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Speaker 1: Oh hey, everybody. Ben O'Brien here episode sixty five with

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Speaker 1: the Hunting Collective coming at you. It's gonna include a

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Speaker 1: message for me about Father's Day, and then uh, an

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Speaker 1: interview with great and powerful Edward T. Nikins, the writer extraordinaire.

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Speaker 1: But before we get to all that, we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about the Yetie Go Box. Now, the Yeti Go Box

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Speaker 1: is badass. Uh. It's airtight, watertight. It's an awesome box

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Speaker 1: to keep whatever is important to you. And I just

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Speaker 1: got back from the bear Woods and we're camping out.

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Speaker 1: My dad and I in public Lands are running around

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Speaker 1: and I used the Go Box as my camp cook kid.

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Speaker 1: I put my pots and pans in there. I put

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Speaker 1: my Mountain House meals in there. I put all my seasonings,

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Speaker 1: all my silverware, plates, bowls, all of that fit perfectly

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Speaker 1: into the Go Box. And I want to keep that

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Speaker 1: in there. Keep that in my truck no matter where

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Speaker 1: I am, where I decided to camp or decided to

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Speaker 1: roll around, always have that there. It's you know, jep Oil,

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Speaker 1: Mountain House, everything in there in the Eddie Gobox, schip

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Speaker 1: hit Eddie dot com. Pick that up, man, it's a

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Speaker 1: great product. You're going to love it, and then we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about Federal Premium ammunition right now, Federal Premium

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Speaker 1: dot com. There's a bunch of new things coming out

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Speaker 1: from them, um, but particularly right now, we needed to go.

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Speaker 1: We had a lot of feedback from you guys about

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Speaker 1: Federal t S S turkey AMMO, because boy, did we

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Speaker 1: kill some turkeys with that thing this year. I watched

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Speaker 1: not only myself kill some birds, but you honest but

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Speaker 1: tell us Stephen Ranella, um, Ryan Callahan, we were all

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Speaker 1: we dropped a lot of turkeys with Federal TSS heavyweight

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Speaker 1: this spring. And a lot of you guys have reacted

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Speaker 1: to that and asked a few questions exactly. The one

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Speaker 1: question was how far do you think you can shoot

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Speaker 1: with this thing? Well, Man's I would say for sure.

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Speaker 1: I mean I killed a bird out to past fifty yards. Um,

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Speaker 1: I killed birds at forty and I killed him at

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Speaker 1: ten and fifteen. And I know the other guys the

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Speaker 1: same way. I am very comfortable at forty and fifty

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Speaker 1: yards with Federal TSS ammunition. And so if you're you're

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Speaker 1: looking for a very competent what I would refer to

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Speaker 1: as a long range turkey gun. This is the one.

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Speaker 1: This is the one that is Federal Heavyweight t s

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Speaker 1: S at Federal Premium dot Com. All right, now we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get to this podcast. You're gonna love it. Let's go.

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Speaker 1: I guess I grew up on an older road, a

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Speaker 1: pedal to the medal. I always did what I told

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Speaker 1: until I found out that my brand new close a

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Speaker 1: game second hand from the rich kids next door. And

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Speaker 1: I grew up baths. I guess, like what I mean,

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Speaker 1: they have a thousand things inside of my head I

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Speaker 1: wish I ain't seen, and now I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: real bad dream of being in lack. I'm coming about

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Speaker 1: of the seams. But thank you, Jack Daniels. Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome to another episode the Hunt Collective. I'm been O'Brien.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna air this one with Juleven getting down to

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Speaker 1: it very season almost over here in Montana. One last

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Speaker 1: shot at it this weekend, and we're getting getting into

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Speaker 1: it at the time. I like to pull my bow

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Speaker 1: out and shooting around. But today is is special podcasts

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Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons. About they're always all uh,

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Speaker 1: well I work called them, so they're all special me.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's coming up on Father's Day. So in

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Speaker 1: our opening segment, I have no guests. I just want

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Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about my father, our story

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Speaker 1: together and uh, the story of fathers in in the

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Speaker 1: hunting culture. I mean, I think it's it's an important

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Speaker 1: thing coming up on Father's Day, just to talk about that,

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Speaker 1: and UM, I just want to tell you my story

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Speaker 1: a little bit, and so hopefully he'll stick around for that.

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Speaker 1: After that, we're gonna get into are one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite writers of all time, the great and powerful Eddie Nikins.

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Speaker 1: And Eddie Nickins is uh a writer for A Field, Stream, Garden,

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Speaker 1: a Gun, and many other publications. I met with him

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Speaker 1: in his home in North Carolina before. We did a

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Speaker 1: talk together on hunting ethics, and Eddie is an extremely intelligent,

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Speaker 1: thoughtful person man and just a good old Southern boy

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Speaker 1: to his roots. We talked about his own raising of

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Speaker 1: of kids outdoors and what he feels like that has

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Speaker 1: done for them and for him, and so a great conversation.

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Speaker 1: Please stick around for that here real real shortly, um,

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Speaker 1: and thanks to Eddie for hanging with us. But before

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Speaker 1: we get to that, I just want to talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about my dad. Because I just just got

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Speaker 1: back from some three days in the back country with

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Speaker 1: my dad hunting bears in Montana and also spending time

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Speaker 1: with my son and my dad and my family altogether.

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Speaker 1: And it strikes me that, you know, my dad and

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Speaker 1: I were walking through the mountains and I said something

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Speaker 1: to him was like, if you if I could transport

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Speaker 1: ten years back in time as I am now and

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Speaker 1: talk to myself ten years ago, my ten years ago

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Speaker 1: self would not have would not believe Would I believe

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Speaker 1: me if I told him where my life was today?

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Speaker 1: In so many ways, living in Montana, you know, having

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Speaker 1: a beautiful son and a wife, and having the job

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Speaker 1: that I do, and being around the people that I'm around,

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Speaker 1: it really has has been an incredible journey. And my

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Speaker 1: dad just kind of said, you earned it, you know,

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Speaker 1: you did it, And that got me to thinking a

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Speaker 1: lot of things, but it got me to thinking about

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Speaker 1: his role in all of it. No today, back then,

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Speaker 1: I started thinking about when I was twelve years old

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Speaker 1: and when I first started to desire to go hunting,

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Speaker 1: and how he shepherded me along and and honestly, I

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Speaker 1: don't remember the first moment that I thought I might

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Speaker 1: want to go hunting. But I just remember always wanted

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Speaker 1: to follow my dad, and it's something that he did. Now,

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Speaker 1: he didn't do it in the early days of my life.

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Speaker 1: He didn't do it as much because he was, like

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Speaker 1: many fathers, drawn away from hunting to take care of

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Speaker 1: his family, to work hard, to build something, to build

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Speaker 1: a family. He was drawn away from that. So as

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Speaker 1: a kid, I didn't get to see him running off

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Speaker 1: to go hunting a bunch. He did some, But in fact,

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Speaker 1: when I was born, my dad was hunting and he

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Speaker 1: came back from I don't think of ten days in

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Speaker 1: the wilderness, um running around, probably drinking beer, hunting deer,

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Speaker 1: and went into the delivery room and they made him

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Speaker 1: go stand in a little all closet like because he

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Speaker 1: smelled so bad. They didn't want him in the delivery room.

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Speaker 1: And so his what I was born, my dad was hunting.

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Speaker 1: He was, but he was drawn away from it a

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Speaker 1: little bit to take care of us, and and I

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Speaker 1: was able to kind of bring him back into it

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Speaker 1: with my own interests early on at you know, at

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Speaker 1: the age of ten, eleven, twelve, but twelve years old.

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Speaker 1: I remember being on this cold garage floor was October,

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Speaker 1: being on this cold garage floor with my dad and

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Speaker 1: our neighbor Bill Miller, and they were trying to determine

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Speaker 1: at what position I could best hold this to forty three,

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Speaker 1: the savage one ten and to forty three. I remember

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Speaker 1: that like it was yesterday, and I remember going to

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Speaker 1: the range and shooting that rifle. I remember my dad

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Speaker 1: being stressed out about how I could hold it, and

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Speaker 1: so he had shooting sticks and we were always messing

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Speaker 1: around with those. I remember talking about safety. I remember,

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Speaker 1: and these are all things I remember pretty vividly. When

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Speaker 1: the rest of my life comes in flashes, this is

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Speaker 1: vivid for me. Um. And at some level I knew

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was getting into, but I

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Speaker 1: knew that I would follow might be following my dad,

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Speaker 1: and that was all that matter. And so the other

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Speaker 1: thing I remember clearly is I had this orange Elmer

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Speaker 1: Fudd hat with like fuzzy flapped ears, and I had

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Speaker 1: a cover a pair of coveralls that if I was

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Speaker 1: wearing them hunting today people would would laugh at me,

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Speaker 1: but back then they were cool. Um. I remember, who

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Speaker 1: knows what boots I was wearing, but I was wearing

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Speaker 1: these coveralls and they were way too short, so my

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Speaker 1: I think my ankles probably showed they were frayed on

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Speaker 1: the edges. It was this old, dirty, mossy oak tree

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Speaker 1: bark deal. My dad would pack sandwiches and toast chee

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Speaker 1: peanut butter crackers in this little ruck sack, and we

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Speaker 1: will go hunt this private land. My first ever experience

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Speaker 1: with this was was um Maryland's Youth Hunting Day, which

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Speaker 1: was a week before the opener on a Saturday. It

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Speaker 1: was rightful, and I remember we lived in the suburbs

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Speaker 1: and we had this frosted stone walk that would lead

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Speaker 1: to the driveway, and across this frosted stone walk you

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Speaker 1: could see my neighbor's house. And Bill would be going

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Speaker 1: with us with a crew of other people. And I

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Speaker 1: remember standing on this frosted walking. My dad would be

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Speaker 1: in the kitchen making sandwiches, are getting getting things right here,

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Speaker 1: and and looking over and with so much anticipation to

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Speaker 1: see the garage door on my neighbor's house open, because

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Speaker 1: there was. I was so heightened. I was so ready

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Speaker 1: to go into something I had really no idea about.

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Speaker 1: I never seen a deer die, I had never seen

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Speaker 1: a deer gutted. I didn't really know what hunting them

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Speaker 1: looked like or felt like. But I was going anyway

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Speaker 1: because my first you know, I was old enough to

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Speaker 1: understand it. My dad had talked me through it, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know anything. So it was a different

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Speaker 1: kind of excitement. It was a different kind of hunting,

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Speaker 1: of course, following my dad and I remember, I remember

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Speaker 1: walking into the woods the first day. I remember how

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Speaker 1: it fell to be, you know, smaller than him and

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Speaker 1: him feeling larger than life, and I just had key

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Speaker 1: on his every move, what what he said, what he did,

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Speaker 1: um how he felt. We didn't kill a deer that day?

