WEBVTT - Ep. 65: A Message About Father’s Day & an Interview with Eddie Nickens 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.760 Oh hey, everybody. Ben O'Brien here episode sixty five with 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.520 the Hunting Collective coming at you. It's gonna include a 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:11.119 message for me about Father's Day, and then uh, an 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:16.280 interview with great and powerful Edward T. Nikins, the writer extraordinaire. 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:18.880 But before we get to all that, we're gonna talk 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.960 about the Yetie Go Box. Now, the Yeti Go Box 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:27.240 is badass. Uh. It's airtight, watertight. It's an awesome box 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.160 to keep whatever is important to you. And I just 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:33.080 got back from the bear Woods and we're camping out. 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.000 My dad and I in public Lands are running around 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:37.320 and I used the Go Box as my camp cook kid. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.560 I put my pots and pans in there. I put 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.960 my Mountain House meals in there. I put all my seasonings, 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.840 all my silverware, plates, bowls, all of that fit perfectly 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:51.920 into the Go Box. And I want to keep that 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:54.600 in there. Keep that in my truck no matter where 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:56.400 I am, where I decided to camp or decided to 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.240 roll around, always have that there. It's you know, jep Oil, 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:03.760 Mountain House, everything in there in the Eddie Gobox, schip 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.480 hit Eddie dot com. Pick that up, man, it's a 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:13.039 great product. You're going to love it, and then we're 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:17.959 gonna talk about Federal Premium ammunition right now, Federal Premium 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:22.000 dot com. There's a bunch of new things coming out 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:26.680 from them, um, but particularly right now, we needed to go. 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:28.600 We had a lot of feedback from you guys about 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.800 Federal t S S turkey AMMO, because boy, did we 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:34.880 kill some turkeys with that thing this year. I watched 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.440 not only myself kill some birds, but you honest but 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:42.520 tell us Stephen Ranella, um, Ryan Callahan, we were all 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.400 we dropped a lot of turkeys with Federal TSS heavyweight 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:49.840 this spring. And a lot of you guys have reacted 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:54.680 to that and asked a few questions exactly. The one 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:56.560 question was how far do you think you can shoot 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.800 with this thing? Well, Man's I would say for sure. 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:05.280 I mean I killed a bird out to past fifty yards. Um, 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.240 I killed birds at forty and I killed him at 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.720 ten and fifteen. And I know the other guys the 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.240 same way. I am very comfortable at forty and fifty 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:17.120 yards with Federal TSS ammunition. And so if you're you're 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:21.160 looking for a very competent what I would refer to 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:23.600 as a long range turkey gun. This is the one. 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:30.919 This is the one that is Federal Heavyweight t s 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:35.320 S at Federal Premium dot Com. All right, now we're 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:38.520 gonna get to this podcast. You're gonna love it. Let's go. 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.720 I guess I grew up on an older road, a 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.480 pedal to the medal. I always did what I told 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:47.880 until I found out that my brand new close a 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.240 game second hand from the rich kids next door. And 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:54.200 I grew up baths. I guess, like what I mean, 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:56.560 they have a thousand things inside of my head I 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.560 wish I ain't seen, and now I just wanted to 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:03.400 real bad dream of being in lack. I'm coming about 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:09.880 of the seams. But thank you, Jack Daniels. Hey, everybody, 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.840 welcome to another episode the Hunt Collective. I'm been O'Brien. 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:17.480 It's gonna air this one with Juleven getting down to 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:22.000 it very season almost over here in Montana. One last 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:25.840 shot at it this weekend, and we're getting getting into 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:27.440 it at the time. I like to pull my bow 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:32.560 out and shooting around. But today is is special podcasts 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.440 for a lot of reasons. About they're always all uh, 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.480 well I work called them, so they're all special me. 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.920 But it's it's coming up on Father's Day. So in 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.640 our opening segment, I have no guests. I just want 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.200 to talk a little bit about my father, our story 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:51.200 together and uh, the story of fathers in in the 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:53.320 hunting culture. I mean, I think it's it's an important 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.560 thing coming up on Father's Day, just to talk about that, 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.360 and UM, I just want to tell you my story 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:00.920 a little bit, and so hopefully he'll stick around for that. 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:06.520 After that, we're gonna get into are one of my 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:10.680 favorite writers of all time, the great and powerful Eddie Nikins. 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.880 And Eddie Nickins is uh a writer for A Field, Stream, Garden, 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.640 a Gun, and many other publications. I met with him 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.560 in his home in North Carolina before. We did a 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:26.120 talk together on hunting ethics, and Eddie is an extremely intelligent, 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.159 thoughtful person man and just a good old Southern boy 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:35.520 to his roots. We talked about his own raising of 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:37.720 of kids outdoors and what he feels like that has 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.400 done for them and for him, and so a great conversation. 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:43.560 Please stick around for that here real real shortly, um, 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.960 and thanks to Eddie for hanging with us. But before 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.720 we get to that, I just want to talk a 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:51.880 little bit about my dad. Because I just just got 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.520 back from some three days in the back country with 0:04:55.560 --> 0:05:00.440 my dad hunting bears in Montana and also spending time 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.760 with my son and my dad and my family altogether. 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:08.960 And it strikes me that, you know, my dad and 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.760 I were walking through the mountains and I said something 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.440 to him was like, if you if I could transport 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:18.560 ten years back in time as I am now and 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.400 talk to myself ten years ago, my ten years ago 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:25.440 self would not have would not believe Would I believe 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.599 me if I told him where my life was today? 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:33.520 In so many ways, living in Montana, you know, having 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.160 a beautiful son and a wife, and having the job 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.960 that I do, and being around the people that I'm around, 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.960 it really has has been an incredible journey. And my 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:49.279 dad just kind of said, you earned it, you know, 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.640 you did it, And that got me to thinking a 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:56.640 lot of things, but it got me to thinking about 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:02.000 his role in all of it. No today, back then, 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:04.640 I started thinking about when I was twelve years old 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.440 and when I first started to desire to go hunting, 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:16.280 and how he shepherded me along and and honestly, I 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:18.520 don't remember the first moment that I thought I might 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.880 want to go hunting. But I just remember always wanted 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.920 to follow my dad, and it's something that he did. Now, 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.680 he didn't do it in the early days of my life. 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:28.960 He didn't do it as much because he was, like 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.919 many fathers, drawn away from hunting to take care of 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.760 his family, to work hard, to build something, to build 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.680 a family. He was drawn away from that. So as 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:40.280 a kid, I didn't get to see him running off 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.240 to go hunting a bunch. He did some, But in fact, 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:47.599 when I was born, my dad was hunting and he 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.240 came back from I don't think of ten days in 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:54.600 the wilderness, um running around, probably drinking beer, hunting deer, 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.200 and went into the delivery room and they made him 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.440 go stand in a little all closet like because he 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:07.200 smelled so bad. They didn't want him in the delivery room. 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.760 And so his what I was born, my dad was hunting. 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:13.240 He was, but he was drawn away from it a 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:17.000 little bit to take care of us, and and I 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:18.840 was able to kind of bring him back into it 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.560 with my own interests early on at you know, at 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.960 the age of ten, eleven, twelve, but twelve years old. 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:30.280 I remember being on this cold garage floor was October, 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.160 being on this cold garage floor with my dad and 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.600 our neighbor Bill Miller, and they were trying to determine 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.320 at what position I could best hold this to forty three, 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.000 the savage one ten and to forty three. I remember 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.680 that like it was yesterday, and I remember going to 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.240 the range and shooting that rifle. I remember my dad 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:53.120 being stressed out about how I could hold it, and 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.559 so he had shooting sticks and we were always messing 0:07:55.560 --> 0:08:01.400 around with those. I remember talking about safety. I remember, 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.640 and these are all things I remember pretty vividly. When 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:06.560 the rest of my life comes in flashes, this is 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:12.320 vivid for me. Um. And at some level I knew 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.080 I didn't know what I was getting into, but I 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.200 knew that I would follow might be following my dad, 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.960 and that was all that matter. And so the other 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:26.840 thing I remember clearly is I had this orange Elmer 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:29.760 Fudd hat with like fuzzy flapped ears, and I had 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:31.760 a cover a pair of coveralls that if I was 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:34.160 wearing them hunting today people would would laugh at me, 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:38.920 but back then they were cool. Um. I remember, who 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:40.440 knows what boots I was wearing, but I was wearing 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.440 these coveralls and they were way too short, so my 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.760 I think my ankles probably showed they were frayed on 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.440 the edges. It was this old, dirty, mossy oak tree 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:55.000 bark deal. My dad would pack sandwiches and toast chee 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:58.120 peanut butter crackers in this little ruck sack, and we 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.880 will go hunt this private land. My first ever experience 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:08.080 with this was was um Maryland's Youth Hunting Day, which 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:12.360 was a week before the opener on a Saturday. It 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:16.760 was rightful, and I remember we lived in the suburbs 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.120 and we had this frosted stone walk that would lead 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.000 to the driveway, and across this frosted stone walk you 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:25.120 could see my neighbor's house. And Bill would be going 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:27.840 with us with a crew of other people. And I 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.240 remember standing on this frosted walking. My dad would be 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.800 in the kitchen making sandwiches, are getting getting things right here, 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:36.959 and and looking over and with so much anticipation to 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:42.319 see the garage door on my neighbor's house open, because 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.360 there was. I was so heightened. I was so ready 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:49.480 to go into something I had really no idea about. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.160 I never seen a deer die, I had never seen 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.600 a deer gutted. I didn't really know what hunting them 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.040 looked like or felt like. But I was going anyway 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:01.760 because my first you know, I was old enough to 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:03.839 understand it. My dad had talked me through it, but 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.000 I didn't really know anything. So it was a different 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.200 kind of excitement. It was a different kind of hunting, 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:14.720 of course, following my dad and I remember, I remember 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:18.840 walking into the woods the first day. I remember how 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:23.440 it fell to be, you know, smaller than him and 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.880 him feeling larger than life, and I just had key 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.440 on his every move, what what he said, what he did, 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:35.880 um how he felt. We didn't kill a deer that day? 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.240 It was. There was a lot of follies And hopefully 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.559 I'll have him on the podcast and maybe Bill Miller 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:45.120 and we'll talk about those follies one day because they're 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.960 pretty funny and I'm so glad to have I'm glad 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.560 to have some of those memories. But it was like 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:55.800 those things that established my love of hunting. And I 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.120 think maybe later down the road, when I've done other 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:01.600 things didn't hunting, my dad has discovered some different things 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.240 as well. So it's a nice it's a nice spin 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:06.880 and it's a nice flip of the coin to have 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.520 to be able to bring him along this week in 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.760 Montana showing show him some of the things I've learned 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.440 over the years after I left the nest as it were, 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:20.800 ran around and did a bunch of things, and bring 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:22.320 him back and show him some of the things that 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.920 I've learned because I wasn't wouldn't be here without him. 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:30.280 I wouldn't be anywhere without him. You know, my mother 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.440 and the rest of our family, but particularly in Honeygo 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:35.679 wouldn't be here without him. He spent a lot of 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.080 time showing me things, and it's still showing me things today. 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:43.440 And we won't hunt together for the rest of our days, 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.440 but the days that we've hunted together, the time we 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.800 have spent together um has introduced me to something that 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.520 is that has changed my life. So so thank you 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.920 to my dad and to everybody else else out there 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.600 listening that has had that experience. I'm sure you feel 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.680 the same way, and I would encourage you just to 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.440 take some time on Father's Day to express that. You know, 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.040 I'm expressing it through podcast for him because my dad, 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.600 I'm sure we'll listen to this, but but I express 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.000 that to your your people, whoever it is that took 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.520 you hunting. If it isn't your dad, whoever was that 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:20.520 that took you hunting, um and allowed you to kind 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.319 of see the world in the way a hunter might 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:29.120 see it. And I guess i'll close just in in general. 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.640 I mean, there's a lot of people out there that 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:33.360 that didn't get the chance to hunt with their dads 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.600 for whatever reason like I have. Maybe you're an adult 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:39.440 onset hunter. Maybe you just got into it. Maybe your 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.680 dad just didn't didn't love it, and you and you 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.679 somehow found it. I met a lot of people that 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.600 have that story. UM, have that story and so continue 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:49.880 to pass it on. I don't think it's got to 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.280 be a father and a son. It could be a 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.240 mentor and a mentee. It could be anything. We talked 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.040 about that a lot on this podcast, and I feel 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:01.679 that strongly that just just taking somebody out you can 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:03.720 stoke their passion. Maybe they won't be into it, but 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.400 you could maybe stoke something that my dad stoked inside 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:11.560 of me to help me along. And UM, I get 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.560 pretty emotional back because it's changed my life. Hunting has 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.880 changed my life in a lot of ways, personally, professionally, 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.880 and on and on we go. So Um, thanks to 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:22.920 my dad. Thanks to all the dads out there for 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:27.679 doing what you do. Um, for for taking someone hunting. 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.880 It means a lot. It means a lot a lot 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.640 to me. And so I'll stop blabbering on. But I 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.600 just wanted to to address Father's Day and my dad. 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:43.120 Freaking love your dad. I love you so much. You're awesome. 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.280 All Right, we're gonna get into the interview portion of 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:51.480 this show, and like I said, it's a great man. 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.640 His name is Edward T. Nikins, and we're gonna talk 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:57.560 about a lot of things. So I'm gonna transport you 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:02.360 over to Raley, North Carolina for a conversation with Eddie T. Nikens. 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:14.080 Enjoy I ard, all is good man? How in your layer? Yeah, 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:18.640 this is the International Headquarters. Whatever happens happens here. I'm 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.800 not sure how much of it is value, but this 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:22.560 is where it gets done. You know, I feel it 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.400 should be dirtier. Well, this is pretty neat and tidy 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.160 in here. It's real. It's real good, you know. Um, 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.080 it's got you got folders with labels on them. I 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:38.000 mean I've got folders, I've got stocks of looming deadlines. Um, 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:42.040 I have a post it notepad here that'll explain the 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.960 relative neatness. It says, one story at a time. This 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:50.560 is a new leaf that I turned over on Monday. 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.920 Let's talk about the new tricks. Yeah, we're a weekend 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.320 on that. Talk to me in a few days. We'll 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.600 check back in. That's a good that's a good reason. 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.480 Guest appearance number two. What else i'd say on your 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.000 posting notes? There anything? Uh? Sorry? At times? More of 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.360 a you know, it's an ideology, Yeah, you know, it's 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.320 sort of I've got this this sort of long term 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.480 project I've been thinking about. I'm calling it an honest 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.880 shrimp man. I love shrimp, and I eat a Polish shrimp, 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.520 and I want to eat shrimp feeling pretty good about it. 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:30.480 You gonna eat shrimp one way or the other, but 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:34.320 I want to eat shrimp healthy conscience. Yeah. Yeah. So 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.600 they're living here in North Carolina, especially in Raleigh. We're 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.400 sort of coastly oriented. I got a little place, and 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.840 I mean a little place down at the coast, and um, 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.800 so we start thinking about those things of sustainable sourced seafood. 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.320 Uh see, yeah, shrimp man, we had a pole of shrimp. 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:55.560 I find it. Yeah, I finally in my life. You know, 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.680 I didn't grow I grew up in western Maryland, which 0:15:57.920 --> 0:15:59.920 you know people think of Maryland, they think of crabs 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.480 in in the chesapike game. We were nowhere near that. 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.240 Um well, it was east west Virginia, you know. We 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.280 that's where That's where I grew up. And so you 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.120 know the furst. You move around the world, you start 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:14.880 to see other you said, think the coastal areas. I mean, 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:19.520 I've heard oyster farms, shrimp, all the resources that are 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.080 on the coast of this country are important to think of. 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.640 And as a hunter, I'm kind of drawing to those 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.520 things from my hunting a big game, small game, whatever, Right, 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:30.640 you start to think of things as a resource. I 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.360 guess that's what I'm saying. And we've got that here. 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.720 I mean the salt water resource on the coast and 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.800 North Carolina with all the seafood. I mean, what's so 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.800 amazing is how how close and personal it is. So 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:43.680 you just pulled up here. I mean, if we you 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:45.480 walk up in my front door and you take a right, 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.800 and you drive two and a half hours and you're 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:54.480 on the longest stretch of uninhabited coastline in Eastern America. 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.800 You turn left and get three hours and three and 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.080 a half hours. You know, you're standing on top the 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.200 highest mountain east of the Mississippi. So when you think 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.560 about what places like this have in the South where 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.560 we sort of straddle these worlds between mountains and coast, 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.480 I mean, there's a mind bogging. The opportunity is is 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.800 just phenomenal, and it's a great it's a great place 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:20.320 to be. Yeah. Now, as a as a ardent advocate 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.200 of the east Eastern seaboard or just the eastern side 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.800 of the country, as we were talking about before they record, 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:27.600 a lot of people put it on me as a 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.160 member of Meat Eat to keep it, keep it even 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:35.720 to continually slip in those Eastern sensibilities to our western 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.640 Bozeman offices. We have a few Midwesterners in there, but nobody, 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:41.879 nobody is strictly from the East until we hired Anton 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.600 Locata And now he's bringing a little uh that New 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:50.520 York flavor, Pennsylvania flavor to the conversation. So we're getting 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.800 it covered. But but that is something that we think about. 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:54.520 It the sensibility. I grew up much and the same 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:56.480 as you're talking about. We lived in western Maryland. But 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:57.879 we could take an hour and a half tribe and 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.639 be at the bay um blue crabs and oysters and 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:05.480 sea ducks and ducks and geese like you wouldn't believe. Um. 