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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Stephane never told your production.

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Speaker 1: I heart radio, So Savantha, I know we've discussed, like

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Speaker 1: if we did a kind of watch through podcast or

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Speaker 1: reaction podcast. Sex in the City is the idea that

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Speaker 1: we floated, Yes, because I think it is chock full

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Speaker 1: of so many current events that are no longer relevant

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Speaker 1: and trying to be edgy at that point in time,

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Speaker 1: and what we thought was a revelation when it came

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Speaker 1: to women's sexuality and he's looking back on and being like,

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Speaker 1: oh God, that's that was bad. That was real bad

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Speaker 1: versus also just like trying to understand what we thought

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Speaker 1: sex was. And I feel like Sex in the City

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Speaker 1: actually pushed the narrative of trying to figure that out

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Speaker 1: for ourselves as well us even though it wasn't real life.

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Speaker 1: The whole idea of commodity and having women actually like

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Speaker 1: women was kind of new, and having single women being

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Speaker 1: single for so long, even if one of the aspects

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Speaker 1: of it was they were trying so hard to find someone,

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Speaker 1: it still was kind of like a of fresh like

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Speaker 1: perspective instead of just being married family sitcom, watch the

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Speaker 1: dad do something dumb in the story. So Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it's just a really good idea because you have

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Speaker 1: so many dynamics to that, with each character fulfilling some

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Speaker 1: type of you know, as we had the writer tells,

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Speaker 1: you know, it kind of fulfills every part of you,

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Speaker 1: like they have different personality of parts. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about this. I think it's wonderful idea. I'm

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Speaker 1: on board. I'm on board. I think we should do

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Speaker 1: it too. I have refrained from watching it in case

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Speaker 1: we do this because I want to be fresh. I

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Speaker 1: want to I think it's a good that you'll you

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Speaker 1: have the experience and outcome from completely never have seen it.

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Speaker 1: And also like not prude is definitely not the right word,

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Speaker 1: but I do get like nice naive, I get a clustered. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't consume a lot of like content about romance

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Speaker 1: or sex or anything like that, so uh, people do

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Speaker 1: usually get a chuckle out of how flustered. Like, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think it'd be hilarious yes for that, but also

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Speaker 1: just again the unrealistic things. It almost become comical because

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Speaker 1: you're like, that's not how that works. You just kind

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Speaker 1: of sit there and looking like who thought this was

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Speaker 1: a good idea? And of course within that you have

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Speaker 1: the several unrealistic expectations of relationships in general, and of

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Speaker 1: course how rich these women are, like who lives in

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Speaker 1: this world? Were not us. But I think it's really

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Speaker 1: funny because it is it's kind of also being able

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Speaker 1: to have that comic relief. But I also have been

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Speaker 1: feeding you the tidbits to be like, oh, you talked

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Speaker 1: about this, let me tell you how it relates this

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Speaker 1: experts which is awesome. Really, how does sex in the

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Speaker 1: City relate to X y Z random thing I just said,

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Speaker 1: give me a minute, it's amazing. I can't think of

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Speaker 1: what I would do. I'll watch like reaction thing of

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to get Lauren over on the other podcast.

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Speaker 1: I do savor to do one of the Star Wars

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Speaker 1: holiday special with me because I think it would be hilarious.

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Speaker 1: I'll have to think on that. But I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you this because yes, it is Pride Month as

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Speaker 1: we're recording this, and we wanted to bring back our

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Speaker 1: two partner on bisexuality that we did with these amazing

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Speaker 1: guests that we're just the most wonderful and talented people

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Speaker 1: that we could have talked to you about this and

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Speaker 1: often when guests come on, we want to be their

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Speaker 1: friends after and we understand that people are busy and

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Speaker 1: maybe don't want podcasters podcast friends latching onto them. But

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Speaker 1: Tedia on these episodes, she talked about her Buffy Reaction

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Speaker 1: Buffy the Van Personal Reaction podcast, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is I want to be for him? So yes, phenomenal.

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Speaker 1: She's actually right now doing some really great bay coups

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Speaker 1: as she calls them. So if you're not following her

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Speaker 1: on Twitter, you really should because it's quite phenomenal and

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Speaker 1: and so yes, I love that, so so so so much.

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Speaker 1: Um So, please enjoy part two of this classic episode

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Speaker 1: on bisexuality. Hey this Danny cancel At and welcome to

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Speaker 1: stuff I've never told your protection of I hire adios,

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Speaker 1: how stuff warts. Today we are bringing to you are

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Speaker 1: part two for episode on bisexuality and for the trigger

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Speaker 1: warning of the episode, um sexual assault, soicidality, mental health issues,

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Speaker 1: and domestic violence. Also, we strongly encourage you to listen

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Speaker 1: to part one before listening to this one because part

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Speaker 1: one gives a lot of baseline definitions and introduction to

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Speaker 1: our interviewees. Yes, they they introduced themselves far better and

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Speaker 1: in that episode. UM Yeah, just a lot of terms

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Speaker 1: will be using. We're explained in that episode. UM. And

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Speaker 1: we also went into the negative impact of birature and

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Speaker 1: by negativity and that and before we get into um

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Speaker 1: all of our our guests interviews, we did want to

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Speaker 1: touch on the media for a second. When it comes

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Speaker 1: to bisexuality. There are several famous examples of celebrities, um

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Speaker 1: who are bisexual, Angelina Jolie and A Paquin, Kara de

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Speaker 1: Levine and Cumming, Abby Jacobson, Aus Walker and kind of

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Speaker 1: Billy Joe Arstrong, Billy Joe Arstrong, My my boy, My

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Speaker 1: Homeboy had a huge correct son for years. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: Evan Rachel Wood, Drew Barrymore, Gina Rodriguez, Lady Gaga Rex

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Speaker 1: and Gay Tessa Thompson, lots more. There are some famous

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Speaker 1: fictional examples, and right now the big one is Rosa

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Speaker 1: Diaz on Brooklyn nine nine, Callie Torres on Gray's Anatomy.

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Speaker 1: There's Cat on Madame Secretary, Petro Solano on Jane the Virgin,

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Speaker 1: David Rose on Ship's Creek, Grace Troy on Black Lightning,

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Speaker 1: Nova Board A Lawn on Queen Sugar, Darryl White Feather

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Speaker 1: on Crazy ex girlfriend who announced his bisexuality via song

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Speaker 1: or yes of course, Um, Sarah Lance and Constantine on

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Speaker 1: Legends of Tomorrow, Nami and dave On on Grown Ish.

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Speaker 1: I will say I haven't seen all of these. I

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Speaker 1: cannot say I was gonna say, I think I've seen

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Speaker 1: like two or three of all of these. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: cannot say they're good representations UM. And I know that

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Speaker 1: Constantine in particular, I can't say for sure if it's

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Speaker 1: ever been like said definitively UM. But those are examples

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Speaker 1: I found people gave online. UM. One thing worth noting

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Speaker 1: is there's far less men than women. Um, you could

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Speaker 1: just help out the list. Yes, yes, And that is

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Speaker 1: something that UM was commented on a lot when I

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Speaker 1: was looking into this, looking into news outlets, the mainstream

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Speaker 1: ones rarely right about bisexuality. For instance, in the New

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Speaker 1: York Times tweeted bisexual seven times and gay over one hundred.

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Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal has tweeted it twice and does

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Speaker 1: not appear to have any stories with by our bisexual

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Speaker 1: in the headline. And I got to thinking about some tropes,

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Speaker 1: some stereotypes I've seen in our media, because for a

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Speaker 1: long time bisexuality has kind of been a punchline in

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Speaker 1: our entertainment. Um Carrie Bradshaw's sex in the City line

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Speaker 1: that it's just a layover on the way to gaytown.

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Speaker 1: For instance, are Liz Lemon on Dirty Rock when she

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Speaker 1: quips that it was just something invented in the nineties

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Speaker 1: to sell hair products, or the l words assess meant

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Speaker 1: that it is quote just gross um or bisexual character

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Speaker 1: as crazy ind quotes are evil, like Frank Underwood on

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Speaker 1: House of Cards, Lady Godga's character Elizabeth on American Horror Story,

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Speaker 1: big examples of that, and this lack of good representation

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Speaker 1: has consequences that shapes how we see bisexual people and

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Speaker 1: how bisexual people see themselves. We spoke to our panel

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Speaker 1: of experts Dr Tangela Roberts, Dr Tanya Israel, Diane Adams,

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Speaker 1: and Harn Greensmith, all of whom were read are red

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Speaker 1: and activists in the bisexual community. Here's Tangela and Tanya.

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Speaker 1: I think that um, maybe like the media just can't

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Speaker 1: get it right because there's there's a lot of like

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Speaker 1: mystery what is the bisexual and a lot of just

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Speaker 1: what people talk about. Is this media representation of you know,

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Speaker 1: either the fifth woman who the un the corn and

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Speaker 1: she gets invited to like have a threesome with a couple,

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Speaker 1: or no, that's about it. Yeah yeah, I was going

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Speaker 1: to say the evil bisexual, right, yeah, yeah, there's always

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Speaker 1: the evil bisexual who's like, you know, running rampant and

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Speaker 1: queer communities and like breaking lesbians hearts. Or but then

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Speaker 1: at the same time, you have like the media image

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Speaker 1: of like the lesbian who wants to like quote unquote

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Speaker 1: term straight women. I'm like, well, it couldn't be that

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Speaker 1: those straight women are actually buy any that ma. But

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk a little bit about internalized stigma, because

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Speaker 1: what happens for people is that there's all these negative

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Speaker 1: messages out there about uh, sexual orientation. I mean there's

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Speaker 1: negative messages out there about all kinds of things. So

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Speaker 1: you know, if if you're not a sexual minority person,

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Speaker 1: you can think about things that you've heard, like let's

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Speaker 1: say you're um an ethnic minority person, you can think

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Speaker 1: of things that you've heard a out your ethnic groups. UM,

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Speaker 1: if you're a person with a disability, you can think about,

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Speaker 1: like what did you hear about people with disabilities? And

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Speaker 1: and the problem with all of those messages being out

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Speaker 1: there in the world is if they get transmitted through

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Speaker 1: so many different ways, through media representations and through what

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Speaker 1: you learn in school, and what you hear from your

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Speaker 1: faith leaders, and what your parents tell you or what

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Speaker 1: your parents are silent about and avoid telling you, and

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Speaker 1: what your peers say, or what your fears ease you

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Speaker 1: about or bully other people about. Like, these messages get

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Speaker 1: communicated in so many different ways, and the problem is,

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Speaker 1: then we can start to believe those things about ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Like even if on some level we're like, well, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that's true, there may be some level, either

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Speaker 1: conscious or unconscious, that we start to believe those things.

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Speaker 1: So when we internalize those negative messages from outside, it

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Speaker 1: can really eat away at our help UM. And we

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Speaker 1: can see that, like we know that UM internalized stigma

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Speaker 1: for bisexual people is associated with UM negative mental health outcomes,

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Speaker 1: and so we can see that the the more people

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Speaker 1: believe those things, those negative things about the group that

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Speaker 1: they belong to UM, then then they're going to UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, have more struggles with their mental health. The

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Speaker 1: good news is, actually this is really exciting. I have

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Speaker 1: to tell you this that my research team created this

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Speaker 1: online intervention. So these online activities that interactive activities thinks

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Speaker 1: about half an hour to do them, and they can

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Speaker 1: actually decrease internalized stigma. So or if you you know,

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Speaker 1: if you compare people who do these activities people who

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Speaker 1: get other kinds of activities, like they've got lower internalized

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Speaker 1: stigma in half an hour, And I'm like, wow, this

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Speaker 1: is super excited because, um you know, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: a small difference that it makes, but it's encouraging to

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Speaker 1: think that there are things that we can do that

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Speaker 1: can actually change that for people. Um uh. And we

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Speaker 1: can help people like to support their resilience in the

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Speaker 1: face of all of these negative messages that they get

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Speaker 1: exposed to. So I'm really excited about that. So we

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Speaker 1: have some more for you listeners, but first we have

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Speaker 1: a quick break from a word from our sponsor, and

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Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you sponsor. One thing what we are

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Speaker 1: curious about was the personal experiences of our interviewees. Then

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Speaker 1: they were gracious enough to oblige. I learned amazing and

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Speaker 1: gradifool about Nisa, one of my Grasstol colleagues, so that

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Speaker 1: at some point in in certain field, probably not so

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Speaker 1: much just like chemistry and because they because there's like

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Speaker 1: so much amazing things that you can do. But more

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Speaker 1: so with like the social sciences, you tend to do

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Speaker 1: a lot of research. You're like, I'm doing research all

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Speaker 1: myself because this is experience that I have and I

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Speaker 1: want to feel other people have it UM. And that's

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Speaker 1: sort of with my introduction into UM doing by research

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Speaker 1: and it expanded a little bit. But some of my

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Speaker 1: personal experiences, Oh my gosh, oh my god. I've stated

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Speaker 1: queer women who have said that they were afraid I

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Speaker 1: was going to leave them for as this man UM,

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Speaker 1: which usually like to me saying that it really doesn't

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Speaker 1: matter who I leave you for, because it's cost you.

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Speaker 1: We asked about their coming out stories. Oh yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's feel like so stereotypical. It was when I was

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Speaker 1: in college. It I like, I almost like just hate

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Speaker 1: saying it because like everyone's like, oh you, everyone explores

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Speaker 1: her sexual orientation in college, sure, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: do something different, but no, it was when I was

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Speaker 1: in college. I was at a at a private Catholic

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Speaker 1: school with like single single sex storm and I fell

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Speaker 1: in love with my roommate at the time, and that

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Speaker 1: sort of put me in like a just mental tales.

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Speaker 1: Then I was like, wait, what is this? Like I

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Speaker 1: like her, but I like her more than a friend.

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Speaker 1: I like her like I want to always be around her.

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Speaker 1: I like her like I have like boyfriends in the past. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this was interesting, And I remember, I think, like my

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Speaker 1: confusion then wasn't wasn't really like, oh, I'm confused about

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Speaker 1: this orientation. It was like, oh, but wait, I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't think leslian fits for me, don't

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Speaker 1: think lesbian is ever fit for me. And I actually

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Speaker 1: remember like running out of the dorm room into like

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Speaker 1: the quad area, and I was like, yeah, I know

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Speaker 1: that that that guy that I saw that works in

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Speaker 1: the library. He's so hot, got it? Maybe I'm by

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Speaker 1: And that's sort of what I'm just gonna have to

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Speaker 1: stick with because yeah, I just sort of like what

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Speaker 1: I like and it comes in different packages and okay,

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Speaker 1: sure that's fine. Um, So it wasn't really like like

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Speaker 1: that tremental I guess for me. But I mean I

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Speaker 1: did have some pretty negative experiences with some family members,

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Speaker 1: and that's it's always a process coming up the family,

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Speaker 1: like they have to sort of go through their shock

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Speaker 1: and grief and um hopefully eventually acceptain. But that's always

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Speaker 1: that process. But I've been lucky enough to um have

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Speaker 1: really really great friends honestly, like I have the best

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Speaker 1: group of people that I can call like my assumed

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Speaker 1: family in the world. UM. And at a time, I

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Speaker 1: was in college, and so I was lucky enough to

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Speaker 1: sort of use my growing research interests as a way

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Speaker 1: to explore more about sexual orientation. So I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I think i'm by let me write, let me like

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Speaker 1: do some research about this and see if I can

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Speaker 1: like do a presentation on bisexuality and what if my classes?

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Speaker 1: Can I get away with that? Sure? Why not? It's college. Well,

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Speaker 1: the first thing I would say is, I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I was bisexual when I was growing up,

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Speaker 1: like when I was in high school and college. Like

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Speaker 1: I don't think that I came out when I was

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Speaker 1: twenty five. I think I actually like became bisexual in

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Speaker 1: a way. Um And and so I just want to

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Speaker 1: sort of acknowledge that there can be fluidity in that also.

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Speaker 1: But I'm also going to say this super clearly, the

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Speaker 1: fact that people's sexual orientation can see doesn't mean you

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Speaker 1: can change it. You know, doesn't mean that you can

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Speaker 1: like have a treatment or something that's going to change

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Speaker 1: your sexual orientation. So there's a difference between like understanding

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Speaker 1: fluidity and and trying to change sexual orientation. I know

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Speaker 1: y'all know that, but I'm so bad, very yeah, so

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Speaker 1: so so. So the first thing that changed was just

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Speaker 1: sort of coming into my understanding of myself as bisexual,

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Speaker 1: and um, for me, it started out a more cognitive

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Speaker 1: process I think that it does for other people. Like

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I don't think I'm a I

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Speaker 1: don't think I'm a zero on the Kinsey scale. I'm

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Speaker 1: probably more like a one or two. So so then

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Speaker 1: does it make sense for me to identify as heterosexual?

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Speaker 1: And then I went, okay, what do identify it? So

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Speaker 1: it tells me a lot to kind of get to bisexual.

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Speaker 1: But I'll tell you the thing that where where I

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Speaker 1: really was like oh yes, I'm bisexual was and this

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Speaker 1: is this is a story about like the importance of

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Speaker 1: visibility and community because I went to this conference. It

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Speaker 1: was the Association for Women in Psychology Conference, and it's

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Speaker 1: just feminist psychology conference, and there's a caucus on bisexuality

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Speaker 1: and sexual diversity there. So I was like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go to that. Yeah, but like that's the moment

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Speaker 1: where I felt like, Okay, I can fully embrace this

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Speaker 1: identity and so so I'm just gonna say that that's

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Speaker 1: something important is for people to be exposed to people

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Speaker 1: who are like them, who are bisexual, because I'm not

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Speaker 1: like all bisexual people. There's an awful lot of bisexual

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Speaker 1: people out there and so might not be a fit,

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Speaker 1: but finding those those specific groups, so that was really

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Speaker 1: exciting that I was like, yay. And then I I

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Speaker 1: wrote some I did a presentation and I wrote some

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Speaker 1: personal narrative stuff about being biracial and bisexual and so

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Speaker 1: you know, I kind of put that out there. Um.

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Speaker 1: But then it was so it was a staient part

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Speaker 1: of my identity, but it wasn't necessarily like the only

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Speaker 1: thing going on. I felt like I was, you know,

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Speaker 1: part of a broader LGBTQ community. Um. And I would

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Speaker 1: always say, you know, people would be like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's great to have all these lesbians together, and I

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Speaker 1: would say, am bisexuals. You know. So I was always

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Speaker 1: like speaking up about that, but it wasn't it was

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Speaker 1: really um when I did the Ted talk, and then

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Speaker 1: you know all of the stuff that's come after that,

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Speaker 1: that it's become like such a salient part of my

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Speaker 1: identity and so you know, so I would say that

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Speaker 1: the thing that's changed most is probably the salience of

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Speaker 1: it um for my life. I will also say, because

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Speaker 1: I was teaching this class on bisexuality, um I I

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Speaker 1: dressed like the bisexual flag for each class. Here's Diana's story.

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Speaker 1: I had some struggles with with my coming out journey,

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Speaker 1: particularly because I think that people perceive by women, particularly feminine,

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Speaker 1: by women like me um as you know, slutty, or

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Speaker 1: as sexually promiscuous or is just interested in having freesomes,

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Speaker 1: and so then people project that story onto you, and

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Speaker 1: that's really you know, too much information, too personal for

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Speaker 1: being openly by, for instance, in the workplace or with

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Speaker 1: your family, if that's the way people are perceiving what

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Speaker 1: by means. And so I really dealt with that. Um.

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Speaker 1: Even at my first job as a lawyer, they circulated

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Speaker 1: our resumes, which included my bisexuality activism as a law student,

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Speaker 1: and our pictures and the time I was very blond

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Speaker 1: and feminine looking, and they decided on the basis of

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Speaker 1: the fact that I was basically a pretty feminine girl

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Speaker 1: and that I was bisexual, that I shouldn't have any

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Speaker 1: male supervisors because I was probably a risk for getting

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Speaker 1: involved with one of my male supervisors because bisexual women,

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Speaker 1: you know, must be sexually available, which is absolutely appalling.

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Speaker 1: And this was a law firm in New York City, Um,

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Speaker 1: fifteen years ago. This was not so long ago, and

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Speaker 1: that is still happening. That kind of experience, um, of

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Speaker 1: being over sexualized and stereotyped in that way. So I

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Speaker 1: feel like you deal with a lot of that from

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Speaker 1: the straight world and then in the lgbt Q world.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, I was entering queer spaces and

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Speaker 1: was perceived as not queer enough. And at the time

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Speaker 1: the movie Legally Blonde had come out, and um, some

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Speaker 1: of the lesbians and the lgbt Q group were teasing

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Speaker 1: me and would like leave me pink fluffy things and

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Speaker 1: call me legally blonde, because um, they also stereotyped me

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Speaker 1: because I was feminine and I didn't wasn't queer enough

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Speaker 1: for them, um, And so I got a lot of

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Speaker 1: hostility from both sides, and even being openly bisexual. UM.

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Speaker 1: As a student activist with my law school professors and

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Speaker 1: with my deans. I was then wondering, given those experiences,

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Speaker 1: oh God, is my dean thinking about me having a freesome?

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Speaker 1: Because that's what people think of when they think of bisexual.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm very deeply involved in the l g

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Speaker 1: B t q I community. But then I'm meeting colleagues

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Speaker 1: who are often in same sex relationships, and I have

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Speaker 1: a husband, and so I still have to come out,

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Speaker 1: and I still see raised eyebrows and surprise looks that

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Speaker 1: I'm very serious about this kind of activism and this

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Speaker 1: kind of community, and yet I'm in a different sex partnership.

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Speaker 1: So I'm still regularly having to come out and still

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Speaker 1: dealing with that and having to sometimes wonder whether people

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Speaker 1: are going to think of me differently or think of

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Speaker 1: me as less of a part of the community. I

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Speaker 1: have entered into a marriage with a bisexual man, and

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Speaker 1: we went on vacation to Morocco and to Turkey, uh

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Speaker 1: in the past year, and those are places where if

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Speaker 1: I had happened to end up with a same sex

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Speaker 1: um spouse, it would not be safe for me to

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Speaker 1: go to the places that I went to, and that

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Speaker 1: is not fair and I have mixed feelings about that,

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Speaker 1: and part of the way that I use those privileges

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Speaker 1: because I really do feel like now I have privileged

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Speaker 1: is I'm not being actively stigmatized on My marriage is

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Speaker 1: not at risk, my parenting status is not at risk,

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Speaker 1: I'm not at risk of violence. For traveling, I can

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Speaker 1: go undercover and pass as just a white, different sex couple. UM.

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Speaker 1: I feel an extra responsibility to the LGBTQ community, and

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Speaker 1: it's actually made me go deeper into my activism because

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Speaker 1: I feel like I have the privilege to not have

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Speaker 1: this be deeply traumatic on a day to day basis

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Speaker 1: in terms of my own parenting status. And so for example,

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Speaker 1: I work really actively to make sure that UM same

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Speaker 1: sex couples and other lgbt Q families can maintain their

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Speaker 1: parenting status because right now within the US and in Europe,

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Speaker 1: it's still very common to same sex couples aren't able

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Speaker 1: to get their parenting status. It is still completely legitimate

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Speaker 1: and legal in much of the United States and Europe

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Speaker 1: to discriminate in terms of foster care and adoption, to

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Speaker 1: not evil to not be able to adopt a child,

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Speaker 1: to many adoption agencies UM, and to not feel safe

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Speaker 1: traveling in many places, and to not be able to

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Speaker 1: get your parenting status record nized, which can really have

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Speaker 1: devastating consequences if non biological parents are then excluded from

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Speaker 1: hospital rooms when their kids are injured in the foreign countries,

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Speaker 1: for example, because they're not recognized as a parent. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I feel really, I feel really committed um to

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Speaker 1: being there as an LGBTQ activist and feel um the

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Speaker 1: the deep inspiration to claim this as part of my

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Speaker 1: identity because it's an important part of myself. Even though

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Speaker 1: I happened to marry a man um and to them

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Speaker 1: use that um situation of greater relative comfort, which isn't

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Speaker 1: fair to go back and support the rest of my

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Speaker 1: LGBTQ community. And here's van I'll tell um one personal

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Speaker 1: story about facing discrimination from the my my supportive communities. UM.

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Speaker 1: About uh maybe seventy seven years ago, I was working

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Speaker 1: in a large organizational, large lgbt organization, and I marched

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Speaker 1: in Pride with my partner, who was a person of

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Speaker 1: a different gender than me, a long term partner. We've

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Speaker 1: been together now for twelve years, and he and I

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Speaker 1: were super excited to march and pride there was like

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Speaker 1: a bedazzling shirt party beforehand, and we like cut our

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Speaker 1: shirts up and bedazzled them with like the Beatles metal

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Speaker 1: like weird triangle pyramid things. Um we had like ace

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Speaker 1: paint on and like bandana's and we were carrying one

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Speaker 1: end of like the balloon arch, the rainbow balloon arch,

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Speaker 1: and like we had fans were like handing up stickers,

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Speaker 1: and he and I were holding hands the whole time

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Speaker 1: and like smooching because everyone is holding hands and smooching,

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Speaker 1: And we had a really fabulous time. And then we

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Speaker 1: returned the balloon arch back to the main office of

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Speaker 1: the organization and we were riding down from the offices

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Speaker 1: to the bottom of the building, me, my partner, and

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Speaker 1: then another of my coworkers, male Gates, who um I

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Speaker 1: had worked with my entire internship there all summer and

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Speaker 1: um so he knew me quite well and he had

428
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: been there the entire time at the parade, and he said, hey, heron, um,

429
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: I have someone I've loved to hook you up with.

430
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: Can I give you her number? And I said, oh,

431
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: thank you so much. You know, uh, my partner and

432
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: I are actually a monogamist. Thank you, And for my

433
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: monogamist right now. And he said, um, oh, who's your partner?

434
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: And I looked down at mine and my partner's hims

435
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: be helped together. And then I look up at my

436
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: partner and I point to him and I'm like this

437
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: person that partners like hi, And the man turned around

438
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: in the elevator and faced the wall. I think one

439
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: of the reasons I tell that stories because it is

440
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: a really good illustration of bias and kind of a

441
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: funny way. Um. But there's another story that I don't

442
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: actually tell very frequently. Um, that really impacted my ability

443
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: to do my job and to feel safe. It wasn't

444
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: another organization. And I was in the car with my

445
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: immediate supervisor and we were in the car for a

446
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: long journey a couple of hours, and halfway through she

447
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: turned to me out of the blue and she said, Karen,

448
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: have you ever been in a long term relationship with

449
00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 1: a woman? And I felt cold all over and I

450
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: knew that there was no right answer to this question.

451
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: There were only wrong answers to this question. Yeah, as

452
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: I said yes, she would make me define long term.

453
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: If I said no, she would essentially use that as

454
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: justification to herself two dismissed my queerness to dismiss me

455
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: being part of her community. If I didn't say anything,

456
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: I would be not answering my boss direct question to me,

457
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: and it was clear that she I thought this was

458
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: an appropriate question to ask an employee. Yeah, you know,

459
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: we were both attorneys. We were headed to a hearing,

460
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: and this is what started the day for me, demanding

461
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: that I justify my identification as a queer person. What

462
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: was your response and what was her response? Does it

463
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: matter to you what my response was? Actually, I think

464
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: the reason I asked is because for so many people,

465
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: what do you do in those situations? Like I cannot

466
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: imagine being pigeonholed into that situation? And for a woman

467
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: or sorry, a person like you who survived and continue

468
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: to tell that story as something that has impacted you

469
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: and will probably impact you obviously does for a long

470
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: if not forever. I think that question came because like,

471
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: what did you do? What can you do? What did

472
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: you do? I think that's my thought and just wondering

473
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: like the audacity, Yeah, yeah, I think I want to

474
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: plushed a little bit and not tell you because I

475
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: I'm going to use this as like a little opportunity to, like,

476
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: you know, let maybe you and some listeners be like

477
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: a little uncomfortable with not knowing, because it doesn't matter.

478
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: That's the truth about that question is the answer isn't relevant.

479
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: You know, if someone had never had any relationship with

480
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: anyone and identified as straight, we're gay, no one would

481
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 1: ever question their sexual orientation. But for some reason, bi

482
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 1: sexuality validity is predicated upon someone sexual contact with people

483
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: and the quantity and the quality and the duration, and

484
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: for some reason, our sexual orientation is the only sexual

485
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: orientation subjected to that level of scrutiny and analysis. Mhm

486
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: mm hmmm. Sorry, I'm taking it all in, take it in.

487
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: There's a lot of emotions, like tears in my eyes

488
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: right now. I'm not gonna lie. So obviously we got

489
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: a little emotional and we wanted to know how to

490
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: be better allies. Obviously, as someone who misunderstood and did

491
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: not quite see the depth of why this is so dangerous,

492
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: misrepresenting bisexual the terms why it was so dangerous, I

493
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: definitely had to ask, how do I become a better ally?

494
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: How do I make sure that this does not happen

495
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: in my circle or those around me, or my influencing UM.

496
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: And as you can hear, there's a moment of intensity

497
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: with Hearn and it was really uncomfortable. But as uncomfortable

498
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: as it was, her point was amazing, the fact that

499
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: this is how she felt, this is how uncomfortable she

500
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: was as well. And it was like, wow, you know what,

501
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: I really appreciate this moment, even though again I was

502
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: super uncomfortable. We all kind of stopped and I looked around.

503
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: I was like, what's happening. But it was so necessary

504
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: and it was so important that she was able to

505
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: say that we, Like I said, funding is I mean,

506
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: funding is definitely UM at the source of a lot

507
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: of social issues, right. UM. So if you're looking at

508
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: UM and I don't have I don't have the numbers

509
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: off hand, UM, but if there's a few articles that

510
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: have showed like the amount of UM federal on both

511
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: federal and both community funds UM to LGBT organizations, and

512
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: if you're breaking them down by identity bisexual people, although

513
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: statistically there they're most people who identify as quote of

514
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: LGBT identifies by LGB look at sexual orientation identifies bisexuals,

515
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: there's more people who identify it's bisexual than there are

516
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: people who identify as leads beinging gay. But we have

517
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: the numbers in terms of like, you know, we got

518
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: like a whole bipopte over here, but we're not getting

519
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: the funding for that. So even though there is a

520
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: ton of people who identify as bisexual, that isn't represented

521
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: in the funding for um by programming, for bisexual awareness,

522
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: for health disparities research, for any other types of research.

523
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: So it's it's in an interesting place where you have

524
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: the bodies, but you don't have the money to support

525
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: those bodies. Recently, actually, I saw an article going around

526
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: social media that said the a large number of Black

527
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: women identify as bisexual, and I was like, du like, seriously,

528
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: we're just not talking about this um And so again,

529
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 1: we have the numbers, we know that there's a ton

530
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: of black women who identified bisexual, but I haven't seen

531
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: any type of resources or UM research or sort of

532
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: health advocacy or any sort of social attitude specifically for

533
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 1: black by women. But we know the numbers are there,

534
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: But why aren't we sort of supporting that when we

535
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: have we have the data that shows we have the

536
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: people everything in research. It's like, you know, if you have.

537
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: If you have the people, then you know you can

538
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: do the studies and you can, you can, you should

539
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: be able to get the funding. And it's we're not.

540
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: We're not getting that. We have a lot of people,

541
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: but we don't have money to support those people. And

542
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,280
Speaker 1: that support to just look at look like funding, UM.

543
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: I mean bisexual organizations like UM, buy net USA, like

544
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: the New York Area Bisexual Network like BRC UM offering

545
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: more funding so they can do more community work. UM

546
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: having more research funding. I mean by person the research

547
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 1: and bi sexuals. I would I would love to be

548
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 1: able to apply for like a by specific like federal grant.

549
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,919
Speaker 1: But that'd be amazing UM. And that's not And it's

550
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: not just in like, oh I want that for me,

551
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: because I'm not. It's not for me. I'm not doing

552
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: this research like on me. I'm doing and on other people.

553
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: And it's so like can it's so people who can

554
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: sort of disseminate this research out and so we can

555
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: reach more people and have like a bigger impact. UM.

556
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: So I think it really it all boils down to

557
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: the money at the end of the day. I think that, UM,

558
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: it's really powerful to do things like this. UM. And

559
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: actually really listen. So I really appreciate everybody who's listening

560
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: and being open to hearing from people from that community.

561
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: And I'm appreciative that you are bringing people on who

562
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: are from the bio community to really hear about our experiences.

563
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: And I think that it's really useful throughout the LGBTQ

564
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: community to be listening to the experiences, the lived experiences

565
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: of people who are themselves transgender, who are intersex, who

566
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: are a sexual, who are lesbians, we're gay, or transgender,

567
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: and being able to um continue to keep an open

568
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: mind and continue listening. I'm still listening. I've been listening

569
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: for twenty years to my colleagues and my community, and

570
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: we're all still learning. So I think being in a

571
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 1: learning space is really helpful. I also think that as

572
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: I feel the personal emotional space to take on some

573
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: of these issues because they're not directing my own parenting status,

574
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,919
Speaker 1: for example, in a traumatic way, I think that's there's

575
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: a really powerful space for allies when, for example, there

576
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: have been absolutely horrific, um horrific measures by the current

577
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: Trump administration. UM, it's really useful when your lgbt Q

578
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: friends are just feeling emotionally exhausted to be the one

579
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: who's spreading the word online, who's talking to people about fundraisers,

580
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: about issues, about calling your senators, having the energy to

581
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: do that in moments when people in the LGBT community

582
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: themselves might just feel really defeated. So I think that

583
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot of really powerful opportunities to be an ally. UM.

584
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: I am a very committed ally, for example, to people

585
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: in the transgender community, and I feel a lot of

586
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: alliance between the bisexual and transgender community as often the

587
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: hidden or more forgotten parts of the lgbt Q I

588
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: a continuum, and so I'm often interested in amplifying voices

589
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: of transgender people as well as of intersex and a

590
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: sexual people, um along with bisexual people, to sort of

591
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: reminding people that the only the only image out there

592
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: isn't doesn't need to just be a lesbian and gay

593
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,399
Speaker 1: people who are in same sex marriages. And I think

594
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: that that's particularly important right now when the transgender, when

595
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: tud gender Americans are under so much attack, and when

596
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: there's been advisories from Trump's Health and Human Services that uh,

597
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: people who are medical workers could not even maybe don't

598
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: even treat transgender people because of a religious exemption, UM,

599
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 1: and that homeless shelters would be able to turn away

600
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: transgender people. I think that, um, those measures may not happen, UM,

601
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: but still they are a real hospile message to the

602
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: very human dignity of people in the transgender community. And

603
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 1: people are feeling really beaten down. And so I'm often

604
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: picking up the mantle and working on those issues. And

605
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: my nonprofit doesn't find of Low Center has a Transgender

606
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: Umbrella project, which is providing pro bono services in New

607
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 1: York and New Jersey to transgender low income people to

608
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: do a full We're calling it an umbrella to protect

609
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: from whatever storms come of legal protection as well as

610
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: name change package. Because I think that's really important to

611
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: be UM, bisexual allies for the trans community, and I

612
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: think that everybody can be an ally to people who

613
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,720
Speaker 1: are by by remembering in those moments to not erase

614
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 1: bisexuals from the conversation. Um. You know, when you're watching

615
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: the Queen documentary to say, wait a minute, don't describe

616
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: him as a gay man. He actually had a long

617
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: term female partner. UM. Sounds like by to me, you know,

618
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: just being being willing to be part of that conversation

619
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: of not erasing bisexual people from our community history, if

620
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: I think, also really helpful. So one of the things

621
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: that I had asked about in being an ally was

622
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: something specifically with my job. I do work with teenagers.

623
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: I do work with at risk kids, UM, and I

624
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: work with them in the Southern State, and for that

625
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of training or understanding. And we

626
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 1: do talk about the LGBTQ, but just like a majority

627
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: of the society, we can't. We concentrate on the l

628
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: G and the T and that's about it. And I

629
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: wanted to know how do we service these youths who

630
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: do identify as bisexual or who are trying figure out

631
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: if they're bisexual, and UM, who she isn't speaking about it.

632
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: I've written a bunch about how we can support by youth, UM,

633
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: how we can support by adults. UM. The easiest way is, honestly,

634
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: just to have conversations like these, just talk about bisexuality,

635
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: you know, normalize it among your non by communities so

636
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: people are like, oh, yeah, by totally cool. UM. The

637
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: second way is to integrate examples of buy and Pan

638
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: folks into your all of your literature and that means

639
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: posters on the walls, that means criers, that means board reports,

640
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 1: that means um research, that means outreach to youth, and

641
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: outreach to donors and outreach to the community. UM. Something

642
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 1: simple as you know, uh Bianca, a black by trans woman,

643
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 1: was able to get a placement at this organization thanks

644
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: to our work. Yea um. And you know, if you

645
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: want to go a little bit deeper, then you know,

646
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: have a support group for buy and Pan youth, you know,

647
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: once a month, and I promise you nobody will come

648
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: for two months. And I think that's the point at

649
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 1: which a lot of folks say, all that means there's

650
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: no buying trans people, buy and Pan people here, and

651
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: that's the problem. Nobody. Well, I should back up a

652
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: little bit. Buy and trans folks have buy and Pan

653
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: folks have been burned so frequently by organizations to try

654
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: and kind of do a nominal support for buying pan

655
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: communities that we're really really suspicious. But if an organization

656
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: has a regular buyant Pan support group night and they

657
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: keep at it, even if there's no one there for

658
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: six months, people will come out. But you need to

659
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: keep at it. I promise you all the data shows

660
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: that by and PAN youth are everywhere, and we are

661
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: the majority of youth being served in every youth services

662
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: organization that serves LGBT use I am wrote a piece

663
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: called Bisexuality Margins a Center um to to think about

664
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: ways that within the field of psychology and in society,

665
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: we we've thought about bisexuality as being on the margins

666
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: and and so we haven't been paying attention to it,

667
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: so we don't see it clearly, and so we're not

668
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: actually like understanding who bisexual people are in responding to

669
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: their needs. So what happens if we bring bisexuality into

670
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: the center and use it as a lens to understand things.

671
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: You can't understand bisexuality without understanding health severity, you can't

672
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: understand bisexuality without understanding history. You can't understand bisexuality without

673
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: understanding media representation and mental health and uh mental health

674
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 1: services and like all these different things attitudes. So I

675
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: was really teaching about a lot of different topics to

676
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 1: the lens of bisexuality because then you know, we understand

677
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: all of these things better. So that's the thing. If

678
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: we center bisexuality, it helps us understand everything. We can

679
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: then understand Uh, you know, people who are in relationships

680
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: with people of the same gender, people who are in

681
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: relationships with people of another gender. We can understand gender

682
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 1: more complexly. Also, um, we can understand it multidimensionally. It

683
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: helps us to complexify attractions. I had sort of thought

684
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: I made up as works to plexify, but apparently it's

685
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: an actual word. Love It so that the thing about

686
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: attraction is that we might have attractions that are slightly

687
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: different to some people, Like we might fall in love

688
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: with some kind to people and you know, wants to

689
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: have sex with other types of people. And in bisexuality,

690
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: we we have a better understanding of that. But that's

691
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: something that's true of everybody. You know, everybody's got there's

692
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: sort of differences that they that they feel about attraction. Um,

693
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: And so so we can see attractions through a different one.

694
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: We can also some people. Um, some of the negativity

695
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: around bisexuality is because people see bisexual people as being

696
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: just really like hyper sexual, and so there's a lot

697
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: of negativity about sexuality that's related to negativity about bisexuality.

698
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: So I'm like, maybe entering bisexuality allows us to talent

699
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: all that negativity around sexuality to talent erotophobia, you know,

700
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: to say, okay, well, you know, maybe bisexual people like

701
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: are affectual, but maybe so are heterosexual people and lovely

702
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: to gay people and and maybe that's okay, um, and

703
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 1: and to embrace our sexu quality. Same thing with monogamy.

704
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: You know, we spend a lot of time trying to

705
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: combat this stereotype that bisexual people can't be monogamous, because

706
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: it turns out that bisexual people, as a fact, are

707
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: able to be monogamous. So so we know that and

708
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: we know that that bisexual people can't be monogmous. However,

709
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: bisexual people might be less likely to want to be monogamous. Um,

710
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 1: it might be less likely to be monogamous than other

711
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: people are. Now that doesn't mean that they cheat. You know,

712
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: we're talking about like consensual nonmonogamy here. So maybe bisexuality,

713
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: if we center that, we can be like, okay, how

714
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: does that help us to understand different kinds of arrangements

715
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: of relationships? And maybe that helps us to accept nonmonogamy,

716
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 1: you know, for people who want that, And maybe it

717
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: helps us think about how to negotiate relationships so that

718
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: it is consensual nonmonogamy, and so that you know, so

719
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: that everybody's clear um and and then I just think,

720
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: you know, the potential to revolutionized gender is is one

721
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: of the most exciting things about bisexuality because, like, like

722
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 1: I said, I don't think that it reinforces the idea

723
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: of binary gender. In fact, I think ultimately bisexuality challenges

724
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: the idea that gender is narrow and that gender is

725
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,879
Speaker 1: the most important characteristic for us to organize the way

726
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: we think about people. So I think if we do that,

727
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, if we start to do that, then we

728
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: can also say, wow, how do we center transgender people

729
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,959
Speaker 1: and gender non binary people, How do we center other

730
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: groups that are really vulnerable in our society? How do

731
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 1: we center black lives, How do we center people with disabilities?

732
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: How do we center people who are Muslim and people

733
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: of other um non dominant religions. And so I think

734
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: it just gives us a lot of opportunity to start

735
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: um expanding our thinking about bisexuality, but also about everybody

736
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 1: who's on the margins, and and how we can actually

737
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: transform and improve our society by bringing all those vulnerable

738
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,720
Speaker 1: people into the center. We have some advice and resources

739
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 1: for you listeners. But first we have a quick break

740
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: for word from our sponsor. We're back, Thank you sponsor,

741
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: and we're back with some advice. Advice is always welcome,

742
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: always welcome, but generally welcome. It's actually good advice. Yes, yes,

743
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 1: and this was good advice. The other day, a friend

744
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: of mine and I were talking about how when we

745
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: were young and we realized that we both had a

746
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: crush on both Molder and Scully and we were so

747
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: confirmed too, and we didn't like, we didn't know bisexuality

748
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: was a thing, and feeling so confused about it. And um,

749
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: as we got older, kind of this internalized by negativity

750
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: that we thought it must be a phase, because that's

751
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: what we kept hearing, like, you're young, you're going to

752
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: grow out of it. Um. Do you have any advice

753
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 1: for maybe younger people listening who are struggling with this

754
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: right now? Mm hmm absolutely And I completely with a

755
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: Molder and Scully book and kind of girl as an

756
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: AX file stand um, and um, I think that it's

757
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: okay to be in an experimental phase. I think one

758
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 1: of the things that is really stigmatizing about people who

759
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,799
Speaker 1: were bisexual is there's this idea that many people who

760
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: are bisexual are just in a phase, and so there's

761
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 1: understandable hurt in UM. Sometimes it lives being engage munity

762
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: with by people who are going to try outdating them

763
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: and then decided isn't for them? Um and uh, you

764
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,280
Speaker 1: know a lot of people that get hurt in that process. Sometimes.

765
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: I think that my suggestion is to be open to

766
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: experimentation in a safe way with people that you trust,

767
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: without needing to have alcohol involved or that need to

768
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: have substances involved, um, but finding people who feel really

769
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: safe and being able to communicate honestly with them if

770
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: you aren't sure. I think that UM, rather than leaping

771
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: into feeling like you need to have a label for

772
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,320
Speaker 1: your identity right away, UM, you don't need to decessarily

773
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: decide if you're by, if your pan, if you're gay,

774
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: if you're lesbian, if your trans, um, if you're a

775
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: general non binary. I think that it's possible just to

776
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: have some experiences and see what feels right to you

777
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: and be honest with the people around you when you're

778
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: not sure how you feel UM. And I think that

779
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: it's also kind to those around you if you say, um,

780
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: you know, hey, this is my first same sex relationship,

781
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: but I'm not actually sure how it's going to go

782
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: for me, rather than meet someone and say that you're

783
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 1: bisexual and keep that hidden, and especially if there might

784
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: be the possibility they might decide, actually, this isn't for me. Um.

785
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: So I think that some of that hurt that people

786
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: have around people who are experimentally by can be dealt

787
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: with partly by just all communicating a little bit more

788
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: and being okay with the possibility of experimenting. It's fine

789
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: to need some time to try to figure out who

790
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 1: you are and try different experiences, and sometimes you try

791
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: something and figure out it isn't for you, and that's okay.

792
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: So UM, I hope that people can find safe places

793
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 1: and safe people to feel like they can have those experiences.

794
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 1: And I recognize that in much of the world, even

795
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: in most of the United States, it isn't actually safe

796
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: for um, a teenager, for a college student necessarily to

797
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: express same sex interest and desire, and there's a lot

798
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: of pressure to keep yourself in the closet and to

799
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: just play along with being straight and um, and I

800
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: think that's really understandable, and that it isn't always a

801
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 1: safe thing to get out and experiment with who you

802
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: are UM, but there are really wonderful supportive communities for

803
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: you if you can get yourself to them. UM. I

804
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: was definitely one of those people who fled to New

805
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: York City when I got the chance from a small

806
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: working class or old town UM and found myself in

807
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: a place where then it felt like it was safe

808
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: to explore that part of myself with other really conscious

809
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 1: people who are also interested in communicating and talking about

810
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 1: it and processing who we were. And there's such embracing

811
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: l g B, t q I A communities out there

812
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: UM online. If you can't physically get to them, there's

813
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: you know, wonderful supportive resources and people who are happy

814
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: to talk and help process UM. So I would encourage

815
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 1: people who are experimenting, who are who are thinking out experimenting,

816
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 1: who are confused, to feel free to reach out to

817
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: UM supportive people who have been in the community for

818
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: a while, because I think there's a lot of UM

819
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: support and a feeling of kinsh up with that kind

820
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: of journey, because you know, most of us have been

821
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: on bumpy journey to get where we are now. We

822
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: have some resources on our website UM at Chosen Family

823
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: laws in or dot org UM, and we post things

824
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: really frequently online and in our newsletter UM. And in addition,

825
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: there's a book that I really love UM called Whipping

826
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: Girl by Julia Serrano UM. And she is a transsexual woman.

827
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: She called herself trans sexual, that's her own definition UM.

828
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 1: And she talks about sexism and the scapegoating of feminity.

829
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 1: And she's also works with UH at least an endochronologist

830
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: or has endo chronology knowledge. So she describes her experience

831
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 1: of living UM as somebody who is assigned MAIL at

832
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: birth and then going through the experience of UM identifying

833
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: as female and experiencing sexism for the first time UM.

834
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: And it's incredibly powerful. And she also writes about the

835
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: UH overlap between bisexuality and being transgender and UM. I

836
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: think she does that really powerfully and also conveys UH

837
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: the kind of definition of bisexuality that I use UM

838
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: in terms of bisexuality, not referring to UM a gender

839
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: binary is only male and female. So I think that's

840
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: one really fantastic resource. UM. And there's a really really

841
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 1: active and vibrant community online where you can find lots

842
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: and lots of continuing conversation and sometimes in fighting in

843
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: the community, and and speaking of infighting, I want to

844
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: point out that although I personally use the term bisexual,

845
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: and I think it's important that we hang onto that,

846
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: and I haven't switched over to pan sexual and don't

847
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: think that there's necessarily a need for a new word.

848
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: I completely support people in using whatever words and definitions

849
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,279
Speaker 1: feel right for them. So I support people who feel

850
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: like they want to use can sexual because it's going

851
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: to be more readily apparent to people who aren't the

852
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:05,359
Speaker 1: fairly activists in this space that it's transclusive um our foom.

853
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 1: It just feels like the right term. And I think

854
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 1: it's important that while we hang onto words like bisexual,

855
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: which are legal, medical definition, important for our activism politically UM,

856
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: that we also feel free to experiment with words that

857
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: um are really personally meaningful for us, and that can

858
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:28,320
Speaker 1: be an ever evolving UM, a set of terms that

859
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: describe how people are feeling about their identity. And I

860
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: think that's absolutely a valid part of the queer continuum.

861
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 1: And I think that something that's also powerful and not

862
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: spoken of very often is the way that we can

863
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 1: go through a journey over the course of our lifetime,

864
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: and I think I have personally, you know, known people

865
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 1: who may have in the nineties identified as a um

866
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:59,120
Speaker 1: uh you know, ah butch lesbian who then went on

867
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: to a dent pig as a trans man, who now

868
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: may identify as more non binary as the different ideas

869
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: in our community evolved. And I don't think that that

870
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: makes any of those identifications any less valid, but I

871
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: think they were all on an active journey as a

872
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: community to to understand the full realms of um our

873
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: sexuality and gender spectrums and the ways that those can

874
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: even shift over a lifetime. I think that's also something

875
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: that's worth mentioning about bisexual identity that's really true for

876
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: me and many people I know, is that it is

877
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: not necessarily six at all times, and so over the

878
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: course of my twenty years of adult life, I haven't

879
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: necessarily been at all times fift key percent romantically and

880
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 1: sexually interested to men and women. There have been times

881
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: when I felt like I am mostly a lesbian, but

882
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: I am married to my husband and I love him,

883
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: and all other men kind of gross me out. And

884
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 1: there have been other times where I was primarily dating men.

885
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: Um There have been times where I was primarily romantically

886
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 1: attracted to men and primarily sexual attracted do women, which

887
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: is complicated, let me tell you, um. And I think

888
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: that all of that is a really realistic portrayal of

889
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: what this journey can be like. And so if people

890
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 1: feel a little bit messy and confused along the way,

891
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: or feel like they're definition of themselves is shifting, I

892
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: don't think that's a problem. I think I think that's

893
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: a feature, not a bug. I think that's part of

894
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: a beautiful, expansive vision of queer identity that we're working

895
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: on now. And I think that's one of the ways

896
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 1: that the word clear is actually a really useful word,

897
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: because queer embraces a full continuum of identification and doesn't

898
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: necessarily require us to break ourselves down into like are

899
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 1: you in the ELB you know, are you over here

900
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: in the L box or the G box, the B box,

901
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: the T box. I think that allows for multiple ways

902
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: of identifying which are outside of a system that UH

903
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 1: enforces sort of heterosexual different sex monogamy and people being

904
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: sis gender. Everybody who who feels like they are somewhere

905
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 1: outside of that or wants to allow for the possibility

906
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 1: of that. I think clear is a wonderful word in

907
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: that way as out. So one of my suggestions for

908
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: listeners might be to embrace the ways that they are

909
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 1: evolving a methody and not feel any guilt of shame

910
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: about that. Honestly, I'd say, like, you're not, like, you're

911
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 1: not alone. It might it might seem like you're, you know,

912
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: surrounded by people who are some sort of different and

913
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 1: the type of different that you are people don't really get.

914
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: But you're not alone. Like there's massive bisexual communities that

915
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: are out there. Um you know, younger people, older people.

916
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's community, you know. Um, yeah, it

917
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: might be kind of hard to find at first if

918
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: you're not sure like where to look, but there's community

919
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: out there, and you know, like there's as much as

920
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: there's like the stereotype of like the confused bisexual, there's

921
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with being confused, like people are. Humanity

922
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: is like there's confusing concept and it's it's okay, sort

923
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,919
Speaker 1: of like I think that you want to figure something

924
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: us out and that's fine. Um, you know, being being

925
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,919
Speaker 1: confused for a bit, um it's fine. But just trying

926
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: not to give into the pressure that you have to

927
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: choose aside when both sides are great, great, Um, why

928
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 1: choose when you can just live in either or life.

929
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything wrong with like answering both hands, right. Um.

930
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: I joke around a lot with my friends when you know,

931
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 1: we're just doing anything and they're like, oh, do you

932
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: want this or do you want this? And my answer

933
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,479
Speaker 1: is just gonna be yes, Like do you want Indian food?

934
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 1: Do you want Mexican food? Yes? I think that sort

935
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: of shifting that mindset. I mean, like I say it jokingly,

936
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: but like that's sort of what I want to do,

937
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 1: is sort of shift shift people's mindset that it doesn't

938
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: have to be do you want um, one sex or

939
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 1: one gender or one expression or like a cool unhole

940
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: opposite sex. Their questions and they're multiple sexual students and

941
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: ex questions, but I think, you know, for some people

942
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 1: to answer is just yes and that should just be okay. Yeah.

943
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: I think my advice is just to trust yourself. You know,

944
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: maybe you do identify as bisexual, maybe you identify as

945
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: pan sexual. Maybe your sexual orientation is fluid. A lot

946
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: of people have fluid sexual orientation and that's okay too.

947
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: Maybe you've gone through different labels in your life, and

948
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 1: you'll change labels as you age, and that's okay. To

949
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: sexual orientation is natural. It is immutable in the sense

950
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: that everybody has a sexual orientation. But if yours changes

951
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 1: over time, that's okay too. You can be born the

952
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 1: way you are and that way fluctually and evolve over

953
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: time and still be just as valid as people who

954
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: knew from the time they were fo and have never changed.

955
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: That's great too. But those among us who have fluid

956
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: sexual orientations, we are just as valid and we were

957
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: born the way we are. So if you have an

958
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: evolution and the evolution ends with you identifying as buyer, pan, welcome.

959
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 1: I love you. You are part of my non monosexual community,

960
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 1: and you're amazing. And if you are just stopping by

961
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: non monosexuality through the with the day of your lifetime,

962
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: you are also amazing. I love you, um, and I

963
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: will advocate for you throughout your lifetime. And yeah, I

964
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: mean we're all awesome. We're all cool. So the Bisexic

965
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 1: Resource Center is a great um it's got an online

966
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 1: size of so a base in Boston. But but if

967
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 1: you look for Bisexical Resource Center, online, they're on Twitter

968
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: say they do a lot of work. UM. They've got

969
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: a lot of resources available around bisexuality and there super

970
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 1: awesome and collaborative. UM by net USA is also a

971
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 1: great organization that does a lot of organizing and that

972
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 1: and that brings together, you know, people on these issues

973
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of advocacy and so that's a

974
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: great group. There is a conference in Minneapolis every year

975
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: UM for UM for bisexual people and called the Because

976
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 1: Conference and it's been going on for decades and most

977
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: people don't know that, and so if you actually want

978
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: to go to a BI conference, you can do that.

979
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: There's also gonna be a BI conference in San Francisco

980
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: this October UM, so that's something UM. And then there's

981
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 1: also one of my favorite UM efforts around promoting visibility

982
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: for bisexual people is uh this still Bisexual campaign. So

983
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: if you look up like hashtag filled bisexual UM, you'll

984
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: find videos that people that bisexual people have made where

985
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: they tell their stories through these the sort of like

986
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 1: they don't seek They've got like cards that they've written

987
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: on and there's music and there's it's a lovely way

988
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 1: to find bisexual people who might be similar to you,

989
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 1: because you can search on their website by different um

990
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: different types of bisex and people like bisexual women or

991
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 1: older bisexual people, or you know, different kinds of like

992
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: bisexual people of color, different intersections. And I think that

993
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 1: that's a great way to try to find yourself reflected somewhere.

994
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 1: It's also a great way to be more visible, like

995
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 1: if people are like, hey, I want to do something

996
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: to support other bisexual people, and you can do that

997
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: and you might find that that it also supports you

998
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 1: actually speaking yourself or sharing your story and affirming. That

999
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 1: can be a great way to UM to actually elevate

1000
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: your own um feelings about yourself as a bisexual person.

1001
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: And UM, the Bisexual PS Session proops that we have

1002
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 1: at Santa Barbara, UM a bunch of us participated. They actually,

1003
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 1: like the still bisexual folks came up from l A

1004
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: and filmed us and people in the group have talks

1005
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: about how meaningful that wants for them to do that,

1006
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 1: to share that, to get responses from people honest, So

1007
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 1: I really think that's a very cool effort. Yeah, and

1008
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 1: I saw you got your video and one of the

1009
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: cards was that you write bisexual hiku is that true?

1010
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: It is true. I write bisexual Hi t I call

1011
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 1: it by two. Here's a bike to that I've wrote.

1012
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 1: Five month is over and I'm still bisexual. I'm not shocked,

1013
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: are you? It's so good. So and in my class

1014
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 1: UM for the last day of class, I the students

1015
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 1: I asked them to write a biku to summarize something

1016
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 1: that they learned in the class. And so the students

1017
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 1: wrote a bunch of awesome bikus. So I tweeted those

1018
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 1: out so you'll be able to find stuff that my

1019
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 1: amazing students did. And of course we had to ask

1020
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: about silver line, right. Hope, some hope in the future.

1021
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: Some projects going on, some amazing projects. I'm working on

1022
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: this project with the colleagues of mine, Amanda call it

1023
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 1: on definitions of bisexuality. UM, so that's one that we're

1024
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 1: um we're working on writing and finishing up. But I'm

1025
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: in my own research and um, well that's my research.

1026
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 1: But in my own research is my new position as

1027
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: an assistant professor. I am doing a study on the

1028
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: impact of microaggression for queer people of colors um and

1029
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 1: with that, I'm also collecting data on people well black

1030
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: queer people. UM. But I'm also collecting data on black

1031
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 1: bisexual people just sort of do an interview and get

1032
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 1: some of their experiences. So I'm really really really excited

1033
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: about this one because one, I'm like specifically looking at

1034
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:12,200
Speaker 1: black queer people, um, and it's how I'm starting like

1035
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 1: this new chapter of my life in terms of this

1036
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 1: new position that I'm in and really trying to like

1037
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:23,840
Speaker 1: establish myself um further with research. So I'm really excited

1038
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: about looking at this concept of microaggression, um, both in

1039
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: terms of race and in terms of sexual orientation as

1040
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: experienced by by sexual people. So I'm still I'm still

1041
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 1: recruiting for that one actually, so we're probably going to

1042
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: be recruiting for a few more months. Um. But I'm

1043
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: so excited to get more people to take the survey

1044
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 1: and sort of start to analyze the results on that.

1045
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really excited about what this is going to

1046
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: look like. I'm part of a group called by Law

1047
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: as a Dye Law, and it's a group of bisexual

1048
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: attorneys who are activists around this issue. And we didn't

1049
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: for example, and amicast briefed the Supreme Court during the

1050
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:13,240
Speaker 1: Supreme Court litigation related to the same sex marriage about

1051
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: making sure that bisexual people were included in the language,

1052
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 1: because much of the language was speaking only about gay

1053
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:24,000
Speaker 1: and lesbian people and not speaking about the fact that

1054
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: m bisexuals are also impacted. And so you know, it's

1055
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: not just that people who are gay or lesbian UM

1056
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 1: wouldn't have the opportunity to get married. Uh, you know,

1057
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 1: only only gay lesbieople you know, couldn't get married because

1058
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: they UM can't get into a different sex marriage. Even

1059
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: for me, as a bisexual person, if I wanted to

1060
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:46,160
Speaker 1: choose that that should also be valid. Even if I

1061
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: could potentially be in a different sex relationship, I might

1062
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 1: want to choose the same sex relationship. So making sure

1063
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 1: that that language is included is something that we often

1064
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 1: are the ones who will submit an ANECAST brief bring

1065
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,800
Speaker 1: up that issue. This also comes up in issues like

1066
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: UM integration cases when people are refugees who may be

1067
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 1: stigmatized because they are UM, because they've been in UM

1068
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 1: same sex relationships, because they're perceived as lgbt Q, and

1069
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: then sometimes if they're coming in and trying to prove

1070
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 1: their immigration status UM, it could be used against them saying,

1071
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: for example, you know you're not a lesbian who sigmatized

1072
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 1: because we have proof that you are once in a

1073
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 1: relationship with a man, Well, that doesn't mean that you're

1074
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 1: not also a bisexual person who may face a lot

1075
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 1: of stigma for that. I think that it's been an

1076
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:40,880
Speaker 1: incredibly useful thing for us as a community in the

1077
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 1: past fifty years in Stonewall UM to fight so hard

1078
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: for same sex marriage the United States, and it's been

1079
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 1: an absolutely amazing civil rights victory. I often speak as

1080
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 1: a lawyer about how it's an amazing story of a

1081
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 1: political movement, because going from such a deep level of

1082
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 1: stigma to relative acceptance of same sex marriage as a

1083
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 1: done yell in United States in fifty years is just

1084
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: absolutely astonishing. And so it's been incredibly important, I think,

1085
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 1: and really powerful to fight for same sex marriage. But

1086
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: now I'm part of the community of lawyers and activists saying, well,

1087
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 1: hold on, not everybody wants to get married, and marriage

1088
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 1: is not necessarily the only family form that's worth valuing.

1089
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 1: Only half of American adults are actually married, and I'm

1090
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 1: interested in finding out more information about what those other

1091
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 1: kinds of family structures look like, because not everybody UM

1092
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:31,560
Speaker 1: is getting into marriages people are choosing other things, and

1093
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 1: some other people may have found other kinds of structures

1094
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 1: that work for them. So, for example, I work with

1095
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 1: platonic co parents, and that is situations in which people

1096
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,640
Speaker 1: want to be biological parents, but rather than dating that

1097
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 1: parenting relationship on romance UM, finding a close committed friend

1098
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 1: to do that with. And I think that's particularly useful

1099
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:52,680
Speaker 1: in situations in which you might have a gay man

1100
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 1: that wants to be a biological parent but doesn't have

1101
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 1: or want to spend hundred fifty thousand dollars on an

1102
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 1: egg go or in servius a process which is how

1103
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: much to cost proxim in the United States right now?

1104
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: And maybe that client of mind who might be a

1105
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 1: forty year old woman that doesn't want to just get

1106
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:10,519
Speaker 1: married to a guy she's been dating from match dot

1107
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 1: com for three months UM to have a baby and

1108
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: then get divorced, because I see those divorce clients as

1109
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: well UM, and instead think, how about instead of rushing

1110
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 1: into a relationship UM to have a child, I could

1111
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 1: do this with my gay best friend from college and

1112
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 1: have actually a lot more stability in that kind of

1113
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:30,920
Speaker 1: relationship UM. And in addition, I work with UM people

1114
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 1: who are doing platonic co parenting with maybe a lesbian

1115
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 1: couple and a gay couple who decides that you know, UM,

1116
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 1: a woman from the lesbian couple and a UM a

1117
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 1: man from the male same sex couple are going to

1118
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: get together and UM find a way to platonically do

1119
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: an egg baster or go to a fertility clinic process

1120
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: in order to be biological parents together. And then maybe

1121
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 1: all four are going to co parent, or maybe three

1122
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 1: people are going to co parent, so that it's a

1123
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 1: couple and an extra person or two bols um. And

1124
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 1: then finally, I work with people who are polyamorous, which

1125
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 1: is the idea that you can be in more than

1126
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 1: one loving relationship and with full consensual honesty with everyone involved,

1127
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 1: and not just that you can sort of have the

1128
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 1: open relationship and swinger idea of being able to have

1129
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 1: maybe a close primary relationship UM and the only person

1130
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:24,800
Speaker 1: you have romance with, but then also be able to

1131
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 1: have other sexual relationships. Polyamory is the idea that you're

1132
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: at least open to more than one committed relationship at

1133
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,559
Speaker 1: a time. So sometimes in my community with my clients,

1134
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 1: that's three people who are in committed relationship together as

1135
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 1: a triad or thruffle or four people who are in

1136
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: exmitted relationship together as a quad and UM, that's I

1137
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:46,639
Speaker 1: think also a really valid family form. And I work

1138
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,480
Speaker 1: to support people by helping them create co parenting agreements

1139
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: or agreements about how they want to share their finances

1140
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 1: that really talk them through a lot of the potential challenges,

1141
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 1: to help them make plans in advance and make sure

1142
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:00,600
Speaker 1: all of their intentions are on the same page. And

1143
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: I think those conversations are actually more important than the

1144
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 1: contract you end up with at the end. UM. I

1145
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 1: think it's a really powerful way to support other kinds

1146
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:11,759
Speaker 1: of families. And I am actually myself polyamorous. My husband

1147
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 1: and I have been together for twelve years. We're both bisexual,

1148
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 1: and um we're in a polyamorous relationship and for us,

1149
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 1: that's part of our expression of being bisexual people. I

1150
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 1: was really tormented in my mid twenties, um, thinking I'm

1151
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 1: going to have to choose to be with a woman's

1152
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:29,640
Speaker 1: the rest of my life. I'm going to choose to

1153
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 1: be with the man for the rest of my life.

1154
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:33,880
Speaker 1: And it was just this agonizing choice for me because

1155
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 1: it felt like it was gonna be really difficult. Um.

1156
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: It felt like, are you going to only eat sweet

1157
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 1: foods forever or savory foods forever? And I was like, no,

1158
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 1: I can't. Um. And for me, that's part of an

1159
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:48,560
Speaker 1: expression of my bisexuality. But there is sometimes is a

1160
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: stereotype that bisexual people are sexually promiscuous or that we

1161
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,559
Speaker 1: can't be an ugamous and I think that's absolutely not accurate. Um,

1162
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 1: this is something that works for me. And there are

1163
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 1: a good number of people who are bisexual who are

1164
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 1: also polyamorous or otherwise non monogamous as part of an

1165
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:06,839
Speaker 1: expression of their bisexuality, but that certainly is not for everyone,

1166
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,679
Speaker 1: and even being polyamorous does not imply sexual promiscuity. I'm

1167
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: somebody who has a few ongoing connections in addition to

1168
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:16,560
Speaker 1: my partnership, including a woman I've been involved with for

1169
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:20,920
Speaker 1: five years, and that's a more full expression of who

1170
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 1: I am as a bisexual woman. And it's something that

1171
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 1: my spouse and husband fully celebrates and I celebrate in

1172
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 1: him as well. UM. So those are family forms that

1173
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 1: have not been traditionally supported by a legal services organization.

1174
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:39,599
Speaker 1: Many manical services organizations that work with LGBT people primarily

1175
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 1: work with lesbian or gay couples, you know, female same

1176
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,560
Speaker 1: sex couples, are male same sex couples, or work with

1177
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 1: transgender people to get name change documents. But I was

1178
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 1: interested in supporting a fuller range of what lgbt Q

1179
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 1: families can look like, which can sometimes um involve kinship

1180
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 1: units such as polyamorous people. UM. I think it's also

1181
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 1: valid to make connections between these kinds of queer families

1182
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:06,599
Speaker 1: and people who might not think of themselves as queer

1183
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:10,960
Speaker 1: or lgbt Q, such as people who form kinship networks

1184
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,839
Speaker 1: in the urban black community, where there's communities of aunties

1185
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:16,639
Speaker 1: who get together and are supporting each other and raising children.

1186
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 1: There's a lot of other really valid ways to create family. UM.

1187
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 1: You know, if my sister and I wanted to buy

1188
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:27,080
Speaker 1: a house together and raise children together and pay taxes together,

1189
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 1: why shouldn't we be allowed to use that relationship any

1190
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:32,640
Speaker 1: less valid than two people who were in love and

1191
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:35,600
Speaker 1: got married in Vegas last week. UM. I think that

1192
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:38,920
Speaker 1: it's really an important conversation now for us as an

1193
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:41,639
Speaker 1: except after same sex marriage, to think about, um, those

1194
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 1: other kinds of family forms as well. So there's a

1195
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 1: lot of times that we are not even paying attention

1196
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:53,120
Speaker 1: to the fact that there are bisexual people and we're

1197
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 1: not gathering the right data. So one of the things

1198
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: that we can do is, you know, in terms of policy, UM,

1199
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 1: when we're gathering data about people, and we're gathering data

1200
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:07,640
Speaker 1: about sexual orientation, then we should make sure that we

1201
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 1: don't just have like lesbian, gay bisexual as one category

1202
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:14,879
Speaker 1: that we really need to break that apart and understand

1203
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 1: bisexual people um uh separately from the way we understand

1204
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 1: lesbian gay people. Like there's some overlap that there's also

1205
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 1: some distinctions, UM. So that's one thing. Uh. There's also

1206
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 1: um ways in which we want to make sure that

1207
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 1: we're providing services UM that that are and and doing

1208
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:37,520
Speaker 1: you know, putting resources um into the needs of bisexual

1209
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: people proportionate to both the number of bisexual people in

1210
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:44,760
Speaker 1: the population and the level of need of bisexual people,

1211
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:47,640
Speaker 1: which is pretty high. So when we looked at like

1212
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:52,759
Speaker 1: funding um at NIA, for example, on the National Introduce

1213
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 1: of Health around UM sexual Orication, you would think that

1214
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: based on the number of bisexual people and the need,

1215
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 1: at least half of those funds would be going to

1216
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 1: study bisexual people and services for bisexual people. And and

1217
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:11,840
Speaker 1: we're not seeing that. I have to say, there's some

1218
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 1: really incurgent stuff going on in terms of um, you

1219
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:20,240
Speaker 1: know ni ah uh collaborating with with researchers to recognize

1220
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 1: that need and try to um identify kind of what

1221
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:28,280
Speaker 1: the agenda for bisexual health research needs to be so

1222
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:31,479
Speaker 1: that there are some really good things happening around around that.

1223
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:35,759
Speaker 1: But um, but some of those kinds of policies around

1224
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:38,040
Speaker 1: what kind of data if we collect, what kinds of

1225
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 1: resources are used, And then the last thing is what

1226
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:44,639
Speaker 1: kinds of protections we have for people. So um, for example,

1227
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 1: if someone is you know, speaking asylum in the United

1228
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: States because they're persecuted in the country that they're coming

1229
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:55,840
Speaker 1: from based on their sexual orientation and they're bisexual, then

1230
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 1: then if they are speaking asylum, like they might get told, oh,

1231
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 1: we'll just make sure you don't get into a relationship

1232
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 1: with somebody of of another gender because you know, you

1233
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:12,840
Speaker 1: should just say you're gay, because you know, otherwise, you know,

1234
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: we we won't necessarily be able to provide those protections

1235
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 1: for you. And and you know that doesn't really work

1236
01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 1: for people because they you know, they're still being just

1237
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 1: as persecuted based on being bisexual, you know, in another country,

1238
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 1: and so saying we're not going to acknowledge that bisexuality

1239
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 1: as a foundation for your persecution, uh, just is denying

1240
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 1: the reality of their That brings us to the end

1241
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:46,120
Speaker 1: of our two partner on bisexuality, and we hope that

1242
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:49,080
Speaker 1: it has been as informative for you as it was

1243
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 1: for us, that we could do our teeny podcast part

1244
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:55,439
Speaker 1: in chipping away at some stigma and that maybe some

1245
01:16:55,600 --> 01:17:00,200
Speaker 1: of you feel less alone and less confused or okay

1246
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 1: with being confused. Right. So with that, I wanted to

1247
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 1: make sure that we've gotten all of the resources from

1248
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 1: the individuals, and they are. They have been gracious and

1249
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,560
Speaker 1: sending it to me through emails and out sending it

1250
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:14,400
Speaker 1: to us through emails and through social media. So we

1251
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:16,639
Speaker 1: will definitely be posting that as well. If you guys

1252
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:21,800
Speaker 1: will look for You'll both be on Twitter, Facebook and instagrams. Yes, yes, yes,

1253
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 1: And if you have any any works that you'd like

1254
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 1: to send us, any resources you'd like to send us,

1255
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:30,560
Speaker 1: any by COO you'd like to send us, please do.

1256
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 1: You can email us at Stuff Media Mom Stuff at

1257
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:36,559
Speaker 1: iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Instagram,

1258
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:39,120
Speaker 1: at Stuff I've Never Told You and on Twitter at

1259
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:44,599
Speaker 1: mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks again to our fabulous interview amazing people.

1260
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you, yes, thank you, thank you.

1261
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:49,519
Speaker 1: I'm going to Twitter stalk you and social media stok

1262
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 1: you in a good way, in a good way, in

1263
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:54,679
Speaker 1: a good way. Thanks as always to our superproducer Andrew Howard,

1264
01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told

1265
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 1: Your protection of I Heart Radio's house to epworks for

1266
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:03,000
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, is the Ihear Radio app,

1267
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

1268
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: H