Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely
Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't
Speaker 1: predict anything presented by first like creating proven, versatile hunting
Speaker 1: apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for every hunt.
Speaker 1: First light, Go farther, stay longer. All right, everybody, We're
Speaker 1: coming from Michigan's Upper Peninsula the u P and uh.
Speaker 1: Here was Sean Weaver, who has been pain right now
Speaker 1: to be recording up stupid podcast in the cold gray
Speaker 1: light of dawn on the duck hunt, right at sunrise,
Speaker 1: recording a podcast. It's just it's just it should be illegal.
Speaker 1: But the way it worked out, like Phil's here all
Speaker 1: the way, all the way to to to take his
Speaker 1: engineering abilities on the road, that's true. Did you have
Speaker 1: fun yesterday, Phil out dock Hutton. Oh yeah, no, it
Speaker 1: was a blast. Especially. I mean, we'll get into it later.
Speaker 1: But seeing those boats here we're using and everything, it
Speaker 1: was something I was not aware of. You weren't aware
Speaker 1: a layoff boats, not at all. Yeah. Um, the last
Speaker 1: time we were this is a different experience because the
Speaker 1: last time we were on the road together to record
Speaker 1: a show, we got to go to a tiki bar.
Speaker 1: That's true. Well, here's the thing. I was planning on
Speaker 1: going by myself. I wasn't going to subject you to that.
Speaker 1: And then for some reason you and cal Rourke, Denver,
Speaker 1: your your wife all decided to join. Uh and it
Speaker 1: was embarrassing for you to witness me in that in
Speaker 1: that sort of space. But was it your birthday or
Speaker 1: my anniversary? Was my wedding anniversary? And we shared a
Speaker 1: drink out of a pineapple? It's pretty covid people. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was the birth of COVID Yeah, that's it was February.
Speaker 1: It was the fane. Well, yeah, we're at the National
Speaker 1: Wild Turkey Federation. There's no way of knowing, but us
Speaker 1: sharing that drink could have you know, it could have
Speaker 1: spread it. Yeah, it was the pineapple. Okay. So Phil's here,
Speaker 1: joined by Sean Weaver and also Dylan Grapes Michigan Native
Speaker 1: Lake State University. Did you graduate alone? What's your study?
Speaker 1: Fishers in wildlife? You did? Man? Everybody I know that
Speaker 1: went there did that. I haven't used it yet, but
Speaker 1: I got it. Well, no, you use it like he
Speaker 1: use it like a like what it was meant for? Man? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got a major in duck hunting. You don't feel
Speaker 1: that you ever killed Have you ever killed a duck?
Speaker 1: You wouldn't have killed if you hadn't gone to Lake
Speaker 1: State and learned something. Um probably not, Probably not. I've
Speaker 1: forked out a lot of money to kill one extra Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd like, yeah, I want It makes me returned to
Speaker 1: a thing that uh, Pat Durkin said, I think on
Speaker 1: this podcast where he was talking about what he Pat
Speaker 1: Durkin used to be the He us to be the
Speaker 1: editor of Deer and Deer Hunting magazine, and so he
Speaker 1: got to spent a lot of time with him profile
Speaker 1: a lot of like sort of the most famous big
Speaker 1: bark killers on the planet, and he gradually became disheartened
Speaker 1: because he said that somehow many of them, um as
Speaker 1: polished as they are at killing deer, would be incapable
Speaker 1: of telling you what kind of tree their tree stand
Speaker 1: is in. And he wanted it to be otherwise, right,
Speaker 1: you know, But it's good that you got like a
Speaker 1: fish and wildlife deal. Yeah. I enjoyed it, and it
Speaker 1: brought me to this area that I'd really never explored
Speaker 1: a whole lot. And I got four years to drive
Speaker 1: around and look at all sorts of ship and so
Speaker 1: you start, you started. Yeah, I I came up here
Speaker 1: in two thousand and fifteen, was my freshman year. And then, uh,
Speaker 1: you did it because of the hunting potential. The bid
Speaker 1: then for me was that when you lived on campus,
Speaker 1: at our public safety you could like check in your shotgun,
Speaker 1: so you could if you lived in the dorms, you
Speaker 1: could put your gun at the public safety and then
Speaker 1: you could go in and check it out, go hunted,
Speaker 1: and back in. And so you lived in dorms. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my first two years. See when I was up here,
Speaker 1: we got a waiver somehow or another. They had like
Speaker 1: a let a sign off you could do that. They
Speaker 1: had to approve if you want to live within the
Speaker 1: first two years. But I did the dorm dorm life
Speaker 1: for two years and then moved off. It's interested to
Speaker 1: this place. I'm glad to hear that lake, the Lake
Speaker 1: state and the up still sucks in hunting fishing kids
Speaker 1: from downstate because me and my brother, uh, they both
Speaker 1: wanted to do fishing wildlife. So we all did community college,
Speaker 1: which we call like thirteenth grade skiing community college. UM,
Speaker 1: and then they came up here. I came up and
Speaker 1: did one year. But I was like, I wanted to
Speaker 1: be a writer by that point mostly, so I only
Speaker 1: did one semester here and then went back down state
Speaker 1: where you could get like a writing whatever the hell?
Speaker 1: Yeah at Grand Valley. But then we hung out here.
Speaker 1: If this is our primary hangout for years up here
Speaker 1: to fish, steel ahead, yeah, everything else man, hunting, deer, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's all sorts of If you just kind of get
Speaker 1: out and you know, explore, you can find all the
Speaker 1: fishing and hunting opportunities you want. Oh it's amazing, man.
Speaker 1: And it's like a thirty minute drive. It's not. You're
Speaker 1: not ranging like you find out in the West where
Speaker 1: you gotta go few everything four hours. Yeah. No, that's
Speaker 1: a good spot. Man. So so now you're you're a
Speaker 1: waterfowl guide yep, but you work out in Kansas. I
Speaker 1: died out in Kansas. Um for bid Kansas Outdoors And then, um,
Speaker 1: what's that place we're out of, Hutchinson? Um do you
Speaker 1: recommend it? Oh? Yeah, really good? People? Would you tell
Speaker 1: me if you didn't recommend it that that'd put you
Speaker 1: in a weird spot? As long as Ben's not listening
Speaker 1: to the podcast now, I I uh last year is
Speaker 1: my first year. UM. I really didn't really enjoyed it. UM.
Speaker 1: It was completely different for me. UM coming from Michigan
Speaker 1: where you're hunting honkers and going out there and you're
Speaker 1: hunting lessers and specks and snows, and that was just
Speaker 1: completely different. UM. So I had to there was a
Speaker 1: big learning curve. UM. I'm sure I'll learn more this
Speaker 1: year too. But there's a lot of birds. Everybody at
Speaker 1: the at the business does their part. Everybody works hard,
Speaker 1: and so that was clients on birds. But that was
Speaker 1: your first year. I'm just I'm confused. So last year
Speaker 1: was your first year guiding there or first year as
Speaker 1: a guide ever, um, first year guiding there, And I
Speaker 1: did a few controlled uh pheasant hunts here in Michigan
Speaker 1: as branches um, but that was about it. And then
Speaker 1: obviously out there is like four and a half months
Speaker 1: of guiding, so it's a grind UM. And then I
Speaker 1: come back here and this year I have a good
Speaker 1: buddy uh kind of central up that runs bear hunts,
Speaker 1: and I went out there and I helped him run
Speaker 1: bear clients UM in September, and then I ran a
Speaker 1: few hunter hunts up here too. So when you're doing
Speaker 1: the bear clients, you guys are it's it's like draw
Speaker 1: tech eggs, but you're running. You're running baits in September YEP.
Speaker 1: So it's all we have a point system for our
Speaker 1: bear tags here, um, and then we run. We took
Speaker 1: on twenty clients and we run thirty five different baits. UM,
Speaker 1: so we stay busy. Do you just get big bears? Um?
Speaker 1: We had a lot on camera. The biggest bear we
Speaker 1: killed us three hundred pounds, which for mission, our average
Speaker 1: black bears a pounds. That's a good bear. But we
Speaker 1: had a lot of pictures, you know, four or five pounders.
Speaker 1: But when you get clients in the stand that have
Speaker 1: never seen a bear before, the smaller ones is always
Speaker 1: trying to come in first. When that one watchs then
Speaker 1: to them it looks like the four hundred pounder and
Speaker 1: they shoot it. But we didn't have like when I
Speaker 1: lived in Lower Lower Peninsula, we didn't have bear hunting.
Speaker 1: There was just there was bear hunting a little bit
Speaker 1: north of us. We didn't have bear hunting where we live,
Speaker 1: so like, bear tags weren't really on our radar. UM. Well,
Speaker 1: my brother Danny started going to school up here. He
Speaker 1: right away drew a bear tag. So we started going
Speaker 1: out and U shooting carp with our bows, which isn't
Speaker 1: the best. Baby didn't really know what we're doing. And
Speaker 1: I had a big freezer already used to freeze like
Speaker 1: muskrats and stuff during trapping season. We filled that thing
Speaker 1: up with bags of carp um that we shot with
Speaker 1: our bows. And so he started. He started a little
Speaker 1: bait stationed up here and right away killed and I
Speaker 1: remember he had a nice one. He killed like a
Speaker 1: two pound boar um right away. And then my other
Speaker 1: brother when he came up here, he got a bear
Speaker 1: tag and he went and did like the thing where
Speaker 1: you go around and get expired. Yeah, you know, remember
Speaker 1: it so funny. He came into a case of bugles.
Speaker 1: You know, it was like little bugles. Yeah, put him
Speaker 1: on your fingers or you get cheese. Like I remember
Speaker 1: a guy used to when I was working for doing
Speaker 1: a millwright work for Ronnie Bam, there was a guy
Speaker 1: that he had who had had too many d u
Speaker 1: s and couldn't drive anymore. So I was like his
Speaker 1: basing his chauffeur because he knew how to do a
Speaker 1: lot of the jobs. So I became like I had
Speaker 1: to drive him around because he couldn't drive, and that
Speaker 1: learned how to do all of it. The stuff he did.
