: money today. Um. And I think, like you said, like 109 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: anything can be a money, but does that necessarily mean 110 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: it's a good money or the best money or best 111 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: store of value? Right? So, um, is that something where 112 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: you see it like maybe like evolving into that or 113 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: you think it already is good. I think I think 114 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: it partially is, and it's partially evolving into it in 115 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: the same way that bitcoin partially is a good story 116 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: value today and is evolving into a better story value 117 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: in the future, I mean store of value. It's really 118 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: like it's um, it's kind of like a coordination game, right, 119 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: Like you want to store your wealth in the asset 120 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: that all of the other human beings store their wealth in, 121 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: and ideally you want to be a little bit ahead 122 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: of that. Uh. That way you can kind of you know, 123 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: get the the appreciation of the asset and get the 124 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: upside of the story value asset. So the coordination game 125 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: is trying to predict which which asset will become a 126 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: story value. And bitcoin has kind of mean this idea 127 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: of um, you know, scarcity and a sound money and 128 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: hard money being the primary value proposition of a story 129 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: value UM and like, I agree with those things too. UM, 130 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: It's just that EVE also has those properties as well. 131 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: It is a sound money, it is a hard money. 132 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: It does have a scarcity enforced by social contract um. 133 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: It just doesn't have a meme around twenty one million 134 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: will only be produced. But if you actually look into 135 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: the monetary policy of Eve, you sort of like start 136 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: to uh see an asset um that has low issuance, 137 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, approaching one percent over time, that has a 138 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: sustainable security um ust year in terms of its stability 139 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: to pay for network security via new coin issuance. Uh, 140 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: and it has the same scarcity that's enforced by social 141 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: contractors bigcoins. So even from just a scarcity meme perspective, UM, like, 142 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: the fundamentals are there, it's just the like, the idea 143 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: and the meme and the propagation of that meme is 144 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: not fully there in the way that that it is 145 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: with bitcoin. But I think when people start to understand 146 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: these assets more we're just at the very early stages 147 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: of the general public barely understanding these assets, it will 148 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: become more and more obvious that the monetary policy behind 149 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: ethereum issuance is uh, just as good, maybe in some 150 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: ways better or at least makes different tradeoffs than the 151 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: bitcoin monetary policy. Yeah, the tradeoffs that you speak of, 152 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: I'm guessing more are are back to like the inflation 153 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: and then enforcing the security, which, um some of that 154 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: will will be said to be seen right in the future. 155 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: But I think the problem, I guess is you're saying, like, 156 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: the inflation rate is low today, but we just don't 157 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: know what it will be in the future. I guess 158 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 1: that's the main argument that bitcoin bowls would say, right 159 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: that you're building on something that's unknown because we know 160 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: it's going to change in the future, but we don't 161 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 1: know what it's going to change too. Yeah, and this 162 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: is this is kind of you know what I would 163 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: would what I would respond to you, I guess a 164 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: couple of things. So, so first, when you look at bitcoin, 165 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: it's somewhat in a similar boat. So what bitcoin has 166 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: done very clever cleverly is they've fixed issuance, and so 167 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: they have Bitcoin has a security, um like, it has 168 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: a happening and issuance happening. Every four years or so. 169 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: Issuance is decreased along kind of a curve approaching zero UM, 170 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: so that you know, the network specifies only twenty one 171 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: million bitcoin will ever be produced. You can also think 172 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: of that secure party having as or that that issuance 173 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 1: having is also a security having. So like UM, the 174 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: the amount of bitcoin that goes to pay for network 175 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: securities cut in half every four years. So there's some 176 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: real question as to whether that sort of an issuance 177 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: policy is UH is sustainable at some state and we're 178 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: talking in the next you know, ten years or so, 179 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: UM like bitcoin will have to sustain itself just by 180 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: transaction fees. So like the question in my mind is um, 181 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: you know, is it actually possible to have fixed issuance 182 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: twenty one million or or Bitcoin have to make a 183 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: really hard choice in the future to actually increase its 184 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: issuance and fork the network. Will that be sort of 185 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: a very divisive topic sometime in the next you know, 186 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: ten years, in the next twenty years, whereas ethereum UM 187 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: you know, responds with a more flexible issuance policy into 188 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: the future. UM and the monetary policy of Etherium is 189 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: pretty simple. It's minimum necessary issuance to secure the network. 