1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Content warning. This podcast discusses violence, murder, suicide, civil unrest, 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: aggressive policing, racism, and lynching. If you or anyone you 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: know is considering suicide or self harm, or just need 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: to talk about problems, please call the National Suicide Prevention 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: Lifeline to seven three or text the crisis text line 6 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: at one. Previously and after the uprising, if this happens 7 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: to your child, wouldn't you want to get down to 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: the bottom of this and find out what really happened. 9 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: So I think you really wanted to love from it, mom, 10 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: but it was just kind of hard. Sometimes he did 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: hit horror. He he live horr. Phones that have a 12 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: qual Colm chip set usually give me an option to 13 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: bypass the pass code, but I never have luck with them, 14 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: and not to hope on it. I just wanna trying 15 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: to hang. You want to fight, You're gonna end know 16 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: with some type of skulls a boost somewhere. Man. Nothing. 17 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: I mean, this is speculation, but do you think Dane 18 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: would do something so far as like try to arrange 19 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: to get Marcel hurt? Would do it himself. We went 20 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: into his YouTube searches and then there's a search for 21 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: a very specific phrase which is how to tie the 22 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: hangman's noose with a blanket. What you're looking at is 23 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: the aftermath of the grand jury deciding not to indict 24 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: Officer Wilson. A young man found hanging from a tree 25 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: in October. His mom believes someone murdered her son, targeting him. 26 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: Don Ye became an activist in the wake of the 27 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: shooting death of Michael Brown by a white police officer. 28 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: That's why Melissa mckinne's wont St. Louis County police to 29 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: dig deeper to her son's death. He was not suicidal. 30 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: This is after the uprising, the death of Donye Dion Jones. 31 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 1: If I really start like that's for my son I 32 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: wanted to do, I'm at let it go because I 33 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: could start, I could move more. I can't start breathing, 34 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: you know. And my my children are told you if 35 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: our time. But we are here the whole phulicide thing. 36 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: You we're not. I'm not judging anybody, but we've always 37 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: been against shulicide. You know, because I am a friend 38 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: who committed suicide. We saw and talked about it, and 39 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: I knee all I ner angel and all the things. 40 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: You ain't gonna worry about me going out felway, he said, 41 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: And I don't really want people to look at him. 42 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: You know, it's being just men. But he said, you 43 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: know that's a week. That's a week is hell, leaving 44 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: people behind you. You give up and you heal yourself 45 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: and you're want to help. You know, That's how we 46 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: look that suicide. But if honestly, if that's what my 47 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: baby I wanted and somehow he wasn't getting peace, or 48 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: if I felt like he was depressed and he was 49 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: just really he just couldn't make it me, you know, 50 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: something huge has to I would understand that and I 51 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: would be like, you know what, that's what you wanted 52 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: to God, the lesson or you know what, spare his soul, 53 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: you know, but I would be able to move on. 54 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: I will start my leaving property. That's not it. I'm 55 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: a hunger. I'm I'm talking to are positive I anyone 56 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: in New archeginny of it? Now? We have to fight 57 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: for one. That was a clip from our very first 58 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: long phone chat with Melissa, back when she still used 59 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: the burner phone we sent her to talk to us. 60 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: She was insistent at the time that if she believed 61 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: Donia had died by suicide, she could begin to grieve 62 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 1: and eventually move on with her life. She would express 63 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,559 Speaker 1: the sentiment to us many times over the next two years, 64 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: and we tried to always make good on our original 65 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: commitment to give her the benefit of the doubt and 66 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: accepting the possibility that Dana was the victim of a homicide. 67 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: And insofar as this podcast is concerned, we have spent 68 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: now eight episodes doing just that. But in this episode, 69 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: we would like to take a beat to look at suicide, 70 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: particularly as it pertains to Black Americans. If I could 71 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: just start by, just have when you state your name 72 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: and your profession, UM Sherry Davis Molock. It's like three words, 73 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: no hyphen. I'm in the Department of Psychological and Brain 74 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: Sciences at George Washington University. I'm an associate professor there. 75 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: Professor Molock has written extensively about suicide amongst young black people. 76 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: One of her papers that we read talked about stigmas 77 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: surrounding suicide. For many, many, many many years, no one 78 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: was really doing research on black suicides, and in part 79 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: because of the myth that black people don't complete suicide. Said, 80 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: the other problem is that up until the nineteen eighties, 81 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: most of the national data, the organizations that collect data nationally, 82 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 1: we're not delineated or categorized by race. So when people 83 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: say black people never did this, I'm like, we don't 84 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: actually know that, because at that time the data was 85 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: not really clearly delineated by race. It was usually whites 86 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: and non whites were grouped together. So what groups under 87 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: non whites with doing or not doing in terms of 88 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: suicide race, It was hard to make a difference with 89 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: that figure that out. And I think that unfortunately, because 90 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: there's a long history in this country of black people, 91 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: particularly black men, being lynched, that it's understandable that if 92 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: someone finds a loved one to be in the public 93 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: space and their hunt and they're hanging, that the immediate 94 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: conclusion that many families might draws that their their loved 95 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: one has been lynched, as opposed to that they may 96 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: have taken their their own life. And again sometimes it's 97 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: it's hard to clearly delineate whether or not as hanging 98 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: as an accident or lynching, And for medical examiners it's 99 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: hard sometimes to make those differentiations. Depends on the evidences there. 