Speaker 1: His favorite treat on Friday night driving back from the
Speaker 1: job is he get bugles in a thing of squirt
Speaker 1: cheese in black olves. And he liked to fill that
Speaker 1: bugle up with squirt cheese, top it with a black
Speaker 1: olive and eat it while he's going down the road.
Speaker 1: And you can imagine he had a drink accompaniment. So anyhow,
Speaker 1: like my brother wander around out in the woods, and
Speaker 1: I even have a picture of him, like he's like
Speaker 1: standing there with like all these bugles, but he'd always
Speaker 1: have a box the bugles under his arm and he'd
Speaker 1: be eating the bugles. But then he's like dumped him.
Speaker 1: Then he dumped some of the box into the bait thing.
Speaker 1: But it finally becomes the first day and he comes
Speaker 1: out there with a He goes out there with a
Speaker 1: bucket to add the bait pile, right, and he goes
Speaker 1: and dumps the bucket on the bait pile. And he's
Speaker 1: getting situated in his blind and realize that ship I
Speaker 1: left a bucket at the bait pile. So he says
Speaker 1: he spins to look and there's already a bear standing
Speaker 1: there and that was his bear. Nice just like very productive.
Speaker 1: Did he did he topped the pile off with squirt
Speaker 1: cheese and all it. No, No, I don't know. That
Speaker 1: was a different guy straight that would have brought him,
Speaker 1: would have brought in the big ones. But yeah, man,
Speaker 1: it was a whole other world, you know living up here. Man. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's uh eating, get away from people, and it's kind
Speaker 1: of nice. It's quiet, hum and there's lots of wildlife,
Speaker 1: lots of good opportunities to get out, even if you're
Speaker 1: not like in hunting fishing, if you just you know,
Speaker 1: you want to hike, you know, it's a qualmenton falls
Speaker 1: is right here pictured rocks. I mean, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of good seeing sight to go, you know, to go
Speaker 1: and look at Yeah, and I did up here what
Speaker 1: would have been almost like unimaginable where we grew up hunting.
Speaker 1: Is as soon as I moved up here, I got
Speaker 1: one day, I got too deer with my bow. And
Speaker 1: one day which should have taken three years, taken three
Speaker 1: years in some of the ground we used to hunting,
Speaker 1: you know down below. Yeah, it's the deer hunts definitely
Speaker 1: not what it used to be, that's what I've heard.
Speaker 1: But our our wolf population is getting pretty big. I
Speaker 1: remember cutting my first wolf track up here, um and
Speaker 1: being very surprised by it. Yeah you know, but now yeah,
Speaker 1: but in those days, it was like thirty five what
Speaker 1: do they talked about, like thirty five deer per square
Speaker 1: miles and stuff. Man, just it was unbelievable, and the
Speaker 1: bad winnard coming. They'd be like yarded up and starved
Speaker 1: to death everywhere, and it was wild. Yeah, yeah, we've
Speaker 1: got you know, obviously we ran all the bear baits
Speaker 1: and uh, it wasn't uncommon that at least one of
Speaker 1: your baits every night had wolves on it. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: we have pictures like three four wolves and one trail
Speaker 1: camp picture on your baits and they'll they'll rip them
Speaker 1: right open, move all the logs right out of the way,
Speaker 1: and oh yeah, they'll run the bear right off. Huh.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Sucks for us. But you don't do any
Speaker 1: fur trapping to you. I do not. Um. The buddy
Speaker 1: mine that owns the company, his name is John ron Um.
Speaker 1: What's his name, John ron huh um enough, uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like a weird thing, Like it's not his fault, man,
Speaker 1: it's a weird thing parents do now and then you know,
Speaker 1: therefore I think of Jonathan Ron. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if his full name is longer. I
Speaker 1: know his dad is also John Ron, So he's like
Speaker 1: Ron John Shirts surf shop. Right, He's he's a junior,
Speaker 1: but his company is you Per Outdoors nine oh SIPs
Speaker 1: and he does his big things bears, but he does
Speaker 1: he actually takes uh trapping clients and basically the clients
Speaker 1: will come in and try up with him and like
Speaker 1: run the line with him, and then they get to
Speaker 1: kind of see how it's done and like the ins
Speaker 1: and outs of it because they're because they're doing like
Speaker 1: a class, they want to learn it or they want
Speaker 1: to experience it both. And then, um, so they try
Speaker 1: to see how it's done, you know, what to look for,
Speaker 1: how to do it, um, and then hopefully they get
Speaker 1: something and then um, he'll take te him you know,
Speaker 1: tannent and everything. And then they did to take the
Speaker 1: belt back with him. Yeah, so he's just trying to
Speaker 1: get into that. And then he just got his captain's license. Um,
Speaker 1: so he's running started next year, he's going to start
Speaker 1: doing uh late trout j in on late Superior and
Speaker 1: then uh Walleye trips as well. Real go get her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's he's really good, dude. When I took when I
Speaker 1: was in high school, you'll know this name because of
Speaker 1: where you're from. When I was in high school, I
Speaker 1: took a day of trapping lessons for two and fifty
Speaker 1: bucks from Mark June, who when for prices plummeted, he
Speaker 1: became like a big deer guy, like a big white
Speaker 1: tail started doing like white tail products and all that.
Speaker 1: You know that name Sean Yep. Yeah, day at trapping lessons.
Speaker 1: M I I personally have never relayed on it, but
Speaker 1: I know it's it's been around here. I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you if you're allowed because back in the old days,
Speaker 1: you were allowed two river rotters here per year, and
Speaker 1: you're only allowed one river otter per year in the
Speaker 1: southern part of the the the northern half of the
Speaker 1: southern part of the state. So it's cool because you
Speaker 1: can catch two up here. Yeah. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's still too or if it's down to one, but oh,
Speaker 1: SHAWNA wanna returned to something. Yeah, this is your second
Speaker 1: time on the show. Second time. The first time you
Speaker 1: were on the show, we were with your friend who
Speaker 1: blew his toes off with Danny to toe Morrison who
Speaker 1: blew his toes off in a layout blind. And what's
Speaker 1: funny about this is yesterday we were hunting and layout
Speaker 1: boats and I, at first I was trying to figure out,
Speaker 1: like where I wanted a shotgun delay. Um, I thought
Speaker 1: about your friend blowing his toes off, layoff, aware of like,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden I should not put Then I
Speaker 1: put it together that you would not only blow your
Speaker 1: toes off in a layout boat, but you would then sink.
Speaker 1: And so then I was like, oh, that's why one
Speaker 1: would never ever third barrel inside the boat. It'll be
Speaker 1: bad news. Yeah. In thirty five water joined also by
Speaker 1: our very own sitting here the first person to ever
Speaker 1: uh be on this show. In birken Stocks, Robert Stocks
Speaker 1: introduceself Max. My name is Max Barta, and um, I'm
Speaker 1: a camera guy. Are those actual burken stocks? Do you? Um?
Speaker 1: Do you tend to side with the like? Do you
Speaker 1: have a lot of conspiracy theories? Do you think kem
Speaker 1: like our cam trails and stuff like that? You just
Speaker 1: like them. They're comfy, They're like crocs but more fashionable.
Speaker 1: Is that right, listen? I have Yeah, I like him.
Speaker 1: I'm not down on him. I think it's great. Have
Speaker 1: you tried them before? No? I never have. Kind of
Speaker 1: what's that you can put them on for a while
Speaker 1: to day. If I put them on, I start going
Speaker 1: right on, right on. You don't know what's working. You're like,
Speaker 1: so your longtime production partners with Sean um it's been
Speaker 1: about I think this is our fifth year working together. Sex. Yeah,
Speaker 1: working together, So you don't you don't you know what
Speaker 1: you need to realize. One thing I like about Sean,
Speaker 1: and it makes me like about you, is how loyal
Speaker 1: Sean is. Yeah, we didn't know each other, but when
Speaker 1: we're trying to get Sean to come work for us,
Speaker 1: Sean was like, there's just only one way this will happen,
Speaker 1: and that it's Max comes to to the point where
Speaker 1: he legitimately would have not come work for us, who
Speaker 1: always asked? I definitely. So I was either like, either
Speaker 1: Sean is the most loyal dude on the planet or
Speaker 1: Max is the greatest dude on the planet. But either way,
Speaker 1: either way it seems like a win, right yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I mean, Sean, I have been working together, like we
Speaker 1: said about for six years, and we found out right
Speaker 1: away what worked and what didn't. We just stuck with it.
Speaker 1: So and you guys have done the you guys have
Speaker 1: done a lot of the waterfowl work together, but also
Speaker 1: predator stuff. Yeah, we've been chasing fur and feathers for
Speaker 1: a long time. Is that the main is that the
Speaker 1: main thing you guys work on though, Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: part of like working with Max and me wanting to
Speaker 1: have Max come along is there's few not a lot
Speaker 1: of people can handle the road time of traveling chasing ducks,
Speaker 1: and like we've been on the road for two and
Speaker 1: a half weeks now, there's not a whole lot of
Speaker 1: production people that, like, I want to be on the
Speaker 1: road chasing ducks for two and a half weeks. I
Speaker 1: think they think they do right until it happens. You
Speaker 1: guys ever getting big, huge fights. Oh there's arguments here
Speaker 1: and there preview one for me, I don't I don't know.
Speaker 1: Max broke my tailgate. Hits my tailgate, you know you
Speaker 1: could tell he was pretty upset. No, it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just like I didn't break that tailgate handle.
Speaker 1: You broke that tailgate handle. I think it broke itself. Sean,
Speaker 1: lay out what we're working on here. We're working on
Speaker 1: a new show called Duck Lore. We're in Michigan hunting ducks,
Speaker 1: hunting divers on the Big Water, and we're putting together
Speaker 1: a whole new waterfowl series and Shawn's at the helm.
Speaker 1: At the Helm, you get to see him every single time.
Speaker 1: We're covering all kinds of different ducks, different places, really
Speaker 1: gathering the waterfowl experience across the whole range of places.
Speaker 1: Started in Texas. Now we're all the way up here
Speaker 1: in Michigan, which seems backwards for the migration. Yeah, we're
Speaker 1: did you stop along the way um North Dakota and Nebraska,
Speaker 1: so we're on trip four. Then you're gonna head west
Speaker 1: from here. We're gonna talk more. We'll talk more about
Speaker 1: that in a minute, but a couple of updates. The
Speaker 1: House of bodities. So the auction House of Bodies run
Speaker 1: to group three. Now, well, when you're listening to this,
Speaker 1: run a group three. We're a couple of days ahead
Speaker 1: of the schedule here because right now we got what
Speaker 1: kind of how do hell do you say, Daniel's dog.