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.760 And so yeah, we we understood that there there's not 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.520 a lot of places where you can have those two 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.840 environments in such a short, you know, span of driving. 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.440 You know, I think here a lot of sportsmen tend 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:23.440 to be specialists in generalizing, right or or generalists and specializing. 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:25.440 I'm not sure how that how that would work, but 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.280 you know we do. We do so much. I mean 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:33.320 from Labor Day until March we can hunt. You know, 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:37.240 we have a huge long deer season from early September 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.960 all the way uh to January. So I do think 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:45.840 I do think people tend to live live that lifestyle 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.160 year round, no doubt. But I think this East West thing, 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.160 you know, we we see that in in conservation activism 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:59.879 and politics, UM and advocacy. We see it in terms 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:02.240 of I mean, there is sort of the schism east 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.760 and east and west, you know, but but from the 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.760 eastern perspective, I mean the way the way that I 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:12.280 put it is is the West is critical to every 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.240 hunter and angler in North America, whether you whether you 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:19.160 involve yourself in Western hunting, or whether it's this sort 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.000 of aspirational idea. Right, you know all of the old 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.960 Remington's calendars, the old Winchester calendars, you know, it's this 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:31.600 these big scenes of hunter versus moose or elk or bear. 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.800 You don't see a lot of scrapping with squirrels and 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:40.280 woodcock on those old count Yeah. Yeah, So I think 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.840 it's important from an aspirational perspective. But I think Eastern 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:48.960 US hunters, uh, I still think we're sort of coming 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.360 into our own in terms of telling our own narrative 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:54.320 and telling and telling that story and not feeling like 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.959 it's always got to be the story of Eastern Eastern 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.199 hunters moving west. Well, and you think of about the Southeastern, 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:05.159 you know, you ready for gardening gun. You've written a 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.560 lot about things that are happening in the cultural significance 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:09.960 in the Southeast. When I think of the Southeast, I 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:13.199 think of that culture, right, this real distinct, real flavorful 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:17.000 culture that's aspirational. For that reason, it's not aspirational because 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.440 the big peaks that you might go in or or 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:23.080 we think of like bio diversity of game for hunters, 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.080 it's the culture that kind of wins through. That's why 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:28.760 I feel that, you know, a lot of your reality 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.000 TV shows are based in Louisiana because there's such a 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:34.679 rich culture that you can dig into there. Um. And 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.800 in the West, the visual can sometimes be as aspirational 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.320 as anything, no doubt. And you know, and that that 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:44.560 idea of sort of solo hunting in the West, you know, 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.600 putting yourself against the elements, putting yourself against that that 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.679 big game animal um, I think is fabulous um. And 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.439 we certainly have that. We certainly have that in the East. 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.480 But I think a little bit of lost a little 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:02.959 bit in the conversation or those hunters specifically who enjoy 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.280 the social aspects, you know. I mean, I'm I'm a 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.400 member of a of a hunting club, like a lot 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:08.919 of folks in this part of the world. You know, 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:10.960 we hunt public lands. But you know, I'm a member 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:14.520 of a hunting club. I drive fifty minutes east and 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.520 I've got thirty seven acres in a camp and swamps 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.760 and fields and woods and people that I love being 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.800 outdoors with. And you're a lot of our members they 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.879 probably don't step foot on public lands ever. But they're 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:30.320 a part of this conversation too. They're they're part of 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:33.840 this conservation movement as well. And I think you're right, Ben, 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.040 I think we've got to figure out a way to 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.199 to dovetail these in and celebrate the differences, but you 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:41.560 know a lot of commonalities as well. Yeah, And it's 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:43.440 it's hard I think in this this day and age 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:45.640 in our media space. You know this well that like 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.520 the aspirational in the digital space for sure, the aspirational. 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:53.600 I mean, it's hard to set beside each other like 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.439 a bugling bull elk coming down a ridge and you know, 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:01.280 whitetail walking on a fence row, a six point white 0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:03.600 walking out of South Carolina fence round, you know something 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:06.240 like that. It's hard to put those two deside each other. 0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:08.760 But we have to find ways to do that. Like 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:10.720 I said, I think I think there are certainly in 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.680 roads to to just making sure we're seeing all this perspective, 0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:17.119 as hard as that is to do. Yeah, And I 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.080 think setting them beside each other maybe the maybe the challenge, 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:22.840 you know. I mean, these are each pursuits that are 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:28.080 worthy of their own merits um and so I do think, 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.280 I do think we have to be careful in this industry, 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:34.120 whether it's whether it's media, whether it's advertising, whether it's marketing, 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:39.000 that we we can't forget that that a not everyone 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:44.040 is a back country archer, being not everybody really wants 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:45.800 to be a back country archer. You know, there are 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:47.840 a lot of folks just as soon, you know, follow 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:51.840 their fish dog through the fall woods chasing squirrels, but 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:57.080 they've got as much a connection to our heritage as 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:00.399 any other hunter. Yeah, I think that the I've been 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:03.280 guilty of this a lot of thinking of some of 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:06.840 those heritages and his cultures is like Bubba culture less 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:09.520 intellectual than my culture, or less intellectual in the way 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:11.960 that I, you know, put my pursuits out there, the 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:14.440 way that I think of hunting, And that's some bullshit, 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:17.240 Like it's it's just is. I mean, the the the 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.040 way that our hunting is connected to the whatever you'll 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:24.200 define as Bubba culture, that's as inherent as somebody out 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:26.080 west who grew up on a ranch. I mean, it 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:31.920 just is you know, Bubba Bubba's aren't defined by their 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:36.800 driver's licenses, their their addresses, right. I do think that 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:43.320 this growing interest in intellectualizing our pursuits is going to 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:46.080 make all the boats rise in this tide. And I'm 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:49.359 thrilled to hear and to read and and to be 0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:52.600 a small part of that conversation of some deep thinking 0:23:53.040 --> 0:23:55.399 about what it means to be to be a hunter 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:59.000 and an angler in American society today. Because you know 0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:01.080 a lot of the early deep thinkers, you know, we 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:04.119 hold up Aldo Leopold, you know, as as the patriarch 0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:07.440 of this. You know, while he cut his teeth, well 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:09.920 he cut his teeth actually in the Midwest long before 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:12.560 he went he went out west, um, and when he 0:24:12.560 --> 0:24:16.240 he didn't write much of his Western work until he 0:24:16.280 --> 0:24:19.240 was back on his farm, um in the Midwest. So 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.679 it's an exciting time to be around to think about 0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:28.520 what our sports, what our pursuits, you're gonna look like 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:32.359 in the next thirty fifty years, because in the last 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:34.800 twenty or thirty fifty years then we didn't have these 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:38.000 kinds of conversations. And so I'm excited about that. That's 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:40.120 a little nerve wracking too, to think about the pressures, 0:24:41.040 --> 0:24:45.200 there's no doubt, but it's it's fun and it's exciting, 0:24:45.240 --> 0:24:47.480 and it's a positive that we're all kind of grappling 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:49.119 with this. Yeah, and I think you said it right. 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:53.120 It's a conversation, right, I saw. I so often get 0:24:53.160 --> 0:24:55.240 people that will say, like, you didn't debate that guy 0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:57.320 hard enough for you didn't. Well, we talked about a 0:24:57.280 --> 0:25:01.040 lot of contentious issues on the show, and I purposefully, 0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:04.040 for whatever reason, I'm insane. Like if I see something 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:07.280 I think it's fraught with you know, entanglements and some 0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:09.960 perils of our modern ways of thinking, I run towards 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.480 it and try to figure it out. That puts me 0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:15.560 in a lot of crappy situations. But I think it 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:19.040 also elevates that we can have these conversations. We can have, 0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:22.080 you know, we can take an issue that we didn't 0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:24.720 my like my dad's generation didn't think about or didn't 0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:27.760 vocalize if they were thinking about it, um, and have 0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:32.919 that outright and and say this, you know, baiting or 0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:35.560 you know whatever. You could just pick any of any 0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:39.240 many subjects. Um, let's say we can have this conversation. 