1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic and you're listening to a 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: brand new season of Next Question. Thank you, Thank you 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: very much. I'm starting this season, our fifth, if you 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: can believe it, with a bang. Jessica Chastain is not 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: only one of the most talented actors working in Hollywood today, 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: she's also an outspoken advocate for gender equality who's making 7 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: films and choosing roles that put women and equal pay 8 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: front and center. She's also up for her second Oscar 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: nomination for her truly transformative role as Tammy Faye Baker. 10 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: Have you never done pictures without those eyelids? No, and 11 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,279 Speaker 1: I never will because that's my trademark. And you know 12 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: if I take that away, then it's not me. We're 13 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: going to get to all of that and more, but 14 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: first we start with al Pacina. Don't worry, it makes sense. 15 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: When I was interviewing al Pacino on Sixty Minutes, he 16 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: took me through his production company, or we were walking 17 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: through an edit room, and he showed me a video 18 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: of you dancing in one of your earliest films, and 19 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: you were dancing with your head back and spinning around, 20 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: and you had this beautiful red hair, and he said, 21 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: this girl is going to be a huge star. How 22 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: funny is that? It's insane? I mean al Pacino was 23 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: actually the one who really discovered me before I got 24 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: cast a Salome. I mean, the industry had no idea 25 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: what to do with me, and he was the one 26 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: that really kind of was like, hey, you guys, look 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: over here. And so it really started my career. Really, 28 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: how did he how did he find you? I know 29 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: you were you studied at Juilliard, but how did you 30 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: cross paths with al Pacino of all people? Well? I was, um, yeah, 31 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: I went to Juilliard and I was doing a playoff Broadway. 32 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: I did a playwrights Horizons, Richard Nelson play called Rodney's Wife, 33 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: and I had done that not thought much about it. 34 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:15,839 Speaker 1: It wasn't like I made a ton of money doing 35 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: it or anything like that. I was doing it just 36 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: for like the love, you know, to get to do 37 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: theater in New York. And then I went to visit 38 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: a friend of mine um in Australia, and I got 39 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: a call from my agent that said Alfacino wants you 40 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: to come in an audition for Salom. I was like, what, 41 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense. I don't know anyone connected 42 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: to Alfacino, and I guess what had happened is Marta Keller, 43 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: who um is a good friend of his. Uh an 44 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: actress who um the what's it the Bobby Deerfield movie 45 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 1: or or where he plays a race car driver. I 46 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: forgot the name of that film they did together. But 47 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: she saw Rodney's wife and um and then told him 48 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: when he when he said he was going to do 49 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: you know, the movie of Salome, she said, you should 50 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,119 Speaker 1: look at this actress. Wow. And that's really you think 51 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: what started it all? Oh? Yeah, I mean I know, 52 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: even like you know, I was having so many difficulties 53 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: getting an audition for films. I was doing really good 54 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: at pilot season, not really booking anything, but I was 55 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: getting a ton of auditions during pilot season. And I 56 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: remember recently reading um an article like Backstage where a 57 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: casting director was talking about her experience. And in the 58 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: article she said, I remember Jessica Chastain coming in and 59 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: she had like four auditions that day, and she looked 60 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: kind of messy and sweaty. I was like, oh God, 61 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: that's probably why I didn't book anything. It was constantly 62 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: like I was driving everywhere you know, I had like 63 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: a whole like makeup station in the trunk of my 64 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: car depending on what the character was. Um, but no luck. 65 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: And then when i'm you know, if you're an unknown 66 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: actor and you're playing salom A in the place salom 67 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: A opposite Al Pacino in Los Angeles, everyone in the 68 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: industry comes to see it. So it I could not 69 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: have had a better showcase. That's such a great story. 70 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: So what year was that, Jessica? Oh god? Uh so 71 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: the Tree of Life came out in two thousand eleven. 72 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: I made Tree of Life in two thousand and seven. 73 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: I don't know, two thousand and five or two thousand 74 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: and six maybe is when we did the play because 75 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: I'll also, when I was auditioning for the Tree of Life, 76 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: wrote Terrence Malick a letter and that said like basically, 77 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: you know, I know sometimes it's when you don't know 78 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: who you're casting as a lead, it can be intimidating. 