WEBVTT - CRISPR and the Genetic Astronaut 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.199 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuffworks 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:14.680 dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.320 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick and 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:19.800 Robert Today. I know you wanted to talk about something 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.520 that you saw at a panel at the World Science Festival, 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.280 and this topic was something that I hadn't really thought 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:30.080 all that much about. Maybe maybe it'd come up a 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:35.000 little bit before. But it's uh, GMOs and not GMO 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:41.120 wheat or GMO corn or GMO mosquitoes, but GMO astronauts. 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.080 That's right. This Uh the panel that I ended up attending. 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:48.040 This was one of their salons at World Science Festival, 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:51.280 Evolution Beyond Earth. It was. It was one of the 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:55.080 highlights for me because it basically revolved around a discussion 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:59.680 of genetically modifying humans for space exploration. And this is 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:01.400 a great topic because it touches on some stuff that 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:06.160 we've covered before. The idea of augmenting humans for space, 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.080 uh is an idea that goes back decades, and we'll 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:12.679 get into that. And it also touches upon just genetically 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:17.280 modifying organisms in general and the crisper technology, something that 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:19.920 we've been we've wanted to talk about on the show 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.440 for years, and I feel like this gives us a 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:28.640 proper science fiction flavored excuse to discuss it within uh, 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:31.720 you know, a particular set of parameters. Okay, So today 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:33.759 we are going to be doing our best to try 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.679 to give a simple, straightforward explanation what the Crisper gene 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.000 editing process is and what it does, but also to 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:43.479 uh explore a little bit of what they talk about 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:47.680 in this panel about genetically modifying astronauts and ask should 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.720 we do it? Should we make our spacemen and space 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:55.400 women of tomorrow creatures of the gene scalpel? Well, if 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.920 you phrase it like that, um, I mean, really it 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.160 seems like a reasonable proper position, doesn't it. I mean, 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:05.000 when you consider I want you could consider the options. Okay, 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:09.280 you could potentially terraform another world. You could you could 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:14.080 strain to bring a particular human environment into space. You know, basically, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.880 can a canned version of Earth throw it into space 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.880 and let people live in that? Or perhaps you can 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.720 just change what people are. You can make you can 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:28.400 either adapt people to existing environments beyond Earth or tweak 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.280 them in such a way that you're not having to 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:35.760 bend over backwards to create an environment for them beyond Earth. 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:39.160 And this is this is an idea that is resonated 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.600 in science fiction for some time. A few different examples 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:44.359 come to my mind. I don't I don't know if 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.600 if any of these, uh, we're knocking around your head 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.120 as well, or if you have your own examples to 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.360 to discuss. No, let's hit yours man, all right? Well? Um. 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.919 The first is a novel by a Clifford D. Simic, 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:01.680 who is a kind of a legend and science fiction circles. 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.560 He was very prolific. He is probably best known for 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.440 a collection of short stories, but he wrote titled City. 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.600 One of the tales I think involves um speaking dogs, 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:16.320 like a race of intelligence talking dogs that wait. Telepathic 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:18.560 dogs are just like saying words out loud with their 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:23.240 dog mouths. I think they're they're speaking, but I'm not certainly, 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.840 because there's not one that I've read. One book of 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.720 his that I have read though, is N sevens The 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:34.120 Werewolf Principle. And this is this is a great book 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.400 in a number of ways because essentially, I I don't 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.600 know the origin of it, but it feels like someone said, hey, Clifford, 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:43.480 can you write a space werewolf book for us. I 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.480 think that's something people would like to read, and who wouldn't. 