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:40.960 And it's the fact that we have the conversation that 0:25:41.000 --> 0:25:43.320 will help us get down the road in ten, fifteen, 0:25:43.359 --> 0:25:46.320 twenty years just to a comfortable place. If we ever 0:25:46.359 --> 0:25:49.720 get there. But it's the openness that and especially now 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:52.840 as so much emphasis is going towards our three and 0:25:52.920 --> 0:25:56.840 bringing on new hunters and new kinds of hunters, which 0:25:57.119 --> 0:26:01.240 I fully support, and that's fabulous and I'm and I'm 0:26:01.280 --> 0:26:05.280 thrilled to see some success in that. But you know, 0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:11.440 we exist within this ecosystem of heritage in history, and 0:26:11.680 --> 0:26:14.560 you and I can think about sporting ethics and it's 0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:18.480 just sort of second nature, right. We think about not crossing, 0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:21.320 and this is an ethical thing, but not crossing offense 0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:23.320 with a gun in your hand. You know, we don't 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:27.440 even never occurs to us to deal with those kinds 0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:29.359 of issues. You know, when you and I were coming up, 0:26:30.600 --> 0:26:33.000 I mean I remember that the little cartoons of the 0:26:33.000 --> 0:26:37.040 Ten Commandments of guns very yeah, you know, I remember 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:39.800 black and white ILOs and the first one was, you know, 0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:43.679 was muzzle control. Don't point your gun at anything you 0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:46.600 don't intend to shoot. Right. Well, I want to sound 0:26:46.640 --> 0:26:51.080 like kids today, but kids today are raised from the 0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:56.560 age of insanely young to point a gun and shoot 0:26:57.520 --> 0:26:59.840 at the TV screen at the video games. I'm not 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:03.159 to go down that route, but but I'm fully convinced 0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:06.680 that we're seeing that ramifications. Now we're bringing in these 0:27:06.720 --> 0:27:11.240 new hunters and we need them, we want them, but 0:27:11.359 --> 0:27:13.800 they don't have a little bit of a d n 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:20.040 A of what it means ethically and responsibility um to 0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:22.320 be a part of this tribe. Yeah, and there's like 0:27:22.359 --> 0:27:24.800 a I always think about it. I've been thinking lately 0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:28.159 about baselines, Like where when I came into hunting, what 0:27:28.240 --> 0:27:31.560 was the baseline of expectation for me or for anyone 0:27:31.640 --> 0:27:34.879 around me? Like how we set that baseline? How do 0:27:35.000 --> 0:27:37.000 we shift it? Move it up? I mean, we'd like 0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:39.840 to always be moving forward, but that baseline is safer 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:42.560 and more responsible and more ethical, more thoughtful, more intelligent, 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:44.119 all the all the things you'd want to be as 0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:46.680 a human or a hunter or whatever. But I think 0:27:46.680 --> 0:27:52.520 about the baseline of or say, kind of at the 0:27:52.560 --> 0:27:55.080 peak of growth of hunting, where we were, where our 0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:58.080 baseline for what's acceptament? And then where we are now 0:27:58.119 --> 0:28:00.159 and where we might be when my son is is 0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:03.080 twenty five or you know, in twenty some years, when 0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:05.240 he's that's where he is. So I wonder about that 0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:07.200 baseline where how do you how have you seen it change? 0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:09.960 I mean, it's it's a certainly always changing. It's just 0:28:10.000 --> 0:28:13.480 a perspective thing. But there there is a perceived baseline there. 0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:16.719 I mean I think there is a perceived baseline. I 0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:19.920 think it was it was just sort of the coin 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:22.080 of the realm when we were growing up. You know, 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:26.080 if you hunted, if you fished, you were handed down 0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:29.160 these traditions, and so there was a bit of an 0:28:29.160 --> 0:28:33.800 indoctrination process from your elders. Right. So so the challenge 0:28:33.840 --> 0:28:37.440 that we face today, and the opportunity as well, is 0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:43.080 when that in doctor nation phase is taken out of equation, 0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:45.920 you know, what do we do? You know, I see 0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:48.920 this at our hunting club down east, right. So my 0:28:49.000 --> 0:28:52.480 son is just getting ready to turn twenty. So when 0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:55.240 we joined that club, there were probably four or five 0:28:55.640 --> 0:29:01.080 members there, parents and kids, and they came into hunting. 0:29:01.320 --> 0:29:05.120 The dads had never hunted in their life. I never 0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:08.560 thought they would hunt, could have cared less about learning 0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:13.080 how to hunt, but their sons wanted it so badly 0:29:14.280 --> 0:29:16.640 that what that how what happened is is they were 0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:19.360 willing to learn to help their son reach their passion 0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:21.200 or their or their daughter reach their passion. And so 0:29:21.280 --> 0:29:26.440 what we're seeing is younger generations reaching up and pulling 0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:29.120 older generations into our tradition. It's a d eighty degree 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:32.720 flip from what you and I saw. And so that's 0:29:32.720 --> 0:29:36.200 an enormous opportunity and I think it's a fleeting opportunity 0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:38.600 and one who really need to take advantage of right now. 0:29:39.440 --> 0:29:44.080 But it also is the challenge of when we've got now, 0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:47.080 we've got young hunters and old hunters, and neither one 0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:50.920 of them really understand, right they don't really understand through 0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:52.680 no fault to their own with the North American model 0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:55.640 of wildlife conservation is they shared it and grow up, 0:29:56.040 --> 0:30:00.000 you know, looking at the Ten Commandments of gun safety cartoons, um, 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:03.240 the block of fur fishing game magazine. So that's that's 0:30:03.240 --> 0:30:04.920 the plate we have set in front of us, right 0:30:04.960 --> 0:30:07.160 And I think that's why when we talk about making 0:30:07.160 --> 0:30:12.520 sure we've we've thought through and presented all the perspectives east, west, north, whatever, 0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:15.720 that's important because people are gonna Hunting is such a 0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:20.800 culturally varied thing that we do. It's impossible to line 0:30:20.840 --> 0:30:22.360 it up for somebody say this is what it is, 0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:24.400 because they're always going to run into something they didn't 0:30:24.560 --> 0:30:27.000 that was outside their pur view when they learned whether 0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:29.280 they're forty five when they learned, or their ten when 0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:31.600 they learned, They're always going to run into something. And 0:30:31.600 --> 0:30:35.240 that's why you know, we're gonna um do a little 0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:37.400 talk later on for the b h A group here 0:30:37.400 --> 0:30:40.520 and Raleigh, and a lot of it will be about that, 0:30:40.560 --> 0:30:43.720 Like we're there is no way that you can go 0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:46.520 hunting and not be faced with some sort of like 0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:53.000 internal crisis. Yeah, whether there's someone with you or you're 0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:56.680 by yourself, whatever, you get to make a decision of 0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:58.960 do I do this thing or not? And it's got 0:30:59.000 --> 0:31:03.440 fairly grave circule stances attached to it. And a lot 0:31:03.480 --> 0:31:05.440 of those decisions are being made a bit in a 0:31:05.520 --> 0:31:09.440 vacuum right now, or maybe they weren't um in earlier 0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:12.440 generations where there was just sort of the more more 0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:17.160 context I guess, um. But again, I'm just I am 0:31:17.240 --> 0:31:19.920 stoked that these kinds of conversation is the one you 0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:21.719 and I are having right now, when we're gonna have 0:31:22.480 --> 0:31:25.760 later um at this at this ethics forum. They're they're 0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:28.360 just they're taking place more and more often. But I'd 0:31:28.360 --> 0:31:32.080 like to I'd like to see within the industry and 0:31:32.280 --> 0:31:36.800 effort to to to reach out to some of the 0:31:36.840 --> 0:31:41.120 two clubs organizations and and help them understand why we 0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:46.480 don't want to necessarily codify sporting ethics for everyone. This 0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:49.080 is a This is a conversation that needs to take place, 0:31:49.080 --> 0:31:50.760 and needs to take place more than you know, the 0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:53.920 few minutes you're gonna get in a hunter education course. Yeah, yeah, 0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:56.239 and it's it. And just to frame it up for 0:31:56.320 --> 0:31:58.880 folks somehow, like at least try to set it up 0:31:58.920 --> 0:32:00.760 in a way that like, here is how you can 0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:04.240 make your decisions if you're wondering maybe a good way 0:32:04.240 --> 0:32:06.720 to get from from Oh I have a bow in 0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:09.120 my hand. Oh there's a deer too. I'm sending an arrow. 0:32:09.960 --> 0:32:12.520 Like how do you get you know, from A to 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:14.600 B two B to see it on on down the road? 0:32:14.760 --> 0:32:17.480 Like I never had that. I made a lot of 0:32:17.480 --> 0:32:20.160 crappy decisions because I didn't never have it. So if 0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:22.000 we could somehow provide it the folks, I think that 0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:25.320 would be you know, beneficial. But how do we do it? 0:32:25.840 --> 0:32:27.800 What's the way to do it? Well? I mean, I 0:32:27.840 --> 0:32:31.320 think it comes from strong mentors, you know, in folks 0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:34.440 stepping up and stepping out. Um, but it's tough. It's 0:32:34.440 --> 0:32:38.440 tough to look at your buddy and go, really, yeah, 0:32:38.760 --> 0:32:42.760 fifty yards shot two or fifty yards shot? Hundred and 0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:45.760 seventy five yards shot and it's the only shot you're 0:32:45.760 --> 0:32:48.360 gonna take all year long with a rifle. You getting 0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:51.120 picked up from last year? What are you thinking? Yeah, 0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:53.800 you're that's so, that's a hundred percent. I had We 0:32:53.840 --> 0:32:56.640 had a guy come up at BJ and say, my buddies, 0:32:56.840 --> 0:33:00.440 I'm hunting with my buddy. He's a bit of a like, 0:33:00.520 --> 0:33:04.280 he just wants to he's doing it for the Graham 0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:06.280 and he is. I'm uncomfortab hunting with him just because 0:33:06.280 --> 0:33:07.640 of the way that I see that he acts and 0:33:07.720 --> 0:33:10.760 kind of the results of his actions. And my first 0:33:11.120 --> 0:33:13.040 reaction is like, well then just just don't go with 0:33:13.120 --> 0:33:16.080 him anymore. Um, he said, wasn't my best friend? I said, well, 0:33:16.200 --> 0:33:18.160 you're in the you're one of the only folks in 0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:21.960 a situation to set this ship straight. But it ain't 0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:26.280 gonna be comfortable at all. Um, but you're one of 0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:27.880 the only folks I could probably go through like you're 0:33:27.920 --> 0:33:30.479 one of my best friends and you're acting like this 0:33:30.520 --> 0:33:34.480 isn't the way to go. Um, that's tough, man. Nobody 0:33:34.480 --> 0:33:37.520 wants to nanny another fun or and I don't want 0:33:37.520 --> 0:33:39.080 to if everybody came up to me and said, hey, 0:33:39.680 --> 0:33:43.960 we're like, get peace, get out of here. Man. Yeah, 0:33:44.080 --> 0:33:47.080 I have a podcast, you know, many people. There's only 0:33:47.360 --> 0:33:50.760 a thousand of us standing in this room of a 0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:55.360 thousand people. But it's tough, you know. I don't hesitate 0:33:55.560 --> 0:33:59.680 ever to tell someone when they've pointed their gun muzzle 0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:03.600 at me. Hunt right, I've made that decision long ago. 0:34:04.040 --> 0:34:07.320 Just say hey, you know, I just want you to 0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:09.240 know what you did. And let's you know, because I'm 0:34:09.080 --> 0:34:10.920 I'm sure I've done it, done it to others, and 0:34:10.960 --> 0:34:12.720 I want people to point it out to me. Although 0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:15.960 I try to think that I'm always aware of moz, 0:34:17.840 --> 0:34:21.040 so it's it's not a far step to go to 0:34:21.080 --> 0:34:25.000 the next level and go, okay, when I see behaviors that, 0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:30.120 let's don't say they're questionable. Let's let's certainly don't say 0:34:30.120 --> 0:34:34.640 they're wrong, but they demand thoughtful reflection. How do you 0:34:34.800 --> 0:34:37.800 how do you approach that? You know that the hunters 0:34:37.840 --> 0:34:40.200 who who I mean? And I hear it all the time. 0:34:40.400 --> 0:34:43.279 Oh it's two d yards shy. I just thought give 0:34:43.280 --> 0:34:46.279 it a crack, you know, and I missed, you know, 0:34:46.640 --> 0:34:49.880 there's a much higher chance that you actually wounded that 0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:55.000 dear than you ever missed that dear, and so thinking 0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:58.279 of it in those terms may help. But it is 0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:01.920 tough to wag that finger and go, we need to 0:35:01.960 --> 0:35:03.879 do it my way, right, That's what we're gonna talk 0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:06.359 about tonight. But it is a tough sea. It's tough. 0:35:06.440 --> 0:35:09.799 I you know, I get I think I personally get 0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:11.759 it a lot or people. So how who are you 0:35:12.560 --> 0:35:15.560 to talk about that? I said, I'm no, I'm nobody. 0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:20.520 I literally am nobody. But I would I would like 0:35:20.600 --> 0:35:23.480 to think that that just by bringing it up and 0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:28.200 allowing you the opportunity to disagree with me on these things, 0:35:28.880 --> 0:35:31.879 that we're starting some some sort of new dialogue as 0:35:31.920 --> 0:35:34.759 to how we get to the endpoint Like who am I? 0:35:35.040 --> 0:35:37.640 I'm I'm just the guy bringing it up. You know, 0:35:37.680 --> 0:35:39.839 hopefully more folks want to continue to bring it up 0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:42.400 in their circles. But I think to your point, if 0:35:42.440 --> 0:35:44.600 you're the guy in the group that is kind of 0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:47.560 the arbiter of some of these situations and you're seeing 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:50.960 and respected as that, you then internalize that and become 0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:53.520 more ethically yourself. I feel like you have to. You're 0:35:53.560 --> 0:35:55.880 thinking of well, if I'm going to be the guy 0:35:56.080 --> 0:35:58.320 who's saying watch your muzzle, I better damn well watch 0:35:58.360 --> 0:36:00.800 my muzzle. Um, and I'm in the woods, so I 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:03.240 think it. There's there's a kind of a dual effect 0:36:03.239 --> 0:36:05.799 to having that position. And this is a bit of 0:36:05.800 --> 0:36:10.239 a modern construct as well, because we're all hesitant to 0:36:10.400 --> 0:36:13.040 hurt anyone's feelings and to be considered. You know, they 0:36:13.120 --> 0:36:16.640 know it all, you know, back in the day, you know, 0:36:16.719 --> 0:36:21.880 the deer camps of your you know, old old old 0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:26.279 Ben didn't mind a bit busting your chops if if, 0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:28.839 if you did something that that was untoward. And so 0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:31.440 maybe there's a little bit of that as well. But 0:36:31.480 --> 0:36:35.360 it's a matter of framing this in a modern way, 0:36:35.880 --> 0:36:38.880 like we're all we all understand through social media and 0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:42.920 everything else, that hunting is under a brighter spotlight, and 0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:45.680 so it's on its incumbents on all of us, you me, 0:36:45.840 --> 0:36:48.640 as experienced as we are, to look at how we 0:36:48.760 --> 0:36:51.000 approached this and some of the decisions we've made and 0:36:51.120 --> 0:36:55.000 just ask ourselves, is there a way to improve, Is 0:36:55.000 --> 0:36:57.160 there a way to is there a way to have 0:36:57.960 --> 0:37:01.279 a more thoughtful approach to hunting and fishing? Yeah, No, 0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:04.520 I mean I had high situation turkey hunting here not 0:37:04.560 --> 0:37:06.840 long ago, where I had a brain new shotgun that 0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:10.600 was came from weather Be Incorporated. That's a sponsor alert. 