WEBVTT - Inside the India-Canada Crisis

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim

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<v Speaker 1>Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Ari Alstedter he is Canada real estate reporter at Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 2>News and he joins us from our Toronto bureau. Ari,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's funny, not funny. We've been talking about

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<v Speaker 2>this story a lot in the newsroom because it really

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<v Speaker 2>seems to potentially have some significant consequences for how we

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<v Speaker 2>look at India geopolitically and just a lot of other

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<v Speaker 2>serious issues. But again, relaid it out briefly, but tell

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<v Speaker 2>us about, you know, maybe even the conversations you had

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<v Speaker 2>with Jill Webber, the editor of the magazine, about why

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<v Speaker 2>we had to do something on this story.

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<v Speaker 3>Right. Well, like you said earlier in the program, I

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<v Speaker 3>think for an international audience outside of Canada, this really

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<v Speaker 3>has been flying under the radar. But that really under

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<v Speaker 3>sells how important it is, because, as you say, India

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<v Speaker 3>was really looked to, or has been being looked to by,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, Western democratic countries as a potential democratic counterweight

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<v Speaker 3>to the rising power of China, a billion person country

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<v Speaker 3>that is in Asia that Western democracies could look to

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<v Speaker 3>to sort of represent their values in the region. And

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<v Speaker 3>champion those values in the region. The problem with that

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<v Speaker 3>for the last few years is that even as Western

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<v Speaker 3>countries like the US, France, the UK and Canada have

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<v Speaker 3>been trying to cultivate India as a friend, the government

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<v Speaker 3>of Prime Minisner under Modi has taken a liberal turn

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<v Speaker 3>back home. Opposition politicians, journalists, minority communities have said that

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<v Speaker 3>mister Modi and his nationalists Hindu nationalist DJP government has

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<v Speaker 3>cultivated a klim where speaking out speaking against the government

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<v Speaker 3>line is a risky thing and could incur legal penalties, harassment,

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<v Speaker 3>all sorts of unpleasantness from the state to try to

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<v Speaker 3>induce people not to do this. Now. Expediencies sort of

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<v Speaker 3>allowed or demanded that these western countries turn a blind

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<v Speaker 3>eye to this for as long as it was happening

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<v Speaker 3>in India. But the murder of a Canadian citizen on

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<v Speaker 3>Canadian soil is something Priminis gusture so couldn't look away from.

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<v Speaker 3>And that puts his allies in the US and the

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<v Speaker 3>UK and France and the other countries in an awkward

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<v Speaker 3>situation too, because on the one hand, you know, killing

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<v Speaker 3>each other's citizens is really an unspoken rule. There's really

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<v Speaker 3>an unspoken taboo against this among all these Western countries,

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<v Speaker 3>India violated this. So what do you do with that

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<v Speaker 3>as you want to continue to cultivate India as a friend.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's a really good, really good context for the

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<v Speaker 1>background and the backdrop of this assassination earlier this year,

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<v Speaker 1>back in June. Let's go back to who Hardeep sing

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<v Speaker 1>Najar is or.

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<v Speaker 3>Was, well right, He was a Canadian citizen. He owned

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<v Speaker 3>a plumbing business in Surrey, British Columbia. He had a

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<v Speaker 3>wife and two adult sons. He was also president of

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<v Speaker 3>his gurdwara, which is the Sikh temple. But most relevant

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<v Speaker 3>is he was a vocal supporter of as you say, Khalistan,

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<v Speaker 3>this movement to establish a Sikh homeland and Punjab. And

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<v Speaker 3>most important, he was one of the leaders of this

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<v Speaker 3>activist effort to stage unofficial referendums in the Sikh diaspora

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<v Speaker 3>around the world on Kalistan, putting votes to people who

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<v Speaker 3>are part of the Sikh community. Do you believe there

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<v Speaker 3>should be an independent Seak homeland, an independent Punjab, yes

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<v Speaker 3>or no? These these votes. The group that put these

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<v Speaker 3>on that that mister Niner was a part of, seeks

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<v Speaker 3>for Justice have staged these votes in sea communities around

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<v Speaker 3>the world, including the UK, Austria, Australia, Switzerland, others. And actually,

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<v Speaker 3>in April of this year, mister Niner got up during

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<v Speaker 3>a Sikh festival in front of his gurdwara and said

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<v Speaker 3>that the referendum would now be coming a British Columbia.

