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Speaker 1: School of Humans. We can also drive black car range

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Speaker 1: if this one, it'll make it, make it. This is

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Speaker 1: my grandma's car. Every time I drive up the steep

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Speaker 1: and curvy Arkansas Road into the Ozark Mountains, I have

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Speaker 1: two simultaneous thoughts. See look, look at these houses. You know,

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Speaker 1: the woods are beautiful and they're also terrifying. Things are

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Speaker 1: kind of falling apart. And also there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: space between a lot of these vacant houses. I've been

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Speaker 1: coming up here with my family since I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: and I have a lot of happy memories here. But

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Speaker 1: let's face it, there's a reason why so many horror

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Speaker 1: movies are setting cabins in the woods. Sometimes bad things

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Speaker 1: happen when no one is around to hear you scream.

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Speaker 1: We have no cell phone reception. Yeah, that's all. It

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Speaker 1: was on this desolate stretch of Highway nine in the

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Speaker 1: Ozarks between Mountain View and Melbourne that on September twenty seventh,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and four, searchers found the body of twenty

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Speaker 1: two year old Rebecca Gould. Rebecca was beautiful, popular, and

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Speaker 1: full of life, and her killing shooken area where the

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Speaker 1: murder rate was pretty much zero It's been fourteen years

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Speaker 1: and Rebecca's killer has never been found. The murder has

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Speaker 1: become one of the most notorious cold cases in the region.

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Speaker 1: But for me, this case is personal. I have a

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Speaker 1: long history with this area. My dad and my little sister,

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Speaker 1: Caroline still live in Mountain View. She went to high

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Speaker 1: school with Rebecca's younger sister, Danielle, and they are still

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Speaker 1: close friends. Even after I became a writer and private

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Speaker 1: investigator and moved to New York City, Rebecca's murder continued

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Speaker 1: to haunt me. Every time I went home to visit

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Speaker 1: my family, I would hear more rumors about the case. Occasionally,

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Speaker 1: a news station would do an update on the case,

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Speaker 1: illustrated with Rebecca blonde, dazzling smile with her white fluffy

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Speaker 1: dog in her lap. But over the years the leads

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Speaker 1: were fewer and farther between. I couldn't figure it out.

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Speaker 1: If everyone in town thought they knew who killed Rebecca,

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Speaker 1: why hadn't her case been solved. A few months ago,

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Speaker 1: I came back to the Ozarks. I wanted to catch

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Speaker 1: Rebecca's killer. I was supposed to stay for two weeks,

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Speaker 1: but I never left, and at some point my investigation

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Speaker 1: crossed over into an obsession. I'm not stopping until I

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Speaker 1: get justice for Rebecca. I'm Catherine Townsend and this is

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Speaker 1: Helen Gone. The last time Rebecca was seen alive was

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Speaker 1: a week before her body was found on September twentieth,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and four. It was a Monday morning, just

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Speaker 1: after eight am. Rebecca had been staying at her boyfriend

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Speaker 1: Casey's house for the weekend. Rebecca gave Casey a ride

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Speaker 1: to work in her black nineteen ninety seven Chevy Cavalier.

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Speaker 1: Casey was a cook at the Sonic in Melbourne. Rebecca

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Speaker 1: had met him about a year earlier when she worked

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Speaker 1: there as a car hop. But Rebecca's days of delivering

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Speaker 1: burgers on roller skates were over. She had recently moved

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Speaker 1: into an apartment in Fayetteville with her sister Danielle, and

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Speaker 1: was starting college at Northwest Arkansas. After dropping Casey off,

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Speaker 1: she stopped at the Possum Trot gas station in Melbourne,

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Speaker 1: where she bought a breakfast, sandwich and coffee. Rebecca's plan

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Speaker 1: had been to drive back to Casey's, pack her stuff

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Speaker 1: and meet Danielle to drive back to school. When she

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Speaker 1: didn't show up that afternoon, Danielle and the rest of

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Speaker 1: her family became alarmed. The next day, police showed up

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Speaker 1: at Casey's house. They found Rebecca's car parked outside. Inside,

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Speaker 1: they found her cell phone, purse, all of her clothes,

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Speaker 1: and her dog Lady. There was no sign of Rebecca,

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Speaker 1: but there were ominous signs that something very bad had happened.

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Speaker 1: There a blood soaked mattress that had been flipped over,

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Speaker 1: her uneaten breakfast sandwich, a washing machine full of blood.

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Speaker 1: Over the years, I've heard a lot of rumors. I

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Speaker 1: heard there was a party over the weekend, a fight

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Speaker 1: with a girl, a jealous lover. Someone even told me

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Speaker 1: that Rebecca was kidnapped, chained up, and held hostage in

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Speaker 1: a horse trailer. So our first job will be separating

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Speaker 1: fact from fiction. Taylor and James, who are both working

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, have come to Arkansas to help me.

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Speaker 1: They started out working on sound and logistics, but quickly

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Speaker 1: got sucked down the internet rabbit hole of topics, boards

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Speaker 1: and web slues. I know this look. They've been sucked

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Speaker 1: into the case too. Let's start with what we know

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Speaker 1: based on newspaper reports and the murder board. Are brought

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Speaker 1: with me from Manhattan, police released almost no details on

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Speaker 1: this case, and what's out there publicly is hard to

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Speaker 1: find a lot of it's not available online. So we

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Speaker 1: head to the library to look up old editions of

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Speaker 1: the newspaper on microfiche backpacks of persons? Do you need

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Speaker 1: to be out here in lockers though? Okay? And there

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Speaker 1: are four I don't know a lot of factable ones

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Speaker 1: are online. You're just going to go ahead somewhere. What

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Speaker 1: days that can you guys? Do? The day in September sixteenth?

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Speaker 1: Or was it started with a one? Right? Yeah? So

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Speaker 1: she went missing the next day, which would be there,

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Speaker 1: so this may have been the first day that she

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Speaker 1: was reported missing. Was on Tuesday? Yeah, although again we

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Speaker 1: need to we got kind of confirm that because everyone

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Speaker 1: tells me different day. Some people say Monday, some people

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Speaker 1: say Tuesday. I'm sure the police would at least confirm that. Maybe,

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Speaker 1: Oh there's search for one woman can das? Yeah? What

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Speaker 1: day is that? Friday? That is Friday twenty fourth and

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Speaker 1: you can see a picture of the missing poster. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Gould, blonde hair, brown eyes, one hundred and three pounds,

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Speaker 1: So Friday the twenty fourth, it made the Baxter Bolton

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Speaker 1: According to authorities, she had visited a friend of Guy

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Speaker 1: on last weekend and failed to return to Fatball in

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Speaker 1: her car with her purse, keys and money, and it

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Speaker 1: was found at the friend's house. The friend is not

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Speaker 1: considered a suspect of the disappearance, according to Arkansas State

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Speaker 1: Police Lieutenant Bill Beach. Yeah, see, in the beginning, it

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Speaker 1: was confusing because there was a report that she had

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Speaker 1: been seen that afternoon it looks like, but that was

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Speaker 1: later found to be not true. So it just kind

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Speaker 1: of goes to show like when stories come out after

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Speaker 1: the fact, there's often a lot of facts wrong. Official

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Speaker 1: suspectfile play there. It is what day is that is

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Speaker 1: that the weekend? Yeah, Saturday and Sundays at this for

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Speaker 1: quite time, there are several people of interest, no particular suspect,

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Speaker 1: So it says here I searched the area Monday morning

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Speaker 1: and found the body thirty five feet down the embankment

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Speaker 1: of the highway. I think that the George Derrick guy

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Speaker 1: knows because he was one of the first people's see

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Speaker 1: the body. Since we have no forensics and so few

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Speaker 1: details have been revealed about this case, we have to

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Speaker 1: focus on victimology. We have to enter the mind of

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Speaker 1: the crime victim so that we can understand the relationship

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Speaker 1: with her killer or killers. To understand her death, we

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Speaker 1: have to go back to the last weekend of her life.