0:37:10.640 --> 0:37:14.480 That's uh, the new A ten I that's that they 0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:20.040 gave me to use as a fantastic shotgun. These just 0:37:20.080 --> 0:37:23.359 pull a star. That's industry talk, guys before we get 0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:26.440 free stuff. Um well, I had it and I just 0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:28.200 didn't take the time to put a sling on it. 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:31.520 And then as I'm walking around with another person in 0:37:31.560 --> 0:37:34.399 the woods, I realized without a sling, there's all these 0:37:34.440 --> 0:37:39.440 other ways to hold a shotgun that that caused a 0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:42.759 lot of muzzle control issues. And as I'm walking around 0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:44.279 with it in my hand, just holding a kind of 0:37:44.320 --> 0:37:46.680 horizontal to the comparallel to the ground. As I'm walking, 0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:50.160 I realized, somebody walks in front of me, I'm immediately 0:37:50.160 --> 0:37:52.920 doing that. So if I hold it against my shoulder, 0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:55.399 if somebody's behind me to the left, especially if you're 0:37:55.400 --> 0:37:57.560 in you know, out in the west where people are 0:37:57.560 --> 0:38:01.160 different elevations, you're walking nick kind of whether you're hunting partners. 0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:03.000 So I realized, like, hey, if I had a sling, 0:38:03.920 --> 0:38:06.239 I kind of know this thing stable. I know where 0:38:06.280 --> 0:38:08.920 the barrel is pointed. So sometimes I just realized walking 0:38:08.960 --> 0:38:11.560 around I was still, you know what, I feel safe 0:38:11.560 --> 0:38:13.600 with my muzzle. But I just feel like, oh, that's 0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:15.840 one little step that I can do to make sure 0:38:16.200 --> 0:38:18.360 that I don't have eight different ways to carry this 0:38:18.560 --> 0:38:22.680 shotgun that are comfortable on long totes. So you know. 0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:25.120 And actually, in the last hunt I did this year, 0:38:25.120 --> 0:38:26.880 I just carried I don't even load it. I just 0:38:26.920 --> 0:38:29.160 carried it with the action open because I'm like, it's 0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:31.239 just there's too many variables here. I'm just not gonna 0:38:31.239 --> 0:38:36.840 do it. Um. And truthfully, these are these are almost 0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:39.919 the easy questions, right, I mean they're they're the ones 0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:41.839 that are fraggt because we're talking about guns safe to hear. 0:38:41.880 --> 0:38:46.680 But when we move into the real ethical conundrums of 0:38:46.680 --> 0:38:49.839 of the aesthetics of the hunt versus the ethics of 0:38:49.880 --> 0:38:56.440 the hunt, um, it's it's thorny, stoney ground, Yeah it is. 0:38:56.760 --> 0:39:03.040 And it's I'm I've been inheartened by people's people listen 0:39:03.040 --> 0:39:05.400 to this thing. Every week. I often bring up some 0:39:05.440 --> 0:39:07.560 of the same issues with different people, and that's I 0:39:07.560 --> 0:39:11.200 think that's the idea is to collect perspectives from around 0:39:11.239 --> 0:39:15.160 the country of people that are various expertises and skill 0:39:15.280 --> 0:39:17.239 levels of of what it really means to them, Like 0:39:17.320 --> 0:39:19.480 what what is this to to someone sitting in North 0:39:19.480 --> 0:39:22.440 Carolina as opposed to someone sitting in Texas as opposed 0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:26.759 to I Mean, there's such a tapestry of perspective that 0:39:26.800 --> 0:39:29.799 you can go pick from. And if you can really 0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:32.319 understand that that you and I go hunting, there might 0:39:32.320 --> 0:39:34.040 be some things that I do, do you think are unsafe? 0:39:34.040 --> 0:39:36.120 Have been doing my whole life, and they're they're folks 0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:39.600 out west that just that's just what you do. Um, 0:39:39.640 --> 0:39:41.799 So it's good to just have that in your mind 0:39:41.840 --> 0:39:45.399 and just try to try to judge a situation rather 0:39:45.440 --> 0:39:48.880 than just you know, always bring your own perspectives to it. 0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:50.960 That certainly helped me. And even like I said, even 0:39:50.960 --> 0:39:54.239 this year, I've I just realized a few things are like, Okay, 0:39:54.280 --> 0:39:58.399 each year I'm gonna learn something, hopefully learn many things. Yeah, 0:39:58.440 --> 0:40:00.960 we can't approach this thinking that we got it all 0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:06.560 all figured out. I Mean, every new technology brings another 0:40:06.960 --> 0:40:11.319 ethical quandary, and that's like there's never there's never been 0:40:11.320 --> 0:40:14.960 a time we're like we've been able to hunt. It's 0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:18.320 it's never been undisturbed, it's never been unmoved or always 0:40:18.320 --> 0:40:20.560 moving it well, and it seems like we're always moving 0:40:20.600 --> 0:40:22.360 it forward. Some of us like to move it back 0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:25.440 when we take a recurve bell or a self boll out, 0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:27.160 we were trying to move it back to where it was. 0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:32.000 But that baseline is always shifting around always technology does 0:40:32.040 --> 0:40:34.600 it are in personal feelings towards what we're doing to it. 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:38.040 That's we're all it's always moving, it's moving underneath us 0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:41.759 as we go. Um. And that's something that I've I've 0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:44.879 certainly come to know and learn. It's like it's if 0:40:44.880 --> 0:40:47.000 you if you think it's all like you're you're going 0:40:47.080 --> 0:40:49.279 to be the center point of the activity, you're wrong 0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:51.560 and you're always going to be either moving with it 0:40:51.640 --> 0:40:54.680 or against it. Yeah, and what the it is is important, right. 0:40:54.719 --> 0:40:57.680 I mean, I do think in this this modern period 0:40:57.920 --> 0:41:01.759 where there's so much emphasis on of self actualization and 0:41:01.880 --> 0:41:06.480 you're doing the right thing for you and don't worry 0:41:06.520 --> 0:41:09.400 about if it's the right thing for anyone else, and 0:41:09.520 --> 0:41:11.200 I think I think some of that can creep into 0:41:11.200 --> 0:41:15.400 sporting ethics as well. That I'm making this decision because 0:41:15.400 --> 0:41:18.320 it's right for me at this particular point in time, 0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:23.080 and none of these externalities really entering the equation. Well, 0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:26.640 I applaud that sort of individualistic streak. You know, the 0:41:26.680 --> 0:41:32.200 heritage of sporting ethics does not. There's not in when 0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:34.520 you look at Aldo Leopold's writing, and some of his 0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:37.240 quotes are are the ones that are that are used 0:41:37.280 --> 0:41:40.000 to sort of underscore this notion of you now you 0:41:40.000 --> 0:41:46.640 are alone, your behavior when you are alone? Is is 0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:50.799 that the defining aspect of sporting ethics? But but in 0:41:50.880 --> 0:41:52.960 his later writings he went on to really sort of 0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:58.279 evolve that perspective that that ethics only exist in a 0:41:58.480 --> 0:42:02.879 in a community of other perspectives. Um and I think 0:42:03.040 --> 0:42:05.799 I think we're definitely seeing that these days and the 0:42:05.920 --> 0:42:08.279 ramifications of that in our in our passion right there 0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:11.400 only wordy when compared to one another, like it's it's 0:42:11.400 --> 0:42:13.359 this thing I'm doing is okay for me, and you're 0:42:13.360 --> 0:42:14.919 doing it over here, and there's a hundred other people 0:42:14.960 --> 0:42:18.680 that are appalled by it. Like that's only that comparison 0:42:18.760 --> 0:42:22.200 is important, right, It's important for all of us to understand, 0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:25.040 you know. That's that's where he gets sticky at at 0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:29.120 somebody email me email in the other day about you know, 0:42:29.400 --> 0:42:32.120 is the discussion that I've been having muddying the waters? 0:42:32.200 --> 0:42:35.600 Like is this the presentation of is it legal or illegal? Well, 0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:39.319 if it's if it's legal, it's a different conversation. If 0:42:39.320 --> 0:42:42.279 it's made have been made to be illegal, you just 0:42:42.320 --> 0:42:44.400 don't do it. That's how this works. We've kind of 0:42:44.560 --> 0:42:48.600 we have a social contract that says, right, we've construct 0:42:48.600 --> 0:42:52.840 a way to act that the illegal is by default 0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:56.000 un ethical now and then and that's where it's like, well, 0:42:56.040 --> 0:42:58.440 that's muddy in the waters. That's not always true. As 0:42:58.600 --> 0:43:03.320 look this this we've already we've already admitted this conversation 0:43:03.320 --> 0:43:07.320 to be almost impossibly entangled. Let's not let's not entangle 0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:11.240 it further by. We're looking at state by state laws 0:43:11.280 --> 0:43:13.239 and seeing if if we feel in the modern sense, 0:43:13.239 --> 0:43:15.920 they're ethical. We we just let's I understand that that 0:43:16.040 --> 0:43:18.080 is a reality. Let's leave it off the table for now. 0:43:18.520 --> 0:43:20.799 So there's just there's you know, folks that would want 0:43:20.800 --> 0:43:22.319 to work on the edges. But there's so much like 0:43:22.360 --> 0:43:24.320 this conversation that's kind of like right down the middle, 0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:26.359 like what the hell are you doing? How are people 0:43:26.400 --> 0:43:28.399 reacting to it, and at the end of the day 0:43:28.400 --> 0:43:31.640 you feel comfortable with what you've done. You know, and 0:43:31.640 --> 0:43:34.160 and feel feel that it's good and right, and a 0:43:34.160 --> 0:43:36.080 lot of the stuff, Like I tell my kids, you know, 0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:39.600 if you if you do a decent job of bringing 0:43:39.719 --> 0:43:44.200 up your children, they get to the age to where 0:43:46.440 --> 0:43:50.640 the discussion isn't what was the right way to behave 0:43:50.800 --> 0:43:52.839 and what was the wrong way to behave? I mean 0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:57.880 we at some point the discussion is what did you choose? 0:43:59.280 --> 0:44:01.880 Which road did you go down? And why? You know, 0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:05.759 a lot of these things, even with the hunting, I 0:44:05.760 --> 0:44:08.759 think if people understood the broader context, a lot of 0:44:08.800 --> 0:44:12.160 these real sticky issues. You know, it's shooting at long ranges, 0:44:12.160 --> 0:44:14.200 which is which is not an issue at all if 0:44:14.239 --> 0:44:16.360 you have the skills to do it. Um. But a 0:44:16.360 --> 0:44:18.799 lot of these things will sort of go by the 0:44:18.840 --> 0:44:23.120 waist or we'll we'll handle them, um in a meaningful 0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:27.520 way with a little bit more discussion and understanding UM. 0:44:27.560 --> 0:44:32.120 Because you know, most of the time, when you're an adult, 0:44:33.360 --> 0:44:37.200 it's not a matter of knowing what's right and wrong right, 0:44:37.239 --> 0:44:40.880 it's it's having the guts and gumption to choose the 0:44:40.960 --> 0:44:44.520 right thing when you really, really, really I want to 0:44:44.520 --> 0:44:50.120 shoot that bucket fo Yeah, and then when it becomes 0:44:50.120 --> 0:44:52.360 something different than what it really is, it's just a 0:44:52.400 --> 0:44:56.080 living breathing thing that you intend to like. It's a 0:44:56.120 --> 0:44:57.640 really it's we we talked about it in a lot 0:44:57.680 --> 0:45:00.080 of ways. It's a resource, it's this, it's that, But 0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:01.839 it's really when it comes down to, it's a living 0:45:01.920 --> 0:45:06.279 breathing being standing across from you somewhere. And I know 0:45:06.360 --> 0:45:09.800 you agree with me on this. You know, I don't harvest. 0:45:10.760 --> 0:45:13.520 I mean, I kill animals, you know, I think there's 0:45:13.520 --> 0:45:15.840 a level of honesty. And you've talked about this. We 0:45:15.840 --> 0:45:17.560 don't need necessarily go down that road, but I do 0:45:17.640 --> 0:45:22.439 think that helps us understand the sort of level of responsibility. Yeah, 0:45:22.440 --> 0:45:23.879 and I think if we can get to We've had 0:45:23.960 --> 0:45:27.200 I've had a lot of these same conversations around women 0:45:27.200 --> 0:45:31.440 and hunting, around you know, how we speak about how 0:45:31.480 --> 0:45:36.200 what we call ourselves sportsmen's sports, women's sports, people, Like, 0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:38.040 a lot of people are all spun up on this 0:45:38.160 --> 0:45:40.000 right now, what we call ourselves, you know, what's the 0:45:40.000 --> 0:45:44.120 proper name to call our community? Um, it's all I 0:45:44.160 --> 0:45:45.879 think it's a good point to say, it's all about 0:45:45.920 --> 0:45:48.480 kind of getting to what what's really I think the 0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:51.279 greatest society expects us to be honest with them, but 0:45:51.440 --> 0:45:53.360 what we're doing and I and we you and I 0:45:53.400 --> 0:45:55.600 both know like say, not to be labor, but that 0:45:55.680 --> 0:45:59.480 the harvest thing came from a re like I'm a 0:45:59.560 --> 0:46:03.319 remark kidding of what we're doing, not you know, not 0:46:03.440 --> 0:46:06.200 a real sense of being truly honest with what what 0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:11.279 we're pursuing. And so I say, let's move this conversation 0:46:12.280 --> 0:46:16.200 as a as an industry into helping people understand why 0:46:16.239 --> 0:46:21.000 we do this and what we're doing so we can 0:46:21.080 --> 0:46:25.640 be honest and say we're taking a life to give life. 0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:30.399 And this is why, Um, I've never have you ever 0:46:30.480 --> 0:46:34.279 had you know, I've become the the guy at the 0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:37.960 dinner party that if there's a vegan there, they set 0:46:38.040 --> 0:46:40.960 him by me, or like you know, I'm always hey, 0:46:41.080 --> 0:46:43.640 this guy's a hunter, tell him why, you know, to 0:46:43.760 --> 0:46:47.080 become the that guy, And um, I don't mind it. 0:46:47.120 --> 0:46:50.160 I like it. But at you know, at some level, 0:46:50.280 --> 0:46:53.000 that's that's where we are, Like we have all of 0:46:53.040 --> 0:46:55.880 us have the opportunity to some of us more than others, 0:46:56.440 --> 0:47:00.680 you know, tell that story and and it seem like 0:47:01.600 --> 0:47:04.359 mental masturbation to be having these conversations over and over 0:47:04.400 --> 0:47:06.120 and over again. But each time you do it, you 0:47:06.239 --> 0:47:09.560 just like sharpening a knife. Like when someone asked you 0:47:09.600 --> 0:47:13.000 a very tough but obvious question, you should you should 0:47:13.040 --> 0:47:15.960 have a very simple answer for it. You know, why 0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:23.080 do you kill things? O? Um, eating him? But why 0:47:23.080 --> 0:47:24.960 do you go off for ten days? And like why 0:47:25.000 --> 0:47:27.520 are you so that there's this like cascade of questions 0:47:27.560 --> 0:47:29.439 that someone who doesn't understand what you're doing could ask, 0:47:29.840 --> 0:47:31.719 could answer you or ask you. And I think your 0:47:31.760 --> 0:47:35.400 answers inform how much you've really thought about it. I 0:47:35.400 --> 0:47:37.560 think a lot of us, me included, for a lot 0:47:37.600 --> 0:47:39.520 of years, didn't really think about it all that much 0:47:39.719 --> 0:47:41.279 and weren't ever asked to think about it all that 0:47:41.400 --> 0:47:44.120 much because for a lot of us, it was just 0:47:45.280 --> 0:47:49.080 what a lot of other people did. There. We're raising 0:47:49.200 --> 0:47:52.799 kids in the city. So we're here in Raleigh, UM, 0:47:52.840 --> 0:47:54.560 a pretty big city. Yeah, we should set it up. 0:47:54.560 --> 0:47:58.319 You have a son and a daughter, uh, Jack and Markey. 