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.440 But he does a fantastic spin on it that is 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:57.200 just so thoroughly, so thoroughly late sixties, early seventies, you know, 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.720 science fiction. Uh So, it's a wonderfully weird novel in 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.240 which a human space traveler is augmented to rapidly adapt 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.600 to alien worlds. He's sort of an android designed to 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:12.520 scan and mimic alien species for research purposes. He's one 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:16.120 of only two constructed, and he's sent out to alien worlds, 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.000 uh two hundred years ago. He visits a number of 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.719 these planets and then he returns to Earth and begins 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:27.120 to experience transformations into these into certain certain monstrous forms. 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:31.560 He's having an identity crisis. And in the background to 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.960 all this, the the the the earth setting that all 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.360 of this has taken place on Invote includes flying houses 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.679 because humans have these, you know, these space age houses. 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:43.120 Why I stay in one spot when you can have 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.040 your house moved from spot to spot. And also the 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:50.080 woods are teeming with brownies or maybe not teaming. Teeming 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.400 is not the right word. But we've reached the point 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.000 as a human species to realize. Oh yeah, most of 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.840 the mythical creatures that we taught, we spoke about and 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:01.200 sing songs about, they weren't real. Up for brownies, brownies 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:05.039 were real. Are brownies like fairies? Yeah, they're just like 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.719 a race of fairies and they live in the Pope Woods. 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.360 And I don't I don't recall to what extent they 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:14.279 actually play a part in the plot of the werewolf principle, 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.960 but just that they're there because the world its own 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:20.400 unique stent. You know. I'm glad to hear that there's 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.200 a space werewolf novel because that's something that there could 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.640 stand to be plenty of. I'm waiting for the Space 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.760 Mummy novel. When does that happen? Well, there was that film. 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.000 I forget the title of it or the titles, but 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.719 it was. It was featured on Mystery Sentence. Theater three 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:41.600 thousand had an ancient astronauts money is like, was it 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.680 the Frankenstein and the Aztec Mummy? No, but maybe that 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:49.400 was also space Mummy. But this one was like visitor 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.000 from another world or something to that effect. No, I 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.560 don't know what that is. Well, anyway, I will agree 0:05:55.600 --> 0:06:00.320 that it is an under utilized sub genre, the space mummy. 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.400 That's what we should be going back to. Ye, So 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:04.839 if you're in the middle of writing a space vampire novel, 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.440 give it up, just put it on hold. Give us 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.000 space mummies first. Yeah, and then the sequel can be 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:13.679 space mummies versus space werewolves. Now, another sci fi property 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.239 that comes to mind is a two thousand nine film 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.160 that I know some people did not enjoy, but I 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.960 actually really enjoyed this one to two thousand nine Pandorum 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.360 like some things about it. Yeah, I I embraced the 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.560 mixed review. I embraced all of it. This is the 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.719 one that had Dennis Quaid in it. It did. It's yeah, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:36.080 I will say it's not one of Dennis Quaids finer performances. 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.200 It's no enemy mine. But the plot, the look at 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.000 the film I thought was great and the plot was 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.280 kind of cool. They so they're a colonists aboard and 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:49.680 interstellar arc named the Elysium, and the colonists are augmented 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:53.440 to rapidly adapt to the environment of their destination exoplanet, 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:58.000 which is a world called Tennis. But of course, something 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.280 goes horribly wrong and a portion of the crew wakes 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.800 up early, they go a little crazy, and their descendants 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.920 rapidly adapt to the environment of the spaceship and they 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:12.080 become the essentially become a race of cannibal mutant trog lafuna. 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.760 It's kind of like the descent in a spaceship instead 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.400 of a cave. Yes, yeah, I think that's a that's 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:23.160 a fair assessment, and it also reminds me a bit 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.280 of a movie that came out of along the same time, uh, 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.080 known as eden Log. Did you happen to see this? No? 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.160 I don't think so. Eden Log is is hauntingly familiar. 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:36.960 It's like a more artistic French reflection of the same film. 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.960 So I would say, if if anyone out there enjoyed Pandoram, 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.600 go see eden Log, or if you enjoyed parts of Pandorum, 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.120 go watch eden Log. You probably won't understand what's happening. 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:49.880 But when has that ever gotten in the in the 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.280 way of a good good time in a science fiction movie. 