1 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to you Need Therapy. My name is 2 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: Cat and I am the host, and today I am 3 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: coming to you solo. Well, I'm coming to you kind 4 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: of solo. I'm gonna let you in on some of 5 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: the behind the scenes pictures of what it's like to 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: be me running a podcast. And I was getting so 7 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: amped to release this episode with this human that I 8 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: had planned because I, like somewhat in my head, planned 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: things out of when they're going to air. I planned 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: for a certain one to come out today and guests 11 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: who ran out of storage on their computer and was 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: frantically deleting stuff and accidentally deleted the conversation that would 13 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: be me. So I'm so sad that that happened. And 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: at the same time, the human that it was with 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: what you know, who you are is the most gracious, 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: understanding person ever and work to just recorded again and 17 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: it's going to be fine. And what I choose to 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: believe is we needed to record it again for some reason. 19 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: And also what I choose to believe is that that 20 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: happened because what is about to happen needed to happen. 21 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: So I was planning after that to do an episode 22 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: on being single and dating and all of the like 23 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: stuff around that, especially in the pandemic, because a lot 24 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,279 Speaker 1: of the questions that you guys send me for couch 25 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: talks or even just like d m s and stuff 26 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: that I'm able to get to and read there are 27 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: a lot of them are about singleness and dating and relationships. 28 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: So I was going to do that, but then I 29 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: remembered I had this very vulnerable conversation with someone named 30 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:41,199 Speaker 1: Jamie Towrkowski a couple of months ago that I also 31 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: wanted to share. So today I decided I'm going to 32 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: kind of combine both of those things kind of Soday, 33 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna get a little bit of just me and 34 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: then some bits of my conversation with Jamie. And if 35 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: you don't know who Jamie is, he is the founder 36 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: of an organization called to Write Love on Her Arms. 37 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: This organization was created to give hope and help and 38 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: healing and help people find healing for individuals struggling with 39 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: their mental health, specifically depression, anxiety, and suicide. And one 40 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: I'm just going to throw this out there now, you 41 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: need to go follow them so you can follow to 42 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: Write Love on Our Arms at at t W l 43 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: o H A on Instagram and you can follow Jamie. 44 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: His name is a little bit harder to spell, so 45 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: i'll put it in the notes, but at Jamie Twurkowski. 46 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: So they're awesome. And while you're out it, maybe um 47 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: go follow me at cat dot de Fata and the 48 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: podcast at You Need Therapy podcast also to write lot 49 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: of our arms. I'm all over the place today, but 50 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: their merchant is awesome. Go check it out because all 51 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: of that stuff helps what their organization does. So I 52 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: just want to put that out there. So today we're 53 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: gonna be talking about things, and then I'm gonna bring 54 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: Jamie in and parts of the conversation I had with 55 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: him for the podcast, I'm gonna weave it into this. 56 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: So this is not actually going to be an episode 57 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: on singleness like I've originally planned. I want to talk 58 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: to you about straight up lonely nest today. So this 59 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,399 Speaker 1: episode is for everybody. I think that the past year 60 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: has taught us more about loneliness than any of us 61 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: wanted to learn. I can say that for myself, we 62 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: felt more lonely than ever before, you know, and and 63 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: in different ways that we haven't felt it. So I'm 64 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: going to talk about singleness today. But what I want 65 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: to say loud and clear is you don't have to 66 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: be single to be lonely. And also, some of you 67 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: who are single may not experience the feelings of loneliness 68 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: because of the fact that you're single. So again, this 69 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: episode is for all of us, because all of us 70 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: have experienced the feeling of loneliness this year, and if 71 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: you haven't, then you really need this episode because it's 72 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: important to feel our feelings. So before we just get 73 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: into loneliness, if you have not listened to the episode 74 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: titled All of the Feelings, I want to do a 75 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: quick recap on why I think it's important to talk 76 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: about your feelings so much. You guys know, I'm a 77 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: big supporter of feelings, not just because I'm a therapist, 78 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: because I guess maybe it's problem because I'm a therapist, 79 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: but they just are necessary and also plug if you 80 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: love feelings, to go by some of our merch. That 81 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: T shirt that we have is so cute. Feel your feelings. 