Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know Friendhouse Stuff Works dot Com. Hay,
Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast on Josh Clark, Charles W.
Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, and Jerry Ye should know. Yeah. I would
Speaker 1: say this is a bonus Halloween episode in a way
Speaker 1: you can all look forward to our regular um add
Speaker 1: free Halloween show on Halloween, the real bonus episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly where we do our traditional reading. It's all gussied
Speaker 1: up by Jerry. But you were like, hey, since this
Speaker 1: is Hallo weekend, almost right, why don't we just tell
Speaker 1: the story of an X murdered family. Yeah? I hope
Speaker 1: it didn't spoil it. I don't think so. I think
Speaker 1: we probably would have gotten to that point eventually, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So we decided to just do a little creepy episode
Speaker 1: this one. If you have your children, you may want
Speaker 1: to vet this one because it's definitely about an X
Speaker 1: murdered family. Don't be a sick Oh, it's up to
Speaker 1: you whether or not you want to expose them to
Speaker 1: this kind of treachery. This is bad stuff. Are you
Speaker 1: ready for it? If you get your German pronunciation down.
Speaker 1: By the way, should we talk about Ki Chang hintet? Yeah, chung.
Speaker 1: More specifically, the irony of all this, why should I
Speaker 1: ever get it right at all? The irony of all
Speaker 1: this is I was almost right when I first said
Speaker 1: it and said I don't think Chinese pronounces the X.
Speaker 1: But um, this one is just a little more. Stings
Speaker 1: a little more because we made such a big deal
Speaker 1: about it being correct and the pronunciation wasn't correct, but
Speaker 1: we were misled on the internet. Yeah, and now that happens,
Speaker 1: it happens. Still got averything else, right, A dixia chang
Speaker 1: is really chung sort of okay, And hinter kfec hinter
Speaker 1: kaifek yeah right, Yeah, I looked over these. My German
Speaker 1: is rusty, but I think I got them all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: most of them. I bet you're gonna stumble on one.
Speaker 1: But under that I don't even know which when you're talking,
Speaker 1: you know, this is what's gonna make it exciting. Man.
Speaker 1: Maybe we should have a sound effect when it happens,
Speaker 1: and I'll just like a boring Sure, okay, that'll disrupt
Speaker 1: the spookiness. Well, let's get spooky, chuck, shall we. Because
Speaker 1: there's a little town Um in Bavaria. That's correct, it's
Speaker 1: Um between the towns of Ingle and Schrobenhausen, is that
Speaker 1: either one of the ones he thought was gonna stumble on? No,
Speaker 1: I mean technically used to say like stot instead of stott.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I didn't realize we're getting technical. But you
Speaker 1: know you're you're not in Germany. That's how an American
Speaker 1: might say it, right, and by god, I'm an American. Um,
Speaker 1: although it's much closer to vad Hoffen, is that the
Speaker 1: one I'm just gonna ask every time I said something
Speaker 1: in German? Don't hear the sound effect. But there's a
Speaker 1: little little tiny village, a town called Kafek and um no, well,
Speaker 1: the town, the village is called Kaifek. There was a
Speaker 1: ranch basically you'd call it in America a dude ranch
Speaker 1: maybe even, but not really. It's just a farm um
Speaker 1: called hinter Kaifek. It was located a little bit outside
Speaker 1: of this village, in the hinter land, you might call it.
Speaker 1: So this the name of this farm was hinter Kfek Kaifek.
Speaker 1: And on this farm lived a man, a woman, another woman,
Speaker 1: some little kids. This is going terribly, isn't it. No?
Speaker 1: I think it's great. So the family who made up
Speaker 1: this uh, the tendency of this farm. They were the groupers.
Speaker 1: Andreas Grouper was the father his wife. Um is this one? Okay?
Speaker 1: All right, let me do this then you're ready. H
Speaker 1: m hmmmmmm Uh. The wife's name was Cazelia Jelia Frank. No,
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, If you begin a word with
Speaker 1: C in German and it's pronounced like a like a
Speaker 1: T s, yes for me, I think that would be
Speaker 1: cet Celia. What that's not fair, Come on Germany. Um,
Speaker 1: tet Celia. Okay, Well let me ask you this. So
Speaker 1: tet Celia? Yeah? Am I saying it right now? I
Speaker 1: think cet Celia. Well that's Italian. It does sound so
Speaker 1: te Celia is his wife. That's to be determined. Uh.
Speaker 1: Their daughter Victoria. So if there's a K instead of
Speaker 1: a C, is it something else entirely? Or is it
Speaker 1: Victoria Victoria? Okay? And there's two grandchildren. The oldest was
Speaker 1: a granddaughter. Now she has an umlaut over her name,
Speaker 1: even though it's spelled otherwise, the exact same as her grandmother,
Speaker 1: Todd Celia. How would you say that? It would be?
Speaker 1: Uh Celia to Celia? Yeah, Celia Celia and Todd Celia,
Speaker 1: Todd Celia, and cert Celia, so it would be like
Speaker 1: toad Celia and tad Celia Jr. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've never seen anyone name there. It just seemed unusual
Speaker 1: to me. I didn't know if the first name was missing,
Speaker 1: the um out, or if they really named her after
Speaker 1: her grandmother but added the um out. Maybe there's a
Speaker 1: story there. Well, you know, Chuck as we'll find a
Speaker 1: lot of the the details and facts of this case
Speaker 1: have been lost to time. That's right. Lastly, there was
Speaker 1: a little boy, two year old named Josef that was
Speaker 1: Victoria's son, and Victoria Um was widowed. She was thirty five.