Speaker 1: We always been calling it a drop or something just
Speaker 1: for short, I'm the wrong guy to ask the dogs
Speaker 1: kicking ass on the auction house, what's it sitting at.
Speaker 1: It's currently it's sitting at like it's a good puppy.
Speaker 1: But you know what, they have four pups. So the
Speaker 1: way it's gonna work is the winning bidder works with
Speaker 1: the breeder to select which dog is back like what
Speaker 1: they want to Uh. Basically, male female will pick on
Speaker 1: the litter from their perspective, they get to pick because
Speaker 1: there's four different dogs. So the breeder will work with
Speaker 1: you to find out what you want. Because someone might
Speaker 1: want a male, they want a female, whatever the hell? Uh. Anyways,
Speaker 1: Group three is now launched. We have a so we
Speaker 1: got a lot of cool friends. We have a signed
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh Steelers jersey from Steelers linebacker Joe Schobert. He donated
Speaker 1: his football jersey to the All Action House. Got a
Speaker 1: bunch of teammates to sign it. That's pretty cool, including
Speaker 1: the quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and T J. Watt, Joe Hayden.
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of good names on there. Makea Fitzpatrick,
Speaker 1: Chase Claywood, Devin Bush, Cam Hayward, ju Ju Smith, Schustern, G. Harris. Anyways,
Speaker 1: all these fellers signed this jersey, and this signed jersey
Speaker 1: is up in group three, so all the signatures on it.
Speaker 1: We got a hand forged carbon knife donated by Cal
Speaker 1: but made by Riley Kirkpatrick Forge and Sheridan Oregon. It
Speaker 1: was Cal was supposed to use it for special occasions,
Speaker 1: but he doesn't he according to Cal, he doesn't have
Speaker 1: a nice enough special occasions. It's more beautiful than uh,
Speaker 1: something he should own, So it's going up on there.
Speaker 1: It's meant for carving large chunks of meat. This is
Speaker 1: other thing that's kind of this crazy set of things.
Speaker 1: There's artist David Burgess. Burgess he uh he made these
Speaker 1: mugs that have everybody's ugly as mug on him. So
Speaker 1: there's a cow mug, Yanni mugg. There's even like a
Speaker 1: dirk and mug as a naval captain. All the people's
Speaker 1: mugs are on the set of mugs. No one in
Speaker 1: the world has a set. This is like not a thing.
Speaker 1: These are like one offs. You can get the whole
Speaker 1: set of ugly mugs by Dave Spencer. Now everybody knows
Speaker 1: that Spencer Newharst, big Rockhound Spencer. His wife Shelby took
Speaker 1: There's ship Spencer's always finding out in the woods and
Speaker 1: made a custom petrified wood necklace, Montana moss egg At
Speaker 1: hoop earrings, and a pair of Montana moss egg it
Speaker 1: stud earrings, all being auctioned as a collection for that
Speaker 1: special someone in your life. We also have framed original
Speaker 1: art by one of my favorite wildlife artists, Jamie Carmody.
Speaker 1: Oh she does like you should go look on her
Speaker 1: phil pull up her Instagram deal. It's unbelievable her work.
Speaker 1: I was trying to get her. She she didn't want him,
Speaker 1: not being too happy with it, but I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get I was trying to get her to have me
Speaker 1: a painting of wolves that have disemboweled a bison but
Speaker 1: it's still standing, but they're they're eating the entrails. Came
Speaker 1: to me in a feverish dream and she's been working
Speaker 1: on it but wasn't happy with it either way. We
Speaker 1: have a painting of her of dogs banning up a
Speaker 1: mountain lion, which is cool. It's it's like you just
Speaker 1: gotta go look at it. You gotta go look at it.
Speaker 1: It's an incredible painting. We have another meatcraft or knife
Speaker 1: and as you know, these are like rare and hands
Speaker 1: teeth now and sell for a bunch of money. Another
Speaker 1: meatcraft knife and the main thing. Here's the main draw.
Speaker 1: Everybody knows Season two of Doss Boat, which includes a
Speaker 1: boat that my The boat is my childhood mentor, John Gary,
Speaker 1: my childhood fishing mentor. John Gary, his boat, his nine
Speaker 1: seventy three StarCraft, which then became my family's boat and
Speaker 1: then became the Doss Boat Season two boats. But we
Speaker 1: got rid of John Gary's old horse, Evan Rude. And
Speaker 1: this boat has been paired with a Honda, a brand
Speaker 1: spicketty new Honda four stroke forty all kinds of add on,
Speaker 1: all kinds of customization. You can go sign up right now,
Speaker 1: go to the auction house of bodies. You don't need
Speaker 1: to buy anything, but you can just sign up for free.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna give that boat away. So that's John
Speaker 1: Gary Slash, my old fishing boat paired with a brand
Speaker 1: new forty horse four stroke Conda. It's a sweet boat.
Speaker 1: Everything on it's it's old, but like read one, that's
Speaker 1: a giveaway. Here's here, let me get you some behind
Speaker 1: the scenes. What it does is it drives traffic to
Speaker 1: the arms about it. We want to auction off and
Speaker 1: that would have been a high ticket item, but we
Speaker 1: thought it'd be like not fair to people that can't
Speaker 1: get in on the bidden because of like whatever financial constraints. Um,
Speaker 1: this way, you just go win the damn boat. To
Speaker 1: come back to her arts, Jamie underscore wild art. Everybody
Speaker 1: doesn't wild. He doesn't underscore. It's it's you look at
Speaker 1: the top about with those pictures of hunting dogs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're pretty sweet. It's unbelievable. Yeah, it's pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 1: She's got one here with a mallard that I'm a
Speaker 1: fan of. Ye, it's unbelievable looking. She's cool. Uh, piece
Speaker 1: of feedback. We hadd on Paul Lewis from f h
Speaker 1: F Gear, who is a retired police officer, and we
Speaker 1: were trying to do a segment with Paul like called
Speaker 1: ask cop because like weird stuff cops do. You could
Speaker 1: ask like he's retired, he has got no skin in
Speaker 1: the game anymore. You could be like, why do you
Speaker 1: guys always right, yeah, do whatever they do. So we're
Speaker 1: like asking Paul, why do you guys tend to all
Speaker 1: of a sudden decided to turn on your lights and
Speaker 1: scirt down the road and then turn him back off again.
Speaker 1: You know that's the thing they do. Well. A cop
Speaker 1: from Cheyenne, Wyoming rode in and he said, I was
Speaker 1: This is to quote him. I was shocked, shocked to
Speaker 1: hear Paul describe the use of light sirens to get
Speaker 1: back to the office. He recognizes that Paul was joking, perhaps,
Speaker 1: but this is a thing that he really wanted to
Speaker 1: a myth that he wanted to dispel. He's a fire
Speaker 1: fighter Cheyenne, Wyoming. He's in the officer seat, meaning he's
Speaker 1: in control of the lights sirens on the fire truck.
Speaker 1: He's very aware of public perception of this very activity
Speaker 1: and it always bothers me. He calls it running emergent
Speaker 1: and then shutting off lights sirens prior to making it unseen.
Speaker 1: He says, upper case never, so like a Trumpian use
Speaker 1: of upper case, we would upper case never use an
Speaker 1: emergent response to get back to the station, to get dinner,
Speaker 1: to get to the bathroom, or any other non emergency.
Speaker 1: You could get fired for doing that, and not only
Speaker 1: it's an inherent danger to ourselves and the public. Here's
Speaker 1: what he says happens. Someone calls, holy sh it, much
Speaker 1: smoke coming out of the neighbor's window. Okay. The first
Speaker 1: information you have is there's an emergency situation. You respond accordingly.
Speaker 1: Then it's often followed up by the dispatcher cooking, incident
Speaker 1: under control, shut the lightstone or car crash. Okay, emergency.
Speaker 1: Then it follows up it's minor. You're still going, but
Speaker 1: it's not worth mm hmm. All the pomp and circumstance, says,
Speaker 1: that's why we we trigger turn the shift on. Information
Speaker 1: continues to feed in, is determined that it's non emergency,
Speaker 1: you shut it off, and that's why that's happening. This
Speaker 1: guy hates when this occurs. Oh you gotta feel. But
Speaker 1: then listen goes on because Paul from f HF has
Speaker 1: a response, current arranged response. So now we have a debate.
Speaker 1: Paul says, I would agree with him and that this
Speaker 1: is something that would not be looked at favorably by
Speaker 1: the public or administration. Certainly not something we'd stand for normally.
Speaker 1: And I was trying to add a little humor. It's
Speaker 1: something that we joke about, but really not do. That's said.
Speaker 1: That's said. I saw a bathroom emergency happened once in
Speaker 1: the middle of the night after leaving a standoff with
Speaker 1: a guy with a gun ten years ago. Times have changed,
Speaker 1: but he does he does. Uh, he does concede point
Speaker 1: nine percent of the time. It's because of changing circumstances
Speaker 1: from the collar. Now, here's another interesting deal. When we
Speaker 1: are and talking about antelope hunting and and we have
Speaker 1: an antelope hunting episode up on Netflix right now, and
Speaker 1: then it we use a game bag. Yeah, we use
Speaker 1: a game bag on a like a I can't remember
Speaker 1: putting on a tripod or gun barrel. We can put
Speaker 1: on the barrel my rifle and waving the wind and
Speaker 1: um to get an analop's attention. Now, I always felt
Speaker 1: that the white mattered because like antelo burn blazoned with
Speaker 1: a big white panel on their flank. And uh, it's
Speaker 1: not for camouflage. It's for yeah, seeing each other out
Speaker 1: in wide open you know, on wide open ground. But
Speaker 1: this guy ran into this uh this historic account. So
Speaker 1: there's a report, a report on an expedition down the
Speaker 1: Zuni in Colorado Rivers by Lorenzo Sill Grieves in eighteen
Speaker 1: fifty one, and the expedition had a naturalist assigned to
Speaker 1: the expedition named S. W. Woodhouse. He talks about what
Speaker 1: a pain and the acid is to get within rifle
Speaker 1: range of Ani back in efty one. They see it
Speaker 1: coming and they book off, and these guys are, you know,
Speaker 1: shooting at that point in time. These guys are shooting, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, muzzleloading rifles. But the way he can't get in,
Speaker 1: And he said the hunters would just tie a red
Speaker 1: handkerchief to a stick and creep through the grass holding
Speaker 1: the red handkerchief up on a stick. And he said
Speaker 1: that would inspire a lot of curiosity on the thing,
Speaker 1: or it even come near so that a little bit
Speaker 1: undoes my whole white thing. Yeah, why does it need
Speaker 1: to be red? I think that he thinks the bloody
Speaker 1: antelope is coming and he's like, why is that antelope
Speaker 1: so drenched in blood? Does he need help? No? I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think you can see it? What's that?