82 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: I cropped mine, I wear all the time, get lots 83 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: of compliments on it. You need it. Great reminder anyway, 84 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: So I want to talk a little bit a little 85 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: bit about feelings and why. I think they're important for 86 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: us to feel. So not feeling your feelings is just 87 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: shoving energy of the feeling in a place that it 88 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: doesn't belong, and then whatever actually does belong in that 89 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: place gets like pushed out sideways, and feelings need to 90 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: come up for air, and they're going to come up somehow, 91 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: and um if we don't pay attention to them, and 92 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: they come out in ways that usually aren't very helpful 93 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 1: to us. So essentially, feelings are energy, and the energy 94 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: is going to go somewhere, so why not use it. 95 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: I also think feelings are guides and tools that help 96 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: us lead us to what we truly need. And maybe 97 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: it's not comfortable all the time, but what it does 98 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: do is it helps us get to places that we 99 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: need to go and that we really want to go. 100 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: I don't think feelings are good or bad. They just 101 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: are what they are. I have a list of feelings 102 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: I used to have enlisted in my office. I need 103 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: to print it out again. But a lot of clients 104 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: will say, like, why is there only one good feeling? 105 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: And my response is there's not There's not any good 106 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: feelings and there's not any bad feelings. There's just feelings, 107 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: and we need to start looking at them that way. 108 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: So I don't think loneliness is a bad feeling. Their 109 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: guides and their tools. They're like car lights on a dashboard, right, 110 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: So I think a lot of times are like, well, 111 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: actually this was me this week. I'm currently driving my 112 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: mother's car because my car is in the shop. But 113 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: I had my engine light or I don't know what 114 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: it was, the engine light or the a light that 115 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: needed to be taken care of. So I like came 116 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: on and at first my reaction was like, oh my god, 117 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: I want to ignore this. I don't want to pay 118 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: attention to this. I want this to go away. But 119 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: that wasn't a bad sign. It was a good sign 120 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: saying hey, there's something up with your car. You need 121 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: to go take care of this so it can run properly. 122 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: And I did. And so I want you to think 123 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: about feelings as kind of like car lights on the dashboard. 124 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: They're telling you that you might need to get gas, 125 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: you might need to oil change, Hey something's about to 126 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: light on fire, you need to pull over. So they're 127 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: good for us to pay attention to. It doesn't mean 128 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: that they're good or or bad individually, So why should 129 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: we lean into them instead of suppressed them. All of 130 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: our maladaptive behaviors like passive aggressiveness, self loathing, codependency, and 131 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: ability to say no, drug use, eating disorder behaviors, all 132 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: of those behaviors are I believe symptoms of a feelings disease, 133 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: and the feelings disease is ignoring our feelings, and these 134 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 1: symptoms are unhealthy mechanisms to keep us from feeling our feelings. 135 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: That they're unhealthy mechanisms to help us be able to 136 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: continue to suppress what is really going on. These things 137 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: smother and they distort our feelings. They turn things like 138 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: fear into a rage when really you're not really angry, 139 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: you're just very scared. And so that's why I think 140 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: it's super important to lean into them, is because if 141 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: we don't, like I said, it's going to come out 142 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: in another way. So today let's focus on loneliness. What 143 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: is loneliness and how can it affect us? So when 144 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: we pay attention to our loneliness and we're aware of it, 145 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: it actually can help us build intimacy with ourselves and others. 146 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: It encourages us to connect, It encourages connection in general, 147 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: when you are aware that you're lonely, you can go 148 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: seek out your need, which might be a phone call 149 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: from a friend or I mean, it could be a 150 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: million things. It doesn't even have to be connection with 151 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: a individual human. It can be connection to yourself. If 152 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: you know you're lonely and try to act like you aren't, 153 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: you won't be motivated to get what you want. So 154 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: if you're like, I'm not lonely, I'm fine, I'm just 155 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: going to stay home and sulk and ignore all of this, 156 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: then what you're not doing is taking that tool that 157 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: guy that's like, hey, this is what you need. This 158 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: is what you need. This is what you're essentially being like, 159 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to go left instead of right, even though 160 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: the map clearly says to go right. Also, this is interesting, 161 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: emotional pain that we feel from loneliness hits the same 162 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: neural pathways in the brain as physical pain. So loneliness 163 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: can cause intense sense of discomfort, and well, we as 164 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: humans do not like feeling uncomfortable. This is where we 165 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: in certain that means strategy. So I say that because 166 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: a lot of times, especially like breakups or moves, when 167 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: you you are leaving a group of friends or a community. 168 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: People are like, I feel it in my body, Like 169 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: my body feels pain. It's like yeah, because the emotional 170 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: and the physical pathways in your brain are very, very 171 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: look similar and the same things light up inside of 172 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: your brain. So I want you to know you're not 173 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: crazy if you feel that. Now, this is the thing. 174 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: When we insert that numbing strategy, and because we don't 175 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: want to feel uncomfortable, we become unaware of our loneliness. 