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Speaker 1: It was. There was a lot of follies And hopefully

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Speaker 1: I'll have him on the podcast and maybe Bill Miller

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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about those follies one day because they're

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Speaker 1: pretty funny and I'm so glad to have I'm glad

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Speaker 1: to have some of those memories. But it was like

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Speaker 1: those things that established my love of hunting. And I

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Speaker 1: think maybe later down the road, when I've done other

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Speaker 1: things didn't hunting, my dad has discovered some different things

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Speaker 1: as well. So it's a nice it's a nice spin

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Speaker 1: and it's a nice flip of the coin to have

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Speaker 1: to be able to bring him along this week in

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Speaker 1: Montana showing show him some of the things I've learned

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Speaker 1: over the years after I left the nest as it were,

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Speaker 1: ran around and did a bunch of things, and bring

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Speaker 1: him back and show him some of the things that

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Speaker 1: I've learned because I wasn't wouldn't be here without him.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be anywhere without him. You know, my mother

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Speaker 1: and the rest of our family, but particularly in Honeygo

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be here without him. He spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time showing me things, and it's still showing me things today.

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Speaker 1: And we won't hunt together for the rest of our days,

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Speaker 1: but the days that we've hunted together, the time we

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Speaker 1: have spent together um has introduced me to something that

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Speaker 1: is that has changed my life. So so thank you

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Speaker 1: to my dad and to everybody else else out there

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Speaker 1: listening that has had that experience. I'm sure you feel

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Speaker 1: the same way, and I would encourage you just to

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Speaker 1: take some time on Father's Day to express that. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm expressing it through podcast for him because my dad,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll listen to this, but but I express

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Speaker 1: that to your your people, whoever it is that took

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Speaker 1: you hunting. If it isn't your dad, whoever was that

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Speaker 1: that took you hunting, um and allowed you to kind

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Speaker 1: of see the world in the way a hunter might

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Speaker 1: see it. And I guess i'll close just in in general.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of people out there that

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Speaker 1: that didn't get the chance to hunt with their dads

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason like I have. Maybe you're an adult

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Speaker 1: onset hunter. Maybe you just got into it. Maybe your

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Speaker 1: dad just didn't didn't love it, and you and you

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Speaker 1: somehow found it. I met a lot of people that

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Speaker 1: have that story. UM, have that story and so continue

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Speaker 1: to pass it on. I don't think it's got to

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Speaker 1: be a father and a son. It could be a

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Speaker 1: mentor and a mentee. It could be anything. We talked

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Speaker 1: about that a lot on this podcast, and I feel

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Speaker 1: that strongly that just just taking somebody out you can

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Speaker 1: stoke their passion. Maybe they won't be into it, but

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Speaker 1: you could maybe stoke something that my dad stoked inside

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Speaker 1: of me to help me along. And UM, I get

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Speaker 1: pretty emotional back because it's changed my life. Hunting has

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Speaker 1: changed my life in a lot of ways, personally, professionally,

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Speaker 1: and on and on we go. So Um, thanks to

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Speaker 1: my dad. Thanks to all the dads out there for

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Speaker 1: doing what you do. Um, for for taking someone hunting.

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Speaker 1: It means a lot. It means a lot a lot

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Speaker 1: to me. And so I'll stop blabbering on. But I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to to address Father's Day and my dad.

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Speaker 1: Freaking love your dad. I love you so much. You're awesome.

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Speaker 1: All Right, we're gonna get into the interview portion of

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Speaker 1: this show, and like I said, it's a great man.

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Speaker 1: His name is Edward T. Nikins, and we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about a lot of things. So I'm gonna transport you

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Speaker 1: over to Raley, North Carolina for a conversation with Eddie T. Nikens.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy I ard, all is good man? How in your layer? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is the International Headquarters. Whatever happens happens here. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure how much of it is value, but this

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Speaker 1: is where it gets done. You know, I feel it

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Speaker 1: should be dirtier. Well, this is pretty neat and tidy

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Speaker 1: in here. It's real. It's real good, you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's got you got folders with labels on them. I

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Speaker 1: mean I've got folders, I've got stocks of looming deadlines. Um,

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Speaker 1: I have a post it notepad here that'll explain the

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Speaker 1: relative neatness. It says, one story at a time. This

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Speaker 1: is a new leaf that I turned over on Monday.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the new tricks. Yeah, we're a weekend

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Speaker 1: on that. Talk to me in a few days. We'll

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Speaker 1: check back in. That's a good that's a good reason.

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Speaker 1: Guest appearance number two. What else i'd say on your

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Speaker 1: posting notes? There anything? Uh? Sorry? At times? More of

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Speaker 1: a you know, it's an ideology, Yeah, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: sort of I've got this this sort of long term

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Speaker 1: project I've been thinking about. I'm calling it an honest

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Speaker 1: shrimp man. I love shrimp, and I eat a Polish shrimp,

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Speaker 1: and I want to eat shrimp feeling pretty good about it.

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Speaker 1: You gonna eat shrimp one way or the other, but

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Speaker 1: I want to eat shrimp healthy conscience. Yeah. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: they're living here in North Carolina, especially in Raleigh. We're

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Speaker 1: sort of coastly oriented. I got a little place, and

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Speaker 1: I mean a little place down at the coast, and um,

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Speaker 1: so we start thinking about those things of sustainable sourced seafood.

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Speaker 1: Uh see, yeah, shrimp man, we had a pole of shrimp.

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Speaker 1: I find it. Yeah, I finally in my life. You know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't grow I grew up in western Maryland, which

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Speaker 1: you know people think of Maryland, they think of crabs

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Speaker 1: in in the chesapike game. We were nowhere near that.

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Speaker 1: Um well, it was east west Virginia, you know. We

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Speaker 1: that's where That's where I grew up. And so you

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Speaker 1: know the furst. You move around the world, you start

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Speaker 1: to see other you said, think the coastal areas. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've heard oyster farms, shrimp, all the resources that are

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Speaker 1: on the coast of this country are important to think of.

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Speaker 1: And as a hunter, I'm kind of drawing to those

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Speaker 1: things from my hunting a big game, small game, whatever, Right,

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Speaker 1: you start to think of things as a resource. I

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Speaker 1: guess that's what I'm saying. And we've got that here.

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Speaker 1: I mean the salt water resource on the coast and

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Speaker 1: North Carolina with all the seafood. I mean, what's so

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Speaker 1: amazing is how how close and personal it is. So

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Speaker 1: you just pulled up here. I mean, if we you

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Speaker 1: walk up in my front door and you take a right,

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Speaker 1: and you drive two and a half hours and you're

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Speaker 1: on the longest stretch of uninhabited coastline in Eastern America.

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Speaker 1: You turn left and get three hours and three and

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Speaker 1: a half hours. You know, you're standing on top the

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Speaker 1: highest mountain east of the Mississippi. So when you think

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Speaker 1: about what places like this have in the South where

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Speaker 1: we sort of straddle these worlds between mountains and coast,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's a mind bogging. The opportunity is is

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Speaker 1: just phenomenal, and it's a great it's a great place

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Speaker 1: to be. Yeah. Now, as a as a ardent advocate

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Speaker 1: of the east Eastern seaboard or just the eastern side

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Speaker 1: of the country, as we were talking about before they record,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people put it on me as a

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Speaker 1: member of Meat Eat to keep it, keep it even

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Speaker 1: to continually slip in those Eastern sensibilities to our western

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Speaker 1: Bozeman offices. We have a few Midwesterners in there, but nobody,

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Speaker 1: nobody is strictly from the East until we hired Anton

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Speaker 1: Locata And now he's bringing a little uh that New

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Speaker 1: York flavor, Pennsylvania flavor to the conversation. So we're getting

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Speaker 1: it covered. But but that is something that we think about.

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Speaker 1: It the sensibility. I grew up much and the same

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Speaker 1: as you're talking about. We lived in western Maryland. But

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Speaker 1: we could take an hour and a half tribe and

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Speaker 1: be at the bay um blue crabs and oysters and

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Speaker 1: sea ducks and ducks and geese like you wouldn't believe. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so yeah, we we understood that there there's not

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Speaker 1: a lot of places where you can have those two

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Speaker 1: environments in such a short, you know, span of driving.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think here a lot of sportsmen tend

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Speaker 1: to be specialists in generalizing, right or or generalists and specializing.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure how that how that would work, but

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Speaker 1: you know we do. We do so much. I mean

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Speaker 1: from Labor Day until March we can hunt. You know,

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Speaker 1: we have a huge long deer season from early September

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Speaker 1: all the way uh to January. So I do think

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Speaker 1: I do think people tend to live live that lifestyle

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Speaker 1: year round, no doubt. But I think this East West thing,

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Speaker 1: you know, we we see that in in conservation activism

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Speaker 1: and politics, UM and advocacy. We see it in terms

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Speaker 1: of I mean, there is sort of the schism east

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Speaker 1: and east and west, you know, but but from the

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Speaker 1: eastern perspective, I mean the way the way that I

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Speaker 1: put it is is the West is critical to every

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Speaker 1: hunter and angler in North America, whether you whether you

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Speaker 1: involve yourself in Western hunting, or whether it's this sort

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Speaker 1: of aspirational idea. Right, you know all of the old

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Speaker 1: Remington's calendars, the old Winchester calendars, you know, it's this

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Speaker 1: these big scenes of hunter versus moose or elk or bear.

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Speaker 1: You don't see a lot of scrapping with squirrels and

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Speaker 1: woodcock on those old count Yeah. Yeah, So I think

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Speaker 1: it's important from an aspirational perspective. But I think Eastern

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Speaker 1: US hunters, uh, I still think we're sort of coming

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Speaker 1: into our own in terms of telling our own narrative

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Speaker 1: and telling and telling that story and not feeling like

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Speaker 1: it's always got to be the story of Eastern Eastern

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Speaker 1: hunters moving west. Well, and you think of about the Southeastern,

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Speaker 1: you know, you ready for gardening gun. You've written a

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Speaker 1: lot about things that are happening in the cultural significance

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Speaker 1: in the Southeast. When I think of the Southeast, I

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Speaker 1: think of that culture, right, this real distinct, real flavorful

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Speaker 1: culture that's aspirational. For that reason, it's not aspirational because

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Speaker 1: the big peaks that you might go in or or

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Speaker 1: we think of like bio diversity of game for hunters,

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Speaker 1: it's the culture that kind of wins through. That's why

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Speaker 1: I feel that, you know, a lot of your reality

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Speaker 1: TV shows are based in Louisiana because there's such a

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Speaker 1: rich culture that you can dig into there. Um. And

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Speaker 1: in the West, the visual can sometimes be as aspirational

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Speaker 1: as anything, no doubt. And you know, and that that

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Speaker 1: idea of sort of solo hunting in the West, you know,

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Speaker 1: putting yourself against the elements, putting yourself against that that

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Speaker 1: big game animal um, I think is fabulous um. And

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Speaker 1: we certainly have that. We certainly have that in the East.