100 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,239 Speaker 1: But having said that, if you are from a cultural 101 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: group that you believe does not complete suicide, or you 102 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: believe that it's something that white people do and black 103 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: people don't do. Then when you have these kinds of 104 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: unfortunate events, it's easier to not believe that it's a suicide. 105 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: It's also just hard and challenging because I think as 106 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: a parent, I know that no one wants to believe 107 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: that their child took his or her own life, because 108 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: as parents, we feel responsible for our children. We feel 109 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: like we should be able to help them, and that 110 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: we should should have known this was coming. Sometimes there 111 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: are no clear cut warning signs like what would be 112 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: some of those signs means, I think people have this 113 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: idea that you know, someone's going to take their own life, 114 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: that leading up to that, there's like a huge personality switch, 115 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: or you know, we hear things like, oh, they started 116 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: giving away their possessions, or you know, like we I 117 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: think some people do that, but some people have more 118 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: subtle changes in their behavior. Sometimes people have been struggling 119 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: with depressive symptoms for a while, which could be you know, 120 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: sad mood for several weeks on end, filling with logic, 121 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: not interested in interacting with friends, and family members in 122 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: the same way, that is to not engaging in activity, 123 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: said they used to find pleasurable and sometimes you and 124 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: I don't know how yet all this person was, but 125 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: the younger people, particularly teenager, you may seem more agitation 126 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: and more acting out. As far as Danyae is concerned, 127 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: nothing anyone ever said to us about his behavior sounded 128 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: like he was acting out or angry. But there was 129 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: definitely concerned amongst his family members about how in his 130 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: last two weeks of life he stopped wanting to go anywhere. 131 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: Everyone who lived in the house said that he was 132 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 1: spending a lot of time in the basement. The basement 133 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: was where he was sleeping on a couch and there 134 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,719 Speaker 1: was a TV down there too. It's where Donya and 135 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: Derek watched that Boston Celtics game on Danya's last day alive, 136 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: So it's not like the basement was a dungeon or anything. 137 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 1: And everyone said that when they went down there they 138 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: would find him studying real estate materials. Was this self isolation? 139 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: A warning sign? Was Dania removing himself from family activity 140 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: because he was depressed. And if he was depressed, why 141 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: not tell somebody or at least leave a suicide note. 142 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: I think another method is that people you know, they're saying, well, 143 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: there's no note, but most people who complete suicide don't 144 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: leave a note. Suicides and younger people can also be 145 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: more impulsive, and that might be one reason why you 146 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: don't have as many notes there. So in younger people, 147 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: they're less like than have a really well thought out plan. 148 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: And for young men in particular, hanging and from firearms 149 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 1: are the two top methods of choices for completing suicide. 150 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: And those two methods firearms and hangings are very, very 151 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: highly lethal. You know, there's a common statement that you know, 152 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: black people don't hang themselves, or particularly black people don't 153 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: hang themselves from trees. So what are the rates of 154 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: taking one's life through hanging by black men? So normally 155 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: the data is not disaggregated to that degree. So if 156 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,599 Speaker 1: they're when they do the data from the men Clexamus 157 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: at the corner's offices, they're gonna do cause of death 158 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: and for hanging is gonna be asphyxiation. That's the cause. 159 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: It's not gonna delineate down to what's the person hanging 160 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: from a tree, person's hanging in their room. I mean 161 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: there is some truth to the fact that most people 162 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 1: when they're when they take their lives, do it in 163 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: ways that are easily accessible. So, for example, it's easier 164 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: to hang oneself in one's house, for example, in one's 165 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: closet or even from a beam in the house, is 166 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: because it's easier to get to. Does that make sense 167 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: to youse what I'm saying, But it doesn't mean that 168 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: does not necessarily mean that people don't hang themselves from trees, 169 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: because sometimes they do. Is there anything around hanging that 170 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: we can say we kind of know regarding like whether 171 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: it's a first choice, what drives want to pick that 172 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: as the method? So the first choice for both men 173 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: and women young men and women inspire is because it's 174 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: more likely to to resolve in a death. The most 175 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: lethal method is virearms. The second most lethal method is hanging. 176 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: So what what when people choose one versus the other? 177 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: Has all to do with access. If a person doesn't 178 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: have a firearm easily accessible in their home, then they 179 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: might consider hanging because you can do it in your home, 180 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: you can do it anywhere. So basically it's what people 181 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: have sort of around them, right, it's accessible. Danyae did 182 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: not own a gun at the time of his death. 