Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Now, let's talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about the markets and the economy with Katie Nixon.
Speaker 1: She is chief investment officer at Northern Trust Wealth Management,
Speaker 1: joining us out of Rye, New York. And let's get
Speaker 1: first to UM your expectations for the number on Friday
Speaker 1: and how it plays into what we heard from the
Speaker 1: FED at Jackson Hole. Katie, Well, good morning and thanks
Speaker 1: for having me. I mean, I guess would be right
Speaker 1: around the consensus for the Friday number around seven fifty,
Speaker 1: a little bit of a decline from UM from last month.
Speaker 1: But I think the point is this data for the
Speaker 1: next several weeks, I mean maybe months, is going to
Speaker 1: just be really really noisy. As we're seeing UM some
Speaker 1: of this UH this other data command a bit softer
Speaker 1: than expected relative to UH pre delta expectations. So I
Speaker 1: think we're going to be in this period of sort
Speaker 1: of give and take with the with the macro data,
Speaker 1: which I mean again for for investors. It's very consistent
Speaker 1: with what we heard from the Fed on on Friday,
Speaker 1: from Powell on Friday, that you know, he's keeping his
Speaker 1: options open, all right. Well, I think investors need Katie
Speaker 1: to keep their options open as well. I'm looking at
Speaker 1: the tenure here, just stubbornly staying around this one point
Speaker 1: three zero level, seemingly in a trading bound. Tough to
Speaker 1: make a living down there at that kind of rate.
Speaker 1: Where are you kind of as you talk to clients
Speaker 1: here and you and your advisors at Northern Trust, where
Speaker 1: are you telling them to go in terms of asset
Speaker 1: allocation right here? Well, you know, I think this is
Speaker 1: a very very important um discussion to have right now,
Speaker 1: because there is this sort of feeling that we should
Speaker 1: be out of bonds because rates are so low. Um.
Speaker 1: But what we're telling our clients is, you know, fixed
Speaker 1: income plays high quality fixed income plays a really important
Speaker 1: role in your portfolio, even at these levels of yield,
Speaker 1: these low levels of yield, which, by the way, we
Speaker 1: expect you're going to stay low for probably even longer
Speaker 1: than the market expects. So get used to these uh
Speaker 1: these low yields are going to be with us for
Speaker 1: a while. But the role of fixed and the portfolio
Speaker 1: is to provide you that diversification. And what would seem
Speaker 1: time and time again is during stressful times in the market,
Speaker 1: risk assets all sort of performed the same UM. So
Speaker 1: we want to make sure that our clients have the
Speaker 1: right amount of fixed in. You don't want too much
Speaker 1: because the yields are so low, but you want to
Speaker 1: have uh an amount of fixed income that's going to
Speaker 1: help you meet your your goals during times of market
Speaker 1: stress and not force you to sell risk assets. But
Speaker 1: beyond that, within our risk asset portfolio, I'll tell you
Speaker 1: one area that we like right now. Obviously we like
Speaker 1: US equities that's worth you know, we've seen very strong growth.
Speaker 1: We continue to think we're gonna see from my to
Speaker 1: me into two and perhaps even beyond from an earnings perspective.
Speaker 1: UM the Feds on hold, so you know, the rate
Speaker 1: environment's going to stay very constructive also for the next
Speaker 1: several years. But we also like high yield and we're seeing,
Speaker 1: you know, the credit worthiness of high yield credits improve
Speaker 1: over this cycle, and we expect are going to continue
Speaker 1: to improve and we can see spreads grinds even tighter
Speaker 1: than they are right now. So US equities high yield,
Speaker 1: that's sort of where we're leaning into from a tactical
Speaker 1: perspective and our risk asset portfolio. What kind of taper
Speaker 1: do you want to see? UM? What kind of taper
Speaker 1: you know is helpful to your investors? Right? Well, we
Speaker 1: are expecting the taper to be very slow and very delivered.
