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Speaker 1: From UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Ben and

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Speaker 1: I'm Noel Surprised. That's right, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, the

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Speaker 1: very same super producer, Noel Brown, who only usually shows

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Speaker 1: up at the end of the episode. Sometimes you might

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Speaker 1: interject when when you have to say that. Guys know

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Speaker 1: that was birk. I try to avoid it if I can,

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Speaker 1: I'm called forth to do so. So long time listeners

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Speaker 1: you will know that. Uh. In our last episode last week,

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Speaker 1: we mentioned that the better half of the show, in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, Matt Frederick is it's going to take a

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Speaker 1: little bit of time off to be a dad. This

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Speaker 1: is yeah, it's a it's a big it's a big deal.

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Speaker 1: And uh, whereas we know, everything is fine. We'll keep

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Speaker 1: you updated when we're hearing things. But Matt, as always

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Speaker 1: is with this in spirit and we'll see if we

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Speaker 1: can talk him into some cameos. Uh during his during

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Speaker 1: during his um vacation. I guess it's the opposite of

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Speaker 1: a vacation. It's a new career. It's a staycation, it's

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Speaker 1: a staycacaybe we can skype him manage. Yeah, maybe we

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Speaker 1: could skype him in, or maybe we can just show

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Speaker 1: up at his house. Right, nothing creepy about that, you know.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure his wife will be thrilled. Sure she will,

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Speaker 1: especially the surprise aspect. Right, we'll go late at night,

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Speaker 1: Diana all love it, and we'll just we'll scratch on

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Speaker 1: the glass Salem Lot style. Well sure, yeah, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: what you do. Because what's more scary than seeing like

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Speaker 1: a bright face in the dark. You wanna want to

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Speaker 1: keep it. You just want the eyes to see that disembodied,

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Speaker 1: floating creepy eyes. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 1: I think that's a full proof plan. In our hearts

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Speaker 1: are in the right place. No, I wanted to say

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the show and

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Speaker 1: making this whole ing a moment with null. I know

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Speaker 1: that I kind of cajoled you into it, but I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you agree. There was a little arm twisting. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't animal though. There was a little arm twisted. Uh

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Speaker 1: So today, what are we talking about? We are talking

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Speaker 1: about celebrity death conspiracies. I suppose are just celebrity deaths. Well,

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Speaker 1: we can, we can, we can say that they should

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Speaker 1: be we can we can say that there are conspiracy theories,

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Speaker 1: and we can say that they're definitely celebrity deaths. Right,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about several different things, so we're gonna give

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Speaker 1: an overview of some of this stuff. Here's the thing,

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Speaker 1: in an increasingly secular age, right when you and I

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Speaker 1: have talked about this before off air, Uh, people don't

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Speaker 1: worship gods or demi gods the way they used to.

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Speaker 1: You know, there used to be what umpteen temples to

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Speaker 1: Dionysus or or you know, all the stories of Hercules

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Speaker 1: were told across the land to Now that the world

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Speaker 1: has become a little more secular, celebrities have elevated to

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Speaker 1: this sort of mythical role. Right. Sure, So today we're

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Speaker 1: taking a closer look at this obsession with celebrities and

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Speaker 1: and first we'd like to look at a specific and

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Speaker 1: odd type of conspiracy theory. Yeah, so, the there's this

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Speaker 1: idea that a celebrity would fake his her own death

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Speaker 1: in order to escape public scrutiny. This comes up a

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Speaker 1: lot Tupac or Elvis, Jim Morrison the list goes on

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Speaker 1: and on and on um. And Second, the idea that

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Speaker 1: some celebrity deaths were the result of a conspiracy or

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Speaker 1: some sort of sinister, murky explanation that differs from official counts,

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Speaker 1: you know, like Michael Jackson or Kurt Cobain. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so they actually did die. We're just talking about how

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Speaker 1: they died, right, exactly, the official reports not necessarily being

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Speaker 1: what actually took place. And then third, we're going to

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Speaker 1: look at how someone might actually fake their own death

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Speaker 1: and whether it's possible in the modern Ay, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: that's gonna be interesting. And oh we should put a

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Speaker 1: disclaimer out right now, ladies and gentlemen, neither super producer,

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Speaker 1: Noel the Madman Brown, nor me myself where I or

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Speaker 1: even Matt as a matter of fact, no one is

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Speaker 1: condoning faking your own death. Uh. The stuff that you

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Speaker 1: would have to do is well you'll see no spoilers,

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Speaker 1: but it would probably be easier just to disappear. Oh

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Speaker 1: go ahead, I don't know, let and say that if

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Speaker 1: you were able to successfully do that, I would give

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Speaker 1: you a tip of the hat. And personally, just because

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's such an insane feat to be able

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Speaker 1: to pull off the right you should do it, but

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Speaker 1: pretty impressive thing to pull it is an impressive It

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Speaker 1: is an impressive thing. It's like, it's like stealing a

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Speaker 1: Space shuttle and making it to space is so many

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Speaker 1: different kinds of illegal, but still it's impressive. And then

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Speaker 1: like coming back from space and parking it in your

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Speaker 1: one car garage and having nobody noticed. Wow, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: guess that's a about the same level. Yeah. Um, and

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Speaker 1: put a mustache on the shuttle of course, disguise it.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the first, the first type, the

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Speaker 1: idea that someone could fake their deaths. Now, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was born in uh, Tennessee. My family's from the

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Speaker 1: hinter the ends of the Appalacha. So Elvis Presley big

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Speaker 1: deal and all the all the theories that swirl around

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Speaker 1: this guy, the lore, if you will, the lore, that's

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Speaker 1: the perfect word. So one thing that I always heard

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Speaker 1: growing up was that Elvis Presley was also a malungeon,

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Speaker 1: which people just often when someone gets famous in Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: there will be people going, yeah, you know, he's a

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Speaker 1: he's a malungeon. You know, I didn't know what malungeons

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Speaker 1: were until you told me pretty recently. Maybe catch up

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Speaker 1: some of the listeners in case they don't know either.

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Speaker 1: Oh did we talk about this? Uh? Okay, well, uh,

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Speaker 1: my family is umlungeon on my dad's side, and the

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Speaker 1: lungeons are what what we're originally called a try racial isolate.

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Speaker 1: That's the kind of thing they were. And for a

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Speaker 1: long time in uh Tennessee history or Eastern Tennessee history

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Speaker 1: to use the word that you use so well, earlier

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Speaker 1: there was this lore about malungeons and they weren't uh,

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Speaker 1: they were considered ethnically ambiguous. You can check it out

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Speaker 1: to learn more online. Uh, it's spelled in E L,

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Speaker 1: you in G e O in S. So how does

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Speaker 1: the king figure in that? So? Thank you bring it back? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the King Elvis Presley considered to be a malungeon. But

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Speaker 1: he was one of the most popular celebrities in m

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Speaker 1: at the time for sure, but possibly in American history.

