1
00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:04,840
Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

2
00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,360
Speaker 2: That is the beauty of psychology. I love my field,

3
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,600
Speaker 2: I love my practice because it really does, I think,

4
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,760
Speaker 2: give people an opportunity to be liberated from untrue things

5
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,759
Speaker 2: about themselves and untrue stories about themselves and can be

6
00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 2: informed by theory, fact and what we now understand around

7
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,079
Speaker 2: the psychology, the neurobiology of human beings and how we work.

8
00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration,

9
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,640
Speaker 1: or a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA moments

10
00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,559
Speaker 1: or appreciate anything from this episode, please leave us a

11
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,839
Speaker 1: review to let us know we're on the right track. Also,

12
00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,920
Speaker 1: we release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe

13
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 1: on iTunes and visit cultivatinghurspace dot com to access our

14
00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 1: exclusive after show and other bonus content from the Patreon tab.

15
00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 3: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting

16
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:03,160
Speaker 3: women like you.

17
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:05,959
Speaker 4: We're your hosts.

18
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,880
Speaker 3: Doctor Dominique Broussard, a college professor and psychologist.

19
00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 5: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a

20
00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:18,440
Speaker 5: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please

21
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:23,280
Speaker 5: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from

22
00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,640
Speaker 5: fibroids to fake friends, and create a safe space where

23
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:28,880
Speaker 5: black women can just be.

24
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,360
Speaker 3: Hey, lady, is doctor dom here from the Cultivating her

25
00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,400
Speaker 3: Space podcast? Are you currently a resident of the state

26
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:44,880
Speaker 3: of California in contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well? If so,

27
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,920
Speaker 3: please reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brussard dot com.

28
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,240
Speaker 3: That's d R D O M I N I q

29
00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:00,920
Speaker 3: U E b r O U ss ar D dot

30
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:05,920
Speaker 3: com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation. I look

31
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:07,080
Speaker 3: forward to hearing from.

32
00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,079
Speaker 2: You, lady.

33
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,280
Speaker 5: Today, we have an extraordinary guest joining us, someone whose

34
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,600
Speaker 5: work is at the intersection of education and psychology has

35
00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,160
Speaker 5: been nothing short of transformative. Psychologists advocate and educator, Doctor

36
00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:26,080
Speaker 5: Wendy Williams has dedicated two incredible decades to unraveling the

37
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,359
Speaker 5: intricacies of the inner lives of black women and young girls.

38
00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,959
Speaker 5: Her deep knowledge and expertise in this area have paved

39
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:39,600
Speaker 5: the way for culturally responsive, educational and psychological interventions that

40
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:45,320
Speaker 5: are changing lives. Doctor Williams also develops and implements educational

41
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 5: wellness and leadership intervention programs with individuals, groups, and organizations.

42
00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,280
Speaker 5: Her latest book, Black Women at Work on a Refusal

43
00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,160
Speaker 5: and Recovery, makes the compelling connection between black women and

44
00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,600
Speaker 5: workplaces today and the long legacy of black labor exploitation.

45
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:04,959
Speaker 2: Oh Child.

46
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,680
Speaker 5: You can follow doctor Williams work on her website at

47
00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 5: doctor Wendywilliams dot com.

48
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,480
Speaker 2: That's Wendy with an Eye, and you can tune into.

49
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:20,840
Speaker 5: Her podcast called She Been Ready, Doctor Wendy Williams, Welcome

50
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,239
Speaker 5: to cultivating her space.

51
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,839
Speaker 2: Think. I'm so happy to be here with you both. Kay,

52
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,200
Speaker 2: We're so happy to have you.

53
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,200
Speaker 4: Absolutely, yes, we are looking forward to this conversation, and

54
00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,600
Speaker 4: so I will start us with the foot of the day,

55
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,520
Speaker 4: Doctor Wendy. This quote will sound really familiar to you

56
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,360
Speaker 4: because we have been checking out your social media. We've

57
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 4: been looking at excerpts from your book, and this quote

58
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:54,080
Speaker 4: is your words. We are so much more than the

59
00:03:54,240 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 4: limited stereotypes caricatures projected about us and sometimes absorbed by us. Oh,

60
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:13,720
Speaker 4: doctor Wendy. When you share those words, your words, and

61
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 4: think about our conversation that we're going to have today,

62
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:18,680
Speaker 4: what comes.

63
00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,839
Speaker 2: Up for you? Thank you for engaging my work and

64
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,839
Speaker 2: my words. I do appreciate that what comes up for

65
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,800
Speaker 2: me is that we identify over identify with work, and

66
00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 2: that for black people and black women, that is, that's

67
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,040
Speaker 2: something that we do in a capitalist society. But for us,

68
00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,279
Speaker 2: it wasn't necessarily our choice from the very beginnings for

69
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,200
Speaker 2: that to be our identification. And so the idea that

70
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,680
Speaker 2: we absorb that and take on the mantle of the

71
00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,480
Speaker 2: oppressor in our own lives, it breaks my heart actually

72
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 2: to hear you read that.

73
00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, that is so powerful. And don I'm sure you're

74
00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,360
Speaker 5: like me, and you have so many questions and things

75
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,560
Speaker 5: that are going on about right now. We just want

76
00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,840
Speaker 5: to dive in. But we're going to start from the beginning,

77
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,680
Speaker 5: like good interviewers, and doctor Wendy, if you can tell

78
00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,800
Speaker 5: us what is your origin story? How did you become

79
00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,800
Speaker 5: the doctor Wendy Williams we see today? The question is

80
00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,800
Speaker 5: so reflective and I really appreciated the opportunity to think

81
00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,839
Speaker 5: about that. I'm the middle of five children.

82
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,359
Speaker 2: I grew up in southern California, and I grew up

83
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,440
Speaker 2: in a blended family, and my family was blended. My

84
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 2: mother and my stepfather had an opportunity to meet one

85
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,040
Speaker 2: another because the crack epidemic took my father from our

86
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,640
Speaker 2: lives and my siblings, their mother from their lives, and

87
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:39,560
Speaker 2: so I've always wanted to understand that, and not just

88
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,480
Speaker 2: that from our own family's perspective, but also our community.

89
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,359
Speaker 2: I grew up in southern California in the eighties and

90
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,440
Speaker 2: the nineties, so the crack epidemic was huge. The gang

91
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,159
Speaker 2: bloods and crypt like I grew up inside of with

92
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,359
Speaker 2: those being different the types of pressures that are around

93
00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,440
Speaker 2: our environment, those were the types of things that made

94
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,640
Speaker 2: our environment unsafe, and so I wanted to understand the

95
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,120
Speaker 2: black community. I wanted to understand why we were in

96
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,640
Speaker 2: this predicament. Meant to make sense of it, and I

97
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,640
Speaker 2: think that ultimately inspired me to want to study psychology.

