1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Monster d C Sniper, a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: podcast are solely those of the podcast author or individuals 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: participating in the podcast, and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener discretion is advised. 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 2: December two thousand, the island of Antigua, fifteen year old 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: Lee boy Malvo lay alone in bed in a dark shack. 8 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 2: He shivered, sick with rheumatic fever. He needed medicine but 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 2: didn't know how to get it. He was all alone 10 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 2: in a foreign country, with no family and few friends. 11 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 2: There was a knock at the door. A man came in. 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: It was John Mohammed, the American, the man who had 13 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: smuggled Lee's mother into the United States. John had just 14 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 2: come by to check on the boy, who he knew 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 2: was living alone, but when he saw Lee's dire state, 16 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 2: brought him to the doctor. Lee got an antibiotic shot 17 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: and John stayed with him while he recovered. 18 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 3: Mohammed he stated me the entire time of nurse and 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 3: back to health, and I told him my entire life story, 20 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 3: my parents, my situations when I bounced around what I felt. 21 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 3: I told him everything. I left nothing out Because I 22 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 3: trusted this guy. He gave me his time. It's that simple. 23 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 3: He was one of the only people who listened I 24 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 3: lead on him. I trusted him. I did not trust 25 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 3: my mom. I didn't trust anyone else, but I trusted him. 26 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 2: Before long, Lee asked John if he could live with him. 27 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: John agreed, and Lee moved in with him and his children. 28 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 4: He was so desperate to have a father figure. My 29 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 4: name is doctor Chonathan Harold Meck. I am a clinical 30 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 4: nurse psychologist. Very quickly, Malvo starts calling Muhammed dad. 31 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 3: He said, everything that you've been taught from your religion, 32 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 3: your morals, your education, you've basically been brainwashed. And he 33 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 3: would explained to me a mixture of his worldview and 34 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,279 Speaker 3: the nation of Islam. He twisted a lot of things. 35 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 4: It certainly wasn't you know, standard religion. He would have 36 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 4: him listen to tapes even when he was falling asleep. 37 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 3: Speaches and all sorts of stuff, thousands of hours, over 38 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 3: and over. 39 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 4: Again, giving him subliminal suggestions that there is essentially a 40 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 4: war going on between blacks and whites. 41 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 5: There is a ruthless person on the loose. 42 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,559 Speaker 6: What I nerves this community the most is the randomness 43 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 6: of the murders, ordinary people doing ordinary things. 44 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: They killed the five people in one day and then 45 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: went on the rampage for the next month. 46 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 3: It is quite a mystery. 47 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 7: The police say they have never had a crime quite 48 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 7: like this. 49 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 8: Be careful, these guys are using weapons that are going 50 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 8: to go right straight through our full of proof best. 51 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: From My Heart Radio and Tenderfoot Teva. 52 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 5: This is Monster DC sniper. 53 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 3: Very quickly when I met Mom and I assimilated everything 54 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 3: about him. 55 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 2: At the beginning of two thousand and one, after Lee 56 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: had moved in with John in Antigua, friends and teachers 57 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 2: remember seeing Lee change. His good grades began to slip. 58 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 2: He started bringing a Koran to his Christian high school 59 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: and arguing with other students about religion, and Lee also 60 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: started talking a lot about guns. 61 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 3: I just became someone. It was something I'm used to doing. 62 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 3: I can bouncing around from home to home, place to place, 63 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 3: and I became what I call a change in him. 64 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 3: Whoever I'm around, whoever the authority is, I changed the 65 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 3: suit that person. 66 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 4: The attachment to a mother or a father is really 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 4: core to developing a stable mentally health the adult. 68 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: Doctor Jonathan Mack is a neural psychologist and co author 69 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: of the book The Making of Lee Boyd. 70 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 5: Malvo. 71 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: Max studied Lee's life extensively. He thinks Lee's readiness to 72 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: trust John was due to an attachment disorder, a disorder 73 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: in how kids connect with adults. 74 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 4: I felt that Malvo met the criteria for disinhibited social 75 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 4: engagement disorder. 76 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 2: With disinhibited social engagement disorder, kids are so desperate for 77 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: a caregiver that they are overly trusting of strangers. They 78 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: will latch onto any authority figure they can, ignoring signs 79 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 2: that the adult might not have their best interest at heart. 80 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 4: If you look at Malvo's history, his father in the 81 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 4: first years of his life was in his life, out 82 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 4: of his life. His mother was also in and out 83 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 4: and had a habit of shipping him off, and just 84 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 4: as soon as he was developing an attachment to the 85 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 4: new people, he was moved somewhere else. So the fact 86 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 4: that that Malvo had so many broken attachments from so 87 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 4: many of the people that he lived with, he had 88 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 4: this social disengagement disorder and was basically ready to attach 89 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 4: on to anyone. 90 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: I went to him because I felt alone in this world. 91 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 3: I assimilated everything about him, from his mannerisms, is religion. 92 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 3: I lost my accent. I just became someone different once 93 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 3: he gained my trust. That was the lost copse. 94 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 2: Throughout early two thousand and one, John continued to forge 95 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: documents and helped smuggle people into the United States. On 96 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 2: April fourteenth, John was detained at Miami International Airport. He'd 97 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: flown there from Antigua alongside to Jamaican women. The women 98 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: were caught presenting forged documents to customs agents, and the 99 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 2: agents suspected John was helping the two women enter the 100 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: United States illegally. They couldn't prove it, so they had 101 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: to release John, but they contacted Antiguan authorities and relayed 102 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 2: their suspicions. Lee says that John called him in a panic. 