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Speaker 1: Trust me? Do you trust me?

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Speaker 2: Right? Everly?

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Speaker 1: And you astray trust? This is the truth, the only truth.

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Speaker 3: If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't

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Speaker 3: welcome to trust me. The podcast about colt S extreme

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Speaker 3: belief and manipulation from two crypto babes who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 4: I'm Lola Blanc. What's up? What's up? I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: Sounds like a real crypto babe over here.

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Speaker 3: This week is part one of our two parter with

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Speaker 3: Dan Olsen of YouTube channel Folding Ideas.

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Speaker 4: He is brilliant and he is going.

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Speaker 3: To talk to us about crypto NFTs and the cultiness

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Speaker 3: of these communities. He will be breaking down the history

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Speaker 3: of bitcoin and what cryptocurrencies actually are, how NFTs came about,

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Speaker 3: and we're basically an Emperor's new close situation, and the

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Speaker 3: cult like thinking that began to emerge in many of

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Speaker 3: these online communities, promising potential investors not just wealth but

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Speaker 3: destiny as long as they suppressed their out.

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Speaker 2: We'll discuss the gender divide between crypto promises of prosperity

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Speaker 2: versus say New Age promises of prosperity. Some of the

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Speaker 2: jargon and acronyms used by its communities to keep people

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Speaker 2: in and how it all added up to a culture

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Speaker 2: that discouraged doubt and demanded keeping the faith no matter what.

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Speaker 3: And next week we will discuss how charismatic leaders drive

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Speaker 3: basically all of this behavior and lots more.

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Speaker 2: This was a world that I've been wanting to delve into.

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of people who invest and that

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Speaker 2: I myself tried my hand in a little and investing

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Speaker 2: in crypto, and you know, it's the wild, wild West

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Speaker 2: out there, So it was really cool to speak to

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Speaker 2: somebody who's so thoroughly well versed.

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Speaker 4: Indeed, it is something that I have.

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Speaker 3: Tried to understand and just failed over and over again,

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Speaker 3: and he breaks it down in a way I can

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Speaker 3: actually understand.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's part of the plan.

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Speaker 2: You know, he will say on this podcast, is like

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Speaker 2: it makes it so complicated that people are like.

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Speaker 4: Well, I guess it must be really smart. Totally. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Any who, I bet you're wondering about my cultiust thing.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh my god. Cut me out saying any who,

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Speaker 2: what the hell? Anyway, I bet you're probably wondering about

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Speaker 2: my cultius thing.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, I so am how did you know?

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Speaker 2: I had just some psychic Okay, so mine involves crypto.

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Speaker 2: This was a kidnapping last year that happened in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 2: I believe, or at least New York City. So an

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Speaker 2: Italian man came to New York City. He had a

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Speaker 2: lot of money in crypto, and two men kidnapped him

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Speaker 2: for seventeen days where they tortured him for his Bitcoin password.

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Speaker 3: Seventeen days is a lot of days of torture, electric

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Speaker 3: shock by the rest him over the stairs, starting to

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Speaker 3: kill him if he did not provide his Bitcoin password,

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Speaker 3: and then made him smoke crack cocaine whoa which you know,

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Speaker 3: very specific, very specific.

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Speaker 2: They would pour tequila on him and light him on

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Speaker 2: fire and then urinate on him like this would bury

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Speaker 2: my god. And the two guys doing this to this

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Speaker 2: man in New York are like two finance bros. Of course,

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Speaker 2: those are the people torturing somebody in an apartment. And

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Speaker 2: it wasn't any apartment. It was like a very expensive apartment.

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Speaker 2: But he was able to say, I'm gonna go get

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Speaker 2: the laptop to sign in after all of this, which

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Speaker 2: ps five seconds of torture, and I'm like, here's all

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Speaker 2: the bitcoins. So already we're in a culture that you

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Speaker 2: and I are not you know, understanding quite So he

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Speaker 2: ran out, escaped, found a cop, and they led them back.

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Speaker 4: There was night goggles, body.

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Speaker 2: Arm chicken wire t shirts with the picture of the

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Speaker 2: victim on it with his whack pipe in his mouth.

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Speaker 4: What what, ballistic.

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Speaker 2: Helmets, polaroid pictures of the guy with firearms pointed at

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Speaker 2: his holl.

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Speaker 3: My god, I have to say these men, they are creative.

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Speaker 3: They maybe entered the wrong field.

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Speaker 2: They entered the wrong field, and so they are obviously

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Speaker 2: both in custody. This is the man who is torturing.

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Speaker 2: He's one of the tortures.

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Speaker 3: Whoa oka, yes, okay, she sent me a picture of

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Speaker 3: a white man in a polo shirt with brown hair,

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Speaker 3: and it's giving Michael Pitt in Funny Games if anyone

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Speaker 3: has seen that. And it's also giving that serial rapist

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Speaker 3: that I went on a couple of dates with and

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Speaker 3: had no idea he was serially raping women in his

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Speaker 3: own prison for Harvard grad.

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Speaker 4: Very clean cut looking.

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Speaker 3: Anyone who's clean cut looking, now, I don't trust it automatically.

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Speaker 4: You've done some shit? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, A

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Speaker 4: clean cut is seek how white dudes, that's a no

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Speaker 4: for me.

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Speaker 2: So uh, anyway, that's mine and it goes along with crypto,

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Speaker 2: and it just made me think, Wow, what a dangerous world.

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Speaker 2: And there's so much I'm not understanding about this that

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Speaker 2: somebody wouldn't give over their password, even though I understand

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Speaker 2: that there's millions of dollars at stake, but just threatening

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Speaker 2: to be killed, it's somehow different than real money. Seemingly,

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Speaker 2: there's obviously some emotional attachment to this crypto that's even

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Speaker 2: more than just monetary, because so often when people are

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Speaker 2: held at gunpoint or tortured, they hand over their money,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: Exactly whatever it also represented an addition to the money

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Speaker 3: must have been.

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Speaker 4: Very powerful, is what we get into in this episode. Totally.

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Speaker 4: So before we do, what's your cultist thing of the week?