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Speaker 1: But I think a little bit of lost a little

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Speaker 1: bit in the conversation or those hunters specifically who enjoy

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Speaker 1: the social aspects, you know. I mean, I'm I'm a

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Speaker 1: member of a of a hunting club, like a lot

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Speaker 1: of folks in this part of the world. You know,

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Speaker 1: we hunt public lands. But you know, I'm a member

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Speaker 1: of a hunting club. I drive fifty minutes east and

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Speaker 1: I've got thirty seven acres in a camp and swamps

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Speaker 1: and fields and woods and people that I love being

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Speaker 1: outdoors with. And you're a lot of our members they

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Speaker 1: probably don't step foot on public lands ever. But they're

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Speaker 1: a part of this conversation too. They're they're part of

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Speaker 1: this conservation movement as well. And I think you're right, Ben,

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Speaker 1: I think we've got to figure out a way to

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Speaker 1: to dovetail these in and celebrate the differences, but you

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Speaker 1: know a lot of commonalities as well. Yeah, And it's

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Speaker 1: it's hard I think in this this day and age

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Speaker 1: in our media space. You know this well that like

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Speaker 1: the aspirational in the digital space for sure, the aspirational.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to set beside each other like

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Speaker 1: a bugling bull elk coming down a ridge and you know,

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Speaker 1: whitetail walking on a fence row, a six point white

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Speaker 1: walking out of South Carolina fence round, you know something

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Speaker 1: like that. It's hard to put those two deside each other.

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Speaker 1: But we have to find ways to do that. Like

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Speaker 1: I said, I think I think there are certainly in

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Speaker 1: roads to to just making sure we're seeing all this perspective,

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Speaker 1: as hard as that is to do. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: think setting them beside each other maybe the maybe the challenge,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, these are each pursuits that are

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Speaker 1: worthy of their own merits um and so I do think,

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Speaker 1: I do think we have to be careful in this industry,

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Speaker 1: whether it's whether it's media, whether it's advertising, whether it's marketing,

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Speaker 1: that we we can't forget that that a not everyone

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Speaker 1: is a back country archer, being not everybody really wants

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Speaker 1: to be a back country archer. You know, there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks just as soon, you know, follow

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Speaker 1: their fish dog through the fall woods chasing squirrels, but

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Speaker 1: they've got as much a connection to our heritage as

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Speaker 1: any other hunter. Yeah, I think that the I've been

405
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Speaker 1: guilty of this a lot of thinking of some of

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Speaker 1: those heritages and his cultures is like Bubba culture less

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Speaker 1: intellectual than my culture, or less intellectual in the way

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Speaker 1: that I, you know, put my pursuits out there, the

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Speaker 1: way that I think of hunting, And that's some bullshit,

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Speaker 1: Like it's it's just is. I mean, the the the

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Speaker 1: way that our hunting is connected to the whatever you'll

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Speaker 1: define as Bubba culture, that's as inherent as somebody out

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Speaker 1: west who grew up on a ranch. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: just is you know, Bubba Bubba's aren't defined by their

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Speaker 1: driver's licenses, their their addresses, right. I do think that

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Speaker 1: this growing interest in intellectualizing our pursuits is going to

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Speaker 1: make all the boats rise in this tide. And I'm

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Speaker 1: thrilled to hear and to read and and to be

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Speaker 1: a small part of that conversation of some deep thinking

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Speaker 1: about what it means to be to be a hunter

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Speaker 1: and an angler in American society today. Because you know

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Speaker 1: a lot of the early deep thinkers, you know, we

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Speaker 1: hold up Aldo Leopold, you know, as as the patriarch

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Speaker 1: of this. You know, while he cut his teeth, well

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Speaker 1: he cut his teeth actually in the Midwest long before

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Speaker 1: he went he went out west, um, and when he

427
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: he didn't write much of his Western work until he

428
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: was back on his farm, um in the Midwest. So

429
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 1: it's an exciting time to be around to think about

430
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: what our sports, what our pursuits, you're gonna look like

431
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: in the next thirty fifty years, because in the last

432
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty fifty years then we didn't have these

433
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: kinds of conversations. And so I'm excited about that. That's

434
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 1: a little nerve wracking too, to think about the pressures,

435
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: there's no doubt, but it's it's fun and it's exciting,

436
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: and it's a positive that we're all kind of grappling

437
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 1: with this. Yeah, and I think you said it right.

438
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 1: It's a conversation, right, I saw. I so often get

439
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: people that will say, like, you didn't debate that guy

440
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: hard enough for you didn't. Well, we talked about a

441
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: lot of contentious issues on the show, and I purposefully,

442
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, I'm insane. Like if I see something

443
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: I think it's fraught with you know, entanglements and some

444
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: perils of our modern ways of thinking, I run towards

445
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: it and try to figure it out. That puts me

446
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: in a lot of crappy situations. But I think it

447
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: also elevates that we can have these conversations. We can have,

448
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: you know, we can take an issue that we didn't

449
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: my like my dad's generation didn't think about or didn't

450
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: vocalize if they were thinking about it, um, and have

451
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 1: that outright and and say this, you know, baiting or

452
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: you know whatever. You could just pick any of any

453
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: many subjects. Um, let's say we can have this conversation.

454
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: And it's the fact that we have the conversation that

455
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: will help us get down the road in ten, fifteen,

456
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: twenty years just to a comfortable place. If we ever

457
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: get there. But it's the openness that and especially now

458
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: as so much emphasis is going towards our three and

459
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: bringing on new hunters and new kinds of hunters, which

460
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: I fully support, and that's fabulous and I'm and I'm

461
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: thrilled to see some success in that. But you know,

462
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: we exist within this ecosystem of heritage in history, and

463
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: you and I can think about sporting ethics and it's

464
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 1: just sort of second nature, right. We think about not crossing,

465
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: and this is an ethical thing, but not crossing offense

466
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: with a gun in your hand. You know, we don't

467
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: even never occurs to us to deal with those kinds

468
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: of issues. You know, when you and I were coming up,

469
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: I mean I remember that the little cartoons of the

470
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: Ten Commandments of guns very yeah, you know, I remember

471
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: black and white ILOs and the first one was, you know,

472
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: was muzzle control. Don't point your gun at anything you

473
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: don't intend to shoot. Right. Well, I want to sound

474
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: like kids today, but kids today are raised from the

475
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: age of insanely young to point a gun and shoot

476
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: at the TV screen at the video games. I'm not

477
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 1: to go down that route, but but I'm fully convinced

478
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: that we're seeing that ramifications. Now we're bringing in these

479
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: new hunters and we need them, we want them, but

480
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: they don't have a little bit of a d n

481
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: A of what it means ethically and responsibility um to

482
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: be a part of this tribe. Yeah, and there's like

483
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: a I always think about it. I've been thinking lately

484
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: about baselines, Like where when I came into hunting, what

485
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: was the baseline of expectation for me or for anyone

486
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: around me? Like how we set that baseline? How do

487
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: we shift it? Move it up? I mean, we'd like

488
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: to always be moving forward, but that baseline is safer

489
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: and more responsible and more ethical, more thoughtful, more intelligent,

490
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: all the all the things you'd want to be as

491
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: a human or a hunter or whatever. But I think

492
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: about the baseline of or say, kind of at the

493
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: peak of growth of hunting, where we were, where our

494
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: baseline for what's acceptament? And then where we are now

495
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: and where we might be when my son is is

496
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: twenty five or you know, in twenty some years, when

497
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: he's that's where he is. So I wonder about that

498
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: baseline where how do you how have you seen it change?

499
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a certainly always changing. It's just

500
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: a perspective thing. But there there is a perceived baseline there.

501
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,719
Speaker 1: I mean I think there is a perceived baseline. I

502
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: think it was it was just sort of the coin

503
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: of the realm when we were growing up. You know,

504
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: if you hunted, if you fished, you were handed down

505
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: these traditions, and so there was a bit of an

506
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: indoctrination process from your elders. Right. So so the challenge

507
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: that we face today, and the opportunity as well, is

508
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: when that in doctor nation phase is taken out of equation,

509
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 1: you know, what do we do? You know, I see

510
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: this at our hunting club down east, right. So my

511
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: son is just getting ready to turn twenty. So when

512
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: we joined that club, there were probably four or five

513
00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: members there, parents and kids, and they came into hunting.

514
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: The dads had never hunted in their life. I never

515
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: thought they would hunt, could have cared less about learning

516
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: how to hunt, but their sons wanted it so badly

517
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: that what that how what happened is is they were

518
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: willing to learn to help their son reach their passion

519
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: or their or their daughter reach their passion. And so

520
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: what we're seeing is younger generations reaching up and pulling

521
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: older generations into our tradition. It's a d eighty degree

522
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: flip from what you and I saw. And so that's

523
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: an enormous opportunity and I think it's a fleeting opportunity

524
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: and one who really need to take advantage of right now.

525
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: But it also is the challenge of when we've got now,

526
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: we've got young hunters and old hunters, and neither one

527
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: of them really understand, right they don't really understand through

528
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: no fault to their own with the North American model

529
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: of wildlife conservation is they shared it and grow up,

530
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: you know, looking at the Ten Commandments of gun safety cartoons, um,

531
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: the block of fur fishing game magazine. So that's that's

532
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: the plate we have set in front of us, right

533
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: And I think that's why when we talk about making

534
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: sure we've we've thought through and presented all the perspectives east, west, north, whatever,

535
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: that's important because people are gonna Hunting is such a

536
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: culturally varied thing that we do. It's impossible to line

537
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: it up for somebody say this is what it is,

538
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: because they're always going to run into something they didn't

539
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: that was outside their pur view when they learned whether

540
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: they're forty five when they learned, or their ten when

541
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: they learned, They're always going to run into something. And

542
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: that's why you know, we're gonna um do a little

543
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: talk later on for the b h A group here

544
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: and Raleigh, and a lot of it will be about that,

545
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: Like we're there is no way that you can go

546
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: hunting and not be faced with some sort of like

547
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: internal crisis. Yeah, whether there's someone with you or you're

548
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: by yourself, whatever, you get to make a decision of

549
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: do I do this thing or not? And it's got

550
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: fairly grave circule stances attached to it. And a lot

551
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: of those decisions are being made a bit in a

552
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: vacuum right now, or maybe they weren't um in earlier

553
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: generations where there was just sort of the more more

554
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: context I guess, um. But again, I'm just I am

555
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: stoked that these kinds of conversation is the one you

556
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,719
Speaker 1: and I are having right now, when we're gonna have

557
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: later um at this at this ethics forum. They're they're

558
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: just they're taking place more and more often. But I'd

559
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: like to I'd like to see within the industry and

560
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: effort to to to reach out to some of the

561
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: two clubs organizations and and help them understand why we

562
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: don't want to necessarily codify sporting ethics for everyone. This

563
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: is a This is a conversation that needs to take place,

564
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: and needs to take place more than you know, the

565
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: few minutes you're gonna get in a hunter education course. Yeah, yeah,

566
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,239
Speaker 1: and it's it. And just to frame it up for

567
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: folks somehow, like at least try to set it up

568
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: in a way that like, here is how you can

569
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: make your decisions if you're wondering maybe a good way

570
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: to get from from Oh I have a bow in

571
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: my hand. Oh there's a deer too. I'm sending an arrow.

