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Speaker 1: Hello, Stephanomics. Here the podcast that brings you the global economy.

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Speaker 1: And if you think about the things that are well

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Speaker 1: functioning modern economy is supposed to deliver, food would have

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Speaker 1: to come pretty high on the list. If you're not

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Speaker 1: living in poverty worried about where your next meal is

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Speaker 1: going to come from, you might well take it for granted.

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Speaker 1: But not only more, or at least not for many

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Speaker 1: families in Europe. In the UK, last mark, food price

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Speaker 1: inflation hit a forty five year high, with prices nineteen

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Speaker 1: percent higher than a year ago, and across the channel,

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Speaker 1: food price inflation has also been close to twenty percent

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Speaker 1: for several months. If you're sitting in the US, you

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Speaker 1: probably remember food prices did jump sharply last spring in

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Speaker 1: the weeks after Russia invaded Ukraine. But there the spike

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Speaker 1: proved temporary. That's not been the case in Europe, and

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Speaker 1: people are not happy about it. In a minute, we'll

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Speaker 1: discuss the devil stating implications for the traditional English breakfast

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Speaker 1: and ask a former chief economist from the US Department

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Speaker 1: of Agriculture why it's taking so long for food prices

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Speaker 1: to ease off. Also whether the experience of the past

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Speaker 1: year should change the way we think about the global

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Speaker 1: food chain. But first, Rome based economy reporter Alessandra Miliaccio

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Speaker 1: explains how soaring prices have even put the basic human

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Speaker 1: right to a pizza at risk.

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Speaker 2: Inflation rates may be slowing across Europe, but you wouldn't

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Speaker 2: know it looking at someone's grocery bill. Food prices are

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Speaker 2: still rising at an alarming pace, and there's only so

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Speaker 2: much that governments can do to help people cope. Let's

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Speaker 2: start at La Mansune, a small, family run restaurant nestled

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Speaker 2: in the picture perfect town of Core, located in the

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Speaker 2: Sailer Valley in southwest France. A few tables, a cozy

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Speaker 2: room with a view, and a set menu with local

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Speaker 2: specialties allow owner Alin Falgier to stay afloat the titles.

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Speaker 2: He's kept most items on the menu between sixteen and

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Speaker 2: nineteen euros. But it's a struggle because well we.

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Speaker 3: Other prices are hard, from bread to cereals and animal feeds,

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Speaker 3: and from that you have price increases on meat like beef,

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Speaker 3: lamb poultry, and the same for the fresh fruits and

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Speaker 3: vegetables everything, and for fruits it's even worse. The biggest

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Speaker 3: increase since last year. It's not easy today, Profact.

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg has been tracking custom food and this is across France, Spain,

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Speaker 2: and Italy throughout Europe's worst cost of living crisis in

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Speaker 2: forty years. To calculate them, we figured out how much

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Speaker 2: it would cost to make a traditional dish in each country,

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Speaker 2: from classic cocoven to pizza margarita. To make cocoven, you

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Speaker 2: need to start with chicken, and those prices jumped about

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Speaker 2: eighteen percent in the year through March. Wine is another

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Speaker 2: major ingredient, which costs eight point four percent more than

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Speaker 2: it did a year ago. You can also add carrots,

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Speaker 2: but it'll cost.

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Speaker 4: You more than thirty three percent now compared to last March. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 4: overall inflation in France is running at six point seven percent,

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Speaker 4: still historically high, but pretty low by comparison. Much the

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Speaker 4: same is happening in Italy, where the price of enjoying

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Speaker 4: a classic pizza margharita made with cheese, tomato and basil

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Speaker 4: has been at least twenty percent higher than a year

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Speaker 4: ago for eight consecutive months. That's more than double the

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Speaker 4: nation's headline inflation rate, and even with over ninety billion

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Speaker 4: euros of government aid spent to subsidize energy and gas

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Speaker 4: bills and tax cuts for fuel prices as the pump well,

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Speaker 4: there's just so much politicians can do when prices go up.

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Speaker 4: The government managed to reduce the impact of the first

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Speaker 4: wave of inflation following Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but as

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Speaker 4: prices rise across a wider range of goods, including food,

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Speaker 4: it's becoming too expensive to intervene. Dominic Co Lombardi leads

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Speaker 4: the Policy Observatory at the Lewis University School of Government

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Speaker 4: in Rome. He says governments can't keep trying to protect

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Speaker 4: everyone from inflation.