176 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: It creates things like apathy and distance, and this moves 177 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: us into darker spaces that feel almost like black holes. 178 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: And if we don't listen to that pain, right, pain 179 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: as a motivator, that is okay, Like I want you 180 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: guys to hear this as pains motivator. That's why, Like 181 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: essentially it hurts when you touch a hot stove. That 182 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 1: motivates us to not put our hand on the stove. 183 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: Like that's a good thing. It's a good thing that 184 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: we can feel that pain. I want you to implement 185 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: that when it comes to your emotions of like, this 186 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: is a motivator, Like I'm lonely. It's not that I 187 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: want to get rid of my loneliness, but it's saying, hey, 188 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: stop hiding, come out from the woods or the forest, 189 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: and let's lean into some connection of some sort, whether 190 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: that's with people, or ourselves or God. Now, when it 191 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: comes to relationships, I think we don't want to acknowledge 192 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: that we feel sad or lonely and where we are 193 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 1: because that makes it real. Right, If something's real, then 194 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: we have to deal with it. I would argue that, like, 195 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: if something's real, then we get to deal with it 196 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: and we get to do something about it. Leaning into 197 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: what lets us know that we care, brings us closer 198 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: to getting to what we need. Okay, so leaning into 199 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: whatever it is lets us know that we care. That 200 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: brings us closer to getting what we need. And maybe 201 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: it's not what the world tells us that we need 202 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: to have a good I'm putting that in quote A 203 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: good and fulfilling life. Yeah, I want you to hear that. 204 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: I think the world has a lot of solutions to 205 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: loneliness and all that stuff, and I want you to 206 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: hear me saying like, leaning into your feelings in and 207 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: listening to those guides might not bring you to what 208 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: the world tells you that you need. So here's where 209 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: I want to share clip from my conversation with Jamie 210 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: where we were talking about depression and how Jamie identified 211 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: something being off. He quickly leaned into the fact that 212 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: when he feels the most depressed is during the healing 213 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: process of breakups, and he was super honest and super 214 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: vulnerable here. And I want you to hear what can 215 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: happen when you do lean into and listen to being 216 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: in your feelings. And yeah, it's not comfortable what he 217 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: talks about, but it can lead you to a healing process. 218 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: So I want you to hear him talk about this 219 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: from the beginning to what he says on the other 220 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 1: side of it. So here it is. Can you describe 221 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: for you, because I think depression feels like so different 222 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: for different people, and for somebody who's never experienced depression, 223 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: it's hard to wrap your head around it too. Can 224 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: you describe to me when you first felt bouts of 225 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: that coming on and what it was like for you 226 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: and how you knew like, this is not me, it 227 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: seems like a little bit off. Well, I think it's 228 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: interesting because I think for me it was and I 229 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: mentioned this earlier, but it's always been so closely tied 230 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: to breakups, and obviously going through a breakup and being 231 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: sad is human, you know. So I also think there's 232 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: some blurry lines between like am I grieving a relationship 233 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: or am I struggling with depression? Or is it both? 234 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: And at what point is one the other? You know so, 235 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: And I don't know all of those answers, but I 236 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: think for me it was sort of like my first 237 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: real breakup and then realizing weeks and weeks and weeks 238 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: were going by where I was just so sad and 239 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: so devastated and you know, felt a bit paralyzed by it. 240 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: So maybe that was where it started to feel like, hey, 241 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: this is more than just me being sad, and and 242 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: in a way I don't feel the pressure to separate 243 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: one from the other. But I think in my ongoing 244 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: I'm someone who has struggled with depression. The lowest lows 245 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: were always related to the end of romantic relationships. And 246 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, just I think hard to fall asleep 247 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: at night, not wanting to get out of bed in 248 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: the morning, just not wanting to be around people. I 249 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: think it can affect pretty much any aspect of life. 250 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: Feeling hopeless. Am I ever going to recover Am I 251 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: ever gonna feel happy again? Am I ever gonna be 252 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: in love again? And I've been away from heartache for 253 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: years now, but I still I'm still aware that I'm 254 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: someone who struggles. I'm just thankful that I haven't had 255 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: my heartbroken in a while. Well, you kind of mentioned 256 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: some of those things. You were just saying the stories 257 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: that we make up through things like breakups can be 258 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: like so devastating. So for you when it was like, 259 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: when you go through that, do you remember some of 260 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: the stories that would spin in your head about what 261 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: the breakup or what the heartache meant? Because we have 262 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: a feeling, and as as a human, we like to 263 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: make a story out of a feeling and make up 264 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: a story a lot of times, and they're not really 265 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: great stories. Yeah. So I mean, no, that's a good question, 266 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: And I mean that's I feel like I talked about 267 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: that in in counseling. I talked about all, you know, 268 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: all the different stories that I've come to believe for 269 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: different reasons. But you know, I think it's easy to 270 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: feel like this was my great love and I blew it. 271 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: You know, this was my one chance and I was 272 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: meant to marry this person. And I screwed it up. 273 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: And yeah, I think I think just like the guilt 274 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: and the shame that comes with, you know, regret and 275 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: feeling feeling like I I did something wrong or I 276 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: am something wrong, and that led to the loss of 277 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: this thing that I believed in and wanted so much. 278 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's tricky because I feel like I 279 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: talk to my counselor about this so much, so it's 280 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: tricky to remember which stories are which. But yeah, and 281 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: I think too as as you get as I've gotten 282 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: further down the road and and you know, you kind 283 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: of look back at a lot more history, it's easy 284 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: to feel regret where it's like, man, is this Am 285 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,119 Speaker 1: I ever going to get it right? And I lovable? 286 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: Can I can I actually put together a committed relationship? 287 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: You know? So some of those stories. And it's interesting 288 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: because a lot of what I know you guys stand 289 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: for is finding hope. But how do you find like 290 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: the hope again? I mean, I think I'm thankful for 291 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: where I am now because it's tempting to you know, everything, 292 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: so much of what you and I have been talking 293 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: about the few minutes, it's like romantic relationships and it's 294 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: it's tempting to just want to put hope right back 295 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: there and think that's the only thing that can heal 296 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: me or make life good or make you know, almost 297 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: like this, if I could just be in love, that 298 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: would be my salvation. And and that's that's tempting, and 299 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: obviously that's what so many songs tell us. But I 300 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: feel like I'm in a place now where I believe 301 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: that life is worth living whether I'm in love or not. 302 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: And of course I still want to find a great, 303 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: big love, but it's like I find hope in my 304 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: family and my friends, and my little dog, and the 305 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: sunset and my nephews and just all these simple things 306 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: that are they're they're they're not as awesome as being 307 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: in love. But it's like life can be good even 308 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: without a romantic relationship. So one of the healing agents 309 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: to loneliness is being and feeling no well. I think 310 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: that our culture, especially in the pandemic, has gotten this 311 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: a little confused, because we are on our phones more 312 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: than ever before now, and this was already starting to 313 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: become a problem before the pandemic, and then in the pandemic, 314 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: it's like, what else do we do and so there's 315 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: just been an influx of people reaching out to social 316 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: media to really truly find their connection and to really 317 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: truly feel like people know them and see them. And 318 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: I think parts of us are curating what we want 319 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: to be real, true relational connection outside in the world. 320 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: We're settling for this essential kind of it on Instagram. 321 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: And I actually found myself getting a little frustrated because 322 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: I think it's really awesome and honorable and so needed 323 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: when people post the reality pictures of like them having 324 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: a hard day and maybe crying, or them not looking 325 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: like they do when they have their full face of 326 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: makeup and their whole outfit and their glam on. And 327 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: then also I think it can be really powerful when 328 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: people get on Instagram are very vulnerable and share things 329 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: through video. And I think there's such a time and 330 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: a place for that, because I think that's nice because 331 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: we are on our phone the majority of at the time, 332 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: it's nice for us to see people being real, so 333 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: we're not just comparing what I say, are our insights 334 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: sit there outside, so we get to see a little 335 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: bit of people's insides. Now, pardon me, was getting frustrated 336 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: this past week with that because I think that that 337 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: is good for us to do, but it's the why 338 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: behind we're doing it, because also we can do that 339 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: just because we want to connect, and it's okay to 340 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: connect through Instagram, but we have got to remember that 341 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: we need real, outside human like not on a computer 342 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: screen connection. And so sometimes when we have that urge 343 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: to get on Instagram and share a really vulnerable thing 344 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: and maybe we're we want to film a story and 345 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: we're crying and we're emotional, that is awesome and I 346 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: think it is great for us to be able to 347 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: see people do that. And I want to encourage you 348 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: guys to dig into the why am I doing this? 349 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: Am I doing this to show people that life isn't 350 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: a highlight reel? Am I doing this because I need connection? 351 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: And I am a little bit afraid to go out 352 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: into the real world and get it because it's it's 353 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: harder to call a friend and cry to a friend 354 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: than it is. Sometimes it seems weird because it's like, wait, 355 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: you really want to cry to like thousands of people, 356 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: but there's a screen and a lot of the followers, 357 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: like I'll even seek for myself, a lot of my followers, 358 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: I don't really know them. So there might be three 359 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: thousand people watching my story, but I don't know them, 360 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 1: and I'll see them in day to day life and 361 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So all on that to say, 362 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: I think it is wonderful. I've said this fifteen times 363 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: because I don't want you to hear the wrong thing, 364 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: but I think it's wonderful when people are sharing realness 365 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: on Instagram and Facebook and whatever. And I think we 366 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: also have to remember we need to reach out to 367 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: people in real life too. We need those real, one 368 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: on one intimate conversations because intimacy is not just feelings. 369 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: Intimacy is relational and there's a back and forth in that. 370 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: And on Instagram, yeah, there might be a d M 371 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: or two, but it's not as much of a back 372 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: and force and it's not as much as a give 373 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: and take and receive kind of thing. So that I 374 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: want to share an excerpt from Jamie and I's conversation 375 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: about how we were talking about how we cure loneliness 376 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: with social media and curated vulnerability. That word curated vulnerability. 377 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: I think it's really important. And he kind of shares 378 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: how to get out a cycle, and I think this 379 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: is a really powerful part of that conversation. I believe, truly, truly, 380 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: truly that a lot of the mental health issues we 381 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: have that's around addiction and depression and anxiety come from 382 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: what you said this like fear of vulnerability, which is 383 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: really a fear of being known, like fully known, fully seen. 384 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: Do you feel comfortable at answering that question of like, 385 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: for you, what is scary about people really seeing you? 386 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: What scares you about people knowing you? How might that 387 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: show up in your life that you've had to kind 388 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,959 Speaker 1: of battle with or yeah? I think, um, I mean, 389 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: I think shame is a big one. I think shame 390 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: comes to mind. I also think there's sort of this 391 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: selective vulnerability, right because like you know, the people who 392 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram think I'm super honest. I feel 393 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: like I'm capable of this selective vulnerability, you know, where 394 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 1: it's like hey, I'll share this vulnerable thing today. But 395 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: but it's kind of like, okay, well what a kind 396 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: of going back to your question, like what about all 397 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: the stuff you choose not to share? And and and 398 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: I also think like there's obviously there's different forms of 399 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: being known. And I used to think sharing something with 400 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: everyone kind of that Instagram example was like that was 401 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: being known and that was powerful and radical and helpful. 402 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,959 Speaker 1: And now I feel like a lot more interested in 403 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: do I share this with my counselor do I share 404 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: this with my best friends? Do I share this with 405 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: my sisters? Like truly being known by a few people, 406 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: and there's value and there's a place for being vulnerable, 407 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: you know, with the public, or trying to encourage people 408 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: out of my own vulnerability. That whole idea of what 409 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: do I share on Instagram? For trying to show up 410 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: as these like vulnerable people? But am I being like 411 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: is this really me? Or is this what I want 412 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: you to see and think of? Very that's what it is. Yeah, No, 413 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 1: it's fascinating. I actually I've had the thought recently where 414 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: I feel like, for a bunch of years, in recent years, 415 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: I feel like I treated It's hard to articulate, but 416 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: but almost like social media was real life and real 417 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: life wasn't that interesting. Real life was actually sort of 418 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: boring and not uninspiring, but I could like use it 419 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: to find things to share, you know, And uh, And 420 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 1: I actually feel like only recently have I stopped operating 421 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: where I feel like I've been able to flip those back, 422 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: which is healthy, which is like, Oh, I am a 423 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: person that exists in the world, and every now and 424 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: then I choose to share something, but I'm not constantly 425 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: thinking about Instagram, you know what I mean. And I 426 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: feel like that's like I don't know some of that. 427 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: I just moved back to Florida, and I keep telling people. 