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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,

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Speaker 1: and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there.

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Speaker 1: So this is stuff you should know. Yes, how you doing, Chuck?

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Speaker 1: Do I look tired? You seem a little a little

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Speaker 1: LOGI tired? Man? What's going on with you? I've just

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Speaker 1: been waking up like too early for no reason. Going

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Speaker 1: to bed too late though, because if you go to

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Speaker 1: bed early and wake up early, you're fine. Well, going

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Speaker 1: to bed late sometimes not getting enough sleep then going

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Speaker 1: trying to go to bed super early to make up

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Speaker 1: for it. But I don't know about this making up

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Speaker 1: for a sleep depisode. I don't buy all that. I

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Speaker 1: feel like we talked about it before that there's that

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Speaker 1: that that doesn't actually work. Yeah, I'm just tired, It's

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Speaker 1: all I can say. Sorry, man, Sorry, I'll live. But hey,

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Speaker 1: we're about to fly to Denver and that will correct

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Speaker 1: all those ills. Yeah, that'll definitely um make you catch

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Speaker 1: up with your sleep. Yeah, immediately that they being in

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Speaker 1: a different time zone two hours later for sure. But

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Speaker 1: a quiet, cool hotel that that'll help. It will help, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad it's gonna be two good shows, Charles, two

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Speaker 1: good shows and three because I am I'm kicking one

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Speaker 1: off the old bucket list venue wise and going to

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Speaker 1: a show at Red Rocks Friday. Who are you going

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Speaker 1: to see the Avid Brothers? Oh? Wow, that's really something.

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Speaker 1: Don't they wear like pocket chains and stuff? I don't

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Speaker 1: think so okay, Now, I was I was trying to

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Speaker 1: just go to any Red Rock show and if you

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Speaker 1: look at the Red Rocks calendar, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff on there that would not appeal to me at all,

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Speaker 1: a lot of groove jam yeah stuff. And then this

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Speaker 1: aligned with Ava Brothers and it's like, yeah, that's great,

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Speaker 1: I'll take it. That's great. Well, I'm glad it worked

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Speaker 1: out for you. Man, it will be good. I'm on

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Speaker 1: Row seventy of seventy, so I'm on Row seventy as well.

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Speaker 1: Are you going? Now, I'm just teaching. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: if I don't have a heart attack on the way

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Speaker 1: up to Row seventy, it should be Okay. It's supposed

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Speaker 1: to be a cool venue. I've always heard. Yeah, I've

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Speaker 1: been enamored of it since the Sunday Bloody Sunday video

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Speaker 1: when I was a kid. Oh that's right. That was

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Speaker 1: at Red Rocks, wasn't it? Absolutely nice? Well, here's to

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Speaker 1: your bucket list. Thanks and I and I could die

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Speaker 1: on row seventy and at least one thing will have

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Speaker 1: been accomplished. Right, Yeah, you'll have your butt, you'll have

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Speaker 1: your bucket list with you and just the one scratched off.

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Speaker 1: I hate that term anyway. Yeah, it's pretty pretty bad,

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Speaker 1: but I know that's what the people understand. You could

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Speaker 1: call it your death list. That's even better. It's more like,

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Speaker 1: I've got some music venues i'd like to see, and

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Speaker 1: that's one of them. Okay. Some people do that with

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Speaker 1: like baseball stadiums. They go to every baseball Yeah, before

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Speaker 1: they die. I try to go to as many of

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Speaker 1: those as I can. Um when I'm in different towns,

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Speaker 1: for sure. Just when i've been to you want to ask, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Yeah, what was the best one you've been to?

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Speaker 1: Man Pittsburgh? Oh for three rivers, isn't that one? Well?

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Speaker 1: That was the old name. I think it has a

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Speaker 1: different name now. Was that the time when we went

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Speaker 1: and shot those Toyota commercials? Yeah? You went and that

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Speaker 1: was the best baseball stadium we've ever been to. It's gorgeous.

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Speaker 1: What what was so great about it? It's just, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's position right there on the river, and if you

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Speaker 1: have the right seat, you can look out over downtown

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Speaker 1: and see like all those beautiful bridges. It's just lovely. Wow. Okay, cool, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I remember quite clearly. I stayed in my room and

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Speaker 1: gorged myself on chicken sog. It was totally worth missing

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Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh based remember that. It was funny. I hurt

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Speaker 1: myself on that stuff. All right, I'm glad we killed

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Speaker 1: some time before we got into this very mysterious, sad story.

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Speaker 1: It's a good one, though, isn't It is extraordinarily sad,

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Speaker 1: Probably the saddest true I don't know. It's up there

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Speaker 1: as far as true life true crime disappearances go. Um,

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Speaker 1: And it's the one about Gary Matthias, and that's what

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Speaker 1: they call it. They call it the Gary Matthias disappearance.

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Speaker 1: But that really doesn't do it much justice, or it

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Speaker 1: doesn't serve it well, because it was a lot more

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Speaker 1: than Gary Matthias involved. Yeah, I've seen it more so

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Speaker 1: called the Yuba County five. But you know, I guess

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Speaker 1: It just depends on where you're looking. I had not

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Speaker 1: run across that. Yeah, oh god, that makes me wonder

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Speaker 1: what all stuff I missed? Well, you know there were

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Speaker 1: five guys. What so, No, there actually were five guys.

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Speaker 1: There were five friends. Um, Gary Matthias was one of them,

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Speaker 1: and there were four others. There was Ted Weir who

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Speaker 1: was the oldest, he was thirty two. There was Jackie

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Speaker 1: Hewitt he was the youngest, he was twenty four. There

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Speaker 1: was Jack Madruga. Yeah, I'm not sure what age he was,

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Speaker 1: but he was definitely between twenty four and thirty two.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you that narrows it down. Bill Sterling, and

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Speaker 1: then again Gary Matthias and those five guys were a

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Speaker 1: set of friends and they met at the Yuba City

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Speaker 1: UH Vocational Rehabilitation Center for the what you would call today, um,

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Speaker 1: the cognitively impaired or cognitively challenged. Yeah, because three of

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Speaker 1: these guys, UM. Of course, this one article you have

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Speaker 1: from nine seventy eight doesn't use appropriate terms anymore. But

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Speaker 1: three of these guys were intellectually disabled UM or developmentally disabled.