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Speaker 1: And he was born um, let's see, we have his uh,

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Speaker 1: we have his earth and death date, right, Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: Elvis Presley was born on January eighth, nineteen thirty five,

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Speaker 1: and he died on August sixteenth, nineteen seventy seven. Or

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Speaker 1: did he or did he they probably did. But um

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Speaker 1: so how he died is it was a suspected drug

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Speaker 1: overdose and he was pretty was pretty common knowledge that

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Speaker 1: that Elvis was was popping some serious sedatives. His personal doctor,

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Speaker 1: doctor Nicopolis, prescribed him as much as ten thousand doses

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Speaker 1: of sedatives, emphetamines and narcotics. And I'm guessing that's in

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Speaker 1: a ye year's time. Yeah, yes, so there. It's it's

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Speaker 1: strange because you know, this was considered a national and

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Speaker 1: personal catastrophe for thousands and thousands of people. Okay, so yes,

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Speaker 1: when he when he dies, when he is declared dead

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Speaker 1: the sixteenth, nineteen seventy seven, people are people are floundering

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Speaker 1: to figure out what's happening, and they don't want their

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Speaker 1: favorite celebrity to be dead, so they come up with

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Speaker 1: these ideas about what really happened. We know that there

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Speaker 1: was already some controversy because a metal examiner named Dr

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Speaker 1: Jerry Francisco said that the cause of death was cardiac arrhythmia.

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Speaker 1: But you can only determine that condition in a living person.

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Speaker 1: So if you guess about the like, if you try

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Speaker 1: to speculate on that, it gets messy really quickly. I

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Speaker 1: mean rhythmia. Is this idea that your heart is not

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Speaker 1: beating the correct right tempo or the correct it's an

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Speaker 1: irregular heartbeat. So how can you detect an irregular heartbeat

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Speaker 1: in a non beating heart? Exactly right? Yeah, perfect. And

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and ten, however, we have a wrinkle

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Speaker 1: to the story because that doctor you mentioned earlier returns

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Speaker 1: so in his friend and former personal position, Dctor Accopolis

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Speaker 1: said he believed that chronic constipation, not cardiac arrhythmia, is

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Speaker 1: what knocked the king office throne. Uh bum bum bomb bomb.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so this this is a case where the

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Speaker 1: the examiners, the invest gators. It is not a pretty image.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, man, Yeah, I know, no one wants to

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Speaker 1: go that way because this was this was fat alvious too.

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Speaker 1: I mean he was, you know, looking a little worse

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Speaker 1: for wear in those days. He had lived a hard

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Speaker 1: life and he was is being cheated by the colonel,

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Speaker 1: you know, eating peanut butter and banana sandwiches shooting the television.

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Speaker 1: I read that he went to, uh there was this

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Speaker 1: one place who I read a lot about the sandwiches

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Speaker 1: he ate in preparation of the show. But he was

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Speaker 1: an acceptable researcher, and he went to, Uh, there was

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Speaker 1: this one sandwich he loved, which was the entire loaf

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Speaker 1: of bread hollowed out with like a jar of peanut

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Speaker 1: butter and making no, I'm not I'm going to find

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Speaker 1: the name of it. It's more like a cake. But

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Speaker 1: he wasn't eating healthy, He wasn't living in a healthy manner,

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't leaving the house particularly often. Right, Probably

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Speaker 1: wasn't um. Probably wasn't functioning very well on an emotional

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Speaker 1: or social level because with thoses of sedatives, etcetera, etcetera,

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Speaker 1: it's probably pretty difficult thing to do. So there are

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Speaker 1: a We're family shows. So I'll say, a boatload of

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Speaker 1: people who do not believe the official story. They say, no,

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Speaker 1: Elvis Presley faked his death to get away from the

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Speaker 1: financial troubles caused by his manager, the Colonel, to get

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Speaker 1: away from the constant grind of fame, to go somewhere

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Speaker 1: and maybe dry out and stop popping pills, And that

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Speaker 1: he faked his death and goes by the name John

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Speaker 1: Burrows because there was a guy named John Burrows apparently

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Speaker 1: who resembled Elvis and brought it bought a plane ticket

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Speaker 1: from Memphis to Buenos Aires, Chile. Uh, the day after

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Speaker 1: Elvis was declared dead. Dumb thumb, that's the one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is only the beginning of numerous Elvis sightings

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Speaker 1: over the years following decades. I know people noel who

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Speaker 1: claimed to have seen Elvis Presley and believe it was

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Speaker 1: Elvis Presley. Well they believe it. Well, I like, circle,

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Speaker 1: when did they? When do they see these before you

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Speaker 1: and I were born for you? So this would be

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Speaker 1: like possibly before the Elvis impersonation things, right, That's the

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Speaker 1: thing I always thought, Yeah, there was an Elvis. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's so many sightings right that there's an Elvis Sighting

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Speaker 1: Society that was established in like eighty nine. And I

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Speaker 1: love that point about the impersonators, Elvis impersonators. So that's

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Speaker 1: what I always think, don't you when you see when

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Speaker 1: you hear somebody say, oh I saw Elvis. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: were in Vegas during the Elvis Convention, of course you

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Speaker 1: saw it. And then uh, we've got a we've got

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Speaker 1: a neat um guest here, though, if Elvis were alive today,

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Speaker 1: how old would he be? So if Elvis were alive today,

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Speaker 1: he would be wait for it, eighty years old, eighty

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Speaker 1: years old, eight years old. I don't know, man, I

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Speaker 1: think uh, I think the King would come back. I

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Speaker 1: mean if you did, he certainly wouldn't be able to

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Speaker 1: do any of his signature dance man with without you know,

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Speaker 1: breaking a hip. Yeah, no, hips, we couldn't do the hips. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Probably have to be a little more laid back acoustic.

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Speaker 1: I think so too. The the funny things not funny.

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Speaker 1: The interesting thing, um that's been occurring to me when

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Speaker 1: we've been talking about this, is this the similarities between

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Speaker 1: the Elvis situation and a much more recent celebrity death

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Speaker 1: that will likely spawn many conspiracy theories as time goes on.

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Speaker 1: Sure already has I'm not aware of. But it's of

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Speaker 1: course Michael Jackson very similar circumstances. I mean, he you know,

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Speaker 1: was in horrible debts, had been used and abused by

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Speaker 1: his handlers and his management, and his family isolated, isolated, depressed,

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Speaker 1: had a personal doctor of suspicious moral you know, fiber.

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Speaker 1: Yet it was just given him books of whatever it

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Speaker 1: was that he wanted, supposedly to help him sleep, but

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Speaker 1: honestly probably just a dope him into submission so he

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Speaker 1: didn't have to think about all the horrible stuff that

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Speaker 1: he had to deal with. Michael Jackson is is a

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Speaker 1: very similar case, and I'm glad you point that out.

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Speaker 1: And again also like an example of someone that was

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Speaker 1: just that just achieved just you know, extra human levels

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Speaker 1: of fame, like to the point where it was all

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Speaker 1: he knew. That was his entire existence, from being a child,

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Speaker 1: he always was in the spotlights. He knew nothing else.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Elvis obviously had a bit of a normal

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Speaker 1: life for a while, but when he hit, I mean

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Speaker 1: he hit so hard that it was just like his

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Speaker 1: past was practically irrelevant. Yeah, that you know, that's a

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Speaker 1: good point. Michael Jackson born nineteen fifty eight August twenty nine,

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Speaker 1: so he's an August birthday too, and uh declared dead

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Speaker 1: June two thousand nine, and he was declared dead of

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Speaker 1: an acute drug overdose. UM some drugs that I've I've

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Speaker 1: never heard of or tried. Yeah, I mean, from what

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Speaker 1: I've read, propofile is some sort of like um anesthesia. Actually,

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Speaker 1: maybe double check me on that, but I believe I

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Speaker 1: was reading an article about were there talking. It was

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Speaker 1: just an odd thing to prescribe in the way that

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Speaker 1: it was being quote unquote prescribed right when it's your

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Speaker 1: personal doctor. There's just no checks and balances. Oh you

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Speaker 1: know what. It's also um, I believe it's also considered

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Speaker 1: a hypnotic amnesthetic agents, So it okay general anesthesia UM

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Speaker 1: for something you would give a person going in for

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Speaker 1: a procedure, you know of some kind, probably not typically

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Speaker 1: used just to make you know, zombifie a celebrity. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's very strange. So the conspiracy there is is similar. Um, well,

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Speaker 1: this conspiracy a little different here. The theory is that

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Speaker 1: his doctor personally and purposefully kill him. Do you have

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Speaker 1: any info as to to what end? I mean? Did

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Speaker 1: he have irons in the fires? But he was paid

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Speaker 1: getting financial you know that he was paid by the

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Speaker 1: family that was one of that was one of them,

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Speaker 1: or you'll hear people will say that he was paid

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Speaker 1: by them, that he was paid by a record label,

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Speaker 1: or you will hear that he was um just negligent um.