Speaker 1: Can they see the difference? I don't. I don't know
Speaker 1: enough between a red and a white? Well, I mean
Speaker 1: they could. Is it that much of a difference and
Speaker 1: through an antelope's eyes that it would be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go there because it's red not white, or
Speaker 1: white not red. Well, here's the deal. I thought the
Speaker 1: white because because it matches the neck, because it was
Speaker 1: like he's seeing right now, I believe or maybe I
Speaker 1: don't know that. Maybe this guy I don't know enough
Speaker 1: about Francis Wharton and who's this other hoser? No, that's
Speaker 1: not him, Francis Warton, that's listen. You won't believe Francis Warton,
Speaker 1: s W. Woodhouse in Lorenzo sit Graves, I don't know.
Speaker 1: They sound like trustworthy names. Do you feel if you
Speaker 1: can judge them by that? I think I think it's weird,
Speaker 1: Like if let's say the antelope side his buddy all
Speaker 1: bloodied up. I'm joking about the blood. Okay, I don't
Speaker 1: think that he thinks it's a bloody antelope. I think
Speaker 1: it's like, I think it's just curiosity stuff. But what's
Speaker 1: funny is when you're reading historic stuff, these are the
Speaker 1: kind of names everybody has. Lorenzo sit Greaves and s. W.
Speaker 1: Woodhouse sound like dudes. Yeah, from expedition. Yeah, you can
Speaker 1: hear those names in like a Ken Burns documentary, like
Speaker 1: we would never be sitting here, and I would never
Speaker 1: be like I'm sitting here with that S. W. Woodhouse.
Speaker 1: It's just because you don't he's dead or can't come
Speaker 1: on the show. This next story is super interesting. I
Speaker 1: don't know how we never heard about this before. Canadian
Speaker 1: guy wrote in, because we're probably talking about stuff to
Speaker 1: do with bones and whatnot, you know, like making like
Speaker 1: truck shifters out of your own hip joint when you
Speaker 1: get your leg amputated. Well, this guy is sending about
Speaker 1: this dude named Francis Wharton, who also sounds like a
Speaker 1: guy to be dead for a while now. He was
Speaker 1: at Little Fort, British Columbia in the fifties and sixties.
Speaker 1: Missing all his teeth, couldn't eat meat anymore. He goes
Speaker 1: out and kills a deer and then ends up eating
Speaker 1: the deer with the deer's own teeth. Made a pair
Speaker 1: of dentures out of the deer's teeth. I'm curious and
Speaker 1: ate the deer with those deer's teeth. I'm curious how
Speaker 1: quick he made those dentures. That's the part. But I
Speaker 1: don't understand. That's where I smell a fish. I think
Speaker 1: he might have eight The next year. But I don't
Speaker 1: mean to take away because there's a photo of this
Speaker 1: guy and when you look at him, he's kind of
Speaker 1: got his half smile, he's got what you might call
Speaker 1: his ship eating grin. And you could tell something's not
Speaker 1: quite right with his teeth. Right, would you look at
Speaker 1: me like there's something not quite right with his teeth.
Speaker 1: It looks like someone took a file to him. He
Speaker 1: but listen, you can go to a museum and see
Speaker 1: the guy's damn teeth. He made a full upper denture
Speaker 1: out of a deer's teeth. The collections manager at the
Speaker 1: Museum of Healthcare and Kingston has the teeth on display,
Speaker 1: filed him down, put him into a base of wood,
Speaker 1: plastic and household cement warm for three years. They describe
Speaker 1: him as kind of loose, kind of dark and dirty.
Speaker 1: He must use a lot of polydon. It's a great idea.
Speaker 1: It's impressive. I feel like eating meat with him hadn't
Speaker 1: been kind of challenging to his deer teeth aren't naturally
Speaker 1: like deer don't eat meat, you know. And and these
Speaker 1: are to be clear, he had to kill he had
Speaker 1: more than one deer's where the teeth in there because
Speaker 1: these are just the incisors. Mm hmm. Right, he's got
Speaker 1: like a whole row of incisors. Look at the set
Speaker 1: of those dentures, pretty wild looking. Yeah, you just kind
Speaker 1: of have to know it. Wow, that's great. I like
Speaker 1: hearing that there's a place called the Museum of Healthcare.
Speaker 1: Is that something you do? You get, you get like
Speaker 1: satisfaction And that's sort of like if you want to
Speaker 1: call it poetry whatever of I of him eating the
Speaker 1: dear meat with the deer's own teeth, because to me,
Speaker 1: that just makes me roll my eyes a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like the poetry of it. There's something that speaks
Speaker 1: to you, like, uh, there's something kind of writer early
Speaker 1: that speaks to you. But then also, what's my you know,
Speaker 1: my favorite quote, right, uh? Brevity, No, skepticism, skeptics. Skepticism
Speaker 1: is the chastity of the Indian. So when I hear it,
Speaker 1: I need to go to a skeptical place. Which my
Speaker 1: skepticism drives my kid bananas because everything he tells me,
Speaker 1: because probably here's the thing with kids, they they mess
Speaker 1: up every YouTube video they see. Oh yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: like I was watching the video about it. Guys, mean
Speaker 1: it's like Mr Money and he always finds envelopes and
Speaker 1: every envelope he finds has a million dollars in it.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, hold on a minute. You know
Speaker 1: only at person only half listening anyway, So here people
Speaker 1: describe YouTube videos to me and then alsoden you get
Speaker 1: to the end, I'm like, homett what you know? Then
Speaker 1: he gets piste like you don't believe me. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: so that don't believe you, buddy, I think you're messing
Speaker 1: up with the videos about drives me notes. I need
Speaker 1: to find more envelopes. Oh yeah, it's like everything like
Speaker 1: I don't like a watching YouTube. Uh. And you might
Speaker 1: think it's because like I'm trying to protect your kids
Speaker 1: from the world and all that. It's because they mess
Speaker 1: up every YouTube video they see. It makes me so
Speaker 1: so worried to act because I feel like I kind
Speaker 1: of grew up with the internet a little bit like
Speaker 1: product was that that like perfect age range where I
Speaker 1: can kind of tell when something is like a scam
Speaker 1: or not real or like these pop up like this
Speaker 1: is all I can I can just point it out.
Speaker 1: And I'm so scared of putting my kids on the
Speaker 1: internet because they're just gonna be thrown into the deep
Speaker 1: end and have no idea what's what to do? No,
Speaker 1: they have no idea. He'll because he likes to hunt,
Speaker 1: so he'll be watching he's watching hunting videos. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: like just the mona. So there's like settings you can
Speaker 1: use on YouTube for kids to use that. I should
Speaker 1: well it prevents like, oh you might also like you know,
Speaker 1: and then they go down up crazy as exactly. Here's
Speaker 1: a good story. Guy wrote it in about some adults
Speaker 1: could use that too. Yeah, oh yeah, you know what,
Speaker 1: there should be a setting you could go into your
Speaker 1: if your friends kind of a dumbass should go and
Speaker 1: do like a setting that he doesn't know about that
Speaker 1: protects him. Yeah, that protects him from stuff he's not
Speaker 1: gonna be able to apply skepticism too, Like like a
Speaker 1: little sliding bar of you can turn up or down
Speaker 1: how skeptical the person is. And if your buddy's like
Speaker 1: not skeptical, he's go slide that bar way down and
Speaker 1: it'll he serves them like very plausible fact check material.
Speaker 1: There you go. Fire no more million dollar envelopes for Max.
Speaker 1: A guy from Minnesota rolled in with a great trapping
Speaker 1: story from when he was thirteen, so he was outdoor
Speaker 1: obsessed kid. He trapped mink, raccoon's beavers of a nearby
Speaker 1: river and his uh old man, check this out. This
Speaker 1: is where you gotta pay attention. His old man's a veterinarian.
Speaker 1: Apparently I didn't know this would it makes sense. Veterinarians
Speaker 1: have a carcass freezer for all the dead dogs and whatnot,
Speaker 1: dead cats and dogs, okay, and because when they got
Speaker 1: to euthanize a dog, they freeze it and then it
Speaker 1: gets sent to the dog cremation place. Since they had
Speaker 1: the big freezer, he would store his trapped animals in there,
Speaker 1: waiting to skin them, or waiting he would bring him
Speaker 1: in like if he would sell them. Uh, he would
Speaker 1: sell some of us fur in the round owned it's
Speaker 1: for a trapping term. He one time goes down to
Speaker 1: the fur buyer and he's emptying all his bags out
Speaker 1: and outcomes a miniature Schnauzer in place of his raccoon.
Speaker 1: Got the bags swapped, goes back home and there is
Speaker 1: no raccoon in that freezer. So someone he thinks someone
Speaker 1: to this day has the creamines of their dog, but
Speaker 1: in fact it's his raccoon probably sitting above the fireplace.
Speaker 1: Never got it right the fur buyer's face when that, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got up, came rolling out weird looking raccoon. Here's
Speaker 1: another good thing that we found. Uh kran drugged us up.
Speaker 1: You're talking about whether or not you should like like
Speaker 1: not the morals of shooting collar dear. It's not a
Speaker 1: more issues the esthetics of shooting a collar deer like
Speaker 1: I would have and I've I've made this clear many occasions.