Speaker 1: So six and nine months of tapering UM hopefully will
Speaker 1: be sort of back to the future and watching pink
Speaker 1: dry as I think Janet Allen said uh in the
Speaker 1: previous taper. UM, So we don't think it's going to
Speaker 1: be a meaningful event to the market. UM. We only
Speaker 1: have one data point the last time we went through tapering,
Speaker 1: and you know, after the taper tantrum, which is really
Speaker 1: a communication issue, the market really absorbed the taper very
Speaker 1: very well and then starts to focus on the next move,
Speaker 1: which is when are we going to see rates increase
Speaker 1: in For US, we may see a liftop in twenty three,
Speaker 1: but if we do, it's going to be much slower
Speaker 1: and much lower than the market thinks. So given that backdrop, Katie,
Speaker 1: in terms of the equity side of the business, are
Speaker 1: are you suggesting to your representatives and your clients that
Speaker 1: they focus more on maybe the good strong top line
Speaker 1: growth stories maybe in tech and healthcare or um maybe
Speaker 1: go into that lean into that rotation trade which has
Speaker 1: been working so well, which is more cyclical, uh sectors
Speaker 1: maybe like you know, banks or or energy. Where where
Speaker 1: are you on that discussion? Yeah, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: it's important to take a diversified approach. I think investors
Speaker 1: have learned this year especially that having both is kind
Speaker 1: of the way you want to go, because we've seen
Speaker 1: this pivot between growth and you for example, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we've had we had a value of performance
Speaker 1: and now sort of hear a date, growth is edging
Speaker 1: out value. They've both had very good absolute performance, but
Speaker 1: we've seen sort of that pivot between growth and value
Speaker 1: happen a lot of time. So we we advise our
Speaker 1: clients to lean into both and not to have to
Speaker 1: pick a side in this um in this race. One
Speaker 1: of the things that we are looking at though a
Speaker 1: lot right now, is helping the quality of our of
Speaker 1: our equity investment. So really looking at a quality as
Speaker 1: a factor and sort of adding that into the portfolios
Speaker 1: as we as we can. Katie, thanks so much for
Speaker 1: joining us. Great to get your insight on what is
Speaker 1: actually an exciting time, even though you know yields are
Speaker 1: low and it may be UM difficult. Your job might
Speaker 1: be more difficult than normally would be UM. Certainly from
Speaker 1: a journalistic perspective, it is fascinating to follow, even if J.
Speaker 1: Powell's intonation could be a little bit more exciting. Yes,
Speaker 1: exactly when he's reading a speech, I just want to
Speaker 1: go with him and just go through it once or twice,
Speaker 1: a little coaching. But I mean I found, you know,
Speaker 1: especially his defense of UM the inflation picture and their
Speaker 1: inflation take, I thought was spot on, and I think
Speaker 1: um Katie did too. She's got a great note that
Speaker 1: you can check out on the Northern Trust website and
Speaker 1: highly recommend going to wealth dot Northern Trust dot com
Speaker 1: to check that out. Katie Nixon um joining us the
Speaker 1: c i O of Northern Trust Wealth Management. This is Bloomberg. Now.
Speaker 1: We told you at the top of the show about
Speaker 1: thirty minutes ago that we saw the Consumer Board Consumer sorry,
Speaker 1: the Conference Board Consumer Confidence index coming out at one
Speaker 1: thirteen point eight. We were looking for a reading of
Speaker 1: one three and the prior reading was one twenty nine.
Speaker 1: So it looks a little bit soft here. Let's and
Speaker 1: Lynn Franco, Director of Economic Indicators and Surveys from the
Speaker 1: Conference Board. And Lynn, this actually makes sense considering the
Speaker 1: other high frequency data we've seen. Is just is this
Speaker 1: just an end of summer vacation thing, um, a little
Speaker 1: bit of cloudy vision into the beginning of school year?
Speaker 1: Why is this? I think what we're seeing here is
Speaker 1: rising concerns about the delta variant and to a somewhat
Speaker 1: lesser degree, consumers expressing some concern about rising gas and
Speaker 1: food prices. Uh, so we've seen that not only take
Speaker 1: a bite out of how they assess current economic conditions,
Speaker 1: but also pass somewhat of a cloud over their short
Speaker 1: term prospects. So it's virus and inflation, yes, And I
Speaker 1: mean the good news within this is that the employment
Speaker 1: indicators did not really decline substantially, so you know, we
Speaker 1: do expect the economy and the job market to remain strong. Hopefully, um,
Speaker 1: you know, can get a handle around this recent surge
Speaker 1: and that will help sort of alleviate some of consumers concerns,
Speaker 1: but it could pose a little bit of a you know,
Speaker 1: headwind to UH spending, especially in person spending. So Lynn
Speaker 1: talked to us on a FOP a little bit on
Speaker 1: that on that labor issue there, because we still have
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of folks that are out of work,
Speaker 1: but there's also a lot of openings out there and
Speaker 1: a lot of companies are raising pay How does the
Speaker 1: kind of the labor outlook factor in. I think the
Speaker 1: labor outlook, especially what we're seeing in our report that
Speaker 1: remained more favorable than the economic outlook, which I think
Speaker 1: is good news, you know, to help support spending. We
Speaker 1: do know that at least in terms of claims and
Speaker 1: other labor data, you know, we're sort of getting back
Speaker 1: to more favorable readings. So we hope that will help
Speaker 1: boost confidence in the coming months. And in fact, if
Speaker 1: we take a look at their spending intentions, um, you
Speaker 1: know here too, we saw a little bit of going
Speaker 1: off endurables and autos and home purchase intentions UH, and
Speaker 1: a shift more towards in person. We saw a little
Speaker 1: bit of a pickup and travel intentions UM. So that
Speaker 1: I think was a sort of good news, there is
Speaker 1: at least some willingness to continue to spend. You know,
Speaker 1: we all um watch LYNN and markets very closely. The
Speaker 1: non farm payrolls number. It's been referred to as the
Speaker 1: Granddaddy of economic indicators. Does the consumer care about this
Speaker 1: kind of data? Well, I think, you know, obviously they do.
Speaker 1: It impacts them. It supports consumer confidence. And we've only
Speaker 1: had a slight uptick in the percent of consumers who
Speaker 1: were telling us jobs are hard to get right, So
Speaker 1: I think that's somewhat favorable news and their outlook. Even
Speaker 1: though we saw a little bit of a decline in
Speaker 1: their outlook regarding where the labor markets headed, it still
Speaker 1: remains very positive overall. So it could be that this
Speaker 1: is sort of more delta driven than jobs driven and
Speaker 1: LYNN work. Some of the sub elemental unemployment benefits are
Speaker 1: set to expire in early September. How do you think
Speaker 1: that's going to be reflected in the data. I think
Speaker 1: what we're seeing here is we saw a little bit
Speaker 1: of a decline in the percent of consumers have said
Speaker 1: they expect their incomes to increase over the coming months.
Speaker 1: But we know right now from not only this survey,
Speaker 1: but other surveys UM that you know, most people are
Speaker 1: sort of stashing away the extra money. We saw an
Speaker 1: uptick in the savings rate, so at least consumers are
Speaker 1: somewhat willing and able to spend. I think just what
Speaker 1: we're seeing here is a little concern about the delta
Speaker 1: variant and that could likely impact in person services over
Speaker 1: the coming months. Is the vaccine rate at all playing
Speaker 1: into this, the fact that you know, certainly from our
Speaker 1: perspective here in Europe, Americans just aren't getting vaccinated as
Speaker 1: fast as we thought they would or as fast as
Speaker 1: we are. Well, I think if we see an uptick
Speaker 1: in vaccination rates which have that may help offset some
Speaker 1: of the concerns about UM, you know, the increase in
Speaker 1: the spread of the delta variant, So that would be
Speaker 1: one way to sort of counter the concern. Heylyn, thanks
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Lin Franco,
Speaker 1: director of Economic Indicators and Surveys at the conference board.
Speaker 1: I want to bring in Joni right now. He's the
Speaker 1: CEO of e Toro joining us on the phone out
Speaker 1: of Israel, and I am very familiar with the TORO.
Speaker 1: I worked with a number of your analysts had them
Speaker 1: on various programs. You so, I get it. But you
Speaker 1: say you're the world's leading social investment network. That's the tagline.
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Hi, and thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I'm actually here in New York. Um uh so very
Speaker 1: quickly is the largest social investment network. We have twenty
Speaker 1: two million registered users, mostly outside of the US, who
Speaker 1: registered to our social network where our users can trade
Speaker 1: from and free stock trading as well as cryptocurrencies within
Speaker 1: a social network, So everybody can actually see the most
Speaker 1: successful investors performance over time UH, their monthly UH performance
Speaker 1: as well as their actual portfolio location and communicate and
Speaker 1: collaborate with one another, and then use our patent technology
Speaker 1: to automatically copy the most successful investors. So if you
Speaker 1: see an investor which generated thirty percent returns every year
Speaker 1: for the past five years on average, you just click
Speaker 1: copy with let's say five thousand dollars in it copies
Speaker 1: his entire portfolio into your portfolio for that five thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: and every time he trades, it trades in your account
Speaker 1: at the same time, the same price and the same proportion.
Speaker 1: So he basically brought in the sharing economy into the
Speaker 1: world of trading and investing. So as you think about
Speaker 1: your customer base, JUNI, I mean obviously a big, big
Speaker 1: increase uh since the pandemic. How permanent is that, how
Speaker 1: sticky is that? How do you think about the growth
Speaker 1: of the folks that you know would be interested in
Speaker 1: your platform? First, First of all, we definitely have seen
Speaker 1: explosive growth over the past eighteen months since that I
Speaker 1: would generally say an inflection point that started the rise
Speaker 1: of millennial investors all over the world. In March, we
Speaker 1: just recently announced our Q two earnings this year. Uh,
Speaker 1: and we grew from Q two last year to Q
Speaker 1: two this year between a hundred and twenty and a
Speaker 1: hundred forty percent on various KPIs from registered users, where
Speaker 1: we added more than two and a half million registered
Speaker 1: users just this quarter in Q two. I think we
Speaker 1: are seeing again a very significant secular trend where there's
Speaker 1: a whole generation people who didn't participate in capital markets before,
Speaker 1: both in the US but also all around the world
Speaker 1: in your up in a Asia, who are simply asking
Speaker 1: what to do with our money, where to invest our money? Uh?
Speaker 1: And maybe it starts with a bigger question, which is
Speaker 1: a very big discussion right now all over the world
Speaker 1: what is the value of my money, which again comes
Speaker 1: from a confluence of circumstances of zero interest rates, a
Speaker 1: very big discussion about inflation, UH, and the fact that
Speaker 1: governments all around the world are printing money and at
Speaker 1: unprecedented rates are leading a whole generation to ask, what
Speaker 1: is the value of my dollars or euros or pounds
Speaker 1: and where can I invest my money so it will
Speaker 1: grow over time. I'm not sure if you saw the
Speaker 1: John Paulson interview UM with David Rubinstein we had on
Speaker 1: the area yesterday, but essentially the investor so famous for
Speaker 1: his big short during the crash of the housing market,
Speaker 1: said he doesn't recommend buying crypto at all. He thinks
Speaker 1: it's just worthless UM asset that is speculated on because
Speaker 1: of you know, I think what was the line, paul
Speaker 1: limited availability, limited supply of nothing. UM. Do you think
Speaker 1: it matters to UM young investors today? What the hedge
Speaker 1: fund titans of yesteryear think about crypto? I think not
Speaker 1: everybody has to love every asset in order for that
Speaker 1: asset to be successful over time. Not everybody loves Facebook.
Speaker 1: But Facebook is a successful company and a lot of
Speaker 1: investors in a Facebook stock have a scene appreciation over time.
Speaker 1: I can definitely say the same about Tesla stock and
Speaker 1: Amazon stock, who have had a lot of uh negative
Speaker 1: sort of people talk about it in sort of in
Speaker 1: past years, right when when Amazon in the only two
Speaker 1: thousands in Tesla just three, four or five years ago.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, every investor has his own right
Speaker 1: to analyze and to evaluate different markets. There's no doubt
Speaker 1: that the crypto markets one are super interesting and second
Speaker 1: are a sort of a generational asset class. The majority
Speaker 1: of investors any toro are under forty uh and uh.
Speaker 1: The majority of investors a toro hold both equities, so
Speaker 1: both stock markets as well as crypto assets. So I
Speaker 1: would generally say it's great when we have super smart
Speaker 1: people like Elon Musk, Casey wood and and and Jack
Speaker 1: Dorsey talk about crypto and and believe in in bitcoin
Speaker 1: and support it. But you don't need necessarily every investor
Speaker 1: in the world to believe in bitcoin in order for
Speaker 1: it to be successful over time. So generally you should
Speaker 1: always expect some people naysayers, otherwise the price would already moon.
Speaker 1: So you only I guess probably one of the next
Speaker 1: steps that a lot of people are are looking at
Speaker 1: in terms of the development of the crypto market. Writ
Speaker 1: large is some type of regulation. UH. What is your
Speaker 1: view of regulating the crypto market? How do you think
Speaker 1: it should play out? UM? What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 1: So we've we've founded ed Toro before crypto was out there,
Speaker 1: and we are a regulated financial institution. Were regulated in Europe,
Speaker 1: in the UK and Australia here in the US as
Speaker 1: well as expanding our our regulatory licenses both in Asia
Speaker 1: and the Middle East. So there's no doubt that when
Speaker 1: you think about consumers, when you think about retail investors, U,
Speaker 1: regulators are there to protect customers interest. That is the
Speaker 1: role and that is why a significant part of retail
Speaker 1: investors will eventually work with regulated financial institutions. I think
Speaker 1: regulators are definitely catching up. They see a lot of
Speaker 1: the benefits of blockchain technology UH and its value actually
Speaker 1: to eventually provide both innovation and protection to customers interests UH.
Speaker 1: And I think what we're seeing now, as we see
Speaker 1: in any innovation in any market that's regulated, regulators are
Speaker 1: learning and are putting in the rules in place to
Speaker 1: be able from one hand, to promote innovation and to
Speaker 1: to enable efficient markets and the growth of those markets,
Speaker 1: and in the same time protect customer interests. And we
Speaker 1: see that with with regulators all around the world. I
Speaker 1: think as in any market that's growing fast and striving
Speaker 1: on limitless innovation, it's it's very important to balance between
Speaker 1: fantastic joy Thank you so much for joining us. We
Speaker 1: really appreciated getting an update their Yuning I see CEO
Speaker 1: of El Toro. Home price gains set another record, fueled
Speaker 1: by bidding wars. Now for some of us, that's good news,
Speaker 1: for others not so much. Let's get the latest. We
Speaker 1: can do that with Sam Dunlop. He's a Chief Investment
Speaker 1: Officer of Public Strategies at angel O Capital Advisors about
Speaker 1: thirteen billion dollars in assets under management. Joining us on
Speaker 1: the phone from Atlanta, Sam, We're seeing these amazing surges
Speaker 1: in residential real estate. UM My question is is this
Speaker 1: a COVID fueled short term anomaly or is this something different?
Speaker 1: You know, it's definitely got some COVID um effects, clearly,
Speaker 1: but I think the real key, uh, you know, really
Speaker 1: going into the pandemic was that we were dealing with
Speaker 1: a pretty significant supply and demand mismatch of single family housing. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, prior to COVID, we were very optimistic on
Speaker 1: the housing market going into COVID. UH. Clearly COVID was
Speaker 1: a huge disruption, but coming out of COVID, UH, it
Speaker 1: really exacerbated the extraordinary supply to mean mismatch that we
Speaker 1: currently have. Just the the rise of the millennial as
Speaker 1: well as just the lack of investment in housing after
Speaker 1: the global financial crisis, you know, coupled with the pandemic
Speaker 1: and all time low mortgage rates just has home prices surging.