190 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: So like like security essentially is guaranteed by that issue 191 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: at schedule, and Etherium won't won't have to deal with 192 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: the thorny issue off like, well, we have two hard 193 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: work to maintain security. So in some ways, I guess 194 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: in summary, I think that the meme around twenty one 195 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: million that that bitcoin has may not actually like in 196 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: fact come to pass. That there may be a reason 197 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: in a requirement to actually increase issuance in order to 198 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: properly secure the bitcoin network, and it might cause FOC 199 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: at some point in the future to frame that out 200 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: just a little bit more for everyone, if they're not 201 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: totally caught up, is that UM currently bitcoin is secured 202 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: by mining, and they are earning their their payment or 203 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: their rewards through mining new bitcoin, but as well as 204 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: doing transactions, and eventually UM the mining rewards run out, 205 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: and the only way to secure the network would be 206 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: through transaction fees. UM a risk would be that let's 207 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: say that everybody just hotels their bitcoin and doesn't transact it, 208 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: then there's no transaction fees, and then the transaction fees 209 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: aren't enough and the miners give up, and then there's 210 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: no security for the network. That's the potential risk that 211 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: that is going to play out, and We'll have to 212 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,719 Speaker 1: see what happens. UM. Most people think that there will 213 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: be enough transaction activity to continue to pay the miners UM, 214 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: but it may not, And so that's that's the potential risk, 215 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: right UM. I also see like a middle ground their 216 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: team mark where it's it's you know, UM, there will 217 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: be some security, and there will be like a lot 218 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: of security paid by transaction fees. But but it could 219 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: come to pass that Bitcoin is no longer the most 220 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: secure network, right UM, as you know, compared to other 221 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: networks in the future. So UM, like I probably think 222 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: it's unlikely that bitcoin security like drops to zero uh 223 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: and it becomes useless, But but it could vary. UM 224 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: feasibly come to pass that that Bitcoin is no longer 225 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 1: the most secure network, and that opens a slot for 226 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: another network that has a different issuance policy, maybe even 227 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: a different consensus system um to uh to jump to 228 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: first place, right, And so we don't know what the 229 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: future holds, and so that could end up being bad 230 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: for Bitcoin. It possibly and and with a more flexible 231 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: monetary policy like Ethereum has, it could end up being 232 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: right where it needs to be. Bitcoin could change is 233 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: monetary policy. So there's a lot to be said about 234 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: the future that we don't know. It just seems that 235 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: the if we look through history, like the best store 236 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: of value always wins. I think you're kind of saying 237 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: that before. We've seen this playout with governments in the past, 238 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: where some thought silver was going to be the best 239 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: store value but they end losing the most of their 240 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: wealth because gold became the best store value. And um, 241 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: where you start to store your value right now, seems 242 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: like having the best monetary policy today would win. But 243 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: I guess we'll have to see how that plays out. Yeah, 244 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: And I guess the point is, you know what actually 245 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: is the best monetary policy, right UM, maybe we don't 246 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: know yet. UM Gold for instance, has been a fantastic 247 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: story value throughout history, and it has an issuance and 248 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: annual inflation of like one point five to two percent ish. UM. 249 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: You know ethereum UH is projected to have a one 250 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: percent ish inflation rate as well. UH. And then of course, 251 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: you know, the issuance is always going to be enough 252 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: to secure the network. Maybe that's the winning the winning ticket. 253 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: I think the point is we're all it's so early, 254 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: like we're in the first standing of this and so 255 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: you know, at some level, betting on crypto is betting 256 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: on which of these assets become the best store of value. 