0:47:58.719 --> 0:48:04.359 My son is about it turned twenty. My daughter Marky Man, 0:48:04.360 --> 0:48:07.640 I'm going to get this right. She's twenty. She's about 0:48:07.640 --> 0:48:10.640 to turn twenty three. Um, all of them here in 0:48:10.640 --> 0:48:13.760 the next in the next month, Yeah, and so and 0:48:13.760 --> 0:48:16.439 and Markey is not hunt and Jack is like deep 0:48:16.440 --> 0:48:19.440 in hunting and fishing. Jack is deep in hunting and fishing. 0:48:19.960 --> 0:48:23.560 Marky does not hunt. I took market hunting plenty when 0:48:23.600 --> 0:48:26.840 she was young. Um, and I've written about this. And 0:48:26.920 --> 0:48:30.720 she was totally enamored of the hole in the tree 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:33.200 stand and watching. But you know she was gonna be 0:48:33.239 --> 0:48:39.120 watching at Bobcat hanging out on the log right. Um. 0:48:39.200 --> 0:48:43.400 And so it became pretty clear fairly early that hunting 0:48:43.440 --> 0:48:47.320 and fishing weren't her things. But since my whole family 0:48:47.560 --> 0:48:50.239 we camped and we backpacked and them and you can 0:48:50.280 --> 0:48:53.399 see him, it was just this whole environment is what 0:48:53.440 --> 0:48:56.879 they what they grew up in. She and I had 0:48:56.920 --> 0:49:01.120 this whole other life as a journalist, a sort of. Um. 0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:03.799 I'm a contribute editor for Audubon Magazine, and I've done 0:49:03.800 --> 0:49:06.480 a lot of work in Central America. For some reason, 0:49:06.640 --> 0:49:11.720 although I speak zero Spanish, for seven or eight years, 0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:14.280 I had a lot of work, uh in Central America 0:49:14.280 --> 0:49:17.520 for Audubon magazine. And so, whereas Jack was always going 0:49:17.600 --> 0:49:20.640 hunting and fishing with me, I hauled Marquis to the 0:49:20.680 --> 0:49:25.200 most god awful places in Costa Rica and Honduras and 0:49:25.320 --> 0:49:29.880 even north into northern Quebec and so and I firmly 0:49:29.920 --> 0:49:33.239 believed that she was able to enjoy that and appreciate 0:49:33.360 --> 0:49:36.000 that and make that a part of her life because 0:49:37.480 --> 0:49:39.880 she grew up sort of with the rigors of camping 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:42.600 and with with with getting up early and going hunting. 0:49:42.600 --> 0:49:47.120 And I remember one of the few times when as parents, 0:49:47.320 --> 0:49:49.840 Julie and I would look at ourselves and we'd say 0:49:50.560 --> 0:49:52.840 we did a good thing was we were picking to 0:49:52.840 --> 0:49:55.160 go somewhere. I can't even remember where it was. Um, 0:49:55.160 --> 0:49:57.120 and Mark was upstairs. She was a little she was 0:49:57.160 --> 0:49:59.759 a little little slip of girl, and she hollered down 0:49:59.840 --> 0:50:04.200 from upstairs, Mommy, am I gonna pepee inside or outside? 0:50:04.640 --> 0:50:06.640 That's all she needed to know to pick. She could 0:50:06.680 --> 0:50:10.120 sleep in a tent, she could sleep in a hotel room. Um. 0:50:10.320 --> 0:50:12.920 They were like, yes, we did something right. Um. It 0:50:13.080 --> 0:50:16.960 wasn't long after that that Jack Hollard down asking if 0:50:16.960 --> 0:50:20.560 he could take his hatchet to Sunday school. And that 0:50:20.640 --> 0:50:22.120 was one of the times we worked at each other 0:50:22.239 --> 0:50:27.919 thought and we still we still got a little work. Yeah, 0:50:27.920 --> 0:50:29.920 I think it's I grew up in a house like that. 0:50:30.000 --> 0:50:34.239 My brother never never got into hunting, and I did, 0:50:34.320 --> 0:50:36.799 of course, And you know, you you look back at 0:50:36.840 --> 0:50:39.360 that and him and I an you know, kind of 0:50:39.360 --> 0:50:43.280 the same guy, and just except for that, it's it's hilarious, 0:50:43.400 --> 0:50:47.200 kind of hilariously similar things we're interested in. And just 0:50:47.239 --> 0:50:50.399 like the diverged it that I would guess that it's 0:50:50.440 --> 0:50:54.920 just he by the time my dad really took me 0:50:54.960 --> 0:50:56.759 when I was twelve or thirteen, But by the time 0:50:56.800 --> 0:50:59.480 my brother would have got into it as well, he 0:50:59.520 --> 0:51:01.680 was into other of things. This is like just never 0:51:01.719 --> 0:51:04.520 happened for him. If we could, if if we could 0:51:04.560 --> 0:51:06.200 go back in time, knowing what I know now, I'd 0:51:06.239 --> 0:51:08.960 be like, hey, man, you really need to come along, 0:51:09.440 --> 0:51:10.960 like you really need to be a part of this, 0:51:11.000 --> 0:51:14.520 because you're gonna be You're missing something. But at that time, 0:51:14.560 --> 0:51:16.239 it was just I did this and he did. He 0:51:16.239 --> 0:51:19.000 did sports and girls and I did hunting and girls. 0:51:19.000 --> 0:51:21.719 When I can get to it, that that's what it was. You. 0:51:22.480 --> 0:51:25.439 So you don't really know those things the verge, don't. 0:51:25.600 --> 0:51:30.040 You don't know. And you know, doing what I do 0:51:30.200 --> 0:51:34.200 for a living, you know, A hunted and fished just 0:51:34.480 --> 0:51:37.319 a lot, you know, and and I would hunt and 0:51:37.360 --> 0:51:40.720 fish for work, and I'd come home after an assignment, 0:51:40.760 --> 0:51:42.799 well that was work. I was ready to go hunting 0:51:42.800 --> 0:51:46.600 and fishing. Thankfully, I I'm married someone who understood you 0:51:46.719 --> 0:51:52.000 understood that. Um. But some of the best advice that Julie, 0:51:52.040 --> 0:51:53.520 my wife, ever gave me, and she had to give 0:51:53.520 --> 0:51:57.160 it to me a lot over the years, was to 0:51:57.320 --> 0:52:01.080 meet these kids where they were. You know, we want 0:52:01.160 --> 0:52:04.799 them to experience the world that we love, but but 0:52:04.880 --> 0:52:08.480 not everybody's wired for it. Um and And with Jack 0:52:08.800 --> 0:52:11.399 and I made some big mistakes with Jack early on 0:52:11.760 --> 0:52:14.520 hunting and fishing, no no question about it. Almost lost 0:52:14.560 --> 0:52:18.799 him to hunting early on. UM with but with Marquis, 0:52:19.960 --> 0:52:23.040 you know, what was important was getting her outside and 0:52:23.080 --> 0:52:29.040 having that father daughter relationship that even now is pretty rare, 0:52:29.680 --> 0:52:33.160 I think. And the fact that we ended up traveling 0:52:33.239 --> 0:52:36.400 so much together just her and I over the years 0:52:36.440 --> 0:52:40.400 has paid enormous enormous benefits UM in terms of our 0:52:40.480 --> 0:52:43.759 level of communication and our relationship. But but it was 0:52:43.800 --> 0:52:46.480 always I was always trying to get them to the 0:52:46.560 --> 0:52:49.200 next level of whatever I want to do, you know, 0:52:49.400 --> 0:52:52.480 and you gotta meet him where they are, to meet 0:52:52.520 --> 0:52:55.319 him where they are. Yeah, my son currently would be 0:52:55.400 --> 0:52:58.719 like dinosaurs, gonna meet him at dinosaurs, which we do. 0:52:58.880 --> 0:53:01.440 We do a lot, We do a lot of dinosaurs. 0:53:01.760 --> 0:53:03.960 But yeah, and I think that's good, great advice. Do 0:53:04.400 --> 0:53:07.359 you feel, and your kids are pretty close in asel, 0:53:07.400 --> 0:53:10.919 I say, three three years, do you feel that there 0:53:10.960 --> 0:53:14.000 was ever a time where you realize that they were 0:53:14.040 --> 0:53:17.040 that different that you you know that you had to 0:53:17.040 --> 0:53:19.000 handle one one way? I mean, you've kind of alluded 0:53:19.040 --> 0:53:21.680 to it, but do you remember making a conscious choice 0:53:21.719 --> 0:53:26.200 to kind of foster one's hunting and one's, uh more 0:53:26.280 --> 0:53:33.680 just love of out being outside. Yeah. I had my 0:53:33.800 --> 0:53:37.040 daughter and I had this thing called Daddy Daughter Deer 0:53:37.120 --> 0:53:41.520 Camp where we would go slum it up in a 0:53:41.520 --> 0:53:46.799 little mom and pop motel and and deer hunt at 0:53:46.800 --> 0:53:48.279 the at the least that I had was about it 0:53:48.400 --> 0:53:50.040 was about an hour away. It didn't have a honey 0:53:50.080 --> 0:53:51.960 camp on it, so we stayed at this little hotel. 0:53:52.920 --> 0:53:57.560 And I remember one day they were they were harvesting 0:53:57.560 --> 0:54:03.120 sweet potatoes in the field, and she was totally enamored 0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:06.520 of the whole process, and we must have come back 0:54:06.560 --> 0:54:09.120 with eighty pounds of sweet potatoes and never even I 0:54:09.160 --> 0:54:11.759 don't even think we hunted that morning, and I talked 0:54:11.760 --> 0:54:13.319 to her about this and said, you, Margie, you you're 0:54:13.320 --> 0:54:15.239 a whole lot more interested in hanging around, you know, 0:54:15.400 --> 0:54:18.239 with the with the potato farmers than you were and 0:54:18.320 --> 0:54:20.560 being in a tree stand. And and she started to 0:54:20.600 --> 0:54:23.759 help me realize that it just it just wasn't it 0:54:23.880 --> 0:54:26.719 just wasn't there. But but I was already doing so 0:54:26.800 --> 0:54:32.759 much hunting with Jack that I recognized, you know, I 0:54:32.840 --> 0:54:35.160 recognized that I needed to be proactive with my daughter. 0:54:35.560 --> 0:54:37.840 So that's when I started. Every every year since she 0:54:37.920 --> 0:54:41.400 was a little girl, she and I have traveled somewhere, 0:54:41.719 --> 0:54:44.319 just the two of us for four or five, six, seven, 0:54:44.400 --> 0:54:47.400 eight days, and that's that's that's been our thing. And 0:54:47.400 --> 0:54:50.560 so that's that's important. But I do remember with Jack, 0:54:51.840 --> 0:54:55.200 you know, I took him deer hunting when he was little, 0:54:56.080 --> 0:54:59.000 too little, for too long, you know, when deer hunting 0:54:59.480 --> 0:55:02.760 with a year old boring one night cold here was boring. 0:55:03.239 --> 0:55:06.600 It's just an exercise, and you know, sit down, don't move, 0:55:06.600 --> 0:55:09.880 shut up, don't scratch, don't don't don't don't don't, you know, 0:55:10.320 --> 0:55:12.040 And he didn't want to disappoint me. And I didn't 0:55:12.120 --> 0:55:16.359 learn about this until several years after all this, and 0:55:16.440 --> 0:55:18.320 he he just he got to where he just couldn't 0:55:18.320 --> 0:55:20.279 stand to go. But he wouldn't. He was not going 0:55:20.320 --> 0:55:22.920 to tell me no. So I took him duck hunting 0:55:22.920 --> 0:55:28.000 one time, and Ben, I remember, we were standing in 0:55:28.040 --> 0:55:33.000 the swamp and I looked over and he was doing this. 0:55:33.840 --> 0:55:41.440 He was moving his index finger almost imperceptibly to scratch 0:55:41.520 --> 0:55:45.040 his nose because he knew if he moved it fast, 0:55:45.120 --> 0:55:47.080 I'd be on him like I wasn't at tree stand right, 0:55:47.080 --> 0:55:49.640 And I said, you know, Jack, when you're duck hunting, 0:55:50.280 --> 0:55:55.120 you can scratch your chit chat, eat, eat a granola bar. 0:55:55.400 --> 0:55:59.359 And honestly, I just I saw the wait just lift 0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:02.080 off his shoulders, you know. And so when years to come, 0:56:02.080 --> 0:56:04.560 I have to say, you know, Jack, just because you 0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:07.880 can talk in a duck blind doesn't mean you have 0:56:08.000 --> 0:56:12.680 to always talk in a dug line. But ever since then, 0:56:12.719 --> 0:56:15.560 it was feathers for him. You know, he's still good 0:56:15.600 --> 0:56:17.640 deer hunting, and he's he may come back to it. 0:56:17.640 --> 0:56:19.919 He started to he started to make some noise about 0:56:19.920 --> 0:56:22.080 coming back to it. But from then on it was 0:56:22.320 --> 0:56:27.040 birds and shotguns and shooting. You like to shoot. Squirrels 0:56:27.040 --> 0:56:29.839 were good too, but yeah, you've got to figure out, 0:56:30.520 --> 0:56:32.960 you know what trips the trigger. That's good insight too. 0:56:33.000 --> 0:56:34.840 It's like you you wonder if it's the chicken or 0:56:34.880 --> 0:56:37.120 the egg? Are you are you out there doing things 0:56:37.160 --> 0:56:40.319 to find it? Or you know, is the is the 0:56:40.360 --> 0:56:43.000 opposite true? You know? How do you know it's Is 0:56:43.040 --> 0:56:45.040 it always there and you're just trying to get out 0:56:45.080 --> 0:56:46.440 of get everything else out of the way to get 0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:50.080 get it. I wonder that about I haven't, I guess 0:56:50.080 --> 0:56:52.799 a generalist mentality. I just love doing it all. I don't. 0:56:52.840 --> 0:56:57.320 I haven't found any one thing. I could probably rank them. Um, 0:56:57.480 --> 0:57:01.840 turkey hunting currently is like the thing, but I wouldn't 0:57:01.920 --> 0:57:04.160 if you suddenly said, hey, I gotta here's a duck 0:57:04.239 --> 0:57:06.399 boat and a bunch of decoys and somebody to teach 0:57:06.400 --> 0:57:09.359 you how to call like a champion. Be just as 0:57:09.400 --> 0:57:11.839 into that as anything else. So I've always I feel 0:57:11.880 --> 0:57:13.360 like I'm lucky that way. But there's some people that 0:57:13.360 --> 0:57:15.960 are just you know, doing that chicken or the egg dance, 0:57:16.520 --> 0:57:21.360 you know. And I figured out early enough that what 0:57:21.480 --> 0:57:25.520 I wanted them to leave the woods with was the 0:57:25.600 --> 0:57:30.120 feeling that God, that was amazing, that was so much fun. 0:57:30.400 --> 0:57:32.880 I can't wait to go back. And if that meant 0:57:32.960 --> 0:57:37.640 the squirrel hunt was over in three minutes after a 0:57:37.760 --> 0:57:40.440 legal shooting light and we spent the rest of the 0:57:40.440 --> 0:57:43.720 morning shooting sickamore balls in the creek, then that's what 0:57:43.760 --> 0:57:47.280 it meant. Um. But yeah, you know, I minute doing 0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:51.680 what I do. I'm I'm terribly goal oriented, and that's 0:57:51.680 --> 0:57:53.720 a terrible way to bring up kids. I'm I'm super 0:57:53.760 --> 0:57:56.080 thankful that I learned that earlier. I'm super thankful I 0:57:56.080 --> 0:58:00.480 had a wife that helped me learned that. One thing 0:58:00.520 --> 0:58:04.240 I I learned from well I learned it from multiple people, 0:58:04.320 --> 0:58:06.600 but I learned from my dad's. Like he my dad 0:58:06.680 --> 0:58:10.640 wasn't really let's say, like you know, gear oriented. You know, 0:58:10.920 --> 0:58:12.680 he had a lot of I mean, he is a 0:58:12.680 --> 0:58:18.680 guy that kind of knew the natural world ends and out, birds, trees, whatever, um, 0:58:18.760 --> 0:58:21.600 but just you know, didn't really ever change his oil. 0:58:21.960 --> 0:58:24.160 But I had a neighbor who was kind of a 0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:26.880 little bit the opposite, didn't really know, you know, I 0:58:27.000 --> 0:58:29.760 didn't know trees, birds, whatever. He was. He was all 0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:33.400 kind of you know, get your hands dirty. So I 0:58:33.440 --> 0:58:35.840 had my dad very much let me go with him 0:58:36.160 --> 0:58:38.919 to go change my oil. To do certain certain things. 