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Speaker 5: The inflictionary outlook has evolved. Headline inflation is falling. However,

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Speaker 5: core inflation shows to be more persistent than expected, and

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Speaker 5: this comes heavy government support that has further narrow the

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Speaker 5: physical space. Let's not forget the pandemic, the shot course,

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Speaker 5: but the pandemic and then of course the energyender GYO

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Speaker 5: political crisis. So moving forward, the only physical support that

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Speaker 5: looks feasible is more targeted surgical interventions in favor of

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Speaker 5: those most affected.

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Speaker 2: That's not easy for ruling politicians like Italian Premier Georgia

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Speaker 2: Maloney who promised her people they wouldn't be left alone

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Speaker 2: to face inflation, but she has to balance that with

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Speaker 2: keeping the country's fragile finances in check. The opposition has

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Speaker 2: blasted her for canceling a form of citizens income to

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Speaker 2: save money, and the government is now setting other solutions

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Speaker 2: like lower taxes on salaries to help increase purchasing power.

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Speaker 2: In France, retailers have agreed to prolong efforts to charge

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Speaker 2: the lowest possible amount for some essential food items. The

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Speaker 2: three month campaign was announced in early March and set

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Speaker 2: to end on June fifteenth, until the Finance ministry recently

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Speaker 2: announced an extension. Supermarket chains are expected to take a

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Speaker 2: hit to their margins amounting to several hundred million euros,

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Speaker 2: and the European Central Bank has increasingly highlighted the role

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Speaker 2: of corporate profits in the Eurozone's inflation crisis. Here's French

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Speaker 2: President Emmanuel Macron talking about the deal with retailers at

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Speaker 2: the Paris Agriculture Fair earlier this year.

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Speaker 6: Our farmers are paying more for energy, more to produce,

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Speaker 6: and they need to maintain their revenue. They have revenues

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Speaker 6: that are still very weak, so they're not the ones

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Speaker 6: who need to make an effort to reduce food prices.

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Speaker 6: Our food industries have made considerable efforts these last few years,

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Speaker 6: many small businesses and them. It is our distributors who

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Speaker 6: have to make an effort now.

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Speaker 2: Spain's Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has announced several aid packages

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Speaker 2: to help households cope with inflation ever since Russia's invasion

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Speaker 2: of Ukraine last year. He decided to cut the so

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Speaker 2: called value added tacks on a basket of essentials like

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Speaker 2: bread and olive oil. But Spaniards are still paying more

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Speaker 2: to make their prize pay addish, especially after devastating droughts

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Speaker 2: last year wrecked crops like olives and rice. Olive oil,

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Speaker 2: which Spain is the world's largest producer of, costs thirty

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Speaker 2: two percent more in March compared to a year ago,

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Speaker 2: and rice is an extra twenty two percent. But back

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Speaker 2: in the valley of the salea river restaurant owner Folgier

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Speaker 2: tries to make the best of it.

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Speaker 3: It won't keep going up. Some prices will go down

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Speaker 3: at some point. A lot depends on global wheat prices

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Speaker 3: and costs of animal foods. Meanwhile, you just have to

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Speaker 3: go locally. That's what I do. Go directly to the farmers, which,

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Speaker 3: as me, spent maybe twenty percent less that Arrows has

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Speaker 3: to keep prices table and have the same profit, emmins

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Speaker 3: clients can keep going to the restaurant.

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg News in Rome. I'm Alisandro Miyacchu.

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Speaker 1: So not quite as good for your heart as olive oil,

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Speaker 1: but an equally potemic part of Britain's national cuisine is

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Speaker 1: the traditional English breakfast, So we thought we should monitor

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Speaker 1: what was happening to that before we go on to

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Speaker 1: discuss the broader global forces at work in these rising

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Speaker 1: food prices in Europe. And Bloomberg Reporter Arena Angel has

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Speaker 1: more on that arena. Thank you very much for telling

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Speaker 1: us about the Bloomberg Breakfast Index. I guess you should

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Speaker 1: first tell us what exactly if you were eating and English,

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Speaker 1: traditionally English breakfast, what would you be in for?

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Speaker 7: Let's see, so I think it's sausages, bacon, eggs, bread, butter, tomatoes.

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Speaker 1: Mushrooms, fried bread as well, fried bread, yeah, yes, but

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Speaker 1: taste and probably tea. Okay, So what if we found

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Speaker 1: out what is the English Breakfast Index telling us at

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Speaker 1: the moment?