257 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: And so it's really hard to kind of project into 258 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: the future. We just s don't know. So I always 259 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: encourage like a probabilistic bet on these things, uh, and 260 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: discourage maximalism of one form or another, including bitcoin maximalism. Yeah. 261 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: So today we have, you know, the dollars the reserve 262 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: currency of the world, the financial system. Really, the world 263 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: financial system is built in the US, majority of it, 264 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: and it's built on the dollar. Um. But the dollar 265 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: is also is a medium of exchange, right, but it's 266 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: also a very poor store of value, which is why 267 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: we see ascid inflation in stocks and real estate and 268 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: all these other things. UM, I mean, is it possible 269 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: do you think it's possible that maybe um the theory 270 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: M and bitcoin maybe have purposes of their own where 271 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: one could be a better store value and one could 272 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: be a better financial system or something. Yeah, totally. And 273 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: if I were to predict these things, I would probably 274 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: at this point i'd probably say that that's a that's 275 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: a very likely outcome. UM. I don't think that that, Um, 276 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: you know, bitcoin kills ethereum or ethereum kills bitcoin. I 277 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: think what what will happen is both of these networks 278 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: will coexist. UM. They will be competitive, as all assets 279 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: are or store value in monetary premium use cases. Of course, 280 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: you know, gold competes with stock, competes with real estate 281 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 1: for where individuals and large institutions decided to store their wealth. Um, 282 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: but they will have different trade offs. UM. I could 283 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: very well see a world where there's a you know, 284 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: a proof of work you know, winner from from the 285 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: story value of category. And you know, maybe that's that 286 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: looks like bitcoin uh and and possibly a proof of 287 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: stake category winner uh. And maybe that looks like ethereum uh. 288 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: And that these assets are held on the balance sheets 289 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: of funds and major institutions and even central banks at 290 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: some stage. So it's really about the growth of the 291 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 1: asset class, like the non sovereign store value asset class 292 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: here uh. And that that's what I'm sort of rejecting 293 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: when I say things like this money is that like, um, 294 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: there seems to be at least this year um this 295 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: bad that bitcoin will be the only winner in that category. 296 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: And I just don't think that's true. In the money category. Yeah, 297 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: in the money category and in the non sovereign store 298 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: value category. M hm okay, so um again, so we 299 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: know it. It is already being used as a store value. 300 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: I mean, at least I guess you could argue that. 301 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that's probably the primary use 302 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: case of most people. I mean, we're starting to see 303 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: all the financial system start to pick up bitcoin. We 304 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,239 Speaker 1: don't really see him picking up ethereum. However, we do 305 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: see what half a billion dollars locked up in DeFi 306 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: use cases, right, So I guess that's somewhat of a 307 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 1: store value. Is that kind of how you see it? Yeah? 308 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: I see it as Right now, bitcoin is leading the way, 309 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: um with what I would call crypto banks and kind 310 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: of So if you think of like you know, a 311 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,479 Speaker 1: financial system. At the at the base layer, you have 312 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: some sort of a money, right, a base monetary um 313 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: system that kind of everything settles into, and then a 314 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: layer above you have a banking system. And you know, 315 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: the money in the banking system are very tied together, 316 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: so like you know, central banks and commercial banks and 317 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 1: institutional banks very very closely tied together. It's all part 318 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: of the same system. So Bitcoin as a base money. 319 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: Their banking layer are these crypto banks. So crypto banks 320 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: being you know, the bit mixes and the binances and 321 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: the coin basis of the world. And in the crypto 322 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: banks right now, bitcoin um is the primary asset, so 323 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: you know, it has the most liquidity, the most trading 324 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: pairs UM even in uh like crypto bank, it's like 325 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: like block fi, there's more lending going on on bitcoin 326 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: um than versus other assets. So it's kind of you 327 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: know winning right now in that crypto uh you know, 328 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: centralized banking layer. Um Ethereum, on the other hand, is 329 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: really pioneering an open banking layer with these decentralized finance protocols. 