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Speaker 1: So we had to talk to the person who knew

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Speaker 1: her best, her sister, Danielle starting route to Mountain Home.

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Speaker 1: So it was your sister that got you interested in

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Speaker 1: this or put this case on your radar in the

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Speaker 1: first place. Yeah, I mean I'd read about it, but Carolyn,

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Speaker 1: because Carolyen was friends with Danielle, I would hear about

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Speaker 1: it more. You know, like over the years, I would

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Speaker 1: just kind of hear what was going on, and then

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Speaker 1: it was unsolved, and then when I met Danielle, it

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Speaker 1: just got really personal. Rebecca was only a year older

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Speaker 1: than Danielle. They were best friends. When Danielle talks about

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Speaker 1: the day her sister was murdered, it's obvious she's not

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Speaker 1: just relaying information about that horrific day. She's reliving it.

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Speaker 1: It's sensitive subject matter. She has to talk about her

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Speaker 1: sister maybe being sexually assaulted and everything like that. This

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Speaker 1: is as close as we're going to get to being

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Speaker 1: inside Rebecca's head. In that final forty eight hours on

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Speaker 1: the friday before Rebecca disappeared, she and Danielle drove from Fayetteville,

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Speaker 1: where they had recently moved into an apartment together, back

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Speaker 1: to Mountain View. Like a lot of us at that age,

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Speaker 1: Rebecca's life was in transition. Danielle is visibly emotional as

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Speaker 1: she remembers the last conversation that she ever had with

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Speaker 1: her sister. She remembers that Rebecca was looking forward to

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Speaker 1: starting college, into the future, she had her whole life

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Speaker 1: ahead of her. When they got to town, the sister

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Speaker 1: split up. Danielle stayed with her boyfriend Nick, while Rebecca

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Speaker 1: headed out to spend the weekend with Casey. After Rebecca's murder,

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Speaker 1: Danielle went on to Mary Nick. They had two daughters,

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Speaker 1: but have since separated. She's been through some tough times

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Speaker 1: and had health issues that have affected her memory. Despite

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Speaker 1: how physically and mentally hard this is for her, she's

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Speaker 1: determined to help find her sister's killer. Can you just

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Speaker 1: sort of take me through what happened from the time

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Speaker 1: that you guys got in the car to when you

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Speaker 1: dropped her off and the last time you talked to her.

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Speaker 1: We got in the car and we started to drive

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Speaker 1: back home. We had a flat tire, like twenty miles

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Speaker 1: thirty miles away. She changed it. She could change his higher. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it surprised me. I can't remember if if I drove.

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Speaker 1: I probably drove to Nick's house and she, Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: probably dropped me off there, and she left to go

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Speaker 1: to Casey's and we were going to meet back up

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Speaker 1: Monday and go back to Fayebelle. Danielle remembers waiting for Rebecca,

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Speaker 1: the sinking feeling in her stomach when her sister never

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Speaker 1: showed up. Yeah, we were supposed to meet early that morning,

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Speaker 1: and I knew, I think I just knew something was wrong,

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Speaker 1: and we'd gotten phone calls, you know, she couldn't be

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Speaker 1: found driving out there, Like I mean, I was just

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Speaker 1: sick already just driving out there. She remembers driving up

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Speaker 1: to Casey's house and seeing the flurry of police activity there.

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Speaker 1: That was the moment when she figured out that her

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Speaker 1: sister's crash pad was a crime scene. Did you talk

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Speaker 1: to her that weekend at all? I don't think it did.

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Speaker 1: But that was not unusual, right like for her to

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Speaker 1: rise just had to start looking Over the next week,

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Speaker 1: police launched a massive man hunt for Rebecca. Friends and

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Speaker 1: family papered the town with wanted posters. Hundreds of volunteers

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Speaker 1: scoured the woods. It seemed like the whole town was

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Speaker 1: looking for Rebecca. Some of them screamed her name so

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Speaker 1: that if she was hurt and bleeding in a sinkhole

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Speaker 1: or a barn, she would hear them, And on September

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Speaker 1: twenty seventh, the search ended. She didn't deserve what happened

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Speaker 1: to her. If there was any other way to like

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Speaker 1: help get this out there without having to ask you

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Speaker 1: and prey through it, you know what, Like, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know she was a good person. I mean she loved,

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Speaker 1: you know, and cared for a lot of people. And sorry,

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Speaker 1: it's okay, it's fate, brain. I'm sorry, it's okay. I

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Speaker 1: guess I know that you guys were best friends and

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Speaker 1: really close, and I'm trying to understand what was going

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Speaker 1: on in her life before she died. We had just

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Speaker 1: moved to Fayetteville. We were living with Tiffany and my

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Speaker 1: other sister, and we were in college. She was trying

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Speaker 1: to make her lot better as far as getting into college,

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Speaker 1: moving on to Fayetteville, and becoming somebody. Which relationship been

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Speaker 1: like with the Isra County Police. I don't contact them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't contact anybody other than you. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I want it solved, but there's just no point. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what would you like to see happen? Someone actually care

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Speaker 1: and help us solve it and get the correct people

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Speaker 1: that took her life. Is it okay with you? I mean,

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Speaker 1: would you be okay with us calling your dad? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: That's fun, Like, that's perfectly fun. Okay, And you can

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Speaker 1: do anything you want to help, you know, get it solved,

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Speaker 1: because it's not fair to no one to lose someone

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Speaker 1: and then just to you know, not have any you know, closure.

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Speaker 1: I was challenging to listen to. She holds it together

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Speaker 1: incredibly well. You can feel it's just the pain in

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Speaker 1: her eyes. M Rebecca's body was found down as steep

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Speaker 1: Embankment off Highway nine, five miles south of Melbourne, near

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Speaker 1: Devil's Knob Wildlife Management Area. Even though the body was

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Speaker 1: near the road and just a few miles from the

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Speaker 1: Izard County Sheriff's Department, her body was hidden by a

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Speaker 1: thick wall of trees. It's a day that local journalist

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Speaker 1: George Jared, who covered the case extensively, will never forget

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Speaker 1: he saw Rebecca still wearing the black griefs and T

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Speaker 1: shirt she wore to bed. George was a twenty four

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Speaker 1: year old CUB reporter when Rebecca was killed, and hers

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Speaker 1: was the first murder case he ever covered. It's really

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Speaker 1: strange to say this, but I never knew her. But

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Speaker 1: there's no she had as a profound impact on my

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Speaker 1: career as anything. What happened was actually the newspaper work.

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Speaker 1: It was a weekly newspaper. I would call all the

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Speaker 1: police agencies in my coverage area. One of them was

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Speaker 1: the Izzard County Sheriff's Department, so I called them. It

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Speaker 1: was probably a Monday or Tuesday. She disappeared that Monday,

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Speaker 1: September twentieth, two thousand and four, and so I called them.

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Speaker 1: And I know I called him on Monday. I probably

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Speaker 1: called them on Tuesday. But you know, when you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with small agencies like that, they don't have murders, I

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Speaker 1: mean not very rarely. So i'd call them. They didn't

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Speaker 1: say anything, you know, it was, you know, well, nothing

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Speaker 1: going on here. George is right. I've covered a lot

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Speaker 1: of true crime cases, and I know that police often

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Speaker 1: hold back information that only the killer would know from

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Speaker 1: the public, but in this case, they won't even verify

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Speaker 1: basic information. Sometime Tuesday, they went to Casey McCullough's house.