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Speaker 1: So he actually went to jail. Dr Conrad Murray that's

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Speaker 1: his name, he went to He went to jail for

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Speaker 1: killing Michael Jackson and he was released in October two thousand, thirteens.

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Speaker 1: And there are a civil suit of some kind, I believe.

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Speaker 1: So he served two years of a four year sentence

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Speaker 1: for causing um, Michael Jackson's death. And uh, these these

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Speaker 1: kind of conspiracy theories that that grew up around this

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Speaker 1: are as far as I can tell, not substantiated with

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Speaker 1: any hard evidence yet. Yeah. I mean the thing about

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Speaker 1: that is it does you hear about celebrities like, for example,

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Speaker 1: James Brown. I actually grew up in Augusta, Georgia, and

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Speaker 1: James Brown, when he was alive was his worst enemy.

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Speaker 1: Like he wouldn't allow his music to be used in

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Speaker 1: certain ways. You know, he insisted on being his own

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Speaker 1: boss and managing all his business affairs pretty directly, and

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Speaker 1: consequently he wasn't the greatest at it. I feel like

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Speaker 1: when he passed away, it opened up a lot of

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Speaker 1: opportunities for you know, his music to be used posthumously

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Speaker 1: in a way that was never possible when he was alive.

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Speaker 1: That's very similar to me as to what happened with

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Speaker 1: Michael Jackson. You know, he his catalog is a lot

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Speaker 1: more valuable to the people you know, in a position

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Speaker 1: to benefit from it after he passed away than when

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Speaker 1: he was alive. Right, Yeah, that's that's a very that's

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Speaker 1: a very disturbing but accurate point. The thing with Michael

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Speaker 1: Jackson stuff is there's another Elvis con Elvis esque conspiracy

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Speaker 1: that he's not dead. You can actually visit websites like

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Speaker 1: Michael Jackson not Dead dot word press and it's original. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they talk about that, uh that if you look

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Speaker 1: at it, the facts don't add up, and that the

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Speaker 1: behavior of the family indicates that he's alive. There's somehow

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Speaker 1: in on it. But I think that I think the

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Speaker 1: part of it is just because of the importance of

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Speaker 1: celebrity occupies in the secular world. Now, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's quite possible, and I use the

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Speaker 1: word possible very carefully. It's not quite possible. No, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: It's like mathematically approaching zero percent possible that Michael Jackson

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Speaker 1: could be listening to our show right now, in which

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Speaker 1: case you can always write to us and we'll we'll

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Speaker 1: we'll tell the story. Uh, just another one real quick. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Andy Kaufman, right, you've heard about that. Yeah. Andy Kaufman

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Speaker 1: was supposed to have, according to some internet rumors, uh,

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Speaker 1: faked his death. Someone went online a while back and

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Speaker 1: said Hey, uh, I'm Andy Kaufman faked my death. And

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Speaker 1: we received an email from a guy purporting to have

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Speaker 1: the information about how Andy Kaufman faked his death. Followed

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Speaker 1: up on it, but nothing really came of it. And

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Speaker 1: so with that guy, I have to wonder, without going

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Speaker 1: in details, I have to wonder if maybe Kaufman was

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Speaker 1: passing away and who he was going to die and

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Speaker 1: told his friends. Hey, in like a few years, pretend

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Speaker 1: to meet me and say that I faked my dad,

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Speaker 1: because that sounds like a great That sounds like something

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Speaker 1: he would mean. Are you are you familiar with this

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Speaker 1: character Tony Clifton Tony Clifton, Yeah, So he was sort

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Speaker 1: of this kind of borish entertainment like manager type, like

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Speaker 1: sort of like a nightclub promoter type. Kill um. So

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Speaker 1: Kaufman would play him in a fat suit and like,

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Speaker 1: you know, mustache and like really greasy hair kind of look,

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Speaker 1: and he was just kind of a troll, you know.

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Speaker 1: He would just do shows as Tony Clifton, completely troll

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Speaker 1: the audience and it wasn't exactly funny if you weren't

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Speaker 1: in on the joke. And that's the thing about Andy

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Speaker 1: Kaufman is a lot of times, nobody was in on

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Speaker 1: the joke until much, much, much later, and so he

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Speaker 1: was in a lot of ways doing these things for himself.

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Speaker 1: But that's why it's sort of like now it became apparent. Um,

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Speaker 1: this was in that biopic Man on the Moon when

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Speaker 1: Jim Carrey that he wasn't always the one playing Tony Clifton.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it would be his friend and I believe manager

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Speaker 1: Bob Zamuda, who would also play the character very convincingly,

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Speaker 1: you know, similarly to the way Kaufman would play him.

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Speaker 1: And in recent years that character has kind of popped

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Speaker 1: up again here and there. So Kaufman was always the

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Speaker 1: kind of quote unquote comedian that was, you know, multiple

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Speaker 1: steps ahead of his audience, and he you know, he

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Speaker 1: definitely had some success obviously, but kind of left a

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Speaker 1: lot of general audience types scratching their heads. And he

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Speaker 1: definitely laid the groundwork for what some could argue, you know,

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Speaker 1: would be a successful faking a one's own death. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's that's a good point. And there was

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Speaker 1: some recent news about this. It's a little that's a

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Speaker 1: little strange. So Bob Zemuda, you know, wrote a book

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Speaker 1: called Andy Kappman the truth finally and it's it alleges

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Speaker 1: that Kaufman's death was this prank and it's finally coming out.

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Speaker 1: He actually appeared on a podcast, fitz Dog Radio, where

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Speaker 1: he told the host Greg fitz Simmons that he had

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Speaker 1: invested like fifty grand in the book. But then they

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Speaker 1: got in a again an argument. Nolan and Zamuda apparently

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Speaker 1: stormed off the show because Uh, fitz Simmons, as as

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Speaker 1: it turns out, uh doubted Samuda's intentions. So people, um,

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Speaker 1: people were doubting both sides. But they were doubting that

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Speaker 1: Kaufman was dead, but they were also doubting that Zamuda's

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Speaker 1: story was accurate. And we leave that to you to

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Speaker 1: decide if you want to, if you want to come

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Speaker 1: to your own conclusions, we'd love to hear what you think.

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Speaker 1: Is it just a a posthumous prank or is it

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Speaker 1: something something much much different? You know? Uh, but that's

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Speaker 1: that's Andy Coppman for you. Yeah. I mean, he is

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Speaker 1: a perfect example of an unreliable narrator talking about himself.