Speaker 1: I believe at the time that we come into hinter
Speaker 1: Kaifek and Um, they all lived together relatively isolated actually
Speaker 1: because they the groupers. Although they were wealthy and from
Speaker 1: what I saw, held in somewhat high esteem or at
Speaker 1: least treated Um with respect to their station, they were
Speaker 1: very very much disliked as a family. Yeah, and there's
Speaker 1: quite a few reasons for this. One is that, uh,
Speaker 1: the patter Familius Andreas was Um. He was not friendly,
Speaker 1: like to keep to himself, and apparently he was very
Speaker 1: abusive to his wife and children children. He only had
Speaker 1: one living child still at this point, was Victoria, And
Speaker 1: we're in the way back machine, by the way, and
Speaker 1: it's nineteen two. Oh, we didn't say that. I don't
Speaker 1: think so. So he was abusive. I don't know the
Speaker 1: story of the passing of his other children, lost the time,
Speaker 1: lost the time. My immediate reaction was like, well, if
Speaker 1: he was abusive and they're no longer round, maybe he
Speaker 1: had something to do with it. Maybe, but totally Also
Speaker 1: the time when like people routinely died from the flu. Sure,
Speaker 1: you know, that's a good point. Uh, so he was
Speaker 1: a loner, he was abusive. Uh. There was the matter
Speaker 1: of Yosef, the two year old daughter of Victoria. Uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's daughter. I don't know where else going with that,
Speaker 1: um And he was rumored to have been born from
Speaker 1: an incestuous relationship with her father Andreas Right, that was
Speaker 1: the rumor in town, which smacks it to me of
Speaker 1: small town nineteen twenties stuff. I'm not sure if I
Speaker 1: bought that. No, but that was definitely the rumor in town. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there was a significant number of people in town
Speaker 1: who either believed that or we're very much aware that
Speaker 1: other people believed that, Yeah, because he apparently was very
Speaker 1: controlling of Victoria, kind of to the level of being
Speaker 1: characterized as obsessed with her. Yeah, so it could very
Speaker 1: well be true. Could loss of time could also have
Speaker 1: not been true. And there's other reports that Joseph was
Speaker 1: the son of another man in town who will meet
Speaker 1: later on. Um, who at one point claimed paternity but
Speaker 1: later on said no way. Especially I think when the
Speaker 1: concept of alimony payments was brought up, he's like, no,
Speaker 1: it was a product of incests instead. So Victoria was
Speaker 1: the only one supposedly that kind of spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time in town and that people seem to care
Speaker 1: for much because she sang in the choir apparently was
Speaker 1: a very good singer, uh, in the church choir. And um,
Speaker 1: so this is the scene here in semi rule Bavaria. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we we want to give a shout out. We've
Speaker 1: given um. We We've found some other articles about the
Speaker 1: case itself, but the main one that we started with
Speaker 1: was from Mysterious Universe dot org, not a normal place
Speaker 1: where we would get our stuff, but it's a good article. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we everything else I read about it, it's sort
Speaker 1: of all checked out as being the same. So way
Speaker 1: to go, Mysterious Universe dot Org. Good job, thanks for it.
Speaker 1: So things start to get a little weird on the
Speaker 1: farm when the maid at the farm, whose name may
Speaker 1: or may not be Maria, we don't know. Uh, she said,
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. I quit because this house is
Speaker 1: uh haunted. Yeah, I'm hearing weird noises in the attic,
Speaker 1: hearing weird sounds all around the place. I'm hearing footsteps. Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. Yeah. And apparently she left pretty
Speaker 1: quickly and suddenly, and the family so much so was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think she was mentally disturbed. Sure, that's an easy
Speaker 1: way to quiet the townspeople if you don't want to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't what people thinking, like a, I'm abusive and
Speaker 1: be also living a haunted house, right, Yeah, you don't
Speaker 1: want that. That's where you endow the line incest abuse.
Speaker 1: Sure that's allowable, but you don't want people to think
Speaker 1: you've got ghosts, you know. Right. So the maid leaves
Speaker 1: and that kind of sets the tone like that kicks
Speaker 1: off this season of dread. Oh that settles over. Hinterkiek
Speaker 1: would be a good name for the movie version of
Speaker 1: this season of Dread. Yeah, I can't believe there's not
Speaker 1: a number of like blockbuster movies about this. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: looked it up. Apparently there were a couple that weren't
Speaker 1: very big, um, but nothing, nothing that ever started rape fines. Well,
Speaker 1: if it doesn't have him, who care? He would clearly
Speaker 1: be one of the dudes in this, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: even Andreas Gruber, who I keep wanting to call Hans.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and nit, mate. You see the
Speaker 1: name Drewber, and that's what jumps to mind. So the
Speaker 1: maid leaves, and like I said, this, weird things start happening. Um.
Speaker 1: A few months later, Andreas is um wandering around his
Speaker 1: property around, wandering around right, just looking aimlessly for something
Speaker 1: to do. I think there was a snowstorm and he
Speaker 1: was looking around to see, you know, if there had
Speaker 1: been any damage, anything that need repairing, And he noticed
Speaker 1: that there was a set of tracks in the snow,
Speaker 1: human tracks, footprints, I guess it's a better way to
Speaker 1: call him, leading to the house. And they went right
Speaker 1: up to the house. But he looked around and he
Speaker 1: could not find any tracks leading away from the house.