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<v Speaker 3>A few months later, he was killed.

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<v Speaker 2>And a you know what, I oh, I'm sorry, please

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<v Speaker 2>go ahead.

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<v Speaker 3>Well what I thought was just going to yeah, please,

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<v Speaker 3>my apologies. Well, what I thought was.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting what you said at the at the beginning. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to go I'm going to go for a second,

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<v Speaker 2>just because because what I think was interesting. No, but

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<v Speaker 2>because we really have been talking about this in the newsroom,

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<v Speaker 2>because it has gotten buried among so many other headlines.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think about what you said at the beginning.

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<v Speaker 2>India has been looked at as a democratic counterweight to

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<v Speaker 2>the rise of China. You know, we're living in an

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<v Speaker 2>error where geopolitics and I feel like geopolitical relationships are

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<v Speaker 2>being you know, rethought or you know, and we're we're

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<v Speaker 2>definitely seeing increased pushback against China. And so what I'm

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<v Speaker 2>wondering is, as you did, this story and looked at

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<v Speaker 2>what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>To him.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, what are you finding out about what's going

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<v Speaker 2>on in the Indian government? Because Prime Minister Modi has

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<v Speaker 2>said the allegations against him in connection with this or

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<v Speaker 2>his government absurd, right, and he calls certain individuals terrorists.

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<v Speaker 2>But what have you been finding out your reporting? As

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<v Speaker 2>again we increasingly look to India as maybe that's the

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<v Speaker 2>partner of the next big partner for the world.

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<v Speaker 3>What have you found out, well, our colleagues in India,

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<v Speaker 3>have you know, looked into what the reaction to this

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<v Speaker 3>story has been in the country, and interestingly it's produced

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<v Speaker 3>a kind of rally around the flag effect. Right wing

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<v Speaker 3>media is very powerful in India and many of the media,

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<v Speaker 3>in part out of this sort of broader climate that

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<v Speaker 3>pre Minister Modi and the BJP have cultivated, many media

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<v Speaker 3>have fronted more right wing voices in their coverage, and

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<v Speaker 3>these kind of commentators have been very much denouncing Canada,

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<v Speaker 3>proclaiming Hardep signature as a terrorist and saying that the

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<v Speaker 3>killing was justified, pointing to the US saying the US

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<v Speaker 3>conducts drone strikes on people it considers terrorists in other countries.

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<v Speaker 3>Why shouldn't India be able to do the same. India

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<v Speaker 3>labeled Hardeep signature as a terrorist and said that he

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<v Speaker 3>was involved in a plot to kill a Hindu priest

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<v Speaker 3>in Punjab. It earlier accused him of having of leading

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<v Speaker 3>Sikh activists or seeks into terrorist training camps in British Columbia.

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<v Speaker 3>The thing is, by their own admission, the Indian government,

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<v Speaker 3>from our sources, from our discussions with them, brought that

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<v Speaker 3>latter terrorist training camp allegation to Canadian police. Canadian police

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<v Speaker 3>checked it out and determined that they were just going

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<v Speaker 3>to a show range outside of Surrey. The community where

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<v Speaker 3>they were going. The mayor, when he got wind of this,

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<v Speaker 3>spoke out and said it was absurd that there was

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<v Speaker 3>a training camp nearby, any kind of terrorist training camp nearby.

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<v Speaker 3>So the issue with a lot of the allegations community

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<v Speaker 3>the Indian government seems to be proof. And also that

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<v Speaker 3>if there was proof, and if there was strong evidence,

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<v Speaker 3>there is an extradition process. Charges can be brought in

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<v Speaker 3>India and you can apply for extradition. Canada is a

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<v Speaker 3>place where there is rule of law, unlike the places

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<v Speaker 3>where the US has conducted his drone strikes. Yemen, Somalia

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<v Speaker 3>very hard to extra write someone out of Yemen. For Canada,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not such a big problem if it meets the

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<v Speaker 3>standards of evidence for Canadian law. The Indians seem to

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<v Speaker 3>don't make much of this argument, which is essentially what

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<v Speaker 3>the Canadian government has been saying and deem or accuse

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<v Speaker 3>the Canadians of ignoring their complaints about the activities of

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<v Speaker 3>people like Heartyep signature and just not doing anything about it.

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<v Speaker 3>And so our sources and the government say that that

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<v Speaker 3>prompted them to take matters into their own hands, or

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<v Speaker 3>at least decide that Nigure was a problem that had

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<v Speaker 3>to be addressed.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, what do we know about the actual crime that occurred,

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<v Speaker 1>the assassination here who? What do we know about who

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<v Speaker 1>exactly was behind it and how are people being held accountable?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, we don't know who's behind it. What we have

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<v Speaker 3>is the Canadian allegations or the allegation by the Canadian

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<v Speaker 3>government that India, the government of India, was behind it.

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<v Speaker 3>We do know details of the crime itself as it occurred.

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<v Speaker 3>We know that it was a Sunday evening in Surrey

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<v Speaker 3>Father's Day in June. Hardep sing Jar at around eight pm,

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<v Speaker 3>was leaving the Gurdwara after a day of working there

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<v Speaker 3>as the president giving his Sunday speech and the like.

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<v Speaker 3>He was driving out sort of the back exit of

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<v Speaker 3>the Gridwara parking lot. As he was driving Goodwara security

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<v Speaker 3>cameras capture a serious white sedan seemed to start moving

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<v Speaker 3>as soon as he did, pulled in front of him

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<v Speaker 3>on the road out and then stopped right before the

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<v Speaker 3>exit of the Gridwara merged into a larger road when

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<v Speaker 3>that car stopped at forced hardiep Sing the Jersey stop

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<v Speaker 3>and then two people in black, two men in black

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<v Speaker 3>emerged from the south of the road and fired into

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<v Speaker 3>the driver's seat window of Niger's truck. The firing continued

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<v Speaker 3>for around five seconds, maybe a bit longer. As soon

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<v Speaker 3>as the firing started that that white car pulled out

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<v Speaker 3>of the out of the gridir and drove away. And

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<v Speaker 3>then the two gunmen stopped firing and they started running.

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<v Speaker 3>Witnesses saw them running, and witnesses who I spoke to

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<v Speaker 3>three people pursued them, followed them into a park nearby.

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<v Speaker 3>One says that one of the gunmen they were justsed

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<v Speaker 3>all in black. They had black hoodies on, and they

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<v Speaker 3>appeared to be concealing holding something in their pockets in

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<v Speaker 3>the front hoodie pocket and one of the gunmen pulled

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<v Speaker 3>a gun out and threatened one of the pursuers, then

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<v Speaker 3>proceeded deeper into the park. The pursuers, after hesitating twenty

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<v Speaker 3>seconds or so, continued and caught up just in time

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<v Speaker 3>to see the two gunmen, still masked, get into a

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<v Speaker 3>silver sedan that was parked in a cul de sac

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<v Speaker 3>right at the end of the park and then drive away.

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<v Speaker 3>And so that's what we know. The police have released

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of disinformation. The white sedan is still a mystery.

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<v Speaker 3>The police identified the silver car as a two thousand

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<v Speaker 3>and eight Toyota Corolla and asked for information of that

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<v Speaker 3>identifying the other the driver that as another suspect. And

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<v Speaker 3>that's pretty much where it starts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, unfortunately we have to run. There is so much

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<v Speaker 2>rich detail in this story, and it reminds me of

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<v Speaker 2>the complicated relationship that the world has had which Jane

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<v Speaker 2>over the last twenty thirty years. And now you wonder

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<v Speaker 2>if it's just a repeat with India. Ari Alstetter, thank

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<v Speaker 2>you so much.