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Speaker 7: So you know, the English Breakfast Index sort of puts

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Speaker 7: inflation in the frying pan. So we, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 7: each month, we use it to track the cost of

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Speaker 7: the ten products or the product you mentioned plus coffee

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Speaker 7: in case. I mean I personally prefer coffee over tea,

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Speaker 7: and we use data from the UK Office for National Statistics.

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Speaker 7: So the latest Breakfast Index showed that the average cost

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Speaker 7: of ingredients increased almost twenty three percent from last year,

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Speaker 7: and it's the sharpest jump since we started tracking the numbers.

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Speaker 7: In June, eggs, bread and milk saw the biggest price. Right,

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Speaker 7: So Stephanie, if you and I go to the supermarket,

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Speaker 7: we're going to pay around thirty five pounds fifty for

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Speaker 7: all the ten products to make a full fry up,

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Speaker 7: which is almost six pounds more than last March.

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Speaker 1: Thirty five pounds. I mean, I guess it depends on

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Speaker 1: what the exchange rate is doing, but that's you know,

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Speaker 1: at least forty five dollars. And of course that's not

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Speaker 1: just for one person. I guess you'd be buying slightly more,

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Speaker 1: would probably be for a few people, but that's yeah.

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Speaker 7: Exactly, Yeah, yeah, that is a lot of money. That's

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Speaker 7: as you mentioned, Yeah, that's using the product sizes that

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Speaker 7: the os provides provides a dozen eggs or a pint

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Speaker 7: of milk, but it's it's a lot of money for

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Speaker 7: a typical family.

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Speaker 1: And how does that compare to some of these other

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Speaker 1: sort of classic meals around the world that we've been

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Speaker 1: talking about.

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Speaker 7: Well, national dishes are becoming a luxury everywhere around the world,

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Speaker 7: sort of bloomberg. We saw it at the in South Africa.

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Speaker 7: The cost of making a traditional barbecue, which sounds delicious

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Speaker 7: by the way, with ingredients like beef, carrots, onions and corn.

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Speaker 7: So the price for that increased twenty percent, mainly driven

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Speaker 7: by fresh products like pepper and tomatoes. Back in Europe,

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Speaker 7: well you know, surging olive oil prices are behind the

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Speaker 7: jump in Spain SPAIA index and they are making pizza

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Speaker 7: malgaita more expensive in Italy. In France also the price

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Speaker 7: of preparing cocovaine ROAs by fifteen percent because of more

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Speaker 7: expensive carrots and chicken.

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Speaker 1: So frice getting out of the out of reach in

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Speaker 1: South Africa would definitely strike fear into the hearts. And

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Speaker 1: when those numbers came out, I was in the UK

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Speaker 1: and there was a sort of collective sigh because of

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Speaker 1: course we've been expecting inflation to slow down, and we've

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Speaker 1: seen in large parts of Europe inflation coming down quite sharply,

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Speaker 1: the headline inflation rate. Why are food prices still rising

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Speaker 1: in the UK.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that's a that's a great question, and that's all

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Speaker 7: the facts as you mentioned this, and plus the fact

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Speaker 7: that global commodity prices have also been declining for a

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Speaker 7: while now. So part of the explanation could be that

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Speaker 7: big food producers in the UK are still tied to

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Speaker 7: long term commodity contracts that they signed back when prices

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Speaker 7: were sky high, so we have to wait for them

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Speaker 7: to renew these contracts until we see the price falls.

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Speaker 7: To feed through and manufacturers, it looks like they keep

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Speaker 7: passing on costs through the supply chain to consumers to

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Speaker 7: protect their margins. However, there are some science inflation is

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Speaker 7: easy in some categories. Some supermarkets including Tesco, as the Sainsbury, Aal,

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Speaker 7: the Little Orcado all lower their price of milk. Tesco

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Speaker 7: is also seeing some deflation for oils and grains and

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Speaker 7: that could mean lower prices for big goods like croissants

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Speaker 7: and all that.

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Speaker 1: So do looking down the road if we decide to

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Speaker 1: pass on the English Breakfast right now because it's too expensive.

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Speaker 1: Is there any chance it's going to come back into

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Speaker 1: reach in the next few months.