572
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: Like how do you get you know, from A to

573
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: B two B to see it on on down the road?

574
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: Like I never had that. I made a lot of

575
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: crappy decisions because I didn't never have it. So if

576
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: we could somehow provide it the folks, I think that

577
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: would be you know, beneficial. But how do we do it?

578
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: What's the way to do it? Well? I mean, I

579
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: think it comes from strong mentors, you know, in folks

580
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: stepping up and stepping out. Um, but it's tough. It's

581
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: tough to look at your buddy and go, really, yeah,

582
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: fifty yards shot two or fifty yards shot? Hundred and

583
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: seventy five yards shot and it's the only shot you're

584
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: gonna take all year long with a rifle. You getting

585
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: picked up from last year? What are you thinking? Yeah,

586
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: you're that's so, that's a hundred percent. I had We

587
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: had a guy come up at BJ and say, my buddies,

588
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: I'm hunting with my buddy. He's a bit of a like,

589
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: he just wants to he's doing it for the Graham

590
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: and he is. I'm uncomfortab hunting with him just because

591
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: of the way that I see that he acts and

592
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 1: kind of the results of his actions. And my first

593
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: reaction is like, well then just just don't go with

594
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: him anymore. Um, he said, wasn't my best friend? I said, well,

595
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: you're in the you're one of the only folks in

596
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: a situation to set this ship straight. But it ain't

597
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: gonna be comfortable at all. Um, but you're one of

598
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: the only folks I could probably go through like you're

599
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,479
Speaker 1: one of my best friends and you're acting like this

600
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: isn't the way to go. Um, that's tough, man. Nobody

601
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: wants to nanny another fun or and I don't want

602
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: to if everybody came up to me and said, hey,

603
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: we're like, get peace, get out of here. Man. Yeah,

604
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: I have a podcast, you know, many people. There's only

605
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: a thousand of us standing in this room of a

606
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: thousand people. But it's tough, you know. I don't hesitate

607
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: ever to tell someone when they've pointed their gun muzzle

608
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: at me. Hunt right, I've made that decision long ago.

609
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: Just say hey, you know, I just want you to

610
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 1: know what you did. And let's you know, because I'm

611
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure I've done it, done it to others, and

612
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 1: I want people to point it out to me. Although

613
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: I try to think that I'm always aware of moz,

614
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: so it's it's not a far step to go to

615
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: the next level and go, okay, when I see behaviors that,

616
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: let's don't say they're questionable. Let's let's certainly don't say

617
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: they're wrong, but they demand thoughtful reflection. How do you

618
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: how do you approach that? You know that the hunters

619
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: who who I mean? And I hear it all the time.

620
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: Oh it's two d yards shy. I just thought give

621
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: it a crack, you know, and I missed, you know,

622
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: there's a much higher chance that you actually wounded that

623
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: dear than you ever missed that dear, and so thinking

624
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: of it in those terms may help. But it is

625
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: tough to wag that finger and go, we need to

626
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 1: do it my way, right, That's what we're gonna talk

627
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 1: about tonight. But it is a tough sea. It's tough.

628
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 1: I you know, I get I think I personally get

629
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 1: it a lot or people. So how who are you

630
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: to talk about that? I said, I'm no, I'm nobody.

631
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: I literally am nobody. But I would I would like

632
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: to think that that just by bringing it up and

633
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: allowing you the opportunity to disagree with me on these things,

634
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 1: that we're starting some some sort of new dialogue as

635
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: to how we get to the endpoint Like who am I?

636
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just the guy bringing it up. You know,

637
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 1: hopefully more folks want to continue to bring it up

638
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: in their circles. But I think to your point, if

639
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: you're the guy in the group that is kind of

640
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: the arbiter of some of these situations and you're seeing

641
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: and respected as that, you then internalize that and become

642
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: more ethically yourself. I feel like you have to. You're

643
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: thinking of well, if I'm going to be the guy

644
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: who's saying watch your muzzle, I better damn well watch

645
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: my muzzle. Um, and I'm in the woods, so I

646
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 1: think it. There's there's a kind of a dual effect

647
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: to having that position. And this is a bit of

648
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: a modern construct as well, because we're all hesitant to

649
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: hurt anyone's feelings and to be considered. You know, they

650
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: know it all, you know, back in the day, you know,

651
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: the deer camps of your you know, old old old

652
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: Ben didn't mind a bit busting your chops if if,

653
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: if you did something that that was untoward. And so

654
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: maybe there's a little bit of that as well. But

655
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: it's a matter of framing this in a modern way,

656
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: like we're all we all understand through social media and

657
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: everything else, that hunting is under a brighter spotlight, and

658
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: so it's on its incumbents on all of us, you me,

659
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: as experienced as we are, to look at how we

660
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: approached this and some of the decisions we've made and

661
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: just ask ourselves, is there a way to improve, Is

662
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: there a way to is there a way to have

663
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: a more thoughtful approach to hunting and fishing? Yeah, No,

664
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: I mean I had high situation turkey hunting here not

665
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: long ago, where I had a brain new shotgun that

666
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: was came from weather Be Incorporated. That's a sponsor alert.

667
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: That's uh, the new A ten I that's that they

668
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: gave me to use as a fantastic shotgun. These just

669
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 1: pull a star. That's industry talk, guys before we get

670
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: free stuff. Um well, I had it and I just

671
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: didn't take the time to put a sling on it.

672
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: And then as I'm walking around with another person in

673
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 1: the woods, I realized without a sling, there's all these

674
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: other ways to hold a shotgun that that caused a

675
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: lot of muzzle control issues. And as I'm walking around

676
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: with it in my hand, just holding a kind of

677
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: horizontal to the comparallel to the ground. As I'm walking,

678
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: I realized, somebody walks in front of me, I'm immediately

679
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 1: doing that. So if I hold it against my shoulder,

680
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 1: if somebody's behind me to the left, especially if you're

681
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: in you know, out in the west where people are

682
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: different elevations, you're walking nick kind of whether you're hunting partners.

683
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: So I realized, like, hey, if I had a sling,

684
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: I kind of know this thing stable. I know where

685
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: the barrel is pointed. So sometimes I just realized walking

686
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: around I was still, you know what, I feel safe

687
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: with my muzzle. But I just feel like, oh, that's

688
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: one little step that I can do to make sure

689
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: that I don't have eight different ways to carry this

690
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: shotgun that are comfortable on long totes. So you know.

691
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: And actually, in the last hunt I did this year,

692
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 1: I just carried I don't even load it. I just

693
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: carried it with the action open because I'm like, it's

694
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: just there's too many variables here. I'm just not gonna

695
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 1: do it. Um. And truthfully, these are these are almost

696
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 1: the easy questions, right, I mean they're they're the ones

697
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: that are fraggt because we're talking about guns safe to hear.

698
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: But when we move into the real ethical conundrums of

699
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 1: of the aesthetics of the hunt versus the ethics of

700
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: the hunt, um, it's it's thorny, stoney ground, Yeah it is.

701
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: And it's I'm I've been inheartened by people's people listen

702
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: to this thing. Every week. I often bring up some

703
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: of the same issues with different people, and that's I

704
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: think that's the idea is to collect perspectives from around

705
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: the country of people that are various expertises and skill

706
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: levels of of what it really means to them, Like

707
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: what what is this to to someone sitting in North

708
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: Carolina as opposed to someone sitting in Texas as opposed

709
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: to I Mean, there's such a tapestry of perspective that

710
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: you can go pick from. And if you can really

711
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 1: understand that that you and I go hunting, there might

712
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: be some things that I do, do you think are unsafe?

713
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: Have been doing my whole life, and they're they're folks

714
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: out west that just that's just what you do. Um,

715
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: So it's good to just have that in your mind

716
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 1: and just try to try to judge a situation rather

717
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 1: than just you know, always bring your own perspectives to it.

718
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: That certainly helped me. And even like I said, even

719
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: this year, I've I just realized a few things are like, Okay,

720
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 1: each year I'm gonna learn something, hopefully learn many things. Yeah,

721
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: we can't approach this thinking that we got it all

722
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: all figured out. I Mean, every new technology brings another

723
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: ethical quandary, and that's like there's never there's never been

724
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: a time we're like we've been able to hunt. It's

725
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 1: it's never been undisturbed, it's never been unmoved or always

726
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: moving it well, and it seems like we're always moving

727
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: it forward. Some of us like to move it back

728
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: when we take a recurve bell or a self boll out,

729
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: we were trying to move it back to where it was.

730
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: But that baseline is always shifting around always technology does

731
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 1: it are in personal feelings towards what we're doing to it.

732
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: That's we're all it's always moving, it's moving underneath us

733
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: as we go. Um. And that's something that I've I've

734
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 1: certainly come to know and learn. It's like it's if

735
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: you if you think it's all like you're you're going

736
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 1: to be the center point of the activity, you're wrong

737
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: and you're always going to be either moving with it

738
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: or against it. Yeah, and what the it is is important, right.

739
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think in this this modern period

740
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: where there's so much emphasis on of self actualization and

741
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: you're doing the right thing for you and don't worry

742
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: about if it's the right thing for anyone else, and

743
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 1: I think I think some of that can creep into

744
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: sporting ethics as well. That I'm making this decision because

745
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: it's right for me at this particular point in time,

746
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: and none of these externalities really entering the equation. Well,

747
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: I applaud that sort of individualistic streak. You know, the

748
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: heritage of sporting ethics does not. There's not in when

749
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: you look at Aldo Leopold's writing, and some of his

750
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: quotes are are the ones that are that are used

751
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: to sort of underscore this notion of you now you

752
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: are alone, your behavior when you are alone? Is is

753
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: that the defining aspect of sporting ethics? But but in

754
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: his later writings he went on to really sort of

755
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: evolve that perspective that that ethics only exist in a

756
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 1: in a community of other perspectives. Um and I think

757
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: I think we're definitely seeing that these days and the

758
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: ramifications of that in our in our passion right there

759
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: only wordy when compared to one another, like it's it's

760
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 1: this thing I'm doing is okay for me, and you're

761
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:14,919
Speaker 1: doing it over here, and there's a hundred other people

762
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: that are appalled by it. Like that's only that comparison

763
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 1: is important, right, It's important for all of us to understand,

764
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: you know. That's that's where he gets sticky at at

765
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: somebody email me email in the other day about you know,

766
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: is the discussion that I've been having muddying the waters?

767
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: Like is this the presentation of is it legal or illegal? Well,

768
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: if it's if it's legal, it's a different conversation. If

769
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: it's made have been made to be illegal, you just

770
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: don't do it. That's how this works. We've kind of

771
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: we have a social contract that says, right, we've construct

772
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: a way to act that the illegal is by default

773
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: un ethical now and then and that's where it's like, well,

774
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: that's muddy in the waters. That's not always true. As

775
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: look this this we've already we've already admitted this conversation

776
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: to be almost impossibly entangled. Let's not let's not entangle

777
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 1: it further by. We're looking at state by state laws

778
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: and seeing if if we feel in the modern sense,

779
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,920
Speaker 1: they're ethical. We we just let's I understand that that

780
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: is a reality. Let's leave it off the table for now.

781
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 1: So there's just there's you know, folks that would want

782
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: to work on the edges. But there's so much like

783
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 1: this conversation that's kind of like right down the middle,

784
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 1: like what the hell are you doing? How are people

785
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 1: reacting to it, and at the end of the day

786
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: you feel comfortable with what you've done. You know, and

787
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 1: and feel feel that it's good and right, and a

788
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff, Like I tell my kids, you know,

789
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: if you if you do a decent job of bringing

790
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: up your children, they get to the age to where

791
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: the discussion isn't what was the right way to behave

792
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 1: and what was the wrong way to behave? I mean

793
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: we at some point the discussion is what did you choose?

794
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: Which road did you go down? And why? You know,

795
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: a lot of these things, even with the hunting, I

796
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,759
Speaker 1: think if people understood the broader context, a lot of

797
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: these real sticky issues. You know, it's shooting at long ranges,

798
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: which is which is not an issue at all if

799
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 1: you have the skills to do it. Um. But a

800
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 1: lot of these things will sort of go by the

801
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: waist or we'll we'll handle them, um in a meaningful

802
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: way with a little bit more discussion and understanding UM.

803
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: Because you know, most of the time, when you're an adult,

804
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: it's not a matter of knowing what's right and wrong right,

805
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: it's it's having the guts and gumption to choose the

806
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: right thing when you really, really, really I want to

807
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: shoot that bucket fo Yeah, and then when it becomes

808
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: something different than what it really is, it's just a

809
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: living breathing thing that you intend to like. It's a

810
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: really it's we we talked about it in a lot

811
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 1: of ways. It's a resource, it's this, it's that, But

812
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 1: it's really when it comes down to, it's a living

813
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: breathing being standing across from you somewhere. And I know

814
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: you agree with me on this. You know, I don't harvest.

815
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I kill animals, you know, I think there's

816
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 1: a level of honesty. And you've talked about this. We

817
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: don't need necessarily go down that road, but I do

818
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,439
Speaker 1: think that helps us understand the sort of level of responsibility. Yeah,

819
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: and I think if we can get to We've had

820
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of these same conversations around women

821
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 1: and hunting, around you know, how we speak about how

822
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: what we call ourselves sportsmen's sports, women's sports, people, Like,

823
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: a lot of people are all spun up on this

824
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: right now, what we call ourselves, you know, what's the

825
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: proper name to call our community? Um, it's all I

826
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 1: think it's a good point to say, it's all about

827
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: kind of getting to what what's really I think the

828
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: greatest society expects us to be honest with them, but

829
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: what we're doing and I and we you and I

830
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: both know like say, not to be labor, but that

831
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: the harvest thing came from a re like I'm a

832
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: remark kidding of what we're doing, not you know, not

833
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: a real sense of being truly honest with what what

834
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: we're pursuing. And so I say, let's move this conversation

835
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: as a as an industry into helping people understand why

836
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: we do this and what we're doing so we can

837
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: be honest and say we're taking a life to give life.

838
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,399
Speaker 1: And this is why, Um, I've never have you ever

839
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: had you know, I've become the the guy at the

840
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: dinner party that if there's a vegan there, they set

841
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: him by me, or like you know, I'm always hey,

842
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: this guy's a hunter, tell him why, you know, to

843
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: become the that guy, And um, I don't mind it.

844
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: I like it. But at you know, at some level,

845
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: that's that's where we are, Like we have all of

846
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: us have the opportunity to some of us more than others,

847
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, tell that story and and it seem like

848
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: mental masturbation to be having these conversations over and over

849
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 1: and over again. But each time you do it, you

850
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: just like sharpening a knife. Like when someone asked you

851
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: a very tough but obvious question, you should you should

852
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: have a very simple answer for it. You know, why

853
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: do you kill things? O? Um, eating him? But why

854
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: do you go off for ten days? And like why

855
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: are you so that there's this like cascade of questions

856
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,439
Speaker 1: that someone who doesn't understand what you're doing could ask,

857
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 1: could answer you or ask you. And I think your

858
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: answers inform how much you've really thought about it. I

859
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: think a lot of us, me included, for a lot

860
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: of years, didn't really think about it all that much

861
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: and weren't ever asked to think about it all that

862
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: much because for a lot of us, it was just

863
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: what a lot of other people did. There. We're raising

864
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: kids in the city. So we're here in Raleigh, UM,

865
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: a pretty big city. Yeah, we should set it up.

866
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: You have a son and a daughter, uh, Jack and Markey.

867
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 1: My son is about it turned twenty. My daughter Marky Man,

868
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to get this right. She's twenty. She's about

869
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: to turn twenty three. Um, all of them here in

870
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 1: the next in the next month, Yeah, and so and

871
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,439
Speaker 1: and Markey is not hunt and Jack is like deep

872
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: in hunting and fishing. Jack is deep in hunting and fishing.

873
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: Marky does not hunt. I took market hunting plenty when

874
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: she was young. Um, and I've written about this. And

875
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,720
Speaker 1: she was totally enamored of the hole in the tree

876
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: stand and watching. But you know she was gonna be

877
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: watching at Bobcat hanging out on the log right. Um.

878
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 1: And so it became pretty clear fairly early that hunting

879
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 1: and fishing weren't her things. But since my whole family

880
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: we camped and we backpacked and them and you can

881
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 1: see him, it was just this whole environment is what

882
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: they what they grew up in. She and I had

883
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: this whole other life as a journalist, a sort of. Um.

884
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 1: I'm a contribute editor for Audubon Magazine, and I've done

885
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: a lot of work in Central America. For some reason,

886
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 1: although I speak zero Spanish, for seven or eight years,

887
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 1: I had a lot of work, uh in Central America

888
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: for Audubon magazine. And so, whereas Jack was always going

889
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing with me, I hauled Marquis to the

890
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: most god awful places in Costa Rica and Honduras and

891
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: even north into northern Quebec and so and I firmly

892
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: believed that she was able to enjoy that and appreciate

893
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: that and make that a part of her life because

894
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: she grew up sort of with the rigors of camping

895
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: and with with with getting up early and going hunting.

896
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,120
Speaker 1: And I remember one of the few times when as parents,

897
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: Julie and I would look at ourselves and we'd say

898
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 1: we did a good thing was we were picking to

899
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: go somewhere. I can't even remember where it was. Um,

900
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: and Mark was upstairs. She was a little she was

901
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: a little little slip of girl, and she hollered down

902
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: from upstairs, Mommy, am I gonna pepee inside or outside?

903
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: That's all she needed to know to pick. She could

904
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: sleep in a tent, she could sleep in a hotel room. Um.

905
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: They were like, yes, we did something right. Um. It

906
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: wasn't long after that that Jack Hollard down asking if

907
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: he could take his hatchet to Sunday school. And that

908
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: was one of the times we worked at each other

909
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:27,919
Speaker 1: thought and we still we still got a little work. Yeah,

910
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: I think it's I grew up in a house like that.

911
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: My brother never never got into hunting, and I did,

912
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: of course, And you know, you you look back at

913
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 1: that and him and I an you know, kind of

914
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: the same guy, and just except for that, it's it's hilarious,

915
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: kind of hilariously similar things we're interested in. And just

916
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,399
Speaker 1: like the diverged it that I would guess that it's

917
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: just he by the time my dad really took me

918
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: when I was twelve or thirteen, But by the time

919
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: my brother would have got into it as well, he

920
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: was into other of things. This is like just never

921
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: happened for him. If we could, if if we could

922
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: go back in time, knowing what I know now, I'd

923
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: be like, hey, man, you really need to come along,

924
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: like you really need to be a part of this,

925
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: because you're gonna be You're missing something. But at that time,

926
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: it was just I did this and he did. He

927
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: did sports and girls and I did hunting and girls.

928
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: When I can get to it, that that's what it was. You.

929
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 1: So you don't really know those things the verge, don't.

930
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 1: You don't know. And you know, doing what I do

931
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: for a living, you know, A hunted and fished just

932
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, and and I would hunt and

933
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 1: fish for work, and I'd come home after an assignment,

934
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 1: well that was work. I was ready to go hunting

935
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: and fishing. Thankfully, I I'm married someone who understood you

936
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: understood that. Um. But some of the best advice that Julie,

937
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: my wife, ever gave me, and she had to give

938
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: it to me a lot over the years, was to

939
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: meet these kids where they were. You know, we want

940
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 1: them to experience the world that we love, but but

941
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: not everybody's wired for it. Um and And with Jack

942
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,399
Speaker 1: and I made some big mistakes with Jack early on

943
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing, no no question about it. Almost lost

944
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 1: him to hunting early on. UM with but with Marquis,

945
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: you know, what was important was getting her outside and

946
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: having that father daughter relationship that even now is pretty rare,

947
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: I think. And the fact that we ended up traveling

948
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: so much together just her and I over the years

949
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: has paid enormous enormous benefits UM in terms of our

950
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: level of communication and our relationship. But but it was

951
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: always I was always trying to get them to the

952
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: next level of whatever I want to do, you know,

953
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: and you gotta meet him where they are, to meet

954
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 1: him where they are. Yeah, my son currently would be

955
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: like dinosaurs, gonna meet him at dinosaurs, which we do.

956
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 1: We do a lot, We do a lot of dinosaurs.

957
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, and I think that's good, great advice. Do

958
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,359
Speaker 1: you feel, and your kids are pretty close in asel,

959
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,919
Speaker 1: I say, three three years, do you feel that there

960
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: was ever a time where you realize that they were

961
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: that different that you you know that you had to

962
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: handle one one way? I mean, you've kind of alluded

963
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: to it, but do you remember making a conscious choice

964
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: to kind of foster one's hunting and one's, uh more

965
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: just love of out being outside. Yeah. I had my

966
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: daughter and I had this thing called Daddy Daughter Deer

967
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 1: Camp where we would go slum it up in a

968
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 1: little mom and pop motel and and deer hunt at

969
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: the at the least that I had was about it

970
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: was about an hour away. It didn't have a honey

971
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: camp on it, so we stayed at this little hotel.

972
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: And I remember one day they were they were harvesting

973
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: sweet potatoes in the field, and she was totally enamored

974
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: of the whole process, and we must have come back

975
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: with eighty pounds of sweet potatoes and never even I

976
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 1: don't even think we hunted that morning, and I talked

977
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: to her about this and said, you, Margie, you you're

978
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: a whole lot more interested in hanging around, you know,

979
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: with the with the potato farmers than you were and

980
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: being in a tree stand. And and she started to

981
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 1: help me realize that it just it just wasn't it

982
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: just wasn't there. But but I was already doing so

983
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: much hunting with Jack that I recognized, you know, I

984
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: recognized that I needed to be proactive with my daughter.

985
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 1: So that's when I started. Every every year since she

986
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 1: was a little girl, she and I have traveled somewhere,

987
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 1: just the two of us for four or five, six, seven,

988
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,400
Speaker 1: eight days, and that's that's that's been our thing. And

989
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: so that's that's important. But I do remember with Jack,

990
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: you know, I took him deer hunting when he was little,

991
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: too little, for too long, you know, when deer hunting

992
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,760
Speaker 1: with a year old boring one night cold here was boring.

993
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: It's just an exercise, and you know, sit down, don't move,

994
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: shut up, don't scratch, don't don't don't don't don't, you know,

995
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: And he didn't want to disappoint me. And I didn't

996
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 1: learn about this until several years after all this, and

997
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 1: he he just he got to where he just couldn't

998
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: stand to go. But he wouldn't. He was not going

999
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: to tell me no. So I took him duck hunting

1000
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: one time, and Ben, I remember, we were standing in

1001
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: the swamp and I looked over and he was doing this.

1002
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: He was moving his index finger almost imperceptibly to scratch

1003
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: his nose because he knew if he moved it fast,

1004
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: I'd be on him like I wasn't at tree stand right,

1005
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: And I said, you know, Jack, when you're duck hunting,

1006
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: you can scratch your chit chat, eat, eat a granola bar.

1007
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 1: And honestly, I just I saw the wait just lift

1008
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: off his shoulders, you know. And so when years to come,

1009
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: I have to say, you know, Jack, just because you

1010
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: can talk in a duck blind doesn't mean you have

1011
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: to always talk in a dug line. But ever since then,

1012
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 1: it was feathers for him. You know, he's still good

1013
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: deer hunting, and he's he may come back to it.

1014
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:19,919
Speaker 1: He started to he started to make some noise about

1015
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: coming back to it. But from then on it was

1016
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: birds and shotguns and shooting. You like to shoot. Squirrels

1017
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,839
Speaker 1: were good too, but yeah, you've got to figure out,

1018
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: you know what trips the trigger. That's good insight too.

1019
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: It's like you you wonder if it's the chicken or

1020
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: the egg? Are you are you out there doing things

1021
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 1: to find it? Or you know, is the is the

1022
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: opposite true? You know? How do you know it's Is

1023
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: it always there and you're just trying to get out

1024
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 1: of get everything else out of the way to get

1025
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: get it. I wonder that about I haven't, I guess

1026
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,799
Speaker 1: a generalist mentality. I just love doing it all. I don't.

1027
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 1: I haven't found any one thing. I could probably rank them. Um,

1028
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 1: turkey hunting currently is like the thing, but I wouldn't

1029
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: if you suddenly said, hey, I gotta here's a duck

1030
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:06,399
Speaker 1: boat and a bunch of decoys and somebody to teach

1031
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 1: you how to call like a champion. Be just as

1032
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 1: into that as anything else. So I've always I feel

1033
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,360
Speaker 1: like I'm lucky that way. But there's some people that

1034
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: are just you know, doing that chicken or the egg dance,

1035
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: you know. And I figured out early enough that what

1036
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: I wanted them to leave the woods with was the

1037
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: feeling that God, that was amazing, that was so much fun.

1038
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: I can't wait to go back. And if that meant

1039
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: the squirrel hunt was over in three minutes after a

1040
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: legal shooting light and we spent the rest of the

1041
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: morning shooting sickamore balls in the creek, then that's what

1042
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: it meant. Um. But yeah, you know, I minute doing

1043
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: what I do. I'm I'm terribly goal oriented, and that's

1044
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 1: a terrible way to bring up kids. I'm I'm super

1045
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 1: thankful that I learned that earlier. I'm super thankful I

1046
00:57:56,080 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: had a wife that helped me learned that. One thing

1047
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: I I learned from well I learned it from multiple people,

1048
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: but I learned from my dad's. Like he my dad

1049
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: wasn't really let's say, like you know, gear oriented. You know,

1050
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: he had a lot of I mean, he is a

1051
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: guy that kind of knew the natural world ends and out, birds, trees, whatever, um,

1052
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 1: but just you know, didn't really ever change his oil.

1053
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: But I had a neighbor who was kind of a

1054
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 1: little bit the opposite, didn't really know, you know, I

1055
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: didn't know trees, birds, whatever. He was. He was all

1056
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: kind of you know, get your hands dirty. So I

1057
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: had my dad very much let me go with him

1058
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,919
Speaker 1: to go change my oil. To do certain certain things.

1059
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: I think my dad recognized like what he could bring,

1060
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 1: and I think I remember later on, I'll tell his

1061
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 1: story just to make my parents proud. I gotta Early

1062
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: on in my driving career, I got what they call

1063
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: it like h d y kind of thing. It wasn't

1064
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: even to do. I think it was just had a

1065
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: beer in the car and I wasn't old enough to

1066
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 1: have one. So I had to go to a class

1067
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: and would like so I didn't get in trouble, one

1068
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: of those like scared straight type class. And so I

1069
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: went there and my dad was said with me. They

1070
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: were interviewing me about kind of like my influences were

1071
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: good and bad. And I remember my dad saying, they saying,

1072
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: you know, other than your father, is there an influence

1073
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: positive influence in your life that you would call a mentor,

1074
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: Like yeah, man, Bill Miller's my neighbors. This is I

1075
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: remember like looking at my dad and then looking at

1076
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: me like, yeah, you understand that. You know this other

1077
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: influences is important? Did you gotta have that for your kids?

1078
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 1: Are like if you didn't, do you wish you did?

1079
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 1: Like how how did that go for them? With their life?

1080
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: Have other influenced other influences. Um, that's an interesting question

1081
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 1: because they didn't have a lot of other influences in

1082
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: terms of the outdoors. My father died when I was

1083
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 1: a kid, so they didn't really have that sort of grandfather, uncles, aunts,

1084
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: other family members. Um. So in terms of bringing them

1085
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: up with a with a love of the outdoors, it

1086
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: was it was Julie and I. I mean, because Julie

1087
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,919
Speaker 1: loves the loves to camp, loves to hike. I used

1088
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: to love to backpack, um. And we were constantly taking

1089
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 1: the kids out. I mean that's what you know when

1090
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: you when you look at a family's budget, you can

1091
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: kind of figure out what they what they think is important. Right,

1092
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 1: how much of their mortgages going to their house payment,

1093
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 1: how much of it is going to their car payment.

1094
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: And we love to travel. That's where we spend our

1095
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: family money on, you know, and we were very intentional

1096
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: about that. Um. And so I think I think that

1097
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: probably had as much of an influence on then these others.

1098
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 1: I lament the fact that that my kids didn't have

1099
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 1: the older generation in front of them, and frankly, Julie

1100
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: and I probably overcompensated in ways because they because they

1101
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: didn't have that, but they they seem to have turned

1102
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: out okay. Right now, they're on the boat at Cape

1103
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: Lookout maybe maybe coming back. And I hadn't gotten a

1104
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: I hadn't got a note from the coach guard. The answer,

1105
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 1: I'm thinking we did something okay, but they're still there's

1106
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 1: still time for that to go south. Oh, we've been

1107
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: looking at it, like looking at I don't know if

1108
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 1: it's been intentional here lately, Ronnella and I and you're honestly,

1109
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: it was kind of triggered by Steve asking one one

1110
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 1: live podcast we did. Steve asked question like what did

1111
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 1: your dad teach you and hunting that you carry with you?

1112
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: And we all answered kind of I think, well like

1113
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: the pat answer, and we all had something because our

1114
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 1: dads are all very involved in our and our upbringing

1115
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 1: out doors. And then the next couple weeks later, we're

1116
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 1: at a show and he asked, what did your mom

1117
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 1: do all right? Somebody written in like, wait a minute,

1118
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: is that only the father here? Like a non hunch

1119
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 1: of right in, Like I don't understand why you never

1120
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 1: talked about any other influences or at least you focus

1121
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:57,919
Speaker 1: so heavy on on that that the influences of your father,

1122
01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: and we started to then answer, like, what did your

1123
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: mother they're doing All of us were kind of uh uh,

1124
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 1: and then we I could just see I was looking

1125
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 1: at the other guys up there, and I could see

1126
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: that like things were sparkling in their heads that they've

1127
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: never thought of before. And it was interesting to me

1128
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: to just kind of think about those influences. How, you know,

1129
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: how do you, either consciously or unconsciously, were shaped by them?

1130
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah, my mother was the great enabler um

1131
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: since I didn't have a father that took me hunting

1132
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 1: and fishing, and she knew how absorbed I was in

1133
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: this world, even though I had no one in my

1134
01:02:34,360 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: family who hunted, no one in my life experience who hunted.

1135
01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 1: I didn't know a hunter um. And when my dad died,

1136
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: I was thirteen, and even by the end, I mean,

1137
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 1: I subscribe to field and stream and outdoor life and

1138
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: fur fishing game and all that stuff. You know, I

1139
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: had a I had a pola pine straw in the

1140
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: backyard and a and a bow. You know. The kids

1141
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,560
Speaker 1: going to football practice would holler out at me, nature boy,

1142
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: because I'd be back there shooting yeah, yeah, yeah, So

1143
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, Ben, I remember I remember driving to

1144
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:15,520
Speaker 1: the mountains as a kid, and and I was laying

1145
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: down in the back of our en seventy three Pinto

1146
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 1: station wagon, of course, with no seatbelts, and and I

1147
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: saw out of the window a big field and a

1148
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 1: little speck of blaze orange in a tree, and it

1149
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: was a deer hunter. And I absolutely remember asking myself,

1150
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: would I ever get to go hunting? Was there was

1151
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 1: there any path in my life that would that would

1152
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 1: lead me to that? And and there wasn't. There wasn't

1153
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 1: until my father passed away and a friend at church

1154
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: did what we all tell each other we need to do.

1155
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: He took a kid hunting. And his great credit Keith,

1156
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: Keith Gleason, he didn't take a kid hunting, this kid

1157
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: hunting on Saturday and get me all hopped up and

1158
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 1: then walk out of my life. From the first time

1159
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: we went squirrel hunting in October of nineteen seventy four

1160
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:19,919
Speaker 1: until I graduated from college, he took me. We went

1161
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: every Saturday of the season, and so it was one

1162
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 1: of those few times where you could point to a

1163
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: moment when your life just takes a dramatic, dramatic change.

1164
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: And so my mom, to speak to your question, she

1165
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:36,120
Speaker 1: was the one who allowed me to do all the

1166
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 1: stuff that she was super uncomfortable with. You know. I mean,

1167
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:40,480
Speaker 1: I was a snake freak like so many of us,

1168
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: you know, grew up on this creek, and I would

1169
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: She would let me hibernate my snakes and pillow cases,

1170
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: knotted pillowcases in the refrigerator's vegetable cristal. God, bless her soul,

1171
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: she would. She knew how badly I wanted this. And

1172
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: so I think even today, I think that's probably as

1173
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: much a part of my success, be that as it

1174
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: may as anything is. There's a lot of mornings when

1175
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: I wake up and I just I'm just amazed at

1176
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. Um, And I want other people to

1177
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 1: realize that their love of hunting and fishing is you know,

1178
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 1: these sports are imperiled from outside forces, whether they're economic,

1179
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: or whether they're social, whether they're cultural. And if we

1180
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 1: don't figure out a way to address those challenges, this

1181
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 1: is this is gonna slip away when we talk about

1182
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 1: it as a community, I feel like and it's when

1183
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: you tell a story like that to me, it's it's

1184
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:51,439
Speaker 1: sobering and it's a little bit emotional to think of.

1185
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 1: We always talk about our three and we like we've

1186
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 1: made up these the fancy little things, but like we

1187
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 1: really just talk about affecting someone's life, not just just

1188
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 1: the day that they're with you or And that's the

1189
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:04,920
Speaker 1: reason I do what I do. I think because I've

1190
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: identified this in enriching thing like this, Oh, look at

1191
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 1: this thing no one really knows about. They don't really

1192
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 1: know about the way I know now about it, and

1193
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 1: it's shrinking. For fox sake, what that makes no sense

1194
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: to me? And so it's engendered in me this like

1195
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 1: one willingness to fight, but also one willingness to appreciate

1196
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 1: what that what's currently here, because it is shrinking and

1197
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: by any measure, you know, almost all measures. So it's

1198
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 1: just a it's a sobering thought that that you're a

1199
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 1: part of something that has been so enriching to your

1200
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 1: life and others lives, and people have given their time

1201
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: to kind of change your path and you can do

1202
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: that for other people. It's just like the spider web

1203
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: of experiences that we're all together in, but that that's

1204
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: closing in on us. A little bit and so. And

1205
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 1: I think part of the success and that is celebrating

1206
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: all of the different ways that we choose to involve

1207
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 1: ourselves in this in this passion of hunting. You know

1208
01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 1: that that one is not better than the other, that

1209
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 1: one is not more elevated. That I mean coast coast

1210
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 1: to coast, north to south. Those those feelings at sunrise, Um,

1211
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 1: I think they're the same in a salt marsh as

1212
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 1: a rocky mountain ridge line. You know, the heart, the

1213
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 1: heart can only beat so fast and so deep, and

1214
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 1: those moments like that, we mix it out no matter

1215
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 1: where we're standing. Yeah, And I think that that's why

1216
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 1: we were drawn to these people that are able to

1217
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: codify the ideas and like you know, Aldo and and

1218
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt and and all these writers you know, and

1219
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 1: I would put even yourself and guys like Steve Rinella

1220
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 1: and all these other writers and people that are able

1221
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 1: to take these ideas that we share an articulating in

1222
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 1: such a way that one making relatable, but to make

1223
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 1: you realize that's how I'm feeling, Holy Ship, that's how

1224
01:07:56,840 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 1: I'm feeling. Yeah, yep, that's it. And then once you've

1225
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: shared that with someone and it's it's it's beyond measure,

1226
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: I feel like. And that's and as lucky as I

1227
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 1: feel to be a hunter, I feel equally blessed to

1228
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 1: write about hunting, because I mean, I do think that's

1229
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: been I hate the call that a stick, but I've

1230
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,719
Speaker 1: done a lot of writing about, you know, the cultural

1231
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:28,360
Speaker 1: response to hunting, that personal response, you know. I mean,

1232
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:33,839
Speaker 1: I I love to write stories that are just great

1233
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:38,679
Speaker 1: stories of human character, and they happen to be told

1234
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:43,720
Speaker 1: through the medium of the hunting and fishing. Um. But

1235
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 1: there's there's there's something about this pursuit that is is

1236
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: transcendent in a way that that other quote unquote sports

1237
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think can be. And then again,

1238
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 1: I was a kid that the football players called niture

1239
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 1: boy and the buck. What do I did that? Well,

1240
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,479
Speaker 1: if you would have kept that and trademarked it could

1241
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 1: have been a wrestler now. But I think that's it's true. Um.

1242
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of people you like the author

1243
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: Michael poland It wrote the book I'm Know Where's the

1244
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 1: Lemmter talked about it in his book. He said hunting

1245
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 1: is so incredibly different from the inside than it than

1246
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 1: it is from the outside. I mean, this is it's

1247
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 1: just this incredible core that no one gets to see

1248
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 1: because it's so hard to see it. I mean it's

1249
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: like a you know, it's it's it's almost invisible unless

1250
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: you're there doing it, you know, because it's there's so

1251
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 1: many ways to see it that don't seem productive. And

1252
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 1: you know, you imagine society and everyone that doesn't hunt

1253
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 1: is just asking the question is this good for all

1254
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 1: of us? Is this good for everything? It is this

1255
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 1: good for what society and the way we think about

1256
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:52,360
Speaker 1: animals and our interaction and our motivations are we good?

1257
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 1: Is this good? And we're like, yeah, fucking really good.

1258
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: But it's hard. I mean we've struggled to articulate that.

1259
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, over time, huh is it good?

1260
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 1: We could say? Am I playing a role in it

1261
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: being good? You know? So that's sort of the question

1262
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,759
Speaker 1: as well. I Mean, we don't want to saddle people

1263
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:16,519
Speaker 1: with all this philosophical baggage. You know, you just want

1264
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: to go hunt, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

1265
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 1: But that's I keep coming back to that because I've

1266
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:27,680
Speaker 1: I've argued this a lot of people and sometimes I

1267
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 1: would step back from because I don't want to be

1268
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 1: that guy, right, the guy in the room going like,

1269
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 1: don't you guys want to think a little deeper. This

1270
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: is a douchey thing to say sometimes oftentimes, but I

1271
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 1: also want to say, like, in our little community here

1272
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 1: of people, if if you would tell me that half

1273
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: or more want to just go out and have fun,

1274
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 1: I would say, that's that's that's fine. Whatever number of

1275
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 1: us just feel that it's this is in their nature

1276
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 1: and they're gonna do it. They're gonna have a good

1277
01:10:56,760 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: time and that's what they get from it. I'm totally

1278
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 1: fine with that. I would argue that there needs to

1279
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:04,760
Speaker 1: be a percentage of on the other side, that's that's

1280
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 1: answering these tough questions and having you know, sometimes these

1281
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 1: endless conversations around some of the more intricate parts of it.

1282
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 1: So when someone asks you have somebody to send them to,

1283
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, and I think there's a that percentage of

1284
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: people or the or the ones that I think are

1285
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:26,839
Speaker 1: the ones that are almost ridgelines and then there's swamp

1286
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 1: bottoms just feeling totally blessed by this moment. Yeah, and

1287
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 1: if it's guys like it's guys like you and other

1288
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:38,719
Speaker 1: people have had on this podcast, like if if Honey

1289
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:42,719
Speaker 1: was a representative government, Like who would we elect? Because

1290
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 1: we have to elect someone to explain our the ship

1291
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 1: we do to other people, Like we have to elect

1292
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: a body to allow us to just go and have

1293
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:56,439
Speaker 1: fun and elect the body of people to talk about

1294
01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:59,280
Speaker 1: it and think about it and reason it outside of

1295
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 1: this science and biology that goes on the state game

1296
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 1: agency level in the federal or whatever, just just as

1297
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: a theory and philosophy. I think that's that's how I

1298
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 1: look at it. There's got to be some people out

1299
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:12,440
Speaker 1: there that are doing that, you know, and like exploring

1300
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: the human elements of hunting and things like that that

1301
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 1: just a little bit deeper than most people want to

1302
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 1: go with it. Well, you know, at the at the

1303
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:24,679
Speaker 1: dawn of our modern civilization or or or at our

1304
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 1: our modern culture, people sat around and tunics and sandals

1305
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,720
Speaker 1: and thought about what it means, what it means to

1306
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:39,400
Speaker 1: be human, and what it means to engage in society,

1307
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:44,720
Speaker 1: and what good government means. So, I mean, I I

1308
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 1: think it's a fine thing to sit around in our

1309
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 1: flip flop flannel shirts and think about what does it

1310
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: mean to be a taker of life? Yeah, yeah, that's

1311
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 1: the question. Yeah. I think it's that conversation like we'll

1312
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:06,560
Speaker 1: never get there or never you'll never be like, oh,

1313
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 1: you know, you know what, guys, I hadn't thought of

1314
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:11,680
Speaker 1: it this way, but here it is. But you can

1315
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 1: certainly continue to explore it. And that's another part of

1316
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 1: I think how hunting community has grown and how we

1317
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 1: talk to each other. The willingness that people that are

1318
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 1: going to come to rally and sit and listen to

1319
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 1: us kind of have this conversation on a on a

1320
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 1: wonderful evening where they could be doing anything else. I

1321
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 1: think is is just evidence of the elevation of the

1322
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:35,599
Speaker 1: willingness to have that conversation. And that's it's a pretty

1323
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 1: huge win in my my estimation. It's a it's a

1324
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 1: pretty good time. This may be the time, you know,

1325
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:47,200
Speaker 1: like we I think we just being self critical. We

1326
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:49,599
Speaker 1: can always throw stones at it. But I think I've

1327
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:53,400
Speaker 1: quickly seen when I first came in the industry and

1328
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 1: social media really got going, it was not there was

1329
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: some really bad stuff happening, and over the last four

1330
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 1: five years, maybe I'm in a bubble. I think we're

1331
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:06,080
Speaker 1: all in our like self contained internet bubble for reasons

1332
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:08,519
Speaker 1: of in our controlling, outside of our control. But I

1333
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 1: you see, like you see the through lines of people

1334
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 1: that are really thinking hard, you know, in a way

1335
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 1: that they communicate, and so that's you see it and

1336
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 1: see a lot. That's that's you know that you would

1337
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:26,640
Speaker 1: like to think in the groups like pH and I

1338
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 1: was just with with Fosberk from TRCP, He's like to

1339
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 1: think that that that that's all Like the fact that

1340
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 1: somebody's willing to put their money down and join one

1341
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 1: of those is signifies that that's really really truly going on. Yeah,

1342
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 1: and I think with the growth of these organizations, people

1343
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 1: are recognizing the threats that we have, the opportunities that

1344
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:52,719
Speaker 1: we have, and that hey, and this tribe is big.

1345
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 1: You go to that b h A rendezvous, you go

1346
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:58,799
Speaker 1: to some of these big meetings, and you looked around

1347
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 1: and that's that's that's the response. We hear a lot.

1348
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 1: I found my people. Oh yeah, right, we're at the ronde.

1349
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,519
Speaker 1: Even you and I must I must have heard that, wow,

1350
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:12,360
Speaker 1: three dozen times, I don't know how many times. Many times. Yeah, yeah,

1351
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:15,280
Speaker 1: So it's I mean, that's that's strong medicine. But you know,

1352
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 1: let's also not get away from the fact that it's

1353
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 1: a it's a hoot. Put stump around into swamp, have

1354
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:30,160
Speaker 1: a gun and be able to engage in this. But

1355
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:34,840
Speaker 1: it's fun. That's fun, like any freedom in free either

1356
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 1: and said, well, it's it's great. I mean, this is

1357
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 1: I think being able to go and do that and

1358
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 1: then in the quiet times we're not doing that. I

1359
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 1: have these conversations and then go out and let them

1360
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 1: inform and go back and forth from that's great, man,

1361
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: I love doing it. Uh, there's a lot of people

1362
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,160
Speaker 1: listen to this, I think love love to hear it.

1363
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:56,400
Speaker 1: I'm assuming so a lot you know, a lot of good,

1364
01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:59,599
Speaker 1: good reviews over the time. But I really I do.

1365
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:03,519
Speaker 1: I do believe that this this conversation, however, you know

1366
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:07,839
Speaker 1: organic our conversation here has been it's a little sobering

1367
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,439
Speaker 1: to me to think of the point from it that

1368
01:16:10,479 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 1: I'll probably take forward with needs to think of how

1369
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 1: just you didn't have a father around, somebody in your

1370
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:23,360
Speaker 1: life picked up, picked you up and took the time

1371
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 1: and change your life and then and then cascading on

1372
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,719
Speaker 1: change the lives of your children and probably their children

1373
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: and on and on and on we go. It's like

1374
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 1: just one you had the desire, somebody saw it and

1375
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:38,719
Speaker 1: jumped on it and helps you. But that's the power

1376
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:41,640
Speaker 1: of this sport man. You know you feel it, and

1377
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 1: I feel it. Everybody listening feels it. Um, I mean it.

1378
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 1: I mean these are these are life changing experiences in

1379
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:54,640
Speaker 1: life affecting experiences we have. You can spend your Saturday

1380
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 1: watching Tom Brady, or you could spend your Saturday like

1381
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:03,759
Speaker 1: taking somebody else man and chain and possibly hopefully changing

1382
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:05,240
Speaker 1: the way that they see the world change in their

1383
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:09,600
Speaker 1: life's who's Tom Brady? I'm not just see what's this

1384
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:12,679
Speaker 1: oil change? And thank you were talking about I don't

1385
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 1: got time. I got time for that. Well, thank you, Edward. Um.

1386
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 1: I appreciate what you do. And you can find your

1387
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:23,160
Speaker 1: working lots and lots of places. It would be hard

1388
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:26,120
Speaker 1: not to find it, I feel. Uh. You can find

1389
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 1: it at field and stream, you can find a garden

1390
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:30,840
Speaker 1: and gun. You can find it an Audubon, like where

1391
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:38,320
Speaker 1: else do you magazine and Men's Journal and Shooting Sportsman

1392
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 1: and yeah, I look at that big polar over there.

1393
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 1: You know this is a part of my job. Nobody

1394
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:48,720
Speaker 1: wants to hear about is the sitting here and right

1395
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,719
Speaker 1: right right, but hard to complain this podcast is taken

1396
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 1: to a lot of people. I try to do them

1397
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:58,759
Speaker 1: inside of people's personal space, and like this is, uh

1398
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,600
Speaker 1: the neatest I've interviewed a lot of writers. Imagine like

1399
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: how Harry I didn't get to go to his officer.

1400
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 1: I imagine like he just he just his a head

1401
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 1: poking out of papers. All right, that's my that's my

1402
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:13,760
Speaker 1: imagination there, Andrew mc keene, he's the same way a

1403
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:15,280
Speaker 1: bunch of other folks we've had on It's just like

1404
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 1: it just seems the writer's mind seems to be too

1405
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,760
Speaker 1: cluttered to have time to clean shut up. But you

1406
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:23,840
Speaker 1: have you have done it, sir, Well, it depends on

1407
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:27,720
Speaker 1: what I'm what I'm working on. Um right now, I'm

1408
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:31,840
Speaker 1: working on my column for Field and Stream, which was

1409
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 1: due at some point in the recent past. Sorry guys, Yeah,

1410
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:40,720
Speaker 1: so uh so yeah, so that's more of an essay thing,

1411
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 1: so I'm not covered up with notes. But yeah, there's

1412
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:46,120
Speaker 1: other times when it's a it's it's a mess. It's

1413
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:51,240
Speaker 1: all one story at a time. Folks. Remember that has Eddie.

1414
01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 1: Eddie has always said at least for the last week.

1415
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 1: One story at a time, One story at a time.

1416
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:06,120
Speaker 1: Thanks man. Alright, buddy, that's it. That's all another episode

1417
01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:08,839
Speaker 1: of the podcast in the Books, thanks to Eddie T. Nikins.

1418
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:12,400
Speaker 1: Oh thanks to all your dad's out there here as

1419
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 1: we run up to Father's Day, So do something nice

1420
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 1: for your dad. Do something nice every day, but do

1421
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:24,519
Speaker 1: something especially nice for Father's Day. Before we get any further.

1422
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:28,320
Speaker 1: Th HC at the Mediator dot com. Th h C

1423
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: at the mediator dot com. That is where I want

1424
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 1: you to write me all your emails. Uh there, they've

1425
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:37,920
Speaker 1: been flooding in here lately. Uh, to the to the program.

1426
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:40,200
Speaker 1: In fact, you know, ten to fifteen a day rolling

1427
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:44,440
Speaker 1: in so so it's really cool to see um everything

1428
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 1: from Colonel Tom Kelly two Ethics to Texas to anything

1429
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 1: you can think of that to the Devil Makes Three,

1430
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:56,560
Speaker 1: the song that a lot of you love and a

1431
01:19:56,640 --> 01:19:59,800
Speaker 1: lot of you hate. It's been great to read all

1432
01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:01,920
Speaker 1: the I am reading them and respond to them as

1433
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 1: soon as I possibly can. But thank you for writing in.

1434
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:08,559
Speaker 1: Continue to send those audio clips to th HC at

1435
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 1: the meeteator dot com. Send us the audio clips and

1436
01:20:11,600 --> 01:20:14,439
Speaker 1: we'll play them at the end of each show. We

1437
01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:16,320
Speaker 1: need them from you. They're fun for me to listen

1438
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:18,559
Speaker 1: to and fun for for the rest of the audience.

1439
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 1: A lot of people have been commenting about how they

1440
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:25,800
Speaker 1: love it, um and again, we're gonna continue to crank

1441
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,280
Speaker 1: those out for you. What else, what else? What else

1442
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:31,080
Speaker 1: we got? You know, it's it's almost too close to

1443
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:32,760
Speaker 1: Father's Day, but you know this will come. You'll have

1444
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:35,200
Speaker 1: a few days after this airs. If you want a

1445
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: good Father's Day gift to go to the meat eator

1446
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:39,600
Speaker 1: dot com click on store. There's a lot of th

1447
01:20:39,840 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 1: HC gear there. There's hoodies, there's pro Nuance, anti bullshit

1448
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:48,840
Speaker 1: t shirts, there is our Aldo Freaking louispold t. There's

1449
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:50,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff there that you can check out,

1450
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 1: and then once you're there, then you can buy all

1451
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:59,000
Speaker 1: kinds of other things meat Eater, Metator mugs, metior hats,

1452
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 1: meet eat or Tease. We just came out with a

1453
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:05,320
Speaker 1: new broadhead t that Steven Ronell himself came up with.

1454
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:10,040
Speaker 1: It's pretty badass. To check it out at the meat

1455
01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:14,240
Speaker 1: eater dot com click on shop and you're gonna see

1456
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:18,719
Speaker 1: it all there. That's great, trust me, So without further ado.

1457
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:23,560
Speaker 1: We're gonna get you too a couple of reader voicemails,

1458
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:25,519
Speaker 1: as we'll call him, and then we're gonna get you

1459
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 1: to old number seven. Enjoy Man. That Stephen Ronnella really

1460
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 1: came off as a high brow kind of guy throwing

1461
01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:41,240
Speaker 1: all our Game of Thrones love under the bus like that.

1462
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:46,040
Speaker 1: I guess he doesn't have time for that, but I'll

1463
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:48,720
Speaker 1: get over it. They say, never really get to know

1464
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 1: your heroes or you'll be let down. Thanks Ben for

1465
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 1: keeping it real for us Game of Thrones fans and

1466
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 1: UH to finish off the thought Sportsman's Alliance doing God's work.

1467
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 1: I wish I could support them more right now. Thanks

1468
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:10,200
Speaker 1: for continuing to bring those guys on. I really get

1469
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:15,400
Speaker 1: kind of uncomfortable talking about ethics because it's such a

1470
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:19,519
Speaker 1: moving target for anyone in any place, whether it's ranching,

1471
01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:26,680
Speaker 1: pet ownership, hunting, fishing tournaments. It's a tough thing to define.

1472
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:29,640
Speaker 1: Thanks for at least talking about it and the platform

1473
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 1: that you guys put forth. See Hello Ben and the

1474
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 1: guys at Hunting Collective. This is Armando Basulto. I'm from

1475
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:45,320
Speaker 1: western North Carolina, out here in the Smoky Mountain part

1476
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 1: of North Carolina, big fan of the show and it've

1477
01:22:48,439 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 1: enjoined the last couple of episodes. UM, wondering if maybe

1478
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:54,840
Speaker 1: on an upcoming episode you might touch a little bit

1479
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:58,200
Speaker 1: more on trapping. Um, you guys touched a little bit

1480
01:22:58,240 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 1: on it when you were discussing the North American model

1481
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 1: of UH wildlife and you touched a little bit on it.

1482
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:10,400
Speaker 1: But um, currently trapping is really under attack in so

1483
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:13,839
Speaker 1: many states. UM. You know, it tends to be easily

1484
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 1: targeted because even some hunters don't understand it. Um. It's

1485
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:20,920
Speaker 1: kind of low hanging fruit target for uh Ani hunters

1486
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:27,280
Speaker 1: and people kind of work against UM hunting and conservation. So, UM,

1487
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:29,200
Speaker 1: I'm a hunter, but I'm also a trapper. I'm teaching

1488
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 1: my boys how to trap, and UH, I know even

1489
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:35,640
Speaker 1: I have some difficulties sometimes getting people to understand UH

1490
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:38,559
Speaker 1: trapping as part of a wildlife management and as a

1491
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:41,519
Speaker 1: real tool. So anyway, hoping you guys can discuss it

1492
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:45,240
Speaker 1: on an upcoming episode, UM, and keep up the great work.

1493
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:52,200
Speaker 1: Thanks guys. Tennessee who whiskey got the dragon heaven and

1494
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:55,479
Speaker 1: uh and just stopped it looks good to me. They're

1495
01:23:55,479 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 1: gonna have to depumpit to the vardy Oh on the fire,

1496
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:09,200
Speaker 1: Red dragging in the fire, dh on the fy d

1497
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 1: dragging in heaven.