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Speaker 4: Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: So I sometimes I just google the word cult and

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Speaker 3: see what comes up. And this week I googled the

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Speaker 3: word cult and I saw a headline that said ancient

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Speaker 3: Greek mystery cult priestesses may have chemically tweaked fung to

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Speaker 3: induce psychedelic hallucinations from Live science dot com article by

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Speaker 3: Tom Metcalf. Obviously, I needed to know who these ancient

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Speaker 3: Greek mystery cult priestesses were and what this.

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Speaker 4: Fungus was all about.

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Speaker 3: And I learned mystery cults were these secret religious schools

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Speaker 3: in the Greco Roman world with initiations and rituals, and

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Speaker 3: only initiates could participate, and there was ritual purification, there

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Speaker 3: was sacrifice, there was fasting, but all depended on which

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Speaker 3: myth of the gods the cult was centered around. So

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Speaker 3: this one is the Elusinian Mysteries. Apparently the most revered

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Speaker 3: secret religious initiations in ancient Greece. It was to honor

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Speaker 3: the god's demeter and persephony. Okay, so these guys, they

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Speaker 3: had their annual rights twice a year, often involved sacred

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Speaker 3: processions to cult sites, ritual bathing in the sea, animal sacrifices,

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Speaker 3: and fasting for several days. And the reason for this

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Speaker 3: headline because I was like, why do we care? Like

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Speaker 3: I googled the name of this group. Were they investing

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Speaker 3: in crypto?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 4: My god, they were.

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Speaker 3: So when you look up the name of this group,

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Speaker 3: the Eleusinian Mysteries, it's just like, were.

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Speaker 4: They on drugs? Were they not on drugs? Were they

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Speaker 4: on drugs? Were they not on drugs, And.

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Speaker 3: I was like, why what is the debate about whether

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Speaker 3: this group was on drugs. They probably were on drugs,

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Speaker 3: but apparently this is like a big source of debate

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Speaker 3: in the academic world. I think because there were so

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Speaker 3: many intense religious revelations reported there, and then of course

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Speaker 3: people in the sixties and seventies were like, whoa, we're

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Speaker 3: doing so much LSD. They must have been doing so

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Speaker 3: many shrooms. It's been like this ongoing debate about like, well,

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Speaker 3: they had shrooms, but the kind of shrooms they had

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Speaker 3: would have killed yah, and they were deeply poisonous, so

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Speaker 3: there's no way they were doing shrooms. And now this

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Speaker 3: new study is like, aha, but if they prepared it

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Speaker 3: in a particular way, it would not have killed them.

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Speaker 3: So I guess this is the big development in the

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Speaker 3: ancient Greek cult.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, we need to do an episode on

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Speaker 2: that cult? And what I join at, Yes, I would.

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Speaker 2: Drugs are no drugs, so I wanted to learn more

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Speaker 2: about it. And how odd that that's the focal point

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Speaker 2: right now?

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Speaker 3: I know, But you know, there's a there's an area

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Speaker 3: of study for everything.

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Speaker 4: Sure I phrased that oddly, but you know what I mean,

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Speaker 4: and you know who studies crypto.

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Speaker 2: Dan dan Olsen our guest today, shall we we shall.

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Speaker 3: Dan Olsen, welcome to trust me. Thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for joining.

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Speaker 1: Us, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: As we were just saying, before we were recording, we

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Speaker 3: watched your uh, your NFT and crypto video and grasped

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Speaker 3: maybe their percent of it.

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Speaker 4: So we are.

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Speaker 3: Relying on you today to translate to us like we

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Speaker 3: are five years old. But there is so much to

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Speaker 3: get into just with the cultiness of these tech cultures.

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Speaker 3: But first of all, can you just talk to us

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Speaker 3: a little bit about your YouTube channel folding ideas and

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Speaker 3: the various topics you've covered, like flat earthers NFTs. Is

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Speaker 3: there a through line and the types of topics that

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Speaker 3: you choose to dive into.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So the channel, I've been running it for fifteen

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Speaker 1: This will be the sixteenth year.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the channel's gone through a number of evolutions over

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Speaker 1: time in terms of like the subject matter that most

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Speaker 1: immediately grabs my attention, But the through line has always

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Speaker 1: been narrative. It's been stories and like the craft of

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Speaker 1: storytelling not just applied to fiction but to the wider world.

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Speaker 1: There's a long running theory that oral tradition that the

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Speaker 1: ability to tell each other's stories is one of the

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Speaker 1: earliest technologies that humans developed in order to preserve knowledge

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Speaker 1: and pass information from one generation to the next. And

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Speaker 1: that's why we now have spacecraft and you know, aren't

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Speaker 1: just aren't still hanging out in the trees. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to just like overharp that. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's really easy for someone you know, with a specialty

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Speaker 1: to convince themselves that it's like, oh, well, my specialty

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Speaker 1: is like the most important one. You know, Oh I

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Speaker 1: write stories? Well, did you know stories are actually like

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Speaker 1: the core of human human technology? I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to hype it up like that, but it is,

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Speaker 1: like it is undeniably a very old tradition, is very

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Speaker 1: deeply baked into the way that humans interface with one another,

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Speaker 1: and the the techniques of storytelling are not just limited

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Speaker 1: to fiction, because stories are ultimately a way of like

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Speaker 1: compressing information and making something digestible, making it easier to transfer,

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Speaker 1: making it easier to retain, giving it patterns that make sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and if it's compelling enough, people will follow it

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Speaker 2: anywhere it might.

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Speaker 3: Lead, regardless of the evidence behind it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I just I use that

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Speaker 1: lens as a way of sort of breaking down different subjects.

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Speaker 1: And I knew very early on when I was getting

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Speaker 1: started on the channel that if I picked something like

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Speaker 1: were Wolf movies to talk about that I would I

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Speaker 1: would rapidly like exhaust the material that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk about. I would get bored. So I specifically, when

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Speaker 1: I was building the channel, I was like, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: need to make sure that I've got a framework that

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Speaker 1: will allow me to just kind of like follow my

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Speaker 1: interests and go where the story ye is, where is

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Speaker 1: the thing to talk about? And so that has allowed

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Speaker 1: me to move kind of seamlessly from talking about specific

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Speaker 1: movies or television shows, books, et cetera, into talking about politics, propaganda,

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Speaker 1: the meta narrative of the military, something like crypto, something

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Speaker 1: like the metaverse, which are effectively just these you know,

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Speaker 1: they're they're advertising pitches, which is a form of storytelling.