Speaker 1: I would have a very hard time. Not not that
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to do it. I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: Shoot a deer of the Colorado or whatever. The collar
Speaker 1: on it just just to me because it feels um
Speaker 1: tainted by the hands of man. And it brings up
Speaker 1: the thing of why is a banded duck cool? To
Speaker 1: which I just like, I don't know. I agree that
Speaker 1: they're cool, but I can't explain it. I can't explain it.
Speaker 1: But a collar deer is not cool. But this guy
Speaker 1: got himself a doe not only with the collar, but
Speaker 1: two ear tags, and got it mounted ear tags and
Speaker 1: collar and a little radio and oh yeah, full on
Speaker 1: mountain on his wall. I grew up near the U
Speaker 1: s d A Clinic in Ames, Iowa. And you know,
Speaker 1: they've got a whole penza deer outside ear tagged and
Speaker 1: it looks like a runaway got their defense. Well no,
Speaker 1: but it's got that collar. Yeah, of collars, the extra.
Speaker 1: So the guy that shot the collared white tailed doe
Speaker 1: was Roy Winnings of Illinois. He's he's got some hunting
Speaker 1: land in Moultrie County and he watches dough trumpet around
Speaker 1: on there for four years wearing a GPS track and collar.
Speaker 1: Killed her in two thousand twelve. It appeared to him
Speaker 1: that her health was declining. She'd been tagged by the
Speaker 1: Southern Illinois University Carbondale near Shelbyville, nine miles away from
Speaker 1: his land. Okay, so she made it nine miles to
Speaker 1: his place. Turned out the dough was seven and a
Speaker 1: half years old in two thousand nine, so three years
Speaker 1: prior to her to him killing it, she had an
Speaker 1: annual home range size of one six acres. That's pretty interesting.
Speaker 1: It just does not seem that big at all when
Speaker 1: you bump it and you think it's like, gone, yeah,
Speaker 1: a square miles. When you bump her and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's like they don't go far. No, not at all,
Speaker 1: but it's interesting that. But consider this too, though she
Speaker 1: moved nine miles right, so she's running like an annual
Speaker 1: home range of a hundred and six acres. But at
Speaker 1: points of time, what Wasever was inspired to like move
Speaker 1: nine miles to over the course? You think the human
Speaker 1: handling could have been that two though, possibly, but I
Speaker 1: don't think it's if you look at like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: talk about this dude, Kevin Montieth for men who runs
Speaker 1: all these these dear coloring projects and wyoming and they
Speaker 1: act real normal and then they go do something weird
Speaker 1: and then the agg you know, I shouldn't say at normal,
Speaker 1: they're in a spot and then now and then for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, they strike off. We were having on the show. Argument.
Speaker 1: That was an argument Jason Phelps and Phelps game calls
Speaker 1: I've been laying out for him the emergent thinking that
Speaker 1: UM nutrition is more important to antler growth than genetics. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because Phelps is still like the old like, oh that
Speaker 1: area's got good genetics, that area doesn't have good genetics,
Speaker 1: And researchers are turning up that like nutrition UM not
Speaker 1: only is it perhaps more important but it's more controllable
Speaker 1: if you look at herd size and habitat quality. And
Speaker 1: we had Kevin montiethon to explain some of his work
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. But I want to recap
Speaker 1: a little bit because where I'm having like a somewhat
Speaker 1: spirited email exchange between Phelps and Kevin Monteith from University
Speaker 1: of Wyoming and trying to convince Phelps of what we're saying.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna refer back to something that Monteth discussed
Speaker 1: when he was on the podcast a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: They took white tails from the Black Hills and from
Speaker 1: eastern South Dakota, so you have go ahead. They actually
Speaker 1: put them. That was at South Dakota State where they
Speaker 1: moved to live. So they're taking white tails from a
Speaker 1: piss poor uh genetics area, Black Hills, and they're taking
Speaker 1: white tails from a good genetics area eastern South Dakota, right,
Speaker 1: And they're saying, Okay, so suppose they got this whole
Speaker 1: genetics thing and they bring them into captivity and have
Speaker 1: them raised fawns under identical conditions. So here you have
Speaker 1: the good genetics, dear, the bad genetics. Dear, you keep
Speaker 1: them separated. So you got the same males and females
Speaker 1: from the genetics area, but everybody's eating the same ship
Speaker 1: in the same in place. Okay. Now what they find
Speaker 1: when they do this as they raise these fawns under
Speaker 1: identical conditions, the deer are radically different sizes as adults
Speaker 1: when they're brought there. Okay, but they're only bred within
Speaker 1: their respective regions of origins. Now, the male fawns made
Speaker 1: up for more than seventy of the difference in size
Speaker 1: that originated between the two regions, So already just the
Speaker 1: first batch of fawns makes up sevent the difference under
Speaker 1: similar circumstances. The reason it didn't do it all the
Speaker 1: way is because the in utero effects of it still
Speaker 1: haven't been born out, Meaning a box potential is in
Speaker 1: some ways decided by the condition that the dough is
Speaker 1: in when she becomes ms pregnant. Yeah, like the in
Speaker 1: utero conditions that that thing will hit the ground with
Speaker 1: its fate already sealed based on as the condition its
Speaker 1: mother as she lactated, in the condition that the mother's
Speaker 1: in as she like developed. The fetus goes on to
Speaker 1: talk about, well, some areas w where you have different
Speaker 1: stuff you could have. They got deer where they have.
Speaker 1: There's a dough that has a very good year, and
Speaker 1: she puts off a total slob of a buck, But
Speaker 1: it takes five years for that buck to reach maturity.
Speaker 1: But what's gonna happen in five years has already been
Speaker 1: determined by what happened in her belly. So she could
Speaker 1: have a bad year and put off a buck that
Speaker 1: will never develop into anything five years down the road.
Speaker 1: The next year gonna have a great year and put
Speaker 1: off a buck that will turn into a tanker in
Speaker 1: five years. But you're not seeing the results of that
Speaker 1: for such a enormously long time. They had a a
Speaker 1: buck that was born in two thousand and seventeen following
Speaker 1: a winner in which his mom nearly died of starvation,
Speaker 1: but she pulled through and raised both him and his sister.
Speaker 1: He bore the consequences of that experience, that prenatal experience.
Speaker 1: He bore it for the rest of his life. When
Speaker 1: he was a two year old, he had a tiny
Speaker 1: forky antlers that anyone would have said without question he
Speaker 1: was a yearly. As a three year old, he was
Speaker 1: the size of a small two year old. People are
Speaker 1: looked and said, oh, he had bad genetics. Monty said,
Speaker 1: it's crap. He had a mom that was barely surviving
Speaker 1: and did not have adequate nutrition to give him the
Speaker 1: silver spoon and instead passed on a negative maternal effect
Speaker 1: that this male will never be able to pull out
Speaker 1: of for his life. He goes on to bring up
Speaker 1: this thing, he will never be able to express his
Speaker 1: genetic potential, meaning genetically he might have the potential to
Speaker 1: have big antlers, but he just can't and won't. It's
Speaker 1: called the cohort effect, where in males born in some
Speaker 1: years on average have larger or smaller antlers than those
Speaker 1: born in other years, even if they are harvested at
Speaker 1: the same age and live in the same places. It
Speaker 1: comes down to what mom was able to do for them.
Speaker 1: Even more nuanced is each female within each year. Maybe
Speaker 1: mom raised twin. I'm I'm reading Monty's own email right now.
Speaker 1: Maybe mom raised twins one year and paid the price
Speaker 1: for it, and goes into the next year in poorer
Speaker 1: than average condition. She will have less to give than
Speaker 1: the mom right next to her that lost her fawns
Speaker 1: early the year before, and carry is a heap of
Speaker 1: fat they are liable to produce males with different expressions
Speaker 1: of potential. And Yep, there are also micro nuances in
Speaker 1: the ranges they inhabit and the quality of the resources
Speaker 1: they have access to. He goes on to say that
Speaker 1: this this applies the horns, not his antlers, but it
Speaker 1: brings up an interesting that deer hunter will always talk about.
Speaker 1: They'll be like, it's a good antler growth year this year.
Speaker 1: M right. You always hear that what you might be
Speaker 1: seeing is you might be seeing that four years ago
Speaker 1: was a great year. Mild winner, was a great year
Speaker 1: for does, a great year for big healthy fat does.
Speaker 1: That produced a batch of great box that are now
Speaker 1: coming into maturity. And you're seeing a great antler year
Speaker 1: as an expression of great times before. So we need
Speaker 1: to as we talked about this, we need to point
Speaker 1: out this difference the wildlife student. You'll be able that
Speaker 1: you'll be able to track antlers. Of course, this as
Speaker 1: I had to explain to my kids every week. Antlers
Speaker 1: are a bony material that falls off every year. Different
Speaker 1: like antlers and horns are different. Horns and animal carry
Speaker 1: with the exception of the American prong horned horned animals
Speaker 1: carry their horns their entire life. So they're looking at
Speaker 1: a population of unhunted big horn sheet in the Sierra Nevadas.
Speaker 1: They can explain over eighty per of the variation in
Speaker 1: horn size of adult males just by knowing how fat
Speaker 1: the moms were in those ranges. Sean's got his hand up,
Speaker 1: not his hand up, but his hand open, open in
Speaker 1: a very wonder It just makes me wonder how new
Speaker 1: is all this knowledge? Because you've heard the genetics discussion
Speaker 1: for so long, but it seems like, you know, mom's
Speaker 1: being healthy. Is like with what Monteth's writing here, seems
Speaker 1: that plays way so much more of a factor than genetics.
Speaker 1: Why is genetics always been the discussion? I don't know,
Speaker 1: but but here it's a great point. And it frustrates
Speaker 1: him because one of the things he gets at is
Speaker 1: if you're interested in heard health and and you accept
Speaker 1: uh that and I think you should Courtney, what he's saying.
Speaker 1: You look at me, like, why do big anglers matter? Right?
Speaker 1: The cool you know whatever, the cool to look at,
Speaker 1: cool to hang on the wall, you could look and
Speaker 1: if you take this work like this work has implications
Speaker 1: if it is this crazy genetic stuff, and he He
Speaker 1: never denies that genetic like it's a thing. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it's the thing we can It's a thing that we
Speaker 1: have no ability to influence or control. But he goes,
Speaker 1: we can't absolutely control quality, not control. We can influence
Speaker 1: quality of habitat. We can influence herd size. And if
Speaker 1: you can say that, like and you not say you
Speaker 1: can you show, demonstrate, prove the big antlers are a
Speaker 1: function of habitat quality. Right, that winds up being a
Speaker 1: thing that we can talk about and work toward and
Speaker 1: measure and like apply the logic to the landscape of
Speaker 1: how do we measure and demonstrate like a healthy herded here?
Speaker 1: What's too many? What is how? Yeah? What is quality habitat? Right?
Speaker 1: And if over time you see that areas that traditionally
Speaker 1: we're producing big box and they don't anymore. Um, is
Speaker 1: it that the genetics went to ship or is it
Speaker 1: that we've degraded the habitat or we're not managing herd
Speaker 1: size effectively. Do you think at some point those two
Speaker 1: go hand in hand Over a long enough period of time,
Speaker 1: like a line of white tails just were malnourished over
Speaker 1: enough years, wouldn't that kind of lower their genetic potential. No,
Speaker 1: because it has to be heritable. And Monty talks a
Speaker 1: lot about like, when you talk about genetics, you have
Speaker 1: to be talking about things that are heritable qualities. Okay, uh,
Speaker 1: Remember we were talking with Cal. We're gonna touch on
Speaker 1: this later. We're talking with Cal about people saying that
Speaker 1: you're driving with rattlesnakes, that when you kill rattlesnakes that rattle,
Speaker 1: you are making them more dangerous. You're making rattlesnakes more
Speaker 1: dangerous because you're only leaving the ones that don't rattle. First,
Speaker 1: heffle Finger rolled in about that. He goes, well, first,
Speaker 1: you'd have to believe that it's tendency to rattle or
Speaker 1: not is heritable, meaning that its tendency to rattle is
Speaker 1: something that it inherits inherits from its mother or father,
Speaker 1: rather than its tendency to rattle is based on conditions
Speaker 1: time of year, air temperature, proximity of threat. Right that,
Speaker 1: why do you think that it like got it from
Speaker 1: its dad rather than it has to do with what
Speaker 1: its physical circumstances are at the moment. So Montith gets
Speaker 1: into this in this email chain we're having, he gets
Speaker 1: into this idea of people saying you shot out the genetics.
Speaker 1: They got overhunted, they shot all the big bucks and
Speaker 1: now there's no big Bucks genetics to go around to this,
Speaker 1: he says, quote crap. No, it's like hell no, ship. No,
Speaker 1: I've never heard of crap. It's a few other words
Speaker 1: that I've heard before. Crap thinks he's using the university.
Speaker 1: Uh email deal here, mantape. You understand his position. Man,
Speaker 1: He's a respect he's a respectable dude and knows what
Speaker 1: you know. I like it. Yeah, he's know what he's doing.
Speaker 1: He explains that it takes such an extreme level of
Speaker 1: harvest intensity that is perfectly selective to achieve that. He says,
Speaker 1: it's something we will never achieve in the real world.
Speaker 1: He says, bighorn sheep again, a horned animal that has
Speaker 1: very selective pressure on small populations, is the one place
Speaker 1: you could perhaps achieve this, And he points to a
Speaker 1: paper by a guy named Lachar which he attached to
Speaker 1: be like, that's the thing you could potentially see, but
Speaker 1: in the Antler world quote not stinking possible. An't gonna happen.
Speaker 1: I'm want to recap again. Go ahead, Shawn's got his
Speaker 1: hand off, Sorry, but I want to I want to, like,
Speaker 1: not on the antlers, but on the rattlesnake thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: isn't that what adaptation is? Though, is eventual genetic change
Speaker 1: to you live or you die, and so like saying
Speaker 1: that rattlesnakes no longer rattling is just like a fluke
Speaker 1: and isn't like a genetic adaptation to the ones that
Speaker 1: rattle get killed and the ones that don't don't it
Speaker 1: has to happen. Well, we're gonna answer all that because
Speaker 1: when we get into halfle fingers thing about snakes, we're
Speaker 1: gonna cover just how many rattlesnakes are out there, um, approximately,
Speaker 1: how many are killed every year, the factors that lead
Speaker 1: a rattlesnake to rattle, the impacts of air, temperature, unrattling, Um,
Speaker 1: it ain't gonna happ mhm. I remember that that was
Speaker 1: another Black Hills South Dakota like original that was bare
Speaker 1: they're going to kill off all the rat rattling kind
Speaker 1: I remember hearing that on I'm pretty sure it was
Speaker 1: NPR or South Dakota Public Radio years ago. Was a
Speaker 1: piece they did on really that rattlesnakes and the Black Hills,
Speaker 1: don't rattle anymore. He also gets into the only really
Speaker 1: like industrialized killing of rattlesnakes that rattlesnake round ups for instance,
Speaker 1: So like, where really are snakes dying by humans? It
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with rattling. They're getting him out
Speaker 1: of Denny locations. This is not a thing, Tony. We'll
Speaker 1: cover it. I want to get back to Montee though.
Speaker 1: He's an eloquent dude. Oh yeah, so it is. Finally,
Speaker 1: all this comes back to what has become for me
Speaker 1: a bit of a long term goal in my career
Speaker 1: relative to impact, and that is I hope that someday
Speaker 1: when an incredibly large male is harvested, rather than the
Speaker 1: response being oh, look at those genetics, it is instead
Speaker 1: that boy must have had a fat mom. He's talking
Speaker 1: about humans here. No, no, no, I like that, he says.
Speaker 1: For one, this is a reality. For two, it importantly
Speaker 1: shifts our focus is something that matters and that we
Speaker 1: can influence. We will never be able to tip the
Speaker 1: scale in the unseen and imaginary world of genetics to
Speaker 1: grow bigger antlers, till that to all them do your farmers.
Speaker 1: That's a whole different world, though, But the scale we
Speaker 1: can tip is that of nutrition, both through considering her
Speaker 1: density and habitat quality, all of which shifts our focus
Speaker 1: from what is on the head of the animal to
Speaker 1: what is on the ground to make more headway in
Speaker 1: the world of conservation, that is where our hearts and
Speaker 1: minds need to go. You got that. I like it.
Speaker 1: Dude's good, Okay, ruddy sean, you can explain something the
Speaker 1: two tier Nebraska duck system. Now, someone might be sitting
Speaker 1: there at home thinking, why the hell would I care
Speaker 1: about Nebraska's whatever that means to tier duck system. But
Speaker 1: I don't know, Man, it's a test plot or it's
Speaker 1: a test and they're doing South Dakota too. I don't
Speaker 1: think I like it. Explain it. So, Nebraska and South
Speaker 1: Dakota are testing a tiered license system where you have
Speaker 1: a tier one, which is your normal federally set by
Speaker 1: fly away license um or by fly away bag limits.
Speaker 1: So you have, for example, in the Central Flyway with
Speaker 1: South Dkota, Nebraska, you get six ducks a day, and
Speaker 1: a variety of like species have more stringent more stringent
Speaker 1: bag limits by species, so mallards you can shoot five
Speaker 1: mallards a day in Nebraska only two of which can
Speaker 1: be hands or you can only shoot one pintail. But
Speaker 1: Nebraska and South Dakota are testing a second bag limit
Speaker 1: tier or a different license that allows you to just
Speaker 1: shoot three ducks a day. But whatever you want them
Speaker 1: to be. It's just they're selling this as to get
Speaker 1: more people duck hunting. Yeah, and my problems are we
Speaker 1: really like, are there really like a lot of ducks
Speaker 1: flying around that no one's hunting for? And I have
Speaker 1: never exactly and I've never met uh a person that's
Speaker 1: like I would buy a duck hunting license, but I
Speaker 1: can't tell what a mallard hen is, so I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna go. That's what the thinking is though. It's like
Speaker 1: it's too hard to tell ducks apart, So just sell
Speaker 1: like a little ship in license where someone could just
Speaker 1: go kill whatever they want, counted up to three the
Speaker 1: nets one tier, the other tiers people that uh, well,
Speaker 1: uh learn what ducks are? What? Yeah, I just think
Speaker 1: access is such a bigger problem, like having a place
Speaker 1: to duck hunt, especially in Nebraska, which is like not
Speaker 1: overflowing with public land opportunity. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: Nebraska's waterfowl hunting is like the North Platte river Bottom.
Speaker 1: That's private least m h. You know across the state.
Speaker 1: The whole way is leases across that whole river bottom.
Speaker 1: And so I struggle with like, Oh, there's all these
Speaker 1: guys in Nebraska or young kids in Nebraska that want
Speaker 1: to go duck hunting, but the thing holding them back
Speaker 1: is that they don't know what a pintail looks like
Speaker 1: versus if they had access to you know, what's the
Speaker 1: price difference between the two tags. I think it's the same,
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. I haven't. I haven't found that.
Speaker 1: Do you know anyone personally doing it? Yeah, I don't need.
Speaker 1: The thing that like makes me real reluctant on it
Speaker 1: is pintails and canvasbacks. I mean, in general, I guess
Speaker 1: they're going to be less harvest because there's less of them.
Speaker 1: But man, if someone's all of a a sudden whacking three
Speaker 1: pintails a day, not not a huge fan of that
Speaker 1: because they're struggling as it is. Well, it's a four
Speaker 1: year plan and they're gonna be monitoring the difference of
Speaker 1: the harvest differences between the two tiers right to see.