103 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: John told Lee to hide the kids and the cash 104 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: that he kept in the house. Lee took the children 105 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 2: to John's girlfriend's place, but when he went back to 106 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 2: get the money, it had already been seized by Antiguan authorities. 107 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: Lee says John lost at least one hundred sixty thousand 108 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: dollars because of the raid. John feared he would be 109 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 2: arrested if he returned to Antigua, so he decided to 110 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: lay low in the US. John instructed Lee, who was 111 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: just sixteen years old himself, to watch over his kids. 112 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 2: John also asked Bale to help out with the business 113 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: by delivering fake birth certificates to clients. Lee dropped out 114 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: out of school to help. John then traveled back to 115 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: Washington State, and on April twenty third, he legally changed 116 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: his name from John Williams to John Muhammad, perhaps to 117 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: try to avoid raising any red flags when he returned 118 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: to Antigua. 119 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 9: Okay, mister Williams taching to have your name change. 120 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 10: Just what is your current legal name? 121 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 9: My current legal name is Allen, Okay, and what is 122 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 9: the new name by which you wish to be known? 123 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 11: Allen Muhammad? 124 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 9: And why do you desire to be known. 125 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 11: By this new name? 126 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 10: For our religion partner? 127 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 9: Are you changing your name for any other reason? Are 128 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 9: you changing your name to defraud or mislead any person 129 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 9: or creditor? Are you involved in any legal proceeding other 130 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 9: than this name change? And have you ever been convicted 131 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 9: of a felony? Are you under supervision of any probation 132 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 9: department that requires you to report a change of address 133 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 9: MILCA ahead you grant. 134 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 11: Your name change there. 135 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: While in Washington State, John also visited Earl Donze. 136 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 12: I met John when I used to work for Horizon Airlines. 137 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 12: I was actually interested in a printer that I saw 138 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 12: at a store. This printer was an ALPS MD five 139 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 12: thousand CERI. Printer had a big. 140 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 10: Reputation during the early nineties of making counterfeit money. 141 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 12: It views film as inking, so it was really expensive 142 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:29,239 Speaker 12: printers I wouldn't afford at the time. And this cowork 143 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 12: of mine knew a friend as did it. 144 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 10: So I met John that way. John was really flashy. 145 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 10: He had nice suits. He become different cars all the time, 146 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 10: Jaguar Diamante. 147 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 12: He said, I can get the printer for you if 148 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 12: you can help me out. He want to know if 149 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 12: I can alter some documents because for a hobby I 150 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 12: do graphics designs. Okay, so a fairy deal. So John 151 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 12: got it for me. 152 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 10: I don't know how he got it. He asked me 153 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 10: to stand a birth certificate with. 154 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 12: His name on it and asked me if I can 155 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 12: raise the name that was on the birthday. So I 156 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 12: used a simple program on computer to erased a name, 157 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 12: and he asked me to type another name. 158 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 13: Man. 159 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 12: Okay, sure, so he wanted me to type I'm guessing 160 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 12: could have been Lee. 161 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 5: You know. 162 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 12: This is where I realized that he was actually involved 163 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 12: with smuggling people across the border. 164 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 10: He was charging thousand bucks ahead I think maybe more. 165 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: On May twentieth, two thousand and one, John traveled back 166 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 2: to Antigua with his new name and altered documents in hand. 167 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,199 Speaker 14: When John returned to the island, the government had already 168 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 14: seized over one hundred and sixty thousand dollars, but John 169 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 14: did not scold Lee. 170 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: This is criminologist and co author of Lee Boyd Malbo's 171 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 2: autobiography Anthony Meoi. 172 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 14: When he got back, John pulled him tight, hugged him 173 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 14: and said, great job, son. And it was that very 174 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 14: moment that really select that defies their relationship. Lee said, 175 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 14: from that moment on, I was willing to do anything 176 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 14: for that man. 177 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 2: A week and a half later, on May thirty first, 178 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 2: John returned to the United States with his three children 179 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 2: and Lee Boyd Malville. They traveled through Puerto Rico to 180 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: Fort Myers, Florida, where Lee's mother was living and working 181 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: at a red lobster restaurant. Lee says that John was 182 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 2: planning on setting up a counterfeiting operation with friends from 183 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: the Caribbean. John wanted Lee to watch over the kids 184 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: while he traveled to get the equipment they needed to 185 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 2: print fake currency. According to Lee's diary, John asked Lee's 186 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: mother if the boy could continue staying with him, but 187 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: she was having none of it. Una thought John was 188 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 2: a bad influence on her son. Lee remembers his mother saying, 189 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 2: he is my child. What I eat, he eats. If 190 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 2: he cannot be satisfied with that, that greed will kill him. 191 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 2: She then looked at Lee and said, you met this 192 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 2: man no more than six months ago, and you've completely 193 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 2: forgotten where you come from. Reluctantly, John left Lee with 194 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 2: Una and disappeared again with his kids. Back in Washington State, 195 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 2: Mildred Muhammad was still searching for her children. It had 196 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: been fifteen months since she had seen or spoken to them. 197 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 2: Following her hospitalization, Mildred had moved into a women's shelter 198 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 2: where her friend and former accountant, Eisen Nichols volunteered. Mildred 199 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: took a pair ofegal course to learn about what legal 200 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 2: options she had to get her children back. She divorced 201 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 2: John in his absence and legally gained full custody of 202 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 2: the children. The problem was no one knew where they were, 203 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: so she also filed a red of habas corpus, which. 