428 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: I feel like one of the silver linings of the 429 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: pandemic is I feel like it's just taken away fomo 430 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: because I moved back to my hometown in Florida and 431 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: it's really sleepy and simple. But I don't know, there's 432 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: a I feel like the lack of fomo has felt 433 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: really healthy for me where it's like, oh, I'm just 434 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: it's a lot easier to be present, you know. I 435 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm missing out on some cool life somewhere, 436 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: because life seems pretty hard, hard and weird everywhere. What 437 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: would be scary and what would be showing up for 438 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: us as like problems and issues and fears around shame 439 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: and vulnerability if Instagram wasn't a thing, if we didn't 440 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: have it. When I asked, uh, like, what's scary about 441 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: showing up for you? You went straight to talking about Instagram, 442 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,719 Speaker 1: and it's like, well, that's just how our brains are, right, 443 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 1: how did this happen? When did this happen? And it's 444 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: not going away? Yeah, well it's all I think. It's 445 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: also like it can it can so easily be a 446 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: bit of a drug, like especially when you know it's 447 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: like in real life, I'm alone with my dog most 448 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: of the time. Sometimes I go get a coffee or 449 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: I pick up food, like it's just all this like simple. 450 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: Or I can share something vulnerable with fifty people and 451 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: it's like, of course that's gonna be a lot more interesting, 452 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: and like you know, it's like I might hear from 453 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: fifty people in ten minutes. I can't. I'm not going 454 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: to experience that in normal life, you know. But I 455 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: also think I think I feel like I kind of 456 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: dodged or maybe accidentally dodged like two questions ago. But 457 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: I'm wired where it's it feels good to be called vulnerable, 458 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: like you know, you kind of it's like, wow, Jamie's 459 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: brave or Jamie's honest, and he's a he's a writer 460 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 1: and he's sensitive. But it's like I think with the 461 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: shame is like oh, Jamie has regrets, and Jamie makes 462 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: mistakes and has hurt people and done just like all 463 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 1: that's all the stuff wrapped up in the shame, you 464 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And the vulnerability can be very curated, 465 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: like you know what I mean, Like it's it's it 466 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: almost feels like it's this vulnerability that's totally on my terms, 467 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, where it's like I can figure out exactly 468 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: what to share, exactly how much I can sit with 469 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: the wording. And I think that makes a case for 470 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: me of counseling where it's like just to be totally 471 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: not not only to be honest about those specifics, but 472 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: also how to try to move beyond them to healing, 473 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: you know, so not just like, oh, we're gonna talk 474 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: about it for an hour and it's gonna suck and 475 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: I might cry, but but but actually with the goal 476 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: of like how do I move through this, how do 477 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: I process these feelings memories in ways that are healthy, 478 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: Which I'm so glad you said that because one of 479 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: the biggest issues and I will say I'm a therapist 480 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: who goes to therapy, and one of the more recent 481 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: things that my therapist asked me was, do you think 482 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,239 Speaker 1: you're vulnerable. And I was like, yes, I'm a therapist, 483 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 1: and she was like, but she's like, you should ask 484 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: your friends if they think you're vulnerable. And the first 485 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: friend that I asked was like, um, yeah, yeah, And 486 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,719 Speaker 1: I was like what I was like offended? But the 487 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: truth is I can go into a counseling session and 488 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: talk about whatever my own because I know that therapists 489 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: can't say anything to anybody, So I can say anything 490 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: I want and it's not going to cause conflict. It 491 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: might make me uncomfortable for an hour, which is what 492 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: you said for an hour, and then I closed the 493 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: door and I go for a walk, I shake it out, 494 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: and then I go on into my life. We can 495 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: like curate our vulnerability totally, but what happens, Like what 496 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,479 Speaker 1: happens when you leave those spaces? What are we supposed 497 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 1: to do with that? What am I scared of? Like? 498 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 1: What am I scared of when I leave that room? 499 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: What am I scared of? Taking that stuff with me 500 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: and doing something? Yeah? And I feel like I tell 501 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: other people and I try to remind myself that I 502 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: love the idea of counseling as like practice. Say, we 503 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: go once a week for an hour, well, obviously there's 504 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,959 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of other hours in the week. And 505 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: my hope is that it kind of gets me started 506 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: down down the road of Okay, this is what it's 507 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: like to talk openly, and I'm probably not going to 508 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: talk to everyone in my life the way I talk 509 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: to my counselor, but hopefully I share some of those 510 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: things outside of counseling. Yeah, well, and you shouldn't, because 511 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: I think that there's a like total line that we 512 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: miss of like intimacy and how it grows and how 513 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: there needs to be time that I think sometimes we 514 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: get it. I get excited. I'll speak for myself, and 515 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: I see a lot of people getting excited of like intimacy. 516 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: Let's do it, and let's tell everybody are deeper started 517 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: secrets and we're gonna be so connected. And then it's like, okay, 518 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: what now. It's like, intimacy is something that has grown 519 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: through time and building up trust and like how people 520 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: see you, So we shouldn't the relationships we have with 521 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: a therapist. It takes us some time for people to 522 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: open up and really be honest and really get to 523 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: the reason why why they're they're in the same way 524 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: outside of the room, it should be We shouldn't be 525 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: telling every single person every detail and every part of 526 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: our problem, especially if it's unprocessed. So I think there's 527 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: no shame in that of like learning who and when 528 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 1: and what to share and open up about. Because I 529 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: think what I hear in vulnerability is when somebody's like 530 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: they're so vulnerable, it's like, well, they can just emotionally 531 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: purge everything on the internet. That's not vulnerability, that's just 532 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: information now and closing after all of these feelings. What 533 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: I want to share with you guys is that sometimes 534 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: our feelings lead us to straight up needing help. And 535 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: one of the reasons I started this podcast was to 536 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: make it easier and less stigmatized to need and to 537 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: get help and to ask her help when it comes 538 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: to mental health. So, because of who Jamie is and 539 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: what he stands for, I wanted to talk with him 540 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: about why he thinks it's so hard for people to 541 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: get help in our healing process. And I think what 542 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: he said is so simple yet so profound. I want 543 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 1: you guys to hear it loud and clear. So here 544 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: is what Jamie said when I asked him why he 545 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: believes it's so hard for people to get help these days. 546 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: What do you think makes it hard for people to 547 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: get help or I mean just go to therapy, but 548 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: in the larger scheme get help when it comes to addiction, depression, 549 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: self harm, suicide. What are some roadblocks? We are afraid 550 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: of judgment? I kind of say that with the Royal 551 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,479 Speaker 1: we you know, just that so many people are afraid 552 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: of being labeled, being misunderstood. Kind of like if someone 553 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: knew the truth about me, how would they feel, how 554 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: would they treat me? What would it cost me? You know, 555 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: could it cost me my relationship, my marriage, my job, 556 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: my roommate. And so I think there's all these reasons 557 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: that sort of reinforce stigma or the idea that hey, 558 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: everyone else is busy, they got their own stuff, they 559 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: don't need to be burdened with my stuff. Those are 560 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: all examples of things that keep these conversations from happening, 561 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: you know. And and and we kind of reinforced the 562 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: silence and the secrets um and then I think I've 563 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 1: just come to believe that there's so much value in 564 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,239 Speaker 1: in being open and being honest. I don't know, like 565 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: an epic way to say it because it's so simple 566 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: but just, and it's I feel like I feel thankful 567 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: to get to lead by example, just as someone who 568 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: does get to talk about not only the experience of struggling, 569 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: but but with that the experience of asking for help 570 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: and taking an antidepressant and the idea that so many 571 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: of these problems and the solutions are not radical, they're 572 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: they're pretty simple. But but to someone who's never stepped 573 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: into counseling or never talked about, you know, trauma from 574 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: their childhood, or the pain or shame that they live with, 575 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: like that can be so scary, right, You're just on 576 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: the edge of this, so much uncertainty, and you know 577 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: all sorts of negative things that can be wrapped up 578 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: in that. But I think just I like to tell 579 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: people that it's it's not easy, but it's worth it. 580 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: Like I think that's true of recovery. I think that's 581 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: true of healing. Like I even I love the idea 582 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: that it's it's probably safe to say if if you 583 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,959 Speaker 1: make your first counseling appointment, that might start out as 584 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: the scariest hour of your week, but I feel like 585 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: so often it can get rewired where it ends up 586 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: being the most important hour of your week, and not 587 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: that it's like super fun or like you know, not 588 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: that it's always happy or easy, but there's a feeling 589 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: of progress and and healing and letting go and believing 590 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: better things and and just that it's it's worth it 591 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: to engage in this in this stuff. I think the 592 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: idea that the solutions aren't radical is like a radical 593 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: thing to say, because our problems seem so heavy and big, 594 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: and so we think that we're going to need a huge, heavy, 595 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: big like firework solution when it's like it could be 596 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: a conversation that is really what you need to help 597 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: your healing. And and also healing isn't one time boom 598 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: in your face. Everything's better, and we want that because 599 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: our world is so stuck on like things being big 600 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: and exciting, and so I think the idea that just 601 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: spreading that solutions aren't radical, like a radical problem doesn't 602 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: need a radical solution, it might a really simple solution. 