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Speaker 1: Not an exact like it's kind of hard to get

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Speaker 1: an exact DIA diagnosis. From these night terms. Really, but

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Speaker 1: Madruga was undiagnosed, but according to his mom, Uh he

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Speaker 1: was generally thought of, as she said as quote slow

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Speaker 1: end quote. And then Matthias Uh was the only one

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Speaker 1: not diagnosed with a developmental disability, but he was under

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Speaker 1: drug treatment for schizophrenia. Right, So all five of these

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Speaker 1: guys had some sort of challenge going on in their life, right, exactly. So,

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Speaker 1: so there's a lot of details you can kind of

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Speaker 1: glean because you're absolutely right, Like reading the really great

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Speaker 1: Washington Post article, which is basically the comprehensive document on

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Speaker 1: the case from UM, you can kind of glean uh

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Speaker 1: an idea picture of these guys. So they're just five friends,

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Speaker 1: thickest thieves. Even within this this tight little group of friends,

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Speaker 1: there's subgroups of even tighter friends like UM Ted Weir

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Speaker 1: and Jackie Hewitt were particularly close, and Bill Sterling and

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Speaker 1: jack Madrugo were particularly close. UM. They had like they

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Speaker 1: were just these these five guys known as the boys, right,

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Speaker 1: they all lived at home with their parents. They were

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Speaker 1: always going to live at them with their parents. It

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Speaker 1: was just what what the plan was, UM, Like I

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Speaker 1: think Ted ted Weir had a UM had a job

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Speaker 1: Um as a janitor and then later on as a

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Speaker 1: snack bar clerk. Um. Yeah, that was another one. And

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Speaker 1: they actually all played together on the basketball team for

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Speaker 1: the Vocational Rehab Center, basically like they hang out the

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Speaker 1: place where they hung out, they played basketball on that team.

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Speaker 1: But um Jack Madrew Good's worth saying, head a driver's license,

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Speaker 1: whereas three of the other ones didn't, although Gary Mathias

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Speaker 1: did as well. So these guys they just they were friends.

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Speaker 1: They like had a tight kinship together. They had very normal,

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Speaker 1: reliable lives that were basically home centric, and when they

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Speaker 1: were out doing stuff, you could expect them home for

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Speaker 1: dinner kind of thing, like it was just a given. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's that's super worth pointing out here. Early on,

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Speaker 1: as they saw him more than one place, they said,

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Speaker 1: they're referred to their lives as very predictable and scheduled,

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Speaker 1: which is why this interesting. Uh, the events that occurred

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Speaker 1: on February nineteen seventy eight were very very unusual, right,

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Speaker 1: So on February eight, the boys that's what their families

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Speaker 1: all call them, because apparently all their families were at

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Speaker 1: least in touch, if not friendly, with another. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think they kind of supported one another. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: as much as anyone did in ninety eight. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: on this night, February twenty four, there was a Friday

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Speaker 1: night eight um. The boys left their homes around Maryville

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Speaker 1: and Ubas City in California, and they traveled I think

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Speaker 1: about fifty miles north to cal State Chico which is

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Speaker 1: now called Chico State University, and they went to go

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Speaker 1: see their team. The cal State l A team beat

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Speaker 1: up on cal State Chico, and cal State l A

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Speaker 1: actually won eighty four, which would have pleased the boys tremendously. Sure,

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Speaker 1: so they went to the game. That much as known,

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Speaker 1: and then they left the game that much as known too,

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Speaker 1: because around ten o'clock when they left the game, they

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Speaker 1: went to a convenience store called Bears Market and they

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Speaker 1: bought some stuff. Yeah, apparently that they were trying to

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Speaker 1: kind of close up, and so the clerk was a

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Speaker 1: little bit annoyed that they showed up. And these are

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Speaker 1: the kind of details that aren't so important, but it

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Speaker 1: just shows that, you know, they really did their investigating

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Speaker 1: pretty thoroughly, including well, we'll we'll get to sort of

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Speaker 1: the the lead investigator in a minute. But yeah, they

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Speaker 1: bought just a few things. They bought a Hostess cherry pie, um,

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Speaker 1: a Langendorf lemon pie, snickers bar, a Marathon bar, a

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Speaker 1: couple of pepsis, and a court and a half of milk.

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Speaker 1: Which is to say, it's not like they were stocking

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Speaker 1: up on food. They just got some uh, some some snacks,

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Speaker 1: right exactly for the drive back home fifty fifty miles

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Speaker 1: about an hour. Yeah. The thing is is they, um,

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Speaker 1: they would have been fully expected back home, not just

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Speaker 1: because there was you know, this was it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: any of them to spend the night away, right except Matthias.

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Speaker 1: He he had friends and he would stay out with

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Speaker 1: friends sometimes. But um, with the other four like they

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Speaker 1: slipt in their bed at home every night. That's just

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Speaker 1: what they did. So their families fully expected them to

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Speaker 1: come back. Um. And another reason why they expected them

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Speaker 1: to come back was because the next day, Saturday, they

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Speaker 1: had a basketball game for their vocational rehab team, the

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Speaker 1: Gateway Gators, and they they apparently were all extraordinarily excited

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Speaker 1: about this game. Yeah, which again is just another point

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Speaker 1: being made that there was these guys had every intention

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Speaker 1: on coming home super excited about the game. I think

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Speaker 1: Matthias even was kind of driving his mom a little batty, saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, don't let me oversleep. Got this big game.

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Speaker 1: Apparently the guys had their clothes laid out, uh, and

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Speaker 1: they were all super excited about this bast ketball game. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then they don't come home. And you know, these

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Speaker 1: parents and grandparents start waking up at various points in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night or in the morning and

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Speaker 1: start getting in touch with one another, you know, all

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Speaker 1: verifying like your kids not there, Your your kids not there.

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Speaker 1: And they started to freak out, and by eight o'clock

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Speaker 1: that evening, I believe the mother of Madruga actually finally

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Speaker 1: called the cops. Yeah, and the cops, um, we're kind

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Speaker 1: of I don't have the impression that they were like,

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Speaker 1: well this is I'm sure, this is fine. I think

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Speaker 1: they got involved pretty early on. But things really picked

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Speaker 1: up when I think on a Tuesday, that was that

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Speaker 1: was Saturday night that they finally called the cops. And

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday, uh, Jack Madruga's car was discovered, and it

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Speaker 1: was discovered in a very very unusual place. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what was this thing in old Mercury, Montego. Yeah, sixty

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Speaker 1: nine montego A land yacht is what it was. And

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Speaker 1: they found it. Um. And this was, by the way,

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Speaker 1: this is Jack Madruga's prized possession. Like no one else

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Speaker 1: drove the thing. He took pristine care of it. It

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Speaker 1: was like his baby. His car was right so to

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Speaker 1: find it abandoned with the window one of the windows

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Speaker 1: rolled down up a mountain road, which was, um, I think,

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Speaker 1: seventy miles away from the basketball game, in a different

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Speaker 1: direction away from their house. Right, so the basketball game

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Speaker 1: was north of their homes. This was east of southeast

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Speaker 1: of the basketball game and up a mountain road. It

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Speaker 1: was extremely bizarre and also I'm sure quite worrying. When

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Speaker 1: the families were already worried, I think finding this car

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Speaker 1: like this probably really set them into panic mode. Well yeah,

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Speaker 1: and here's where, uh in this article is very clear

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Speaker 1: to say from that point on, nothing made any kind

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Speaker 1: of sense. So here's a few things about the car

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Speaker 1: that definitely don't add up. You might think, all right, there,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was a snowstorm, so they drove up

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Speaker 1: here and they got stuck. Apparently that is not true.

