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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to cool people who did cool stuff

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Speaker 2: like grow food cooperatively. I am your host, Margaret Kiljoy,

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Speaker 2: and with me today is returning guest friend of the pod,

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Speaker 2: the writer and podcaster Courtney Cosek. Hi, how are you?

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Speaker 1: Hi? Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I hear that you have a book coming out,

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Speaker 2: a memoir, and I can even look over your shoulder.

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Speaker 2: This is an audio medium, so people can't look over

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Speaker 2: your shoulder. But I see the cover of your book.

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Speaker 1: It's a very sexy cover, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: It is? I love it.

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Speaker 1: I did not mean to be on the cover. I

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Speaker 1: am on the cover a younger version of me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I wrote down all of my most mortifying experiences and

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited for people to be able to order

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Speaker 1: them and read them on the internet.

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Speaker 2: What's it called? I mean, I can see it. It's

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Speaker 2: on the thing behind you.

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Speaker 1: But Girl Down Wild. It's basically an unwitting feminist coming

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Speaker 1: of age tea shirts on the Girls Gone Wild Tour.

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Speaker 1: It's all of my fucked up experiences in Hollywood. It's abortion,

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Speaker 1: it's sexual assault, it's squirting.

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Speaker 3: It's cool and you're also doing an audiobook, right, does

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Speaker 3: that come out the same time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm hustling to try to get it out at

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Speaker 1: the same time. But yeah, I'm reading my audiobook as

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Speaker 1: God intended, and I think it's going to be good.

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Speaker 1: Who's the publisher for your book? I don't think I

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Speaker 1: asked you that Trio House Press is a press out

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Speaker 1: of Minnesota, my home state. Yeah, and so it just

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Speaker 1: feels right. Yeah, so yeah, so excited.

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Speaker 2: Did I tell you my one Girl's Gone Wild story? No,

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Speaker 2: it's not a very direct story. I couldn't remember I

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Speaker 2: told you last time you were on Okay, to be clear,

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Speaker 2: not anti sex worker porn at all, me neither, but

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Speaker 2: very anti girls gone Wild. When I was younger, I

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Speaker 2: read a lot about the labor practices and lack of

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Speaker 2: labor practices. Yes, yes, I know the Girl's Gone Wild

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Speaker 2: and I was really bitter about it.

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Speaker 1: Were you early to this because people didn't know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I mean this story is like two thousand

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Speaker 2: and four.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was there two thousand and five, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't know, so you were way ahead of the curve.

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Speaker 2: It might have been two thousand and five. I don't know. Well,

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Speaker 2: maybe I yelled at your bus because that's the story

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Speaker 2: is that I was purchasing art supplies at a dramatic

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Speaker 2: discount from a store in Manhattan, and I walked out,

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Speaker 2: and I should have run away like one does when

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Speaker 2: one purchases art supplies in a legitimate manner, but instead

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Speaker 2: I saw the Girls Gone Wild bus parked like a

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Speaker 2: block over with like a line, and I think they

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Speaker 2: were doing an event or something, and I just kind

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Speaker 2: of saw red and started screaming a thing that I

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Speaker 2: think I could get sued for if I said on air,

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Speaker 2: but girls Gone Wild? Guy is a fill in the blank.

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Speaker 2: He all gone Wild? Guy is a fill in the blank.

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Speaker 2: And I just did that till I lost my voice

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Speaker 2: and then I went back home. That's my story.

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Speaker 1: Yes, when we were in on Vancouver Island, I remember

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Speaker 1: it as someone wrote pornographers on the bus because it

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Speaker 1: was when I realized, like, oh, we're making like actual porn.

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Speaker 1: But my coworker remembers it as someone wrote pedophiles on

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Speaker 1: the bus and it was like, oh shit, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so you were not the only one to react.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like I held which I think you should now

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Speaker 2: bleep out because I don't want to get suited or

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Speaker 2: is he like I don't know how.

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Speaker 1: There's been some criminal stuff but you can still bleep

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Speaker 1: it out. Yeah, anyway, we're going to talk about cooler

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Speaker 1: people than that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, this is nothing to do with that. I

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Speaker 2: was like, Oh, I should come up with a story,

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Speaker 2: and then I was like, I've been thinking about two

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Speaker 2: things kind of obsessively lately, and it's funny because they're

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Speaker 2: really opposite directions, but they're both just the way that

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Speaker 2: my mind is responding to the current crisis, and one

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Speaker 2: of them not what we're talking about today. I'm thinking

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Speaker 2: about partisans, and there's going to be a whole bunch

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Speaker 2: of episodes about partisans and people fighting Nazis coming up

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Speaker 2: for some weird reason that one's a little more obvious.

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Speaker 2: But the other thing that I've been like thinking about

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Speaker 2: a lot lately for whatever reason, is workers cooperatives. And

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Speaker 2: I started thinking about the fact that the history of

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Speaker 2: the cooperative movement in the US, it was an incredible

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Speaker 2: amount to black people, especially black farmers, and how that's

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Speaker 2: a story that doesn't really get told most of the

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Speaker 2: time when you look at the history of cooperative movement,

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Speaker 2: which almost no one does anyway, So we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about some black cooperative farmers and some wild shit

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Speaker 2: that they got up to. Have you heard much about

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Speaker 2: any of this?

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Speaker 1: No? I was like way too old when I learned

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Speaker 1: about black cowboys, so like open my mind.

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Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, I learned a lot about black cowboys

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Speaker 2: from that podcast that I think is called Black Cowboys

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Speaker 2: as a limited series? Have you heard this?

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Speaker 1: No? I need to listen?

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Speaker 2: Is really good. I don't remember who put it out.

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Speaker 2: It's a limited series. It's just a story about a

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Speaker 2: bunch of black cowboys, and it gets into some of

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Speaker 2: the complicated questions that rooting for cowboys always brings up,

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Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, but I've actually talked a little bit

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Speaker 2: about this before on the show here and there, and

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Speaker 2: I was trying to figure out when and I looked

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Speaker 2: it up. I did some episodes about birth control and

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Speaker 2: people's right to choose to not just have abortion, but

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Speaker 2: to have kids, and how both of these were under

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Speaker 2: attack a lot in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, right,

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Speaker 2: and I specifically talked about this organizer, Fanny lou Hamer.

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Speaker 2: Have you heard of this woman?

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Speaker 1: There's just the name's like vaguely familiar, but I have

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Speaker 1: no idea the story totally.

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Speaker 2: She's one of these people who like actually did an

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Speaker 2: incredible amount who's just like not quite spotlighted. Yeah, for

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Speaker 2: a lot of reasons that we can all imagine that

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Speaker 2: have to do with misogyny and also like not really

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Speaker 2: a spotlight seeking person to any degree that I can

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Speaker 2: find out.

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Speaker 3: I know her from like voting rights stuff.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she is not as known for the two

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Speaker 2: things that I know are from just one in nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty one. This is what we talked about on the episode.

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Speaker 2: Fanny lou Haemer was sterilized without her consent.

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Speaker 1: What the fuck?

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Speaker 2: And they were in there anyway doing some other shit,

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Speaker 2: and they were like, ah, we believe in eugenics. This

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Speaker 2: happened to I believe thousands or tens of thousands of

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Speaker 2: women of color in the twentieth century. Oh no, like

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Speaker 2: this was wildly common, and it was like straight up

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Speaker 2: They're like, ah, we just want to improve humanity, so

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Speaker 2: we're just going to sterilize people of color. It's real bad,

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Speaker 2: that's terrible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so that's most of what I talk about.

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Speaker 2: But then I talk a little bit about and this

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Speaker 2: isn't the main story, but I'm going to use this

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Speaker 2: as my framing story. She worked hard on black food

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Speaker 2: sovereignty through food cooperatives, and this is a part of

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Speaker 2: the civil rights movement no one fucking talks about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: She founded the Freedom Farm Cooperative in nineteen sixty nine.

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Speaker 2: And most farm cooperatives are going to be like commercial ventures.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of cooperatives that I endorse and support

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Speaker 2: our commercial ventures. They're for profit businesses and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: Freedom Food Cooperative was a bit of a commercial farming venture,

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Speaker 2: but it was largely like a way to get people

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Speaker 2: growing their own food by having access to all of

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Speaker 2: this land and growing like they didn't grow cash crops.

