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Speaker 1: Hey there, folks.

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Speaker 2: It is Wednesday, February fourth, and we are getting news

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Speaker 2: this morning that there is another another ransom note in

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Speaker 2: the case of Nancy Guthrie. Yes, another news outlet is

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Speaker 2: reporting it also received a ransom note, but unlike TMZ,

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Speaker 2: they decided not to make it public. And with that,

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Speaker 2: Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes is

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Speaker 2: one of our first thoughts when TMZ started reporting yesterday

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Speaker 2: they got a ransom note, like, are the police okay

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Speaker 2: with that? And it sounds like they were not with

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Speaker 2: this new information we got and Robes, doesn't that make sense?

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Speaker 1: It does?

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Speaker 3: And look, we talked about how, yes, there is a

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Speaker 3: balance between getting out the latest information and information you

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Speaker 3: have versus protecting the integrity of an investigation.

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Speaker 4: And especially look, it shouldn't matter, but when it is

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Speaker 4: a member of your own.

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Speaker 3: Industry, so to speak, as broadcasters, I don't know. Just

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Speaker 3: to think that perhaps, I mean, I would think Harvey

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Speaker 3: Levin knows Savannah Guthrie.

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Speaker 4: They have probably been in similar circles or have yes

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Speaker 4: cross paths.

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Speaker 3: Of course they know each other, and just out of

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Speaker 3: deference to the fact that her mother is missing and

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Speaker 3: putting something out potentially could hinder or impede the investigation

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Speaker 3: into finding her.

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Speaker 4: That takes things to a whole other level. It's beyond just.

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Speaker 3: What the legality is, and it's more about what your

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Speaker 3: duty is as a human.

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Speaker 1: And we try and we really went out of our way.

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Speaker 2: We didn't want to be critical of Harvey or DMZ

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Speaker 2: or it's a news organization. They break plenty of news

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Speaker 2: and we know that, but this was a really tough one.

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Speaker 2: And now you just what was the word you just used?

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Speaker 2: What the sheriff using the word compromise? Is it going

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Speaker 2: to compromise the investigation? So let's tell you what we

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Speaker 2: are this morning. Where we are is not really much

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Speaker 2: of an update from authorities about their investigation into where

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Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie, the eighty four year old mother of Savannah Guthrie,

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Speaker 2: Today's show host, who's been missing since well the last

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Speaker 2: scene last Saturday night. We reported missing on Sunday, so

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Speaker 2: Roobes they gave us an update in a press conference yesterday.

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Speaker 2: And the thing that jumped out he was asked twice

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Speaker 2: about have you received a ransom demand a ransom note?

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Speaker 2: He jumped over that question really quickly in a way

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Speaker 2: that didn't make sense, and he never would say no.

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Speaker 2: So that stood out and started being reported on. How

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Speaker 2: long after that did we get word about.

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Speaker 4: TMZ I believe within an hour?

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Speaker 2: Okay, within an hour. So Harvey Levin goes on and

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Speaker 2: he posts it and he also does a video saying

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Speaker 2: we have received an email, a note demanding millions in

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Speaker 2: bitcoin with a specific crypto curup bitcoin addressed that they

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Speaker 2: said was legitimate. Okay, fine, well here we go. This morning,

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Speaker 2: Robes the sheriff Department put out a statement saying, we

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Speaker 2: are aware of those reports that are out there that

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Speaker 2: actually made sense. Well, now Robes a local affiliate, and

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Speaker 2: Tucson is saying they got a note as well.

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Speaker 3: That's right, So this was a local CBS station and

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Speaker 3: the sheriff did confirm this that they too received a

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Speaker 3: ransom note. But they received a note on Monday, and

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Speaker 3: instead of putting it out for their viewers and publicizing it,

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Speaker 3: they turned it over immediately to the Sheriff's department. And

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Speaker 3: the Sheriff's department confirmed that and said that they did

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Speaker 3: show the note to Savannah and to the Guthrie families

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Speaker 3: that they were aware, and they asked the CBS affiliate

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Speaker 3: not to broadcast the contents of the note or even

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Speaker 3: acknowledge that the note was sent to them.

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Speaker 2: And they didn't which and they and I sitting here,

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Speaker 2: that is absolutely the right thing to do. This is

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Speaker 2: a captivating story right now, there's a national mystery, and

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Speaker 2: there is a life on the line of some naughty

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Speaker 2: the mother of somebody that we're all familiar with. Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is where we are, and this is why it's

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Speaker 2: a big story. Robes, I know this is a big scoop,

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Speaker 2: right you got it in your hands. This is a

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Speaker 2: big story, man. We're gonna get a lot of attention,

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Speaker 2: a lot of clicks if we put this out. But

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Speaker 2: that local affiliate did exactly what we talked about yesterday.

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Speaker 1: You've got to just say, authorities, whatever you all.

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Speaker 3: Want us to do, because the life of Nancy Guthrie

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Speaker 3: Trump's anything else truly in this story.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: Harvey Levin and TMZ did try to not get specific

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Speaker 3: about some of the details, but they certainly released other details,

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Speaker 3: including the demands. They didn't give a specific number, but

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Speaker 3: they led enough details out that I'm sure the Sheriff's

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Speaker 3: department was not happy about.

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Speaker 1: Well they even so, we are you say, they try

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Speaker 1: not to.

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Speaker 2: They gave millions of dollars bitcoin address said or else

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Speaker 2: in the note suggested that there was a timeline.

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Speaker 1: They gave a lot of switch.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and then they said that there were details about

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Speaker 3: either what she was wearing other details about what they

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Speaker 3: left behind in the crime scene that only somebody who

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Speaker 3: would have actually been involved in this crime would have known.

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Speaker 4: That.

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Speaker 3: They gave enough specifics that it could be determined whether

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Speaker 3: or not this ransom note was legit or not coming from.

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Speaker 4: The actual suspects or suspect.

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Speaker 3: And so yes, even giving that lent it created this

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Speaker 3: notion that this was potentially a credible ransom note. So

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Speaker 3: that makes it even more concerning that it would have

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Speaker 3: been released or broadcast or any information would have been

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Speaker 3: given about it if they really did think, hey, this

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Speaker 3: legitimately could be from the person or persons who have

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Speaker 3: Nancy Guthrie.

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Speaker 2: And the sheriff wouldn't go as far as to say

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Speaker 2: if those details did match up. So all he pretty

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Speaker 2: much did was acknowledged the note but didn't want to

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Speaker 2: give details, and again he said he does not know.

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Speaker 2: He was asked specifically, is this going to compromise that

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Speaker 2: I don't know, and sure, hope not, but compromised this

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Speaker 2: if if you think it slightly could have an impact

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Speaker 2: on whether or not that woman lives or dies, you

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Speaker 2: have to defer to police, you do on this, And look,

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Speaker 2: I guess there are other arguments to be made. And again,

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Speaker 2: Harvey and them do some great breaking news work over there.

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Speaker 2: So we try try try here, Ropes as best we

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Speaker 2: can with a lot of media stories, not to just

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Speaker 2: flat out criticize and go after in that way. It's

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Speaker 2: just I guess, Robes, we would have made a different decision,

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Speaker 2: and we've been a part of newsrooms that would make

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Speaker 2: a different decision. And here we are sitting in the

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Speaker 2: middle of this when the sheriff is even and Robes,

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Speaker 2: now we can give him a little bit of a break.

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Speaker 2: We were saying it before we knew about the ransom, like, hey, fine,

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Speaker 2: we want the information, but if you're telling us this

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Speaker 2: is all you can tell us to help save this

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Speaker 2: woman's life, then we'll accept it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean that's the role of the media in

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Speaker 3: this is, yes, to keep the focus on the story,

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Speaker 3: to get national attention, or at least certainly attention from

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Speaker 3: the folks who might have some real information to offer,

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Speaker 3: either through surveillance cameras or something they saw or something

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Speaker 3: they inadvertently captured. So the role of the press is

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Speaker 3: huge in a story like this because, yes, family members

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Speaker 3: want the attention, they want the focus, they want the pressure,

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Speaker 3: even on police, because time is not on anyone's side

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Speaker 3: when someone's missing. So there is a legitimate, important role

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Speaker 3: for the press to play. But then if you are

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Speaker 3: given something, and this has happened in other cases where

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Speaker 3: whoever is behind some crime somehow reaches out or leaks

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Speaker 3: something to the press, the point is, yeah, the right

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Speaker 3: thing to do is to give it to police and

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Speaker 3: let them tell you whether or not it's okay to

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Speaker 3: talk about it, it's okay to release it and look.

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Speaker 3: According to CBS, they reported that the sheriff said, this

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Speaker 3: is a big, big part of this, that TMZ report

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Speaker 3: on the ransom note before that organization contacted authorities.

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Speaker 4: That is really really upsetting.

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Speaker 2: If that is true, and it's also not what Harvey said.

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Speaker 2: Harvey said something different in the video said we reached

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Speaker 2: out to some people, but we don't know if we

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Speaker 2: got to the right place. He did not say, I

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Speaker 2: mean it sounded like we placed a phone call and

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Speaker 2: waiting to hear back or see if it makes it

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Speaker 2: up the chain or something.

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Speaker 3: He yeah, he said they had a hard time getting

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Speaker 3: in touch with the right person. Is how he phrased

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Speaker 3: it when he made this video, so it was you're right.

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Speaker 3: He kind of couched it, saying, hey, we're trying to

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Speaker 3: reach out to them, but we're not getting through or

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Speaker 3: we haven't gotten to the right person.

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Speaker 4: So we're having some trouble. But in the meantime, here's

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Speaker 4: what we have.

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Speaker 2: And the sheriff flat out said in the actual interview

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Speaker 2: on camera interview, he hoped to keep this out of

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Speaker 2: the public, and that makes sense why he was so

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Speaker 2: quick with his answers, so quick trying to move on.

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Speaker 2: He had full knowledge of this note when he stepped

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Speaker 2: in front of us yesterday.

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Speaker 4: You could actually now, of course, HEINZ twenty twenty.

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Speaker 3: You caught it immediately, and yes, it was pretty obvious

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Speaker 3: his demeanor changed. He seemed slightly panicked quickly to move

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Speaker 3: away from that question, and he just his demeanors switched

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Speaker 3: ever so slightly where he rushed and didn't say no.

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Speaker 4: He didn't want to lie.

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Speaker 3: To the press, but it was very obvious he was

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Speaker 3: keeping something. Something about that question made him quickly want

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Speaker 3: to change the subject.

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Speaker 2: And Rose not just did he know about it when

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Speaker 2: he came before camp. What time was that press coming

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Speaker 2: for no One?

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Speaker 4: It was around one one thirty Easter Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yes, one thirty Eastern time. At that point, not only

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Speaker 2: was he aware of the note, he had shared it

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Speaker 2: and discussed it with the Guthrie family at that point

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Speaker 2: they were watching that press conference, also knowing and probably

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Speaker 2: also hoping and probably also going good. He handled it

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Speaker 2: well best he could. He was asked directly he could

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Speaker 2: have lied to the press.

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Speaker 1: He didn't.

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Speaker 2: Look.

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Speaker 1: I compare it not exactly the same.

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Speaker 2: But Rose been in situations with with the members of

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Speaker 2: the military to have some covert operation that media has

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Speaker 2: full knowledge of ahead of time. But if you report

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Speaker 2: on it, you're going to put the lives of soldiers

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Speaker 2: at risk. We have precedent for cooperating with police when

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Speaker 2: lives are a lot at stake.

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Speaker 3: We have precedent for cooperating with press. Pr folks embargoes.

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Speaker 3: You know, this is something that the press does all

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Speaker 3: the time. We'll have information about something, even entertainment wise,

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Speaker 3: that they don't want out.

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Speaker 1: And that's why they get screeners.

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Speaker 3: Advanced screeners, but you're embargoed from talking about it beforehand

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Speaker 3: for just reasons of you know, financial success for the film,

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Speaker 3: et cetera.

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Speaker 4: Like they don't want things getting out so on silly things.

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Speaker 1: You're so right, we apply for death consequences.

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Speaker 4: We hold information all the time.

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Speaker 2: So this would not be a stretch, is now what

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Speaker 2: we're saying. And again they made the decision for whatever reason.

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Speaker 2: Don't know if they will ever think different. We're only

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Speaker 2: saying in our experience, we would have done something differently.

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Speaker 2: Don't know if it's going to have an impact on

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Speaker 2: this case one way or another. Robes did we mention

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Speaker 2: the CBS reporter alluded to these not being two separate notes,

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Speaker 2: so not a we were worried about a copycat potential situation,

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Speaker 2: But it sounds like they believe this is the same note,

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Speaker 2: just sent to two different places.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I had that question because it was a little confusing,

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Speaker 3: But that does appear to be what the case is.

