1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,199 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuffworks 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick and 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: Robert Today. I know you wanted to talk about something 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: that you saw at a panel at the World Science Festival, 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: and this topic was something that I hadn't really thought 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: all that much about. Maybe maybe it'd come up a 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: little bit before. But it's uh, GMOs and not GMO 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: wheat or GMO corn or GMO mosquitoes, but GMO astronauts. 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: That's right. This Uh the panel that I ended up attending. 11 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: This was one of their salons at World Science Festival, 12 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: Evolution Beyond Earth. It was. It was one of the 13 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: highlights for me because it basically revolved around a discussion 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: of genetically modifying humans for space exploration. And this is 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: a great topic because it touches on some stuff that 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: we've covered before. The idea of augmenting humans for space, 17 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: uh is an idea that goes back decades, and we'll 18 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: get into that. And it also touches upon just genetically 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: modifying organisms in general and the crisper technology, something that 20 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: we've been we've wanted to talk about on the show 21 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: for years, and I feel like this gives us a 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: proper science fiction flavored excuse to discuss it within uh, 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: you know, a particular set of parameters. Okay, So today 24 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: we are going to be doing our best to try 25 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: to give a simple, straightforward explanation what the Crisper gene 26 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: editing process is and what it does, but also to 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 1: uh explore a little bit of what they talk about 28 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: in this panel about genetically modifying astronauts and ask should 29 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: we do it? Should we make our spacemen and space 30 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: women of tomorrow creatures of the gene scalpel? Well, if 31 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: you phrase it like that, um, I mean, really it 32 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: seems like a reasonable proper position, doesn't it. I mean, 33 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: when you consider I want you could consider the options. Okay, 34 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: you could potentially terraform another world. You could you could 35 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: strain to bring a particular human environment into space. You know, basically, 36 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: can a canned version of Earth throw it into space 37 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: and let people live in that? Or perhaps you can 38 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: just change what people are. You can make you can 39 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: either adapt people to existing environments beyond Earth or tweak 40 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: them in such a way that you're not having to 41 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: bend over backwards to create an environment for them beyond Earth. 42 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: And this is this is an idea that is resonated 43 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: in science fiction for some time. A few different examples 44 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: come to my mind. I don't I don't know if 45 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: if any of these, uh, we're knocking around your head 46 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: as well, or if you have your own examples to 47 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: to discuss. No, let's hit yours man, all right? Well? Um. 48 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: The first is a novel by a Clifford D. Simic, 49 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: who is a kind of a legend and science fiction circles. 50 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: He was very prolific. He is probably best known for 51 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: a collection of short stories, but he wrote titled City. 52 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: One of the tales I think involves um speaking dogs, 53 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: like a race of intelligence talking dogs that wait. Telepathic 54 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: dogs are just like saying words out loud with their 55 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: dog mouths. I think they're they're speaking, but I'm not certainly, 56 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: because there's not one that I've read. One book of 57 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: his that I have read though, is N sevens The 58 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: Werewolf Principle. And this is this is a great book 59 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: in a number of ways because essentially, I I don't 60 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: know the origin of it, but it feels like someone said, hey, Clifford, 61 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: can you write a space werewolf book for us. I 62 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: think that's something people would like to read, and who wouldn't. 63 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: But he does a fantastic spin on it that is 64 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: just so thoroughly, so thoroughly late sixties, early seventies, you know, 65 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: science fiction. Uh So, it's a wonderfully weird novel in 66 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: which a human space traveler is augmented to rapidly adapt 67 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: to alien worlds. He's sort of an android designed to 68 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: scan and mimic alien species for research purposes. He's one 69 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: of only two constructed, and he's sent out to alien worlds, 70 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: uh two hundred years ago. He visits a number of 71 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: these planets and then he returns to Earth and begins 72 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: to experience transformations into these into certain certain monstrous forms. 73 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: He's having an identity crisis. And in the background to 74 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: all this, the the the the earth setting that all 75 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 1: of this has taken place on Invote includes flying houses 76 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,679 Speaker 1: because humans have these, you know, these space age houses. 77 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: Why I stay in one spot when you can have 78 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: your house moved from spot to spot. And also the 79 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: woods are teeming with brownies or maybe not teaming. Teeming 80 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: is not the right word. But we've reached the point 81 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: as a human species to realize. Oh yeah, most of 82 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: the mythical creatures that we taught, we spoke about and 83 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: sing songs about, they weren't real. Up for brownies, brownies 84 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 1: were real. Are brownies like fairies? Yeah, they're just like 85 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: a race of fairies and they live in the Pope Woods. 86 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: And I don't I don't recall to what extent they 87 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: actually play a part in the plot of the werewolf principle, 88 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: but just that they're there because the world its own 89 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: unique stent. You know. I'm glad to hear that there's 90 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: a space werewolf novel because that's something that there could 91 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: stand to be plenty of. I'm waiting for the Space 92 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: Mummy novel. When does that happen? Well, there was that film. 93 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: I forget the title of it or the titles, but 94 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: it was. It was featured on Mystery Sentence. Theater three 95 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: thousand had an ancient astronauts money is like, was it 96 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: the Frankenstein and the Aztec Mummy? No, but maybe that 97 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: was also space Mummy. But this one was like visitor 98 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: from another world or something to that effect. No, I 99 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: don't know what that is. Well, anyway, I will agree 100 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: that it is an under utilized sub genre, the space mummy. 101 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: That's what we should be going back to. Ye, So 102 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: if you're in the middle of writing a space vampire novel, 103 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: give it up, just put it on hold. Give us 104 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: space mummies first. Yeah, and then the sequel can be 105 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 1: space mummies versus space werewolves. Now, another sci fi property 106 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 1: that comes to mind is a two thousand nine film 107 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: that I know some people did not enjoy, but I 108 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: actually really enjoyed this one to two thousand nine Pandorum 109 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: like some things about it. Yeah, I I embraced the 110 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: mixed review. I embraced all of it. This is the 111 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: one that had Dennis Quaid in it. It did. It's yeah, 112 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: I will say it's not one of Dennis Quaids finer performances. 113 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: It's no enemy mine. But the plot, the look at 114 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: the film I thought was great and the plot was 115 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: kind of cool. They so they're a colonists aboard and 116 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: interstellar arc named the Elysium, and the colonists are augmented 117 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: to rapidly adapt to the environment of their destination exoplanet, 118 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: which is a world called Tennis. But of course, something 119 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: goes horribly wrong and a portion of the crew wakes 120 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: up early, they go a little crazy, and their descendants 121 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: rapidly adapt to the environment of the spaceship and they 122 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: become the essentially become a race of cannibal mutant trog lafuna. 123 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: It's kind of like the descent in a spaceship instead 124 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: of a cave. Yes, yeah, I think that's a that's 125 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: a fair assessment, and it also reminds me a bit 126 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: of a movie that came out of along the same time, uh, 127 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: known as eden Log. Did you happen to see this? No? 128 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Eden Log is is hauntingly familiar. 129 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: It's like a more artistic French reflection of the same film. 130 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: So I would say, if if anyone out there enjoyed Pandoram, 131 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: go see eden Log, or if you enjoyed parts of Pandorum, 132 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: go watch eden Log. You probably won't understand what's happening. 133 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: But when has that ever gotten in the in the 134 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: way of a good good time in a science fiction movie. 135 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: I should also point out that in Dan Simon's Hyperion novels, 136 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: you have the the Alsters, humans who have adapted to 137 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: life in space, granted suited and within ships, but still 138 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: uh that they've been able to adapt due to extensive 139 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: genetic self manipulation. And then the Expanse series based on 140 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: the books by James S. A. Corey. You see belters 141 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: who are who have adapted to to life on ships 142 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: on the sort of the the outer limits of human 143 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: habitation in the Solar System. Yeah, this is probably the 144 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: example I would have mentioned if I was going to 145 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: bring up genetic adaptation to space conditions, because obviously living 146 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: in lower gravity environments, this would be problematic for humans 147 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,479 Speaker 1: who have been tailored by billions of years of evolution 148 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: to survive on a Earth gravity world. If you're out 149 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: in a small gravity world, you just probably need a 150 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: different body, right, And so these differently adapted creatures. There's 151 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: this one scene I remember in the Expanse of gravity 152 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: torture Belters being brought back to Earth and tortured with 153 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: Earth gravity. Yeah, just the the the the act of 154 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: of living on a higher gravity world is torment to them. 155 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: And that kind of underlines the reverse challenges of taking 156 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: your You're taking a creature and expecting it to live 157 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: in an environment that is tortured to them, that they 158 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: that they just simply have not evolved to cope with. 159 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: So the panel that I that I attended. It was 160 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: moderated by neuroscientist Stuart fire Stain, and the panelists were 161 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: geneticist Chris Mason geneticist Ting Wu who as a sort 162 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: of trivia on Teing Woo. She is the wife of 163 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: noted geneticist Georgia m. Church and also astrobiologist Caleb Sharf. 