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Speaker 1: No one knows if he's telling the truth ever, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean the guy when he was on taxi you know,

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Speaker 1: I washed dishes at the deli next door just for kicks,

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Speaker 1: just because he thought it was funny kind of, you know,

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Speaker 1: And it was very very interesting figure And and Taxi

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Speaker 1: just on the side, don't has one of my favorite,

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Speaker 1: uh intro songs. Isn't It great? Uh? So, I don't

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Speaker 1: know why I like isn't it great? As though we

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Speaker 1: were going to disagree and I was going to storm

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Speaker 1: off the show. It's right up there with Mash Mash

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Speaker 1: is good too. I like, you know, I find that

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Speaker 1: I enjoyed the themes too sitcoms much more than I

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Speaker 1: enjoyed the actual show. That's fair. I yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I might have a problem. So uh, speaking of problems,

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Speaker 1: you know who else has one? Tupac Shakur. He either

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Speaker 1: has a problem because he's dead or he has a

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Speaker 1: problem because he is in hiding. So uh he tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about Tupac. Sure, why not. Tupac

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Speaker 1: Shakur was born on June sixteenth, nineteen seventy one, and

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Speaker 1: he died um supposedly on September nine, six How he

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Speaker 1: died was from multiple gunshot wounds, and the official story

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Speaker 1: was that an involved gang activity. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So just past eleven PM, September seven, Uh, that he

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Speaker 1: is in a car with Sugar Night at the intersection

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Speaker 1: of Flamingo Road in Coval Lane. Uh. And they were

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Speaker 1: idling at the red light and a white Cadillac from Sorry,

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Speaker 1: this is in Vegas. Yes, this is in Vegas. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And they rolled up to the passenger side and they

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Speaker 1: fired and Tupac was hit four times. One bullet critically

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Speaker 1: punctured his long Sugar Knight, for the most part, was unharmed.

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Speaker 1: That's the I think he had injuries from bullet fragments.

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Speaker 1: That's the official story, But of course that's only the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the unofficial story, which is that people people

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Speaker 1: not only believe to Pat Core faked his death, they

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Speaker 1: also believe that he left clues in his albums about

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Speaker 1: his about his plan to fake his death, like the

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Speaker 1: marca Velli things and and you Can you Can go U.

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Speaker 1: The marca Velli record didn't come out until after he

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Speaker 1: had passed, right, That's part of why people thought it

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Speaker 1: was a clue. I would like to point out that

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Speaker 1: if you really want to fake your death in a

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Speaker 1: believable way, leaving clues to glow in globally distributed albums

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Speaker 1: is not the best way to do it, you know.

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Speaker 1: But there's a there's an interesting addendum to this because

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Speaker 1: Suge Knight himself at one point said that he doesn't

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Speaker 1: believe Poc is dead. He thinks Poc somewhere else. He said,

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Speaker 1: nobody has seen Tupac dead, and uh he this is

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Speaker 1: Shug Knight. There's a quote the person who supposedly cremated Tupac.

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Speaker 1: This guy got about three million dollars personally for me cash,

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Speaker 1: and next thing I know, I never heard from the

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Speaker 1: guy or seeing him again. He retired and left. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: Why did Schuge Night give this man three million dollars?

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Speaker 1: And it's kind of vague, I know, I guess he

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Speaker 1: just you understand, that's like a justificer, like catch him

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Speaker 1: on a good day. I know. Now it sounds like

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Speaker 1: Sugar is implying Schug Knight is implying that he helped

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Speaker 1: cover up that. So one week after Tupac was pronounced dead,

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Speaker 1: a thousand people from Haiti called police saying they have

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Speaker 1: seen Tupac. Other other people, Yeah, yeah, other people have.

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Speaker 1: You can find some You can find all kinds of

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Speaker 1: websites where they're laying out the evidence of these sorts

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Speaker 1: of things. Right, So for people who really do believe

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Speaker 1: um that Tupac Shakur faked his death and left clues

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Speaker 1: in his music, one of the things I used to

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Speaker 1: hear it was the idea of like, oh, well, he's

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Speaker 1: just waiting for the statute of limitations to expire on

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Speaker 1: what right on? On fake homicide? Yeah, I don't think

423
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,719
Speaker 1: that's I don't think that. Uh, that doesn't sound like

424
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: it makes sense, you know, and I'm not a lawyer,

425
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: but it doesn't sound like it would actually equate to

426
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: any kind of enforceable crime or unenforceable Here's a question.

427
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: Is it illegal to fake your on death? I guess

428
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: it depends on how you go about it. It's certainly

429
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: illegal to do it for the purposes of getting insurance money, right,

430
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: But I mean, is it considered some form of fraud

431
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: if you're if you're literally just lying to people and

432
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,959
Speaker 1: fabricating stories, if you're just doing it for fun. I

433
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: don't think it is unless it unless it impinges upon

434
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: their rights in a in a certain way. But if

435
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: you if you want to fake your own death and

436
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: you want to do it as a prank over the weekend.

437
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 1: First off, you are a messed up person. You're a

438
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: messed up person. But but secondly, you know, if you're not,

439
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: like if you damage property while you do it, or

440
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: if or if a law is broken because of what

441
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: you have done or right, then I'm sure that would

442
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: be easier prosecute. But I don't know if just faking

443
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: your own death and then coming back and saying, ah,

444
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: psych sucker, I don't know if that actually is illegal

445
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: or if it's just a massive dick move. Well, I

446
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: mean I could imagine that if there was a police

447
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: investigation involved, Yeah, that you could be held or wasted

448
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: resources that got poured into looking into whether or not

449
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: you got murdered by getting ativity or right. You know,

450
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: that's a good point. I think I'm gonna have to

451
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: re rethink my week. Obviously, there's lots of different ways

452
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 1: these things can happen. So what do you think about

453
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: the idea of Kurt Cobain. Uh, Kurt Kurt Cobain, of course,

454
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: Uh passed away after a self inflicted gunshot wound. Right?

455
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: Have you seen the new crime scene photos that just

456
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: came out. I have not. They're very interesting. I don't

457
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: know that they necessarily reveal anything new, but they're just

458
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: they're very Um what's the we're moving for? I don't know.

459
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: They're just they're they're there. They've got a very haunting

460
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: quality to time for sure. Are they gruesome? No, there's

461
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: definitely no blood. You just see you see that he's

462
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: still wearing the wrist band from the rehab facility that

463
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: he had just left. Like you see his arm, you

464
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: see his box, his drug box with all his you know,

465
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 1: the needles and little packets of heroin and you know,

466
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical great things that are in there. Um, you see

467
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: his suicide note that's sort of think it's it's in

468
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: like a plant, a planter or something like with a

469
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: pen like it's a pen stuck through it and it's

470
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: it's kind of stuck onto something like that, and um, yeah,

471
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: it just it's it just it just gives you a

472
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: sense of of the scene that's a lot more vivid

473
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: than you know, what had been out there in the past.

474
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: But to me, it definitely drives with a lot of

475
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: the reports of of what went down. Obviously, one of

476
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: the conspiracy theories here is that his his wife had

477
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: something to do with it, right that uh that Courtney Love. Oh.

478
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: Kurt Cobain born February twenty, nineteen sixty seven, passed away

479
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: April fifth. Nine. Investigators say that he I think sustained

480
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: the gunshot wound on April third, so he might have

481
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: been alive a little while afterwards. Yeah. So people believe

482
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: that Courtney Love was involved in arranging for actually arranging

483
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: for a homicide rather than a suicide. Uh. Nick Broomfield

484
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: had a documentary called Curt and Courtney where a guy

485
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: named Elden Hope also known as Ducci Uh, singer of

486
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: a band called The Mentors, said that Courtney Love talked

487
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: to him in a record store and offered to pay

488
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: him fifty grand to kill Kurt Cobain. Here's it doesn't

489
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: jive with me about that. I mean, the man is

490
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: a known narcotics addict. Why why fake a suicide self

491
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: inflicted gunshot? Why not just tie him up and shoot

492
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: him up with too much heroin and and have it

493
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: be an overdose. No one would bad and eyelash at that,

494
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: you know. That's yeah, That's that's another thing because if

495
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: you think about it, heroin addiction is m and this

496
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: is maybe a This is maybe a disturbing thing to say. No,

497
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: but heroin addiction itself is a slow suicide, absolutely, And

498
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: I mean, and you know, Kurt and Courtney had it bad.

499
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen Montage of Heck, which

500
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: is the more recent documentary that was very strangely sanctioned

501
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: by Courtney Love and the Kobaana State, and that they

502
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: got access to a lot of interesting archival footage of

503
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: him as a child and like you know, a teenager

504
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: are playing guitar and things like that. But the most

505
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: telling stuff in the documentary is the footage that Kurt

506
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: and Courtney made of each other, whether they were before

507
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: they had their child, um when they had their child,

508
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: and every single moment they are out of their minds

509
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: on heroin, They're they're just they're nodding out constantly. They're

510
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: just acting completely insane. You know, there are scenes where

511
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: they're holding their child and you see Kurt just like

512
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: as eyelids drooping and just kind of like you know,

513
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: his head bobbing up and down, and it's just it's

514
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: very very disturbing. So I mean, my point is that

515
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: these two you know people, it's it's a very sad thing. Um,

516
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: But they were very much in the throes of this addiction,

517
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, throughout this period and up to Kurt's death.

518
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: So I just I would say, if you were gonna fake,

519
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: you were going to have somebody like Kurt Cobain killed,

520
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,239
Speaker 1: I think there would be easier ways to do it

521
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: than having him, you know, shoot himself. Right, it seems

522
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: like it would be more likely he would decide to

523
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: do it impulsively, and apparently, according to Love, had suicide

524
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: attempts before. But you know who does not believe the

525
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: official story. A private investigator named Tom Grant. Right, I

526
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,719
Speaker 1: don't know about this. Oh well, he uh, he was

527
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: from what I understand, he was hired by Courtney Love

528
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: after Kurt Cobain went missing from rehab, and he has

529
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,479
Speaker 1: a website called kobain case dot com where you can

530
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: go if you want to learn more about it. He

531
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: says that after months of investigation and interviews, he believes

532
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: that Courtney Love and her live in nanny Michael DeWitt,

533
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: conspired to kill Cobain. But his his central arguments are

534
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: fairly detailed. Is just to the one about the angle

535
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: of a gun or the way like he used like

536
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: a ruler or something to like the jammed where the um,

537
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: what's it called the hammer like he was able to

538
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: kick the thing out and that's what caused the gun

539
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: to go off. And I'm not starting no, no, no, no, Yeah,

540
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: you're exactly right. He he has uh, he has a

541
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: masked a great deal of what I think he feels

542
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: is conclusive evidence. And for a while, especially given your

543
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: age of my age, uh, you know, we were we

544
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: were around when that guy was incredibly popular and passed away,

545
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: and a lot of my friends just believed that he

546
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: did not commit suicide. Um. And our you know, now

547
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: we're talking about this. Our one of our editors, Alison

548
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: louder Milt, told me a really interesting thing. She said that, uh,

549
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: she had run across this theory that music labels and

550
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: the music industry conspires to kill musicians in their early

551
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: twenties so that they own the rights to their music. Yeah,

552
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,479
Speaker 1: I mean, similar to what I was talking about with

553
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson and ye. And I mean I don't know

554
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: that there's a conspiracy about James Brown's death, but similar, Yeah,

555
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: it makes it makes sense from a financial respective, especially

556
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: if you have an uncooperative quote unquote that's right. Yeah,

557
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: Kurt was definitely that. And then, uh, just just for

558
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: just for adequate representation of Matt Frederick, we have to

559
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: mention one of his favorite ones, which is the idea

560
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: that Paul McCartney died in a car accident earlier into

561
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: the Beatles career and was replaced by a look alike,

562
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:43,959
Speaker 1: and that somehow, for decades no one has burst that bubble.

563
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: Turn me on dead Man, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly,

564
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: And uh, that one I think is more of a

565
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: pop culture phenomenon. But let's talk for a moment about

566
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: why people believe these things. We talked about several different celebrities,

567
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: We've talked about several different theories about their deaths, either

568
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: cover up or it didn't occur. So why why, uh

569
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: is the population so interested in these stories? I feel

570
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: like people want a mystery. People people just don't want

571
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: things to be so cut and dry, especially when it

572
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 1: comes with comes to what is essentially, as we said

573
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the episode, the modern equivalent of

574
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: a god, you know, so puts so much energy into

575
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: loving and consuming every piece of media that these people,

576
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: you know, produce that they just they want they either

577
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: want to believe they're still alive, or they want to

578
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: believe that some nefarious, you know, shadowy thing is responsible

579
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: for taking away this person, you know, from them because

580
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: it's a very personal relationship with musicians, you know what

581
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: I mean. That's a very good point. And and in

582
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: the in the defense of that, we have to also

583
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: acknowledge that it is completely possible for a cover up

584
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: of the actual circumstances of a death to occur. Absolutely,

585
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a lot more common common, you know,

586
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: a lot more plausible. Well yeah, and that's because people

587
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: have things to gain. I don't understand what a celebrity

588
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,439
Speaker 1: has to gain by quote unquote faking their own death,

589
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: and almost all of these situations, that's the thing that

590
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: that leaves me cold. I just don't see the benefit

591
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: to the celebrity, and right especially when consider uh the

592
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: facts about faking a death. Fact number one, it is tough.

593
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 1: It is way tougher than a lot of people might think.

594
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: Actually today, yeah, especially today, and each year is just

595
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: going to become more difficult because of all the breadcrumbs

596
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: we leave around. And look, you don't have to own

597
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: a cell phone, you don't have to have a Gmail

598
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: account or a laptop or I don't a fit bit whatever.

599
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: The mere fact that you are surrounded by other people

600
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: who do means that you are able to be tracked

601
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: the prevalence of c C t v s. And I

602
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: know it sounds like paranoia, noal, but it's only paranoia

603
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: if you ascribe some sort of motivation to the monitoring.

604
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: I think this is just how how things are going

605
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: to work. Privacy is not long for this world, and

606
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: historically it it didn't start very long ago either. Right,

607
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: Privacy may end up being just this anomalous social blit,

608
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: but that means that. And then if this were the

609
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, you and I could uh say that we're

610
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: going on a road trip to Vegas because we're going

611
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: to film the Elvis convention, right. Uh yeah, well he

612
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: would still be alive. So maybe we're just going to

613
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: see Elvis, right, and we're gonna film it for our

614
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: show or something. And then we would take a car

615
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: we've lickd with date all our assets. We would uh

616
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: make sure that the car we would we would abandon

617
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: the car or we would uh dispose of it in

618
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: a very dangerous area or a very spectacular way that

619
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: would leave no remains and then we just never would

620
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: show up to Vegas. I mean, we could also never

621
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: talk to anyone we knew. Ever, again, we couldn't talk

622
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: to each other. We would be ghosts. It just seems

623
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 1: so messy. It's just like what, you know, why why

624
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: not just withdraw just you know, by an island. Yeah,

625
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: you know, I just say I want to be alone.

626
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, no more interviews. It's pretty easy. I mean,

627
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: eventually the press is gonna get tired of camping out

628
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: on your lawn, you know, right. Because one person who

629
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: did retire from public life, there's a great example of

630
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 1: that would be J. D. Salinger. J D. Salinger notoriously

631
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: didn't publish anything for very long long time, and he

632
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 1: was granting interviews uh sometimes at his home in Cornish Flats,

633
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: New Hampshire, but only to uh pretty female students. So yeah,

634
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: there's nothing, there's nothing creepy about that. But look if okay,

635
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: let's take our case, if even if we had all

636
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: the all the stuff in order, all our ducks in row,

637
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: be very difficult for us to disappear on our own

638
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: and we're not celebrities. So a celebrity, a well known

639
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: person whose face can be identified, that person is going

640
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: to have a much much more difficult time. You know,

641
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: you have to get plastic surgery, and and just even

642
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: for you and I or you listeners. But again, I'm

643
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: not saying you should do it. You need to be

644
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 1: aware that faking your death requires planning, discipline, a boatload

645
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: of money. Did you like that? And uh? And even

646
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,280
Speaker 1: if you do everything perfectly, you're still gonna need an

647
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: unbelievable amount of luck. I've been watching the show I

648
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: know you have two Narcos on netflixtastic. There's a great

649
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: let's sort of like when Escobar is on the run,

650
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: just the amount, the sheer amount of effort it requires

651
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: on his part to not get caught. And granted it

652
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't be exactly the same if you were to fact

653
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,240
Speaker 1: your undeaf. People wouldn't necessarily be on a man hunt

654
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: for you. Sure, but but still you know they're there

655
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: are there are things that are related. But there's a

656
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: great line from the main d e A officer where

657
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: it's something like, you know, criminals on the run have

658
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: to get lucky every time, and we as those that

659
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,959
Speaker 1: are chasing them, only have to get lucky once. Yeah,

660
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: I remember that that that applies here because I mean

661
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: it just it would be the same thing. It would

662
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: be like being on the lamb. You could never let

663
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: your guard down, I just unless you were. I just

664
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: don't understand the point that makes sense to me, right,

665
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: And perhaps there's something else the story we don't know,

666
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: I guess if I'm trying to be reasonable with it.

667
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: But you you make an excellent point. Also, I love

668
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: that line from Narcos to UM. I think we were

669
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: talking about that off air one time, right, we had

670
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: a Narco fan club meeting. Uh, So there's there's something else.

671
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: So if you need all this money, right, you need

672
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: this influence, UM, and you need to keep it very secret,

673
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: then that means you need power. And the people who

674
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: were most capable of faking their own deaths, I think

675
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: are more likely to be fallen heads of state, maybe

676
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: even assisted by another country's intelligence agency. Right, And that's

677
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: where we get those theories about Adolph Hitler escaping to

678
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: South America after World War Two. We'd know that Nazis

679
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: and uh members of the Nazi Party did escape, and

680
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: we're so much more at stake in those situations. And

681
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 1: if you're if you're all right, we have time for Tangent.

682
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: I just want to talk about the the Hitler's skull stuff. Yeah, okay,

683
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: So in a lot of the biographies we read about

684
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: Hitler and how Hitler's death happened, it's suicide, right like

685
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: he and eb yeah ebo braun Uh. They he takes

686
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: the Sana pill, shoots himself. They both kill each other.

687
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: But um, it looks like Hitler's death might need to

688
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: be rewritten and left open ended because researchers claimed that

689
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: the skull fragment that have been secretly preserved by Soviet

690
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 1: intelligence for decades actually belonged to a woman under forty.

691
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: And this story was announced in two thousand and nine.

692
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: So maybe this means that, um, maybe this means that

693
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: something different happened to the body. To some people, it

694
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: means he got away. But this this idea, this open

695
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: ended thing, I don't know, man. It just seems more

696
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: likely to me that someone who was in charge of

697
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: a country, or Pablo Escobar or something would have the

698
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: means to fake their death, you know, absolutely, And I

699
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: mean you know, in this situation, you could almost argue

700
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: that it is more of the cover up where it's

701
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, the the folks that were responsible for taking

702
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: him alive or making sure that he you know, perished,

703
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: didn't do the job, didn't get the job done, so

704
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: they had to cover there. But you know, with the

705
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: banks call of some kind and never let it be known,

706
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, or maybe or maybe the way in

707
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: which he was killed was not suicide and they were

708
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: covering up the manner of the death. I don't know.

709
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: It's strange. It reminds me of the Osama bin Laden

710
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: episode that we did last week. Uh what okay? That

711
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: that goes into such a good question too, man, because

712
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 1: how can you really know what happens if there's not

713
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 1: evidence of a body. In all of the cases that

714
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: we have described so far, there have been allegations of

715
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: kind of of hinky I guess Chuck would say, hinky autopsies. Yeah,

716
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's his word. It weirds me out,

717
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: but I'll use it. I think it applies. Uh So,

718
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: how much can you know for witnesses to these deaths?

719
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: Questions about faking a death or a cover up might

720
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: sound profoundly offensive, you know what I mean? Like what

721
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 1: if what Like in the case of the Kurt Cobain suicide,

722
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: stuff if he just committed suicide on his own due

723
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: to whatever factors right then, and you were his surviving um,

724
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: the mother of his child. You know that that's a

725
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: pretty damaging thing to experience for people to say you

726
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: killed him, you know. And and so I I understand

727
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: why that would be offensive. And we're certainly not trying

728
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: to offend any survivors of that kind of situation, whether

729
00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: celebrity or someone in your own life, because celebrities in

730
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: the modern world again or not treated as human as

731
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: human beings. If I can just piggyback off of your

732
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: tangent for a second, especially with the Courtney Love situation,

733
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: she is a perfect example of kind of a scapegoat

734
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: because people just didn't like her very much. They didn't

735
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: like their like friends in their circle, in Kurt's circle,

736
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: in her personal life. Yeah, I felt like she was

737
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: a bad influencer, felt like, you know, she wasn't good

738
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: for him, and things like that, you know, Like especially

739
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: so one of Kurt's oldest friends, Buzz Osborne from the

740
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: band The Melvin's Um, he has come out and of

741
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: this documentary montage of heck kind of said that it

742
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: was a lot of it was complete bogus complete fabrication.

743
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: And he's also said that Kurt would never have killed himself,

744
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: and that a lot of the stuff that he says

745
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: in the movie where you hear him talking on these

746
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: cassette recordings or answering machine tapes, sounds very morose and

747
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: very like, you know, having this existential crisis and just

748
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: sounds completely you know, to rest. He says a lot

749
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 1: of that was for show, like he was just kind

750
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: of a sarcastic, mischievous kind of dude who you know,

751
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: liked to troll people in a very Andy Kaufman asked

752
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: kind of way if we bring it back again. So

753
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: I don't know what any of that means, um, but

754
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: it's interesting, especially someone who has known him for as

755
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 1: long as because buzz Osborne knew him far longer than

756
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: he knew Courtney loved so he knew him, and they

757
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: were they were kids together more or less. And I see, yeah.

