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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey there, you are listening to Coast to Coast AM.

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Speaker 2: Happy Saturday or Sunday to you. Connie willis here with

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Speaker 2: you and our guest tonight, Chuck Hall, PhD, retired psychotherapist

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Speaker 2: and an author. Now you can go and get his

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Speaker 2: book and learn more about well everything else he has there.

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Speaker 2: You can just go to Chuck Hall online dot com

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Speaker 2: Chuck Hall online dot com and you can learn more

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Speaker 2: about it and see all the different things that he

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Speaker 2: has on there. Okay, so you're focusing on the differences

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Speaker 2: between making the claim that paranormal events do not exist

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Speaker 2: and also with holding personal judgment until convincing evidence is presented.

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Speaker 2: And then of course we know what is what is

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Speaker 2: convincing evidence when it comes to these types of things.

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Speaker 2: That's that's kind of the hard part there. Right, It's

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Speaker 2: a different science, don't you believe it's not. It's not

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Speaker 2: our laws of physics.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's part of that.

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Speaker 4: The whole thing is it's a different line for everybody.

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Speaker 4: So what I mean by that is what is convincing

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Speaker 4: to me might not be convincing to you. And where

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Speaker 4: do you follow.

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Speaker 3: On that spectrum. One of the reasons I wrote the book.

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Speaker 4: Is because the idea of hurting credibility. So there's a

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Speaker 4: story in there. The reason the book is called tin

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Speaker 4: Foil Aliens is because one of my friends dressed up

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Speaker 4: as the Alabama MetalMan and the Myler outfit. And if

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Speaker 4: you stretch credibility enough to think that an obviously cheesy

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Speaker 4: suit made by a bunch of teenagers is an alien,

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Speaker 4: then have you crossed that line?

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Speaker 2: Did you have a lot of people believe in it?

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Speaker 4: Well, at the time, the only people that knew about

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Speaker 4: it was the cop that took the pictures of the

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Speaker 4: Polaroi camera.

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Speaker 2: The cop was on it with you.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well he wasn't actually in it. He actually, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we kind of.

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Speaker 4: He was called out to see what all the fuss

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Speaker 4: was about. And uh, there was some person in a

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Speaker 4: farmhouse or somewhere that that called and reported it, and

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Speaker 4: he came out to take the pictures.

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Speaker 3: And it wasn't until.

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Speaker 4: Maybe a year later a book came out about it.

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Speaker 4: I think it was called Beyond Earth. I don't remember now,

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Speaker 4: but that picture, one of the polaroids that he took

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Speaker 4: was on the front cover.

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Speaker 3: Of that book.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're all excited about that. You know, we hadn't

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Speaker 4: even graduated high school yet. And here's the picture of

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Speaker 4: one of us. And then we got the book and

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Speaker 4: there was like maybe two paragraphs about the whole the

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Speaker 4: whole thing. So all of that effort and we got

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Speaker 4: two paragraphs.

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Speaker 3: In one book.

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Speaker 2: But amazing you got anything, though, And was it Were

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Speaker 2: they talking about how you did hoax it or did they.

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Speaker 4: Say, oh, they were they were saying that was a

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Speaker 4: real you know, Alabama, it was invaded by MetalMan alien

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Speaker 4: and that sort of thing. And that's what I'm meant

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Speaker 4: by pretty incredibility for the people who actually see something

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Speaker 4: legitimate and believe something legitimate is going on, like like

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Speaker 4: the Navy fighter jet pictures and things like that, that's

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Speaker 4: you know, that pushes that credibility and neel pretty pretty

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Speaker 4: far over onto the side of maybe there's something to this.

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Speaker 4: But if you're on the other end and you're just

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Speaker 4: believing everything that comes out there, some some teenager in

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Speaker 4: a tinfoil suit is an alien, then you're hurting the

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Speaker 4: credibility of the people who actually are interested in this

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Speaker 4: phenomenon and want to see what might really be going

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Speaker 4: on if that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: No, it makes total sense. It makes total sense.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I've run into some people that have told me about

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Speaker 2: other people creating hoaxes for the for the whole reason

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Speaker 2: of not not like what you guys did, mm, but

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Speaker 2: more of Hey, I want to see how many people

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Speaker 2: I can, you know, just make them believe that this

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Speaker 2: is real. And well, what we did for well, I

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Speaker 2: guess so I'm saying that I'm trying to I'm going now,

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Speaker 2: I think you did it for the same reasons.

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Speaker 3: Well, and that's the thing.

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Speaker 4: The difference there was we never tried to capitalize on it.

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Speaker 4: We were not there starting a UFO cult or anything

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Speaker 4: like that. And you know, and the far end of

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Speaker 4: the extreme end of that spectrum is things like Heaven's Gate,

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Speaker 4: where all the people committed suicide because they lead a

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Speaker 4: flying saucer was gonna it was in the Tale of

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Speaker 4: Haley's comment. I think it was one of the comments, yep,

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Speaker 4: and was going to take everybody off to paradise if

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Speaker 4: they committed suicide.

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Speaker 3: At the right time.

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Speaker 4: So that's that's another one of those dangers of believing

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Speaker 4: too too much. On the on the end of well,

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Speaker 4: I don't need any evidence. I just believe this because

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Speaker 4: I want to so. And again that line is different

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Speaker 4: from every for everybody, So it's up to you to

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Speaker 4: decide where that line is for you. But just keep

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Speaker 4: in mind that there are people out there, especially there

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Speaker 4: was no Internet when we were doing all this.

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Speaker 2: Oh you had a little viral man, and.

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Speaker 3: That's the thing.

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Speaker 4: People are doing that for the purpose of being having

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Speaker 4: viral videos and monetizing YouTube.

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Speaker 3: And all that.

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Speaker 4: So if you can better that in mind, and then

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Speaker 4: plus you can download software for free now that you

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Speaker 4: can make fake UFOs on videos and.

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Speaker 2: Everything, the AI and all that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: Now, yeah, AI and everything else.

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Speaker 4: So if there that's one of the things that you

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Speaker 4: look at when you're trying to evaluate the evidence is

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Speaker 4: is there any ulterior motive.

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Speaker 3: Or they profiting off of this in any way?

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Speaker 4: And there's some examples in the book of some rather.

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Speaker 3: Famous hoaxes.

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Speaker 4: Where people got money off of it, So what is

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Speaker 4: the incentive there?

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Speaker 2: So when you were fourteen, did you go, Okay, we're

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Speaker 2: going to like fake some people out here. Let's put

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Speaker 2: this tenfoil is my Laura all over you, all this

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Speaker 2: kind of thing, and then one day I'm going to

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Speaker 2: write a book about it.

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Speaker 4: Actually, I have to give a credit to my daughter

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Speaker 4: for that, because she I raised a little paranormal.

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Speaker 3: Person here something. She's a she's in her thirties now.

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Speaker 2: So oh, but.

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Speaker 4: She's the one that told me about the Shehala's Flying

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Speaker 4: Saucer party, and she said, you should really.

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Speaker 3: Write a book about all that. So you know, she

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Speaker 3: grew up here in the stories, and so I said, okay, well, sure,

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Speaker 3: I'll write a book.

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Speaker 2: And here we are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And she.

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Speaker 4: Reminded me during the break I was chatting with her online,

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Speaker 4: and she reminded me that she was actually in the

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Speaker 4: car with me when that when we saw the flying saucer.

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Speaker 4: Are the big black Delta or the black.

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Speaker 2: Triangh with you? Oh? Excellent? Yeah, that's a great thing

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Speaker 2: to see. Is one of those you got? I think

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Speaker 2: you're doing another book here shortly on something else?

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Speaker 3: Is it Sasquatch Chef?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah? Have you seen any of those before?

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Speaker 3: Probably?

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Speaker 4: Okay, okay, Well there's this three different Sasquat stories. I'll

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Speaker 4: tell two of the shorter ones because the other one

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Speaker 4: is kind of long and involved, and I'm going to

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Speaker 4: say something for the.

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Speaker 2: Book, right, Oh, that's true. Just listen. Now, you don't

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Speaker 2: have to buy the book, everybody, don't worry about it.

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Speaker 2: He can keep his lights on some other way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: But the the second one. The first one, I'll tell

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Speaker 4: you about the book, But the second one. I had

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Speaker 4: just moved to Pensacola, Florida, and we were going out

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Speaker 4: to a friend's house and he lived in a fairly

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Speaker 4: remote area close to the swamp there in Pensacola. And

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Speaker 4: when we got there, he was like full blown panic.

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Speaker 4: He almost didn't answer the door, and he had the

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Speaker 4: shotgun and he was running around the living room and

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Speaker 4: his sliding glass door was in pieces on the ground

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Speaker 4: around the house. And he said that they called him

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Speaker 4: skunk apes in Florida. He said there was a skunk

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Speaker 4: cape trying to get into his sliding glass door, so

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Speaker 4: he shot at it. And so we went around looking

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Speaker 4: around the house, and you know, it says Florida. So

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Speaker 4: the yard is basically sand. There's not a whole lot

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Speaker 4: of grass in it, and there were several bigfoot prints

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Speaker 4: out in the lawn. So I didn't actually see the creature,

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Speaker 4: but I saw the princes and you know, shooting your

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Speaker 4: own sliding glass window I just to perpetrate a hoax

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Speaker 4: with two or three other early twenty Yeah, yeah, a

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Speaker 4: little far fast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And the second I was out hiking in the Appalachians

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Speaker 4: and I heard it was up on the side of

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Speaker 4: a hill. The trail kind of was cut into the hill,

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Speaker 4: and I heard a grunt up over my head at

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Speaker 4: the top of the hill, and I just stepped back

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Speaker 4: just enough to be able to see, and I saw

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Speaker 4: something running away, and if it was a bear, it

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Speaker 4: was running upright, and it was ten feet tall, and

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Speaker 4: black bears and the apple Aachians don't usually get that big.

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Speaker 3: So that was the third encounter.

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Speaker 2: That was the third one. What was the other one,

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Speaker 2: the second one? Yeah, the first one.

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Speaker 3: The first one I'm saving for Yeah, come.

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Speaker 1: On, come on, Well, I will say that.

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Speaker 4: I encountered uh. When I was a child, I encountered something.

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Speaker 4: I grew up on a farm in rural South Carolina,

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Speaker 4: and I encountered the what you would describe as a

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Speaker 4: bigfoot or a sasquatch out in the woods there, and

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Speaker 4: they just kind of sat there and looked at me

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Speaker 4: for a while, and then.

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Speaker 3: I went away.

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Speaker 4: But it, I don't know if you want to call

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Speaker 4: it telekinesis or whatever. But it kind of gave me

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Speaker 4: a message and.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my speak absolutely, what'd you get?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just just basically, well the title of the book

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Speaker 4: is a Sasquatch is my spirit animal. So just basically

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Speaker 4: some stuff that wouldn't mean anything to anybody but me

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Speaker 4: about my life's mission and that.

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Speaker 2: Sort of thing that's pretty neat, like guiding you of

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Speaker 2: or didn't you know what was going to happen in

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Speaker 2: your life kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And then when I started doing research for the book,

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Speaker 4: I found out that where we lived in South Carolina

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Speaker 4: was a place called the Nation. And I always wondered

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Speaker 4: what it was called the Nation. And the reason it

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Speaker 4: was called the Nation is there was a fairly large

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Speaker 4: Cherokee settlement there back you know, way back in the

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Speaker 4: of the day. And so when I was researching for

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Speaker 4: the book, I found out that Cherokee used to have

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Speaker 4: a relationship with the Sasquatch. They would trade with each other,

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Speaker 4: and they were a whole civilized tribe and they had

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Speaker 4: these villages and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I believe that. And if I didn't believe that,

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Speaker 2: would you find that offensive?

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Speaker 3: That's the thing being offended.

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Speaker 4: Doesn't necessarily mean you're right, but then't necessarily wrong either.

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Speaker 2: I actually do get offended like that. It's crazy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's not to go too much into therapy

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Speaker 4: mode here, But if people get angry when you challenge

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Speaker 4: them on something like that, there's usually something deeper going on.

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Speaker 4: I won't speculate, you know, I don't want to want

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Speaker 4: to generalize. But if I tell you that I had

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Speaker 4: this experience or whatever, and then you tell me no,

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Speaker 4: I don't believe you, and then they get angry about it,

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Speaker 4: then there's something else usually tolay there.

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Speaker 2: So if you tell me a story, well an encounter,

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Speaker 2: because a story, that's a story, but okay, And if

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Speaker 2: I find it offensive and I deny you, like if

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Speaker 2: I deny you right now, of oh, come on, when

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Speaker 2: you were younger, one didn't tell you about your life

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Speaker 2: in the future. You're just so full of it. You

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Speaker 2: are just you know, you just want attention. And then

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Speaker 2: I start getting mad there's something wrong with me.

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Speaker 4: No the other one?

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Speaker 3: Oh oh yeah, the otherway around. So if I tell

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Speaker 3: you that.

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Speaker 4: I saw a guy dressed in tinfoil in a field

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Speaker 4: in Alabama one midnight and then you laugh at me,

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Speaker 4: and say, oh, you're sure you did, and then I.

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Speaker 3: Get angry about that.

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Speaker 2: You get angry.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's something going on there with me, because if

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Speaker 4: I saw it and I believe it and wanted her

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Speaker 4: to get angry about what if anybody else believes it

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Speaker 4: or not?

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Speaker 2: Huh? Well wait a minute now, okay, let me let me,

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Speaker 2: let me argue that a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Okay, sure, let.

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Speaker 2: Me argue that, mister therapist. Oh no, I'm going up

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Speaker 2: against that. This is scary, This is scary. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 2: all right, so okay, let's go back to Let's go

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Speaker 2: back to you saying as a child, you saw this

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Speaker 2: big foot y'all stared at each other and and it

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Speaker 2: mine spoke to you and told you about some things

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Speaker 2: coming up in your life. Right, yeah, yeah, okay. So

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Speaker 2: if I deny you of that and laugh at you,

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Speaker 2: and if you get mad, there's something wrong with you that.

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Speaker 4: If that bothers you, right, not necessarily something wrong, but

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Speaker 4: just something that you might want to look at a

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Speaker 4: little more.

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Speaker 3: Likewise, it's so important to.

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Speaker 4: You that you get validated by these other people.

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Speaker 3: I see that the.

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Speaker 4: Experience, and you believe the experience. Then okay, what does

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Speaker 4: the validation of these other people add to it.

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Speaker 2: I guess I've seen enough of that where I think

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Speaker 2: just some people, they just get upset. They're like, why

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Speaker 2: don't you believe me? Please help me. I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: figure it out. It bothers me. You know, people get

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Speaker 2: PSTD from this type of stuff too, and I think

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Speaker 2: at one point they're like, come on, please believe me.

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Speaker 2: Somebody validate me. You know that that helps as well.

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Speaker 3: What I meant there, if they actually have something that

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Speaker 3: cause them some trauma, I see. Not.

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Speaker 4: One of the signs of that is if you get angry, so.

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Speaker 3: I see you haven't resolved it yet with yourself.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm yeah. I you know, at one point you're

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Speaker 2: just like, well, you know, I've seen it. I don't

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Speaker 2: care what you say. Yeah, when people start saying, I

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Speaker 2: don't care what you think, but here's I'm going to

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Speaker 2: give you this story anyway, right you know, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go on a circuit and talk about

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Speaker 2: it with everybody. I don't care what you say. That's

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Speaker 2: what I'm going to do.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, Well, and that's something kind of amazing.

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Speaker 3: I mean I've done I do.

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Speaker 4: I've been doing workshops for all of my professional career.

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Speaker 4: I'm currently trained therapists and mindful ecotherapy, and I've been doing,

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Speaker 4: you know, some sort of presentation or workshop probably for

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Speaker 4: the last twenty years, at least once a month, and

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Speaker 4: I will whenever I speak on this topic. There's some

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Speaker 4: of the most died in the Wold skeptical people that

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Speaker 4: you can come up to the coffee table and say, oh,

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Speaker 4: by the way, let me tell you this, people you

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Speaker 4: would never believe would have any kind of inkling of

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Speaker 4: this sour stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've experienced it myself. I totally get that. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 2: good stuff.

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