204 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 15: Meant that anywhere they found my children, they needed to 205 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,199 Speaker 15: pick them up and bring them back to me. So 206 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 15: I had all of my paperwork notarized. And my sister 207 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 15: calls and says, Mama sick, can you come to Maryland. 208 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 15: I have not found my children, but I can wait 209 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 15: over there. 210 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 2: Mildred moved to the town of Clinton in Prince George's County, Maryland. 211 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 2: Three more months passed without any sign of the children. 212 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 2: It was now August two thousand and one, and the 213 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: shelter where Mildred had been staying got a call. Her 214 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: friend Issa Nichols was volunteering there when it happened. 215 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 16: We get a call and it is the Department of 216 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 16: Social Health Services in Bellingham, Washington. They're calling following up 217 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 16: an application for support, but John had completed with his 218 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 16: three kids. Well, what John didn't know the three kids 219 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 16: were already in the system. 220 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: John Muhammad had returned to Washington State with his children 221 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: and tried to register them for welfare, but Ath already 222 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: suspected him of committing welfare fraud, so they looked up 223 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: the children's previously listed contact information and tried calling Mildred 224 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: at the shelter. 225 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 15: I get a call from the executive director of the 226 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 15: shelters in and she said, Millie, I think we found 227 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 15: your children. You need to fax all of your paperwork 228 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 15: to Detective McCarthy. So I did that, followed up with 229 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 15: a phone call. I said, did you get my paperwork? 230 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 15: He said yes, Smam, I did. But Ms Muhammed, do 231 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 15: you know where we are? I say, you're in Bellingham, Washington. 232 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 15: He said correct, but we're on the border of Canada. 233 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 15: If he gets across the border with your children, there 234 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 15: will be nothing we can do. I said, I appreciate 235 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 15: that information, but if you could just go get my children, 236 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 15: I would appreciate that too. August thirty first, four thirty 237 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 15: five pm. He called and he said, Miss Mohammed, we 238 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 15: got your children. I screamed, and my brother in law 239 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 15: came downstairs. 240 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 8: What's going on? 241 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: I said, hey found my children. 242 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 5: Can you please talk to him. 243 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 15: I'm running up and down the stairs, running outside and 244 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 15: in and he said, nol, do you want to talk 245 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 15: to him? 246 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 16: I stopped. 247 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 15: I hadn't heard their voices in eighteen wards. So the 248 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 15: first person I talked to is Taliba and she says, hi, mommy. 249 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 15: I said, hey, honey, how you doing? She said, I'm good. 250 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 16: You want to talk to my sister. Let's said, yes, 251 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 16: say me talked to your sister. 252 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 15: She said, hi, mommy. I say, hey, honey. 253 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 16: She said guess what. 254 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 15: I said, what honey, I'm nine years old and you 255 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 15: missed two birthdays. I said, oh, I'm sorry. I'll make 256 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 15: it up to you. 257 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 17: I promise. 258 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 15: She said, okay, mommy, but John doesn't want to talk 259 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 15: to you because he's angry. I said, okay, that's fine. 260 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 15: So Detective McCarthy gets back on the phone and he said, 261 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 15: it's Mohammad. We need for you to come back to 262 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 15: Tacoma for any emergency custody hearing. 263 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 16: Mildred flies out the next day and she calls me 264 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 16: up that next morning and she says, will you go 265 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 16: with me to the courthouse? And I said sure. I 266 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 16: didn't think anything about it. You know, eighteen months have 267 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 16: gone by. I want to see the kids. 268 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 15: I so went with me to court and We're standing 269 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 15: in the hallway and I said, oh, my god, there's John. 270 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 16: Mildred looks at John. John stares at Mildred. Mildred starts 271 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 16: running and screaming. She's just scared. She hasn't seen John 272 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 16: in eighteen months. The sheriff's apartment is in the courthouse, 273 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 16: and they come out and they get her and they 274 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 16: put us in a room somewhere until the court case. 275 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 15: So we walk in the courtroom and as soon as 276 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 15: I get in the door, I see John on the 277 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 15: back road to the right side, and I froze and 278 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 15: I just remember feeling that I was so scared. But 279 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 15: he was just sitting there, just oh, nonchalant. And I 280 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 15: used to say, Mildred, just. 281 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 16: Breathe, breathe. What do you mean, just breathe. 282 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 15: Do you know how fast this man can move? 283 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 17: She said, Mildred, we just have to breathe. 284 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 16: So we're calming her down. She's holding my hand. Were 285 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 16: sitting by her attorney. They're going over the paperwork, and 286 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 16: the judge hiss the. 287 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 7: Gavel morning, please be seated. 288 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 11: This is enery the marriage of Mildred Denise Williams, John 289 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 11: Allen Williams Council, Your honor, Heather Smith on behalf of 290 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 11: the petitioner. This is Mildred Williams. She is present in 291 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 11: the court. Let me swear both parties in before it begins. Sir, 292 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 11: if you raise your right hand, ma'am you both saw 293 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 11: me swear from the name testimony. You're about to provide 294 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 11: the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Yes, yes, sir, sir, 295 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 11: what is your name? Legal name is John Allen Muhammad 296 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 11: and ma'am what is your name mild Muhammas. But they 297 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,959 Speaker 11: said that we needed to use the ninth that we 298 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 11: were married on their death wives under William Council. You 299 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 11: have if I believe a return on a rid of 300 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 11: habeas corpus. I do have at Commissioner Dickie issued it 301 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 11: back in June of two thousand and this is the 302 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,239 Speaker 11: first contact with these children since that time. Yes, it 303 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 11: is your honor. The divorce decree and apparenting plans were 304 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 11: entered in October of two thousand, after the writ that 305 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 11: the final parenting plan gives who custody the children? 