183 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: He had previously, but supposedly the gun was stolen back 184 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: when he lived with Deja. Professor Molak said that people 185 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: typically use what they have at their disposal that they 186 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: think will be the most fatal. In episode seven, Melissa 187 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: said that there was a rope in their garage and 188 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: the house also had extension cords and belts. If Dane 189 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: did want to die by suicide and had no access 190 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: to a gun and thus decided that hanging would be 191 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: the best method, it is still hard for us to 192 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: understand why he would choose to use a fitted bedsheet 193 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: for the ligature in prison, where inmates don't have access 194 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: to much A bed sheets an understandable choice, but when 195 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: a rope is readily available, and then there's the huge 196 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: elephant in the room. Danya knows his mother has spent 197 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: the last four years fighting for the dignity of black lives, 198 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 1: Why then, would he choose a method of suicide that 199 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: so closely resembles a racist lynching. People are behaving as 200 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: if people are are really being logical and that this 201 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: the the completion or the death is clearly thought through. 202 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: That's not always the case at all. So a young 203 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: person could also say, I know if I go to 204 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: this tree, you know this will end up in a fatality. 205 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: They might not be making the connection with lynching. You 206 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: see what I'm saying, because in the in that moment there, 207 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: we're behaving like they're thinking, logical, I won't do that 208 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,599 Speaker 1: because this is where my parents are lynching. They're not 209 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: thinking that either. They're just thinking that which way do 210 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: I think I can do this where the likelihood that 211 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: I will die will be higher? And the stronger that 212 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: young person's intent is, And by intent I mean that 213 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: they really really want to die. I they really want 214 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: this to be a fatality, the more likely they are 215 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: to pick a more lethal method. Have you seen over 216 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: the course of your research anything in recent history that 217 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: you thought was I guess suspicious in so far is 218 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: the hanging of the apparent suicide by hanging of a 219 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: young black man. I think that black people in general 220 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: are suspicious of that because of the history of lynching 221 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: in this country. That's why I'm saying I definitely understand 222 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 1: why the parents would jump to that conclusion because of 223 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: the history of lynching in the United States. That's that's 224 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: a logical conclusion to reach. It's not far fetched. It's 225 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: just what I'm saying. It's not necessarily denial because given 226 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: the lench, the history of lynching in this country, is 227 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: it far fetched that their child could die from a 228 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: lynching and someone described to this is suicide. No, it's not. 229 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: And so I think that's one of the things is 230 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: frustrating as a clinician, as a mom, and as a researcher, 231 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: is that it were so easy to dismiss people's concerns 232 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: without considering Black people have a different context than white 233 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 1: people do. Right, White people don't have a long history 234 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: of lynching in the country. So so no, that's not 235 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: the conclusion they would jump to. But if you're from 236 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: a minority group where the legacy of lynching still lives 237 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: on even today in the twenty one century, is it 238 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: illogical or denial to jump to or to to wonder 239 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: about is this possibly a lynching? No, it's not. Um. 240 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: I kind of want to stick on this because this 241 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: is really the crux of our whole show, and uh, 242 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: you know about being taken seriously, and you know, in 243 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: each death being taken seriously and being properly investigated. So 244 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: I guess I would ask what would you expect from 245 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: local police and medical examiners? And there is an event 246 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: in which a black person has found hanging out doors, 247 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: and you know, can I say it's most likely be 248 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: a suicide than a lynching? I think statistically yes, because 249 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: statistically there are more suicides than there are lynchings as 250 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: far as I know. But do I what I want 251 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:24,359 Speaker 1: the police department and the medical examiners to really carefully 252 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: view the scene of the the incident. Yes, because I 253 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: don't want to. I don't also don't want people to 254 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:36,359 Speaker 1: assume that because the person is hanging, that the automatic 255 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: conclusion is it's a suicide, because in the black community 256 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: that may not be true. And I also don't think 257 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: it's fair to dismiss it as the families in denial 258 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: or they can't deal with the reality what's going on, 259 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: because lynching is a reality for black people, it's not. 260 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: It's not something to be dismissed. Is it difficult to 261 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: make these judgment calls depending on the method and what's 262 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: the scene looks like at the at the place of death, 263 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: point of death. Yes, And I'm acknowledging that it is difficult. 264 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: It's not it's not always clear cut, that's true. The 265 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: thing about someone who dies by suicide is that after 266 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: the fact, the details of their final behaviors can often 267 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: point in any direction we want them to, and anything 268 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: they did that seems highly irrational is easily hand waved away, 269 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: because suicide itself is not a rational act. Was Danye's 270 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: self sequestering in the basement a warning sign of intense 271 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: depression or was he just focused on his work trying 272 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: to understand the world of real estate? Would the black 273 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: son of a prominent Ferguson activist really hang himself in 274 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: his mother's backyard and a fashion that is reminiscent of 275 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: a lynching without even leaving a note? Or is depression 276 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: so all consuming that a state of tunnel vision prevents 277 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: these questions from even entering a suicidal person's mind. It's 278 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: very easy to decide first what you believe happened, and 279 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: then to tell your perspect dive around the facts in 280 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: order to paint a bulls eye around that conclusion. What 281 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: would you like to do together? What do you think 282 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: you connected over? We like going to Saint Charles, the St. 283 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: Charles Park That U was a getaway spot for us. 284 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: We just went to the park, you know, stand by 285 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: the river and talk. He was going drives. We liked 286 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,479 Speaker 1: the food. We did that a lot of We had 287 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: a lot of food. This is Danye's best friend, Damon Moore, 288 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: the one who was shot four times allegedly by Marcel. 