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Speaker 1: The story is, you know, she went and dropped him

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Speaker 1: off at work, and then she went to the Possum

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Speaker 1: Trot convenience store, got a couple of things, and then

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Speaker 1: left went back to his house, and then somewhere sometime

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Speaker 1: during that morning she died. And so during this process

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Speaker 1: I actually met Danielle and surely her mother and Larry.

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Speaker 1: They were down at the sheriff's apartment when I went

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Speaker 1: down there, and I started talking to them. Literally the

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Speaker 1: next day, the Thursday, they were out around guy In

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Speaker 1: near where Casey McCullough's house is, and they were looking,

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Speaker 1: you know, searching, And I literally watched Larry taking posters

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Speaker 1: of his daughter and taping them to you know what

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Speaker 1: Those guide wires are arrows, I mean that go around

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Speaker 1: like a curve. And he was he I mean, obviously

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Speaker 1: you can't do that. Number one and number two, nobody

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Speaker 1: driving in eaty speed. We'd even be able to see

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Speaker 1: or make out what it was. But when I saw

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Speaker 1: him doing that, it just crushed me. And so so

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Speaker 1: I was out there searching with them, you know, looking.

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Speaker 1: The next Monday, I got to work really really early,

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Speaker 1: like five o'clock in the morning. I just went in.

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Speaker 1: I just had this feeling I need to go back

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Speaker 1: to Melbourne, and so I drove down there, went to

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Speaker 1: the courthouse. Now in the morning, a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: these elderly women would walk around the courthouse and they

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Speaker 1: were talking. There were several of them down there, and

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Speaker 1: so I parked my vehicle and I got out and

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Speaker 1: I walked up to him. A couple leads I heard.

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Speaker 1: I overheard a couple of ladies talking that there were

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Speaker 1: searchers behind or out near this woman's property somewhere. So

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Speaker 1: I said, could you tell me where you live? And

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Speaker 1: she told me, and it was out It was down

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Speaker 1: Arkansas nine, you know, connecting Mountain View with Melbourne, and

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Speaker 1: so she said, oh, yeah, they're out there, and she

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Speaker 1: had said something about a smell. I went out there,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I saw a bunch of cars like

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Speaker 1: lined up on the side of the road, and so

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Speaker 1: I knew something was there. Well, I ran into a

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Speaker 1: searcher that I had. He I'd met him through the searching,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd seen him, and I said Hey, I

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Speaker 1: heard you guys are out here looking for Rebaca out here,

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Speaker 1: and he was pointing, goes, she's right there, and i'sare

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Speaker 1: I mean, she was right off the road. She looked

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Speaker 1: like she was asleep. You know. One side of her

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Speaker 1: face was you know, seemed okay, and then the other

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00:19:15,925 --> 00:19:22,285
Speaker 1: side was, you know, very badly damaged and decomposing. Was

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Speaker 1: she whining down or sitting up or she was slumped.

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Speaker 1: It was like it was like she was in some

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Speaker 1: I want to say, like some There was like tree limbs.

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Speaker 1: It was really grassy. It almost looked like maybe she

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Speaker 1: had been where she had been tossed, like maybe she

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Speaker 1: had landed on a branch or something. I mean, but

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Speaker 1: when you see something like that for the first time

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Speaker 1: ever in your life, you're almost like you're not there.

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Speaker 1: At that moment, I was like just trying to get away,

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Speaker 1: Like I literally started walking back away from it. And

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Speaker 1: I had a camera with me, and I remember somebody

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Speaker 1: asked me, They said, you're gonna take a picture of that,

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Speaker 1: are you? And I said no, I said, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: try to forget about this. Probably spend the rest of

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Speaker 1: my life trying to forget about this. We'll be right

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00:20:06,525 --> 00:20:27,805
Speaker 1: back a little just where she walked out. Okay, thank you.

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00:20:28,125 --> 00:20:32,165
Speaker 1: Rebecca's father, Larry Gold, is a prominent dentist in nearby

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Speaker 1: Mountain Home. We meet with Larry in the back room

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Speaker 1: of his dental office, a converted house right in the

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Speaker 1: middle of towns. Taylor was so into the gate she

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00:20:45,805 --> 00:20:48,565
Speaker 1: drove from Atlanta. How long have you been here? So

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00:20:48,565 --> 00:20:53,165
Speaker 1: I've been here almost week on Saturday. As we talked

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Speaker 1: to him, his dental hygienis work around us. He has

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00:20:56,285 --> 00:21:01,285
Speaker 1: the same tan skin and dazzling smile as his daughter's.

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Speaker 1: Larry went to usc before marrying Rebecca's mom, Sharlot and

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00:21:05,885 --> 00:21:09,325
Speaker 1: moving here, and his accent is still more Southern California

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00:21:09,365 --> 00:21:12,925
Speaker 1: than northern Arkansas. People in this neck of the woods

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Speaker 1: fall into one of two categories. You're either from around

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Speaker 1: here or you're from off So even though Larry has

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00:21:19,965 --> 00:21:22,925
Speaker 1: lived in the area for over four decades, run a business,

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00:21:23,045 --> 00:21:26,205
Speaker 1: and raise a family, to many locals, he still falls

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00:21:26,205 --> 00:21:33,085
Speaker 1: into the latter category. Rebecca had a hard life. I

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00:21:33,125 --> 00:21:37,245
Speaker 1: attempted to get custody of Rebecca and her sisters and

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00:21:37,405 --> 00:21:41,245
Speaker 1: was pretty much raised by her mother in different areas

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Speaker 1: of Arkansas. They eventually settled in the Mountain View area,

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Speaker 1: and then as Rebecca grew a little bit older, I

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00:21:54,525 --> 00:21:58,685
Speaker 1: would have to say that my opinion of Rebecca began

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Speaker 1: to really develop further. I had a little bit more

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Speaker 1: time around her. I saw that she was beginning to

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00:22:07,365 --> 00:22:09,885
Speaker 1: turn her life around. But there was a lot of

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00:22:09,925 --> 00:22:14,285
Speaker 1: outside influences that were really pulling Rebecca in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: And nothing could have made me happier than to see that.

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00:22:21,005 --> 00:22:25,285
Speaker 1: So I come back to the one memory in particular

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Speaker 1: that it makes me cry. Excuse me. The last time

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00:22:36,485 --> 00:22:40,965
Speaker 1: that I saw her and I talked to her was

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00:22:41,085 --> 00:22:49,485
Speaker 1: probably every father's dream. She came to my home and

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Speaker 1: she said, Dad, I want to talk to you, and

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00:22:52,765 --> 00:22:55,445
Speaker 1: so we went out on our back porch and we

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00:22:55,525 --> 00:23:01,485
Speaker 1: had some privacy, and she proceeded to tell me that

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00:23:01,565 --> 00:23:08,085
Speaker 1: she was wanting to fulfill some dreams of hers in college,

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00:23:08,125 --> 00:23:11,005
Speaker 1: and so she was heading heading towards getting into the

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00:23:11,085 --> 00:23:20,205
Speaker 1: University of Arkansas. M m hm. So she was at

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00:23:20,205 --> 00:23:24,605
Speaker 1: that point in my life in our relationship, I'm doing

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00:23:24,645 --> 00:23:29,805
Speaker 1: absolutely everything right. She had dreams, she had hopes, she

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00:23:29,885 --> 00:23:32,765
Speaker 1: had ambition. But the one thing is she said to

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00:23:32,805 --> 00:23:42,485
Speaker 1: me that will m h m hm. Always be remembered.