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Speaker 2: By and large, people are like, grow your vegetables. We

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Speaker 2: want people to be able to eat. And they also

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Speaker 2: had and I think this is really amusing, even though

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Speaker 2: I don't really eat meat, they had what was called

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Speaker 2: a pig bank, and it kind of rules. They bought

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Speaker 2: forty pigs and they started breeding them just to make

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Speaker 2: She was like, everyone needs have access to pork. I

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Speaker 2: just want people to be able to eat ham. So

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Speaker 2: we're just breeding a ton of pigs and people can

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Speaker 2: come get their pigs here.

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Speaker 1: I love the name.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the pig bank. Yeah, yeah, she has a quote

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Speaker 2: about it. This is like one of her favorite things.

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Speaker 2: And so she was like, quote, there's nothing better than

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Speaker 2: get up in the morning and have a huge slice

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Speaker 2: of ham and a couple of biscuits and some butter.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't take nothing for our golden pigs.

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Speaker 1: Where are we in the world?

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Speaker 2: The South, the US South, okay, but I don't remember

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Speaker 2: exactly where, okay, And this is the nineteen sixties, well,

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Speaker 2: early nineteen seventies. And she came from a long line

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Speaker 2: of black folks in the US fighting for access to

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Speaker 2: land in order to get economic and food sovereignty as

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Speaker 2: a way to be equal and free. In the US,

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Speaker 2: we talk mostly about when we talk about people fighting

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Speaker 2: for you know, civil rights and things like that, we

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Speaker 2: talk mostly about the political fight and like access to

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Speaker 2: voting rights and like getting rid of Jim Crow laws

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Speaker 2: and the Black codes and things like that. And then

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Speaker 2: there's the more direct action fight and you know, the

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Speaker 2: black nationalists stuff that kicked in and you have like

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Speaker 2: a much more sort of I mean actually militant activism

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Speaker 2: has been going on this whole time. To see the

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Speaker 2: war that they had or the black people who liberated

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Speaker 2: Harper's Ferry attempted to liberate Harper's Ferry. Most of the

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Speaker 2: people at Harper's Ferry weren't John Brown. John Brown's wonderful.

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Speaker 2: Most of the people there were not John Brown. But

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Speaker 2: we don't talk as much about and I'm saying this,

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Speaker 2: maybe there's a lot of people talk about this stuff

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Speaker 2: all the time. I don't know. I never ran across

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Speaker 2: it as much the like we're going to directly take

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Speaker 2: care of ourselves and like this is essentially kind of

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Speaker 2: a mutual laid style project, but it's about an economic fight,

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Speaker 2: and it's about economic equality as well as food sovereignty,

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Speaker 2: and that part actually is there are people who talk

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Speaker 2: about that whenever.

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Speaker 1: I've never heard it, honestly. I've also never heard that

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Speaker 1: during the bus stuff they were organizing car pools. Just

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Speaker 1: learned that as well. So real dumbass over here.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, that makes sense. It's so funny because yeah,

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Speaker 2: but people are like, you know, Rosa Parks just got

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Speaker 2: on a bus and you're like, nah, there's like organizers

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Speaker 2: and yeah, yeah, yeah. Now it would have been awesome

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Speaker 2: if she had like more power to her, but like

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Speaker 2: now even more power, Like no, you want to have

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Speaker 2: a strike, you need to have a strike fund, you know, like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she had a car.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Fanny lou Hamer. Her parents were sharecroppers.

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Speaker 2: If you are like me, and I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: ask you this question because I'm just gonna be the

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Speaker 2: one who says I don't know things. I only had

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Speaker 2: the vaguest idea of what the word sharecropper meant. I

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Speaker 2: know it was bad, yeah, and it was a bad

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Speaker 2: thing to be like. It was a bad thing a

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Speaker 2: system that got put on people that wasn't fair.

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Speaker 1: Is it like indentured servitude sort of?

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Speaker 2: It can become that, And we'll talk about that. But

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk a bunch about what being a

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Speaker 2: sharecropper is. That's actually gonna be a big bunch of

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Speaker 2: the context that's going to take up most of the episode,

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Speaker 2: because I love context. Her parents were sharecroppers, so they

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Speaker 2: grew up not doing great and having their wealth directly

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Speaker 2: stolen by almost certainly white people, though not actually necessarily.

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Speaker 2: But today we're going to get into one of the

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Speaker 2: earliest organizations that fought for black cooperatives. It's the earliest

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Speaker 2: organization that I can specifically point to. There's others that

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Speaker 2: might have done it, beforehand. This is an organization that

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Speaker 2: is not very famous today, but it terrified for white

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Speaker 2: Southern elites. It also and this part shocked me, and

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Speaker 2: it shocks the story. It's two and they're not sure

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Speaker 2: it's true. If its own internal reporting is to be believed.

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Speaker 2: This organization we're going to talk about today is the

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Speaker 2: largest black organization of any kind in the history of

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Speaker 2: the United States. Wow, far eclipsing the next largest. If

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Speaker 2: you ask Google and then it gives you an AI answer,

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Speaker 2: or you look at articles, they'll say the NAACP, which

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Speaker 2: is about three hundred thousand members, largest black organization in

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Speaker 2: US history. They claim one point two million people. Wow,

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Speaker 2: and no one's heard of it. Again, I'm not trying

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Speaker 2: to be like hipster about it. Like again, maybe some

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Speaker 2: people have heard of it, but like it just I

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Speaker 2: don't think I was taught about this. No, there's no

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Speaker 2: particular reason to believe their internal reporting on its own numbers,

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Speaker 2: and that reporting was done by its only white member.

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Speaker 2: But as we'll talk about, when historians are like, we're

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Speaker 2: not sure, they're not saying no, no, no, no, They're

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Speaker 2: saying we're not sure. Because we're going to end up

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Speaker 2: talking about a secret society buried within a secret society. Okay,

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Speaker 2: kind of, that's a splinter of a third secret society.

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Speaker 1: You had me at the first secret society.

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Speaker 2: You know, I know. This week we are going to

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Speaker 2: talk about the Colored Farmer's National Alliance and Cooperative Union.

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Speaker 2: It was at once a co op incubator, a buyer's

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Speaker 2: co op, a labor union, and a secret society with

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Speaker 2: a more direct action secret society nested within it. It

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Speaker 2: unfortunately comes to a crashing end to spoil the end

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Speaker 2: of this episode when white vigilanti violence interrupted it. But

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Speaker 2: that white vigilanti violence did not stop black cooperativism or

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Speaker 2: black farming, or black organizing or the potentially one point

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Speaker 2: two million people because only about twenty of them are

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Speaker 2: going to die. Yep, that's what we're talking about this week.

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Speaker 2: But first, do you know what I want to talk

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Speaker 2: about this week?

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Speaker 1: I'm on the edge of my seat.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about the sponsors of this show

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Speaker 2: and how every single one has your best interests in heart, right, Sophie,

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Speaker 2: that's true.

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Speaker 3: Right cannot from virgin and I.

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Speaker 2: Okay could potentially have your best interests in heart. There's

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Speaker 2: no way of knowing except using judgment and or searching things,

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Speaker 2: although it's getting harder and harder to get real information.

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Speaker 2: I usually type in read it afterwards to get humans

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Speaker 2: talking about it. But I bet that's only going to

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Speaker 2: work for another six months before the AI ruins that too.

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Speaker 1: But God, we appreciate them sponsoring this show.