79 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: But I've worked with her, and um, he kind of 80 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: vouched for me. That was my reference letter. Alba, Oh 81 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: my god. So I mean, do you still talk to 82 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: al now that we're on a first basis? Yeah? Completely, 83 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: you know, he's my acting godfather. Call him on his birthday, like, 84 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: he's great. I love I love him. He will always 85 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: be such a huge part of my I mean he's 86 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: the reason why I have a career right now. So yes, 87 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: he's I I love him and I am. One of 88 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: my favorite movies is sent of a Woman I show 89 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: you you don't know, and I'm such I I love 90 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: al Pacino two. And it's nice to hear how generous 91 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: he is and how supportive he's always been to you 92 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: and protective. Yeah. Really yeah, like in an industry, you know, 93 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: he knew he knew the ropes really well, and he 94 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: was incredibly protective of me um coming into the industry, 95 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: and like really made sure that I always even like 96 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: in Salomon, you're playing a character that's so sexualized, even 97 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: as it was starting out, it was never like, oh 98 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 1: you have to do nudity. It was like whatever I 99 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: was comfortable with. He had always been like That's why 100 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: I call him my my acting godfather. He had always 101 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: been so kind and protective and nurturing and so Yeah. 102 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: In addition to being a brilliant actor, like one of 103 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: our greatest screen actors, he's a he's a wonderful person. 104 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: We're gonna have to send him a copy of this 105 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: podcast since we're seeing as phrases so much. When we 106 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: come back, how Jessica Chastain took control of her career. 107 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: You are kind of taking control of your own destiny 108 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: because you started your own company in two thousand and sixteen, 109 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: Freckle Films, after making this incredibly impassioned speech Jessica at 110 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: the two thousand and fifteen Critics Choice Awards. Today's Martin 111 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: Luther King Jr's birthday. So it got me thinking about 112 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: our need to build the string of diversity in our 113 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: industry and to stand together against homophobic, sexist, misogynistic, anti Semitic, 114 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: and racist agendas. UM Martin Luther King Jr. Said, Our 115 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: lives begin to end the day we become silent about 116 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: things that matter. And I would like to encourage everyone 117 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: in this room to please speak up. Thank you. How 118 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: did that speech inspire you to branch out and to 119 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: do this on your own and to really take control 120 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: of your fate. Well, honestly, I wasn't really I didn't 121 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,239 Speaker 1: really know what to do. I had the Critics Choice 122 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: I won this kind of It was the first ever prize. 123 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: It was for Someone's body work that year, and I 124 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: had so much come out. I didn't really know who 125 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: to thank because I had multiple films that were being celebrated, 126 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: and it was like the morning of UM. I Loved Selma, 127 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: I Love Avia di Verne, and I felt like, you know, 128 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: I was sad that that film didn't get acknowledged in 129 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: the way that it should have been. And so I 130 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: just felt like, well, what if I can take this 131 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: moment that I have the kind of inspires um us 132 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: to like look inward um and and understand that if 133 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: we're not actually making but if we're not actively trying 134 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: to move the needle in terms of inclusivity, then in 135 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: some sense we're part of the problem. So I just 136 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: kind of took that moment to look, well, maybe I 137 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: can take this platform and amplified that UM. And I 138 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: was super happy because at the end of it, I 139 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: someone showed me later it was like cut to Oprah 140 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: and Eva, and I was really happy, like the fact 141 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: that they I don't know, I just really I grew 142 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: up watching Oprah AND's and I was just I loved 143 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: that moment and I and I then went forward to 144 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: go like, Okay, well, how can I now use whatever 145 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: platform I have to help encourage our industry to move 146 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: the needle in terms of um stories about women. And 147 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: in fact, Freckle Films has produced three movies, including the 148 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: Eyes of Tammy Faye UM and The three fifty five, 149 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: which is an all female espionage thriller that came out 150 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: this year. How does it feel different for you to 151 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: be at the helm of these films versus other experiences 152 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: when you weren't well. I guess the big difference is 153 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: I get to participate in the storytelling aspect. So like 154 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: with Tammy Faye, we had already had so much in 155 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: her life like that was kind of tabloid e UM. 156 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: And I remember my research reading about Jessica Hahn and 157 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: her saying she just kind of wanted to not she 158 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: wanted to be left alone and not connected to Jim 159 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: Baker anymore into that part of her life. And when 160 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: I read that, I thought, well, and we're making a 161 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: story from Tammy face po V and Tammy and Jessica 162 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: actually never met in real life. Why would we include 163 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: the salacious details of Jessica Hant, especially when she doesn't 164 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: really want to be included in And reminded I didn't 165 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: want to profit off of another woman's trauma. So I 166 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: guess in terms of storytelling, you can kind of shape 167 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: a story and go, no, we're actually gonna the audience 168 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: and everyone expects us to tell one story, but I'm 169 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: not gonna fall into that. That's we've already been there, 170 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: We've already um, you know, focused on the salacious, gossipy stuff. 171 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: Let's what if we do something else that we don't expect? 172 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: And so I guess producing you get to have that. 173 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: Say you have been obsessed with Tammy Faye Baker for 174 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: for quite a while, han't you? What is it about 175 00:10:54,440 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: her and about her story that felt so compelling to you? Jessica, Well, 176 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: you know I was on the press tour for zero 177 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: Arc thirty and talking about that film a lot, and 178 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: when when I saw the documentary again, you know, I 179 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: was jet lighted somewhere, and I guess I focused so 180 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: so much on playing a character who was very an 181 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: eye for an eye, you know, so much was about 182 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: revenge and you hurt me, I'm gonna hurt you, and 183 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna hurt you worse. And you know, it felt 184 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: like when I was watching the documentary was like this 185 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: healing bomb. It was such a different thing that Tammy 186 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: Face stood for. She was really into UH forgiveness and 187 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: UM believing that everyone is deserving of love without judgment, 188 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: which is like kind of like it's a beautiful, radical 189 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: act of love if that's truly how you can live. 190 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: And when I saw that, I was like, Okay, I 191 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: just felt like something I wanted to tell just because 192 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 1: of what I had already spent time focusing on UH. 193 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: And then also I wanted to go back and celebrate 194 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: her the incredible things she did. I mean the Steve 195 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: Peters interview, her bringing him onto her show. He was 196 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: an openly gay minister with AIDS and she it went 197 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: it completely went against the all the conservative evangelicals at 198 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: the time, I mean, politicians weren't even talking about the 199 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: AIDS epidemic. And she brings Steve onto her show and 200 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: she looks into the camera and she reminds Christians what 201 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: it means to be Christian and you wrap your arms 202 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: around people and you love through anything. And I just 203 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: found that so moving, in such a radical act of love, 204 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: and it was a political act in some sense, and 205 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: she was never acknowledged for that. That was incredibly strong 206 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: and brave and right of her to do that, and 207 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: so I wanted to celebrate that act of courage. Tammy 208 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: Faye was really caricatured in the media and and became 209 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: almost cartoonish in her portrayal. I remember you no covering 210 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: her in the nineties, Jessica and I had one of 211 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: those shirts that said I ran into Tammy Faye Baker 212 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: at the mall or Tammy Faye at the mall that 213 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: had two big mascara stains on it, and um. She 214 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: was really I think underestimated and mischaracterized because of the 215 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: way she presented herself, wasn't she Absolutely? I mean that's 216 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: something the media really does though, right, I mean that's 217 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: something society does, and society women in the past have 218 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: been taught to be as small as possible, to take 219 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: up as little space as possible. Your voices have to 220 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: be quiet, beefin, be demure, you know, be submissive, don't 221 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: you know, don't talk to don't take up too much 222 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: space talking. Let the men do things. You know. It's 223 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: all about being as quiet and small as possible. And 224 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: she was the opposite. She was like, you know, gonna 225 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: sing as loud as she could. She was gonna laugh 226 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: and cry and let her motions be everywhere, and we're 227 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: the makeup. That was just what society could say was garish, 228 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: but she because she was saying, this is my expression 229 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: of how I feel. It was like this. It was 230 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: like drag. You know. She was expressing how she felt 231 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: on the inside on the outside, so much so that 232 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: when people kept trying to change who she was, she 233 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: tattooed her face so no one could really like, no 234 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: one could wipe her makeup off, no one could change 235 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: Tammy Faye. And um, I think she was mischaracterized because 236 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: of that. I think it was because she refused to 237 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: play the role of the quiet, submissive minister's wife. She 238 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: was a minister in her own right. She went to 239 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: school for it, she ministered, and she was her own person, 240 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: separate from Jim Baker. Did you have assumptions about her 241 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: that were that were shattered by the documentary because you 242 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: probably consumed information about her and read about her and 243 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: saw her in the way she was trade by the media. 244 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: So what chattered those assumptions? Was it the documentary or 245 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: was it doing research for this film? Tell me how 246 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: your perception of Tammy Faye really shifted? I absolutely had 247 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: assumptions about her. I mean, the church lady on SNL 248 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: bringing Tammy Faye, like the Tammy Fay on Tammy we 249 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: have a bit of goop on our face. Oh I'm sorry, 250 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: that's mascara. Excuse me, I'm sorry, or Tammy Faye on 251 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: the Drew Carey Show. It was like playing up the joke, 252 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: like what you say that T shirt? I mean she 253 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: would hold the T shirt and laugh. She loved camp, 254 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: she loved um making people smile and laugh, so she 255 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: in some sense was like okay to be in on 256 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: the joke, to be like the butt of the joke. 257 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: I still think it hurt her probably. Um My assumptions 258 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: were what I read on the tabloids. You know, she was, 259 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: for me as a child, an example of what I 260 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: didn't want to be. Um. I didn't want to be 261 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: someone who society deemed was unattractive, you know, because of 262 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: like how they you know, or a thief, like all 263 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: of these things that the media had put on her. 264 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: That's what I assumed. And then definitely even like the 265 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: mess this is crazy, the mascara running down her face. 266 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: There's so many people that I've talked to about this film. 267 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: And they go, oh, I remember sitting in my room 268 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: and watching an interview with She's crying and there's mascara 269 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: running down her face. And I always go like, are 270 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: you sure that happened? Because the or or are you 271 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: remembering a comedy sketch where mascara is running down the face, 272 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: Because the reality is I watched everything I could get 273 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: my hands on. There's not one photograph or one video 274 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: of Tammy Faye with mascara running down her face. But 275 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: we all have this collective memory of who she was 276 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: bay on satire and tabloids, and we see that as 277 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: we saw that as truth. And so I guess that's it. 278 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: Reading all of her books, watching you know, seven years 279 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 1: to research her and and prepare for the character. So 280 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: it really very quickly got rid of any misconceptions that 281 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: I in misinterpretations that I had. Do you admire her 282 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: when all is said and done, or do you see 283 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: her as a flawed person? I mean, after all, they did, uh, 284 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, live high on the hog, as they would say, 285 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: with contributions to the church, and you know, did a 286 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: lot of things that aren't particularly admirable. I'm just curious 287 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: how you feel about her now. That you know her intimately. Yeah, 288 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: well I love her now. I mean I've never met her. 289 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: I love her, and I can tell you for me personally, 290 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: I don't believe the prosperity doctrine. I don't believe. I 291 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: think money always corrupts. I think this idea, but it's 292 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: in every religion. I mean, look at the Vatican. Money 293 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: is so closely tied to faith, and I think that's 294 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: absolutely an issue. Every Sunday we passed the played around 295 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: um to donate. I think with tele evangelism, it's your 296 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,479 Speaker 1: congregation is now like so many people, the money just 297 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: becomes more it's it's more intense, but it's it's still 298 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: this every it's still the root of money corrupts. And 299 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: so when money is closely tied with faith, is that 300 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: a pure thing? I like, look back at everything that happened. 301 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 1: I don't think she ever lied to the public. I 302 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: think she was not very intelligent when it came to money. 303 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: Because she wrote four books and she recorded over twenty albums. 304 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: All of her royalties went straight to the church, and 305 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: then she took her salary from the church and in 306 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: the reality, what she should done. It's kept all of 307 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: her royalties and then take nothing from the church, and 308 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: I think that would have given her a better perception 309 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: from the public. It's heartbreaking at the beginning of the 310 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: film Jessica to see how she was other rise from 311 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: the very beginning, having been born to a mom before 312 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:27,439 Speaker 1: she was married, and made to feel different than her siblings. 313 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: It was heartbreaking, and yet she was able to overcome 314 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 1: that with this incredible inner strength. And maybe because of 315 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: that she developed this incredible inner strength. But where do 316 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: you think that came from. I don't think, you know, 317 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: it's interesting. I don't think she was confident. I think 318 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: she played that she was confident. I think you know, 319 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,479 Speaker 1: she was an EmPATH, and she had a very like 320 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: unstable childhood, you know, the father left, and then she 321 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: became the embodiment of the shame of the first marriage 322 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: in this Pentecostal community. And I think you know, with 323 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: an EmPATH, what they do is they walk into a 324 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: room and they find the dark energy because they try 325 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: to fix it. They try to like, if someone is suffering, 326 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: they want to fix them, they want to make them 327 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: feel better. And so I think her confidence comes or 328 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: what looks like confidence, is more of her trying to 329 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: heal because she felt that by healing someone who felt unloved, 330 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: she could heal herself. After the break, Jessica does her 331 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: best Ammy Faye, and we talk about what progress women 332 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 1: have made in some areas is quickly unraveling in others. 333 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: You spent hours upon hours in makeup chair, didn't you, 334 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: And it took a pretty serious toll on you. Can 335 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: you talk about that? Yeah? So the first I mean 336 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: the longest it was was seven and a half hours, 337 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: and the shortest might have been three and a half 338 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: four So every day it was quite a journey. I 339 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: mean I would wear compression stockings because after a few 340 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: days I started to get nervous. You know, when you 341 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: sit still. I don't know how people say they can 342 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: sleep in the makeup trailer. I cannot. You know, when 343 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: someone's touching my face, I'm like, okay, look this way, 344 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: look that way. I look up down. I had earbuds 345 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: in and I would watch um the hundred. I had 346 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: hundreds of hours of unused footage that the documentary filmmakers 347 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: gave me for research. I was constantly every morning in 348 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: the makeup trailer, studying her, sending her voice, watching her interviews. 349 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: So by the time I got to set, I felt 350 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: like ready and like, really, Keyton, did you watch her 351 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: final interview I think with Larry King when she was 352 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: she was I think dying of colling cancer at the time. 353 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,959 Speaker 1: She died a few days after that interview. Did you 354 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: watch that? Because obviously the film doesn't cover that. Yeah, 355 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: I mean we thought, like, are we going to cover 356 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: that part of her life? Um? And ultimately, like there 357 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: was a scene in the documentary that I found so 358 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: incredibly moving, um where she goes back to do a 359 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: concert and she's really scared and it's the religious community, 360 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: and you know, there was a woman who was kind 361 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: of mean to her and then or like saying mean 362 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: things about her, and and then she walked up to 363 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 1: this woman, not even knowing that that there was this 364 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: behind her back happening. She's like, hi, honey, how you 365 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: doing today, and like reached out to her, and then 366 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: this one was like in the front row, like clapping 367 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: for the concert. I just thought it was so beautiful, 368 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: like switching the energy around, like you can be getting 369 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: something negative and just like that usually means that someone 370 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: needs some love. So if you return that with love, 371 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: it completely changes their demeanor and I liked that ending 372 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: for her. I didn't UM. I didn't want to really 373 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:11,959 Speaker 1: go into the cancer and her you know, physical ailments 374 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: that came after. I really, to me, wanted to connect 375 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: to her faith and her relationship with love UM because 376 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: I thought that that would be the most healing, and 377 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: especially you know, at the end the whole speech of 378 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: like God looked at me and said, Tammy, Phil I 379 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: love you, and I love you just the way you are, 380 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: and God loves you just the way you are. That's 381 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: actually something she said in one of her performances. And 382 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to end with that. I wanted the audience 383 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: to feel connected to humanity in a different way. And 384 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: I felt like if we had gone, um, you know, 385 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: the route of her physical ailments, it would have taken 386 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: away from that. You know. The role makeup played in 387 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: her life obviously looms large in this film as well, 388 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 1: and there's a very touching moment after she almost accidentally 389 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: overdoes on some prescription meds. She catches herself in the 390 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: mirror and she sits down and she puts on lipstick. 391 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: She's interrupted by Jim and she says, Jim, can we 392 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: talk about Satan later? I'm just starting to feel like myself. UM. 393 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: Tell us about that moment. It it kind of illustrates 394 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: Tammy phase I don't know, happy place or comfort zone, um, 395 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: and the role that that this played in her whole being. Yeah, 396 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: I think you know. We started that scene, we had 397 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: to cut it out. It was too expensive. But her 398 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: favorite song was Kasassa, so I was like humming it 399 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: getting my diet coke. It was like she loved her 400 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: die coke Kaserasra. But then there is the moment she 401 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: looks in the mirror and still is like after like 402 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: even a full face of makeup, she feels like, I'm 403 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 1: not there yet. I'm not I'm not feeling like at 404 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 1: my utmost so she sits down to put more on uh, 405 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: and then Jim coming in with his energy. I think 406 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: it's the first time we see Tammy have a boundary. 407 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 1: You know. So much of the film is this codependence 408 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: where she's taking care of Jim. She's trying to lift 409 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: him up and like and make him feel like more 410 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: of a man and and all of these things that 411 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: he needs to be. And the beginning of that scene, 412 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: she's like, I'm hanging on by a thread here. Let's 413 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: can we talk about Satan and what you're going through 414 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: later and just like give me this moment. I And 415 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: I like that because I think also we as women 416 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: need to do that more, just say whenever, like we 417 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 1: need our moment to say, let's talk about Satan later. 418 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: There's also a great scene where she plops herself down 419 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: at the men's table with a baby on her hip, 420 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: and you know that was kind of a radical act 421 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: back then, where she didn't go to talk about, you know, 422 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: female things with all the women and and a lot 423 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: of this is about the patriarchy of the evangelical movement, 424 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: to which wasn't obviously limited to the evangelical movement at 425 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: the time. But she just wanted to kind of crash 426 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: through those doors, didn't she. Yeah, And I think for 427 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: her she never even saw it as a door. I 428 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: think you know, she went to college and she was 429 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: a minister, and when you know, right when her and 430 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: Jim got married, Jim would actually stopped showing up to study, 431 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: and their teachers showed up and said, listen, dude, your 432 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: wife is going to be like she's gonna be the 433 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: star of the family. Like you gotta like show up 434 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: and apply yourself. Because I think she always had that drive. 435 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: She always wanted to connect to people through faith. And 436 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: when she you know, sees all like the Fallwell and 437 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: Pat Robertson and all of them at the table talking 438 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: about the state of faith in the United States, I 439 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: think that's far more interesting to her at that time 440 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: than like, I don't know, like what the kids are 441 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: eating or what you know, like what's happening. She wanted 442 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: to talk about work and you know, and God, Oh, 443 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to debate to Jerry. I love you, 444 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: I love all of you guys. Reverend follow Yeah, we 445 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: love you too, Jammy Faye. God is my witness. I 446 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: made a pledge to continue to expose the sins in 447 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: this country. The Bible explicitly forbids homosexuality. There's no gray area. 448 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: Um well, you know, I I don't think of them 449 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: as home sexual as. I just think of them as 450 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: other human beings that I love. You know, we're all 451 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: just people made out of the same old dirt and 452 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: God didn't make any junk. I love that moment too, 453 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: because you really see the different forks of the road 454 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: that faith can take. And you know, there's like the 455 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: Tammy phase way of you know, everyone is deserving of 456 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: God's love without judgment. And then there's the Jerry Folwell way. 457 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: And sadly, when I look at this country, I kind 458 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: of see I wonder what would have happened if Tammy 459 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: Faye hadn't been um taken down from the scandals of 460 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: her husband, and if we had we had known that 461 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: faith can be all encompassing and include everyone, and to 462 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,239 Speaker 1: have a more soft approach to that than this like 463 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: hard line of um, if you don't agree with me, 464 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: then you're wrong, or God is on my side. God 465 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: this God believes that you're wrong. I'm right. I feel 466 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: like we're kind of in that phase right now, which 467 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: is the Jerry Folwell um way. It also made me 468 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: wonder what if Tammy Faye had emerged as a national 469 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: figure now versus when she did, and have things evolved 470 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: enough that she could have been as prominent as her 471 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: husband been, uh publicly right, if she wouldn't have had 472 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: to retreat so much behind him. Absolutely, I mean, even 473 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: if you look at her life right after she left 474 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: uh Jim, I mean she hosted a show with Jim J. Bullock, 475 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: who was like an openly gay comedian. Um, she was 476 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: on the surreal life like she she did a lot 477 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: of things. She was absolutely a celebrity in the public eye, 478 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: and she wasn't hiding or or she wasn't in the 479 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: shadow of any man. I think had she emerged now, Um, 480 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: what would have been so beautiful about her is she 481 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: was someone because she knew what it was like to 482 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: feel unloved or unacknowledged or cast aside and cast out. 483 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: She would have looked at any group in society that 484 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: felt that and she would have connected with them and 485 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: been like um, the healing bomb that they needed to 486 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: feel part of something bigger than who they are. So 487 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: I you know, in any time, it's wonderful to have 488 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: someone who represents that. You know, so much of her 489 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: life she was mocked and and ridiculed and shamed, and 490 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: I think in retrospect it says much more about society 491 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: than it does about Tammy Faye and how we treat 492 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: certain women who become a caricature of of themselves. And 493 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: I imagine that's something you wanted to address in this 494 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: re examination of Tammy Faye. I'm very interested in how 495 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: the media perceives women, whether it be like UH political candidates, 496 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: like what do they say, regarding female politicians versus male politicians. Um, 497 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: you know, people working in the media, news anchors, you know, 498 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: what are the standards for each person and in terms 499 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: of like the voices, the clothing, um, you know, even 500 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: like recently who was like Taylor Swift came out and 501 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: starts talking about the difference between you know, she's her 502 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: being a female songwriter and male songwriters. And there's this 503 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: the sense in the media that if you're as confident 504 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: and you acknowledge your talent, in some sense, you are 505 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: um beyond your station as a woman, Like it's like 506 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: know your place, Like you're lucky to get to do this, 507 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: and so thank the people around you who gave you 508 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: the chance instead of saying actually, no, like you're welcome. 509 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: You know, like you think me, you think me. Like 510 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: Sean de Rimes has a great quote when she said, 511 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: you know, all the the articles came out about like 512 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: Netflix and her deal, and it was almost like they 513 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,239 Speaker 1: lured her to Netflix with all this money, and she goes, no, no, no, 514 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: I am the candy. I'm not being lured by candy 515 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: by someone else. I'm the andy that you guys want. 516 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: And it's that idea that we need to understand, and 517 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: society also needs to look at like women don't need 518 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: to be um giving thanks for everything they get the 519 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: reality of society needs to start thinking women for everything 520 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: they give. I love that. I'm gonna I'm gonna make 521 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: a pillow with that. Good. Um. I have to ask 522 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: you about the voice because it was uncanny, and I 523 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: want you to do Tammy Face voice for me a 524 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: little bit. I mean, and how you kind of used 525 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: your throat and your nasally and how did you do that? 526 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,479 Speaker 1: Because it was spot on? Oh thanks, oh god, it was. 527 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: It's not it was not an accent that came easy 528 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: to me. I worked with Liz Hamilstein, who's an amazing 529 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: dialect coach, and Um, first we started just you know, 530 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,959 Speaker 1: with the drills for the Minnesota accent. Everyone thinks Tammy 531 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: was from the South. She wasn't. She was from International Falls, Minnesota, 532 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: which you know, gave her a very folksy way of talking. 533 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: And also I realized by watching so many interviews the 534 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: way she said Jim, that was my way in all 535 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: the time. Jim, am you know, it was so cute. Jim, 536 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: Oh come on, you know, And as she talked to 537 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: my voice, my voice is much lower. Liz would always 538 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: try to get it up. So I do these drills. 539 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: I did the Steve Peter's interview every morning. Um. I 540 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: did it kind of as a monologue to get me 541 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: into character. You know, we're life from l a. Like 542 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: the way she talked. I just loved her voice. And 543 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: I'll tell you when when it finished. It took me 544 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: a long time to stop speaking like her because I 545 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: just wanted to. I just wanted to talk. It's just 546 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: the cutest way of talking. And and also the like 547 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: the how she would do like her shoulders, and what 548 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: about her laugh? What about her laugh, Jessica, you two 549 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: are here to learn the way, Oh my god, her 550 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: laugh and her smile, there was so much that I 551 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: just studied, study studied. Like when she smiles, I smile 552 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: like with both my teeth, like I have a big smile. 553 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: She smiled, she only lifted her top lips, so it 554 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: was like like like you only saw these teeth here. 555 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: It took forever, like listening to her laugh and listening 556 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: to her voice and looking at myself in the mirror 557 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: and trying to figure out how to smile like her. 558 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: But I loved it. I mean listen. If I'm going 559 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: to spend seven years studying someone, I want them to 560 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: be like Tammy Faye, someone who makes me feel good 561 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: about like loving others and also makes me laugh. She 562 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: loved camp, so she loved to laugh, and so she 563 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: was ridiculous and and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Before we go, 564 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about You have been such 565 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: a champion for gender equality, and I wondered if you 566 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: think things have changed, because I know you are walking 567 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: the walk. You negotiated equal salaries for for fellow actors 568 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: like Octavia Spencer. Do you think things are changing in Hollywood? Jessica, 569 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: I definitely think things are changing, which is great. It 570 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,919 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they're like fixed, right change. Everything should 571 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: always be changing. Everything should always be in motion and 572 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: fluid and evolving and growing. And but I look at 573 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: the industry. This is what it's shocking to understand. I've 574 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 1: only been in the industry ten years, and the change 575 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: from when I started to what I see now is monumental. 576 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: I mean, many years ago, I said, Okay, I'm gonna 577 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: start working with a female filmmaker. Every year. It was 578 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 1: hard to find female filmmakers because women started in the industry, 579 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: but they were being like excluded and then they had 580 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: to go find other jobs to support themselves and support 581 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: their families. Now we like we are encouraging female filmmakers 582 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: and they're being given an opportunity. So that's a big change. 583 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: I can look at sun Dancing, Oscars, and can in 584 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: Venice San Sebastian. You look at all these these places. 585 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 1: Last year a female filmmaker won the Top Film Prize, 586 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: which I don't know ten years ago, a woman women 587 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: winning the Top Film Prize would have been a huge story. 588 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 1: The fact that all of like the major like festivals 589 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: and awards shows, a female filmmaker won the top prize 590 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: for her film is amazing and um, it's exciting to me. 591 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: So yes, things are changing. Also, uh, being on a 592 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: set and seeing more women in leadership positions in terms 593 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: of you know, as screenwriters, as producers, as directors, it 594 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: changes everything. It changes the idea of what a female 595 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: character is. It changes even love scenes like something you 596 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,919 Speaker 1: don't even think about so much. But I was doing 597 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: something the other day and our female producer said, well, 598 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 1: wouldn't like in this scene like for a woman and 599 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 1: it would be like this and like talking it through 600 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,239 Speaker 1: and you just think, Wow. In the past, that was 601 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: never even a part of the conversation. It was like 602 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: a bunch of men would be in a room and 603 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 1: dictate what the love seeing between the man and woman 604 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: should be, and no one would really even give a 605 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,240 Speaker 1: thought to that. A woman also has her own sexual 606 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: pleasure and desire, and um, what does that mean in 607 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: the scene. Um, so a lot has changed and that 608 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: makes me very happy. You know, as we see progress 609 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 1: being made in certain areas, we see things being unraveled 610 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,240 Speaker 1: in others. And I know you've been a vocal supporter 611 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: of planned parenthood, and yet now we're in a situation 612 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: where Roe v. Wade may very well be overturned by 613 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. And I'm curious if you are going 614 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: to get involved in that in speaking out, because I 615 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: know you've been such a fierce advocate for women. By 616 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: the way, if you don't want to address this, we 617 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm happy to talk about this. No, no no, no, 618 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: I'm very happy to talk about this. I support Planned Parenthood. 619 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,439 Speaker 1: I pay them, I give them a donation every month. 620 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 1: I you know, they provided me with birth control pills 621 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: when I was a teenager, and anyone who are argument 622 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,360 Speaker 1: is oh, you should just not have sex is living 623 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: like in the dark ages, because guess what women like sex? 624 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 1: Sorry to tell you women like sex. This is what 625 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 1: does men do. And women also would like to go 626 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,359 Speaker 1: to college and have a life in a career and 627 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: plan their families. Um. So planned parenthood absolutely gave me 628 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,359 Speaker 1: the tools to do that, um, you know, being able 629 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: to have birth control pills. So I'm an active supporter 630 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 1: of that. I also believe that the morning after pill 631 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,919 Speaker 1: should be an easy thing for women around the United 632 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: States to get. And I look at history and usually 633 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: in cycles, usually when something negative happens, we can live 634 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 1: in that energy, in that vacuum. You know, there were 635 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: a lot of women who were really disturbed when Donald 636 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: Trump became president. That also was the year we had 637 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: the Women's March. Then we had me too, Then we 638 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: had all of these incredible things happened for women. So sometimes, 639 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, a negative thing does not happen in a vacuum. 640 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 1: It creates a reaction. And what I believe a reaction 641 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: should be is that there should be over the counter, 642 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: um morning after pills for women to get anywhere. There 643 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: should also be over the counter medicine for women with 644 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: U T I s. There's women's health should needs to 645 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: be more readily accessible all over the place in this country, 646 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 1: and so I think that's something that needs a mass overhaul. 647 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: But what about the right to an abortion, if in 648 00:39:54,719 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: fact that is necessary to terminate a pregnancy. I believe 649 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: every woman has a right to her body, has a 650 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: right to have an abortion, and I will absolutely continue 651 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: UM funding and and donating into plant parenthood. Well, I 652 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: love talking to you, I love seeing you in so 653 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 1: many different roles and in so many different movies and 654 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: and streaming series and scenes from a marriage and everything 655 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: that you're doing. Um, So I'm just so happy for you. 656 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: And is there something that we can look forward to 657 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: featuring Jessica chas Sdain in the future. Well, I'm currently 658 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: doing UM George Jones Tammy went at mini series right 659 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,280 Speaker 1: now UM with Michael Shannon, of which I'm very happy about. 660 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: And then UM, I have a film I did with 661 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 1: Eddie Redmain called The Good Nurse, directed by Tobias lind Home, 662 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: which I'm very also very very excited about and that 663 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 1: I think they're locking picture on. So that'll be coming 664 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,080 Speaker 1: out hopefully this year. Well, you're a busy woman in 665 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: and we're better off because of it. Thanks Jessica. Great 666 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: to see you again and and we love you. Thank you. Katie. 667 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: I'm so happy too. I love you. I'm so happy 668 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: to talk to you. You can stream The Eyes of 669 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 1: Tammy Faye right now on HBO Max. Thank you all 670 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: so much for listening to our season debut. We've got 671 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 1: some really exciting episodes ahead. Big names, big ideas, big conversations, 672 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,800 Speaker 1: So make sure you subscribe if you haven't already, and 673 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,280 Speaker 1: if you haven't had enough of me in your ears, 674 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,280 Speaker 1: you can get more of me in your inbox every 675 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: morning does not sound exciting With my newsletter Wake Up Call, 676 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: go to Katie currek dot com to sign up. Next 677 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 1: Question with Katie Kurik is a production of My Heart 678 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: Media and Katie currk Media. The executive producers are Me, 679 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,720 Speaker 1: Katie Curic, and Courtney Litt. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. 680 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: Associate producers Derek Clements and Adriana Fasio. The show is 681 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,520 Speaker 1: edited and mixed by Derrek Clements. For more information about 682 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter 683 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: Wake Up Call, go to katie currect dot com. You 684 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: can also find me at Katie curric on Instagram and 685 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 1: all my social media channels. For more podcasts from I 686 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 687 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.