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00:23:46,045 --> 00:23:49,205
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can get this advocate this out. No,

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00:23:49,805 --> 00:23:53,845
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll take it. But hm, as I said,

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00:23:53,845 --> 00:23:57,725
Speaker 1: it was really every father's dream here hear from your child.

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00:23:58,525 --> 00:24:05,045
Speaker 1: But she said said to me that, Dad, I've watched

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00:24:05,045 --> 00:24:09,405
Speaker 1: you in law life and you've always done well, and

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00:24:09,685 --> 00:24:19,885
Speaker 1: I want to I would it be like you so

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00:24:22,845 --> 00:24:28,525
Speaker 1: m so those that's my last memory of our time together.

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00:24:31,365 --> 00:24:34,885
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So with that said, obviously I knew I

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00:24:35,045 --> 00:24:37,485
Speaker 1: knew nothing about what was going to happen next. And

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00:24:37,685 --> 00:24:39,765
Speaker 1: for some reason, I'm thinking it was only a few

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00:24:39,805 --> 00:24:42,125
Speaker 1: weeks before this happened. After that, it could have been

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00:24:42,165 --> 00:24:45,645
Speaker 1: a month, could have been a couple of months. But

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00:24:46,605 --> 00:24:56,125
Speaker 1: when it happened, that that disbelief. I don't know. You're

355
00:24:56,365 --> 00:24:59,125
Speaker 1: you're you're in You're in a state of shock, and

356
00:25:00,205 --> 00:25:03,245
Speaker 1: you've never been through something like this before, and you

357
00:25:03,285 --> 00:25:05,605
Speaker 1: don't know the next step. So you obviously beg and

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00:25:05,605 --> 00:25:09,405
Speaker 1: to turn to law enforcement and people you trust to

359
00:25:11,125 --> 00:25:15,485
Speaker 1: answer your questions and to kind of help point you

360
00:25:15,525 --> 00:25:19,325
Speaker 1: in the right direction. In the years since Rebecca's murder,

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00:25:19,565 --> 00:25:23,045
Speaker 1: Larry has done his own investigation. He's written countless letters

362
00:25:23,085 --> 00:25:26,525
Speaker 1: to the police and to the prosecutors. He's hired pi's

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00:25:26,725 --> 00:25:29,685
Speaker 1: and gone to the press. At some point, he even

364
00:25:29,685 --> 00:25:34,765
Speaker 1: talked to a clairvoyant. At first, he was cooperative, patient,

365
00:25:35,445 --> 00:25:38,085
Speaker 1: He was a law abiding citizen who raised his kids

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00:25:38,085 --> 00:25:42,285
Speaker 1: to respect God, the American flag, and the police. But

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00:25:42,365 --> 00:25:46,405
Speaker 1: after several years passed with no arrests, Larry grew frustrated.

368
00:25:47,045 --> 00:25:49,805
Speaker 1: He felt like the police were stonewalling, and so he

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00:25:49,845 --> 00:25:52,405
Speaker 1: went to the media and he hasn't spoken to the

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Speaker 1: Arkansas State Police since. The investigators in charge of the

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00:25:56,845 --> 00:25:59,725
Speaker 1: case believe that by going to the press, Larry hurt

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Speaker 1: the investigation. If you ever murdered, it's unsolved. The longer

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00:26:04,885 --> 00:26:08,325
Speaker 1: you go, the harder it is to to come up

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00:26:08,365 --> 00:26:10,965
Speaker 1: with with the facts and to get any kind of

375
00:26:10,965 --> 00:26:15,765
Speaker 1: a conviction. So there needs to be some parameters built

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00:26:15,765 --> 00:26:19,365
Speaker 1: into the law enforcement to where any at a certain

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00:26:19,405 --> 00:26:22,245
Speaker 1: given point. And I'll just use as a reference five years,

378
00:26:22,605 --> 00:26:24,965
Speaker 1: say five years, you give law enforcement everything they can

379
00:26:25,045 --> 00:26:28,365
Speaker 1: possibly do. At the end of five years, the family,

380
00:26:28,565 --> 00:26:33,605
Speaker 1: as long as they're not considered to be a possible suspect,

381
00:26:34,605 --> 00:26:37,765
Speaker 1: they should have the right to come in and maybe

382
00:26:37,765 --> 00:26:39,765
Speaker 1: at that point not look at the file, but they

383
00:26:39,765 --> 00:26:41,965
Speaker 1: certainly have a right to look at certain things and

384
00:26:42,005 --> 00:26:45,805
Speaker 1: then to bring in qualified people representing them at some

385
00:26:45,925 --> 00:26:48,045
Speaker 1: point in time. You need have you need to be

386
00:26:48,045 --> 00:26:52,045
Speaker 1: able to access the entire file. It is a cold case.

387
00:26:52,405 --> 00:26:56,485
Speaker 1: They want to let me have her any of her forensics.

388
00:26:56,525 --> 00:26:59,685
Speaker 1: They wouldn't let me have any of her of the

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00:26:59,845 --> 00:27:05,725
Speaker 1: medical uh, the the anatomical findings cause well cause death.

390
00:27:05,925 --> 00:27:08,805
Speaker 1: It was on a death certificate. But you know sometimes

391
00:27:08,845 --> 00:27:12,365
Speaker 1: that gets put on a death certificate and that's an error,

392
00:27:13,445 --> 00:27:15,325
Speaker 1: and you just want other people to be able to

393
00:27:15,325 --> 00:27:28,645
Speaker 1: look at this. According to Rebecca's autopsy report, the cause

394
00:27:28,725 --> 00:27:32,645
Speaker 1: of death was blunt force trauma to the head, probably

395
00:27:32,725 --> 00:27:36,045
Speaker 1: with just one or two blows. Nobody's been able to

396
00:27:36,085 --> 00:27:38,485
Speaker 1: confirm this for me yet, but I've heard over the

397
00:27:38,565 --> 00:27:41,165
Speaker 1: years that the murder weapon may have been a piano

398
00:27:41,285 --> 00:27:45,165
Speaker 1: leg Was this, as some people have speculated, a pre

399
00:27:45,285 --> 00:27:48,765
Speaker 1: planned crime, or did her killer hit her as hard

400
00:27:48,765 --> 00:27:51,405
Speaker 1: as they could and then panic when she started bleeding.

401
00:27:53,405 --> 00:27:55,925
Speaker 1: By the time Rebecca's body was found, it had been

402
00:27:55,965 --> 00:27:59,405
Speaker 1: out in the elements for a week. Her body was

403
00:27:59,445 --> 00:28:03,645
Speaker 1: badly decomposed, which makes determining an exact time of death difficult,

404
00:28:04,285 --> 00:28:07,605
Speaker 1: and the media report state that Rebecca dropped Casey off

405
00:28:07,645 --> 00:28:10,965
Speaker 1: at work on Monday morning. There's another rumor going around

406
00:28:11,165 --> 00:28:14,525
Speaker 1: that she was actually killed over the weekend. Rebecca's car

407
00:28:14,565 --> 00:28:18,205
Speaker 1: had dark tinted windows. Is it possible that someone else

408
00:28:18,285 --> 00:28:23,925
Speaker 1: was driving her car that morning? To understand Rebecca's death,

409
00:28:24,325 --> 00:28:26,645
Speaker 1: we need to take the same ride she took on

410
00:28:26,685 --> 00:28:30,605
Speaker 1: the last day she was alive. We head to the

411
00:28:30,605 --> 00:28:34,245
Speaker 1: Possum Trot, the local gas station. Back in the day,

412
00:28:34,405 --> 00:28:38,725
Speaker 1: Rebecca was a regular. These days, it's pretty deserted. It

413
00:28:38,845 --> 00:28:45,605
Speaker 1: is super hot out there. Yeah, it feels like asana.