Speaker 1: Super creepy, Just a single set though, Right, Yeah, it
Speaker 1: wasn't like the footsteps like God carried him from there point. Well,
Speaker 1: that would be a single step set. Uh. Well, you
Speaker 1: know the adage there were two sets of footprints and
Speaker 1: then when there were only one. It wasn't that God
Speaker 1: left you. It was when he was carrying you. Right,
Speaker 1: You're sorry. That's a great story. Whether even if you're
Speaker 1: not religious, you got to see that and be like, man,
Speaker 1: that makes me feel good because anytime you get to
Speaker 1: that point, Jesus goes zing. Doubt me, will you? Uh,
Speaker 1: it's the footprints leading to the house, not leading away. Creepy, creepy, creepy. Right,
Speaker 1: He was a little creeped out, so he said, let
Speaker 1: me wander around more and see if I can find Well,
Speaker 1: at this point he wasn't wandering. He had purpose, So
Speaker 1: let me not wander aimlessly, but let me go from
Speaker 1: room to room and barn to barn room, barn room
Speaker 1: to barn room, and find out this person that is
Speaker 1: clearly on my property somewhere. Yeah, he did like a
Speaker 1: hard target search, looking for somebody, either somebody hiding out
Speaker 1: on his property or evidence that whoever left that track,
Speaker 1: those tracks leading to his house had left looking for
Speaker 1: other tracks away from that, and he didn't find anything.
Speaker 1: He found nothing, no evidence of anybody, certainly didn't find anybody,
Speaker 1: didn't There was just nothing. Um. One thing though that
Speaker 1: he did find that was kind of off putting to
Speaker 1: him enough so that he mentioned it to neighbors was
Speaker 1: that on his tool shed, which is separate from the barn,
Speaker 1: the tool shed had a lock on it, and the
Speaker 1: lock had scratches or evidence that somebody had been trying
Speaker 1: to either break it or pick it, and they were
Speaker 1: trying to get into the tool shed, and he did
Speaker 1: not like that. So this is this is again, this
Speaker 1: is following on the heels of their they're made leaving
Speaker 1: citing ghosts is the reason she left. Somebody has come
Speaker 1: to their farm and not left. They tried to get
Speaker 1: into the tool shed. The things are getting a little creepy.
Speaker 1: So in that case, it was a ghost sighting. See
Speaker 1: I t I right, another accidental pun? Yeah was that accidental? Sure? Okay,
Speaker 1: you didn't mean that, did you? Did I say that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: He said that she saw a ghost sighting. Oh wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess that happens. Yeah. Um, I wondered, by the way,
Speaker 1: really quickly, if these footprints. If whoever did that did
Speaker 1: the old shining trick, a little Danny was so smart
Speaker 1: he doubled back in his footprints and it worked. Oh,
Speaker 1: it worked big time. Anyonce you've seen the end of
Speaker 1: the Shining, can tell you. It sounds a lot like
Speaker 1: I've been drinking today. I haven't at all of you.
Speaker 1: I've seen what you're drinking. You're drinking water. Uh. And
Speaker 1: that's not the only weird thing that happened on Um,
Speaker 1: so that was in March. I'm sorry. Two more weird
Speaker 1: things happened. So a set of keys go missing in March,
Speaker 1: and um, I don't know that one to me. People
Speaker 1: lose keys, yeah, but if you're suddenly like there's is
Speaker 1: there somebody like bringing around a property trying to get
Speaker 1: into the tool shed? Now there's keys missing? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I could see that, the scratchy lock. And then the
Speaker 1: other final weird thing in that month, they found a
Speaker 1: strange newspaper on the porch and I looked up because
Speaker 1: I didn't know what strange newspaper meant. So I tried
Speaker 1: to find out what the deal was, and everywhere I
Speaker 1: went just said it was it was a newspaper that
Speaker 1: I couldn't get if it was like, was it from
Speaker 1: Russia or was it super greety um? And all I
Speaker 1: found was that it was. That I could gather was
Speaker 1: that it was a newspaper that they did not expect
Speaker 1: to be there for some reason or another. Either they
Speaker 1: didn't subscribe to, it wasn't in their town, or just
Speaker 1: some just random newspaper being on their porch with what matters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I couldn't find anything beyond that as well. Yeah, there
Speaker 1: was one other last thing. And all of this is
Speaker 1: now starting to take place over just the of a
Speaker 1: couple of dates. Things are getting like weirder at a
Speaker 1: much faster pace. Uh. Andreas himself, who I've not taken
Speaker 1: to be a very superstitious person um started to notice
Speaker 1: sounds coming from the attic, the same kind of like
Speaker 1: disembodied footfalls that the maid had sighted um as a
Speaker 1: ghost sighting. So he's sitting there like, okay, keys are missing,
Speaker 1: somebody's trying to get into tools shed. Those tracks are
Speaker 1: really messing with me. And now I'm hearing things. I'm
Speaker 1: hearing people in my own house and there's a Chicago
Speaker 1: Tribune from Things have gotten weird. Al Right, Should we
Speaker 1: take a break. Yeah, alright, things are weird. This is
Speaker 1: in March, the last day of March nine. All right, Uh,
Speaker 1: a new maid comes on the scene named Maria for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this one's confirmed. Okay. She on her first day on
Speaker 1: the job. It proved to not be a very good
Speaker 1: first day at work for one really good reason. Ah
Speaker 1: that we'll get to in a minute. Okay, we'll tease
Speaker 1: it out a little bit more. Okay, So she comes
Speaker 1: to work, she's working. Everything's totally normal. Uh, as far
Speaker 1: as anyone around the hinter Kaifek Farm is concerned, like
Speaker 1: the neighbors and all, that is just a totally normal day.
Speaker 1: But in a few days they would realize that this day,
Speaker 1: March thirty one, was the last day anyone could say
Speaker 1: for sir and that they had seen any of the
Speaker 1: groupers alive. Correct. So flash forward a few days April four. Uh,
Speaker 1: people were a little weird. They were like, you know what, uh,
Speaker 1: st Celia, it's not in school, which is unusual. Um,
Speaker 1: no one's been to church. We missed that sweet sweet
Speaker 1: voice of Victoria up there. Yeah that was highly unusual
Speaker 1: as well, Like Victoria did not miss church, did not
Speaker 1: miss squire. I'm assuming not only did she love to sing,
Speaker 1: but this is like her one weekly excuse to get
Speaker 1: out of the house. I could see that. Uh, and
Speaker 1: so they said. And also the male had been piling
Speaker 1: up supposedly right at the post office because they didn't
Speaker 1: use stamps dot com. Right, they would have if they'd
Speaker 1: had the technology. Believe me, that's right. That was free.
Speaker 1: So the neighbors say, no, let's go check on them. Um,
Speaker 1: apparently they went at that other neighbors, right, really they do.
Speaker 1: You should like him that much and just lets it go.
Speaker 1: It's a neighborly thing to do. We're Bavarians. So what
Speaker 1: we do so that this little search party goes to
Speaker 1: the house to go check on things. And the house
Speaker 1: is just the The whole farm is just eerily quiet.
Speaker 1: Everything's just kind of there's not a sign of life.
Speaker 1: There's a dog barking that the grouper dog was a
Speaker 1: Pomeranian actually, and this is the time of Pomeranians were
Speaker 1: a little bigger and stockier and uh, but barked nonetheless
Speaker 1: just as just like any other pomeranian then. And stock here, yeah,
Speaker 1: German stock. And the Pomeranian was barking its head off.
Speaker 1: It was well known to be pretty just kind of
Speaker 1: a jerky little watchdog, but it was good for that.
Speaker 1: But what was odd was that it was tied up
Speaker 1: in the far in the barn. This is a house
Speaker 1: dog that the groupers caps. That was a little weird,
Speaker 1: but otherwise it seemed okay. The horses in the other
Speaker 1: livestock seemed okay and well fed or whatever. And then
Speaker 1: somebody looked a little further into the barn and they
Speaker 1: made what would be the first of a couple really
Speaker 1: really gruesome discoveries. They found some of the groupers bludgeoned
Speaker 1: to death. That's right, Andreas, the papa, daughter of Victoria,
Speaker 1: and dear old set Celia the granddaughter in the barn,
Speaker 1: stacked one on top of the other, bled to death,
Speaker 1: bludgeoned to death only in the head area, largely in
Speaker 1: the head area, like the the attacks were. The attacks
Speaker 1: were definitely concentrated on their head and face. Yeah uh.
Speaker 1: And they were covered with hay um, not completely covered.
Speaker 1: There are pictures of this, by the way, did you
Speaker 1: look at the crime scene creepy? Oh yeah, and see
Speaker 1: them in the barn with the hay very graphic, So
Speaker 1: be aware if you're googling that right now. Uh, so
Speaker 1: they were they were dead and had been dead for
Speaker 1: a little while, which we'll get to. Uh. They go
Speaker 1: inside and they find poor little Joseph, just horrific two
Speaker 1: year old was found dead, also bludge into death in
Speaker 1: his cot in mom's bedroom. And then the maid on
Speaker 1: her first day on the job, was killed in her
Speaker 1: bed as well. And um, andreas his wife said, Zelia,
Speaker 1: she was in the barn as well. Oh did I
Speaker 1: miss that? Okay, So four of them in the barn,
Speaker 1: two in the house, all killed in the same manner,
Speaker 1: and all covered up in some way, whether it was
Speaker 1: hay or sheets or clothing. Um, which is a weird
Speaker 1: thing to do. Yeah, it's very weird. Although it would, um,
Speaker 1: it would become evident why in a little bit once
Speaker 1: they started questioning the neighbors. So the day after the
Speaker 1: bodies were found, uh, doctor Dr Johann Ar Mueller performed
Speaker 1: the autopsies in the barn, and he decided that what
Speaker 1: had been used as a murder weapon was a type
Speaker 1: of pick axe called the matic um. Although the murder
Speaker 1: weapon wasn't found for another year actually after that, um,
Speaker 1: the doctor concluded quite rightly that it was a magic
Speaker 1: that had been used. And if you've ever seen you know,
Speaker 1: like a pick axe, but the other end is like
Speaker 1: blunt and wide, that's a matic. And whoever killed the
Speaker 1: groupers and the maid did it with that, which is horrific.
Speaker 1: Even worse than that, though, they found um in Zelia's
Speaker 1: hands clenched in her fists tufts of her own hair,
Speaker 1: so there was evidence that she had survived, for they
Speaker 1: think several hours after she was attacked and watched her
Speaker 1: other family members attacked in and pulled out her own
Speaker 1: hair for whatever reason, I let'ld say that was a
Speaker 1: good enough reason. Victoria showed signs of strangulation, but they
Speaker 1: determined that was not the cause of death, and by
Speaker 1: all accounts, everyone else died pretty much immediately upon receiving
Speaker 1: that pick axe to the head. Um Most of the
Speaker 1: victims were in bed clothes, except for Victoria and to
Speaker 1: Celia there were in the regular clothes, which seemed to
Speaker 1: indicate that its probably happened in the evening. Some people
Speaker 1: were already getting ready for bed, some people had not yet.
Speaker 1: And they also think that the the groupers were lured
Speaker 1: one by one out to the barn kind of Scooby
Speaker 1: Doo fashion. Yeah, because clearly when't all them killed at once,
Speaker 1: because there was no signs of struggle, like uh yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe one person went out and died and then then
Speaker 1: the other person was like it hadn't been back for
Speaker 1: a while, and then they died, and then again and again. Horrific,
Speaker 1: So there was some other, Um, there was weirdness beyond that,
Speaker 1: beyond these the just the horrific nous of the crime
Speaker 1: and the fact that the bodies were covered up. Um,
Speaker 1: this was April fourth, right, they figured out that the
Speaker 1: bodies had been killed or the people have been killed
Speaker 1: on March thirty one, that was the last time anybody
Speaker 1: had seen them alive. But the neighbors said, well, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, that's really weird because like we saw signs
Speaker 1: of life coming from the farm all weekend. There was
Speaker 1: smoke coming out of the chimney the whole weekend. The
Speaker 1: the live stock has been fed. The dogs clearly eaten,
Speaker 1: Like if if they hadn't been fed or cared for
Speaker 1: in four or five days, they'd be showing signs of
Speaker 1: it by now. But you can tell that they they were.
Speaker 1: They were tended to like this whole time. So what
Speaker 1: is that even the house itself, it showed evidence that
Speaker 1: someone had eaten a meal there recently, were more recently
Speaker 1: than four or five days ago. Uh, the bed looked
Speaker 1: like it had been slept in since that time. Uh.
Speaker 1: And like we mentioned earlier that Pomeranian was tied up. Um,
Speaker 1: I saw different accounts on whether the dog was somewhat
Speaker 1: injured or not. Um, so let's just say the dog
Speaker 1: might have been hurt some but ultimately was fine and
Speaker 1: like you know, wasn't killed or anything. Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was not injured, I think, right. So what this
Speaker 1: all signs point to the fact that someone killed this
Speaker 1: family and then hung out there for a few days.
Speaker 1: But even even more stirring is the idea that the
Speaker 1: person who killed them may have been the one who
Speaker 1: left the footprints and stayed in their house waiting to
Speaker 1: kill them, perhaps killed them and then stayed in the
Speaker 1: house for a few days after taking care of everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just living the living the life. Very strange. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: the police started looking around pretty quickly for suspects and realizing, um,
Speaker 1: well first we got to go with motive, I think
Speaker 1: is what they said to themselves. Sure, like occasionally it
Speaker 1: happens that there's a vagrant that comes through and kills
Speaker 1: for money and robs and uh. The thing they found
Speaker 1: out was that there was a little bit of fold
Speaker 1: and money taken from the bodies, but there was a
Speaker 1: lot of valuable jewelry and gold coins and other money
Speaker 1: in the house that was not taken. So things weren't
Speaker 1: quite adding up on the robbery front. Yeah, and especially
Speaker 1: if somebody the person who killed them, if they were
Speaker 1: planning on robbing them, they had four days to look
Speaker 1: around and amuse themselves by robbing the whole house blind.
Speaker 1: They certainly wouldn't leave this this stuff behind. Um. They
Speaker 1: also found out in the investigation that Victoria Um had
Speaker 1: emptied her bank account and had left a donation to
Speaker 1: the church, But there was also a substantial amount that
Speaker 1: just wasn't accounted for. Who knows what that was never
Speaker 1: turned up lost of time, So robbery was kind of
Speaker 1: discarded as a as a um A motive. But another
Speaker 1: one would come to light soon. We'll talk about that
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Speaker 1: So to me, it's this guy. Yeah, I think so. Uh,
Speaker 1: we'll go ahead and talk about this dude. There was
Speaker 1: a neighboring man, a neighbor as you might call it,
Speaker 1: for a neighboring man. You're a normal human, Hello, neighboring man,
Speaker 1: how are you today? If you're all means, if you're
Speaker 1: a professional broadcaster, you should say neighboring man? Right. Uh
Speaker 1: So his name is laurenz Schlittenbauer and he was a
Speaker 1: like I said, lived nearby. He was a suitor for
Speaker 1: Victoria and she had always said, Uh, this guy's who
Speaker 1: knocked me up, you know Yo's father. And like you
Speaker 1: said earlier, he was like, for a little while, I
Speaker 1: think he claimed paternity. But then when it's when he
Speaker 1: found out what that meant he had to pay for that,
Speaker 1: he's like, that's an English way. I didn't understand exactly
Speaker 1: what is what is his paternity? So he backed off
Speaker 1: of that claim, and later it was emerged emerged that Um,
Speaker 1: she was about to sue him for a paternity when
Speaker 1: before this murder took place. Right, So some people say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: that probably set him off because he was remarried and
Speaker 1: had a kid that had died sadly by that point,
Speaker 1: so he didn't want this kind of scandal on his household. Sure,
Speaker 1: and he didn't want to make the payments, right, especially
Speaker 1: if he wasn't an under percent Sure it was his kid.
Speaker 1: So if you look at the Schlittenbauer guy, some really
Speaker 1: weird stuff starts to emerge. In addition to that motive
Speaker 1: of not wanting to pay alimony for a little yosef,
Speaker 1: the way he behaved um in the immediate wake of
Speaker 1: the discovery of these murders was very bizarre. He was
Speaker 1: part of the original search party that searched the house.
Speaker 1: Suspicious first thing, Yeah, because a lot of criminals like
Speaker 1: to do that. They like to go to the scene
Speaker 1: of the crime as part of the search party. Right,
Speaker 1: based on TV they did. Everything I learned from the
Speaker 1: Flintstones points to this guy being suspicious. Uh. He also
Speaker 1: um immediately started disturbing the crime scene, right, Like he
Speaker 1: unstacked the stacked bodies. And when he did it, apparently
Speaker 1: there were a couple of other guys there, and the
Speaker 1: other guys were real shaken up by just being in
Speaker 1: the presence of these horribly mangled bodies. Apparently, Schlittenbauer was
Speaker 1: totally fine handling them. He's like, I got the head,
Speaker 1: you get the legs. Uh. One of the men was
Speaker 1: quoted as saying he disturbed everything there was to disturb,
Speaker 1: so he had no qualms about going in there and
Speaker 1: just having his way with that crime scene. Apparently he
Speaker 1: was super familiar with the house itself. Um, which isn't
Speaker 1: necessarily a It doesn't necessarily Yeah, if if, especially if
Speaker 1: he was you know, dating Victoria, Yeah, well true, I
Speaker 1: would call this part of the body of evidence though,
Speaker 1: so he apparently went into the house from the barns,
Speaker 1: which meant he knew they were connected. He unlocked the
Speaker 1: front door from the inside, which is like did he
Speaker 1: have a key or did he know where the key was? Uh?
Speaker 1: Remember the missing keys? Uh. And then he also apparently
Speaker 1: knew the maid's room handle was unusual and he had
Speaker 1: to lift it up to enter and not press it down,
Speaker 1: And apparently he just went right to it and lifted
Speaker 1: it up. Um. Again, maybe he spent some time over
Speaker 1: there with Victoria and knew these things. Like a lot
Speaker 1: of this can be explained away, um in some ways.
Speaker 1: They also said that the dog went nuts when he
Speaker 1: was around. Yeah, Like that's him exactly, the wild You take,
Speaker 1: take or leave that. That seems like local folklore to me.
Speaker 1: The dog and he said it was because he had
Speaker 1: blood all over issues from uh, disrupting the crime scene,
Speaker 1: and the dog was like barking at that, which, by
Speaker 1: the way, the two other searchers who were with him
Speaker 1: while he was disturbing the crime scene asked him what
Speaker 1: he was doing, and he said, he's looking for his son. YEA.
Speaker 1: A couple of things weird about all this right. So,
Speaker 1: if he's disturbing the crime scene to cover his tracks.
Speaker 1: If he was the killer and the killer stayed behind
Speaker 1: for several days, he had all the time in the
Speaker 1: world to cover up his tracks. Why would he do
Speaker 1: it in the presence of a couple of fellow searchers. Weird?
Speaker 1: And then secondly, if he was the killer and he
Speaker 1: was not trying to act um unaware, why would he
Speaker 1: be looking for his son and the stack of bodies
Speaker 1: when he knew full well his son was in his
Speaker 1: room in the house. I guess this guy seemed like
Speaker 1: he was not very good at misdirection. Uh, he had
Speaker 1: no alibi for the night, apparently, his family said, And
Speaker 1: this is where it gets I don't want I want
Speaker 1: to say obvious. Maybe the obvious, it gets really suspicious
Speaker 1: to me. His family said, Oh, no, he's the night
Speaker 1: they were murdered. He's spent the night in the barn
Speaker 1: because he knew that there was weirdness going on over
Speaker 1: there and he was looking out for burglars. So he
Speaker 1: spent the night in the barn that night. Okay, so
Speaker 1: he spent the night in the grouper's barn, is what
Speaker 1: what they're saying? No, no, no, their own barn. So um.
Speaker 1: He apparently though had asthma, so that people were like,
Speaker 1: why would he spend the night in the barn if
Speaker 1: he had asthma? Smarty right, but that was his alibi,
Speaker 1: which is pretty weak. Uh. He only lived fifty meters away,
Speaker 1: which I think that's like nineteen miles. I'm just kidding,
Speaker 1: what is it. It's like three football fields, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I looked up the conversis it's not too far. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: So he could have he could have been the one
Speaker 1: coming back and forth. Like the fact that that there
Speaker 1: were footprints leading one way doesn't to me signified that
Speaker 1: someone spent six months hiding there. It could have been he.
Speaker 1: He could have come and gone as he pleased and
Speaker 1: then not been like away from his house too long
Speaker 1: that anyone noticed. Sure, and maybe he walked in the
Speaker 1: same footprints. Maybe he did do the Danny. Maybe you know,
Speaker 1: he was the one who originated the Danny. He was
Speaker 1: Danny before Danny was even born, that's true. Or maybe
Speaker 1: he was Danny. Oh man, this this keeps getting and
Speaker 1: the more we make up about it. That's true. The
Speaker 1: other thing that he said that I thought was, I mean,
Speaker 1: this is just I don't even know if I believe this. Apparently,
Speaker 1: many years later, uh, when the murder was talked about
Speaker 1: in like the bars and the beer gardens, he would
Speaker 1: talk about it in the first person. When he speculated
Speaker 1: about the killings. I don't buy that necessarily, don't either.
Speaker 1: That sounds like something that people would make up in
Speaker 1: a pub. He used to say, I killed them. No
Speaker 1: one ever cared. Sure, I guess, so that was he
Speaker 1: was the main living suspect. There was another suspect who
Speaker 1: was brought back from the dead to be paraded around
Speaker 1: as a suspect in this case. Yeah, not literally in
Speaker 1: some ways, but no, not literally. This guy's name was
Speaker 1: Carl Gabriel and he used to be married to Victoria.
Speaker 1: But he died in World War One in the trenches. Um.
Speaker 1: And the reason that he was brought back as a
Speaker 1: possible suspect is that people said, well, his body was
Speaker 1: never shipped back home. We don't actually know that he
Speaker 1: really did die. Maybe maybe follow me on, this is
Speaker 1: what they said. Maybe he came back to reclaim his
Speaker 1: wife found out that she had had an incestuous relationship.
Speaker 1: He snaps, he kills everybody. Yeah, I don't buy this
Speaker 1: at all. Well, no, they started the police, I think
Speaker 1: in the Munich police department really apparently went to town
Speaker 1: trying to get to the bottom of his murder over
Speaker 1: the years. Yeah. And one of the other things that
Speaker 1: pointed to him, supposedly was that in World War two,
Speaker 1: another whole war later, uh, supposedly some people came forward
Speaker 1: and said, uh, you know what, we met this Russian
Speaker 1: German speaking Russian soldier that used to claim to be
Speaker 1: the Hinokifet killer, and we think that that's Carl, right,
Speaker 1: I guess, Okay, Yeah. The thing is the Munich police
Speaker 1: apparently spoke to some of the men who were there
Speaker 1: when he died and they described me and died. People
Speaker 1: witnessed his his death. Even though his body didn't make
Speaker 1: it back, it wasn't recovered, people saw him die, so
Speaker 1: it was verified that he was died to I guess
Speaker 1: at least the satisfaction of the police. And that was
Speaker 1: a pretty weak link anyway, because supposedly the reason that
Speaker 1: he fled for the war was to h it was
Speaker 1: to fake his death, not why he fled for the war,
Speaker 1: but that he faked his death to get out of
Speaker 1: the marriage. So why would he get fake his death,
Speaker 1: get out of the marriage, come back years later and
Speaker 1: killed them all. Great, great question, Chuck. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: they answer that is he wouldn't or maybe it's the
Speaker 1: perfect crime. Yeah, it's so nonsensical. He's listening right now.
Speaker 1: Last it's the perfect crime. Uh? What else people talking about? Paranormal?
Speaker 1: You know that it was ghosts and these strange noises
Speaker 1: in this mysterious newspaper and all these footprints. Is because
Speaker 1: there was some supernatural force out to get the family. Well,
Speaker 1: that would account for the ghost say that you could
Speaker 1: say that accounts for everything. That's why it's bunk. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Um No, that one's not not a not a big one.
Speaker 1: Although the Munich police very early on decapitated, had the
Speaker 1: family decapitated, and their schools were sent for friends analysis,
Speaker 1: and we're handled by clairvoyant who apparently was not able
Speaker 1: to come to any conclusions about their faith or the killer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and those bodies were buried headless, because those heads eventually
Speaker 1: went missing. Apparently they kept them in the Nuremberg I
Speaker 1: guess in there one of their city government buildings, and
Speaker 1: it was leveled in World War two. I think that's
Speaker 1: where the skulls were lost. They think that was mixed
Speaker 1: them with the other skulls. Is either that or the
Speaker 1: ghost they did it. So for the cops part, they
Speaker 1: interviewed over a hundred suspects over the years, including the
Speaker 1: clear killer. To me um the neighboring man, Lawrence Schlittenbauer.
Speaker 1: I just think it all points to him. He apparently
Speaker 1: years later two was like God did the right thing
Speaker 1: with his family, like they were awful people. And he
Speaker 1: didn't say except for my possible son, the two year old.
Speaker 1: He said, all of them they deserved it. So it
Speaker 1: just kind of seems obvious to me that it was him,
Speaker 1: because there was someone stayed there, someone knew the house,
Speaker 1: someone took great care covering the bodies. It just doesn't
Speaker 1: seem like a random burglary. No, that is a very
Speaker 1: bizarre thing to do to stick around afterward unless you
Speaker 1: feel like you're within your own safe zone. And if
Speaker 1: you lived three and fifty meters away, yeah, maybe you
Speaker 1: would feel safe there, Yeah, that you could retreat very quickly, yeah,
Speaker 1: or know that, like I know, no one comes by here,
Speaker 1: whereas if it was a burglary, they probably wouldn't feel
Speaker 1: so comfy hanging out for days on end. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, it probably was him, but no one will
Speaker 1: ever be able to prove it one way or another. No,
Speaker 1: they didn't have any hard evidence. No, and and the
Speaker 1: evidence they did take, a lot of it was lost. Um.
Speaker 1: This is nineteen twenty two, so a lot of they
Speaker 1: a lot of forensic techniques hadn't been invented yet. It
Speaker 1: was still being developed swear in the world. So in
Speaker 1: two thousand seven, UM a police academy in Munich got
Speaker 1: their hands on the case. Some students did the Gutenberg
Speaker 1: Police Academy, the first in feld Brooke. I'm just throwing
Speaker 1: Brooke after you know, why not let's throw in another syllable.
Speaker 1: Um that students from that police academy investigated this crime
Speaker 1: and in Germany like it's pretty this is an enormously
Speaker 1: famous crime. Huge there, it's there, Jack the Ripper. For sure.
Speaker 1: It will never be solved, it's not possible being solved.
Speaker 1: And this is the conclusion from those students at the
Speaker 1: first in feld Brook police Academy. They said, we think
Speaker 1: we know who it is, we're not. Since this is
Speaker 1: unsolvable and it will never be able to be proven,
Speaker 1: we're not going to name the person because they still
Speaker 1: have relatives alive, but you can't guess it's the one
Speaker 1: living suspect that anyone's ever really raised. It was helping him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they didn't say that. That was my conclusion of their conclusions.
Speaker 1: And then they said, thank you Police Academy for your findings.
Speaker 1: And where's the guy that makes all the funny noises
Speaker 1: in his mouth? You know? Steve Guttenberg follows us on Twitter?
Speaker 1: No way, yeah? Really yeah at Steve gut buck really yeah,
Speaker 1: and he um is in like a Sharknado esque movie.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what what the name of it is,
Speaker 1: but he's in it with the guy who does the voices.
Speaker 1: Oh really, uh poison. His name Michael Something makes Michael something.
Speaker 1: I will say that, And I think I mentioned this
Speaker 1: on the show. Maybe that's why he follows us. Steve
Speaker 1: Guttenberg was in one of the very best episodes of
Speaker 1: one of my favorite TV shows, Party Down and Uh
Speaker 1: did you ever see that? Joe Boy? It was good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was really really funny. Had the great Adam Scott
Speaker 1: and Lizzie Kaplan and one of my hero os, Ken
Speaker 1: Marino from the State and Martin star Mega. Mallally was great. Well,
Speaker 1: they were caterers, like cater waiters all actors and writers
Speaker 1: and stuff in Hollywood, and each episode was its own
Speaker 1: thing on catering event. And they had one where they
Speaker 1: showed up to Steve Guttenberg's house for his birthday party
Speaker 1: and he pulled up and he's like, oh, Man, like
Speaker 1: I forgot to cancel. I really had the party a
Speaker 1: couple of days ago with my friends. He's like, but
Speaker 1: since you're all here, why don't we just have a party.
Speaker 1: And so the waiters end up having a party with
Speaker 1: Guttenberg and he like does some scene acting with them
Speaker 1: and give them great wine, and he has great art
Speaker 1: and he's just really really funny in it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: can imagine a dude. He seems so awesome. After watching
Speaker 1: this episode, I was like, man, Goods is the best.
Speaker 1: And I think they called them goots in the show
Speaker 1: even this. Yeah, anyway, good shout shout out to party down,
Speaker 1: great great show and Steve Gutenberg. Yeah, uh, do you
Speaker 1: have a listener? Meal? Was this too spooky? For one?
Speaker 1: He did great work on that bibleh Yeah, I gotta
Speaker 1: listener to mail. Okay, Well, if you want to know
Speaker 1: more about hinter kaifek um. You can go listen to
Speaker 1: stuff you missed in history class. I think they did
Speaker 1: an episode that covered it as well. Uh you can
Speaker 1: search Mysterious universe dot org and all sorts of other
Speaker 1: places for it. And since I said, uh, hinter kaifek,
Speaker 1: it's time for listening mail. Before we do listener mail,
Speaker 1: we want to give a very special thank you to
Speaker 1: uh Margaret and Mike in Jacksonville, Florida. Yeah, thanks guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they stepped forward and helped Jerry out in a big
Speaker 1: way as the stuff you should know Army is uh
Speaker 1: often does. And uh, it's all we're gonna say other
Speaker 1: than big, big thanks to you guys for helping out
Speaker 1: for real? How about that? Yeah? All right, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: call this listener mail squirrel shooting. Hey, guys, been listening
Speaker 1: for about a year. I love the show. I was
Speaker 1: listening to the Polar Bears episode and I stopped dead
Speaker 1: in my tracks when Chuck told the story about shooting
Speaker 1: a squirrel. When I was about thirteen, I too, thought
Speaker 1: I was a tough guy and wanted to hunt animals.
Speaker 1: My grandparents lived on some land and agreed to let
Speaker 1: my cousin I shoot a squirrel as long as we
Speaker 1: agreed to skin it and eat it. They're like building
Speaker 1: that redo it. Yeah, you gotta love those depression eary grandparents, like, sure,
Speaker 1: skin and need it. It's all yours. I have envisioned
Speaker 1: him as hippies, like passing a joint, like joking about
Speaker 1: how stupid their grandkids were. Wow, depression eary, Sure, I
Speaker 1: see that one too, all right, So we were very excited.
Speaker 1: We dressed up in camo, walked to property and because uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I got a dress in camout squirrels. H
Speaker 1: eventually found a squirrel in a tree. I should know
Speaker 1: that we were using a pellet gun, not like a
Speaker 1: real bullet gun. I took the first shot and hit
Speaker 1: the squirrel fell from the tree, and much to my chagrin,
Speaker 1: he did not die. He made a noise I hope
Speaker 1: to never hear again. It was that awful. I had
Speaker 1: to hand the gun to my cousin. I just could
Speaker 1: not do it and take the other shot. We ended
Speaker 1: up skinning it and needing it, though he said it
Speaker 1: tastes like sick and so why bother? Uh, like we
Speaker 1: promised that we would do. Uh. That was the last
Speaker 1: time I considered killing an animal for sport. I've always
Speaker 1: loved animals, so I'm not sure where this urge came
Speaker 1: from to begin with. Actually run a small online candle
Speaker 1: company now that sells dog fame candles. Uh. They donate
Speaker 1: ten percent of all profits to animal shelters and rescues.
Speaker 1: And so, Stephen, I am going to plug your company
Speaker 1: over my wife's candle company even which is Mama Back
Speaker 1: and Body. Uh. And you can go to www. Dot
Speaker 1: Knox Favorite k n o x s Knox's favorite dot
Speaker 1: com and Knox was their dog in the company after
Speaker 1: that's sweet. These are soy candles. I looked it up there.
Speaker 1: Good from dog. Uh No, Nathan Dog. Thanks again for
Speaker 1: everything you do your daily listen for me. I hope
Speaker 1: to can hope you continue for years to come. That
Speaker 1: is Stephen, Stephen, way to go, Stephen, Thank you for that.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you learning us share your horrible story with everybody. Uh.
Speaker 1: If you have a horrible story you want to share.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I mean I regret saying that. You can
Speaker 1: tweet to us that that's y SK podcast. You can
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