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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Now, let's talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the markets and the economy with Katie Nixon.

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Speaker 1: She is chief investment officer at Northern Trust Wealth Management,

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Speaker 1: joining us out of Rye, New York. And let's get

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Speaker 1: first to UM your expectations for the number on Friday

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Speaker 1: and how it plays into what we heard from the

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Speaker 1: FED at Jackson Hole. Katie, Well, good morning and thanks

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Speaker 1: for having me. I mean, I guess would be right

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Speaker 1: around the consensus for the Friday number around seven fifty,

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a decline from UM from last month.

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Speaker 1: But I think the point is this data for the

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Speaker 1: next several weeks, I mean maybe months, is going to

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Speaker 1: just be really really noisy. As we're seeing UM some

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Speaker 1: of this UH this other data command a bit softer

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Speaker 1: than expected relative to UH pre delta expectations. So I

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Speaker 1: think we're going to be in this period of sort

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Speaker 1: of give and take with the with the macro data,

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Speaker 1: which I mean again for for investors. It's very consistent

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Speaker 1: with what we heard from the Fed on on Friday,

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Speaker 1: from Powell on Friday, that you know, he's keeping his

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Speaker 1: options open, all right. Well, I think investors need Katie

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Speaker 1: to keep their options open as well. I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: the tenure here, just stubbornly staying around this one point

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Speaker 1: three zero level, seemingly in a trading bound. Tough to

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Speaker 1: make a living down there at that kind of rate.

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Speaker 1: Where are you kind of as you talk to clients

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Speaker 1: here and you and your advisors at Northern Trust, where

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Speaker 1: are you telling them to go in terms of asset

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Speaker 1: allocation right here? Well, you know, I think this is

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Speaker 1: a very very important um discussion to have right now,

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Speaker 1: because there is this sort of feeling that we should

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Speaker 1: be out of bonds because rates are so low. Um.

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Speaker 1: But what we're telling our clients is, you know, fixed

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Speaker 1: income plays high quality fixed income plays a really important

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Speaker 1: role in your portfolio, even at these levels of yield,

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Speaker 1: these low levels of yield, which, by the way, we

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Speaker 1: expect you're going to stay low for probably even longer

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Speaker 1: than the market expects. So get used to these uh

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Speaker 1: these low yields are going to be with us for

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Speaker 1: a while. But the role of fixed and the portfolio

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Speaker 1: is to provide you that diversification. And what would seem

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Speaker 1: time and time again is during stressful times in the market,

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Speaker 1: risk assets all sort of performed the same UM. So

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Speaker 1: we want to make sure that our clients have the

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Speaker 1: right amount of fixed in. You don't want too much

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Speaker 1: because the yields are so low, but you want to

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Speaker 1: have uh an amount of fixed income that's going to

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Speaker 1: help you meet your your goals during times of market

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Speaker 1: stress and not force you to sell risk assets. But

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Speaker 1: beyond that, within our risk asset portfolio, I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: one area that we like right now. Obviously we like

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Speaker 1: US equities that's worth you know, we've seen very strong growth.

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Speaker 1: We continue to think we're gonna see from my to

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Speaker 1: me into two and perhaps even beyond from an earnings perspective.

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Speaker 1: UM the Feds on hold, so you know, the rate

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Speaker 1: environment's going to stay very constructive also for the next

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Speaker 1: several years. But we also like high yield and we're seeing,

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Speaker 1: you know, the credit worthiness of high yield credits improve

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Speaker 1: over this cycle, and we expect are going to continue

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Speaker 1: to improve and we can see spreads grinds even tighter

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Speaker 1: than they are right now. So US equities high yield,

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Speaker 1: that's sort of where we're leaning into from a tactical

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Speaker 1: perspective and our risk asset portfolio. What kind of taper

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Speaker 1: do you want to see? UM? What kind of taper

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Speaker 1: you know is helpful to your investors? Right? Well, we

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Speaker 1: are expecting the taper to be very slow and very delivered.