414
00:28:46,205 --> 00:28:49,725
Speaker 1: I headed behind the counter. There's a black and white

415
00:28:49,725 --> 00:28:53,405
Speaker 1: TV playing an old western and watching it and me

416
00:28:53,965 --> 00:28:56,805
Speaker 1: is an old man, the cashier, so he knows who

417
00:28:56,805 --> 00:28:58,965
Speaker 1: I am and talks to me about the case. Oh,

418
00:28:59,005 --> 00:29:00,805
Speaker 1: that's a when you were in here? Last time I

419
00:29:00,845 --> 00:29:03,325
Speaker 1: was in here, I can't remember. I've been working on

420
00:29:03,365 --> 00:29:06,765
Speaker 1: this Rebecca Gold cold case, so I've come by a

421
00:29:06,805 --> 00:29:12,645
Speaker 1: few times before. How are you dealing with that? You know,

422
00:29:13,165 --> 00:29:15,365
Speaker 1: we've actually made a lot of progress. We got a

423
00:29:15,365 --> 00:29:24,845
Speaker 1: bunch of kIPS and I'm going pretty well. H thank you. Yeah,

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00:29:25,405 --> 00:29:28,525
Speaker 1: I know wish I better conditioning. I know, I wish

425
00:29:28,565 --> 00:29:57,125
Speaker 1: my car had air conditioning m. Hello. Hi, my name

426
00:29:57,165 --> 00:29:59,525
Speaker 1: is James Morrison, and I'm trying to get in touch

427
00:29:59,565 --> 00:30:06,605
Speaker 1: with Steve Wortham Taylor and James on their reporter hats

428
00:30:06,725 --> 00:30:10,285
Speaker 1: and try to find the last person to see Rebecca alive. Yeah,

429
00:30:11,045 --> 00:30:15,085
Speaker 1: I want to convenue stories and stopped. Got the breakfast

430
00:30:15,565 --> 00:30:19,205
Speaker 1: biscuit in that morning. Jessica, work on this one and

431
00:30:19,325 --> 00:30:23,445
Speaker 1: team Conservative. I see, And is that a relation? Is

432
00:30:23,525 --> 00:30:28,205
Speaker 1: that your daughter no belief? Were you involved in the

433
00:30:28,245 --> 00:30:31,245
Speaker 1: search or anything? And why I talked to her mother

434
00:30:31,245 --> 00:30:33,805
Speaker 1: a lot of times, her mother come back several times

435
00:30:33,925 --> 00:30:37,925
Speaker 1: long thoughfully knew where she might be or something, But yeah,

436
00:30:38,845 --> 00:30:43,005
Speaker 1: I didn't. Well, they got to know who did it

437
00:30:43,365 --> 00:30:48,525
Speaker 1: because it's been a too much hush. Yeah, you're talking

438
00:30:48,525 --> 00:30:51,045
Speaker 1: about the police have to know who did it. Yeah,

439
00:30:51,525 --> 00:30:55,645
Speaker 1: it was a bad deal I made, Yeah, because I

440
00:30:55,765 --> 00:30:57,445
Speaker 1: need told me it was a bad deal inside the

441
00:30:57,525 --> 00:31:03,205
Speaker 1: trailer chasing and you know bleating, you know everywhere ill people.

442
00:31:03,245 --> 00:31:05,325
Speaker 1: If you did meet gomagain or go mad, I'll meet

443
00:31:05,365 --> 00:31:10,165
Speaker 1: you when you come out. Let's see if we can

444
00:31:10,205 --> 00:31:21,125
Speaker 1: find his niece. Hi, my name is James Morrison and

445
00:31:21,285 --> 00:31:27,965
Speaker 1: trying to get in touch with Jessica Shrabel Ah she here,

446
00:31:28,165 --> 00:31:32,645
Speaker 1: she ad another location. I don't know how you would

447
00:31:34,125 --> 00:31:36,525
Speaker 1: her phone number. Yeah, I'm Sorr. I was just talking

448
00:31:36,605 --> 00:31:40,685
Speaker 1: with her uncle Steve. Yeah, and he'd given me this number.

449
00:31:40,725 --> 00:31:46,485
Speaker 1: He must have given me the wrong one. Yeah, I

450
00:31:46,565 --> 00:31:48,645
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know how you get a hold

451
00:31:48,685 --> 00:31:51,405
Speaker 1: of Roald on her phone memory? All right, Well, thank you.

452
00:31:52,965 --> 00:31:55,525
Speaker 1: I found her by looking at Shrabel as a friend

453
00:31:55,645 --> 00:32:00,805
Speaker 1: of Casey's, and then her sister. Oh, I clicked on

454
00:32:00,885 --> 00:32:06,285
Speaker 1: her in the mountain and Jessica strable, but also oh

455
00:32:06,325 --> 00:32:08,205
Speaker 1: and then also where she worked. I can give them

456
00:32:08,245 --> 00:32:18,485
Speaker 1: a call. I hate to bother you at work. This

457
00:32:18,645 --> 00:32:20,165
Speaker 1: is the only number that I had. I had just

458
00:32:20,205 --> 00:32:24,205
Speaker 1: spoken to your uncle Steve, and he told me that

459
00:32:24,245 --> 00:32:26,365
Speaker 1: I should talk to you, and I was wondering, you know,

460
00:32:26,565 --> 00:32:28,165
Speaker 1: if there may be a better time to call you,

461
00:32:28,365 --> 00:32:31,485
Speaker 1: if you would be interested in talking with me. Yeah,

462
00:32:31,605 --> 00:32:35,765
Speaker 1: that's fine. This is Jessica s Trabel. She was working

463
00:32:35,805 --> 00:32:37,885
Speaker 1: as a cashier at the Possum Trot on the morning

464
00:32:37,925 --> 00:32:42,485
Speaker 1: that Rebecca went missing. Really the last person to see

465
00:32:42,525 --> 00:32:45,645
Speaker 1: her alive. I hardly ever worked on Monday and Men day.

466
00:32:45,645 --> 00:32:47,565
Speaker 1: I was working on Monday. You don't remember something till

467
00:32:47,685 --> 00:32:51,565
Speaker 1: you know something significant. Happens, and then you're like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

468
00:32:51,805 --> 00:32:55,925
Speaker 1: So Harry and Casey came in several several times, you know,

469
00:32:55,965 --> 00:32:57,685
Speaker 1: and I remember kevichin, I'll be in a big day,

470
00:32:57,805 --> 00:33:00,325
Speaker 1: and so that's what she positive. That's what she called

471
00:33:00,365 --> 00:33:02,445
Speaker 1: that day. Do you remember if she bought a bread

472
00:33:02,485 --> 00:33:04,485
Speaker 1: of the sandwich? Yeah? Yeah, that was like the kep

473
00:33:04,565 --> 00:33:07,085
Speaker 1: chine on the breakfast sandwich, is what you know? Can

474
00:33:07,125 --> 00:33:11,205
Speaker 1: you just talks about morn? Sure? Okay. So I was

475
00:33:11,285 --> 00:33:14,445
Speaker 1: at work and paused and tried at the quick stop

476
00:33:14,525 --> 00:33:16,805
Speaker 1: and she actually came in. I cannot remember what time

477
00:33:16,845 --> 00:33:19,285
Speaker 1: it was, and I'm gonna say, like it wasn't busy,

478
00:33:19,405 --> 00:33:23,325
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna say probably after people had went to

479
00:33:23,365 --> 00:33:26,925
Speaker 1: work eight thirty to ten o'clock that morning and came in.