0:58:38.920 --> 0:58:41.240 I think my dad recognized like what he could bring, 0:58:41.280 --> 0:58:43.360 and I think I remember later on, I'll tell his 0:58:43.440 --> 0:58:48.920 story just to make my parents proud. I gotta Early 0:58:49.000 --> 0:58:51.200 on in my driving career, I got what they call 0:58:51.320 --> 0:58:55.800 it like h d y kind of thing. It wasn't 0:58:55.800 --> 0:58:57.560 even to do. I think it was just had a 0:58:57.560 --> 0:58:59.000 beer in the car and I wasn't old enough to 0:58:59.000 --> 0:59:01.440 have one. So I had to go to a class 0:59:01.440 --> 0:59:04.760 and would like so I didn't get in trouble, one 0:59:04.760 --> 0:59:08.280 of those like scared straight type class. And so I 0:59:08.360 --> 0:59:10.480 went there and my dad was said with me. They 0:59:10.480 --> 0:59:13.960 were interviewing me about kind of like my influences were 0:59:14.080 --> 0:59:16.160 good and bad. And I remember my dad saying, they saying, 0:59:16.400 --> 0:59:18.440 you know, other than your father, is there an influence 0:59:18.480 --> 0:59:20.680 positive influence in your life that you would call a mentor, 0:59:20.840 --> 0:59:23.840 Like yeah, man, Bill Miller's my neighbors. This is I 0:59:23.880 --> 0:59:25.560 remember like looking at my dad and then looking at 0:59:25.600 --> 0:59:28.520 me like, yeah, you understand that. You know this other 0:59:28.600 --> 0:59:32.760 influences is important? Did you gotta have that for your kids? 0:59:32.760 --> 0:59:35.320 Are like if you didn't, do you wish you did? 0:59:35.360 --> 0:59:37.720 Like how how did that go for them? With their life? 0:59:37.760 --> 0:59:43.560 Have other influenced other influences. Um, that's an interesting question 0:59:43.920 --> 0:59:49.480 because they didn't have a lot of other influences in 0:59:49.720 --> 0:59:53.280 terms of the outdoors. My father died when I was 0:59:53.320 --> 0:59:58.480 a kid, so they didn't really have that sort of grandfather, uncles, aunts, 0:59:58.600 --> 1:00:04.840 other family members. Um. So in terms of bringing them 1:00:04.920 --> 1:00:08.360 up with a with a love of the outdoors, it 1:00:08.440 --> 1:00:11.240 was it was Julie and I. I mean, because Julie 1:00:11.800 --> 1:00:15.919 loves the loves to camp, loves to hike. I used 1:00:15.920 --> 1:00:20.040 to love to backpack, um. And we were constantly taking 1:00:20.800 --> 1:00:23.000 the kids out. I mean that's what you know when 1:00:23.040 --> 1:00:26.080 you when you look at a family's budget, you can 1:00:26.120 --> 1:00:29.440 kind of figure out what they what they think is important. Right, 1:00:29.560 --> 1:00:31.920 how much of their mortgages going to their house payment, 1:00:31.960 --> 1:00:33.680 how much of it is going to their car payment. 1:00:34.400 --> 1:00:36.720 And we love to travel. That's where we spend our 1:00:36.760 --> 1:00:39.520 family money on, you know, and we were very intentional 1:00:40.160 --> 1:00:43.880 about that. Um. And so I think I think that 1:00:44.000 --> 1:00:47.320 probably had as much of an influence on then these others. 1:00:47.440 --> 1:00:51.400 I lament the fact that that my kids didn't have 1:00:52.080 --> 1:00:54.960 the older generation in front of them, and frankly, Julie 1:00:54.960 --> 1:00:58.480 and I probably overcompensated in ways because they because they 1:00:58.480 --> 1:01:02.040 didn't have that, but they they seem to have turned 1:01:02.080 --> 1:01:06.200 out okay. Right now, they're on the boat at Cape 1:01:06.200 --> 1:01:09.480 Lookout maybe maybe coming back. And I hadn't gotten a 1:01:09.840 --> 1:01:11.680 I hadn't got a note from the coach guard. The answer, 1:01:11.920 --> 1:01:14.240 I'm thinking we did something okay, but they're still there's 1:01:14.240 --> 1:01:16.280 still time for that to go south. Oh, we've been 1:01:16.320 --> 1:01:18.080 looking at it, like looking at I don't know if 1:01:18.080 --> 1:01:21.080 it's been intentional here lately, Ronnella and I and you're honestly, 1:01:21.920 --> 1:01:24.320 it was kind of triggered by Steve asking one one 1:01:24.360 --> 1:01:28.040 live podcast we did. Steve asked question like what did 1:01:28.040 --> 1:01:30.600 your dad teach you and hunting that you carry with you? 1:01:30.640 --> 1:01:32.320 And we all answered kind of I think, well like 1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:34.560 the pat answer, and we all had something because our 1:01:34.640 --> 1:01:37.560 dads are all very involved in our and our upbringing 1:01:37.560 --> 1:01:40.800 out doors. And then the next couple weeks later, we're 1:01:40.800 --> 1:01:42.400 at a show and he asked, what did your mom 1:01:42.480 --> 1:01:45.000 do all right? Somebody written in like, wait a minute, 1:01:45.080 --> 1:01:47.520 is that only the father here? Like a non hunch 1:01:47.560 --> 1:01:49.320 of right in, Like I don't understand why you never 1:01:49.360 --> 1:01:52.720 talked about any other influences or at least you focus 1:01:52.840 --> 1:01:57.919 so heavy on on that that the influences of your father, 1:01:57.960 --> 1:01:59.800 and we started to then answer, like, what did your 1:01:59.840 --> 1:02:03.840 mother they're doing All of us were kind of uh uh, 1:02:04.160 --> 1:02:06.480 and then we I could just see I was looking 1:02:06.520 --> 1:02:08.000 at the other guys up there, and I could see 1:02:08.040 --> 1:02:10.200 that like things were sparkling in their heads that they've 1:02:10.240 --> 1:02:13.600 never thought of before. And it was interesting to me 1:02:13.640 --> 1:02:16.240 to just kind of think about those influences. How, you know, 1:02:16.280 --> 1:02:21.280 how do you, either consciously or unconsciously, were shaped by them? 1:02:21.280 --> 1:02:25.000 You know? Yeah, my mother was the great enabler um 1:02:25.160 --> 1:02:28.000 since I didn't have a father that took me hunting 1:02:28.000 --> 1:02:31.680 and fishing, and she knew how absorbed I was in 1:02:31.720 --> 1:02:34.280 this world, even though I had no one in my 1:02:34.360 --> 1:02:38.640 family who hunted, no one in my life experience who hunted. 1:02:38.680 --> 1:02:42.200 I didn't know a hunter um. And when my dad died, 1:02:42.240 --> 1:02:46.440 I was thirteen, and even by the end, I mean, 1:02:46.480 --> 1:02:49.560 I subscribe to field and stream and outdoor life and 1:02:49.640 --> 1:02:51.840 fur fishing game and all that stuff. You know, I 1:02:51.840 --> 1:02:56.240 had a I had a pola pine straw in the 1:02:56.280 --> 1:02:58.960 backyard and a and a bow. You know. The kids 1:02:58.960 --> 1:03:01.560 going to football practice would holler out at me, nature boy, 1:03:02.280 --> 1:03:06.400 because I'd be back there shooting yeah, yeah, yeah, So 1:03:07.240 --> 1:03:11.040 I mean, honestly, Ben, I remember I remember driving to 1:03:11.120 --> 1:03:15.520 the mountains as a kid, and and I was laying 1:03:15.560 --> 1:03:18.280 down in the back of our en seventy three Pinto 1:03:18.360 --> 1:03:21.640 station wagon, of course, with no seatbelts, and and I 1:03:21.680 --> 1:03:26.400 saw out of the window a big field and a 1:03:26.440 --> 1:03:28.800 little speck of blaze orange in a tree, and it 1:03:28.880 --> 1:03:34.560 was a deer hunter. And I absolutely remember asking myself, 1:03:36.240 --> 1:03:41.320 would I ever get to go hunting? Was there was 1:03:41.360 --> 1:03:45.800 there any path in my life that would that would 1:03:45.920 --> 1:03:50.720 lead me to that? And and there wasn't. There wasn't 1:03:50.880 --> 1:03:54.120 until my father passed away and a friend at church 1:03:55.760 --> 1:03:59.000 did what we all tell each other we need to do. 1:03:59.320 --> 1:04:02.000 He took a kid hunting. And his great credit Keith, 1:04:02.160 --> 1:04:04.840 Keith Gleason, he didn't take a kid hunting, this kid 1:04:05.680 --> 1:04:08.480 hunting on Saturday and get me all hopped up and 1:04:08.480 --> 1:04:10.720 then walk out of my life. From the first time 1:04:10.760 --> 1:04:14.440 we went squirrel hunting in October of nineteen seventy four 1:04:14.960 --> 1:04:19.919 until I graduated from college, he took me. We went 1:04:20.400 --> 1:04:23.720 every Saturday of the season, and so it was one 1:04:23.760 --> 1:04:25.920 of those few times where you could point to a 1:04:26.040 --> 1:04:29.920 moment when your life just takes a dramatic, dramatic change. 1:04:30.120 --> 1:04:32.680 And so my mom, to speak to your question, she 1:04:32.760 --> 1:04:36.120 was the one who allowed me to do all the 1:04:36.160 --> 1:04:38.280 stuff that she was super uncomfortable with. You know. I mean, 1:04:38.320 --> 1:04:40.480 I was a snake freak like so many of us, 1:04:40.520 --> 1:04:41.880 you know, grew up on this creek, and I would 1:04:42.120 --> 1:04:47.000 She would let me hibernate my snakes and pillow cases, 1:04:47.120 --> 1:04:54.200 knotted pillowcases in the refrigerator's vegetable cristal. God, bless her soul, 1:04:54.920 --> 1:04:59.880 she would. She knew how badly I wanted this. And 1:05:00.080 --> 1:05:03.360 so I think even today, I think that's probably as 1:05:03.440 --> 1:05:06.320 much a part of my success, be that as it 1:05:06.400 --> 1:05:10.240 may as anything is. There's a lot of mornings when 1:05:10.280 --> 1:05:16.200 I wake up and I just I'm just amazed at 1:05:16.200 --> 1:05:21.320 what I'm doing. Um, And I want other people to 1:05:21.360 --> 1:05:27.880 realize that their love of hunting and fishing is you know, 1:05:28.200 --> 1:05:32.120 these sports are imperiled from outside forces, whether they're economic, 1:05:32.200 --> 1:05:34.800 or whether they're social, whether they're cultural. And if we 1:05:34.840 --> 1:05:40.640 don't figure out a way to address those challenges, this 1:05:40.720 --> 1:05:44.200 is this is gonna slip away when we talk about 1:05:44.200 --> 1:05:46.960 it as a community, I feel like and it's when 1:05:47.000 --> 1:05:48.800 you tell a story like that to me, it's it's 1:05:48.840 --> 1:05:51.439 sobering and it's a little bit emotional to think of. 1:05:52.760 --> 1:05:54.720 We always talk about our three and we like we've 1:05:54.720 --> 1:05:56.640 made up these the fancy little things, but like we 1:05:56.760 --> 1:05:59.680 really just talk about affecting someone's life, not just just 1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:02.920 the day that they're with you or And that's the 1:06:02.960 --> 1:06:04.920 reason I do what I do. I think because I've 1:06:05.040 --> 1:06:09.120 identified this in enriching thing like this, Oh, look at 1:06:09.120 --> 1:06:11.960 this thing no one really knows about. They don't really 1:06:11.960 --> 1:06:14.280 know about the way I know now about it, and 1:06:14.320 --> 1:06:16.760 it's shrinking. For fox sake, what that makes no sense 1:06:16.800 --> 1:06:19.400 to me? And so it's engendered in me this like 1:06:20.760 --> 1:06:23.480 one willingness to fight, but also one willingness to appreciate 1:06:23.520 --> 1:06:26.360 what that what's currently here, because it is shrinking and 1:06:26.360 --> 1:06:29.480 by any measure, you know, almost all measures. So it's 1:06:29.480 --> 1:06:31.520 just a it's a sobering thought that that you're a 1:06:31.560 --> 1:06:34.480 part of something that has been so enriching to your 1:06:34.520 --> 1:06:36.640 life and others lives, and people have given their time 1:06:36.680 --> 1:06:38.880 to kind of change your path and you can do 1:06:38.920 --> 1:06:41.440 that for other people. It's just like the spider web 1:06:41.440 --> 1:06:44.720 of experiences that we're all together in, but that that's 1:06:44.760 --> 1:06:47.360 closing in on us. A little bit and so. And 1:06:47.680 --> 1:06:50.720 I think part of the success and that is celebrating 1:06:50.960 --> 1:06:54.720 all of the different ways that we choose to involve 1:06:54.760 --> 1:06:57.240 ourselves in this in this passion of hunting. You know 1:06:57.440 --> 1:06:59.480 that that one is not better than the other, that 1:06:59.560 --> 1:07:06.840 one is not more elevated. That I mean coast coast 1:07:06.880 --> 1:07:15.240 to coast, north to south. Those those feelings at sunrise, Um, 1:07:15.440 --> 1:07:19.480 I think they're the same in a salt marsh as 1:07:19.480 --> 1:07:23.200 a rocky mountain ridge line. You know, the heart, the 1:07:23.280 --> 1:07:26.760 heart can only beat so fast and so deep, and 1:07:27.200 --> 1:07:31.240 those moments like that, we mix it out no matter 1:07:31.280 --> 1:07:34.760 where we're standing. Yeah, And I think that that's why 1:07:34.800 --> 1:07:36.560 we were drawn to these people that are able to 1:07:36.560 --> 1:07:40.320 codify the ideas and like you know, Aldo and and 1:07:40.320 --> 1:07:43.600 Teddy Roosevelt and and all these writers you know, and 1:07:43.640 --> 1:07:46.680 I would put even yourself and guys like Steve Rinella 1:07:46.720 --> 1:07:48.600 and all these other writers and people that are able 1:07:48.640 --> 1:07:50.800 to take these ideas that we share an articulating in 1:07:50.880 --> 1:07:53.920 such a way that one making relatable, but to make 1:07:54.000 --> 1:07:56.840 you realize that's how I'm feeling, Holy Ship, that's how 1:07:56.840 --> 1:08:00.920 I'm feeling. Yeah, yep, that's it. And then once you've 1:08:00.920 --> 1:08:06.080 shared that with someone and it's it's it's beyond measure, 1:08:06.080 --> 1:08:09.480 I feel like. And that's and as lucky as I 1:08:09.480 --> 1:08:14.120 feel to be a hunter, I feel equally blessed to 1:08:14.160 --> 1:08:17.719 write about hunting, because I mean, I do think that's 1:08:17.760 --> 1:08:22.920 been I hate the call that a stick, but I've 1:08:22.960 --> 1:08:25.719 done a lot of writing about, you know, the cultural 1:08:25.720 --> 1:08:28.360 response to hunting, that personal response, you know. I mean, 1:08:28.400 --> 1:08:33.839 I I love to write stories that are just great 1:08:34.000 --> 1:08:38.679 stories of human character, and they happen to be told 1:08:39.439 --> 1:08:43.720 through the medium of the hunting and fishing. Um. But 1:08:43.840 --> 1:08:50.760 there's there's there's something about this pursuit that is is 1:08:50.840 --> 1:08:56.280 transcendent in a way that that other quote unquote sports 1:08:56.320 --> 1:08:59.639 I don't I don't think can be. And then again, 1:08:59.680 --> 1:09:01.920 I was a kid that the football players called niture 1:09:01.920 --> 1:09:04.080 boy and the buck. What do I did that? Well, 1:09:04.479 --> 1:09:07.479 if you would have kept that and trademarked it could 1:09:07.479 --> 1:09:11.439 have been a wrestler now. But I think that's it's true. Um. 1:09:11.520 --> 1:09:13.240 And there's a lot of people you like the author 1:09:13.360 --> 1:09:15.080 Michael poland It wrote the book I'm Know Where's the 1:09:15.120 --> 1:09:17.679 Lemmter talked about it in his book. He said hunting 1:09:17.760 --> 1:09:20.880 is so incredibly different from the inside than it than 1:09:20.920 --> 1:09:23.040 it is from the outside. I mean, this is it's 1:09:23.120 --> 1:09:27.240 just this incredible core that no one gets to see 1:09:27.280 --> 1:09:30.000 because it's so hard to see it. I mean it's 1:09:30.080 --> 1:09:34.000 like a you know, it's it's it's almost invisible unless 1:09:34.000 --> 1:09:36.439 you're there doing it, you know, because it's there's so 1:09:36.479 --> 1:09:39.120 many ways to see it that don't seem productive. And 1:09:39.320 --> 1:09:41.800 you know, you imagine society and everyone that doesn't hunt 1:09:41.880 --> 1:09:43.400 is just asking the question is this good for all 1:09:43.400 --> 1:09:45.439 of us? Is this good for everything? It is this 1:09:45.520 --> 1:09:48.679 good for what society and the way we think about 1:09:49.040 --> 1:09:52.360 animals and our interaction and our motivations are we good? 1:09:52.600 --> 1:09:55.519 Is this good? And we're like, yeah, fucking really good. 1:09:56.120 --> 1:09:58.200 But it's hard. I mean we've struggled to articulate that. 1:09:58.240 --> 1:10:03.240 I feel like, you know, over time, huh is it good? 1:10:03.240 --> 1:10:06.080 We could say? Am I playing a role in it 1:10:06.160 --> 1:10:08.519 being good? You know? So that's sort of the question 1:10:09.000 --> 1:10:11.759 as well. I Mean, we don't want to saddle people 1:10:11.800 --> 1:10:16.519 with all this philosophical baggage. You know, you just want 1:10:16.520 --> 1:10:21.160 to go hunt, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. 