306 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 3: All three children? Yes, I can I say something just 307 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 3: a moment, okay. 308 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 11: The concern I have right now is I don't know 309 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 11: who's got these children where they're at and speaking with 310 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 11: a deputy right this morning. All they would need was 311 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 11: an order releasing the children from protective custody to the 312 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 11: mother's custody. Cyah, would you like to say, Yohna, can 313 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 11: you please tell me what's going on? There is a 314 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 11: parenting plan was entered by the court on October six, 315 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 11: two thousand. Awarepons, there was an order of default taken 316 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 11: against you because you did not respond to divorced summons. 317 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 11: It was published against you. As part of that Mother 318 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 11: obtained on her own without the help of an attorney, 319 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 11: for ritt of habeas corpus, which allows her to have 320 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 11: the physical possession of the children, so the children to 321 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 11: have a mission the waradots whenever known by mother. That's 322 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 11: why the court apparently issued the writ you never responded 323 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 11: to the published summons for divorce. Are you telling me 324 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 11: the reason why I don't have my children won't be 325 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 11: to keep my children because I don't have the proper 326 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 11: paperwork ynt No, I'm saying that you've been divorced. The 327 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 11: court has entered orders that mother had sole residential placement, 328 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 11: care and custody of the children, and then you've got 329 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 11: no visitation at present without for the court order. So 330 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 11: I'm not able to see my children by virtue of 331 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 11: the private court order, not today's court order. So if 332 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 11: you believe that the allegations are not valid, you should 333 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 11: bring that to the court's attention, all right. If you 334 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 11: do not have copies of the court orders, I suggest 335 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 11: that sir, you ask for copies of those documents so 336 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 11: you can look at them and reflect on what you'd 337 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 11: like to do next. 338 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 13: Thank you, Thank you. 339 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 16: John finds all of that information out in the courtroom 340 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 16: that day that he is divorced for Mildrid and she 341 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 16: has sole custody of the children. He was so angry 342 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 16: he flipped. It was that look that I will never forget. 343 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 16: John leaves the courtroom. We come out and we're standing 344 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 16: against the wall. 345 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 15: And all of a sudden, I fell a presence and 346 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 15: I turn and it's John. I take off down the hallway, 347 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 15: My shoes go everywhere. 348 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 16: Mildred takes off sprinting down the corner. I look up 349 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 16: and John passes by me, heading towards Mildred. He was 350 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 16: just so focused, he just had this dead stare. He 351 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 16: was so angry, and I look back. 352 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 15: John puts his hand on the courtroom door, looks at 353 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 15: me and says, gotcha. 354 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 16: He turned around and he walked back the other direction, 355 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 16: and I was just up against the wall, hoping he 356 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 16: wouldn't see me. 357 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 15: My attorney said, oh, hell no, we gotta get out 358 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 15: of here. 359 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 16: I'm scared. I'm letting my daughter know. Lock the doors, 360 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 16: don't answer if anybody comes to the door, because I 361 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 16: figured he would probably come there looking. 362 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 15: So we take the stairs to go down to the 363 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 15: police station and we explained to them what happened, and 364 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 15: can we please go out of their back door. They 365 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 15: say no, we need to go out the front door. 366 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 17: Just like everybody else, John was no joke. 367 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 15: I believed everything he said to me. He was gonna 368 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 15: kill me. It was gonna be a headshot, and he 369 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 15: was gonna bury me when nobody would be able to 370 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 15: find me. I was terrified, and the terror came because 371 00:21:54,680 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 15: nobody believed me. They thought I was being dramatic. They 372 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 15: were actually gonna let me die. And then what were 373 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 15: they going to say? Oh, she was a good old girl, 374 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 15: you know, she loved the children. We did not see 375 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 15: that coming, Yes you did. When I hear people say that, 376 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 15: oh I didn't see that, Yes you did. Victims always 377 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 15: give signs, they always tell somebody. So we walk out 378 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 15: of the court like a triangle where everybody's watching each 379 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 15: other's back. 380 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 16: Get to the car. 381 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 15: I slouched down in the car so no one could 382 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 15: see that I was in the car. We go over 383 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 15: to the Department of Health and Human Resources because that's 384 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 15: where my children were, and the first person I see 385 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 15: is my son. He's tall, he's skinny, he's trying to 386 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 15: wear afro, but it's in a dome, you know. And 387 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 15: I walk up to him and he got his pants 388 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 15: on his butt sagging. 389 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 16: Oh geez whiz. 390 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 15: And I should have said, honey, I'm so glad to 391 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 15: see you, but I'm pulling up his pants, sayings, this's 392 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 15: gonna be an issue, and he starts laughing. And then 393 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 15: I hear my daughters, mommy, mommy, mommy, they're coming down, 394 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 15: and I'm just so overwhelmed. 395 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 16: I'm crying might in my eyes. 396 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:20,719 Speaker 14: I can't see you. 397 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 16: I can't see you. 398 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 15: And Selena said, Mommy says, honey, Daddy said he was 399 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 15: looking for you, but he couldn't find you. I said, really, 400 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 15: I was trying to find you, but he changed your names. 401 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 15: So you were looking for us? Absolutely, Mommy. I just 402 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 15: want to let you know that God answered my prayer 403 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 15: because I was. 404 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 16: Praying and praying and praying for him. 405 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 15: To send you back to me, and you're finally here. 406 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 15: I say, honey, no one will have for take you 407 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 15: away from me again. 408 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,400 Speaker 16: Okay, okay. 409 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 15: So we get in the car and we drive over 410 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 15: to the airport. Security picked us up from the car, 411 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 15: brought us to their security office. Once the pilot was 412 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 15: ready to go, security took us to the plane. We 413 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 15: landed BWI September fifth, two thousand and one. 414 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 5: Did you speak to John again? 415 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 3: Now? 416 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:32,119 Speaker 10: Why would I? 417 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:34,479 Speaker 16: No career? 418 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 17: Why would I? 419 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 5: Did he ever try to reach out to you. 420 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 15: He didn't know where I was. I wasn't hiding. 421 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 5: So the last thing you remember hearing from John was 422 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 5: got you. 423 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 16: Yes. 424 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 13: One story is the John is just a psychotic killer. 425 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 13: I guess that's plausible. But the other story is that 426 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 13: he melted down under the pressure of not being ever 427 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 13: able to either see his kids or even get into 428 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 13: court to talk about seeing his kids. 429 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 5: This is J. 430 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 2: Mills, a divorce attorney who took on John's case at the. 431 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 13: Court hearing the kids were turned over to Mildred. The 432 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 13: judge did that on a temporary basis, told John Muhammad 433 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 13: that he should come back and set up a hearing 434 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 13: to discuss the kids further. And so it was after 435 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 13: that hearing where he lost the kids that he came 436 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 13: to see me. 437 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 2: Mills didn't know much about John's background. He thought John 438 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: was just going through a rough divorce. Mills actually felt 439 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 2: sorry for John, so he took on the case pro bono. 440 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 13: He was a pretty normal, routine sort of person, fairly focused. 441 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 13: He wasn't very happy about how things had turned out 442 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 13: in court, but he understood would had gone on. The 443 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 13: judge wasn't permanently depriving him of contact with the kids. 444 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 13: The judge wanted him to set up a hearing to 445 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 13: discuss what sort of a parenting plan would be appropriate, 446 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 13: and that's very routine. I did set up a hearing 447 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 13: which would require Mildred to show up in court and 448 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 13: then talk about the kids, but we never had a 449 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 13: court hearing because we can never find Mildred. Mildred vanished 450 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 13: with the kids. After I had set up a couple 451 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 13: of the hearings without being able to serve Mildred with papers, 452 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 13: I went to him and said, look, let's find Mildred. 453 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 13: Because I can set up hearings all day, but what 454 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 13: difference does it make if we can never locate Mildred? 455 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 13: And so he set off to do that. I've given 456 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 13: this story to other people, and sometimes the blowback is 457 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 13: that I am trying to justify what John did, or 458 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 13: that I don't think he's a bad guy. I mean, clearly, 459 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 13: the guy is a bad person with very, very severe problems, 460 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 13: and I wouldn't try to justify that. But there's more 461 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 13: to this story. These preliminary decisions get made, and people 462 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 13: freak out about him because they're dealing with people's real 463 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 13: personal lives and their intimate relationships with kids. People who 464 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 13: go through the process get really disturbed by that. And 465 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 13: I've been involved in a number of cases where the 466 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,959 Speaker 13: end result is shootings. Tacoma was fairly famous for an 467 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 13: incident where the chief of police shot is soon to 468 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 13: be ex wife and killed her. That was the chief 469 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 13: of police, right, so that guy must have had some 470 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 13: degree of normal personality, but then he lost it and 471 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 13: he melted down. And it's not uncommon for these things 472 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 13: to result in a lot of violence. One way to 473 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 13: hopefully avoid that. If it's possible is to have people 474 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 13: air their grievances in court, win or lose, they've at 475 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 13: least been able to tell their story or Now. I'm 476 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 13: not saying that that should require Mildred to come stand 477 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 13: with John by her side, but John Muhammed's out there. 478 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 13: There was some process that could have played out where 479 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 13: everybody could have had their day in court, and he 480 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 13: never did so. I again, I try to make clear 481 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 13: that I think what he did was horrific, and. 482 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 5: I think it's it's just evil stuff. 483 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 13: But the kind of background story to it that should 484 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 13: be aired is that I think there were ways that 485 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 13: the system failed to diffuse that kind of problem, and 486 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 13: instead it just sort of threw gasoline on a fire. 487 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 13: If we do not address the systemic failures that occurred 488 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 13: in this case, I worry that there are other people 489 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 13: like that wandering the streets, and people are going to 490 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 13: die if this problem isn't addressed in a better way. 491 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: Just a week after John lost, the Kid's tragedy struck. 492 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 11: Apparently a plane has just crashed into the World Trade 493 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 11: Center here and knew New York City had happened just 494 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 11: a few moments ago. 495 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 13: I had been meeting with John in my office when 496 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 13: the World Trade Center was burning to the ground. He 497 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 13: had no interest in any of the politics. He wanted 498 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 13: to see his kids. 499 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 2: John would later say that losing his kids was his 500 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 2: own personal nine to eleven. It was surely a low 501 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 2: point in his life. He'd lost his money in the 502 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 2: rate of Antigua, he was living in a homeless shelter, 503 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 2: and now he'd lost his children. John's friend Robert Holmes, 504 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 2: the same friend who reported John to the FBI, says 505 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 2: John was devastated. Holmes told Vanity Fair in two thousand 506 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 2: and four, quote, I think that after his kids got 507 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 2: taken away, John had a nervous breakdown. I'm not a 508 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 2: professor or a doctor, but John changed in a million 509 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: subtle ways. He'd spend all day some days just crying. 510 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 2: All he could think of was getting his kids back. 511 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 5: Back. 512 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 2: In Fort Myers, Florida, Lee Boyd Malva was also struggling. 513 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 2: He was trying to adjust to yet another new living situation. 514 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 2: Lee had enrolled as a junior at Cypress Lake High School. 515 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 2: He was getting good grades in his classes, but he 516 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 2: was struggling to navigate the American system. Lee wanted to 517 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 2: go to college and one day become an airline pilot, 518 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 2: but he didn't have the necessary documentation to sign up 519 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 2: for the SATs, so he turned to John for help. 520 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 2: Una thought that John had been a bad influence on 521 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 2: her son and had forbidden Lee from talking to him, 522 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 2: But on weeknights, while Una worked at Red Lobster, John 523 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:40,959 Speaker 2: would secretly. 524 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 3: Call I was unable to distinguish between Mohammad's father I 525 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 3: had wanted and Mohammad and nervous wrecks. That was his 526 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 3: falling to pieces. 527 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: John told Lee he could get him into college, but 528 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 2: John wanted something in return, and he needed Lee to 529 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 2: join him in Washington. Fired leave money for a greyhound ticket. 530 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 2: Lee says that sometime late in two thousand and one, 531 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 2: after his mother fell asleep, he packed up his clothes, 532 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 2: a tennis racket, and a portable CD player. He snuck 533 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 2: out of the house at four thirty am and got 534 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 2: on a bus headed northwest. Lee arrived in Bellingham, Washington 535 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 2: a week later. 536 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 3: When I first arrived in Bellingham, he told me that 537 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 3: he's searching for the children. He said, in order to 538 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 3: get the children, we're going to have to do whatever 539 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 3: it takes. I looked at him as my family, and 540 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 3: they had my siblings, so I'm like, okay, we're going 541 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 3: to do whatever it takes. I didn't understand, but that 542 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 3: man at the. 543 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 10: Time I read. 544 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 2: In Bellingham, John introduced Lee to everyone as his son. 545 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 2: Lee stayed with John at the homeless shelter and soon 546 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 2: enrolled at Bellingham High School, but one school was out 547 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 2: for the day. Lee says, John was of his education. 548 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 3: Day in day out. He controlled what I read, what 549 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 3: I did, what I ad when I slept, in every 550 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 3: single aspect from diets, studies, my activities, every single aspect 551 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 3: and fastt of my life. And he didn't give me 552 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 3: a time to rest. He understood exactly how to motivate 553 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 3: me by giving approval or denying approval, and he verse 554 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 3: it wasn't violent at all. It was I mean, it's 555 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 3: like with a temp does to a woman. That's the 556 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 3: best description I can offer. 557 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 2: Sometimes they'd leave the homeless shelter in Bellingham and stay 558 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 2: with John's friends in Tacoma. One friend they would often 559 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 2: visit was Earl Dante, the friend you heard from earlier 560 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 2: who photoshopped a birth certificate for John. 561 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 12: John didn't dress up as much the more he wasn't 562 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 12: flashing more. He had come around her with a white truck. 563 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 12: One time he popped my door and had leave with him. Hey, Earl, 564 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,479 Speaker 12: this is my son Lee. Oh, how you don't want 565 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 12: to call a processor? That'd be a nice to you. 566 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 2: After a while at Dante's, Lee says they would play 567 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 2: video games and watch movies. They'd watch some movies over 568 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 2: and over. One favorite was The Matrix. Another was Carlos 569 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: Hathcock Marine Sniper. It was a sort of instructional video 570 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 2: with advice for snipers. 571 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 5: Continue your training. You cannot do it too much. You 572 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 5: cannot do it too much, So do it as much 573 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 5: as you can. Put all your men and body into it. 574 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 11: Train Train, Train. 575 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 2: And John and Earl began giving Lee's shooting lessons as well. 576 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 3: He had a friend Earl. He just said, look, I 577 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 3: need you to go to the range and just tell early. 578 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 3: Teach me how to shoot. It's amazing how quickly I 579 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 3: would pick on these things. 580 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 10: Let go shooting. 581 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 12: I couldn't go as often as he could because I 582 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 12: had to work. He is a I'm gonna take your 583 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 12: god to the range. So okay, I had a six 584 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 12: hour forty five. I had a smith and Wesson forty 585 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 12: four caliber. I had a AK forty seven, I had 586 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 12: a Winchester TO seventy, and I had a Remington seven 587 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 12: hundred Model three eight series and a Twin to calibist. 588 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 2: Back in Florida, Lee's mom, Una James, had been searching 589 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 2: for Lee since he'd left. Una paged through her caller 590 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 2: ID and found a strange number. It was for a 591 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 2: homeless shelter in Washington State, and she had a feeling 592 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 2: that Lee might be staying there with John. So for 593 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 2: weeks she called the number but could never get through 594 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 2: to either of them. In an interview with Vanity Fair, 595 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 2: Una said that she kept calling and one day finally 596 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 2: she heard John's voice on the other end. She demanded 597 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 2: that John Sendley back to her in Florida. She remembers 598 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 2: John saying, I have a job to do and I 599 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: can't rely on some cookeead to do it. Terrified of 600 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 2: what that meant, Una got on a Greyhound bus and 601 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 2: headed for Washington State. When Una arrived, she confronted John 602 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 2: at the homeless shelter and some one called the cops. 603 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 2: When the cops arrived, they reunited Lee and Una, but 604 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 2: the cops suspected they were both undocumented immigrants, and reported 605 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 2: them to Border Patrol. They were arrested and finger printed. 606 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,800 Speaker 2: These were the finger prints and the rest report that 607 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 2: would later supply authorities with the names Lee Boyd Malvow 608 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 2: and John Mohammad. Following their arrest, Una and Lee were 609 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 2: separated and detained. Then on January twenty third, both were 610 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 2: released into an I and S safe house to await 611 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 2: a deportation hearing. In an interview at Vanity Fair, Una 612 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 2: said that Lee told her mom, we are being followed 613 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:49,919 Speaker 2: and if I don't go, they'll kill you. Two days later, 614 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 2: Lee climbed out of a bathroom window and ran off. 615 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 2: Lee ran back to John. 616 00:35:59,480 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 5: Now. 617 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 2: Lee's grooming began in earnest. Lee says he and John 618 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 2: would go shooting for hours a day. 619 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 3: He'd stand behind me and he would taught me through 620 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 3: the process. He would explain to me all the things 621 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 3: that I hated about myself and why this has to die. 622 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 2: Lee Boyd Malvoe says John told him to visualize his 623 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 2: own face onto the targets, to imagine that with each 624 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 2: shot he was destroying his own weakness. 625 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 3: Heat needs killed myself over and over and over and over. 626 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:38,359 Speaker 3: He told me, the old person has to die. Lee 627 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 3: Malville has to die it because Lee Malvau cannot do this. 628 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 2: Lee says they would go to nearby woods and pretend 629 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 2: they were hunting each other with sniper rifles to practice 630 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 2: stealth and camouflage techniques. Lee says that on one of 631 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 2: those outings, when it was snowing, John stripped off Lee's 632 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 2: shirt and chained him to a tree. John left him 633 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 2: there for hours and told him it was an exercise 634 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,280 Speaker 2: to mentally hardened him. 635 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 3: It's like a woman messing in a music relationship. Someone 636 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 3: looking from the outside said, man, they're a multiple opportunities. 637 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 3: Why couldn't she leave? Why she stayed for twenty years? 638 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 3: It's not that simple. The body is just obsessed. Once 639 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 3: someone has me emotionally, they have your mind. 640 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 2: Lee Boyd Malvo's training was almost over. Soon John would 641 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 2: give him his first real mission. Not too far away 642 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 2: in Tacoma, Ia, Nichols had been keeping in touch with 643 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 2: Mildred Muhammad. 644 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 16: We were having different conversations, probably maybe once or twice 645 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 16: a month as she begins to re establish her life 646 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 16: after eighteen months without her children. 647 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 2: Isa was glad all the drama with John seemed to 648 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 2: be over and that the kids were back with their mom. 649 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 16: My life was so intertwined with hers in terms of 650 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 16: her children and keeping her alive and keeping her safe. 651 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,240 Speaker 16: Now I'm faced with where I left off in my life. 652 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 2: Asa had her own struggles at home. Her niece, Kenya Cook, 653 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 2: had just gotten out of an abusive relationship. 654 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,399 Speaker 16: Before they had fought, but they had a baby. Now 655 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 16: now she's scared for the baby, and she's decided to leave. 656 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,399 Speaker 16: And I said, yes, I'll take her home. She can 657 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 16: come with me. So now I have her, her three 658 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 16: month old child, my teenage daughter who's now fourteen, and 659 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 16: my husband, and it's working. I'm very proud of her. 660 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 16: She's enrolling in school. She had gotten a job and 661 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 16: got up to a supervisory position, and the baby's thriving, 662 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 16: and Kenya saving money. She was helping me around the house, 663 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 16: and we would go shopping together and different things of 664 00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 16: that nature. And one day, February sixteenth, two thousand and two, 665 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 16: we had went grocery shopping and I was gonna make 666 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 16: some chicken tacos that I do pretty good, and we 667 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 16: forgot the taco shells, and so I was going back 668 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 16: to the store I told Kenya to watch the food 669 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 16: in the pot because I was boiling the chicken, and 670 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 16: she said, okay, Auntie and I left, and then my 671 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 16: fourteen year old, who was at a sleepover, decided she 672 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 16: didn't want to stay, so she called me and asked 673 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 16: me to come pick her up, and I did, and 674 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 16: then we went to the store. We were gone about 675 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 16: an hour, maybe an hour and a half, and I 676 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,279 Speaker 16: pull in and our driveway remote control wasn't working. So 677 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 16: I sent my daughter into the house to open the 678 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 16: garage door, and I'm waiting. Garage door doesn't open, and 679 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 16: my daughter finally comes back to the car and she's 680 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 16: standing there and it's starting to rain, and I said, hey, 681 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 16: what are you doing. My daughter has the look of 682 00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 16: trauma on her face. I said, girl, what is it? 683 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 16: What's wrong? She sent Mommy, Kenya's lying on the floor 684 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 16: and the house is all smoky. So I go to 685 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 16: the house and just as she said, my niece was 686 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 16: lying on the floor in the doorway, and the house 687 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 16: was covered with smoke. The pot and its contents had 688 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,439 Speaker 16: disintegrated and melted. And so somehow, by the grace of God, 689 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 16: I was able to get that stove turned off with 690 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 16: all of that heat, my daughter standing in the doorway, 691 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 16: just staring. I called nine one one. I ran upstairs 692 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 16: to check on the baby, because I'm thinking that they 693 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 16: had to succumb to smoke in elation. And so I 694 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 16: ran upstairs and the baby was on the edge of 695 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 16: the bed. All around her was the diaper, the nighty 696 