480
00:33:28,405 --> 00:33:29,885
Speaker 1: She was someone that like if I seen her, you know,

481
00:33:29,965 --> 00:33:32,685
Speaker 1: we're like, oh, that's you know, Casey's friend or whatever.

482
00:33:33,565 --> 00:33:38,285
Speaker 1: So anyway, so then like when she left, I walked

483
00:33:38,285 --> 00:33:41,445
Speaker 1: outside behind her, bought a newspaper, picked up the newspaper

484
00:33:41,485 --> 00:33:42,845
Speaker 1: and was kind of you know, like when you pick

485
00:33:42,885 --> 00:33:45,285
Speaker 1: up something, you stop and you look. And she got

486
00:33:45,325 --> 00:33:47,365
Speaker 1: in her car and she left, and I remember looking

487
00:33:47,405 --> 00:33:50,845
Speaker 1: at her car and she was going like towards I say, home,

488
00:33:50,965 --> 00:33:55,205
Speaker 1: guy rode you know, right out of there. And so

489
00:33:55,405 --> 00:33:58,205
Speaker 1: then that's that's really the only thing I knew until

490
00:33:58,525 --> 00:34:01,725
Speaker 1: probably Wednesday Thursday, when her mom came in and said,

491
00:34:01,925 --> 00:34:04,365
Speaker 1: you know, mama was very friendic, which she gave me.

492
00:34:04,445 --> 00:34:05,765
Speaker 1: She had like a big poster and she was like

493
00:34:06,285 --> 00:34:07,965
Speaker 1: this like screaming when she came in. She was like,

494
00:34:08,085 --> 00:34:11,485
Speaker 1: is anybody seeing her? And so I was like, oh, probably,

495
00:34:11,685 --> 00:34:13,165
Speaker 1: you know, she was in here, my name moved in

496
00:34:13,325 --> 00:34:16,285
Speaker 1: and that's it. And she just like like kind of

497
00:34:16,365 --> 00:34:18,885
Speaker 1: like you know, like starts yelling at me like you've

498
00:34:18,925 --> 00:34:20,725
Speaker 1: got to call the police. You've got to call the police.

499
00:34:20,725 --> 00:34:23,125
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you know, that would kind of like

500
00:34:23,205 --> 00:34:24,885
Speaker 1: scare anybody. So it kind of like freaked me out.

501
00:34:24,925 --> 00:34:27,285
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I mean, I said, I don't

502
00:34:27,365 --> 00:34:29,845
Speaker 1: I don't know anything. I said. I just remember I

503
00:34:29,885 --> 00:34:31,605
Speaker 1: said she was in here, and she's like, no, you've

504
00:34:31,605 --> 00:34:34,245
Speaker 1: got a call. I think maybe I gave her my

505
00:34:34,405 --> 00:34:36,405
Speaker 1: number or and then said you know, you can, somebody

506
00:34:36,485 --> 00:34:38,205
Speaker 1: can call me if they need to or something like that.

507
00:34:39,045 --> 00:34:41,325
Speaker 1: And then like probably two or three days later, then

508
00:34:41,365 --> 00:34:44,365
Speaker 1: that's when I was contacted by I think that the

509
00:34:44,485 --> 00:34:47,605
Speaker 1: Marky Mark colleens Worth. When I was talking to him,

510
00:34:47,605 --> 00:34:49,165
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize, you know, I was like, oh,

511
00:34:49,285 --> 00:34:51,405
Speaker 1: she's missing, you know, she's spread away something like that.

512
00:34:52,285 --> 00:34:56,045
Speaker 1: At some point he said something during our conversation and

513
00:34:56,165 --> 00:34:58,565
Speaker 1: I said, you know, do you do you think she's dead?

514
00:34:58,725 --> 00:35:01,365
Speaker 1: And he's like, it looks that way, and I was like,

515
00:35:02,685 --> 00:35:04,445
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, you know, like I didn't, you know,

516
00:35:04,645 --> 00:35:07,045
Speaker 1: until that point I realize that it was like anything

517
00:35:07,205 --> 00:35:09,045
Speaker 1: like that. You know, I just thought though she's missing

518
00:35:09,245 --> 00:35:11,405
Speaker 1: or really worried about her, you know, but of course

519
00:35:11,525 --> 00:35:13,645
Speaker 1: that the details had came out at that point, you know,

520
00:35:14,725 --> 00:35:17,205
Speaker 1: and Inzard County, you don't think anything like that. I mean,

521
00:35:17,245 --> 00:35:19,365
Speaker 1: that's like the farthest thing that you would ever think is,

522
00:35:19,685 --> 00:35:22,565
Speaker 1: you know, had happened to her after Rebecca left the

523
00:35:22,605 --> 00:35:25,285
Speaker 1: Possum Trot, she would have turned right down the road

524
00:35:25,285 --> 00:35:28,085
Speaker 1: toward Casey's house. And Guy on, so we do the

525
00:35:28,125 --> 00:35:31,965
Speaker 1: same thing. We drive out to Casey's house. Of course

526
00:35:32,085 --> 00:35:34,805
Speaker 1: it doesn't show up on a map or on GPS. Yeah,

527
00:35:34,845 --> 00:35:38,165
Speaker 1: we'll look at that. Okay, So guy in population eighty six, right,

528
00:35:39,725 --> 00:35:43,085
Speaker 1: I mean this is Milla nowhere, Like, oh yeah, this

529
00:35:43,285 --> 00:35:49,005
Speaker 1: is way more remote than Mount View. Let's see what's hope.

530
00:35:49,085 --> 00:35:52,925
Speaker 1: So that's it. This is where Rebecca stayed the last

531
00:35:52,965 --> 00:35:56,285
Speaker 1: weekend of her life. We finally find it. It's a

532
00:35:56,365 --> 00:35:59,205
Speaker 1: blue gray double wide trailer in the middle of nowhere,

533
00:35:59,365 --> 00:36:02,685
Speaker 1: at the end of a dirt road. Whatever bad thing

534
00:36:02,805 --> 00:36:07,485
Speaker 1: happened to Rebecca get started here, she probably crawled into bed,

535
00:36:08,085 --> 00:36:10,165
Speaker 1: maybe hoping to catch a few minutes of her favorite

536
00:36:10,245 --> 00:36:13,405
Speaker 1: nine AM show, Live with Regis and Kathy, or maybe

537
00:36:13,445 --> 00:36:16,925
Speaker 1: to take a quick nap before meeting her sister. This

538
00:36:16,965 --> 00:36:19,965
Speaker 1: is the other view about this area that's weird is that,

539
00:36:20,445 --> 00:36:23,605
Speaker 1: like you're back in the woods, right there's like literally

540
00:36:24,485 --> 00:36:27,725
Speaker 1: so many little like rat trails and weird little rat

541
00:36:27,805 --> 00:36:32,805
Speaker 1: runs and backways and you know, male out of here.

542
00:36:37,765 --> 00:36:51,725
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Let's start with the obvious true crime.

543
00:36:51,805 --> 00:36:55,125
Speaker 1: Fans know the police usually look hard at the boyfriend,

544
00:36:55,765 --> 00:36:58,885
Speaker 1: but Casey was publicly cleared very early in the investigation.