164 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: So we we don't even have to consider the challenges 165 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: of an alien planet to consider the the benefits or 166 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: the potential benefits of of altering humans for space travel. 167 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: In fact, you might say space travel itself is the 168 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: harshest possible environment, maybe even more so than another plan 169 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: And I guess depending on what the planet is like, 170 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: because on another planet you'd at least expect to have 171 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: some gravity, right, or you can only assume there will 172 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: be like some level of robust radiation shielding, either in 173 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: the form of a of a naturally occurring magnetosphere or 174 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 1: like hopefully a substantial underground base or whatever. Your your 175 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: off world colonies gonna consist of an atmosphere and an 176 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: atmosphere which is also gonna entail a certain amount of 177 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 1: radiation shielding. But your your your tin can, your your 178 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: generation ship sailing across the space. Sailing across interstellar space, 179 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: even that's going to be a different proposition. Unless you're 180 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: going to a comet or small asteroid. The ship is 181 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: probably a harsher environment and and uh and probably a 182 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: long journey. Oh. An important point that that that the 183 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: moderator Stewart Finstein made in this is that humans have 184 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 1: proven incredibly adaptable here on Earth. And I think this 185 00:10:57,800 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: leads into this idea that we should be able to 186 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: survive anywhere. Right we live all over the world. We can, 187 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: we can sustain ourselves in pretty harsh conditions. And yet, um, 188 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: even though we've become a global species, even though we're 189 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: considering this leap uh into becoming an interplanetary species species, 190 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: we entertain quote a migration to a place that has 191 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: never impacted our evolution in any way. That's a really 192 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: good point. I mean, yeah, there's there's just been zero 193 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: input whatsoever of for example, zero you know, microgravity conditions 194 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: on on the evolution of any life form on Earth, 195 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: no precedent whatsoever. So on the other hand, so on 196 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: one hand, you can say that place is not for us, 197 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: the space is horrible, why would you want to go there? 198 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: But there are plenty that argue that, hey, we need 199 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: to figure it out, that that life beyond Earth is 200 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: vital to the long term survival of the human race. 201 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: That if we're going to continue to exist long term, 202 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: we have to exist places other than this world. Right. 203 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: We can debate what the number is, but the natural 204 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: ecology of Earth, or even the augmented ecology of Earth, 205 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: does have some kind of natural carrying capacity. There's some 206 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: maximum number of humans that it can sustain in terms 207 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: of giving them clean air to breathe, freshwater, food space 208 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: to live, all those kinds of things. At some point, 209 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: we we will run out of that if we keep multiplying, 210 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: and of course there are there there are hard stops 211 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: for just the habitability of Earth in the long term 212 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: future as well. Yeah, at some point the sun will 213 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: sort of increase in size. That's not so great for 214 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: the surface dwellers of the Earth. Yeah, and uh, And 215 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: then there's there's another argument to be made here, and 216 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 1: this is the one that that the astrobiologist Caleb sharfmin 217 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: and the talk he said, he said a human exploration 218 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: remains the best option for exploration, that robots can only 219 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: get us so far, and that there's and the this 220 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: you kind of get into a more I guess, philosophical 221 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: argument for exploration when you're saying that, yeah, you can 222 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: send robots, that you can send probes out. Uh, we can. 223 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: We can move a joystick and then move a robotic 224 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 1: arm in another world with some degree of lag time. 225 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: But are we losing something? Is there something? Is there 226 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: something lost in not having actual human exploration. Sure you 227 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: can make that argument. I mean, I think I'm of 228 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: the opinion that robotic exploration can get us a lot 229 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: of what we need. We can get some good research results, 230 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: we can reduce the risk of human death and injury, 231 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: and reduce the risk of cross contamination of environments and 232 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. You can do a 233 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: lot with robots. But there are some things that humans 234 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: are sort of unique providers of. One is on site ingenuity. 235 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: Robots at this point do not have the kind of 236 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: intelligence and ingenuity and creativity that a human astronaut would have. 237 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: If you were trying to trying to not just say, 238 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: do a few specific tests on the surface of Mars, 239 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: but to create a robust research environment on a faraway 240 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: planet that makes sense. But then also on top of that, 241 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: humans have inspiration potential for the rest of humanity in 242 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: a way that robots don't. Not to say it's not 243 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: inspiring to see the Curiosity rover, for example, moving around 244 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: on the surface of Mars. But you can't deny there 245 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: will be a very different kind of effect when there 246 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: are human feet on the soil of Marsh, no doubt. 247 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: And so we end up and then asking the question, well, 248 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: how is this going to happen? How are we going 249 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: to pull it off? And indeed, what changes might we 250 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: want or need to make to the human body to 251 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: enable those feet uh, those footsteps to actually take place 252 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: on Mars. Well, I know one answer is we gotta 253 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: got to replace these hands with crab claws. When are 254 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: we finally going to get our clause? Robert, Well, I 255 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: mean maybe there's an our baby steps though, right, Because 256 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: if our knowledge of GMOs has thought us anything thus far, 257 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: is that people are are going to be resistant to 258 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: the idea of like rapid change. Right, They're not gonna 259 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: go for crab clouds right off the bat, but maybe 260 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: more subtle changes at any rate. Genesis Chris Mason says 261 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: that we need to consider a five hundred year lab plan. 262 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: So a multi stage plan to advance our understanding of 263 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: the human genome, figure out exactly what we can tweak 264 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: where we need to tweak it to adapt humans to 265 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: better Uh. For instance, a thrive on a trip to 266 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: Mars and then the subsequent stay on Mars, a subsequent 267 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: colonization of Mars. So five dred years that's a pretty 268 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: slow ascent, and I can see some benefits to that. 269 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: Number one, that gives the technology plenty of time to 270 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: get there. But number two, it's what you were talking 271 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: about with baby steps and acclimatizing people. Yeah, it would 272 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: give people in general a chance to say, okay, this 273 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: is fine, you know, because each generation the changes would 274 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: be small. Yeah, so hopefully by the time crab class 275 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: came along, everyone would be cool with it. And it's 276 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: but it's also it's easy to say, well this that 277 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: this sucks is an option because five years we're not 278 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: going to be around to to see the fruits of 279 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: that labor. But it also really plays to humanity strengths 280 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: because no matter granted, we we often suffer for our 281 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: ability to not um not calculate things long term, but 282 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: yet at the at the same time, we do have 283 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: a unique ability to plan beyond our own lifespan. So 284 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a it's a special magic that 285 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: that other organisms do not have. Even if it's a 286 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: one that we are, we're not completely competent with ourselves. Yet, 287 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: even if we're not great at it, we can at 288 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: least do it. And as they say in the in 289 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: the Space Program, doing a bad job is better than 290 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: not doing it at all. They don't say that, do they. 291 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that that might have been included on 292 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: the voyager plates and not not positive all right, So 293 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: before we consider the present solutions, before we consider genetically 294 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: modifying humans for space, I think it's a it's a 295 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: good opportunity to look back and see what two individuals, 296 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: Nathan Klein and Manfred Klein's said in their their Cyborg 297 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: paper back in nineteen sixty. Sure, because hey, if you 298 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: want to modify human beings to explore space, you don't 299 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: have to go straight to their genes. You could instead 300 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: basically give them a few mods right now. Yeah, And 301 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: that's that's basically what what these authors were arguing back 302 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty. They presented a grocery list of ways 303 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: that technology and medical science could retrofit the human body 304 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: for the star hopping lifestyle. And this is where the 305 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: concept of the cyborg came from, was this paper in 306 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty by the client, by the clients, by client 307 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: and clients. Yes, one