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Speaker 1: The car stopped at about the snow line, and they

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Speaker 1: said they did confirm that the wheels had spun some

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Speaker 1: but the car wasn't stuck, and these five dudes could

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Speaker 1: have pushed it free pretty easily apparently, right, this thing

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Speaker 1: number one. Thing number two is that it had a

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Speaker 1: quarter tank of gas still, so they didn't run out

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Speaker 1: of gas. Right then when the cops hot wired the car,

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Speaker 1: the keys were gone. Uh. And when the cops heartwired

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Speaker 1: the cars started up immediately. There wasn't any engine trouble

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. Yeah. The last thing they found

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Speaker 1: were all these maps of California and um, so it's

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Speaker 1: not like they had no way of knowing where they were.

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Speaker 1: And then they found all the you know, all the

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Speaker 1: rappers from the food items. Uh. The only thing, ironically

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Speaker 1: that wasn't fully eaten was the marathon bar um, living

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Speaker 1: up to his reputation. Right. See, I guess the toughest

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Speaker 1: candy bar to get through. Yeah, that's that's how they

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Speaker 1: build it, some weird cartoon cowboy. Yeah, so you know

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Speaker 1: that's the d of The underside of the car wasn't damaged,

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Speaker 1: which they say was pretty interesting because on this road,

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Speaker 1: apparently there were a lot of deep, deep ruts. This

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Speaker 1: thing kind of hangs low anyway, has a low hanging muffler,

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Speaker 1: has these five dudes inside, these grown men. Uh, And

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Speaker 1: there was no damage under the underside of this car,

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Speaker 1: which means, you know a couple of things if you

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Speaker 1: kind of are surmising, which is the either the driver

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Speaker 1: kind of knew where they were going and drove through

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Speaker 1: the darkness with a lot of precision, or they just

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Speaker 1: maybe drew drove really slow. Yeah, I think it was

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Speaker 1: the ladder because I think Madruga did was probably would

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Speaker 1: have been very unhappy that his car was on this

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Speaker 1: road now. So I just took it slow, and took

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Speaker 1: it super slow. I saw somewhere that there wasn't even

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Speaker 1: a large mud spot on it. It was they had

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Speaker 1: taken it that easy. Yeah, And apparently Madruga uh didn't

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Speaker 1: like the cold, he didn't like camping, so he wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have known that road. It's not like there's a lot

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Speaker 1: else to do up there but that. And evidently, uh,

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Speaker 1: none of the boys were big into outdoorsy type stuff.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a really good point, Chuck. So like

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Speaker 1: that none of them had any connection to that, to

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Speaker 1: that area, and certainly not to that mountain. One of them,

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Speaker 1: I think Sterling. Bill Sterling had been had gone camping

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Speaker 1: with his family there eight years before. Yeah, and he

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Speaker 1: didn't even like I think they went back again and

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Speaker 1: he was like, no, I don't want to go right,

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Speaker 1: So he didn't like the outdoors. He didn't like the cold.

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Speaker 1: And then I think Ted uh, Ted Weir had gone

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Speaker 1: deer hunting or something once with friends way west of

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Speaker 1: the area. Um but still, I mean enough that you

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Speaker 1: could that was it was a lead that the cops

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Speaker 1: would have chased down. Um. But but then too, he

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Speaker 1: didn't enjoy himself and he didn't like the woods either,

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Speaker 1: So there was no let's go hang out in the

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Speaker 1: woods kind of thing going on here. Just everything about

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Speaker 1: the fact that they found this car and where they

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Speaker 1: found it, in the state they found it in was

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Speaker 1: really are and really worrying. Should we take a break?

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Speaker 1: I think we should? Man, all right, you and I

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Speaker 1: are going to go hang out in the woods and

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Speaker 1: we'll be back right after this. So I've never swept

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Speaker 1: the woods before. That was really interesting, right, spicking span

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Speaker 1: out here. So, um, so they find the car, and

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Speaker 1: when they find the car, Chuck, I think it was

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Speaker 1: the next night after they had gone missing, a storm

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Speaker 1: blew into the area and it dumped like almost a

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Speaker 1: foot of snow on the mountain. This is February in

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Speaker 1: the mountains in California. UM, I would guess the Sierras

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Speaker 1: is what it sounds it's like, right, So, yeah, Cheek

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Speaker 1: is in the Chicos in the Sierra Nevadas. I think

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Speaker 1: it's north of Sacramento. So, um, it would be very

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Speaker 1: very cold and the snow would be pretty tough to

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Speaker 1: get through. Um So, but they still tried. They got

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Speaker 1: guys on horseback, they got helicopters out, they looked for him,

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Speaker 1: but they found nothing. They found not one bit of

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Speaker 1: of um and not a single trace of these guys

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Speaker 1: after just the car and that was it. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: snow certainly didn't help anything because it would not be

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Speaker 1: until June. On June four, after this thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: the mountain falls out somewhat when these uh Sunday you

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Speaker 1: know motorcycle bikers, they'll go right around the mountains. They

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Speaker 1: went into an old Forest Service trailer camp at the

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Speaker 1: end of a road and said, do you smell something

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Speaker 1: that smells like perhaps a dead body, And sadly it

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Speaker 1: was Ted Weir. And this is where things get even stranger. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so the I think the trailer caught their attention, But

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Speaker 1: what caught their attention even further was that a window

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Speaker 1: had been broken to get into the trailer. And then, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like you said, what really caught their attention was the

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Speaker 1: smell in the sight of of ted weirds decomposing body.

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Speaker 1: But what got what made it very, very weird, is

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Speaker 1: one he's wrapped in sheets tucked under his head in

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Speaker 1: a way that like he couldn't have possibly tucked himself.

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Speaker 1: So somebody had tucked him in like that, and he

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Speaker 1: ted Weir had been a portly fellow. Um Cynthia Gorney,

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Speaker 1: who wrote the Washington Post article on this this case

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Speaker 1: in calls him, um beer belly handsome, which I've never

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Speaker 1: heard those words put together in my entire life. I

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Speaker 1: think that's what I am. Sure, sure, I call you

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Speaker 1: beer belly foxy. Okay, okay, so um, but he was

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Speaker 1: beer belly handsome. He was. He was a thick guy.

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Speaker 1: He's like five ten two pounds. He had a few

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Speaker 1: extra pounds on him right when they found him, though,

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Speaker 1: he way aid about a hundred and twenty hundred to

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Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty pounds, which means that between the

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Speaker 1: time that they went missing and the time that he died,

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Speaker 1: he'd lost anywhere between eighty and a hundred pounds. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: A couple of more interesting tidbits. He his leather shoes

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Speaker 1: were gone and missing completely. Um. On the little night

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Speaker 1: stand by his bed was his his own ring because

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Speaker 1: it had his name engraved on it. Ted gold Yeah,

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Speaker 1: ted his gold necklace, his wallet with money uh. And

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Speaker 1: then weirdly a watch that was not his. It was

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Speaker 1: a gold Waltham watch that had a missing crystal. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And all of the families said that this No, none

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Speaker 1: of our kids had this watch. So that's one interesting tidbit.

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Speaker 1: And the other is that he had a big, full

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Speaker 1: beard that indicated that he lived in that cabin for

341
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Speaker 1: anywhere from eight to thirteen weeks. And what's really really

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00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 1: underving about the thirteen week one a thirteen week number

343
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 1: is that if he survived thirteen weeks, that means that

344
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,159
Speaker 1: he would have died just days before his body was found.

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Speaker 1: Is that right? Yes? Did you did you do the math?

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00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,640
Speaker 1: I did the math because think about so they disappeared

347
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Speaker 1: on February and he was found June four, So you've

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Speaker 1: got Mark April. I really really hope I call on

349
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 1: the Saints that that not to have been the case,

350
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Speaker 1: like that he perhaps died a couple of days before. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that he he would have expired like like weeks

352
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 1: before that there was just no chance for him, like

353
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Speaker 1: if he was destined and doomed to die. I really

354
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Speaker 1: hope it wasn't a couple of days before they found

355
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Speaker 1: his body after starving for thirteen weeks. Yeah. And to

356
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Speaker 1: cap it off, I don't think we we've mentioned yet,

357
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 1: this cabin was almost twenty miles from their car. Oh yeah,

358
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: so in the middle of the night. Uh. And at

359
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 1: this point, this is this is all we know is

360
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 1: about Ted in our story, he walked or ran almost

361
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Speaker 1: twenty miles in four to six ft snow drifts to

362
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Speaker 1: go to this trailer where he spent the next two

363
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Speaker 1: to three months slowly dying. Yeah. So okay, that's pretty

364
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 1: weird in and of itself. And they found that his

365
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,240
Speaker 1: feet were terribly frost bitten, right, which is why his

366
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Speaker 1: shoes were off. But again his shoes were missing. Um,

367
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: what gets even weirder. And this is just where the

368
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 1: case truly turns. Bizarres, where one of the Yuba County

369
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Speaker 1: Sheriff's deputies are under sheriff called it Bizaar's Hell. Is

370
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 1: like the quote of this story, Um, this this the trailer.

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Speaker 1: The cabin was actually like a forest service trailer, and

372
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Speaker 1: it was an emergency trailer from what I understand. And

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Speaker 1: it was fully stocked with a year's worth of food

374
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Speaker 1: that would have kept all five of those boys alive

375
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Speaker 1: for a year. It was built to keep you alive,

376
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 1: yes exactly. And they found it, but they didn't put

377
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 1: it to you. Let's not to say that they didn't

378
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: find the food. There was. There were twelve rations like

379
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: um sea rations like army meals opened and eaten, But

380
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: that was it. The other stuff wasn't touched. There was

381
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: a whole locker of other dehydrated food and like fruit

382
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: cups and stuff that hadn't been touched at all. Okay,

383
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Speaker 1: and bear in mind, this is all right here while

384
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Speaker 1: Ted ted Weir is starving to death. Yeah, so all

385
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: this food is there. Uh, they found out. The investigators

386
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 1: determined that there had not been a fire built, even

387
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: though there were paperback novels, there was wood, furniture, there

388
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: were matches, like everything was there to build a fire.

389
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: And not only that, but there was a propane tank

390
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,679
Speaker 1: that all they had to do, uh, it was in

391
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 1: another shed outside. All they had to do was open

392
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 1: this thing on and they would have actually had gas heat. Yes,

393
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 1: hate right, they didn't. They also didn't even um cover

394
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 1: up the broken window that they used to get into

395
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: the trailer. It's just weird, just bizarre decision after bizarre decision. Right.

396
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: So there's one other thing in the trailer that that is,

397
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: um pretty interesting. They find Gary Matthias's tennis shoes. So

398
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 1: Gary mathias Is tennis shoes are there and um, Ted

399
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: Weir's shoes leather shoes are missing. Uh. And what they

400
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: think possibly is that Gary Matthias was in the trailer

401
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 1: with Ted. Ted had terrible frostbite. Ted would have had

402
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 1: bigger feet than Gary. Gary probably had frostbite too, so

403
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: he used Ted shoes to put them on and go

404
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: back out into the wilderness. Yeah. I mean they pretty

405
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: much determined that probably all five of those guys were

406
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: in here at one point. Okay, so I have to

407
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: say that that's that's I don't think that's true really

408
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 1: because that's what I saw. So I think so what

409
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: I saw was that they so okay, we should probably

410
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: tell everybody that the we should continue on Chuck. But

411
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: the like, I think a day after they found Ted Weir,

412
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: they started looking around the area and they started finding

413
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: the other boys remains. Yeah, and you know this is

414
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: thanks to what I said would be sort of the

415
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: lead investigator, uh Uba County Lieutenant Lance Ayers, who actually

416
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: had gone to high school with Weird. Uh didn't know

417
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 1: him that well, but he was really consumed by this

418
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: case um and seems sort of obsessed with trying to

419
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: solve it to the point where he was chasing down

420
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 1: leads from psychics. At one point, Yeah, apparently he met

421
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: with a psychic who um I told him that the

422
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: boys were in Araville or had been murdered in a

423
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: red house either brick or stained in Oraville with the

424
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: house number UM either four four seven to three or

425
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: four seven five three. And Lance Ayers was so consumed

426
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: with this that he actually drove every street of Oroville

427
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: over a two day period trying to find that house

428
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: based on the tip of a psychic. That's how obsessed

429
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: he became with this case. Yeah, so we've put a

430
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: pen in our Were they all in the cabin debate.

431
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: We're coming back to that right right, all right, So

432
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 1: now we pick up a story of a man named

433
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: Joseph Shoon's and this is where things get even more odd.

434
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: So this guy was fifty five years old. He got

435
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,479
Speaker 1: in touch with the cops because, you know, some strange

436
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: things that had happened that night with the disappearance. He

437
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: was gonna go camping with his family um on, you know,

438
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: up that road, and so he decided to take his

439
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: little Volkswagen Beetle um around five thirty that evening just

440
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: to check out the snow line to see if it

441
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: was passable and if it was going to be safe

442
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: to take his family camping that weekend. He found out

443
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: it was not. Yeah, he got his his car stuck

444
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 1: right right above the snow line. And this was to

445
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: be about fifty yards further than where that mercury would

446
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: eventually be found. Right, So he has um he gets

447
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: out to push a push his beetle right and has

448
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 1: a heart attack. He's he's fifty five in this night,

449
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,479
Speaker 1: which means he he lived on nothing but scotch and steak.

450
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 1: So you can imagine that that was the outcome, right,

451
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: when you have to push your Volkswagen Beetle And um,

452
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: he's like in a bad spot right there. He's a

453
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: phone in the wilderness at the snow line of a

454
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: mountain eight miles away from help. That the place that

455
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: he had stopped to actually get a drink probably of

456
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: scotch on the way up the mountain to check out

457
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: the snow line had been eight miles back in the

458
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: other direction. So he very wisely like leaves his car

459
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: running with the heater on and just lays there and

460
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: tries to collect himself and gather himself. And that's a

461
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: mild heart attack, we should point out, but enough that

462
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: if you, Joseph shown, you are probably freaking out. I'm

463
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: not trying to uh diminish like his danger level. But

464
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: it wasn't like, uh, he was like laying there near

465
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: like he would eventually hike eight miles out right after

466
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: this heart attack. Yes, so he but but while he

467
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: was laying there trying to like gather his strength again.

468
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: So this happened about five thirty And he said a

469
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: couple hours after that, some um, a car at least

470
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: one but probably two cars, and one of them would

471
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: have been a pickup truck, came up and had their

472
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 1: lights on, and he saw the silhouettes of some men

473
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: and a woman with a baby, and he said he

474
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: called out to them, and they ignored it and turned

475
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: off the lights, and he got back in his car,

476
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: and he said he laid there for another few hours

477
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: before he heard some whistling sounds and some flashlight beams

478
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: a little further down the mountain, probably about fifty yards uh.

479
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: And that would have been a couple of hours, probably

480
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,479
Speaker 1: about five or six hours after his um his heart attack.

481
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: And they think that the second group at least was

482
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: the the five boy with Gary Matthias. Yeah, and well

483
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: I think at this point they were right outside his

484
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: car window. Yeah. So again he gets out calls for help,

485
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: and the whistling sounds stop and the flashlights get turned off,

486
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: and so he goes back in his car and lays

487
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: back down and he's like to two groups of people

488
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: have come up this mountain. I'm having a heart attack here,

489
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: and somehow calling for help has chased both of both

490
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: of them off, both groups off. Yeah. So that that

491
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: Volkswagen Beetle, like I can tell you from experience, out

492
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: of like an eight gallon gas tank. So it eventually

493
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,959
Speaker 1: runs out of gas um it also now they think

494
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: about it doesn't have a very efficient heating system, Like, uh,

495
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: my first Beetle didn't even have a fan. We just

496
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: called it the ankle burner. Like if you when you

497
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: turned on the heat, it literally just opened vents and

498
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: the floorboard that like came straight off the engine. Wow,

499
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: that's that's sharp design. So you wouldn't even like you

500
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: had to be moving for there to be actually a

501
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: hot air running through it. Man. But I do know

502
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: that I had another Beetle that had that did have

503
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: a little fan. So let's just presume that Shans had

504
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 1: the fan. I'm not going to I'm going to presume

505
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: the opposite. Okay, I'm going to presume that this was

506
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: a hellish experience for him in every way. All right.

507
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: So eventually the car runs out of gas. Uh, it's

508
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: still dark and he manages, after this heart attack, like

509
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: I said earlier, to walk eight miles to a lodge

510
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: called the Mountain House. Is that where he had gotten

511
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: the drink? Yeah? Alright, So he comes back and they're

512
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: like Showans, and he's like, don't shoons me. You have

513
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: no idea what I've been through. Uh. It turns out

514
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: it's pretty serious. And on the way out he passes

515
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: this Montego sitting empty in the middle of the road,

516
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: about fifty yards further down the mountain behind his car

517
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: where he stopped at the snow line. That's right. So

518
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: Showance doesn't think much of this. He just is like, Okay, well,

519
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: there's a car in the middle of the road the

520
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: snow lines here. I'm not the only when I got

521
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: stuck last night. Those guys are jerks for not coming

522
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: to my aid when I shouted for help. And he

523
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: he doesn't think much of it until all of a sudden,

524
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: on the news he starts seeing these reports of these

525
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: five guys who went missing the same night that he

526
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: had his heart attack on the same road, in the

527
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:20,479
Speaker 1: same mountain, and he came forward and the cops figured

528
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: out like that Joseph Shoes was probably the last person

529
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: to see those five guys alive. Uh. Well, yeah, they're

530
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: silhouettes at least. Yeah. Uh should we take a break,

531
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: I think so. Man, all right, we're gonna take a

532
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: break and get to some more uh sad discoveries right

533
00:30:38,120 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: after this. Okay, we're back, Chuck, we are you promise

534
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 1: more sad Discoveries lay it on him. Alright. So the

535
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: next day, after Weird's body had been found, you know,

536
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: the search is really on at this point. Uh. They

537
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: found a few things. They found the remains of Sterling

538
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,239
Speaker 1: and Madruga there on different sides of the road. Uh,

539
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: that same road that led to the trailer, but about

540
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,719
Speaker 1: eleven and a half miles from the car, right, so

541
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: presumably another what nine miles from the trailer, yes, which

542
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: is why I think that they never made it to

543
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: the trailer. Put it been in that okay. Uh. Madruga

544
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: had very gruesomely been partially eaten by animals, of course

545
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: up there on the mountains, probably after he had died though, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

546
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: I think it sounds like all of this was they

547
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: succumbed to nature, and then the animals kind of took

548
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: it from there, right. Uh. So they drawed his body

549
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: to a stream. He was laying their face up, they said,

550
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: with his hand curled around his watch. And then Sterling

551
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: was in the woods and very gruesomely they said that

552
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: his remains were, or his bones I guess, were scattered

553
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: over about fifty ft yes. And then I think a

554
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: day or so after that there was another search party

555
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: that was launched and Jackie Hewitt's father insisted on being

556
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: a part of it, and Jackie Hewitt was still missing,

557
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: and very sadly, his dad was the one who discovered

558
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: his remains. He found, um, his sons. I think spine

559
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: is what he came upon. Yeah, in the same road,

560
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: a lot closer to the trailer though, but he right,

561
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: like just a quarter mile or something, right, Uh yeah,

562
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: I think that's about right, something very very close to it.

563
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: And they also found, um, his his clothes. They knew

564
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: it was him because he was His levies and his

565
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: shirt were also found nearby, and so were um. He

566
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: was wearing very stylish platform shoes called get There's which

567
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: I had to look up and they were actually pretty fresh. Yeah.

568
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: Not not in the kind of shoes that you want

569
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: to be hiking around the snowy woods in No, definitely not.

570
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: I mean again, platform shoes. They're like, um, you know

571
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: that that uh that rubbery sold thing that like you

572
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: find on like Clark's like Clark Wallabyes, like the thick

573
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: rubbery so I think it's called crepe sold They were

574
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: like those, but platform shoes and and like a rippley bottom.

575
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: Yeah probably look at these things. Yeah, they're probably the worst,

576
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: the worst hiking shoes you could ever imagine what these

577
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: would be good for actually catching ladies? Probably right, And

578
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: I guess I mean they're pretty they're pretty cool. That

579
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: that wavy soul though, looks so strange. Well I look

580
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: that up. It's it's to keep your center of balance

581
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: when you're way up there. Okay, yeah, well that makes

582
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: more sense then. Yeah, there were there was a lot

583
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: of thought put into those shoes. Uh. And then finally

584
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: the next day there was a skull discovered about a

585
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: hundred yards downhill, and that was the final remains from

586
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: Jackie Hewitt. So they found everybody, everybody that is, except

587
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: for Gary Mathias. He was still missing. Yeah, and he's

588
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 1: he still is actually if you go on the Uba

589
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's website on their missing person's page, he's still

590
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: listed there. Yeah, his shoes were inside again and that

591
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: trailer um which you know that They can't say anything

592
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: for sure, though, but it suggests that he was in

593
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: there at one point, and they surmised that he may have,

594
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: like you said, taken them off to where the leather

595
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: shoes guests, presumably because they were warmer or his feet

596
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: were frost bitten and had swollen, so he needed the

597
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: bigger shoes. UM to strike out back outside like he was,

598
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: He was like, I can't go out there barefoot, and

599
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: I can't get my tennis shoes on any longer. Yeah,

600
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: And so to deal with Matthias, like we said, he

601
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: was under treatment for schizophrenia. UM. He was in the

602
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 1: army in Germany, and apparently Um had occasions post war

603
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,720
Speaker 1: where he had become violent. He was charged with assault

604
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: a couple of times. But UM all accounts say that

605
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: for the at least the last two years he had

606
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: really been on his meds. He had been working in

607
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: his stepdad's business. He was They called him one of

608
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: the our sterling success cases, as doctor did. Yeah, and

609
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: they were really, you know, he was really coming around

610
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: and hadn't had any what is his dad he said,

611
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: he called them haywire episodes. Ye hadn't had one of

612
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: those in in a in a couple of years. And

613
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: the stepfather said that he had. He had been taking

614
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 1: his meds the week he disappeared, right, and his stepfather

615
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: would know because his stepfather owned a gardening business and

616
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: um Gary Mathias had been working with him side by

617
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: side for a couple of years by that time. So

618
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: he he also didn't seem like one to really mince

619
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: words or bs. So I take him for his word

620
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: that his his son was fully medicated and his schizophrenia

621
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: was under control. It sounds like so. Um. The problem

622
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: is is he hadn't taken his pills with him. So

623
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: if he did survive, Um, he did, he had he

624
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: had gone without him. He left him at home. And

625
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: the reason why he left him at home is because

626
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: he fully expected to be back home a couple of

627
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: hours after he left for the basketball game. Yeah, no

628
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: more evidence that, Like, it's just really bizarre that they

629
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: went anywhere but home, and that raised a lot of

630
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: questions for the families. Um. Back in the day, the

631
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: I think Madruga's mom, Mabel was very vocal about her

632
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 1: belief that, um, somebody had either tricked or threatened her

633
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,240
Speaker 1: son and the other boys into going up that mountain

634
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: or um, somebody else was was responsible for for this

635
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: series of decisions. Yeah. So they learned a few things

636
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: afterwards that are sort of clues but never ended up

637
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: solving anything. Um. One is that a snow cat for

638
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: a service. Snow cat had been up that road I

639
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 1: think of what the just the day before. Yeah, yeah,

640
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: and packed in a path of snow so it was walkable.

641
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: So they you know, it led up to that trailer.

642
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: And they surmised that the boys may have this might

643
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: have been the only walkable path forward, so they might

644
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: have followed that path to the trailer. Uh. They hired

645
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: a water witcher at one point and uh, he was

646
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: in Paradise, California, and he said that he fixed his

647
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: little uh is it divining or divining divining rod to

648
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 1: pick up human minerals and traces of humans. That led

649
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: them to another cabin where they found a disposable lighter

650
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: and this was about three quarters of a mile from

651
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: the trailer where they found the body. And all the

652
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: parents said, no, like, they didn't have a lighter like this.

653
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: The guy's didn't carry a lighter, right, So there were

654
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: a lot of dead ends like that and that like that.

655
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: For example, that watch that had been found with Ted

656
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: weird that it was missing its crystal, and you know,

657
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: all the families said, that wasn't any of our boys watch.

658
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it could be totally meaningless. It could have

659
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: been a forest ranger who had left the watch behind

660
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: because it had broken or something like that. But that's

661
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: most of the evidence in this case, or just those

662
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,879
Speaker 1: just little dead ends. Yeah, that Gary Mathias apparently knew

663
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: some people and they're really just sort of reaching at

664
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: this point new people in Forbestown, which is about halfway

665
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 1: between Chico and Yuba City, and apparently the turn is

666
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: easy to miss, and there was some speculation like maybe

667
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 1: he was taking his buddies to go see these people

668
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: he knew got lost, but apparently those friends were like,

669
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 1: we hadn't seen him in years, and it would be

670
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 1: really like unlikely that he just would have randomly come

671
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 1: to visit. Yeah. I could also see the other boys

672
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 1: not wanting to go along with that too, because they

673
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: had that basketb All game in the morning that they

674
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: all wanted to be um fresh as a daisy for

675
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: you too, And and like Gary Mathias had been badgering

676
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: his mom, I think, like you said, to make sure

677
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 1: he didn't oversleep the next morning because he was excited

678
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: about that basketball game too. Yeah. So the thing is, though, Chuck,

679
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: is even if let's say that is the case, Let's

680
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: say that they all got a wild hair and they

681
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: decided to go see Gary Mathias's friend, and they started

682
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: up this mountain because they got lost. They missed the

683
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: turn off and ended up on a mountain road at

684
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 1: the snow line. I thought the car was stuck. What

685
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: why Why would all of them, all of them collectively

686
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: and individually, say well, let's go up rather than back down.

687
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: Let's go up into the snow. Supposedly the snow drifts

688
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: for six eight ft um and even if it was

689
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: packed down with a snow cat, it doesn't make sense

690
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:53,399
Speaker 1: to go forward. Unless they thought, well, the last side

691
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 1: of civilization behind us was too far right. Maybe there's

692
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: something up here which is a thing that's a that's

693
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: h an economic theory called sunk cost where you're so

694
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: invested in something, you're so far along that you don't

695
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 1: want to just stop and turn back or or quit.

696
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: So it's possible that that was that aided in their

697
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: decision making. But again, okay, so then let's say that

698
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, the snow cat track is gonna lead

699
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: us to safety or something. When they get to the trailer,

700
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: like why not eat the food? Why not make a fire?

701
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 1: I can I can even see missing the propane tank,

702
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 1: just not being you know, um, just with it enough

703
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: from the harrowing experience that you could just totally miss

704
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: the propane tank and not even think that your trailer

705
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: is going to have that kind of thing. But the

706
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: food that you've already started to eat, that you already

707
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: show you have a can opener and know how to

708
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: use it. Like, how do you just starve to death

709
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: after that? Well, I mean the food. The other food

710
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 1: was in a locker they never opened apparently. But like

711
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: if you're there, especially for two to three months, like

712
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: you're turning over everything, you're lighting a fire with whatever

713
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: you can get your hands on. Those plenty of stuff

714
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: to make a fire. Uh Uh. What's up with the

715
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: supposed woman and the baby? That could be chalked up

716
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: maybe pretty easily to uh what was his name? Snopes,

717
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: shoots shows, shoans snopes. That'd be snoop talk, that could

718
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: be chalked up to him in the state of a

719
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: heart attack in the middle of the night, just sort

720
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: of seeing things could have been or could have just

721
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 1: been an entirely different party of people who had nothing

722
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: to do with it or everything to do with it,

723
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: but it could have They could have been there too,

724
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: I mean it was, you know, it was a mountain,

725
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 1: some people lived on it. Some people apparently like camp there,

726
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 1: which is what Shoans was scouting for. You know, how

727
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 1: did Matthias never get found at all? I don't know

728
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: I saw him, I think, uh. I think at the

729
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: end of the WAPO article, um Cynthia Gorney, the the journalist,

730
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: says that, um, probably you know, he he laid there

731
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 1: on the snow somewhere that they just didn't find or overlooked,

732
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 1: or he got buried in the snow, and then when

733
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: the thaw came, he sunk down to the ground and

734
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: was covered over by some some mountain vines. I guess so.

735
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: But it seems like after all these years a bone

736
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: or one of those leather shoes or something would have

737
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: been found. Yeah, you'd think both of those would still

738
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: be intact. Yeah, I mean, what I did not see

739
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: was any sort of speculation that he had had any

740
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: nefarious like actions. Um, but we did put a pin

741
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,879
Speaker 1: in something. I don't remember what it was. I saw

742
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: a couple of theories that they they speculate that all

743
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: of these guys went to the cabin at one point

744
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 1: and maybe uh, we are wasn't doing so well. So

745
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: they all set out independently to go look for help

746
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: and each died or maybe in pairs, maybe since the

747
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: two guys were kind of found together. But I don't know.

748
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all just speculation. You saw that they

749
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: don't think they were all there? Yeah, what I saw

750
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:04,439
Speaker 1: was that um Jackie Hewitt and um Bill Sterling and

751
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: um Jack Madruga hadn't had never made it to the

752
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: to the trailer, that they would split up on the

753
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 1: way up. No, No, that they were, That they had

754
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: um or died during that twenty mile hike. Yes, interesting.

755
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 1: And then Ted and Gary had continued on upped and

756
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: made it made it to the trailer, and then what

757
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: I think happened after that was Gary nurse Ted. Gary

758
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: had been in the army, and the can opener that

759
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: was there was actually a very simple thing called the

760
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: P thirty eight, but you kind of had to have

761
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: been in the army to to know how to use it,

762
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: and Ted wouldn't have been and Gary would have been,

763
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: So I think Gary may have stayed, probably fed both

764
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: of them, and then like you said, seeing Ted was

765
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 1: not doing so well, set out again with Ted shoes

766
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: and died. Um going off to get helps somehow. That's

767
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: what I think happened. Ye, I would have think they

768
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: get split up on the way up though, Like I

769
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: just don't even know, like these guys would have died

770
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: that quickly on on the way on this twenty mile hike,

771
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: I mean six to eight fot snow drifts. That's cold. Yeah,

772
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: they're also on this snowpacked trail supposedly, sure, but they

773
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: also have like they're dressed for mild weather, Like they

774
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: didn't have jackets, sweaters, their shoes were like like like

775
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: converse kind of things aside from the the platform shoes

776
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 1: that like I did, it's entirely possible that twenty mile

777
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: hike up a mountain they succumbed to the weather. Yeah,

778
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: and you also, like it was hard to determine what

779
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: level of intellectual impairment these boys had, So I don't

780
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 1: know how much that plays into it, if at all.