545
00:37:00,245 --> 00:37:03,045
Speaker 1: According to the Arkansas State Police, he was at work

546
00:37:03,125 --> 00:37:06,085
Speaker 1: all day on Monday and out that night with multiple witnesses.

547
00:37:06,925 --> 00:37:09,365
Speaker 1: Since he thought Rebecca had left for school. He stayed

548
00:37:09,405 --> 00:37:11,485
Speaker 1: overnight with a group of friends and did not return

549
00:37:11,565 --> 00:37:13,485
Speaker 1: to the house. Until the police called him at work

550
00:37:13,525 --> 00:37:17,885
Speaker 1: on Tuesday. Casey had an airtight alibi, So who else

551
00:37:17,925 --> 00:37:19,485
Speaker 1: could have known that Rebecca would be out here in

552
00:37:19,485 --> 00:37:22,925
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere alone. Another thing that bugs me

553
00:37:22,965 --> 00:37:25,525
Speaker 1: about this case is that Monday morning is a weird

554
00:37:25,605 --> 00:37:29,325
Speaker 1: time for a murder. I've tried reaching out to the

555
00:37:29,365 --> 00:37:32,605
Speaker 1: police before, but I've had very little luck. But now

556
00:37:32,645 --> 00:37:35,325
Speaker 1: that we're here doing the podcast, I want to let

557
00:37:35,405 --> 00:37:37,965
Speaker 1: law enforcement know that we're here to help and we'll

558
00:37:38,005 --> 00:37:40,965
Speaker 1: share any information that we're given. Wait, so who is

559
00:37:40,965 --> 00:37:42,965
Speaker 1: the lead investigator on the case. There was Mark and

560
00:37:43,005 --> 00:37:46,085
Speaker 1: then Dennis. So Dennis is in charge of the investigation.

561
00:37:46,965 --> 00:37:49,405
Speaker 1: Mark is the head of the Arkansas State Police Division,

562
00:37:49,485 --> 00:37:51,365
Speaker 1: so he has to give permission for any you know,

563
00:37:51,565 --> 00:37:54,245
Speaker 1: official interviews or anything like that. And I talked to

564
00:37:54,365 --> 00:37:56,525
Speaker 1: Mark before. Mark was the original detective on the case.

565
00:37:56,805 --> 00:37:58,445
Speaker 1: Mark is the one who told me a few years

566
00:37:58,445 --> 00:38:00,605
Speaker 1: ago when I've talked first talked to him and ambushed

567
00:38:00,645 --> 00:38:03,965
Speaker 1: him in his office like that. He thought that we

568
00:38:04,045 --> 00:38:05,805
Speaker 1: were going to have to He thought there were have

569
00:38:05,845 --> 00:38:08,405
Speaker 1: to think outside the box, you know, get some outside

570
00:38:08,405 --> 00:38:11,245
Speaker 1: help on the case. Benett got assigned to Dennis because

571
00:38:11,285 --> 00:38:13,325
Speaker 1: Mark got a promotion right, so he's like in charge

572
00:38:13,325 --> 00:38:16,205
Speaker 1: of the whole thing. Rebecca's case involved law enforcement from

573
00:38:16,245 --> 00:38:19,885
Speaker 1: several different jurisdictions. The Izard County Sheriff's Department responded to

574
00:38:19,925 --> 00:38:23,085
Speaker 1: the initial crime scene, but the sheriff very quickly handed

575
00:38:23,125 --> 00:38:25,805
Speaker 1: the case over to the Arkansas State Police. A few

576
00:38:25,845 --> 00:38:28,125
Speaker 1: months later, the case was given to Dennis Simons of

577
00:38:28,165 --> 00:38:31,485
Speaker 1: the Arkansas State Police. It's been Dennis's case ever since.

578
00:38:32,445 --> 00:38:34,525
Speaker 1: His satellite office is a room at the back of

579
00:38:34,565 --> 00:38:37,405
Speaker 1: the Stone County Sheriff's Department A few walks past the

580
00:38:37,485 --> 00:38:40,405
Speaker 1: town square. I leave James and Taylor in the car

581
00:38:40,685 --> 00:38:43,405
Speaker 1: and head in alone. I hope Catherine gets some good

582
00:38:43,485 --> 00:38:47,445
Speaker 1: stuff from Dennis Simons and make it on his good

583
00:38:47,525 --> 00:38:49,885
Speaker 1: side for sure. Yeah, because if he can help us out,

584
00:38:50,005 --> 00:38:52,765
Speaker 1: then we can help him out. I mean, we have

585
00:38:52,885 --> 00:38:55,485
Speaker 1: the same goals, so it seems like we would be

586
00:38:55,485 --> 00:38:58,885
Speaker 1: advantageous for him to help us out. Yeah. No, because

587
00:38:58,885 --> 00:39:00,005
Speaker 1: I think now it's just going to be playing the

588
00:39:00,005 --> 00:39:01,765
Speaker 1: waiting game for a while. But I mean, I guess

589
00:39:01,845 --> 00:39:05,085
Speaker 1: the longer we wait, the better. Yeah, exactly, because that

590
00:39:05,125 --> 00:39:08,445
Speaker 1: means he's talking to her and hasn't say in the

591
00:39:08,485 --> 00:39:11,645
Speaker 1: Dorner face. I'm pretty nervous going in to meet Dennis

592
00:39:11,885 --> 00:39:14,605
Speaker 1: because I've heard that he's a former military drill sergeant

593
00:39:14,685 --> 00:39:17,685
Speaker 1: who does things by the book. Normally, you'd wait to

594
00:39:17,765 --> 00:39:21,165
Speaker 1: be called into an officer's office, but since there's no receptionist,

595
00:39:21,565 --> 00:39:25,125
Speaker 1: I decide to take a shot. I summon every ounce

596
00:39:25,205 --> 00:39:28,245
Speaker 1: of what I hope looks like sweet southern charm, walk

597
00:39:28,365 --> 00:39:31,845
Speaker 1: straight in and sit down. Oh the shit is coming

598
00:39:31,925 --> 00:39:34,085
Speaker 1: out Uh her face. Oh she's smiling. It looks like

599
00:39:34,405 --> 00:39:39,605
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's hard to tell. Let's see what

600
00:39:39,765 --> 00:39:45,405
Speaker 1: she says. So that's about twenty minutes. Actually, all right.

601
00:39:45,525 --> 00:39:47,765
Speaker 1: So he's clearly very he's got you know, I could

602
00:39:47,805 --> 00:39:50,325
Speaker 1: see the case files with recaus picture on him taking

603
00:39:50,405 --> 00:39:52,685
Speaker 1: up several shelves up there in his office. He's clearly

604
00:39:52,805 --> 00:39:54,925
Speaker 1: very passionate about the case. He really wants to solve it.

605
00:39:55,285 --> 00:39:57,005
Speaker 1: But he's also like, look like I've got a couple

606
00:39:57,085 --> 00:39:58,805
Speaker 1: years to retirement, Like I want to make it there.

607
00:39:58,845 --> 00:40:02,005
Speaker 1: I'd love to prosecute this case before retirement. But you know,

608
00:40:02,165 --> 00:40:04,205
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to talk about this case. So he said,

609
00:40:04,245 --> 00:40:06,325
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of heartbreaking the case. There's been

610
00:40:06,365 --> 00:40:09,725
Speaker 1: a lot of missed opportunities, there's been, you know, a

611
00:40:09,845 --> 00:40:12,685
Speaker 1: lot of He's just said, it's been a lot of twist.

612
00:40:12,725 --> 00:40:14,445
Speaker 1: He used the exact phrase. He said, there's been a

613
00:40:14,485 --> 00:40:16,005
Speaker 1: lot of twists and turns in this case. That it

614
00:40:16,085 --> 00:40:19,285
Speaker 1: made it difficult. He said, what he needs now is

615
00:40:19,485 --> 00:40:22,165
Speaker 1: something from the crime scene. One of them is the

616
00:40:22,245 --> 00:40:24,205
Speaker 1: murder weapon. He confirmed that, but he said that's already

617
00:40:24,205 --> 00:40:26,005
Speaker 1: been out in the media. He said he does not

618
00:40:26,085 --> 00:40:28,565
Speaker 1: want to say what the other items are because he's like,

619
00:40:28,645 --> 00:40:32,285
Speaker 1: I'll get fired. Did he say anything about Casey? I

620
00:40:32,405 --> 00:40:35,325
Speaker 1: asked him about that, and he said he's absolutely certain

621
00:40:35,445 --> 00:40:38,685
Speaker 1: that Casey was at work at the time. Oh. He

622
00:40:38,765 --> 00:40:40,205
Speaker 1: also said that there have been a lot of people

623
00:40:40,205 --> 00:40:42,645
Speaker 1: who have come in and given statements, but he said

624
00:40:42,645 --> 00:40:46,765
Speaker 1: they're all like meth heads, druggies, unreliable witnesses, you know.

625
00:40:46,885 --> 00:40:48,165
Speaker 1: He said, it's going to be a very hard case

626
00:40:48,245 --> 00:40:50,925
Speaker 1: to prosecute based on what those people said. But I

627
00:40:51,005 --> 00:40:53,045
Speaker 1: don't look is he right? I don't know? But is

628
00:40:53,085 --> 00:40:55,325
Speaker 1: that is that it's very helpful to know that that

629
00:40:55,445 --> 00:41:10,205
Speaker 1: is what the cops think. I've heard from multiple sources

630
00:41:10,285 --> 00:41:13,445
Speaker 1: throughout the years that one police theory is that drugs

631
00:41:13,485 --> 00:41:16,565
Speaker 1: may have been involved in Rebecca's murder, and two names

632
00:41:16,685 --> 00:41:19,285
Speaker 1: keep getting mentioned as persons of interest with those theories.

633
00:41:20,245 --> 00:41:22,685
Speaker 1: There's Chris, who has a criminal record and has been

634
00:41:22,765 --> 00:41:25,245
Speaker 1: in and out of prison on drug charges, and his

635
00:41:25,365 --> 00:41:30,885
Speaker 1: friend JB. Taylor. James and I go back to the

636
00:41:30,965 --> 00:41:33,205
Speaker 1: murder board, looking at the web of facts we need

637
00:41:33,285 --> 00:41:35,405
Speaker 1: to untangle to get to the truth. So what is

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00:41:35,525 --> 00:41:37,445
Speaker 1: like because it sounds like you have like a like

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Speaker 1: a process that you go through or like a method like,

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00:41:40,085 --> 00:41:41,845
Speaker 1: so what is going to be like your approach to

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00:41:42,045 --> 00:41:45,325
Speaker 1: We look at the pictures of Chris and JB. I

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00:41:45,405 --> 00:41:48,165
Speaker 1: know these guys have been arrested a lot for drugs,

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00:41:48,525 --> 00:41:51,445
Speaker 1: but that doesn't necessarily mean that they'd commit murder. You

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00:41:51,525 --> 00:41:53,605
Speaker 1: have to tell everyone, like in a sense, what they

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00:41:53,685 --> 00:41:56,645
Speaker 1: want to hear. For example, since the police won't share

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00:41:56,685 --> 00:41:59,165
Speaker 1: their evidence with us, we've got a long road ahead

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00:41:59,365 --> 00:42:02,205
Speaker 1: as we try to solve this case. But I also

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00:42:02,365 --> 00:42:04,845
Speaker 1: know that because we're not the police, we have a

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00:42:04,925 --> 00:42:08,285
Speaker 1: shot having someone talk to us that hasn't before, or

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00:42:08,445 --> 00:42:11,125
Speaker 1: finding something new that will break the case wide open.

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00:42:12,325 --> 00:42:15,685
Speaker 1: Someone in this town knows something, and I'm not leaving

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00:42:15,845 --> 00:42:18,685
Speaker 1: until we find out who killed Rebecca. Goal I think

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00:42:18,725 --> 00:42:21,325
Speaker 1: to be really good at this job. You have to

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00:42:21,405 --> 00:42:23,125
Speaker 1: be able to stand back and look at it like

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00:42:23,165 --> 00:42:25,925
Speaker 1: a chess game, otherwise you're not going to be any

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00:42:25,925 --> 00:42:27,485
Speaker 1: good at the job. See, you have to kind of

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00:42:27,525 --> 00:42:30,485
Speaker 1: go okay. Like Rebecca's family, they love her and obviously

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00:42:30,685 --> 00:42:32,445
Speaker 1: that's your priority and you want to help them. But

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00:42:32,525 --> 00:42:34,805
Speaker 1: if you get too emotionally involved and you're not doing

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00:42:34,885 --> 00:42:39,405
Speaker 1: your job properly. Right, think about the torture that Rebecca's

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00:42:39,405 --> 00:42:42,205
Speaker 1: family has gone through all these years, the torture of

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00:42:42,365 --> 00:42:45,365
Speaker 1: like knowing they live in the same town, knowing what

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00:42:45,645 --> 00:42:48,885
Speaker 1: kind of know what happened. Not really. The weird thing

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Speaker 1: to me is that life went on for all these people,

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00:42:51,365 --> 00:42:54,605
Speaker 1: so you know, but they're still living with it, and

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00:42:54,685 --> 00:42:57,125
Speaker 1: you can like feel it because people still talk about

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00:42:57,125 --> 00:42:58,885
Speaker 1: it in the town all the time. It's a tough case.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why I think we can do it,

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Speaker 1: but I kind of think we can. I'm Katherine Townsend

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00:43:07,525 --> 00:43:28,685
Speaker 1: and this is Helen Gone. Helen Gone is a joint

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00:43:28,725 --> 00:43:32,445
Speaker 1: production between How Stuff Works and School of Humans. It

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00:43:32,565 --> 00:43:36,285
Speaker 1: is written and recorded by me Catherine Townsend. Taylor Church

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00:43:36,445 --> 00:43:39,965
Speaker 1: is our producer and story editor. Audio editing and designed

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00:43:40,045 --> 00:43:44,845
Speaker 1: by Jonathan Sleeve. Mix engineer Glenn Mattulo audio Mixing and

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00:43:44,965 --> 00:43:49,685
Speaker 1: Love by Tunewelders. Executive producers Brandon Barr and Else Crowley

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00:43:49,765 --> 00:43:52,885
Speaker 1: for School of Humans and Conell Byrne and Chuck Bryant

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00:43:52,965 --> 00:43:56,805
Speaker 1: for How Stuff Works. Our field producer is James Morrison,

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00:43:57,325 --> 00:44:01,765
Speaker 1: Our researcher is Sandy Klosterman. Them and original score by

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00:44:01,805 --> 00:44:07,845
Speaker 1: Ben Solee available wherever you get your music. To dig

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00:44:07,925 --> 00:44:12,805
Speaker 1: into the investigation, please visit helegoonepodcast dot com or follow

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00:44:12,885 --> 00:44:25,285
Speaker 1: us on social media. School of Humans