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.720 I should also point out that in Dan Simon's Hyperion novels, 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.480 you have the the Alsters, humans who have adapted to 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:05.080 life in space, granted suited and within ships, but still 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:07.800 uh that they've been able to adapt due to extensive 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:12.200 genetic self manipulation. And then the Expanse series based on 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.600 the books by James S. A. Corey. You see belters 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:21.560 who are who have adapted to to life on ships 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:24.640 on the sort of the the outer limits of human 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.280 habitation in the Solar System. Yeah, this is probably the 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.680 example I would have mentioned if I was going to 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.760 bring up genetic adaptation to space conditions, because obviously living 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:37.520 in lower gravity environments, this would be problematic for humans 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.479 who have been tailored by billions of years of evolution 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:44.160 to survive on a Earth gravity world. If you're out 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.640 in a small gravity world, you just probably need a 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:51.640 different body, right, And so these differently adapted creatures. There's 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:55.760 this one scene I remember in the Expanse of gravity 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.960 torture Belters being brought back to Earth and tortured with 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:03.000 Earth gravity. Yeah, just the the the the act of 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:07.120 of living on a higher gravity world is torment to them. 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.440 And that kind of underlines the reverse challenges of taking 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.440 your You're taking a creature and expecting it to live 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.480 in an environment that is tortured to them, that they 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.000 that they just simply have not evolved to cope with. 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.880 So the panel that I that I attended. It was 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:27.920 moderated by neuroscientist Stuart fire Stain, and the panelists were 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:32.800 geneticist Chris Mason geneticist Ting Wu who as a sort 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.520 of trivia on Teing Woo. She is the wife of 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:41.800 noted geneticist Georgia m. Church and also astrobiologist Caleb Sharf. 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.880 So we we don't even have to consider the challenges 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.839 of an alien planet to consider the the benefits or 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:53.440 the potential benefits of of altering humans for space travel. 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.560 In fact, you might say space travel itself is the 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.920 harshest possible environment, maybe even more so than another plan 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:01.880 And I guess depending on what the planet is like, 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.280 because on another planet you'd at least expect to have 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:08.320 some gravity, right, or you can only assume there will 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:12.040 be like some level of robust radiation shielding, either in 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.040 the form of a of a naturally occurring magnetosphere or 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:20.959 like hopefully a substantial underground base or whatever. Your your 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.679 off world colonies gonna consist of an atmosphere and an 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:27.280 atmosphere which is also gonna entail a certain amount of 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:31.839 radiation shielding. But your your your tin can, your your 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.880 generation ship sailing across the space. Sailing across interstellar space, 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:39.240 even that's going to be a different proposition. Unless you're 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.360 going to a comet or small asteroid. The ship is 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:46.320 probably a harsher environment and and uh and probably a 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:50.280 long journey. Oh. An important point that that that the 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:54.320 moderator Stewart Finstein made in this is that humans have 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.679 proven incredibly adaptable here on Earth. And I think this 0:10:57.800 --> 0:10:59.680 leads into this idea that we should be able to 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:03.120 survive anywhere. Right we live all over the world. We can, 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:08.160 we can sustain ourselves in pretty harsh conditions. And yet, um, 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.640 even though we've become a global species, even though we're 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:16.040 considering this leap uh into becoming an interplanetary species species, 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:20.320 we entertain quote a migration to a place that has 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:24.360 never impacted our evolution in any way. That's a really 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:28.440 good point. I mean, yeah, there's there's just been zero 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:33.760 input whatsoever of for example, zero you know, microgravity conditions 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.600 on on the evolution of any life form on Earth, 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.480 no precedent whatsoever. So on the other hand, so on 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:43.600 one hand, you can say that place is not for us, 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.000 the space is horrible, why would you want to go there? 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.320 But there are plenty that argue that, hey, we need 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:53.160 to figure it out, that that life beyond Earth is 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.000 vital to the long term survival of the human race. 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.520 That if we're going to continue to exist long term, 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.160 we have to exist places other than this world. Right. 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.760 We can debate what the number is, but the natural 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.320 ecology of Earth, or even the augmented ecology of Earth, 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.679 does have some kind of natural carrying capacity. There's some 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.280 maximum number of humans that it can sustain in terms 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:23.640 of giving them clean air to breathe, freshwater, food space 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.200 to live, all those kinds of things. At some point, 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.760 we we will run out of that if we keep multiplying, 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.480 and of course there are there there are hard stops 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.840 for just the habitability of Earth in the long term 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:37.960 future as well. Yeah, at some point the sun will 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.440 sort of increase in size. That's not so great for 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.480 the surface dwellers of the Earth. Yeah, and uh, And 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.440 then there's there's another argument to be made here, and 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:51.319 this is the one that that the astrobiologist Caleb sharfmin 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.640 and the talk he said, he said a human exploration 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.679 remains the best option for exploration, that robots can only 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.120 get us so far, and that there's and the this 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.160 you kind of get into a more I guess, philosophical 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.720 argument for exploration when you're saying that, yeah, you can 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:10.000 send robots, that you can send probes out. Uh, we can. 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.880 We can move a joystick and then move a robotic 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.839 arm in another world with some degree of lag time. 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:20.320 But are we losing something? Is there something? Is there 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:25.040 something lost in not having actual human exploration. Sure you 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.720 can make that argument. I mean, I think I'm of 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.720 the opinion that robotic exploration can get us a lot 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.880 of what we need. We can get some good research results, 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.640 we can reduce the risk of human death and injury, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.920 and reduce the risk of cross contamination of environments and 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:44.360 and all that kind of stuff. You can do a 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.160 lot with robots. But there are some things that humans 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.319 are sort of unique providers of. One is on site ingenuity. 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.320 Robots at this point do not have the kind of 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:59.640 intelligence and ingenuity and creativity that a human astronaut would have. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.760 If you were trying to trying to not just say, 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.760 do a few specific tests on the surface of Mars, 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:10.400 but to create a robust research environment on a faraway 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.400 planet that makes sense. But then also on top of that, 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.400 humans have inspiration potential for the rest of humanity in 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.320 a way that robots don't. Not to say it's not 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:25.160 inspiring to see the Curiosity rover, for example, moving around 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.640 on the surface of Mars. But you can't deny there 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.280 will be a very different kind of effect when there 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.520 are human feet on the soil of Marsh, no doubt. 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.680 And so we end up and then asking the question, well, 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:39.080 how is this going to happen? How are we going 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.840 to pull it off? And indeed, what changes might we 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.160 want or need to make to the human body to 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:50.600 enable those feet uh, those footsteps to actually take place 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.760 on Mars. Well, I know one answer is we gotta 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.520 got to replace these hands with crab claws. When are 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.840 we finally going to get our clause? Robert, Well, I 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.280 mean maybe there's an our baby steps though, right, Because 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.480 if our knowledge of GMOs has thought us anything thus far, 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.880 is that people are are going to be resistant to 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.320 the idea of like rapid change. Right, They're not gonna 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.880 go for crab clouds right off the bat, but maybe 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:20.520 more subtle changes at any rate. Genesis Chris Mason says 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.840 that we need to consider a five hundred year lab plan. 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.320 So a multi stage plan to advance our understanding of 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.080 the human genome, figure out exactly what we can tweak 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.920 where we need to tweak it to adapt humans to 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:37.440 better Uh. For instance, a thrive on a trip to 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:42.360 Mars and then the subsequent stay on Mars, a subsequent 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.280 colonization of Mars. So five dred years that's a pretty 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.240 slow ascent, and I can see some benefits to that. 