98
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,359
Speaker 2: I know that it did. I am the kind of

99
00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,560
Speaker 2: person who if I can understand it, then I can

100
00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,040
Speaker 2: make peace with it. But I need to understand. As

101
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,880
Speaker 2: a kid, I didn't realize that was my thing, but

102
00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,560
Speaker 2: that is my thing. If I could make some sense

103
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 2: of it, then Okay, I don't like it, but it's fine.

104
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,040
Speaker 2: And I think as a young child that really spurred

105
00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:27,400
Speaker 2: my interest in psychology.

106
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,280
Speaker 4: Wow, ok, I already know of this conversation, there are

107
00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 4: so many other questions that I asked the ook, and

108
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,960
Speaker 4: I'm like, let's wait. We got to stick to our script.

109
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,320
Speaker 4: We got to stick to our interview question. But doctor Wendy,

110
00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:49,400
Speaker 4: for those who are listening and they are not as

111
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,599
Speaker 4: familiar with what it means to be as psychologist, right,

112
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,400
Speaker 4: can you share a little more about the work that

113
00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:03,720
Speaker 4: you're doing and you talk about the intersectionality of education

114
00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:10,640
Speaker 4: in psychology and making it accessible for everyday people, and

115
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,080
Speaker 4: so can you speak a little bit more about that?

116
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 4: What does that really look like?

117
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I tell that origin story because it's not

118
00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 2: unlike other people. Other people have these real life issues

119
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:24,600
Speaker 2: and challenges. Don't get me wrong. I had a lovely

120
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,480
Speaker 2: childhood and growing up and all the things. And I'm

121
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,680
Speaker 2: glad that my mother and my stepfather found each other

122
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,240
Speaker 2: and all of that. But there's pain to get to

123
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:37,200
Speaker 2: that joy, right, joy and pain, sunshine and rain. I

124
00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 2: was thinking rob base, but seriously so once I had

125
00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 2: an understanding of that, I am the person in my

126
00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:48,440
Speaker 2: family who explains things to us about stuff, like explains

127
00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,680
Speaker 2: why folks aren't getting back like I can explain things,

128
00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 2: and so that feels really important to me. Everyone's not

129
00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,200
Speaker 2: going to go into university I do work within university.

130
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,000
Speaker 2: I've been a college professor. I didn't take the route

131
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 2: in psychology tho i'm accounseling psychologists. I didn't go the

132
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,480
Speaker 2: route of practice where I would see clients and therapy

133
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 2: outside of my training. So I didn't do that. But

134
00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:12,320
Speaker 2: I've always been a teacher. I am a teacher at heart,

135
00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,960
Speaker 2: and one of the things that feels really important to

136
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 2: me is to make what I know accessible our community needs.

137
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 2: And it goes back to that what I said about

138
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,960
Speaker 2: that origin story, that we need to understand why it's

139
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,440
Speaker 2: happening so that we don't take a necessary blame for

140
00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,760
Speaker 2: systemic and structural impacts on our psychology and our psyche.

141
00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,800
Speaker 2: That we understand that from the very start, that we

142
00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,360
Speaker 2: were stamped with a certain experience that has trauma laced

143
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 2: all through and around it, and our reactions and our

144
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,920
Speaker 2: behaviors are not of an immoral people. There are of

145
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,320
Speaker 2: a traumatized people. And so that is It's always been

146
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,920
Speaker 2: really important for me to enter that work in that way,

147
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,080
Speaker 2: and I see that as the beauty of psychology. I

148
00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,760
Speaker 2: love my field. I love my practice because it really does,

149
00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,640
Speaker 2: I think give people an opportunity to be liberated from

150
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,040
Speaker 2: untrue things about themselves and true stories about themselves and

151
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,280
Speaker 2: can be informed by theory, fact and what we now

152
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,040
Speaker 2: understand around the psychology, the neurobiology of human beings and

153
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,559
Speaker 2: how we work. It begins to just make all the

154
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,080
Speaker 2: sense in the world that you see some of the

155
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,160
Speaker 2: issues that we see in our society based on the

156
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,240
Speaker 2: experiences that we've had and the major chemistry project that

157
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,040
Speaker 2: we are as human beings. We're just a bunch of

158
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:25,600
Speaker 2: cam neuural transmitters and whatnot.

159
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,679
Speaker 5: After all, Hey lady, it's Terry here, Dom and I

160
00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,440
Speaker 5: want to take a moment to thank you for choosing

161
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,040
Speaker 5: to listen to our podcast. We love you for real,

162
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:34,800
Speaker 5: and we want to give you a chance to learn

163
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,720
Speaker 5: more about what's important to us. So tell us what

164
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:38,439
Speaker 5: you think about this.

165
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,720
Speaker 6: Imagine a world where you have a chance to get

166
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,240
Speaker 6: featured on the Cultivating her Space podcast and share your business,

167
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 6: brand or perspective with millions around the globe. Imagine joining

168
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,680
Speaker 6: our monthly virtual video check ins where you can connect

169
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 6: with like minded black women like you and share your

170
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,240
Speaker 6: ideas and sold suggestions with Terry and I. Now, I

171
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 6: want you to imagine a world where you're in the

172
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 6: exclusive Cultivating her Space sanctuary Slack channel, and throughout your

173
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,560
Speaker 6: day and week, you are conversing with us about what's

174
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,800
Speaker 6: happening in your life and sharing funny gifts.

175
00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,600
Speaker 7: And or personal wins. How does that sound? Hopefully this

176
00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:23,839
Speaker 7: is up your alley, lady, because we are taking things

177
00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,120
Speaker 7: to the next level this year, and we're doubling down

178
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 7: on investing in our community.

179
00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:29,120
Speaker 2: That means you.

180
00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 5: We want to meet you, connect with you, and create

181
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,680
Speaker 5: communities of genuine women who love on black women and

182
00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,280
Speaker 5: push our culture and movement forward. We launched this podcast

183
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,120
Speaker 5: in twenty nineteen and to date we have not missed

184
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,560
Speaker 5: a week. We've been great stewards of our platform, all

185
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,520
Speaker 5: while working full time and navigating our own ups and downs.

186
00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,480
Speaker 5: We release fresh new content every single Friday, Life clock Work,

187
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,800
Speaker 5: and we have hundreds of valuable episodes and workshops that

188
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,560
Speaker 5: can really help you upload vel your life. So if

189
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,760
Speaker 5: you love our mission or you've gotten value from us,

190
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,720
Speaker 5: we invite you to give back and help us push

191
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:13,119
Speaker 5: this community effort forward. Visit herspacepodcast dot com and click Patreon.

192
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,200
Speaker 5: You can learn more about our goals and exclusive offerings

193
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:20,360
Speaker 5: on Patreon, and we highly highly encourage you to join

194
00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,920
Speaker 5: the Sister Frontier so that you can get someone on

195
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,400
Speaker 5: one time with us. We also have an option for

196
00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 5: you to donate on a one time basis if that

197
00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,800
Speaker 5: meets your needs. Again Herspace podcast dot com, and you

198
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,360
Speaker 5: can click that link that says Patreon. All right, lady,

199
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,280
Speaker 5: We'll hop right back into the conversation.

200
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,079
Speaker 2: So powerful, doctor Wendy.

201
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 5: I feel like I already have a question that I'm

202
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,600
Speaker 5: going to dig into in my own personal reflection based

203
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,400
Speaker 5: off of something you said earlier about the connection between

204
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,600
Speaker 5: black exploitation and our relationship with work. And I was

205
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,640
Speaker 5: telling down before we started, I actually have some work

206
00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,120
Speaker 5: from my full time job that I want to do

207
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,480
Speaker 5: after this when I think about my experience with the work,

208
00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,000
Speaker 5: and well, I'm pretty much always going to workaholic and

209
00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,400
Speaker 5: I'm recovering perfectionists, and so I'm thinking about these things

210
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,040
Speaker 5: and I'm like, Okay, I need to reflect on that later.

211
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,720
Speaker 5: But my question for you is what has been the

212
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,760
Speaker 5: most profound realization that you've had when connecting the dots

213
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:16,840
Speaker 5: of your past. And I'm thinking about what you shared

214
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,680
Speaker 5: about your family and the environment you grew up in.

215
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 5: Is there anything in particular that stands out to you

216
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,960
Speaker 5: when it comes to the profound realization or something that

217
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,960
Speaker 5: you just realized by way of the knowledge that you

218
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,720
Speaker 5: have now and then connecting the dots to that those experiences.

219
00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,640
Speaker 2: You've had, that's a big question. I come from a

220
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,839
Speaker 2: long line of women who are like me, who didn't

221
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,200
Speaker 2: have the opportunities that I had, And I always wonder

222
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,080
Speaker 2: what would my grandmother, what would my mother and my aunties,

223
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,440
Speaker 2: what would they have done if if they would have

224
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:51,640
Speaker 2: had access to the education that I now. The access

225
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 2: to the education that I had came alongside a just

226
00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,920
Speaker 2: listening to another podcast conversation today and exploit of student

227
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,080
Speaker 2: loan systems, there's that part two. Okay, I'm not going

228
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,080
Speaker 2: to open up all the things, so but yes, so

229
00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,680
Speaker 2: they were able to bypass that part. There's just my

230
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,520
Speaker 2: grandmother's brilliant woman, a wonderful leader of our family, and

231
00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,200
Speaker 2: she comes from that line. That line of women is

232
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,240
Speaker 2: like that. I'm just I'm that, and so I just

233
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,559
Speaker 2: wonder what they would have done differently. My aunt has

234
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 2: always said that she wanted to be a career woman

235
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,800
Speaker 2: and whatnot, and but she ended up being a mom

236
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,440
Speaker 2: of three and she's a wonderful grandmother and all the rest,

237
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,320
Speaker 2: and I just wonder what that would have been. So

238
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:31,800
Speaker 2: the profound realization for me is like all the lost

239
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 2: potential of all of our people and what they might

240
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,559
Speaker 2: have otherwise had done had they not had the very

241
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 2: narrow band of opportunity or possibility that sexism and racism

242
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:47,240
Speaker 2: placed on their brilliance. Okay, thank you. Wow.

243
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:53,240
Speaker 4: When we think about the women, the Black women that

244
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:58,800
Speaker 4: we know, who are in the workplace now right or

245
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,200
Speaker 4: are doing who are involved in labor of any kind right,

246
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:10,360
Speaker 4: so not just necessarily corporate America, like having to work

247
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:18,520
Speaker 4: for someone outside of ourselves, we're often expected, particularly black women,

248
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:25,160
Speaker 4: we are often expected to engage in cold switching. Now

249
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:33,200
Speaker 4: chan black women reinxist that and still be professional? And

250
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:39,200
Speaker 4: what does professionalism really look like today?

251
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,680
Speaker 2: I really love that question. I hate that question too,

252
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,000
Speaker 2: because I think underneath that there's this assumption, this sort

253
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,480
Speaker 2: of the reality that we as black women I think

254
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,000
Speaker 2: that we grapple with rather that just being who we

255
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,400
Speaker 2: are is deemed unprofessional. I noticed that, like the two

256
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,960
Speaker 2: of you have very beautiful braided hair. I love. I

257
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:00,920
Speaker 2: plan to get my hair braided. That's why I'm growing it,

258
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 2: and so even how long it took for us to

259
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,160
Speaker 2: even be able to wear our hair and the hairstyles

260
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 2: that are protective and not just protective but beautiful. I

261
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,520
Speaker 2: remember in the eighties and the nineties when that was

262
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,040
Speaker 2: like a huge thing and people were being fired because

263
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,480
Speaker 2: they wore braids to work or were a natural soro.

264
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,760
Speaker 2: I think that there's an underlying sense of what does

265
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,800
Speaker 2: it mean to be professional? And if I can back

266
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,800
Speaker 2: out of that a little bit to say, what does

267
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,440
Speaker 2: it mean to how have black women sat inside of

268
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:37,760
Speaker 2: the idea of what is ideal femininity? Oh? Yeah, Because

269
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,400
Speaker 2: I think that professional is basically what does it mean

270
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,280
Speaker 2: to be respectable and legitimate in the public sphere, because

271
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,560
Speaker 2: that's where the professional activities happen, in the workplace or

272
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,560
Speaker 2: in school. What are the right ways of being? And

273
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,400
Speaker 2: so I think about the work that came out of

274
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 2: as we came up out of slavery engine crow in

275
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,760
Speaker 2: this society, a lot of the way in which we

276
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,960
Speaker 2: protected ourselves were through engaging respectability politics. We were trying

277
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:06,880
Speaker 2: to show that we were respectable women so that we

278
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,880
Speaker 2: were not rapable, and that I'm saying that we were

279
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,880
Speaker 2: not that we were, that our safety was legitimate, that

280
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,960
Speaker 2: our families, that our children, that our babies deserved to

281
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 2: be safe, that our husbands are our partners if no

282
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 2: matter the relationship status or type of relationship we had,

283
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,760
Speaker 2: and all of that. So there's this notion of the

284
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 2: cult of true womanhood, and for black women, we weren't

285
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,360
Speaker 2: allowed to be included in that. That was a very

286
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:37,040
Speaker 2: particular thing. It was purity, cleanliness, religious obedience, and it

287
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,960
Speaker 2: had an assumed whiteness attached to it. And so I

288
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,480
Speaker 2: feel like when we're in the workplace, when we're being

289
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:47,400
Speaker 2: seen as being unprofessional or not carrying carrying ourselves in

290
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,480
Speaker 2: a particular way, it's because we're not carrying ourselves in

291
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,720
Speaker 2: a way where we're mimicking white women in the workplace.

292
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 2: And I think that it's really not just white women,

293
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,160
Speaker 2: but it's what whitetriarchy, what deem is acceptable for women

294
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 2: in that space, which tends to be premised on a

295
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 2: white woman. So I think that that's the conversation around

296
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,520
Speaker 2: what's professional, what the clothes that you wear this and

297
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,920
Speaker 2: the that the hair styles. Now we know that there's

298
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 2: the Crown Act and a lot of this is the

299
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,959
Speaker 2: pushing back and up and against. But underneath all of it,

300
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,919
Speaker 2: I think is inherently like very anti black act anti

301
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 2: black feminist perspectives of what it means just to be

302
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 2: your actual self and your authentic self and how you

303
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,679
Speaker 2: show up. So when we're code switching, we're really just

304
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,720
Speaker 2: trying to mimic what we believe. Like a larger and

305
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,720
Speaker 2: I talk about whiteness, not white people, but what whiteness

306
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 2: and white patriarchy, So larger systems and structures would tell

307
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,240
Speaker 2: us are the right ways to be, have and to

308
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,040
Speaker 2: be and to mimick rate imitate, But it is an imitation. Now,

309
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,000
Speaker 2: obviously there are shared cultural perspectives and value, so some

310
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,840
Speaker 2: of us get on with that. But the reality is

311
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,520
Speaker 2: that we are such a diverse all of us, all

312
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,040
Speaker 2: shades and backgrounds and racial and culture. We're so diverse.

313
00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 2: So the idea that we're trying to mimic, this very

314
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,919
Speaker 2: narrow range of actualization is set in the UK, in

315
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,880
Speaker 2: Great Britain and their their parliament, how everybody wears one

316
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,040
Speaker 2: of those wigs that the men used to wear in

317
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,399
Speaker 2: historically women black people, and it's status like a type

318
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 2: of this is the routine, This is the uniform. When

319
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,000
Speaker 2: we talk about professionalism, we're not really talking about what

320
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 2: are the dispositions and the attributes that you need to

321
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 2: have to do that job or that profession. That's professionalism.

322
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,800
Speaker 2: Everything else is other people's preferences about how I or

323
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 2: you or any of us show up.

324
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 5: Wow, that is so powerful and so deep, and it

325
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,800
Speaker 5: makes me think about how we have that internalize We

326
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 5: internalize that because I think about even my own experience

327
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,320
Speaker 5: when I was going for my one of my job

328
00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:46,919
Speaker 5: in a few years ago and I wanted to wear.

329
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 2: My apropuff and I was like, is an apple puff?

330
00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:49,919
Speaker 2: Is that professional?

331
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,359
Speaker 5: Can I wear my natural hair the way that God?

332
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:56,400
Speaker 4: Yes?

333
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? So yeah, wow, Yeah.

334
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 5: This is good for going to get back to this conversation.

335
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,200
Speaker 5: But we've got to shift up the energy just a

336
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,199
Speaker 5: little bit, doctor Wendy. So because we recognized, appreciate, and

337
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,400
Speaker 5: celebrate the multifaceted woman, and we believe that it's okay

338
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,479
Speaker 5: to be bougie and classy and ratchet all you can

339
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,199
Speaker 5: see all of it right, and you can still be

340
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,679
Speaker 5: elegant and dance to strip club music if you so choose.

341
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,400
Speaker 5: We want to invite you to the Oh you've blatchet segment.

342
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 2: Do you take on the challenge? Absolutely?

343
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, yeah, okay, Okay, So, doctor, we have three

344
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,160
Speaker 5: questions for you. We have three sentence completions, and then

345
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,600
Speaker 5: we have three photos pulled up a view and we

346
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:45,880
Speaker 5: found online. Okay, and so we want you to choose

347
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:47,679
Speaker 5: the number out of one in three and we'll reveal

348
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 5: one of those photos on the big screen, and we

349
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 5: want you to share with us in context about the photo.

350
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 2: Then we would not know just by looking at the photo. Okay.

351
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:56,280
Speaker 2: We're going to start with the questions and we're going

352
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 2: to ease into this segment.

353
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 5: So the first question for you is what's the best

354
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 5: piece of wisdom or advice you've ever received?

355
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 2: To keep the main thing? Oh? That's so good?

356
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:07,680
Speaker 1: Is that?

357
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:08,439
Speaker 2: Stephen Covey?

358
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 5: What does that mean to you when you say keep

359
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 5: the main thing? That?

360
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 2: There was a woman I was looking for mentorship when

361
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,240
Speaker 2: I first started in my professional roles, and there was

362
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,120
Speaker 2: a black woman also a counseling psychologist. So I asked her.

363
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 2: I was young, I needed to please help me know

364
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 2: what to do here, and she said, Wendy, just keeping

365
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,119
Speaker 2: the main thing, which she basically meant by that was

366
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,400
Speaker 2: that you have a lot of different ideas, a lot

367
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 2: of things that you're passionate about and you're interested in,

368
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 2: but what's the focus and don't get So it's okay

369
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,199
Speaker 2: to be ambitious, for sure, but have a sense of

370
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 2: direction and a sense of focus on what you're trying

371
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:45,679
Speaker 2: to do and what you want to do so that

372
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 2: you can actually achieve it. Keep the main thing, and

373
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 2: I always inherited in internalize that also to me, I'm

374
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 2: the main thing.

375
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,360
Speaker 4: I was out there in the world far.

376
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 2: From home, and I needed to make sure that I

377
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 2: was taking care of myself, that I'm my mom's main thing,

378
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 2: Like I need to take care of myself and make

379
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: sure that I'm resting, hydrated, moisturized, bed, eating healthfully, having

380
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: joy with people, love ones, all the things, and so

381
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 2: just not forgetting that. We can forget ourselves pretty easily.

382
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 2: For not m that is good, Thank you love that. Yes, okay.

383
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 4: So when you are in the practice of reminding yourself

384
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:28,640
Speaker 4: that you are.

385
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 2: The main thing, right.

386
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,439
Speaker 4: Well for you what sometimes for me that can involve

387
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 4: a little dancing.

388
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So.

389
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 4: The next question is doctor Wendy.

390
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am, are you going to twork or two step. Yeah,

391
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 2: I am both, so okay. What you need to know

392
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,880
Speaker 2: about me is that this week and I actually get

393
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 2: to go see the final stop on the Renaissance tour

394
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 2: and we will be working up in there. So exciting.

395
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 2: But sometimes you at the retirement party, you need to

396
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 2: do stuff because that will let people know that you're

397
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 2: here and you're festive with them, and and they can't

398
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 2: handle all the stuff that you got exactly. So are

399
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,919
Speaker 2: you okay? Know your audience. That's a little code switching up.

400
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 4: I can understand it and appreciate it.

401
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 2: Know your audience. I love it. Yes, I'm gonna do both.

402
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 2: I love it.

403
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, doctor Wendue, what's the sexiest item you own?

404
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 2: What I will say is my skin. I love being

405
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 2: a black woman, and I feel so I just I

406
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 2: know that for some people the verdict is out. The

407
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 2: verdict is not out. With me. This is the best thing.

408
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 2: I love when I am just in my fullness, when

409
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 2: a beautiful dress or bikini or whatever we're doing and

410
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 2: like all that brown is out there, that's that is it?

411
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 3: That is it?

412
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 2: That is the best answer.

413
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:57,199
Speaker 4: I love it.

414
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 5: Mike dropped. That is a great way in the segment.

415
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 5: And if We're going to jump right into our sentence compleetions.

416
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 5: I'm going to pass over it down for this.

417
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 4: Yes, all right, so our first sentence completion ship. One

418
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 4: question or topic I wish people ask me about war

419
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 4: often is.

420
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 2: Being an auntie. Oh yay. I don't have any children

421
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 2: of my own. I don't know if y'all do, but

422
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 2: my sister's children are my children. My brother's son is

423
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 2: my son. And I think that there's something so powerful

424
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: and wonderful about being the bonus adult in children's lives,

425
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 2: that parents can trust love them like one and that

426
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 2: they know love them, that they have an option because sometimes,

427
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 2: especially as my kiddles are getting older, becoming teenagers and whatnot,

428
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 2: they need other places, test out some ideas, some questions,

429
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 2: act out a little bit and get called pulled into

430
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 2: check to. I do that too, but but just have

431
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 2: that extra attention and extra love. Kids need so much attention,

432
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 2: and especially right now, positive attention, and so I really

433
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 2: it's one of my favorite things, one of the favorite

434
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 2: identities that.

435
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 7: I have.

436
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: That is so special.

437
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 5: I was going to say, I have a two year old,

438
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 5: but Dom is the stellar auntie. So Dom has nieces

439
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 5: and nephews, and she's like the rich auntie that everyone's like, yes,

440
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 5: it's called rich auntie.

441
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I will share with you. But yeah no,

442
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 2: absolutely having disposable time and income for them is actually

443
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 2: quite important. Again, kids need a little extra, especially right now.

444
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 2: So I understand that. Yeah, so we love that.

445
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 5: So the next sentence completion is the most embarrassing thing

446
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 5: I've ever done to get my precious attention.

447
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: Is it's like, oh, man.

448
00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 4: Go to the archives, right and let's bank undergrad Oh

449
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 4: you know that school? Oh maybe yesterday?

450
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 5: I oh, for crushes.

451
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: That's the that's the juiciness of life. What is the

452
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: most embarrassing thing? I did not know even ask me

453
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 2: that one? You got like new questions.

454
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 4: Surprise, I'll side out, What have I done?

455
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, is it? I don't know if

456
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: it's the most embarrassing. One of the most ridiculous things

457
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 2: I did was there? Oh I'm embarrassed, Okay, anyone wanna

458
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 2: say it? So there it was during the time I

459
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 2: was in Brooklyn, I was in New York. I lived

460
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: in New York for a number of years, and the

461
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: sky that I had a crush on owned a hairshop, barbershop, hairshop.

462
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: And it was during the time when he TI eleven

463
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, when there was a big earthquake and you know,

464
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 2: it was just like devastated, and so they were collecting

465
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 2: like diapers and sanitary napkins and stuff and punting this

466
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: big barrel together that they were sitting down and I

467
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: must have bought like so much stuff, kept bringing it

468
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: back so I can keep seeing him and breathing so

469
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 2: we could send it off. But yeah, did he notice,

470
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 2: did he like like, oh heard, listen. I'm very determinate, ambitious,

471
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: so he became my man. But that's right. But yeah,

472
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 2: but yeah, I was at the time. I was just

473
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 2: crushed out and Tiers. That's a cute story. That was fun.

474
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 4: Yes, And so our final sentence completion, Okay, what I

475
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 4: love most about myself.

476
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 2: Is what I love most about myself is that I

477
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: am a good friend. Mhm. We love it. We love it.

478
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 5: What a great way to end the sentence completion segment.

479
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 5: And now we're going to move into these photos. Doctor Wendy,

480
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 5: if you can share a number out of one and three,

481
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 5: we'll go ahead and pull that photo on the big screen.

482
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: Umber three. I'm so glad you chose this one. It's

483
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: so good.

484
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 5: Okay, So, doctor Wendy, some people are only too puning

485
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 5: into the audio. So if you can describe the photo

486
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 5: first and then give us the context.

487
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: This is the lovely photo. This is good. Okay, ooh

488
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: the story behind this one really But it is a

489
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: black and white photo and it is being taken outdoors.

490
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm wearing a dress that I like. I

491
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: love that dress than cute And what else would I say?

492
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 2: Does that feel like enough of a description to the truth.

493
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 5: That's a great description, okay? Yeah, And what's the what

494
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 5: are we doing here? Just like some context about the photo?

495
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 5: So is what happened before the photo after it is

496
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 5: a significant day or time in life?

497
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 2: Or this was actually like a photo shoot to take

498
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 2: photos for my website, and I was the photographer. We

499
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 2: were outdoors on the campus of Mills colle in Oakland

500
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 2: in the Bay Area, and I used to be the

501
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: dean of the School of Education there and so we

502
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 2: were taking these photos. Actually right outside my office, there

503
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 2: was this corridor where on one side was a children's

504
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 2: school serves children ages zero to ten years old, and

505
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 2: then on the other side were the classrooms and the

506
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: administrative offices, and so office space was actually off to

507
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 2: the the Latan sign or my vantage.

508
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 5: This is a beautiful photo. It is so it's like

509
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 5: very powerful. Yeah, we just look at it like, oh,

510
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 5: look at this powerful black moment. Thank you for sharing.

511
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: That was so fun.

512
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 5: That concludes are you not too bad? Rights?

513
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: I was like, what photo?

514
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 4: What?

515
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 5: I think everyone feel that way. They're like, oh, my goodness.

516
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 5: The final line.

517
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: And so we're going to jump right back.

518
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 5: Into some of these questions after Wendy, And one question

519
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 5: we have for you is what advice do you have

520
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 5: for women who've been accused of being the angry black

521
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 5: woman at work? And what's wrong with that stereotype and

522
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 5: how can one combat at or embrace it.

523
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: I think, actually, we think about that song by Solange.

524
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: We got a lot to be mad about, Like, we

525
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: do have a lot to be mad about that, there's

526
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 2: a lot going on that's not okay. I don't think

527
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: that the problem is the anger. I think that the

528
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: problem is that there's again like this. It goes back

529
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: to me to like the stereotypes and the narrow band

530
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 2: of possibilities that are offered to us in terms of

531
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: what we can be. We are all things, but somehow

532
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: they landed on angry, and I would add strong black women,

533
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: which and sometimes people think when you're being strong or

534
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: angry anyway, Ultimately, what I would say to women in

535
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 2: terms of advice is you actually can't really control how

536
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: people are going to respond to you, what they're going

537
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: to think about you. And I think the mistake for

538
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 2: us and I have fallen victim to it too, is

539
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: to try to control that. Ultimately, I think we do

540
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: things like curb our voice because we don't want to

541
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: be seen a certain way. We're still preoccupied with managing

542
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: it that we are not our actual selves or our

543
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 2: true selves, and so there's a lot of blockage there,

544
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: and particularly when we're at work for professional or leadership positions.

545
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: If you block one, I'm a psychologist. I believe if

546
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 2: you block one part of your life, you're blocking others.

547
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: So when you're not being your full self in every

548
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: facet and being authentic and true to you, that means

549
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: that you're not able to access all your creativity. You're

550
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: not able to access all your ingenuity, innovation, you're not

551
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: able to access your full heart. That means that your partner,

552
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: your family, your loved ones are going to get limited

553
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: expressions from you because of there's no way to turn

554
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: it on and off. In that way, it's very labor intensive,

555
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 2: and ultimately I think about that quote by Tony Morrison

556
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: where she says that racism basically serves as a distraction.

557
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: I think that this is just a big old distraction,

558
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: and I think that it serves to limit our sense

559
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: of power and authenticity and are just all the things

560
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: that are so beautiful about us. So that's ultimately what

561
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 2: I would say. I would actually urge folks to just

562
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: figure out ways to be your authentic self in these spaces,

563
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: and the best way that you can temper it for

564
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 2: who you're with and know their limitations is not your limitation,

565
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: and make sure that you carve out enough other spaces

566
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: where you can be all of your whole self in

567
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 2: case that doesn't happen at work, because I do got

568
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: to be realistic and appreciate that there are limits to

569
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: this thing, but in every other place you have to

570
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: be your whole self to counter that thing too, if

571
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: in fact you're feeling restricted. But sometimes I have to

572
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 2: say that no one's asking us to put on those masks.

573
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: We just put it on because we think we have to.

574
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 8: Hey girl, Hey, we hope you're enjoying this conversation as

575
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 8: much as we are. But let's be real, it costs

576
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 8: money to podcast, and we got bills to pay. So

577
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,239
Speaker 8: enjoy this commercial break as you process what we've been

578
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 8: talking about. And remember, when you support our sponsors, you're

579
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 8: also supporting us. Protective styles, Apple, sitting in candles, family gatherings,

580
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 8: terrible boh. Let's face it, Summer isn't the only time

581
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 8: we get body over. We can get just a smell

582
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 8: under our favorite falseweaters. That's why we're excited to tell

583
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 8: you all about Looony, whole body deodorant for pits, privates,

584
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 8: and beyond. Loomy was created by an OBG I N

585
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 8: who discovered improved in clinical testing that the vagina is

586
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 8: not to blame for day to day odor below the belot,

587
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 8: so she developed Loomy, a uniquely formulated, pH balanced deodorant.

588
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 8: It's aluminum free, skin safe, and clinically proven to control

589
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 8: older for up to seventy two hours. Right now, they

590
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 8: have a special offer where new customers get five dollars

591
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 8: off Loomy Starter pack with our exclusive code and link.

592
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 8: Use code her space at Loomideodorant dot com.

593
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 5: That's l U M E d E O d O

594
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 5: r a nt dot com. Lady trust us on this

595
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 5: Domini use Loomy every day.

596
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 3: I personally love the toasted cocaine that de Orderant. I

597
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 3: use that on my underarms and it leaves me smelling

598
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 3: so fresh. Loomy Starter Pack is perfect for new customers.

599
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: It comes with a solid stick Deorderant cream tube Deorderant,

600
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 3: two free products of your choice like the Minibody wash

601
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 3: and the Deorderant whites, and it comes with free shipping.

602
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 3: As a special offer for our listeners, new customers get

603
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 3: five dollars off of Loomy Starter Pack with code her

604
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: space at Loomydeorderant dot com. That equates to over forty

605
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 3: percent off your starter pack when you visit gloomydeorderant dot

606
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 3: com and use code per space.

607
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 8: Let's get back into it.

608
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: And so we have to really check ourselves around. Have

609
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 2: we internalized anti blackness and anti black feminism and anti

610
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 2: feminist ways of thinking about ourselves where we were shrinking

611
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: ourselves and maybe question that a bit more and push

612
00:33:54,360 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 2: against that. That was the whole sermon. Yes, that was okay.

613
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 4: So the question that immediately came up for me as

614
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 4: you were saying there is, well, our listeners, and I

615
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 4: know that some folks are sitting there and they're like, oh,

616
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 4: that might be.

617
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 2: Talking about me. There's a whole read going on.

618
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 9: Right, Okay, So what does that look like? How does

619
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 9: that show up? If we are in a space where

620
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 9: we have internalized anti blackness and we are engaging in

621
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 9: the behaviors of what the patriarchy and white supremacy says

622
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 9: we should do, how do we know that we're engaging

623
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 9: in it.

624
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 2: One of the surefire ways to get at that is

625
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: how you're looking at other black women and other black people.

626
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 2: Are you feeling embarrassed because of how somebody else is acting? Why?

627
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 2: What is it about? Do you want them to dress

628
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: a different way or to act a different Why what

629
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 2: is what they're doing not to do with you? Now?

630
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 2: I know that there are there is this work where

631
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 2: we talk talk about the relationship that we have with

632
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 2: folks in the black community in terms of the sort

633
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 2: of empathy and sort of connection that we have abound

634
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 2: being members of the same community. And I get that,

635
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,479
Speaker 2: and that is real, But there's also ways we're acting

636
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 2: where we're judging other people, and we feel more license

637
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: to judge O the black folks that we do so

638
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: in the presence of those who are not black, to

639
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 2: show our affiliation that we're not like that. And so

640
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: I think that when you're doing like that's one way

641
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 2: to know when you have your own internal reaction or

642
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: response to other black people and that there's judgment and

643
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: shame attached to that. Sometimes it's not that, though, just

644
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: sometimes it is your own internal sense of yourself. The

645
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 2: worry that you're not okay, that you're not good enough,

646
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 2: the anxiety, the depression, the overwhelmed, the exhaustion, all of

647
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: these things. Like all those reactions, they are big reactions

648
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 2: and ultimately they can be quite exhausting. So how and

649
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 2: in what ways might you be judging yourself, not feeling

650
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 2: good about yourself, not accepting yourself, And what's underneath that,

651
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 2: what is it about you that's not okay? Really? I'm

652
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: a big fan of therapy. I'm not a practicing psychologist,

653
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: but I have seen a psychologist, and I believe in therapy.

654
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: Folks need to check out talking with someone who can

655
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: help you through these kinds of things in probe in

656
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: these ways with these types of questions and reflect back

657
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 2: to you what they hear you saying. Because sometimes that loneness,

658
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: that feeling that you have, it's not your birth bright.

659
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: You were born with every every entitlement to joy, and

660
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: so if you're walking around without that, I say, maybe

661
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 2: look into getting some help and some support with that,

662
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 2: and making sure that you have people around you that

663
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: can support you with that, friends, family, and loved ones.

664
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 5: And also professional support. Is that's what it's there for,

665
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 5: h Just processing that is good? Yeah, how would you

666
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 5: say we can cultivate a culture of empathy in the workplace?

667
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 5: That question felt a little hard for me, to be

668
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 5: quite honest, because I felt part of as a leader

669
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 5: I can say, gosh, this is that would be my

670
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 5: job to create the culture, support and create the conditions

671
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 5: for that culture. And also I know that in leadership

672
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 5: that can be quite difficult to do because we have

673
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 5: a very punishing and very unforgiving culture. When in the book,

674
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 5: what I write about are that it's the second half

675
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 5: of the colon, the refusal and recovery, And I think

676
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 5: that part of what I think about with refusal is

677
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 5: that essentially these are this is an approach to setting

678
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 5: boundaries for yourself to preserve yourself and your psychology, your

679
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 5: integrity in spaces that might be toxic or harmful. And

680
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 5: so when we think about the ways in which we

681
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 5: might have to refuse or pull back our energy or

682
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 5: quiet quit maybe or let people just be a work

683
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 5: friend or whatever it is, these are some of those tactics.

684
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 5: I think that ultimately what we're doing there is creating

685
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 5: a little bit of space. And I think that when

686
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 5: you create space for yourself. I know for myself, when

687
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 5: I create space for myself, it creates more generosity for others.

688
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 5: When I take care of myself, then.

689
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 2: I'm mindful of the other things that other people need

690
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 2: to take so they can be taken care of. I'm

691
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: concerned about them in that way too. If I say

692
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 2: to myself, oh well none of us got to eat,

693
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 2: bunch said who are you? Then okay, so there's no

694
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 2: care and there's no empathy there. But if I can

695
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 2: first cultivate love and empathy and care for me, then

696
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: it's easier to extend it to others. It's like what

697
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 2: they say, put the mask on yourself first, and then

698
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 2: for others too. I think it's about self love and

699
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 2: self care that then when you cultivate and generate it,

700
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 2: you can give it to other people. You actually can't

701
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 2: really you don't really have much to give others if

702
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 2: you haven't really given it to yourself. So I think

703
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 2: about it in that way, building connection, like connecting to

704
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: yourself and then building connection and affiliation with others where

705
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 2: you actually do give a damn about other people and

706
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 2: not be so focused. But we are in a moment

707
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: where I think it's a little challenging. We've been so

708
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 2: self focused a little bit of the social media and narcisses.

709
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 2: It's pervaded a lot of aspects of our of who

710
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 2: we are. And so there's that I would say, as

711
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 2: a leader in workplaces, because I do have that role,

712
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 2: create the policies and the conditions that and the practices

713
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 2: that will cultivate the conditions. Sometimes folks need a container,

714
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: and so you need to tell them what to do

715
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 2: and tell them what will and won't happen. And when

716
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: you're the boss, that's your job and that is protective

717
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 2: of everybody, including yourself.

718
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 4: Thanks you for that. And as you were answering several

719
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 4: of our questions, what comes up for me is understanding

720
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 4: what liberation means right, and so for our listeners, can

721
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 4: you defering what black women liberation and liberatory practices?

722
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 2: Look?

723
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 4: What's that really?

724
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 2: What mean? Yeah?

725
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 4: And how does it show up in the workplace?

726
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's one of the the reasons why I

727
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: started my podcast because I wanted to hear black women

728
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: leaders talk about their practice and how they're leading. A

729
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 2: lot of times the guests on the podcast are like, well,

730
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: what do you want me to talk about? I'm like,

731
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 2: I want you to tell me how you do what

732
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 2: you do, and it comes off and it shows up

733
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: in a variety of ways and their work. But what

734
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 2: I would ultimately say is that these are mindsets and

735
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 2: maneuvers that we observe black women engage, and I would

736
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 2: say the full range of diversity black women. We are

737
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 2: not a monolith and we are not the same. So

738
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 2: I don't want to suggest that in any shape, way

739
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: or form. But what I do know is that we

740
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 2: because of shared experiences around sexism and racism and classism

741
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 2: and just again that narrow limited way in which the

742
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 2: society and the world would like to see us, then

743
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 2: we have a way of navigating in and around that.

744
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 2: So we can actually make moves. So whether that's how

745
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: gosh the cistern down in Georgia galvanized the movement for

746
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 2: voters on twenty twenty twelve. Ye what yeah, just they

747
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: did it, no matter, there's a way that they do it.