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Speaker 3: And then we were trying to kind of figure out

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Speaker 3: whoever is behind these notes, whether it is the person

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Speaker 3: who actually took Savannah's mom or not.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting as if they sent it to a.

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Speaker 3: News organization so that that news organization would publish it.

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Speaker 3: And when the CBS affiliate, good for them, just gave

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Speaker 3: it to police and did not broadcast it.

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Speaker 4: It was almost as if.

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Speaker 3: They were annoyed and then sent it to a place

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Speaker 3: where they thought might broadcast it.

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Speaker 4: That's tough, AKATMZ.

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Speaker 3: But that is where your head goes that whoever was

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Speaker 3: behind it was like, well, damn, they didn't put it out.

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Speaker 3: I guess I'll have to try someone who will. And

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Speaker 3: that's what it seems like.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps happens if you want then that's smart or stupid. Right,

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Speaker 2: If you want to get your word out, do you

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Speaker 2: send it to the CBS affiliate in Tucson, Arizona, if

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Speaker 2: you wanted to go worldwide?

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's smaller, Maybe you think they'll jump on it.

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Speaker 2: Are you going to send it to an ABC news

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Speaker 2: which was probably first called the FBI and then go

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Speaker 2: through maybe not? Or do you have no idea what

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Speaker 2: you're doing as a criminal right now? And send it

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Speaker 2: to the local station that you drive by on your

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Speaker 2: way to and from the gas station in your neighborhood

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Speaker 2: and thought that was a good idea. What the hell

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Speaker 2: is going on? I will tell you the first thing

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Speaker 2: that started making zentthropes is that there is a ransom.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that, because nothing else makes sense, and we've been trying,

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Speaker 3: everyone has been going through all the what could possibly

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Speaker 3: be the motive or what could possibly be the reason

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Speaker 3: someone would abduct an eighty four year old frail woman

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Speaker 3: who needs medical care.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that's not urgent day constant. That is not

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Speaker 4: a typical kidnapping target by anyone. No one wants to

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Speaker 4: be dealing with that.

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Speaker 3: Or there's just the motivation is puzzling other than money, and.

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Speaker 2: They are telling us it's in the millions. But also

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Speaker 2: we are getting a couple of other updates about the

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Speaker 2: investigation through video footage that was shot at Nancy Guthrie's home.

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Speaker 2: We'll explain that. Also an event playing there in the

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Speaker 2: area tonight. And we are getting an update about Savannah's

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Speaker 2: very busy, very important upcoming work schedule. We probably saw

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Speaker 2: this coming, not probably romes. We knew she would not

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Speaker 2: likely be going to the Olympic. Stay here, all those

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Speaker 2: updates coming. We continue here on this Amy and TJ

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Speaker 2: on this Wednesday morning, February the fourth, continuing on the

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Speaker 2: search for Nancy Guthrie of Savannah Guthrie and Ropes. The

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Speaker 2: Olympics actually is underway. The opening ceremony has not happened,

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Speaker 2: but they start doing a lot of preliminary events. The

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Speaker 2: Winter Olympics is going on. This is the most important

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Speaker 2: thing NBC does. We think the Olympics is every four

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Speaker 2: years or every two years you do summer, winter. It

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Speaker 2: is year round for this network. It is They pay

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Speaker 2: tons for it and they nail it on coverage. So

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Speaker 2: to have her not be a part of it is

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Speaker 2: we understand. But man, this is a big deal. It's

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Speaker 2: having impacts, That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, You and I actually we've covered the Olympics for ABC,

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Speaker 3: but we both covered the Olympics or were with the

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Speaker 3: Olympic team at NBC, and so we actually know what

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Speaker 3: it's like at that network, the host network of the games.

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Speaker 3: This is the planning that goes into these games and

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Speaker 3: covering these games the way NBC does is like nothing

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Speaker 3: I have ever experienced before.

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Speaker 4: It is a machine. They know how to do it.

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Speaker 3: But it takes a tremendous amount of preparation. And when

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Speaker 3: you're the host, when you're the anchor of the opening ceremonies.

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Speaker 3: Like Savannah, You've been studying for not weeks, for months.