with a C, one with a K, 308 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: one one with an ass on the end, one without it. 309 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: So it always trips me up as well. But yeah, 310 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: they made this argument early on to say, hey, you 311 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: want to put people in space, you need to be 312 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: willing to change people. And we were not willing to 313 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: change people. Or we can look at it two different ways. 314 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: Either we were not willing to do it, or we 315 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: did not really have the the the scientific advances to 316 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: make those changes, at least not the more radical changes 317 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: that are proposed in this paper. This is a very 318 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: if you if you go read this paper, the tone 319 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: of it is incredibly gung ho, you know what I mean. 320 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 1: It's just so like, well, let's get her done, come on, 321 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: changing humans for space. Yeah, yeah, it is very gung ho. Uh. 322 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: I'm gonna read a quick quote from it here to 323 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: give you a taste. Solving the many technical problems involved 324 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: in man's space flight by adapting man to his environment 325 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 1: rather than vice versa will not only make a significant 326 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: step forward in man's scientific progress, but may well for 327 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: vide a new and larger dimension for man's spirit as well. 328 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: So they're like, let's not just change ourselves for space, 329 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,479 Speaker 1: let's change ourselves for the principle of it. Yeah, it's 330 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: kind of It kind of gets back to the idea 331 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: that if you change the body, you change the soul. 332 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: When they're saying, hey, we're gonna in big in the body, 333 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: We're gonna in big in that human soul. Uh, you're 334 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: gonna it's a perfectly cromulent idea. So their recommendations were 335 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: all very much in the vein of retrofits. So we're 336 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: gonna get more into the idea of of sort of 337 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: you know, front end changes via genetic modification. But they 338 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: were all about taking the creature that is evolved for 339 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: this world and adapting it to survive in the other 340 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: or you know, in the space between worlds. Uh. That 341 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: they made a point of not altering the heredity of 342 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 1: the human being. Interesting, So here's another quote. In the past, 343 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: evolution brought about the altering of bodily functions to suit 344 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: different environments. Starting as of now, it will be possible 345 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: to achieve this to some degree without alteration of heredity 346 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: by suitable biochemical, physiological, and electronic modification modifications of man's 347 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: existing modus vivindi. Okay, so the way of getting along 348 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: in life previously we would make an adaptation to our 349 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: genes in a way that could be transferred from adult 350 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: to child. So it's a it's an indirect modification. It's 351 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: not the Slamarckian idea of like, well, I had to 352 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 1: reach up to a tree, so my arms got longer 353 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: and my kids had longer arms. It's no, you're born 354 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: with longer arms by accident you can reach the tree 355 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: better unless your kids get that as well. That's, you know, 356 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: the the accepted version of heredity. Now, of course, epigenetics 357 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: and lots of weird things have sort of modified that 358 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: slightly over the years, but still we basically are operating 359 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: on a germline heredity model for for where our body 360 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: traits come from. And they're saying, no, we don't have 361 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: to do that anymore. We can change people who were 362 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: alive right now. They don't have to get these changes 363 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: from their their ancestors, and the changes are rather fascinating. 364 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: The ones that they proposed. So they make suggestions in 365 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: including the use of hypothermic hibernation for extended space travel, 366 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: lowering body temperature, and administering various drugs through an automatic 367 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: osmotic pump of course to alter enzyme levels, low gravity tolerance, etcetera. 368 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: There's also the the idea that you could use a 369 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: solar or nuclear powered inverse fuel cell in place of 370 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: a lung. Isn't that just beautiful? A nuclear powered fuel 371 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: cell for respiration. And then this is probably my favorite 372 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: passage from the paper, fluid intake and output fluid balance 373 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: in the astronaut could be largely maintained via a shunt 374 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: from the uritors to the venous circulation after removal or 375 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: conversion of noxious substances. Sterilization of the gastro intestinal tract 376 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: plus intravenous or direct intra gastric feeding could reduce fecal 377 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: elimination to a minimum. And even this might be reutilized. 378 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: This is ambition, This ambition if I've ever seen it, Yeah, 379 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: this is the basic cybernetic replumbing of the human body. Yeah, 380 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: they're looking at what the human body does. They're saying, like, look, 381 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: pooping and peaking so much waste here. We gotta find 382 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: a way to reclaim all of this waste from poop 383 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: and p This enthusiasm reminds me of passage in Mary 384 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: Roach's excellent book Packing from Mars, But she talks about 385 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: the clash of culture between the NASA scientists and the 386 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: astronauts themselves, especially early on when the astronauts themselves tended 387 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: to be essentially cowboys. They were they were the they 388 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: were the test pilots. They were that they were very 389 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: man only men of the of of the sixties. Well, 390 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: I think actually the astronauts may have better embodied this, uh, 391 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: this client inclined, gung ho attitude of like, yeah, let's 392 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,719 Speaker 1: do whatever, get her done. Well to a point, because, 393 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: as Roach points out, you have scientists who would say, 394 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: all right, uh to and to enable this kind of 395 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: space journey, that needs to be a certain amount of 396 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: like repurposing fecal matter, We need to we need to 397 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: figure out how to make the interior of the spaceship 398 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: out of consumable products, that sort of thing. And and 399 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: she said that there there would there would come a 400 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: point where the at the astronauts that they caught wind 401 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: of this idea, they would say Yeah, well we're not 402 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: doing that. That's just that's too far. So how's that, 403 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,920 Speaker 1: how's that spaceship ready Salisbury stake meal coming? Well, it's 404 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: it's still a work in progress. But well, I guess 405 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: it does come down to the oh, just the the 406 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: scope of what you're trying to do. Just this just 407 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: this impossible dream of of of of taking terrestrial organisms 408 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: and allowing them to to journey and even thrive beyond 409 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: our world. You've got to You've got to enter into 410 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: that with a very gung home change everything attitude. Otherwise 411 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: how are you going to get there? Well? Yeah, there 412 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: there are different ways you could approach this. So if 413 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: you're talking about modifying astronauts for space travel, one way 414 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: you could think about it is how do we get 415 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: them through the mission? Right? How do we modify astronauts 416 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: so that they can complete their mission objectives and survive 417 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: the whole time and come back, versus thinking about modifying 418 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: astronauts to be the kind of organism where this is 419 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: the environment they thrive in. We're going to space is 420 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: natural to them, and it's not just to get them 421 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: through it without them dying or suffering debilitating illness, but 422 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: to make them at home in these new environments like 423 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: space and other planets. Does that make sense? So in 424 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: order to carry all this up, why should we depend 425 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: on crude aftermarket fixes like replumbing the human body and 426 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: installing nuclear lungs? Why do that when we could achieve 427 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: the ideal or you know, quote unquote ideal space faring 428 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:20,239 Speaker 1: human via modern and near future gene editing technology. And 429 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,959 Speaker 1: that is not as far fetched as it might sound. 430 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: And when we come back from this break, are you 431 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: ready for a break, Robert, I'm ready for a break. 432 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: All right, we'll take a quick break, and when we 433 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: come back, we're going to talk about the Crisper gene 434 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: editing method. Alright, we're back, so again, gene editing Crisper. 435 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: This is a topic that we've wanted to discuss for 436 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,959 Speaker 1: some time. I know we've had listeners who've reached out 437 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: and said, he said, hey, do an episode on Crisper. 438 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, but and I know 439 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: you've you've covered Crisper, I think on other shows before, 440 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: but I always found it a bit huh intimidating because 441 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: there's there's too to look at Crisper and then draw 442 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,479 Speaker 1: in sort of the the more everyday examples of how 443 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: it might be utilized in the fighting of diseases and whatnot, 444 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: and then drawing in a lot of the continued controversy 445 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: over GMO in general. It it becomes a bit intimidating, 446 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: and I like I like the idea of discussing it 447 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: here because it lines up nicely with a specific science 448 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: fiction flavored UM use for its products. Sure, for the 449 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: purposes of today's conversation, you can think of it as 450 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: the tiny micro molecular structure that makes better astronauts. Okay, 451 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: So CRISPER has been in the news for several years now, 452 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: and if you're one of those people who've heard about 453 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: it but you've been afraid to ask what it is, 454 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,479 Speaker 1: you're not alone. We we get this question popping up 455 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,919 Speaker 1: all the time. A lot of people, I think I've 456 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: heard of it, and they know it's a genetic technique. 