748
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 2: You see it in big ways, but you also see

749
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 2: it in small ways. I see it again and my

750
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 2: grandmother who is a leader in our family, and my

751
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 2: great grandmother who is a leader in our family, and

752
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: I tell some of the stories of the lessons that

753
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 2: we draw from them because it is coming from the

754
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 2: elder women in our families of making a way making

755
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 2: it happen, not seeing the lack of opportunity that the

756
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 2: wider world would limit for us, but rather saying, oh

757
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 2: they're not allowing it, but our children, our community, our babies,

758
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 2: our families need to have access to this than that

759
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 2: kind of thing, and making sure that it happens. So

760
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 2: when I talk about black women's liberatory leadership proxies, it's

761
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 2: really thinking about the ways in which we move the

762
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: mindset that you have to move and maneuver in and

763
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 2: around the limited prescriptions that folks would have around what

764
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 2: is accessible or what black people can have, what black

765
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 2: families can have because oftentimes not on their own. Black

766
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: men are there too, but black women are often navigate

767
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:01,959
Speaker 2: and creating that way.

768
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 5: So good At Wendy, you talked a little bit about

769
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 5: your book, and we talked about it in the beginning

770
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 5: as well, can you tell us something that you learned

771
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 5: when you were writing your book?

772
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: Gosh, your face was like, oh right, let me take

773
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 2: us in four. I started writing that book in twenty eighteen.

774
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 2: I was still living in I know, I got the

775
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 2: book contract in twenty eighteen. I was still living in

776
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 2: New York. I was doing all sorts of things, moved

777
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 2: to California, took a new job, all the rest, and

778
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 2: so it took time to get deep into the book.

779
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 2: But also I think that it was also important for

780
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 2: me to have the life experiences that came in the

781
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 2: thick of writing that book. And we were in the

782
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 2: pandemic and I was going through a very difficult work

783
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 2: life transition. The job at Mills College where I was

784
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: they closed, I don't know, yeah, big clothes and I

785
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 2: was right there, Oh, you just moved across the country.

786
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 2: My family is here, but wow, writing that book, I

787
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: had to dig deep and be really honest and so

788
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 2: like super duper honest. So I know when I'm speaking

789
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 2: with you both it's a lot, it can be a lot,

790
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 2: but it's because I've done the work, and I have

791
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 2: really done the work to be honest about what is

792
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: happening in the spaces. I had to also in trying

793
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 2: to and it goes back to what we started with

794
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 2: in this conversation around making sure that what you're writing

795
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 2: and sharing is accessible to people. I needed to put

796
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: it into playing words like what is happening and how

797
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 2: it feels. I don't think that we talk about that

798
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 2: second part enough how it feels. I came up as

799
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: a little black girl, a little smart black girl, going

800
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 2: to college and doing all the things, and no one

801
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: really acknowledges like how hard it is to have all

802
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 2: that potential, and for no reason that you can understand,

803
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: for people not to be supportive of you. You're just

804
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 2: a little girl trying to do the things that you

805
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 2: were told were the right things to do, and somehow

806
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 2: there's a whole system that's trying not to like it's

807
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 2: hard to understand. And so as auntie of four girls,

808
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: I'm particularly sensitive to that with them and on the

809
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 2: ways in which as a family we pour into them

810
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 2: and give them ways of thinking about themselves that are

811
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 2: irrespective and independent of the larger world's perspective. I think

812
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 2: to like how Venus and Serena's father was with them,

813
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 2: like it was their perspective of their game, and their

814
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: performance was independent of who they were performing against or

815
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: who they were playing against, and people thought that they

816
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,720
Speaker 2: were being very vain, but that was just very protective.

817
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 2: He understood the assignment of being a black father of

818
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 2: black girls and black children in this country. And so

819
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 2: I would say, rounding all that back, to name those

820
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 2: kinds of things and to be very real means that

821
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: I have to be real and I have to be

822
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: raw for myself in order to deliver it. I know

823
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 2: I've accomplished that because of some of the feedback that

824
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,240
Speaker 2: folks have giving me about the book, particularly close friends

825
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 2: who I really do trust, who have had their own

826
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 2: difficult experiences, and the ways they've told me they've responded

827
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 2: to my words. I also know I've accomplished it because

828
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 2: when you read my words to me, it hurts sometimes

829
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh gosh, because it's honest, and so that's

830
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: what I've learned. More. I'd like my own excavation of

831
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: my own heart in terms of how hard it is

832
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 2: and how painful it is to work so hard, to

833
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 2: try so hard, and to realize that there really are

834
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: whole systems that are working against you and you don't

835
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 2: even know who they are. They don't even know who

836
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: you are.

837
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and doctor Wendy, we thank you for writing this book.

838
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.

839
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 4: Thank you for digging deep and doing the work and

840
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 4: putting it out there so that those of us who

841
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 4: might not have the words for ourselves but know but

842
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 4: feel it in our bodies what this experience is, what

843
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 4: it's like to be a black woman in the workplace

844
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 4: and to not be seen, to not be heard, or

845
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 4: to have our work taken from us or used against them.

846
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for writing this book. And I

847
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 4: know that our listeners, after listening to this interview and

848
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 4: catching all of these gems that you have shared with

849
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 4: us today, they're going to want to connect you. And

850
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 4: so can you share with our audience where they can

851
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 4: find your book because they all need to read it.

852
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 4: Where they can find your book and where they can

853
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 4: connect with you and also listen to your podcast.

854
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 2: Everything is at doctor Wendy Williams dot com because I

855
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: think we should make a sad book. But I'm also

856
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 2: on Instagram and I like to sometimes do what I've

857
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 2: done in the book, which is look at some popular

858
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 2: examples of things that are happening just in the discourse

859
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 2: and link it back to these some of the concepts

860
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 2: that are lifted up in the book, so that we

861
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 2: understand what we're looking at and why we feel the

862
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 2: ways we feel when we see what we see happening

863
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 2: in the public space. Oh good, Thank you so much,

864
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 2: doctor Wenderwey.

865
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 5: I appreciate you in your time and the work that

866
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 5: you're doing in the world, and we would love to

867
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 5: keep in touch with you.

868
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Thank you so appreciative to be

869
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 2: here with you.

870
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us today. Please note that our show

871
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 3: may contain conversations about self help, advice, self empowerment, and

872
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 3: mental health, but is by no means meant to be

873
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 3: a substitute for an ongoing formal relationship with a trained

874
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 3: mental health provider. If you are someone you know is

875
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 3: in need of mental health care, please visit a Therapy

876
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 3: for Black Girls directory Psychology today or contact your insurance provider.

877
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 5: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

878
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 5: the conversation going, Visit our website at herspace podcast dot

879
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 5: com and be sure to click the Patreon tab to

880
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 5: get access to video content bonuses in our weekly after

881
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 5: show and before we Meet again, repeat after Me. Every

882
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 5: dream within me exists because it's possible.