Speaker 1: They're probably looking for us that right because these holders
Speaker 1: I don't want to call the holders. These fellers what
Speaker 1: tier The Tier two folks could go out and whack
Speaker 1: three canvas backs a day. Hens. Yeah, had three hens
Speaker 1: a day, three pintails day. They could shoot three pintail
Speaker 1: hens and it's a three day possession limit, right, so
Speaker 1: they could they could come home from the three day
Speaker 1: trip with nine hand pintails. And this is an anecdote,
Speaker 1: but one I'm pretty familiar with. Maybe some of the
Speaker 1: easiest decoy ducks are typically going to be like a
Speaker 1: hen pintail or hand mallard. Like when a hunt's going rough,
Speaker 1: the ducks that still end up decoin are the hen
Speaker 1: pintails and malle the one of the ones up just
Speaker 1: landing in the decoys all of a sudden. It is
Speaker 1: a pilot program. They just say it flat out. The
Speaker 1: idea behind this pilot program is to allow novice hunters
Speaker 1: who have not yet properly learned duck identification, the opportunity
Speaker 1: to go water foul hunting without fear of breaking bag
Speaker 1: limit laws. They want to recruit new duck hunters. I
Speaker 1: will say that, like it is intimidating if this does
Speaker 1: help some people like understand what what it is they're
Speaker 1: shooting at first light. It's a good thing because when
Speaker 1: you've shot your one hand pintail twenty minutes ten minutes
Speaker 1: after legal legal light, and you're real cautious the rest
Speaker 1: of the morning. I mean, if you can't exactly tell
Speaker 1: what you're looking at, you let a lot of ducks
Speaker 1: keep flying. So they got kind of a It's not
Speaker 1: frequently asked questions because it's like it's this is more
Speaker 1: like questions they can imagine in the future becoming frequently
Speaker 1: asked questions. Can you switch tears? Uh, you sign a deal?
Speaker 1: Can't switch tears if you're under sixteen? Can you do
Speaker 1: Tier two? Yes? Does it affect goose hunting? It does not.
Speaker 1: Quote geese are easier to identify than ducks. What will
Speaker 1: be the effects of Tier two hunters on restricted harvested species?
Speaker 1: Tier two hunters will be asked to participate in the
Speaker 1: parts collection survey, So they got to send in the
Speaker 1: wings from the ducks they harvest. That's interesting about ducks
Speaker 1: is like a wing tells you everything you need to
Speaker 1: know to a trained I a wing gives you species gender.
Speaker 1: You got to send in a wing so they can
Speaker 1: monitor the species and sects of ducks harvested and determine
Speaker 1: how much of a difference in harvest there is between
Speaker 1: Tier one and Tier two hunters. There in lies the
Speaker 1: there's the rub. If they do that work and there's
Speaker 1: no discernible difference, then right, yeah, I think in general
Speaker 1: the tier two hunters, if I was like foreshadowing or
Speaker 1: forecasting this, they're just gonna end up with like more
Speaker 1: early season ducks and more hands because inherently someone that
Speaker 1: doesn't hunt waterfowl and is testing it out is going
Speaker 1: to be like hunting those early season environment They're gonna
Speaker 1: end up with probably more more hands, more drab. You know,
Speaker 1: early season ducks. Have you hunted up in You've hunt
Speaker 1: in the north where you start hunting early and the
Speaker 1: ducks are so drab because they don't have their full
Speaker 1: fall plumage yet. It's hard, it's hard to identify them.
Speaker 1: You know, that's a whole another point. But Canada gloves
Speaker 1: off on pintails. They can shoot for a day and
Speaker 1: ten Mallard's too about see because duck I D is
Speaker 1: so hard early in the year. You know, Canada's season
Speaker 1: open September one. Well, ducks are like right at the
Speaker 1: tail end of their you know, they're they're just coming
Speaker 1: out of the nest, right, and they've pretty much said, like,
Speaker 1: we don't expect people to be able to identify hens
Speaker 1: and drakes that early. So you can just shoot four
Speaker 1: pintails a day in Canada and doesn't matter sex. So
Speaker 1: if I'm I guess, if I'm complaining about this ending
Speaker 1: up killing some extra hen pintails and hen mallards, I
Speaker 1: have to complain about that too, Well, it's it's it
Speaker 1: warrants pointing out though that not like waterfowl just just
Speaker 1: we should explain to the folks a little bit. Most wildlife,
Speaker 1: most of all game animals are just administered within the state,
Speaker 1: like each date runs their own program because the state
Speaker 1: it's dear or kind of it's deer, right, and one
Speaker 1: state could like totally screw up as dear heart, and
Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily immediately impact the neighboring state. Waterfowl does.
Speaker 1: So waterfowl is managed by the federal government and the
Speaker 1: state government's who work in collaboration to set limits and
Speaker 1: right because you can't have one state totally screwed the
Speaker 1: pooch on it and then have it be that the
Speaker 1: next date suffers the consequences during the migration. But not
Speaker 1: only that, but we have international treaties, Like our ducks
Speaker 1: are managed at a state level. Our ducks are managed
Speaker 1: at a federal level, and they're managed in collaboration with
Speaker 1: Canada and Mexico. So no one's really like totally going
Speaker 1: at rogue. No. I don't want to be the kind
Speaker 1: of guy that just hates everything new, So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna back up. I'm gonna reserve judgment on the
Speaker 1: tier one tier two thing until you see if there's
Speaker 1: like any kind of like crazy ass harvest difference. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in South Dakota and Nebraska, there's like things that don't
Speaker 1: concern me quite as much. But if this was the
Speaker 1: case in Iowa or Wisconsin, where you can only shoot
Speaker 1: one canvas back and you get of the migratory canvas
Speaker 1: back population, stopping at Pool eight Pool nine on the
Speaker 1: Mississippi River, is that thing? Yeah, So, like the Mississippi
Speaker 1: River is the big stage in ground for canvas backs
Speaker 1: in late October early November. But if all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: like everyone decided to do this, I think you'd have
Speaker 1: these guys that love shooting canvas backsplate, they'd manipulate it
Speaker 1: and they'd go to a Tier two license and be like, well,
Speaker 1: now I can shoot three canvas backs a day. That's
Speaker 1: a great point, and that worries me. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: what when it's a good point. When I was living
Speaker 1: at Washington State. Um, I know that we're not talking
Speaker 1: about Washingtontate, but say Washingtontate had this when I was
Speaker 1: living at Washington State on the coast, you would absolutely
Speaker 1: do it for pintails, right yep, of course you would,
Speaker 1: because your duck hunting boils down like around Thanksgiving, it's
Speaker 1: lights out for pintails. So I'll just be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm going Tier two so I can just go shoot
Speaker 1: three pin tails a day because that's all I hunt anyway. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm out there busting my ass trying to get drake pintails. Uh,
Speaker 1: single one to get drake pin tail. Now I can
Speaker 1: go like, who gives a ship that's gonna do Tier two.
Speaker 1: There's there's locations and states that would have to be
Speaker 1: like exemptions where you just can't do it. They're in
Speaker 1: lies the rub that's like Michigan. The Bluebells and the
Speaker 1: redheads you know, are bluebells dropped till one and November.
Speaker 1: And if you're hunting Lake Erie Ors, I had an
Speaker 1: abbe in November. You have a ton of blue bills,
Speaker 1: So I mean, yeah, you're passing on blue bills. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So if you could buy a license and now you
Speaker 1: can shoot three instead of one, I mean there's guys
Speaker 1: that shoot a lot of blue bills that are gonna
Speaker 1: get that license. Mhmm. Coastal Texas. I think the same thing.
Speaker 1: Pintails and redheads down there, Like those boys just pass
Speaker 1: on pintails and redheads most of their hunts because they're
Speaker 1: already limited, like waiting for an extra species to show up,
Speaker 1: you know. M hmm. We'll see, we'll see. Remember earlier
Speaker 1: when I said, hey, man, just you might not care
Speaker 1: about duck hunton, but you should still listen to this.
Speaker 1: It's because of how beautifully complex the regulatory structure, so
Speaker 1: complex for wildlife. We have a guy we had on
Speaker 1: the podcast long ago. Uh. He's a social scientist and
Speaker 1: he's working on this thing where you you find people
Speaker 1: who are opposed to hunting or suspicious of hunting, and
Speaker 1: then you walk them through certain arguments. Not arguments, you
Speaker 1: walk them through like certain realities and then you ask
Speaker 1: them how do you feel about what I just told you, right,
Speaker 1: and they'll tell you, like, you know here in that
Speaker 1: I feel a little better about it. And they tested
Speaker 1: all these different things. Um, they tested food, right, they
Speaker 1: tested uh, financial structures, so like conservation funding. Dude's name
Speaker 1: was Greg Blaskovic. He explains this whole thing. But try
Speaker 1: all these different arguments out right, and and you see
Speaker 1: what like makes people what what changes their impression? One
Speaker 1: of the things that UH, let me, I want to
Speaker 1: I want to sauce this stuff by telling you what
Speaker 1: doesn't I think that they found it's interesting that people are.
Speaker 1: They're not buying it over population. They don't buy overpopulation.
Speaker 1: When you're like, if you don't hunt deer, we're gonna
Speaker 1: be overrun by deer, they don't buy it. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: think about it too. Who's likely to be anti hunting
Speaker 1: is people like from a more urban setting. It just
Speaker 1: isn't gonna like people from They're not from the egg community.
Speaker 1: So when someone from an urban environment you're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be overrun by ducks, They're probably like, what,
Speaker 1: we're not gonna be overrunning I've seen a duck in
Speaker 1: three weeks, right, It's like it doesn't you know if
Speaker 1: you imagine like who probably is adversarial. It's like people
Speaker 1: of the urban sensibility. So when you lay out to
Speaker 1: them like overpopulation of wildlife, it's just not something they
Speaker 1: live with. And they're like, uh, just this, this is
Speaker 1: not keeping up at night, the destroying the tundra. They're like,
Speaker 1: I've never seen an It's like it's hard for me
Speaker 1: to like, you know, I can't. It's just I don't
Speaker 1: buy it or whatever the hell. But either way, explaining um,
Speaker 1: the regulatory structure like how ship like what we're talking
Speaker 1: about right now is determined and goes on. They're like,
Speaker 1: you know, then people like, oh heck, it's cool. You
Speaker 1: can see that put some ad ease, put some well,
Speaker 1: especially waterfowl should and would because laws with wildlife as
Speaker 1: a whole, it seems like it's taken to the next
Speaker 1: level with waterfowl. It's just that much more complex. I
Speaker 1: have through my career, like I've had a lot of
Speaker 1: exposure to, you know, people publishing production worlds who like,
Speaker 1: do not come from a nature background, do not come
Speaker 1: from a world upbringing, did not grow up hunting. I
Speaker 1: have found time and again people being pleasantly surprised to
Speaker 1: hear that there are rules that govern the taking of
Speaker 1: game were they thought that in their mind they hadn't
Speaker 1: thought about it, but in their mind it's just like
Speaker 1: it must be that you just walk out in the
Speaker 1: woods and yeah, and they're like and you're like, oh no,
Speaker 1: check this one out, you know, and you'll tell them like,
Speaker 1: for instance, there is a you know, you're the the
Speaker 1: end of your muzzle, like the end of your barrel.
Speaker 1: There's a diameter. Okay, there's like a thickness. They tell
Speaker 1: you what's too thick and too thin? Right, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a rule. And not only that, but what the projectile
Speaker 1: is made out of is regulated. They're calling no ship.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I'm just scratching the surface bar Every
Speaker 1: single aspect of it is regulated. Now, As someone who
Speaker 1: didn't grow up in in this world, that is absolutely true.
Speaker 1: People just think it's blood lust, antiquated blood lust. I'd
Speaker 1: say that there's like a decent amount of people. I
Speaker 1: think that's what hunting is. Damn straight. You don't think that,
Speaker 1: do you feel? Of course? Not? All right? Uh? Oh,
Speaker 1: One last thing I wanted to talk about. So now
Speaker 1: Sean's gonna come on with with regularity, yea, to do
Speaker 1: duck segments, waterfowl segments, talk about ducks, the kind of
Speaker 1: ship we're talking about right now, come on, he's gonna
Speaker 1: tell you something you don't already know. Yep for the
Speaker 1: most of you, but uh as a teaser to titillate everybody,
Speaker 1: talk about the complexities that you have right like, you're
Speaker 1: you're traveling around hunting dark state state state in a
Speaker 1: truck for the most part, driving from pulling the boat driving.
Speaker 1: Explain to folks some of the complexities of of managing
Speaker 1: your kill, managing your take. Yeah, it is so much
Speaker 1: more complicated once you get into like even moving a
Speaker 1: duck for starters, has to be wing or head attached,
Speaker 1: depending on where you're at, moving it anywhere, moving it
Speaker 1: anywhere except that's final resting place of like your home.
Speaker 1: Um so not your camper trailer. No, So there's no
Speaker 1: breasting out birds when you're on the road. And this
Speaker 1: is something that I've seen very neglected. I guess I
Speaker 1: would say just in general with waterfowl hunters, that people
Speaker 1: don't really care about it or know about it until
Speaker 1: they get written a ticket for it, right, They don't
Speaker 1: realize that it has to have a wing or a
Speaker 1: head naturally attached until you get to your house and
Speaker 1: they're content going somewhere and breasting out their birds, and
Speaker 1: they've probably done it dozens of times and driven home
Speaker 1: with you know, no problem. But then it's the one
Speaker 1: time they, you know, run into a game warden that
Speaker 1: they all of a sudden they're aware of the and
Speaker 1: see a lot of these federal offense and a lot
Speaker 1: of these waterfowl regulations are so stringent because of the
Speaker 1: market hunting days, because there was no rules around waterfowl
Speaker 1: in the market hunting days, that once the rules did
Speaker 1: come about, they were like really laid down. The law
Speaker 1: really really had to be serious and particular to stop
Speaker 1: the market hunting. And you actually had certain places that
Speaker 1: were like holdouts. The Illinois River Valley is notorious for
Speaker 1: like even when the bird treaties came about and market
Speaker 1: hunting was no more, they were like, screw it, We're
Speaker 1: going to keep doing. They were on board, and eventually
Speaker 1: it had to just be like wardens and federal officers
Speaker 1: like pushed into the Illinois River Valley to finally put
Speaker 1: the kabash on on market hunting because they were gonna
Speaker 1: lose it all man, I mean we're gonna like lose ducks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing, Like it's amazing that we have that we
Speaker 1: can even sit here and talk about shooting three canvas
Speaker 1: backs a day because there was a point where they
Speaker 1: were just on a string. You know, there's almost no
Speaker 1: canvas backs. Wood ducks as well, and giant Canada geese
Speaker 1: you know, that's another whole another story. Yeah, it's crazy
Speaker 1: when you read Elder Leopold Sand County Almanac, um, which
Speaker 1: he was writing in the es his idea of what
Speaker 1: it means to see a goose, Yeah, compared to now
Speaker 1: like trying to get him off the golf green. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you can like finish out the round or whatever
Speaker 1: you play golf. Um, just wildly different situation. And that
Speaker 1: was in Wisconsin, right, what I meant to see a
Speaker 1: Canada goose in Wisconsin, which now is you know, one
Speaker 1: of the better goose hunting states, and like they're everywhere
Speaker 1: also Wisconsin. Doug during um talking about being a kid,
Speaker 1: and you saw a deer track southwest Wisconsin, you saw
Speaker 1: a deer track. You ran home and told my dad
Speaker 1: so crazy. So um, back on the like traveling with waterfowl,
Speaker 1: so you have to have them attached the wing and
Speaker 1: wing or head. But then in addition, you have to
Speaker 1: have the birds tagged, which is another thing that like
Speaker 1: people are just so not aware of, is like your name,
Speaker 1: your address, your hunting license number, etcetera. This you know
Speaker 1: what the what the bird and sex is. Um, all
Speaker 1: this information has to be like with the bird as
Speaker 1: you travel, and the birds have to be separated. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that that can't be frozen all together. That's a
Speaker 1: rule I violated a thousand times in the field. Is
Speaker 1: that you're in a blind with a couple of guys,
Speaker 1: are in a boat with a couple of guys, and
Speaker 1: you've got a pile of ducks land there, and I
Speaker 1: am they're supposed to be those birds are supposed to
Speaker 1: be like that's mine, that's mine, keep on a string.
Speaker 1: It can't be that there's a pile of ducks in
Speaker 1: the boat and you have to you know, I think, uh,
Speaker 1: I think that's been something that for a long time
Speaker 1: game wardens didn't bother with, didn't prosecute. It was one
Speaker 1: of those things that was a law that wasn't acted on.
Speaker 1: Was was like when they show up to a boat, say, okay,
Speaker 1: you tell me whose birds are Who's right? But now
Speaker 1: it seems like it's kind of had a almost a
Speaker 1: renaissance of sorts, or maybe people are just more aware
Speaker 1: of more cases of it across the country. But in general,
Speaker 1: party hunting is not allowed for waterfowl period. Like you
Speaker 1: have to claim what what you shot or what you
Speaker 1: didn't and it's hard because you have a flock of
Speaker 1: birds coming in and everyone's you know, together shooting at
Speaker 1: these birds. Sometimes it can be hard to know like
Speaker 1: who shot that hen mallard. As a waterfowl hunter, you
Speaker 1: just have to be responsible of like acknowledging that's the
Speaker 1: law and making a conscious effort to be like, oh
Speaker 1: I shot that duck, like that is going in my
Speaker 1: pile in this boat, or Max, I know you shot
Speaker 1: that duck, so you need to like claim that duck,
Speaker 1: take ownership of the dock, not just throw it in
Speaker 1: the big master prey. And because ultimately, if there's four
Speaker 1: hand mallards in the boat and two hunters, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's you know two hand mallards a guy, it'd be
Speaker 1: nice if that was the law right if it was
Speaker 1: like a party hunting deal, but it's not. It is
Speaker 1: a you cannot party hunt for waterfowl. So Max can't
Speaker 1: go shoot four hand mallards and give me two of
Speaker 1: them and be like, we're good, We're at our hand
Speaker 1: mallard limit. It's just not the case. You gotta you
Speaker 1: gotta keep it separated. And if you're doing a lot
Speaker 1: of duck hunting, you gotta keep eating ducks. You gotta
Speaker 1: eat a lot of duck. Boy, do we eat a
Speaker 1: lot of duck because you can't because possession possession limit.
Speaker 1: And we you're cooking ducks right now, cooking them in
Speaker 1: the crock pot right now. We eat duck every day.
Speaker 1: We gotta find you chili recipe. Yeah, we gotta find
Speaker 1: he hasn't make duck chili right now. We've already had
Speaker 1: two trips. Just put all it just legs. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: you get the birds that are your nice pluckers, right
Speaker 1: that you want to like keep the skin on and
Speaker 1: do up nice. Then you get the ones that like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's just no saving them chili ducks. So what do
Speaker 1: you got to tell everybody what you got going on
Speaker 1: right now? So you caught up hallo peneals. Yeah, it's oh,
Speaker 1: it's a there's nothing fancy about that chili recipe, but
Speaker 1: it's good. There's hallo peenose, onions, some chili packets, salary um,
Speaker 1: green peppers, a bunch of duck legs, a bunch of legs.
Speaker 1: Is goose in there too. There's some goose in there,
Speaker 1: and you cook it all down, pick the meat off,
Speaker 1: fill the bones out, then shred it, throw it all
Speaker 1: back in veggies. Croc pot yep, croc pot chili. Pretty
Speaker 1: pretty good after after a cold day on the water.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a what you got pot? Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we're just hearing there, just just to close
Speaker 1: out one of our he's not in the room right now,
Speaker 1: but one of our camera guys was talking about being
Speaker 1: it out at a remote uh shack in Alaska, and
Speaker 1: this guy had this rule that anyone that didn't clean
Speaker 1: their plate, that food went into a pot and on
Speaker 1: Friday that was the meal. Yeah, just the scattered leftovers
Speaker 1: warmed up in a pot. Very very motivational. Zero waste, man,
Speaker 1: zero waste. I want to try it for a while,
Speaker 1: just see really what what that ends up tasting. Mike
Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna we're gonna go hunt. Yeah. Now
Speaker 1: we're gonna go try to shoot some redheads now that
Speaker 1: it's totally daylight out. Yeah, it's all right. Divers are
Speaker 1: a little different than your traditional puddle ducks. All right,
Speaker 1: thanks everybody for tuning in. Are you ready to let
Speaker 1: me try those shoes on? Go ahead and putting birds on.
Speaker 1: Here it is. Let me know what you think. I'm
Speaker 1: just squeezing there real quick, right on, you gotta lock around,
Speaker 1: take a couple of right out perfect. Last thing to
Speaker 1: remember this, check out duck Lore. It'll be on meator
Speaker 1: on our YouTube channel. Meters YouTube channel. Check out duck Lore.
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Speaker 1: Thanks Everyboddy