457 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: They know genetesists are going crazy about its potential, both 458 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: for good and for ill, but they're not quite clear 459 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: what exactly is it. So I'm going to try to 460 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: give the easy version to explain what it is UM 461 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: without getting overly complicated. So CRISPER is the most common 462 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 1: shorthand for this new form of genetic technology that's revolutionizing 463 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: our ability to edit the genomes of living organisms. The 464 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: ability to edit a genome has already existed, so it's 465 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: not that we can edit genomes whereas we could not before. 466 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: That's existed at least since the nineteen nineties. But the 467 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: CRISPER tool kit is making the process easier, more efficient, 468 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: more precise, and cheaper. Now, when I say that it's 469 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: a tool or a technology, this can be a little 470 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: bit misleading because CRISPER is not something that was invented 471 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: in a lab. Rather, it was identified in living microbes 472 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: and then harnessed and modified for human scientific use. So 473 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: CRISPER is part of the natural immune system. It's the 474 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 1: immune function of single, single celled organisms like bacteria and archaea, 475 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: and it allows them to protect themselves against viruses. But 476 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: you still might be asking, wait a minute, but what 477 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 1: is it? What's the thing? So I'll try to explain 478 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: that as clearly as I can. CRISPER stands for clustered 479 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: regularly inner spaced short palindromic repeats, and in a direct sense, 480 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: these are just segments of DNA. So you've got the 481 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: genome of a prokariotic organism, for example, of bacterium of E. Coli, 482 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: and it's got its DNA, and along that DNA of 483 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: this E. Coal I, you'll find places where there are 484 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: these clusters of DNA that read the same forwards as 485 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: they read backwards their palindromic, just like palindromes in words. Robert, 486 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: do you have a favorite palindrome? I've got the I 487 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: love Rats Live on No Evil Star. Oh, man, that 488 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: that one is great. I don't think I've ever heard 489 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: that one before. But that's impossible to follow. I think 490 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: I saw that on the internet at some point. I 491 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: assume someone has a book with that title. That would 492 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: that's a great book title, Rats Live on No Evil Star. 493 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 1: It implies like rats may live on a good star. 494 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: It it feels like it should have there should be 495 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: some wisdom in their right plasma rats like where someone's like, man, 496 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: I just I haven't really down about the state of 497 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: the world today. Well you know what what they say, 498 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: Rats live on no Evil Star? Right on? Yeah, it 499 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: has that fortune cookie vibe. But anyway, so there are 500 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: these segments of DNA that read the same forwards as 501 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: backwards and in between them. So that's where the term 502 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: inner space comes in the eye and crisper. In between 503 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: these palindromic repeats are segments of DNA that exactly match 504 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: the DNA of viruses that are bacteria killing viruses like 505 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: bacteria phages. So in a similar way to how your 506 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: body makes antibodies, so your immune system can harget and 507 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: destroy germs that have already infected you in the past, 508 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: a bacterium makes copies of viral DNA and its genome, 509 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: so it can recognize that viral DNA in the future 510 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: and destroy it. But how does this happen? Well I 511 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: mentioned that crisper is shorthand. It's sort of a shorthand 512 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: for a tool kit of genes and proteins associated with 513 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: crisper in the wild, and one of these systems is 514 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: the Crisper CAST nine system. This is one of the 515 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: main ones that's actually being talked about when people talk 516 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:37,719 Speaker 1: about crisper. So CAST genes are genes, they're Crisper associated genes, 517 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: which is where CAST comes from. And like all genes, 518 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: they're also made of DNA and they're part of the genome. 519 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: So DNA of course creates proteins, and proteins can do 520 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: work inside a cell. So CAST DNA makes DNA editing proteins. 521 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: If you think about your DNA has this part that 522 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: generate proteins that can make edits to your DNA. For example, 523 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: these would be enzymes called nucleases that are able to 524 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: snip DNA at certain points like scissors. So let's try 525 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: to imagine you are a prokaryotic cell. So you are 526 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: a cell of the bacterium Streptococcus pyogenes. Robert, can you 527 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: put yourself in that frame of mind? How hard is it? Well? 528 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: So it's it's it's more of a challenge than imagining 529 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: myself as a hoppit or a dwarf. But yeah, I 530 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: think I can do it. Okay, So you're this Streptococcus 531 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: bacterium and your CAST genes in your genome create this 532 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: big blob of proteins called CAST nine for Crisper associated 533 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: protein nine. And this CAST nine is is this protein 534 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: structure that's equipped with nucleases. Remember those are the enzymes 535 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: that can snip DNA, and it's also equipped with strands 536 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: of RNA matching all of the viral DNA that you've 537 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: stored up in your genome over the generations. So this 538 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: CAST nine object floats around inside you, inside this cell, 539 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: and if a virus comes along and squirt some of 540 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: its DNA into you, the CAST nine system can latch 541 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: onto that viral DNA with its matching set of crisper 542 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: RNA and then bust up that viral DNA with its nucleases. Right, 543 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: So it's got the profile of the viral DNA it 544 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: wants to catch, and it's got these proteins, these nucleases 545 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: that can destroy that viral DNA. Now, if it comes 546 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: across viral DNA that's not already stored in your genome, 547 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: it can also make a copy of that viral DNA, 548 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: snip a hole in the crisper part of your genome, 549 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: and insert it so that you were protected in the future. 550 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: So this gets incorporated into future generations of your germline. 551 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: Now that's some amazing molecular technology. But the way it 552 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: comes in to the scientific research is what if we 553 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: could harness that for our own purposes, And that's what 554 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 1: scientists within the past few years have been doing. So 555 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,959 Speaker 1: the Crisper CAST nine technology is a modified version of 556 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: this biological system, and what it does is it allows 557 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: scientists to insert whatever DNA they want as the model 558 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: for the Crisper RNA in the cast nine system. So 559 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: this Crisper cast nine tool can be given a target 560 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: segment of DNA and then it can go in with 561 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: precision and snip that and only that section out of 562 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: your genome. You. Now, this can be useful if you 563 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: want to, for example, knockout a gene that's causing some 564 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: unwanted effect. Or it can even be used to insert 565 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: a specific string of DNA code at a targeted location, 566 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: and that's really interesting. So it can punch a hole 567 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: in a gene that you want knocked out, or it 568 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: can go in and make an edit. It can cut 569 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: open a hole, insert what you want, and move back out. 570 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: And what this all amounts to is that we can 571 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: edit our DNA and the DNA of other organisms with 572 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: much greater precision, much easier than ever before. And obviously 573 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: this is a big deal. This technology is going to 574 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: be incredibly powerful. It's not just a future thing. It's 575 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: already being used in the lab today as a research tool. 576 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: But there is this really strong, robust argument among scientists 577 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,320 Speaker 1: and bioethicists about how it should be used. Right, But 578 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: most people are okay with the idea of trying to 579 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: develop uses that would, for example, heal a cancer causing 580 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: mutation in an adult human, or cure some other disease. 581 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: But other things are a lot more controversial when you 582 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: consider ideas like editing the germline DNA, and that's the 583 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: DNA that's not just part of your somatic cells, not 584 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: just part of your body now, but the DNA that 585 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: would get passed on from one generation to another. Because 586 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: if you make edits to that, you're essentially editing all 587 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: of the children and grandchildren and future to sentence that 588 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: a person would have without the consent of those future descendants. 589 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:08,359 Speaker 1: You are modifying the human being. And in doing that 590 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,280 Speaker 1: you were I mean that that encompasses all the potential 591 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: positives and negatives of that that godlike act. Yeah, and 592 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: and there are tons of other things to consider it. 593 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 1: I think it's a very interesting debate about what should 594 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: be done with this technology, if anything at all. I mean, 595 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: I think it's hard to argue that we shouldn't use 596 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: it for anything, because it's clearly a powerful research tool, 597 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: not just for editing people as they exist, but just 598 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: for for for example, identifying certain types of genes that 599 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: do certain things. It's powerful in the lab to find 600 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: things out about the human genome um, but there are 601 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: tons of questions about what it should be used for. 602 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: For example, we found this one really interesting article just 603 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: from I think, published just a few days ago in 604 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,879 Speaker 1: June in the New York Times by Moises of Alaska's 605 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: man Off called and it was an argument quote in 606 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: favor of bad genes. Yeah, this is a great read. 607 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: He so he points in the article, he points to UH, 608 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: specifically to the case of sickle cell. So the gene 609 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: itself is usually found in people of Sub Saharan Africa, 610 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,319 Speaker 1: the Middle East, in India, and having one copy of 611 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 1: the gene can prevent the worst symptoms of malaria and UH. 612 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: Whereas if you have if you have to, then you 613 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: get into the that that's where the problems arise. Right. 