289 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: He helped us understand who Dane was by telling us 290 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: the kinds of things they used to do together. My 291 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: relationship with Javan was more, you know, it was close, 292 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: but we kicked it. We had more party times, you know, 293 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: went out, you know, had parties, had fun me and 294 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: now your relationship was. He influenced me in positive ways. 295 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: I learned from older brothers, myth tour, you know what 296 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: I'm saying. And he looked out for me, you know, 297 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: my right hand man. You know, we talked about more 298 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: express more ideas and thoughts and exploring life and ship gold. 299 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: So I really it was much closer. I was much 300 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: closer to you know. How would you like describe him? 301 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: I would describe protective for people. He cared about you protected, 302 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: you know, he went all out in my junior temper 303 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: sent from He was a kind of person once you 304 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: got to know a current person, but he was very 305 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 1: you know, quiet to himself, you know, very discreet with 306 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: his actions. You know, you have to be a very 307 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: close person for him to uh let you in. But 308 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: when he did express yourself, he was a very vocal individual. 309 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: You know. He always had like this positive but very 310 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, mellow energy about him. Know, he had that 311 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: type of orla. It was always positive. This description of 312 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: Donya is generally mellow and quiet yet positive. Was pretty 313 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: much how everyone described him to us. But we figured 314 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: that Damon, as Danyae's best friend, might have deeper insight 315 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: into Danya's psychological and emotional health. I mean, was he 316 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: a little like bipolar, Like he could be really up 317 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: and really down? Was he you know depressed? You know, 318 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: not about polar uh you know, I mean people usually 319 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: go through ups and downs. I mean he had a 320 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: few things they did bother him that we talked about 321 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: and discussed. You know, he had a few things that 322 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: he was very edinant about and optimistic about as well. 323 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: You know, he really just depended on the day and 324 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 1: the occasion, what's going on and his life at that time. 325 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: He kept a lot of information in I mean I 326 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: got a lot from him, but sometimes I had the 327 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: prime information out of him, check up on him. He 328 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: could check up on me, you know, if he was 329 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: going through something, he could come by the house. We 330 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: could sit over probably you know, a couple of hen 331 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 1: seeing something to just top it up. We asked if 332 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,959 Speaker 1: Damon noticed a change in Donyee, if he too perceived 333 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: done as paranoid and his last weeks alive. There's a 334 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: perception that he was paranoid in his final weeks. Do 335 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: you have any idea why? You know, he wasn't curt, 336 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: he wasn't certinal, He was stressed out. I mean, he 337 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: always naturally watched it is back. Oh, he was always vigilant, 338 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: always paid attention, cautious. That was just one of his traits. 339 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: But it felt like up to like in the last 340 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: few days or whatever, I know we had from talking 341 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 1: you from from what I perceived, you know, from me 342 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: talking to people, you know, he was he was stressed. 343 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: But I didn't get I didn't think that it was 344 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: deep as I mean, it ran across my mind. And 345 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: then after everything that transpired, I thought about the complation 346 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: we had everything like that, you know, I know it 347 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: was a lot on his mind with them and with 348 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: the you know, property and with his living situation, his 349 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: car he had told me about you know, he was 350 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: said about the scorepion and broke it down. So he 351 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: felt like it was a bottling his play a lot 352 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: on his shoulder at the time, and he was staying 353 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: He was telling me like he was staying strong, you know, 354 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: keeping his head of how hopes. But it was you know, 355 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: bothering him. I mean from I getting from it. You 356 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: know I heard a homicide part. Know I feel it, 357 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: But in my honest opinions at the re evaluating everything, 358 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: I think it was was on a suicidal part. Of 359 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: all the people we spoke with who were close with Dona, 360 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: Damon was the first one who said that he believed 361 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: it was likely that Donye died by suicide. Being Donya's 362 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: best friend of many years, Damon's opinion holds a lot 363 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: of weight. I know what conversation we've had, I know 364 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: how close we were. I know thread things that he 365 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: disclosed to me. You know that he was, you know, 366 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: possibly going through it and bothered him. You know when 367 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: I last conversation, was a lot of things on his mind. 368 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: That's why you know, so I mean it was very likely. 369 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: So are you kind of saying, like, in the moment, 370 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: you didn't think of him as depressed, but but like 371 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: looking back and kind of adding it all up, you 372 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: felt like maybe he was. In the moment, I'm not 373 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: gonna I didn't feel that. In the moment, I knew 374 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: that he was stressed. I knew that he was, you know, 375 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: it was bothering. I don't know, I don't know what 376 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: other words, you know, a less stronger word, just depressed. 377 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: I didn't think it was as serious. I didn't think 378 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: it was as far as you know, I'm feeling itself. 379 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: I know he cared about Miss Melissa a lot. You know, 380 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: he had a lot of he he loved his mother Derby. 381 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: I remember the first time I've seen him cry. She 382 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: had a gathering down in South City and when she 383 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 1: had up, gave her a speech and you know, exposed 384 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, the severity, so uh condition, you know, he 385 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: was really upset. He walked outside, I walked out, he 386 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: went to his walked when he was, you know, shedding truth. 387 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: But he was a very strong person, so it's a 388 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: lot for him to actually cry, you know what I'm saying. 389 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: So that was also like he was concerned about his 390 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: mother's health. And stress, I know in his recent times, 391 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: because like he was burdened, you know, in his age, 392 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: and he feel like he was, you know, he wasn't 393 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 1: doing enough. After Damon told us that Dane felt like 394 00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: he was a burden to his mother, which is something 395 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: we had not heard before him, and also told us 396 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: that his girlfriend Claire had spoken to Donia about depression 397 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: and he arranged for all of us to meet so 398 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: she could tell us what she knew. He did say 399 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: he was depressed because he felt like it wasn't going nowhere. 400 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: Do you remember when roughly that was becauld you play 401 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: some everything you wasn't close to everything we talked about 402 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: this outside of the crazy stuff, but everything that we 403 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: talked about, well he well, honestly we used to talk 404 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: about depression because I was depressed too. And then that's 405 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: when he came out and said that he was depressed 406 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: also because of everything that was going on and Bessie. 407 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 1: He just felt like at the age he wasn't where 408 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: he was supposed to be. But he's always been like 409 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: that ambitious and then it's like if you feel like 410 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: he's in a crush for too long, he had started 411 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: getting frustrated, but he won't express it that much, but 412 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: you can see it. I want to make sure I 413 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: have this crystal clear on the time, because Danye went 414 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: out to Colorado and the Idaho in and then he 415 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: didn't die until later. This was before he went to this, Okay, 416 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: so and then this is also the time when he 417 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: expresses to you, I'm also depressed. When he came back 418 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: after going to Idaho. It came home and then starts 419 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: staying with his mother and with Derek. Was he still 420 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 1: coming over a lot in that time? Yeah, he would 421 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: come to see Damon because Damiel will cut his hair, 422 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: but it wasn't. We didn't have any more conversations about 423 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: his depression. He just asked how I was feeling, without 424 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: any visible wounds, and with a chair turned over near 425 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: the tree. It was decided that Danye died by suicide. 426 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: His best friend Damon doesn't question that conclusion, but only 427 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: wonders what if what if he had gotten with Danya 428 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: that day. Listening to this show and thinking about the 429 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: facts of the case, We're sure that you listeners have 430 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: probably wondered, how would it be possible to hang someone 431 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: against their will without hurting them first? We've asked ourselves 432 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: that question over and over, and so we have imagined 433 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: a variety of scenarios when imagining how someone could get 434 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: the drop on Donya. The first thing people might wonder 435 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: is if Donya had been drugged. The toxicology report on 436 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: Donya only found metabolites of cannabis. His urine was positive 437 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: for eleven hydroxy t C and carboxy th C. Since 438 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: these metabolites can linger in the body for a long time, 439 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: we called the toxicology lab to ask if they thought 440 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: Donya was high when he died. What was the person's 441 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 1: name on this case? The person's name was Donye Jones. 442 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: The report says that there was some th HC metabolites 443 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: found within the urine sample, but it does not list 444 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: the units at the On the header page, it says 445 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: result confirmed present and then following it, there's like a 446 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: space for units, but it's blank. Hold on, let me, 447 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: let me, let me try to pull this case file 448 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: up here and see if I can and see what 449 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: you're talking about. So what are you trying to do? Though? 450 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: Like what are you what are you trying to figure out? Though? 451 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: Like the units? What does that mean? Though? Like how 452 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to know. Is this something that was residual 453 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: in this person's system from like a week, two weeks, 454 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: three weeks prior to them dying, or were they high 455 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: when they died. So, if you're a smoker, depending upon 456 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: how have you of a smoker you are, you can 457 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: test positive weeks or even a couple of months later. 458 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: Certainly it depend up on how what level of a 459 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: smoker you are. So it's possible that this person could 460 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: have smoked two weeks ago. In the case, it sort 461 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: of matters if the person was using right then and 462 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: there or if it was like two weeks prior. Yeah, 463 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't answer that. You need to subpoenas 464 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: somebody to find out some real information. Unless you're part 465 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: of law enforcement or something, you're probably not gonna be 466 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 1: able to get that. It's just that because it does 467 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: list the quantity found. So if it was done in 468 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,200 Speaker 1: the urine, did I say it was done in urine? Yeah, 469 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: it's a specimen you one which they list as the urine. 470 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 1: That's why that's what I can tell you. Because the 471 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: urine wasn't quantitated, it was just confirmed present. Is there 472 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: a way to know if this person was high that 473 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: night or is there no way to know that? Okay, uh, 474 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: certainly there is. Yeah, Um, my opinion would be no. 475 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: Would there have been something else found besides these metabolites 476 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: Had they been high at the moment, they would have 477 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: been a show, they would have shown up. The toxicology 478 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 1: report does say they looked for alcohol and found none, 479 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: as well as common date rape drugs, which are benzo 480 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 1: diazepines called midazolem into mazapam and found none. They don't 481 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: seem to have looked for good old fashioned chloroform a 482 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: k A trichloro methane, but maybe that's because it's too 483 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: old school. Who knows. And then, of course there is 484 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: the YouTube search we mentioned at the end of episode eight. 485 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: When going through Danya's YouTube search history, we found a 486 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: search for how to tie a hangman's noose with a 487 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: blanket that occurred on October sixte Dania's last full day alive. 488 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: The video at links to was posted by a user 489 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 1: named I T. S Tactical and it's just shy of 490 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: five minutes long. The video demonstrates how to tie a 491 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: hangman's noose, but with a rope, not a blanket. Danyae's 492 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: YouTube history shows that the video was watched all the 493 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: way through. It would be easy to see this search 494 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: and try to close the book on the idea that 495 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: Danya was murdered, and we admit at first we began 496 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: to lean that way, but before we brought it to 497 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: Melissa's attention, we wanted to be damn sure of what 498 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: we've found. Right from the get go, we noted that 499 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: Danya wasn't hanged with a hangman's noose. We thought, if 500 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: Danye needed to watch a video on how to tie 501 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: inn not to hang himself, the knot that was ultimately 502 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: chosen wasn't this one and the only other searches he 503 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: ever did on not tying or for how to tie ties, 504 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: you know, like a tie you wear with a suit. 505 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: So if don Ye did watch this video, he didn't 506 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: learn anything from it that he would end up putting 507 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: to use. So we scrutinized the search history data and 508 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: found that it contained something that we thought was very bizarre. 509 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: Just buckle in and stay with us here. The hangman's 510 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: new search was in his list of searches, meaning there 511 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: were twenty six other searches that he made after the 512 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: new search, and those searches were for a lot of 513 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: random things you wouldn't imagine would be on someone's mind 514 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: if they were trying to learn how to hang themselves. 515 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: For instance, there's a search for gap funding for real 516 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: estate investors, and one for how to be your own 517 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: financial advisor. There's a search for when your boss makes 518 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: you work mandatory Saturdays, and even one for how to 519 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: use hp off us Jet sixty hundred. We couldn't help 520 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: but get stuck on the question why would someone planning 521 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: to take their own life in a matter of hours 522 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: be looking up videos on investments? It was FERI con 523 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: what life is like in Boston, how to use an 524 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: office jet printer. After scrutinizing these searches, another oddity came 525 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: to light. For the twenty six searches that come after 526 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: the Hangman's New search, none of the corresponding videos were 527 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: actually watched. In fact, every search done after the Hangman's 528 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: New search actually corresponded to a video that Dania watched 529 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: in the days and weeks before the sixteen. So, for instance, 530 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: there's a search for Kendrick Lamar Heart Part four, which 531 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: Dania actually watched on the seventh, So eleven days prior. 532 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: There's a search for what info does a private lender need, 533 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: which was actually something he watched on October twelve, so 534 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: four days prior that weird office jet printer search. He 535 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: watched that video on September twenty nine, so more than 536 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: two weeks prior. And again, none of these twenty six 537 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: searches are for videos that Donya would actually watch on 538 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: the sixteenth, after the Hangman's New search. Why would Danya 539 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,719 Speaker 1: do this, make these twenty searches after the Hangman's New 540 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: search but not watch any of the videos. What does 541 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: it all mean? It looks as though perhaps there was 542 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: intent to push the search for the Hangman's News video 543 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: down the search queue. It's not pushed so far as 544 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: to be gone entirely, but it's pushed far enough down 545 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: the stack so it isn't immediately visible when one taps 546 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: the search bar to begin a new search. This could 547 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: easily be accomplished by randomly tapping old searches in the 548 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: search history over and over again without actually watching any 549 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: of the content that they linked to, until the desired 550 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: search is pushed to the bottom of the pile. Why 551 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: would he push his Hangman's New search far down the queue. 552 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: If he was trying to hide it from others, he 553 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: could have used this same technique and pushed it all 554 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: the way out so it could never be found. He 555 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: also could open his Google history and delete the search 556 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: and the viewing of the video entirely. And we have 557 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: to ask who would he have been hiding it from. 558 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: No one in his household had his phone pass code. 559 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: If he planned on dying by suicide that night, only 560 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: hours later, the intent would readily be clear by morning. 561 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: The placement of the hangman's new search beneath twenty six 562 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: other searches that he had originally made in the days 563 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: and weeks prior looked to us like a pattern of 564 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: activity aimed at concealment. Yes, it could have been done 565 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: who aimed to conceal the fact that he made this search, 566 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: But it would be odd that he wouldn't conceal it 567 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: entirely or deleted if he was, in fact so afraid 568 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: of somebody finding it. Then there is the timing of 569 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: the search. It happened at seven fifty three pm, and 570 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: the corresponding video was watched at seven fifty four pm. 571 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: This is exactly when Donye would have been on the 572 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: couch in the basement watching the Boston Celtics season opener 573 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: next to his stepfather Derek. What time I got downstairs, 574 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: he already had the game. More so I sat down 575 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,959 Speaker 1: and when we're born back and forth, you know, shooting 576 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: ship like my guys do you know almost lakers Man, 577 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: so you know, if it was almost in an opposition 578 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: of each other. So that's what made the game so 579 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: good because he's a self expanding on my lakers Man. 580 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: When I came down there, you know, he has his paperworkout. 