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Speaker 1: So six and nine months of tapering UM hopefully will

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Speaker 1: be sort of back to the future and watching pink

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Speaker 1: dry as I think Janet Allen said uh in the

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Speaker 1: previous taper. UM, So we don't think it's going to

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Speaker 1: be a meaningful event to the market. UM. We only

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Speaker 1: have one data point the last time we went through tapering,

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Speaker 1: and you know, after the taper tantrum, which is really

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Speaker 1: a communication issue, the market really absorbed the taper very

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Speaker 1: very well and then starts to focus on the next move,

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Speaker 1: which is when are we going to see rates increase

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Speaker 1: in For US, we may see a liftop in twenty three,

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Speaker 1: but if we do, it's going to be much slower

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Speaker 1: and much lower than the market thinks. So given that backdrop, Katie,

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Speaker 1: in terms of the equity side of the business, are

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Speaker 1: are you suggesting to your representatives and your clients that

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Speaker 1: they focus more on maybe the good strong top line

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Speaker 1: growth stories maybe in tech and healthcare or um maybe

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Speaker 1: go into that lean into that rotation trade which has

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Speaker 1: been working so well, which is more cyclical, uh sectors

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Speaker 1: maybe like you know, banks or or energy. Where where

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Speaker 1: are you on that discussion? Yeah, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: it's important to take a diversified approach. I think investors

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Speaker 1: have learned this year especially that having both is kind

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Speaker 1: of the way you want to go, because we've seen

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Speaker 1: this pivot between growth and you for example, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've had we had a value of performance

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Speaker 1: and now sort of hear a date, growth is edging

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Speaker 1: out value. They've both had very good absolute performance, but

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Speaker 1: we've seen sort of that pivot between growth and value

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Speaker 1: happen a lot of time. So we we advise our

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Speaker 1: clients to lean into both and not to have to

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Speaker 1: pick a side in this um in this race. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that we are looking at though a

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Speaker 1: lot right now, is helping the quality of our of

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Speaker 1: our equity investment. So really looking at a quality as

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Speaker 1: a factor and sort of adding that into the portfolios

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Speaker 1: as we as we can. Katie, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. Great to get your insight on what is

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Speaker 1: actually an exciting time, even though you know yields are

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Speaker 1: low and it may be UM difficult. Your job might

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Speaker 1: be more difficult than normally would be UM. Certainly from

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Speaker 1: a journalistic perspective, it is fascinating to follow, even if J.

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Speaker 1: Powell's intonation could be a little bit more exciting. Yes,

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Speaker 1: exactly when he's reading a speech, I just want to

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Speaker 1: go with him and just go through it once or twice,

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Speaker 1: a little coaching. But I mean I found, you know,

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Speaker 1: especially his defense of UM the inflation picture and their

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Speaker 1: inflation take, I thought was spot on, and I think

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Speaker 1: um Katie did too. She's got a great note that

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Speaker 1: you can check out on the Northern Trust website and

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Speaker 1: highly recommend going to wealth dot Northern Trust dot com

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Speaker 1: to check that out. Katie Nixon um joining us the

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Speaker 1: c i O of Northern Trust Wealth Management. This is Bloomberg. Now.

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Speaker 1: We told you at the top of the show about

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Speaker 1: thirty minutes ago that we saw the Consumer Board Consumer sorry,

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Speaker 1: the Conference Board Consumer Confidence index coming out at one

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Speaker 1: thirteen point eight. We were looking for a reading of

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Speaker 1: one three and the prior reading was one twenty nine.

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Speaker 1: So it looks a little bit soft here. Let's and

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Speaker 1: Lynn Franco, Director of Economic Indicators and Surveys from the

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Speaker 1: Conference Board. And Lynn, this actually makes sense considering the

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Speaker 1: other high frequency data we've seen. Is just is this

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Speaker 1: just an end of summer vacation thing, um, a little

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Speaker 1: bit of cloudy vision into the beginning of school year?

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Speaker 1: Why is this? I think what we're seeing here is

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Speaker 1: rising concerns about the delta variant and to a somewhat

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Speaker 1: lesser degree, consumers expressing some concern about rising gas and

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Speaker 1: food prices. Uh, so we've seen that not only take

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Speaker 1: a bite out of how they assess current economic conditions,

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Speaker 1: but also pass somewhat of a cloud over their short

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Speaker 1: term prospects. So it's virus and inflation, yes, And I

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Speaker 1: mean the good news within this is that the employment

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Speaker 1: indicators did not really decline substantially, so you know, we

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Speaker 1: do expect the economy and the job market to remain strong. Hopefully, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, can get a handle around this recent surge

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Speaker 1: and that will help sort of alleviate some of consumers concerns,

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Speaker 1: but it could pose a little bit of a you know,

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Speaker 1: headwind to UH spending, especially in person spending. So Lynn

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Speaker 1: talked to us on a FOP a little bit on

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Speaker 1: that on that labor issue there, because we still have

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of folks that are out of work,

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Speaker 1: but there's also a lot of openings out there and

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Speaker 1: a lot of companies are raising pay How does the

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Speaker 1: kind of the labor outlook factor in. I think the

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Speaker 1: labor outlook, especially what we're seeing in our report that

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Speaker 1: remained more favorable than the economic outlook, which I think

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Speaker 1: is good news, you know, to help support spending. We

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Speaker 1: do know that at least in terms of claims and

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Speaker 1: other labor data, you know, we're sort of getting back

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Speaker 1: to more favorable readings. So we hope that will help

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Speaker 1: boost confidence in the coming months. And in fact, if

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Speaker 1: we take a look at their spending intentions, um, you

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Speaker 1: know here too, we saw a little bit of going

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Speaker 1: off endurables and autos and home purchase intentions UH, and

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Speaker 1: a shift more towards in person. We saw a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a pickup and travel intentions UM. So that

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Speaker 1: I think was a sort of good news, there is

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Speaker 1: at least some willingness to continue to spend. You know,

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Speaker 1: we all um watch LYNN and markets very closely. The

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Speaker 1: non farm payrolls number. It's been referred to as the

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Speaker 1: Granddaddy of economic indicators. Does the consumer care about this

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Speaker 1: kind of data? Well, I think, you know, obviously they do.

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Speaker 1: It impacts them. It supports consumer confidence. And we've only

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Speaker 1: had a slight uptick in the percent of consumers who

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Speaker 1: were telling us jobs are hard to get right, So

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Speaker 1: I think that's somewhat favorable news and their outlook. Even

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Speaker 1: though we saw a little bit of a decline in

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Speaker 1: their outlook regarding where the labor markets headed, it still

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Speaker 1: remains very positive overall. So it could be that this

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Speaker 1: is sort of more delta driven than jobs driven and

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Speaker 1: LYNN work. Some of the sub elemental unemployment benefits are

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Speaker 1: set to expire in early September. How do you think

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Speaker 1: that's going to be reflected in the data. I think

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing here is we saw a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a decline in the percent of consumers have said

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Speaker 1: they expect their incomes to increase over the coming months.

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Speaker 1: But we know right now from not only this survey,

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Speaker 1: but other surveys UM that you know, most people are

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Speaker 1: sort of stashing away the extra money. We saw an

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Speaker 1: uptick in the savings rate, so at least consumers are

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Speaker 1: somewhat willing and able to spend. I think just what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing here is a little concern about the delta

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Speaker 1: variant and that could likely impact in person services over

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Speaker 1: the coming months. Is the vaccine rate at all playing

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Speaker 1: into this, the fact that you know, certainly from our

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Speaker 1: perspective here in Europe, Americans just aren't getting vaccinated as

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Speaker 1: fast as we thought they would or as fast as

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Speaker 1: we are. Well, I think if we see an uptick

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Speaker 1: in vaccination rates which have that may help offset some

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Speaker 1: of the concerns about UM, you know, the increase in

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Speaker 1: the spread of the delta variant, So that would be

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Speaker 1: one way to sort of counter the concern. Heylyn, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Lin Franco,

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Speaker 1: director of Economic Indicators and Surveys at the conference board.

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Speaker 1: I want to bring in Joni right now. He's the

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Speaker 1: CEO of e Toro joining us on the phone out

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Speaker 1: of Israel, and I am very familiar with the TORO.

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Speaker 1: I worked with a number of your analysts had them

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Speaker 1: on various programs. You so, I get it. But you

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Speaker 1: say you're the world's leading social investment network. That's the tagline.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean? Hi, and thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually here in New York. Um uh so very

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Speaker 1: quickly is the largest social investment network. We have twenty

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Speaker 1: two million registered users, mostly outside of the US, who

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Speaker 1: registered to our social network where our users can trade

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Speaker 1: from and free stock trading as well as cryptocurrencies within

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Speaker 1: a social network, So everybody can actually see the most

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Speaker 1: successful investors performance over time UH, their monthly UH performance

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Speaker 1: as well as their actual portfolio location and communicate and

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Speaker 1: collaborate with one another, and then use our patent technology

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Speaker 1: to automatically copy the most successful investors. So if you

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Speaker 1: see an investor which generated thirty percent returns every year

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Speaker 1: for the past five years on average, you just click

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Speaker 1: copy with let's say five thousand dollars in it copies

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Speaker 1: his entire portfolio into your portfolio for that five thousand dollars,

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Speaker 1: and every time he trades, it trades in your account

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Speaker 1: at the same time, the same price and the same proportion.

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Speaker 1: So he basically brought in the sharing economy into the

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Speaker 1: world of trading and investing. So as you think about

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Speaker 1: your customer base, JUNI, I mean obviously a big, big

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Speaker 1: increase uh since the pandemic. How permanent is that, how

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Speaker 1: sticky is that? How do you think about the growth

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Speaker 1: of the folks that you know would be interested in

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Speaker 1: your platform? First, First of all, we definitely have seen

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Speaker 1: explosive growth over the past eighteen months since that I

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Speaker 1: would generally say an inflection point that started the rise

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Speaker 1: of millennial investors all over the world. In March, we

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Speaker 1: just recently announced our Q two earnings this year. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and we grew from Q two last year to Q

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Speaker 1: two this year between a hundred and twenty and a

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Speaker 1: hundred forty percent on various KPIs from registered users, where

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Speaker 1: we added more than two and a half million registered

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Speaker 1: users just this quarter in Q two. I think we

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Speaker 1: are seeing again a very significant secular trend where there's

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Speaker 1: a whole generation people who didn't participate in capital markets before,

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Speaker 1: both in the US but also all around the world

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Speaker 1: in your up in a Asia, who are simply asking

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Speaker 1: what to do with our money, where to invest our money? Uh?

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Speaker 1: And maybe it starts with a bigger question, which is

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Speaker 1: a very big discussion right now all over the world

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Speaker 1: what is the value of my money, which again comes

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Speaker 1: from a confluence of circumstances of zero interest rates, a

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Speaker 1: very big discussion about inflation, UH, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: governments all around the world are printing money and at

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Speaker 1: unprecedented rates are leading a whole generation to ask, what

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Speaker 1: is the value of my dollars or euros or pounds

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Speaker 1: and where can I invest my money so it will

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Speaker 1: grow over time. I'm not sure if you saw the

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Speaker 1: John Paulson interview UM with David Rubinstein we had on

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Speaker 1: the area yesterday, but essentially the investor so famous for

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Speaker 1: his big short during the crash of the housing market,

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Speaker 1: said he doesn't recommend buying crypto at all. He thinks

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Speaker 1: it's just worthless UM asset that is speculated on because

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Speaker 1: of you know, I think what was the line, paul

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Speaker 1: limited availability, limited supply of nothing. UM. Do you think

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Speaker 1: it matters to UM young investors today? What the hedge

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Speaker 1: fund titans of yesteryear think about crypto? I think not

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Speaker 1: everybody has to love every asset in order for that

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Speaker 1: asset to be successful over time. Not everybody loves Facebook.

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Speaker 1: But Facebook is a successful company and a lot of

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Speaker 1: investors in a Facebook stock have a scene appreciation over time.

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Speaker 1: I can definitely say the same about Tesla stock and

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Speaker 1: Amazon stock, who have had a lot of uh negative

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Speaker 1: sort of people talk about it in sort of in

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Speaker 1: past years, right when when Amazon in the only two

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Speaker 1: thousands in Tesla just three, four or five years ago.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, every investor has his own right

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Speaker 1: to analyze and to evaluate different markets. There's no doubt

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Speaker 1: that the crypto markets one are super interesting and second

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Speaker 1: are a sort of a generational asset class. The majority

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Speaker 1: of investors any toro are under forty uh and uh.

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Speaker 1: The majority of investors a toro hold both equities, so

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Speaker 1: both stock markets as well as crypto assets. So I

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Speaker 1: would generally say it's great when we have super smart

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Speaker 1: people like Elon Musk, Casey wood and and and Jack

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Speaker 1: Dorsey talk about crypto and and believe in in bitcoin

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Speaker 1: and support it. But you don't need necessarily every investor

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Speaker 1: in the world to believe in bitcoin in order for

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Speaker 1: it to be successful over time. So generally you should

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Speaker 1: always expect some people naysayers, otherwise the price would already moon.

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Speaker 1: So you only I guess probably one of the next

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Speaker 1: steps that a lot of people are are looking at

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Speaker 1: in terms of the development of the crypto market. Writ

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Speaker 1: large is some type of regulation. UH. What is your

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Speaker 1: view of regulating the crypto market? How do you think

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Speaker 1: it should play out? UM? What are your thoughts there?

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Speaker 1: So we've we've founded ed Toro before crypto was out there,

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Speaker 1: and we are a regulated financial institution. Were regulated in Europe,

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Speaker 1: in the UK and Australia here in the US as

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Speaker 1: well as expanding our our regulatory licenses both in Asia

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Speaker 1: and the Middle East. So there's no doubt that when

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Speaker 1: you think about consumers, when you think about retail investors, U,

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Speaker 1: regulators are there to protect customers interest. That is the

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Speaker 1: role and that is why a significant part of retail

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Speaker 1: investors will eventually work with regulated financial institutions. I think

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Speaker 1: regulators are definitely catching up. They see a lot of

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Speaker 1: the benefits of blockchain technology UH and its value actually

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Speaker 1: to eventually provide both innovation and protection to customers interests UH.

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Speaker 1: And I think what we're seeing now, as we see

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Speaker 1: in any innovation in any market that's regulated, regulators are

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Speaker 1: learning and are putting in the rules in place to

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Speaker 1: be able from one hand, to promote innovation and to

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Speaker 1: to enable efficient markets and the growth of those markets,

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Speaker 1: and in the same time protect customer interests. And we

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Speaker 1: see that with with regulators all around the world. I

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Speaker 1: think as in any market that's growing fast and striving

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Speaker 1: on limitless innovation, it's it's very important to balance between

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Speaker 1: fantastic joy Thank you so much for joining us. We

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Speaker 1: really appreciated getting an update their Yuning I see CEO

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Speaker 1: of El Toro. Home price gains set another record, fueled

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Speaker 1: by bidding wars. Now for some of us, that's good news,

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Speaker 1: for others not so much. Let's get the latest. We

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Speaker 1: can do that with Sam Dunlop. He's a Chief Investment

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Speaker 1: Officer of Public Strategies at angel O Capital Advisors about

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Speaker 1: thirteen billion dollars in assets under management. Joining us on

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Speaker 1: the phone from Atlanta, Sam, We're seeing these amazing surges

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Speaker 1: in residential real estate. UM My question is is this

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Speaker 1: a COVID fueled short term anomaly or is this something different?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's definitely got some COVID um effects, clearly,

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Speaker 1: but I think the real key, uh, you know, really

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Speaker 1: going into the pandemic was that we were dealing with

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Speaker 1: a pretty significant supply and demand mismatch of single family housing. UM.

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Speaker 1: You know, prior to COVID, we were very optimistic on

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Speaker 1: the housing market going into COVID. UH. Clearly COVID was

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Speaker 1: a huge disruption, but coming out of COVID, UH, it

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Speaker 1: really exacerbated the extraordinary supply to mean mismatch that we

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Speaker 1: currently have. Just the the rise of the millennial as

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Speaker 1: well as just the lack of investment in housing after

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Speaker 1: the global financial crisis, you know, coupled with the pandemic

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Speaker 1: and all time low mortgage rates just has home prices surging.

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Speaker 1: I said, So, those are the two key issues then, Sam, right,

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Speaker 1: the UM first one the idea that millennials weren't going

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Speaker 1: to buy homes. As a result, I guess, uh, we

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Speaker 1: weren't building as many as we should have. And the

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Speaker 1: second is people weren't investing in homes as UM financial

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Speaker 1: as a financial asset as well as a residential you

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Speaker 1: know solution. And that changed during during the pandemic. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: just just not seeing enough units come online, you know,

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Speaker 1: to keep pace with uh, the already extraordinary supply shortage.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just to give you some context, the National

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Speaker 1: Social Association of Realtors, you know, they recently put out

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Speaker 1: the single family supply demand gap was approximately six million

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Speaker 1: units currently and when you couple the millennials as they

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Speaker 1: as they come online in the housing market, there's you know,

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Speaker 1: expected to be an additional three million units that will

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Speaker 1: need over the next five years potentially to meet that demand. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you had the housing market really at

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Speaker 1: the center of the of the last global financial crisis,

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Speaker 1: you just had a lack of construction and lack of

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Speaker 1: investment to meet those uh, pretty extraordinary macro conditions. So

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Speaker 1: this has been a long time coming, but COVID has

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Speaker 1: certainly exaggerated the effects. Especially uh, you know that Powell

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Speaker 1: has taken us not only to the zero bound, but

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Speaker 1: you know, continues to buy agency mortgages and treasuries and earnest.

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Speaker 1: So talk to us about the mortgage market here is

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Speaker 1: I know, there's you know, back in two thousand eight

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Speaker 1: with the financial crisis, you know, a lot of it

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Speaker 1: was just very poor credit standards, which led to you know,

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Speaker 1: people who were barring that probably should not have been barring,

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Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. Give us a sense

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Speaker 1: of how you view the mortgage market here. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a great question, you know, we really look at and

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Speaker 1: and and other market participants do as well. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: shameless plug form Bloomberg. There there's a mortgage credit availability

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Speaker 1: index that the Mortgage Bankers Association puts out that that

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Speaker 1: you view on your terminal there. But uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's the higher that score, the more available credit is.

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Speaker 1: And if you look back to the preglobal financial crisis period,

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Speaker 1: that index got as high as, uh the mid eight hundreds. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And just to give you some context today, you know

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Speaker 1: we're in the low one hundreds area. Uh. And you've

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Speaker 1: just seen very little credit expansion uh in the post

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Speaker 1: global financial crisis period, but you also saw a pretty

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Speaker 1: significant amount of tightening uh and residential mortgage credit abilbility

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Speaker 1: after the COVID crisis. So uh, that index got as

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Speaker 1: high as one eighty pre COVID and now it's collapsed

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Speaker 1: down to the one twenties today. So uh. You know,

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Speaker 1: as far as looking at mortgages as an investment for

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Speaker 1: for healthy credit quality, UH, it's certainly an area we've

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Speaker 1: been focused on, just because you haven't seen credit credit

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Speaker 1: standards really expand, especially from from some of the peak

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Speaker 1: that we saw in the pre global financial crisis period,

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Speaker 1: Is there any concern that we're looking at a bubble

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Speaker 1: that could pop? You know? The good news is, I

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Speaker 1: would say from a from a bubble perspective, and what

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Speaker 1: we've been focused on is not only the credit standards

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Speaker 1: that we talked about, but just the reduced amount of

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Speaker 1: leverage UH and just the reduced amount of fraud in

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Speaker 1: our view that that drove that bubble. And the pre

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Speaker 1: global financial crisis period. You know, not only have mortgage

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Speaker 1: credit standards tightened dramatically, but you've just seen a whole

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Speaker 1: host of regulation and focus from the CFPB and the

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Speaker 1: and the qualified mortgage rules and guidelines that has really

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Speaker 1: improved the integrity of the of the origination process in

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Speaker 1: the US. So it's not driven by a leverage per se,

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Speaker 1: which is very important from a health perspective, and just

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Speaker 1: looking at those fundamentals you're seeing it really driven by

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Speaker 1: this supply and demand mismatch that we're seeing and again

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Speaker 1: a very accommodative fed that we don't see going away

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Speaker 1: anytime soon. Sam, thanks so much for joining us. Sam

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Speaker 1: dunlap Is, Chief investment Officer of Public Strategies, angel Oak

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Speaker 1: Capital Advisers. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews of Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller three and on Fall Sweeney

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Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you

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Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio