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Speaker 1: It's time to refresh your yard. During Spring Backyard Days

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Speaker 1: dring lights that bring it all together. Shop Spring Backyard

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Speaker 1: Days for seven days at the Home Depot now through

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Speaker 1: May sixth. Exclusion Splassy homebbo dot COM's last price match

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Speaker 1: for details.

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Speaker 2: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past.

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Speaker 3: And the price leaves that someone out of the past,

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Speaker 3: we can enter and take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 1: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 1: is not through with us.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to the Next Picture Show, a movie of the

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Speaker 4: Week podcast devoted to a classic film and how it's

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Speaker 4: shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Tasha Robinson

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Speaker 4: here with Genevieve Koski.

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Speaker 5: Scott Tobias, Keith Phipps here on.

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Speaker 4: The Next Picture. We believe that no film exists in

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Speaker 4: a vacuum, and that all culture is more interesting in context.

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Speaker 4: So every other week we get together to talk over

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Speaker 4: a classic film and consider how it relates to a

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Speaker 4: current movie. This week, we're going to look at a

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Speaker 4: new science fiction sequel about androids in humanity and see

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Speaker 4: how it stacks up to the original. But first, somebody

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Speaker 4: should do something about that tortoise lying in the corner

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Speaker 4: of the studio over there, Genevieve. It's thrashing around, trying

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Speaker 4: to turn itself over, but it can't, not without your help.

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Speaker 4: But you're not helping. Why is that, Genevieve, Why aren't

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Speaker 4: you helping?

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Speaker 6: Well, for one thing, all my turtle maintenance time goes

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Speaker 6: to my own pet turtle at home. But for another thing,

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Speaker 6: we're trying to record here, Tasha, that tortoise is going

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Speaker 6: to be fine for the next hour. So while we

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Speaker 6: consider Denivill Leneuve's Blade Runner twenty forty nine and how

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Speaker 6: it takes up the story Ridley Scott's Blade Runners started

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Speaker 6: back in nineteen eighty two. Scott's film, a heavily rewritten

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Speaker 6: adaptation of Philip K. Dick's novel Do Android's Stream of

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Speaker 6: Electric Sheep, deals with the far future world of twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 6: where artificial people called replicants, have been created to work

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Speaker 6: in hazardous conditions and off world colonies. Replicants are banned

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Speaker 6: on Earth, so when some of them rebel in return,

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Speaker 6: android hunters called blade Runners are dispatched to hunt them

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Speaker 6: down and quote unquote retire them. Villaneuv's sequel takes up

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Speaker 6: the story thirty years later and has a police replicant

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Speaker 6: called Ka doing his own blade Runner work, retiring models

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Speaker 6: that are considered obsolete. Both films question what it means

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Speaker 6: to be human, but both of them also keep the

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Speaker 6: philosophy submerge under action, maybe to cover up the fact

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Speaker 6: that apparently all you need to be human is a

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Speaker 6: few convincing stories about your mother and a snappy answer

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Speaker 6: to that turtle question.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I can certainly tell many convincing stories about my mother,

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Speaker 4: which is a thing that I have because I am

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Speaker 4: definitely a human. We'll be right back after this break

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Speaker 4: to talk about both Blade Runner movies, or at least

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Speaker 4: I'll be back after this break. The rest of you.

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Speaker 4: It may depend on your human reflexes.

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Speaker 2: I've got four skin yah, Wanta streets, Wanton streets.

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Speaker 3: They're either a benefit or a hazard.

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Speaker 7: Benefit is not my problem, not my problem.

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Speaker 3: I'm Rachel Deckard.

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Speaker 4: Have you ever retired a human by mistake?

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Speaker 7: And mistake by mistake?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 3: I need the old blade rounding later Runner.

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Speaker 2: This is a bad, bad.

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Speaker 4: Pap Can it not know what it is?

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Speaker 2: If only you could see what I've assume, and I

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Speaker 2: have assumed what I have seen.

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Speaker 5: More human than human is Almatto.

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Speaker 4: Back in nineteen ninety two, when the so called director's

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Speaker 4: cut of Blade Runner was released, La Times film critic

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Speaker 4: kath Taran wrote a monumental piece about the making of

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Speaker 4: the film, which is apparently the kind of nightmare usually

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Speaker 4: reserved for Francis Ford coppol or Stanley Kubrick movies. The

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Speaker 4: people who worked on it called it Blood Runner. Teruran

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Speaker 4: writes a sardonic tribute to the amount of personal grief

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Speaker 4: and broken relationships it caused, and they recall it with

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Speaker 4: horror and awe, among other things than tracks. How Hampton

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Speaker 4: Fantry script adapted from Philip K. Dick's novel, spent a

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Speaker 4: long time bouncing around Hollywood because producer Michael Deeley wanted

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Speaker 4: Ridley Scott to direct, and Scott was busy with a

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Speaker 4: little movie called Alien. The script, which kept changing names

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Speaker 4: from Android to Animal, to Mechanismo to Dangerous Days. Went

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Speaker 4: through eight revisions before Fancher was bumped off the project,

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Speaker 4: and at one point they apparently brought in Dustin Hoffman

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Speaker 4: as the lead. Scott did eventually sign on, and he

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Speaker 4: promptly showed up in the first day of shooting and

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Speaker 4: began redesigning the set. Turan describes the design process as

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Speaker 4: an attempt to get to a point where quote progress

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Speaker 4: and decay would exist hand in hand. Ridley Scott started

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Speaker 4: his career as a production designer, which helps explain both

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Speaker 4: the meticulous, elaborate design of Blade Runner and Alien and

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Speaker 4: other films he's directed, and the hell that he put

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Speaker 4: his designers through on this film. It may also explain

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Speaker 4: why Blade Runner is so obsessed with slowly exploring these

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Speaker 4: elaborate urban exteriors and the costumed people and the flashing,

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Speaker 4: floating neon signs that flow through them. Blade Runner is

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Speaker 4: a visual dream of a movie, but at its worst

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Speaker 4: it can also feel inert and listless, as if Scott

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Speaker 4: is more interested in drifting through the world he's created

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Speaker 4: than chasing the replicants around in it. There is a

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Speaker 4: fair bit of action and violence in Blade Runner, especially

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Speaker 4: toward the end, but the film is built more around

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Speaker 4: the sullen, frustrated mood of the city than around those

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Speaker 4: story beats, and Scott's obsession with a feeling of the

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Speaker 4: future is a large part of that, but to some

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Speaker 4: degree that attitude also comes baked into the story. Harrison

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Speaker 4: Ford stars as Rick Deckard, a kind of future bounty

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Speaker 4: hunter called a blade runner. The story behind that title,

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Speaker 4: by the way, is a long, complicated one, and it's

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Speaker 4: well worth looking into. The history involves William S. Burrows

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Speaker 4: and a novelist named Alan Norse, who came up with

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Speaker 4: the term for his health care dystopia novel, which literally

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Speaker 4: has men who run black market scalpels around town. Rick

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Speaker 4: Deckard considers himself retired, but he's forced back into service

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Speaker 4: when a group of rogue replicants arrive on Earth and

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Speaker 4: he's ordered to hunt them down. That's part of the sullen,

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Speaker 4: reluctant feel of the movie. Deckard isn't a true believer

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Speaker 4: invested in the need to kill artificial humanoids. He's a

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Speaker 4: beaten down, weather worn character and Raymond Chandler mode, and

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Speaker 4: like so many noir detectives, he spends a good part

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Speaker 4: of the story getting beaten up for his efforts, and

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Speaker 4: so Blade Runner doesn't feel anything like a conventional science

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Speaker 4: fiction action story. It is a hero who's charged with

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Speaker 4: killing sentient beings solely because they don't want to be slaves.

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Speaker 4: He doesn't seem to like what he does, and he

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Speaker 4: isn't necessarily all that good at it. Midway through the film,

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Speaker 4: he even falls for a replicant named Rachel played by

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Speaker 4: Sean Young as a confused woman who can't accept that

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Speaker 4: she's artificial. She seems to mostly want to escape deckerd

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Speaker 4: even as he's pulling her into a relationship, and the

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Speaker 4: primary villain's Deckard is facing include Roy Baddie and Priss,

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Speaker 4: replicants played by Rutger Hower and Daryl Hannah, who have

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Speaker 4: a sort of fer Old Joker and Harley Quinn relationship,

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Speaker 4: but sometimes just come across as desperate for the life

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Speaker 4: they were denied when they were created. Replicants come with

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Speaker 4: a built in short lifespan, and Roy, Priss and their

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Speaker 4: fellow replicants are already close to dying when the movie starts.

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Speaker 4: So Blade Runner is the story of a killer who

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Speaker 4: doesn't really want to kill a femb fatale who is

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Speaker 4: an interested in seduction or manipulation, Villains who don't want

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Speaker 4: to be villains, and a vast, shining city that seems

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Speaker 4: a lot clearer about itch goals than any of the

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Speaker 4: characters are. No wonder this became a cult movie that

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Speaker 4: viewers have been arguing over, picking apart and rewatching for

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Speaker 4: thirty five years. Now we'll do a little of all

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Speaker 4: of those things ourselves. As we get into discussing the

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Speaker 4: nineteen eighty two Blade Runner.

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Speaker 3: You remember the spider that lived in a bush outside

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Speaker 3: your window, Orange body, Green legs. Watched her build a

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Speaker 3: web all summer. Then one day there's a big egg

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Speaker 3: in it.

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Speaker 5: The egg hatched, The egg hatched.

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Speaker 4: Man, and a hundred baby spiders came out.

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Speaker 2: And they ate her.

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Speaker 3: Implants.

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Speaker 5: Those aren't your memories. There's somebody else's. They're tire else nieces.

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Speaker 3: Okay, bad joke, I made a bad Joe joke.

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Speaker 7: You're not a replicant, Go home?

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: So what do you guys think? Why is this movie

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Speaker 4: such an enduring hit?

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Speaker 5: I mean, it wasn't a hit when it came out, right,

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Speaker 5: I mean, oh no, no, it wasn't.

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Speaker 4: It got kind of mediocre ish reviews and it did

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Speaker 4: kind of okay box office, but it really has endured.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's got a reputation certainly as a cold

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Speaker 4: master piece.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I feel like, and maybe I'm just reflected by my

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Speaker 2: own experiences of the movie, but I felt like there

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Speaker 2: was a ten year period where people weren't talking about

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Speaker 2: Blade Runner, and then with the nineteen ninety two revival,

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Speaker 2: which became widespread with the release of the Directors Cut,

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Speaker 2: I feel like that sort of like ground zero for

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Speaker 2: modern Blade Runner fandom. I could be wrong, that's certainly

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Speaker 2: when I latched onto it. You know, I saw this

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Speaker 2: movie as a midnight movie, you know, when it was

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Speaker 2: in re release, and I thought, I've never seen anything

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Speaker 2: like this before. This is this is the movie I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be visiting a lot. And you know what,

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Speaker 2: I was right. It's a movie probably on the short

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Speaker 2: list of movies I've watched the most times. It's a

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Speaker 2: movie I could pretty much watch it any given moment,

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Speaker 2: just kind of sink into it. And for me, a

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Speaker 2: lot of it just had to do with just the

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Speaker 2: enveloping atmosphere of it. It's a movie I like to

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Speaker 2: just kind of live in and walk around in a

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Speaker 2: little bit, and I find the questions that raise really interesting.

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Speaker 2: But also it's a movie where I see something different

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Speaker 2: every time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean exactly right. I mean, I think it's

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Speaker 5: the look and feel of the film that is the

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Speaker 5: primary reason why people keep returning to it. It's just

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Speaker 5: it's so beautiful, and I think Vangelici's score is a

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Speaker 5: little underrated in terms of being part of that seductive

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Speaker 5: quality of the film. So, I mean, apart from just

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Speaker 5: any action on the screen, it's such a beautiful piece

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Speaker 5: of art just to watch. I mean, if you think

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Speaker 5: about like cinematic worlds, like great vivid cinematic worlds, I mean,

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Speaker 5: you'd have to have put this among, you know, on

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Speaker 5: a short list, right, yeah, yeah, And.

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Speaker 6: It's a beauty that isn't diminished by the passing of

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Speaker 6: time and advances in technology, Like it is definitely one

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Speaker 6: of those movies that still looks as amazing today as

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Speaker 6: it did in nineteen eighty two. And you don't have

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Speaker 6: to look at it through the lens of like this

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Speaker 6: looked amazing for the time and then there's some seams now,

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Speaker 6: but no, there are no seams, like it's still it's beautiful,

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Speaker 6: and you know, on Blu ray on four K, Like

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Speaker 6: we know, whatever transfer you're watching, it's still beautiful, and

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Speaker 6: I think that has helped like kept the myth of

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Speaker 6: it alive.

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Speaker 2: Every time those opening images that I and the city

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Speaker 2: scape just takes my breath away, and it's like, and

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Speaker 2: with the music on top of it, it's just sort

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Speaker 2: of this beautiful but also foreboding and really unnerving looking

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Speaker 2: city scape among the openings of films. It's it's perfect.

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Speaker 4: I can't help but wonder if some of that is

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Speaker 4: just the use of miniatures and models as opposed to

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Speaker 4: flats or paintings or projections or you know, a lot

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Speaker 4: of the other methods that were used at the time.

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Speaker 4: And certainly you know, nothing digital. Everything still has a

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Speaker 4: really physical feel, and like, no matter how much you

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Speaker 4: blow it up or like how how much sharper images get,

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Speaker 4: it still has like that image of the sort of

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Speaker 4: black pyramid with all the flying cars sort of swooping

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Speaker 4: around it. No matter how close you get to it,

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Speaker 4: it still has a physicality to it that really says

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Speaker 4: something about practical effects.

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Speaker 5: A couple of other things about the appeal of the film, too,

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Speaker 5: is one I think it's a perfect original fusion of

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Speaker 5: genres of science fiction and noir just being just beautifully

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Speaker 5: woven together. And I think that's part of it. And

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Speaker 5: the other thing is I think the world of the

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Speaker 5: film is full of mystery, and a mystery that it

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Speaker 5: doesn't really go out of its way to define in

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Speaker 5: terms of like how did this world come to be?

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Speaker 5: And what are the rules that dictated? And how do

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Speaker 5: people live? It's not really out there to answer all

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Speaker 5: those questions for you, and so you can just kind

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Speaker 5: of let your mind kind of circle around that.

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Speaker 4: I do wonder, I have to wonder how much extra

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Speaker 4: texturals matter in this case. I'm throwing that word out

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Speaker 4: there just in hopes of seeing scoff.

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Speaker 5: They don't go ahead, well in this case.

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Speaker 4: You know, there's so much debate has been raised over

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Speaker 4: there have been eight different versions of this film in

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Speaker 4: terms of different cuts. Some of those cuts have been

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Speaker 4: exceedingly minor differences, but it's been a huge arguing point

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Speaker 4: for just cinema fans, like which one is the definitive one,

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Speaker 4: which is the best one, Like what does the addition

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Speaker 4: of this eight seconds mean or not mean? And then

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Speaker 4: on top of that, there's the ongoing controversy over whether

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Speaker 4: Harrison Ford's character Rick Deckard is himself a replicant, and

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Speaker 4: those two things have fueled, I think, a certain science

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Speaker 4: fiction fandom, the fandom of people defined often by their

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Speaker 4: desire to nitpick and pull things apart and debate things

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Speaker 4: endlessly and to be right, like this film is debated

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Speaker 4: in a way that few others are, and I can't

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Speaker 4: help but wonder if those arguments have kept this film

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Speaker 4: at the forefront in a way that other beloved films

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Speaker 4: like Ridley Scott's Alien, for instance, haven't hung on in

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Speaker 4: exactly the same way, because it's not constantly being brought

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Speaker 4: back in geek circles.

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Speaker 2: In terms of the versions, I feel like there are

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Speaker 2: really only two significant versions of this film, and there's

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Speaker 2: variations on those. There is the theatrical cut with the voiceover,

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Speaker 2: and there's a nineteen ninety two director's cut without the

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Speaker 2: voiceover and with some significant additions and a different ending,

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Speaker 2: And I feel like the final cut is just sort

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Speaker 2: of like fine tuning that with a few additions. And

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Speaker 2: there's other versions of the theatrical cut. And here's where

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Speaker 2: I confessed to never actually watching the theatrical cut all

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Speaker 2: the way through. I feel like I'm a huge fan

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Speaker 2: of this film, and I some day, you know, some day,

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Speaker 2: I'll sit down and do it. But I've gone back

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Speaker 2: and I've watched the differences. I've watched the narration. I

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Speaker 2: know everything that happens in the theatrical cut. But if

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Speaker 2: I'm going to dedicate two hours of watching this film,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to watch a version of the film I

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Speaker 2: really like. And my experience of Theedric cut is I

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Speaker 2: found the voiceover intrusive. I find it sort of good

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Speaker 2: information to know, and I think that probably is, you know,

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Speaker 2: in terms of extra textuals. I think I can bring

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Speaker 2: that information into my understanding of the later versions. But

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Speaker 2: I feel like the changes made to make the Director's cut,

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Speaker 2: the removal the voiceover, the addition of the unicorn, the

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Speaker 2: removal of the happy ending, make it a much better film.

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Speaker 2: I ride with that version and variations of that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I watched the theatrical version for the first time

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Speaker 6: in preparation for this, just because it seemed like something

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Speaker 6: I should do. And while we're confessing, you know, semi

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Speaker 6: shameful opinions like I don't think that the voiceover in

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Speaker 6: the original is I mean it's kind of famously a

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Speaker 6: terrible voiceover and for you can hear his reluctance in

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Speaker 6: every single syllable. But I kind of like the idea

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Speaker 6: of the voiceover, and like I can imagine a world

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Speaker 6: in which that voiceover is delivered in a different way

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Speaker 6: where it really works. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It fits the

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Speaker 6: noir and it does kind of And this may be

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Speaker 6: coming from the fact that I have seen this movie

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Speaker 6: multiple times, but like it does provide a little more

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Speaker 6: sensory input during those beautiful, long, slow scenes where you're

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Speaker 6: just like watching, you know, the beauty, and like that's great,

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Speaker 6: but it's also kind of nice to have something else

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Speaker 6: happening during those those moments as well. I did kind

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Speaker 6: of enjoy the voiceover in some of those moments that

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Speaker 6: I have taken in and soaked in over the years,

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Speaker 6: and but this was like a different way to take

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Speaker 6: them in that I kind of liked. The happy ending

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Speaker 6: is trash and I'm glad it's gone.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. I wonder if it was just a matter of direction,

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Speaker 5: like Harrison Ford's on the booth and you just tell

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Speaker 5: them be actor Harrison Ford, not media tour Harrison Ford,

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Speaker 5: and then maybe you get a very betiful formance out

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Speaker 5: of him.

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Speaker 7: Tyrrell really did a job on Rachel, right down to

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Speaker 7: a snapshot of a mother.

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Speaker 5: She never had a daughter, She never.

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Speaker 7: Was Replicants weren't supposed to have feelings either, were blade Runners.

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Speaker 7: But the hell was happening to me?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, My experience is mostly with the director's cut as well,

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Speaker 5: though I have seen the theatrical and for the directors.

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Speaker 5: But you're right about the noir aspect being appropriate, and

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Speaker 5: I think obviously Warner Brothers felt a little bit of

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Speaker 5: information was necessary to kind of carry the audience through

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Speaker 5: the movie.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there are things I did not pick up

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Speaker 2: until actually read the novel, which it's very loosely based

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Speaker 2: on in some ways but otherwise very connected to. But

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Speaker 2: the whole idea of animals, actual live animals, being a

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Speaker 2: precious commodity is so central to the Philip K. Dick novel.

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Speaker 2: And you don't get what's going on with the owl

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Speaker 2: the first time around watching this movie. If you don't

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Speaker 2: have that narration, I.

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Speaker 4: Think that the movie keys you in that the owl

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Speaker 4: isn't real because it keeps catching those the reflections of

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Speaker 4: its pupils, which are exactly the same as what you

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Speaker 4: get from the replicants, which, well, the thing I never

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Speaker 4: understood about void comftest is like, why do you need

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Speaker 4: all of these abstracts questions when you could just look

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Speaker 4: at their weird glowing eyes and see that they're artificial.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's a great effect. It's an unnerving and

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Speaker 4: eerie every time it comes up. But every time it

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Speaker 4: comes up, I think, why did you need all these questions? Scott,

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Speaker 4: You've brought up the noir aspects a couple times now,

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Speaker 4: and that was one thing that we want to to

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Speaker 4: kind of dive into. If you look at this structurally,

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Speaker 4: it's a gum shoe novel with a fem fatale, and

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Speaker 4: the fem fatale has a bad husband that she wants

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Speaker 4: to be rid of, and she falls into a relationship

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Speaker 4: with him with the PI even though she doesn't really

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Speaker 4: care for him all that much, and then the evil

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Speaker 4: husband dies. Except that it isn't constructed that way at all,

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Speaker 4: Like so many of those tropes, don't actually fit those tropes.

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Speaker 4: It only looks like that at the most surface level possible.

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Speaker 4: So the film is playing with noir ideas, and it's

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Speaker 4: certainly playing with noir tones, but it also is doing

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Speaker 4: a lot of new things with them. I'm curious sort

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Speaker 4: of what you guys think about the noir elements here,

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Speaker 4: how they work, how they don't work well.

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Speaker 5: First of all, I do you think that she doesn't

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Speaker 5: have an interest in decker O want to move to death?

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Speaker 2: You can move to death, because I think it's interesting

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Speaker 2: now element of it as well. We're talking about the

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Speaker 2: love scene or sex scene or rape, depending on how

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Speaker 2: you look at it. Right to me, I think it's

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Speaker 2: an unsettling scene, but I also feel like it's thematically

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Speaker 2: tied into the rest of the film. We're talking about

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Speaker 2: a scene in which he says kiss me and sort

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Speaker 2: of pushes himself on her, and in the film about

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Speaker 2: who is and who isn't human, and what defines consent

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Speaker 2: and what defines free will. I think this is kind

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Speaker 2: of a pushing those ideas to a very uncomfortable place

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Speaker 2: in a really interesting way. And I think we can

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Speaker 2: to decide for ourselves what's going on, what's going through

383
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Speaker 2: his head, what's going through her head. The question of

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Speaker 2: whether or not he's a replicant or not factors into

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Speaker 2: it as well, and she clearly being a replicant, what

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Speaker 2: kind of free will she has, and whether or not

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Speaker 2: her reaction to him afterward is a result of actual

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Speaker 2: choice and actual fondness for him or something else. I

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Speaker 2: think it's part of the ambiguity of the film.

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Speaker 4: I didn't find it that ambiguous. I think I keep

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Speaker 4: forgetting how unpleasant I find that scene. And as we're

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Speaker 4: sitting down and recording this, the Harvey Weinstein thing is

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Speaker 4: in full flower, and we're hearing all of these other

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Speaker 4: accusations coming up, and like, all of this stuff is

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Speaker 4: very much in the zeitgeist right now, and watching this

396
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Speaker 4: scene where she literally tries he kisses her, she tries

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Speaker 4: to leave, he slams the door in her face, throws

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Speaker 4: her against a wall, and demands that she express affection

399
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Speaker 4: for him that she clearly doesn't feel.

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Speaker 6: It read as rape today, and she's already denied him

401
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Speaker 6: in the movie up to this point, like when he's

402
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Speaker 6: asked her to the bar.

403
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Speaker 4: For a drink and she hangs up on him.

404
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Speaker 6: Yeah, there's quite a bit of not taking the know

405
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Speaker 6: in that relationship that is really uncomfortable. I see what

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Speaker 6: you're saying, Keith. As far as how it does kind

407
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Speaker 6: of raise a lot of the themes of free will

408
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Speaker 6: that are inherent in this movie, but I don't think

409
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Speaker 6: it engages with that aspect of it. I disagree with

410
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Speaker 6: you there. I think like that relationship is all about

411
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Speaker 6: deckerd and his evolution and what he thinks about replicants,

412
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Speaker 6: and it is not at all about Rachel. She's just

413
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Speaker 6: like a catalyst and what's happening for a decord. I

414
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Speaker 6: don't get any sense of her connection to him beyond

415
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Speaker 6: self preservation, which is kind of a terrible romantic motivation.

416
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Speaker 6: And like this, this is a romance. I think the

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Speaker 6: heart of the movie is supposed to be this romance

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Speaker 6: between them, and it just it isn't there for me

419
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Speaker 6: because there is nothing coming from Rachel that I can

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Speaker 6: connect to as a viewer.

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Speaker 5: So I guess my question then would be where do

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Speaker 5: you think the director is coming from? And this is

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Speaker 5: this is I don't like it to say the word intent.

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Speaker 5: What it is his intent, because I always have that

425
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Speaker 5: whole thing about the fallacy of intent. But what was

426
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Speaker 5: in his intent was what was he trying to do?

427
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Speaker 5: Follow it? This is a mistake on his part.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I can't tell I can't tell you what

429
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Speaker 4: he whether it was a mistake or what he intended.

430
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Speaker 4: I think there are two things going on here. One

431
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Speaker 4: the script went through eight different rewrites, and then Fancher

432
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Speaker 4: was bumped off the script and somebody else came in

433
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Speaker 4: and rewrote it. I kind of feel like the major

434
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Speaker 4: scenes we see with Rachel feel like they came from

435
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Speaker 4: different drafts. And the draft where he sexual assaults her

436
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 4: and by the end she goes along with it, either

437
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 4: out of fear or because she sees what she can

438
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 4: get out of it feels like a different thing from

439
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 4: towards the end where she says she loves him and

440
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 4: they go off together. But either way, for me, the

441
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 4: whole thing fits very neatly into a noir story where

442
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 4: she is trying to get out of a relationship she

443
00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 4: doesn't want to be in. In this case, it's not

444
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 4: literally somebody that she's married to that she doesn't want

445
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 4: to be married to anymore. It's literally her creator slash owner.

446
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,879
Speaker 4: But in the same way, she is looking for an

447
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,479
Speaker 4: out and he comes along and offers it to her

448
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 4: in the form of a relationship he sees as love.

449
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 4: If she's doing it deliberately and manipulating him, if she

450
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 4: makes a choice at some point during that assault to

451
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 4: go along with it, and then realizes she can use him.

452
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 4: That would fit entirely within the greater world of noir stories,

453
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 4: which very commonly have femftales going through with that kind

454
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 4: of relationship with somebody they have no affection for, no

455
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 4: interest in willing to ape it. Now, I'm with Genevieve.

456
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 4: I don't think that the film fully plays that out.

457
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 4: I don't think it executes it as well as it

458
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 4: could or should, And I don't think it executes it

459
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 4: as well as I would want it to believe that

460
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 4: the theme is there, But if I look at it

461
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 4: through a noir lens, I can at least stomach it.

462
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 5: I mean, I think you see a certain putting it

463
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 5: euphemistically roughness to film noir with regard to relationships between

464
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,880
Speaker 5: men and women that carries that carries over into this movie.

465
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 5: But the interesting thing too, and this is something you

466
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 5: brought up in the keynote, is just how it defies

467
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 5: and frustrate your expectations of all of these genres, you know.

468
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 5: I mean, if if you are going approaching Blade Runner

469
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 5: as a sci fi action film, for example, is it

470
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 5: really satisfying at all on that level? Probably not. It

471
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 5: has some really exciting scenes in it, but it isn't

472
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 5: It's not a thrill ride. It's a very this is

473
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 5: a very moody picture that doesn't really that slips every

474
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 5: kind of definition that you want to attach to it.

475
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, but at the same time, I mean was kind

476
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 4: of you wanted to edge more towards a Chinatown kind

477
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 4: of feel. Chinatown isn't a satisfying action movie either. No,

478
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 4: but you know, it's a great film.

479
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 5: It's solidly a detective film though.

480
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true. One of the things that I always

481
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,239
Speaker 4: surprises me about this is how little detecting actually does.

482
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 4: It's more of like just a very drawn out chase

483
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 4: film or you know, a pursuit film. Because there are

484
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,959
Speaker 4: the four replicants, it does give me a little bit

485
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 4: of that like treasure hunt or video game mentality, like

486
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 4: you got to check him off one by one. You know,

487
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 4: it's the different stages of the quest, and he.

488
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 2: Really finds one of them. Yeah, he's not that great.

489
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 2: I mean's probably the best at what he does, but

490
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 2: you know, but he does must be very hard.

491
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 4: He's kind of looking for needles in a haystack.

492
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 6: I guess the big scene of Detective work. Is the

493
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 6: photo scene enhance Enhance scenes.

494
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: Such a cliche, but so it was. It's so thrilling

495
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 2: in this well.

496
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 6: Thrilling is one way to describe it. I found myself

497
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 6: geeting increasingly annoyed with it this time through because it

498
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 6: is very drawn up out in the way that so

499
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 6: much in this movie is drawn out. And I do

500
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 6: think it's maybe the one instance in this movie where

501
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 6: the effects or the details of the world don't really

502
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 6: work for me in terms of the like going into

503
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 6: the photo and then it becoming three dimensional, and I

504
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 6: don't think it's presented on screen in a way that

505
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 6: makes it very clear what this technology is and what

506
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 6: it does and how he's utilizing it. And it just

507
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 6: comes across like enhance, enhance until I get to the

508
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 6: thing that I need to see.

509
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 5: But until you get to the thing you need to

510
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 5: see it it feels like blow up, right, Like when

511
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 5: you're just like your folks, you're zooming in and zooming

512
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 5: in and zooming in, and it's like, what are you seeing?

513
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 5: Can you really say what that thing is? And then

514
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 5: of course you know you're actually able to enhance a

515
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 5: good information from it.

516
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 4: I mean, it doesn't one hundred percent work for me,

517
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 4: especially since no matter how many times I watch it,

518
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 4: I find myself thinking, what is he looking for? What

519
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 4: are we seeing? Why is this important? But it does

520
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 4: lead to a his one moment of inspire detective work,

521
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 4: and b that moment where he walks into the dressing

522
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 4: room doing that voice. Yeah, his nerd voice, which is

523
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 4: one of the best acting moments in the movie. I

524
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 4: can never believe that that voice is coming out of

525
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 4: Harrison Ford. It's great and like watching that whole scene

526
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 4: build and come apart is one of my favorite un

527
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 4: heralded moments in the movie. There are a lot of

528
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 4: moments in this movie that are justly famous and quotable

529
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 4: and memorable. I'm not sure that Harrison Ford's are. I'm

530
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 4: a geek who's trying to break into your dressing room

531
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 4: underful printches. I'm looking for holes like that whole business

532
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 4: is so good.

533
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 6: He drops the voice very briefly though during it doesn't

534
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 6: he Yeah.

535
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 4: I mean it's clearly not Rick Deckard's forte.

536
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot of funny and

537
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 2: also it's not a detail racist question. Is he good

538
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 2: at his job?

539
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 6: I mean, he's pretty handy with a blaster.

540
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 2: I guess everyone else is just really bad at blade running.

541
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 5: Well. I mean the society isn't it as not all

542
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 5: that functional? Yeah, yeah, so a lot of people are

543
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 5: not good at their jobs.

544
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is an interesting future. You know, it's in

545
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 4: many ways it's a very sleek future. Like the flying

546
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 4: cars look super functional, and everything is very black and shiny,

547
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 4: and you've got like the giant video screens everywhere monolithic.

548
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 4: But at the same time, when you get close up

549
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 4: on technology, it's kind of got that Brazil janky ass

550
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 4: cludged together feeling to it. So there's there's kind of

551
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 4: a and you've got a technology that can send people

552
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 4: into space and send seabeams glittering through the ten hauserd gate,

553
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 4: but that also like can't come up with a scanner

554
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,239
Speaker 4: that doesn't look like eight different computers pile along each other.

555
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 2: I think the good tech is elsewhere. I think people

556
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: who could have gotten off Earth, and there's a few

557
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 2: people like Tyrel who I think kind of are making

558
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 2: the best of what's what's still around. But I get

559
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 2: the feeling that a lot of people have put new

560
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 2: life awaits them on the off world colonies that aren't

561
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 2: taking up on that because because Earth's not in great shape.

562
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 2: So I think you get the sense of this rundown

563
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 2: world that's like it's sort of like the center of

564
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: the empire that's also become sort of the outskirts of

565
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 2: the empire.

566
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 5: In some ways.

567
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 4: I find it fascinating when science fiction worlds like Star

568
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 4: Wars gets a lot of praise for being like a

569
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 4: beat up world where everything looks used, and Star Trek

570
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 4: gets a lot of praise for being this like shiny

571
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 4: futuristic world that people would want to live in. I

572
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 4: find it so much more interesting when science fiction worlds

573
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 4: do both when they acknowledge that in the future as now,

574
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 4: there will probably be disparity of income and disparity of resources,

575
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 4: and the different levels of technology.

576
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 5: And also things that we believe advances that we believe

577
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 5: are going to make our lives better that aren't. I mean,

578
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 5: what are what are replicants? But that right of this

579
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,479
Speaker 5: this extraordinary feed of technology and engineering that is now

580
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 5: coming back to kill us, you know, so you know,

581
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 5: we're not in control our own creations, and we're also

582
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 5: also this this the world we imagine for ourselves, this

583
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 5: better world, remaginement for ourselves is not necessarily better than

584
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 5: we were before.

585
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 4: This is one of the few science fiction movies I

586
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 4: can think of where our artificial intelligences are coming to

587
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 4: kill us and we kind of deserve it, and we don't.

588
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 4: We don't deserve it for playing God, which is the

589
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 4: usual excuse for for movies like Transcendence or Splice or

590
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 4: Morgan or Ex Machina or whatever. It is the feeling

591
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 4: of like you crossed the line that shouldn't be crossed.

592
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 4: You scienced where you shouldn't have scienced.

593
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 2: So, you know, tampered in God's domain exactly.

594
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 4: This movie doesn't get into that. I don't think it

595
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 4: comes up to the idea of if you create sentient

596
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 4: life and you make it your slave, then you might

597
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 4: deserve what you get.

598
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, beyond trying to kill us, it's sort of prompting

599
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: an existential crisis about what humanity is. I mean, that's

600
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: sort of the central thing of the film. And it

601
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 2: doesn't really beat you over the head with this, but

602
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: you know, watching it again, I mean, who's the most

603
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: soulful character in the film. It's Roy Patty. I mean,

604
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: Roy is this sort of like a ruthless killing machine

605
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: in some ways, but it's also the most reflective, the

606
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: most introspective, the most philosophical character in the entire film.

607
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: And he's a replicant, and.

608
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 4: He also knows when to clench a dove in his

609
00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 4: hand for effect.

610
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 6: I think kind of in talking about this, we also

611
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 6: need to talk about the character of JF. Sebastian and

612
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 6: his friends. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was debating which which

613
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 6: you were going to name Roybatty or to have Sebastian,

614
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 6: which I think just to quickly go back to something else,

615
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 6: we noted about the social disparity in this future world,

616
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 6: and like j Have Sebastian just kind of living in

617
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 6: this creepy, old, abandoned complex because he can't go off

618
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 6: world because he has this disease. So I just I

619
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 6: think he's like an interesting reflection of that aspect of

620
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 6: this world. But to go back to what we were

621
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 6: talking about about artificial intelligence, he's creating these horrible, terrifying creatures,

622
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 6: you know, as his friends, and like the replicants are

623
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 6: kind of like the shiny apex of that instinct, you know,

624
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 6: and something that is so close to humanity, and what

625
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 6: Jeff Sebastian is making is not that and it's it's upsetting,

626
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 6: and you can understand the impulse, you know that it's

627
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 6: behind it, but it's not a good thing that he

628
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 6: is doing.

629
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 4: You just don't like creepy clowns.

630
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 6: I don't like creepy clowns. But but well, I don't

631
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 6: like a lot of creepy wind up toy creatures with

632
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 6: ball gags in their mouths.

633
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: They seem nine.

634
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 6: Nine, but I.

635
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 4: Mean they're a little eerie, but I think they're sweet.

636
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 4: Do you think they're happy?

637
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 3: Though?

638
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 4: I'm not sure how Like, I'm not sure how intelligent

639
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 4: or functional they are. Apart from from the clown and

640
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 4: the teddy bear, they may not be sophisticated enough to

641
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 4: actually be intelligent.

642
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: And I think one of the one of the things

643
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: making you question, like where the line.

644
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 4: Is, yeah, exactly. I think one of the things that's

645
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 4: creepiest is when PRIs positions herself among them. There's that

646
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 4: feeling of like all of these essentially like maybe weird looking,

647
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 4: maybe unsettling looking, but essentially like gentle toys, and then

648
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 4: there's a killer in their midst that looks exactly like them.

649
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 4: That's that's creepy, and I think.

650
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 5: It's really well done, really well done. All that stuff.

651
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 5: That's my favorite section of the movie. Anything involving him

652
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 5: in his.

653
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 6: William Sanderson is probably my favorite performance, and it's just.

654
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 5: An example of the of the film being maybe a

655
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 5: little more whimsical and entertaining and wondering. You know. It's

656
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 5: just there's something kind of pleasurable purely about those scenes

657
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 5: that isn't necessarily how you describe the rest of the

658
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 5: movie around it.

659
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that sequence where he's just sort of

660
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 4: hanging out with Priss and his toys in particular, feels

661
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 4: more like something out of AI than anything else in

662
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 4: this movie.

663
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: And Priss does get to play the film vital role

664
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: in this in a way that that's.

665
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 4: True, except she's kind of chilling for her dark husband

666
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 4: as opposed to trying to escape him. But yeah, she

667
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 4: does the whole business around William Sanderson. I think is

668
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 4: interesting because everybody in this film is so compromised. You know,

669
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 4: Deckard is is a killer, and the killers are manipulating

670
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 4: people and using them and murdering them, and Tyrell himself

671
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 4: is like hiding in his ivory tower away from the

672
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 4: chaos he's helped create. Everybody in this film is some

673
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 4: kind of like user or vampire or bully, except fashion.

674
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 4: He's just kind of an overgrown kid sitting sadly with

675
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 4: his toys. And I think one of the reasons that

676
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 4: we like him is he's the only person in the

677
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 4: movie that isn't viole in some way.

678
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: I mean, he might be compromised just by his association

679
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 2: with Tyrell. I mean, he certainly enabled Tyrell and helped

680
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: create the situation that the film finds itself in.

681
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 5: Is his the only act of kindness in the film,

682
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 5: of bringing her into his home is that is does

683
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 5: anyone do anything kind in the film besides that.

684
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 4: Off the top of my head, not that I can

685
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 4: think of.

686
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: I mean, there's almost his character laying him off the

687
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: hook at the end.

688
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, but nothing that character does can be called kind.

689
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 6: That's a fundamentally unkind character.

690
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 4: I mean one of the Okay, So one of the

691
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 4: things that sort of baffles me most about the movie

692
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 4: is is Zora's character, Like, she doesn't necessarily do anything kind,

693
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 4: but she's also she just comes across as a working girl.

694
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 4: She's got a job. Is she just out there like

695
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 4: making money? So the rest of the replicants can can

696
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 4: function why isn't she with them on their quest for

697
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 4: more life? Is she just like getting by day to

698
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 4: day working nine to five.

699
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: They are all working together and just had different aspects

700
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: of the job. I mean, I think it's a little

701
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: under explained, but I think she's certainly connected to all

702
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 2: them still.

703
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 4: So, I mean, she certainly doesn't come across as as kind,

704
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 4: but she doesn't come across as malevolent either.

705
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, but we're like in the little introduction that we're

706
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 6: given to them at the beginning, isn't she described as

707
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 6: like a fundamentally like violent or dangerous, like.

708
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 4: She's like a political assassin.

709
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, so like we're told that she's dangerous, we don't

710
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 6: really ever see that in this in the story that film. Yeah, yeah, she.

711
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 4: Puts on a bikini and a some saran wrap in order.

712
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 6: To run falls through several panes of glass and high

713
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 6: heels because let me, let me tell you, when I

714
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 6: know I'm about to be running for my life, first

715
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 6: thing I do is put on the stilettos. I mean,

716
00:33:58,960 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 6: replicants can run an.

717
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 4: That's what my husband said.

718
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 6: What she's programmed too, like, of course, and it's another

719
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 6: webin if she needs it.

720
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 4: I think One of the things that for me just

721
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 4: comes out of a rewatching blade runner is a sense

722
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 4: that some of these said pieces are incredibly remarkable, but

723
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 4: to some degree that just don't all fit together. His

724
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 4: decord's whole, like I am an actual gum shoe. I'm

725
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 4: going to examine the evidence, and it's going to lead

726
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 4: me to a trail of clues, and then I'm going

727
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 4: to find my first target. Doesn't necessarily fit with the

728
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 4: rest of the movie and his actions and the rest

729
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 4: of the movie Roy Batty, like going back and forth

730
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 4: between this sort of gentle philosopher and like a drooling

731
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 4: madman screaming doggerel on the roof, doesn't necessarily fit together

732
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 4: for me. Rachel kind of has her like before and

733
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 4: after periods that don't entirely fit together for me. Am

734
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 4: I wrong in thinking that this movie feels not confused

735
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 4: because it's so of a tone and of a piece,

736
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 4: but feels like a lot of strange puzzle pieces welded together.

737
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: I can see having that impression. I never it's never

738
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 2: felt that disjointed to me, But I mean feel like

739
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: we're dealing with characters who are, by their character or

740
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: programming not necessarily going to be consistent from moment to moment.

741
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: In some ways, these replicants are living through life and

742
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: sped up, you know, one point five speed or faster

743
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: than that. So I think they're going to go through

744
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: changes in attitudes and philosophies a lot faster than regular

745
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 2: humans would. So I think you see Baddy go through

746
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: sort of angry avenger to philosophical mad man by the end.

747
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean it's almost like Hamlet life by

748
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 2: the end, where it's just sort of addressing the fundamental

749
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: questions of existence as he's dying. I mean, that's all

750
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 2: that works for me.

751
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 6: Baddy does work for me because, as you say, he's dying,

752
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 6: like he really, he realizes he's in the last moments

753
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 6: of his life, and I think he can be forgiven

754
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 6: for being a little inco systems in his emotions and

755
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 6: at a time like that.

756
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 2: Well, I think also with deck Ard, I I like

757
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: that the question remains unanswered as so whether or not

758
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: he's a replicant. But I think in many ways the

759
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 2: film makes a lot more sense if he is, just

760
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 2: because you know, you see this man who thinks he

761
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: has a past, he doesn't. I want the clues that

762
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 2: people point to is that he is replicant. Is his

763
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 2: place is covered in photographs, and it's saying that the

764
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: replicants to latch onto. And if you see someone who's

765
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 2: just been against his knowledge, you know, created to destroy

766
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 2: his own kind, this is someone who's going to have

767
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: a profound identity crisis, if not on a conscious level,

768
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: on a subconscious level, his programming is just going to

769
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 2: break down. And I think that is to me, I

770
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: think that's sort of the best read on his character.

771
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 2: Though I would never actually say the film definitely says

772
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 2: he's a replicant.

773
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 5: But it's a relevant question. You think that it be answered?

774
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 5: Is it important that it be answered?

775
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 6: I don't know if it's important that it be answered,

776
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 6: but I think Keith just demonstrated why it's a relevant

777
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 6: question important character.

778
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

779
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: I think it's better if it's left unanswered.

780
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 5: It is that it's funny to that doesn't stop the

781
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 5: new one. Just new One just answers and immediately, at

782
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 5: least with regard to Ryan Gosling's character, although.

783
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 4: It still doesn't answer it about Harrison Ford's character.

784
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 5: Well, one thing, one thing I will say about this movie, though,

785
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 5: and I don't know if it has to do with

786
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 5: it being disjointed in any way, but like you know,

787
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 5: I just saw it twice with Keith. I saw it

788
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 5: once on the big screen and in digital projection, and

789
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 5: then I saw it at his home on his four

790
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 5: K television, which is very nice.

791
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 6: Congratulations, It's so, it's really nice.

792
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 5: And I will say the film is a fundamentally elusive

793
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 5: experience for me. It's very hard for me even now,

794
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 5: I'm for seeing this extraordinary vivid film twice in short

795
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 5: succession to have really strong opinions or recall or or

796
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 5: super coached take as I would on virtually any other

797
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 5: type of film that I would see, have seen that often.

798
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 5: And it's so recently, I guess, and so, and I

799
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 5: don't know if that's a if I consider that a

800
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 5: flaw of the film rather than just the reality of it.

801
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 5: It is like tears in the.

802
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 4: Well.

803
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 2: I think that's part of the I think that's what

804
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 2: draws me back, is that it is elusive and it

805
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: is unanswered, and like you know, you say disjoined it,

806
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: I say dream like. I say dreamlike, Yes, exactly.

807
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 4: It is pretty dreamlike. Here's the thing. I have an

808
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 4: emotional reaction to this film and an intellectual one, and

809
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 4: the intellectual one says, there are a lot of interesting

810
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 4: pieces here that don't add up, and the emotional one

811
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 4: just reacts to the music, to the tone, to the performances,

812
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 4: which we haven't talked about much apart from Sanderson's. The

813
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 4: performances lure me into this film over and over and over,

814
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 4: and I'm I'm very positive on this movie. I just

815
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 4: I find myself examining my positivity and wondering to some

816
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 4: degree where it comes from, because the intellectual side of

817
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 4: my brain keeps trying to latch onto some story thread

818
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 4: in this thing that makes sense, some character development that

819
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 4: makes sense, and a lot of it doesn't. But it's

820
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a wonderful film. It's a wonderful feeling

821
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 4: and looking film and always has been well.

822
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 2: I think we should also talk about the period in

823
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 2: which should emerge in some ways and Scott's career. I

824
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 2: mean Scott sort of in commercials where arresting images triumphs

825
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 2: all and it appeared alongside sort of like the high

826
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 2: point in the early days of music videos, where it's

827
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: you don't see the fast cutting, but you definitely see

828
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 2: like sort of you know, translations of postmodernism, sort of

829
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 2: screens within screens and brands, you know, sort of corporate

830
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: culture like Foreground in some really interesting ways. It's definitely

831
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: to me, it's kind of the triumph of that moment

832
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: in many ways.

833
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 4: At the same time, this was his first film after Alien,

834
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 4: and Alien is in many ways a conventional start to

835
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 4: finish story. I mean it was it was establishing a

836
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 4: town plate that had not fully been established yet, and

837
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 4: he did. We talked about it at great length on

838
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 4: a previous podcast. He did amazing things with this kind

839
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 4: of story and particularly the look of it, the imagistic,

840
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 4: visually driven look of it. But at the same time,

841
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 4: there is a monster. There are a bunch of people

842
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,720
Speaker 4: fighting the monster. In the end, one of them survives

843
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 4: the monster. That is a pretty conventional story. Blade Runner

844
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 4: is so unconventional by comparison, Tasha.

845
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 5: You were talking about your intellectual response to it, I

846
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 5: guess your emotional response to it. And it's my just

847
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 5: general esthetic opinion that the characters and story, that intellectual

848
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 5: component it should be minimized. My interest is the filmgoer

849
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 5: is and the other side of that is and how

850
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 5: the tools of the medium are express something and a

851
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 5: lot of that this film is done through the world

852
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 5: of the film and how it's established and how it's photographed,

853
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 5: and how the music works and the effects and just

854
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,080
Speaker 5: the feel of the film is crucial to me to

855
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 5: the point where all these other aspects are not as important.

856
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 5: And that's just me and my own way of looking

857
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 5: at things. So I sort of cherish Blade Runner for

858
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 5: those reasons. But if you think about, like say, Harrison

859
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 5: Ford's performance in the movie, I don't think it's one

860
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 5: of his more interesting or compelling performances. I don't connect

861
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 5: to it terribly strongly. And I think removing that voiceover

862
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 5: from the director's cut almost properly lessons his presence of them.

863
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 4: It decentralizes him. Yeah, it makes him much less the

864
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 4: kind of defining part of the film. I think that

865
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 4: his performance here is really interesting because we think of

866
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 4: Harrison Ford, we think of these smirking hip shop characters,

867
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 4: and people forget how goofy Han Solo was. Like you

868
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 4: can see super cuts on the Internet of Han Solo

869
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 4: being lost, confused, hurt, scared, wigged out, incompetent, but people

870
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 4: don't remember in that way. People remember him, you know,

871
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 4: slouched in the the canteena shooting Grido. First, people remember

872
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 4: him as the guy with the snappy comeback, people remember

873
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 4: Indiana Jones, the guy with the whip, and people remember

874
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 4: him as the President punching people out on his plane.

875
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 4: Like Harrison, Ford's characters just have this sort of you know,

876
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 4: rap for being in control, smirking and like always knowing

877
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 4: what they're doing. He spends most of this movie looking

878
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 4: terrified out of his gourd, and like he spends the

879
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 4: entire final act crawling backwards across a rainy rooftop, desperately

880
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 4: trying to get away from something, running away from it,

881
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 4: going out a window to get away from it. He

882
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 4: spends so much of this movie scared, and I find

883
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 4: it fascinating. I find it a fascinating choice. I think

884
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 4: that the movie is not one hundred percent sold on

885
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 4: him as as the hero, even as the protagonist, and

886
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 4: as we've said several times, not necessarily good at his job.

887
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 4: And that makes him a really compelling character for me,

888
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 4: in part because Ford just kind of goes for broke

889
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 4: with it, like this is not a very ego filled performance.

890
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 2: Not necessarily good. I mean, that's part of why the

891
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 2: I'm less unnerved by the sexual assault thing. It's like,

892
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 2: I'm sure Deckard's a good guy, you know, I think

893
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: again think I think it taps into the central question

894
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 2: of the films, like this is someone who sees this

895
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 2: person as as less than human and should just be

896
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 2: able to bend to his will because of that. And

897
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: you know, there's sort of an evolution of that over

898
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 2: the course of the film where he kind of comes

899
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 2: to a greater understanding of who replicants are. But I

900
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 2: don't think he's a morally, you know, totally good character.

901
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 5: I think we're conditioned to believe that Harrison Ford being

902
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 5: Harrison Ford and being the hero of this film is

903
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 5: the hero. But you know, the more the more you

904
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 5: watch it, the more you think, hey, Rug or Howard

905
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 5: and Daryl Hannah, I see where you're coming from this,

906
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 5: and it's kind of reversing my presumptions about who's the

907
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 5: hero and who's a villain. This thing.

908
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think this movie reverses a lot of presumptions,

909
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 4: and I think that's one of the things that makes

910
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 4: it so interesting. So I think it's going to be

911
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 4: interesting to take it up in conjunction with Blade Runner

912
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 4: twenty forty nine, which also does some unconventional things, also

913
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 4: does some very conventional things, and I think kind of

914
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 4: takes up some of the themes that are underlined at

915
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 4: play here and makes them more over. We'll get into

916
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 4: that in more detail in Part two. In the meantime,

917
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 4: we're going to move on to Feedback, so we'll be

918
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 4: right back as usual. Because of the way we've been

919
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,439
Speaker 4: recording early to get around film festival season, we're running

920
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 4: a few episodes behind non feedback. Although frankly we're surprised

921
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 4: we're not hearing more ranting about Mother from you guys.

922
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,919
Speaker 4: We'd love to hear your thoughts on that film or maybe,

923
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 4: given some of the things our old buddy and Sister

924
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 4: podcast host Matt Singer has posted about people's theatrical experiences

925
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 4: after Mother, maybe we just want to hear how berserk

926
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 4: the audience has got in your screeners. For now, though,

927
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 4: here are some of the letters we received about our

928
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 4: pairing of Stand By Me and It. Keith.

929
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 2: You are up first, Sam writes, I loved your examination

930
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 2: of it. Thanks Sam, oh Oliver, not just spinal. I

931
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 2: loved your examination of it, and I agree with every

932
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: conclusion that you reached except one thing that I had

933
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 2: a different read on and a very different reaction to

934
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: Stans mon Dei Liani fear than Tasha. Where Tassa suggested

935
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 2: it was a superficial odd one out, to me, it

936
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: was a highlight in the film's portrayoral fear. While a

937
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 2: viewer might be better able to understand Mike being haunted

938
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: by his parents' death or Eddie's hypochondria stands, fear of

939
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 2: a scary picture felt very much more representative of how

940
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: children create fear for themselves. Growing up, my grandfather had

941
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 2: a painting from a theatrical production of Harvey that he directed.

942
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: Hanging in his basement was a life sized portrait of

943
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 2: himself posing with a six foot tall doll eyed rabbit

944
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 2: in the painterly style of John Singer's Sergeant. To see this,

945
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 2: please send pictures. Fear of this painting kept me out

946
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 2: of the basement for years and absolutely ruined Donny Darko

947
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: for me. The image itself is innocuous, but still sends

948
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 2: shivers down my spine. This may still have been a

949
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 2: shortcut to give Stan a fear without having to invest

950
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: time into bild him into an actual character, but it

951
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: was still revelatory. To see such a specific fear from

952
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 2: my own childhood realized on screen, and for a movie

953
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 2: about the power of fear, that was a very welcome detail.

954
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: I'll add to this, it's the one detail I know

955
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: Stephen Kings has singled out as being a great part

956
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 2: of the film, so alone is.

957
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 5: The director of Maximum Overdrive.

958
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's good to know that Stephen King thinks that

959
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 4: this was a good part of the film, because now

960
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 4: I can loathe it unreservedly. I love Stephen King as

961
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 4: a writer, He's not necessarily the most trustworthy film critic.

962
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 4: I actually do agree that this is very representative of

963
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 4: how kids create fears out of something weird and random.

964
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 4: They see that it comes across as uncanny and that

965
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 4: description Sam of the painting in your basement sounds horrifying

966
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 4: and might marrish and I agree, yes, absolutely, But again

967
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 4: for me, I think it was just a feeling that

968
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 4: piled on top of everybody else's nightmares.

969
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 5: It was just too much exactly right, I mean, how

970
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 5: many nightmares had we seen until we get to that point, right,

971
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 5: so we already have that to deal with, And then

972
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 5: it's an example of just the cgi run a muck

973
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 5: and I think maybe the very specific nature of the

974
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 5: sequence itself, the way it's pulled off, is maybe more

975
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 5: objectionable than the conceit.

976
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 4: I think that after seeing Ben being chased by like

977
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 4: that headless, herky, jerky, smoking man, I think anything would

978
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 4: have been less scary for me. I honestly think that

979
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 4: if this was a story about a kid haunted by

980
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 4: a painting, if it was about Stan and Stan's experience

981
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 4: the painting and the distortion of it, the creepy visual

982
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 4: of it, well, I mean, the same director did the

983
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 4: same thing in Mama, who also has that weird, elongated,

984
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 4: unnatural face, and she's horrifyingly creepy. So I think that

985
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 4: in isolation, Stan's nightmare makes a lot more sense to me,

986
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 4: But just piled up with everything the other kids are facing,

987
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 4: it just seemed like both too much and not enough

988
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 4: because it wasn't personal to him.

989
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 5: America disagrees, and so does Stephen King.

990
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 4: Here's the longer letter that looks the character of Beverly

991
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 4: Marsh in it and asks did she really have to

992
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 4: be drawn in such a lazy way? Scott, you want

993
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 4: to read this one.

994
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 5: Yes, Kevin writes, you touched on its damsel and distress

995
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 5: treatment of Beverly a little in the podcast, but I

996
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 5: think the film's lazy treatment of Beverly is much more extensive.

997
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 5: It's like the filmmaker's thought that since they were making

998
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 5: an eighties nostalgia piece, they had to include the casual

999
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 5: sexism of eighties popular culture. Beverly's fears are entwined with

1000
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 5: their sexuality. In her fear of being sexualized, the big

1001
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 5: reason she doesn't fit in is that people have spread

1002
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 5: rumors that she's quote unquote easy. The buckets of blood

1003
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 5: spraying from her sink are obviously connected with the onset

1004
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,879
Speaker 5: of her period, and in the real world, her father

1005
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 5: is clearly making a terrifying sexual threat to her. That

1006
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 5: all makes sense and fits in with the movie's use

1007
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 5: of childhood fears taking literal form through the torments of

1008
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 5: Penny Wise slash It. But the movie itself, if only

1009
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 5: or at least mostly, seems to see Beverly in terms

1010
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 5: of her sexuality. There are multiple scenes of the boys

1011
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 5: oggling her in her underwear, which, okay, a group of

1012
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 5: boys possibly seeing a live girl in her underwear for

1013
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 5: the first time are quite possibly going to have a reaction,

1014
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 5: so much of that in the movie, but then we

1015
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 5: get another scene of them auggling her while she sundays

1016
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 5: with Richie, making a joke about whether she's going to

1017
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 5: take her clothes off. Later, she casually flirts with the

1018
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 5: old pharmacist, who flirts back, and it's all played as

1019
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 5: a joke. Haha. Here's a grown man in a position

1020
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 5: of trust flirting with a twelve year old, and while

1021
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 5: we're supposed to find him creepy, we're also supposed to

1022
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 5: think it's funny, which really does not fit with Beverly's

1023
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 5: apparently deep seated fear of her own sexuality. Finally, Beverly

1024
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 5: being kidnapped is the inciting incident to have the boys

1025
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 5: got into the sewer to confront Pennywise that, as you

1026
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 5: said in the podcast, is just lazy. But to make

1027
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 5: things so much worse, the way they revive Beverly when

1028
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,760
Speaker 5: they find her is Ben kisses her for a sweet,

1029
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 5: beautiful beat. I really thought the kiss wasn't going to

1030
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 5: work and they were going to have to find a

1031
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 5: non sleeping beauty method for waking Beverly up. But no,

1032
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 5: of course, that's how you w someone up who's in

1033
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 5: some sort of demon calls flooding coma. It's also disappointing

1034
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,280
Speaker 5: to me and Beverly's first interaction with Ben. She's confident

1035
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 5: and funny and smart. She's also positioned as braver than

1036
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 5: the boy. Sometimes she's the first to jump off the cliff,

1037
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 5: she's the first to realize penny Wise feeds on fear.

1038
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 5: But for me, those things are outweighed by a series

1039
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 5: of lazy decisions that detract from what could have been

1040
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 5: a much better character. At least she got to have

1041
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 5: a character, unlike Mike.

1042
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:25,880
Speaker 4: There is a lot to unpack here. I'm going to

1043
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:30,200
Speaker 4: start with Beverly's fear of her sexuality. It is fairly

1044
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 4: common in abuse victims for them to act out sexually,

1045
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 4: for them to find ways to try to own their

1046
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 4: own sexuality, and I thought the movie was actually pretty

1047
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 4: smart about that. I don't think that it's oggling Beverly.

1048
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 4: I think that it's having her act out in ways

1049
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 4: that she's not allowed to act out around the home,

1050
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 4: and that it's a coming of age thing. She is

1051
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 4: trying to own her own body and control how her

1052
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 4: body is put in the world, and the boys around her.

1053
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 4: I think their reaction is appropriate. They try to be

1054
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 4: cool about it, but they're also kind of getting their

1055
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 4: minds blown. I didn't mind that aspect of the film

1056
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 4: at all, because I think it's very in keeping with

1057
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,760
Speaker 4: how people act when they're being controlled in this fashion.

1058
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 2: Really, to me, I thought it was a pretty interesting

1059
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,879
Speaker 2: portrayal of female adolescence until the ending, which I thought

1060
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 2: was the whole dancel and distress thing was kind of

1061
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 2: undermined at a lot of other things that preceded it.

1062
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 2: But I thought watching the film, I thought I did

1063
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 2: a pretty interesting job of teasing out some subtleties of

1064
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: what it means to be a girl on the verge

1065
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: of adolescents and something you realize you're recognized as a

1066
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 2: sexual object by those around you, even people who for

1067
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 2: whom it's really inappropriate to be a sexual object, and

1068
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: you know, you want to be seeing this thing other

1069
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,919
Speaker 2: than that, and then you kind of have to deal

1070
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 2: with the fact that there's probably no avoiding in that,

1071
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: even with you know, with your friends. I don't know.

1072
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 2: I thought that all of that was fairly interesting and nuanced,

1073
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 2: and then again it's kind of throw all that out

1074
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 2: the window with the Danncel and distress stuff at the end.

1075
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 6: I still haven't seen it and probably won't any anytime soon,

1076
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 6: but I did edit a piece for Vox on this

1077
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 6: subject and on Beverly's sexuality and how the film handles it.

1078
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 6: So I did want to mention it because I thought

1079
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 6: it was really fascinating, even having not seen the film.

1080
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 6: But it's by my colleague Asia Romano, and it's specifically

1081
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 6: talking about one scene, which is the bathroom cleanup scene. Basically,

1082
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 6: her argument is it, like so many of Stephen King's story,

1083
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 6: is at some level, a story about boys becoming men,

1084
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 6: and that is like an ongoing fixation of his and

1085
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 6: she is positioned within that story about boys becoming men.

1086
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 6: So in the context of that reading, the boys helping

1087
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 6: her clean up after this traumatic blood spurting scene is

1088
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 6: saying something about supporting women and believing them when they

1089
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 6: go through traumatic experiences and helping them, and that is

1090
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 6: positioned as a moment of growing up and of maturity.

1091
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 6: And like I said, I stel haven't seen it, so

1092
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 6: I'm just, you know, going off of this piece, but

1093
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 6: I really like that reading of it.

1094
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 2: And kind of you mystifying blood and you know, female

1095
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 2: body experiences in a way that you have to get

1096
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 2: past if you're not going to be a twelve year

1097
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: old boy err entire life.

1098
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 5: I mean, in her relationship, being part of this group

1099
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 5: is important to her and it is helpful to her.

1100
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 5: I don't Yeah, I don't really agree with the points

1101
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 5: in this letter at all until except the last one

1102
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 5: about the Damsel in Distress business. This is the most

1103
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 5: resonant character in the movie.

1104
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 2: For me.

1105
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 5: It's the fear in the film is that registers most sharply,

1106
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 5: and I thought it was treated just fine.

1107
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that she is not afraid of her sexuality.

1108
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 4: She is afraid of what her father may do to

1109
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 4: her because of her sexuality, and that is a very

1110
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 4: different thing that said. I mean, I said at the time,

1111
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,919
Speaker 4: We've said it before you say it. I'll say it again.

1112
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 4: The whole Damsel in Distress thing is eazy and boring

1113
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 4: and just a particularly egregious choice since it's such a

1114
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 4: big change from the book. And I felt the same

1115
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 4: way about the kissing thing as you did. But I

1116
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 4: guess I let that one go because it's so obviously

1117
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,399
Speaker 4: a like, how do how do we respect the fact

1118
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 4: that Stephen King has a giant child orgy in his

1119
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 4: book without doing any of it. So I kind of

1120
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 4: felt like I took that one with a grain of salt,

1121
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 4: just because like they're sort of nodding at it in

1122
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:17,439
Speaker 4: the most squeamish way possible.

1123
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 2: It was kind of like that could have gone worse.

1124
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, Well, okay, where are we going to take this? Oh? Nowhere?

1125
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 4: All right? Thank god. Finally, a listener named Blake wrote

1126
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 4: in to let us know that when we read his

1127
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 4: letter about It Comes at Night several episodes ago, we

1128
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 4: misidentified him as Quentin. Sorry, Blake, we did not mean

1129
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 4: to do that. We did get a letter in the

1130
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 4: same movie from a listener named Quentin, and we're guessing

1131
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,280
Speaker 4: it was a cut and paste error in the script.

1132
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,959
Speaker 2: To be fair, those are both super cool names, they are.

1133
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,760
Speaker 4: And just so similar. They sound so much alike. As always,

1134
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 4: we appreciate when our listeners share their thoughts and the recommendations,

1135
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 4: and in future we will try to appreciate it so

1136
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 4: much that we consistently get your names right. To reach us,

1137
00:54:58,200 --> 00:54:59,879
Speaker 4: you can leave a short voicemail at seven to seven

1138
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 4: three two three four nine seven three zero, or email

1139
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 4: us at comments at next pictureshow dot net. We may

1140
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 4: feature your response on a future episode or post it

1141
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 4: on Facebook for discussion. That wraps up this episode to

1142
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 4: the Next Picture Show. In part two, we'll jump thirty

1143
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 4: years into the future of the future and see how

1144
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 4: Villainu's version of Blade Runner mixes and matches with the

1145
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 4: one Hampton Fancher took from Philip K. Dick. And we

1146
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 4: absolutely promise we will not in any way provide the

1147
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 4: definitive ruling on whether Deckert is a replicant. Look for

1148
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 4: that later this week, or, better yet, subscribe to The

1149
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 4: Next Picture Show on Apple Podcasts or your podcatcher of choice.

1150
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 4: Find us at Next Picture Show dot net, follow us

1151
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 4: at Facebook dot com, slash Next Picture Show, and follow

1152
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 4: us on Twitter at Next Picture pod so you'll always

1153
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 4: know when a new episode drops. Until then, we'll be

1154
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 4: scouring YouTube for footage of attack hips on fire off

1155
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 4: the shoulder of Orion. Somebody has to have had their

1156
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 4: Facebook live on while that was happening, right, We'll see

1157
00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:05,479
Speaker 4: you next time. Back