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Speaker 4: M hm, precisely. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: In particular, loved your video on flat earthers because, I mean,

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Speaker 3: for a number of reasons. First of all, you just

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Speaker 3: dive so deeply into it, but it also kind of

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Speaker 3: functions as a MythBusters for conspiracy theories, which which I love,

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Speaker 3: which is probably too reductive to you, but to me,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, yes, I want, I need. I want to

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Speaker 3: watch someone break down like what is rational and what

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Speaker 3: is not rational and how much of this is driven

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Speaker 3: by emotion?

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Speaker 4: And that's that's kind of what we want to focus

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Speaker 4: on today.

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Speaker 3: Is these subcultures that develop around a story that somebody

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Speaker 3: is telling about how the people engaging in it are special.

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Speaker 4: And so with that said, can we talk about crypto.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about okay, so for for the Nube like us,

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Speaker 3: just in very simple terms, like what is crypto currency?

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Speaker 4: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Cryptocurrency is uh? Oh boy? Which which which definition? To

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Speaker 1: pull out of the bag because it's so malleable. It's

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Speaker 1: been so many different things over the years. The original

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Speaker 1: pitch was digital money, which what was digital cash? I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't say digital money, was digital cash that if you

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Speaker 1: think about a dollar bill that you've got in your pocket.

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Speaker 1: No one is really paying attention to that specific dollar bill,

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Speaker 1: but it is also that specific dollar bill if you

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Speaker 1: wrote a little note on the side of it, you know,

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Speaker 1: like people like to deface bills, like they'll draw funny

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Speaker 1: faces on whoever's on it or up in Canada, one

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Speaker 1: of our our five dollars bill for a long time

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Speaker 1: had a prime minister on it that was very easy

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Speaker 1: to alter, so that he looked like Spock from Star Trek.

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Speaker 2: You're saying, you can have multiple one dollar bills, but

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Speaker 2: only there's only one each dollar bill.

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Speaker 1: Yes, if you deface a bill, if you stamp something on,

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Speaker 1: if you whatever like that follows that bill. Yes, and

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Speaker 1: like you could, in theory, if you were insane, track

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Speaker 1: your single bit, like you could go find it again

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Speaker 1: and like you get that specific bill back. It is

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Speaker 1: a unique object in and of itself. So there was

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Speaker 1: this story of like digital cash, that it behaves like

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Speaker 1: cash in that you've got a wallet that you've just

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Speaker 1: got stuff full of bills, but those individual bills are

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Speaker 1: no one's really like you know, no one can track them.

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Speaker 1: It's not tied to a bank account. It's not just

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Speaker 1: a immaterial ledger of debits and credits. It's it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a thing. It's a conceptual thing that moves from

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Speaker 1: place to place. And that's sort of this metaphor that

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Speaker 1: they were using with with bitcoin that fell apart very quickly,

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Speaker 1: and it instead became this narrative. The one that's been

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Speaker 1: the most dominant for the longest time is digital gold,

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Speaker 1: which has some of the same elements of the cash story,

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Speaker 1: but just sort of alters the expectation of what you're

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Speaker 1: going to do with it, right, so that it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's digital gold, You're not meant to spend it. You're

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Speaker 1: meant to like hoard it, and you know, and then occasionally,

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Speaker 1: if you need to spend it, you convert it into

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Speaker 1: some other more bendable format.

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Speaker 2: Right. So, going back to what you were saying about

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Speaker 2: storytelling being kind of the most primal way humans seem

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Speaker 2: to communicate, can you kind of talk us through like

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Speaker 2: what is the mythical origins of these people that were

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Speaker 2: trusting to be in charge of this kind of I'm

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Speaker 2: comparing it to a cult later, and what's kind of

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Speaker 2: the inner narrative people have about themselves once they're on

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Speaker 2: this particular path. Because I'm imagining it's I'm a I'm

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Speaker 2: an early adapter. I'm against the grain, but I would

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Speaker 2: love to hear what you oh boy.

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Speaker 1: So the initial digital narrative around bitcoin was very much

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Speaker 1: rooted in the two thousand and eight financial crisis and

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Speaker 1: a distrust of banks and a distrust of the government

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Speaker 1: to adequately regulate banks and to punish banks for malfeasance

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Speaker 1: and wrongdoing and spreading chaos and destruction in their wake

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Speaker 1: through negligence and reckless behavior. That's what it was rooted in.

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Speaker 1: And so the initial identity that people attached to bitcoin

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Speaker 1: adoption was this, we are breaking away from the system.

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Speaker 1: We are building our own system. We are creating something

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Speaker 1: that the man cannot touch. And it turns out the

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Speaker 1: man can very touch it. Man can touch it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so the tightrope to walk here really is kind of

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Speaker 1: like and this was why line goes up My video

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Speaker 1: on the subject wound up being kind of so big

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Speaker 1: and so fast paced despite being two hours long. Is

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Speaker 1: that there's this frequently huge disconnect between the myth and

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Speaker 1: the actual pragmatic reality of what you're doing. But so

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Speaker 1: if we're just going with, like internally, what's that identity,

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Speaker 1: it's this identity of self reliance, of breaking away from

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Speaker 1: the system, of being a willing outsider, you know, a

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Speaker 1: digital hermit. And also that gets mixed in with factions

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Speaker 1: that are very much about like, oh, it's not just

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Speaker 1: it's not just breaking away. You're not just the digital

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Speaker 1: version of the guy with gold bullion hiding in the woods.

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Speaker 1: You are actually on the cutting edge. You're cyberpunk. You

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Speaker 1: your ten steps ahead of the system you're in. You're

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Speaker 1: in a system that the current system can't even comprehend yet, which,

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Speaker 1: like in the.

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Speaker 3: Tech world, people will make these assertions and then sometimes

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Speaker 3: be very very greatly rewarded for them, as a number

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Speaker 3: of people were in the crypto world. Like I remember

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Speaker 3: random bros in my life being like, oh, you got

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Speaker 3: mine for bitcoin. You got mine for bitcoin. You're making

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Speaker 3: so much money, And that was really fringe at the time.

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Speaker 3: What was it that like push it into this mainstream, Like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you were going to make so much fucking money from bitcoin,

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Speaker 3: if you you know, like, how did that happen?

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Speaker 4: Who drove that?

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Speaker 1: So Bitcoin initially when it was still in its cash

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Speaker 1: phase was like deeply skewed, right, So drugs the main

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Speaker 1: thing that you could buy with bitcoin, you know, like

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Speaker 1: you would spend tens of bitcoin on a little bit

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Speaker 1: of drugs. Basically like a dollar value like you it

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Speaker 1: had you know, it had sort of an equivalency to

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Speaker 1: to a dollar. But then through just sort of a

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Speaker 1: confluence of happen stance Bitcoin managed well, and these things

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Speaker 1: are entwined, right, Like, you can't you can't ignore the

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Speaker 1: drugs angle because drugs was the thing that bitcoin could

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Speaker 1: actually be spent on. So that was the thing that

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Speaker 1: created a demand for people to actually want to have

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Speaker 1: bitcoin with. It's like, oh, this is a this is

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Speaker 1: a thing that I can use to acquire a thing

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Speaker 1: I want.

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Speaker 3: Are we talking about like Silk Road? Like yeah, okay, okay,

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Speaker 3: I didn't realize that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, Yeah, So it was Silk Road that created,

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Speaker 1: you know, created a market that Bitcoin was the necessary

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Speaker 1: intermediate to use that. It's like, you had people who

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Speaker 1: wanted drugs. You had people who wanted to sell drugs,

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Speaker 1: and in the middle was bitcoin willing to help these people.

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Speaker 4: Have a meat cue, have a little meat cue d

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Speaker 4: on Silk.

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Speaker 3: Road, which was allegedly incredibly secure because of the technologies.

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Speaker 4: Is that right?

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Speaker 1: Well, the idea was that because you could just mine

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Speaker 1: bitcoin at the time on your GPU, you could create

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Speaker 1: bitcoin effectively out of nothing, just out of out of

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Speaker 1: electricity that you spend, which wi means that your real

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Speaker 1: world money and your bitcoin money are wholly divorced from

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Speaker 1: one another. You can you can acquire these bills through

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Speaker 1: a method that has no connection to your identity, no

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Speaker 1: connection to just just no connection to you, uh, and

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Speaker 1: is thus pseudononymous. You're just you're just a hash string

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Speaker 1: of numbers for a wallet address and not a person.

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Speaker 1: And so that you know, facilitated silk road in the

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Speaker 1: middle as like it's like, yeah, your relatively risk free

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Speaker 1: doing this interaction basically as long as you trust that

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Speaker 1: the person you're ultimately giving your mailing address to so

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Speaker 1: that they can send you the physical object you're trying

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Speaker 1: to acquire. As long as you trust that person to

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Speaker 1: mail you something.

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Speaker 2: Like somebody's like murdered, like somebody got caught for trying

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Speaker 2: to murder someone.

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Speaker 4: There was a number of those.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it was just a disaster. But it's so

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Speaker 2: interesting how this so quickly became like a self regulating,

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Speaker 2: very quickly growing group of tech bros.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it exploded, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so the thing was by having this actual market

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Speaker 1: even like before that phase, Bitcoin was like the famous

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Speaker 1: like bitcoin pizza where it was like ten thousand bitcoin

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Speaker 1: for uh a seventeen dollars pizza, right, you know, so

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Speaker 1: with silk Roads suddenly creating a reason for a wider

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Speaker 1: number of people to engage with this all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: and a bunch of people who are like who are

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Speaker 1: coming in to bitcoin and are like, I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: like they look up the instructions for how to mine

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Speaker 1: it and they're like, I'm not going to do that,

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Speaker 1: and so they just go on Mount Gox and they

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Speaker 1: buy bitcoin using normal money and create a connection that

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Speaker 1: the FBI ultimately uses to all right, getting off track then,

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Speaker 1: but they come in and they're just like, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going I'm not gonna mine it myself. That sounds like

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Speaker 1: a waste of my time and energy. I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: buy it, and then I'm gonna go on Silk Road

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna buy the drugs I want, and then

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Speaker 1: I'll get the drugs and then I've got what i

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Speaker 1: want and I can move on with my life. That

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Speaker 1: moment is what creates a market for coin itself, And

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the price jumps, and because it

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Speaker 1: was so low originally, because we were talking about like

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Speaker 1: like okay, you you could mine like thousands of this stuff.

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Speaker 1: When the price suddenly like jumps from a tenth of

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Speaker 1: a cent to a dollar. Right, that person who got

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Speaker 1: in early did in fact just make a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: assuming that they didn't lose it all to Mount Cox.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting how suddenly this is mainstream. Suddenly we have

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Speaker 2: people that are like these kind of leaders in the

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Speaker 2: space that people are projecting like what onto.

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Speaker 4: Well, who were they? Who was driving it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is where it gets complicated. So one of

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Speaker 1: the so the like initial leader of bitcoin is a pseudonym.

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Speaker 1: Uh oh, I'm going to get it wrong.

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Speaker 4: Uh, Satoshi, I believe you no matter what you say.

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Speaker 1: So No, the thing is is that my instinct is

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Speaker 1: to say Satoshi Cone, but that is a filmmaker.

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Speaker 3: Wait, can I look it up bitco SATs Knakamoto.

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Speaker 1: That's it, right, Nah? Knakamoto named after Knakamoto Towers from

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Speaker 1: Diehard because these people.

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Speaker 4: Are cute dorks.

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Speaker 1: Sosi Knakamoto is a pseudonym for a still anonymous initial

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Speaker 1: developer of bitcoin. You published the white paper in the

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Speaker 1: initial mining software and then kind of disappeared, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of speculation about who it actually is. But

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Speaker 1: it's kind of irrelevant because the fact that it was

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Speaker 1: this pseudonymous developer who then like vanished into the ether.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, is that tantalizing?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Okay, Q would eventually take a lot of cues, a

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Speaker 1: lot of cues from it. But yeah, so that was

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Speaker 1: a really tantalizing narrative that it's like, oh we have

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Speaker 1: It's like, hey, here's this new technology, this new money,

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Speaker 1: and it has this really interesting, mysterious origin story because

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Speaker 1: the guy who did it nobody knows who he really is.

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Speaker 4: He's like a digital cowboy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Also, I like that the whole thing also has this

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Speaker 2: which we see in cults a lot, you know, this

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Speaker 2: need being met, this meaning being given to it, which

439
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: is also not only are we going to make money,

440
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: but this is going to overthrow a very correct system.

441
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: Yes, and all of this is very like, you know,

442
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: none of this is happening in a vacuum, Like you said,

443
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: Satoshi Nakamoto is named after Diehard, right, Like these people

444
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: are not like they're not unaware of what they're doing

445
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: or the way that they exist in. They are aware

446
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: that like people kind of thirst for these narratives, and

447
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: they are aware that like doing it in this way

448
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 1: is going to be good marketing is going to be tantalizing,

449
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: And so that mysterious origin. It's like, okay, it's like

450
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: a it's got a mysterious origin. Well, it doesn't really

451
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: have a mysterious origin. It has a constructed mystery.

452
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 4: Mm oh god. Yeah.

453
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 3: So leader disappears, drugs being sold.

454
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: Drugs being sold. All of a sudden, you have a

455
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,199
Speaker 1: you have a non bitcoin audience buying bitcoin, which is

456
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: causing the price to go up, which is creating Bitcoin millionaires,

457
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: which then creates a narrative of bitcoin is a place

458
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: that you can you can buy in and become a

459
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: millionaire because the price might just all of a sudden

460
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: thousand cks, ten thousand cks whatever, Like hey, look at

461
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: this line on this graph. It it just does, it

462
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: just goes up.

463
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it becomes an MLM.

464
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 2: It becomes an MLM for men so quickly, like the

465
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 2: heyhun movement, but only it's like hey, bro.

466
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 4: To mye.

467
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 1: You get in early on bitcoin, Yeah, kidling out thousand.

468
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 3: Cs the capitalists, the people.

469
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: And also it so quickly creates a community where I

470
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 2: don't know if this was like some four Chan thing

471
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: that they did on purpose, where it's like isolated young

472
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: men suddenly have a community where they're saying good morning

473
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 2: and good night every single day to each other, and

474
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 2: there are there is a ritual involved in it.

475
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: So out of this explosion, so bitcoin, you know, orders

476
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: of magnitude increases, creates this narrative of like this is

477
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: this is a gold mine, you know, this is a

478
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 1: rich vein. But other people start jumping. You get an

479
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: initial wave of people who are creating, who are taking

480
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: the core of bitcoin, the technological core of bitcoin, and

481
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: sort of spinning it off in different directions. Some of

482
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: them are trying to fix what they see as mistakes

483
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: with Bitcoin and like improve it technologically. Others are just

484
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: trying to make lightning strike twice. And the thing is

485
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: is that because it's just it's just basically a software

486
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: package that you can download and just start running, these

487
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: become incredibly easy to spin off, and all of a

488
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: sudden you've got two cryptocurrencies, ten cryptocurrencies, one hundred cryptocurrencies,

489
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: a thousand cryptocurrencies, ten thousand cryptocurrencies in a very very

490
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: short period of time. And then it suddenly becomes this

491
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: game of like, okay, which ones are going to be

492
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: the ones that are going to ten thousand X? Which

493
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: ones are going to be the ones that are going

494
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: to go from penny stock to like a dollar, and

495
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: that then creates a market for tea leaf readers, fortune tellers,

496
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: guys who are going to tell you how to read

497
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: the market and how to predict which ones you should

498
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: be buying into. So now you've got a conventional economy

499
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: getting layered over top. You then get these pseudo communities

500
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: of people trying to guess the future and read where

501
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: things are going the financial all of the pre existing

502
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: habits of penny stock traders and just general day traders,

503
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: gambling addicts, stock gambling addicts. They all rush in because

504
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: it's everything that they're used to, everything that they love about,

505
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: you know, buying cmkm and losing all their money, and

506
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: it's all that and even less regulated. There is no

507
00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: one from the FTC coming and saying like, hey, you're

508
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: not allowed to lie to people.

509
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 3: Right in your in your film, you say, and this

510
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: might be NFTs specifically, so you're going to have to

511
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 3: kind of delineate where each ends and begins. But you say,

512
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 3: the primary product of NFTs was hype, And is that

513
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: true of cryptocurrencies as well? Like do they do well

514
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 3: because people think they're going to do well?

515
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 4: Is that how it works by and large.

516
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, yeah it is. It is cryptocurrencies are overwhelmingly

517
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: driven by themselves and a narrative about themselves. And you

518
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: could say the same about like stocks economies as well.

519
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: So that's not a that's not a unique criticism. And

520
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: I made that argument in another video specifically about game

521
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: Stop and that. You know, you could say that every

522
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: stock is a meme stock in some degree because it

523
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: is ultimately driven by a narrative that a company can

524
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,239
Speaker 1: tell about itself, and maybe that narrative is based in

525
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: a reality of like, hey, we are actually doing really well,

526
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: and maybe it's based in well, ten years from now,

527
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: we might run the world.

528
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: Right.

529
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 3: I am learning this from Industry, which is my current

530
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 3: show obsession.

531
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 4: I have no idea about the financial world.

532
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 3: Again, I understand about thirty percent of what they're talking about,

533
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 3: but I'm here for the drama.

534
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 4: Have you seen it?

535
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: No?

536
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 4: Oh my god, it's so good.

537
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: Anyway, A lot of the storylines on that show have

538
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 3: to do with like convincing the public that their company

539
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 3: is the one to invest in, or like trying to

540
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 3: save their company from their reputational damage or whatever in

541
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 3: order to not fail in the stock market.

542
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 4: So I don't know shit about this shit, but it's

543
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 4: a good show.

544
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, So cryptocurrencies are just basically a narrative about themselves,

545
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: like that becomes the dominant thing by like twenty fifteen.

546
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: All of them are just being driven by this narrative like, well,

547
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: it might ten thousand times in price, it might ten

548
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: thousand x in value, and if you buy in twenty

549
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,719
Speaker 1: fifteen and at ten thousand x's in twenty eighteen, you

550
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: get to retire in twenty nineteen.

551
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 3: Right, So yes, okay, So now we're at the part

552
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 3: where people are coming in and being like this is

553
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 3: the one. Don't you want to put your faith in

554
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 3: this one?

555
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 4: And these are now NFTs.

556
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: Around this point twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. NFTs first start

557
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: sort of like nucleating, and then they become the thing

558
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one.

559
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 3: Nucleating is a great word. Can you explain what NFTs

560
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 3: are to the nube?

561
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: So the underlying technology of bitcoin works off of a

562
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: confirmation mechanism called blockchain, which is just a way for

563
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: a bunch of distributed computers to all agree on what

564
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: a central ledger actually says. Well, then, and there's reasons

565
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: for that and they're legitimate, like this is this is

566
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: itself based off as something called a mercle chain, which

567
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: or a mercle tree, which is like these sort of

568
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: like this is a bit like saying it's like, well,

569
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: human bones are built out of calcium, right, and it's like,

570
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of things are built out of calcium.

571
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: There's nothing, there's nothing, sort of like unto I try

572
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: to be I try to be very fair and say

573
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: there's like, okay, like there are technological elements here that

574
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: like you will see parts of all over the place.

575
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: And I think that's important to inoculate because it's very

576
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: easy for people to talk about blockchain and bitcoin and

577
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: NFTs like their magic, right, like the incomprehensible thing that

578
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: just like that came out of another dimension and there

579
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: care and it's like, well, no, it is built out

580
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: of the same boring stuff as everything else. It is

581
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: made out of matter, it is made out of programming.

582
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: It is made out of mathematical concepts that you'll find

583
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: all over the place in various forms.

584
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 3: And the basic premise is just you can trace everything

585
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: that happened, like every transaction basically like it's baked in.

586
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: Yes, because you've got this whole network of computers that

587
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: have this protocol that they use to agree with one

588
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: another what the whole network should say. So it's like

589
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: what is the state of the machine. So rather than

590
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: having a centralized authority that's like hey, everybody, here's the

591
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: state of the machine, it's kind of this distributed machine

592
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: going like hey, everybody, let's all get together and will

593
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 1: will communicate and decide through a consensus mechanism of one

594
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: form or another what the state of the machine is.

595
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 3: Now.

596
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: In Bitcoin's case, the consensus mechanism is burn a lifetime's

597
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: households worth of electricity in and other cryptocurrencies figured out

598
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: other ways of doing it that have their own problems

599
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: but are less immediately destructive.

600
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 2: Right right, like we run on dolphins. Like that's how

601
00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 2: equal some of it gets.

602
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so an NFT is just that. It's like,

603
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: if you already have this ledger that's just entries, well,

604
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: what if rather than what if you made one of

605
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: those entries represent a thing like what if my bank statement?

606
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: What if I could have my bank also keep track

607
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: of how many miles I ran today?

608
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 4: Right?

609
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: What if I could just have it have my step

610
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: counter in there, what if I could sync my step

611
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: counter to my bank account because the bank's already it's

612
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: already dealing in numbers. That's all it deals in. Is

613
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: just like long, long, long lines of numbers. So you

614
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: can sort of see the logic here of like, well,

615
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: we could just use we could just use this thing

616
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: that's already just a giant list of stuff, and instead

617
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 1: of that stuff being exclusively transactions, we could make that

618
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: stuff a thing. We could have it point to something,

619
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: we could we could put other things in that.

620
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 4: List, like a piece of digital art, for example.

621
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so those you end up with this NFT,

622
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: which is a token that isn't a bitcoin or an

623
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: ethereum in this case because NFTs really emerge on the

624
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: Ethereum network. Rather than being an f this token is

625
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: a indivisible hypertext reference. It's a link, and what's on

626
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: the other side of that link could be anything, okay,

627
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: And in most cases it was a jpeg.

628
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 3: Right right, And some, as you say in your video

629
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 3: in your film, very bad JPEGs, like almost exclusively like

630
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 3: very stupid art.

631
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: Very right, yes, because they're.

632
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 4: Easy to make, right right.

633
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 3: There was a person I know who I work with

634
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 3: sometimes who is trying okay, Megan, who was trying to

635
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 3: get me to participate and create an FTS that they

636
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 3: would share ownership with in. And I remember them sending

637
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 3: me to the I think it was they were showing

638
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 3: me the party eight Billionaire Club.

639
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: Oh sweet.

640
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 4: I was like, this.

641
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 3: Self, that much money. It's crazy looking. How much money

642
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 3: were these selling for?

643
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 1: In the high profile cases, most of which were astroturfed

644
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: in the hype version, in the mythological version, tens of millions.

645
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 4: Of dollars okay, and in the real version.

646
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: In the real version, most of the very high profile things,

647
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: most of the very high profile transactions were the product

648
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: of business arrangements.

649
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 4: Same more about that, Yeah.

650
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: You know, like you would you dig into one and

651
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: you'd be like, like, oh, so and so paid twenty

652
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: million dollars for this piece. But then you find out

653
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: that the artists and the buyer are co investors working together,

654
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: are co founders of a digital art gallery. Ok that

655
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: this thing is in theory going to be displayed in

656
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: And you're like, wait, where did this money actually come

657
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: from and where is it actually going? Was this like

658
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: was this price agreed on beforehand? Like what's actually going

659
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: on here? Like it just wound up being very circular.

660
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: A lot of it was also like a lot of

661
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: it was illusory in the way that you have. Remember

662
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: Bitcoin could be mined. You could mine a thousand in

663
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: a day at one point, well, the same was true

664
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: with etheroreum. There was an early point where you could

665
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,479
Speaker 1: mine a thousand in a day. You could mine ten

666
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 1: thousand in a week. So you have these people who

667
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: had got in in early and have this vast sum

668
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: of in theory dollar exchangeable ethereum but has never actually

669
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: been exchange for dollars, okay, And if they were to

670
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: try and cash it out, it would just crush the

671
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: network and it would cause a like it would cause

672
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: a collapse, It would cause a like bank run, and

673
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: the whole thing would fall apart. So they've got nothing.

674
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: It is unspendable. It is in theory wealth, but it

675
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: is unspendable, right, And so they can afford to then like, yeah,

676
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: sure I've got I've got five million dollars of ethereum

677
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: that is otherwise unspendable. I might as well buy a

678
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 1: boord ape with.

679
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 4: It, okay, right. And those were the height of the.

680
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: Those are the ones that were on Jimmy Kimmel.

681
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, the picassas, so to speak.

682
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: But what interests me in particular about this time was that, like,

683
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 2: I'm one of those girls who was really into manifesting,

684
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: and like, you know, I had my tarot cards and

685
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 2: my whatever, and it was weird. I'm not trying to

686
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 2: be binary of like guy girl, guy girl, but it

687
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: was weird for me as a girl to see my

688
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: guy friends suddenly be very superstitious, very.

689
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 3: Into positive, very yes this man's tarot cards.

690
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you said, Tea Lee for it was just

691
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 2: a very culty thing.

692
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 4: Can can you say more about that?

693
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: So I've gotten very even more interested lately in like

694
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 1: the the history of fortune telling and the various ways

695
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: that cultures over the years have have had for fortune telling.

696
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: And so yeah, no, there were veins of that already.

697
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: So you get what is called prosperity gospel, you get

698
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,799
Speaker 1: the secret, you get the power of positive thinking. You know,

699
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: those sort of veins of like that. That hyper macho

700
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: version of manifesting was kind of always there in various forms,

701
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 1: you know, like a Wolf of Wall Street Belfort, Jordan Belfort,

702
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: you know, he was using those that language in the

703
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: in the nineties to scam people. And you can go

704
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: back even further and further and further, like Ponzi, uh

705
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 1: the name of a Ponzi scheme, you know, used it

706
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: in the early twentieth century. So there has kind of

707
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: always been this like feminine and masculine versions of the narrative.

708
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: The reason why they oh, man, sorry, I'm gonna get

709
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: super scattered here, because boy does this go off in

710
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: a lot of interesting directions, Because it's like, because there

711
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: is a there is a gendered element to it that

712
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,399
Speaker 1: is that is undeniable. But like you have this manifesting

713
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: narrative that has cropped up in various forms throughout history,

714
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: and it's sort of this low lying hum and it

715
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 1: has these gendered manifestations. But then all of a sudden,

716
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: crypto they converge in a sort of way or like

717
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: they cross over. You end up with a lot of

718
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: the previously feminine language being applied to the masculine expression, right,

719
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: And that was fascinating. But also like I am not

720
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: I am not equipped to just like pull off the

721
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: top of my head accurate well founded claims about it

722
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: beyond like yes, I totally know what you saw, and

723
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: I saw it too, but so so all of these. Yeah,

724
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: this manifesting language, prosperity, gospel, power of positive thinking, you know,

725
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: fortune telling. The thing that made NFTs unavoidable and the

726
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: thing that made them so infuriating to many people was

727
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: the fact that basically every single expression of manipulative language

728
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: got employed and unloaded at industrial scale simultaneously. And when

729
00:42:55,640 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: you suddenly have this cadre of people like who have

730
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: self identified around this this hobby, uh, and they're just

731
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: spewing a relentless wave of you just gotta manifest You

732
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,479
Speaker 1: just gotta think, right, bro, you just.

733
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 2: Gotta It's not a hobby, it's an identity now, you

734
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 2: know at this point, And I like some of the acronyms,

735
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 2: if I may a few d fud.

736
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: Yeah that one, that one is a history classic, like

737
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 1: that one goes back way before uh oh really, oh,

738
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: way way before NFTs.

739
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:36,240
Speaker 4: Yet what's the origin?

740
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: Uh no, one really knows. Somewhere in the twentieth century,

741
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 1: but it just it's an acronym for fear, uncertainty, and

742
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: doubt and uh yeah no, because like the thing is,

743
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 1: I referenced this earlier that like penny stocks, penny stocks

744
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: used to be this really really niche form of gambling

745
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: that was you kind of had to do the hard

746
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: way because you have to like actually fill out papers

747
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: and like mail them.

748
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 4: Oh no.

749
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: And then and then in the nineties, all of a

750
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: sudden you get like outfits like Jordan Belfort, like his

751
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: whole thing was penny stock scams, you know, pumping and

752
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: dumping penny stocks. You pick, you pick a company, you

753
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: spind a narrative about like, oh, yeah, they're going to

754
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 1: hundred x anytime now, they're going to shoot from point

755
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: zero one cents per share up to you know, we've

756
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: got I heard a rumor that there's going to be

757
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: a buyout for a dollar twenty five a share, so

758
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 1: you should give me ten thousand dollars in all. Yeah.

759
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 3: Right, So it creates this culture where because it does

760
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 3: operate on faith to some extent. Yeah, it's they're kind

761
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 3: of not wrong in a way when saying that you

762
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 3: can't doubt because.

763
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 4: That will make it not work.

764
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 3: But that's not really what they mean, right, It's more

765
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 3: like it's because.

766
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: It's these it's these two things. It's that it's like

767
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: that that if bitcoin, if crypto, if nft ease, if

768
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: this penny stock. If the main thing that's going to

769
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: cause them to go from point zero one cents up

770
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: to a dollar twenty five is an influx of people

771
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: who heard a story right and jump on. Yeah, that's

772
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: going to be the actual driver of that change. Well,

773
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: you need that story. And so anything that you do that,

774
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: like any fear, any uncertainty, any doubt, undermines that narrative.

775
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,280
Speaker 4: Right, that's so interesting.

776
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 2: And if you do have doubt, there's h FSP have fun,

777
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 2: stay poor.

778
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 4: Yeah and I do.

779
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know people coming up with some doubts, Yeah,

780
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 2: that salt would hurt my feelings. Oh same, Yeah, I'd

781
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: be like, oh damn, I need to get back on

782
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 2: one of the other things. They would say, it's to

783
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,919
Speaker 2: the moon. That means like it's going to explode. Also,

784
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 2: wagm I was it. We're all going to make it,

785
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 2: We're all going to make it or nag me not?