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Speaker 3: You've had binders upon binders of who the athletes are,

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Speaker 3: what the host countries are expected to do, and when

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Speaker 3: those opening ceremonies come, you are on your feet ad libbing.

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Speaker 4: The prep is intense. So, yes, this all is happening

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Speaker 4: on Friday.

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Speaker 3: Savannah would have likely left probably Tuesday or Wednesday today

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Speaker 3: at the latest to head to Milan to get ready,

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Speaker 3: to get acclimated, and to be ready to put on

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Speaker 3: one of the biggest shows of the year for NBC.

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Speaker 2: Again, obviously not the priority right now. Clearly we understand this,

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Speaker 2: but that is the timing. That's just absolutely huge that

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Speaker 2: she's not going to be there. We'll tell you we

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Speaker 2: didn't report this previously. We saw about this, but now

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Speaker 2: CBS is reporting that one of its cameras caught and

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Speaker 2: we've seen these images of what they believe. Nobody else

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Speaker 2: is saying this what they believe to be blood on

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Speaker 2: the front porch of that home.

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Speaker 1: Rod.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what to make it, because the initial

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Speaker 2: reports was that somebody got up on the.

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Speaker 1: Porch that shouldn't have been there.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean it's private property.

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Speaker 3: Now it's no longer a crime scene technically, because they

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Speaker 3: did say that, the sheriff did say that yesterday, specifically

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Speaker 3: that they are done processing the scene.

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Speaker 4: But it is still private property. And I have to

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Speaker 4: tell you, look.

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Speaker 3: I have.

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Speaker 4: I don't even like looking. I keep looking up.

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Speaker 3: And CBS continues to put up I don't I'm curious

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Speaker 3: what the other networks are going to do putting up

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Speaker 3: that blood spatter.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to see that.

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Speaker 3: I actually wouldn't want my children to see it if

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Speaker 3: they were younger, waking up in the morning and seeing

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Speaker 3: potentially Nancy Guthrie's blood spattered on her doorstep. I just

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Speaker 3: think sometimes we get so desensitized. I just don't appreciate that.

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Speaker 3: And I'm thinking about Savannah. This is such look for anybody,

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Speaker 3: this is difficult, but she is. This is her industry,

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Speaker 3: this is her business. She covers stories like this about

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Speaker 3: other people every single day.

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Speaker 4: And I wonder how much.

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Speaker 1: Look.

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Speaker 4: She's probably not watching that much right now.

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Speaker 3: But in hindsight, you look at this and you think

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Speaker 3: you do things differently as a journalist when you've suddenly

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Speaker 3: become the center of a media frenzy. And I just

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Speaker 3: feel for her to think about her mother's blood being

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Speaker 3: displayed potentially across networks for just for I hate to

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Speaker 3: say entertainment value, but certainly for the shock value.

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Speaker 2: Not necessary, but they can tell necessary that you can

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Speaker 2: actually be told without showing you're right. And to the

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Speaker 2: point about being desensitized, it didn't hit me as much

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Speaker 2: until you started talking about it now, like that's a

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Speaker 2: damn shame.

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Speaker 1: I get it.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sure we've been on stories and had these

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Speaker 2: fight and look, just so have we look it up

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Speaker 2: and bam.

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Speaker 1: There it is.

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Speaker 4: They've played it more than I've seen any other video.

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Speaker 4: And look, I'm just look, it's we're trying.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's a I don't know, it's fine.

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Speaker 1: I say it's fine. What I'm saying is go ahead.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, I was just saying, we've been watching Rachel Good,

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Speaker 3: we've been watching Alex Pretdi get killed on this video

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Speaker 3: for the last few weeks, and we've just been.

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Speaker 4: Airing it like it's nothing.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we have I'm thinking ten years ago in

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Speaker 3: this business, in journalism and broadcast news, I don't.

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Speaker 4: Think we would have aired those things.

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Speaker 3: And now maybe it's because of YouTube and all of

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Speaker 3: the access TikTok people just showing everything and everyone having

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Speaker 3: cell phone video and now we're just okay with showing

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Speaker 3: things that I don't think we would have shown.

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Speaker 2: Is that it is years ago? Is a decision being made? Well,

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Speaker 2: it's out there anyway, Yes, let's just put it up.