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Speaker 2: Right, Oh yeah, no, yeah, they are completely possibly have

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Speaker 2: your best interests in heart. I can't say that they

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Speaker 2: don't unless it's gambling. Here's ads enter Beck. Most history

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Speaker 2: of the left focuses on urban labor, in particular who

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Speaker 2: owns the factories? That whole question. Some of that I

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Speaker 2: blame on Marx because he had a whole thing where

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Speaker 2: he hated the peasants and decided they were all reactionaries. However,

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Speaker 2: kudos to Marx when he realized that actually Russia was

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Speaker 2: the people doing the real shit and a lot of

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Speaker 2: them were peasants. He did change his mind on that one,

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Speaker 2: but for decades he was like, anyone who organizes peasants

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Speaker 2: is a right wing piece of trash. Hm. That's my

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Speaker 2: mark slander for the episode. Who owns the factories is

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Speaker 2: an important question, but I've found that actual on the

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Speaker 2: ground struggle focuses at least as much on the land

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Speaker 2: question who owns the land? Specifically, how come a few

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Speaker 2: rich assholes have all the land and force us to

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Speaker 2: work on it for a profit. We talked about that,

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Speaker 2: for example, on our episodes about Patagonia, where a little

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Speaker 2: over one hundred years ago, in nineteen twenty ish, about

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Speaker 2: a third of the country of Argentina was taken over

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Speaker 2: by anarchist and indigenous people in an uprising to break

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Speaker 2: the plantation system that held on for a while. Didn't

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Speaker 2: end great, that's the cool, people promised the top line.

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Speaker 2: Over and over again. Social movements have fought for what's

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Speaker 2: called land reform. The idea is that these big centralized farms,

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Speaker 2: usually called plantations, should be broken up so that there's

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Speaker 2: more owners. More farmers should own their own property. And

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Speaker 2: this is hard to fight for anywhere, but it's particularly

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Speaker 2: hard to fight for in the United States, which was

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Speaker 2: founded above all else on property rights, maybe above all

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Speaker 2: one else. White supremacy is up there too, so it's

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Speaker 2: particularly hard for people to fight for this to happen.

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Speaker 2: By getting the state to break up land monopolies. A

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Speaker 2: lot of countries, that's what people do. They're like, we

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Speaker 2: want a candidate that runs on land I'm not aware

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Speaker 2: of a serious candidate that has run in American history

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Speaker 2: on land reform. The war going to take shit away

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Speaker 2: from the rich people and directly give it to poor people.

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Speaker 1: It would be great, but I don't think that would

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Speaker 1: be a winning message.

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Speaker 2: No, certainly not to the people who have money.

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Speaker 1: Or even regular people who don't know they're best interest.

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Speaker 2: It's true, honestly, that is like, that's the uphill battle

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Speaker 2: of the left in America. Has it? Every other country

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Speaker 2: is like, what do you mean? You never like talk

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Speaker 2: about just you just take that stuff from the rich people.

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Speaker 2: They have too much of it. You can just have it.

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Speaker 1: We need to do some serious land reform.

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Speaker 2: In La probably, I like so many places, this is

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Speaker 2: the fight. However, we actually came close to the state

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Speaker 2: doing it in the Civil War. But we'll get to that. Instead,

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Speaker 2: people tend to fight for land reform by teaming up economically,

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Speaker 2: by forming cooperatives in order to compete. When small producers

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Speaker 2: can't compete, you team up and you become a bigger producer,

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Speaker 2: but horizontally instead of top down. In the American South

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Speaker 2: before the war, black farmers did the majority of growing

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Speaker 2: of food and cash crops. Right, It's like kind of

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Speaker 2: funny when people are like, don't think much of black farming,

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Speaker 2: when it's like just actually, most the agricultural workers probably

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Speaker 2: in US history, they weren't called farmers, however, these enslaved

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Speaker 2: people because people owned them. Ironically, the people who didn't

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Speaker 2: do the work were called the farmers or the planters,

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Speaker 2: but they did either of those things.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, that's so true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, its funny because we're like, oh, we don't

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Speaker 2: call them farmers. That's like a little bit much. We

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Speaker 2: call them the planters. And I'm like, I think that

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Speaker 2: more comes from plantation than putting crops in the ground,

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Speaker 2: you know. And it was these agricultural workers, the enslaved ones.

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Speaker 2: I bring this topic up over and over again on

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Speaker 2: this show. During the Civil War, they shut down the

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Speaker 2: economy of the Confederacy by enacting what historian W. E. B.

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Speaker 2: Du Bois refer to as a general strike. The greatest

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Speaker 2: labor action in US history was when enslaved workers didn't

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Speaker 2: work and prevented the Confederate economy from happening. Which is

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Speaker 2: like this actually was learned by the Greeks and the

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Speaker 2: Romans that if you build your entire economy on slavery

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Speaker 2: and the slavers. They're like, but we don't want to

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Speaker 2: do that. You're actually kind of vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: Did it work because they were so mean.

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Speaker 2: To those people, the Greeks and the Romans situation.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean at the enslaved people in the United States, like,

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Speaker 1: that's a great risk, you could get the shit beat

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Speaker 1: out of you.

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Speaker 2: No, so many of them died. But WB du bois

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Speaker 2: as a black historian an organizer from about a hundred

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Speaker 2: years ago, and his argument that I haven't seen people

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Speaker 2: like seriously refute. It's possible people have written refutations, but

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Speaker 2: his argument is that this was a key factor in

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Speaker 2: the winning of the war, was this labor action. And

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Speaker 2: so not only were there the black people who fled

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Speaker 2: north and then fought for the Union army or stay

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Speaker 2: south and worked as gorillas and worked behind the lines,

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Speaker 2: but actually just like black people won their own freedom

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Speaker 2: in a way that isn't talked about. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: keep doing this isn't talked about things, which I actually

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Speaker 2: hate when people do. But I'm genuinely annoyed that it

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Speaker 2: is like not the framing by which people understand that

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Speaker 2: like don't get me wrong. White Union soldiers fought and

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Speaker 2: died for that too, But black people won their freedom.

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Speaker 2: It's Wd Bois's argument I believe, and one that I

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Speaker 2: find convincing. Yeah, so black workers were no strangers to organizing.

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Speaker 2: Prior to the Civil War, most discussion around abolitionism revolved

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Speaker 2: around whether or not to respect the privacy rights of

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Speaker 2: slave owners. So most abolitionists were pushing for the gradual

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Speaker 2: emancipation of people, and often spoke about compensating slavers for

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Speaker 2: their financial loss. So people were like, oh, we have

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Speaker 2: to buy everyone's freedom. We have to stop letting them

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Speaker 2: buy new people, which they did when they stopped well,

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Speaker 2: they stopped the transatlantic slave trade legally, but they could

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Speaker 2: still enslave people and buy and sell people within the

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Speaker 2: United States. But like, all right, we could stop that

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Speaker 2: and then slowly everyone is free, or the next generation

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Speaker 2: is free. This is like what abolitionists we're talking about,

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Speaker 2: especially white abolitionists, will be shocked to know. Clearly that's

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Speaker 2: not what happened. During the Civil War. You had the

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Speaker 2: same sort of question applied to the land itself. Should

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Speaker 2: the plantation owners be allowed to keep their giant farms

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Speaker 2: and maybe the most famous proponent of the loll No,

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Speaker 2: of course not. Why would we do that. There was

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Speaker 2: a guy named General Sherman who was probably a bad person,

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Speaker 2: but I'm not sure because the thing I know about

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Speaker 2: him I feel fine about.

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Speaker 1: I've heard this name. Tell me who is this person?

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Speaker 3: The reason why I know his name is because of

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Speaker 3: the tree.

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Speaker 1: The what the tree?

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Speaker 3: The sequoia tree. It's like, there's the most famous sequoia

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Speaker 3: tree is called the General Sherman tree.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know. Like again, I bet there's all

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Speaker 2: kinds of shit about him that I just don't know

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Speaker 2: because I've only read like maybe five articles about him.

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Speaker 2: But like where it stands, this union in General is

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Speaker 2: probably more famous in the South than he is in

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Speaker 2: the North because he is the one who practiced a

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Speaker 2: scorched earth policy on the South. He had made his

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Speaker 2: way with his army. He wasn't like the big guy.

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Speaker 2: He was like in charge of I think the Western Front,

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Speaker 2: and he had taken Atlanta and then he was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to march to the sea. And they were like,

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Speaker 2: but we can't maintain supply chains. How are you going

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Speaker 2: to feed yourself? And he's like, I am going to

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Speaker 2: burn and loot my way across Georgia two hundred and

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Speaker 2: eighty five miles and just like set everything on fire,

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Speaker 2: destroy all the train tracks, and just fuck up the Confederacy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, he sounded like a dumbass, but now I love this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how many civilians he did or

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Speaker 2: didn't kill. Okay, you know that's where I'm like scorched

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Speaker 2: Earth policy like somewhere called him like the first modern general,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's because he did like total war,

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Speaker 2: which is like not usually a good thing.

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Speaker 3: Why did they name a tree after him? And why

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Speaker 3: it's the biggest tree in like the world.

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Speaker 1: Is ironic, isn't it?

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Speaker 2: But see, I'm coming out pro General Sherman based on

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Speaker 2: what I've read.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but like where's the connection to nature? The tree

435
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 3: in California.

436
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: They had to plant a lot of trees after his gorgioner.

437
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 2: Actually yeah, yeah, there's like fire just on the horizon

438
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 2: as his army moved through.

439
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 3: The largest tree on earth. Apparently, I've seen it. It's incredible.

440
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this man's a big tree. Maybe that's what

441
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 2: he came back as you know, it's two years old. Okay,

442
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 2: so he didn't come back as it. Maybe he's a

443
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 2: dryad who's attached to the tree, who left the tree,

444
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 2: joined the Union army, was like, I'm going to fuck

445
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 2: up the Confederacs.

446
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 3: He's an end.

447
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 2: Well, well, dryads were like spirits who like live in

448
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 2: the tree and then like go back to the tree.

449
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 2: You know.

450
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 3: Wow, he's two point seven pounds, two hundred and seventy

451
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 3: five feet tall and one hundred feet wide at it's trunk.

452
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would leave. If fucking that guy was fucking

453
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: walking towards me, I'd be like, you can set my

454
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 2: house on fire. I gotta go.

455
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 3: I've seen the street. It's incredible. I just want to

456
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 3: know who. Okay, I'll do it on my own time. Guys,

457
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, I want to know more about tree. Is

458
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 3: this podcast not all about tree? Magpie?

459
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 2: I need to do more episode all about tree. This

460
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 2: is a true fact.

461
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: Crops, I mean some crops.

462
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: That's true. As he went or as his army went,

463
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 2: because he didn't do all the work himself, at least

464
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: ten thousand newly freed people joined their army like kind

465
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 2: of coming along. So like, certainly he wasn't killing those civilians.

466
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 2: He was making them into civilians. And he gets to Savannah, Georgia,

467
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: and he holds up there for a minute. And in Savannah, Georgia,

468
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 2: January nineteen sixty five, he goes and he meets with

469
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 2: black leaders in Savannah, mostly Baptist and Methodist minister and

470
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: asks like, what do you need? Like we're freeing you all,

471
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 2: what do you need? And so then he declared Special

472
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 2: Field Orders Number fifteen, which is the famous forty acres

473
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 2: in a mule promise.

474
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: They were like, we need everything, like we're starting from zero.

475
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, he has like twenty thousand people now who like

476
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 2: need a place to go, or maybe forty have read

477
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 2: a bunch of different numbers, and he's like, what are

478
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: we going to do with them? And he's like, whoa,

479
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 2: we did confiscate a fuck ton of land from the Confederates.

480
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 2: Let's just split it up into forty acres. And then

481
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 2: I believe the mule was like a loone and he

482
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 2: wanted to give it to newly freed folks. And this

483
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 2: led to the formation of the very first Freedman's Bureau,

484
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 2: a governmental organization that was existing to try and help

485
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 2: folks who've just been freed. And I actually read, but

486
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 2: I didn't successfully find more information. I read like one

487
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: sentence in an academic paper from years ago that in

488
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: eighteen sixty two, so three years before this, another Union

489
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 2: general was like, fuck, yeah, let's start splitting the their

490
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: land and given it to people who we free. You know,

491
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 2: so this has been going on for a minute. There

492
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 2: was an actual consideration of doing land reform at the

493
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 2: point of a bayonet in a musket.

494
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: But they didn't go through with this, right because right,

495
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: nobody got reparations.

496
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: So I'm going to get to that. Yeah, okay, sorry, yeah, no.

497
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 2: The Civil War is like one of the most interesting

498
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 2: half revolutions in history, where like they like started to

499
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 2: do some real shit and then white supremacy was like,

500
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: we don't want you to do that. Yeah, rewind Yeah,

501
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 2: yeah we can call them free I guess, but like

502
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 2: no to everything else. And so yeah, you have this

503
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 2: moment of actual quality followed by an enormous backlash. Usually

504
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 2: the people doing the backlash are white Southerners, but the

505
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: forty acres promise was broken by a US president who

506
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: I believe was born in Ohio. Because the Civil War

507
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 2: was mostly over after the Confederates surrendered on April ninth,

508
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: eighteen sixty five, and then a couple of days later, famously,

509
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: Lincoln wanted to go to the movies, but they hadn't

510
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: invented the movies, so he got stuck going to a play.

511
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 2: And that turned out to be a bad idea, Yeah,

512
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: because instead of waiting for movies to be invented, an

513
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 2: actor shot and killed him.

514
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, they can't do that in the movies.

515
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: I know, it can't come out of the screen. I

516
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 2: actually don't think. I actually can't remember if John Wilkes

517
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: Booth was in the play, but like I think he

518
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 2: wasn't on his off night. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And so

519
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 2: the vice president was Andrew Johnson, and he became regular president.

520
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 2: And this is honestly one of the single most consequential

521
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 2: and bad things in US history is that Andrew Johnson

522
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: became president. And Andrew Johnson was a Democrat. Just to

523
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: reiterate for everyone, in the nineteenth century, the political positions

524
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: of the Republican and the Democrats were opposite. Roughly, Lincoln

525
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 2: was a Republican and he was slightly progressive. He was

526
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 2: called a moderate Republican compit of the radical Republicans who were,

527
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,479
Speaker 2: you know, actually a decent ideas.

528
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 3: Which president are you saying was born in Ohio?

529
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: By the way, is Andrew Johnson not born in Ohio? No?

530
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: Where was he born?

531
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 3: North Carolina?

532
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: I love this fact check.

533
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 3: Yeah Andrew Johnson.

534
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just wrong. I can't remember who was born

535
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: in Ohio. There was someone else who I was reading

536
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,640
Speaker 2: about who was born in Ohio but then mostly did

537
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 2: his work in Louisiana, And I got those two conflated.

538
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 2: I know that Andrew Johnson was like one of the

539
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 2: only people or maybe the only person who like, when

540
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 2: the South succeeded, he was like, no, I'm gonna stay

541
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: with the North. So he's a war Democrat, a Democrat

542
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: who actually wanted to beat the Confederacy. And so Lincoln

543
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: he had had a i believe Republican vice president his

544
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: first term, but he wanted to win reelection real bad.

545
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 2: So he was like, I'm going to play to the

546
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 2: center and I'm going to let this kind of right

547
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: wing guy be my vice president.

548
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: That's really rare, right.

549
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not a I'm sure they're a bunch of

550
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: joint party tickets, but like, not while I've been alive,

551
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: I've never heard of one. Yeah, and also the country's

552
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 2: Civil War, normal rules probably don't apply, but Andrew Johnson

553
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: had been picked to make Lincoln more popular with white Southerners.

554
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,959
Speaker 2: So Andrew Johnson becomes president and he fucking sucks, and

555
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 2: his whole thing is don't help the freedomen and pardon

556
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: the slavers. So he immediately not only stops giving land

557
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 2: to the freedmen, he reverses it and gives all the

558
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 2: land back to the plantation owners.

559
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: What the fuck?

560
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 2: And the country is now fundamentally different and more racist

561
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: than it would have been.

562
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: Where's Congress? I would just where's Congress?

563
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: Then?

564
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: Where's Congress? Now?

565
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: I don't know. I started getting lost in the like

566
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: I'm gonna read more, but I was like, this is

567
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: the whole rabbit hole. I started down as I was like,

568
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,719
Speaker 2: did Lincoln have to pick democrat? You know? Like I

569
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: was like, and then I was like, man.

570
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 3: This isn't They're all just do you know, off being cowards.

571
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: I'm disappointed. I just want to say I'm disappointed.

572
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: And also like probably a lot of them fucking agreed

573
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: with this shit, right, like, because it's like Lincoln was

574
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: a racist. He oversaw the largest mass hanging in US history,

575
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: which is indigenous people.

576
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: The one in man Cato.

577
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: I actually can't remember where it was. One day, I'll

578
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: do a like. I'll just do a like. Margaret alienates

579
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: most of our audience by going through and doing the

580
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: Revolutionary War was a counter revolution, and the Civil War

581
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: was a good thing led by a bad person who

582
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: was better than all the other bad people. But that

583
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: is a story for another time.

584
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: Would listen, okay, And who knows.

585
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll do more research and change my mind. I

586
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: try to imagine that I'm someone who changes my mind

587
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: when presented with new information. He also Andrew Johnson. He

588
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: tried to stop the fourteenth Amendment to keep freed people

589
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: from becoming citizens. Okay, so he again he just sucks.

590
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: He does suck. So people were freed, but they were

591
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: left nothing. Many immediately ended up working on the same

592
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: fields they'd already been working for, for the same landowners,

593
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 2: and often going deeper and deeper into debt every year.

594
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: But if you don't want to go deeper in debt,

595
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 2: you can have a really good selective decision making around

596
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: the ads, and that will help you. Because here's the

597
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: ads inwer back.

598
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 3: So I figured out why that tree is called the

599
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 3: General Sherman because it was named after Sherman, and the

600
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: guy who named it after was James Wolverton.

601
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 2: That's a sick name.

602
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 3: It is he served under Sherman.

603
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, hell yeah.

604
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 2: So he went around and burned Atlanta and then went

605
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: out west and named a big ass church.

606
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 3: He named the tree to honor his former commander.

607
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: So I specifically don't want to learn more about Sherman

608
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 2: because I don't want to dislike him, because right now

609
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: I know, but later I'm about to do a Lucy

610
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: Parsons quote. But there was this black anarchist named Lucy

611
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: Parsons who talked about in one of her quotes from

612
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: a million years ago, she has this quote that's something like,

613
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: I don't have it in this script. This is a

614
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: different script. It's something like, we must devastate the avenues

615
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: upon which the rich live, much like General Sherman devastated

616
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 2: the Shenandoah Valley.

617
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: That's a good metaphor.

618
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: So I want to like Sherman, and I therefore don't

619
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: want to read more about him because I think he

620
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: actually wasn't particularly I think he was like fine, he

621
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: was just like, I'm going to beat the South that's

622
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: what I'm going to fucking do you know he.

623
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 3: Was, oh no, a white guy in the eighteen hundreds.

624
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they're all held against the bar of John Brown,

625
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 2: and some of them get anywhere near it, and most

626
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 2: of them don't.

627
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 3: I want to know why nobody's named a giant tree

628
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 3: after me, That's what I want to know.

629
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: Not yet, there's still times. Yeah, there's still time.

630
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 3: Like you know how Trump keeps doing the thing where

631
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 3: he keeps putting his name on everything, not a single tree.

632
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 2: Dear listener, if you have access to a CNC machine,

633
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 2: I want you to make a brass plaque and say

634
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 2: this tree is named Sophie ray Lictormen. Yeah, and put

635
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: it on the biggest tree you can find.

636
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 3: Very crucial, but it's brass.

637
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't want you three D printing a plastic

638
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: one like it's gotta look legit. If you don't have

639
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: a CNC machine, this instruction is not for you. Unless

640
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: you know someone who does. Go to your local makerspace,

641
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 2: convince them to and you know what, there could be

642
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: multiple trees named Sophie ray Lictmen.

643
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: I love learning your middle name.

644
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: I feel like I just shouldn't have said your middle

645
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: now I say it on the internet, all of okay, great,

646
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: it's all good.

647
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 3: My entire family calls me Sophie Ray of Sunshine.

648
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: So oh, that's so cute.

649
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 3: It's because of this gosh darm blonde hair.

650
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 2: So all these people are free and they're kind of fucked.

651
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: Labor organizers at the time openly call this wage slavery.

652
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: This term has fallen out of use because people, for

653
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: understandable reason, don't want to conflate getting a wage with

654
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: being owned. But the comparison was apt, especially at the time.

655
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: Lucy Parsons, the person who I'm now introducing as if

656
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 2: I didn't just introduce a second ago, a black labor

657
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: organizer who was born and slaved and was the hero

658
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 2: of the very first episode of this show, put it

659
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: like this in her essay The Negro from eighteen eighty six, quote,

660
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 2: you are the modern Hellet you sow, but another reaps.

661
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: You till the soil, but for another to enjoy. The

662
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: overseer's whip is now fully supplanted by the lash of

663
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: hunger and the auction block, by the chain gang and

664
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: the convict cell. The same land which you once tilled

665
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: as a chattel slave you still till as a wage slave. Yes,

666
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: she could write. Yeah, And hallett was a word that

667
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: I didn't know, so I went and looked it up.

668
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,719
Speaker 2: And I've decided one of the main premises of these

669
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 2: shows is that I'm going to assume that the listener

670
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: doesn't know things, because I often don't know things.

671
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: I didn't know that.

672
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a social class of people in the

673
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: areas controlled by the Spartans and yee oldie toga times,

674
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: and people argue about their exact role, but basically, especially

675
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 2: back then, they were seen as like somewhere between enslaved

676
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 2: and free. By my read, they were basically serfs, like

677
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 2: they were tied to the land. Another really good writer,

678
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: nearly a century later, doctor Martin Luther King, told NBC quote,

679
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: Emancipation for the Negro was freedom to hunger. It was

680
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 2: freedom to the winds and rains of heaven. It was

681
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: freedom without food to eat or land to cultivate, and

682
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 2: therefore it was freedom and famine at the same time.

683
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, fucking way with words. Both of these motherfuckers. Yeah,

684
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 2: both would probably not want to get called the motherfucker now,

685
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: be honest, losing Barsans might have been all right with it. Yeah,

686
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: but most freedmen didn't want to work for wages. They

687
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: wanted to work for themselves. And there's a thing that

688
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 2: I'm inferring from one old scholarly article that again I

689
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 2: lost myself learning so many rabbit holes on this episode.

690
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 2: But I believe that southern large landowners were legally compelled

691
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 2: at various points the premise that all of the laws

692
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 2: kept changing state by state, county by county, and year

693
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 2: by year. I believe that large Southern landowners were legally

694
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: compelled to offer people land to rent instead of just

695
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: hiring them outright as workers, which is sort of an

696
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 2: interesting compromise and almost sounds good, but it's not. It

697
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: goes bad. So most of the workers end up what's

698
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: called sharecroppers, or if they're lucky, tenant farmers. I am

699
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 2: sure I learned about sharecropping in school. I can't blame

700
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: this one on my education, because the public school I

701
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: went to wasn't absolute trash. But I also needed a

702
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: refresher and a deeper analysis of sharecrop. So sharecropping, you

703
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: asked me at the top of the episode, I can't wait. Okay, Basically,

704
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 2: a lot of big landowners rented out parcels of property

705
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: for people to work. But rather than do something normal

706
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 2: that I already consider exploitative, like charge rent. Right, but

707
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 2: that's normal. That's not high on my list of things.

708
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 2: I'm mad at the context. The owners didn't charge rent,

709
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 2: They charged a cut of the proceeds of what was grown.

710
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: They wanted their renters to go deeper and deeper into

711
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 2: debt with them. Until nineteen sixty six. This is shockingly

712
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 2: I didn't get this number wrong. Nineteen sixty six, debt,

713
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 2: PI andage was legal in the United States. People could

714
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: be compelled to work for the people they owed money to.

715
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: Corney has the same look that all of the rest

716
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 2: of you have on your face if you didn't know.

717
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 1: This, I'm horrified. Okay, so what were the splits here?

718
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: Okay? So I did write down the splits, even though

719
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 2: again different in different places. So at first, newly freed

720
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: people had some leeway and their contract negotiations with landlords.

721
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 2: Black people, after all, were often the majority of voters

722
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 2: in an area until voter suppression and the Black Codes

723
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 2: and Jim Crow laws swept away all that progress. So

724
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: at first black people were able to organize somewhat effectively

725
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: and not get as raw of a deal or even

726
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: just get land. Thanks to the presence of federal troops,

727
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 2: free people were able to start setting up their own institutions,

728
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 2: and especially churches were crucial to all parts of life,

729
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 2: including economic life. Basically, all of these black farmers would

730
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: meet up at church and then figure out how to

731
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: collectively not get fucked over and keep the price of

732
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: corn from dropping. Black people were able to start exerting

733
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: market power even when they were the renters of land.

734
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 2: Federal troops left in eighteen seventy seven, working conditions got

735
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 2: way worse. To quote author Bruce J. Reynolds, quote, institutions

736
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: and arrangements for agricultural production in the South evolved further

737
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 2: away from incentive based relationships to increasingly rely on more

738
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 2: command and control over farm laborers. So instead of being like, Oh,

739
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: you're going to kind of work your way towards freedom,

740
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 2: it's like, nah, you're going to work your way towards debt,

741
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 2: pe andage. Imagine farming as a sort of ladder, but

742
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 2: don't imagine a ton of mobility around this ladder. It's

743
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: funny when people use ladder to represent hierarchy, but that

744
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 2: implies that you can climb it. Yeah, there's not a

745
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 2: lot of climbing happening. It's not in my script. I

746
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 2: remember this number because it used to be about twenty

747
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 2: five percent of black farmers got wealthier during the second

748
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 2: like the last quarter of the nineteenth century, and the

749
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: other seventy five percent stayed the same or got poor,

750
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: mostly got poorer. I think the bottom rung of this

751
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 2: ladder is sharecroppers. If you have no money and no land,

752
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 2: you can't really start farming with nothing. You need tools,

753
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 2: you need seed, you need food to keep going. You

754
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: need a house over your head while you farm. Right. Fortunately,

755
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 2: the land owner, the plantation owner, or actually these other

756
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 2: like traveling folks would loan you the tools you needed

757
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 2: and pay for the seed and often for your house

758
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: and your food. And in exchange you owe him about

759
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 2: half the proceeds of what you grow.

760
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: And you have to pay for the shit or you

761
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: owe them for the shit.

762
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I believe on top of the rest. Yeah,

763
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: and when you're a sharecropper, again, different different times of places,

764
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 2: these aren't like as rigid of categories as people want

765
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: them to be. Most of the time, the owner, the

766
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: guy you owe money to is going to take all

767
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: your crops, sell it and then give you your share back.

768
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 1: Oh, a super trustworthy person is going to take your

769
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: cross to market grace.

770
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: Yeah huh. Even if these people who had just owned

771
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 2: you were scrupulously honest, you are getting fucked. Yes, you

772
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 2: don't get to see the numbers. You probably got told

773
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 2: it was illegal for you to know how to read

774
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: the numbers your entire life. Yeah, most were anything but honest.

775
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 2: But even if they were honest, you're fucked. If for

776
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 2: any reason, you get unlucky that season and have a

777
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 2: worse than usual yield or just any other reason, you

778
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: might end up owing more than you made, and now

779
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 2: you literally have to work off your debt. And again

780
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 2: you're often forced to work on the plantation you were

781
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 2: just owned on. And the system of I own what

782
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 2: you're going to grow was called a crop lean like

783
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 2: lean on your crops. Oh yeah, I know this word, okay, Yeah.

784
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: And it wasn't just the landowners who would get crop leans.

785
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: You also had furnishing merchants who would give you food

786
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 2: and supplies and get a lean on your crops. Some

787
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 2: sharecroppers got a furnished deal where the owner provided supplies

788
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 2: and food, and you have to give up even more

789
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 2: of your crops. Maybe an unfurnished person would give up

790
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,919
Speaker 2: a quarter of their crop, and a furnished person would

791
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 2: give up path. I've heard sharecropping described as a compromise

792
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: between black people want land and white people want to

793
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: own black people like ah, both have a valid point.

794
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: The black people want land and the white people want

795
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 2: to own them. And that's oddly accurate as how to

796
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 2: describe sharecropping. And it's also the problem with assuming that

797
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 2: compromise is inherently good.

798
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: Ah.

799
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 2: Yes, there's something in logic called the compromise fallacy, where

800
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 2: you just assume that the answer is between two points.

801
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 2: You know, a step up from sharecropping was tenant farming.

802
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 2: This still isn't what you think. You're still not paying

803
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: a regular rent. Maybe you're paying a quarter of your

804
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: profits of what you grow. But since you own your

805
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 2: own tools and you're buying your own seed and all

806
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 2: of that, you have more control over your economic life.

807
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: And you might actually be the ones selling the merchandise

808
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 2: and passing over a quarter of what you make. So

809
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 2: a tenant farmer is in a better situation, But you

810
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 2: have to start with something to get to be a

811
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 2: tenant farmer, right, you have to have enough money to

812
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 2: own your own tools and like pay your own overhead

813
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 2: ahead of time.

814
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: Sorry, can you just one second? Okay? So the tenant

815
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 1: farmers are unfurnished. Am I understanding this rate?

816
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 2: Yes? Correct? And I think that there's like a blurriness.

817
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: I think it's possible that unfurnished sharecropper is another word

818
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: for tenant farmer. Those two situations are very similar, and

819
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 2: tenant farming in practice wasn't actually that much better than sharecropping.

820
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: If you slip into debt, then down the ladder you fall.

821
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 2: And before Jim Crow laws, there might be laws preventing

822
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 2: the most exploitive labor practices and contracts, like your local

823
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,879
Speaker 2: area could be like all right, you can rent land

824
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 2: to people, but you can't charge more than this or that. Right,

825
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 2: But soon enough these disappear with Jim Crow laws above,

826
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 2: the tenant farmers were the cash tenants who did what

827
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 2: you might imagine, like when I think of a tenant farmer,

828
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 2: this is what I imagine. You pay some rent for the land,

829
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 2: and then that's what you do. You just give them

830
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: some money and it's a set amount. You know, if

831
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 2: you're more productive, you keep more of your profit. You know.

832
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: The is that how it worked.

833
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 2: So that's tenants, and they were rare. I believe they

834
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 2: were rare, but it's possible that they actually just don't

835
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 2: get talked about as much because they're like less evil,

836
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 2: so people don't really I couldn't find as much written

837
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 2: about the cash tenants in the second half of the

838
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 2: nineteenth century in the US Sex.

839
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: That's like renting a chair at a salon or whatever.

840
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: It's like a set amount. If you do a lot

841
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,720
Speaker 1: of hair that month, you get your money. But then

842
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: these people are paying by percentages, right, most of the

843
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: people you're talking about, right, Oh.

844
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 2: That's actually interesting because there are a lot of industries

845
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 2: where you go and you pay a percentage of Like

846
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 2: I bet you there's some hair salons, but I don't

847
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 2: know where you pay a percentage to the people who

848
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: own it instead. Oh, but I don't know as much

849
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 2: about hair salons. I know the thing you're talking about

850
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: renting a chair. That makes sense. Of course, Above tenant

851
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: farmers are the people who own their own land and

852
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 2: work it for themselves, and then above them are the

853
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 2: people who own their own land and have other people

854
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 2: work it for them. Despite small scale farming being the

855
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: sort of core of American identity, like when you imagine

856
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 2: a like when a Republican is like the best American,

857
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 2: they probably fucking grow corn on a small plot of land,

858
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 2: you know, m m. This was very rare. Even before

859
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: the Civil War, they were called yeoman, like yeo M

860
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 2: A n and they were like, you know, before the

861
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 2: Civil War was all white. Actually, I don't know if

862
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 2: that's true. There might have been freedman who who did that. Anyway,

863
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 2: Yeomen were fairly rare. But after the Civil War, especially

864
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 2: with advances in mechanization, it's just like the small farmer

865
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 2: is like not competing, and so eventually cooperative farming becomes

866
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 2: the only real way to compete with the plantation system.

867
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: That's crazy that that was happening way back then, and

868
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: like it's just getting more extreme as we go forward.

869
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: I know.

870
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 2: There's like when you read about like the Gilded Age

871
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 2: and the problems, you're like, oh, man, I wish I

872
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 2: could look back to those old days where we only

873
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: had to deal a millionaires. Not some weird man is

874
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 2: about to go hom a trillionaire unless something really funny

875
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: happens like him losing his money. I'm not saying it anyway, whatever, Okay, I'm.

876
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 1: Interested in the funny option whatever they are.

877
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, yeah, funny, no matter what if you just

878
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 2: stops having money for whatever reason. And slowly, over this

879
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 2: set course of the latter half the nineteenth century, white

880
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 2: people start falling into economic hardships, especially small farmers, the yeomen.

881
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 2: They're losing out more and more, so they become sharecroppers too.

882
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,879
Speaker 2: By the end of sharecropping, most sharecroppers are actually white.

883
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 2: And this is like a fact pointed out by mostly

884
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,439
Speaker 2: racists who want to be like we suffer too whatever,

885
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, but it seems to be true, right.

886
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 2: And it didn't help that a lot of these white

887
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: yeomen were convinced to go all in on cotton farming,

888
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 2: and cotton prices kept dropping in the last couple decades,

889
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 2: the nineteen hundreds, so like you're like, this is going

890
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 2: to be the new thing. We're going to become cotton farmers.

891
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 2: And then you just lose all your money and now

892
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: you owe money to people, and now you're in debt,

893
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: and now you're a sharecropper forever. Great, Yeah, sharecropping reached

894
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 2: its peak of three hundred ninety two eight hundred and

895
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 2: ninety seven black sharecroppers in the South in nineteen thirty.

896
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 2: A good time, right, Yeah, things were really going well

897
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 2: economically in nineteen thirty, that's what I remember. And all

898
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 2: the shit about keeping black people sharecropping instead of owning

899
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 2: this was intentional, at least for plenty of the white owners.

900
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 2: It wasn't just like, ah, capitalism sucks. I guess you know,

901
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 2: you're just kind of poor, so I guess I own everything.

902
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 2: Booker T. Washington relates the following story in Country Gentlemen

903
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 2: magazine written in the nineteenth century. I forgot right down

904
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 2: the year, but it was in nineteenth century. Quote. In

905
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 2: one case, I happened to remember a family that had

906
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: three or four strong persons at work every day that

907
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 2: was allowed to rent only about ten acres of land.

908
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 2: When I asked the owner of the plantation why he

909
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 2: did not let this family have more land, he replied

910
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 2: that the soil was so productive that if he allowed

911
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 2: them to rent more, they would soon be making such

912
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 2: a profit that they would be able to buy land

913
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: of their own, and he would lose them as renters.

914
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, motherfucker.

915
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: This is one way to make the negro inefficient as

916
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 2: a laborer, attempting to discourage him instead of encouraging him.

917
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 2: So yeah, they're just like, nah, no, I don't want

918
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 2: to like let you get ahead because I like being

919
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 2: in charge.

920
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: Yeah my competition.

921
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so interesting that raw capitalism actually would have

922
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 2: been better instead of the white supremacist capitalism say more, well, okay,

923
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 2: so like raw capitalism would have been like, oh, the

924
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: market decides everything, then like this person can get ahead

925
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 2: and get a little bit wealthier this particular family, right yeah, yeah,

926
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 2: But instead they're applying white supremacism and being like, no,

927
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 2: I don't want those people to get ahead, so I'm

928
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 2: going to work the market against them. Now, obviously raw

929
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: capitalism wouldn't have been nearly as good as what they

930
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 2: were trying to do at the beginning, which was like

931
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,439
Speaker 2: we're going to pass laws that say only the good

932
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 2: contracts can happen where everyone does okay, and there's mobility,

933
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 2: and you know, we get a slight leveling of society. Ohs,

934
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 2: weren't socialists no, no, no, yeah, yeah, but it's funny,

935
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 2: is yeah, they're like not even like wild radicals. They're

936
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 2: not like, we're gonna make everything equal, you know. They

937
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 2: were just like, what if we made this slightly more fair? Like, no,

938
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 2: we're gonna kill you for thinking that. That's the start

939
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 2: of the KKK. And you might think to yourself, well,

940
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 2: at least we can look back at history and everyone

941
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 2: knows that this system was wrong, right. I found while

942
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 2: doing this research the Oklahoma Historical Society, which still has

943
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: the following written on their site. Quote. During the period

944
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 2: of reconstruction, the radical Republicans in Congress tried to divert

945
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 2: the freedmen into small, freeholding farmers, but the farmer slaves

946
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 2: were simply not ready to manage their own farms. What

947
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:01,240
Speaker 2: emerged out of necessity was Southern farm Tennis, a system

948
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: of near slavery without legal sanctions.

949
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: That's what they currently say.

950
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they had no choice, and they're still willing

951
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 2: to admit that it's sharecropping's real bad. They're like, it's

952
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 2: near slavery.

953
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: You know, Hello, those guys were running the farm.

954
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you no, it's yeah, they just couldn't manage

955
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: it on their own. And if you're wondering, I wonder

956
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: if the Oklahoma Historical society will only present tenant farming

957
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: is bad because it impacted white people. Well, I have

958
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 2: another quote for you. Quote. What began as a device

959
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 2: to get former slaves back to work became a pernicious

960
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 2: system that entrapped white as well as African American farmers.

961
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 2: After nineteen hundred, the system of white tenant farmers grew alarmingly.

962
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 2: By nineteen thirty five, nearly half of white farmers and

963
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 2: seventy five percent of black farmers in the country were landless.

964
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 2: I liked it. They were like, well, it was necessary,

965
00:49:55,280 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: but then white people could come up in it. No, oh,

966
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 2: never change Oklahoma US changed. Please change Oklahoma.

967
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: Please.

968
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,799
Speaker 2: I beg of you change. One of my listeners. I

969
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 2: know who I talk to on a somewhat regular basis

970
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 2: is in Oklahoma and is aware. And I'm sorry. I'm

971
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 2: not sorry. I'm sorry that Oklahoma is like that. I'm

972
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 2: not sorry for picking on the country, country state. Whatever.

973
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 2: So the middle of the nineteenth century is when you

974
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 2: get the rise of the labor movement in the US

975
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 2: and internationally. But we're talking about the US. Most of

976
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,720
Speaker 2: the labor union focused on urban workers, but various groups

977
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 2: started in parallel working to protect agricultural workers and sharecroppers

978
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 2: and yeomen and all of that, and also rural interests

979
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: against city interests. It does not map neatly left right.

980
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: The first of these groups is still around, the National Grange,

981
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 2: usually just called the Grange or the Granger Movement. And

982
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 2: this was started as a secret society by a Mason

983
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 2: in eighteen sixty seven, and I believe it let women

984
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 2: in from the start, and I straight up, after about

985
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 2: an hour of looking, don't know if they let black

986
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: farmers in. And I never check AI, but sometimes I

987
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 2: google shit and it gives me an AI result, and

988
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 2: props to AI at stopping lying when I'm searching this anyway,

989
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 2: Actually this is a duck duck go. But it's like,

990
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 2: we don't know. The AI is like not enough information.

991
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 2: It's a movement that's still around and has tens of

992
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 2: thousands of members. You think we would know. I assume

993
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 2: they were segregated if they let black farmers in at all.

994
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: Sorry I'm dumb, but remind me what a Mason is.

995
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 3: I know?

996
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: Ah, yes, how have you not listened to every single

997
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 2: episode of this show? So the Masons are a secret society,

998
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 2: a fraternal order. They are not the like sketchy evil

999
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: thing that people present, right, But they're real and they're

1000
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 2: a secret society. Everything was a secret society back in

1001
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 2: the day if you wanted a fraternal order, and everyone

1002
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 2: did because it was kind of the only way to

1003
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: get taken care of like insurance. Your insurance would come

1004
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 2: from your fraternal society. You would join one of these societies.

1005
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 2: You go to their lodge, their meeting hall. They have

1006
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 2: like secret initiation rituals and shit, and be like you're

1007
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 2: going to learn the secrets of the universe. But really

1008
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 2: you go there because like if you get sick, they

1009
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 2: pay for you. How bizarre, and they pay for that

1010
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 2: with their like membership dues. We did a whole bunch

1011
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,879
Speaker 2: of episodes about them. It's actually interesting. I know less

1012
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: about the modern Masons, but they actually started pretty leftists

1013
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: because their whole thing was we're fighting for the rights

1014
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 2: of the Enlightenment, which is complicated and leads to a

1015
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,479
Speaker 2: lot of colonial stuff, but like overall was people trying

1016
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:36,919
Speaker 2: to be on the right side or the left side

1017
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 2: of things.

1018
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 1: But they couldn't just be like, we'll do insurance without

1019
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 1: the weird.

1020
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 2: Right, which I approve of. I gotta admit the way

1021
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 2: that people used to do insurance so much less exploitative

1022
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 2: and had so many more secret handshakes, you know. But

1023
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 2: I watched this movie recently about friend of the Pod

1024
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 2: Peter Kerpak and his anarchist Prince of Russia who became

1025
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 2: an anarchist and did all this shit. But he's also

1026
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 2: like mostly an evolutionary biologist who studied animals and developed

1027
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 2: all the ideas of like the modern ideas of mutual

1028
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 2: aid in the animal kingdom come from this guy. He's

1029
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,279
Speaker 2: one of my favorite people. I watched this movie called

1030
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 2: Unrest that's this like Swiss movie, and it's the quietest

1031
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 2: movie I've ever seen. There's like no soundtrack, but it's

1032
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 2: really good and engaging, and it's about his time in

1033
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 2: Switzerland hanging out with anarchist watchmakers. And that's what makes

1034
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 2: him an anarchist is he shows up to make a map,

1035
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 2: is just like, oh, y'all are kind of cool. And

1036
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:35,920
Speaker 2: there's this scene at the beginning of it. And I

1037
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 2: believe this is true because I've tracked down the historian

1038
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 2: who was on the movie, but I haven't tracked down

1039
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 2: its sources because all of it's in Swiss German. But

1040
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 2: there's a scene where in the big watch factory, which

1041
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 2: is not the anarchist union watchmakers, this woman is like,

1042
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 2: as a single woman, I can't get insurance. You're only

1043
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: allowed to get insurance through the main places if you're

1044
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 2: a man or a married woman. And her friend who's

1045
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 2: making a wash next door is like, oh, go to

1046
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 2: the anarchists. If you give three percent of your pay up,

1047
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:09,280
Speaker 2: you get insurance.

1048
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: Ah.

1049
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 2: And I believe that that was true, and that's not

1050
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 2: just because anarchists are cool. Every fraternal order. This was

1051
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 2: kind of the thing you do when you join a

1052
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:20,720
Speaker 2: fraternal or auroral order.

1053
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: They're like kind of feminist.

1054
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. Yeah, well, the anarchists were very actively

1055
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 2: feminist during this period.

1056
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: But the secret societies.

1057
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 2: Yes, well, and actually yeah, because you have the Mason

1058
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 2: starting the Grange and they let women in. I know

1059
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 2: less about their insurance. I don't know a ton about

1060
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 2: the Masons in this period or the Grange, but they

1061
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 2: have little sword canes the Masons, which is pretty sick.

1062
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 2: Anything is slightly better with a sword cane, except for

1063
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:50,919
Speaker 2: the things that are way worse with the sword cane.

1064
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: I really appreciated all that, Thank you so much.

1065
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, totally. This is why I'm fun at parties.

1066
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 2: I just sit in the corner until someone's like, I

1067
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: don't know about this thing, and I still keep my mouth.

1068
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 2: But then if someone's like, I don't know about this thing, Hey, Margaret,

1069
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 2: do you know about this thing? Then I get to

1070
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 2: tell everyone about this thing. Yes for it, Yeah totally.

1071
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: Unless I don't know. I try not to be like

1072
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 2: AI if I don't know things, I try not to

1073
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 2: be like, oh, this is how we know that AI

1074
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 2: was made by men. It can't say I don't know.

1075
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: That's so good. You should add that. Do stand up

1076
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 1: and yeah, that's a good joke from it.

1077
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, the National Grange, I don't know as

1078
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,280
Speaker 2: much about them as I should. They're still around. Again,

1079
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 2: this isn't the point of the episode. And it was

1080
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 2: started by a Mason eighteen sixty seven. And then there

1081
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 2: was a group called the Agricultural Wheel, which is an

1082
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 2: even cooler name because it's just what the fuck does

1083
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 2: that mean? That sounds like it's the Wheel of the

1084
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 2: Seasons and there's gonna be magic involved, and they're like

1085
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 2: an even more dramatic version of the Grange. I do

1086
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 2: know that they were segregated. I assume the grange was two,

1087
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,240
Speaker 2: but I couldn't find information about that. The Agricultural Wheel

1088
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 2: was a specifically Southern thing that aimed to mitigate the

1089
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 2: damage of the destruction of the old order caused by

1090
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: the Civil War and reconstruction. And they didn't like the

1091
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 2: tenant system. They claimed both tenants and landlords were suffering

1092
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 2: under this new system. I'm not really excited about them,

1093
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 2: besides their name. I'm going to be honest.

1094
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing a lot of suffering from the owners

1095
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: now yet.

1096
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 2: I think their argument they're like being forced so they

1097
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: can't hire workers, like at least in Arkansas. Because the

1098
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 2: article I read from eighteen ninety one or whatever the

1099
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,399
Speaker 2: fuck was about the Arkansas Agricultural Wheel. No, I don't

1100
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 2: think the owners are suffering too badly.

1101
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: I'm not buying it. They're like trying to keep the

1102
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,239
Speaker 1: other people under them.

1103
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then in eighteen seventy seven, a new group emerged,

1104
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 2: the Farmers Alliance, and we're going to talk about them.

1105
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 2: They were segregated too. We're more importantly going to talk

1106
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 2: about the Colored Farmers Alliance because they were really fucking cool.

1107
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about them and a bloody strike

1108
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 2: in eighteen ninety one on Wednesday. Oh that's my cliffhanger. Bye, guys, Yeah,

1109
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 2: well no, not bye, because first I want to hear

1110
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 2: about Girl Gone Wild?

1111
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: Oh more?

1112
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you want to know? Oh? I don't

1113
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 2: know elevator pitch that shit. I guess you kind of did.

1114
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: I sort of did.

1115
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 2: When does it come out?

1116
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: It comes out on April first.

1117
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 2: Can people pre order it?

1118
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: Yes? Shop at the bad place Amazon, It's okay, just

1119
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: for this one thing. Bookshop dot org is even better,

1120
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: it's true, or your local bookstore. You can ask for.

1121
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 3: It, request it at your libraries.

1122
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that would be awesome. I don't know. It's

1123
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 1: a small press book, but I just don't really stoked

1124
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: about the whole thing. And it took fifteen years to cook,

1125
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:57,919
Speaker 1: and like I was writing a book earlier that would

1126
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: have been embarrassing. I published it, and I'm glad that

1127
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: I like took the time to really, like, you know,

1128
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: let it evolve into a mature work.

1129
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 2: So hell yeah, And you're calling it a small press

1130
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 2: but the cover, this is all I can go on.

1131
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 2: So right now I haven't gotten my galley yet, but

1132
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 2: the cover's professional, like, and also the fact that there

1133
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 2: are galleys and the fact that it like is available

1134
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 2: for pre order, all this stuff. It sounds like they're

1135
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 2: just doing it right.

1136
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: They're doing really good work.

1137
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a shoddy operation.

1138
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 3: As long as I've known court she's been talking about

1139
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 3: should I do this book? Should I do this book?

1140
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,600
Speaker 3: And you fucking did it, friend, Thank you.

1141
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 2: It's sick.

1142
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: The only thing with small press, and you know this too,

1143
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 1: is just like you're sort of the project manager.

1144
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I like that.

1145
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 1: I actually, yeah, that's so you.

1146
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1147
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, per order Courtney's book, you cow. I mean lovely listeners.

1148
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 1: Honestly, you guys, you're gonna love it, like you're gonna

1149
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: love it.

1150
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, if you like fun story again, I haven't

1151
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 2: read it yet, but just from your elevator pitch, it

1152
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 2: sounds like a lot of fun stories and I don't know,

1153
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 2: from a smart person, and that's kind of all we

1154
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 2: want in books is smart people telling us fun stories.

1155
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 2: That's all I want. Well, I also want like weird,

1156
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 2: dry history books that actually tell me whether or not

1157
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 2: they were segregated and don't avoid the question. But that's

1158
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 2: that's my own interest and separate to the reading I

1159
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: do for fun. I'll see you on Wednesday.

1160
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: Bye.

1161
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 3: Cool People Who did Cool Stuff is a production of

1162
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 3: fool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1163
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 3: visit our website foalzonemedia dot com or check us out

1164
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,320
Speaker 3: on your radio appp A Podcasts, or wherever you get

1165
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 3: your podcasts.