614 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 1: So yeah, so it's a it's a gene that if 615 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: you have two copies of this can cause a terrible 616 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: disease that leads to a lot of suffering. But if 617 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: you just have one copy of it, it can be 618 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: incredibly beneficial in the environment. So it's not it's not 619 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: just like a defect. It arose for a reason, it 620 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,879 Speaker 1: provides a survival advantage. Right, it's just when it when 621 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: you end up having more than one, or when it 622 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: becomes out of balance. It's kind of it's kind of 623 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: the reality of life in general. Right. There are plenty 624 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 1: things in our life, in our life that in moderation 625 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: are very helpful, but it's when they become unbalanced. You know, 626 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: having having one pet dog in your house is cool. 627 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: Having twenty eighth is is an unbalanced reality. Yeah. Uh. 628 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: And and there are lots of cases of genes like this, 629 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: Genes that may appear that that do in fact cause 630 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: negative effects, but also do confer some strong advantage in 631 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: certain environments. Yeah. For instance, a gene variants that cause 632 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: lung disease cystic fibrosis. It's hypothesized that having just one 633 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: copy of the gene protects against TB tuberculosis, also known 634 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: as the White Plague of Europe of Esca's men Off 635 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: points out, uh in one and people from Northwest Europe 636 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,879 Speaker 1: or Northwest European descent have it. So you're probably wondering 637 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: at this point, why do we need to worry about 638 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: established diseases? Why do we need to worry about ailments 639 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: for which we already have uh uh, you know, more 640 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: robust means of combating them. Well, the problem is that 641 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: new pathogens for which we don't have cures continue to emerge, 642 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,919 Speaker 1: and some of these bad gene might be needed one day. 643 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: So I was thinking about this in terms of Batman. 644 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,720 Speaker 1: It's like, if you have a situation where a Gotham city, 645 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: you've managed to to rid yourself of all of these criminals, 646 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: they're no more super villains running amuck. Let's kill Batman. 647 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: Let's get rid of Batman. Why don't we have a Batman. 648 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: He's just a distraction, right, He's probably a drain on 649 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: the local economy. It's a lot of traffic pile ups. Yeah, yeah, 650 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 1: and is and and is himself you know, an illegal 651 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: entity by the way. But then the Joker shows up 652 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: after you've gotten rid of Batman, yeah, or some new 653 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: super villain that we can't even envision yet, And then 654 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: are we going to have the basic vigilante tools to 655 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: combat him and in the case of of our own genome, 656 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: or we're gonna have the basic genomic tools in our 657 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 1: body for our body to combat this threat. And I 658 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: think this is a very interesting argument that I mean, 659 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: part of it is that we just don't understand everything 660 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: about our genome, and genes that do appear to cause 661 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: some kind of negative effect may also be doing something 662 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 1: important for us that we don't realize. That's right, And 663 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 1: as Vasco's men Off points out, environment is also a 664 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 1: key to here. So some of the gene variants now 665 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 1: linked with disease probably don't cause as many problems in 666 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: other environments, depending perhaps on microbes in their home environment. Uh, 667 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: he'd be pointsed, for instance, uh, the biome of a 668 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: less hygienic past. Uh, because you have to think about 669 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: the fact that, uh, you know, it's it's basically the 670 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: same scenario we have with space travel. The humans evolved 671 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: within a very firm set of parameters, and even within 672 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: our world they are there, they evolved in certain portions 673 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: of of our environment, geologically isolated for long periods of time, 674 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: and so you have to factor that into their into 675 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,280 Speaker 1: their genes, into the expression of those genes, and into 676 00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: the microbiome that become is uh pretty much standard for them. Yeah, 677 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: But I mean the broader application to space travel is 678 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,359 Speaker 1: just that you don't know exactly what some of your 679 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: genes that appear to be uh, useless or harmful in 680 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,479 Speaker 1: space might do for you once you're up there, right, Yeah, 681 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 1: there's there's actually a wonderful quote from this New York 682 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: Times article that I think sums up a lot of 683 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 1: what we're talking about here. He says, quote, we evolved 684 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: in environments that are radically different from today's, and some 685 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 1: of our genes may work better in those environments. This 686 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,760 Speaker 1: complicates the idea of trying to perfect the human genome 687 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: with technology. Given how much the world has changed in 688 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: just the past one hundred and fifty years and how 689 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 1: much it's likely to change again in the next one 690 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty the question is what environment will we 691 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: optimize our genes for? Yeah, now, what if here's another thing. 692 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: So imagine you've got people on an interstellar arc ship, 693 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's an intergenerational or multigenerational starship taking you 694 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: to another planet, and you optimize their genes for survival 695 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: on that spaceship on the journey so that they can 696 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: survive and thrive in this spaceship environment. What if the 697 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: way you've optimized them for the spaceship undercuts their ability 698 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: to survive once they arrive at the target colonization planet. Yeah, 699 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: and then you run into a situation where you're having 700 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: to first adapt the crew members, and then there's a 701 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: different adaptation process that has to kick in for the 702 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 1: intended colonists. Anyway, I mean, I think this is not 703 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: necessarily an argument that we should never use crisper to 704 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: modify the human genome. But I think it is a 705 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: good word of caution to say, like, if there are 706 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,359 Speaker 1: areas where we're not sure we understand everything a gene does, 707 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,240 Speaker 1: and we're not we don't have a very clear picture 708 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,400 Speaker 1: of the full range of effects of a certain gene 709 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: and what our life would be like without it, we 710 00:41:55,640 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: should be careful about being being too cavalier to change things. Yeah, 711 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: I mean, just we don't understand all of the ramifications 712 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 1: necessarily for some of these changes, But that that's kind 713 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: of baked into the challenge though, right is determining what 714 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,800 Speaker 1: tweaks we can make that are going to potentially benefit 715 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: a human space traveler without creating any you know, additional constraints, 716 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: creating additional problems or or situation that could be problematic 717 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 1: later on. Yeah, And of course, all of the cautionary 718 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,479 Speaker 1: questions and ethical dilemmas about Crisper don't in there. There's 719 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: a ton of stuff to consider, and um, that's probably 720 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: a realm for future episodes where we can talk more 721 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: about all of the controversies with Crisper. I know, just 722 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: in the past few months, I think there have been 723 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 1: there's been some back and forth with letters about the 724 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: ethics and and the wisdom of using Crisper in the 725 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 1: journal Nature. Yeah, and then on top of that, of 726 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: course they're just uh, you know, the public's response to it. 727 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 1: So as as King Wu pointed out in this panel, 728 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: there they are many ethnic groups in particular that have 729 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:07,359 Speaker 1: not been well served by genetics and especially by eugenics 730 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 1: and the task which was it's worth the pointing out 731 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 1: both immoral science and bad science. So a failure on 732 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,320 Speaker 1: two fronts. Um, So you know, to some to some degree, 733 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: it's it's unfair to to loop them together. But there's 734 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:24,879 Speaker 1: undeniably a connection between eugenics and and genetics. Yeah, I mean, 735 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,239 Speaker 1: you can see people's understandable fear about the idea of 736 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,239 Speaker 1: making better humans. Like, Okay, so if somebody out there 737 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: is trying to engineer humans to be better humans, do 738 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: they have a specific idea about what better humans are 739 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: and is that not just like uh, having fewer diseases, 740 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: but do they also have aesthetic ideas? Yeah, and these 741 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: are all questions we need to ask as we potentially 742 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,960 Speaker 1: enter into an age where where this kind of technology 743 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,879 Speaker 1: is utilized or more you know, we consider its use. 744 00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,919 Speaker 1: But while a lot of groups take issue with gene atit, 745 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,600 Speaker 1: Woo points out that the most people, when when questioned 746 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: about it, they're cooler with the idea of the technology 747 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 1: being used to better protect astronauts in space. Yeah. So 748 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,760 Speaker 1: I think people are generally cooler with the more specific applications. 749 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,920 Speaker 1: Feeling cancer patients, Okay, Yeah, I'm good with that. Modifying 750 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 1: astronauts for space sounds great. Yeah, tear them up, do 751 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: what you gotta do. But when it just comes to 752 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: this general, free form, open ended should we change human beings, 753 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,879 Speaker 1: that starts to get a little squeaky. Yeah, I mean, 754 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:33,839 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's it's kind of always the case, 755 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 1: right Like if you if you if you make the 756 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: question broad enough, if you, for instance, were to say, 757 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: should humans live in the sky, No, that sounds preposterous. 