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Speaker 2: You know what that image of that, which we don't

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Speaker 2: know for sure, is blood And the authorities have not

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Speaker 2: confirmed that they have found blood. They say they found

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Speaker 2: DNA inside the home. They haven't said anything about outside,

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Speaker 2: so actually we don't even know what this is.

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Speaker 1: Yes on the front is yeah, oh I'm saying yes.

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Speaker 3: The sheriff specifically said outside or inside. We cannot confirm

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Speaker 3: that we have found blood.

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Speaker 2: So that that's just but it's out that is out

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Speaker 2: there and it is rolling constantly. Would get to your

384
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Speaker 2: point here, now, Rope, we're sensitive about crime scene photos,

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Speaker 2: we're sensitive about showing dead bodies.

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Speaker 1: We're sensive about blood. Why was that? Why is that? Now?

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Speaker 2: I think this is one of those stories, Robes, and

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Speaker 2: we've been in the middle of them. When there is

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Speaker 2: a void, when there is not enough official information coming

390
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Speaker 2: out on a big story, everybody scrambles to get anything.

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Speaker 2: And if you got any little thing you then turn

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Speaker 2: it into a big something that maybe you would not

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Speaker 2: have reported on before. Do you think if the if

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Speaker 2: the sheriff had come out and given us that information

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Speaker 2: about a ransom, Nope, no network would have been running

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Speaker 2: out there and say, ooh we got something, let's put

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Speaker 2: this on.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: He lost control of that narrative because he was choosing

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Speaker 2: what to put out and he ran up against an

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Speaker 2: organization that didn't mind putting it out.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a really good point, and I think

403
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Speaker 3: that's very true.

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Speaker 4: And I think that.

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Speaker 3: Maybe even if the sheriff had said, yes, we did

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Speaker 3: find blood, maybe people wouldn't be so quick to say, see,

407
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Speaker 3: here's blood. You know, you make a very good point.

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Speaker 3: When there is a vacuum, when there is a void

409
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Speaker 3: of information, people are desperate, especially a big story that

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Speaker 3: they know everyone wants information on, everyone wants to click

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Speaker 3: on that they will just fill in the void with

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Speaker 3: everything and anything they get without thinking it through, without

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Speaker 3: thinking about the ethics involved.

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Speaker 1: That's a look.

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Speaker 2: Hearts go out to Savannah Guthrie and her family, and

416
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Speaker 2: you said, I haven't spent as much time as you

417
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Speaker 2: have around her, but she is a delight and I mean,

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Speaker 2: she is fun, she is energetic, she is bubbling, and

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Speaker 2: she is as sharp as attack and ropes you just

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Speaker 2: can't imagine, but to see now it is, it's one

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Speaker 2: of your own to a certain degree, being put through

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Speaker 2: and tested with what's happening to her family, but being

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Speaker 2: put through and tested and.

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Speaker 1: In some ways harmed.

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Speaker 2: I hate to say victimized by how stories like this

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Speaker 2: get covered.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I think I think that is a fair word,

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Speaker 3: especially when you look at the comments and what people

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Speaker 3: are saying.

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Speaker 4: We talked about this yesterday. But she's going through something

431
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Speaker 4: that is.

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Speaker 3: Unthinkably difficult that most of us will never have to experience.

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Speaker 3: But for those who have, and even if you haven't,

434
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Speaker 3: just put yourself in her position and show some respect

435
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Speaker 3: and just some just some acknowledgment of someone going through

436
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Speaker 3: a painful time.

437
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 4: Don't add to it. Don't add to it with speculation

438
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Speaker 4: and judgment.

439
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 2: And folks will let you know tonight. There is a

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Speaker 2: candlelight visual planned there in the Tucson area for this evening.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure what to expect. There are no press conferences,

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Speaker 2: at least we can tell you planned for today. He

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Speaker 2: said he wouldn't put another one on the schedule until tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: but if news breaks he will update, and if certainly

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Speaker 2: it comes out, we'll let you know as well. As always,

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Speaker 2: top right corner of your Apple podcast app on our

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Speaker 2: show page, little button that says follow. Click that and

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Speaker 2: you can make sure all the updates that we have

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Speaker 2: have been so many breaking news updates lately, but they'll

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Speaker 2: come right to you. We always appreciate you listening to us,

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Speaker 2: but for my dear Amy Roback, I am t J.

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Speaker 1: Holmes and we will talk to you almost m