786
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: And what was paper hands?

787
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 1: Paper hands is somebody who who doesn't have confidence. Like, so,

788
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: if you're holding a thing, and if this thing, if

789
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: this thing represents the investment and that investment is volatile,

790
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: you know, if it's something that that you look at

791
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: the graph and it's just like shooting up and down

792
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: and up and down and up and down twenty times

793
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: a day. That's kind of scary. That's scary volatility. But

794
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: if the belief is that this thing will over time

795
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,280
Speaker 1: do the Bitcoin thing, it's going to go from point

796
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: zero one up to ten thousand dollars, then you need

797
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: to have the You need to have the diamond hands.

798
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: You need to have these rock hard hands that are

799
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: necessary to hold on tight as long as it takes

800
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: for that transformation to happen. And if you get spooked

801
00:46:55,600 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: by the volatility and let go early, you got paper hands.

802
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 4: Oh oh man, this is biblical. I like, this skill

803
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 4: is so this is a religion.

804
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 3: But it made it like and all of it makes sense,

805
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 3: Like everything you're describing. I'm like, yeah, you do have

806
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 3: to hold on to your investments through the volatility of

807
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 3: the market, like and yeah, you do have to have

808
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 3: faith because if you all collectively stop having faith, then

809
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 3: it will lose its value.

810
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 4: Like it all makes sense.

811
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 3: But then what actually happens is it starts to create

812
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 3: this like insular culture where you are kind of ostracized.

813
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 4: If you do indicate any sign of doubt.

814
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it develops the language for policing, because you know,

815
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 1: for policing language, for policing belief, for policing participation, because

816
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: so much of it is writing on only the narrative.

817
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: So if we're talking about a company like Apple and

818
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: we're looking at like, okay, what do we think apple

819
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: stock is going to do next year? And we can

820
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: argue until we're blue in the face about whether we

821
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: think it's going to go up or down, and maybe

822
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 1: we'll be right, but like, we've got all of these

823
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: things that we can we can grasp onto. Here was

824
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: their previous quarter results, here was like this thing, and

825
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 1: all of that narrative that we're building in theory filters

826
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: down at some point to customers have gone into a

827
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: store and exchanged dollars for products. When you get into

828
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 1: these meme stocks, when you get into crypto, when you

829
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: get into NFTs, that interaction doesn't exist. It isn't there,

830
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 1: and so all you have is this narrative. And so

831
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,800
Speaker 1: it's all in on buoying up the narrative. You can't

832
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: point to something else and be like, well, they had

833
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: a really strong fourth quarter, and I believe it's like

834
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: and they've got this new chip, like they just you know,

835
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: they just debuted the new chip. It hasn't made it

836
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: into it hasn't made it into a product yet, but

837
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: it's going to actually be like really power efficient. And

838
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: so I think they're gonna be able to make good

839
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: on their promises to like double battery life and people

840
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: are gonna want that. I think that's a future people.

841
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: You know, you can't have that argument. You just have

842
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: to throw to like the nebulous future of like, well,

843
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: it is. It is the way of the future. It

844
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 1: is the new normal. Commerce is just going to happen

845
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: via bitcoin.

846
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 4: Now we're going to leave part one there for now.

847
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 3: Come back for part two next week for more crypto discussion.

848
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 3: And Megan, it's the time of the episode where I

849
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 3: ask you the question, and of course, yay, I must know.

850
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 4: Would you join the crypto cult? Oh yeah, I mean,

851
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 4: like I said, I'm trying. I tried.

852
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 2: I made an investment a couple years ago when the

853
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 2: tech ee boys in my life were telling me to

854
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: do it, and I'm so glad I didn't convince anyone

855
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,919
Speaker 2: else to do it, because I almost did. And those

856
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 2: people had some real money that they were gonna play with,

857
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 2: and so that would have been a travesty if they

858
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 2: lost it. Yeah, I'm very into overthrowing our current system

859
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 2: of money and corruption, and I'm very susceptible to there's

860
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 2: a new way to do it.

861
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 4: So of course that always comes.

862
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 2: With a shadow side, and we learn that over and

863
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 2: over and over again. But yeah, I'm susceptible to crypto,

864
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,439
Speaker 2: but I don't think I really am anymore. I think Dan,

865
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 2: I think he got through to me.

866
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,839
Speaker 3: You know, there were like two years where I had

867
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 3: enough money to maybe invest in something.

868
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 4: We are not there anymore, but.

869
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 3: There were like fires, and I kept intending to invest

870
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm gonna do that.

871
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:48,439
Speaker 4: I'm gonna do that, and.

872
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 3: I my procrastination, honestly is what saved me. If I

873
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 3: were more on top of shit all the time, I

874
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 3: fully would have lost a bunch of money.

875
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 4: So let's be grateful for that.

876
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would own like five weird ape I left

877
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 2: tease totally. Yeah, I mean, honestly, there is something to

878
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 2: be grateful about about not having enough money to do

879
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 2: weird chit when you're younger.

880
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd love to have money to do some other

881
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:16,919
Speaker 3: weird shit.

882
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 4: But you know, we'll get there. We'll get truly We'll

883
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:19,919
Speaker 4: get there.

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00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 2: As always, thank you so much for joining us for

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00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 2: another episode of Trust Me.

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00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 4: We loved having you.

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00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 2: Please come again next week Greatest Live Stars if you

888
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 2: want to, No big deal, and as always, remember to

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00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 2: follow your gut, watch out for red flags.

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00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 4: And never ever trust me beg.

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00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 3: This has been an exactly right production hosted by me

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00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 3: Lo La Blanc and.

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00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 2: Me Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Gee Holley.

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00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,720
Speaker 4: This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

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00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker

896
00:51:58,280 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 2: is Patrick Kuttner.

897
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 4: Song was composed by Holly Ambert.

898
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 2: Church Trust Me as executive produced by Karen Kilgareth Georgia

899
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 2: Hartstark and Daniel Kramer.

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00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 3: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me podcast

901
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 3: or on TikTok at trust Me Cult Podcast.

902
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 2: Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, our manipulation,

903
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 2: Shoot us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

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00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 3: Listen to trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts.