1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: An award winning photographer who had taken a picture of 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: a vulture stocking a young child that was starving in Africa, 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: and the picture spoke so much to people, and they 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: said what happened to the child? And he didn't know 5 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: because he had taken the picture and he had walked away. 6 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: And my husband said, I don't want to be the 7 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: one that walks away from something that I could have done. 8 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 9 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 10 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach in inner 11 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: City Memphis. And that last part it somehow led to 12 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: an oscar for the film about one of my teams. 13 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: That movie called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems are 14 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 2: never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy 15 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 2: people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever 16 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,639 Speaker 2: uses on CINN and Fox, but rather by an army 17 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 2: of normal folks. That's us, just you and me deciding hey, 18 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 2: maybe I can help. That's what Charlotte Dance, the voice 19 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: you just heard, has done. Charlotte is a longtime listener 20 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 2: who we discovered also has an amazing story of our 21 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: own at fifty. I'm fifty seven, so I can't even 22 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 2: imagine at fifty she adopted a child from an Indian reservation, 23 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 2: showing that it's never too late to serve and serve 24 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: in new ways. Her decision to radically love his birth 25 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: family will convict you about your own love. I cannot 26 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: wait for you to meet Charlotte right after these brief 27 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 2: messages from our general sponsorship, thanks for coming to Memphis 28 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: and visiting with us. 29 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm glad to be here. 30 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: Everybody, Charlotte Dance is a normal Army member. She's a 31 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: listener who's been emailing with us for years about episodes 32 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: that have impacted her. And you emailed me personally a 33 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 2: few times, and I feel like I know you a 34 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:37,839 Speaker 2: little from those emails. And we beg listeners to email us, 35 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 2: and you are living proof that if you do, we 36 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 2: will engage with you. And here you are in Memphis 37 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: because of it. Over time, we've learned about Charlotte's amazing story, 38 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 2: and we're going to start with this fifty years old 39 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: and a two year old child you'd never met being 40 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: placed in your lap. Why in the world did you 41 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: let that kid sit know out. 42 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: Well, my husband says, when God places one in your lap, 43 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: you don't rush them off. 44 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess so, well tell us about it. 45 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: Well, we had my husband and I had taken our 46 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: girls on a missions trip to Sissit in South Dakota. 47 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: There's a the Sioux Nation is actually a bunch of 48 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: small Indian tribes, smaller ones, and this is a Dakota 49 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: tribe and it's in South Dakota. And we were doing 50 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: PBS at a church there, vacation school, yes, and one 51 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: of the women that lived in Sissyiton brought her children 52 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: and her foster children, and she asked if the youngest 53 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: one could stay, and one of the other women said, yes, 54 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: he can stay. He was one mind you And I 55 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: looked at him and I thought, I'm doing the little kids. 56 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,839 Speaker 1: I'm just going to keep him with me because he's 57 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: so little and so he I don't know how much 58 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: you know about kids that have attachment disorder, but there's 59 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: like two kinds. There's a kind I don't want anybody, 60 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: and then there's a kind I love everybody. Well, he 61 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: was a kind I love everybody. And his name was Dell, 62 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: and we call him my Dell. 63 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: Laptop your husband. Yes, hereative, because that's cool. 64 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: He's very creative. He comes up with all kinds of things. 65 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: So I carried him around and I played with him, 66 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: and I had him on my lap and I taught 67 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: with him on my lap. And we'd been there for 68 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: a few days and I was talking to his foster 69 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: mom and she said, oh, he's available for adoption, but 70 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: nobody wants him. And I thought I'd take him just 71 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: like that, but I thought I have to talk to 72 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: my husband, and I didn't get a chance at night, 73 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: but I looked it up. And because he's Native, he's 74 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: covered by IQUA Indian Child Welfare Act. It's a good law. 75 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: It says in regular foster care, it says family first, 76 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: extended family, and then outside. Well, EQUA just adds two 77 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: more levels to it. It says family first, extended family, tribe, 78 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: any tribe, and then outside. 79 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 2: And so I thought, we've done a lot of adoption stories. 80 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 2: That's even more arduous. Really, Yeah, they're protecting the tribe. 81 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: So they're protecting the tribe. They're protecting the families because 82 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: so many were taken. And I think it's a I 83 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: think it's a good thing, and I thought, oh, there's 84 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 1: no way, and I didn't think my husband would be 85 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: really for it. So I just felt very strongly that 86 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: I ought to ask about it the next morning after 87 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: I'd looked at that, and so I did, and I 88 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: asked the pastor and he said they never place outside 89 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: the tribe, but he gave me the number for child protection, 90 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: and I thought, well, I'll call them. And I thought 91 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: my husband would say no, and then I wouldn't call them, 92 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 1: and then if I called them, then they would say no. 93 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 1: And then I just pray for this little boy. I 94 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: was teaching, I was carrying him around, and I was 95 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: working with the kids doing some kind of a craft 96 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: and there was a phone call and they said it's 97 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: for you, and I thought, nobody even knows I'm here. 98 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: And it was the foster mom and she said, do 99 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: you really want him? She said, the social worker would 100 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: like to talk to you. And so then I had 101 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: a chance to talk to my husband. He'd been doing 102 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: a lot of other things. They were doing a kind 103 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: of extreme home makeover, but he was there that morning 104 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: and he said, well, we'll go and see her on 105 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: the way out of town. 106 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: And did you take that to mean from him? 107 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: Well, I think he was going to find out, well, 108 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: you know what was going on, And we still had 109 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: no idea that it would happen. But that morning that 110 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: I was carrying him around and that I got the 111 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: phone call that was his second. 112 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 2: Birthday, that was the child's side, That was Tell's. 113 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:36,559 Speaker 1: Second birthday. Yeah. So I said that only God could 114 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: make a birthday as special to the adoptive family as 115 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: it was to the birth family. So we we went 116 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: and talked to her and she said, well, I have 117 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: some things to do. And I would call her every 118 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: once in a while and leave a message on her 119 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: voicemail because I never reached her and say I'm still interested, 120 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: is there anything I need to do? There were two 121 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: times I actually reached her and she had something for 122 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: me to do on those days. And then four months 123 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: later we went and picked him up with a tribal 124 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: court order and he was placed with us on a 125 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: tribal court order until we actually went through the interstate 126 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: transfer process and then the adoption. We adopted him in 127 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:23,119 Speaker 1: tribal court. 128 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 2: Charlotte, I'm fifty seven, so I'm going to go back 129 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 2: seven years to fifty where you were when the laptop 130 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: got stuck on you, my children would have been in 131 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 2: their late teens, early twenties. I don't think Lisa and 132 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: I would have ever been thinking about adoption. I know 133 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 2: we're not now, and I know we wouldn't have been 134 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 2: seven years ago before Dell was blopped in your lap. 135 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: Was adoption something that you guys were thinking about or 136 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 2: was this just oh well? 137 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: What happened is that my husband and I were older 138 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,719 Speaker 1: when we got married. So I was thirty four when 139 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: we got married, and the only adoption talk we had 140 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: was if we don't have kids right away, we will adopt, 141 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: we won't go through infertility, and we'd do it however, 142 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: and so that was the only adoption talk. Although there's 143 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 1: a lot of adoption in my family, so it's not 144 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: out of the realm of possibility. So I had high 145 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: you know, but at fifty yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, 146 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: our daughters though we're because we started later. Our daughters 147 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: were twelve and fourteen. 148 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, yeah, those are fun ages for girls. Uh 149 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 2: well a parent. 150 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, one of them especially was kind of fun. 151 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get to that. So I read in Alex's prep. 152 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 2: I think both pregnancies were not without challenges. 153 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: They were full of drama. 154 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,719 Speaker 2: And your husband thought. 155 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: You want to hear what he said? 156 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that was funny. Tell us about your 157 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 2: two daughters. 158 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: Okay, so Caroline was born and I ended up having 159 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: a well after two days of being induced, they said 160 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: two days. Two days, wow, two days. I was ready. 161 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: They said push. I pushed once. They said we're doing 162 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: a c section, and the cord was wrapped around her 163 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: neck three times, around her body once, and when they pulled, 164 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: when they pulled her out, I tore and I lost 165 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: half my blood. And so that was a little that 166 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: was really scary for him. For him, well, I was 167 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: just like there. I mean I was awake, I knew 168 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: when things happened. I knew what was going on. But 169 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: it was scarier for him. But our daughter was a 170 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: very healthy get this full term four pounds, fourteen ounce girl, wow, 171 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: full term. So he was a little cautious when it 172 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: came to the second one. And the second one when 173 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: she was born, she came fast. No, two days being induced. 174 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: I mean they were telling me, don't push, don't push 175 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: with that one. But the cord was wrapped around her 176 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: neck twice. And after she got out, she started seizing 177 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: and she had one seizure after another, and they finally 178 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: they got her medicated, but she had breakthrough seizures, so 179 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: they sent her up to the neonatal ICU in Portland, 180 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: and we spent her first weeks in the ic YOU 181 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: in Portland. So after that, he said, the first one, 182 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: my wife almost dies, the second one, the baby almost dies. 183 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: So next time it would be my turn. We're done, 184 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: We're not having anymore. 185 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: That was it, Yeah, And then here it is, twelve 186 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: fourteen years later, Dell shows up. 187 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: Dell shows up. 188 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 2: When you thought about the prospect of adopting Dell, was 189 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 2: there a moment that it really sunk in that this 190 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 2: wasn't a theory anymore, that you were actually at fifty 191 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 2: with two small with two teenage girls, going to do 192 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 2: this and this is something you're actually going to live now. 193 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 2: Did you ever think someone else should do this? Anything 194 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 2: about saying yes scary? 195 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you think of some of those things. I guess, 196 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: I guess. I always felt that if it wasn't going 197 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: to be the right one, that there would be somebody 198 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: else stand up for it. You know, that there would 199 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: be somebody else. And you know, my second daughter was 200 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: not very pleased about the whole thing, and she said, 201 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 1: I don't want him there, and and at that point 202 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 1: in time, we didn't know if it was going to 203 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: work out, and I said, well, you can pray for 204 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: him to get a different family, just just a family 205 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: that he loves, because I was told by the pastor 206 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: that so many times this is what happens. They stay 207 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: in foster care until they're teenagers, when they're not that 208 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: easy anyway, and then they go to the boarding school. 209 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: And I thought, I don't want that. I want him 210 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: to have I want him to have a place that 211 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: loves him. And I will say his birth family loves 212 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: him with what they have to give, they love him. 213 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our general spot answers. 214 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 2: But first, I hope you'll follow us on your favorite 215 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: social media channels, where we share more powerful content, including 216 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 2: reels from our video studio and testimonials from Army members. 217 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 2: We're at Army of normal folks on every channel. Give 218 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 2: us a follow up, we'll be right back. I found 219 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: it interesting Alex told me in the prop about this 220 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 2: that when you were considering the adoption of Dell, Sherman 221 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: thought of an award winning picture. And I think it's interesting. 222 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: So we had heard this story of an award winning 223 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: photographer who would take an a picture of a vulture 224 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: stalking a young child that was starving in Africa. 225 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: That in and of itself, just consider what you just said. 226 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 2: I mean, it's horrifying. 227 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: It's horrifying. And the picture spoke so much to people, 228 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: and they said, what happened to the child? And he 229 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: didn't know because he had taken the picture and he 230 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: had walked away. And and my husband said, I don't 231 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: want to be the one that walks away from something 232 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: that I could have done. And so we just took 233 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: it one step at a time. We didn't know really 234 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: totally what we were getting in for, but we just 235 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: said yes to the the each little step is what 236 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: we did. We didn't know. 237 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 2: Clearly, Charlotte, you married a like minded human being. 238 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: I married the best. Believe me, I married way up. 239 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 2: Because I'd never heard that story and when I read it, 240 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 2: I got chills. I mean, what happened It almost reeks 241 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 2: of today's social media stuff where you see somebody getting 242 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 2: beat up and some jerks filming it but never steps 243 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: into helps the old person getting beat up or something. 244 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 2: But it's the same thing that this award winning photographer 245 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 2: took a picture of a vulture starking a starving child, 246 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: but has no idea what happened to the child after, 247 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 2: because he was more interested than the picture than the 248 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: human job. And your husband said, I don't want to 249 00:16:52,640 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 2: be that guy. Yeah, phenomenal, the kindness and the selflessness. 250 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: And that. 251 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 2: Oozes through your words, and I think there's a reason, 252 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 2: or maybe there's a foundation is a better way to 253 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 2: say it. So we'll come back to Dell. Okay, everybody 254 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 2: knows Dell exists now, and everybody knows how Dell came 255 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 2: into your life, and we'll come back to it. But 256 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 2: to understand why you said yes, I kind of feel 257 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 2: like we have to go way back to strangers in 258 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: your grandparents' house than your parents' house. And it seems 259 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 2: like almost everybody else relatives of your homes, which I 260 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 2: think is yourmane to candidly a family that never closed 261 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 2: its doors, and it almost seems like that just transitioned 262 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 2: to you to almost a difinity in Dell being plopped 263 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 2: at your lap at fifty. So tell us about kind 264 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 2: of how your world view toward and open doors formed. 265 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: Well, my grandparents were pastors at a little tiny church 266 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: in western Nebraska. 267 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 2: And isn't every church in western Nebraska a little untire, Yes, yes. 268 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: I mean it's little tiny And it was a little 269 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: country friends church. And it was after World War two, 270 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: and my mom was in college, I think, and or 271 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: she was college age, and her younger brother was at home. 272 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: And my grandmother had a friend who worked with the 273 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: refugees in Germany. 274 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 2: German refugee children from World War two. 275 00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: Refugee children from World War two. Assumed that many of 276 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: them came from other countries, and they were refugees into Germany. 277 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 2: Like Poland and Czechoslovakia and all the countries that Nazi 278 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 2: Germany invaded. 279 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: Yes, because the Germans came and pushed into them, and 280 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: then when the Russians were pushing them back, Germans wanted 281 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: workers and they didn't want to stay under Russian domination. 282 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: And so her friend worked there and she said, well, maybe, 283 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: because my uncle was significantly younger than the others in 284 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: his family, well maybe they could take an orphan boy. 285 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: And I mean he would have been a teenager. And 286 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: her friend said, well, I have these two brothers that 287 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 1: I think would be perfect. And those two brothers are 288 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: my uncles. And they came from Latvia. They walked out 289 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: to have Latvia with their mother. Their father had already died. 290 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: Their brother had to stay he was too little. And 291 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: they came there and they said, my uncle said, when 292 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: I first saw it, he said it was desolate. He 293 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: was used to green and lush Latvia and it was 294 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: it's not green and lush out there. And they came 295 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: and they taught themselves English in the refugee camp by 296 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: reading American cowboy magazines. 297 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 2: So, but the thing is, your grandparents said we'll take one, 298 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 2: but ended up saying we're not going to split the 299 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 2: brothers up, will take two. 300 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: We'll take two. Yeah. 301 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And these are both your uncles today and my 302 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,479 Speaker 2: uncles today. That's unbelievable. And they were howled when they 303 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 2: got to the States. 304 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: They were teens. I'm thinking maybe twelve and fourteen, or 305 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: or maybe a little bit older than that, but teenagers. 306 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 2: So how did life progress for everybody? 307 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: Well, my uncles are rather brilliant, are they They are 308 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: rather They both have their PhDs from JOHNS. Hopkins in physics. 309 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 2: Kitting me. 310 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. 311 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,479 Speaker 2: That is fantastic. Yeah. 312 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: My other uncle is biological uncle was rather bright too. 313 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: The three of them had wonderful times together. My mother said, 314 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: you would walk into a room and you never knew 315 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: where the light was going to be hanging from because 316 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: they they would move it all over, so it would 317 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: be hanging in a corner, you know, by just wires, 318 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: and it was just crazy. So then your parents, Yeah, 319 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: they were always really open to people. I remember one 320 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: time when I was a teenager, some people let me see. 321 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 1: It was a grandmother, mother and daughter. They had car 322 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: trouble and they had gotten stuck in town, and my 323 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,479 Speaker 1: dad said, well, they're going to need a place to stay, 324 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: and my mother says, well, you go check them out, 325 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: and if you think they're if you think they'd be 326 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: okay around the family, then you can bring them here. 327 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: And they stayed with us for several days while they 328 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: were waiting for their car to be fixed. 329 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 2: Just the way it was. 330 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean you have to understand, we lived 331 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 1: in a little tiny town. It was like, you know, 332 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: six hundred people, so there's not a huge number of 333 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: places to stay. But yeah, and then after that, they 334 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: had I don't know, for my mom's funeral. My dad 335 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: was telling me, I think it was over fifty people 336 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: that stayed multiple weeks with them. 337 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 2: Fifty over fifty Why you were in the home. 338 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: No, that was mostly after When we lived there, we 339 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: had people stay with us, like for a day or two. 340 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: But well, when I was in college, they had they 341 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: had kids stay with them all summer college kids that 342 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: needed a place while they were working there. 343 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 2: Well, then this isn't really a one off. This is 344 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 2: kind of an operating system of your family. 345 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would say so. 346 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 2: Well, then, no wonder when Dell plopped down in your 347 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: lap you were glued. I mean, it was baked into you. 348 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 2: It's just like, yeah, I mean, hospitality and an open 349 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 2: door and love of just people just seems like kind 350 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 2: of the way you guys roll. 351 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much. I mean I don't I don't think 352 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: I do as much as my parents are my brother, 353 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: but yeah, pretty much. 354 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: I mean with that many people and just a revolving 355 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,639 Speaker 2: door of candid and revolving to our generosity and kindness, 356 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 2: it only imagines a teenager maybe sometimes thinking gosh, I 357 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 2: just wish I had a house without all these people. 358 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: Well, now most of those came after the four of us, say, 359 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: there are four of us kids right, So the house 360 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: was pretty full, and we're like your family. I mean, 361 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: I'm the oldest. The youngest is four years younger than 362 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 1: I am. My mom said, by the time she got 363 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: us ready to go someplace, she didn't want to go. 364 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 2: That's how Lisa would get our kids beautiful for church 365 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 2: and school. But by the time all four of them 366 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 2: were dressed in pigtails and good everything else, she was exhausted, 367 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 2: just wanted us to leave and go to sleep. Yeah, well, 368 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 2: I mean, but then add on top of all of that. 369 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: So this most of them were after the four of 370 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: us were out of the house. 371 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 2: Got it. But you did say strangers were sleeping in 372 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 2: your bed? Right? You come home and there'd be somebody. 373 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm like, I never knew where I was 374 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: going to sleep when I came home on a visit. 375 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, I might be on the couch, I might 376 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: be in one bedroom, I might be in another one. 377 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: Who knew it was never my I mean, it wasn't 378 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: necessarily my bedroom that I had grown up. 379 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 2: In, and but that was okay with you. 380 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: It's how they are. 381 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: I don't know how you didn't get jealous sometimes. 382 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: Oh well, I mean, so many of these these some 383 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: of these kids that stayed with them. I mean, my 384 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 1: parents were they A lot of them were foreign students 385 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: and my parents were their American family, and they just 386 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: adopted me right along with their parents. They were great people, 387 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: and some of them I still have contact with, you know, 388 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: because they loved my parents. 389 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 2: I guess it's really enriching, isn't it is? 390 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: It is. 391 00:25:53,200 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. We're going to get to Dell again. 392 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 2: But it's interesting with that background and understanding Dell at two, 393 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 2: which we'll get to Dell later, because Dell's now I 394 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 2: think eighteen, right, he's eighteen. Yeah. What I think is 395 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 2: fascinating is with this background and with Dell, you've also 396 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 2: almost adopted. Dale's not Dell's natural family, and they've kind 397 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 2: of adopted you. 398 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: To Oh they have. 399 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 2: They have tell us about that. 400 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 1: Well, I didn't know anybody but his birth mom to 401 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: start with. They said that social worker when we picked 402 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: up Dell, she said it has it's going to be 403 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: an open adoption. I'm like, okay, And we went up 404 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: to visit Jenna, her name Miss Jenna. She she called 405 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: and she wanted to see Dell, and we went up 406 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: to visit her and well, I told you, I'm from 407 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: this little tiny town and she lives in Minneapolis St. Paul. 408 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: So I mean, it's it's outside of my comfort zone 409 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: already to go into a big city. I mean, I 410 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, to some extent, it's outside. I've been there, 411 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: but you know, it was a new, new place, new things. 412 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know her, but we we took him up there. 413 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: And initially i'd been I can't imagine, you know, And 414 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: I had these feelings toward her. But when I saw 415 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: her and saw he wouldn't have anything to do with her. 416 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: He hadn't seen her friends. Yeah, he's too and he 417 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: hadn't seen her for a year, and he wouldn't have 418 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: anything to do with her. And I saw the hurt, 419 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: and I saw she had a baby to it and 420 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: her and I thought, I thought, you know, And the 421 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 1: more I found out about the family, you know, I 422 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: met relatives, and I met and when when we were 423 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: in Siciton and I met well, yeah, that's a different story. 424 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: I found out a lot more. But it's like generations 425 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: of of hurt and harm and trauma and trauma and trauma. 426 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: And and I love her, she loves I do she 427 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: loves Dell. She can't really set aside those things to 428 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: be a good parent to him, but she loves him. 429 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: And like when her grandmother was in the hospital, she 430 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: was going to have her further amputated, she had a 431 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: bad infection, and we were asked to come up, you know, 432 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: like family. It was family in the room and us. 433 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: And when later on she died, I don't know, a 434 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: year or two later, we were invited to the wake 435 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: and the funeral out and we went. We took him 436 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: to the wake. The funeral would have been too far 437 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: into his school week, but we went out there, and 438 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: you know, it was a little uncomfortable because it wasn't Sissitant, 439 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: it was it was Crow Creek Reservation, so I didn't 440 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: know anybody there except for his birth mom. But I 441 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: was willing to be a little uncomfortable to give him 442 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: that that chance to be with family and to be 443 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: part of who they are. And I've always appreciated that 444 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: she has done that for us. 445 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 2: I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, and candidly, 446 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 2: I'm not as good a person issue because if I 447 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 2: took in a two year old foster child who clearly 448 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 2: had attachment issues and clinged to me because I was 449 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 2: a steady, consistent love that he really needed, that every 450 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 2: two year old needs. And then there's this birth mother 451 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 2: who had I assume substance issues or whatever, who gave 452 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 2: him up. I just don't know that I could. I 453 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 2: would almost be defensive on behalf of Dell for him 454 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: against her, and I would have held some animosity there. 455 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: That was me before I met her, okay, before I 456 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: knew her. But she went and she voluntarily signed TPR 457 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: termination of parental rights so that we could have him 458 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: in the few months after we met her that time. 459 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: So she did it so that he could be with us, 460 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: that she wouldn't know where he was, she would know 461 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: that he was okay. She didn't have to do that. 462 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 2: She could have fought it, so it was selfless on her. 463 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: It was selfless. She told me that was the hardest 464 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: thing I ever did. And I decided that. I mean, 465 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: I didn't have a cell phone at the time, and 466 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: she changed her number all the time. I don't know 467 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: for what reasons, but I decided, I answered, because. 468 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 2: People who don't have their stuff together don't play their bill. 469 00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 2: That's why. 470 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: Oh, I decided I would answer any phone call from 471 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: that area code, and that if it was her, I 472 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: was going to say, I've been thinking about you. I'm 473 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: so glad you called. Guess what Della is doing. And 474 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: I wasn't going to say, it's been so long since 475 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: you called or we met. You know, I wasn't ever 476 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: going to make it about you. 477 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 2: Could have teed up a shame party. 478 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: I should have, but I wasn't going to do that, 479 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: and I'm so glad I didn't. I'm so glad I 480 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: made it about mom bragging to her. I didn't. I mean, 481 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: we have plenty of issues and he is not he 482 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: is not and was not an easy child. 483 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 2: Okay. 484 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: I did not do any blaming on that because I 485 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: think he's he is just he's he's one of a kind. 486 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: It is what he is. But I didn't do that. 487 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: And and so when I don't know when time came 488 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: that we did have time with her. It was good. 489 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: And and you know, lately she's been in the hospital 490 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: and Dell has gone up to spend time with her 491 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,479 Speaker 1: because he knows that she needs that. She's kind of 492 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: like him. She likes to have people around her all 493 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: the time, and he does too. And it's been it's 494 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: been a blessing that they have that relationship, so that 495 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: she has somebody that she hasn't caused problems for. You know, 496 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: she gets she'll get angry at somebody and she'll do 497 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: something and then they're like they step back and then 498 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: they're not going to be there. But because he has 499 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: not really experienced that, he hasn't experienced the hurt that 500 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: comes from that, he could be there for her when 501 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: she's when she's I mean it's been a she's been 502 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 1: in since Thanksgiving week. I mean it's bad infection, and 503 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: so he's been able to spend time with her and 504 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: it's been a good thing. 505 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: The brokenness seems to be generational. 506 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Her father, the way I met him was 507 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: he wanted a picture of Dell. He was in prison, 508 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: she was in the other prison. We actually went visited 509 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: her in prison, and when. 510 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 2: She was both those biological mother and grandfather were simultaneously 511 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 2: locked up. 512 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, lovely ah yes, and Dell wanted to go 513 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: visit her in prison, and this was again outside of 514 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: my comfort zone. Oh my, it was the best visits 515 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: we ever had because she didn't have anything else to 516 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,760 Speaker 1: concentrate on but him, and she did such a good 517 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: job of making the visit about him. I was so 518 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: glad we went. But it was out of my comfort zone. 519 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: But I would she would call and talk, and she 520 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 1: would I would write her letters and I would send 521 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: her pictures of Dell. And her dad wanted a picture, 522 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: and so his grandfather biological, biological, And she said, you know, Dad, 523 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: I can't send you any pictures from you can't send 524 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: pictures from one prison to another. She said, you're going 525 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: to have to write, and you're going to have to 526 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,280 Speaker 1: write Charlotte. So he did and he sent. He wrote 527 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: Dell's birthday, and he had a friend of his jaw 528 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: this beautiful card. It's like a native headdress that morphs 529 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: into an eagle. It's just it's just an incredible card. 530 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: And he wanted a picture. So I started writing him 531 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: and I gave him Grandpa brags stories. Now you have 532 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: to keep in mind he's younger than I am. 533 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 2: Wow, Dell's grandfather is younger than you. 534 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, ten years, ten years yes, wow, unbelievable. Yeah. 535 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 2: And that concludes part one of our conversation with Charlotte Dance, 536 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 2: and please don't miss part two. It's now available to 537 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 2: listen to you. Together, guys, we can change this country, 538 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 2: but it starts with you. I'll see in Part two.