758 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: Humans should not live in the sky. Humans were were 759 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 1: you know, evolved or were created? If you want to 760 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 1: go that route to to live here on the ground. 761 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: We should absolutely not live in the sky. If we 762 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: went in the sky, we'd fall down and die. But 763 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 1: if you were to say, oh, well, should we create 764 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,920 Speaker 1: planes that we can we can fly around in some 765 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 1: sort of vehicle that allow us to go from point 766 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 1: A to point B. Could we create a luxury hotel 767 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: on an airship and then if you if you're interested 768 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: in it, and you have enough of money to flip 769 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,239 Speaker 1: the bill, you can go out there and spend the 770 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 1: night in the air. Yes, that sounds much more reasonable. 771 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: It's also kind of like if you ask people, would 772 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:26,279 Speaker 1: you be okay with scientists experimenting on ways to resuscitate 773 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: people who have encountered twenty minutes of brain death, it 774 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: might be like, well, sure, but if you say, should 775 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: we be working on experiments to revive the dead? Yeah, 776 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,719 Speaker 1: then you're gonna get some pushback. Alright, we're gonna take 777 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 1: another quick breaking. When we come back, we will continue 778 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 1: our discussion about the genetically modified astronaut. Alright, we're back, 779 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,920 Speaker 1: so we should we should definitely drive home something that 780 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,360 Speaker 1: we've we've discussed in length and past episodes, the icularly 781 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,919 Speaker 1: Your Life as a Mars colonist, and that is that 782 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,120 Speaker 1: the traveling in space or and certainly traveling to other 783 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: world it's gonna open you up to a number of 784 00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 1: unhealthy scenarios. I guess youho'ld say, yeah, I got. We 785 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,759 Speaker 1: also touched on this in five Reasons Never to Take 786 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,759 Speaker 1: your Space Helmet Off. So the big one, the one, 787 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,040 Speaker 1: that one that we spent a lot of time in 788 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 1: that episode with, is of course radiation. Exactly. Now, there 789 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 1: are in fact organisms that are naturally radio resistant organisms. 790 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,799 Speaker 1: I would tend to think, just intuitively if I had 791 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,680 Speaker 1: never read anything about this, the radiation is one of 792 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: those things kind of like a fire or something that 793 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 1: just kind of kills everything. But there are in fact 794 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:49,760 Speaker 1: vastly different levels of susceptibility to radiation in the animal 795 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,920 Speaker 1: kingdom and in organisms generally. And it's not just that 796 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,960 Speaker 1: there are some extreme aphile micro organisms that can survive radiation. 797 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: I mean, we know about tartar grades and things like that, 798 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,319 Speaker 1: but there you know, even if you just look at 799 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 1: animals like it looks like turtles have more radio resistance 800 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 1: than dogs probably, so there is some room within large 801 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,399 Speaker 1: mammals like us to modify our bodies to be more 802 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: resistant to radiation. Alright, So, so one potential there is 803 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: if we can and again there are a lot of 804 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 1: gifts and and and and butts and and all of this, 805 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:29,239 Speaker 1: But if we can figure out ways to alter the 806 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:34,879 Speaker 1: human genome to encourage a greater resistance to radiation, greater 807 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 1: protection from radiation, that would be an area of opportunity. Yeah, 808 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 1: and I mean there are lots of ways you can 809 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:43,239 Speaker 1: think that you might be able to do this. One 810 00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:48,759 Speaker 1: would be the body already has natural DNA repair properties, right. 811 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:53,319 Speaker 1: If there's DNA damage, the genome will try to put 812 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 1: itself back together, and of course, if it puts itself 813 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,880 Speaker 1: back together wrong, this can lead to a mutation that 814 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,480 Speaker 1: can have bad effects and maybe cause cancer or something 815 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,920 Speaker 1: like that. But you could try to genetically modify the 816 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,320 Speaker 1: human body so as to have stronger DNA repair precision 817 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:15,320 Speaker 1: and stronger DNA repair resilience. Or here's another possibility, Robert, 818 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,440 Speaker 1: remember when we did the episode about the eater of rads, 819 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,680 Speaker 1: the radiation resistant fungi that that supposedly, if these results 820 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: are correct, and not only survive in the presence of, 821 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 1: for example, gamma radiation, but can apparently gain some kind 822 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,279 Speaker 1: of usable bio energy from it. And this was done 823 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,560 Speaker 1: by absorbing the radiation through melaninrich cells. Now, I wonder 824 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,600 Speaker 1: if you could try to do something similar to take 825 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,920 Speaker 1: some inspiration from that and try to modify human somatic 826 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,239 Speaker 1: cells so that they have similar properties of of you know, 827 00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: internal chemicals and molecules that are absorbent of radiation and 828 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,480 Speaker 1: dissipating the radiation instead of allowing it to penetrate the 829 00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,600 Speaker 1: DNA in your cells. Yes, so, so we're looking at 830 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,960 Speaker 1: ways to further protect the body against radiation and make 831 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,000 Speaker 1: it less susceptible to damage from radiation and UH and 832 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:11,799 Speaker 1: then potentially better repair itself. Okay, Now on top of that, 833 00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,000 Speaker 1: one one UH issue that was brought up in this 834 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,719 Speaker 1: World Science Festival discussion is a cancer treatment in the 835 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,759 Speaker 1: reduction of cancer risk totally. Some of that falls in 836 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,360 Speaker 1: line with the radiation here for sure. But you know, 837 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,040 Speaker 1: at first this might seem like more of a terrestrial concern, right, 838 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,800 Speaker 1: But what if you're talking about a ten year trip 839 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,520 Speaker 1: and then you realize you've developed cancer three years in 840 00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,680 Speaker 1: five years in so you can't take a risk. You 841 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,600 Speaker 1: can't risk an astro not coming down with cancer developing 842 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,879 Speaker 1: cancer uh during the trip, because they might not have 843 00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,800 Speaker 1: time to make it back to Earth for treatment, or 844 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,960 Speaker 1: it might not even be in the cards for a 845 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,360 Speaker 1: return trip at all. Sure, I mean, if this is 846 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,920 Speaker 1: a colonization, or if it's a trip to Mars, this 847 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,040 Speaker 1: is going to be a multi year kind of thing. Yeah. 848 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,440 Speaker 1: I mean, even if it's one of these, uh, these 849 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,200 Speaker 1: one way trips that we've in a lot of discussion about. 850 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,880 Speaker 1: The plan is probably not for you to get to 851 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,320 Speaker 1: Mars and then die immediately. I mean, that may happen. 852 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,680 Speaker 1: That's thus are the risks of such a venture, but 853 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,120 Speaker 1: you it would be it would be even more of 854 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,640 Speaker 1: a tragedy if it were to occur due to uh 855 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,239 Speaker 1: to the effects of cancer, um, you know, within the 856 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,600 Speaker 1: first year of landing on Mars totally. Now, what about 857 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,080 Speaker 1: the effects of micro gravity? This is obviously going to 858 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,560 Speaker 1: be one of the biggest challenges that biological systems encounter 859 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,759 Speaker 1: in space. We are adapted to an environment with Earth 860 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,680 Speaker 1: gravity with one G. You go to a place without 861 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,359 Speaker 1: one G, or at least without consistent one G, you're 862 00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,520 Speaker 1: going to encounter some biological disturbances. Yeah, this is this 863 00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,120 Speaker 1: is the area where and I think we've covered some 864 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,120 Speaker 1: of the science on this show before, Like this is 865 00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,239 Speaker 1: an area that there's been a lot of study, Uh, 866 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,640 Speaker 1: not necessary, a lot of great answers other than lots 867 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,600 Speaker 1: of exercise and uh and in certain vitamin supplements. Get 868 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:02,600 Speaker 1: on that treadmill. Uh yeah, and and tread use of 869 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,759 Speaker 1: to the treadmills. The use of exercise devices seems to 870 00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:06,200 Speaker 1: be one of the key ways to make up for 871 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,120 Speaker 1: it because we don't have artificial gravity. Even though we 872 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,160 Speaker 1: have these these wonderful sci fi visions of of an 873 00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:17,280 Speaker 1: artificial gravity created via centrifugal force via like a spinning 874 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,399 Speaker 1: space station, like a tourist or like the space station 875 00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,960 Speaker 1: we see in two thousand one of Space Odyssey, we 876 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,839 Speaker 1: these ideas are largely unproven. Um and it I mean, 877 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,280 Speaker 1: we we do know you could create a force towards 878 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,600 Speaker 1: the floor if you did that. Yes, yeah, we we 879 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,200 Speaker 1: know we know that. Yeah, we know we could create 880 00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,439 Speaker 1: the force, but we don't know exactly what it would 881 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,879 Speaker 1: be like to try and then function as an astronaut 882 00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,440 Speaker 1: in such an environment, but for a really long period 883 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,759 Speaker 1: of time especially Yeah, and then think about if you 884 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,080 Speaker 1: get to maybe so if you're going to another planet. 885 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,600 Speaker 1: Once you get to the planet, you're not really going 886 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,000 Speaker 1: to have that option there the planet, You're just gonna 887 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,200 Speaker 1: be dealing with whatever the natural gravity of that planet is. Yeah, 888 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,960 Speaker 1: it was brought up in the talk by A. Caleb 889 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,759 Speaker 1: sharf h that we might have to if we were 890 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:09,239 Speaker 1: on one of these spinning artificial environment uh constructions, we 891 00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,200 Speaker 1: might have to deal with the of course, the coreolis effects. 