758
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: And then also grief does strange things to people and

759
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: affects the way you see the world. Um. After the

760
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 1: thing I read, I read something a long time ago

761
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: that I thought was the best analogy, and it was

762
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: or not analogy, but it was the best way to

763
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: say it, and it was like, grief is sitting by

764
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: a table with your hands hovering over a phone that

765
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 1: never rings, and that that, to me is shows how

766
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: profoundly this kind of thing can affect the way someone

767
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: looks at the world. And so I'm you know, everybody

768
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: at some point in their life is going to go

769
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,919
Speaker 1: through the experience of losing people, right, and the last

770
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,919
Speaker 1: person you lose is yourself. It sounds like a very

771
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: pessimistic bumb wrap the way I put it. Don't worry.

772
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: A lot of great things happen in between a sort

773
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: of amazing stuff, but this this idea. You know, if

774
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: someone that you cherish passes away, then of course the

775
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: natural inclination for a lot of people is to say, no,

776
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: it's it didn't happen the way it sounds like it did.

777
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: Point to someone else and say you did it right,

778
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: because that anger kind of gives you an outlet. But

779
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: let's suppose I was sorry. No, I'm saying, especially if

780
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 1: we're talking about someone like a like a rock star,

781
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,919
Speaker 1: like an infuential writer or a performer or some kind

782
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: who just has legions of fans, you that grief becomes

783
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: exponentially increased and and and then you have all of

784
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: these different perspectives that can create these various differing scenarios

785
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: as to what happened. Like, you know, it's not the

786
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,840
Speaker 1: same as if Grandma dies and I'm sad about it.

787
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 1: You know, my mother and father said about it. My

788
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: family sad about it. But it's not the same as

789
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 1: millions and millions of people being sad about it to

790
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: the point of, you know, holding a vigil at her

791
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,320
Speaker 1: his or her grave, like when a pope passes away,

792
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 1: when JFK passed away. And Okay, these are things that

793
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: some listeners are probably wondering. No, Ben, why aren't you

794
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: mentioning these It's because right now we have we have

795
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: some stuff on those um on those specific instances, uh,

796
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: and you can check those out on our YouTube and

797
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: further down in the stream we have audio and a

798
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: few of them, I think, But for now, let's let's

799
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: think about I don't know, No, do you think we

800
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: did okay, like due diligence to the importance of respecting

801
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: the survivors of death. I think so. And I guess

802
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: my whole point was that And you're talking about somebody

803
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: of this magnitude of this larger than life, you know, persona,

804
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: the survivors are everyone. Yeah, that's a good point, legion.

805
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,479
Speaker 1: So it's like a completely different situation. And that's why

806
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: I think there are many, many different ideas about what

807
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 1: could happened different because you've just got all of these

808
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: different hands in the different like narratives. Yeah, so okay, Well,

809
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: let's suppose, then, in the most respectful manner possible, just

810
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: for the sake of argument, that a celebrity or ahead

811
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: of state somehow did fake his or her death. It's

812
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 1: the last part of our show today. We're going to

813
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: talk about how to fake at death. The first things first, though,

814
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 1: the good news, I guess it's good news is that

815
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: people have successfully fake their deaths. The problem is that

816
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: they usually get caught because they're you know, they're still alive.

817
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: So a good example of this is John Stonehouse. You

818
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:08,280
Speaker 1: know the story I think you do. That's a good yeah, alright.

819
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 1: So John stone House was a British politician who got

820
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: way in over his head during his business dealings, and

821
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: he started cooking the books and got when that the

822
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: Department of Trade and Industry was looking into his and

823
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 1: his stuff, looking into his business. So he started moving

824
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: money around, um and set up a new identity as

825
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: Joseph Markham. Okay, so gets better. On November nineteen seventy four,

826
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: he faked his own suicide by leaving uh piles of

827
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: clothes on the beach and making it look like he

828
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 1: had drowned. I mean, you know, because again produced the body.

829
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: It's gonna take a while. Um. He was instead on

830
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: his way to Australia, actually to make a new life

831
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: with his mistress. Of course. So John was eventually caught

832
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: in Australia by a very savvy banker who caught onto

833
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 1: the fact that he was moving money around under multiple alias.

834
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: So police first thought he was the fugitive Lord Lucan

835
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: Lucien's Luca. I called Luca because it sounds more evil twirling,

836
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: did he twirlet? Do you think and cackle? I think

837
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: he might, you know, I hope? So, yeah, you know,

838
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 1: I think Luca looking right? So um, police at first

839
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: thought he was this fugitive Lord Lucan, who, two weeks

840
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: before stone House did it was also believed to effect

841
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: his own death. What are the chances go? Figure? So

842
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 1: John was eventually identified by a photo of himself on

843
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: a list of the recently deceased and was arrested on

844
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 1: December twenty four, right, and like any other people who

845
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: attempted to uh fake their own death, he was he

846
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 1: was eventually caught. It's interesting because there's you know, I

847
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 1: love unnecessary words. I know I could best there could

848
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: be Okay, Well, thanks man, I've got one for you.

849
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 1: The proper term for faking your own death. I didn't

850
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,280
Speaker 1: even know there was such a thing was pseudo side

851
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: like pseudonym to have a minute to take that one

852
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: in pseudos That sounds like a metal band, it does.

853
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: It sounds like a pseudo cidal. That is fantastic. Um.

854
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: I love that. So if you want to fake your

855
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: own death, that would make you pseudo cidal. Right, Okay,

856
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: So there are some other people that uh fake thrown

857
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: death with less success. So it's a guy named Stephen

858
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,800
Speaker 1: chin Lung who faked his death during the September eleventh

859
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: attacks to evade a charge of passport fraud. And if

860
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: if you think about it, it's a very cold Mackavellian thing.

861
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 1: But if you think about it, that's a that's an

862
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: opportunity to do so. Is in a time of national disaster,

863
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: rule of law deteriorating. That's that's one of the perfect

864
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: times to fake a death. Other people have done so

865
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: with much less success, often to try to build you know,

866
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: insurers or something like that. A guy named Kid and

867
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:30,720
Speaker 1: Kissy you might remember from the Electric kalle Ad Asset trip. Yeah,

868
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 1: he faked his death in ninety six and went away

869
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 1: to Mexico to avoid charges from marijuana and he came

870
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: back again. Kind of a little bit more of a

871
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: understandable reason to figure on death if you have if

872
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 1: you've got a rap that you're trying to beat, you know,

873
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: sort of like a the equivalent of going on the lamb,

874
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: but trying to make it so they don't come after you. Now,

875
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 1: one guy who one guy who did get completely away though,

876
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: is the guy you mentioned earlier, Lord Luken. So yeah,

877
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: Lord Luken, this British aristocrat just completely vanished in the

878
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: wee hours of November eighth, nineteen seventy four, after the

879
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: death of his children's nanny and an attack on his

880
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: ex wife. And he was, you know, obviously widely suspected

881
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 1: to be the murderer. Yeah, and uh, it's pretty it's

882
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 1: pretty fair that he I think he was definitely the

883
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 1: murderer would say that would see disappeared instantly after having

884
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: a means to escape. People have been trying to find

885
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 1: sightings or people have been trying to find the guy

886
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 1: for years and years and years. He has numerous sightings

887
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: in the British media. If I may, what a what

888
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: a scoundrel, you know, what a rep scallion, scalliwag, a

889
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: ne'er do well. Indeed, it's through Lord Lucan again as

890
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: exists in the seventies, and we're talking about him like

891
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: if he's like some sort of Dickensian villain. Right, yeah,

892
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: but that's what it sounds like to me. It does

893
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 1: absconded with the night the pipe. It's yeah, it does