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Speaker 7: The good news is even now, on a monthly basis,

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Speaker 7: inflation in the Breakfast index looks like it's looked like,

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Speaker 7: I mean, it's might be already slowing. The price of eggs,

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Speaker 7: mushrooms and tea all fell in March actually from last month,

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Speaker 7: and the butter, milk and bread were unchanged. And we're

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Speaker 7: also entering the UK growing season and that might also

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Speaker 7: slow down food inflation. However, if you ask analysts, they

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Speaker 7: always say that absolute pricing rarely falls, so when we

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Speaker 7: finally see inflation slowing down, we might get more promotional

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Speaker 7: discounts rather than cheaper full price tags. So this all

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Speaker 7: means that the English Breakfast is probably going to stay

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Speaker 7: indulgent in every sense of the word.

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Speaker 1: Well exactly, it's pretty indulgent. Maybe it's better, maybe for

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Speaker 1: the better for the British heart if we have fear

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Speaker 1: of them, I do. I had heard quite a lot

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Speaker 1: of discussion around the fact that the structure of Britain's

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Speaker 1: supermarkets was actually means that when prices are low, more

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Speaker 1: of that is passed on to the consumer. People often say,

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Speaker 1: you know, they go into the supermarkets in general, and

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Speaker 1: more expensive in continental Europe. But the cost of that,

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Speaker 1: the cost of sort of squeezing the last penny out

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Speaker 1: of suppliers, is that times like this you just get shortages.

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Speaker 1: I guess the final question, Arena, can we blame brexit

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Speaker 1: for this soaring cost of the English breakfast?

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Speaker 7: I mean, one role that Brexit good play is that

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Speaker 7: there's labor shortages in the food industry more broadly, and

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Speaker 7: we've been speaking to lots of businesses who mentioned brexitters

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Speaker 7: their top problem that it can't find enough workers.

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Speaker 1: Well, I suspect this is going to continue to be

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Speaker 1: a debate, but Arena Angiel, thank you so much.

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Speaker 7: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to broaden this out. We've heard about

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Speaker 1: a lot of hard pressed European consumers in this episode,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to carry on worrying about them, but

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Speaker 1: we're also going to think about the rest of the

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Speaker 1: world and the potential implications of all these ups and

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Speaker 1: downs of food prices. In the last year. With Joe Glaubert,

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Speaker 1: who is a senior research fellow at the National Food

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Speaker 1: Policy Research Institute, he also used to be Chief Economist

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Speaker 1: of the US Department of Agriculture. Joe, thank you very

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Speaker 1: much for coming on Stephanomics. I'm always conscious when I

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Speaker 1: am hearing about the soaring prices for things like wheat

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Speaker 1: or olive oil that you know, as an economist, demand

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Speaker 1: and supply, I mean, high prices are also a way

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Speaker 1: of deciding who gets none. It's a rationing mechanism when

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Speaker 1: there's a shortage of something. You know, who has got

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Speaker 1: much less food over the last year, and how bad

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Speaker 1: has it been relative to the expectations we might have

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Speaker 1: had when a year ago when Russia invaded Ukraine.

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Speaker 8: You know, I think actually the world's adjusted pretty well

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Speaker 8: to the invasion. You know, no question, the Black Sea

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Speaker 8: was a big producer of wheat and maize and f

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Speaker 8: oils like sunflower oil, and once particularly the a few

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Speaker 8: months after the war started, we saw this big rise

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Speaker 8: in prices. And you know, but by about June or

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Speaker 8: so of the of last year, prices had started to

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Speaker 8: come down again, and in fact, by about the fall

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Speaker 8: they were back to pre war levels. That hasn't been

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Speaker 8: the case for food price inflation. And I think that's

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Speaker 8: a very important distinction to make between commodity prices and

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Speaker 8: actually retail food prices, which is, you know what consumers

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Speaker 8: are facing. And then the develop developed economies like the

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Speaker 8: UK or the US or member states of the European Union,

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Speaker 8: the commodity value is such a small share of the

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Speaker 8: overall food costs, right So if you go to look

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Speaker 8: at a loaf of bread, you know that's five to

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Speaker 8: ten percent of that value of bread that you're purchasing

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Speaker 8: in a grocery store is actually the price of whek.

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Speaker 8: So we can go up a lot, but the price

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Speaker 8: of bread not so much. But by the same token,

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Speaker 8: all of those other post farm gate costs get built

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Speaker 8: into the price of food. So what we're seeing in

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Speaker 8: a lot of economies right now is overall very very

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Speaker 8: high rates of inflation. So that's affecting energy prices, it's

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Speaker 8: affecting processing costs, it's affecting wage rates. All of these

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Speaker 8: things have built into very high food prices. That's one.

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Speaker 8: Some of that is less the case in developing countries

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Speaker 8: where maybe that post farmgate share of the overall food

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Speaker 8: cost is smaller that the price of the underlying commodity

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Speaker 8: means more. But there unfortunately those countries haven't seen quite

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Speaker 8: the price decline as we've seen on global markets. Why

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Speaker 8: because the dollar has remained so high and is actually

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Speaker 8: appreciated against some of those commodities. So if you go

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Speaker 8: to say Egypt, and look at the price of wheat

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Speaker 8: that you know is used bread as a huge staple

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Speaker 8: in a country like Egypt, those prices have increased substantially,

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Speaker 8: and you know, right after the war began, But they

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Speaker 8: haven't declined nearly as much as they have on global markets.

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Speaker 8: Why because the Egyptian pound has has lost value relative

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Speaker 8: to the dollar, and because commodities are most commodities are

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Speaker 8: denominated in dollars, that means in local currency, so those

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Speaker 8: prices haven't fallen nearly as much.

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Speaker 1: You've actually highlighted a good point. I mean, we have

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Speaker 1: looked at some of the causes of Eurozone inflation over

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Speaker 1: the last year, the increase in the inflation rate, and interestingly,

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Speaker 1: our economists found that a big chunk of the increase,

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Speaker 1: not just in the food sector, but across the board

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Speaker 1: was from European companies expanding their profit margining margins, which

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Speaker 1: I guess some people would call price gouging. So there's

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Speaker 1: definitely a lot of things going into that higher price

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Speaker 1: in the shop in the shops. But you know, we

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Speaker 1: tend to blame one way or another the Ukraine invasion

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Speaker 1: by Russia with these issues. But I feel like I

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Speaker 1: was hearing about serious problems with fertilizer prices and some

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Speaker 1: commodity markets long before Russia's invasion.

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

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Speaker 8: Yeah? No, absolutely, And if you were to look at

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Speaker 8: commodity prices generally, and that's certainly the case for wheat,

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Speaker 8: in maize, in vegetable oils, they were all rising prior

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Speaker 8: to the invasion. I mean, this was the big concern,

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Speaker 8: even prior to Russia invadeing Ukraine, as we were looking

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Speaker 8: back in January twenty twenty two at very tight global

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Speaker 8: stocks and we're looking at fairly high prices now. The

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Speaker 8: expectation was that farmers would respond and by the end

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Speaker 8: of the year we would have rebuilding the stocks that

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Speaker 8: didn't happen because of the war, And I think that

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Speaker 8: is the war has had definitely an impact there. But

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Speaker 8: when we talked about those commodity prices down to pre

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Speaker 8: invasion level, they are still running very much above levels

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Speaker 8: of say two years ago or back to twenty twenty.

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Speaker 8: Even in the case of energy prices or fertilizer prices.

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Speaker 8: They're down eighty percent from there from the peaks that

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Speaker 8: we saw in the spring of twenty twenty two, but

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Speaker 8: still one hundred percent above where they were in January

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Speaker 8: compared to January twenty twenty. So, yes, prices are high.

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Speaker 8: They have come down a lot, but they're still high

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Speaker 8: relative to historical levels.

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Speaker 1: And I guess when we think about higher energy prices,

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Speaker 1: we often forget that that feeds that has also affected

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Speaker 1: fertilizer prices, which then affects future crops of countries years

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Speaker 1: into the future.

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Speaker 8: Right, And don't forget that energy costs are very much

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Speaker 8: embodied in food. Food costs ultimately, I mean transportation, all

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Speaker 8: the transformation, depending on and even at the farm level,

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Speaker 8: some crops are very very energy intensive, you say, particularly

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Speaker 8: when you factor in fertilizer and other products.

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Speaker 1: COVID was another sort of force on making us think

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Speaker 1: about this that people realized when we had these supply

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Speaker 1: chain issues globally, that dependence on just one or two

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Speaker 1: suppliers for anything, whether it's you know, widgets or grain,

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Speaker 1: is not necessarily a healthy thing. Do you think do

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Speaker 1: you see efforts by countries by agricultural businesses to broaden

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Speaker 1: their sources of supply. Is that one lesson that comes

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Speaker 1: out of all of these experiences COVID, Ukraine invasion and

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Speaker 1: other things.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I know, there's no question. I think the market

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Speaker 8: actually has responded pretty well, particularly bulk trade. Weak corned

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Speaker 8: countries were able to source alternative sources for their products.