892 00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,440 Speaker 1: What would happen if I threw an apple to you 893 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 1: on board one of these space stations. I don't know. 894 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,480 Speaker 1: I've never tried to throw an apple in a spinning drum. 895 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,600 Speaker 1: What would happen? I don't know. But it's one of 896 00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,200 Speaker 1: those those new realities you would have to get used 897 00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,760 Speaker 1: to just the way objects behave in the space, because 898 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,920 Speaker 1: you would be replicating gravity, but it would be it 899 00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,640 Speaker 1: would be artificial gravity in in a in a in 900 00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,160 Speaker 1: a very real sense. I mean, there are just so 901 00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:45,239 Speaker 1: many ways that space messes with you in a systemic way. 902 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,760 Speaker 1: In some cases, I think it's not even totally clear 903 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:52,040 Speaker 1: when say, astronauts on the International Space Station exhibit symptoms, 904 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,920 Speaker 1: what in what ways the symptoms are informed by the 905 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 1: different conditions of space. So you've got micro gravity, But 906 00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,120 Speaker 1: it's not just the micrograp You've also got a different 907 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:04,279 Speaker 1: microbial environment, and you've got you know, you've got a 908 00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,799 Speaker 1: million different things going on at once. Some of it's 909 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,359 Speaker 1: probably just stress and things like that. So we don't 910 00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,440 Speaker 1: even know at this point for sure exactly what parts 911 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,920 Speaker 1: of space travel do what to you. In some cases 912 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:18,600 Speaker 1: we have a good idea, in other cases were not 913 00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,120 Speaker 1: as sure. Yeah, and the talk, Mason also pointed out 914 00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,799 Speaker 1: that when you when you get into space, thousands of 915 00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:28,480 Speaker 1: genes become perturbed. So we have a short list of 916 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,040 Speaker 1: risk genes for space and an example of this would 917 00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,760 Speaker 1: be stress response genes, DNA damage and repair genes. Yeah, 918 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,160 Speaker 1: and a lot of this was to be expected because 919 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,320 Speaker 1: gene expression changes all the time. It happens, it happens 920 00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,319 Speaker 1: here on Earth every time you eat. It kind of 921 00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,399 Speaker 1: goes back to our discussion about the the role that 922 00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,560 Speaker 1: your local environment, your local microbiome, would have on the 923 00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,160 Speaker 1: expression of your genes to and that could that gets 924 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,560 Speaker 1: into another fact of life in space pointed out by 925 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,600 Speaker 1: Mason and this, and that's that that microbes become more 926 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,560 Speaker 1: active in space. So salmonella, for instance, becomes more deadly 927 00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:08,239 Speaker 1: for mice that have been studied in orbital environments. Yeah. 928 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,200 Speaker 1: I think we mentioned that in the Reasons Not to 929 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:12,719 Speaker 1: Take Your Space Helmet Off episode. So, yeah, once you 930 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,840 Speaker 1: get into space, it appears that space conditions, for whatever reason, 931 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:22,239 Speaker 1: increase the virulence of pathogens, which is just great. Who 932 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,640 Speaker 1: decided that would happen? Um. Yeah, it increases the virulence 933 00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,879 Speaker 1: of pathogens and depresses your immune function, right, it leads 934 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:34,520 Speaker 1: to these immune problems. Like we we talked in in 935 00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,040 Speaker 1: that other episode about all the ways that space messes 936 00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,640 Speaker 1: with your immune system, including creating these sort of almost 937 00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:45,560 Speaker 1: allergic like effects. And so maybe that is one fruitful 938 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,360 Speaker 1: place to start looking about modification of humans. If you 939 00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,160 Speaker 1: want to modify astronauts to survive in space, you might 940 00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,480 Speaker 1: need to make changes to how the immune system is 941 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,319 Speaker 1: expressed and regulated by the genome. Yeah, I mean it 942 00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,719 Speaker 1: sounds like just across the board. You know, in the 943 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,120 Speaker 1: same way that an astronaut is does not it is 944 00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,759 Speaker 1: probably not going to be your average physical specimen, you know. 945 00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,120 Speaker 1: They they need to be Yeah, they need to be 946 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:11,759 Speaker 1: in shape, they need to they need to be able 947 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,280 Speaker 1: to survive the rigors of space. So in order to 948 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,920 Speaker 1: to tweak the genome you need to essentially tweak for 949 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:22,120 Speaker 1: just a really healthy person. So ignore you know, don't 950 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,240 Speaker 1: worry about crab clause just yet, Like, focus on creating 951 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,200 Speaker 1: a really healthy astronaut that's going to be able to 952 00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:31,520 Speaker 1: withstand these changes that's gonna you know, for instance, not 953 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,320 Speaker 1: suffer as much bone and muscle loss due to the 954 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,760 Speaker 1: effects of micro gravity. You know. It's it's also worth 955 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,239 Speaker 1: noting in all of this that that some of these 956 00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,920 Speaker 1: negatives that we're talking about, you know, or but are 957 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:50,120 Speaker 1: actually examples of the body adapting in real time. Uh, 958 00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,839 Speaker 1: you know, not evolving, but adapting. Uh So, so all 959 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,440 Speaker 1: that bone and muscle mass uh that is lost unless 960 00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,600 Speaker 1: you know, vigorous exercises kept up to sort of keep 961 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,320 Speaker 1: it in check. But that's essentially the body acclimatizing to 962 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,040 Speaker 1: this low gravity environment. It's being smart, it's using its 963 00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,480 Speaker 1: resources wisely. Yeah, thing, I don't need to be strong. 964 00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:13,279 Speaker 1: And then there are other changes that are happening as well, 965 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,480 Speaker 1: Like it was pointed out that you will end up 966 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,080 Speaker 1: with callouses on the tops of your feet as well, 967 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,719 Speaker 1: because it's not just the bottom so your feet that 968 00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,080 Speaker 1: are coming in contact with the surfaces in your environment. 969 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,719 Speaker 1: You're becoming You're not this just top down gravity organism anymore. 970 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:33,040 Speaker 1: You're weird. Ye. And then there's the example of clothing. 971 00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,239 Speaker 1: So Mason uh Or he talked a bit about in 972 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,680 Speaker 1: this about his work with the NASA astronaut twins Mark 973 00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,640 Speaker 1: and Scott Kelly, because he did a number of of 974 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,399 Speaker 1: of of experiments who was essentially you know, looking at 975 00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,960 Speaker 1: the at the genetic differences between the two after one 976 00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,160 Speaker 1: of them returned from space and uh And he pointed 977 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:58,839 Speaker 1: out that that after Scott Kelly returned, like he could 978 00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,920 Speaker 1: not wear clothing for a couple of days because just 979 00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:06,400 Speaker 1: the feeling of clothing held down by gravity on his 980 00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:12,120 Speaker 1: skin made him experience quote unquote pain. Yeah. So it's 981 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,200 Speaker 1: just that you become that unaccustomed to even just minor 982 00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:22,160 Speaker 1: aspects of of gravity. It's hard to imagine your shirt hurts. Yeah, 983 00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,120 Speaker 1: And and that's just and that's one of the small things. 984 00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,360 Speaker 1: It's not even getting into you know, you know, potential 985 00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:31,120 Speaker 1: you know, radiation or or or major bone and muscle 986 00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:35,080 Speaker 1: mass loss. Oh. And then of course there's there's the 987 00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,120 Speaker 1: fact that your circadian rhythm is screwed up and is 988 00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,280 Speaker 1: you're trying to sleep unless you have your hands trapped down, 989 00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,320 Speaker 1: they're gonna be floating in your face, you know, phantom 990 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,720 Speaker 1: hands coming at you. And this is something I hadn't 991 00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:50,680 Speaker 1: thought about that Mason pointed out, is that you're you're 992 00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,680 Speaker 1: setting there, you're laying there, floating there. However you want 993 00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,600 Speaker 1: to look at it, strapped down, trying to sleep, and 994 00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,360 Speaker 1: you're already up, like puffed up and snotty, just from 995 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,640 Speaker 1: just hey fever kind of condition, yeah, hey fever kind 996 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,680 Speaker 1: of condition. Just but by virtue of being in space 997 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:10,240 Speaker 1: and sharing everybody's micro biome. But you're also liable to 998 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,160 Speaker 1: wind up sweeping in a bubble of c O two 999 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,720 Speaker 1: what yeah, what he refers to as uh in your 1000 00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:21,440 Speaker 1: own respiratory excrement um, just by virtue of breathing into 1001 00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,960 Speaker 1: this this uh, this this microgravity environment. So like the 1002 00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,240 Speaker 1: gases don't disperse is easily, I guess. Yeah, I've never 1003 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,280 Speaker 1: heard that before. I had not either, but it makes 1004 00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,480 Speaker 1: sense now. In a rare reversal of everything we've been 1005 00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,840 Speaker 1: talking about, of all these dire consequences of venturing into space, 1006 00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:44,320 Speaker 1: Mason points out that our telomeres actually get longer in space. Oh, 1007 00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:48,720 Speaker 1: the telomeres now are these um, these are things having 1008 00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:53,000 Speaker 1: to do supposedly with the natural length of cell division 1009 00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:56,120 Speaker 1: and reproduction in the human body. Yes, so yeah, you 1010 00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:59,280 Speaker 1: get into the like the whole science of telomeres, and 1011 00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:03,280 Speaker 1: we won't get into it here. There's a there's there's 1012 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,080 Speaker 1: an article on how stuff works dot com that I 1013 00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,520 Speaker 1: wrote years ago about it. But the short version is 1014 00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:13,120 Speaker 1: that the telomere length is directly related to uh to lifespan. 1015 00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:18,760 Speaker 1: So if timomeres are longer than than than life is longer. 