1:10:22.320 --> 1:10:24.960 But that's I keep coming back to that because I've 1:10:25.000 --> 1:10:27.680 I've argued this a lot of people and sometimes I 1:10:27.680 --> 1:10:29.360 would step back from because I don't want to be 1:10:29.439 --> 1:10:31.120 that guy, right, the guy in the room going like, 1:10:31.439 --> 1:10:34.080 don't you guys want to think a little deeper. This 1:10:34.120 --> 1:10:37.880 is a douchey thing to say sometimes oftentimes, but I 1:10:37.880 --> 1:10:41.439 also want to say, like, in our little community here 1:10:41.439 --> 1:10:45.880 of people, if if you would tell me that half 1:10:46.160 --> 1:10:48.120 or more want to just go out and have fun, 1:10:48.200 --> 1:10:51.360 I would say, that's that's that's fine. Whatever number of 1:10:51.479 --> 1:10:55.439 us just feel that it's this is in their nature 1:10:55.439 --> 1:10:56.760 and they're gonna do it. They're gonna have a good 1:10:56.760 --> 1:11:00.000 time and that's what they get from it. I'm totally 1:11:00.080 --> 1:11:02.439 fine with that. I would argue that there needs to 1:11:02.439 --> 1:11:04.760 be a percentage of on the other side, that's that's 1:11:04.760 --> 1:11:07.880 answering these tough questions and having you know, sometimes these 1:11:07.960 --> 1:11:13.479 endless conversations around some of the more intricate parts of it. 1:11:14.360 --> 1:11:17.120 So when someone asks you have somebody to send them to, 1:11:17.760 --> 1:11:20.160 you know, and I think there's a that percentage of 1:11:20.240 --> 1:11:24.200 people or the or the ones that I think are 1:11:24.200 --> 1:11:26.839 the ones that are almost ridgelines and then there's swamp 1:11:26.880 --> 1:11:34.400 bottoms just feeling totally blessed by this moment. Yeah, and 1:11:34.439 --> 1:11:36.760 if it's guys like it's guys like you and other 1:11:36.760 --> 1:11:38.719 people have had on this podcast, like if if Honey 1:11:38.760 --> 1:11:42.719 was a representative government, Like who would we elect? Because 1:11:42.720 --> 1:11:45.120 we have to elect someone to explain our the ship 1:11:45.240 --> 1:11:48.599 we do to other people, Like we have to elect 1:11:48.600 --> 1:11:52.320 a body to allow us to just go and have 1:11:52.439 --> 1:11:56.439 fun and elect the body of people to talk about 1:11:56.439 --> 1:11:59.280 it and think about it and reason it outside of 1:11:59.280 --> 1:12:01.840 this science and biology that goes on the state game 1:12:01.880 --> 1:12:04.160 agency level in the federal or whatever, just just as 1:12:04.200 --> 1:12:08.320 a theory and philosophy. I think that's that's how I 1:12:08.360 --> 1:12:09.880 look at it. There's got to be some people out 1:12:09.880 --> 1:12:12.440 there that are doing that, you know, and like exploring 1:12:12.720 --> 1:12:15.040 the human elements of hunting and things like that that 1:12:15.560 --> 1:12:17.439 just a little bit deeper than most people want to 1:12:17.439 --> 1:12:19.120 go with it. Well, you know, at the at the 1:12:19.200 --> 1:12:24.679 dawn of our modern civilization or or or at our 1:12:25.080 --> 1:12:30.920 our modern culture, people sat around and tunics and sandals 1:12:31.720 --> 1:12:34.720 and thought about what it means, what it means to 1:12:34.800 --> 1:12:39.400 be human, and what it means to engage in society, 1:12:39.720 --> 1:12:44.720 and what good government means. So, I mean, I I 1:12:44.760 --> 1:12:47.120 think it's a fine thing to sit around in our 1:12:47.439 --> 1:12:52.360 flip flop flannel shirts and think about what does it 1:12:52.439 --> 1:12:58.920 mean to be a taker of life? Yeah, yeah, that's 1:12:58.920 --> 1:13:03.519 the question. Yeah. I think it's that conversation like we'll 1:13:03.520 --> 1:13:06.560 never get there or never you'll never be like, oh, 1:13:06.760 --> 1:13:09.120 you know, you know what, guys, I hadn't thought of 1:13:09.120 --> 1:13:11.680 it this way, but here it is. But you can 1:13:11.720 --> 1:13:14.280 certainly continue to explore it. And that's another part of 1:13:15.160 --> 1:13:17.160 I think how hunting community has grown and how we 1:13:17.160 --> 1:13:19.000 talk to each other. The willingness that people that are 1:13:19.000 --> 1:13:21.360 going to come to rally and sit and listen to 1:13:21.439 --> 1:13:24.360 us kind of have this conversation on a on a 1:13:24.439 --> 1:13:27.439 wonderful evening where they could be doing anything else. I 1:13:27.479 --> 1:13:31.400 think is is just evidence of the elevation of the 1:13:31.439 --> 1:13:35.599 willingness to have that conversation. And that's it's a pretty 1:13:35.640 --> 1:13:39.080 huge win in my my estimation. It's a it's a 1:13:39.120 --> 1:13:44.320 pretty good time. This may be the time, you know, 1:13:44.760 --> 1:13:47.200 like we I think we just being self critical. We 1:13:47.240 --> 1:13:49.599 can always throw stones at it. But I think I've 1:13:49.680 --> 1:13:53.400 quickly seen when I first came in the industry and 1:13:53.600 --> 1:13:56.760 social media really got going, it was not there was 1:13:56.840 --> 1:13:59.840 some really bad stuff happening, and over the last four 1:14:00.040 --> 1:14:01.840 five years, maybe I'm in a bubble. I think we're 1:14:01.880 --> 1:14:06.080 all in our like self contained internet bubble for reasons 1:14:06.120 --> 1:14:08.519 of in our controlling, outside of our control. But I 1:14:08.600 --> 1:14:14.439 you see, like you see the through lines of people 1:14:14.520 --> 1:14:17.519 that are really thinking hard, you know, in a way 1:14:17.520 --> 1:14:21.080 that they communicate, and so that's you see it and 1:14:21.240 --> 1:14:24.599 see a lot. That's that's you know that you would 1:14:24.640 --> 1:14:26.640 like to think in the groups like pH and I 1:14:26.760 --> 1:14:31.120 was just with with Fosberk from TRCP, He's like to 1:14:31.160 --> 1:14:34.280 think that that that that's all Like the fact that 1:14:34.320 --> 1:14:36.120 somebody's willing to put their money down and join one 1:14:36.120 --> 1:14:41.280 of those is signifies that that's really really truly going on. Yeah, 1:14:41.280 --> 1:14:44.280 and I think with the growth of these organizations, people 1:14:44.320 --> 1:14:47.160 are recognizing the threats that we have, the opportunities that 1:14:47.200 --> 1:14:52.719 we have, and that hey, and this tribe is big. 1:14:53.880 --> 1:14:55.880 You go to that b h A rendezvous, you go 1:14:55.920 --> 1:14:58.799 to some of these big meetings, and you looked around 1:14:58.880 --> 1:15:01.599 and that's that's that's the response. We hear a lot. 1:15:03.000 --> 1:15:05.960 I found my people. Oh yeah, right, we're at the ronde. 1:15:05.960 --> 1:15:08.519 Even you and I must I must have heard that, wow, 1:15:09.439 --> 1:15:12.360 three dozen times, I don't know how many times. Many times. Yeah, yeah, 1:15:12.439 --> 1:15:15.280 So it's I mean, that's that's strong medicine. But you know, 1:15:16.000 --> 1:15:19.400 let's also not get away from the fact that it's 1:15:19.439 --> 1:15:26.160 a it's a hoot. Put stump around into swamp, have 1:15:26.280 --> 1:15:30.160 a gun and be able to engage in this. But 1:15:30.240 --> 1:15:34.840 it's fun. That's fun, like any freedom in free either 1:15:34.920 --> 1:15:37.479 and said, well, it's it's great. I mean, this is 1:15:37.800 --> 1:15:41.080 I think being able to go and do that and 1:15:41.120 --> 1:15:42.920 then in the quiet times we're not doing that. I 1:15:42.960 --> 1:15:45.000 have these conversations and then go out and let them 1:15:45.000 --> 1:15:47.160 inform and go back and forth from that's great, man, 1:15:47.200 --> 1:15:50.200 I love doing it. Uh, there's a lot of people 1:15:50.200 --> 1:15:52.160 listen to this, I think love love to hear it. 1:15:53.640 --> 1:15:56.400 I'm assuming so a lot you know, a lot of good, 1:15:56.720 --> 1:15:59.599 good reviews over the time. But I really I do. 1:16:00.080 --> 1:16:03.519 I do believe that this this conversation, however, you know 1:16:03.640 --> 1:16:07.839 organic our conversation here has been it's a little sobering 1:16:07.880 --> 1:16:10.439 to me to think of the point from it that 1:16:10.479 --> 1:16:13.760 I'll probably take forward with needs to think of how 1:16:13.880 --> 1:16:19.040 just you didn't have a father around, somebody in your 1:16:19.080 --> 1:16:23.360 life picked up, picked you up and took the time 1:16:23.800 --> 1:16:26.760 and change your life and then and then cascading on 1:16:27.040 --> 1:16:29.719 change the lives of your children and probably their children 1:16:29.880 --> 1:16:32.040 and on and on and on we go. It's like 1:16:32.160 --> 1:16:36.040 just one you had the desire, somebody saw it and 1:16:36.160 --> 1:16:38.719 jumped on it and helps you. But that's the power 1:16:39.160 --> 1:16:41.640 of this sport man. You know you feel it, and 1:16:41.640 --> 1:16:47.080 I feel it. Everybody listening feels it. Um, I mean it. 1:16:47.520 --> 1:16:50.040 I mean these are these are life changing experiences in 1:16:50.160 --> 1:16:54.640 life affecting experiences we have. You can spend your Saturday 1:16:54.920 --> 1:16:58.439 watching Tom Brady, or you could spend your Saturday like 1:16:59.160 --> 1:17:03.759 taking somebody else man and chain and possibly hopefully changing 1:17:03.800 --> 1:17:05.240 the way that they see the world change in their 1:17:05.280 --> 1:17:09.600 life's who's Tom Brady? I'm not just see what's this 1:17:09.640 --> 1:17:12.679 oil change? And thank you were talking about I don't 1:17:12.760 --> 1:17:18.400 got time. I got time for that. Well, thank you, Edward. Um. 1:17:18.479 --> 1:17:21.160 I appreciate what you do. And you can find your 1:17:21.200 --> 1:17:23.160 working lots and lots of places. It would be hard 1:17:23.200 --> 1:17:26.120 not to find it, I feel. Uh. You can find 1:17:26.120 --> 1:17:28.960 it at field and stream, you can find a garden 1:17:28.960 --> 1:17:30.840 and gun. You can find it an Audubon, like where 1:17:30.840 --> 1:17:38.320 else do you magazine and Men's Journal and Shooting Sportsman 1:17:38.400 --> 1:17:42.880 and yeah, I look at that big polar over there. 1:17:43.320 --> 1:17:45.080 You know this is a part of my job. Nobody 1:17:45.120 --> 1:17:48.720 wants to hear about is the sitting here and right 1:17:48.880 --> 1:17:52.719 right right, but hard to complain this podcast is taken 1:17:52.720 --> 1:17:54.080 to a lot of people. I try to do them 1:17:54.080 --> 1:17:58.759 inside of people's personal space, and like this is, uh 1:17:58.880 --> 1:18:02.600 the neatest I've interviewed a lot of writers. Imagine like 1:18:02.640 --> 1:18:04.320 how Harry I didn't get to go to his officer. 1:18:04.360 --> 1:18:07.040 I imagine like he just he just his a head 1:18:07.080 --> 1:18:10.880 poking out of papers. All right, that's my that's my 1:18:11.000 --> 1:18:13.760 imagination there, Andrew mc keene, he's the same way a 1:18:13.760 --> 1:18:15.280 bunch of other folks we've had on It's just like 1:18:15.320 --> 1:18:18.960 it just seems the writer's mind seems to be too 1:18:19.000 --> 1:18:21.760 cluttered to have time to clean shut up. But you 1:18:21.880 --> 1:18:23.840 have you have done it, sir, Well, it depends on 1:18:23.840 --> 1:18:27.720 what I'm what I'm working on. Um right now, I'm 1:18:27.760 --> 1:18:31.840 working on my column for Field and Stream, which was 1:18:31.960 --> 1:18:38.320 due at some point in the recent past. Sorry guys, Yeah, 1:18:38.360 --> 1:18:40.720 so uh so yeah, so that's more of an essay thing, 1:18:40.760 --> 1:18:42.439 so I'm not covered up with notes. But yeah, there's 1:18:42.439 --> 1:18:46.120 other times when it's a it's it's a mess. It's 1:18:46.160 --> 1:18:51.240 all one story at a time. Folks. Remember that has Eddie. 1:18:51.479 --> 1:18:53.840 Eddie has always said at least for the last week. 1:18:55.280 --> 1:18:57.479 One story at a time, One story at a time. 1:18:57.680 --> 1:19:06.120 Thanks man. Alright, buddy, that's it. That's all another episode 1:19:06.160 --> 1:19:08.839 of the podcast in the Books, thanks to Eddie T. Nikins. 1:19:09.760 --> 1:19:12.400 Oh thanks to all your dad's out there here as 1:19:12.400 --> 1:19:15.360 we run up to Father's Day, So do something nice 1:19:15.360 --> 1:19:18.800 for your dad. Do something nice every day, but do 1:19:18.920 --> 1:19:24.519 something especially nice for Father's Day. Before we get any further. 1:19:25.880 --> 1:19:28.320 Th HC at the Mediator dot com. Th h C 1:19:28.560 --> 1:19:31.280 at the mediator dot com. That is where I want 1:19:31.320 --> 1:19:34.000 you to write me all your emails. Uh there, they've 1:19:34.040 --> 1:19:37.920 been flooding in here lately. Uh, to the to the program. 1:19:38.000 --> 1:19:40.200 In fact, you know, ten to fifteen a day rolling 1:19:40.200 --> 1:19:44.440 in so so it's really cool to see um everything 1:19:45.880 --> 1:19:52.880 from Colonel Tom Kelly two Ethics to Texas to anything 1:19:52.920 --> 1:19:55.080 you can think of that to the Devil Makes Three, 1:19:55.200 --> 1:19:56.560 the song that a lot of you love and a 1:19:56.640 --> 1:19:59.800 lot of you hate. It's been great to read all 1:19:59.840 --> 1:20:01.920 the I am reading them and respond to them as 1:20:01.920 --> 1:20:05.280 soon as I possibly can. But thank you for writing in. 1:20:05.439 --> 1:20:08.559 Continue to send those audio clips to th HC at 1:20:08.560 --> 1:20:11.599 the meeteator dot com. Send us the audio clips and 1:20:11.600 --> 1:20:14.439 we'll play them at the end of each show. We 1:20:14.479 --> 1:20:16.320 need them from you. They're fun for me to listen 1:20:16.320 --> 1:20:18.559 to and fun for for the rest of the audience. 1:20:18.560 --> 1:20:21.439 A lot of people have been commenting about how they 1:20:21.520 --> 1:20:25.800 love it, um and again, we're gonna continue to crank 1:20:25.840 --> 1:20:28.280 those out for you. What else, what else? What else 1:20:28.360 --> 1:20:31.080 we got? You know, it's it's almost too close to 1:20:31.080 --> 1:20:32.760 Father's Day, but you know this will come. You'll have 1:20:32.760 --> 1:20:35.200 a few days after this airs. If you want a 1:20:35.200 --> 1:20:36.880 good Father's Day gift to go to the meat eator 1:20:36.960 --> 1:20:39.600 dot com click on store. There's a lot of th 1:20:39.840 --> 1:20:44.200 HC gear there. There's hoodies, there's pro Nuance, anti bullshit 1:20:44.240 --> 1:20:48.840 t shirts, there is our Aldo Freaking louispold t. There's 1:20:48.880 --> 1:20:50.920 a bunch of stuff there that you can check out, 1:20:51.240 --> 1:20:53.160 and then once you're there, then you can buy all 1:20:53.240 --> 1:20:59.000 kinds of other things meat Eater, Metator mugs, metior hats, 1:20:59.080 --> 1:21:01.280 meet eat or Tease. We just came out with a 1:21:01.320 --> 1:21:05.320 new broadhead t that Steven Ronell himself came up with. 1:21:05.680 --> 1:21:10.040 It's pretty badass. To check it out at the meat 1:21:10.080 --> 1:21:14.240 eater dot com click on shop and you're gonna see 1:21:14.240 --> 1:21:18.719 it all there. That's great, trust me, So without further ado. 1:21:18.760 --> 1:21:23.560 We're gonna get you too a couple of reader voicemails, 1:21:23.600 --> 1:21:25.519 as we'll call him, and then we're gonna get you 1:21:25.560 --> 1:21:32.800 to old number seven. Enjoy Man. That Stephen Ronnella really 1:21:32.840 --> 1:21:36.280 came off as a high brow kind of guy throwing 1:21:36.320 --> 1:21:41.240 all our Game of Thrones love under the bus like that. 1:21:41.680 --> 1:21:46.040 I guess he doesn't have time for that, but I'll 1:21:46.040 --> 1:21:48.720 get over it. They say, never really get to know 1:21:48.840 --> 1:21:53.200 your heroes or you'll be let down. Thanks Ben for 1:21:53.479 --> 1:21:57.200 keeping it real for us Game of Thrones fans and 1:21:57.360 --> 1:22:02.519 UH to finish off the thought Sportsman's Alliance doing God's work. 1:22:03.520 --> 1:22:06.479 I wish I could support them more right now. Thanks 1:22:06.520 --> 1:22:10.200 for continuing to bring those guys on. I really get 1:22:11.840 --> 1:22:15.400 kind of uncomfortable talking about ethics because it's such a 1:22:15.439 --> 1:22:19.519 moving target for anyone in any place, whether it's ranching, 1:22:19.640 --> 1:22:26.680 pet ownership, hunting, fishing tournaments. It's a tough thing to define. 1:22:27.320 --> 1:22:29.640 Thanks for at least talking about it and the platform 1:22:29.720 --> 1:22:36.040 that you guys put forth. See Hello Ben and the 1:22:36.080 --> 1:22:41.200 guys at Hunting Collective. This is Armando Basulto. I'm from 1:22:41.360 --> 1:22:45.320 western North Carolina, out here in the Smoky Mountain part 1:22:45.360 --> 1:22:48.360 of North Carolina, big fan of the show and it've 1:22:48.439 --> 1:22:52.280 enjoined the last couple of episodes. UM, wondering if maybe 1:22:52.280 --> 1:22:54.840 on an upcoming episode you might touch a little bit 1:22:54.840 --> 1:22:58.200 more on trapping. Um, you guys touched a little bit 1:22:58.240 --> 1:23:01.160 on it when you were discussing the North American model 1:23:01.160 --> 1:23:06.360 of UH wildlife and you touched a little bit on it. 1:23:06.400 --> 1:23:10.400 But um, currently trapping is really under attack in so 1:23:10.479 --> 1:23:13.839 many states. UM. You know, it tends to be easily 1:23:13.880 --> 1:23:17.280 targeted because even some hunters don't understand it. Um. It's 1:23:17.360 --> 1:23:20.920 kind of low hanging fruit target for uh Ani hunters 1:23:20.960 --> 1:23:27.280 and people kind of work against UM hunting and conservation. So, UM, 1:23:27.320 --> 1:23:29.200 I'm a hunter, but I'm also a trapper. I'm teaching 1:23:29.200 --> 1:23:32.080 my boys how to trap, and UH, I know even 1:23:32.120 --> 1:23:35.640 I have some difficulties sometimes getting people to understand UH 1:23:35.680 --> 1:23:38.559 trapping as part of a wildlife management and as a 1:23:38.600 --> 1:23:41.519 real tool. So anyway, hoping you guys can discuss it 1:23:41.520 --> 1:23:45.240 on an upcoming episode, UM, and keep up the great work. 1:23:45.920 --> 1:23:52.200 Thanks guys. Tennessee who whiskey got the dragon heaven and 1:23:52.400 --> 1:23:55.479 uh and just stopped it looks good to me. They're 1:23:55.479 --> 1:24:02.080 gonna have to depumpit to the vardy Oh on the fire, 1:24:02.160 --> 1:24:09.200 Red dragging in the fire, dh on the fy d 1:24:10.960 --> 1:24:12.200 dragging in heaven.