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Speaker 8: There wasn't a case where we just ran out of wheat.

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Speaker 8: People were able to find wheat around the world. I

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Speaker 8: think the longer run, as we look forward, I think

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Speaker 8: the real key is flexibility to be able to pivot

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Speaker 8: and seek alternative sources. I'm not sure that you necessarily

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Speaker 8: would diversify just for the sake of diversification. It's a

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Speaker 8: strategy and it's much like an insurance product. You have

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Speaker 8: to look at what the cost of diversification is. So

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Speaker 8: if I'm Egypt and I'm looking across the Mediterranean at

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Speaker 8: a very black sea area looking at very cheap source

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Speaker 8: of wheat, if I were to say, well, I'm not

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Speaker 8: going to import from them because I want to diversify

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Speaker 8: to a much more higher cost supplier, that's the cost

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Speaker 8: you have to pay. And so I think the if

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Speaker 8: you look at what Egypt was able to do by contrast,

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Speaker 8: is they were able to pivot import from India, import

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Speaker 8: from the EU, and so I think having that flexibility

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Speaker 8: is was really important. And that does mean having the

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Speaker 8: ability to tap alternative sources. So I'm not saying that

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Speaker 8: diversifications the wrong strategy. I'm just saying that you don't

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Speaker 8: diversify just for the sake of diversification, that you need

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Speaker 8: to be able to be flexible to pivot to other areas,

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Speaker 8: to find sources when there are disruptions, and the obvious

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Speaker 8: disruptions that we're seeing right now, and I think unfortunately

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Speaker 8: the long run disruptions because of the continued low prices

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Speaker 8: in Ukraine and we're seeing you know how that's affected

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Speaker 8: plannings in the fall last year, they are now affecting

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Speaker 8: supplies this year. The ongoing war, the fact that it's very,

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Speaker 8: very costly to ship product out of Ukraine right now,

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Speaker 8: all that has longer term significance for the region.

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Speaker 1: I guess the final question is whether any of this

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Speaker 1: has accelerated or changed the attitude to some of these

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Speaker 1: exciting technological break throughs that we hear about in other

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Speaker 1: parts of the economy, whether it's robotics or AI or

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Speaker 1: genetic engineering. Is there is the debate around deploying that

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Speaker 1: in agriculture and having a second or are we at

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Speaker 1: this point a third or a fourth green revolution. Has

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Speaker 1: that debate changed in the space of the last few years.

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Speaker 8: Well, I think two thousand and seven, eight, twenty ten,

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Speaker 8: eleven they were real wake up calls because we're under

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Speaker 8: invested in agricultural productivity for so many years. That's and

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Speaker 8: now seeing this over the last year, particularly with starting

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Speaker 8: actually with COVID and now seeing the problems in the

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Speaker 8: Black Sea. Yes, you're right. I think that there's increasing

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Speaker 8: calls now to increase productivity in areas like sub Saharan Africa,

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Speaker 8: areas where we see big gaps between yield potential and

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Speaker 8: actual potential and then our actual production. And then the

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Speaker 8: other issue is fertilizer. You know, unlike where you know,

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Speaker 8: wheat has grown in a lot of areas around the world,

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Speaker 8: you know, something like potash, you're talking about just a

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Speaker 8: handful of countries that are major producers. And so I think,

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Speaker 8: you know, interest in things like green fertilizers and other

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Speaker 8: sorts of technologies which are still a ways off. I

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Speaker 8: think there's renewed interest in putting more research dollars into

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Speaker 8: that area to again, in this case, you know, look

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Speaker 8: at more sustainable ways of increasing improving productivity.

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Speaker 1: So that's Deephonomics for you folks. We have one week

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Speaker 1: we had grand financiers in la and the next week

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Speaker 1: we're talking about potash. Joe Glaba, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for helping us out with this.

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Speaker 8: Glad I could be of help.

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Speaker 1: Well that's it for this food focused episode of Stephonomics.

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Speaker 1: We will be back next week. In the meantime, you

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Speaker 1: can get a lot more economic insight and news from

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Terminal website or app. This episode was produced

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Speaker 1: by Mangus Henrikson, Yang Yang and Summer Sadi, with special

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Speaker 1: thanks to Alessandra Milaccio, Irina Angel and Joe Glauber. The

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Speaker 1: executive producer of Stephanomics is Molly Smith and the head

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Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Podcasts is Sage Bowmen.