894
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 1: sound it sounds like an episode of real life episode

895
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 1: of clue. So we are going to tell you some

896
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: of the things that people need to do in order

897
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 1: to fake their own death. It's not as easy as

898
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: disappearing completely one, especially in this day and age social

899
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: media silence, none of it, none of it. Some some

900
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: would say, um, six months before your death or whatever,

901
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,760
Speaker 1: or some would say delete your accounts. Deleting your accounts

902
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: is too much. The leading your accounts is going to

903
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 1: be suspicious um, unless you do it four years before

904
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:41,240
Speaker 1: your plan reaches fruition. You'll probably also need a friend

905
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 1: or a partner in crime of some sort who will

906
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: be able to touch on the social media nets and announce,

907
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, someone's missing and uh oh, it just

908
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: encouraged me. By the way, guys, Matt is not about

909
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 1: to fake his own death. You know, we don't think No, no,

910
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: we don't think so. Pretty sure he didn't say anything

911
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 1: to us about it. And there's some similar things to

912
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: going off the grid, like if you want to develop

913
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 1: an alias. One thing that people used to do is

914
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: they would um when they were getting a utility bill

915
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: or um something that leaves a paper trail, like a

916
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: credit card or something, they would change start slowly changing

917
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: their their name one letter at a time. So it

918
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 1: would be like Ben Bowling with a G been uh Bowland,

919
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:30,799
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I mean legally, like what

920
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,919
Speaker 1: are we talking about? No, just on the on the

921
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: utility bill and start establishing that. And then when you

922
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: have a utility bill that establishes that kind of alias,

923
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 1: I mean, don't they require some sort of identification in

924
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: order to change information on a utility. But now it's

925
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: much more difficult, but that's what people used to do.

926
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: Keep the details vague, right, Um, And and depends it

927
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: all depends. Are you planning to come back? Is this

928
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: a stunt for like your novel? Or is this get

929
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: like a David Blaine trick? Yes, David Blaine trick? Or

930
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,200
Speaker 1: are you planning to disappear? Because there are people after

931
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: you and the version of you that you exist as

932
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: now needs to die because that's what fake and your

933
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: death ultimately would be the version of you that you

934
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 1: are no longer exists. So you know, how do you

935
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: deal with taxes? How do you deal with rule of law?

936
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 1: Government stuff? Uh? The truth of the matter is that

937
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,959
Speaker 1: it's very difficult and you are overwhelmingly likely to get

938
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: caught because after you disappear completely right, no cell phones,

939
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: no Gmail, no hanging around people that have them. You're

940
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 1: gonna have to have a like massive cash. You can't

941
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 1: use a bank account. You're gonna to slowly withdraw the

942
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 1: cash over time. Uh. You can never use a computer again.

943
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: You have to be very careful around the post. Um,

944
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,800
Speaker 1: And do you want to write a suicide note? Because

945
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: if you write a suicide note and your body is

946
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: not there, it's immediately a little suspicious. You know. As

947
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: for starting a new life, you have to be very careful.

948
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: You have to change everything, you have to do a

949
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 1: level of acting that's Daniel day Lewis, you know, and

950
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: you have to maintain all of these various lives every

951
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: single day, every single moment, you know, from when you

952
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: wake up to when you go to sleep. You're you're

953
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:31,959
Speaker 1: never gonna have a great job again because you're gonna

954
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: have to work under the table if you unless you

955
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: have enough cash for the rest of your life, which

956
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: you know in some of these situations is I guess likely.

957
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're gonna have to go to some place

958
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 1: where uh you're unknown and you've never been. You're gonna

959
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: have to have fake identification to get you there, right,

960
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: because a lot of the places where you could just

961
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: go without identification are very dangerous places, war zones, lawless

962
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: land and so if you want to go to the

963
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: kind of place where you would want to live after

964
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:08,919
Speaker 1: your pseudo side, then you're going to need like you know, um,

965
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: Bill Bellamy, that's my LV, my my student from MTV. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

966
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: I like different in person, I'll just be Bill Bellamy.

967
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: And go to Hong Kong or something, and they might

968
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: know Bill Bellamy there. They probably do give us a

969
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: little more thought. I should really think about this. It

970
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: goes back to the planning and the discipline. Um No,

971
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 1: this is usually the time in the show where Matt

972
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: and I would pause and and hear that noise. So

973
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: I've I've gotta through the last word to you. Yeah,

974
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 1: I mean, um, I guess I think we've we've hit

975
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: all the points for this topic. I think it's really

976
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 1: interesting stuff. I guess I would use this moment to just,

977
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: you know, say to the listeners, Um, I hope everyone's

978
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 1: really enjoying the show. I certainly enjoy working on it,

979
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: and it's been a lot of fun to be able

980
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: to kind of chime in here and there, and um,

981
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, like Ben and Matt always say, most of

982
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: the great ideas for the show come from you guys.

983
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 1: So I mean, please, please please keep that coming and

984
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: let me know if there's anything that you feel like

985
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: the moment of with Noel could be better used for.

986
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, as has been made clear on the

987
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: show a couple of times, I wear a lot of

988
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: hats here at how stuff works. I work on a

989
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: lot of shows. I do a lot of things kind

990
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 1: of in a mad dash multitasking kind of scenario. So

991
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: sometimes my moment with Noel is a bit b s E.

992
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just kind of talking about when my

993
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: car blowing up or what's on my mind, you know.

994
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: But I think it's fun to do um Ben and

995
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 1: Matt or my friends as you can tell. I mean,

996
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 1: I think we get along really well and we have

997
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: a good time just chatting. But if there's something that

998
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 1: you think, you know, you'd like to hear in that

999
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: segment um with a little advanced notice, I'm sure we

1000
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: could make it work. Yeah, yeah, let us let us know,

1001
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: because this is your show, ladies and gentlemen. And I

1002
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: know that we took kind of a scatter approach right

1003
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 1: to this, a buckshot approach because we looked into a

1004
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 1: little bit of some one oh one about various multiple celebrities.

1005
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: If you have another celebrity that you would like us

1006
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: to cover, then let us know where on Facebook and

1007
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: Twitter where conspiracy stuff. You can also check out our

1008
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: website and I you know, we've opened a dangerous store

1009
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 1: now NOL because what are people going to write in

1010
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 1: and say that they want us to do dramatic readings.

1011
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: I hope you guys liked my my h predictive text

1012
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 1: poem on the Washington DC. You know, I don't know.

1013
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 1: It's it's a fun opportunity, uh to kind of try

1014
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: new things. And like I said, I'm not always in

1015
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: a position where I can make the best use of it,

1016
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: I guess, is what I'm getting at. So I would

1017
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: love to hear from you guys what you think might

1018
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: be some fun things that we could use that spot for. Yeah,

1019
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: and we'll try it out and let's get weird with it.

1020
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 1: So we're going to uh skitaddle. We're gonna mosey on

1021
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: out of here, but we will not unless you have

1022
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: different weekend plans. We're not gonna fake our deaths. Will

1023
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: be back the same BAT time, same BAT channel next

1024
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 1: week and in the meantime, if you have suggestions for

1025
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 1: a future show, if you have feedback for something else

1026
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 1: that you would like to hear, or if you just

1027
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 1: want to send us a random hello, we'd love to

1028
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: hear from you. Our email address is conspiracy at how

1029
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. For more on this topic, another

1030
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 1: unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube, dot com slash conspiracy Stuff. You

1031
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: can also get in touch on Twitter at the handle

1032
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 1: at conspiracy stuff.