781
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 1: Like when they get to this cabin, like did um

782
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: Matthias is because you know he didn't have his meds

783
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: after that, did he start kind of breaking down with

784
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: with some episodes of schizophrenia and leave? Did the other

785
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: guy not fully understand I mean at that point he's

786
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: exhausted and maybe hurt and scared. Was he not even

787
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: able to figure out maybe to light a fire, light

788
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: a fire, or how to use that can opener, or

789
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: maybe he felt he couldn't get out of bed because

790
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 1: of his feet. Yeah, and he he was just stuck

791
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: there after Gary struck out to go get help, that

792
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: there was nothing he could do, and the poor guy

793
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: starved to death. But what were they doing up there

794
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: to begin with? That's the the basic root of this

795
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: whole thing. Yeah, but that's that's why they call this

796
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 1: the American Diet Law pass Right, we gotta do an

797
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: episode on that one too. But because there's some there's

798
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: like a mystery within a mystery within a mystery, there's

799
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: so many many like other mysteries. Yeah, that that just

800
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: kind of um crescendo from the first mystery, which is

801
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: what were they doing there? Yeah? Well, like and like

802
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: you said, some of the parents firmly believe like they

803
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:10,320
Speaker 1: witnessed something at this basketball game and we're then chased

804
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: up this mountain. Yeah, Like I don't even know what

805
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,359
Speaker 1: that means, Like like they witnessed a crime, it came

806
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: after him or something. That's what Ted weird sister in

807
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: law always believed and speaking of Ted Weir, you got

808
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: anything else on this, no, except to only say if

809
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: that was the case, then why was the car seemingly

810
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: driven very slowly and carefully up this road if they

811
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: were being chased? Oh okay, So you make a good point,

812
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: and I think I saw that elsewhere to that that like,

813
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: that virtually proves that they weren't chased. If anything, it

814
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: shows that they that that says something happened to them

815
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: and somebody ditched their car. Who who knew the area?

816
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: I think more likely um Jack Madrugo. It just would

817
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 1: have driven extraordinarily slowly because this is his, his baby car. Yeah,

818
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: it's all just very sad. I think it's just one

819
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: of those It's probably like OCAM's razor. It's probably the

820
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: most simple explanation is you know, maybe they just went

821
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,919
Speaker 1: on a little joy ride, got a little lost, got

822
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: turned around in the woods, and succumbed to nature. Yeah,

823
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: so I find this. I said at the beginning that

824
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: this is just a very sad story to me, And

825
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: one of the things that got me was in that

826
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: Washington Post articles called five Boys Who Never Come Back

827
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: by Cynthia Gorney. You can find it online. But um, they,

828
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 1: she describes Ted, were as you're ready for this, that

829
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: Ted got a good chuckle out of phoning Bill Sterling

830
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: and reading from newspaper items or eyeball names from the

831
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: telephone book. Like that's what he was into, that's what

832
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: made him happy. And I'm sure Bill Sterling thought it

833
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 1: was hilarious too. But like they were just this group

834
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: of friends. And can't you just imagine, like Ted, We're

835
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,399
Speaker 1: like going through the phone book looking for silly names

836
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: and going and picking up the phone and calling his

837
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 1: friend Bill Sterling and saying, Bill, get a load of

838
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: this one, and Bill is just laughing on the other

839
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: end of the line, and like that they they just

840
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: had like this such a pure life, like almost like

841
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: an enviable life in a lot of ways, and that

842
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: they died so horribly is just just bitterly sad to me. Yeah,

843
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: I mean, they weren't troublemakers, and even um, even the

844
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 1: one who had had gotten convicted of assault a couple

845
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: of times. Gary, Yeah, Gary, it seems like all signs

846
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: point to the his mental illness is playing a big

847
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 1: factor in that which he had gotten in check right exactly,

848
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: all very sad. It is very sad. Well, if you

849
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: have any theories on the what did you call him?

850
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: The Uba City six, five Uba County or Uba City five,

851
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: Ubi City five? Um, we want to hear him. You

852
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: can find all of our social media connections on our

853
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: website Stuff you Should Know dot com and if you like,

854
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: you can also send us an email to shoot it

855
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:03,240
Speaker 1: off to off podcast at how stuff Works dot com. Wait,

856
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: we haven't done listener mail, have we know? You're just

857
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: gonna let me keep going, weren't you? You know? All right? Well,

858
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: hold on, everybody, hold on, don't stop yet, don't stop yet.

859
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: Since I said some stuff I'm not supposed to say,

860
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail. Yes. And speaking of which,

861
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: this listener mail is rated rated R okay, that's all.

862
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: I'll say the S word no, but it doesn't use

863
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 1: curse words. It's just um talks very frankly about sex

864
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: and it's good p s A though, So we know

865
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 1: this stuff. Uh and this is from Emily, not my wife. Hey, guys,

866
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: listen to the select episode on condoms the other day.

867
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 1: Thanks for all the great info. Appreciate you covering topics

868
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: maybe slightly controversial or divisive, and do so with such grace,

869
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to throw a little extra p s A

870
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: in there, though, for your listeners. Most people are aware

871
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: that you can and should use condoms to prevent pregnancy

872
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 1: and or st eyes when a penis is involved, but

873
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: there's far less awareness about protection when you've only got

874
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: vaginas in the mix. Although you certainly can't get pregnant,

875
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 1: it is possible to spread or contract an s t

876
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: I from sex between two women or other vagina having people,

877
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: but you can greatly reduce your risk of this by

878
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: using a dental dam. It's a sheet of latex placed

879
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: over the bulba or anus or oral sex. That's all, uh,

880
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 1: And that's all there really is to it. If you

881
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: don't have one on hand, you can safely d I

882
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: Y one by unrolling a regular condom, cutting off the

883
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,880
Speaker 1: clothes end, and bam it's a dental dam. In the

884
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: case of digital sex, not as in computers, as in fingers,

885
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: latex gloves are perfect or perfect for the job. Of course,

886
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: these can also be used by absolutely anyone. There's a

887
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: lot more awareness of protection for heterosexual and male homosexual couples,

888
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: and not a lot for queer women. Well that's my stuff.

889
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: You should know and now you know it. Thanks for

890
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: consistently great work and outstanding effort and educating and entertaining

891
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: us every week. And Happy Pride Month. Uh. And she

892
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: wrote back, I just realized I gave an incomplete d

893
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: I Y instruction. You would cut off the close end

894
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: of the condom, uh, and the ring on the open end,

895
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: then cut down the middle and now it's a flat sheet. Bam.

896
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: So that is from Emily. Thanks a lot, Emily, Happy

897
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 1: Pride Month. Indeed good info. Uh yeah, it was good info.

898
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:29,760
Speaker 1: And if you out there want to send us good info,

899
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: I already said it. I said it once and I'll

900
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: say it again. You can find all our social stuff

901
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: on stuff you should Know dot com, and you can

902
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,760
Speaker 1: send us an email to stuff podcast at how stuff

903
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: works dot com for more on this and thousands of

904
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com