330 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: So ethere in essentially represents a kind of a another 331 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: vision of the world where the story value asset is 332 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 1: is E. And on top of that asset there are 333 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: these crypto protocols like um compound and like maker and 334 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: like um d y d X and like set UH 335 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: and within these these banking protocols is really the primary 336 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: reserve asset. The interesting thing I think about it is 337 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: that it can also make use of all of the 338 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: kind of the crypto bank layer that that bitcoin makes 339 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: use of as well, So it is behind Bitcoin is 340 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: you know, the second highest liquidity trading pair uh, and 341 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: on on the encrypto banks like Block five for instance, 342 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: it's you know, the second asset to get listed. So 343 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: I think um EF has kind of two avenues uh 344 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:26,159 Speaker 1: to create liquidity and to kind of become a money in. 345 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: One is the crypto banking side, where it's kind of 346 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: second to bitcoin, uh, and the other is in this 347 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: open finance defied layer where it's kind of first place 348 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: and kind of king right now. Yeah, some of that 349 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: stuff you talk about with bitcoin UM, I mean you 350 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,479 Speaker 1: talked about kind of coin based and whatnot. I mean 351 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: those are more like on ramps and off ramps, And 352 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: I mean the theoryum is still subject to the same 353 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: requirements of on ramps and off rams. Wouldn't you say? Yeah? 354 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: I would? And I so I think of these exchanges 355 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: as certainly they're on ramps and on off ramps for 356 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: yacht UM, but they're also more than that. They're also 357 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: becoming essentially a banking layer. So as more and more wealth, 358 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: let's say, is uploaded into crypto and like zooming out, 359 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: I think that's the that's the long term trend here 360 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 1: is that we're going to move more and more of 361 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: the world's wealth into crypto. Right now, we're at you know, um, 362 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: hundreds of billions of dollars. Just a few years ago 363 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: we were at tens of billions of dollars. I think 364 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 1: in a few more years will be at trillions of dollars. Uh, 365 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: and the wealth is going to essentially be be uploaded 366 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: into crypto. But these these crypto banks that the coin 367 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: bases and the bit mixes of the world will serve 368 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: us a um like a Fiat on ramp certainly, but 369 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: they'll also provide lending services, will provide borrowing services. UH, 370 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: they'll provide um, you know, the ability to too long 371 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: and short assets. Basically everything that you'll be able to 372 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: do with with a traditional bank, you'll be able to 373 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: do with these crypto banks. Um And, like Bitcoin is 374 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: really essentially using uh, these centralized crypto banks as it's 375 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 1: as its primary banking layer. Ethereum is using those banks 376 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: as well. But it also because it has a program 377 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: uh programmability aspect, it's it's also creating new kinds of banks. 378 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: These are protocol based banks that are decentralized that are 379 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: inherently like programmable and composable and interoperable. Uh, so that 380 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: you can change these things together and you know, create 381 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: really interesting financial products and economies. Um. And I think 382 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: that is that is a massive area of innovation. Uh. 383 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: And that is like um um, more interesting in some 384 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: ways than just the bitcoin plus crypto banks vision of 385 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, I'm I definitely think that's interesting. I 386 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: want to jump into a little bit I would say though, 387 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: before we jump into the full full scale, is that 388 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: I think that part of the reason why the financial 389 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: system is taken off so much because without having a 390 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: hard sound money that stores value, we've been forced We've 391 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: been forced to become investors. It's kind of built this 392 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: whole financial system that's forcing us to be investors as 393 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: opposed to just being able to store money and be specialized. 394 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: Like if I could be a brain surgeon, the best 395 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: brain surgeon in the world, parked my money and it 396 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: just and it stores the value. Um, then that I 397 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: don't have to become this investor. But because I can't 398 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: store my value and money, it forces to be become 399 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: an investor. So maybe if we had and these these 400 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: are all big maybes, but maybe if we did have 401 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: a good store value, we wouldn't have this giant financial 402 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: world that we have today. Um. Do you think there's 403 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: any truth to that? I think there's some truth to that, right. 404 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: I mean if you look at where people store their 405 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: valt their their value, I mean they don't store it 406 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: long term in U S dollars right, um, both full 407 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: story and treasuries, the story and um it stocks and bonds, 408 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: real estate. UM. And that is because you all and 409 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: and just in some respects in assets like gold. UM. 410 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: But I don't know, I do think they put it. 411 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: They put it in their four own care, their mutual 412 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: fund or whatever, and then they go into these all 413 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: these different types of financial products and and things that 414 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: they have in the market. I don't know that that's 415 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: going to change all that much. Right. So, like the 416 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: the idea, like the somewhat of the fantasy of hyper bitcoinization, 417 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: says all of that story value rather than storing it 418 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: in those other assets. Now, because we have this new 419 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: thing called bitcoin, you could just store in bitcoin. Um. 420 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: But but that's also not diversified, right, Like what what 421 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: if something happens to the bitcoin network? Um? Like what 422 00:24:54,640 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: like I mean, what if for example, um, like uh, 423 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: government's global governments make Bitcoin illegal and they choose to 424 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: adopt you know, another crypto asset UM like bitcoin has 425 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: a ton of systemic risk as other asset classes do. 426 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: So I just don't think we'll go into kind of 427 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: a mono store value world. UM. I think like wealth 428 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: will continue to be diversified across multiple uh stories of value. Now, 429 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: I do think that assets non sovereign stores of value 430 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 1: like like eat and like bitcoin can certainly chipped into 431 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: assets like gold, but I'm kind of skeptical that they'll 432 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: ever kind of consume all of that UM story values case. Yeah, 433 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: I think, Well, I I mean I would agree with you, 434 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: and it would be irresponsible for anybody to park all 435 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: their wealth into one asset. And if we go back 436 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: all the way to you know, biblical times, I mean 437 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: people were still storing their wealth and livestock and land 438 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: and whatnot. So UM, I think, but I think there's 439 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: a difference of like real wealth, you know assets versus 440 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: just crazy risky financial assets. But um getting into the 441 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: DeFi space, which I am super interested in. UM, it's 442 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: all been growing on ethereum UM and I'm guessing that's 443 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: because of the program uh the ability to be you know, 444 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: have programmable money. Is that why it's all growing on ethereum. Yeah, that, 445 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: I mean that is the the use case you can 446 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: you can basically, I mean like a smart contract, um. 447 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: You know, in some ways it's a it's a just 448 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: a programmable espero um like agreement, right um so. But 449 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: but Bitcoin doesn't have those capabilities on the base layer. 450 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: Very basic smart contracts as sometimes are possible things like 451 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: multi SIGs on Bitcoin, you can call it that a 452 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: smart contract. But with ethereum um you can. You can 453 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: put a lot more logic into you um, into these 454 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: smart contracts and essentially like you have the ability to 455 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: program value and you know, create if then statements um 456 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: for for various protocols. Right now, the Hello World app, 457 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: like the the Starter program has definitely been clatteralized loans. 458 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: That's really taken off um. There's something like five million 459 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: in um clatterized loans on the Etherian platform right now, 460 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 1: and that's super cool. But I think that's that's really 461 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: just to start. Eventually, what's going to happen is all 462 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: of the financial verbs, all of the things you want 463 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: to do with value and with assets and with money, 464 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: things like staving, things like infesting things like you know, spending, 465 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: things like borrowing or longing and shorting. All of those 466 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: verbs will essentially be protocols on top of the Etherium platform, 467 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: and you'll be able to do those um in a uh, 468 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: in a more decent centralized, criticcol driven way rather than 469 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: going to a centralized banking service that handles it all 470 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: for you. So that's really the potential, right. So that's 471 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: those are the financial pieces. Um. So you talk about 472 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: like longing and shorting. Well, first you said that, like 473 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: the primary use case right now is is the lending 474 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 1: market barring and barring and lending. Um, But isn't the 475 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: barring and lending really being done by the investors who 476 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: are longing and shorting and and hedging. Yeah, I think 477 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: that's that's happening to a large degree now, and that's 478 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: natural for like these markets to emerge. Um. I mean, 479 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: people criticize people outside of crypto, the often criticize crypto 480 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: in general, and they just say, you know, it's it's 481 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: all speculative, right, Um, people kind of uh, you know, 482 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: it is, that's the that's the evolution, that's how we start, 483 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: right exactly. So I completely agree it is in large 484 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: part speculative, but it's becoming less so over time, you 485 00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: know asked it's like bitcoin are becoming less volatile time. 486 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: So it's natural that these crypto banks would start with 487 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: that kind of the use case. You know, even even 488 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: a lot of there's been a lot of criticism on 489 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: like I c o s for instance, and kind of 490 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: all of the scams have popped up in all of 491 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: the the poor investments UM that like essentially were available. 492 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: But when you look at the primitive of permission less 493 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: fundraising UM around something like a decentralized autonomous organization, that 494 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:35,959 Speaker 1: is an incredible primitive Like that's an amazing accomplishment UM. 495 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: And yeah, and you know in the initial round it 496 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: didn't have adequate investor protection and it's skirted regulation and 497 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: there were all sorts of problems with it. But the 498 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: primitive itself and the ability to issue a token and 499 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: fundraise on the theory and platform, UM, if it was 500 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: tweaked you know, properly and had those same protections, UM, 501 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: it could be incredibly powerful for global finance. So those 502 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: are the types of opportunities that I think are available 503 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: on ethereum and like available when you have a money 504 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: platform that also has uh like this programmable banking layer. Yeah, 505 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: so if we look at if we look at the 506 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: I guess that there's like three main purposes of a 507 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: of a bank, right, one would be storage, to settlement, 508 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: three loans. Right, so I guess all three of those 509 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: could really be taken care of. I mean with crypto 510 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: and bitcoin or theorium. I suppose, right, storage obviously goes out, 511 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: we have the ability to transact on our own that 512 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: settlement and now with the with the lending market kind 513 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: of gotten rid of that. So now it's really going 514 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: about going after the larger financial system overall. Yeah. Absolutely, 515 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: And you know in the fourth the fourth might be 516 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: investing as well, kind of banks helping you invest and 517 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: help raise funds in the form of investment banks, and 518 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: I think that that is also accomplished by etherium. You know, 519 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: there's a really really interesting protocol called the set protocol 520 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: for instance, which is essentially a protocol that kind of 521 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: does algorithmic or or robot investing for you. So you 522 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: could just put they have a moving average um set 523 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: where it's it's it's almost like a smart contract ETF 524 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: and you can put eth in it and when it 525 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: rises above a p certain percentage from a twenty day 526 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: moving average perspective, UM, it will buy more eth uh 527 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: and if it drops below, it will sell that e 528 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: in exchange for a stable coin UM. And over time 529 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: that has historically shown to outperformed just straight holding EATH. 530 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: That's all done programmatically through kind of like a smart 531 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: money robot. I mean that kind of innovation has the 532 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: potential to replace mutual funds and index funds wholesale. UM. 533 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: So like like all of these like, all of these 534 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: things will be possible. I think on top of UM, 535 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: you know this this programmable banking platform, and on top 536 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: of THEORYUM over time, and what it's going to do 537 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: is software is just going to eat finance and it's 538 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: going to eat money as it's eating other industries. Uh. 539 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: And I think you know, if we if we look 540 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: five or ten years out, UM, you know, all of 541 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: all of that will become obvious in retrospect. Yeah. What 542 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: about what I mean, I don't know if you care 543 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: to get into this, but about the regulation. So we've 544 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: seen technology eat everything, as you say, right, so you 545 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: talk about software, but really technology, right, I mean we 546 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: can see the digital cameras took out Kodak or whatever. Right, 547 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: And it's been happening since the Industrial Revolution. But I 548 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know if we've ever come up 549 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: against something that's so big, that has so many like 550 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: incumbents that are gonna that are really going to resist. 551 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: So I mean, obviously taking on money, it's just a 552 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: government's function, taking on Wall Street. Um. I mean do 553 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: you think it's it's something that could severely limit um, 554 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: this new technology's growth or do you think, um, it's 555 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: a war that they just can't win. Eventually they're just 556 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: gonna lose that war. I think it's the latter. I 557 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: think what what will happen is that at various points 558 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: in the life cycle. And when we think about life cycle, 559 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: I mean we're talking about like decades long life cycle 560 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: crypto it's gonna like the Internet, it's going to take 561 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: to kind of impact society and and eat these industries. 562 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: And at various junctions, Um, you know, central banks will 563 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: put up blockers for various reasons. Um you know commercial banks, Uh, well, 564 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: we'll put up blockers to protect their interests. As you know, 565 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: media companies have done to you know, protect against social 566 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: networks in the past, and as other incumbents to have 567 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: kind of done in the past. But the reason that 568 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: won't be successful long term is because I kind of 569 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: believe in the game theory of test and that is, 570 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: if if one of the incumbents, whether it's a nation 571 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: state or a commercial bank, kind of breaks rank and 572 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: actually starts to adopt this technology, uh, they will receive 573 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: a like a large competitive advantage and essentially be rewarded 574 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: for doing that. Um. So unless they can kind of 575 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: all collude together and and stop this and kind of 576 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: crush it, uh, it only takes one or two of 577 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: them to kind of break rank uh and receive a 578 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: competitive advantage for all of the rest to just need 579 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: to follow from a from the game theoretic perspective. That's 580 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: why I think over the long run, um, you know, 581 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: they can't stop it, right yeah, And I mean at 582 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: least at least with bitcoin. I mean I I look 583 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: at it as like the the US financial system has 584 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: already spent a lot of money, potentially billions of dollars 585 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: to adopt it for everyone from Goldman Sacks to e Trade, 586 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: the t du Merritrade, et cetera. And we know they're 587 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: like the largest lobbyists in government, So I can't imagine 588 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: they're going to let that just go to zero now. 589 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: So it's already happening. And you know, I think Wall 590 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: Street is going to discover kind of tokenization of assets 591 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,879 Speaker 1: for instance. Uh, and there's gonna be a gold rush 592 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: for that at some point. UM. So like you know, 593 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: once once Wall Street, once Wall Street, and once even 594 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 1: central banks kind of start using this this stuff. UM 595 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: like then the horses the horses out and you can't 596 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: you can't stop at that point. So, UM, where do 597 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: you see defy going in the near term, let's say 598 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: the next twelve months, and then maybe where do you 599 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,439 Speaker 1: see it like in the long term, like five years 600 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: or ten years out. You know it's super interesting, is um. 601 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: I find it easier to predict ten years out in 602 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: twelve months for some reason. Okay, you know, like I 603 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: I would agree with you on that. So like, you know, 604 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 1: ten years out, I think we'll have trillions of dollars 605 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: token on. It's on top of UM likely ethereum, but 606 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: um like it could be other smart contract platform as well. UM. 607 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: I think we'll have all of the primitives that we've 608 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: talked about, you know, UM, I think uh, user experience 609 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: and will be significantly improved so that average retail users 610 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: can quite easily manage their keys and open smart contract wallets. 611 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: I think all of that is coming, but in the 612 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: in the next twelve months, it's really difficult to predict 613 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: what will be UM the you know, the new applications 614 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,279 Speaker 1: UM For instance, I was actually surprised by the rise 615 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: of unite swap. So unite Swap for for your listeners, 616 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: is a decentralized exchange on ethereum it um. It launched 617 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: in I want to say November or December of last year, 618 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: and it's just basically a smart contract pool that will 619 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: as you to exchange various um r C twenty and 620 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: each based assets UM and you know, it's it's not 621 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: an order book type model, so it's not like a 622 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: coin base, it's not even like a m a zero 623 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 1: x decentralized exchange. Essentially, all of the liquidity is put 624 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,359 Speaker 1: in one place, and UH liquidity providers you know, earn 625 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: um based on the amount of volume that goes through 626 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: the platform, So it kind of pools this liquidity and 627 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 1: an algorithm essentially determines the price of each trade. So 628 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: I was shocked at the growth of unite slap um. 629 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: I mean it it quickly grew into the millions and 630 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: then the tens of millions in terms of how many 631 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,319 Speaker 1: assets were put in this pool. Uh. And it kind 632 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 1: of came out of nowhere. It was like basically developed 633 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: by a single person. It was his first application that 634 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: he'd ever created, like not ethereum applications like application in general. Uh. 635 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,919 Speaker 1: And the protocol mechanism just really clipped. So I would 636 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,879 Speaker 1: say that that that, I mean it fit a really 637 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: big market need. I mean then the market needs essentialized 638 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: exchange really bad. And I think it's been searching. So yeah, 639 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: he had a he had a he had a good 640 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: spot for sure. Yeah. So so I think it's um, 641 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: it's tough to predict what's going to hit like critical 642 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: markets fit um. I was just curious, like if you 643 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: think about like we taught, we both talked about like 644 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: the evolution of the