1016 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,480 Speaker 1: That's kind of the very brief explanation of it. So 1017 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,080 Speaker 1: you could make an argument that if you were in 1018 00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,480 Speaker 1: that life and space lasts longer, that you could live 1019 00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,560 Speaker 1: longer in space, of course, if you were ignoring many 1020 00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:35,040 Speaker 1: of these other debilitating effects. So why did roy Baby 1021 00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,439 Speaker 1: come back to Earth? If he wants more life, maybe 1022 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,080 Speaker 1: he should have stayed in space. Well, but I mean 1023 00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,560 Speaker 1: that's kind of the thing, right, that the telomeres were 1024 00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:46,880 Speaker 1: artificially shortened on replicance, I guess yeah, Or maybe it's 1025 00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:50,280 Speaker 1: because he came back because this is I don't know 1026 00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,400 Speaker 1: if if there's been much treatment on this, but the 1027 00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:57,960 Speaker 1: replicants in Blade Runner, where they made for use and 1028 00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,760 Speaker 1: off world scenarios for use in space. Yeah, I think so. 1029 01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:04,320 Speaker 1: You know, it seems like you could probably create a 1030 01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:09,320 Speaker 1: replicant then that would live longer in space, and if 1031 01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,120 Speaker 1: a return to a higher gravity world, it would have 1032 01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,880 Speaker 1: a genetic effect on it that would kill it. I mean, 1033 01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,480 Speaker 1: this is almost a perfect example of one of the 1034 01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:21,960 Speaker 1: dangers of you say you want to create crisper modified 1035 01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:27,040 Speaker 1: astronauts thrive in space. What if their mission changed and 1036 01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:29,960 Speaker 1: they wanted to come back to Earth. A thing optimized 1037 01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:33,360 Speaker 1: for space would no longer be optimized for Earth. And 1038 01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,640 Speaker 1: there are many cases where if you want a genetic 1039 01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,919 Speaker 1: advantage in one environment, it's not just like a it's 1040 01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,200 Speaker 1: it's not just like a win with no drawback. You know, 1041 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:45,760 Speaker 1: if you were to come back to Earth, it would 1042 01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,520 Speaker 1: actually hurt you. There's a there's a win loss, there's 1043 01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:51,080 Speaker 1: a trade off. Yeah. I guess part of it comes 1044 01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,800 Speaker 1: down to, like, how how far into the future are 1045 01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:58,520 Speaker 1: you gazing? You know, are you creating creating and maybe 1046 01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:02,400 Speaker 1: a too heavier turn, but are you augmitting augmenting people 1047 01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:06,600 Speaker 1: too to remain within this next phase? Are you essentially 1048 01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:13,240 Speaker 1: creating an an interplanetary humanoid species or subspecies? Are you 1049 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:18,000 Speaker 1: are you creating subspecies then that are acclimatized to various 1050 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,240 Speaker 1: soft world environments or are you are you saying, all right, 1051 01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,240 Speaker 1: these people are gonna come back to and then and 1052 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,680 Speaker 1: then like, how does that affect their rights as a citizen? Uh, 1053 01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,400 Speaker 1: as a member of the human species. How much would 1054 01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,400 Speaker 1: you have to modify astronauts before they began to lose 1055 01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,920 Speaker 1: their sense of kinship with earth dwelling humans and earth 1056 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,000 Speaker 1: dwelling humans lost their sense of kinship for the astronauts. 1057 01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:43,920 Speaker 1: I mean, we are incredibly genetically similar to chimpanzees and 1058 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:48,560 Speaker 1: sometimes show a remarkable callousness despite how similar we are. 1059 01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,280 Speaker 1: How much would you have how many genes would you 1060 01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,720 Speaker 1: have to change before we no longer recognize the astronaut 1061 01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,240 Speaker 1: just the same animal as us. Well, and think of 1062 01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,160 Speaker 1: just spatial distance here on Earth And granted this kind 1063 01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:05,320 Speaker 1: of a clunky analogy, but uh, think of the callousness 1064 01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,080 Speaker 1: that one group of people can show for another on 1065 01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,760 Speaker 1: the other side of the Earth. And then imagine us 1066 01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:17,000 Speaker 1: sending people even greater distances, like distances between people that 1067 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:22,760 Speaker 1: have not been possible until until the advent of interplanetary travel. 1068 01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,920 Speaker 1: In other words, the spatial distance between people will be 1069 01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:30,240 Speaker 1: greater than it has ever been in human history. Yeah, 1070 01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:33,040 Speaker 1: what will be the ramifications of that? Yeah, that's a 1071 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,480 Speaker 1: tough thing to consider. Um, and then when you start 1072 01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:40,120 Speaker 1: factoring in the the increased time it takes to transmit 1073 01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:44,959 Speaker 1: information as interconnected as we are on on Earth, now, 1074 01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,000 Speaker 1: like that is not necessarily going to carry over to 1075 01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:52,720 Speaker 1: an interplanetary scenario. I'm thinking kind of you know, far 1076 01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:56,240 Speaker 1: future here, But can you imagine, you know, how out 1077 01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,960 Speaker 1: of the loop you feel when you come in fourteen 1078 01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,200 Speaker 1: minutes after the beginning of a public discussion on Twitter 1079 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:05,480 Speaker 1: about from public event that just happened. Now, people on 1080 01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,400 Speaker 1: Mars are going to be like that constantly, where Mars 1081 01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:09,920 Speaker 1: will have to have its own Twitter. I guess it's 1082 01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:13,240 Speaker 1: the thing of Martian Twitter and Earth Twitter. Uh, that's 1083 01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:18,080 Speaker 1: the only way to do it from Mars Twitter. Now, 1084 01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:19,800 Speaker 1: I think it would be great. It would just be 1085 01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,360 Speaker 1: one person. Would you need a genetic modification in order 1086 01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,160 Speaker 1: to be able to keep up with the jokes on 1087 01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:33,320 Speaker 1: Mars Twitter? Yeah, I mean either red red humor gene maybe. 1088 01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:35,720 Speaker 1: I mean you do get into so many different when 1089 01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:39,160 Speaker 1: you when you start thinking you know, far future. Uh, 1090 01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:42,280 Speaker 1: there's so many a cultural changes that can occur, so 1091 01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:47,880 Speaker 1: many changes in value on top of various microbial changes 1092 01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,560 Speaker 1: that have taken place. Now, a lot of the changes 1093 01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:54,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about so far, the potential genetic changes have 1094 01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,000 Speaker 1: been to survive in a space environment, you know, just 1095 01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,960 Speaker 1: to get along with all of the natural hardships you'd face. 1096 01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,600 Speaker 1: But there are also things that you could imagine changing 1097 01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:06,960 Speaker 1: about people just to make them like more efficient in space. 1098 01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:09,440 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things I can imagine would 1099 01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:13,120 Speaker 1: be like better eyesight for low light conditions. He wanted 1100 01:04:13,160 --> 01:04:15,560 Speaker 1: to have that in space to conserve power or all 1101 01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:19,360 Speaker 1: kinds of power conserving things like could you make people 1102 01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,720 Speaker 1: that had slower metabolisms and space so they needed to 1103 01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:27,280 Speaker 1: consume fewer resources. Would you make people who's I don't know, 1104 01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,560 Speaker 1: genetic engineering so their kidneys are more efficient so they 1105 01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:32,720 Speaker 1: don't don't need to drink as much water to stay 1106 01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:36,200 Speaker 1: healthy or something. Yeah, And I wonder, I mean, I 1107 01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:38,440 Speaker 1: can't help it draw in I guess kind of kind 1108 01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,040 Speaker 1: of clunky comparisons to other natural world organisms and say, well, 1109 01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:43,920 Speaker 1: if we had if we had this feature, would that 1110 01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:46,480 Speaker 1: make us a little uh, you know, a little better 1111 01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:48,840 Speaker 1: in a microgravity environment? For instance, I'm thinking like a 1112 01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:52,440 Speaker 1: cat's whiskers, Like if humans had cat whiskers, would they 1113 01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,440 Speaker 1: be better at floating around through various tubes and whatnot 1114 01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:59,880 Speaker 1: because they have a very ready read on the space 1115 01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,080 Speaker 1: or is the size of their body. Now, maybe humans 1116 01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:07,280 Speaker 1: instead of crab claws need spider spinnerets in space so 1117 01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,760 Speaker 1: that they can like shoot webs out and pull themselves 1118 01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,600 Speaker 1: from place to place in a microgravity environment. Huh. I 1119 01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,000 Speaker 1: wonder how would we spend I guess maybe we would 1120 01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:19,880 Speaker 1: like milk it from our nipples. That would be because 1121 01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:22,600 Speaker 1: because I don't know how, I like a spider man 1122 01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:28,480 Speaker 1: web shooter uh scenario would work. But I'm thinking back 1123 01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,880 Speaker 1: on the the goat we discussed that had been genetically 1124 01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:35,680 Speaker 1: augmented to produce spider silk from its uh it's utters 1125 01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:37,920 Speaker 1: the spider goat. Yeah, so if we could create our 1126 01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:41,640 Speaker 1: own spider nipple scenario, I can imagine like a shirtless astronaut. 1127 01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,480 Speaker 1: He's floating around in the cabin and he needs to 1128 01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:46,920 Speaker 1: move across the room, so he reaches down to his nipple, 1129 01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:50,760 Speaker 1: pulls out some some silk, and like throws a drag 1130 01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,840 Speaker 1: line across the room and then navigates on that. I 1131 01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:57,040 Speaker 1: commend you, Robert, but I think we've reached the end 1132 01:05:57,040 --> 01:06:01,240 Speaker 1: of this conversation probably so uh, anytime the spider goat 1133 01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,360 Speaker 1: is invoked, you've you've kind of reached the limits of 1134 01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,920 Speaker 1: human understanding. I guess, well, hey, you out there, what 1135 01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,080 Speaker 1: do you think would be one of the most useful 1136 01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:13,640 Speaker 1: or interesting genetic modifications for future astronauts and space colonists? 1137 01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,520 Speaker 1: Or do you think that we shouldn't dabble in trying 1138 01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:20,640 Speaker 1: to modify trying to modify humans except for maybe life 1139 01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:24,080 Speaker 1: threatening or survival needs. And to what extent should we 1140 01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:27,960 Speaker 1: focus on changing individuals into what extent should we focus 1141 01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,200 Speaker 1: on changing the species? Like, are you just changing an 1142 01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:34,040 Speaker 1: individual astronaut or a group of astronauts for a journey 1143 01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,760 Speaker 1: for a mission, or are you altering the human species 1144 01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:41,280 Speaker 1: entirely and creating a subspecies that's going to thrive in 1145 01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,400 Speaker 1: a particular environment. Yeah, I don't know. It's a really 1146 01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,400 Speaker 1: interesting question. So, yeah, you out there, let us know 1147 01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,520 Speaker 1: what you think. Yeah, hit us with those other science 1148 01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:53,080 Speaker 1: fiction examples. I'm sure there are tons of them. As always, 1149 01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:57,200 Speaker 1: you can find us all the normal places where on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, 1150 01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:00,000 Speaker 1: Tumbler all those websites. We also have the mother show 1151 01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:01,880 Speaker 1: up stuff to bow your Mind dot com. That's where 1152 01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:05,080 Speaker 1: we'll find all the podcast episodes dating back to the 1153 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:08,800 Speaker 1: very beginning. You'll find videos, blog posts, et cetera, and 1154 01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:11,600 Speaker 1: to email us directly. As always, you can hit us 1155 01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:14,479 Speaker 1: up at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot 1156 01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:26,120 Speaker 1: com for more on this and thousands of other topics. 1157 01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:50,960 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com