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 16: wram bottle was still there, and I didn't know if 697 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 16: the baby was alive or not. I didn't know if 698 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,280 Speaker 16: the baby was breathing, and so I touched the baby 699 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 16: gently and she jumps up and she's screaming from where 700 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 16: she left. So I grabbed the baby diaper and took 701 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 16: the baby downstairs, and handed the baby to my daughter 702 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 16: and told her to go to the neighbors and went 703 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 16: back to Kenya. And I got over Kenya's body and 704 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 16: I saw a little bullet casey and a little hole 705 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 16: in her face. I stayed there. I had already called 706 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 16: nine one one, and I can hear the ambulance in 707 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 16: the background. They're on their way, and I'm talking to 708 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 16: Kenya hanging there and I'm praying and I'm telling her 709 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 16: help is coming, and the ambulance get there, and I'm 710 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,320 Speaker 16: sitting on the step and they come into the house 711 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,879 Speaker 16: and they get her body and they pull her from 712 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 16: the fourier into the living room where they start working 713 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 16: on her, trying to revive her. And they finally say 714 00:41:54,920 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 16: she's gone. And I just stared and looked in just dismay. 715 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,600 Speaker 16: I couldn't process what they meant by saying she's gone. 716 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 16: And I saw where Kenya's head had laid. The bullet 717 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 16: casing was still there, and I just saw blood. The 718 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 16: back of her head had just been blown out. I 719 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 16: just went into a cold state. I was just on 720 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:33,720 Speaker 16: auto pilot. I was just following commands. 721 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:44,239 Speaker 2: According to Lee's autobiography, that very same night, John Muhammad 722 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 2: gave Lee his first test. 723 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,719 Speaker 3: One night, he says, Okay, this is what I need 724 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 3: for you to do. There was a house on the hill. 725 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 3: I want you to go there. I want you to go. 726 00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 3: I want you to talk to this parson. 727 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,040 Speaker 2: Lee says, John drove him to a house, ranting about 728 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,839 Speaker 2: politics and wars and necessary sacrifices. John dropped Lee off 729 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 2: and told him he'd be watching. Lee was wearing a 730 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 2: dark hoodie and he was holding a brown paper bag. 731 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 2: He tried to calm himself as he walked up to 732 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 2: the house. He knocked on the door, and after a 733 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,359 Speaker 2: short delay, it opened. A young woman greeted him. He said, 734 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 2: good evening, is missus Nicholls in. He remembered that she 735 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 2: seemed lonely and eager to talk. She gave him a 736 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 2: long answer, explaining that Isa was at home. John had 737 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 2: prepared Lee for this possibility. I have a message for her, 738 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 2: Lee said. He reached into the brown paper bag and 739 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 2: pulled out a forty five caliber pistol, one they borrowed 740 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,799 Speaker 2: from Earl Dance. John had told Lee to visualize his 741 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,400 Speaker 2: own face on top of hers, just like in the training. 742 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,840 Speaker 2: Here's what Lee wrote about that moment in his autobiography, 743 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 2: read by a voice actor. 744 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 6: A voice deep inside me said, don't, don't, don't, I thought, Lee, 745 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,320 Speaker 6: you cannot face John unless you do this. I pointed 746 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 6: the forty five caliber gun to her face, and in 747 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 6: an instant I saw not her but me, my old 748 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 6: self that I hated, that scared hurt self. That night, 749 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 6: Lee boy Malvo died. I pulled the trigger. In an instant, 750 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 6: she too was gone. 751 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 2: Next time on Monster DC Sniper, I. 752 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 16: Was sudden, there's these helicopters flying all over the Tacoma community. 753 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:01,000 Speaker 16: They are actually saying the DC Sniper is linked to Tacoma. 754 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,240 Speaker 8: Again a note found, this time it's an angry note. 755 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,360 Speaker 1: You did not respond to the message. 756 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,800 Speaker 5: You departed from what we told you to say. 757 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,320 Speaker 1: Your incompetence has cost you another life. 758 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,239 Speaker 8: We need to find these guys, and we need to 759 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:15,919 Speaker 8: do it now. 760 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 7: She's got sources telling her that they're getting close, that 761 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 7: they have names, and that they have a vehicle that 762 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 7: they're looking for. 763 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 8: By about nine thirty ten o'clock at night, we had it. 764 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 8: We knew who we were looking for, we knew what 765 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,879 Speaker 8: they were in. We just didn't know where to find them. 766 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 8: When do we release the information about the Caprice to 767 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:37,200 Speaker 8: the media. 768 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,759 Speaker 7: Police were there to see if John Muhamma showed up. 769 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 7: While we were down there, we got a call on 770 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,760 Speaker 7: I seventy in northern Maryland. They believe that the snipers 771 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 7: are there and they're waiting. 772 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:47,480 Speaker 5: To move in. 773 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 1: Monster DZ Sniper is a fifteen episode podcast hosted by 774 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:58,520 Speaker 1: Tony Harris and produced by iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. Matt 775 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 1: Frederick and Alex Williams are executive producers on behalf of 776 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:06,439 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio alongside producers Trevor Young, Ben Keebrick, and Josh Thain. 777 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 1: Paint Lindsay and Donald Albright are executive producers on behalf 778 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 1: of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producers Meredith Stedman and Christina Dana. 779 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,800 Speaker 1: Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. This episode 780 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: included segments of a phone interview with Lee Boyd Malvo 781 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,480 Speaker 1: conducted by journalist Josh White. This interview was from The 782 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:31,120 Speaker 1: Washington Post copyright twenty twelve The Washington Post, All rights reserved, 783 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,839 Speaker 1: used under license. This episode also included a passage from 784 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,840 Speaker 1: Lee Boyd Malvo's autobiography, The Diary of the d C Sniper, 785 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,920 Speaker 1: re enacted by actor Alec Bay. This episode included a 786 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 1: recorded interview of Earl Donza provided by the Tucson Police Department. 787 00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: Earl Donzi was contacted by our team for this podcast, 788 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:51,720 Speaker 1: but he did not respond for comment.