Speaker 1: I said, So, those are the two key issues then, Sam, right,
Speaker 1: the UM first one the idea that millennials weren't going
Speaker 1: to buy homes. As a result, I guess, uh, we
Speaker 1: weren't building as many as we should have. And the
Speaker 1: second is people weren't investing in homes as UM financial
Speaker 1: as a financial asset as well as a residential you
Speaker 1: know solution. And that changed during during the pandemic. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: just just not seeing enough units come online, you know,
Speaker 1: to keep pace with uh, the already extraordinary supply shortage.
Speaker 1: I mean, just to give you some context, the National
Speaker 1: Social Association of Realtors, you know, they recently put out
Speaker 1: the single family supply demand gap was approximately six million
Speaker 1: units currently and when you couple the millennials as they
Speaker 1: as they come online in the housing market, there's you know,
Speaker 1: expected to be an additional three million units that will
Speaker 1: need over the next five years potentially to meet that demand. So, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, when you had the housing market really at
Speaker 1: the center of the of the last global financial crisis,
Speaker 1: you just had a lack of construction and lack of
Speaker 1: investment to meet those uh, pretty extraordinary macro conditions. So
Speaker 1: this has been a long time coming, but COVID has
Speaker 1: certainly exaggerated the effects. Especially uh, you know that Powell
Speaker 1: has taken us not only to the zero bound, but
Speaker 1: you know, continues to buy agency mortgages and treasuries and earnest.
Speaker 1: So talk to us about the mortgage market here is
Speaker 1: I know, there's you know, back in two thousand eight
Speaker 1: with the financial crisis, you know, a lot of it
Speaker 1: was just very poor credit standards, which led to you know,
Speaker 1: people who were barring that probably should not have been barring,
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. Give us a sense
Speaker 1: of how you view the mortgage market here. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a great question, you know, we really look at and
Speaker 1: and and other market participants do as well. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: shameless plug form Bloomberg. There there's a mortgage credit availability
Speaker 1: index that the Mortgage Bankers Association puts out that that
Speaker 1: you view on your terminal there. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's the higher that score, the more available credit is.
Speaker 1: And if you look back to the preglobal financial crisis period,
Speaker 1: that index got as high as, uh the mid eight hundreds. Uh.
Speaker 1: And just to give you some context today, you know
Speaker 1: we're in the low one hundreds area. Uh. And you've
Speaker 1: just seen very little credit expansion uh in the post
Speaker 1: global financial crisis period, but you also saw a pretty
Speaker 1: significant amount of tightening uh and residential mortgage credit abilbility
Speaker 1: after the COVID crisis. So uh, that index got as
Speaker 1: high as one eighty pre COVID and now it's collapsed
Speaker 1: down to the one twenties today. So uh. You know,
Speaker 1: as far as looking at mortgages as an investment for
Speaker 1: for healthy credit quality, UH, it's certainly an area we've
Speaker 1: been focused on, just because you haven't seen credit credit
Speaker 1: standards really expand, especially from from some of the peak
Speaker 1: that we saw in the pre global financial crisis period,
Speaker 1: Is there any concern that we're looking at a bubble
Speaker 1: that could pop? You know? The good news is, I
Speaker 1: would say from a from a bubble perspective, and what
Speaker 1: we've been focused on is not only the credit standards
Speaker 1: that we talked about, but just the reduced amount of
Speaker 1: leverage UH and just the reduced amount of fraud in
Speaker 1: our view that that drove that bubble. And the pre
Speaker 1: global financial crisis period. You know, not only have mortgage
Speaker 1: credit standards tightened dramatically, but you've just seen a whole
Speaker 1: host of regulation and focus from the CFPB and the
Speaker 1: and the qualified mortgage rules and guidelines that has really
Speaker 1: improved the integrity of the of the origination process in
Speaker 1: the US. So it's not driven by a leverage per se,
Speaker 1: which is very important from a health perspective, and just
Speaker 1: looking at those fundamentals you're seeing it really driven by
Speaker 1: this supply and demand mismatch that we're seeing and again
Speaker 1: a very accommodative fed that we don't see going away
Speaker 1: anytime soon. Sam, thanks so much for joining us. Sam
Speaker 1: dunlap Is, Chief investment Officer of Public Strategies, angel Oak
Speaker 1: Capital Advisers. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews of Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller three and on Fall Sweeney
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio