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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, well, welcome back to the show. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to the podcast, new listeners, old listeners. Wherever you are

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Speaker 1: in the world, it is so great to have you here.

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Speaker 1: Back for another episode, as we, of course break down

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Speaker 1: some of the psychology of our twenties. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: come right out and say it. The biggest questions that

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Speaker 1: we have in our twenties, and the questions that I

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Speaker 1: get the most of, revolve around dating, Like how exactly

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Speaker 1: are we meant to do this? How do I stop

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Speaker 1: getting attached so quickly? How do I know if this

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Speaker 1: person likes me, if I even like them, how do

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Speaker 1: I find the one and not be completely exhausted by

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Speaker 1: the process? Or the biggest question of all, is this

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Speaker 1: something that I should even be prioritizing during my twenties?

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Speaker 1: You know? Alternatively, could this be my decade to just

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Speaker 1: be like free and uninhibited and not worry about this process.

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Speaker 1: I think that I'm there with you, and so many

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Speaker 1: of us are. It is occasionally, you know, is more

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Speaker 1: trouble than it's worth. But I also deeply believe that

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Speaker 1: dating shouldn't be a chore. It should be something that's

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Speaker 1: fun and exciting and that you don't feel any pressure

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Speaker 1: towards and that there is some pretty amazing ways to

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Speaker 1: go about it that bring us to this point. The

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Speaker 1: question that that leaves us with it, I know I'm

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Speaker 1: full of a lot of questions, is how do we

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Speaker 1: get there? How do we get to that point? And

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Speaker 1: to give us the expert advice on how to date,

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Speaker 1: when to date, and who to date in your twenties,

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Speaker 1: we have the host of the outstanding podcast Datable, Julie

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Speaker 1: and Yue. Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having for having us.

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Speaker 3: I love your voice. I'm soon by your voice right now.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Guys, you know a little bit of

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Speaker 1: ASMR to kick se out just on morning. Can you

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Speaker 1: introduce yourself and introduce Datable? Who are you guys? Who

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Speaker 1: is what is the show? O?

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Speaker 3: Yes, We're going to get right into it. We've had

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Speaker 3: this podcast for almost a decade. We were in Julie

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Speaker 3: and I were introduced by a mutual friend over a

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Speaker 3: decade ago actually, and we were just sharing what do

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Speaker 3: you call them war stories of dating, like what have

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Speaker 3: you survived? And we thought it was such a great

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Speaker 3: way to share what's going on in modern dating, share

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Speaker 3: our own experiences and not feel like we're alone in it,

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Speaker 3: so we decided to do a podcast out of it.

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Speaker 3: But since then, we've really evolved the way we see

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Speaker 3: modern dating. We think we are at a point where

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Speaker 3: people are very fed up with dating. It's dating is

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Speaker 3: harder than ever, but also it gives us the best

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Speaker 3: opportunity to date right now. And we can go into

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Speaker 3: that more later, and we go into it in our book.

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Speaker 3: But the two of us come from kind of like this.

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Speaker 3: We straddle the old and the new. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm like the first millennial, so I'm you know,

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Speaker 3: I was born in eighty one, so I'm the first millennial.

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Speaker 3: And I just remember growing up with all these rules

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Speaker 3: about dating, very traditional ways of looking at gender roles,

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Speaker 3: and now with modern dating, we're straddling kind of a

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Speaker 3: progressive view of dating. So I was feeling lost because

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Speaker 3: I only knew kind of the traditional ways of dating,

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Speaker 3: like who pays for what, and who should text and

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Speaker 3: who should initiate, And here I was in a world

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Speaker 3: where all the rules are kind of thrown out the window,

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Speaker 3: and I had to recreate a love life that worked

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Speaker 3: for me, and I didn't know where to start. So

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Speaker 3: that's where I was when I met Julie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and where I was. I don't think I ever

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Speaker 2: set out to be a dating expert, so it still

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Speaker 2: makes me laugh every day. But I was just as

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Speaker 2: confused as probably many people that are listening are right

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Speaker 2: this minute of just Where to Date. I got all

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Speaker 2: the old books. We were kind of talking about that

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Speaker 2: before we got on here. You know why men love

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Speaker 2: bitches and you know the rules. And I thought I

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Speaker 2: would approach dating like I did like schoolwork or job,

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Speaker 2: and really study up and learn all the ways to

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Speaker 2: navigate it. And I think that's why those books were

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Speaker 2: so appealing, because they gave you a framework. The problem

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Speaker 2: was I was not myself at all in the process,

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Speaker 2: and I just remember friends being like, you're so social,

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Speaker 2: you have so many friends, Like why does dating not stick?

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Speaker 1: Ever?

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Speaker 2: And I was just lost. And you know, I think

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Speaker 2: when I met you a, I was actually coming out

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Speaker 2: of like my first real serious relationship. And at that

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Speaker 2: point I was like, you know, I found someone, I

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Speaker 2: did it, I made it work, and then it didn't

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Speaker 2: and it wasn't because the love wasn't there. I realized,

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Speaker 2: just like not all the time things happen the way

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Speaker 2: like we're told they are and like in the movies,

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Speaker 2: and you know, this simplistic view of relationships, and I

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Speaker 2: think it just made us both really curious on the

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Speaker 2: topic and want to dive in even more.

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Speaker 1: I love that this was like an accidental career feed both.

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Speaker 2: Oh hundred, Rissa, You're gravitated to things right that you

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Speaker 2: like struggle with.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you know, the psychology of your twenties. I have

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Speaker 1: no idea what I'm doing. That's the whole reason I'm

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Speaker 1: doing this.

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Speaker 2: But you know what you do, and then you learn

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Speaker 2: all the gut along the way, right, And now.

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Speaker 1: I just get to interview really smart experts and they

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Speaker 1: just give me all the tips, like yourself. But I

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Speaker 1: do think that you raised a really interesting point, which

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Speaker 1: is that dating in this day and age is very different,

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Speaker 1: and I think that a lot of us are bringing

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Speaker 1: very outdated ideas of what that looks like. Outdated ideas

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Speaker 1: of like, what are the games that we have to play,

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Speaker 1: what are the rules to follow? Blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that those rules are actually you know, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't want to say worsening our chances,

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Speaker 1: but making it so much harder for us to actually

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Speaker 1: enjoy the process.

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Speaker 3: Well, if you think about it, dating is for you.

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Speaker 3: You're not dating for other people. Yet we are restrained

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Speaker 3: by these rules that other people have created for us,

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Speaker 3: these social constructs that are not serving us for most

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Speaker 3: part and not helping us in any way. So just

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Speaker 3: by virtue of saying there are these rules already puts

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Speaker 3: us in a box and doesn't free us from being

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Speaker 3: our most authentic selves in dating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this is kind of a weird response

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Speaker 2: as to dating experts, But one of the things we've

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Speaker 2: realized in our decade is you actually don't need to

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Speaker 2: be good at dating. Maybe it's actually hurting you because

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Speaker 2: the way dating is operates today. We're not saying to

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Speaker 2: not date. It's maybe to change how we date, but

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Speaker 2: the way it operates today, it's all centered around disconnection

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Speaker 2: when all we really crave is connection and the games.

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Speaker 2: Like we hear, you know, people are like, well, I'm

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Speaker 2: over the games. I don't do that, But then we

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Speaker 2: hear them say like, oh, but you know, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: wait half an hour to text that person back because

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Speaker 2: they didn't text me back right away. That's a game,

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Speaker 2: and it's like as baked into dating culture that we

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Speaker 2: don't always even realize when we're playing games.

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Speaker 1: I really like that point. It's like, is the biggest

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Speaker 1: mistake that we're making not being authentic? Like is it

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Speaker 1: just seriously back to basics? Oh my god, there we go, done?

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Speaker 1: Episode over And that was actually gonna be one of

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Speaker 1: my questions. I was going to be that you guys

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Speaker 1: are the dating experts. What's the biggest mistake that we're

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Speaker 1: that we're making. What's the thing we're getting wrong about dating?

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Speaker 1: Is it you know that we're not authentic? And is

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Speaker 1: it that we're trying to be someone that we're not

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Speaker 1: in the first week, month, day, year of dating someone.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you did a recent episode about dating burnout,

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Speaker 3: and we truly believe that you feel burnt out when

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Speaker 3: you are not true to yourself because you're exerting more

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Speaker 3: energy to be something you're not. That's how you get

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Speaker 3: burned out. But if you're authentic to who you are

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Speaker 3: and your needs, then you feel energized, like dating should

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Speaker 3: feel energizing if you're doing it in a way that

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Speaker 3: serves you, right, So I think you're onto something there, Gemma.

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Speaker 3: Maybe the biggest issue is we're all trying to be

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Speaker 3: something we're not, and that's what's causing us to be

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Speaker 3: burnt out, to feel overwhelmed, to feel completely failed by

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Speaker 3: modern dating, when we just need to take the control

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Speaker 3: back and say, I am in the driver's seat of

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Speaker 3: my love life and I will make every choice, every action,

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Speaker 3: every behavior is in line with what I authentically stand for,

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Speaker 3: not with society or other people want for me.

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Speaker 1: I also feel like when with what you were saying,

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Speaker 1: then when you put on this like false persona, right,

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Speaker 1: you end up attracting people that you don't even lie

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Speaker 1: and like you said, like it's so draining and you're

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Speaker 1: so burnt out. It's kind of like a friendship, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you just know that you want a person and

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Speaker 1: you really actually don't get along that well, Like there

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Speaker 1: really isn't much like chemistry completely platronically of course, and

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Speaker 1: you don't remain friends with those people, like you don't

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Speaker 1: message them, you know, text them, you don't really want

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Speaker 1: to hang out with them. But with dating, it's like

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Speaker 1: the stakes are so high that you give these people second, third,

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Speaker 1: fourth chances and then you're both exhausted during the relationship

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Speaker 1: and then afterwards you probably feel a sense of like,

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Speaker 1: but I did all these things, I did everything right

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Speaker 1: and it didn't work out. Like that's the whole Like,

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Speaker 1: that's the whole cycle that I think really frustrates.

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Speaker 2: People absolutely, And we call it in our book actually

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Speaker 2: the validation trap. This is something that's getting in people's

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Speaker 2: way because dating is no longer a way to just

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Speaker 2: meet new people and have fun and see who the

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Speaker 2: right matches. It's basically measuring our self worth and that

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Speaker 2: comes from all the pressure with dating. And you know,

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Speaker 2: you and I really fundamentally believe We've talked to like

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Speaker 2: thousands of daters. We've seen people that you know, felt

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Speaker 2: really hopeless. So I felt like I've never had a

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Speaker 2: real relationship or I just don't know how to date.

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Speaker 2: Are now in super healthy relationships. So we really believe that,

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Speaker 2: like everyone is datable. That is a core message that

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Speaker 2: we have. But it's modern dating norms that are getting

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Speaker 2: in the way. So you asked earlier, like what are

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Speaker 2: some of the biggest mistakes that it's coming to modern

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Speaker 2: dating culture? Like we had one of our friends come

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Speaker 2: on the podcast and she was saying, how like in

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Speaker 2: every other part of life, she's like, go get her

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Speaker 2: she you know, makes plans proactively. If someone asks to

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Speaker 2: meet up in a business context, she's on it. A

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Speaker 2: friend asked to meet up, she does it. But in

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Speaker 2: dating she feels like because like everyone else is putting

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Speaker 2: in less and less effort, it makes her do the same.

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Speaker 2: So then she ghosts because they ghost and it's a cycle.

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Speaker 2: She drops to what she called the lowest common denominator

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Speaker 2: and art and her thing was, well, if someone's going

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Speaker 2: to give me ten percent, I'll give them nine percent.

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Speaker 2: And our take was, why not give them zero percent?

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Speaker 2: Like they're showing you what they're giving you know what

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Speaker 2: you want to give? Like, how do you rise above

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Speaker 2: dating culture? Not just do the thing because that's how

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Speaker 2: dating works.

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Speaker 1: And this validation validation cycle of validation trap trap even better, Yeah, neither.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to be in either of them. Let's

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Speaker 1: just avoid with the validation trap. Like, how does it

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Speaker 1: keep us in those same unsustaining relationships or situationships or

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Speaker 1: dating the wrong people?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because you are constantly tying your self worth to

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Speaker 3: other people's behaviors and your perceived perception of how they

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Speaker 3: see you. That even me just saying that sentence is

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Speaker 3: so exhausting right, because you're constantly like who you are,

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Speaker 3: what your worth is a product of how someone else

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Speaker 3: treats you. That's not how life should be. You know

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Speaker 3: your worth and you know what you're putting out there.

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Speaker 3: You know what you bring to the table. Why have

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Speaker 3: other people dictate that? So the danger with a validation

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Speaker 3: trap is you never fully stand strong and who you are.

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Speaker 3: You're not rooted. Your branches are just tied to all

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Speaker 3: these other people who are moving in every which direction. Like,

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Speaker 3: imagine how weak that tree is if they have no

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Speaker 3: roots but branches tied to all the other trees. You

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Speaker 3: would end up just being like we call this a

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Speaker 3: dating chameleon, where you just, you know, pretend your other

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Speaker 3: people to try to fit into other people's lives.

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Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest challenges I had personally

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Speaker 2: was situationships. It was like, even before the tree existed,

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Speaker 2: I was the queen of situationships, always in them all

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Speaker 2: through my twenties and even to my early thirties, and

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Speaker 2: finally I was able to crack that luckily. But I

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Speaker 2: think the biggest piece was with validation is that one

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Speaker 2: I think I just didn't know what love actually should

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Speaker 2: look like and what a healthy relationship was, but also

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Speaker 2: it was this cycle of wanting the approval of someone

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Speaker 2: and feeling like I could win them over, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I'd already invested so much energy the sun cost fallacy.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to keep going.

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Speaker 2: And it was so tied to my ego that like

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Speaker 2: I wanted to win, but I was like winning by

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Speaker 2: settling for someone that didn't even really want to be

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Speaker 2: with me, Like that's not winning at all. And I

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Speaker 2: think rejection also ties to that. When we're so tied

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Speaker 2: to validation, we want to avoid rejection at all costs.

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Speaker 2: And then like the most recent time I was dating,

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Speaker 2: before I met my partner, now three years plus, I

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Speaker 2: just lost all of that. Like I got to the

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Speaker 2: point where I was just like I'm going to show

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Speaker 2: up as myself. If someone doesn't want to be with me,

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Speaker 2: then like I'm gonna move on, and they're clearing my

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Speaker 2: path to find the right person. But it took a

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Speaker 2: lot of reframing to get to that point and not

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Speaker 2: fall for validation trap anymore.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure like even with all the knowledge you had,

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Speaker 1: it's still very instinctive. Oh yeah, it's just you know,

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Speaker 1: it's basic human psychology, like you want what you can't have,

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Speaker 1: like you end up being led by construction. Yeah exactly,

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Speaker 1: it's fomo. Everyone else has these relationships and you're like,

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Speaker 1: if I can just make this work, like I can

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Speaker 1: take that off my list as well. It's so interesting

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Speaker 1: because literally this morning, I've been with my partner for

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Speaker 1: like two years now. We have the best relationship, and

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Speaker 1: this morning my ex situationship messaged me out of the

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Speaker 1: bloot right before I.

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Speaker 2: Come back back, and I was like, uh huh hi, and.

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Speaker 1: He sent me like this meme about how you know,

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Speaker 1: as we're recording this, like the US election is going on,

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Speaker 1: and he sent me this meme about like how Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris is like banning all situationships and like any like

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Speaker 1: anyone who's in a like who creates a situation ship

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Speaker 1: like should go straight to jail. And it was so

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Speaker 1: I was like, where the fuck is this coming from? Mate,

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Speaker 1: Like I haven't spoken to you in like three years,

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Speaker 1: and still thinking about me like I'm with this amazing person.

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Speaker 1: Now you know that I'm with this person. But he

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Speaker 1: messaged me, and I got this feeling in my stomach.

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Speaker 1: It like did a flip, and I was just like

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Speaker 1: oh my god, and I just felt all of these

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Speaker 1: emotions all over again. And I remember, like, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: three months ago, I was like why was I, you know,

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Speaker 1: for a while, and like why was I ever in

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Speaker 1: that situation? And I was like, because he knew how

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Speaker 1: to make me really anxious and he knew how to

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Speaker 1: Like I think, I say this a lot. It comes

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Speaker 1: down to like being a bit of an overachiever and

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Speaker 1: a bit of a actionist. Like everything else in my life,

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Speaker 1: much like your friend, right, I had to work hard

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Speaker 1: for and there was this whole sense that like what's easy,

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Speaker 1: Like if it was easy, everyone could have it. So

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Speaker 1: the relationship that was most hard to obtain, the person's

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Speaker 1: attention that was most hard to obtain, was the one

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Speaker 1: that I should focus on. And I think that made

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Speaker 1: me incredibly anxious and he really knew how to leverage that.

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Speaker 1: And it was just this wild feeling of being like wow,

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Speaker 1: I'm like straight back in this in this time for

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Speaker 1: just that second, I feel exactly how that felt, and

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Speaker 1: it gave me like a sense of forgiveness of like yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: no wonder, no wonder, Like I was getting so wrapped

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Speaker 1: up in this when we were in those situations you

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Speaker 1: like everything is just playing on this like instinctual anxious drive,

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Speaker 1: this sense of like I need to find stability here,

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Speaker 1: and the only way I can find stability is to

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Speaker 1: like reach the conclusion of this relationship and make it

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Speaker 1: into something more. I just think that, Like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's been your experience, but that was the

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Speaker 1: real reason I found myself in situationships for a very

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Speaker 1: long time as well.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I can relate to everything you just said.

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Speaker 2: In our book, we actually have a quiz of like

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Speaker 2: what type of dater you are? I'm curious if you

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Speaker 2: took it, but I was an achiever dreamer, and that

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Speaker 2: combination was kind of a baby guessing that is what

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Speaker 2: you are.

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Speaker 1: Yea, yeah, it actually was.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Okay, that's the exact notion that I had too,

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Speaker 4: of like, you know, I imagine this fantasy with this

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Speaker 4: person and like for you know, everyone can take the

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Speaker 4: quiz even if you don't have the book, and go

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Speaker 4: to our website and take the quiz.

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Speaker 2: But like it's so fascinating because it's all about like

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Speaker 2: what are your strengths that you bring to dating, but

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Speaker 2: then also what holds you back? And I think in

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Speaker 2: that situation, it was like this getting ahead of yourself,

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Speaker 2: making something, romanticizing it. This is also natural. That's why,

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Speaker 2: like with all of this that we talk about, it's

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Speaker 2: like these are just traps that everyone's falling for because

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Speaker 2: it's instinctual to how dating and modern dating work, and

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Speaker 2: this deed to like win comes from this achiever's mindset

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Speaker 2: of like I still want to like get this person.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And like you said, what is bedding?

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Speaker 1: I'm the wedding is being with someone who doesn't even

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Speaker 1: want to be with me. Like that doesn't seem like

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Speaker 1: a great price. I'm sorry, Like that seems pretty crap.

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Speaker 1: How do you think how do you think we can

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Speaker 1: stop ourselves from really getting carried away in the early days,

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Speaker 1: Because sometimes I find sometimes, you know, I've now been

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Speaker 1: with my partner for a while, so not recently, but

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Speaker 1: when I was dating, and what a lot of people

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Speaker 1: do ask me, is I meet this person and suddenly

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Speaker 1: I'm fantasizing about the wedding that we're going to have

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Speaker 1: in three years we've been on one day. Is that

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Speaker 1: like just infatuation or is that a sign of like something?

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Speaker 1: How do you stop that from getting in the way

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Speaker 1: of actually getting to know each other.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just such a great question because so many

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Speaker 3: of us fall into that. And I would argue that

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Speaker 3: it's very healthy to fantasize about a future with someone.

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Speaker 3: If you don't do that, then maybe you don't have

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Speaker 3: a heart right, Like it's good to feel like the

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Speaker 3: warm and fuzzies about someone and be like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: maybe we could have a family together. But this sounds

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Speaker 3: like typical dreamer where you get so ahead of yourself

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Speaker 3: that you get wrapped and wrapped up in the story

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Speaker 3: and then you forget about the reality of what's happening.

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Speaker 3: So you know, even in the book, we always tell

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Speaker 3: everybody to just like fact check, write down all the

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Speaker 3: things that are real, all the things you are feeling,

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Speaker 3: and then just know that you can't observe all of

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Speaker 3: this and all of this can exist at once. Don't

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Speaker 3: feel bad for feeling this way, but also it's good

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Speaker 3: to to do a reality check every once in a while. Okay,

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Speaker 3: it's only been three days. Okay, I don't even know

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Speaker 3: their middle name, Like okay, like we have we haven't

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Speaker 3: had a conversation for longer than two hours, Like it's

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Speaker 3: good to just bring you back to reality. But it's

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Speaker 3: okay if you fantasize every once in a while, like

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Speaker 3: it's natural to do that.

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Speaker 2: And in today's dating culture too, we call it the

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Speaker 2: expectation of love on demand. Another trap that gets in

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Speaker 2: our yay because in today's world, everything happens at lightning speed, right,

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Speaker 2: Like you can get an uber and you can order

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Speaker 2: a meal and all the things like at the touch

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Speaker 2: of your fingertips, and of course you expect that in

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Speaker 2: dating too. So with this, like as soon as we

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Speaker 2: meet someone that we like, we often get ahead of

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Speaker 2: ourselves and we start imagining this future. And also couple

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Speaker 2: in that people are really frustrated by dating and just

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Speaker 2: want to get out. So it's all this like perfect

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Speaker 2: storm of you know, maybe not giving other people that

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Speaker 2: could be potentially better partners for the long haul enough time,

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Speaker 2: and then focusing on people that we don't really know.

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Speaker 2: Like Ua said, I really had to get realistic because

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Speaker 2: this was a huge problem of mine. I remember even

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Speaker 2: like when I met my partner now though, like I

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Speaker 2: remember my best friend being like, so, do you think

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Speaker 2: you'll go out with him?

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Speaker 4: Again?

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, you know, if I do that, would

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Speaker 2: be awesome, And if I don't, that's also okay, because

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Speaker 2: I have no idea what's going on in his life

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Speaker 2: after going out with him one time, and I think

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Speaker 2: it really took conscious unlearning of those patterns.

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Speaker 1: I guess the other thing that really factors into this

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Speaker 1: and listening to you too, you both talk about it,

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Speaker 1: is this idea that like you should have this passionate

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Speaker 1: or consuming spot your everybody's love stories, and there's this

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Speaker 1: huge idea of like you should know within the first

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Speaker 1: like five minutes, like real love won't hide and if

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Speaker 1: you have to like take time and be patient with it,

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Speaker 1: like obviously it's not the one for you. It is.

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Speaker 1: Also it comes down to like if you wanted to,

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Speaker 1: if she wanted to, they would yeah, which I am like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: Like I get I do get it. I think it's

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Speaker 1: like a nice philosophy, but sometimes, like you said, there's

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Speaker 1: other things happening in their life. Maybe they do really

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Speaker 1: want to but they can't. But also it gives us

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Speaker 1: expectation of like grand gestures and huge commitment very very quickly.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes like the best love comes from slowing down and

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Speaker 1: comes from taking your time. How do we do that

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Speaker 1: that's like the million dollar question, how do you like

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Speaker 1: slow down, actually enjoy dating, actually enjoy the process and

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Speaker 1: getting to know someone in this like love on demand environment,

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Speaker 1: in this like very urgent society that we live in.

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Speaker 3: Oh, such a beautiful observation. I will tell you I

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Speaker 3: spent my twenties being addicted to love and my thirties

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Speaker 3: chasing that high. And now being in my four I

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Speaker 3: realized that was all a ruths like that was not

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Speaker 3: that That's not what relationships are about. So I think

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Speaker 3: it's it's good to know that, you know, Oh, I

427
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Speaker 3: really chase the butterflies, or I'm chasing that grand passionate feeling,

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Speaker 3: because as long as you are observing that, you know

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Speaker 3: that's happening to you. But the second step to that

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Speaker 3: is to say, am I feeling this passion for this

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Speaker 3: person because they haven't called me back in two days

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Speaker 3: and I've now written this novel about them and I'm

433
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 3: now addicted to the story of this person Or are

434
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 3: they actually showing signs of being a good partner That's

435
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,719
Speaker 3: why I'm feeling love and passion for them. And in

436
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 3: my twenties, I will tell you I was chasing after

437
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 3: people who were the first How I described in the

438
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 3: first way is they were not available, but I was

439
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 3: so connected to the story of who they were that

440
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 3: I began chasing, not them, with these fantasy characters. So

441
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 3: now I can look back on that and say, Okay,

442
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 3: I'm glad I went through that experience, but this is

443
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 3: I think this is the biggest shift for me in

444
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 3: how I turn that around. My friend Amy told me

445
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 3: this because I asked her, like, why do you want

446
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 3: to get married, why do you want to have kids,

447
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 3: why do you want any of this stuff in life?

448
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 3: And she said, it's not the achievements or the milestones,

449
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 3: it's I want to learn how I can expand my

450
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 3: heart to the fullest. And I thought that was such

451
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 3: a beautiful way of putting relationships and dating is it's

452
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 3: not about the end result or getting someone or chasing

453
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 3: this milestone. It's what can you do to love the

454
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 3: fullest at each opportunity, and even if that person doesn't

455
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 3: stay forever, you are using that opportunity to expand your heart.

456
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: And I really hope that everybody can take that expansion

457
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,479
Speaker 3: in mind when they're dating, because it's it makes us

458
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 3: so much more of a beautiful enjoyable and like self

459
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 3: focus experience.

460
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's also this sense of like what are you

461
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: rushing towards? You know, what's the rush? And I know

462
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: people are always like, well, I just want to do

463
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: all these things with them, and I'm like, if you're

464
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: going to be with them forever, they will happen, and

465
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: you don't want to squeeze a whole relationship into like

466
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: four years and then be like, wait, we actually never

467
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: really like got to know each other. I always say,

468
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 1: it's like you've got to enjoy enjoy the waiting rooms, right.

469
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: There are periods in your life when you're in a

470
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: waiting room and it's kind of like ooh, like you know,

471
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not like coming to the destination. I'm

472
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: not at my destination. I'm just kind of in the middle.

473
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: And I do think that relationships have those rooms as well,

474
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: where it's like, Okay, this is the time when we

475
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: can like sit and slow down and have a chat

476
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: and like pick up a magazine and like just really

477
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 1: you fill out some forms, really get to know each other.

478
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: Like I really value that in my own relationship is

479
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: you know, early days, like it's only been two years

480
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: as it is it really does mean that there is

481
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 1: a trust built there and I and I know that

482
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: the bedrock of my relationship is not excitement. There is

483
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: excitement in there, but the bedrock is like true liking

484
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: and knowledge, and like you said, like my heart has

485
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: room to expand. It's like when you blow up a

486
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: balloon slily rather than just like giving one big push

487
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: and like it explodes everywhere.

488
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 2: So I like that advice a lot. I think this

489
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 2: is easier sound than dumb. But we need to like

490
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: remember the long game here, like I don't. We've had

491
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 2: these conversations with people that you know, got married super

492
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 2: early and are now divorced, and they were saying how

493
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: they felt like they lacked the communication skills, the relational skills,

494
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 2: they just didn't do it because you know, they're just

495
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: every just fell into place and it worked out. And

496
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 2: of course it was like, I'm not saying that every

497
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 2: couple that gets married early this is going to happen

498
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: to And I think if you are in the situation

499
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 2: where you're like I've been dating for a while, it's

500
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 2: hard remember that it's all going to something like you're

501
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 2: learning at every step of the way here. And I

502
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: really think that like, dating is the perfect opportunity to

503
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: test out and train yourself and practice saying what you need.

504
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: And we're always so afraid to in dating because we're like,

505
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 2: we don't know this person well enough. I don't want

506
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 2: to scare them away. But if we turn it like

507
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 2: why not scare away the wrong people? Like that's filtering

508
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 2: people out for you. And then also like I mean,

509
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: I know, for me, a huge pivotal point was when

510
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I'm going to date with my

511
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 2: own needs at the forefront. So that involved getting clear

512
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: about what those deeds even were what I wanted, because

513
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 2: in the past, I was like the hitchhiker along for

514
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 2: everyone else's ride. That's why I was in all the situationships.

515
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 2: But then when you are able to turn it on yourself,

516
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: then you're in control and you're making those decisions, and

517
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: you can also look at it like this person isn't

518
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: the right one for me, not just I need to

519
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 2: be saved and get done with this.

520
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, words I had wished I heard a

521
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 1: long time ago, three or four years ago. Those would

522
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: have been incredibly helpful, but I had to learn it

523
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 1: the hardway. We're going to take a short break, but

524
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: when we return, I'm going to talk more about how

525
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: to date seriously and how to know if someone is

526
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: the right one. I've got a more serious question. I

527
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: feel like the first half of this episode we talked

528
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: about getting to know someone, doing some of the work

529
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: in yourself around what kind of data you are, how

530
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: you canel about going slow. Say you are with someone,

531
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: it's getting serious, you are having fun, you're vibing, neither

532
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: of you are seeing other people. It's exclusive. If you

533
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: have doubts, what if you still have questions lingering in

534
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: the back of your mind, like three four, five months in,

535
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: is that something that you should call it quits over

536
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: or is it worth kind of giving them the grace

537
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: and gift of time to see if it works.

538
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And this goes back to our expectation of love

539
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 3: on demand too. People feel like they need to know

540
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 3: right away and also have no doubts in early dating,

541
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 3: and it's so you're gonna hopeway's gonna have doubts. That's

542
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 3: the reality of relationships too. Relationships evolve and you're gonna

543
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 3: have moments where you're like, am I with the right person?

544
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 3: So in our book, we actually make it very clear.

545
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 4: We have a.

546
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 3: Perfect partner equation, so you can just follow that formula

547
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 3: and really it's a plug and chug, but also it

548
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 3: grounds you into what matters in choosing a partner, and

549
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: like we really bully down to like there are only

550
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: seven things that matter, and like one of them is consistency,

551
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 3: like as this person consistently showing up for you. But

552
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 3: here's the thing though, like with we can do all

553
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 3: the overthinking thinking because their thinker is one of the

554
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 3: dating archetypes as well. This person's going to be like

555
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: every moment, is this the right person? This is the

556
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 3: right person? At some point you just got to say

557
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 3: this is the right person until they're not the right person.

558
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: We see this with so many relationships that span years

559
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 3: and years. They're right until they're not, and that's okay.

560
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 3: Like they do not need to be the right person forever.

561
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 3: There they are right for you based on your core needs,

562
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 3: your values, et cetera. And that's all you really need

563
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 3: to hold on to. You don't have to think of

564
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 3: like one hundred years down the line.

565
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: I think it's understanding why you're having the hesitation too,

566
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 2: Like Ua was saying, is it something that's core to

567
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: your values or the way you feel or your futures

568
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: aren't a lunch. I just gave away some of the

569
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: perfect partner equation. And or is it that like stuff

570
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: from your past is coming up that's causing you to

571
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: feel that anxiety, Because I think there's a big different

572
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: difference if you're with the wrong person because you're fundamentally

573
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: not aligned versus the normal anxieties that happen in relationships.

574
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: And like I know, for me, I thought like once

575
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: I met that person, it'd be all easy because the

576
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: anxiety and the difficult part was in the dating. Because

577
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 2: I met someone and I'm like, oh, this is like

578
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 2: the type of person I was looking for. You know,

579
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: everything on the outside is healthy, But what I've learned

580
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: is like even in the healthiest relationships, we get triggered.

581
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: Stuff comes up from our past, and there's a big

582
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: differentiator if this person is wrong for you or it's

583
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: coming from the back.

584
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: I love the way that you put that, because I

585
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: do think that there were so many amazing people out

586
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: there for us. We will never choose just one if

587
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: we constantly think that the grass is greener. And of course,

588
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: there is an important distinction between like you said, you know,

589
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: you have this beautiful relationship equation. There is an important

590
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: distinction between, you know, not feeling certain because of big

591
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: questions and not feeling certain because you're like, ooh, could

592
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: I have something more exciting? You know, could I have

593
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: the butterflies again? I honestly see this a lot with

594
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: people in their twenties, where they're like, oh my god,

595
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: my relationship just feels so stable, almost so used to

596
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: chasing the high of early love that you know. I

597
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: had a friend who was in this gorgeous, beautiful relationship.

598
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: She left it for for similar reasons, and they are

599
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: now back together because she was like, I just realized

600
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: that actually this person was amazing. They were everything that

601
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: I wanted. I was just looking for something that actually

602
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: a past version of me wanted more, which was something

603
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: exhilarating and intoxicating and addictive. Is that the relationship that's

604
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: gonna take me till my thirties, to my forties to

605
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 1: my fifties. Is that the relationship I want to raise

606
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: children within? Probably not, probably not, But there are sometimes

607
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: those situations. And you guys have this amazing episode which

608
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna plug here because it's so good about

609
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 1: whether you should leave a good relation, whether you should

610
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: leave a good not great relationship. And if that is

611
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: the case, this relationship is like it's fine, it's okay,

612
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: it's no amazing, and you do decide to leave, how

613
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: do you get over the fear of never finding someone better?

614
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: If this is in your stars, if this is in

615
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: your path, this relationship isn't right, how do you stop

616
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: yourself from staying for longer than you should?

617
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I was forty two years old when I

618
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 3: found out my partner of five years had been cheating

619
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: on me. We were making plans to start a family.

620
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 3: I was we were in the middle of trying to

621
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 3: conceive when I found all the text messages that nobody

622
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 3: should ever read from their partner. So here's the thing.

623
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 3: After this breakup, and it was hard, it was devastating.

624
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 3: I realized, if I can get through this on my own,

625
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 3: then I am perfectly great. Like this is If this

626
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 3: is the default of my life is to be strong

627
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 3: and independent and be like this warrior on my own,

628
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 3: then anybody who comes in my life is just additive.

629
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 3: So having that kind of reset going back into dating,

630
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 3: it was so refreshing because I didn't feel like I

631
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 3: needed to hold on to people. I knew that whoever

632
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 3: was meant for me will be in my life, and

633
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: whoever was not meant for me will naturally filter themselves out.

634
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 3: I did not need to force people to be in

635
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 3: my life. I did not need to force people to

636
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: be in relationship with me, and that allowed me to

637
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 3: attract the right people because these were people like, oh,

638
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 3: her life is great. I want to add to it.

639
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 3: I want to be a better part of this life,

640
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 3: like rate come along. But I don't need a relationship.

641
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 3: I don't need a partner. When we see when we

642
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 3: have the scarcity mindset, we feel like we need someone

643
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 3: to save us, like a relationship is going to bring

644
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: us to this island where everybody's safe and fed and roofed,

645
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 3: And that's like, that's not how it works, right, Like

646
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 3: it just relationships won't save you if you can't save yourself.

647
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 2: I think, though it's natural what you were saying, like,

648
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 2: especially like we tie in like a present bias, right

649
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: we look at what's in front of us currently as

650
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: like having more weight than what could be in the future,

651
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 2: and it's really hard to see that something better could

652
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 2: be around the quarter, Like looking at uas situation. I

653
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: feel like you're in a much better or a relationship

654
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: now at place now, but in the thick of that breakup,

655
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 2: you could not see that. You could not know that.

656
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: So it's a really hard situation that makes us often

657
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 2: overstay things that aren't working. I think the hardest one too,

658
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 2: is like when it's a good relationship, like nothing's wrong,

659
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 2: but you're just like, is there something more fulfilling for me?

660
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 2: And of course we recommend you know, having all the conversations,

661
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 2: doing the work, going to couple's therapy, not just throwing

662
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 2: in the towel at one feeling of that. But if

663
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 2: you keep feeling that and you're like, fundamentally I know

664
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 2: this person isn't right for me, you also have to

665
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 2: honor that too, and honor that and trust that something

666
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 2: will be out there that is better serve for you,

667
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 2: because if you're fundamentally feeling that way, then like you

668
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 2: do deserve something more, and so does the person you're with.

669
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, yeah, so does the person you're

670
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 1: a Wait, I imagine if you were with a pot

671
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: and who was looking you right, I just don't like,

672
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to leave them because you know they're

673
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: good not great? Right? That would that would break my

674
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 1: heart if my boyfriend or my partner was like, yeah

675
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: she's she's okay, but I'm too scared to leave her. Yeah,

676
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 1: and that's going to be the rest of my life.

677
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 2: Like absolutely not saw it to that person took and to.

678
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: Yourself, like, yes, you owe it to yourself as well,

679
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: because that's still your reality. And I love what you

680
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: said of like, Okay, you might not find a better relationship,

681
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: but you'll find yourself. And isn't that just as valuable

682
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: because there are people who go through their entire lives

683
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 1: who do not find that. And I say that with

684
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,479
Speaker 1: the most serious level of gravity having seen it and

685
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: in family members of mine actually who I'm like, you know,

686
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: you married like the first person you met and now

687
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: you're like seventy eighty, and like, I can just see that,

688
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: only now you're figuring yourself out, as you know, as

689
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: a someone who's older. And it's beautiful that they're getting

690
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: that opportunity, but it is something that you need to

691
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: take seriously. You can't like there's never going to be

692
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: a good time to end a relationship ever, and there's

693
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: never gonna be like the final, you know, especially if

694
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,959
Speaker 1: you're with someone who's like really great and like kind

695
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: and happy, like if you're waiting for them to like

696
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: screw up as an excuse to like break up with them,

697
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,439
Speaker 1: I honestly think that's a little bit manipulative as well,

698
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: because you're going to push them into those situations where

699
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to take, like take the reins like

700
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: I love the I think the overarching theme of everything

701
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: you guys say is like being the driver's seat of

702
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: your love life, and that also means having Like, if

703
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna be in the driver's seat, you've also got

704
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: to make some hard calls that might include, you know,

705
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: leaving someone who is good not great.

706
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 3: But we are saying actually inspired. Something that we talk

707
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 3: Julie and I talk about all the time is sometimes

708
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 3: we evaluate our relationships on the wrong things, like, oh,

709
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 3: this person's so nice and faithful and kind, like I

710
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 3: should stay with them because they are a good person. Well,

711
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 3: you like, just being with someone because they're a good

712
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 3: person doesn't actually do anything for anybody. You want to

713
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 3: be with a partner who is committed to growing with you,

714
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 3: who's committed to expanding the relationship with you. The minute

715
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 3: your partner shuts down or you shut down from that growth,

716
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 3: that relationship is over because you can no longer evolve

717
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 3: that relationship no matter how kind or nice or great

718
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 3: this person is. So instead of like us being like, oh,

719
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 3: I can't leave a person who's so nice and great,

720
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 3: I would have just challenged people to say, have you

721
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 3: set up your partner for success in terms of how

722
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 3: we've had discussions about growing together and where can we

723
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 3: expand more into where can we be better at in

724
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 3: our relationship and see if partners receptive to that. Just

725
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 3: like hanging your hat on someone being a good person

726
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: or nice, it's just not enough, simply not enough for

727
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: a relationship.

728
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: So this is an interesting tidbit. But like when we

729
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,359
Speaker 2: did that episode, there was a specific couple that had

730
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 2: come to us that was in mind, and they actually

731
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 2: stayed together and years later they are super happy and

732
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: the doubts are gone, which is fascinating because your instinct

733
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 2: is to be like leave, go find someone else. But

734
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: I think that actually goes back to like some of

735
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: the challenges with modern dating, that's always the instinct, and

736
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 2: that's why we're kind of in or headed towards what

737
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 2: we're calling the love crisis where dating is so hard

738
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 2: that people don't want to do it anymore, or the

739
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 2: mental health aspect is getting so out of control that

740
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: you wonder like is it even worth it? And if

741
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: we're always onto the decks, we can never develop the relationship.

742
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 2: So I like that example because it's like what you

743
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 2: were saying, you a of like when you look at

744
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 2: what's missing, how are you looking at it? And can

745
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 2: you have that like come to conversation of like how

746
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 2: do we move that barrier? And then if you've done

747
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 2: all the work and you're still not there, at least

748
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: you know you did it instead of just moving on.

749
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: I love that, and I like, I really like this

750
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: realistic approach of like look at the right things and

751
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: the order I've gotten that saying of like relationships or work.

752
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: I used to be so scared of that saying. We

753
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: used to be like no, no, no, no, it should

754
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: be easy. Yes, but like you go to the gym

755
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 1: when you want to, like you look after your body,

756
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: that's hard work, but you still enjoy it and everything

757
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: is worked exactly. Anything that's good is work and is

758
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: a choice. I actually think that like the easiest things

759
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: in life aren't always worth having. You know, it's easy

760
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: to like be passive in your life. It's easy to

761
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 1: sit on the couch and it's easy to like eat

762
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: the food that's like on your way home, and it's

763
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: easy to do X y Z. Is that going to

764
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: put you in the best place? Probably not. Same goes

765
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: for a relationship at times, especially like I don't know,

766
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: especially when there is just so much about them that

767
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: you do really like and that is important. I know

768
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 1: we're giving like conflicting advice here, guys, but I think

769
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: the basis of what we're saying is if you have

770
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: an instinct that maybe this relationship isn't right for you,

771
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: investigate it further. Is it for a reason that is

772
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: something that you can work on, or is it something

773
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: fundamental about your character and your plans and your visions.

774
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: The first step is definitely to really test that out

775
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: with your partner and really do the work and the interrogation.

776
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: If they are someone who is genuinely a great person

777
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: for you, and then it's kind of up to you. Like,

778
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: maybe the reason our advice is like this way and

779
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 1: that way is because there is no one answer. But

780
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: I love the analogy that that couple, it's hot warming.

781
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 2: I think the question too, is like what's hard, because like,

782
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 2: if you're like constantly trying to get attention from a

783
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 2: situationship that is telling you outright that they don't want

784
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 2: to commit to you, that's not the right relationship for you.

785
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: But if it's hard because it's actually making you confront

786
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: parts of yourself and you know, feelings that are coming

787
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 2: up or emotions that you've stuffed away, that's like the

788
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: right type of heart that's challenging you to be a

789
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: better person. So again, I think it is conflicting, but

790
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 2: we have to come back to like what the root

791
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: is of like what is actually the hard mm hmm.

792
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: I love that. Now we have to wrap up because

793
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: I've just gone completely.

794
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: I've got a complete It's.

795
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 1: Like I was going to ask you every single dating

796
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 1: question I've ever had. I think to finish the episode,

797
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: and I ask a lot of my guests this, what

798
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,919
Speaker 1: would each of you pick one thing the best piece

799
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: of advice that you would give you a twenty something

800
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 1: your old self around dating. What do you wish that

801
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,919
Speaker 1: you had known back then that the listeners can know now?

802
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 2: I think for me, it's trust in your timing, especially

803
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: in your twenties, there's so much pressure to you know,

804
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 2: meet these artificial milestones, and it's so much better to

805
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: take your time and be with the right person. Again,

806
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 2: it goes back to the long game, and you know,

807
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 2: getting into this mindset to of I'm the one in control,

808
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 2: I'm figuring this out. It's not the apps, it's not

809
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 2: my city, it's not all other people, like I'm the

810
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 2: one leading is so empowering too. So if you can

811
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 2: combine those two mindsets of like, you know, things will

812
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: work out for me, Especially if I make this a

813
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: priority with I'm in the driver's seat, then I think

814
00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 2: that really sets you up for a lot more success.

815
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 3: I think been asking the question you just asked, it's

816
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 3: a really good way to think about dating. The question is,

817
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 3: if you're, let's say, in your thirties or forties, what

818
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 3: did you learn in your twenties about dating? Ask yourself

819
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 3: that question in your twenties, you know, ask yourself, like,

820
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 3: in this situation I'm in right now, ten years down

821
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 3: the line, what would I tell that person that I

822
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 3: learned from it. I think in the twenties, you don't

823
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 3: need to be like I have to figure it all out,

824
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 3: and I have to get it all right because you'll

825
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 3: never get it all right or figure it all out.

826
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 3: But it's such a great place with so much freedom

827
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 3: to play and to experiment and discover. Just know that

828
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 3: you are intentional about the discovery process. You're not repeating

829
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 3: the same patterns of behavior that every moment is teaching

830
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 3: you something so that when you do reach thirty, you

831
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 3: go yep. In my twenties, I learned all of this,

832
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 3: Like I have a whole list of things I learned.

833
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 1: And also, like your dating life and life doesn't end

834
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: at thirty, there is such a pressure to hy make

835
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: sure that you've like picked up a partner along the way.

836
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: Oh my god, absolutely not good. No, you have so

837
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 1: much time. You have so much time. So I want

838
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 1: to thank you both for coming on to the show.

839
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: I also really want to plug your book How to

840
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: Be Datable by the time it comes out on January

841
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: twenty eighth, correct.

842
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And it's incredible.

843
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: It's a really good book and it's practical and it's helpful,

844
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: and it's modern and there's just so many nuggets of

845
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: wisdom in it. So I'll leave a link to pre

846
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: order the book in the description of this episode. Where

847
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: can the listeners find your podcast? Where can they find you? Both?

848
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 2: So many pleasers, We're all over the internet, but really,

849
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:57,439
Speaker 2: wherever podcasts are? Apple Podcasts, Spotify and yeah, datablepodcast dot

850
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 2: com or how toobe datable dot com.

851
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: Brilliant Again, thank you so much for coming on and

852
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: for your beautiful advice for us twenty somethings. I hope

853
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: that you, guys the listeners enjoyed this episode. Everything else

854
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 1: that you need will be in the link your own

855
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: the description of this episode. Make sure that you leave

856
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 1: a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you

857
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: are listening. Give us a follow so you know when

858
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: new episodes are coming up, especially with twelve months of

859
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: guests happening. At the moment, we have some more amazing

860
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,319
Speaker 1: guests on their way. And until next time, stay safe,

861
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: be kind, to be gentle to yourself. We will talk soon.