603 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: I love that so much. And it's like, I mean, 604 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: there's all these simple examples. It's like you take your 605 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: car in for an oil change, and you go to 606 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: the dentist X amount of times per year, hopefully and 607 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: like were we understand that all of these things in 608 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: our lives require maintenance and sometimes they break down in 609 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: different ways, and it's like why, okay, so what if 610 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: we added our mental health to that list? And of 611 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: course our mental health is more important than than our car. 612 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: So it's like, I do like that idea of like 613 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: to tell people we're dreaming about a world where you 614 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: can talk about those things equally, you know, And I 615 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: totally understand that our mental health is probably gonna be 616 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: harder to talk about than our teeth or obviously our car, 617 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: But I like the idea that of just that openness, 618 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, and that idea that it's just okay to 619 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: get help, and you know, even the idea like the 620 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: way we share favorite restaurants or or hey, I have 621 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: a good dentist, let me let me share the contact, 622 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: like that we could help each other find therapists and 623 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: support groups and just to just to normalize that conversation. 624 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: But for some people it seems so intrusive, or it 625 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: seems so I think sometimes when I'm when I ask 626 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: or throw out like have you been to therapy? Or 627 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: have you thought about going to therapy? They're like and 628 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, I am not offending you, like I think 629 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: there is great, but it feels like it's offensive almost, 630 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: So that means you're telling me there's something wrong with me. 631 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: What I always say is that there doesn't have to 632 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: be something wrong with you to go to therapy. But also, 633 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: if we're on it, we all have things that are 634 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: wrong with us, like we all and that's okay. It's 635 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: part of being a human, all right, guys. Well that 636 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: is it that wraps up this episode. And you know 637 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: how I was talking about in the in the beginning 638 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: and how I deleted the episode that was supposed to 639 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: come out today. I truly do think that God in 640 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: the world and the universe works in beautiful, mysterious ways. 641 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: And there's got to be a reason that y'all needed 642 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: to hear from Jamie and you guys needed to hear 643 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: about loneliness and all of that today. So I'm hoping 644 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: that some of you got what you needed to hear today, 645 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: and I'm hoping that some of this has helped you 646 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: guys become more aware of what you're going through and 647 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: what you need and how to lean into your stuff 648 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: even though it's not easy. And I think I want 649 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: to close with that, like, none of this is easy, 650 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: and I try to make this podcast fun and entertaining, 651 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: but when it comes down to it healing, when it 652 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 1: comes to mental health and being honest with yourself and 653 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: your emotions and and what you what's really going on 654 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: on the inside, it's tough. And I posted this week 655 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: a quote that I heard from a supervisor when I 656 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: started as a therapist, and it was stopped comparing your 657 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: insides to everybody's else's outside. And I want to encourage 658 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: you all to really stop doing that, because is you 659 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: have everything of you, You have all your stuff, whether 660 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,239 Speaker 1: you've cut it off and shut it down or not. 661 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,479 Speaker 1: You have all of this internal stuff and then you 662 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: have this external stuff, and you are comparing all of 663 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: that combined to somebody's just pure outsides. And we can't 664 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: mind read, we can't get into people's psychees. We cannot 665 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: know everybody's past and what's going on at home just 666 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: by looking at one picture they post, or them walking 667 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: down the street, or the car they're driving, or the 668 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: job they have, or what they share about their relationship. 669 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: And so it's so unfair to us to do that. 670 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: And as you guys are are leaning into your stuff 671 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: and becoming more aware and allowing yourself to open yourself 672 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: to what you're really feeling and what you're really needing. 673 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: I want you to hear that, like, don't compare what 674 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: you are opening up on the inside to the little 675 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: bit that you see of everybody else. We're not privy 676 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: to all of that, and everybody has stuff. I need you, guys, 677 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: to believe that everybody has stuff. I have stuff, man. 678 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: I tell you, I have clients that come in my 679 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: office that if I would see them walking down the street, 680 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: or if I would meet them out, or if I 681 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: would just to see their Instagram, I would think their 682 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: lives are perfect. Except I know that nobody's life is perfect, 683 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: and so I have an easier way of pushing that 684 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: idea that like, everybody has it better than me out 685 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: because I get to see the insides of a lot 686 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: of people. I want people to hear that I said, 687 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: if you have not felt lonely this year, at some point, 688 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: in some way, something's off with you. Being honest with 689 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: yourself and listen, feeling lonely doesn't mean that you're like 690 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: life's a mess. I feel lonely all the time, and 691 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: I feel like I have a wonderful eye. So anyway, 692 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: I am rambling. So I hope this was what some 693 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: of y'all needed. And I want to thank Jamie for 694 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: being so honest and vulnerable and having this conversation with me. 695 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: And again, go follow them support to write love in 696 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: our Arms and I will catch you guys on Wednesday 697 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: for couch Talks