space, which I mean in the beginning, 645 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: it's it's speculators. I believe we're still kind of in 646 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: that collectible speculator stage, you know. I don't think we're 647 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: at the store value stage yet. So you look around 648 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 1: it like, okay, well, what are the what are speculators 649 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: doing obviously that's why the lending and borrowing markets have 650 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: taken off. Um, So I would think it's maybe something 651 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: spinning off of that, right, like more type of investment 652 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: products or or banking products. One thing that could pop. 653 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: I mean people have talked about n f t s 654 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 1: for a while. Those are like collectibles that's kind of 655 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: in the background, something to Popper in that, But one 656 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: that seems more in your term to me is um 657 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:14,280 Speaker 1: uh basically money markets just accounts. So particularly the ability 658 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: to put a stable coin like DIE or like USDC 659 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: inside of a protocol like compound and receive you know, 660 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 1: single digit potentially double digit interest yield. Um. That's super interesting, um. 661 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: You know, and that's less of a speculative use case 662 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 1: like what kind of like you know, moving moving up 663 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: that ladder of like few and few respectulive use cases, 664 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: and it's more of kind of a saving in a 665 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:47,240 Speaker 1: money market use case. But it's it's something retail consumers 666 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: can understand. And um, I think that could be a 667 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: pretty massive Yeah, Okay, good stuff. Well, we've talked a 668 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: lot about about a lot of things. I think we 669 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: can probably start wrapping it up here. Um I think uh, 670 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: I did have some other questions, but well we'll dive 671 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: into those at another time, um, because we've kind of 672 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,320 Speaker 1: gone over the time here. But but really good stuff. 673 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,240 Speaker 1: I uh, I love your perspective on it. I'm curious 674 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: you said you started out as a bitcoin bowl. Um 675 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: do you still own both? Yeah? Absolutely, and I'm still 676 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm still a bitcoin bowl. I mean, like, so, if 677 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: I were to kind of summarize it, right, UM, I 678 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:31,360 Speaker 1: see platforms like Libra, uh, and what Libra is doing 679 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 1: is it's it's essentially creating a closed money uh in 680 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: a closed banking system. Um. And that's not very interesting 681 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: to me at all. We already have PayPal. And then 682 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,839 Speaker 1: I see projects like Bitcoin and that's creating an open money, 683 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: which is super interesting, but but it's creating an open 684 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: money uh and still a closed banking system. So it's 685 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: you know, scaling through the bit maxes and finances of 686 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: the world Ethereum. To me is like this third possibility 687 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 1: where it's creating an open money and also an open 688 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: banking system. And I think in the long run that 689 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 1: combination is going to be far more impactful uh than 690 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: like the combination of just open money. But both are needed. 691 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: So I really like Bitcoin. I think it is. UM. 692 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: It is an open money protocol for sure. UM. I 693 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: think it will be very successful. UM. But my heart 694 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 1: is really in Ethereum because it's it's both an open 695 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: money and it's an open banking platform. And like the 696 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: why for this for me is is so that individuals 697 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 1: can essentially be their own banks. We're giving we're giving 698 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,919 Speaker 1: money back to the individuals, we're separating that from the state, 699 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:55,359 Speaker 1: and we're essentially separating banks from from state control to UH. 700 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: And to me, that's the full soft, self sovereign individual 701 00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 1: picture we need if we don't have. My worry is 702 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: that Bitcoin essentially, maybe it becomes a sound money UM, 703 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: but essentially it will be UM captured in the end 704 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: by by commercial banks and eventually by central banks UH, 705 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: and we won't get everything that we signed up for 706 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,400 Speaker 1: in the scriptive revolution. Yeah, good call. All right, Well 707 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,800 Speaker 1: that's a great point. UM. I love the self sovereign 708 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 1: piece of it. And so let's end it with that, 709 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 1: because that was a good that was a good statement. 710 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: So Sean, Ryan, Sean, thanks so much for joining today. 711 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: It was it was great having you. Awesome. Thanks Mark, 712 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Hey, if you like this episode of the 713 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: Market Disruptors Podcast. Please help us take this to the 714 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: top of the podcast charts. Just please do me a 715 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: favor and rate, review and subscribe. Taking fifteen seconds to 716 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,800 Speaker 1: just leave a quick review goes a long way in 717 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: helping us reach more people and disrupt more markets. I 718 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,399 Speaker 1: really appreciate you listening and I'll see you next time 719 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,000 Speaker 1: on the Market Distructors Podcast.