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:50.640 Number one, that gives the technology plenty of time to 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:52.640 get there. But number two, it's what you were talking 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.440 about with baby steps and acclimatizing people. Yeah, it would 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.760 give people in general a chance to say, okay, this 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.360 is fine, you know, because each generation the changes would 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.720 be small. Yeah, so hopefully by the time crab class 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.360 came along, everyone would be cool with it. And it's 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.480 but it's also it's easy to say, well this that 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:15.480 this sucks is an option because five years we're not 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.160 going to be around to to see the fruits of 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:21.120 that labor. But it also really plays to humanity strengths 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:27.920 because no matter granted, we we often suffer for our 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:32.960 ability to not um not calculate things long term, but 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:34.760 yet at the at the same time, we do have 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.640 a unique ability to plan beyond our own lifespan. So 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.320 it's it's kind of a it's a special magic that 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.760 that other organisms do not have. Even if it's a 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:50.480 one that we are, we're not completely competent with ourselves. Yet, 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:52.520 even if we're not great at it, we can at 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.640 least do it. And as they say in the in 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.520 the Space Program, doing a bad job is better than 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.840 not doing it at all. They don't say that, do they. 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.000 I'm not sure that that might have been included on 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:09.520 the voyager plates and not not positive all right, So 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:14.560 before we consider the present solutions, before we consider genetically 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.800 modifying humans for space, I think it's a it's a 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:21.960 good opportunity to look back and see what two individuals, 0:17:22.280 --> 0:17:26.680 Nathan Klein and Manfred Klein's said in their their Cyborg 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.280 paper back in nineteen sixty. Sure, because hey, if you 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.760 want to modify human beings to explore space, you don't 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.240 have to go straight to their genes. You could instead 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.480 basically give them a few mods right now. Yeah, And 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.760 that's that's basically what what these authors were arguing back 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.639 in nineteen sixty. They presented a grocery list of ways 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:51.119 that technology and medical science could retrofit the human body 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.960 for the star hopping lifestyle. And this is where the 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.200 concept of the cyborg came from, was this paper in 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.480 nineteen sixty by the client, by the clients, by client 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:03.760 and clients. Yes, one with a C, one with a K, 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.600 one one with an ass on the end, one without it. 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:10.400 So it always trips me up as well. But yeah, 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.520 they made this argument early on to say, hey, you 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:13.840 want to put people in space, you need to be 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:17.440 willing to change people. And we were not willing to 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.080 change people. Or we can look at it two different ways. 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:21.760 Either we were not willing to do it, or we 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.679 did not really have the the the scientific advances to 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.840 make those changes, at least not the more radical changes 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.760 that are proposed in this paper. This is a very 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.000 if you if you go read this paper, the tone 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.800 of it is incredibly gung ho, you know what I mean. 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.719 It's just so like, well, let's get her done, come on, 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.600 changing humans for space. Yeah, yeah, it is very gung ho. Uh. 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:45.679 I'm gonna read a quick quote from it here to 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:49.720 give you a taste. Solving the many technical problems involved 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.080 in man's space flight by adapting man to his environment 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.679 rather than vice versa will not only make a significant 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.840 step forward in man's scientific progress, but may well for 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.359 vide a new and larger dimension for man's spirit as well. 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.639 So they're like, let's not just change ourselves for space, 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.479 let's change ourselves for the principle of it. Yeah, it's 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:12.120 kind of It kind of gets back to the idea 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.040 that if you change the body, you change the soul. 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.560 When they're saying, hey, we're gonna in big in the body, 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.600 We're gonna in big in that human soul. Uh, you're 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:25.840 gonna it's a perfectly cromulent idea. So their recommendations were 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:30.080 all very much in the vein of retrofits. So we're 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.040 gonna get more into the idea of of sort of 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.400 you know, front end changes via genetic modification. But they 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.520 were all about taking the creature that is evolved for 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:40.920 this world and adapting it to survive in the other 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.440 or you know, in the space between worlds. Uh. That 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.439 they made a point of not altering the heredity of 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.439 the human being. Interesting, So here's another quote. In the past, 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:54.760 evolution brought about the altering of bodily functions to suit 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:58.960 different environments. Starting as of now, it will be possible 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:02.920 to achieve this to some degree without alteration of heredity 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:09.240 by suitable biochemical, physiological, and electronic modification modifications of man's 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:13.960 existing modus vivindi. Okay, so the way of getting along 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.760 in life previously we would make an adaptation to our 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:20.840 genes in a way that could be transferred from adult 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.440 to child. So it's a it's an indirect modification. It's 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:27.560 not the Slamarckian idea of like, well, I had to 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:30.719 reach up to a tree, so my arms got longer 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.440 and my kids had longer arms. It's no, you're born 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.560 with longer arms by accident you can reach the tree 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.919 better unless your kids get that as well. That's, you know, 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:44.520 the the accepted version of heredity. Now, of course, epigenetics 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.680 and lots of weird things have sort of modified that 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:51.000 slightly over the years, but still we basically are operating 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.040 on a germline heredity model for for where our body 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:57.840 traits come from. And they're saying, no, we don't have 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.200 to do that anymore. We can change people who were 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.800 alive right now. They don't have to get these changes 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:08.280 from their their ancestors, and the changes are rather fascinating. 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:10.720 The ones that they proposed. So they make suggestions in 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:15.040 including the use of hypothermic hibernation for extended space travel, 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:21.480 lowering body temperature, and administering various drugs through an automatic 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:27.760 osmotic pump of course to alter enzyme levels, low gravity tolerance, etcetera. 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:30.000 There's also the the idea that you could use a 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:33.919 solar or nuclear powered inverse fuel cell in place of 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:37.439 a lung. Isn't that just beautiful? A nuclear powered fuel 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:42.080 cell for respiration. And then this is probably my favorite 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:47.639 passage from the paper, fluid intake and output fluid balance 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:51.280 in the astronaut could be largely maintained via a shunt 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:57.320 from the uritors to the venous circulation after removal or 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:05.160 conversion of noxious substances. Sterilization of the gastro intestinal tract 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:10.280 plus intravenous or direct intra gastric feeding could reduce fecal 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:15.320 elimination to a minimum. And even this might be reutilized. 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:19.120 This is ambition, This ambition if I've ever seen it, Yeah, 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:23.560 this is the basic cybernetic replumbing of the human body. Yeah, 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.720 they're looking at what the human body does. They're saying, like, look, 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:30.440 pooping and peaking so much waste here. We gotta find 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:33.680 a way to reclaim all of this waste from poop 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:38.080 and p This enthusiasm reminds me of passage in Mary 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:42.040 Roach's excellent book Packing from Mars, But she talks about 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:47.840 the clash of culture between the NASA scientists and the 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:52.439 astronauts themselves, especially early on when the astronauts themselves tended 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:56.680 to be essentially cowboys. They were they were the they 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.400 were the test pilots. They were that they were very 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:02.880 man only men of the of of the sixties. Well, 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.720 I think actually the astronauts may have better embodied this, uh, 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:09.960 this client inclined, gung ho attitude of like, yeah, let's 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:12.719 do whatever, get her done. Well to a point, because, 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:15.760 as Roach points out, you have scientists who would say, 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:19.439 all right, uh to and to enable this kind of 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:21.920 space journey, that needs to be a certain amount of 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:25.600 like repurposing fecal matter, We need to we need to 0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:28.359 figure out how to make the interior of the spaceship 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:32.680 out of consumable products, that sort of thing. And and 0:23:32.760 --> 0:23:34.560 she said that there there would there would come a 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:37.840 point where the at the astronauts that they caught wind 0:23:37.880 --> 0:23:39.639