581 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: You know, he's on his research, but he's also watching 582 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: the game at the same time, so kind of like 583 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: you know, he's kind of back and forth with it. 584 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: And then once we really got into the game, you 585 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: know we Kara just seven in the Wattern game. Which 586 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: did you get up at any point, like from the 587 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: time that you went down there until that you left 588 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: her work? Did you do you think he probably left 589 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: the basement once or twice or did you stay down 590 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: there the whole time? Yeah, I can't really recalled. I 591 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: don't think I left the basement at all when I 592 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: went down there, because we have cold drinks and refrigerators, 593 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,239 Speaker 1: so I have to go upstairs and we're having I think, 594 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: you know what about like, what would you have done 595 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: during halftime? Do you think get up to stretch your 596 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: legs or probably just stayed down there and hung out 597 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 1: with him or what. I never went upstairs. I really 598 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: don't think I want up stairs at all during the time. 599 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: Did you do you recall him watching anything on the phone, 600 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: Like would he have been watching the game and then 601 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 1: like watching a video on his phone? You recall anything 602 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 1: like that if you did. I really can't recall if 603 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: he did or not. But he's right down he said 604 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: he's doing he was doing some light. How would you 605 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: describe the movie? There's just routine, is you know, it 606 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: was just a regular knight plus at home. Let me 607 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: talk about board and hey, we're coming back when we 608 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: had a bag and we had an injury or whatever, 609 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: you'll do basketball because the sports talk I was giving 610 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: him the visions about the legs. I say, anybody you 611 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: know be you know, billy whatever, They ain't gonna be 612 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: the leggers, you know, and uh, you know, we was 613 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: asking about that or whatever, and then uh, I said, 614 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: I'm doin't gonna go to work, you know. Um, I 615 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: see how the more like you at He was like, 616 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: all right, all right, up right, you know, I was 617 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: getting out of work or whatever, and I went on 618 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: upstairs and kiss my wife's flag, going to work out 619 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: of it. The order of the search history, plus the 620 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: timing of the search made us again consider maybe there 621 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: was more here than meets the eye. We told all 622 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: of this to Melissa. And also the time for it 623 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: was at seven fifty PM, which is when he was 624 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: watching basketball with Derek, so that could mean a lot 625 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: of things. Someone could say, you know, perhaps he did 626 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: it when Derek got up to go to the bathroom, 627 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: or you know, it was halftime and Derek went to 628 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: get a snack and Danye quickly did that. So it's 629 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:48,279 Speaker 1: not proof, but it's interesting that the timing is is 630 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: pretty odd. It would seem sort of strange to just 631 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: jump right out of nowhere in the middle of this 632 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: basketball game to quickly do that and then go right 633 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: back to living life. You know. There was one other 634 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: detail that we found. The Hangman's New search wasn't made 635 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: from an Android. It was made from an Apple device, 636 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: so it wasn't made from the Android. Now I do 637 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 1: know that Danya also had an iPhone well, you know what, 638 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: I know, he get um Android's home Journette Kyle, who 639 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: I talked to dear about. I mean, his mood that 640 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:33,479 Speaker 1: night was nothing like of a mood where we would 641 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: be concerned about anything. You know. It was exciting that 642 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: I could still laughing about this game. But that's just 643 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 1: don't fund right. According to the police report, Detective Matthew King, 644 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: who was working alongside Detective Andrewer the morning Danye died, 645 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: checked both of Danyae's phones. One he said was pass 646 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: code protected so he couldn't access it. The other, he wrote, 647 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: was either broken or it had a dead battery. He 648 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: had just lost his stores or so he would come 649 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: and ask me give you mine, and sometimes I'll be like, 650 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: thank Danye, m you with a mind. I really don't. 651 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: I don't remember if he used it that day. I 652 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: really don't think he did. I know I had it 653 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: that night because I was in the Spear bedroom, so 654 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: I had it at that time when you know, everything happened, 655 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 1: it was upstairs. Melissa couldn't remember the last time Donna 656 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: borrowed her iPhone charger, but she believes the evening that 657 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 1: he died, she had it with her as she watched 658 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: TV upstairs. Since Detective King found an iPhone with no 659 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: charge the next morning, there was a chance at least 660 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 1: that Danye's iPhone was not charged on the evening of 661 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: the sixteen. We just can't say for certain. Now. The 662 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 1: most interesting thing, and this is what can earns me 663 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: the most, is that I went back in and I 664 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 1: was trying to look at his history again and go 665 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: through it, and some of that history seems to have 666 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: been deleted since we looked at it the first time. 667 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 1: There is stuff, yeah, there is stuff that we saw 668 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: for October seventeen, the viewing of about six music videos 669 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: on YouTube, and but when I went back to look 670 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: at those, they're gone. When we first went through Donye's 671 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: YouTube history and saw that six music videos were watched 672 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: on October sevente we assumed they were watched by don 673 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 1: Ya in the early morning hours before he died, so 674 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: after midnight but before four am. When we revisited his 675 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: data a few weeks later, any trace of activity for 676 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: the seventeen was gone. We documented it the first time. 677 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: We took photographs of it, so we have photographs of 678 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: it being there. And I can't say this for certain, 679 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: but it makes me wonder, is someone still logged into 680 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: his account somewhere perhaps oh wow, yeah, oh yeah. So 681 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: and there's other weird things. There's a lot of little 682 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: weird things that like, quite frankly, I'm not an expert, 683 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: and I can't explain if someone has his password and 684 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: is still logging into it, or perhaps you know, there's 685 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: maybe a device like someone else's phone that he logged 686 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 1: into a long time ago, and then it's like one 687 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: of those things where the password saved and they can 688 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: just switch back in. I don't know, I really don't. 689 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: But my feeling is just that Google is this huge company. 690 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 1: YouTube is a huge company there, you know, billion dollar industry, 691 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: and they make their money tracking data, you know, selling 692 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: data and keeping track of everything. So I don't think 693 00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:02,359 Speaker 1: things just go missing by themselves. And again I don't 694 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,240 Speaker 1: want to like over sell this, but there's a possibility 695 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: just and maybe it's remote, maybe it's slim, but that 696 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: if we can get to subpoena Google, we can see 697 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 1: exactly who is logged in making those searches, possibly deleting history, 698 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: possibly reorganizing history. Because if somebody is doing that, I 699 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: know I got chills too when we were thinking about this. 700 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: We remembered a piece of a conversation we once had 701 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 1: with Derek and Melissa. Let us say it. I had 702 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: saw him. He was into his tablet thing looking um 703 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,520 Speaker 1: for he was looking at low on YouTube. That's what 704 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,479 Speaker 1: I think. It was a tablet. Is there a table 705 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: We don't wait, a taboot one of those downstairs at 706 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: the other house. It was a tablet. That was you know, 707 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,760 Speaker 1: because I do what I'm saying, working on a tablet, 708 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: and it could be in a borrow tablet. Some some 709 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:13,760 Speaker 1: fans some marcularity because I don't are. YouTube search history 710 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: is not device specific, it's account specific. So if you 711 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: log into your Google account on a tablet and make 712 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: searches and then go to your YouTube history on your phone, 713 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: the searches will still be visible. If it's true that 714 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: Donya borrowed a tablet from somebody and had logged into 715 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: YouTube on it and then return the tablet before logging out, 716 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: whoever had that tablet could make searches and delete activity, 717 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: and we would find that going through his history on 718 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: his phone. It could be a door that blows wide 719 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,759 Speaker 1: open and is great and helps answer all the questions. 720 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: It could also be something that gets an answer and 721 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: it's not what we expected, and we go, oh, okay, 722 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: and it's not you know, so I just want to 723 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: make sure, like I don't want to get your whole 724 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: way up, but I think we need to pursue it. 725 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,760 Speaker 1: And the problem is the only ones who can pursue 726 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:11,240 Speaker 1: it are people who have legal subpoena power, right, okay, 727 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:19,360 Speaker 1: all right. It's hard not to see this YouTube search 728 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: as a piece of critical evidence, a digital fingerprint belonging 729 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,479 Speaker 1: to either Danja himself or to a conspirator in his murder. 730 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: But as it stands, we have no way of pinning 731 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: down exactly which device from which WiFi router was used 732 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: to make the search. We also have no way of 733 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: opening Danya's iPhone. We needed someone with subpoena power. Plus, 734 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 1: there were other questions. If Danya was actually murdered, the 735 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 1: planning and execution of the act would seem to require 736 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: the murderers have a lot of not only skill and 737 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: ability to hide their deeds, but also inside knowledge about 738 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 1: Danya's life and the layout of his home. How would 739 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 1: all of this be possible? Is it possible? Or does 740 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,320 Speaker 1: he even considering Danye's death a homicide at this point 741 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 1: stretched the imagination farther than it rationally wants to bend. 742 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:20,320 Speaker 1: That's next time on After the Uprising. After the Uprising 743 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: is directed, produced, investigated, written and reported by myself, Raino Vischelski, 744 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: and John Duffy. John Duffy was also the editor. Dave 745 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: Cassidy was producer, Sound engineering, design and mixed by Josh Condon. 746 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: Executive producers were Matt McDonough and Tina x Eros for 747 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: Now This, Brett Kushner for Group nine Media, and Jeff 748 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: Boove was executive in charge of production. Jonathan Hartwig and 749 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 1: Bradley Rayford were consulting producers. Eliza Craig was assistant producer 750 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,840 Speaker 1: and did additional reporting. Mallory Keenoy was a writer's assistant. 751 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 1: Kristen McVicker and Taya Wilson were production assistants, and Hailey 752 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: Klezmer was a post production assistant. Fact checking by Alison Humes. 753 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 1: Theme song and other music by Zachary Walter, legal by 754 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,120 Speaker 1: Keith Sclar and Peter Yazy. Special thanks to Ann fraud Oh, 755 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: Danny Gonzalez, Barbara Copple, Alex Lester, Bethan Macaluso, Emily Maronoff, 756 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,800 Speaker 1: Ruth Vaka, and the Reporter's Committee for Freedom of the Press. 757 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 1: After the Uprising is a production of Double asterisk I 758 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,320 Speaker 1: Heart Media and now this in association with True Stories. 759 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter and Facebook. If you 760 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,320 Speaker 1: have useful information about the death of Danye Jones or 761 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: anything we've covered, please leave a message on our tip 762 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 1: line at three four seven six seven four seven four 763 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 1: zero one.